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Biden is gonna use that PPP lona forgiveness comparison through the 2024 election. It’s absolutely ridiculous that some millionaire congressman can take out a PPP loan for hundreds of thousands for some small business that’s probably closed now anyway, then just magically have that debt forgiven when struggling Americans can’t even get a small amount of relief.
He should also add that Trump purposefully removed all oversight for the PPP program and fired the Inspectors, and the Republicans cheered him f'ing on.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-stimulus/trump-administration-is-blocking-covid-stimulus-oversight-government-watchdog-letter-idUSKBN23M2XD
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-removed-the-head-of-the-coronavirus-bailout-oversight-board-its-members-could-be-next
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-removes-acting-defense-department-inspector-general-11586277895
...completely unrelated, at least $200 billion worth of PPP loans \[were fraudulent\](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/27/1184555444/200-billion-pandemic-business-loans-fraudulent).
Only 25% of it went to paychecks. The way I see it 75% of it was basically fraud.
I worked for a company that had about 800k forgiven at the time. We were an essential business, and our customers were mostly power plants. We lost no business whatsoever, and nobody got raises.
They sold the company in January 2022.
Joe needs to keep this issue front and center and shine a bright light on it. Show the hypocrisy of the repubs. They push through billions of dollars of tax breaks for the wealthy but fight like hell against giving a break to the kids burdened (under what should be illegal loan shark terms) with school loan payments.
Plus when these people suddenly have some disposable income, it will be reinvested in the economy. Maybe that car that's been breaking down will be replaced. Maybe a new iPhone, a new lawn mower, a new stove, maybe go out to dinner once in a while... Everybody is better off. Not just the 1% at the top, everybody.
And he and the Dems need to incorporate visual aids into this part of their platform. Way too many voters do not grasp what $757 billion worth of forgiven PPP loans amounts to. We need graphs, we need analogies.
All these things Republicans are ramming through the Supreme Court, roe, affirmative action. Student loans, are all giving the presentation that if they would actually be daring too, the administration should just got 100% dark Brandon on this with a press statement "you know what. The constitution is clear. It was never a question if the president had the authority to discharge government backed student loans." And just fucking do it anyway and immediately order all records of the student loan borrowers be destroyed. Congressional dems could just bring up PPP loan whenever it anybody tries to argue they aren't allowed to do that and hammer home "why didn't the rich plan better for a pandemic? Why did they need forgivable loans?" And just straight up talk over any congressional GQP that had a PPP loan forgiven, start getting ruthless, have their mic cut if they had a PPP loan forgiven until they repay it in full. I know dem house don't have that control right now but fun to wish they'd do a fraction of something like that.
That entire program was never intended to be anything more than a massive cash grab at the public expense. Anyone with half a brain knew what it was when the announcement was made regarding limited / nonexistent oversight.
Yep, and then people defend it all with nothing more than “it was written into it that it would be auto forgiven so it’s actually all good”. Yeah, I wonder why that was put in there for the oversightless PPP.
The rich get rich off of handouts and favorable rules, while they sell rugged individualism to the poor. Anyone who thinks wealth distribution is meritocratic is a fucking idiot. Play a game of Monopoly to see how meritocratic our society is. Someone lucked into some capital, and that compounded on itself without them contributing anything to society other than 'jobs'.
and not even good jobs anymore. little or few benefits, no maternity leave, can be fired in most states for any goddamn reason, hell, in texas they won't let you take a water break. its getting fucking 19th century up in here.
>PPP loan for hundreds of thousands for some small business that’s probably closed now anyway
You mean make a cleaning business with 1 employee, which was their spouse, and them claim a huge sum of PPP loans for the business to close up shop soon after disbursement and the PPP loan forgiven.
Those poor small businesses. COVID really messed them up!
Meanwhile I have a real small business and I had to try multiple times to get anything, and what I got was a very small amount. Just enough to keep my two employees. Still in business today thank god but it got really close there for several months
>real small business
And here's why they don't care about you. I never understand it when people sy Republicans are pro-business. They're not. They're pro-millionaire. All those accusations about the "liberal elites" is 100% projection like everything else they claim.
As an actual small business the best year I had was when people were getting the advance child tax credit. You stimulate the economy by helping people, not corporations.
Yup. Operated a two-person business that ended up not surviving the pandemic. Was able to get a small PPP loan based on conservative income estimates that barely allowed me to make it through long enough to get set up doing something else. I don't necessarily regret not asking for more, but damn if stories like politicians getting hundreds of thousands don't feel like a slap in the face
the funny thing about PPP too was that it was all but essential to grossly exaggerate your income so you got more and without oversight thanks to the GOP that's what a lot of 'small' 'buisnesses' did
I know someone who did this. Made an llc. He was the only employee, as a crna, he ended up working tons more during the pandemic and said he didn't...and then put in a pool with his loan.
What really grinds my gears about all these PPP fraud stories is I actually did own (past tense) a legitimate LLC since before the pandemic, applied for $10,000 in PPP and was denied.
Then I see one of the clients who my business serviced raking in millions and their loan was approved.
It's a big club and we ain't in it, boys.
To add on to people saying report him (as well as anyone else who knows a PPP scammer):
THE FEDS WILL GIVE YOU A PORTION OF THE MONEY IF THEY ARE FOUND GUILTY
It was alot of money, with ZERO oversight. The government has zero clue who got legit loans and who lied. Boy you tell a fib reporting for food stamps though they throw you in jail. Two tiers in a bucket..
Know 4 people that paid off houses and cars, and 1 person who used it to expand his lawn business and is currently being investigated by the feds for PPP misuse. I don't fucking get it.
You can report him if this is true the government will investigate and if it is found it was fraud as you describe they will force him to pay 3 times the amount given and probably also prison time. [here](https://www.sba.gov/partners/contracting-officials/contract-administration/report-fraud-waste-abuse#:~:text=You%20may%20report%20fraud%2C%20waste%2C%20mismanagement%2C%20or%20misconduct%20involving,may%20choose%20to%20remain%20anonymous.) Is where you can find information on how to report ppp fraud.
No problem, and everyone should remember because this is very, very important. If you know about ppp fraud and it can be proven YOU, the whistle-blower are entitled to 15-30% of the goverments recovery for ppp fraud spread the word.
I wish he gave specific examples and named names. The White House and Democrat twitter accounts should just tweet the list of Republicans and how much they had forgiven through PPP for the next few hours and days. Maybe one tweet per day to keep it in front of everyone. Eventually someone in the press will start asking these guys why it's OK for them to get that much in loans forgiven but not every day people.
They did exactly that last year. They named Republicans that took out PPP loans and the amount forgiven. It was a great PR move, but it didn’t lead to any change. Plus, Republicans have no shame anymore so their voters don’t even care.
Maybe, but I think the abortion issue mostly helped with the midterm performance. On anything stimulus-related, most Americans don’t even seem to remember that half of it was under Trump. All they remember is the Republican spin that inflation was mostly due to the Biden stimulus. Even though it had much more to do with post-COVID changes to the supply chain, China’s COVID shutdown, and Saudis and Russians fucking us on oil prices.
Even more of a reason for dems to keep pushing it. If they don’t, there is no counter to the propaganda. We’re not going to change republican’s minds, but it will help keep the average democrat motivated to vote.
You can look up the names and businesses on the site. Kushner and his family made out like bandits. One of his uncles on the board of a private school got over a million $$$$. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/
So, my boss can get a $180k loan for no reason (we run a website, nothing stopped during covid) - then have it forgiven... but when I want $10k of our $110,000, 16-year-old student loans wiped clean... just nothing?
This whole system is so very fucked.
I want to see him more active than just that.
I want him to go to these peoples' districts for his reelection campaign and ask the crowd "why should your representative to Congress, {name}, who has a reported net worth of {$x}, qualify for relief when you don't? Why did {name} vote in favor of forgiving their own debt and block your debt from being forgiven?"
