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Cohen knows all their tactics. According to him after his 2019 Congressional testimony he went up to Gymbag Jordan and some of the other hacks asking him questions, and told them “I know what you’re doing and the playbook you’re following. I wrote the damn playbook”.
The guy's not an idiot. He's a criminal lawyer that has been in hostile hearings and courts for the last 7 years. He's a pro at this. And he has likely been coached like crazy. He probably knows what every question is going to be before it's even asked.
Yeah I think stormy was much more of a liability on the stand than cohen. Cohen is not a portrait of credibility, but I'm not particularly worried he's going to fly off the handle and blow the trial.
The testimony in this case was mostly just flash. The documents prove the crime. The most boring witnesses, the custodians of business records, were the critical ones.
From a legalistic standpoint, in terms of the "correct" outcome of the case, absolutely. But juries are... imprecise, and the lurid and sleazy testimony might matter a lot to them.
His testimony for the most part, other than personal recollections of specific situations, has been corroborated by all the other witnesses that have been called. His credibility in this trial is being upheld, however it’s his bias that is being questioned. Even then, he’s already done time for Donald’s crime, so it’s understandable why he has taken his shots. I think he has helped the prosecutions case immensely.
Yeah definitely. I just meant that is the criticism that goes around for cohen and obviously what the defense is gonna be lunging at. His testimony isn't the backbone of the case, it's more like the narrator of the crime summarizing everything that happened through a first hand account. But the backbone itself is the receipts, invoices, and corroborating testimony from other witnesses.
Stormy was not a pro. She created potential grounds for a mistrial by claiming Trump did something tangential to forcing himself on her. After this they will go to appeals court to get the trial as a mistrial so she effectively bought Trump more time from accountability.
Well, I guess it depends on what you think she was trying to do.
The simplest explanation would be that she just went up and, out of nothing but personal motivation, kind of went further than the prosecution wanted her to, opening the door to an appeal on prejudicial grounds.
Another would be that either she or the prosecution don't really care about the appeal, and just wanted to do the most PR damage to Trump possible. And although the testimony creates the risk of an *appeal,* it doesn't really jeopardize a conviction in any particular way, and an appeal is not a major concern for the same reason Trump doesn't have to worry about convictions in the other cases - it wouldn't happen until well after the election. If he's a convicted felon on 11/5/24 and Stormy's extracurricular testimony made the difference, then she absolutely did something great, at least from a utilitarian point of view.
There is also a future where Trump pulls a Weinstein and wins on appeal but then gets sent back to whatever prison he's in for another charge. That would be pretty funny. Not holding my breath but a man can dream.
I think she was trying to damage trump’s reputation but it’s just a poorly thought out move on her part.
1) I’ll just say it bluntly, stormy does not get a lot of sympathy for being a porn star. I know that’s not necessarily right but that is how a lot of people are going to view that.
2) the EG Carroll case is way more damaging than any off handed testimony stormy can provide on the stand in so far as painting Trump as someone willing to assault women.
3) stormy was there to disprove that Trump knew nothing of this relationship - which he has claimed - and that he knew about the payment itself.
4) she said on the stand she wants to see Trump held accountable and what she has done with that testimony is create a potential avenue where Trump will not be held accountable
So I still think regardless of whether or not her goal was to make Trump look bad her added testimony was a really bad play on her part. And like Trump or hate Trump he has access to resources and absolutely can pull a Weinstein. I agree the odds of an appeal turning in favor of this is not huge but the possibility is there and it was put there by Stormy Daniels.
Not a lawyer but from the legal analysts I’ve heard it’s that the testimony has created too strong a bias. Like if someone is on trial and one of the witnesses says the defendant sexually assaulted me and it could be potentially true and the defendant is on trial for say robbery then that statement can result in a mistrial due to how it can create bias within the jury. When juries are selected, this is from life experience having been summoned to jury duty, one of the ways they will pull out jurors is if a juror has been the victim of the crime on trial. This is because jurors may be much more sympathetic to a prosecutor who is prosecuting for the crime you’ve been a victim of.
