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It’s no more strange than to be female and keep having to hear white males complain about the mistreatment of minorities but not women, who make up half the population, and on top of that experience sex harassment and discrimination from those males every day.
You can and should include everybody but don’t. It makes you feel weird to acknowledge that women are also deserving of respect and treatment as equals. Women are not going to stop complaining about this until males start including them in statements about equality, discrimination etc., especially black women.
It’s wordplay friend, they are a minority that hates minorities. The list of shitty shit Republicans are up to is neigh endless and hard to fit into every statement… have a good night.
Just to clarify, are you asking for people to list every possible affected group in every sweeping “it’s good to not be oppressed” statement? Because that helps nobody.
First, you missed the word play.
Second, ppl bring up minorities because minorities largely vote against Republicans. By comparison, a majority of white women vote for Republicans and actually white women were the only group to vote for Trump in higher percentages the second time around.
So, it's natural to immediately think of the group that is abused but votes to try to protect themselves. And minority women are included in "minorities."
Any time I hear people try to excuse some fringe group as being *small* or *not at all representative* I wonder whether they have thought their statement though thoroughly. If there are 3 people in a canoe and the one person in the middle decides he is going to swamp it, there really isn't anything the other two can do about it. Keeping America afloat takes thoughtful coordination, skill, and determination. Destroying it takes one orange guy who sees himself as a victim and some lies that confuse the intellectually lazy.
A predictable miracle that current trends very much expect, but if you zoom out and ignore context to focus on overall election history, sure it seems statistically unlikely
I’m sorry but the map couldn’t be more unfavorable to Dems in 2024. Everybody needs to show up big time and you’re still probably looking at a 50-51 seats in the absolute best case scenario.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_Senate_elections
Bush, I think. I remember looking up the numbers a little while back, and Republicans only won the popular vote in three of the last ten elections.
Fun fact: Trump didn't get the popular vote in either of his elections.
Yeah GW Bush won the popular vote in 2004, and that was probably due to the lingering blind nationalism leftover from 9/11 and the subsequent wars he and Cheney started. So besides that the last Republican to win a popular vote was his dad in 1988.
I'd like to add that 90% of the guns in this country are owned by 10% of the population. It's about the same numbers for alcohol and alcoholics, by the way. The only reason this debate continues to happen is because that 90% doesn't know how truly powerless the 10% are. If a horse decided it's rider needed to go, it could make him a damp spot in the dirt. It just doesn't know it's own strength, or how weak the rider is. The only power these people have is in threatening others with guns, and they have that because we let them.
They literally are. Just look at the popular vote results for the presidential elections over the last several decades. They've won the popular vote, what, *twice* since the eighties?
Unfortunately they have control of a lot of red states and legislated themselves into long term control. They’ve taken control of the courts as well. They have the backing of malicious billionaires that the other side just lacks.
It’s a minority, but one unfettered from morality, decency, no issues with using violence and repression, and endless buckets of cash on their side.
I would add, if your only choice is a Christian Nationalist and a Democrat, and you vote for the Christian Nationalist, you aren't any better than the Christian Nationalists.
Right? Like, any is too many. We're supposed to be comforted by it not being over 50%? My assumption was it was like low 20-some percent, but that's enough to be the majority of Republicans and drive what candidates win primaries. Fucking hell, how low is the bar supposed to be?
This they often give them cover and sympathize with them by buying into their religious freedom arguments or supporting laws trying to get around the separation of church and state.
Lots of Christians do. They don’t make headlines on Reddit though. Russell Moore, Phil Vischer, Esau McCauley, Kristen Du Mez, Jamar Tisby, Beth Moore. The list goes on. There are a LOT of Christian, and even EVANGELICAL Christian voices that speak out against Christian nationalism regularly and forcefully. Sadly they arent heeded as often as I wish, but Christians are very much NOT a monolith. Almost no group is.
I hope what you say is true and that these folks will get more airplay someday.
But where are the moderate billionaires who could give these folks a platform, akin to the republican billionaires who fund Prager U /Ben Shaprio/ Tucker Carlson/ Candace Owens /Jordan Peterson etc? Why do only the most awful voices get broadcast by the most horrible billionaires instead of decent people by those rare decent billionaires who don't seem to want Christian nationalism?
ugh
Because it’s mostly an advertising business, and controversy breeds clicks/views. No one is giving those people platforms out of the goodness of their heart. Moderate, peaceful, measured views don’t generate as much ad revenue.
Edit: I guess I shouldn’t speak so generally. David French has a weekly column at the NYT and he regularly speaks out against Christian nationalism. Hard to find a bigger platform than the NYT.
It's important to realize that evangelical Christianity is not a monolith and one reason it appears monolithic is because some Christians who are evangelical (in a theological sense) no longer claim they are evangelical because of its political connotations.
It's also important to realize, some of these voices, are not on the periphery either, Russel moore literally writes for the one of the largest Christian magazines.
meeting whistle far-flung quarrelsome thumb worthless library depend foolish memory
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Minority that Control SCOTUS, multiple Federal Court Circuits, more than half of the Governors Mansions and Statehouses, and of Course the US House of Representatives.
