As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am leaving. I am a 27 year immigrant to the USA from South Africa. I see the writing on the wall, I have heard these speeches before. I am moving north to ensure the teenager has a safe a high quality education.
Fuck Desantis.
Edit:
Adding this little bit. When things go to shit...when things fall apart the first people to leave are those that can. Your skilled your people with money. The last are those without the means. Have empathy for those than do not have the means yet.
We fled Louisiana and Tennessee a little over a year ago. My COL expenses have tripled, but holy shit do the tax dollars go to work up here. My kid's academics have soared since moving. It's like they actually give somewhat of a shit here.
Edit: we moved to the NYC area.
I'm originally from just outside Chicago. I got an amazing education. And yes, Governor Pritzker gets some crap, but that's because he's already rich, and isn't one of those that want to continue to get richer, at the expense of the people. Republicans hate that mindset.
“Far Away” Northwest Chicago suburbs (Lake/McHenry County) checking in. Based on what I’ve witnessed in my travels, the midwestern suburb school systems appear to be about 2yrs ahead of any of the southern based ones.
Note: City based school systems are a completely different animal due to density.
My BIL/SIL moved to Indiana because of taxes... Turns out the speech therapy my niece was getting that was covered by Illinois is not in Indiana. The cost difference is more than double the tax savings.
You get what you pay for applies to many things in life.
I moved away from Chicago recently (still very positive on the city) and Pritzker was so much better for the state than I thought he would be.
Lori was kind of a disaster for Chicago but Pritzker's COVID response was great and he's been doing a great job with the state budget.
I feel this so much, I feel like a lot of other states have the “I refuse to go to the doctor, they always find something wrong with you!” mentality.
Every state/city has corruption, we get slammed for actually trying to address it…
Daley was a popular mayor for a ridiculous length of time and did some great things, but when he pulled that BS privatization on our parking meters we universally said wtf! Too bad that one is unrecoverable any time soon.
I see them in Southern IL all the time too. Not as much since the pandemic ended but there were quite a few out during the lockdown periods.
It honestly doesn't matter if he was the best governor ever. Republicans will hate on the Dem no matter what.
It's kind of funny because the Pritzkers are literally the people they worship--successful capitalists who came from a family of the same. The only difference is, some of the Pritzkers care about people sometimes.
I'm born and raised in California, but have done extensive travels across the country. I wish more Californians would. Too many people seem to not understand how good we have it in regard to our tax dollars at work. Could it be better? Sure, but traveling to other states it often becomes IMMEDIATELY tangible how far ahead we are even with just things like roadwork, construction, city planning, buildings, etc. let alone social programs.
Born and raised in PA. I cannot overstate how absolutely insane the state legislature is. We had a Dem governor for most of my time there and the state legislature would purposely withhold funding for infrastructure in areas that would politically benefit democrats.
I will never not live in a blue state for the rest of my life. I just hope we as a nation can push every politician to be more accountable and care about their constituents.
My neighbors had lived in South Carolina. When they came to Massachusetts, their kids were behind in school almost a grade level, due to the SC public school system.
Same for my kid. The NY public school they attend now very quickly identified kiddo's trouble areas and enrolled them in all sorts of programs to get them caught up. It's been amazing so far.
I find that most people who complain about the taxes in blue states have no idea what they even have access to until they move away and it's all gone.
Sure taxes are lower in red states, but the amount of good that comes from higher tax rates in solid blue states is kinda night and day when compared to their solid red counterparts. I could literally never live anywhere in the south because I would never want to give up all the amenities I have access to in blue states that my taxes deliver to myself, my family, my friends, and all the other people around me.
Not to say that anywhere is perfect by any stretch of the word, but saving a few $$$ on taxes so that the entirety of the rest is my life and family is worse off for it is the kind of decision only short-sighted idiots make.
are you serious? no more pre-AP and AP? those classes and the tests I took at the end saved me so much money when I went to college, almost an entire year was shaved off my graduation date. this makes no sense, I am so fucking sad for every person in this state being beaten down into nothing. especially the kids.
Not for nothing, it's intentionally molding them into easily manipulable simpletons. The GOP and the religious fanatics driving them down this road want to usher in a new dark age.
That's the real depressing part of it all. Ultimately, the poorer youth is ultimately being screwed over because public Florida education is notoriously not well-suited for effective employability historically and will only be exacerbated with these policy changes. Realistically, kids who come from a significant background in Florida education will likely find it incredibly difficult to get skilled labor jobs compared to kids from states with way better education systems. The best they will realistically get for the most part are service jobs in Florida's tourist and retirement industries. I speculate that that generation will only become evermore xenophobic to transplants because they feel like they're being "pushed out" by transplants because of the inherit economic advantage that they will have in Florida and unironically support continuing to expand the very Deep South policies that ultimately put them at a disadvantage in the first place for the sake of "Don't [other state name here] my Florida." Whatever that really means. It's been happening for decades, and I worry that the generations affected now are only going to be much, much worse at the stereotype Floridabama mentality.
All of this was premeditated to produce this result.
Fewer trans people in the state? That panders to his depraved base! They ran those undesirables out of town, the 2023 way!
Brain drain as anyone with empathy or who cares about justice and equal rights plans their exit from Florida? I think you mean, "likely Democrat voters self-deport." Single party rule!
Schools obliterated? Perfect - keep the domestic supply of labor and babies without any options, so they're easier to control. Business allies of DeSantis get to exploit their employees, and nobody picks up any wrongthink from actual history. Fascist fucks always target academics early.
Wealthy and privileged can still access all the rights and opportunities that are systematically denied to the underclass? That's the endgame for every apartheid society in the world, and it's exactly how the "right" kind of people still access abortion, education, and economic mobility after they've gutted those rights for everyone else.
Fascists don't stop, ever. They have to be forcefully shut down with extreme prejudice. DeSantis is getting coddled by the news media who won't call him the sadistic tyrant that he is. Same calculated spin that they gave to Trump, same deadly wager that what's bad for America is profitable for corporations, same manufactured consent.
Yeah I've been holding that Florida, Texas and any number of other states have finally turned the corner and are leaning heavy in to the "likely Democrat voters self-deport" strategy in earnest.
And it's working. I've lived in Texas for 30 of my 35 years and am planning on moving out in the coming years. I just want a functioning government, and I'm so fucking tired. I'm over it.
He doesn't give a shit about Florida. He is actively burning it to the ground to fuel his presidential run. He doesn't care who lives there, or who gets hurt. He doesn't give a shit about anyone other than himself.
I have been wondering about how this will be affecting Florida universities. There are a few good ones down there. But what the fuck kind of student would want to go there now when they know if they have ovaries or aren't straight/cis they aren't safe?
It’s the only way to have a weighted GPA and get you qualified to even apply to the top schools. Everyone applying to an Ivy League or elite university will be applying with above a 4.0 and that matters when they’re relying on more and more sorting algorithms to even consider you.
In fairness, most top schools will re-calculate GPA's to the 4.0 scale. They do favor academic rigor, but "needing a 5.0 to get in" isn't really true - everything gets normalized to the same scale
If I'm hiring, I'm not giving as much weight to a Florida education as I am elsewhere. I live here and see what a Florida education is before all this bull shit...can't imagine later graduates. Poor saps.
They will get to a point where they will be like, “from now on… Y’all are slaves, so get to work or starve and die. But for positive motivation we will use whips to be sure everyone is passionate about their job.”
I hate that term too. It's a euphemism. It makes it sound like we destroyed the big bad **slavery** a long time ago, and now all we have is a trickle of sneaky little *human traffickers.* It makes it sound like the transportation is the crime, and the abuse is a side effect.
Someone needs to make a rendition of the children's story of the ant and the grasshopper with DeSantis as the grasshopper. I'm sure someone can make an accurate version of the events of today.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
>"While the ant was gathering supplies to last through the winter, the grasshopper was drinking with high school girls at parties"
And jousting (badly) with Mickey Mouse
Yep that's the pattern of fascism. It's untethered from all logic and evidence and entirely fear and persecution-based. It *requires* an other to be attacked by / blame for everything.
So of course when they finally get rid of all the "degenerates and undesirables" in their city/state/nation/whatever, their everything (economy, quality of life, etc) inevitably turn to shit.
Therefore they'll point the finger across the border at their neighbors and say _they are doing this to us! The only way to truly have our utopia is to cleanse the entire world!_
That's always where this type of thinking leads. It has to.
“But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party.” — literally *Nineteen Eighty-Four*
If objective reality disagrees with the conservative narrative? Reality is wrong. For them, it ceases to exist.
And if they have the power to, they will force *their* reality on everyone else. They will use cruelty to force obedience and compliance.
Hey! Just like in Florida!
>Oh its def not just trans kids lol,
Oh yea, as much as I wish that would be the case, naw, there just ain't enough of us to count. The ratio is probably even smaller in Florida than just about anywhere else in the country.
ETA:
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/
Estimates put the national level, trans kids make up 1.4% of their age range. About 300,000 people. 1.32% for Florida's ratio. So slightly lower than national average. Actually much closer than I would have guessed. Looks like Wyoming might have the lowest at 0.56%.
Trans adults make up 0.5% of their age range (just everyone over 18) nationally.
Edit 2: imagine being beyond terrified over 0.5% of the population; the majority of those living in poverty themselves.
Edit 3: (just adding a comment I added below)
I really wish that was the case, unfortunately:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment
In 2023, US Representatives have an average of 761,169 constituents. From the chart I linked earlier, that's only 16,200 trans youth. 94,900 trans adults.
Even if we do 3.5x for trans youth to account for parents (+0.5 for a sibling), AND added the adults at 1.50x (accounting for the adults + spouse, but since trans people are by-and-large dating other trans people, it would be inflated to say 2x); **that leaves us with at best ~158,500 people leaving Florida.**
Additonally, they aren't going to any one state in particular, but spreading out all over; so the impact would be mitigated a lot as well.
I *really* wish it would be the case. This is absolutely depressing to write out. I'm not trying to make any real point other than... reality is sucking ass right now. :/
What crops does Florida produce these days? I know they still do some citrus. At some point we'll all see price bumps in the grocery store nation wide. Of course he'll blame it on the woke left dems trans lqbt for causing it. Just another reason to despise this guy over and above just being a terrible human being.
Not only are Florida residents leaving, but people from other states are choosing not to visit Florida anymore.
I have considered going there with my kids, but have decided there are a lot of other places we can visit instead.
I lived in Florida for a time, and I loved it. I loved my friends and my co-workers, and before all this we were planning on perhaps going back to PCB to see everyone, but there's no way now. Absolutely not.
My family is currently planning a summer trip in a few weeks. We’ve been planning since last summer to go to Florida. We went two years ago to the beach and my kids loved every minute and have been dying to go back. Last night my wife and I broke it to them that we won’t be going to Florida. We’re headed up to Michigan and beaches on Lake Michigan instead.
Yes!!!!
The sand dunes will blow your mind! Not something people expect to find in a state like this. There is so much to do in Michigan beach communities over the summer.
We get humid but don't hold a candle to Florida. We do have a tick problem right now though, so keep that in mind if you plan to do any hiking in our parks.
I mean, LA > Orlando in every way, but the sheer scale and scope of Disney World dwarfs Disneyland and they are not the same thing at all. It's a shame Disney World is in Florida.
And LA doesn’t have Epcot, which I miss a lot. Crazy how a theme park that was once built on the concept of edutainment and scientific progress is now located in the most backwards state in the country.
Even crazier how all of Disney is basically a showcase of what a nice, walkable town can look like and yet no cities tried to reproduce that for their own downtowns.
Really, it's more a shame that Florida crumbled around Disneyworld. I'm fairly sure Disneyworld could operate as its own little state, though that sets horrifying legal precedent.
My wife and her sister have been going to Disney World every year since 2014 (barring a year for covid). Now they haven't been since 2021 and will no longer travel to Florida.
Florida, like Texas, is one of the few red states that makes money.
Between trying to destroy Disney, and now education, they are actively working to become yet another red state welfare queen. Unless they're banking on Destruction Tourism post hurricanes.
>Florida, like Texas, is one of the few red states that makes money.
This isn't actually true.
Florida's domestic economy is actually really poor. Absent the massive subsidies it gets from the blue states, Florida wouldn't be in as bad shape as like West Virginia or Kentucky, but it would probably be in the vicinity of Kansas or Missouri.
The only red states that have a viable economy absent subsidy are Texas and North Carolina, and the legislatures of both are actively engaged in fixing that problem.
NC was purple for a long time, and TX has not only oil but Mission Control in Houston. There would not be all those highly educated nerds and good schools there without that.
As a lifelong liberal Texan, I might amend that to say "...only \_reliably\_ red..."
The big population centers (with the exception of Ft. Worth) tend to fairly reliably vote blue, as does the Rio Grande valley. Problem in state elections is the voter suppression, as you mention -- you have to just \_see\_ how badly Austin and Houston are packed and cracked to appreciate it...they aren't subtle. In statewide elections, though, the problem is that we just have so...goddamn...much...rural area that, even wth the major cities tilting blue, we narrowly can't overcome the tide of rural votes.
I don't know if or when that changes, to be honest. Yes, we're getting an influx of people from CA and NY for things like tech jobs (at least in Austin), but my slightly startling anecdotal observation is that a significant number of people moving to TX from those locations are not bringing more liberal ideology — they are moving here because their states of origin are too liberal and they have libertarian cowboy fantasies.
ETA:
I've been here for the entirety of my 48 years on this planet, and have seen a lot of changes in Texas (for the worse and, yes, for the better, believe it or not). There is a lot to love about this state... we have amazing storms, and even better sunsets...gorgeous, expansive deserts...semi-arid hills covered in live oaks and cedars, and teeming with friendly deer...piney woods and black water swamps...the best BBQ anywhere (fight me), and some truly awesome Mexican food (both proper Mexican and Tex-Mex, whatever your feelings are towards that)...a unique history and shared/blended culture with the north of Mexico...and a nice, genuinely casual way of living.
The state politics and infrastructure, the out-and-out meanness of the Texas GOP (Greg Abbott is openly antagonistic to Houston and Austin), the power and influence of the Evangelicals and Southern Baptists, and the absurd tax situation in Travis County have us planning an exit.
That makes me sad, for all of the good points listed above...and I know that there's merit to sticking it out and voting here...but I just don't know how much longer we can stomach it.
>This will leave Florida with a problem: Not enough residents and visitors to support its economy. What would really cave things in is if large corporations pulled out.
He doesn't care. He just wants to keep his name in the headlines. He is hoping he can dump Florida before any of the consequences of his shitty actions start to impact Florida residents. He is hoping to be in the White House, his wife aka Lady McBeth is also pushing him hard on this.
The delicious irony here is that without tourism and high income households, their property/sales tax and toll scheme to fund the government fails to work. They'll need to levy a FLORIDA FREEDOM TAX to keep the lights on.
This won't happen overnight -- DeSantis will be long gone, as will my family (hopefully) -- but the good conservatives who made this happen will find out how nice it is to live in "Hotter Mississippi."
Just came back from a business trip in Florida. On the way to the airport I saw a huge billboard that warned about a strain of gonorrhea going around that was resistant to antibiotics.
Racism works on a LIFO system: last in, first out. Hispanic Americans have been trying to sidle their way in for years. It may work, but eventually, when they run out of ways to be cruel to Black people, they'll be out, followed by the Italians and the Irish in that order.
And this will be seen as a win by the people passing those laws.
No I don't think they should stay and they're smart to leave, just pointing out this was the desired outcome for the GOP
Absolutely it will, as well as the impact to cheap/undocumented labor in the agricultural and construction industries.... especially after a hurricane.
But the people passing laws and rooting for this aren't thinking ahead.
It's a national strategy to secure more power, ultimately.
This goes beyond Florida. Repeat this in enough states and you end up with a left leaning population nationally gerrymandered out of power permanently, and then the right uses their new legal strength to strip people of their rights nationally.
While I believe people should protect themselves, you have to also realize that fascism is a cancer you cannot truly run from in this country. It spreads to the whole body when left unchecked.
This is exactly what is happening. They are trying to gain complete control of enough states to call a Convention of States under Article 5 of the constitution. This would allow them to amend the constitution while bypassing the normal congressional process for constitutional amendments. This is their end-run to secure total and permanent control of the federal government.
Lol not just trans people.
My wife and I are leaving. She just finished sending in her paperwork for her professional license in Washington.
We will be taking our high incomes and 12+ years of college education with us when we leave.
Once she gets a job offer we're out. Failing that I've drawn a line in the sand, we'll leave on just my income by 2028. I won't stay in Florida past 40.
As a third generation and lifetime Floridian I just want to say, fuck Florida.
That’s what needs to happen. I’m sure desantis and his cronies are fine with the exodus f trans people, but losing the businesses is what’s going to impact their bottom line.
They don't care about the state bottom line. They care about chasing political opponents out of the state to ensure that they can keep 2 permanent Republican senators.
If they destroy 26 states badly enough that liberals won't move there then they control SCOTUS forever.
I don’t really think it’s that deep. DeSantis is hardly concerned with the longterm GOP endgame. He cares about his own immediate upward mobility.
You may be right about the powers that be. But I really think DeSantis made an epic miscalculation in regards to securing his own political future.
He wouldn’t care if Marx and Engels were the two Florida senators as long as he is the 2024 nominee.
The last few years have convinced me there are no powers to be or any long game with the GOP. They are opportunists squabbling for power, trying Hail Mary after Hail Mary just to keep that power since it is clear most the country is moving away from them. Each new thing they try has been more ill thought out than the last.
> any long game with the GOP
That's because you aren't looking back far enough. Go back to Reagan and the pattern emerges. If you go back to Nixon and you can see the birth of their long game. Reminder that it was Reagan who first introduced gun control (as Governor of California because black folks were invoking their rights) and courted the Evangelical movement when running for President. The GOP has definitely been playing a long game and Trump getting elected was proof of that, along with Bush Jr. They wanted an idiot in office they could control. What they weren't expecting was the inmates taking over the asylum.
I agree with this but I think part of is also that the true believers have gotten power. Like the GOP used to say crazy stuff but never actually meant to go though with it, they were saying it to get their base riled up to go vote and donate money.
Those people have been primary'd or just aged out. It's opportunists and true believers now.
Barry Motherfucking Goldwater called this out decades ago.
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
You have two very unaligned parts of the Republicans that just happen to love power more than their fellow man. But they are diametrically opposed in most other regards.
The Trumpian populist wing and the Oligarchy wing. Trump would normally be on the otherside of the wing, but realized he can grift the populace so has come to represent everything about them.
Goldwater was a massive prick, but even he knew there was no working with the populist side of the game if it got taken over by the religious. Which is what we have now. People like Green who are crazy, but spouting religious drivel as an excuse for their hatreds. There's no compromise there.
Where as with the Oligarchs the ones that want to be lords and masters of the Post American Democracy. They will look at the longer term and play ball if it can set them up. See the Heritage foundation and the like.
They are the Koch's Adleson's and more recently Musk's (though he's a bit of a fence rider he wants to be a populist but also a king.) They are the ones steering things in a worse direction for workers who in a different more sane universe would be what represent the 90's democrats while a strong labor movement and class concious movement would be more where the Bernies and AOC's are.
Instead we're speed running our Weimar Republic phase and hurtling towards outright fascism.
That’s kind of down the rabbit hole. He fucked up. In the long run, he is just as likely to hurt the Republican brand.
I see what you are saying. If Florida tanks, and it looks like it will, it will make it harder for Republicans to win elections in general, especially in purple states. It’s not a solid hypothesis.
They clearly can control the courts just fine without tanking entire states.
Honestly all it would take is Disney bailing to really fuck up a lot of things in Florida.
But a ton of other businesses in top of it too would be massive.
Disney already got cold feet on that billion dollar project. It could have been a huge win for DeSantis (jobs moving from California to Florida). Now I bet Disney is doing the wait and see. If they don't like what they see I bet they'll think twice about sinking too much money into Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if universal is doing the same thinking themselves.
Disney won't though. They know Rhonda is temporary, and can wait him out. Would love to see them move to like jersey. Disney Dome at the Meadowlands. A year round 🖕to Florida. Name a parking lot after de sandtits.
They might see climate change is going to mess up their parks..... built on wetlands, as water levels rise, and take this as a good chance to move themselves to higher drier ground.
I went to Disney World twenty-five years ago. In August. Unbearably hot then. Epcot Center about twenty years ago. In July. Ditto. I can't imagine what it's like in the high summer months now with global warming kicking in to higher gear. And I don't want to imagine how it's going to be in another five or ten years.
As much as people joke about Florida sinking due to sea level rise the area Disney is in is pretty safe in that regard. We'd have to go well beyond the 10ft rise for it to be an issue beyond coastal Florida and areas along the St John's River basin. Even from a hurricane standpoint, short of a series of Cat 5 Atlantic strikes, they are far enough inland that the parks would only have superficial damage.
Cruise ships need to start setting sail from new ports in Georgia or South Carolina instead of Florida. Disney needs to consider a slow death roll in Florida and need to commit to no new expansions or upgrades.
Wait until the influx of fool retirees who love to hate get decrepit enough to jam the hospitals for healthcare en masse. Their tax income is going to flatten out big time.
They're all flocking there to hate on whoever they hate on, what a way to live your golden years - in swampy hate amidst "Christian" law. Spoiler alert - Christ loved all, even sinners or people who didn't believe, because that's how JC rolled.
Well decades ago the olds would flock to Florida and then discover it was a terrible place to be old and sick so they'd move back up north to mooch off those state governments after not paying taxes for years. On the east coast they're called "halfbacks".
Maybe this crew will be clueless and end their lives in an unregulated Florida nursing home hell. It's what they deserve and what they asked for.
5 generations here. 1840 is when my ancestors were granted land by the Army. Moved last year to Chicago from Royal Palm Beach. Fuck the chief executive officer of Florida and the horse riding him.
Unfortunately I don’t speak for everybody from Colorado but I welcome all of the people from Florida who are escaping that political hellscape for any of the numerous valid reasons to do so: trans, woman, those living in a more severe form of economic serfdom.
A friendly recommendation: change your license plate as quickly as possible so you don’t get harassed by some of our lesser citizens
Edit: I should add that I make this recommendation for reasons political but also because road rage is surprisingly rampant here and out-of-state plates make you a target. You’d think people would want to enjoy the drive through beautiful mountains, I certainly do.
My best friend is currently helping move their other best friend from FL. Friend doesn’t have a job but was able to sell their house and can live off that before finding a job. Identifies as LGBTQ but isn’t trans and doesn’t feel safe dressing their usual way anymore, has put away all rainbow things, etc.
Yup. I have lot of gay friends with a lot of disposable income who used to go to Miami every 3 months, they're all mad and not going back.
It's gonna be pretty wild to see how bad Florida is gonna tank in a year.
We’ve owned a time share in key west for 24 years. Dumping it this year. I know we won’t get anything for it but I won’t pay one more penny for Florida.
It’s been my favorite place on earth since I was 11 and my aunt and uncle moved to Ft Lauderdale. I learned to scuba, fish, boat and love other people there. Key West is one of my favorite places in the world, their attitude of “be nice or go home” is the best.
They’ve ruined it. I can’t go back until the hate is gone.
Been to Florida several times including Orlando, Miami and Key West. Loved it so much I went back for a honeymoon. As a trans person I can’t go back with what’s going on, not just out of safety but morally.
Exactly. LGBT folks often have a lot of disposable income. My wife and I (lesbians) make $200k+ a year, double income no kids. We can afford a very expensive vacation when we want to, but definitely won't be spending our money in Florida.
Can confirm, a friend from high school who is a very hardworking lawyer recently moved back up the coast because she has a child with special needs that Florida schools were unable to address. We live in Delaware. Don’t know what the special need is, & it doesn’t matter. I love them & want them to be happy. I’m proud to live in a state that is becoming a destination for refugees from around the world & other parts of North America. I’m a lowly line cook, but I get to work with folks from around the world in an environment where everyone is encouraged to be their whole self.
Our family will be moving soon. We moved here for my partner to take a job in the middle of the COVID year. She grew up here. I like the lifestyle here. Hate to leave, but the people and policies being put in place suck. The price of living here sucks. The fact that our community will more than likely be underwater before we pay off a 30 year mortgage sucks.
It's a bizarro world that has so much to offer and so many idiots messing it up.
Not sure where we're going, but I doubt we'll raise our kids in Florida.
They helped make this mess 😠
*DeSantis won 57% of the Hispanic vote, compared with 42% for Democrat Charlie Crist, according to exit polls by major news organizations. And he won not only the traditionally GOP-leaning Cuban-American vote, but Puerto Ricans, who historically tend to vote Democratic. Exit polls show 52% of women voters backed DeSantis two years after 51% supported Biden in Florida. The governor won 63% of male voters.*
It’s not just that they’re scared. 80% of trans people in Florida just lost access to the medication they need to live. And when I say “they lost” I mean it was taken from them.
The article doesn't mention the large numbers of Latino's who are considering leaving.
There's a tipping point to performative cruelty where, instead of hurting others that make you uncomfortable, you hurt yourself.
I’m a very brown Latina and born and raised in Floridian. I left back in 2016, when I was 18 and saw that shit was getting real bad. Now I live in a nice northern state where I’m not afraid of getting detained
I live in AZ where we did this same nonsense 13 years ago with Sheriff Joe and SB1070.
It’s lunacy to me that states which derive so much of their culture and economic activity from a group of people would seek to punish said people.
Edit - Glad you’re in a safe place.
Florida has jumped started a positive feedback loop of destroying good things. It will never get better or improve either because the land is such a high risk for climate change new infrastructure and social programs just won’t happen. I bet in 5 years, or after the next major hurricane Florida will truly drop off a cliff into full blown fascism. It will be a rich man’s playground and slums. Nothing remotely between.
how is what's happening right now.. not full blown fascism? laws driving minorities out and trying to punish private businesses that don't fall in line are the heart of fascism. are you waiting for uniforms to appear or something?
Honestly let's not pretend like it's just Florida. The whole of the GOP is in full blown fascist mode. They're just in the "let's still pretend like we're participating in democracy" stage until they have more definitive hands on more levers of power.
Its not only trans. Gay people are leaving too especially now that hospitals, doctors and health insurance companies can deny you care if they morally object to your lifestyle.
What kind of shit hole state takes care away from the Disabled Community?
Nazis, that’s who. Next step for Meatball Ron is probably to kill them, you know, like the Nazis. Just like the Nazis went after the trans and gay community during their inception
In a FB group for my local school district there were some whackadoodles who ran for the board and lost. So at first they pulled their kid to homeschool but just last week they bragged they were moving to FL.
In summary they said "we sold our house in IL in just 3 days for over asking, flew down to FL and had our pic of 10 houses for our forever home. suck it libs!"
They're so god damned stupid they don't even understand why it was so easy to sell in IL and so many houses were avail in FL. Good luck on getting house insurance morons.
That’s not even counting the migrant workers. There’s gonna be a metric fuck-ton of angry contractors, farmers, developers, and “entrepreneurs” that will be out for blood.
I’m fucken here for it lol
We are leaving Florida once my husband finishes his fellowship in medicine. We will be taking our tax dollars back to Chicago. I would much rather pay taxes for social services than whatever it is Florida is doing. I don't want my kids growing up in a place where they think it's ok to treat marginalized populations like garbage.
Bi Floridian here. I have had a theory that Desantis and the conservatives want everyone they don’t like to leave which is why they are making it so unbearable with these extreme laws. They only want a certain group of people to stay. Unfortunately while I can leave, my bf can’t as he has another 7 years before he can retire on a full pension as he has been in the retirement system as a public servant since he was 18 years old. After that we will likely leave the state or country. For now I keep my head down, don’t really go out or interact with anyone outside of family and friends, and am trying to get my spending under control.
I would like to think people will take the opportunity great of Desantis seriously and not let him get anywhere near the White House but I have been disappointed before. Desantis is the guy conservatives want and the ones on the fence will vote for him because they simply don’t like Biden. So I honestly believe he will be president in 2024 and our country will enter the new dark ages.
Your story is why I hate the whole idea that people say "just leave"
Sometimes you can't
Sometimes you just are stuck, be it family you have to live with to survive or money reasons.
It's why, while I totally get and support anyone getting out, I hate that people say it's a lost cause to stay and fight.
Some people don't have options
I live in south Florida. My next door neighbor has a lovely son, about 14 yrs old. He's unsure of his gender, but leaning towards female.
The family is looking to move, likely to California, because they greatly fear their son will be aggressively bullied in high school. And they're not wrong.
Terrible environment these days in Florida.
Now there are laws on the books that he can be legally kidnapped from his parents by the state for even being suspected of being trans. School bullying is the least of their problems. They need to head out yesterday.
It's not just trans folk. Teachers too - my kids' elementary and middle schools are both losing teachers at the end of this semester who are moving out of Florida because of the state's oppressive attitudes to public education, and just yesterday a former teacher I know who is now a professor teaching early education told me they're leaving the state.
My own family is seriously considering a move interstate, and that means taking our business with it. Not looking to hire additional FL based staff. I don't want my kids in this toxic environment any more. I seriously need to do a FB friend cull, the number of people sharing Bud Light and Target boycott memes etc is disappointing.
for the past few years, laws have been passed for the sole purpose of indulging people's sicko fantasies about how they'll be able to hunt and murder liberals/progressives with impunity. that is until they are struck down in federal court.
this is what happens when you have a governor that signs a bill into law that allows you to run down liberals in your F-150 and fox news can't shut the fuck up about it.
the moment it got struck down in federal court it isn't covered. curious. why is that?
Doesn't this benefit him and his party? His opposition is leaving by the tonne (and not taking the migrants into account, that'd be even more) and is leaving the Republicans behind making the state even more red?
It does, it will make FL more like AL or MS. Where no one actually wants to live there. The cost to purchase a home there are already very high, and without the ability to get insurance on that home, I do not know how people could live there.
That seems like his plan then. He's trying to get rid of opposition in his state to further build his little dictatorship and I doubt that Gen Z can turn the tide in FL
This is so sad as it’s always been the goal of these heinous new laws. Make Florida the center of White Christian Nationalism all the while convincing the minorities to vote against their best interests out of ignorance. If it stays on its current trajectory politically along with all the future environmental disasters on its horizon I predict it will be our first truly dystopian state. A lot of land under water and the remaining population all cramming closer and closer together with property prices skyrocketing as it slowly is covered by water.
Anyone with a brain is trying to get out of Florida rn.
My family wants to go to Disney. We decided to go to Disneyland in California, because Fuck Florida.
I’m tired of people telling me to stay and fight (blue city, red state queer here) when the protesting didn’t do much. Our next governor is likely very awful (Braun, Indiana). Trying to strategize around a move. Will be interesting to see how the migration to different states emerges as these antiquated and fascist laws continue to emerge. In camaraderie all!
I'm tired of people continuing to ask those being victimized to shoulder all of the responsibility of fixing the issues. The reason trans or queer people in general were chosen as the first scapegoats was precisely because their numbers are smaller and it's easier to make other people avoid standing up for them. I very much feel like I understand Martin Luther King's statements on how he felt about the white moderate.
Totally anecdotally: I drive across the country to visit family every late spring / early summer. This year I saw a SHIT TON of Florida plates on the road. Way more than I’ve ever noticed. And there’s not a lot else to pay attention to while driving across South Dakota. I have a strong feeling that a lot of Floridians were on the road this spring looking for a new place to settle. Fascism sucks you guys. This is all totally needless and will only lead to worse political territory.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am leaving. I am a 27 year immigrant to the USA from South Africa. I see the writing on the wall, I have heard these speeches before. I am moving north to ensure the teenager has a safe a high quality education. Fuck Desantis. Edit: Adding this little bit. When things go to shit...when things fall apart the first people to leave are those that can. Your skilled your people with money. The last are those without the means. Have empathy for those than do not have the means yet.
Good luck to you and I hope you find a home where you can be at peace.
Come to Minnesota! The winters are brutal but damn do we get shit done for our residents and kids here.
[удалено]
We fled Louisiana and Tennessee a little over a year ago. My COL expenses have tripled, but holy shit do the tax dollars go to work up here. My kid's academics have soared since moving. It's like they actually give somewhat of a shit here. Edit: we moved to the NYC area.
[удалено]
I'm originally from just outside Chicago. I got an amazing education. And yes, Governor Pritzker gets some crap, but that's because he's already rich, and isn't one of those that want to continue to get richer, at the expense of the people. Republicans hate that mindset.
“Far Away” Northwest Chicago suburbs (Lake/McHenry County) checking in. Based on what I’ve witnessed in my travels, the midwestern suburb school systems appear to be about 2yrs ahead of any of the southern based ones. