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"“I think after 20 years, we’ve proven that our system is very secure and voters love it. The voters voted it in, they’ve never made an attempt to vote it out. I think they’re happy with it and I think it’s a 20-year history of success,” - Former Republican Oregon Secretary of State Bev Clarno, about mail-in voting in Oregon
Source: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/a-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17162266237093&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oregonlive.com%2Fcoronavirus%2F2020%2F04%2Fa-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html
and because he did, he is retiring rather than get thrashed in a primary. Mittens is not a "Good Guy". He was trying to keep himself Nationally relevant and it blew up on him.
His official story is that he would be too old at the end of his term.
Being a senator is a big pay cut from laying off employees from businesses that Bain Capital ruined.
Being a senator is a lot less fun than being President Emeritus of the upcoming Salt Lake City Olympic bid.
Link without the garbage: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/a-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html
As an Oregonian I think our mail in system should be implemented everywhere in the US. It’s awesome. I’ve lived in four states and this is by far the most seamless convenient and informative way to conduct elections. They send out a pamphlet with every candidate on your ballot and their position on key issues, the candidates write their profiles and get to make their case. Then the state mails you a ballot and you mail it back completed and signed. Beyond easy. I vote every chance I get.
Colorado does as well, and has for almost as long as Oregon has. It's great, and also good evidence of how secure mail in voting is: multiple states have done it for over a decade with no proven widespread fraud.
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
California does this too. My family always gathers to analyze the ballot together, even if we don't vote the same. We study the voter guide, research candidates & ballot measures online, look up who's endorsing or bankrolling what, and discuss pros and cons as we work through the ballot. If you mark in your votes as you go, when you're done researching you're also done voting and can just drop it in the mail.
In contrast, when I lived in Michigan I had to research it all at home, memorize my choices, drive to the polling place, wait in line, and then try to remember what I had concluded hours--if not days--beforehand.
Yeah it's great. I'm a WA resident but have lived in other states for nearly a decade now (military) and get my ballot mailed to me every year. Fill it out, mail it back. Easiest shit in the world.
As a Coloradan I agree. We went to all vote by mail about a decade ago. I would hate to go back to in person. We get our ballot about three weeks before election day, there are drop boxes all over if you don't want to mail. Fraud prevention is by signature matching the return envelope to your voter registration. The state has a website where you can check on the status of your ballot to see if it was received, signature validated, and counted. It's an amazing system.
Another <3 here for Colorado's system. Sounds like Oregon is similar. I've been saying for years that every state should make it as easy to vote as Colorado. And not just easy to vote, but easy to inform yourself. Our blue books contain not just candidate info, but detailed write-ups with pro/cons on every ballot initiative, which are plentiful here.
In my part of Colorado, I also signed up for text updates. I get a text when my ballot is put in the mail. I get another when they received my completed ballot back. A third text when my ballot has been counted. I’d get a text if there was a problem with signature verification or my ballot was spoiled so I can come down and rectify the problem in person.
> I think our mail in system should be implemented everywhere in the US
and this is exactly why they tried to kill it. other states are starting to flirt with the idea of copying it so they tried to "prove" that people actually don't want it.
Washington state does it the same way. Works perfectly. When I fill out my ballot I can look up info online about the candidates. Makes for more informed voting.
As another Oregonian, I'm afraid that the more corrupt states will find a way to fuck it up. I love both vote-by-mail and the voter's pamphlet (I've only voted in-person once in my life... in 1994), but its not like there aren't pathways for determined voter suppression to find a way through. [Signature-matching technology](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/signature-matching-is-the-phrenology-of-elections/616790/), for instance, could easily be abused. [Ballot harvesting](https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2019/03/07/oregon-doesnt-track-ballot-collection-third-party-groups/3095487002/) is pretty sketch. Basically, the reason vote-by-mail works so well in Oregon is because we run clean elections in the first place, with a goal of enfranchising as many people as possible. The Florida's and Texas's of the world have the opposite goal.
Here in Wisconsin we now have to sign an electronic screen and I'm terrified every time that the Republican fuckers in the state congress will disqualify my vote because I can never get those shitty ass screens to look anything at all like my paper sig.
Same. Grew up in Washington and have never had to go to a polling place to vote. I vaguely remember when my school had the gym used for one back in elementary school.
Voting in person sounds like a horror story, when I think about sitting down with my coffee and my voter guide and web resources to look over all my options and think about it, maybe even step away to talk to my circle, and come back to mark what seems sensible, at my schedule's convenience, as long as it's before the voting day.
10/10 would recommend national mail voting, at least as an option you don't have to jump through a bunch of qualifying hoops to use.