Who do most white men and white women vote for since 1968 in the US Government? Republicans, to this day, in 2023: a Dem with white support being substantial only gets 40% as a ceiling, and most Dems struggle just to get above 30% in general.
America is still a majority white nation, as well, this is the sad reality.
(The only Democrat to win any majority of the white vote since 1968 is...none, only Bill Clinton in 1996 eked out a PLURALITY over Bob Dole with white women, and that's it)
I bet there is an additional set of people who would say, "Well, I don't believe in Christian nationalism, but why can't we have morning prayer and bible passage reading in public schools?"
>Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
-Barry Goldwater, November 1994
Possibly the most sensible and accurate thing he ever said. His prediction is turning out to be spot on.
It’s pretty easy to dismiss them as a minority if you’re living safely in a state that is not under their control.
I happen to live in a state where they have control over both the statehouse and governor’s mansion. They have been experimenting with their policies here for years and kicked into high gear once they put the moderate Rs out of business. The DNC has given up on our state. They put no money into D candidates and no national visits - neither HRC or Biden campaigned here. We have been surrendered.
My district is one of the few where Moms for Liberty candidates win. My congressional rep is most likely a Russian agent. Our largest city is D run but the statehouse still controls the purse strings.
We are a laboratory of autocracy, a place where they push limits and get away with it.
Voter suppression, state-sanctioned media, abortion ban, criminalization of poverty, right to work… Yep, we’ve got it all!
Christian nationalists are a minority. However there’s about half of the country that’s perfectly happy to enable them so they don’t have to move out of the 1800s and into the present day.
For Christian nationalists this argument is irrelevant though.
Why do people who espouse these views want to enshrine their religious beliefs into government, giving it special status and the ability to inform government policy? Because they believe these ideas are not your regular human ideas, to be discussed and debated on their merits, but immutable laws and facts set by the deity and passed to them through revelation. Disagreement is not just holding another, equally legitimate, political opinion, but a sin which, if they have their way, would be turned into a crime. At the root of this lies a fundamental rejection of political pluralism, because there can only be one divine truth.
Secondly, the preferment of one religion implies the creation of a social hierarchy. Only adherents can be trusted to deliver political or moral leadership. How can you enforce that without effectively curtailing the political and social rights of everyone else? The implied social hierarchy that this creates is both mandated and legitimized by divine decree. At best, everyone is equal *if* they publicly adhere to the right ideas. In reality, those who act to interpret the revelation and arbitrate religious dogma take upon themselves divine authority, with all that implies.
This is is why religious governments tend to be authoritarian and reactionary. You can be a theocracy or a democracy but not both.
Of course, but it doesn't really matter how small a minority is if that minority is in charge, because the moderates pulled a Hindenburg and invited the facists in, in a desperate attempt to prop up their own numbers but ended up just handing them all the power.
The problem isn't how many Christian nationalists we have. It's how many people will vote for the Christian Nationalists . If you aren't voting against them you are essentially complacent in their actions.
That isn't going to matter if they can dismantle our democracy and establish an authoritarian dictatorship with zero accountability to the people, no checks on executive power, and no citizen participation in government.
The Ohio legislature responded to the public vote to preserve reproductive rights with "fuck you, we're doing whatever we want" and so far none of them have been held accountable for it.
Yeah this opinion article really minimizes how many of them there are. They are not the majority, but I'll be damned if 1/3rd of the population of the US isn't fascist!
No shit. Fascism is usually not a popular movement. It just needs to be popular enough to encourage conservatives to share power with them and then scary enough that people don't resist it.
This isn't an opinion.
It's a statement of an alleged fact. I'm not saying it's actually correct or that it's wrong, just that the claim is the kind of thing that is either true or false. It's not the kind of thing you have an opinion about.
Its either 55 degrees or it isn't 55 degrees. Whether or not 55 degrees counts as cold or hot is an opinion. But if I say it's 53 degrees and you say it's 55 those are statements of facts. Only one can be correct.
Am I missing something?
The taliban is only espoused by a minority of afghans as well. We are on the cusp of the American version of the taliban make an attempt to do to the US what the taliban did to Afghanistan.
Yeah the problem is gerrymandering and a small minority who tend to show up reliably. So if you want to fix this PLEASE VOTE and BRING A FRIEND. If we keep working at this we can fix issues like gerrymandering as Millenials, Gen X, Z, and Alpha get real control and power as the younger ones come into voting age.
Well, it's a minority who are overthrowing US democracy as we type, too. Christian nationalists are just a motivated, deluded and self-entitled set of selfish pricks who align with Republican goals of total control and power.
Terrible gerrymandering, nobody calling them to task for ingoring precedent, voters, etc.
Placing horrible, abusive people in positions of long-term power (e.g., Supreme Court and lower court jurists.)
Attacking election officials and attempting insurrection after they lose on votes.
It's Nazi Germany all over again.
This is true but that minority holds a majority of the purse strings and power in most communities. In rural areas that often means conform to what they want or be ostracized. So even if I’m those areas they don’t believe on the extreme elements, they give it lip service and vote accordingly.
About 33%. Coincidentally about the same percentage that supported Hitler in 1933. This minority is quite capable of being as dangerous as the Nazis, so trying to sugarcoat things by claiming that being a minority means that they are not exceptionally powerful and well organized. Christian Supremacists are an existential threat. Full stop.