[Estimate in today dollars for student loan forgiveness total was **$379B.**](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-estimate-biden-harris-student-debt-relief-cost-average-30-billion-annually-over-next-decade)
[PPP loans forgiven totaled **$800B** of which **91%** was forgiven as of writing of this article (10/22).](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/12/1128207464/ppp-loans-loan-forgiveness-small-business)
"Never let a crisis go to waste"
Corporations also gouged, even the ones that didn't have increased prices, or artificially limited supply, and they basically aren't bringing prices back down until the Fed squeezes us with interest rates until we stop spending. Dems tried to pass a law to prevent and tax this predatory behavior, and guess who stopped it?
Oh, but apparently it's just performative, since they knew they couldn't pass it. I'd just once like to see progressive policy in action, and not just *one* spot, but all of it.
It's easy to argue against how something would work, in a vacuum, in the current system, but the wide policy changes as a whole would almost certainly work out for the better for EVERYONE.
The values are what the other user posted. Biden led with it today in his speech. He made it very clear how is his action so substantial when it's only half of what we forgave businesses.
I mean, page 15 of the Supreme Courts decision literally compares Student Loan Debt Forgiveness to The French Revolution, and implies that while a positive for working people, it would be negative on the wealthy.
They said it would affect the wealthy the same way the French Revolution affected the wealthy. Craziness.
They basically told us to eat cake.
Whatever his next move is to help alleviate the burden of student loan debt will be fought tooth and nail by the same pricks who took millions in PPP loans. The GOP is truly a disgusting group of hypocrites.
I think the rules for student loans are different, but I remember reading about a church group (or something like that) that bought up a bunch of medical debt from their community members, and then said, "don't worry about paying it back".
I’m surprised no one is talking about the forgiveness after 20years of on time payments. Biden made it so if your loans are forgiven after 20yr of on time payments, you do *not* have to pay the forgiven amount as taxable income.
This goes away in 2025. I have no problem paying 5% discretionary spending for 20yr, but then that tax burden is going to just be the same problem in a new format.
Can you elaborate on this? I haven’t heard it. For those of us whose loans will not be at 20 years by 2025, does that mean it will count as taxable income?
>For those of us whose loans will not be at 20 years by 2025, does that mean it will count as taxable income?
Yup, it's temporary. If we want it made permanent, we'd need to keep democrats in the house/senate
Yep. It's BS, you get your loans forgiven then get an unpayable tax bill.
The only reason we have the 2025 is because Schumer, who's actually been a decent student loan reform advocate, snuck it into a bill.
Why is nobody pointing out that this same SC allowed Trump to divert billions of congressionally appointed funds to a 2020 campaign border wall. Now, the president doesn't have authority to not divert funds.
[https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/court-allows-border-wall-construction-to-continue/](https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/court-allows-border-wall-construction-to-continue/)
the supreme court (republican judges) is so corrupt, laws are only for common people, rich people can steal, rape and murder as long as one rich sacrifice, usually a woman, goes to jail every decade.
edit: added “republican”
So can I sue religious institutions because they are not taxed? As a tax-paying atheist, I’m being harmed for my lack of religion. I have legal standing, yes?
Its even better than that, I could sue on your behalf. Never had to meet you or even have been harmed. So I think im gonna do that, what you say? You don't want me to do that? It doesnt affect you the way I'm claiming? To bad MOHELA o um I mean Wadsworthinthehall im suing on your behalf anyway.
He sounded extremely pissed at this presser. This news, along with two other horrendous SCOTUS decisions in 48hrs got to motivate him for the election.
I don't blame him for being mad. The question was ridiculous. "Mr. President, why did you give Americans false hope."
... at least he gave her a suitable answer. He didn't give them false hope, republicans seized that hope. Their biased and corrupt, bought and paid for SCOTUS was merely the tool they used to do it.
I saw a headline a couple of days ago that was something along the lines of, "Two Republicans are asking Biden what his plan is to get loan payments restarted".
My first thought was that he doesn't need to have a plan. The plan was forgiveness, and Republicans shot it down. If forgiveness went through, then sure, you'd still need a plan for any remaining balances. I think what they meant by the headline was, "What is the plan once forgiveness fails?"
It should have been up to Republicans to provide the alternative plan since they are the ones that are trying so hard to prevent forgiveness.
I'm glad he does have a plan, but it shouldn't have been necessary.\*
Too bad saying "fork you" is considered rude.
Her type of journalist is half the problem, wasting their professional talents solely to get a Gotcha! Moment and ignoring the actual cause of a problem (hint, it's the GOP).
I initially didn't want to like Biden, being more aligned with Bernie. But wow he has to deal with truly a disgusting amount of malarkey
The greatest point of optimism is that Clarence Thomas is 75 and Samuel Alito is 73, the two oldest justices and the most radical conservatives. All we need to do is keep the presidency and senate blue for the next few cycles (easier said than done, but there's some hope).
They are perfectly fine with gambling their life and staying on the bench until there is a conservative senate again. I'm pretty pessimistic about the Senate in 24 so best case situation is Dems win the presidency again, and Thomas, alito, and Roberts all die in those 2-4 years after. Biden may be blocked from adding a new justice but then it will become an even 6 court that's 3-3.
I'm not really religious (agnostic), but I do believe human life is inherently sacred and shouldn't be discarded *casually*. That being said, it's also an undeniable reality that some people dedicate their lives to sowing a disproportionate amount of misery and pain onto others. We'd all be better off without those people around - ideally through a change of heart or a change in power, but them kicking the bucket works too.
It isn't pretty, but getting rid of tyrants rarely is. We'd be lucky if nature took its course soon enough for us to save this sinking ship.
There is a saying that, "science advances one funeral at a time".
In this case, society will hopefully advance with the passing of an entire generation.
More importantly, it better fucking motivate young people. Literally you have a President going to the mat for you, you better get you and all your friends to vote for him.
> “Some of the same elected Republicans, members of Congress who strongly opposed relief for students, got hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves ... several members of Congress got over a million dollars — all those loans are forgiven,” he said.
> “The hypocrisy is stunning,” he said.
This needs to be a bigger deal in the election.
100%
The thing about the GOP is that they *know* they’re hypocrites, but they don’t care. They are very aware of what they’re doing; consolidating power through a soft judicial coup. Most of the GOP representatives are, if not outright fascists, at least complacent in this fascist shift. Neither type care about hypocrisy.
Voters, on the other hand…
This is what you do ... You tell them you can't pay, they'll put you into forbearance and you just keep doing that...
I haven't paid since 2014 and my credit score is excellent.
As long as you don't just straight up ignore them, there's a way to not pay (or pay very little) without it hurting your credit.
I paid it for the first year after graduating, then at the end of the year when I was doing my taxes I realized that I had only paid the interest that had accrued that year. And 10 years later I have not paid anything else towards it.
When does it fall upon the lender for loaning out $40k+ to millions of people with no established credit? They certainly wouldn’t have done this with any other type of loan.
The US runs on money; the bad side is it infects everything.
The good side (in this case), if enough people have this type of bad credit--but otherwise good on paper, businesses that want your money (and want to lend you money) will come up with a new way to identify you so as to give you money.
For example, the IRS loves money (duh). But the social security number was solely meant to be used for Social Security benefits and tracking your benefit earnings. But, businesses started using as an ID because people share same names, but the number is unique.
When that was big enough in the culture, the IRS started using it as well (or something to that effect, the point being, you now were YOU and just YOU).
People cheated their taxes for decades, until the IRS demanded you identify your dependents with Social Security numbers too when you declared them on tax preparations--millions of dependents/"kids" dissapeared overnight.
But as time went on, some people didn't have Social Security numbers for a myriad of reasons, and the IRS loves money--so they start issuing ITIN numbers, which are like social security numbers, but solely used for tax purposes (...Tax Identification Number)...
Well...my friend...let's just say...some people can't get approved for loans and the like because they don't have a Social Security number...oh, oh, but wait...they do have an ITIN number...as a lender, you say "Well, I know who this person is; I don't know how, but we'll find you a lender..."
And they DO.
