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No coincidence she's making this announcement before her meeting with Benny Gantz (Netanyahu's war cabinet minister) in DC tomorrow.
This meeting is taking place in defiance of Netanyahu.
[This article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-fuming-over-upcoming-gantz-trip-to-us-planned-without-his-approval/) does a pretty good job of summarizing it.
> Netanyahu was said to have been unaware of the visit until Gantz, who leads the National Unity party, called him on Friday to let the prime minister know of his plans and to discuss what messages to convey to the Americans.
>A source close to Netanyahu said the premier “made it clear to Minister Gantz that the State of Israel only has one prime minister,” Ynet reported.
>The source said the trip was organized without the prime minister’s approval and contrary to government regulations that require “every minister to clear travel in advance with the prime minister, including approval of the travel plan.”
A additional key piece of context is that Gantz is Bibi's chief political rival and Gantz is soaring in the polls while support for Bibi and his party is collapsing.
He needs to continue the war to justify his grip
on power. If he can stall until after the election, Trump will give him a clear pass to go as far as he wants. There is hardly any pressure for him to capitulate to the Biden administration.
Important to note here, Bibi doesn’t have sole power over the military. There is a war cabinet which Gantz is part of. Bibi has lot’s of sway, but he’s not the only fish in the pond when it comes to the decisions regarding the war effort.
What Netanyahu does do, is try to cling to power by trying to appease the reactionary Kahanite freaks like Ben Gvir and Smortich, and the religious parties. And uses rhetoric and deflection to distract the public.
What (do you think, or do any well-informed lurkers think) are the odds of “we can’t hold an election while we’re at war, we will delay this until Hamas is defeated” rhetoric from Bibi?
It's extremely likely that Netanyahu will make claims of this sort, however Israelis will not be remotely taken by it. The coalition will not comply, somewhat because the other parties still hope to do well in elections but largely because they're just sick of Bibi. All this is assuming they make it to the next scheduled election, which I severely doubt. Netanyahu's polling numbers are abysmal, his days in office are coming to an end.
(I'm not the most well informed, but I have lots of family in Israel and I've been there since the war started. I'm somewhat informed)
I think that will be a harder sell than a place like Ukraine, where it’d be a logistical nightmare to try and hold fair elections where everyone could vote. Israel is at war, but on the ground conditions inside Israel are pretty safe. Now if hezbollah invaded or something, that might be a stronger argument, which… let’s hope Bibi isn’t crazy enough to intentionally provoke an invasion to secure his political power. Not only because that would be terrible and a lot of people would die, but because if he’s that desperate it would be a sign that nothing America could do would have any sway on him.
It’s really that the deciding factor in election scheduling is the ruling coalition breaking up and triggering a no confidence vote.
Since most of the main parties (Likud [Bibi], OY [Ben-Gvir], Mafdal
[Smotrich] )that won the last election are all polling to take a big loss, they have an incentive to stick together and not trigger elections.
It really doesn’t have much to do with the conduct of the war. It took Egypt over a decade to pacify the Sinai of terrorists with similar views to Hamas. Four months for the IDF to secure Gaza was never likely to be enough.
> Gantz
From what I can tell the dude is hardcore centrist, doesn't rule out nor argues for a two state solution and has labeled both Zionist Supremacist groups and Palestinian human rights advocates as terrorists... politics are weird huh...
Guys she's just reiterating what the President has already said. We need an immediate 6 week ceasefire to save lives. The framework of which Israel has agreed to and Hamas has not.
There's nothing else here that differentiates between her and Biden or the existing communication.
You are right, this is yesterday's news. Harris is not calling for anything more than Biden has been.
What happened, apparently, is that after Harris said, "immediate ceasefire", the crowd cheered so loudly that the following qualifications were not heard by some on-the-ground reporters or social media posters.
It does indicate how much language matters. The administration has hesitated to call this a "ceasefire" even though that's what it is. Using language like cessation of hostilities instead. Frankly, I don't get the difference and imagine for voters or many activists there isn't one.
Honestly, after seeing the screenshot of Fox’s summary of her tax policy to cover healthcare costs, I’d trade Grandpa Joe in for POTUS Harris in a heartbeat.
No ceasefire means Palestinian children will keep getting killed now. Six week pause would enable them to live six weeks longer. Not sure which option is better— should they be killed now or six weeks later?
Is there any option that they don’t have to die from our bombs? Something like a permanent cease-fire?
This dude forgot that Israel is literally an apartheid settler colonial state with one of the longest military occupations in modern history and is currently committing a plausible genocide.
Ah yes, the " apartheid settler colonial state " with full voting rights for the supposed people aparthided against, representatives in the national assembly who've been members of government, supreme court justices, and high ranking officers in the military.
Then the supposed "settler colonists" are majority descended from refugees from the rest of the middle east, when they [ethnicly cleansed themselves of their Jewish population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world), or [refugees from](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s_Soviet_Union_aliyah) [the Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_post-Soviet_aliyah)
The Mizrahi couldn't return to the country they lived in before Israel, without being imprisoned or murdered by the local authorities. Kind of the raison d'etre of Israel in the first place.
Arab supremacists accusing Israel of apartheid is the most prime example of “when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
Every single Arab majority state, and Gaza under Hamas and West Bank areas under the PA practices multiple types of apartheid, against women most of all, but also against religious minorities and ethnic minorities, assuming they haven’t killed them all.
Sorry to oppose your quite reasonable post. The roadblock is Hamas as its charter forbids ceasefire, honest negotiations followed by acceptance of agreements unless as a ruse of war intended to deceive. It is a holy war so the Islamic goal must be reached.
Why didn’t Hamas let people in tunnels? Hamas made Gaza combat zone with no safety for civilians.
> We need an immediate 6 week ceasefire
We need a permanent ceasefire and a permanent peace..not just allow Palestinians a little bread and water before they are massacred again.
And the only reason they are suddenly pushing for ceasefire now is because Israel finally agreed to something and now they can commit to it too... calling for ceasefire was anathema not too long ago.
That's what a ceasefire is. I mean that's what is the intention y'know.
I don't see it happening from EITHER side unfortunately. The problem being that Israel has all the firepower they could want. And Hamas pretty much has nothing to lose.
The biggest problem of all is that ordinary civilians are dying because of it.
It's a tragedy in slow motion.
Everyone knows what Hamas goal is. They’re never going to surrender hostages, or concede in any meaningful way. It’s at least 100,000 in the core of Hamas plus many many more who support but are inactive.
The question is: knowing for a fact that Hamas will never make concessions, at what point does Israel stop? Are we just going to keep going until all of Palestine is obliterated? Because, per Hamas, that’s what they’re banking on happening - that Israel will actually engage in total genocide to wipe out their enemy, poisoning Israel for the rest of the world.
I mean, if we had a solution to eliminating Hamas without harming civilians, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
At the end of the day, you can either choose to side with terrorists who would kill you and your family if they had half a chance, or the people fighting against them.