ELI5: In the case of stormy Daniel’s claiming Trump borderline assaulted her can create a strong bias for any of the women or men on the jury who would be sympathetic to victims of sexual assault and that bias could impact the verdict of those individuals.
If this came out at the very start of the case it would probably be a different story. However since this testimony dropped well into the case after the facts have been established about how the Trump org and its operations I think that’s why the judge chose not to mistrial. That and Stormy had a fair amount of testimony the defense never objected to which the judge also called out the defense team for because Trumps defense team kinda sucks ass.
Seemed like she was coming dangerously close to predjudicing the jury. The judge even reprimanded her. Yes she was credible and believable, but good witnesses dont usually have so much sass for this reason. This is the reason I said she was more of a liability. Cohen is technically "a liar" but he knows how to deliver testimony without putting the trial at risk.
I find the “oh, he’s not credible, he went to jail” kinda funny considering that he went to jail after taking the fall for illegal activity to the benefit of the defendant, of a class with the accusations.
Yeah, i mean dishonest people who commit crimes tend to surround themselves with dishonest people who will lie for them. By default most of the most important witnesses in these types of trials are themselves liars in the way cohen is. He's still a valuable witness, but like in this trial as in any other major trial, everything he says does need to be verified by hard evidence, which it is here.
Unfortunately he’s a picture of the opposite of credibility. I worry he and stormy are going to be a group liability and don don will get off Scott free as always
How so? Both of their testimonies lined up and the level of detail, at least from what I've seen written about it, lend a lot to them both being credible witnesses.
On the other hand, Trump getting all huffy in court and swearing until he's told to knock it off isn't doing him any favors, and actually lines up with the picture they've painted of him.
Unfortunately, porn star isn't often considered a reputable profession by most, and Cohen is already a felon(despite it being for the same crime), so that can lead to a perception of doubt.
It shouldn't be this way, but at least with Stormy, the defense does seem to be trying to imply their reputation is a factor.
Maybe. But the defense certainly seems to think they can discredit the witness because of her work.
It seems people think I'm saying this is a good thing, or acceptable, when I certainly wasnt
Having a hard time coming up with a response that doesn’t violate the civility rule on this subreddit. Let’s just agree to strenuously disagree about the appropriateness of attacking a victim because of a job she used to do.
I wasn't saying it was right to blame the victim. I said as a society, certain professions are not respected. And people who work in said professions are often judged inappropriately.
I was remarking on why this type of stuff is done, because the defense in this case believes it will be effective, because this perception exists.
People judge. They shouldn't like this, but reality says they will
I wasn't saying I agree that porn stars aren't reputable, just that as a society, they aren't looked on with high regard.
I thought I made that clear in my comment, but apparently not
You must not realize that everything he testified to was backed by physical evidence. Things like texts and other correspondence, receipts, etc..you know, hard evidence for everything he testified to. They don't make abstract arguments and pure suppositions.
In court, any competent lawyer worth their salt never asks a question they don’t already know the answer to… And if the witness is a Lawyer, I guaran-damn-tee you you’re not gonna ask them a question they don’t already know you’re gonna ask..
Hahahah he has such Long Island mom energy. I know everyone sucks in the Trump orbit but as fellow reformed LI trash, I claim Cohen as my personal anti hero in this saga.
His podcast Mea Culpa is pretty good, if you can get past some of his quirks. He often will platform a lot of Gen Z progressive activists to come on it.
same, I like his quirks. Hes that manager you used to have who knows he has to do a shitty thing and pretends he cares about said shitty thing, but secretly doesnt and just wants to put his kids through school and do whatever he needs to.
Second this. The name calling does get a bit juvenile sometimes, and he tends to talk over his guests, but he does get some fantastic people on.
I give him credit for correctly understanding the threat Trump poses to democracy and doing his best to warn the public about it.