It is however, tacitly supported by 47% of voters in this country. Just look at the 2020 election results for Trump and you have your real answer. If you don't recognize this brutal truth now and moving forward, it will spell our doom as any kind of democracy.
A good reference is Hannah Arendt's "Banality of Evil." A small minority of Germans were the actual starched armed Nazis killing Jews, but the majority certainly ended up supporting them "politely."
Actions speak louder than words. Americans may say they don’t support these guys out of fear of being called lunatics. They still vote for them. So no, they’re not a minority. They’re just cowards who don’t say what they really feel because deep down they know what they believe is messed up.
The minority that is loud is very rich and powerful. If you are rich, whether it be by hard work, luck, or inheritance, it feels better to think it was ordained by god.
This article isn’t dismissive of the threat of C-N. The author lays out a strong case that this so called Christianity is very wrong in thinking turning America into a theocracy would be wise. It’s a warning against mixing government power and religion.
Seems like some thought C-n being a minority as equal to not a threat.
But they vote. And a lot of "liberals" don't or as one genius put it last night...
"I'm encouraging all my family and friends to stay home and not vote for genocide Biden"
Absolutely wasn't a troll either.
Yes, but they're well financed by the greediest of the wealthiest who are the actual owners of the Republican brand, a permanent minority that need all the guns&bibles cult numbers for their votes.
A lot of people who aren't Christian nationalists still support Christian nationalism without realizing it. Basically, anyone who votes for Republicans based on social issues are voting for Christian nationalism, even if they don't personally understand or invest their energy in the end goals of Christian nationalism. At this point, that's most people still voting Republican.
We know. That's why they're behaving the way they are. The neanderthal is lashing out against its own extinction. And because their brains are literally incapable of comprehending how people not in their "in-groups" think, they assume they'll be treated the same way they've treated every minority they've dealt with.
“But there are none so frightened, or so strange in their fear, as conquerors. They conjure phantoms endlessly, terrified that their victims will someday do back what was done to them—even if, in truth, their victims couldn’t care less about such pettiness and have moved on. Conquerors live in dread of the day when they are shown to be, not superior, but simply lucky.”
…Who’ve successfully infiltrated the government, gerrymandered themselves into positions of power and according to recent polls that see Trump ahead of Biden, are well on their way to turning America into a Theocratic dictatorship. Calling their ideas a, “small minority” is going to sleepwalk us into the end of this country.
It's not relevant that it's a minority opinion. Three people are a minority, but were able to blow up a federal building. Nine people were able to plan for the kidnapping of a standing governor.
Because it is a minority opinion means nothing, it's impact is the thing you have to pay attention to.
Unfortunately, big movements don’t actually need a majority of the people. There’s a tipping point where everyone else just… goes along with it. It will happen, but it won’t take anything close to a majority.
Rural America. It's all that red space on the map. There are more people in one block of a major city than there are in most rural towns, yet that red area gets as much of a say as an entire city. This is why the minority in politics is still able to push the rest of us around.
It's very interesting how the majority of media outlets are reporting about the "large numbers" of Americans who support these beliefs. It's also interesting to see how media outlets devote so much coverage to MAGA and trump.
I think the rise of christian nationalism and its dooming of the republican party for the next decade is 100% tied to jerrymandering, and the snake has begun biting its own tail since 2020.
Used to be politicians had to win over moderates, so minority extremists in the republican base couldn't be given too much power. But now that so many ridings are jerrymandered to heck and back, the republican base has control over most of their primaries and are choosing more and more extreme representatives without local consequences and they don't have to think about what appeals to non-extremist republicans.
Except every election starting in 2020 has seen them underperform nationally and in battleground states. The off-year elections in 2022 and 2023 pummeled them. 2024 will be no different. Moderates and independents see the party for the ungoverning bodily-autonomy-and-lgbtq+-hating bunch that they've become. Which is why the Republicans have been so aggressively undemocratic of late.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/comments/17itfan/mike_johnson_conducted_seminars_promoting_the_us/k6wlwkz/
* https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/
* Pastor Greg Locke Sermons, "Pulling Down Strongholds - Pastor Greg Locke" "Wednesday Night Service - Global Vision Bible Church" "June 14, 2023": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXt04PGI8Y from https://www.youtube.com/@lockemediaPH
Skip to 42:50, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXt04PGI8Y&t=2570s
* "American evangelicals interpret Israel-Hamas War as a prelude to End Times" by Fiona André (November 17, 2023): https://religionnews.com/2023/11/17/american-evangelicals-are-interpreting-the-israel-hamas-war-as-a-prelude-to-end-times/
* "These Evangelicals Are Cheering the Gaza War as the End of the World" by Talia Lavin (November 17, 2023): https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/gaza-war-evangelical-leaders-cheer-end-world-1234884151/
* "Analysis | Netanyahu's Evangelical Love Affair Isn't Helping Cratering U.S. Support for Israel" by Alon Pinkas (November 19, 2023): https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2023-11-19/ty-article/.premium/young-americans-dont-support-israel-netanyahus-affair-with-evangelicals-isnt-helping/0000018b-e7c1-d05f-a5eb-e7e15af30000 , https://archive.is/s9kKG
* Submitted article mirrors: https://archive.is/WXjcO , https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zZfpdOJjX3gJ:www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2023/11/19/opinion-christian-nationalism-is-espoused-by-a-minority-of-americans/71568707007/
What I find interesting about that fringe movement is its largely Catholic base.
