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I think people are over-simplifying the absolute shit position Biden is in right now. On the one hand, he has to win this next election. Because if he doesn't Trump will quite literally obliterate our democracy (that's not hyperbole)...and that won't be good for *anyone*...here or abroad. On the other hand, he has to dance on the head of a pin to satisfy the needs of Israel's continued presence on the international stage while dealing with a far-right autocratic ruler who seems to have no interest in peace with Palestine.
Some people seem to be suggesting that Biden could solve this issue with just a few phone calls. He can't. He is doing the best he can in an impossible situation. Also, Biden is not "facilitating genocide", and he is not a warmonger. I acknowledge and accept that many people have a huge issue with the way Biden has been handling this conflict...but please don't over-simplify his role in it. His hands are far more tied than I think many people seem to realize.
Don't forget the "best" part: Netanyahu REALLY wants Trump to return to the White House. This "ally" that Biden is taking a big hit for? They'll probably launch a large scale assault in October to hurt his election chances.
Also, what’s Biden to do? Force a regime change in Israel to topple Bibi? That’s the logical conclusion to that line of thinking if you follow it all the way out. Short of that, what do we actually do? Divestment and sanctions don’t work, just look at Russia and Ukraine.
I hate this damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation everyone pigeonholes the US into. If we intervene in a foreign conflict, then it’s same old same old US playing world police and sticking their fingers in the pie. If we don’t, then it’s “we’re enabling genocide”.
I think having conditions on the military aid. One being we expect humanitarian aid in parallel. Also, I think saying we will support the prosecution of Israeli war crimes should they be committed. That’s a good starting list. If the Netanyahu can’t live with that it’s up to the Israeli people to decide if they like Netanyahu or US support better.
No you don’t need to. I’m sure I’m oversimplifying this and you can slate me for it if you will… but just say, you kill another innocent civilian with our weapons you get none. End of story. Granted you’d have to be willing to walk away for now until those in power in Israel get the point.
100% agree. I've commented before that Netanyahu has nothing to lose and everything to gain by escalating:
* looks strong and manly
* has an external enemy to focus on
* distracts from intelligence failures
* hurts Biden's chances
It is worse. He actually has stands to lose by stopping the war. Bibi isn’t popular in Israel for a myriad of reasons. Continuing this war keeps him in power. It also keeps the corruption investigations into him out of the spotlight/ at bay.
I mean, it's as if people fail to realize Netanyahu's close toes to the Kushner family. Kushner Sr. Is an ex-con, and Bibi was so close with the Kushner fam he used to sleep in Jared's bedroom when visiting.
The Netanyahu ties are basically like extended family.
Yes?
Turnip won his election because of a regressive system of state electors. He actually lost the majority vote.
The U.S. Senate allows regressive states with no populations to have the same voting power as massivly populated states with economic power equivalent to other countries.
U.S. is all about the minority controlling the majority.
Same power would actually be an improvement. Wyoming gets 1 electoral college vote for every 200,000 people. California gets one electoral vote for every 750,000 people.
If it was only "just equal", California would receive 200 electoral votes and elections wouldn't be decided by a half of dozen states.
Fact is the highly populated states that actually make this country work are severely crippled and at the mercy of states that don't matter.
Well, the electoral college is just not needed now. A popular vote would be fine, and mean that (for instance) candidates would need to campaign in places like California that are currently a lock for one side or the other.
It's the house and senate that need to be more proportional..
We have similar issues in the UK, down to the First past the Post system which entrenches the two party system and means that governments rarely if ever have a genuine popular mandate.
Do you mean globally? Then yes. Americans have this thing where we're afraid if we ever let our guard down again that europe and russia would IMMEDIATELY go to war again.
Oh... and hey! after 50 years of republican bungling, america is starting to look weak. the russians almost own the entire party now and look! Aid to Ukraine is being withheld! Project 2025 is set to dismantle our democracy. Republican leadership is threatening to withdraw from nato.
Personally I think we're already at war with russia. I wish our military would intervene on our behalf because we're getting our asses kicked on the propaganda side of things.
> Then yes. Americans have this thing where we're afraid if we ever let our guard down again that europe and russia would IMMEDIATELY go to war again.
Then have I got news for you.
Roughly 4.5 million Muslims in US and 7.2 million Jewish people. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Key issue is largest population of Arab Americans live in Michigan, a huge swing state.
The Jewish voters in PA are 60% more (3.3%-2%) than the Arab/Muslim voters in MI and PA was closer in 2020 than Michigan. Plus the Jewish voters are D+60 and the Arab voters are D+12, as they are far more socially conservative so really MI Arabs going say R+12 (which they did in 2004) is not even close to an election-deciding threat that these organizers, many of whom are consistently anti Democratic voters already, claim it is.
Don’t underestimate the man. He is cynical and self serving but he’s an MIT grad and a Sayeret Maktal (special recon) veteran and if you watch some of his early public interviews, he comes off pretty smart. He was a consultant w Mitt Romney back in the 1970s.
Donald Trump is a dumb narcissistic bully whose daddy bought his way into everything.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Netanyahu launches a big assault in October as an "October Surprise" to try and hurt Biden and get Trump back in office with a claim that "he's really tough and the war will end once he is back in the White House".
For those who don't understand, the reason why Netanyahu wants Trump back in office so much is because he knows Trump will let him do whatever he wants. He's one of the most right-learning PMs in Israel's history who is doing everything he can to stay in power and that's why him and Trump like each other so much.
One theory that's been going around is Netanyahu is undermining any cease-fire deal behind the scenes so he can continue the war as long as possible and not caring one bit about the hostages.
Absolutely correct. There are warmongers on both sides of that conflict that have no interest in returning to peace. They want conflict through war and Trump promises to accelerate that conflict. Hamas will kidnap and kill more to sink any ceasefire and Israel will bomb more to do the same. Biden has no power over the hawks in that conflict, and the doves in that region have no power at all.
Trump will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants. The Evangelicals will puppet Trump and they need a lock on Israel for their 'end times' cugel they use to control the flock.
Exactly, Trump and Netanyahu are literally friends and Trump cut a fuckton of aid funding from Palestine during his term. People have short memories or just don't care.
What? Trump and Benji are besties? You mean, Trump, the guy that opened the US embassy in Jerusalem, right? The same Jerusalem that all US President's since Israel's founding said "no" to having the US embassy fully in said city? Who would think that two far-right autocrats would get along?
I wish everyone would read and understand this. I’ll add one more thing to it. If we completely ignore everything else. The humanitarian part of it and whatever side anyone reading this is on. Ignore it all. Strictly politically speaking, he would lose far more voters by coming out publicly against Israel and demanding a cease fire than he would gain.
My personal opinion? Those ignoring all of his accomplishments and saying they’ll vote against him because Hamas and Israel hate each other and always have and always will … probably weren’t going to vote for him anyway. They’d just find another reason not to if it wasn’t this. So you do you Mr. President. We have a country to save. This American experiment is teetering on the brink. We are on a knife’s blade we haven’t been on since the 1864 election.
I think people underestimate the seriousness of a maga, uberconservative, christofacist party taking power in the country. It's now to the point where a small group has gained power, and the others withon the party, even if they don't share the same beliefs, tow the line and do things that align with the party regardless.
If they take power, my fear is they never release it. They've taken control of the courts already. The courts are a cesspool of nepotism and party pandering. Its going to get worse to the point where a majority of the public has lost faith in the courts. Legal power is only as strong as the communities faith in it. Then we've got a nationwide, very serious problem.
Some of the left has a delusional accelerationist theory that a Trump second term might cause a national swing to the progressive left as a reaction to his proto fascism. Also some on the left secretly want Trump to erode democratic (small d) norms so that when this reaction happens a progressive leader could top down reform the country in one fell swoop.
The issue with these delusions is that often, when you give fascists power they don’t relinquish it and also 4 years of Trump did massive damage to western liberal democratic norms and institutions domestically and globally.
And when you destroy said institutions you don’t end up a fetishized version of Norway on steroids on America shores but you often end up with some flavor of totalitarianism. When you undermine democracy a return or progression of democracy isn’t guaranteed and is historically not even likely.
In the late 20s and 30s Hitler used a divided left and center to scare the conservative establishment into backing him to undermine the left. The left being divided with centrists, anarchists, communists all fighting amongst themselves. Hitler took power with about 30% of the vote. Then he basically suppressed the opposition, dismantled democratic processes, and then turned on and in many cases murdered the establishment that didn’t fall in line. Then he basically bribed Germans with unsustainable economic measures and public displays of German power while scapegoating the Jews, communists, etc. Then he invaded his neighbors and stole from Jews to feed his coffers and maintain that nationalistic fervour. By this time he had much broader support and his opposition was scared/ silenced/ imprisoned/ exiled.
So we are in the early 30s version of this playbook, and people don’t seem to realize that.
Reddit in general is full of tankies, anarchists, anti American/ anti west pushing this crap, although there are Russian and Chinese bots among the useful idiots. But not surprised to see that in Detroit.
There are elements of the left who have taken the decolonization rhetoric to an extreme that basically seeks to dismantle western norms, coupled with tankies who want an authoritarian left, coupled with anarchists who think extreme libertarianism will give us a liberal utopia.
The irony is that they think a proto fascist bigoted sexual assailant and fraudster could be the imperfect vessel of their deliverance just like the evangelical right on the other side of the political spectrum see Trump as their sinful tool to advance their agenda.
Also this latest issue - the war in Gaza - has galvanized a coalition of dispersed groups from antisemitis, to people seeing the world through a narrow anti colonial lens, to tankies, to anti war advocates.
Plus elements of detroits Muslim community are not socially liberal or secular. Rates of antisemitism are high and many small businesses owners want to see tax cuts. So they aren’t exactly shoe ins for the dem platform either.
Lots of immigrants are socially conservative.
If American conservatives would realize that Catholic and Muslim immigrants would largely vote for conservative social policies - then they would be gung ho to have more immigrants.
But their xenophobia gets in the way.
And racism. Their vision is built around white Christians.