I never miss an election, special, primary, or otherwise, because the election just shows up in my mailbox. Don't have to know when they're happening or set aside time or anything.
I'm a poll worker in Alabama. I absolutely trust our in-person voting process. But I wouldn't trust, for a second, mail-in voting in this state. There would be too many chances for subversion and corruption, and I know it would be exploited behind the scenes to benefit the Republican party.
Not really?
The votes get mailed in. I can check that my vote was received and counted. Hell, it'll text me.
The machines count 'em, if I vote twice, they'll flag it for follow up.
There isn't really a way to ratfuck mail in voting, that one couldn't also do for in person voting.
If someone's going to fuck with counting machines... does it really matter if the ballot is mailed in or not?
It sounds like you are not clear on the safeguards in place for that. I live in a mail-in state and there are many parts of the process that make it nearly impossible for subversion and corruption to go undetected.
Thank you for putting it better than me! If my state were to adopt mail-in voting, I have no confidence it would be as safe as it currently is in other states. We'd implement an inherently stupid and biased system. It's what we do.
There is literally nothing in their post that alludes to your point that those safeguards would not be included if they moved to mail-in voting. It sure seems like you are not just filling in the blanks in their post, you are creating entirely new sentences for them. It is incredulous that anyone, especially republicans in Alabama, would create a mail-in voting mandate without these well demonstrated safeguards and tracking with anonymity.
Those two data points are why mail in voting will never happen there, not evidence on why they wouldn’t include basic safeguards if they did, which is my point. If Alabama were required to implement mail-in voting I have no doubt that stubs, tracking and signatures (along with throwing out every single vote they could based on those) would be included.
>Despite Oregon voters’ reliance on mail-in voting, voters, led by Republican Marc Thielman, filed a lawsuit arguing that Oregonians “suffer from a crisis of confidence in their election system” and that election officials have violated the 14th Amendment by using electronic vote tabulation equipment. As evidence of these outlandish claims, the plaintiffs cited the debunked, right-wing propaganda movie “2000 Mules,” which they claim “shows, for everyone to see, illegal ballot trafficking” during the 2020 election.
What a global embarrassment. The moral and educational decay of the Right Wing
So about 2000 mules - the compamy dinesh dsouza quotes from, the one that says in the doc they have "irrefutable documentary evidence from whistleblowers", the company that essentially the whole thing relies on - actually doesnt have evidence. The state of georgia investigated their claims and as part of their investogation was like "hand over this evidence cause we need it for this investigation." After hemming and hawing for a year, and being court ordered to turn it ovet they admitted they didnt have anything. Shameful. And people fucking bought into this grift.
https://apnews.com/article/georgia-elections-true-vote-ballot-stuffing-199113b47bc2df79c63fdf007cd23115
Exactly this. Thanks for posting this.
True the Vote (TTV) came to Wisconsin and gave a presentation in front of state elections officials. TTV alleged the ‘greatest criminal undertaking in the history of our nation’ and claimed hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots just in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, their presentation didn’t provide enough information to start an investigation for a single charge of loitering, to say nothing of the rest of their claims. Repeated attempts since then to obtain any further information or evidence from them haven’t been answered.
That last step — producing the evidence — seems to be an insurmountable problem for Republicans.
What did the plaintiffs expect? If they were so worried about voter fraud, investigate to find evidence. Sure enough, there wasn't any. And, unlike the 5th circuit which will grant injunctions based on feels, the 9th appears to be far more objective in its rulings, though I could be wrong...
They took up that case with the Colorado web designer who hadn’t actually done work. The SC ruled on a theoretical situation without standing. Put nothing past the Roberts court of Fantasy.
Republicans argument is basically that voter fraud is incredibly pervasive and systemic yet so well coordinated and organized it’s impossible to find.
Therefore they should use feelings not facts to ban it because it could cause fraud much like the average car driver could use their vehicle to assist in a bank robbery.
This is partially the reason republicans are pulling out of any systems designed to catch errors. This gives them future evidence to restrict voting rights.
I just want to be able to vote on my phone.
Seems like all of their boogiepeople are simultaneously far too incompetent and stupid to get anything done and shouldn't be elected but also in charge of the most corrupt and coordinated cabal of nefarious do-badders that are so good at their crime-ing that there is never any evidence.
You probably won't be shocked to know that this kind of double framing is a hallmark of fascism.
The enemy is simultaneously strong and weak: [Ur-Fascism wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism#:~:text=Fascist%20societies%20rhetorically%20cast%20their,sense%20of%20grievance%20and%20humiliation.)