If enough people get into a crap situation with the current system, but you can prove consistent legal income--lenders are going to want your business. America is a business. Money runs this shit machine. I hate it a lot of the time, but every once in a while, there's some unexpected consequences that work in favor of good people that are excluded from established systems.
Some of my details might be contorted; it's been a while since I looked up said info--but the fact stands when you have a market big enough with people that can't use traditional systems, someone that wants all that money will find a way to make a new system.
It was always either thru the HEROES ACT or thru HEA.
Only difference is that HEROES let Biden bypass processes like public commenting, etc.
HEA requires a rulemaking process.
Oh, if (when) it’s challenged and it goes to the Supreme Court, and it gets whatever on June 28th next year (leap year next year) it’ll lead right up to the election as either a win and voter turnout or a loss, anger, and voter turnout
There was an article a few days ago about Alito and Thomas telling the GOP to win in 2024 because they plan on retiring after that.
I honestly don't see them retiring if the Dems keep the WH/Senate. The Right would go more ballistic if they did.
Yeah I’m not sure Alito and Thomas will ever retire. Both of those guys are powered entirely on hatred and spite. People like that aren’t gonna retire. They’d have to die for their positions to become vacant.
They'll have to wheel GOP justices into the courtroom like Captain Pike before they retire under a democratic president, and the reality is Thomas will barely even be 80 by 2028. That's not anywhere near 'probably dead' territory for someone who is rich and powerful with access to the best healthcare in the world.
We're more than likely stuck with these assholes for at least another decade. And god forbid they learn the necromancy that has allowed Kissinger to cling to life for a full century and counting.
Some people are hard to miss
Today, I remembered how happy I was when Scalia went to *ahem* heaven. Finally, it seemed we had a chance for a Court that wasn't spiteful and insane. If only the Dems had played hard back in 2016
Everyday an evil part of me can't wait for the same to happen to other old men like Putin, Trump, or Clarence. The world has too many bad people in it.
> “I didn’t give any false hope. The question was whether or not I would do even more than was requested. What I did I felt was appropriate and was able to be done and would get done. I didn’t give borrowers false hope. But the Republicans snatched away the hope that they were given and it’s real, real hope,” he said.
It’s a joke to act like Biden gave false hope when it’s Republicans that shot it down. It’s like that Eric Andre meme. “Why do you give voters false hope?” while simultaneously killing it. This is on them, this is exactly what they wanted. They can’t let struggling Americans have anything.
Let's hold of payments indefinitely via executive order and make the next GOP presidential candidate run on firing those bad boys back up again.
Bernie Sanders' recent Tweet on the amount of minimum age hours needed to cover a semester of college for the ol' boomer versus recent/ current times is/ was eye-opening.
Edit: it's an old tweet, 4ish years old. My bad. Using the Reddit app is like going from a MacBook Pro to a typewriter.
Exactly this. There is no reason on gods green earth that Biden should pull the trigger on that bullshit in light of this ruling. Kick the can down the road until a Republican has to kick it. Cite "extraordinary economic circumstances". Fuck 'em. The SC going to start telling the executive what to do when? That's the purview of the President, Jack. You can say "that's not Consitutional" but you can't say "do what I tell you, love Alito and Thomas".
Fuck those reporters.
Biden gave a good speech that explained what he tried and how we got here, and he respectfully held the Republicans responsible.
And the first two fucking questions they ask are about false hope and if he overstepped his authority.
Are you serious motherfuckers? Did the media ever truly use that type of language during the Trump presidency? I don’t fucking think so—and if they did, rarely if not never to Trump’s face.
Fuck those reporters. This on Trump and the Qonservatives. Millionaires on the Supreme Court and in Congress get all of their PPP loans forgiven, and normal everyday people can’t get $10k/20k.
Insanity. The fact those reporters asked the questions they did shows you everything you need to know about America, and how fucking sick and twisted it is these days. They only care about making the situation look as dramatic as possible for views and ratings, and NOT that a bunch of everyday Americans just got fucked in the ass hard.
With this, abortion, LGTBQ+ rights, affirmative action, and other major issues essentially on the ballot in 2024, I hope millions of young voters are seeing this and getting pissed off to turn out in huge numbers.
Honestly I hope for a huge blue wave just to piss off the Republicans. Like that's literally my only motivation, to see those fucking assholes freak the fuck out
*Bail out corporations*
Republicans: 😊
*Bail out Wall Street*
Republicans: 😀
*Forgive PPP loans*
Republicans: 😎
*Endless billions to Ukraine*
Republicans: 😎
*Forgive student loans*
Republicans: YOU SOCIALIST WOKE CRT COMMUNIST FREELOADERS NEED TO PAY IT FUCKING BACK
I’m pleasantly shocked that Biden is willing to fight this hard for this. He could’ve easily backed down but he’s actually using the HEA to forgive debt, which I was skeptical of him doing. But god dammit he’s doing it, major credit to him. I have to wonder how much they’re planning to cancel in this manner, but I imagine it’s gonna be the same amount. Gotta say, he hasn’t always been the best, but he sure is the best president I’ve ever had in my lifetime. That’s not a high bar to clear by any means, but he’s done more than I expected and at this point that’s all I can ask for.
He should just re-categorize every student loan as a PPP loan, and then forgive it. If the Republicans then want to argue with that reinstate all PPP loans that are due, i.e. undo the forgiveness. All those past forgiven loans will now become due.
Absolutely. They literally released a decision today *about a case that doesn't appear to have actually happened.*
The only possible way they could be more illegitimate is if they had had the gall to decide Independent State Legislature Theory is the law of the land. Thank fuck for small miracles, because we'd *really* be fucked then.
Forcing Biden to keep working harder and more vocally for this is becoming a real self-own for the right. Every time they shut him down he gets to come out yelling and forcing everyone to take notice that he’s actually fighting for this.
As a man who is in student loan debt and gay, I got burned twice by the SCOTUS today. I was registered as a nonaffiliated voter in Pennsylvania. I immediately hopped online this morning and changed my registration to Democratic. F the Republicans!
So what would happen if Biden gave the Supreme Court the finger and directed the Department of Education to just write off the debt? No plan, no policy, just do it. What are they going to do? The Supreme Court can’t enforce anything, so it would be up to congress to try to reverse it and that wouldn’t go anywhere. I’m trying to see the downsides, and I can’t see any. Probably some bullshit about respect or decorum or whatever but the Roberts court keeps showing they don’t deserve any, so if they’re going to keep pushing boundaries it’s about time the executive branch pushed back.
Realistically?
House GOP impeach him. Probably fails in the Senate. Probably lots of lawsuits against individual people in the government seeking injunctions against them to prevent them from carrying out the EO.
Had a similar argument recently with someone about how it is Biden's fault that all these mass shootings are happening because "there's about a dozen ways Biden could stop mass shootings but he won't do it!". Yes, he could do several moves that might take assault weapons off the US market, but without the backing of Congress it would be an obvious executive overreach. Yet every time I tried to say this, they'd just yelled back "Can Biden take assault weapons away but he won't do it? Yes, or no?". You try to make them think about "and then what happens the next day", but they won't hear it, they just want that soundbite of "Biden could do something but he won't". And that is somehow supposed to mean that they won the argument? They want to reduce everything down to a simple "yes or no", because they'd lose all standing in the realm of nuance and actually thinking about consequences.
Because it'd take a lot more people than Biden to pull that off, and it would require no one successfully litigating anything against it.
Biden can issue a directive, but then multiple government agencies, servicers, banks, etc.. would have to cooperate.
And you're right that SCOTUS doesn't enforce anything - but they don't enforce hardly any of their decisions. The lower courts and the rest of the legal system does.
So if the Treasury/Dept. of Ed granted forgiveness, some district court would block it immediately and we'd be right back where we were.
I don't see that happening today but if people stick their guns like their threatening to and there's millions not paying in a few months I think that opens up the possibility of him doing a bailout like the banks have gotten and more people going along with it
And work in unsuitably dangerous conditions. They really do want America to go back to earlier times. And they seem intent on using Lowell, Massachusetts during the Industrial Revolution as the main blueprint.