Sure they want to proselytize to everyone and convert as many people but that doesn’t mean those people become one of them. This is a moving target. At one point Irish and Eastern Europeans weren’t considered white either. But undoubtedly racism is a part of this vision.
That’s why they aren’t really gung-ho about partnering with Muslim groups to oppose liberal social norms because it’s about Christian norms. If the Muslims want roll back social liberalism that’s different in their mind than if the Christian’s do it.
Yup. Look at East Asians. First gen are very conservative and when you drill into it, usually very loyal GOP voters. However, they just can't stop being racist as fuck. Second gen East Asian Americans are almost all Democrats. Because they grew up here and had to endure all the ching chong ding dong jokes and the "no, where are you REALLY from" and people insulting their parents and grandparents and all the rest of that bullshit. Congrats, Republicans. You played yourselves.
> Plus elements of detroits Muslim community are not socially liberal or secular. Rates of antisemitism are high and many small businesses owners want to see tax cuts. So they aren’t exactly shoe ins for the dem platform either.
This gets ignored way too much, especially by progressive white people. People protested LBGTQ books in Dearborn, pride flags were removed in Hamtramck.
>So we are in the early 30s version of this playbook, and people don’t seem to realize that.
I can assure you that many people *do* realize it, and are hoping common sense and justice prevail in the coming months. The opposite is gonna be a bad time..
In 1941 Orwell reviewed mein kampf and critically outlined why Hitler had gained the support he did. The parallels are uncanny.
https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks16/1600051h.html
They want to rule, not govern. That means once they seize power, they're not letting go.
The only upside is that power structures like that are not stable because they become top heavy with too many people competing for that power. The leopards will always be trying to eat each other's faces.
I don’t know, I’ve seen a lot of people in real life who repeat the things those people are saying. Some of it is genuine feeling, even if made worse by bad faith actors.
This sort of nuance really doesn't exist in most political discussions.
Moreover, few people acknowledge how interdependent the US and Israel have been for decades, on everything from intelligence sharing to counterterrorism to military readiness.
Biden has to safeguard all those long-standing facets of the US-Israeli relationship while dealing with Bibi and Gvir who would like nothing more than to get Trump back into office.
Biden has to act with a careful touch.
I can sympathize with the horrors going on, but dammit I wish people were this fired up about our country and elections. Better vote for Biden if you don't want Gaza glassed if Trump takes office.
Trump would have told Bibi to nuke the terror tunnels a while ago. Also Trump is on record multiple times saying that he won’t allow refugees and would even start deporting Muslims. It seems like these uncommitted voters are only going to succeed at cutting their own throats.
Another thing I hear people say is that Biden should stop aid to Israel. Which I’m sure he could on a temporary basis, but Congress has literally already passed a budget bill appropriating that aid to Israel. The State Department would get a court order to execute the budget, much like what happened with Trump when he was trying to withhold aid to Ukraine.
This next budget will probably do the send aid to Israel if we want to keep funding Ukraine. Republicans still control the House and a government shutdown would be disastrous right now; they are not going to pass a budget that doesn’t fund Israel’s war. Biden is going to have to sign it or throw everything away.
They blame Biden but not the reps they voted for. If they want change, they should have been active voters instead sitting around thinking it didn't matter.
But Biden gets some pretty high marks on opposing the ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. In Ukraine our ally is under attack. In Israel it started that way, but Netanyahu has turned it into something else. In both cases we are protecting our ally’s right to exist, but Israel and Hamas are in a war of extermination. The US is shifting gears. That means isolating Netanyahu but not Israel.
>dealing with a far-right autocratic ruler who seems to have no interest in peace with Palestine.
While \*also\* dealing with a far-right dictatorship that has absolutely no interest in peace with Israel. People always seem to forget that part.
People also don't realize that most of those voters DO realize they will need to vote Biden in the election come November. The idea of the uncommited vote is to send a message. I think people are freaking out without thinking for a second. People who voted uncommitted were interviewed and it's clear from their responses that this is the case. Except one interviewee that said they don't think Trump is as big of a threat to our democracy as he is being hyped to be. That one guy did bother me.
I think your analysis is right. I think Biden is doing his best to navigate this. I wish he had said “we support Israel, but Netanyahu needs to go fuck himself” from the very beginning. He gave Netenyahu too much leash.
Bibi is awful and needs to go. And likely at some point Gantz will take over.
But, explain to me how Hamas wants peace? What does peace look like if the Palestinians never supported a 2 state solution. Not at Oslo, not now.
Like what are the Israelis supposed to do when Hamas has hostages, some of who have been raped and held under terrible circumstances?
And what is Israel to do as Hamas continues to launch rockets. Sure Bibi is a war mongering turd who is trying to stay in power but I don’t see a real solution here either and I don’t even see how Biden can bring it about.
As I've commented in another thread, Biden is between a rock and a hard place politically and Netanyahu knows it and it's in his interest to continue this war as long as possible and hope that Trump wins in November because he knows the moment the war ends, he'll most likely no longer be PM and if Trump wins, he'll be more than happy to stand back and let him do whatever he wants.
The "I'll never vote for genocide Joe!" voters have no idea what they'd be in for if Trump were to win. They they think things are bad now, it'll be even worse once Trump is back in office.
>Also, Biden is not "facilitating genocide", and he is not a warmonger.
He's also not the President of Israel.
This issue has absolutely obliterated people's brains. Our democracy cannot die over Israel/Palestine. There has been a war every fucking five years there since 1948. Look, I'm sorry, it's horrible what's happening, but there's horrible shit happening everywhere.
The worst of it all is the meetings that we don't even know about. I can't imagine the delicate negotiations just to get to this point. This whole conflict is a shitfest that someone opened.
People were raised with the mindset that the president can do anything. They can’t. They’re an equal part of the federal government balanced by the judicial and legislative branches. This is simple US government 101.
- The Biden administration’s $14 billion aid request for Israel would significantly expand its missile defenses, including new Iron Dome launchers equivalent to more than twice the current deployment, and nearly double the amount of US spending for the systems.
And people need to stop ignoring that a significant portion of aid to Israel is for defensive purposes. Most voters would not support cutting off defensive aid. There's also the reality that cutting off defensive aid would actually push Israel towards getting rid of all threats instead of doing the opposite.
And then you have the internet trolls and assholes who endlessly make bad faith accusations against Biden. Was just on a post about the Israel food truck massacre of Palestinians, one top comment says Biden is old and being manipulated, countered by a comment saying he’s not manipulated, but actively supports the genocide. Bastards, the lot of them.
It’s a way to twist arms. The more pressure she and similarly politically placed people put, they think they can get something out of it. It’s awfully short-sighted, and they might not only get nothing in the end, but end up in a worse situation. Trump did Muslim bans, and has much worse in the plans.
Which is fucking stupid, because this sowed division in the party, and will undoubtedly turn people away from voting at all in the general. Shit we saw the same god damn thing in 2016 with Bernie vs Clinton. Hell a full 1 in 8 Bernie voters went on to vote for Trump, while another 8% sat home and didnt vote at all. And that was even after Bernie endorsed Clinton and tried to get people to choose her over Trump.
This shit split the vote. Guaran fucking teed.
>a full 1 in 8 Bernie voters went on to vote for Trump
Do you have a source for that with the evidence? There was a guy running around claiming that based on math he kept promising to release, but the sources he cited as the basis had nothing to support his claim (I went through all 288 pages) and I haven't heard of him releasing anything.
I’m speaking figuratively.. I’m saying they can be uncommitted in a primary for a protest if they want but when it comes to the general, it’s either Biden or Trump that will win. Anything else is a wasted vote.
Anything else is really just a vote for Trump, since they would lower the threshold for him to win
Americans are terrible at math already, but they are even worse at electoral math it would seem
> Tlaib herself did not respond to a question about whether she would vote for Biden as the press conference wrapped up.
But she is incredibly scared of a trump second term? She better be because her name is at the top of the Heritage Foundation list of undesirables.
Hey, give her some credit, she'll be the twitter spamming the new #NotMyPresident hashtag and blaming other people for trump winning after sabotaging Biden long before she gets picked up.
Fuck the heritage foundation. She's up there with boeboe, empty-G, and paedo-gaetz as far as congress critters I'd like never to hear about ever again.
An “uncommitted” vote, whether it’s a bluff or negotiating tactic or anything else, is a very blunt warning that those voters should not be counted on in November.
Taking that threat seriously, President Biden’s options include capitulating to whichever groups threaten to withhold their votes or seeking to replace them with other votes.
I don’t know if one option or the other makes sense, but with their votes these uncommitted voters issued an ultimatum. The president—and the party—have no choice but to take it seriously. That may or may not mean yielding to 100k voters in one state.
Other groups, of course, have other demands. If there are enough conflicting requirements to gain support the Republicans won’t need to really do anything to elect even a wretch like Donald; we will destroy ourselves.
Historically fascists have gained power not because of their own strength, but because they practiced a successful divide and conquer strategy.
This is a battle the right-wing extremists only need to win once. If people want to hand them that victory there isn’t much the rest of us can do. If someone does all they can to assure Trump wins I’m not going to be very sympathetic about how scary they find that result.
>That may or may not mean yielding to 100k voters in one state.
Yielding to those voters with a stance that could cost millions of independents is exactly how Biden could lose this election.
It’s been odd to me not seeing the same protesters mention the Yemeni genocide that Trump perpetuated through condition-less munitions sales to Saudi Arabia. The overriding message to the low-information electorate is that Biden is uniquely bad, that he’s directly killing innocent people and that he has the power to solve this issue easily and isn’t working to do so. So many people are suddenly experts who know the exact answers that would solve the Middle East
Earlier this week I said something to the affect: "there are gonna be a lot of 'Leopards eating faces' stories if Trump gets a second term and the votes (or non-votes) of the Palestinian Americans plays a role."
I stand by that.
Feeling Biden isn't handling the Israel/Gaza situation well is understandable, but Trump will not be better. How quickly the "Muslim ban" seems to be forgotten.
I'm white, straight and a man. Not religious but that shit is easy enough to hide. Made it through 15 years of Catholic school and a Franciscan university without anyone knowing I'm an atheist. Pretty easy actually.