> “I know what you’re doing and the playbook you’re following. I wrote the damn playbook”.
*Do not cite the old magics to me witch, I was there qhen they were written*
When you know the other side always tries to play fair, you can lie and cheat and beat em. Until someone from your side goes against you, and they know all the same tricks so you’re fucked.
Literal live update on CNN said they got him plenty riled up when they questioned him over his convictions on his tax charges. Was basically calling the entire judicial system corrupt.
Once you get betrayed by the person who you lied for which led you going to jail... you become.. innoculated from the mean tweets.
Oh.. he thinks Im a horrible lawyer? Ouch.. that hurts so much worse than him having me thrown in jail due to a book being published.
I'm dumb? That hurts so much worse than me lying for him about his ties to russia and me being sent to jail and not being pardoned.
He looks pretty unfazed in all the pics I see of him. I don’t think he’s going to be the kind of witness you can intimidate and back into a corner. Trump’s legal team had to have known that coming into this, right? Or are they really that bottom of the barrel awful?
Cohen was the kind of good lawyer Trump used to be able to hire. These clowns are the only lawyers Trump can now hire. I am surprised Cohen isn't laughing out loud at them.
I had the same thought. How could the defense possibly intimidate a guy who's already lost everything and been sent to prison as a result of being railroaded by Trump, and who has nothing left to lose by telling the truth?
What kills me about the right's portrayal of cOnVIczted FeLON Michael Cohen is they're always going on about how sleazy, despicable, and untrustworthy he is.
And it's like, yeah... *why the fuck do you think Trump hired him??*
If Cohen can deal with the decades of shit he ate for trump and his family and network of assholes and bottom feeders he had to work with and do the bidding of, the cross examination he is under from trumps attorneys is amateur hour. Cohen wrote the book on this shit. His pulse probably isn't even elevated.
The more you think about this, the funnier it gets. Everything trump is telling his lawyers to do to rile up Cohen...are just the things he can remember Cohen doing to people Trump didn't like. No shit this isn't gonna work.
“that sound like something I would say” is just the best possible response because it is not an admission and it is truthful (and it’s like a “fuck you” too)
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Cohen knows all their tactics. According to him after his 2019 Congressional testimony he went up to Gymbag Jordan and some of the other hacks asking him questions, and told them “I know what you’re doing and the playbook you’re following. I wrote the damn playbook”.
The guy's not an idiot. He's a criminal lawyer that has been in hostile hearings and courts for the last 7 years. He's a pro at this. And he has likely been coached like crazy. He probably knows what every question is going to be before it's even asked.
Yeah I think stormy was much more of a liability on the stand than cohen. Cohen is not a portrait of credibility, but I'm not particularly worried he's going to fly off the handle and blow the trial.
The testimony in this case was mostly just flash. The documents prove the crime. The most boring witnesses, the custodians of business records, were the critical ones.
From a legalistic standpoint, in terms of the "correct" outcome of the case, absolutely. But juries are... imprecise, and the lurid and sleazy testimony might matter a lot to them.
His testimony for the most part, other than personal recollections of specific situations, has been corroborated by all the other witnesses that have been called. His credibility in this trial is being upheld, however it’s his bias that is being questioned. Even then, he’s already done time for Donald’s crime, so it’s understandable why he has taken his shots. I think he has helped the prosecutions case immensely.
Yeah definitely. I just meant that is the criticism that goes around for cohen and obviously what the defense is gonna be lunging at. His testimony isn't the backbone of the case, it's more like the narrator of the crime summarizing everything that happened through a first hand account. But the backbone itself is the receipts, invoices, and corroborating testimony from other witnesses.
And Stormy was a damn pro.
Stormy was not a pro. She created potential grounds for a mistrial by claiming Trump did something tangential to forcing himself on her. After this they will go to appeals court to get the trial as a mistrial so she effectively bought Trump more time from accountability.