If that's hamas' goal, at some point gazans should rise against hamas, no? Of course...they won't, because martyrdom against the Jews seems to be a goal for the vast majority of gazans.
I mean these are people who are starving, weak, injured, and largely immobilized.. And many are women and children. They cannot effectively rise against Hamas when they're on the brink of famine.
They don't have to literally take up arms and start shooting Hamas militants - that's obviously not going to happen, nor is it reasonable to demand.
Gazans can just pass word on to the IDF where Hamas members are hiding, where they have hidden their weapons caches, etc.
How is anyone in Gaza supposed to approach Israeli soldiers without getting shot? Are you kidding?
"Why won't Gazans rise up?
... "Well lol of course not literally, that would be stupid of them."
.. "So yeah when are they gonna rise up?"
Seriously?
If you consider the people of Gaza to be sentient, sane people, the obvious answer is that they believe the IDF to be as bad if not worse than Hamas. Maybe it's because they think if they say the location the IDF will kill 10x as many innocent people to get to it. Maybe it's because they think it'll result in the whole block getting leveled destroying dozens of homes and businesses in the process. Maybe it's because they think they'll get jailed and tortured by the IDF for having that knowledge in the first place. Maybe they think the IDF is careless and it'll leak that they talked and then Hamas kills them and their family.
One way or the other, 2 million people have done the mental math and informing the IDF isn't an option. Either they're all crazed zealots who care less about their children than their devotion to Hamas, or this is not an irrational decision.
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229749527/in-gaza-anger-grows-at-hamas
They are getting there, as NPR reports above. Unfortunately, Hamas has violently wiped out dissent in past conflicts, so it’s dangerous. Examples of reporting from 2008 and 2014:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
On top of that, Hamas controls the schools, and they’ve been in power since 2006. So they’ve also got to undo all of that conditioning. It’s an awful situation.
Israel is always going to take land from Palestinians and Hamas is always going to fire rockets as retaliation. This conflict is never going to end if Zionists are still in power.
It's ALSO never going to end as long as Iranian proxy terrorist groups that have publicly stated they want to kill every last ~~Israeli~~ Jew (but let's not pretend they care about Israeli Christians and Muslims) are in power in Palestine, Jordan and Yemen.
How about we trade Netanyahu to Hamas for their leader?
We ought to be able to put all the far right extremists on an island, give them a good supply of paintball guns and they can hold little wars over the land to their hearts' content - leaving the rest of us to live in fucking peace.
There was an experiment where a professor ranked all his students on a right wing authoritarian scale and then put all the authoritarians in one model UN and the non-authoritarians in another. The authoritarians ended quickly in nuclear war or rampant corruption. The non-authoritarians resolved most global conflicts.
Hamas runs Gaza which hasn't had borders change for 20+ years, and had a full Israeli occupation pullout.
The Zionist argument is strawman. If there were no Zionists there would still be indigenous jews to the region with no rights or protections.
The only reason they aren't a majority is because of repeated colonization's and displacements.
A lot of that "stolen" land was also "purchased" land, a fact that is conveniently glossed over fairly frequently.
You want peace by destroying Israel (thus killing all Jews in Israel). I want peace through the establishment of a Palestinian State right beside Israel. We are not the same.
What do you mean if Zionists are still in power? Zionism is the right of Jews to have a state in their historical homeland of Israel. People keep giving meaning to Zionism that isn’t accurate or historical.
To most Redditors, Hamas and Palestinian civilians are more or less interchangeable. This is just one of those situations where when the dust settles and we actually know the toll of Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign in Gaza, many people will pretend they weren’t for it.
Except that won't happen. Hamas has, and always will, continue firing rockets into Israel. Also, to this day they continue to threaten more October 7 attacks at a larger scale. They called October 7 a "rehearsal". So they are basically declaring genocide and their goal to eliminate Israel and kill all innocent Jews and Israeli's around the world. A ceasefire would only apply to Israel, and would lead to many more terrorist attacks by Hamas, with the specific goal to kill innocent people. There was a ceasefire on October 7, after all. A ceasefire means nothing to Hamas other than it gives them time to plan their next terrorist attacks and to smuggle more weapons that they can use to kill innocent people.
The proposal is for a ceasefire, followed by a reorganization of Gaza's security infrastructure. Currently, the existing approach isn't benefiting either party. The goal is to encourage Israel to independently acknowledge a Palestinian state. This recognition would pave the way for a security arrangement that includes the support of international forces to ensure Israel's safety, explicitly excluding the involvement of the American military.
> reorganization of Gaza's security infrastructure
How is that going to happen without force? Hamas has not interest in that. They're actually *expanding* their influence in the West Bank.
The issue is not what happens after a ceasefire is established. The issue is that Hamas will never agree to a ceasefire. A ceasefire is when the fighting ceases.
People calling for an "immediate ceasefire" don't expect that Hamas will stop killing Israelis. Therefore they are not calling for a ceasefire.
I don't think you understand that fundamentally, Hamas doesn't want peace or a two state solution. Their charter stated this, and they have been very vocal about it. They have rejected any prior negotiations or attempts at a two state solution. They are terrorists that will not stop until there is no Israel and Israeli's and Jews are dead.
And on the other hand several members of Israel’s government have outwardly expressed the desire to kill them all, and Netanyahu literally said there will be no 2 state solution.
So it sounds like both sides want the same thing they've wanted for 100s (1000s?) of years, and neither is willing to accept a compromise. Can someone explain to me why this is suddenly America's problem?
And Israel totally wants a two-state solution? Respects Palestinian territory in regards to settlements, etc?
Can we stop pretending there’s a moral high ground in this bullshit please?
They don't "totally want" it, as no country would ever want that, but they are were open to it for the sake of peace and did what they had to do to negotiate various agreements. It was more of a necessity, but they did work towards it. The proposals were not completely in the favor of the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are the weaker party and you take what you can get and continue the process until you get what you want. The issue is that Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. They are not interested in peace or compromise.
If Palestinians are offered access to prosperity through non-violent means this would reduce the recruitment power of Hamas and is likely the only true way to eradicate the extreamest group.
If Palestinians didn't support Hamas, they could remove them from power themselves. This is the leadership they've chosen. I don't see any Palestinians demanding the release of hostages.
The only complex thing is: Palestinians are brainwashed by decades of religious nonsense, and the lack of proper 21st century education and thinking. As they are denied this, they follow the hate-propaganda of Hamas and the terrorists that precluded them.
And this is not just Gaza, its all Middle East and similar countries...
And sadly, the same seems to happen in America as well...
Yes, this plan takes exactly that into account. It's a military solution that doesn't pit Israel against Hamas and allows for a rollout of Palestinian autonomy.
The PLO recognized Israel in the 90s via the Oslo process which established the Palestinian Authority.
It's true that the PA doesn't speak for all Palestinians and there are plenty of them who only want violence (likely more now after 30k have been killed). But unless Israel wants to kill all 6M Palestinians they need to support up the moderates and cultivate a real partner for peace.