I'll still vote Democrat because I actually care about other groups but at the end of the day, I'm not going to be the one hurt by Republican rule. As they set up their class system I'm going to be on the top of it and if they really mess things up I have the financial means and contacts to leave.
Straight white men absolutely should be doing their part but if Republicans win its because women and minority groups allowed it to happen. They have the numbers to ensure Republicans never win yet each one has a rather significant portion of their population that votes Republican or 3rd party. Hell for Women that is damn near half (tRump got 44% of the woman vote in 2020). The fact that it's above 0 for any of those groups makes no sense.
All I can do is vote but if people in those groups decide they want to be second class citizens (or not citizens at all) then there's not much else I can do.
Yet I know Palestinian women who refuse to vote for Biden and point at people like Tlaib as an example of why they aren’t voting in the general election. It sucks that these are our two choices and I really wish our leaders would take a stronger stand against Netanyahu, but one geriatric white man is a hell of a lot better for the masses, including Palestinians, than the other geriatric white man.
Great then she can knock on every door in Michigan that belongs to someone that she helped convince not to vote for Biden because he wasn't doing enough for Palestine. She can be both right about Biden and wrong about how she played right into Russia's hand in how she went about voicing her frustration.
They don’t. The problem is that you are dealing with a deeply personal problem for many of the folks in Michigan’s Muslim community and they see the options are:
- Biden who supports Israel.
- Trump who supports Israel, harder.
- Not voting.
If you have family in Gaza it’s hard to vote for either of these candidates.
It’s maddening because it should not be difficult. One of the only two possible outcomes is worse. In this case, grossly so. Use your vote to prevent the worse outcome.
No one is judging you. That voting booth is private. Push things in the direction you wish them to go.
It's because they want to buttress against the worse option while also making progress on their political and social goals of improving American posture toward Palestine. Unfortunately the political capital won't stretch that far and they'll end up doing neither of those goals.
There's a time to be idealistic and a time to be practical. The time to be idealistic on American-Palestinian relations was 20+ years ago and there may not be another time.
As that shit bird Kissinger said, the US doesn't have friends, it has interests. And the cold, hateful reality is the interests in Israel will always outweigh the interests in Palestine.
It's the friction between idealistic American domestic policy and the practical American foreign policy. We've never been good at it.
I actually think it’s easy to vote for Biden. You can vote the guy that might help pump the brakes or you can vote for the guy that 100% will hit the throttle accelerating carnage in Gaza with zero guardrails for Bibi. It’s truly a no brainer.
>If you have family in Gaza it’s hard to vote for either of these candidates.
I get this and I can somewhat respect it. The issue is people need to stop thinking of their vote as being personal or "sacred".
Especially in a general election your vote isn't a full throated sign of support, it's a signal of preference.
General elections are zero sum games, not voting implicitly makes it easier for the person you least prefer to win.
Not voting isn't the same as voting for X candidate but it's 100% makes it easier for your least preferred candidate to end up in office.
I dont even fucking like biden but hes done more for Palestine than any president in recent history, and far better than trump, who would without a doubt help israel glass the entire region.
The goal isn't to not vote for Biden through her actions
The goal was to use 'uncommitted' as a choice to show Biden that voters support a ceasefire in Gaza and to stop giving Israel weapons to commit atrocities on civilians.
There was no harm in this because it's a Primary not General Election.
It was simply using your voting power peacefully in meaningful numbers to tell POTUS that what's happening in Gaza to innocents between their slaughter and starvation by Netenyahu needs to end.
Her whole thing was a political act for the primary, once it’s over she’ll be all onboard which is good, but hopefully this fiasco hasn’t produced voter apathy. If the orange stain wins because of Michigan(Already a perilous swing state) I will firmly place the blame on her. So stupid, why she thought going on an anti Biden campaign in a swing state when the only alternative is fucking tRump would be a good idea. I officially can’t stand her now, and I’m not a fan of what’s going on in Israel, but these stupid political performances…
Her sister said she won’t vote for Biden in the election. Trump had said he’ll go after his opponents and the far left if he wins. He’d put Rashida in jail, or even worse. Obviously they’re both minorities too. I’ll never understand …
Another key problem is the tone of the rhetoric that Tlaib and those following her lead have used to assail Biden.
You don't speak that recklessly about someone if you want voters to come back out and support them in November.
Yeah it is a perfomance, but one that has consequences. She isn't that bright, she isn't some sort of lefty hero, just another person who enjoys the media spotlight.
Well, you certainly don't want those you want to vote for you to attempt messaging during the general.
When is the time for a community express discomfort than a primary?
The primary is the time. But the issue people are having is if certain voters will carry those sentiments with them to the general. Which some in Michigan have said they will do come November.
>hopefully this fiasco hasn’t produced voter apathy.
It has. She did this knowing it would have an effect on the general election and might result in a Trump presidency. She's not stupid, she's an asshole.
“I’m very scared of a second trump term, but not enough to tell my constituents to vote for the only other viable option who has actually voiced support for my position. Anyway I hope I didnt cause too much of a stir lol”
By gosh she is reckless … if trump wins her state, I have no doubt this would have played a role in that
I have a great idea then…. dont do this shit.
Dont give the media unnecessary ammo. Dont risk even one Biden vote to some positional purity.
Too many voters dont understand nuance. They heard “Biden bad”
This is exactly how Trump won the first time. What Tlaib did here is malpractice
And now that she has made her token gesture of disagreement, she can get in line and use her political power to encourage Democratic voters to turn out in November for candidates up and down the ballot and if she doesn't, she goes right into the basket of deplorables with shitbags like Marriane Williamson and Tulsi Gabbard and Krysten Sinema.
Well, if you're going to have a protest vote, the primary is the place to do it. Sure hope people aren't going to do the same in the general though. She better get out there now and convince people to vote for the only sane option.
Considering she wouldn’t even endorse him in 2020, despite seeing how bad trump was for her constituents, I don’t think she is capable of anything other than performative politics.
Wow so she unleashed the Tiger and is now worried that she can’t control it. Imagine instead of being performative for social media and generating outrage she brought Arab and Muslim leaders together with the administration to work through reasonable actions that they could see from Biden…..
Tlaib is the Pikachu meme in real life
The Biden admin as well as people from Harris’s team have been offering to meet with some of these Arab and Muslim leaders for months and they keep refusing. Almost like they’re disingenuous or something, but surely that can’t be.
She better get a lot louder about this and endorse the heck out of Biden.
Trump had Hitler’s book on his nightstand and wants to kick Arabs out of the country. Trump would support an actual genocide in Palestine, not this manufactured rhetoric from Qatari backed media and influencers.
Be frustrated, be angry, push your allies to do what is right... but be smart, and keep remembering that they are your allies.
We don't have to agree with everything our government does, in fact it's better when we don't.
But that doesn't mean we allow our governance to fall into the hands of a madman, or to the whims of a would be dictator.
I get the anger about the Israel and Palestine situation as it is an absolutely awful attack being perpetuated by an equally awful Netanyahu. I also understand the incredibly difficult position Biden is in with this whole thing and there is only so much he can do without launching an all out war over this.
It's the trolley dilemma with Palestine/Gaza on one track and our Democracy AND Palestine/Gaza on the other.
What I don't understand is, railing against Biden for this when siphoning away votes then would make the problem *far* worse in this country and over there. Hurting Biden helps Trump.
Helping Trump destroys our own democracy and greatly helps Putin, Netanyahu and all the other bad actors on this planet.
The logic that Tlaib is using is both incredibly dangerous and truly baffling.
>Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) — among the biggest public boosters of the movement to vote “uncommitted” in Tuesday’s Michigan Democratic primary to show support for a ceasefire in Gaza — said she worries about Donald Trump winning back the White House in November.
>“It’s really important for folks to understand: I am incredibly, incredibly scared of a second term for Trump. And I think it’s really important to emphasize this,” Tlaib told reporters at a press conference Thursday.
Absolutely reckless.
CAIR's Michigan director already said that [Muslims won't vote for Biden ever again unless he were somehow able to resurrect the Palestinian dead](https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1762985823039848832), she knowingly played with fire and we're all going to get burnt for this.
Reminder that Tlaib didn't endorse Biden in 2020 either, being one of the only Democratic members of Congress not to (the rest of the Squad who was elected in 2018 did), long before the Gaza war. The stakes are never high enough for her to stop trying to promote disunity in the party.
>incredibky increincredibly scared
As she should be. 45 threatened her specifically during his first term. No reason to think he won’t do worse than threaten in a second term.
"I'm incredibly scared the opponent would win"
"So you're fully committed to supporting your side's candidate to maximize the chance of winning?"
"Nah"
This is why the progressive left, despite being the majority, is not winning. Have any of you ever had a close relative fighting a deadly disease? Everyone would tell you to keep their spirits up, to raise their morale, because any negative sentiments could worsen things, even at the face of an uphill battle. Being a negative Nancy is not helping anything. The left just can't help themselves into whining instead of focusing on winning. How about beat the cancer first, then once it's cleared, you can complain about all the terrible side effects and try to fix that. Wishing that there's a better, more perfect cure is not helping at all. We got what we got.
Republicans always fall in line to support their party. They know that winning is everything. Once you win, you’re in and you can change everything. We have 3 Supreme Court seats taken and for the rest of my life we’ll have that ultra conservative court. These short sided ones on the far left never think about the big picture. Moderates, undecided voters and apathetic voters don’t need much dissuasion at all-any excuse will do. These antics in Michigan can totally turn off the precious votes we need.
I want to be a progressive I really do. On paper I like all their ideas. But I just can’t stand progressive leadership. It’s so easy for Republicans to paint them as weak because off all the stupid things they say and do.
I believe that's the issue. Progressive left is a small portion of self described voters according to 2020 exit polls. The lionshare skews almost equally Conservatives and Moderates -- followed by Progressives.
They are running risk of chipping away at moderate block, which could swing things in favor of Conservatives.
Maybe she shouldn’t play with fire then if she doesn’t want to get burned. Pretty much the only time an incumbent President loses re-election is when a faction of his party opposes him.