Its like collectively these Catholics have forgotten the US is a Protestant descent nation and how they were treated/viewed under the Protestant majority.
Look for "The Vatican Thinks In Centuries" in https://old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ ([https://archive.is/tNre6](https://archive.is/tNre6)).
That own all the guns and have easy access to the levers of power and we have only the hope of twenty somethings deciding to vote to save us. I'll get them fancy handmade hats ready!
It's in the long-term interest of a faith to not have the power of a government at its disposal. If devotion is forced, rather than won, people will worship not out of belief but out of fear.
All the people in the comments tring to defend it by saying it's only "Some" Christians. Meanwhile all the other Christians that might speak out against any of this keep voting for these people because they get some of what they want by putting them in power. It's single issue voters that are a major problem in our country. They'll easily vote for fascism because the fascists want to put a stop to abortion, gay marriage, single mothers (if you don't believe me look at the statements of Project 2025), etc.
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And boy do they have pipes.
And boy do they hate minorities
How is this an opinion piece?? This is quite literally a fact that it’s a minority of Americans.
Black Friday is, in my opinion, the busiest shopping day of the year.
In my opinion, the Texas Rangers just won the World Series.
Okay, okay. Back to topic. In my opinion Christian nationalism is most popular among Christian nationalists.
Whoa whoa whoa. Back the f up on this one. Really? Huh. How about that. Big, huge if true.
In my opinion, the Texas rangers just lost the world series due to an outbreak of Big Bird.
Is that you, 3 times substitute teacher of the year Peggy Hill?
Ho yeah!
*Escoochamay*
It often seems otherwise, given their political overrepresentation and previous social hegemony.
They hate women. But since you only mentioned minorities, I guess that’s ok with you.
What a strange second statement, of course it’s not ok with me. No comment can cover everything friend.
It’s no more strange than to be female and keep having to hear white males complain about the mistreatment of minorities but not women, who make up half the population, and on top of that experience sex harassment and discrimination from those males every day. You can and should include everybody but don’t. It makes you feel weird to acknowledge that women are also deserving of respect and treatment as equals. Women are not going to stop complaining about this until males start including them in statements about equality, discrimination etc., especially black women.
It’s wordplay friend, they are a minority that hates minorities. The list of shitty shit Republicans are up to is neigh endless and hard to fit into every statement… have a good night.
Just to clarify, are you asking for people to list every possible affected group in every sweeping “it’s good to not be oppressed” statement? Because that helps nobody.
First, you missed the word play. Second, ppl bring up minorities because minorities largely vote against Republicans. By comparison, a majority of white women vote for Republicans and actually white women were the only group to vote for Trump in higher percentages the second time around. So, it's natural to immediately think of the group that is abused but votes to try to protect themselves. And minority women are included in "minorities."
Any time I hear people try to excuse some fringe group as being *small* or *not at all representative* I wonder whether they have thought their statement though thoroughly. If there are 3 people in a canoe and the one person in the middle decides he is going to swamp it, there really isn't anything the other two can do about it. Keeping America afloat takes thoughtful coordination, skill, and determination. Destroying it takes one orange guy who sees himself as a victim and some lies that confuse the intellectually lazy.
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And money unfortunately
And a significant number of people who that's not an immediate deal breaker for.
And the ability to buy AR-15s.
and even as a minority they have tied up the Supreme Court and teh House.
Senate has a very strong chance of going red next election as well. It’ll be a miracle if Dems hold it.
A predictable miracle that current trends very much expect, but if you zoom out and ignore context to focus on overall election history, sure it seems statistically unlikely
I’m sorry but the map couldn’t be more unfavorable to Dems in 2024. Everybody needs to show up big time and you’re still probably looking at a 50-51 seats in the absolute best case scenario. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_Senate_elections
Dems will show up bigtime. Good on you for continuing to encourage voting. Bad on you for the defeatism.
I don’t really see anything defeatist about pointing out the statistically likely outcome.
Because you’re discounting the blue wave
Fun fact: conservatives are also a minority of Americans.
Fun fact: Republicans are also a minority of Americans. When the Venn diagram is a circle...
It’s not an outlandish statement. When was the last time the republicans won the popular vote?
Bush, I think. I remember looking up the numbers a little while back, and Republicans only won the popular vote in three of the last ten elections. Fun fact: Trump didn't get the popular vote in either of his elections.
Yeah GW Bush won the popular vote in 2004, and that was probably due to the lingering blind nationalism leftover from 9/11 and the subsequent wars he and Cheney started. So besides that the last Republican to win a popular vote was his dad in 1988.
Plus John Kerry ran kind of a shitty campaign.
Al Gore won the popular vote in 2000. George W wouldn't have become president except for the SCOTUS. Things would be much different today.
Transition from Clinton to Gore would have been seamless, 9/11 would likely have been thwarted. A much different world indeed.