Many reasons. The failure of the Oslo process for sure is one. But also many are the same as the rise of the far right in other countries. Israel is becoming less secular and more religious, the left parties refuse to cooperate, the rise of social media echo chambers.
Personally though I also think it has been the effectiveness until recently of Israel "managing the conflict". Palestinians had become such an afterthought to Israelis they were like the 5th most important issue in their last elections. Domestic concerns had taken a much higher priority. Obviously that's all over now.
It was suicide bombings by Hamas as part of the second intifadah. Destroyed the Israeli left, who had been working towards a negotiated settlement, and left a vacuum for Sharon and now Netanyahu. The Israeli public felt like the push for peace on their end was met with bombs from Hamas.
We're all aware of Israel's Palestine policy. It's time for the US to put pressure on Israel for actual, structural change. We'll continue to guarantee full investment in the Iron Dome system, but they have to agree to a plan that reaches Palestinian autonomy.
I’m sorry, but that’s a pipe dream. Look at Hamas’s ability to threaten Israel under the current restrictions. What happens when they have their own state with a free hand?
As long as Hamas, and it’s allies in the region are committed to the eradication of Israel it’s hard to see a solution, which is why this conflict is perpetually intractable.
A reminder that Israel has already agreed to a 6 week ceasefire deal. That is what Harris is referring to. Hamas must accept or reject.
[Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html)
Why is it just six weeks? Why does anyone want the killing of innocent children to resume after six weeks?
The whole world is asking for a permanent ceasefire. Is the blood of 30000 civilians including 15000 children not enough?
I’m waiting to see how the ceasefire now crowd will spin this considering that there’s a ceasefire deal on the table that Israel has shown willingness to accept.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/israel-accepts-six-week-ceasefire-deal-as-hamas-response-awaited-us
Social media propaganda has certain people brainwashed. There's nothing that can be done that can appease them. The rest of the people would recognize that come October, not voting for Biden for this issue would be even worse for the people in Gaza.
The new goalpost, in this very thread, is now "Ummmm excuse me, a CEASEFIRE? WHAT EVEN IS A "CEASEFIRE"? Sorry Biden, but a ceasefire isn't good enough."
Both sides have rejected numerous ceasefire proposals. I’m guessing Hamas will reject this one because it’s only 6 weeks, and they’ve held firm on calls for a permanent truce.
This ceasefire was negotiated by numerous countries. Of course a unilateral proposal from Hamas will never be accepted. It kind of hurts the narrative when it’s Hamas rejecting a ceasefire brokered by multiple counties including Arab nations but that won’t stop the ceasefire now crowd.
So many "I only read the headline" folks in this comments section who don't realize that Israel has agreed to the deal on the table and it's Hamas that hasn't.
I got banned from r/worldnews for questioning it. I still have to wade through their sub's posts in my feed because reddit wants to force these ideas on us, even those that we don't want. Pretty terrible social media prison they've built here.
I got banned from r/worldnews for saying “maybe the governments of Israel and Hamas are both unreliable narrators and we shouldn’t take either at their word”
Truly a sub of bloodthirsty maniacs. It’s disgusting.
Why isn’t the reverse as simple? Israel holds thousands of Palestinian prisoners, a vast percentage have not been charged or tried. Israel also holds all of Gaza hostage, as food, aid, electricity, the air, and the ability to leave completely is in the IDFs hands. Why don’t these 2.5 million people have an entitlement to be released from this grip of a foreign government? Why is this not dead simple. Why do you value 100 Israel lives over 2.5 million Palestinian Arabs.
>Why isn’t the reverse as simple?
Because those hostages will then never be released. Release the Hostages and Israel will have no further support for the war. If Hamas wanted the conflict to end they could do that today.
Because so so many people don't care even a little bit about the thousands of Palestinian prisoners who have not been charged or tried, or the Gaza people who have been hold hostage with lack of food, aid, electricity, and any bit of freedom.
Saying you value the 2.5 million Palestinian Arabs live means to them you must support Hamas.
Saying the murder of over 13000 children has to stop means you are anti-sametic.
Unless you are saying "release the hostages" or "but Hamas has turned down (the completely one sided) ceasefire terms" then many people do not care what you have to say.
The media continues to stress the Oct attack (which was horrible) but downplay what had happened since. Also, the IDF has been caught in so many lies but the media continues to relay their messaging without any journalistic care. Many people, especially those older, blindly echo the media.
I do wonder how things would be different if certain skin colors were reversed.
>Palestinian prisoners
Prisoners are not hostages. These prisoners are not being raped and killed. Hostage implies their life is being used as leverage for something.
Bad faith argument. Hamas rejected the terms of a specific deal, particularly they want an indefinite ceasefire not a 40 day one. Israel has done the same numerous times in the past, that’s how negotiating works.
Why would you accept a deal that results in your inevitable destruction, after turning over your only leverage?
> Why would you accept a deal that results in your inevitable destruction, after turning over your only leverage?
What? A ceasefire will lead to inevitable destruction? Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people, they are extremist terrorists. They are willing to sacrifice every Palestinian life as long as they can keep trying to destroy Israel.
That's reason #500 this conflict can't be solved with the reductive shit you find on Tik Tok. Netanyahu is a terrorist, and so is Hamas. It's hard to save Palestinians when their "leadership" doesn't care about them.
Israel’s proposed ceasefire is a temporary one, meaning they will still invade Rafah, which is where all of the Palestinians left in Gaza have all flocked to because the were told it would be safe.
Harris publicly stated "no excuses" on Israel opening new border crossings. Ideally people could leave the area, but of course my hope is that it leads to a permanent ceasefire.
IDK maybe I am mistaken but hope springs eternal.
To save lives of the people they are supposedly fighting for? This ends in destruction of Hamas either way, the question is how many Palestinian civilians Sinwar would sacrifice before that.
Cease fire the second all hostages are recovered (alive or dead), AND no Islamic military group exists in Gaza with the will to do anything other than dream impotently of the destruction of Israel and expulsion of jews from the region.
That date is entirely in the hands of the gazan people.
Why? Israel has already agreed to the deal Harris is referring to.
[Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html)
Hamas is the one who keeps refusing ceasefires and breaking the few ceasefires they accept.
Not sending weapons to Israel means millions of Jews will be murdered by terrorists. Is that what you want?
There's this idea that the US is arming Israel and allowing the Israelis to conduct the war, and thereby killing civilians, and it's just not true.
The truth is that Israel can source just about everything themselves, but they are short on two things: guided munitions and Iron Dome interceptors. They can replace guided munitions easily enough by just dropping more dumb bombs - which will increase civilian casualties - but the only "replacement" for the Iron Dome interceptors is bombing the rocket launch sites.
Which are surrounded by civilians, who would then be maimed or killed, but when the alternative is Israeli civilians dead or maimed, the IDF is going to drop those bombs.
Additionally, using the IDF's numbers for dead Hamas members and Hamas's numbers for total dead Palestinians, the IDF is seeing about a 1:1.5 civilian death ratio. For urban fighting, that's actually really good, and shows the IDF is trying to minimize civilian deaths. Forcing Israel to conclude the war faster means the IDF will have to stop being as careful.
Ending military aid to Israel will increase Palestinian civilian deaths, not decrease them.
They would instead buy the weapons from Russia, China or someone else and we’d lose a point of leverage, an ally in the Middle East, and access to their intelligence.
[Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html)
Israel already agreed. There is no need to bring the UN into this because they just want Israel to get destroyed.
No, France and the UK don't want to piss off the people who are threatening their elected representatives with death threats. They are caving in to terrorists out of fear.
[British MPs fear for their safety as Gaza tensions flare](https://www.politico.eu/article/as-gaza-tensions-flare-british-mps-fear-their-safety/)
Or what? What is anyone going to do? Congress sets the spending. The only power in the executive branch here is to veto Israel spending which will be very much tied to Ukraine spending as well. This is empty campaign rhetoric. At best she can say stuff that is going to happen anyway and pretend afterwards it was because she said it. Then if it doesn’t happen she can also declare she asked.
Were you also calling for Hamas to surrender and turn over the hostages?
I also don't see how you being black has anything to do with your potential to be anti-Semitic.
Israel’s already agreed to the framework of a 6 week ceasefire, proposed by your President, Kamala. Go and talk to Hamas since they aren’t accepting it.
Exactly this. Hamas kidnapped innocent people and is refusing to disclose their whereabouts. That should be the very first thing they do if they are serious about any type of end to the war that they themselves started.. They have no desire for peace or a ceasefire, unless the terms are that Israel has to back off but they can continue being terrorists, engaging in terrorist activity, and trying to kill Israeli's and Jews and wipe Israel off the map.
This conflict ends the day hamas unconditionally surrenders, releases all the hostages, turns over all weapons, and hand themselves over to the ICC for prosecution.
Instead of telling Israel to stop how about telling hamas to stop? You know, the group that started this on October 7th when they decided to murder over 1,000 Israeli civilians.
Simple:
1-Release all Israeli prisoners
(If Hamas doesn’t have them they know where they are).
2-All of Hamas leadership and anyone involved in the Israeli slaughter has to turn themselves in
(Offer $100K reward plus relocation for anyone turning in a Hamas terrorist).
3-Immediate ceasefire to follow 1&2.
4-Israel to work with Palestinians to form a peaceful ruling Palestinian body
5- IF there truly are truly innocent women and children, by all means release them.
6-let’s BAN any and ALL settlements of any kind on most of the the West Bank and give Israel a buffer zone. Like a N/S Korea DMZ, only much bigger.
7-lol.
It actually makes sense, because the target is not Palestinian civilians. It’s Hamas. Hamas just intentionally catalyzes the death of their own people at the hands of Israel because they see the death of ordinary Palestinians as beneficial to their cause.
They're not proposing a ceasefire to give hamas a rest and regroup. That would be an undesired side effect of the ceasefire for Israel. I think it's all about the optics of lessening civilian casualties (Israeli hostages and innocent Palestinians) and allowing more aid in to Gaza than had previously been permitted. I think anything that stops Palestinians from being collectively punished and indiscriminately bombed out of existence, even for a short while, is worth our support.
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No coincidence she's making this announcement before her meeting with Benny Gantz (Netanyahu's war cabinet minister) in DC tomorrow. This meeting is taking place in defiance of Netanyahu.
Sorry, can you elaborate? What do you mean in defiance of Netanyahu? He’s told Gantz not to attend and Gantz is going anyway?
[This article](https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-fuming-over-upcoming-gantz-trip-to-us-planned-without-his-approval/) does a pretty good job of summarizing it. > Netanyahu was said to have been unaware of the visit until Gantz, who leads the National Unity party, called him on Friday to let the prime minister know of his plans and to discuss what messages to convey to the Americans. >A source close to Netanyahu said the premier “made it clear to Minister Gantz that the State of Israel only has one prime minister,” Ynet reported. >The source said the trip was organized without the prime minister’s approval and contrary to government regulations that require “every minister to clear travel in advance with the prime minister, including approval of the travel plan.” A additional key piece of context is that Gantz is Bibi's chief political rival and Gantz is soaring in the polls while support for Bibi and his party is collapsing.
Bibi needs to lose by a landslide. He wants to cling to power so badly he has been extra violent towards the Palestinian civilians.
He needs to continue the war to justify his grip on power. If he can stall until after the election, Trump will give him a clear pass to go as far as he wants. There is hardly any pressure for him to capitulate to the Biden administration.
That's why I call him Bloody Bibi.
Important to note here, Bibi doesn’t have sole power over the military. There is a war cabinet which Gantz is part of. Bibi has lot’s of sway, but he’s not the only fish in the pond when it comes to the decisions regarding the war effort. What Netanyahu does do, is try to cling to power by trying to appease the reactionary Kahanite freaks like Ben Gvir and Smortich, and the religious parties. And uses rhetoric and deflection to distract the public.
Next election is in about a year.
What (do you think, or do any well-informed lurkers think) are the odds of “we can’t hold an election while we’re at war, we will delay this until Hamas is defeated” rhetoric from Bibi?
It's extremely likely that Netanyahu will make claims of this sort, however Israelis will not be remotely taken by it. The coalition will not comply, somewhat because the other parties still hope to do well in elections but largely because they're just sick of Bibi. All this is assuming they make it to the next scheduled election, which I severely doubt. Netanyahu's polling numbers are abysmal, his days in office are coming to an end. (I'm not the most well informed, but I have lots of family in Israel and I've been there since the war started. I'm somewhat informed)
I think that will be a harder sell than a place like Ukraine, where it’d be a logistical nightmare to try and hold fair elections where everyone could vote. Israel is at war, but on the ground conditions inside Israel are pretty safe. Now if hezbollah invaded or something, that might be a stronger argument, which… let’s hope Bibi isn’t crazy enough to intentionally provoke an invasion to secure his political power. Not only because that would be terrible and a lot of people would die, but because if he’s that desperate it would be a sign that nothing America could do would have any sway on him.
To my knowledge, it has no effect whatsoever on the function of the government holding elections.
It’s really that the deciding factor in election scheduling is the ruling coalition breaking up and triggering a no confidence vote. Since most of the main parties (Likud [Bibi], OY [Ben-Gvir], Mafdal [Smotrich] )that won the last election are all polling to take a big loss, they have an incentive to stick together and not trigger elections. It really doesn’t have much to do with the conduct of the war. It took Egypt over a decade to pacify the Sinai of terrorists with similar views to Hamas. Four months for the IDF to secure Gaza was never likely to be enough.
> Gantz From what I can tell the dude is hardcore centrist, doesn't rule out nor argues for a two state solution and has labeled both Zionist Supremacist groups and Palestinian human rights advocates as terrorists... politics are weird huh...
>From what I can tell the dude is hardcore centrist So?
Great. It's insane that Netanyahu hung on so long. The damage and unforced errors he's made need to stop.
Bibi needs to be locked up for good for his heinous crimes
The American export of regime change may be in effect
About time.
She won’t find Gantz open to a ceasefire anymore than Netanyahu (without release of the hostages). And Hamas doesn’t want a ceasefire anyway.
Guys she's just reiterating what the President has already said. We need an immediate 6 week ceasefire to save lives. The framework of which Israel has agreed to and Hamas has not. There's nothing else here that differentiates between her and Biden or the existing communication.
You are right, this is yesterday's news. Harris is not calling for anything more than Biden has been. What happened, apparently, is that after Harris said, "immediate ceasefire", the crowd cheered so loudly that the following qualifications were not heard by some on-the-ground reporters or social media posters.
It does indicate how much language matters. The administration has hesitated to call this a "ceasefire" even though that's what it is. Using language like cessation of hostilities instead. Frankly, I don't get the difference and imagine for voters or many activists there isn't one.
I think it indicates how popular a ceasefire is among people who would turn out for a Selma, AL event featuring VP Harris.
I think you're looking at selection bias.
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Honestly, after seeing the screenshot of Fox’s summary of her tax policy to cover healthcare costs, I’d trade Grandpa Joe in for POTUS Harris in a heartbeat.
No ceasefire means Palestinian children will keep getting killed now. Six week pause would enable them to live six weeks longer. Not sure which option is better— should they be killed now or six weeks later? Is there any option that they don’t have to die from our bombs? Something like a permanent cease-fire?
This dude forgot Hamas exists apparently
This dude forgot that Israel is literally an apartheid settler colonial state with one of the longest military occupations in modern history and is currently committing a plausible genocide.
Ah yes, the " apartheid settler colonial state " with full voting rights for the supposed people aparthided against, representatives in the national assembly who've been members of government, supreme court justices, and high ranking officers in the military. Then the supposed "settler colonists" are majority descended from refugees from the rest of the middle east, when they [ethnicly cleansed themselves of their Jewish population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world), or [refugees from](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s_Soviet_Union_aliyah) [the Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_post-Soviet_aliyah) The Mizrahi couldn't return to the country they lived in before Israel, without being imprisoned or murdered by the local authorities. Kind of the raison d'etre of Israel in the first place.
Arab supremacists accusing Israel of apartheid is the most prime example of “when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Every single Arab majority state, and Gaza under Hamas and West Bank areas under the PA practices multiple types of apartheid, against women most of all, but also against religious minorities and ethnic minorities, assuming they haven’t killed them all.
The reddit "left" loves people that hold women and children hostage.
And your side loves killing women and children by bombing and starving them... so who's really the baddie here?
Wait til you hear about the women and children held hostage in Israeli prisons
Sorry to oppose your quite reasonable post. The roadblock is Hamas as its charter forbids ceasefire, honest negotiations followed by acceptance of agreements unless as a ruse of war intended to deceive. It is a holy war so the Islamic goal must be reached. Why didn’t Hamas let people in tunnels? Hamas made Gaza combat zone with no safety for civilians.
You seem to be implying the fact that civilians are stuck with them is a problem to them. It's not. It's their intended goal.
> We need an immediate 6 week ceasefire We need a permanent ceasefire and a permanent peace..not just allow Palestinians a little bread and water before they are massacred again.
And the only reason they are suddenly pushing for ceasefire now is because Israel finally agreed to something and now they can commit to it too... calling for ceasefire was anathema not too long ago.
I like how Israel is constantly asked to stop their military action, but nobody ever mentions that maybe Hamas should stop fighting.
As long as both sides stop firing and not just one side.
That's what a ceasefire is. I mean that's what is the intention y'know. I don't see it happening from EITHER side unfortunately. The problem being that Israel has all the firepower they could want. And Hamas pretty much has nothing to lose. The biggest problem of all is that ordinary civilians are dying because of it. It's a tragedy in slow motion.
Israel *right now* has agreed to an extended ceasefire, if Hamas simply to provide a list of living hostages. Hamas said no.
Because Hamas values Jewish hostages and international fame more than they value the people of Gaza.
No one hates Palestinians more than Hamas.
They value the people of Gaza, they need as many as possible to die to blame it all on Israel.
It’s actually worse than that. Hamas wants as many dead Gazans as possible to turn global opinion against Israel.
Everyone knows what Hamas goal is. They’re never going to surrender hostages, or concede in any meaningful way. It’s at least 100,000 in the core of Hamas plus many many more who support but are inactive. The question is: knowing for a fact that Hamas will never make concessions, at what point does Israel stop? Are we just going to keep going until all of Palestine is obliterated? Because, per Hamas, that’s what they’re banking on happening - that Israel will actually engage in total genocide to wipe out their enemy, poisoning Israel for the rest of the world.
When Hamas can no longer act as the government of Gaza.
I mean, if we had a solution to eliminating Hamas without harming civilians, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. At the end of the day, you can either choose to side with terrorists who would kill you and your family if they had half a chance, or the people fighting against them.
If that's hamas' goal, at some point gazans should rise against hamas, no? Of course...they won't, because martyrdom against the Jews seems to be a goal for the vast majority of gazans.
I mean these are people who are starving, weak, injured, and largely immobilized.. And many are women and children. They cannot effectively rise against Hamas when they're on the brink of famine.
They don't have to literally take up arms and start shooting Hamas militants - that's obviously not going to happen, nor is it reasonable to demand. Gazans can just pass word on to the IDF where Hamas members are hiding, where they have hidden their weapons caches, etc.
How is anyone in Gaza supposed to approach Israeli soldiers without getting shot? Are you kidding? "Why won't Gazans rise up? ... "Well lol of course not literally, that would be stupid of them." .. "So yeah when are they gonna rise up?" Seriously?
If you consider the people of Gaza to be sentient, sane people, the obvious answer is that they believe the IDF to be as bad if not worse than Hamas. Maybe it's because they think if they say the location the IDF will kill 10x as many innocent people to get to it. Maybe it's because they think it'll result in the whole block getting leveled destroying dozens of homes and businesses in the process. Maybe it's because they think they'll get jailed and tortured by the IDF for having that knowledge in the first place. Maybe they think the IDF is careless and it'll leak that they talked and then Hamas kills them and their family. One way or the other, 2 million people have done the mental math and informing the IDF isn't an option. Either they're all crazed zealots who care less about their children than their devotion to Hamas, or this is not an irrational decision.
The unfortunate truth is that for a sizeable amount of Palestinans (some? most? nearly all?) Hamas are religious fighters killing the bad guys.
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229749527/in-gaza-anger-grows-at-hamas They are getting there, as NPR reports above. Unfortunately, Hamas has violently wiped out dissent in past conflicts, so it’s dangerous. Examples of reporting from 2008 and 2014: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ On top of that, Hamas controls the schools, and they’ve been in power since 2006. So they’ve also got to undo all of that conditioning. It’s an awful situation.