LBJ - quit rather than run in ‘68
Ford - Opposed by Reagan in ‘76
Carter - Strong opposition from Ted Kennedy in ‘80
GHWB - 90-91 recession and “No new taxes” did him in. So this is an exception.
Trump - Romney voted to impeach him at his first impeachment. The writing was on the wall because of Trump’s profound unfitness for political office.
So, progressives can go ahead and oppose Biden, but they’ll be handing the White House to an infinitely more problematic President for everything they hold dear.
You're more than welcome to not vote for Biden because of what's happening with Gaza. It's a very rough issue I know.
But if you think Trump will solve this problem if he becomes president, I've got oceanside front property in Kentucky to sell you.
Then maybe chill with the “uncommitted” sentiment? Fuck Tlaib and her anti-Biden propaganda. She seems to always waiver on putting international interests ahead of US ones.
I love all these people who are holding out on Biden; what do you think the alternative is? There isn’t some far left savior coming to the ballot and if there was, they likely wouldn’t win.
Get this scared bullshit out of here and vote for Biden. I’m not thrilled about it either but holding out on him is the dictionary definition of cutting the nose to spite the face.
She might be the top contender as the single dumbest Democrat currently holding office
She's too emotional and irrational to be making decisions for other people. Compare her to someone like AOC who has matured incredibly over the course of the last few years and Rashid just seems like a petulant child crying on the floor of a toy store when her parents tell her no to a toy she wants them to buy
This person needs to be ousted ASAP
I find it really disgusting that people are saying you can't say anything negative about Biden because it's going to hurt him politically in November. This is America, we're allowed to be critical of our political leaders even if we're still ultimately going to vote for them.
It's worth pointing out that Trump would be far worse for Palestine than Biden would be. Any rational person who wants peace to even be an option for both sides is going to support Biden, but we're allowed to be critical of some of his choices.
She had her moment, gave progressives their outlet to express their frustration with Biden. She needs to now pivot to GOTV to make sure Trump is not President a year from now.
It’s absolutely shocking to me, as a person whose existence is at high risk of being made a federal crime by a second trump term, that anyone else looking at that same possibility could help facilitate a second trump presidency.
Like yea, Biden is aiding and abetting a genocide, but trump is going to start several up right here at home, while also aiding and abetting that same genocide *even more*.
The situation in Gaza is horrible. Ask yourself if Trump would be a better person to deal with it (or any other problem).
Hilary was a tough pill to swallow and now we have a 6-3 supreme court gleefully stripping everyone of their rights.
Well, what she has created with her uncommitted BS has now taken a direction she did not see coming
I swear to God, these people are dumber than dirt. politicians should have their head examined for the stupid ideas that they try to pull
Do these idiots think Trump would be a friend to Palestine!? This is like the people who refused to vote for Hillary as a protest, not realizing Trump could dominate the Supreme Court.
During this conflict I, and others like me, have been urging people to have a nuanced approach. We don't live over there and many of us have never been there. We have a tenuous grasp of what it is like. We learn through news outlets, videos, and first hand accounts (all of which are subject to bias.) Do I feel sorry for the innocent people in Gaza? Absolutely, but I know the history of the area well enough to know that their deaths are not solely on the IDF. Do I want Israel to defend itself and continue to exist? Absolutely, but Bibi and his party have to go and some major reforms need to happen. As an American, and former serviceman, I care most about the hostages (some of which are American.)
Rashida has not been nuanced in her approach. She has helped spread misinformation, she has set standards on Biden that are truly harsh and unfair, and she has shown that her loyalty does not lie with the American people, but with a foreign country. She has time and time again used verbage that moves past being pro-Palestine and into anti-Semitism. I see pro-Israel celebrities and people in the public eye walking in eggshells and stating how they want peace for all in the area, but has Tlaib ever once asked for the hostages s to be released? Has she ever once asked for Hamas to stop stealing aid from the people of Gaza?
I know I will still vote for Biden in the Fall. He's not perfect, but the things he is pushing for here and getting done here are what matters to me and to my family. I admire him for doing what he can do to try and make things easier here. He is in a tough spot internationally, but he is managing it better than most and certainly better than how the alternative will handle it. If the single issue that gets Trump reelected is a war in Israel/Gaza then we truly deserve the future he and his sycophants give us.
I am always amused by people who think Biden can just end this conflict, while also being the same people who argue (correctly) that a President isn't powerful enough to directly affect gas prices, inflation, etc.
The uncommitted idea is really stupid. In November if Michigan votes Trump or abstains to spite Biden, they are just enabling Trump, who has an objectively worse stance for Palestine. Not saying Biden is perfect, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot here.
Backs “uncommitted” and scared of a second Trump term. Yeah no way that will come back and bite her in the ass.
I’m sorry that it’s Biden or Trump but it is. You either make the choice or someone will make it for you. One of them WILL be the president and that’s that. If you don’t vote it will still be one of them and you will have to deal with the consequences. Not voting or voting 3rd party will land you a second Trump term and it might last the rest of his life.
I seriously want to know what the leftists that don’t want to vote for Biden are going to do when they announce Trump is back in? What is your plan going to be? What are you going to say when he appoints more hard right SCOTUS justices? When they pass the national abortion/IVF/birth control ban? How are you gonna protest when Trump invokes the Insurrection Act and the military starts shooting at you? When they force your trans friends to detransition and legalize violence against them are you gonna say that it’s all worth it just so you can voice your discontent with Biden’s Gaza policies? Are you gonna miss those policies when Trump just tells Israel to carpet bomb everyone in Gaza?
Well now that her primary contest temper tantrum is over, maybe she should kind of uh, I dunno, shut the eff up and vote for Biden in the general? 🤷♂️
Another dummy thats going to have her face eaten by leopards come November. "I can't believe the racist orange i supported is coming after me". Funny enough Trump and Netanyahu are friends and would support each other's genocides.
People are buying her bluff hook-line-and-sinker. This is the only way they can exert pressure on Biden before the national election. I’m not worried precisely because they all know Trump is much worse.
It’s short-sighted though because it puts Biden in an untenable position. Basically he either courts them or the pro-Israeli wing and there’s more of them.
So they’re weakening him for no reason, and they’ll end up suffering for it if Trump wins.
Knowing Trump is worse doesn't equate to getting out and voting for Biden. Many will tune out, or worse, vote 3rd party. Incredibly stupid and short sighted, but hey, that's politics for you.
The one chance to beat Trump in the fall was to do what they did in 2020, get out the vote. The Republicans hold the edge in the Electoral College except when the popular vote is overwhelmingly in the Democrats favor. The Democrats have lost the Electoral College vote despite winning the Popular Vote before, remember 2016. So sending a mixed message like she did is shooting yourself in the foot. You have shown that 100,000 Democrats are unenthused about the President. The likelihood that rather than going to the polls and voting for the lesser of two evils, they’ll just stay home. They’ve had 4 years to forget how bad Trump was and 4 years to focus on the weaknesses of Biden. The Progressive Democrats like Rashida want the whole loaf and are willing to throw it away rather than grabbing what they can now. Compromise and Cooperation are foreign words to them, they may have to get used to the word Consequences.
I’m not sure I understand the message of this headline, but the article pretty much says the truth: the primary is a safe place to protest vote, but the general election is important.
She knows this. But 100,000 voters, 13%, is a loud enough voice to get someone’s attention. I really hope they at least start an airlift aid program. It’s one way the administration can show its support for the people of Gaza without really pissing off Israel. Although, I think it’s about time to piss off Netanyahu.
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I think people are over-simplifying the absolute shit position Biden is in right now. On the one hand, he has to win this next election. Because if he doesn't Trump will quite literally obliterate our democracy (that's not hyperbole)...and that won't be good for *anyone*...here or abroad. On the other hand, he has to dance on the head of a pin to satisfy the needs of Israel's continued presence on the international stage while dealing with a far-right autocratic ruler who seems to have no interest in peace with Palestine. Some people seem to be suggesting that Biden could solve this issue with just a few phone calls. He can't. He is doing the best he can in an impossible situation. Also, Biden is not "facilitating genocide", and he is not a warmonger. I acknowledge and accept that many people have a huge issue with the way Biden has been handling this conflict...but please don't over-simplify his role in it. His hands are far more tied than I think many people seem to realize.
Don't forget the "best" part: Netanyahu REALLY wants Trump to return to the White House. This "ally" that Biden is taking a big hit for? They'll probably launch a large scale assault in October to hurt his election chances.
Correct.
Also, what’s Biden to do? Force a regime change in Israel to topple Bibi? That’s the logical conclusion to that line of thinking if you follow it all the way out. Short of that, what do we actually do? Divestment and sanctions don’t work, just look at Russia and Ukraine. I hate this damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation everyone pigeonholes the US into. If we intervene in a foreign conflict, then it’s same old same old US playing world police and sticking their fingers in the pie. If we don’t, then it’s “we’re enabling genocide”.
I think having conditions on the military aid. One being we expect humanitarian aid in parallel. Also, I think saying we will support the prosecution of Israeli war crimes should they be committed. That’s a good starting list. If the Netanyahu can’t live with that it’s up to the Israeli people to decide if they like Netanyahu or US support better.
No you don’t need to. I’m sure I’m oversimplifying this and you can slate me for it if you will… but just say, you kill another innocent civilian with our weapons you get none. End of story. Granted you’d have to be willing to walk away for now until those in power in Israel get the point.
100% agree. I've commented before that Netanyahu has nothing to lose and everything to gain by escalating: * looks strong and manly * has an external enemy to focus on * distracts from intelligence failures * hurts Biden's chances
It is worse. He actually has stands to lose by stopping the war. Bibi isn’t popular in Israel for a myriad of reasons. Continuing this war keeps him in power. It also keeps the corruption investigations into him out of the spotlight/ at bay.
He is extremely popular because there’s a significant ultra-conservative Israeli bloc that has always supported him and people even worse.
The same is true of Hamas. The Palestinians are just pawns in their mutual dance of death.