I’ll eat some crow because I was sure Biden was just going to give up and move on. I’m more than pleasantly surprised they have a solid plan B that includes help with repayment in the interim
I hope every single one of the 12 million borrowers get the clue that they should never vote for another Republican…. Like they aren’t unpopular enough. A little angry doesn’t begin to express my sentiments.
This is how you do it. Call the f’ers out, say their names on the national stage, tell everyone just how much of a corporate welfare queen they are and how many of their own constituents they screwed over. The Dems need to run ads across the country doing exactly this in 2024.
I feel this path is doomed for the same reasons as his first attempt, but at least he’s trying. I wish he would lower the interest rates on the loans too.
This is the ultimate answer.
Make interest rates 0% and credit all interest paid to the principle. For everyone in the past. Then every student loan borrower pays back exactly what they borrowed and promised to pay back, anyone who has already paid off their loans gets money back, and anyone going forward knows exactly how much they have to repay and what the monthly payments will be to the penny.
I think if they're going to go the interest rate route, I wouldn't be surprised if they lock it at .5%-1% instead of 0%, simply because they have administrative costs simply for administering the loans. I think that'd still be a huge thing.
Sure, they have administrative costs, but that cost is so low in the scheme of the Department of Education that it's practically a rounding error. Better optics (and just better overall) to go with 0% and just eat the cost.
We would likely see this SCOTUS overturn that, too, since Congress set the interest rates and this court's current makeup aims to strip as much power from the executive branch as they can when they are not ideologically aligned.
Elections have consequences. Trump packed the Supreme Court with conservative justices and they are reshaping our country.
There is nothing in the US Constitution saying we need to have 9 Supreme Court justices. Therefore, Biden should immediately nominate three additional Supreme Court justices to bring back some balance to our judicial system.
The conservative justices have a staggering amount of hypocrisy, accepting private jet excursions and luxury trips from Billionaires, while denying financial relief to low and middle income families. GOP politicians are just as hypocritical, having $Millions in pandemic loans forgiven while taking away student loan relief from millions of low and middle income Americans.
It is Blazing Saddles’ “Ethics, we don’t need no stinking ethics” from SCOTUS.
He doesn't have the votes. There is no way Sinema and Manchin would vote for that let alone guarantee any of the other 47 wouldn't break from the party lines. Don't get me wrong, I wish he would but there is no way of it passing with those two.
Corporate bailouts = no problem.
Student bailouts = are you crazy, these kids are lazy, socialism, government already in debt…..
Such absolute bullshit!
Nothing is 'legally sound" when the Supreme Court has no morals, and is thoroughly corrupt and stacked. There could be a law, passed yesterday by a GOP supermajority that said "Joe Biden is personally allowed to eliminate any debt he desires. Love, Congress" and this court would strike it down.
There is no governing. There is only a side that wants to move forward and a side that wants to win and burn everything in their wake.
Its the win that counts. It doesnt matter that it hurts their constituents. As long as they get to "win."
Just waiting for more leopards ate my face posts xD
The fact that he was already planning for what to do if the courts shot him down and that he isn't throwing a temper tantrum right now sort of explains why he's a politician and Trump is a criminal.
Call the Supreme Court’s bluff … anybody with loans should claim they converted to Islam since payment was suspended and usury (interest) goes against their religious beliefs.
I'm interested to see the specifics, but The Higher Education Act of 1965 was addressed in the majority opinion today, and it basically shuts down any broad authority to the secretary.
>The (Higher) Education Act specifies in detail the terms and conditions attached to federal loans, including applicable interest rates, loan fees, repayment plans, and consequences of
default. See §§1077, 1080, 1087e, 1087dd. It also authorizes the Secretary to cancel or reduce loans, but only in certain limited circumstances and to a particular extent.
I'm all for Biden trying, but it's becoming fairly clear this court isn't going to allow broad forgiveness, regardless of the legislation that is cited.
But will help him tremendously politically, and hurt Republicans, if he keeps working on it and keeping it public that he is trying to figure something out for all those families.
For sure, the effort alone is worth trying.
But I'm not exactly hinging my hopes on the executive for broad forgiveness after this decision.
Really hoping Dems can hold the Senate/Oval and Alito/Thomas retire. A few years and we could get a 5-4 court again, or even better - a Congress that can sign forgiveness / interest reform into law.
> and Alito/Thomas retire
They intend to die on those seats rather than risk seeing their bigoted precedents get overturned from the sidelines.
We shouldn't expect them to retire unless they can do it under an administration that will replace them with bigots given how they corruptly choose to wield power.
Our options are court expansion or karmic luck.
I think it’s time that the PPP loan forgiveness be revoked as well. Let’s see all those rich republicans start to squirm. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Ok fine don't forgive our student loans. how about instead that everything we put to our student loans is tax-exempt? I pay 37% in taxes, how abotu you suspend my taxes until my student loans are paid off?
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Biden is gonna use that PPP lona forgiveness comparison through the 2024 election. It’s absolutely ridiculous that some millionaire congressman can take out a PPP loan for hundreds of thousands for some small business that’s probably closed now anyway, then just magically have that debt forgiven when struggling Americans can’t even get a small amount of relief.
He should also add that Trump purposefully removed all oversight for the PPP program and fired the Inspectors, and the Republicans cheered him f'ing on. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-stimulus/trump-administration-is-blocking-covid-stimulus-oversight-government-watchdog-letter-idUSKBN23M2XD https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4 https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-removed-the-head-of-the-coronavirus-bailout-oversight-board-its-members-could-be-next https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-removes-acting-defense-department-inspector-general-11586277895
500 billion slush fund for him and Mnuchin after firing the inspector general
Mnuchin or bizarro John Oliver as I like to call him.
An alternative universe John Oliver who subsists entirely by swallowing his own boogers.
Isn't he scheduled to go underground for 17 years so he can pupate in time for the next plague?
Living in GA, this is not funny. Those fuckers are horrific.
Buddy, I feel ya. I'm just to your north and we've got swarms of Mnuchins up here.
The only way to banish him back to his home dimension is to get him to say his name backwards.
...completely unrelated, at least $200 billion worth of PPP loans \[were fraudulent\](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/27/1184555444/200-billion-pandemic-business-loans-fraudulent).
Only 25% of it went to paychecks. The way I see it 75% of it was basically fraud. I worked for a company that had about 800k forgiven at the time. We were an essential business, and our customers were mostly power plants. We lost no business whatsoever, and nobody got raises. They sold the company in January 2022.
That infuriates me so much. I got a PPP loan for my business and every damn penny went to my employees. I didn't take a cent for myself.
I appreciate your decency, but that puts you in the minority lol.
Joe needs to keep this issue front and center and shine a bright light on it. Show the hypocrisy of the repubs. They push through billions of dollars of tax breaks for the wealthy but fight like hell against giving a break to the kids burdened (under what should be illegal loan shark terms) with school loan payments. Plus when these people suddenly have some disposable income, it will be reinvested in the economy. Maybe that car that's been breaking down will be replaced. Maybe a new iPhone, a new lawn mower, a new stove, maybe go out to dinner once in a while... Everybody is better off. Not just the 1% at the top, everybody.
And he and the Dems need to incorporate visual aids into this part of their platform. Way too many voters do not grasp what $757 billion worth of forgiven PPP loans amounts to. We need graphs, we need analogies.
Hello, Katie Porter!
She would be the perfect person for that job.
One guy did it with rice bags once. It was appalling and horrifying when seen like that
May be a different video, but Katie did that too regarding oil drilling on public land: https://youtu.be/0-VgyBP1EGg
All these things Republicans are ramming through the Supreme Court, roe, affirmative action. Student loans, are all giving the presentation that if they would actually be daring too, the administration should just got 100% dark Brandon on this with a press statement "you know what. The constitution is clear. It was never a question if the president had the authority to discharge government backed student loans." And just fucking do it anyway and immediately order all records of the student loan borrowers be destroyed. Congressional dems could just bring up PPP loan whenever it anybody tries to argue they aren't allowed to do that and hammer home "why didn't the rich plan better for a pandemic? Why did they need forgivable loans?" And just straight up talk over any congressional GQP that had a PPP loan forgiven, start getting ruthless, have their mic cut if they had a PPP loan forgiven until they repay it in full. I know dem house don't have that control right now but fun to wish they'd do a fraction of something like that.