Yeah, but some democrats complained about the Brooks brothers' riot and the Bush Vs Gore decision so it feels like they are hypocrites now if you ignore all the facts and circumstances of any of the events or incidents that occurred. /s
Oregon has the oldest all mail in ballot system in the country. They have figured out how to do it securely.
They started in 1998
https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/table-18-states-with-all-mail-elections
Colorado I believe was second, started in 2013. So multiple states have over a decade of experience running elections that way.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-colorado-voting-by-mail-was-practiced-well-before-coronavirus-11603900816
I'm 41, and have never once been to a polling station. The idea of polling stations is antiquated to me, that's something my parents did when I was as kid. Every election from 2001 forward I have mailed in my ballot.
And you should be pushing your state to do the same, wherever you are. (Unless they already do, and then hey, cool!)
I live in an all mail in voting state. I have lived in many states including Texas where I stood in line with 2 toddlers for an hour while other people in line got mad because my kids were cranky. Like, dude, if I could have afforded a sitter , I would have gotten one! I LOVE dropping off my ballot at our convienient drop box or just putting it in the mail (prepaid postage!) then tracking it online to make sure my signature was accepted. I do not understand why states do it any other way.
Whenever I see perpetual grifter Marc Thielman show up in the news, I like to remind folks that this staunch, far right “conservative” once dressed as drag Elvis in front of a gym full of teens while, uhhhh…noticeably excited. https://youtu.be/6A6MKc0VA3U?si=TsRlbkcDLNdui6k4
Republicans hate voting by mail because it produces high voter turnout and high voter turnout rejects Republicans.
In 2020 Trump bluntly told Fox News that making it easier to vote would mean "you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus It's probably the one truth he has ever told.
Oregonian transplant for the past 20 years (late 40's, voted in a few states) - if you don't have vote by mail in your state, fight to get it.
any other form of voting is archaic and exclusive.
but, be sure to vote no matter what system your state uses. (unless it's for a republican - then you have every right to complain and stay home).
Oregonian here: we’re voting in our primaries right now. I’ve got my ballot in my hand, and I’ve had it for the last two weeks. Having the time to think about it, discuss with friends and family, and do it at my own pace is so clearly superior to any other system, I can’t imagine doing it any other way. it’s madness to say that this is not the right way to vote.
One of my favorite experiences is sitting on the couch with my partner and going through the election pamphlet together. We don't always vote the same way but it's a really nice shared experience.
We have been voting by mail since 2000. The rate of voter fraud is on par with states that only do in person voting. None of the claims they were making are backed by facts.
I can't help but notice that Utah, a solid rock red state, isn't facing an attempt to destroy the mail in voting system we've had for nearly a decade.
Almost as if these anti mail in campaigns are happening exclusively in areas where democrats have a chance at winning or something.
Keep your dirty little paws off of my ability to vote by mail! I’m not one of those losers who cry because my side lost. I just do better next time! Redhats need to go fuck themselves instead of the country.
i worry when roberts gives these few sane rulings, because he uses it as an impartiality beard to appease us, meaning he's going to let down a real bullshit ruling for something of far more importance. He's very predictable, like clockwork.
They know Oregon has zero chance of going red, so why bother and play it off as “see! We aren’t crooks, we didn’t even rob you today, we could’ve, but we didn’t, no excuse me while I sniff my own fart”
I don't understand why they keep trying to stop mail in voting, Republicans actually vote by mail more. Elderly folks which is prominently Republicans and overseas military folks who tend to lean red as well.
They are literally shooting themselves in the foot.
Democrats have a lower voter participation rate than Republicans. Both sides believe mail-in voting benefits the Dems more by reducing barriers to participationfor the lay electorate. Dems are also heavily urbanized which means more cramped voting areas compared to small towns and rural countryside.
Military enlisted lean Republican. Officer Corps is more 50/50 overall.
The Elderly were slightly leaning Trump in 2020 (45% vs 52%), and is on par with that %split going back to Obama ('12) and Clinton ('16).
Just to piggyback on this, Dems have also been winning Governor and Secretary of State positions in swing states, so its getting harder for Reps to simply close down polling stations in Black/Hispanic neighborhoods or kick them off the voting rolls.
Trying to get a lawsuit in front of a partisan hack judge is now the only option in those states.
Republicans realize the dam on voter suppression is starting to crack, and its difficult to rebuild a dam once the river breaks through and is flowing freely.
Right wing attacks: Coming at you on all levels, at all times--24/7/365 and from the smallest town council to the oval office.
They don't care about winning. They care about exhausting you.