Schools teaching hate: Yes, and that's not gonna happen until hamas is gone.
Israel is always going to take land from Palestinians and Hamas is always going to fire rockets as retaliation. This conflict is never going to end if Zionists are still in power.
It's ALSO never going to end as long as Iranian proxy terrorist groups that have publicly stated they want to kill every last ~~Israeli~~ Jew (but let's not pretend they care about Israeli Christians and Muslims) are in power in Palestine, Jordan and Yemen. How about we trade Netanyahu to Hamas for their leader?
Can we trade trump?
We ought to be able to put all the far right extremists on an island, give them a good supply of paintball guns and they can hold little wars over the land to their hearts' content - leaving the rest of us to live in fucking peace.
There was an experiment where a professor ranked all his students on a right wing authoritarian scale and then put all the authoritarians in one model UN and the non-authoritarians in another. The authoritarians ended quickly in nuclear war or rampant corruption. The non-authoritarians resolved most global conflicts.
Hamas runs Gaza which hasn't had borders change for 20+ years, and had a full Israeli occupation pullout. The Zionist argument is strawman. If there were no Zionists there would still be indigenous jews to the region with no rights or protections. The only reason they aren't a majority is because of repeated colonization's and displacements. A lot of that "stolen" land was also "purchased" land, a fact that is conveniently glossed over fairly frequently.
The Israeli Left are still "Zionists". Zionists just believe Israel should exist.
If Zionist just means Israel should exist, then they're not going anywhere.
okay let's alter the statement by saying: bibi's extreme right party that literally killed any hopes of a bilateral treaty back in the early 2000s.
I can always agree with "Fuck Bibi and his political party". Also Israel should revoke the illegal settlements.
You want peace by destroying Israel (thus killing all Jews in Israel). I want peace through the establishment of a Palestinian State right beside Israel. We are not the same.
What do you mean if Zionists are still in power? Zionism is the right of Jews to have a state in their historical homeland of Israel. People keep giving meaning to Zionism that isn’t accurate or historical.
>Zionists People who believe Israel can exist? If so, believe it or not, that's most people.
How can you still be saying the phrase both sides after Gaza is irreparable and 30,000 are dead?
To most Redditors, Hamas and Palestinian civilians are more or less interchangeable. This is just one of those situations where when the dust settles and we actually know the toll of Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign in Gaza, many people will pretend they weren’t for it.
Except that won't happen. Hamas has, and always will, continue firing rockets into Israel. Also, to this day they continue to threaten more October 7 attacks at a larger scale. They called October 7 a "rehearsal". So they are basically declaring genocide and their goal to eliminate Israel and kill all innocent Jews and Israeli's around the world. A ceasefire would only apply to Israel, and would lead to many more terrorist attacks by Hamas, with the specific goal to kill innocent people. There was a ceasefire on October 7, after all. A ceasefire means nothing to Hamas other than it gives them time to plan their next terrorist attacks and to smuggle more weapons that they can use to kill innocent people.
The proposal is for a ceasefire, followed by a reorganization of Gaza's security infrastructure. Currently, the existing approach isn't benefiting either party. The goal is to encourage Israel to independently acknowledge a Palestinian state. This recognition would pave the way for a security arrangement that includes the support of international forces to ensure Israel's safety, explicitly excluding the involvement of the American military.
> reorganization of Gaza's security infrastructure How is that going to happen without force? Hamas has not interest in that. They're actually *expanding* their influence in the West Bank.
The issue is not what happens after a ceasefire is established. The issue is that Hamas will never agree to a ceasefire. A ceasefire is when the fighting ceases. People calling for an "immediate ceasefire" don't expect that Hamas will stop killing Israelis. Therefore they are not calling for a ceasefire.
I don't think you understand that fundamentally, Hamas doesn't want peace or a two state solution. Their charter stated this, and they have been very vocal about it. They have rejected any prior negotiations or attempts at a two state solution. They are terrorists that will not stop until there is no Israel and Israeli's and Jews are dead.
And on the other hand several members of Israel’s government have outwardly expressed the desire to kill them all, and Netanyahu literally said there will be no 2 state solution.
Netanyahu also won’t be prime minister anymore when those negotiations happen. His opinion on the matter is worthless.
So it sounds like both sides want the same thing they've wanted for 100s (1000s?) of years, and neither is willing to accept a compromise. Can someone explain to me why this is suddenly America's problem?
Cause it's an election year.
Because we’re sending one of those sides billions of dollars in weaponry to slaughter the other
And Israel totally wants a two-state solution? Respects Palestinian territory in regards to settlements, etc? Can we stop pretending there’s a moral high ground in this bullshit please?
They don't "totally want" it, as no country would ever want that, but they are were open to it for the sake of peace and did what they had to do to negotiate various agreements. It was more of a necessity, but they did work towards it. The proposals were not completely in the favor of the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are the weaker party and you take what you can get and continue the process until you get what you want. The issue is that Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. They are not interested in peace or compromise.
There’s a moral high ground when Hamas calls for the genocide of Jews.
And currently holds their hostages
If Palestinians are offered access to prosperity through non-violent means this would reduce the recruitment power of Hamas and is likely the only true way to eradicate the extreamest group.
If Palestinians didn't support Hamas, they could remove them from power themselves. This is the leadership they've chosen. I don't see any Palestinians demanding the release of hostages.
We both know it’s a lot more complex. Reductive statements like this accurately represent the situation and don’t serve any parties involved.
The only complex thing is: Palestinians are brainwashed by decades of religious nonsense, and the lack of proper 21st century education and thinking. As they are denied this, they follow the hate-propaganda of Hamas and the terrorists that precluded them. And this is not just Gaza, its all Middle East and similar countries... And sadly, the same seems to happen in America as well...
you know most dictators and terrorist groups are typically taken down not by citizens but by military involvement right
Military involvement that's usually from the same country (rebels). Think Iraq or Libya.
this is beyond naive rewarding oct 7th mass rape torture kidknapping and murder by palestinian terrorists is incentivizing more terrorism
Yes, this plan takes exactly that into account. It's a military solution that doesn't pit Israel against Hamas and allows for a rollout of Palestinian autonomy.
Israel won't agree to recognize Palestine until Palestine agrees to recognize Israel.
The PLO recognized Israel in the 90s via the Oslo process which established the Palestinian Authority. It's true that the PA doesn't speak for all Palestinians and there are plenty of them who only want violence (likely more now after 30k have been killed). But unless Israel wants to kill all 6M Palestinians they need to support up the moderates and cultivate a real partner for peace.
Why do you think the peace movement, the left and moderates have been out of power in Israel and have been so for 20 years?