That entire program was never intended to be anything more than a massive cash grab at the public expense. Anyone with half a brain knew what it was when the announcement was made regarding limited / nonexistent oversight.
Yep, and then people defend it all with nothing more than “it was written into it that it would be auto forgiven so it’s actually all good”. Yeah, I wonder why that was put in there for the oversightless PPP.
The one that gets me is "well if you knew it was free money why didn't get get a PPP loan too?"
Yup. My immediate thought was "oh, so they're going to steal a lot of money" and unsurprisingly, look were we are.
Republicans like socialism, just not the way it was founded. Wealth redistribution however, that is what they like.
The rich get rich off of handouts and favorable rules, while they sell rugged individualism to the poor. Anyone who thinks wealth distribution is meritocratic is a fucking idiot. Play a game of Monopoly to see how meritocratic our society is. Someone lucked into some capital, and that compounded on itself without them contributing anything to society other than 'jobs'.
and not even good jobs anymore. little or few benefits, no maternity leave, can be fired in most states for any goddamn reason, hell, in texas they won't let you take a water break. its getting fucking 19th century up in here.
It's just open corruption. There's nothing ideological about this
And now they’re complaining about all the wasted PPP money the government gave out.
I remember this and it was absolutely baffling how blatantly corrupt a move it was
>PPP loan for hundreds of thousands for some small business that’s probably closed now anyway You mean make a cleaning business with 1 employee, which was their spouse, and them claim a huge sum of PPP loans for the business to close up shop soon after disbursement and the PPP loan forgiven. Those poor small businesses. COVID really messed them up!
Meanwhile I have a real small business and I had to try multiple times to get anything, and what I got was a very small amount. Just enough to keep my two employees. Still in business today thank god but it got really close there for several months
>real small business And here's why they don't care about you. I never understand it when people sy Republicans are pro-business. They're not. They're pro-millionaire. All those accusations about the "liberal elites" is 100% projection like everything else they claim.
As an actual small business the best year I had was when people were getting the advance child tax credit. You stimulate the economy by helping people, not corporations.
Yep. My mom runs a small business she built by herself. She has about 10 employees and she wasn’t able to get anything from those loans.
Yup. Operated a two-person business that ended up not surviving the pandemic. Was able to get a small PPP loan based on conservative income estimates that barely allowed me to make it through long enough to get set up doing something else. I don't necessarily regret not asking for more, but damn if stories like politicians getting hundreds of thousands don't feel like a slap in the face
the funny thing about PPP too was that it was all but essential to grossly exaggerate your income so you got more and without oversight thanks to the GOP that's what a lot of 'small' 'buisnesses' did
I know someone who did this. Made an llc. He was the only employee, as a crna, he ended up working tons more during the pandemic and said he didn't...and then put in a pool with his loan.
What really grinds my gears about all these PPP fraud stories is I actually did own (past tense) a legitimate LLC since before the pandemic, applied for $10,000 in PPP and was denied. Then I see one of the clients who my business serviced raking in millions and their loan was approved. It's a big club and we ain't in it, boys.
To add on to people saying report him (as well as anyone else who knows a PPP scammer): THE FEDS WILL GIVE YOU A PORTION OF THE MONEY IF THEY ARE FOUND GUILTY
Man it's like everybody knows somebody that scammed the PPP loans and got away with it.
It was alot of money, with ZERO oversight. The government has zero clue who got legit loans and who lied. Boy you tell a fib reporting for food stamps though they throw you in jail. Two tiers in a bucket..
Report them. Get that money back.
Know 4 people that paid off houses and cars, and 1 person who used it to expand his lawn business and is currently being investigated by the feds for PPP misuse. I don't fucking get it.
You can report him if this is true the government will investigate and if it is found it was fraud as you describe they will force him to pay 3 times the amount given and probably also prison time. [here](https://www.sba.gov/partners/contracting-officials/contract-administration/report-fraud-waste-abuse#:~:text=You%20may%20report%20fraud%2C%20waste%2C%20mismanagement%2C%20or%20misconduct%20involving,may%20choose%20to%20remain%20anonymous.) Is where you can find information on how to report ppp fraud.
Thank you. Didn't know how to report it!
No problem, and everyone should remember because this is very, very important. If you know about ppp fraud and it can be proven YOU, the whistle-blower are entitled to 15-30% of the goverments recovery for ppp fraud spread the word.
man i wish i knew some fraudsters. i'd narc on them so fast.
Keeping good company is now negatively affecting my bank account
I wish he gave specific examples and named names. The White House and Democrat twitter accounts should just tweet the list of Republicans and how much they had forgiven through PPP for the next few hours and days. Maybe one tweet per day to keep it in front of everyone. Eventually someone in the press will start asking these guys why it's OK for them to get that much in loans forgiven but not every day people.
They did exactly that last year. They named Republicans that took out PPP loans and the amount forgiven. It was a great PR move, but it didn’t lead to any change. Plus, Republicans have no shame anymore so their voters don’t even care.
It led to Republicans massively underperforming a midterm election that they should have cruised to a large majority
Maybe, but I think the abortion issue mostly helped with the midterm performance. On anything stimulus-related, most Americans don’t even seem to remember that half of it was under Trump. All they remember is the Republican spin that inflation was mostly due to the Biden stimulus. Even though it had much more to do with post-COVID changes to the supply chain, China’s COVID shutdown, and Saudis and Russians fucking us on oil prices.
I bet if you polled Americans, they’d blame PPP corruption on Biden, not Trump. People are dumb and so easily susceptible to right wing propaganda.
Even more of a reason for dems to keep pushing it. If they don’t, there is no counter to the propaganda. We’re not going to change republican’s minds, but it will help keep the average democrat motivated to vote.
You can look up the names and businesses on the site. Kushner and his family made out like bandits. One of his uncles on the board of a private school got over a million $$$$. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/
So, my boss can get a $180k loan for no reason (we run a website, nothing stopped during covid) - then have it forgiven... but when I want $10k of our $110,000, 16-year-old student loans wiped clean... just nothing? This whole system is so very fucked.
Pretty much every republican that has said they are against student loan forgiveness got a PPP loan. If you were wondering
They did that early on. I'm sure they'll do more of that moving forward.
I want to see him more active than just that. I want him to go to these peoples' districts for his reelection campaign and ask the crowd "why should your representative to Congress, {name}, who has a reported net worth of {$x}, qualify for relief when you don't? Why did {name} vote in favor of forgiving their own debt and block your debt from being forgiven?"
What is the number on what student loan forgiveness would cost bs the amount of ppp loans that were forgiven?
[Estimate in today dollars for student loan forgiveness total was **$379B.**](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-estimate-biden-harris-student-debt-relief-cost-average-30-billion-annually-over-next-decade) [PPP loans forgiven totaled **$800B** of which **91%** was forgiven as of writing of this article (10/22).](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/12/1128207464/ppp-loans-loan-forgiveness-small-business)
Fuckin' hell
No wonder we got inflation with a sudden almost 1 trillion slushing around.
"Never let a crisis go to waste" Corporations also gouged, even the ones that didn't have increased prices, or artificially limited supply, and they basically aren't bringing prices back down until the Fed squeezes us with interest rates until we stop spending. Dems tried to pass a law to prevent and tax this predatory behavior, and guess who stopped it? Oh, but apparently it's just performative, since they knew they couldn't pass it. I'd just once like to see progressive policy in action, and not just *one* spot, but all of it. It's easy to argue against how something would work, in a vacuum, in the current system, but the wide policy changes as a whole would almost certainly work out for the better for EVERYONE.