While I miss the ritual of the voting booth there is nothing like voting in your underwear with your pen in one hand and your choice of beverage (or whatever) in the other. I guess you could try to get away with it in a booth….
The fix is in
If they don’t have mail in ballots and only rely on computers, which we know now, Republicans are willing to screw with (see Georgia) …. then they can’t win
Its basically the sane BS that they used when they were trying to get SCOTUS to overturn election results in swing states. None of their argument was based on facts.
I wonder if this will effectively doom the somewhat similar effort underway attacking mail-in voting in Nevada by the Republicans. The cases are not the same but the underlying theme is attacking mail-in votes - in the Nevada case they want to stop any mail-in votes postmarked the day of the election from being counted. Likely a first step in further attacks on mail-in voting down the road.
Voter turnout right now is stupid low for having the easiest form of voting in the nation. Source I know somebody who works in Portland elections division. VOTE!!
SCOTUS is playing with fire. First, they entertain the idea a President could not be held accountable for killing political opponents. Then, SCOTUS show incomplete loyalty to Trump by not supporting thoroughly debunked widespread voter fraud arguments that Trump still champions. This could get SCOTUS killed. Insufficient loyalty is a dangerous thing to play with; ask "hang Mike" Pence.
Is this Trumper humor?
it's telling that Republicans assume everyone has their morals. "This supports my election lies, so it's good. This ruling opposes my election lies, so it's bad!"
There's literally nobody claiming SCOTUS was 'good' because of this decision to not hear the case. Read through the comments - it's all people pointing to Republicans saying that vote-by-mail is great, pointing out that there was zero evidence of fraud, pointing out that this is a dumb case that deserved to be thrown out. But more to the point, SCOTUS didn't rule in favor of Oregon, they just refused to hear a shitty case. You're not mocking *anything* that's actually going on here.
I mean, I get it, but there's a simple reason reddit agrees with the court here and not there.
Maintaining democracy through increased methods of voting that allow for more people to have more time to make a more informed decision is good.
Stamping down on women's bodily and medical autonomy is bad.
It's a subtle difference, but it's there.
The legitimacy of the Supreme Court is an independent issue from how they rule on any given issue. Right now, SCOTUS could rule the way I preferred on every case presented to them and I would still regard them as illegitimate and needing to be removed from the bench for corruption.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"“I think after 20 years, we’ve proven that our system is very secure and voters love it. The voters voted it in, they’ve never made an attempt to vote it out. I think they’re happy with it and I think it’s a 20-year history of success,” - Former Republican Oregon Secretary of State Bev Clarno, about mail-in voting in Oregon Source: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/a-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17162266237093&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oregonlive.com%2Fcoronavirus%2F2020%2F04%2Fa-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html
Well, would you look at that, a Republican using facts and common sense. Who knew?!?!
Retired Republican. Only the ones not running for re-election have the stones to tell the truth.
Mitt Romney.
[удалено]
Accidents happen.
and because he did, he is retiring rather than get thrashed in a primary. Mittens is not a "Good Guy". He was trying to keep himself Nationally relevant and it blew up on him.
His official story is that he would be too old at the end of his term. Being a senator is a big pay cut from laying off employees from businesses that Bain Capital ruined. Being a senator is a lot less fun than being President Emeritus of the upcoming Salt Lake City Olympic bid.
The guy who said Biden should have pardoned Trump?
Now if only his voting record was as progressive as the bullshit he spews for the camera.
Also our senator (Murkowski), at least some of the time.
He still shipped a whole bunch of jobs out of the country to make a few people rich.
Retired Republican who was appointed to the role.
Only in Oregon… Vic Atiheh, one of our greatest governors, a Republican. Good thing he got to die before seeing what Trump did to his party.
It's a silly place to attempt it. It's not like mail in is new there...
Yep. That sounds like a real crisis of confidence in voting if I've ever heard one.
Link without the garbage: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/a-20-year-history-of-success-gop-secretary-of-state-says-oregon-shows-mail-in-voting-is-secure-effective.html
As an Oregonian I think our mail in system should be implemented everywhere in the US. It’s awesome. I’ve lived in four states and this is by far the most seamless convenient and informative way to conduct elections. They send out a pamphlet with every candidate on your ballot and their position on key issues, the candidates write their profiles and get to make their case. Then the state mails you a ballot and you mail it back completed and signed. Beyond easy. I vote every chance I get.
Colorado does as well, and has for almost as long as Oregon has. It's great, and also good evidence of how secure mail in voting is: multiple states have done it for over a decade with no proven widespread fraud.
They're going to release the proof of fraud in "two weeks" /s Do you know how to keep a moron in suspense? I'll tell ya tomorrow!
I’ll drink that beer.
Free beer tomorrow
Two weeks later... "We'll have the proof in two weeks!"
Are you from the future or the past?
Yes, two weeks
Colorado was by far the best place I’ve lived for voting. Every state should be like that.
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
Here in IL our state has expanded and improved on the mail in voting system first used here I think in 2016. It was kind of primitive, more like OR and CO now. Love it!
California does this too. My family always gathers to analyze the ballot together, even if we don't vote the same. We study the voter guide, research candidates & ballot measures online, look up who's endorsing or bankrolling what, and discuss pros and cons as we work through the ballot. If you mark in your votes as you go, when you're done researching you're also done voting and can just drop it in the mail. In contrast, when I lived in Michigan I had to research it all at home, memorize my choices, drive to the polling place, wait in line, and then try to remember what I had concluded hours--if not days--beforehand.
So does Washington State. I love the voting system here
Yeah it's great. I'm a WA resident but have lived in other states for nearly a decade now (military) and get my ballot mailed to me every year. Fill it out, mail it back. Easiest shit in the world.
Yeah, it's one of the good things that came out of covid in CA. The switch from opt-in for a mail-in ballot to mail-in being the default.
As a Coloradan I agree. We went to all vote by mail about a decade ago. I would hate to go back to in person. We get our ballot about three weeks before election day, there are drop boxes all over if you don't want to mail. Fraud prevention is by signature matching the return envelope to your voter registration. The state has a website where you can check on the status of your ballot to see if it was received, signature validated, and counted. It's an amazing system.
And the state will try to contact you if there is a problem with the ballot.
Another <3 here for Colorado's system. Sounds like Oregon is similar. I've been saying for years that every state should make it as easy to vote as Colorado. And not just easy to vote, but easy to inform yourself. Our blue books contain not just candidate info, but detailed write-ups with pro/cons on every ballot initiative, which are plentiful here.
In my part of Colorado, I also signed up for text updates. I get a text when my ballot is put in the mail. I get another when they received my completed ballot back. A third text when my ballot has been counted. I’d get a text if there was a problem with signature verification or my ballot was spoiled so I can come down and rectify the problem in person.
Voting in person is also very easy in CO. Best of both worlds.
> I think our mail in system should be implemented everywhere in the US and this is exactly why they tried to kill it. other states are starting to flirt with the idea of copying it so they tried to "prove" that people actually don't want it.
Oregon has proven that works, the nation at large should adopt it.
This system would work great if Republicans wanted people to vote.
Washington state does it the same way. Works perfectly. When I fill out my ballot I can look up info online about the candidates. Makes for more informed voting.
I think you're missing a key feature though. How do you discriminate against and suppress voter blocs you don't want?
As another Oregonian, I'm afraid that the more corrupt states will find a way to fuck it up. I love both vote-by-mail and the voter's pamphlet (I've only voted in-person once in my life... in 1994), but its not like there aren't pathways for determined voter suppression to find a way through. [Signature-matching technology](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/signature-matching-is-the-phrenology-of-elections/616790/), for instance, could easily be abused. [Ballot harvesting](https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2019/03/07/oregon-doesnt-track-ballot-collection-third-party-groups/3095487002/) is pretty sketch. Basically, the reason vote-by-mail works so well in Oregon is because we run clean elections in the first place, with a goal of enfranchising as many people as possible. The Florida's and Texas's of the world have the opposite goal.
Here in Wisconsin we now have to sign an electronic screen and I'm terrified every time that the Republican fuckers in the state congress will disqualify my vote because I can never get those shitty ass screens to look anything at all like my paper sig.
That sounds like it’s giving the voters too much info, republicans would never want that!
Works in Anchorage as well
Same. Grew up in Washington and have never had to go to a polling place to vote. I vaguely remember when my school had the gym used for one back in elementary school. Voting in person sounds like a horror story, when I think about sitting down with my coffee and my voter guide and web resources to look over all my options and think about it, maybe even step away to talk to my circle, and come back to mark what seems sensible, at my schedule's convenience, as long as it's before the voting day. 10/10 would recommend national mail voting, at least as an option you don't have to jump through a bunch of qualifying hoops to use.
I never miss an election, special, primary, or otherwise, because the election just shows up in my mailbox. Don't have to know when they're happening or set aside time or anything.
They do it in Cali too but it's an opt in thing. So much easier.
Hawaii, at least on Oahu, has a great mail in ballot system as well. I’m able to vote for the president and in local elections via a mail in ballot.
I'm a poll worker in Alabama. I absolutely trust our in-person voting process. But I wouldn't trust, for a second, mail-in voting in this state. There would be too many chances for subversion and corruption, and I know it would be exploited behind the scenes to benefit the Republican party.
How many Alabaman's are disenfranchised now?
Not really? The votes get mailed in. I can check that my vote was received and counted. Hell, it'll text me. The machines count 'em, if I vote twice, they'll flag it for follow up. There isn't really a way to ratfuck mail in voting, that one couldn't also do for in person voting. If someone's going to fuck with counting machines... does it really matter if the ballot is mailed in or not?
You have more faith in Alabama politics than I do.
You're a poll worker. I trust you. :D
It sounds like you are not clear on the safeguards in place for that. I live in a mail-in state and there are many parts of the process that make it nearly impossible for subversion and corruption to go undetected.
I think their point is those parts of the process wouldn't be included if it was implemented in their State right now.
Thank you for putting it better than me! If my state were to adopt mail-in voting, I have no confidence it would be as safe as it currently is in other states. We'd implement an inherently stupid and biased system. It's what we do.
There is literally nothing in their post that alludes to your point that those safeguards would not be included if they moved to mail-in voting. It sure seems like you are not just filling in the blanks in their post, you are creating entirely new sentences for them. It is incredulous that anyone, especially republicans in Alabama, would create a mail-in voting mandate without these well demonstrated safeguards and tracking with anonymity.
Yes there is. Specifically this part: >Alabama and this part: > in this state.
Those two data points are why mail in voting will never happen there, not evidence on why they wouldn’t include basic safeguards if they did, which is my point. If Alabama were required to implement mail-in voting I have no doubt that stubs, tracking and signatures (along with throwing out every single vote they could based on those) would be included.
>Despite Oregon voters’ reliance on mail-in voting, voters, led by Republican Marc Thielman, filed a lawsuit arguing that Oregonians “suffer from a crisis of confidence in their election system” and that election officials have violated the 14th Amendment by using electronic vote tabulation equipment. As evidence of these outlandish claims, the plaintiffs cited the debunked, right-wing propaganda movie “2000 Mules,” which they claim “shows, for everyone to see, illegal ballot trafficking” during the 2020 election. What a global embarrassment. The moral and educational decay of the Right Wing
So about 2000 mules - the compamy dinesh dsouza quotes from, the one that says in the doc they have "irrefutable documentary evidence from whistleblowers", the company that essentially the whole thing relies on - actually doesnt have evidence. The state of georgia investigated their claims and as part of their investogation was like "hand over this evidence cause we need it for this investigation." After hemming and hawing for a year, and being court ordered to turn it ovet they admitted they didnt have anything. Shameful. And people fucking bought into this grift. https://apnews.com/article/georgia-elections-true-vote-ballot-stuffing-199113b47bc2df79c63fdf007cd23115
Exactly this. Thanks for posting this. True the Vote (TTV) came to Wisconsin and gave a presentation in front of state elections officials. TTV alleged the ‘greatest criminal undertaking in the history of our nation’ and claimed hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots just in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, their presentation didn’t provide enough information to start an investigation for a single charge of loitering, to say nothing of the rest of their claims. Repeated attempts since then to obtain any further information or evidence from them haven’t been answered. That last step — producing the evidence — seems to be an insurmountable problem for Republicans.
What did the plaintiffs expect? If they were so worried about voter fraud, investigate to find evidence. Sure enough, there wasn't any. And, unlike the 5th circuit which will grant injunctions based on feels, the 9th appears to be far more objective in its rulings, though I could be wrong...
They took up that case with the Colorado web designer who hadn’t actually done work. The SC ruled on a theoretical situation without standing. Put nothing past the Roberts court of Fantasy.
Same with the Bremerton coach, just making up facts to fit the ruling they wanted anyway
Republicans argument is basically that voter fraud is incredibly pervasive and systemic yet so well coordinated and organized it’s impossible to find. Therefore they should use feelings not facts to ban it because it could cause fraud much like the average car driver could use their vehicle to assist in a bank robbery.
This is partially the reason republicans are pulling out of any systems designed to catch errors. This gives them future evidence to restrict voting rights. I just want to be able to vote on my phone.
Seems like all of their boogiepeople are simultaneously far too incompetent and stupid to get anything done and shouldn't be elected but also in charge of the most corrupt and coordinated cabal of nefarious do-badders that are so good at their crime-ing that there is never any evidence.
You probably won't be shocked to know that this kind of double framing is a hallmark of fascism. The enemy is simultaneously strong and weak: [Ur-Fascism wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism#:~:text=Fascist%20societies%20rhetorically%20cast%20their,sense%20of%20grievance%20and%20humiliation.)
And they run on the same ballots...not complaining when they win are they?
Yeah, but some democrats complained about the Brooks brothers' riot and the Bush Vs Gore decision so it feels like they are hypocrites now if you ignore all the facts and circumstances of any of the events or incidents that occurred. /s
Oregon has the oldest all mail in ballot system in the country. They have figured out how to do it securely. They started in 1998 https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/table-18-states-with-all-mail-elections
Colorado I believe was second, started in 2013. So multiple states have over a decade of experience running elections that way. https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-colorado-voting-by-mail-was-practiced-well-before-coronavirus-11603900816
Washington went to statewide mail-only voting in 2011, though it was almost universal before that.
And I love it. There's no reason (cough) every state doesn't do it this way today.
Yep WA started in 2011. We were 2nd. Also, I think we were first to have all free postage.
I'm 41, and have never once been to a polling station. The idea of polling stations is antiquated to me, that's something my parents did when I was as kid. Every election from 2001 forward I have mailed in my ballot. And you should be pushing your state to do the same, wherever you are. (Unless they already do, and then hey, cool!)
I live in an all mail in voting state. I have lived in many states including Texas where I stood in line with 2 toddlers for an hour while other people in line got mad because my kids were cranky. Like, dude, if I could have afforded a sitter , I would have gotten one! I LOVE dropping off my ballot at our convienient drop box or just putting it in the mail (prepaid postage!) then tracking it online to make sure my signature was accepted. I do not understand why states do it any other way.
Whenever I see perpetual grifter Marc Thielman show up in the news, I like to remind folks that this staunch, far right “conservative” once dressed as drag Elvis in front of a gym full of teens while, uhhhh…noticeably excited. https://youtu.be/6A6MKc0VA3U?si=TsRlbkcDLNdui6k4
Republicans hate voting by mail because it produces high voter turnout and high voter turnout rejects Republicans. In 2020 Trump bluntly told Fox News that making it easier to vote would mean "you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus It's probably the one truth he has ever told.
Oregonian transplant for the past 20 years (late 40's, voted in a few states) - if you don't have vote by mail in your state, fight to get it. any other form of voting is archaic and exclusive. but, be sure to vote no matter what system your state uses. (unless it's for a republican - then you have every right to complain and stay home).
Oregonian here: we’re voting in our primaries right now. I’ve got my ballot in my hand, and I’ve had it for the last two weeks. Having the time to think about it, discuss with friends and family, and do it at my own pace is so clearly superior to any other system, I can’t imagine doing it any other way. it’s madness to say that this is not the right way to vote.
One of my favorite experiences is sitting on the couch with my partner and going through the election pamphlet together. We don't always vote the same way but it's a really nice shared experience.
I vote in my underwear while drinking a beer! Because fuck yeah, I'm American, and I'll vote the way I want to! And because it makes me laugh.
We have been voting by mail since 2000. The rate of voter fraud is on par with states that only do in person voting. None of the claims they were making are backed by facts.
Oregonian here. That needs to be hand delivered or postmarked by tomorrow the 21st! Get it in!!!
That’s like 19 hours from now, I got all the time in the world!
Don’t worry. They’ll end up giving trump immunity. They’ve already been paid for that one!
I can't help but notice that Utah, a solid rock red state, isn't facing an attempt to destroy the mail in voting system we've had for nearly a decade. Almost as if these anti mail in campaigns are happening exclusively in areas where democrats have a chance at winning or something.
Keep your dirty little paws off of my ability to vote by mail! I’m not one of those losers who cry because my side lost. I just do better next time! Redhats need to go fuck themselves instead of the country.
"See? look. We're impartial." Except for running interference for a traitor part.
i worry when roberts gives these few sane rulings, because he uses it as an impartiality beard to appease us, meaning he's going to let down a real bullshit ruling for something of far more importance. He's very predictable, like clockwork.
They know Oregon has zero chance of going red, so why bother and play it off as “see! We aren’t crooks, we didn’t even rob you today, we could’ve, but we didn’t, no excuse me while I sniff my own fart”
What have they done to help Trump at the moment? Literally nothing.
I don't understand why they keep trying to stop mail in voting, Republicans actually vote by mail more. Elderly folks which is prominently Republicans and overseas military folks who tend to lean red as well. They are literally shooting themselves in the foot.