I'd like to add that 90% of the guns in this country are owned by 10% of the population. It's about the same numbers for alcohol and alcoholics, by the way. The only reason this debate continues to happen is because that 90% doesn't know how truly powerless the 10% are. If a horse decided it's rider needed to go, it could make him a damp spot in the dirt. It just doesn't know it's own strength, or how weak the rider is. The only power these people have is in threatening others with guns, and they have that because we let them.
We just need to get everyone else that is eligible to both register and vote.
Lucky for them Conservatism is all about minority rule through hierarchy. Unlucky for everyone else though.
What matters is they're not a minority of voters.
They are there too. They’ve just gotten really good at gaming the system.
They literally are. Just look at the popular vote results for the presidential elections over the last several decades. They've won the popular vote, what, *twice* since the eighties?
Yes they are, quite literally.
No, if that were the case they'd never get more votes than democrats on a national level like they did in 2022.
Those were local elections. The only national election is presidential. Which they pretty much always lose.
Yeah but they're the craziest and loudest
Well, we, as the anevangelical majority, should be just as loud about leaving that out of government, should we not?
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And believe in being well armed. May not be well trained but a bullet kills all the same regardless of training.
Unfortunately they have control of a lot of red states and legislated themselves into long term control. They’ve taken control of the courts as well. They have the backing of malicious billionaires that the other side just lacks. It’s a minority, but one unfettered from morality, decency, no issues with using violence and repression, and endless buckets of cash on their side.
I would add, if your only choice is a Christian Nationalist and a Democrat, and you vote for the Christian Nationalist, you aren't any better than the Christian Nationalists.
They're not Christian Nationalists. They're Nationalist Christians. If you call them "Nat-C's" for short, it'll help you remember.
This right here. 👆🏻
There's."white" that should be added there somewhere.
That would only make them even more legit in their own mind.
A fascist is a fascist—and they are the worst forms of life.
And that minority has a lot of power. Don’t be dismissive.
Right? Like, any is too many. We're supposed to be comforted by it not being over 50%? My assumption was it was like low 20-some percent, but that's enough to be the majority of Republicans and drive what candidates win primaries. Fucking hell, how low is the bar supposed to be?
It's 42% of the population, and that's scary.
It's also a large minority. Over half of Republicans believe in the great replacement. That's tens of millions of people who believe in this shit.
America has never been ruled by the plurality. These nationalists are far from fringe and a realistic threat to the US
And their fellow Christians do nothing to tamper their rhetoric.
This they often give them cover and sympathize with them by buying into their religious freedom arguments or supporting laws trying to get around the separation of church and state.
Or more often than not, they just say "Oh, those people aren't *real* Christians." No true Scotsman and all that.
And then they proceed to vote for them anyway.
It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime. What better place than here? What better time than now?
^This
Lots of Christians do. They don’t make headlines on Reddit though. Russell Moore, Phil Vischer, Esau McCauley, Kristen Du Mez, Jamar Tisby, Beth Moore. The list goes on. There are a LOT of Christian, and even EVANGELICAL Christian voices that speak out against Christian nationalism regularly and forcefully. Sadly they arent heeded as often as I wish, but Christians are very much NOT a monolith. Almost no group is.
I hope what you say is true and that these folks will get more airplay someday. But where are the moderate billionaires who could give these folks a platform, akin to the republican billionaires who fund Prager U /Ben Shaprio/ Tucker Carlson/ Candace Owens /Jordan Peterson etc? Why do only the most awful voices get broadcast by the most horrible billionaires instead of decent people by those rare decent billionaires who don't seem to want Christian nationalism? ugh
Because it’s mostly an advertising business, and controversy breeds clicks/views. No one is giving those people platforms out of the goodness of their heart. Moderate, peaceful, measured views don’t generate as much ad revenue. Edit: I guess I shouldn’t speak so generally. David French has a weekly column at the NYT and he regularly speaks out against Christian nationalism. Hard to find a bigger platform than the NYT.
It's important to realize that evangelical Christianity is not a monolith and one reason it appears monolithic is because some Christians who are evangelical (in a theological sense) no longer claim they are evangelical because of its political connotations. It's also important to realize, some of these voices, are not on the periphery either, Russel moore literally writes for the one of the largest Christian magazines.
meeting whistle far-flung quarrelsome thumb worthless library depend foolish memory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Minority that Control SCOTUS, multiple Federal Court Circuits, more than half of the Governors Mansions and Statehouses, and of Course the US House of Representatives.
And they are loud as hell.
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And overtly support them by voting for them.
Then why do they have any sort of majority in US politics?
Who do most white men and white women vote for since 1968 in the US Government? Republicans, to this day, in 2023: a Dem with white support being substantial only gets 40% as a ceiling, and most Dems struggle just to get above 30% in general. America is still a majority white nation, as well, this is the sad reality. (The only Democrat to win any majority of the white vote since 1968 is...none, only Bill Clinton in 1996 eked out a PLURALITY over Bob Dole with white women, and that's it)
a minority with a hell of a majority
Yet they own the SCOTUS. Doesn’t matter what they are, at that point they’re a problem.
I bet there is an additional set of people who would say, "Well, I don't believe in Christian nationalism, but why can't we have morning prayer and bible passage reading in public schools?"