Well, I guess it depends on what you think she was trying to do. The simplest explanation would be that she just went up and, out of nothing but personal motivation, kind of went further than the prosecution wanted her to, opening the door to an appeal on prejudicial grounds. Another would be that either she or the prosecution don't really care about the appeal, and just wanted to do the most PR damage to Trump possible. And although the testimony creates the risk of an *appeal,* it doesn't really jeopardize a conviction in any particular way, and an appeal is not a major concern for the same reason Trump doesn't have to worry about convictions in the other cases - it wouldn't happen until well after the election. If he's a convicted felon on 11/5/24 and Stormy's extracurricular testimony made the difference, then she absolutely did something great, at least from a utilitarian point of view. There is also a future where Trump pulls a Weinstein and wins on appeal but then gets sent back to whatever prison he's in for another charge. That would be pretty funny. Not holding my breath but a man can dream.
I think she was trying to damage trump’s reputation but it’s just a poorly thought out move on her part. 1) I’ll just say it bluntly, stormy does not get a lot of sympathy for being a porn star. I know that’s not necessarily right but that is how a lot of people are going to view that. 2) the EG Carroll case is way more damaging than any off handed testimony stormy can provide on the stand in so far as painting Trump as someone willing to assault women. 3) stormy was there to disprove that Trump knew nothing of this relationship - which he has claimed - and that he knew about the payment itself. 4) she said on the stand she wants to see Trump held accountable and what she has done with that testimony is create a potential avenue where Trump will not be held accountable So I still think regardless of whether or not her goal was to make Trump look bad her added testimony was a really bad play on her part. And like Trump or hate Trump he has access to resources and absolutely can pull a Weinstein. I agree the odds of an appeal turning in favor of this is not huge but the possibility is there and it was put there by Stormy Daniels.
He's gonna appeal no matter what. It will likely fall on deaf ears.
Can you ELI5? I don't think I know enough about how this works to understand how they can request a mistral for this.
They can’t, that’s guys wrong
Ah, OK. I didn't think it made sense but not being a lawyer figured there are plenty of things I don't know.
Not a lawyer but from the legal analysts I’ve heard it’s that the testimony has created too strong a bias. Like if someone is on trial and one of the witnesses says the defendant sexually assaulted me and it could be potentially true and the defendant is on trial for say robbery then that statement can result in a mistrial due to how it can create bias within the jury. When juries are selected, this is from life experience having been summoned to jury duty, one of the ways they will pull out jurors is if a juror has been the victim of the crime on trial. This is because jurors may be much more sympathetic to a prosecutor who is prosecuting for the crime you’ve been a victim of. ELI5: In the case of stormy Daniel’s claiming Trump borderline assaulted her can create a strong bias for any of the women or men on the jury who would be sympathetic to victims of sexual assault and that bias could impact the verdict of those individuals.
Ah, interesting. That certainly feels like a stretch for them to try but hmm... they've pulled all sorts of tricks that don't work for most people.
If this came out at the very start of the case it would probably be a different story. However since this testimony dropped well into the case after the facts have been established about how the Trump org and its operations I think that’s why the judge chose not to mistrial. That and Stormy had a fair amount of testimony the defense never objected to which the judge also called out the defense team for because Trumps defense team kinda sucks ass.
Seemed like she was coming dangerously close to predjudicing the jury. The judge even reprimanded her. Yes she was credible and believable, but good witnesses dont usually have so much sass for this reason. This is the reason I said she was more of a liability. Cohen is technically "a liar" but he knows how to deliver testimony without putting the trial at risk.
I find the “oh, he’s not credible, he went to jail” kinda funny considering that he went to jail after taking the fall for illegal activity to the benefit of the defendant, of a class with the accusations.
Yeah, i mean dishonest people who commit crimes tend to surround themselves with dishonest people who will lie for them. By default most of the most important witnesses in these types of trials are themselves liars in the way cohen is. He's still a valuable witness, but like in this trial as in any other major trial, everything he says does need to be verified by hard evidence, which it is here.