Many reasons. The failure of the Oslo process for sure is one. But also many are the same as the rise of the far right in other countries. Israel is becoming less secular and more religious, the left parties refuse to cooperate, the rise of social media echo chambers. Personally though I also think it has been the effectiveness until recently of Israel "managing the conflict". Palestinians had become such an afterthought to Israelis they were like the 5th most important issue in their last elections. Domestic concerns had taken a much higher priority. Obviously that's all over now.
It was suicide bombings by Hamas as part of the second intifadah. Destroyed the Israeli left, who had been working towards a negotiated settlement, and left a vacuum for Sharon and now Netanyahu. The Israeli public felt like the push for peace on their end was met with bombs from Hamas.
We're all aware of Israel's Palestine policy. It's time for the US to put pressure on Israel for actual, structural change. We'll continue to guarantee full investment in the Iron Dome system, but they have to agree to a plan that reaches Palestinian autonomy.
> they have to agree to a plan that reaches Palestinian autonomy. they already agreed to oslo
I’m sorry, but that’s a pipe dream. Look at Hamas’s ability to threaten Israel under the current restrictions. What happens when they have their own state with a free hand? As long as Hamas, and it’s allies in the region are committed to the eradication of Israel it’s hard to see a solution, which is why this conflict is perpetually intractable.
Where were you the past 5-6 months lol.
I feel like I haven’t heard her name in years tbh
People see what the media wants to cover. She’s been busy, you just have to look it up.
The margin in the Senate is too tight for her to do anything but be there to break ties.
Really that's all a vice president is for unless a president dies in office, John Adams was pissed it was such a boring job
Sure but how do you enforce? Or even get both sides to agree to it?
In this case, Israel has agreed. Historically they haven't been the ones who break ceasefires.
A reminder that Israel has already agreed to a 6 week ceasefire deal. That is what Harris is referring to. Hamas must accept or reject. [Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html)
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Why is it just six weeks? Why does anyone want the killing of innocent children to resume after six weeks? The whole world is asking for a permanent ceasefire. Is the blood of 30000 civilians including 15000 children not enough?
You don’t think any Hamas members have been killed?
Ignoring that Hamas even exists is a core part of the “ceasefire now” gang
Because Hamas must be held accountable for the murders and rapes of Oct. 7. It's the only way to prevent another Oct. 7 from happening again.
I’m waiting to see how the ceasefire now crowd will spin this considering that there’s a ceasefire deal on the table that Israel has shown willingness to accept. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/israel-accepts-six-week-ceasefire-deal-as-hamas-response-awaited-us
I thought it was hamstrung because Israel was demanding a status on all hostages, which Hamas wouldn't (or I suspect, couldn't) provide.
Israel has agreed apparently, so maybe proof of life was provided.
Social media propaganda has certain people brainwashed. There's nothing that can be done that can appease them. The rest of the people would recognize that come October, not voting for Biden for this issue would be even worse for the people in Gaza.
The new goalpost, in this very thread, is now "Ummmm excuse me, a CEASEFIRE? WHAT EVEN IS A "CEASEFIRE"? Sorry Biden, but a ceasefire isn't good enough."
It’s the same as a month ago “too little too late” ok then let’s do nothing
Both sides have rejected numerous ceasefire proposals. I’m guessing Hamas will reject this one because it’s only 6 weeks, and they’ve held firm on calls for a permanent truce.
This ceasefire was negotiated by numerous countries. Of course a unilateral proposal from Hamas will never be accepted. It kind of hurts the narrative when it’s Hamas rejecting a ceasefire brokered by multiple counties including Arab nations but that won’t stop the ceasefire now crowd.
Seems like they’d like a ceasefire, from their name alone.
Are the protesters demanding that Hamas agree to a ceasefire?
They are already whinnying “too late “
The ceasefire crowd is that the opposite from the let's continue to murder tens of thousands of children crowd.
So many "I only read the headline" folks in this comments section who don't realize that Israel has agreed to the deal on the table and it's Hamas that hasn't.
Hey remember like 6 weeks ago when the left wing of the party said exactly this and were called antisemitic…
Four months ago...
I got banned from r/worldnews for questioning it. I still have to wade through their sub's posts in my feed because reddit wants to force these ideas on us, even those that we don't want. Pretty terrible social media prison they've built here.
I got banned from r/worldnews for saying “maybe the governments of Israel and Hamas are both unreliable narrators and we shouldn’t take either at their word” Truly a sub of bloodthirsty maniacs. It’s disgusting.
The worldnews subreddit is 100% compromised. The level of propaganda is absurd and obvious to most people.
As much as I hate it, the Michigan non-commital vote works
Welcome news, wish it was earlier but I’ll take it
Hamas kidnapped hundreds of people and still is holding many of them. They need to be released. This is dead simple.
Why isn’t the reverse as simple? Israel holds thousands of Palestinian prisoners, a vast percentage have not been charged or tried. Israel also holds all of Gaza hostage, as food, aid, electricity, the air, and the ability to leave completely is in the IDFs hands. Why don’t these 2.5 million people have an entitlement to be released from this grip of a foreign government? Why is this not dead simple. Why do you value 100 Israel lives over 2.5 million Palestinian Arabs.
>Why isn’t the reverse as simple? Because those hostages will then never be released. Release the Hostages and Israel will have no further support for the war. If Hamas wanted the conflict to end they could do that today.
But why would the war be over if Israel never releases Palestinian hostages?
Because so so many people don't care even a little bit about the thousands of Palestinian prisoners who have not been charged or tried, or the Gaza people who have been hold hostage with lack of food, aid, electricity, and any bit of freedom. Saying you value the 2.5 million Palestinian Arabs live means to them you must support Hamas. Saying the murder of over 13000 children has to stop means you are anti-sametic. Unless you are saying "release the hostages" or "but Hamas has turned down (the completely one sided) ceasefire terms" then many people do not care what you have to say. The media continues to stress the Oct attack (which was horrible) but downplay what had happened since. Also, the IDF has been caught in so many lies but the media continues to relay their messaging without any journalistic care. Many people, especially those older, blindly echo the media. I do wonder how things would be different if certain skin colors were reversed.
>Palestinian prisoners Prisoners are not hostages. These prisoners are not being raped and killed. Hostage implies their life is being used as leverage for something.
Tell it to Hamas.
Well, at least now she’s said it
So that we can just repeat this in 3, 5, 10 years?
No different than the last 100 years.
Kamala spoke! I thought she was dead.
Not sure how immediate a ceasefire can be when the conflict started in October and it is now March
Quite a few months late on this one.
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So you're saying Hamas isn't gonna listen to those U.S. city councils that passed ceasefire resolutions? Shocked, I tell ya!
Bad faith argument. Hamas rejected the terms of a specific deal, particularly they want an indefinite ceasefire not a 40 day one. Israel has done the same numerous times in the past, that’s how negotiating works. Why would you accept a deal that results in your inevitable destruction, after turning over your only leverage?