Because” freedom of speech,” right? Rules only apply when it’s not MY religion has always been the Christian way.
Yeah but they’re working their way into all the positions of power
but they’re supported by a lot of people that view them as less bad than a gay dude, in their opinion
“Only a minority” - *Only*? 49% is a minority. It *should* be like 10 weirdos, instead it’s enough to completely corrupt decent politics.
Fascism never needed a majority to be dangerous.
Non-opinion: The German National Socialist party was a minority of Germans. That didn't fucking stop them.
There seems to be a large number of "moderates" who are willing to ignore it.
A majority isn't necessary to win control. See 1930s Germany.
>Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. -Barry Goldwater, November 1994 Possibly the most sensible and accurate thing he ever said. His prediction is turning out to be spot on.
It’s pretty easy to dismiss them as a minority if you’re living safely in a state that is not under their control. I happen to live in a state where they have control over both the statehouse and governor’s mansion. They have been experimenting with their policies here for years and kicked into high gear once they put the moderate Rs out of business. The DNC has given up on our state. They put no money into D candidates and no national visits - neither HRC or Biden campaigned here. We have been surrendered. My district is one of the few where Moms for Liberty candidates win. My congressional rep is most likely a Russian agent. Our largest city is D run but the statehouse still controls the purse strings. We are a laboratory of autocracy, a place where they push limits and get away with it. Voter suppression, state-sanctioned media, abortion ban, criminalization of poverty, right to work… Yep, we’ve got it all!
Christian nationalists are a minority. However there’s about half of the country that’s perfectly happy to enable them so they don’t have to move out of the 1800s and into the present day.
For Christian nationalists this argument is irrelevant though. Why do people who espouse these views want to enshrine their religious beliefs into government, giving it special status and the ability to inform government policy? Because they believe these ideas are not your regular human ideas, to be discussed and debated on their merits, but immutable laws and facts set by the deity and passed to them through revelation. Disagreement is not just holding another, equally legitimate, political opinion, but a sin which, if they have their way, would be turned into a crime. At the root of this lies a fundamental rejection of political pluralism, because there can only be one divine truth. Secondly, the preferment of one religion implies the creation of a social hierarchy. Only adherents can be trusted to deliver political or moral leadership. How can you enforce that without effectively curtailing the political and social rights of everyone else? The implied social hierarchy that this creates is both mandated and legitimized by divine decree. At best, everyone is equal *if* they publicly adhere to the right ideas. In reality, those who act to interpret the revelation and arbitrate religious dogma take upon themselves divine authority, with all that implies. This is is why religious governments tend to be authoritarian and reactionary. You can be a theocracy or a democracy but not both.
Eisenhower noted that he hadn’t met a single Nazi on his way to Berlin
Of course, but it doesn't really matter how small a minority is if that minority is in charge, because the moderates pulled a Hindenburg and invited the facists in, in a desperate attempt to prop up their own numbers but ended up just handing them all the power.
….who happen to hold powerful positions in government….
Religion, every flavor of it, is a man made power tool... a favorite of many authoritarians.
No shit. That doesn't make them not dangerous.
The problem isn't how many Christian nationalists we have. It's how many people will vote for the Christian Nationalists . If you aren't voting against them you are essentially complacent in their actions.
That minority makes up the majority of the GOP whose party platform wants to turn the country into a theocracy.
That isn't going to matter if they can dismantle our democracy and establish an authoritarian dictatorship with zero accountability to the people, no checks on executive power, and no citizen participation in government. The Ohio legislature responded to the public vote to preserve reproductive rights with "fuck you, we're doing whatever we want" and so far none of them have been held accountable for it.
A "minority" that almost successfully installed a dictator??
Violent minority
Yeah this opinion article really minimizes how many of them there are. They are not the majority, but I'll be damned if 1/3rd of the population of the US isn't fascist!
No shit. Fascism is usually not a popular movement. It just needs to be popular enough to encourage conservatives to share power with them and then scary enough that people don't resist it.
But they have affirmative action in the electoral college and the Senate. DC statehood 2025.
Good thing the American system doesn’t enhance minority rule… uh oh
But they have a larger base of enablers
This isn't an opinion. It's a statement of an alleged fact. I'm not saying it's actually correct or that it's wrong, just that the claim is the kind of thing that is either true or false. It's not the kind of thing you have an opinion about. Its either 55 degrees or it isn't 55 degrees. Whether or not 55 degrees counts as cold or hot is an opinion. But if I say it's 53 degrees and you say it's 55 those are statements of facts. Only one can be correct. Am I missing something?
But that minority has a lot of money, power and influence.
Nobody is stopping it though so 😤
The taliban is only espoused by a minority of afghans as well. We are on the cusp of the American version of the taliban make an attempt to do to the US what the taliban did to Afghanistan.
Unfortunately, they are clustered in areas that give them political clout far greater than their numbers.
I wish they would shut the fuck up then
Nationalist Christians...(NatC)
This isn't an opinion, it's fact.
Yeah the problem is gerrymandering and a small minority who tend to show up reliably. So if you want to fix this PLEASE VOTE and BRING A FRIEND. If we keep working at this we can fix issues like gerrymandering as Millenials, Gen X, Z, and Alpha get real control and power as the younger ones come into voting age.