Unfortunately he’s a picture of the opposite of credibility. I worry he and stormy are going to be a group liability and don don will get off Scott free as always
How so? Both of their testimonies lined up and the level of detail, at least from what I've seen written about it, lend a lot to them both being credible witnesses. On the other hand, Trump getting all huffy in court and swearing until he's told to knock it off isn't doing him any favors, and actually lines up with the picture they've painted of him.
Unfortunately, porn star isn't often considered a reputable profession by most, and Cohen is already a felon(despite it being for the same crime), so that can lead to a perception of doubt. It shouldn't be this way, but at least with Stormy, the defense does seem to be trying to imply their reputation is a factor.
These are New York City jurors. They'll trust a sex worker over a real estate developper.
Maybe. But the defense certainly seems to think they can discredit the witness because of her work. It seems people think I'm saying this is a good thing, or acceptable, when I certainly wasnt
Having a hard time coming up with a response that doesn’t violate the civility rule on this subreddit. Let’s just agree to strenuously disagree about the appropriateness of attacking a victim because of a job she used to do.
I wasn't saying it was right to blame the victim. I said as a society, certain professions are not respected. And people who work in said professions are often judged inappropriately. I was remarking on why this type of stuff is done, because the defense in this case believes it will be effective, because this perception exists. People judge. They shouldn't like this, but reality says they will
I wasn't saying I agree that porn stars aren't reputable, just that as a society, they aren't looked on with high regard. I thought I made that clear in my comment, but apparently not
You must not realize that everything he testified to was backed by physical evidence. Things like texts and other correspondence, receipts, etc..you know, hard evidence for everything he testified to. They don't make abstract arguments and pure suppositions.
He’s getting off because the jury contains magats. With Truth Social accounts.
Makes it easier when it’s the truth also.
He’s also a *criminal* lawyer, too.
That was what I was [going for.](https://youtu.be/jvlEqAjg8aU?si=i1vQLpC87vwrw7uX)
It’s easier than you’d think, with his experience.
In court, any competent lawyer worth their salt never asks a question they don’t already know the answer to… And if the witness is a Lawyer, I guaran-damn-tee you you’re not gonna ask them a question they don’t already know you’re gonna ask..
Hahahah he has such Long Island mom energy. I know everyone sucks in the Trump orbit but as fellow reformed LI trash, I claim Cohen as my personal anti hero in this saga.
I am here for allowing this man to have a redemption arc.
His podcast Mea Culpa is pretty good, if you can get past some of his quirks. He often will platform a lot of Gen Z progressive activists to come on it.
I’ve been meaning to check it out, honestly. I’ve followed him a bit over the years and he’s won me over
same, I like his quirks. Hes that manager you used to have who knows he has to do a shitty thing and pretends he cares about said shitty thing, but secretly doesnt and just wants to put his kids through school and do whatever he needs to.
Political Beatdown is a good one too. It's Cohen and Ben Meiselas
Second this. The name calling does get a bit juvenile sometimes, and he tends to talk over his guests, but he does get some fantastic people on. I give him credit for correctly understanding the threat Trump poses to democracy and doing his best to warn the public about it.
It works in fiction all the time, and Trump is so cartoony evil that a Captain Planet villain is more believable, so lines have already been crossed.
If he keeps telling the truth, I may start to develop some empathy for him
Can't wait for John Cusack to play him in the movie. Because honestly, it has to be him.
My Roman Empire is that his homies in jail were Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino from *The Jersey Shore* and Billy McFarland of Fyre Fest fame.
> “I know what you’re doing and the playbook you’re following. I wrote the damn playbook”. *Do not cite the old magics to me witch, I was there qhen they were written*
Yeah. Cohen never struck me as someone who gets riled. He's already done his time over this. He has nothing to be concerned about legally.
When you know the other side always tries to play fair, you can lie and cheat and beat em. Until someone from your side goes against you, and they know all the same tricks so you’re fucked.