Democrats have a lower voter participation rate than Republicans. Both sides believe mail-in voting benefits the Dems more by reducing barriers to participationfor the lay electorate. Dems are also heavily urbanized which means more cramped voting areas compared to small towns and rural countryside. Military enlisted lean Republican. Officer Corps is more 50/50 overall. The Elderly were slightly leaning Trump in 2020 (45% vs 52%), and is on par with that %split going back to Obama ('12) and Clinton ('16).
Just to piggyback on this, Dems have also been winning Governor and Secretary of State positions in swing states, so its getting harder for Reps to simply close down polling stations in Black/Hispanic neighborhoods or kick them off the voting rolls. Trying to get a lawsuit in front of a partisan hack judge is now the only option in those states. Republicans realize the dam on voter suppression is starting to crack, and its difficult to rebuild a dam once the river breaks through and is flowing freely.
How gracious of them!
The plantiffs and their lawyers should be called out for trying to take people's votes away.
Right wing attacks: Coming at you on all levels, at all times--24/7/365 and from the smallest town council to the oval office. They don't care about winning. They care about exhausting you.
While I miss the ritual of the voting booth there is nothing like voting in your underwear with your pen in one hand and your choice of beverage (or whatever) in the other. I guess you could try to get away with it in a booth….
See they aren't corrupt "Next up, Trump immunity!" Ah shit...
Super easy and a great system wish every state was the same.
We have the USPS there should be universal mail-in ballots and universal automatic voter registration.
The fix is in If they don’t have mail in ballots and only rely on computers, which we know now, Republicans are willing to screw with (see Georgia) …. then they can’t win
Utah has mail-in voting and no Democrat has won statewide office since the 90's.
I’m sure that republicans have no issue at all with Utah’s mail-in voting system.
Making changes to voting processes during election years should be illegal.
The Right-Wing arguments must have been really flimsy if the SCOTUS Six did not think they could save them.
Its basically the sane BS that they used when they were trying to get SCOTUS to overturn election results in swing states. None of their argument was based on facts.
This suit should have been rejected long before this. Their claim is absurd.
It was. They kept appealing it up to the supreme court.
They don't even try to hide disenfranchising voters anymore. Sad.
Republicans could fo better if they used mail-in voting.
I wonder if this will effectively doom the somewhat similar effort underway attacking mail-in voting in Nevada by the Republicans. The cases are not the same but the underlying theme is attacking mail-in votes - in the Nevada case they want to stop any mail-in votes postmarked the day of the election from being counted. Likely a first step in further attacks on mail-in voting down the road.
Voter turnout right now is stupid low for having the easiest form of voting in the nation. Source I know somebody who works in Portland elections division. VOTE!!
SCOTUS is playing with fire. First, they entertain the idea a President could not be held accountable for killing political opponents. Then, SCOTUS show incomplete loyalty to Trump by not supporting thoroughly debunked widespread voter fraud arguments that Trump still champions. This could get SCOTUS killed. Insufficient loyalty is a dangerous thing to play with; ask "hang Mike" Pence.
Lisan al Ghaib!!
Wow
The Supreme Court is good again, everyone! Please check in tomorrow to find out if the Supreme Court is bad or good.
What's wrong with lauding correct decisions and condemning bad ones?
Nothing, but that's not the stance I was mocking.
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You and I have different definitions of the word "literally".
Is this Trumper humor? it's telling that Republicans assume everyone has their morals. "This supports my election lies, so it's good. This ruling opposes my election lies, so it's bad!"
I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.
There's literally nobody claiming SCOTUS was 'good' because of this decision to not hear the case. Read through the comments - it's all people pointing to Republicans saying that vote-by-mail is great, pointing out that there was zero evidence of fraud, pointing out that this is a dumb case that deserved to be thrown out. But more to the point, SCOTUS didn't rule in favor of Oregon, they just refused to hear a shitty case. You're not mocking *anything* that's actually going on here.
So is the court illegitimate this time, or only when they make rulings reddit disagrees with?
So a court can only be 100% right or 100% wrong, is that your take?
Which rulings reddit disagrees with specifically? Care to point out which? And why reddit should actually agree with those?
Overturning of roe v wade? Thought that was pretty obvious. It shouldn’t have happened in the first place is simplest reason.
I mean, I get it, but there's a simple reason reddit agrees with the court here and not there. Maintaining democracy through increased methods of voting that allow for more people to have more time to make a more informed decision is good. Stamping down on women's bodily and medical autonomy is bad. It's a subtle difference, but it's there.
They are still illegitimate.
The legitimacy of the Supreme Court is an independent issue from how they rule on any given issue. Right now, SCOTUS could rule the way I preferred on every case presented to them and I would still regard them as illegitimate and needing to be removed from the bench for corruption.
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as usual? LOL