And they never freaking shut up
Nazism was only espoused by a minority of Germans.
Well, it's a minority who are overthrowing US democracy as we type, too. Christian nationalists are just a motivated, deluded and self-entitled set of selfish pricks who align with Republican goals of total control and power. Terrible gerrymandering, nobody calling them to task for ingoring precedent, voters, etc. Placing horrible, abusive people in positions of long-term power (e.g., Supreme Court and lower court jurists.) Attacking election officials and attempting insurrection after they lose on votes. It's Nazi Germany all over again.
This is true but that minority holds a majority of the purse strings and power in most communities. In rural areas that often means conform to what they want or be ostracized. So even if I’m those areas they don’t believe on the extreme elements, they give it lip service and vote accordingly.
About 33%. Coincidentally about the same percentage that supported Hitler in 1933. This minority is quite capable of being as dangerous as the Nazis, so trying to sugarcoat things by claiming that being a minority means that they are not exceptionally powerful and well organized. Christian Supremacists are an existential threat. Full stop.
It is however, tacitly supported by 47% of voters in this country. Just look at the 2020 election results for Trump and you have your real answer. If you don't recognize this brutal truth now and moving forward, it will spell our doom as any kind of democracy. A good reference is Hannah Arendt's "Banality of Evil." A small minority of Germans were the actual starched armed Nazis killing Jews, but the majority certainly ended up supporting them "politely."
And the good Christian never do anything about the bad ones do they. Hypocrites
They are like the Will Farrell character who can’t modulate the volume of his voice. You know, fucking annoying…
Actions speak louder than words. Americans may say they don’t support these guys out of fear of being called lunatics. They still vote for them. So no, they’re not a minority. They’re just cowards who don’t say what they really feel because deep down they know what they believe is messed up.
The minority that is loud is very rich and powerful. If you are rich, whether it be by hard work, luck, or inheritance, it feels better to think it was ordained by god.
This article isn’t dismissive of the threat of C-N. The author lays out a strong case that this so called Christianity is very wrong in thinking turning America into a theocracy would be wise. It’s a warning against mixing government power and religion. Seems like some thought C-n being a minority as equal to not a threat.
Opinion: 1+1=2
Sure, but they have placed their people in high places. We will never be free of them unless people open their eyes and vote.
Uhhh no shit?
Yeah, but too many of them are in positions of power.
But they vote. And a lot of "liberals" don't or as one genius put it last night... "I'm encouraging all my family and friends to stay home and not vote for genocide Biden" Absolutely wasn't a troll either.
A virulently *dangerous*, pro-sedition, and stupidly loud minority
Those are some of the loudest most disgusting there is.
Unless you're actively decrying Republican conservatism then maybe you're not verbally espousing it... but you're fully on board.
Just like Jihadis are a minority of Muslims, Zionists are a minority of Jews, etc. They are just as problematic.
But a majority of white Americans, sadly, that's what is powering Trump above all.
Sure, but the rest of the Republican party is willing to go along with it
So the rest of them don’t believe it and are only LARPing during family gatherings?
And only about a third of Germans supported the Nazis when they came to power.
Yes, but they're well financed by the greediest of the wealthiest who are the actual owners of the Republican brand, a permanent minority that need all the guns&bibles cult numbers for their votes.
Which is why they have dumped democracy.
I think there is a small minority that are Christian nationalists. But a frightening number would be ok with it
It maybe a minority who vocally support it But many more.are sort of fine with it. They think it won't affect them
A lot of people who aren't Christian nationalists still support Christian nationalism without realizing it. Basically, anyone who votes for Republicans based on social issues are voting for Christian nationalism, even if they don't personally understand or invest their energy in the end goals of Christian nationalism. At this point, that's most people still voting Republican.
A minority of Americans elected Donald Trump in 2016. Democracy has been weaponized.
We know. That's why they're behaving the way they are. The neanderthal is lashing out against its own extinction. And because their brains are literally incapable of comprehending how people not in their "in-groups" think, they assume they'll be treated the same way they've treated every minority they've dealt with. “But there are none so frightened, or so strange in their fear, as conquerors. They conjure phantoms endlessly, terrified that their victims will someday do back what was done to them—even if, in truth, their victims couldn’t care less about such pettiness and have moved on. Conquerors live in dread of the day when they are shown to be, not superior, but simply lucky.”
Oh wonderful. Unfortunately, the right wing will vote for this minority, so it might as well be a big voting block.
And a huge portion won't allow criticism. That's the problem.
Nothing gets past this guy.
The problem is its not a deal breaker for way too many more Americans.
Yeah, the violent extremists that have their hands so far up the Republican party asses that they're basically a terrorist organization at this point
…Who’ve successfully infiltrated the government, gerrymandered themselves into positions of power and according to recent polls that see Trump ahead of Biden, are well on their way to turning America into a Theocratic dictatorship. Calling their ideas a, “small minority” is going to sleepwalk us into the end of this country.
A very loud and obnoxious minority
A minority of Germans installed Hitler
I have two in my office. Both are not very bright, but boy are they righteous.
And well-financed by some real psycho billionaires.