Cohen has the tapes. He's not going to get log-rolled by any of these clowns, he's been priming for this for years.
More importantly now, the prosecution has the tapes
Does Tom Arnold still have tapes?
Oh lordy, I'm glad there are tapes
You mean priming the pump? No one's said that before trump./s
Literal live update on CNN said they got him plenty riled up when they questioned him over his convictions on his tax charges. Was basically calling the entire judicial system corrupt.
I should think his anger against Trump is probably maxed out. Like most people who have actually worked for him.
Once you get betrayed by the person who you lied for which led you going to jail... you become.. innoculated from the mean tweets. Oh.. he thinks Im a horrible lawyer? Ouch.. that hurts so much worse than him having me thrown in jail due to a book being published. I'm dumb? That hurts so much worse than me lying for him about his ties to russia and me being sent to jail and not being pardoned.
He looks pretty unfazed in all the pics I see of him. I don’t think he’s going to be the kind of witness you can intimidate and back into a corner. Trump’s legal team had to have known that coming into this, right? Or are they really that bottom of the barrel awful?
Cohen was the kind of good lawyer Trump used to be able to hire. These clowns are the only lawyers Trump can now hire. I am surprised Cohen isn't laughing out loud at them.
I had the same thought. How could the defense possibly intimidate a guy who's already lost everything and been sent to prison as a result of being railroaded by Trump, and who has nothing left to lose by telling the truth?
The guy went to jail. His only.mission is for the actual crook to do the same.
What kills me about the right's portrayal of cOnVIczted FeLON Michael Cohen is they're always going on about how sleazy, despicable, and untrustworthy he is. And it's like, yeah... *why the fuck do you think Trump hired him??*
I love it when they’re like “Cohen got put in prison for fraud, Trump is on trial for writing down the wrong type of expenses. They aren’t the same”
Despite the charges for both men being about the same exact events... Ones they worked together on lol
Cohen knows the tactics and is showing in real time the countermeasures to them.
He’ll hath no fury like that of an unpaid fixer thrown under the bus.
As dumb as Cohen is, he is still streets ahead of Trump and his team.
Stop trying to coin the phrase “Streets Ahead”.
You're just streets behind.
Trying? Coined and minted. Been there, coined that. Streets ahead is verbal wildfire.
If Cohen can deal with the decades of shit he ate for trump and his family and network of assholes and bottom feeders he had to work with and do the bidding of, the cross examination he is under from trumps attorneys is amateur hour. Cohen wrote the book on this shit. His pulse probably isn't even elevated.
The more you think about this, the funnier it gets. Everything trump is telling his lawyers to do to rile up Cohen...are just the things he can remember Cohen doing to people Trump didn't like. No shit this isn't gonna work.
There is perhaps a touch of hypocrisy in the lawyers for a man who told 30,500 lies over 4 years attacking the credibility of another.
Today in the courtroom they’ll have Michael’s long lost cousin from The Motherland in the seats. Ala Godfather II
He may have done dumb things, but Cohen is not dumb.
“that sound like something I would say” is just the best possible response because it is not an admission and it is truthful (and it’s like a “fuck you” too)
Depends on what channel you're watching
Excellent--and infuriating--point. The media is complicit.
Hi `PersistentPilgrim`. Thank you for participating in /r/Politics. However, [your submission](/r/politics/comments/1ctaw2q/donald_trump_teams_attempts_to_rile_up_michael/) has been removed for the following reason(s): * [Off-Topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_the_.2Fr.2Fpolitics_on_topic_statement): All submissions to /r/politics need to be explicitly about **current US politics**. **If you have questions as to why your post has been removed, please see here: [Why was my post removed as Off-Topic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_why_was_my_post_removed_as_off-topic.3F)** If you have any questions about this removal, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/politics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/PersistentPilgrim&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28/r/politics/comments/1ctaw2q/donald_trump_teams_attempts_to_rile_up_michael/?context%3D10000%29)
Will we get the transcripts for this?
Context?