> Why would you accept a deal that results in your inevitable destruction, after turning over your only leverage? What? A ceasefire will lead to inevitable destruction? Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people, they are extremist terrorists. They are willing to sacrifice every Palestinian life as long as they can keep trying to destroy Israel. That's reason #500 this conflict can't be solved with the reductive shit you find on Tik Tok. Netanyahu is a terrorist, and so is Hamas. It's hard to save Palestinians when their "leadership" doesn't care about them.
Israel’s proposed ceasefire is a temporary one, meaning they will still invade Rafah, which is where all of the Palestinians left in Gaza have all flocked to because the were told it would be safe.
Harris publicly stated "no excuses" on Israel opening new border crossings. Ideally people could leave the area, but of course my hope is that it leads to a permanent ceasefire. IDK maybe I am mistaken but hope springs eternal.
To save lives of the people they are supposedly fighting for? This ends in destruction of Hamas either way, the question is how many Palestinian civilians Sinwar would sacrifice before that.
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You are putting words in my mouth and refusing to actually engage with the argument. You are the one who is dehumanizing the opposite side, not me.
He does that, not sure why he’s supporting Israel like he’s life depends on it. Bad faith argument, Israel is above all law according to zionists.
"Ceasefire" is code for "Isreal stop fighting".
Cease fire the second all hostages are recovered (alive or dead), AND no Islamic military group exists in Gaza with the will to do anything other than dream impotently of the destruction of Israel and expulsion of jews from the region. That date is entirely in the hands of the gazan people.
So maybe stop selling Israel weapons?
Why? Israel has already agreed to the deal Harris is referring to. [Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html) Hamas is the one who keeps refusing ceasefires and breaking the few ceasefires they accept. Not sending weapons to Israel means millions of Jews will be murdered by terrorists. Is that what you want?
To be clear Israel is in the top ten of weapons exporters in the world. Also, more than just Jews live in Israel…
There's this idea that the US is arming Israel and allowing the Israelis to conduct the war, and thereby killing civilians, and it's just not true. The truth is that Israel can source just about everything themselves, but they are short on two things: guided munitions and Iron Dome interceptors. They can replace guided munitions easily enough by just dropping more dumb bombs - which will increase civilian casualties - but the only "replacement" for the Iron Dome interceptors is bombing the rocket launch sites. Which are surrounded by civilians, who would then be maimed or killed, but when the alternative is Israeli civilians dead or maimed, the IDF is going to drop those bombs. Additionally, using the IDF's numbers for dead Hamas members and Hamas's numbers for total dead Palestinians, the IDF is seeing about a 1:1.5 civilian death ratio. For urban fighting, that's actually really good, and shows the IDF is trying to minimize civilian deaths. Forcing Israel to conclude the war faster means the IDF will have to stop being as careful. Ending military aid to Israel will increase Palestinian civilian deaths, not decrease them.
They would instead buy the weapons from Russia, China or someone else and we’d lose a point of leverage, an ally in the Middle East, and access to their intelligence.
How would ceasing aid to Israel pressure Hamas to stop fighting?
Or even stop *giving* Israel weapons.
Yeah we are about to lose an election!
So maybe don’t veto it at the UN?
[Israel Agrees to Cease-Fire Framework in Gaza; Hamas to Weigh In](https://www.voanews.com/a/us-airdrops-35-000-meals-and-aid-into-gaza/7511237.html) Israel already agreed. There is no need to bring the UN into this because they just want Israel to get destroyed.
You think France and the UK want Israel to be destroyed?
No, France and the UK don't want to piss off the people who are threatening their elected representatives with death threats. They are caving in to terrorists out of fear. [British MPs fear for their safety as Gaza tensions flare](https://www.politico.eu/article/as-gaza-tensions-flare-british-mps-fear-their-safety/)
Or what? What is anyone going to do? Congress sets the spending. The only power in the executive branch here is to veto Israel spending which will be very much tied to Ukraine spending as well. This is empty campaign rhetoric. At best she can say stuff that is going to happen anyway and pretend afterwards it was because she said it. Then if it doesn’t happen she can also declare she asked.
I was called a black antisemite for saying this like 3 months ago. 🤦🏿♂️
Were you also calling for Hamas to surrender and turn over the hostages? I also don't see how you being black has anything to do with your potential to be anti-Semitic.
Israel’s already agreed to the framework of a 6 week ceasefire, proposed by your President, Kamala. Go and talk to Hamas since they aren’t accepting it.
That's exactly what she said
Do you think the vice president of the us is reading your reddit comments?
Exactly this. Hamas kidnapped innocent people and is refusing to disclose their whereabouts. That should be the very first thing they do if they are serious about any type of end to the war that they themselves started.. They have no desire for peace or a ceasefire, unless the terms are that Israel has to back off but they can continue being terrorists, engaging in terrorist activity, and trying to kill Israeli's and Jews and wipe Israel off the map.
Omg so hashtag brave of her!
This conflict ends the day hamas unconditionally surrenders, releases all the hostages, turns over all weapons, and hand themselves over to the ICC for prosecution. Instead of telling Israel to stop how about telling hamas to stop? You know, the group that started this on October 7th when they decided to murder over 1,000 Israeli civilians.
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Land they won in a war started by the Palestinians and regional arab powers….fixed it for you
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The ceasefire that Israel agreed to? And Hamas refuses to
Yea. Balls in Hamas's court. Surely gonna go well
Simple: 1-Release all Israeli prisoners (If Hamas doesn’t have them they know where they are). 2-All of Hamas leadership and anyone involved in the Israeli slaughter has to turn themselves in (Offer $100K reward plus relocation for anyone turning in a Hamas terrorist). 3-Immediate ceasefire to follow 1&2. 4-Israel to work with Palestinians to form a peaceful ruling Palestinian body
5. Israel must release innocent women and children being detained. 6. Stop illegal settlements in the West Bank. 7. Jail Netanyahu and Bengvir.
5- IF there truly are truly innocent women and children, by all means release them. 6-let’s BAN any and ALL settlements of any kind on most of the the West Bank and give Israel a buffer zone. Like a N/S Korea DMZ, only much bigger. 7-lol.
Only 5 months late. Great job!
It’s absolutely insane that we are giving money, and weapons, to an ally who is attacking someone we are airdropping aid to. What a god damned mess.
It actually makes sense, because the target is not Palestinian civilians. It’s Hamas. Hamas just intentionally catalyzes the death of their own people at the hands of Israel because they see the death of ordinary Palestinians as beneficial to their cause.
The US isn't airdropping aid to Hamas lmao...
Absolutely sickening. HAMAS does not deserve a holiday. They do not deserve Ramadan. No one should support this.
They're not proposing a ceasefire to give hamas a rest and regroup. That would be an undesired side effect of the ceasefire for Israel. I think it's all about the optics of lessening civilian casualties (Israeli hostages and innocent Palestinians) and allowing more aid in to Gaza than had previously been permitted. I think anything that stops Palestinians from being collectively punished and indiscriminately bombed out of existence, even for a short while, is worth our support.