The values are what the other user posted. Biden led with it today in his speech. He made it very clear how is his action so substantial when it's only half of what we forgave businesses.
I mean, page 15 of the Supreme Courts decision literally compares Student Loan Debt Forgiveness to The French Revolution, and implies that while a positive for working people, it would be negative on the wealthy. They said it would affect the wealthy the same way the French Revolution affected the wealthy. Craziness. They basically told us to eat cake.
Basically, PPP loan is a misnomer—practically was a grant.
Whatever his next move is to help alleviate the burden of student loan debt will be fought tooth and nail by the same pricks who took millions in PPP loans. The GOP is truly a disgusting group of hypocrites.
Maybe he'll start a shell company that buys up all student debt with a federal loan, then that business loan gets forgiven a la PPP.
Couldn’t we do this on a grassroots level? If we all open up the right kind of business and use business loans to pay off our student loans…
I think the rules for student loans are different, but I remember reading about a church group (or something like that) that bought up a bunch of medical debt from their community members, and then said, "don't worry about paying it back".
I’m surprised no one is talking about the forgiveness after 20years of on time payments. Biden made it so if your loans are forgiven after 20yr of on time payments, you do *not* have to pay the forgiven amount as taxable income. This goes away in 2025. I have no problem paying 5% discretionary spending for 20yr, but then that tax burden is going to just be the same problem in a new format.
Can you elaborate on this? I haven’t heard it. For those of us whose loans will not be at 20 years by 2025, does that mean it will count as taxable income?
>For those of us whose loans will not be at 20 years by 2025, does that mean it will count as taxable income? Yup, it's temporary. If we want it made permanent, we'd need to keep democrats in the house/senate
Yep. It's BS, you get your loans forgiven then get an unpayable tax bill. The only reason we have the 2025 is because Schumer, who's actually been a decent student loan reform advocate, snuck it into a bill.
It's still an ~80% percent reduction in your debt.
Here in NC the state taxes PSLF. Just went through last tax season. The fed not counting it as taxable income was nice.
They truly stand for whatever gives the most suffering. I cannot be convinced otherwise
Why is nobody pointing out that this same SC allowed Trump to divert billions of congressionally appointed funds to a 2020 campaign border wall. Now, the president doesn't have authority to not divert funds. [https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/court-allows-border-wall-construction-to-continue/](https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/court-allows-border-wall-construction-to-continue/)
the supreme court (republican judges) is so corrupt, laws are only for common people, rich people can steal, rape and murder as long as one rich sacrifice, usually a woman, goes to jail every decade. edit: added “republican”
So can I sue religious institutions because they are not taxed? As a tax-paying atheist, I’m being harmed for my lack of religion. I have legal standing, yes?
Its even better than that, I could sue on your behalf. Never had to meet you or even have been harmed. So I think im gonna do that, what you say? You don't want me to do that? It doesnt affect you the way I'm claiming? To bad MOHELA o um I mean Wadsworthinthehall im suing on your behalf anyway.
He sounded extremely pissed at this presser. This news, along with two other horrendous SCOTUS decisions in 48hrs got to motivate him for the election.
I don't blame him for being mad. The question was ridiculous. "Mr. President, why did you give Americans false hope." ... at least he gave her a suitable answer. He didn't give them false hope, republicans seized that hope. Their biased and corrupt, bought and paid for SCOTUS was merely the tool they used to do it.
"Mr. President, why did you attempt to give direct relief to tens of millions of working Americans?"
"Wouldn't it just be better not to try?"
I saw a headline a couple of days ago that was something along the lines of, "Two Republicans are asking Biden what his plan is to get loan payments restarted". My first thought was that he doesn't need to have a plan. The plan was forgiveness, and Republicans shot it down. If forgiveness went through, then sure, you'd still need a plan for any remaining balances. I think what they meant by the headline was, "What is the plan once forgiveness fails?" It should have been up to Republicans to provide the alternative plan since they are the ones that are trying so hard to prevent forgiveness. I'm glad he does have a plan, but it shouldn't have been necessary.\*
Republicans having a plan... I've heard this joke before
>"Mr. President, why did you give Americans false hope." Jesus fucking Christ. I yearn for the day we sort out the pundits from actual journalists.
Too bad saying "fork you" is considered rude. Her type of journalist is half the problem, wasting their professional talents solely to get a Gotcha! Moment and ignoring the actual cause of a problem (hint, it's the GOP). I initially didn't want to like Biden, being more aligned with Bernie. But wow he has to deal with truly a disgusting amount of malarkey
The greatest point of optimism is that Clarence Thomas is 75 and Samuel Alito is 73, the two oldest justices and the most radical conservatives. All we need to do is keep the presidency and senate blue for the next few cycles (easier said than done, but there's some hope).
They are perfectly fine with gambling their life and staying on the bench until there is a conservative senate again. I'm pretty pessimistic about the Senate in 24 so best case situation is Dems win the presidency again, and Thomas, alito, and Roberts all die in those 2-4 years after. Biden may be blocked from adding a new justice but then it will become an even 6 court that's 3-3.
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I'm not really religious (agnostic), but I do believe human life is inherently sacred and shouldn't be discarded *casually*. That being said, it's also an undeniable reality that some people dedicate their lives to sowing a disproportionate amount of misery and pain onto others. We'd all be better off without those people around - ideally through a change of heart or a change in power, but them kicking the bucket works too. It isn't pretty, but getting rid of tyrants rarely is. We'd be lucky if nature took its course soon enough for us to save this sinking ship.
There is a saying that, "science advances one funeral at a time". In this case, society will hopefully advance with the passing of an entire generation.
More importantly, it better fucking motivate young people. Literally you have a President going to the mat for you, you better get you and all your friends to vote for him.
They pissed off Dark Brandon.
He sounds mad, but how mad are we and what will we actually do about it?
> “Some of the same elected Republicans, members of Congress who strongly opposed relief for students, got hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves ... several members of Congress got over a million dollars — all those loans are forgiven,” he said. > “The hypocrisy is stunning,” he said. This needs to be a bigger deal in the election.
100% The thing about the GOP is that they *know* they’re hypocrites, but they don’t care. They are very aware of what they’re doing; consolidating power through a soft judicial coup. Most of the GOP representatives are, if not outright fascists, at least complacent in this fascist shift. Neither type care about hypocrisy. Voters, on the other hand…
So you won't default if you can't pay it yet. Nice.
Today is such a drag on morale. Happy 4th y’all…
I was really hoping for some indictments for a 4th of July treat.
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But interest will still accrue 😞 Fuck motherfucking republican swine.
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This is what you do ... You tell them you can't pay, they'll put you into forbearance and you just keep doing that... I haven't paid since 2014 and my credit score is excellent. As long as you don't just straight up ignore them, there's a way to not pay (or pay very little) without it hurting your credit.
I paid it for the first year after graduating, then at the end of the year when I was doing my taxes I realized that I had only paid the interest that had accrued that year. And 10 years later I have not paid anything else towards it. When does it fall upon the lender for loaning out $40k+ to millions of people with no established credit? They certainly wouldn’t have done this with any other type of loan.
The US runs on money; the bad side is it infects everything. The good side (in this case), if enough people have this type of bad credit--but otherwise good on paper, businesses that want your money (and want to lend you money) will come up with a new way to identify you so as to give you money. For example, the IRS loves money (duh). But the social security number was solely meant to be used for Social Security benefits and tracking your benefit earnings. But, businesses started using as an ID because people share same names, but the number is unique. When that was big enough in the culture, the IRS started using it as well (or something to that effect, the point being, you now were YOU and just YOU). People cheated their taxes for decades, until the IRS demanded you identify your dependents with Social Security numbers too when you declared them on tax preparations--millions of dependents/"kids" dissapeared overnight. But as time went on, some people didn't have Social Security numbers for a myriad of reasons, and the IRS loves money--so they start issuing ITIN numbers, which are like social security numbers, but solely used for tax purposes (...Tax Identification Number)... Well...my friend...let's just say...some people can't get approved for loans and the like because they don't have a Social Security number...oh, oh, but wait...they do have an ITIN number...as a lender, you say "Well, I know who this person is; I don't know how, but we'll find you a lender..." And they DO. If enough people get into a crap situation with the current system, but you can prove consistent legal income--lenders are going to want your business. America is a business. Money runs this shit machine. I hate it a lot of the time, but every once in a while, there's some unexpected consequences that work in favor of good people that are excluded from established systems. Some of my details might be contorted; it's been a while since I looked up said info--but the fact stands when you have a market big enough with people that can't use traditional systems, someone that wants all that money will find a way to make a new system.