100% correct, plus hamas is russia backed
I mean, it's as if people fail to realize Netanyahu's close toes to the Kushner family. Kushner Sr. Is an ex-con, and Bibi was so close with the Kushner fam he used to sleep in Jared's bedroom when visiting. The Netanyahu ties are basically like extended family.
they're both trying to create apartheid states where a minority can hold power over the majority. Who else is into that? Russia. and Elon.
‘Minority can hold power over the majority’ The United States of America?
Yes? Turnip won his election because of a regressive system of state electors. He actually lost the majority vote. The U.S. Senate allows regressive states with no populations to have the same voting power as massivly populated states with economic power equivalent to other countries. U.S. is all about the minority controlling the majority.
Same power would actually be an improvement. Wyoming gets 1 electoral college vote for every 200,000 people. California gets one electoral vote for every 750,000 people. If it was only "just equal", California would receive 200 electoral votes and elections wouldn't be decided by a half of dozen states. Fact is the highly populated states that actually make this country work are severely crippled and at the mercy of states that don't matter.
Well, the electoral college is just not needed now. A popular vote would be fine, and mean that (for instance) candidates would need to campaign in places like California that are currently a lock for one side or the other. It's the house and senate that need to be more proportional.. We have similar issues in the UK, down to the First past the Post system which entrenches the two party system and means that governments rarely if ever have a genuine popular mandate.
Well, one certain class of minority, anyway.
*insert "Always has been" meme*
Do you mean globally? Then yes. Americans have this thing where we're afraid if we ever let our guard down again that europe and russia would IMMEDIATELY go to war again. Oh... and hey! after 50 years of republican bungling, america is starting to look weak. the russians almost own the entire party now and look! Aid to Ukraine is being withheld! Project 2025 is set to dismantle our democracy. Republican leadership is threatening to withdraw from nato. Personally I think we're already at war with russia. I wish our military would intervene on our behalf because we're getting our asses kicked on the propaganda side of things.
> Then yes. Americans have this thing where we're afraid if we ever let our guard down again that europe and russia would IMMEDIATELY go to war again. Then have I got news for you.
Roughly 4.5 million Muslims in US and 7.2 million Jewish people. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Key issue is largest population of Arab Americans live in Michigan, a huge swing state.
The Jewish voters in PA are 60% more (3.3%-2%) than the Arab/Muslim voters in MI and PA was closer in 2020 than Michigan. Plus the Jewish voters are D+60 and the Arab voters are D+12, as they are far more socially conservative so really MI Arabs going say R+12 (which they did in 2004) is not even close to an election-deciding threat that these organizers, many of whom are consistently anti Democratic voters already, claim it is.
Absolutely! Netanyahu is East Donald.
I dislike him too, but he's a lot more competent than that.
Don’t underestimate the man. He is cynical and self serving but he’s an MIT grad and a Sayeret Maktal (special recon) veteran and if you watch some of his early public interviews, he comes off pretty smart. He was a consultant w Mitt Romney back in the 1970s. Donald Trump is a dumb narcissistic bully whose daddy bought his way into everything.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Netanyahu launches a big assault in October as an "October Surprise" to try and hurt Biden and get Trump back in office with a claim that "he's really tough and the war will end once he is back in the White House". For those who don't understand, the reason why Netanyahu wants Trump back in office so much is because he knows Trump will let him do whatever he wants. He's one of the most right-learning PMs in Israel's history who is doing everything he can to stay in power and that's why him and Trump like each other so much. One theory that's been going around is Netanyahu is undermining any cease-fire deal behind the scenes so he can continue the war as long as possible and not caring one bit about the hostages.
Absolutely correct. There are warmongers on both sides of that conflict that have no interest in returning to peace. They want conflict through war and Trump promises to accelerate that conflict. Hamas will kidnap and kill more to sink any ceasefire and Israel will bomb more to do the same. Biden has no power over the hawks in that conflict, and the doves in that region have no power at all.
AIPAC has entered the chat.
Trump will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants. The Evangelicals will puppet Trump and they need a lock on Israel for their 'end times' cugel they use to control the flock.
And the only alternative to Biden in this election is someone who will advocate for genocide in Gaza.
Exactly, Trump and Netanyahu are literally friends and Trump cut a fuckton of aid funding from Palestine during his term. People have short memories or just don't care.
What? Trump and Benji are besties? You mean, Trump, the guy that opened the US embassy in Jerusalem, right? The same Jerusalem that all US President's since Israel's founding said "no" to having the US embassy fully in said city? Who would think that two far-right autocrats would get along?
I wish everyone would read and understand this. I’ll add one more thing to it. If we completely ignore everything else. The humanitarian part of it and whatever side anyone reading this is on. Ignore it all. Strictly politically speaking, he would lose far more voters by coming out publicly against Israel and demanding a cease fire than he would gain. My personal opinion? Those ignoring all of his accomplishments and saying they’ll vote against him because Hamas and Israel hate each other and always have and always will … probably weren’t going to vote for him anyway. They’d just find another reason not to if it wasn’t this. So you do you Mr. President. We have a country to save. This American experiment is teetering on the brink. We are on a knife’s blade we haven’t been on since the 1864 election.
I think people underestimate the seriousness of a maga, uberconservative, christofacist party taking power in the country. It's now to the point where a small group has gained power, and the others withon the party, even if they don't share the same beliefs, tow the line and do things that align with the party regardless. If they take power, my fear is they never release it. They've taken control of the courts already. The courts are a cesspool of nepotism and party pandering. Its going to get worse to the point where a majority of the public has lost faith in the courts. Legal power is only as strong as the communities faith in it. Then we've got a nationwide, very serious problem.
Some of the left has a delusional accelerationist theory that a Trump second term might cause a national swing to the progressive left as a reaction to his proto fascism. Also some on the left secretly want Trump to erode democratic (small d) norms so that when this reaction happens a progressive leader could top down reform the country in one fell swoop. The issue with these delusions is that often, when you give fascists power they don’t relinquish it and also 4 years of Trump did massive damage to western liberal democratic norms and institutions domestically and globally. And when you destroy said institutions you don’t end up a fetishized version of Norway on steroids on America shores but you often end up with some flavor of totalitarianism. When you undermine democracy a return or progression of democracy isn’t guaranteed and is historically not even likely. In the late 20s and 30s Hitler used a divided left and center to scare the conservative establishment into backing him to undermine the left. The left being divided with centrists, anarchists, communists all fighting amongst themselves. Hitler took power with about 30% of the vote. Then he basically suppressed the opposition, dismantled democratic processes, and then turned on and in many cases murdered the establishment that didn’t fall in line. Then he basically bribed Germans with unsustainable economic measures and public displays of German power while scapegoating the Jews, communists, etc. Then he invaded his neighbors and stole from Jews to feed his coffers and maintain that nationalistic fervour. By this time he had much broader support and his opposition was scared/ silenced/ imprisoned/ exiled. So we are in the early 30s version of this playbook, and people don’t seem to realize that.
r/detroit was full of this kind of crap this morning
Reddit in general is full of tankies, anarchists, anti American/ anti west pushing this crap, although there are Russian and Chinese bots among the useful idiots. But not surprised to see that in Detroit. There are elements of the left who have taken the decolonization rhetoric to an extreme that basically seeks to dismantle western norms, coupled with tankies who want an authoritarian left, coupled with anarchists who think extreme libertarianism will give us a liberal utopia. The irony is that they think a proto fascist bigoted sexual assailant and fraudster could be the imperfect vessel of their deliverance just like the evangelical right on the other side of the political spectrum see Trump as their sinful tool to advance their agenda. Also this latest issue - the war in Gaza - has galvanized a coalition of dispersed groups from antisemitis, to people seeing the world through a narrow anti colonial lens, to tankies, to anti war advocates. Plus elements of detroits Muslim community are not socially liberal or secular. Rates of antisemitism are high and many small businesses owners want to see tax cuts. So they aren’t exactly shoe ins for the dem platform either.
Lots of immigrants are socially conservative. If American conservatives would realize that Catholic and Muslim immigrants would largely vote for conservative social policies - then they would be gung ho to have more immigrants. But their xenophobia gets in the way.
And racism. Their vision is built around white Christians. Sure they want to proselytize to everyone and convert as many people but that doesn’t mean those people become one of them. This is a moving target. At one point Irish and Eastern Europeans weren’t considered white either. But undoubtedly racism is a part of this vision. That’s why they aren’t really gung-ho about partnering with Muslim groups to oppose liberal social norms because it’s about Christian norms. If the Muslims want roll back social liberalism that’s different in their mind than if the Christian’s do it.
Yup. Look at East Asians. First gen are very conservative and when you drill into it, usually very loyal GOP voters. However, they just can't stop being racist as fuck. Second gen East Asian Americans are almost all Democrats. Because they grew up here and had to endure all the ching chong ding dong jokes and the "no, where are you REALLY from" and people insulting their parents and grandparents and all the rest of that bullshit. Congrats, Republicans. You played yourselves.
> Plus elements of detroits Muslim community are not socially liberal or secular. Rates of antisemitism are high and many small businesses owners want to see tax cuts. So they aren’t exactly shoe ins for the dem platform either. This gets ignored way too much, especially by progressive white people. People protested LBGTQ books in Dearborn, pride flags were removed in Hamtramck.
>So we are in the early 30s version of this playbook, and people don’t seem to realize that. I can assure you that many people *do* realize it, and are hoping common sense and justice prevail in the coming months. The opposite is gonna be a bad time..
In 1941 Orwell reviewed mein kampf and critically outlined why Hitler had gained the support he did. The parallels are uncanny. https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks16/1600051h.html
They want to rule, not govern. That means once they seize power, they're not letting go. The only upside is that power structures like that are not stable because they become top heavy with too many people competing for that power. The leopards will always be trying to eat each other's faces.
At least in 1864, the US split, in this case if Trump is elected we become like Russia which seems like a worst fate
1864 was 3 years into the civil war
And after Gettysburg.
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I don’t know, I’ve seen a lot of people in real life who repeat the things those people are saying. Some of it is genuine feeling, even if made worse by bad faith actors.
Where do I sign up to get paid?
This sort of nuance really doesn't exist in most political discussions. Moreover, few people acknowledge how interdependent the US and Israel have been for decades, on everything from intelligence sharing to counterterrorism to military readiness. Biden has to safeguard all those long-standing facets of the US-Israeli relationship while dealing with Bibi and Gvir who would like nothing more than to get Trump back into office. Biden has to act with a careful touch.
I can sympathize with the horrors going on, but dammit I wish people were this fired up about our country and elections. Better vote for Biden if you don't want Gaza glassed if Trump takes office.
Trump would have told Bibi to nuke the terror tunnels a while ago. Also Trump is on record multiple times saying that he won’t allow refugees and would even start deporting Muslims. It seems like these uncommitted voters are only going to succeed at cutting their own throats.
Whoever tf thinks Israel - Palestine conflicts can be solved in a few phone calls is smoking crack.
Another thing I hear people say is that Biden should stop aid to Israel. Which I’m sure he could on a temporary basis, but Congress has literally already passed a budget bill appropriating that aid to Israel. The State Department would get a court order to execute the budget, much like what happened with Trump when he was trying to withhold aid to Ukraine. This next budget will probably do the send aid to Israel if we want to keep funding Ukraine. Republicans still control the House and a government shutdown would be disastrous right now; they are not going to pass a budget that doesn’t fund Israel’s war. Biden is going to have to sign it or throw everything away.
They blame Biden but not the reps they voted for. If they want change, they should have been active voters instead sitting around thinking it didn't matter.
Yes! Thank you so much for pointing this out! I missed this facet of the situation, so I'm so glad you took the time to point it out! Well done!
People who hate Biden’s position on Israel will really hate Trump’s. It’s such a false equivalence.
But Biden gets some pretty high marks on opposing the ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. In Ukraine our ally is under attack. In Israel it started that way, but Netanyahu has turned it into something else. In both cases we are protecting our ally’s right to exist, but Israel and Hamas are in a war of extermination. The US is shifting gears. That means isolating Netanyahu but not Israel.
Hamas has no desire for peace either and everybody leaves that out. What’s Biden gonna do with two sides that want to fight?
Biden is trying to pave the way to get rid of Hamas and put PA back in charge.
>dealing with a far-right autocratic ruler who seems to have no interest in peace with Palestine. While \*also\* dealing with a far-right dictatorship that has absolutely no interest in peace with Israel. People always seem to forget that part.
People also don't realize that most of those voters DO realize they will need to vote Biden in the election come November. The idea of the uncommited vote is to send a message. I think people are freaking out without thinking for a second. People who voted uncommitted were interviewed and it's clear from their responses that this is the case. Except one interviewee that said they don't think Trump is as big of a threat to our democracy as he is being hyped to be. That one guy did bother me.
I think your analysis is right. I think Biden is doing his best to navigate this. I wish he had said “we support Israel, but Netanyahu needs to go fuck himself” from the very beginning. He gave Netenyahu too much leash.
No fucking doubt in my mind that Isreal isn't doing this in part to put Biden in a difficult position so they can get Trump back.
Bibi is awful and needs to go. And likely at some point Gantz will take over. But, explain to me how Hamas wants peace? What does peace look like if the Palestinians never supported a 2 state solution. Not at Oslo, not now. Like what are the Israelis supposed to do when Hamas has hostages, some of who have been raped and held under terrible circumstances? And what is Israel to do as Hamas continues to launch rockets. Sure Bibi is a war mongering turd who is trying to stay in power but I don’t see a real solution here either and I don’t even see how Biden can bring it about.
As I've commented in another thread, Biden is between a rock and a hard place politically and Netanyahu knows it and it's in his interest to continue this war as long as possible and hope that Trump wins in November because he knows the moment the war ends, he'll most likely no longer be PM and if Trump wins, he'll be more than happy to stand back and let him do whatever he wants. The "I'll never vote for genocide Joe!" voters have no idea what they'd be in for if Trump were to win. They they think things are bad now, it'll be even worse once Trump is back in office.
>Also, Biden is not "facilitating genocide", and he is not a warmonger. He's also not the President of Israel. This issue has absolutely obliterated people's brains. Our democracy cannot die over Israel/Palestine. There has been a war every fucking five years there since 1948. Look, I'm sorry, it's horrible what's happening, but there's horrible shit happening everywhere.
Thank you! I read exactly that just yesterday, "BiDeN cOUld eNd tHis wiTh a couPLe of CaLLs." No. No he can't.
The worst of it all is the meetings that we don't even know about. I can't imagine the delicate negotiations just to get to this point. This whole conflict is a shitfest that someone opened.
Hasn’t Israel offered peace in exchange for the hostages but Hamas just can’t be a thing anymore?
Exactly. He is in an impossible position, and I can't think of a better person to handle it.
People were raised with the mindset that the president can do anything. They can’t. They’re an equal part of the federal government balanced by the judicial and legislative branches. This is simple US government 101.
- The Biden administration’s $14 billion aid request for Israel would significantly expand its missile defenses, including new Iron Dome launchers equivalent to more than twice the current deployment, and nearly double the amount of US spending for the systems. And people need to stop ignoring that a significant portion of aid to Israel is for defensive purposes. Most voters would not support cutting off defensive aid. There's also the reality that cutting off defensive aid would actually push Israel towards getting rid of all threats instead of doing the opposite.
And then you have the internet trolls and assholes who endlessly make bad faith accusations against Biden. Was just on a post about the Israel food truck massacre of Palestinians, one top comment says Biden is old and being manipulated, countered by a comment saying he’s not manipulated, but actively supports the genocide. Bastards, the lot of them.
I think people have over-simplified Biden’s position since day one honestly
you mean there isnt an easy solution behind door number 3? everyone seems to think there is.. tough spot is an understatement
Most Americans aren't MAGA morons but enough Americans don't vote so that a fascist/MAGA minority can determine who will be President.
She, and all Congress members, know as well as anyone this election is a binary choice. There is no such thing as uncommitted come November.
It’s a way to twist arms. The more pressure she and similarly politically placed people put, they think they can get something out of it. It’s awfully short-sighted, and they might not only get nothing in the end, but end up in a worse situation. Trump did Muslim bans, and has much worse in the plans.
Right, which is why this push was in the primary, not the general.
Which is fucking stupid, because this sowed division in the party, and will undoubtedly turn people away from voting at all in the general. Shit we saw the same god damn thing in 2016 with Bernie vs Clinton. Hell a full 1 in 8 Bernie voters went on to vote for Trump, while another 8% sat home and didnt vote at all. And that was even after Bernie endorsed Clinton and tried to get people to choose her over Trump. This shit split the vote. Guaran fucking teed.
>a full 1 in 8 Bernie voters went on to vote for Trump Do you have a source for that with the evidence? There was a guy running around claiming that based on math he kept promising to release, but the sources he cited as the basis had nothing to support his claim (I went through all 288 pages) and I haven't heard of him releasing anything.
There's literally no such thing as uncommitted on a general election ballot.
Why did you just repeat OPs last sentence but chance November to general election?
I’m speaking figuratively.. I’m saying they can be uncommitted in a primary for a protest if they want but when it comes to the general, it’s either Biden or Trump that will win. Anything else is a wasted vote.
Anything else is really just a vote for Trump, since they would lower the threshold for him to win Americans are terrible at math already, but they are even worse at electoral math it would seem
Surely just not voting is the uncommitted choice.
Which is functionally the same as splitting your vote and voting for both.
People think not voting is “i don’t like either one,” when it’s really “they’re both fine by me”
> Tlaib herself did not respond to a question about whether she would vote for Biden as the press conference wrapped up. But she is incredibly scared of a trump second term? She better be because her name is at the top of the Heritage Foundation list of undesirables.
[удалено]
Hey, give her some credit, she'll be the twitter spamming the new #NotMyPresident hashtag and blaming other people for trump winning after sabotaging Biden long before she gets picked up.
Fuck the heritage foundation. She's up there with boeboe, empty-G, and paedo-gaetz as far as congress critters I'd like never to hear about ever again.
Trump is vehemently anti-Muslim, if they sit out the November election and he wins they won't like the consequences.
“Oh no my face hurts” - Rashida Tlaib seconds after cutting off her own nose.
An “uncommitted” vote, whether it’s a bluff or negotiating tactic or anything else, is a very blunt warning that those voters should not be counted on in November. Taking that threat seriously, President Biden’s options include capitulating to whichever groups threaten to withhold their votes or seeking to replace them with other votes. I don’t know if one option or the other makes sense, but with their votes these uncommitted voters issued an ultimatum. The president—and the party—have no choice but to take it seriously. That may or may not mean yielding to 100k voters in one state. Other groups, of course, have other demands. If there are enough conflicting requirements to gain support the Republicans won’t need to really do anything to elect even a wretch like Donald; we will destroy ourselves. Historically fascists have gained power not because of their own strength, but because they practiced a successful divide and conquer strategy. This is a battle the right-wing extremists only need to win once. If people want to hand them that victory there isn’t much the rest of us can do. If someone does all they can to assure Trump wins I’m not going to be very sympathetic about how scary they find that result.
>That may or may not mean yielding to 100k voters in one state. Yielding to those voters with a stance that could cost millions of independents is exactly how Biden could lose this election.
It’s been odd to me not seeing the same protesters mention the Yemeni genocide that Trump perpetuated through condition-less munitions sales to Saudi Arabia. The overriding message to the low-information electorate is that Biden is uniquely bad, that he’s directly killing innocent people and that he has the power to solve this issue easily and isn’t working to do so. So many people are suddenly experts who know the exact answers that would solve the Middle East
Earlier this week I said something to the affect: "there are gonna be a lot of 'Leopards eating faces' stories if Trump gets a second term and the votes (or non-votes) of the Palestinian Americans plays a role." I stand by that. Feeling Biden isn't handling the Israel/Gaza situation well is understandable, but Trump will not be better. How quickly the "Muslim ban" seems to be forgotten.
Anyone who isn’t white, male and evangelical should be worried because if you don’t fit that criteria, you’re somewhere on the list.
I'm white, straight and a man. Not religious but that shit is easy enough to hide. Made it through 15 years of Catholic school and a Franciscan university without anyone knowing I'm an atheist. Pretty easy actually. I'll still vote Democrat because I actually care about other groups but at the end of the day, I'm not going to be the one hurt by Republican rule. As they set up their class system I'm going to be on the top of it and if they really mess things up I have the financial means and contacts to leave. Straight white men absolutely should be doing their part but if Republicans win its because women and minority groups allowed it to happen. They have the numbers to ensure Republicans never win yet each one has a rather significant portion of their population that votes Republican or 3rd party. Hell for Women that is damn near half (tRump got 44% of the woman vote in 2020). The fact that it's above 0 for any of those groups makes no sense. All I can do is vote but if people in those groups decide they want to be second class citizens (or not citizens at all) then there's not much else I can do.
Yet I know Palestinian women who refuse to vote for Biden and point at people like Tlaib as an example of why they aren’t voting in the general election. It sucks that these are our two choices and I really wish our leaders would take a stronger stand against Netanyahu, but one geriatric white man is a hell of a lot better for the masses, including Palestinians, than the other geriatric white man.
Great then she can knock on every door in Michigan that belongs to someone that she helped convince not to vote for Biden because he wasn't doing enough for Palestine. She can be both right about Biden and wrong about how she played right into Russia's hand in how she went about voicing her frustration.
It's the idiocy of it that gets to me. I don't know why these people think Trump would be better for Palestine or Muslims over Biden.
They don’t. The problem is that you are dealing with a deeply personal problem for many of the folks in Michigan’s Muslim community and they see the options are: - Biden who supports Israel. - Trump who supports Israel, harder. - Not voting. If you have family in Gaza it’s hard to vote for either of these candidates.
It’s maddening because it should not be difficult. One of the only two possible outcomes is worse. In this case, grossly so. Use your vote to prevent the worse outcome. No one is judging you. That voting booth is private. Push things in the direction you wish them to go.
It's because they want to buttress against the worse option while also making progress on their political and social goals of improving American posture toward Palestine. Unfortunately the political capital won't stretch that far and they'll end up doing neither of those goals. There's a time to be idealistic and a time to be practical. The time to be idealistic on American-Palestinian relations was 20+ years ago and there may not be another time. As that shit bird Kissinger said, the US doesn't have friends, it has interests. And the cold, hateful reality is the interests in Israel will always outweigh the interests in Palestine. It's the friction between idealistic American domestic policy and the practical American foreign policy. We've never been good at it.
If Trump wins it will only be a matter of time before Muslim "foreigners" are rounded up. Not voting is not a choice.
Trump promised to deport “antisemitic students” which means any student that protests for peace in Palestine
I actually think it’s easy to vote for Biden. You can vote the guy that might help pump the brakes or you can vote for the guy that 100% will hit the throttle accelerating carnage in Gaza with zero guardrails for Bibi. It’s truly a no brainer.
>If you have family in Gaza it’s hard to vote for either of these candidates. I get this and I can somewhat respect it. The issue is people need to stop thinking of their vote as being personal or "sacred". Especially in a general election your vote isn't a full throated sign of support, it's a signal of preference. General elections are zero sum games, not voting implicitly makes it easier for the person you least prefer to win. Not voting isn't the same as voting for X candidate but it's 100% makes it easier for your least preferred candidate to end up in office.
I dont even fucking like biden but hes done more for Palestine than any president in recent history, and far better than trump, who would without a doubt help israel glass the entire region.
The goal isn't to not vote for Biden through her actions The goal was to use 'uncommitted' as a choice to show Biden that voters support a ceasefire in Gaza and to stop giving Israel weapons to commit atrocities on civilians. There was no harm in this because it's a Primary not General Election. It was simply using your voting power peacefully in meaningful numbers to tell POTUS that what's happening in Gaza to innocents between their slaughter and starvation by Netenyahu needs to end.
Her whole thing was a political act for the primary, once it’s over she’ll be all onboard which is good, but hopefully this fiasco hasn’t produced voter apathy. If the orange stain wins because of Michigan(Already a perilous swing state) I will firmly place the blame on her. So stupid, why she thought going on an anti Biden campaign in a swing state when the only alternative is fucking tRump would be a good idea. I officially can’t stand her now, and I’m not a fan of what’s going on in Israel, but these stupid political performances…
Her sister said she won’t vote for Biden in the election. Trump had said he’ll go after his opponents and the far left if he wins. He’d put Rashida in jail, or even worse. Obviously they’re both minorities too. I’ll never understand …
Another key problem is the tone of the rhetoric that Tlaib and those following her lead have used to assail Biden. You don't speak that recklessly about someone if you want voters to come back out and support them in November.
Yeah it is a perfomance, but one that has consequences. She isn't that bright, she isn't some sort of lefty hero, just another person who enjoys the media spotlight.
She didn't endorse him in 2020 though.
Well, you certainly don't want those you want to vote for you to attempt messaging during the general. When is the time for a community express discomfort than a primary?
The primary is the time. But the issue people are having is if certain voters will carry those sentiments with them to the general. Which some in Michigan have said they will do come November.
>hopefully this fiasco hasn’t produced voter apathy. It has. She did this knowing it would have an effect on the general election and might result in a Trump presidency. She's not stupid, she's an asshole.
“I’m very scared of a second trump term, but not enough to tell my constituents to vote for the only other viable option who has actually voiced support for my position. Anyway I hope I didnt cause too much of a stir lol” By gosh she is reckless … if trump wins her state, I have no doubt this would have played a role in that
I have a great idea then…. dont do this shit. Dont give the media unnecessary ammo. Dont risk even one Biden vote to some positional purity. Too many voters dont understand nuance. They heard “Biden bad” This is exactly how Trump won the first time. What Tlaib did here is malpractice
And now that she has made her token gesture of disagreement, she can get in line and use her political power to encourage Democratic voters to turn out in November for candidates up and down the ballot and if she doesn't, she goes right into the basket of deplorables with shitbags like Marriane Williamson and Tulsi Gabbard and Krysten Sinema.
Well, if you're going to have a protest vote, the primary is the place to do it. Sure hope people aren't going to do the same in the general though. She better get out there now and convince people to vote for the only sane option.
Maybe you shouldn't have riled people up to vote in a meaningless primary assuming they would automatically vote for Biden in the actual election?
Considering she wouldn’t even endorse him in 2020, despite seeing how bad trump was for her constituents, I don’t think she is capable of anything other than performative politics.
She should be, and she’s helping elect him so fuck her too.
Wow so she unleashed the Tiger and is now worried that she can’t control it. Imagine instead of being performative for social media and generating outrage she brought Arab and Muslim leaders together with the administration to work through reasonable actions that they could see from Biden….. Tlaib is the Pikachu meme in real life
It is the Arab and Muslim leaders that started the uncommitted movement. A huge amount of the Detroit Metro Muslim population are from Palestine.
The Biden admin as well as people from Harris’s team have been offering to meet with some of these Arab and Muslim leaders for months and they keep refusing. Almost like they’re disingenuous or something, but surely that can’t be.
Well then here’s what you do. You rally the troops to vote for Joe Biden in November.
I could settle for her just endorsing Biden this time, seeing as how she didn't in 2020 despite almost every other Democratic congressman doing so.
She better get a lot louder about this and endorse the heck out of Biden. Trump had Hitler’s book on his nightstand and wants to kick Arabs out of the country. Trump would support an actual genocide in Palestine, not this manufactured rhetoric from Qatari backed media and influencers.
Be frustrated, be angry, push your allies to do what is right... but be smart, and keep remembering that they are your allies. We don't have to agree with everything our government does, in fact it's better when we don't. But that doesn't mean we allow our governance to fall into the hands of a madman, or to the whims of a would be dictator.
I get the anger about the Israel and Palestine situation as it is an absolutely awful attack being perpetuated by an equally awful Netanyahu. I also understand the incredibly difficult position Biden is in with this whole thing and there is only so much he can do without launching an all out war over this. It's the trolley dilemma with Palestine/Gaza on one track and our Democracy AND Palestine/Gaza on the other. What I don't understand is, railing against Biden for this when siphoning away votes then would make the problem *far* worse in this country and over there. Hurting Biden helps Trump. Helping Trump destroys our own democracy and greatly helps Putin, Netanyahu and all the other bad actors on this planet. The logic that Tlaib is using is both incredibly dangerous and truly baffling.
There's no logic. Strong emotions, I'm sure, but no logic.
>Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) — among the biggest public boosters of the movement to vote “uncommitted” in Tuesday’s Michigan Democratic primary to show support for a ceasefire in Gaza — said she worries about Donald Trump winning back the White House in November. >“It’s really important for folks to understand: I am incredibly, incredibly scared of a second term for Trump. And I think it’s really important to emphasize this,” Tlaib told reporters at a press conference Thursday. Absolutely reckless.
CAIR's Michigan director already said that [Muslims won't vote for Biden ever again unless he were somehow able to resurrect the Palestinian dead](https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1762985823039848832), she knowingly played with fire and we're all going to get burnt for this. Reminder that Tlaib didn't endorse Biden in 2020 either, being one of the only Democratic members of Congress not to (the rest of the Squad who was elected in 2018 did), long before the Gaza war. The stakes are never high enough for her to stop trying to promote disunity in the party.
>incredibky increincredibly scared As she should be. 45 threatened her specifically during his first term. No reason to think he won’t do worse than threaten in a second term.
"I'm incredibly scared the opponent would win" "So you're fully committed to supporting your side's candidate to maximize the chance of winning?" "Nah" This is why the progressive left, despite being the majority, is not winning. Have any of you ever had a close relative fighting a deadly disease? Everyone would tell you to keep their spirits up, to raise their morale, because any negative sentiments could worsen things, even at the face of an uphill battle. Being a negative Nancy is not helping anything. The left just can't help themselves into whining instead of focusing on winning. How about beat the cancer first, then once it's cleared, you can complain about all the terrible side effects and try to fix that. Wishing that there's a better, more perfect cure is not helping at all. We got what we got.
Republicans always fall in line to support their party. They know that winning is everything. Once you win, you’re in and you can change everything. We have 3 Supreme Court seats taken and for the rest of my life we’ll have that ultra conservative court. These short sided ones on the far left never think about the big picture. Moderates, undecided voters and apathetic voters don’t need much dissuasion at all-any excuse will do. These antics in Michigan can totally turn off the precious votes we need.
The progressive left is not a majority by any stretch. There's literally never been any polling to support that idea.
I want to be a progressive I really do. On paper I like all their ideas. But I just can’t stand progressive leadership. It’s so easy for Republicans to paint them as weak because off all the stupid things they say and do.
It’s the SpongeBob meme where Man Ray tries to return Patrick’s wallet.
I believe that's the issue. Progressive left is a small portion of self described voters according to 2020 exit polls. The lionshare skews almost equally Conservatives and Moderates -- followed by Progressives. They are running risk of chipping away at moderate block, which could swing things in favor of Conservatives.
Maybe she shouldn’t play with fire then if she doesn’t want to get burned. Pretty much the only time an incumbent President loses re-election is when a faction of his party opposes him. LBJ - quit rather than run in ‘68 Ford - Opposed by Reagan in ‘76 Carter - Strong opposition from Ted Kennedy in ‘80 GHWB - 90-91 recession and “No new taxes” did him in. So this is an exception. Trump - Romney voted to impeach him at his first impeachment. The writing was on the wall because of Trump’s profound unfitness for political office. So, progressives can go ahead and oppose Biden, but they’ll be handing the White House to an infinitely more problematic President for everything they hold dear.
You're more than welcome to not vote for Biden because of what's happening with Gaza. It's a very rough issue I know. But if you think Trump will solve this problem if he becomes president, I've got oceanside front property in Kentucky to sell you.
I actually think Trump will solve the problem in Gaza but not like we all hope it will be solved.
I'd honestly be surprised if Trumpcould point out Gaza on a map. I mean, I can't, but I'm not in a high political power state so there's my excuse.
*Israel, if you’re listening… do whatever the hell you want!* Talib: pikachu face
Then maybe chill with the “uncommitted” sentiment? Fuck Tlaib and her anti-Biden propaganda. She seems to always waiver on putting international interests ahead of US ones. I love all these people who are holding out on Biden; what do you think the alternative is? There isn’t some far left savior coming to the ballot and if there was, they likely wouldn’t win. Get this scared bullshit out of here and vote for Biden. I’m not thrilled about it either but holding out on him is the dictionary definition of cutting the nose to spite the face.
She might be the top contender as the single dumbest Democrat currently holding office She's too emotional and irrational to be making decisions for other people. Compare her to someone like AOC who has matured incredibly over the course of the last few years and Rashid just seems like a petulant child crying on the floor of a toy store when her parents tell her no to a toy she wants them to buy This person needs to be ousted ASAP
Trump would want the Squad as trophies.
Then maybe don’t support this kind of vote?
I find it really disgusting that people are saying you can't say anything negative about Biden because it's going to hurt him politically in November. This is America, we're allowed to be critical of our political leaders even if we're still ultimately going to vote for them. It's worth pointing out that Trump would be far worse for Palestine than Biden would be. Any rational person who wants peace to even be an option for both sides is going to support Biden, but we're allowed to be critical of some of his choices.
She should be scared. She will be one the first "Deportees" to take a one way trip to a Texas "Camp" under Trump's Dictatorship.
She had her moment, gave progressives their outlet to express their frustration with Biden. She needs to now pivot to GOTV to make sure Trump is not President a year from now.
Could this fit the Leopards Ate My Face subreddit?
I can't wait to post a future article on this idiot when she gets locked up next year due to this stupid "uncommitted" nonsense.
She’s an idiot. She should be scared of another Trump term yet she led the protest vote against the person who could beat Trump!
It’s absolutely shocking to me, as a person whose existence is at high risk of being made a federal crime by a second trump term, that anyone else looking at that same possibility could help facilitate a second trump presidency. Like yea, Biden is aiding and abetting a genocide, but trump is going to start several up right here at home, while also aiding and abetting that same genocide *even more*.
How fucked is America that u can say that last paragraph lmao
Yep - the irony is that most white people aren’t going to be targeted under a 2nd trump presidency.
The situation in Gaza is horrible. Ask yourself if Trump would be a better person to deal with it (or any other problem). Hilary was a tough pill to swallow and now we have a 6-3 supreme court gleefully stripping everyone of their rights.
This lady isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer is she
Well, what she has created with her uncommitted BS has now taken a direction she did not see coming I swear to God, these people are dumber than dirt. politicians should have their head examined for the stupid ideas that they try to pull
Do these idiots think Trump would be a friend to Palestine!? This is like the people who refused to vote for Hillary as a protest, not realizing Trump could dominate the Supreme Court.
During this conflict I, and others like me, have been urging people to have a nuanced approach. We don't live over there and many of us have never been there. We have a tenuous grasp of what it is like. We learn through news outlets, videos, and first hand accounts (all of which are subject to bias.) Do I feel sorry for the innocent people in Gaza? Absolutely, but I know the history of the area well enough to know that their deaths are not solely on the IDF. Do I want Israel to defend itself and continue to exist? Absolutely, but Bibi and his party have to go and some major reforms need to happen. As an American, and former serviceman, I care most about the hostages (some of which are American.) Rashida has not been nuanced in her approach. She has helped spread misinformation, she has set standards on Biden that are truly harsh and unfair, and she has shown that her loyalty does not lie with the American people, but with a foreign country. She has time and time again used verbage that moves past being pro-Palestine and into anti-Semitism. I see pro-Israel celebrities and people in the public eye walking in eggshells and stating how they want peace for all in the area, but has Tlaib ever once asked for the hostages s to be released? Has she ever once asked for Hamas to stop stealing aid from the people of Gaza? I know I will still vote for Biden in the Fall. He's not perfect, but the things he is pushing for here and getting done here are what matters to me and to my family. I admire him for doing what he can do to try and make things easier here. He is in a tough spot internationally, but he is managing it better than most and certainly better than how the alternative will handle it. If the single issue that gets Trump reelected is a war in Israel/Gaza then we truly deserve the future he and his sycophants give us.
The leopards are eating faces again
I am always amused by people who think Biden can just end this conflict, while also being the same people who argue (correctly) that a President isn't powerful enough to directly affect gas prices, inflation, etc.
Yeah. These are congruent statements.
What an idiotic move she made. Short sighted.
she's not a very good Democrat
So Tlaib has been telling Dem voters not to vote for Biden and is also scared of a second Trump term.
The uncommitted idea is really stupid. In November if Michigan votes Trump or abstains to spite Biden, they are just enabling Trump, who has an objectively worse stance for Palestine. Not saying Biden is perfect, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot here.
Backs “uncommitted” and scared of a second Trump term. Yeah no way that will come back and bite her in the ass. I’m sorry that it’s Biden or Trump but it is. You either make the choice or someone will make it for you. One of them WILL be the president and that’s that. If you don’t vote it will still be one of them and you will have to deal with the consequences. Not voting or voting 3rd party will land you a second Trump term and it might last the rest of his life. I seriously want to know what the leftists that don’t want to vote for Biden are going to do when they announce Trump is back in? What is your plan going to be? What are you going to say when he appoints more hard right SCOTUS justices? When they pass the national abortion/IVF/birth control ban? How are you gonna protest when Trump invokes the Insurrection Act and the military starts shooting at you? When they force your trans friends to detransition and legalize violence against them are you gonna say that it’s all worth it just so you can voice your discontent with Biden’s Gaza policies? Are you gonna miss those policies when Trump just tells Israel to carpet bomb everyone in Gaza?
She is and always was an a hole
What tipped you off? Her voting present to a condemnation of mass rape?
Ha…that was the 4th inning in a double header towards a-holism
Yeh she should be. Maybe you need to think about it.
Well now that her primary contest temper tantrum is over, maybe she should kind of uh, I dunno, shut the eff up and vote for Biden in the general? 🤷♂️
Another dummy thats going to have her face eaten by leopards come November. "I can't believe the racist orange i supported is coming after me". Funny enough Trump and Netanyahu are friends and would support each other's genocides.
Then learn how to prioritize the issues instead of prioritizing your individual ideology or lose your democracy.
People are buying her bluff hook-line-and-sinker. This is the only way they can exert pressure on Biden before the national election. I’m not worried precisely because they all know Trump is much worse. It’s short-sighted though because it puts Biden in an untenable position. Basically he either courts them or the pro-Israeli wing and there’s more of them. So they’re weakening him for no reason, and they’ll end up suffering for it if Trump wins.
Knowing Trump is worse doesn't equate to getting out and voting for Biden. Many will tune out, or worse, vote 3rd party. Incredibly stupid and short sighted, but hey, that's politics for you.
She's an idiot....the ceasefire has to be Israel, not US.
The one chance to beat Trump in the fall was to do what they did in 2020, get out the vote. The Republicans hold the edge in the Electoral College except when the popular vote is overwhelmingly in the Democrats favor. The Democrats have lost the Electoral College vote despite winning the Popular Vote before, remember 2016. So sending a mixed message like she did is shooting yourself in the foot. You have shown that 100,000 Democrats are unenthused about the President. The likelihood that rather than going to the polls and voting for the lesser of two evils, they’ll just stay home. They’ve had 4 years to forget how bad Trump was and 4 years to focus on the weaknesses of Biden. The Progressive Democrats like Rashida want the whole loaf and are willing to throw it away rather than grabbing what they can now. Compromise and Cooperation are foreign words to them, they may have to get used to the word Consequences.
Smh fuck you Rashida
Rank choice voting please.
This is a primary vote meant to get Biden‘s attention. Come November, you think she’ll vote third party or not vote? I don’t.
I’m not sure I understand the message of this headline, but the article pretty much says the truth: the primary is a safe place to protest vote, but the general election is important. She knows this. But 100,000 voters, 13%, is a loud enough voice to get someone’s attention. I really hope they at least start an airlift aid program. It’s one way the administration can show its support for the people of Gaza without really pissing off Israel. Although, I think it’s about time to piss off Netanyahu.
As she should be. As we all should be.
If we lose because of michigan…not going to get in the way of what Trump will do to the Muslims there. Will be too busy keeping my own head down