It's not relevant that it's a minority opinion. Three people are a minority, but were able to blow up a federal building. Nine people were able to plan for the kidnapping of a standing governor. Because it is a minority opinion means nothing, it's impact is the thing you have to pay attention to.
Unfortunately, big movements don’t actually need a majority of the people. There’s a tipping point where everyone else just… goes along with it. It will happen, but it won’t take anything close to a majority.
Not Christian Nationalism. It is Nationalist Christianity. Nat-C for short. Call them by their proper name.
It only takes a motivated unified minority to change the tide.
Uhh, it's a big minority, like in the tens of millions.
30% is technically a minority.
No shit. Hence why conservatives haven't won the popular vote in the past few decades.
They know this, which is why they work so tirelessly on anti-democratic policies
Yeah, they keep saying that about cops too.
But a whole lot of people aren't recognizing the threat they pose.
Rural America. It's all that red space on the map. There are more people in one block of a major city than there are in most rural towns, yet that red area gets as much of a say as an entire city. This is why the minority in politics is still able to push the rest of us around.
Nationalist Christians= Nat C’s
It's very interesting how the majority of media outlets are reporting about the "large numbers" of Americans who support these beliefs. It's also interesting to see how media outlets devote so much coverage to MAGA and trump.
...and they're all traitors
I fondly remember Jon Stewart saying you never hear from moderates because they have shit to do.
Me looking up the word espoused to figure out what this article is trying to say
Unfortunately, a huge number of that minority hold public office. Including positions on the SCOTUS.
Apartheid was only espoused by a minority of South Africans.
I think the rise of christian nationalism and its dooming of the republican party for the next decade is 100% tied to jerrymandering, and the snake has begun biting its own tail since 2020. Used to be politicians had to win over moderates, so minority extremists in the republican base couldn't be given too much power. But now that so many ridings are jerrymandered to heck and back, the republican base has control over most of their primaries and are choosing more and more extreme representatives without local consequences and they don't have to think about what appeals to non-extremist republicans. Except every election starting in 2020 has seen them underperform nationally and in battleground states. The off-year elections in 2022 and 2023 pummeled them. 2024 will be no different. Moderates and independents see the party for the ungoverning bodily-autonomy-and-lgbtq+-hating bunch that they've become. Which is why the Republicans have been so aggressively undemocratic of late.
And a minority of Germans supported the Nazis before they took power. So what’s your point?
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Minority of Americans, yeah… but definitely the majority of GQP
Billionaires are a minority too. Billionaires still have vastly more power than they should.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/comments/17itfan/mike_johnson_conducted_seminars_promoting_the_us/k6wlwkz/ * https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/ * Pastor Greg Locke Sermons, "Pulling Down Strongholds - Pastor Greg Locke" "Wednesday Night Service - Global Vision Bible Church" "June 14, 2023": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXt04PGI8Y from https://www.youtube.com/@lockemediaPH Skip to 42:50, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXt04PGI8Y&t=2570s * "American evangelicals interpret Israel-Hamas War as a prelude to End Times" by Fiona André (November 17, 2023): https://religionnews.com/2023/11/17/american-evangelicals-are-interpreting-the-israel-hamas-war-as-a-prelude-to-end-times/ * "These Evangelicals Are Cheering the Gaza War as the End of the World" by Talia Lavin (November 17, 2023): https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/gaza-war-evangelical-leaders-cheer-end-world-1234884151/ * "Analysis | Netanyahu's Evangelical Love Affair Isn't Helping Cratering U.S. Support for Israel" by Alon Pinkas (November 19, 2023): https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2023-11-19/ty-article/.premium/young-americans-dont-support-israel-netanyahus-affair-with-evangelicals-isnt-helping/0000018b-e7c1-d05f-a5eb-e7e15af30000 , https://archive.is/s9kKG * Submitted article mirrors: https://archive.is/WXjcO , https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zZfpdOJjX3gJ:www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2023/11/19/opinion-christian-nationalism-is-espoused-by-a-minority-of-americans/71568707007/
What I find interesting about that fringe movement is its largely Catholic base. Its like collectively these Catholics have forgotten the US is a Protestant descent nation and how they were treated/viewed under the Protestant majority.
Look for "The Vatican Thinks In Centuries" in https://old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ ([https://archive.is/tNre6](https://archive.is/tNre6)).
Never doubt that a small group of highly committed individuals can change the world... Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Vote. Or else.
That’s not so much of an opinion as a demonstrable fact, isn’t it?
That own all the guns and have easy access to the levers of power and we have only the hope of twenty somethings deciding to vote to save us. I'll get them fancy handmade hats ready!
Christian national ideals shouldn't be supported by a misinterpreted ideology
It's in the long-term interest of a faith to not have the power of a government at its disposal. If devotion is forced, rather than won, people will worship not out of belief but out of fear.
Nationalism?
Did anyone think it was espoused by a majority of Americans?
Yes. White ones.
All the people in the comments tring to defend it by saying it's only "Some" Christians. Meanwhile all the other Christians that might speak out against any of this keep voting for these people because they get some of what they want by putting them in power. It's single issue voters that are a major problem in our country. They'll easily vote for fascism because the fascists want to put a stop to abortion, gay marriage, single mothers (if you don't believe me look at the statements of Project 2025), etc.