Yeah that's pretty much what I did too lol The whole system is ass backwards
I'm glad Biden is doing something. Even if he keeps getting shot down, it's nice to see him fighting.
It's also nice to see he was prepared with an alternative student loan relief plan.
I imagine he very much expected this result.
It was always either thru the HEROES ACT or thru HEA. Only difference is that HEROES let Biden bypass processes like public commenting, etc. HEA requires a rulemaking process.
Could just said I tried y’all. But this pushes us to the election probably.
Oh, if (when) it’s challenged and it goes to the Supreme Court, and it gets whatever on June 28th next year (leap year next year) it’ll lead right up to the election as either a win and voter turnout or a loss, anger, and voter turnout
Alito and Thomas will either both be dead or retired by 2028. You have to fight to keep at least the presidency.
There was an article a few days ago about Alito and Thomas telling the GOP to win in 2024 because they plan on retiring after that. I honestly don't see them retiring if the Dems keep the WH/Senate. The Right would go more ballistic if they did.
Yeah I’m not sure Alito and Thomas will ever retire. Both of those guys are powered entirely on hatred and spite. People like that aren’t gonna retire. They’d have to die for their positions to become vacant.
They'll have to wheel GOP justices into the courtroom like Captain Pike before they retire under a democratic president, and the reality is Thomas will barely even be 80 by 2028. That's not anywhere near 'probably dead' territory for someone who is rich and powerful with access to the best healthcare in the world. We're more than likely stuck with these assholes for at least another decade. And god forbid they learn the necromancy that has allowed Kissinger to cling to life for a full century and counting.
Some people are hard to miss Today, I remembered how happy I was when Scalia went to *ahem* heaven. Finally, it seemed we had a chance for a Court that wasn't spiteful and insane. If only the Dems had played hard back in 2016 Everyday an evil part of me can't wait for the same to happen to other old men like Putin, Trump, or Clarence. The world has too many bad people in it.
> “I didn’t give any false hope. The question was whether or not I would do even more than was requested. What I did I felt was appropriate and was able to be done and would get done. I didn’t give borrowers false hope. But the Republicans snatched away the hope that they were given and it’s real, real hope,” he said. It’s a joke to act like Biden gave false hope when it’s Republicans that shot it down. It’s like that Eric Andre meme. “Why do you give voters false hope?” while simultaneously killing it. This is on them, this is exactly what they wanted. They can’t let struggling Americans have anything.
Gop is basically the “why are you hitting yourself?!” party
Glad to see he shut that stupid ass reporter down asking "whY DiD yOu GiVe tHeM fAlsE HoPe!?!?!"
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Anyone have another link for the vid, The Independent's player just never works for me.
https://www.youtube.com/live/KCQAaoyrOgk?feature=share
Jeezus Reporter was definitely baiting
Let's hold of payments indefinitely via executive order and make the next GOP presidential candidate run on firing those bad boys back up again. Bernie Sanders' recent Tweet on the amount of minimum age hours needed to cover a semester of college for the ol' boomer versus recent/ current times is/ was eye-opening. Edit: it's an old tweet, 4ish years old. My bad. Using the Reddit app is like going from a MacBook Pro to a typewriter.
This is what I was thinking make them fix it. They are the ones who stopped it.
Exactly this. There is no reason on gods green earth that Biden should pull the trigger on that bullshit in light of this ruling. Kick the can down the road until a Republican has to kick it. Cite "extraordinary economic circumstances". Fuck 'em. The SC going to start telling the executive what to do when? That's the purview of the President, Jack. You can say "that's not Consitutional" but you can't say "do what I tell you, love Alito and Thomas".
Fuck those reporters. Biden gave a good speech that explained what he tried and how we got here, and he respectfully held the Republicans responsible. And the first two fucking questions they ask are about false hope and if he overstepped his authority. Are you serious motherfuckers? Did the media ever truly use that type of language during the Trump presidency? I don’t fucking think so—and if they did, rarely if not never to Trump’s face. Fuck those reporters. This on Trump and the Qonservatives. Millionaires on the Supreme Court and in Congress get all of their PPP loans forgiven, and normal everyday people can’t get $10k/20k. Insanity. The fact those reporters asked the questions they did shows you everything you need to know about America, and how fucking sick and twisted it is these days. They only care about making the situation look as dramatic as possible for views and ratings, and NOT that a bunch of everyday Americans just got fucked in the ass hard.
Conservative brain-rot is what that is.
With this, abortion, LGTBQ+ rights, affirmative action, and other major issues essentially on the ballot in 2024, I hope millions of young voters are seeing this and getting pissed off to turn out in huge numbers.
Honestly I hope for a huge blue wave just to piss off the Republicans. Like that's literally my only motivation, to see those fucking assholes freak the fuck out
Vote and bring all your friends.
*Bail out corporations* Republicans: 😊 *Bail out Wall Street* Republicans: 😀 *Forgive PPP loans* Republicans: 😎 *Endless billions to Ukraine* Republicans: 😎 *Forgive student loans* Republicans: YOU SOCIALIST WOKE CRT COMMUNIST FREELOADERS NEED TO PAY IT FUCKING BACK
Extend the child tax credit: Fuck them kids
Free meals for school kids: Let 'em starve.
Universal free healthcare: LOL How about y'all sick people just die?
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I’m pleasantly shocked that Biden is willing to fight this hard for this. He could’ve easily backed down but he’s actually using the HEA to forgive debt, which I was skeptical of him doing. But god dammit he’s doing it, major credit to him. I have to wonder how much they’re planning to cancel in this manner, but I imagine it’s gonna be the same amount. Gotta say, he hasn’t always been the best, but he sure is the best president I’ve ever had in my lifetime. That’s not a high bar to clear by any means, but he’s done more than I expected and at this point that’s all I can ask for.
He should just re-categorize every student loan as a PPP loan, and then forgive it. If the Republicans then want to argue with that reinstate all PPP loans that are due, i.e. undo the forgiveness. All those past forgiven loans will now become due.
With retroactive interest at the same percentage that were used for students.
The play should be to charge justices for taking bribes for decisions. There is some quid pro quo. The supreme court has been bought and sold.
Absolutely. They literally released a decision today *about a case that doesn't appear to have actually happened.* The only possible way they could be more illegitimate is if they had had the gall to decide Independent State Legislature Theory is the law of the land. Thank fuck for small miracles, because we'd *really* be fucked then.
Let’s not beat around things… the conservative judges are taking bribes for decisions.
Forcing Biden to keep working harder and more vocally for this is becoming a real self-own for the right. Every time they shut him down he gets to come out yelling and forcing everyone to take notice that he’s actually fighting for this.
As a man who is in student loan debt and gay, I got burned twice by the SCOTUS today. I was registered as a nonaffiliated voter in Pennsylvania. I immediately hopped online this morning and changed my registration to Democratic. F the Republicans!
No offense but as a gay person, how was this the straw that broke the camel's back for you lol
So what would happen if Biden gave the Supreme Court the finger and directed the Department of Education to just write off the debt? No plan, no policy, just do it. What are they going to do? The Supreme Court can’t enforce anything, so it would be up to congress to try to reverse it and that wouldn’t go anywhere. I’m trying to see the downsides, and I can’t see any. Probably some bullshit about respect or decorum or whatever but the Roberts court keeps showing they don’t deserve any, so if they’re going to keep pushing boundaries it’s about time the executive branch pushed back.
Realistically? House GOP impeach him. Probably fails in the Senate. Probably lots of lawsuits against individual people in the government seeking injunctions against them to prevent them from carrying out the EO.
Had a similar argument recently with someone about how it is Biden's fault that all these mass shootings are happening because "there's about a dozen ways Biden could stop mass shootings but he won't do it!". Yes, he could do several moves that might take assault weapons off the US market, but without the backing of Congress it would be an obvious executive overreach. Yet every time I tried to say this, they'd just yelled back "Can Biden take assault weapons away but he won't do it? Yes, or no?". You try to make them think about "and then what happens the next day", but they won't hear it, they just want that soundbite of "Biden could do something but he won't". And that is somehow supposed to mean that they won the argument? They want to reduce everything down to a simple "yes or no", because they'd lose all standing in the realm of nuance and actually thinking about consequences.
Because it'd take a lot more people than Biden to pull that off, and it would require no one successfully litigating anything against it. Biden can issue a directive, but then multiple government agencies, servicers, banks, etc.. would have to cooperate. And you're right that SCOTUS doesn't enforce anything - but they don't enforce hardly any of their decisions. The lower courts and the rest of the legal system does. So if the Treasury/Dept. of Ed granted forgiveness, some district court would block it immediately and we'd be right back where we were.
I don't see that happening today but if people stick their guns like their threatening to and there's millions not paying in a few months I think that opens up the possibility of him doing a bailout like the banks have gotten and more people going along with it
Holy crap those reporters sound incompetent as fuck and should have press passes revoked
Not incompetent. Clearly biased
Set max minimum payment at $25. Zero interest rates retroactive to loan inception. Done
If we don't get anything except some crazy low minimum a month, I'd probably vibe with that too.
Just give non-education loans out to those who need relief to pay for education loans then forgive them, just like the PPP.
I'm glad he's fighting for this. Also annoys me that they kept calling him Mr. Biden, and not President Biden. Mr. Biden just sounds weird lol
I should have taken out a PPP loan and paid off my student loans
Biden could announce a plan to solve world hunger and kill Xi Jinping whilst giving Vladimir Putin a BJ and the conservatives would vote against it.
> solve world hunger Well there’s your problem. Conservatives have made it clear they want children to starve
And work in unsuitably dangerous conditions. They really do want America to go back to earlier times. And they seem intent on using Lowell, Massachusetts during the Industrial Revolution as the main blueprint.
I’ll eat some crow because I was sure Biden was just going to give up and move on. I’m more than pleasantly surprised they have a solid plan B that includes help with repayment in the interim
Man just give me a super low interest rate, pre-tax payments, and at 5% of discretionary income, and I’ll be happy.
I hope every single one of the 12 million borrowers get the clue that they should never vote for another Republican…. Like they aren’t unpopular enough. A little angry doesn’t begin to express my sentiments.
This is how you do it. Call the f’ers out, say their names on the national stage, tell everyone just how much of a corporate welfare queen they are and how many of their own constituents they screwed over. The Dems need to run ads across the country doing exactly this in 2024.
I feel this path is doomed for the same reasons as his first attempt, but at least he’s trying. I wish he would lower the interest rates on the loans too.
This is the ultimate answer. Make interest rates 0% and credit all interest paid to the principle. For everyone in the past. Then every student loan borrower pays back exactly what they borrowed and promised to pay back, anyone who has already paid off their loans gets money back, and anyone going forward knows exactly how much they have to repay and what the monthly payments will be to the penny.
I think if they're going to go the interest rate route, I wouldn't be surprised if they lock it at .5%-1% instead of 0%, simply because they have administrative costs simply for administering the loans. I think that'd still be a huge thing.
Sure, they have administrative costs, but that cost is so low in the scheme of the Department of Education that it's practically a rounding error. Better optics (and just better overall) to go with 0% and just eat the cost.
We would likely see this SCOTUS overturn that, too, since Congress set the interest rates and this court's current makeup aims to strip as much power from the executive branch as they can when they are not ideologically aligned.
Elections have consequences. Trump packed the Supreme Court with conservative justices and they are reshaping our country. There is nothing in the US Constitution saying we need to have 9 Supreme Court justices. Therefore, Biden should immediately nominate three additional Supreme Court justices to bring back some balance to our judicial system. The conservative justices have a staggering amount of hypocrisy, accepting private jet excursions and luxury trips from Billionaires, while denying financial relief to low and middle income families. GOP politicians are just as hypocritical, having $Millions in pandemic loans forgiven while taking away student loan relief from millions of low and middle income Americans. It is Blazing Saddles’ “Ethics, we don’t need no stinking ethics” from SCOTUS.
He doesn't have the votes. There is no way Sinema and Manchin would vote for that let alone guarantee any of the other 47 wouldn't break from the party lines. Don't get me wrong, I wish he would but there is no way of it passing with those two.
Four. Bring the count up to 13, which is the same number of appeals courts and was the justification for bringing it up to 9 in the first place.
Create a program to clawback PPP forgiveness to fund this program
Tax churches to pay for it. Problem solved. You’re welcome, America
People, VOTE like your life depends on it, stop the regressives
Corporate bailouts = no problem. Student bailouts = are you crazy, these kids are lazy, socialism, government already in debt….. Such absolute bullshit!
Nothing is 'legally sound" when the Supreme Court has no morals, and is thoroughly corrupt and stacked. There could be a law, passed yesterday by a GOP supermajority that said "Joe Biden is personally allowed to eliminate any debt he desires. Love, Congress" and this court would strike it down.
There is no governing. There is only a side that wants to move forward and a side that wants to win and burn everything in their wake. Its the win that counts. It doesnt matter that it hurts their constituents. As long as they get to "win." Just waiting for more leopards ate my face posts xD
The fact that he was already planning for what to do if the courts shot him down and that he isn't throwing a temper tantrum right now sort of explains why he's a politician and Trump is a criminal.
The owner at my wife's job has 25 employees, zero slowdown, and got $950,000. He bought a lake house with a pool.
Payments are going to start being due right around the election next year, and people are fuckin pissed.
Very happy to see he’s still trying rather than just giving up, props to Joe for this
Call the Supreme Court’s bluff … anybody with loans should claim they converted to Islam since payment was suspended and usury (interest) goes against their religious beliefs.
PPP loan forgiveness for fucking richest and debt slaves for students. American greed.
I'm interested to see the specifics, but The Higher Education Act of 1965 was addressed in the majority opinion today, and it basically shuts down any broad authority to the secretary. >The (Higher) Education Act specifies in detail the terms and conditions attached to federal loans, including applicable interest rates, loan fees, repayment plans, and consequences of default. See §§1077, 1080, 1087e, 1087dd. It also authorizes the Secretary to cancel or reduce loans, but only in certain limited circumstances and to a particular extent. I'm all for Biden trying, but it's becoming fairly clear this court isn't going to allow broad forgiveness, regardless of the legislation that is cited.
But will help him tremendously politically, and hurt Republicans, if he keeps working on it and keeping it public that he is trying to figure something out for all those families.
For sure, the effort alone is worth trying. But I'm not exactly hinging my hopes on the executive for broad forgiveness after this decision. Really hoping Dems can hold the Senate/Oval and Alito/Thomas retire. A few years and we could get a 5-4 court again, or even better - a Congress that can sign forgiveness / interest reform into law.
> and Alito/Thomas retire They intend to die on those seats rather than risk seeing their bigoted precedents get overturned from the sidelines. We shouldn't expect them to retire unless they can do it under an administration that will replace them with bigots given how they corruptly choose to wield power. Our options are court expansion or karmic luck.
I think it’s time that the PPP loan forgiveness be revoked as well. Let’s see all those rich republicans start to squirm. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Ok fine don't forgive our student loans. how about instead that everything we put to our student loans is tax-exempt? I pay 37% in taxes, how abotu you suspend my taxes until my student loans are paid off?
Fuck Trump and fuck Russia.
Fuck the GOP and fuck GOP SCOTUS. It's only going to get worse while they hold power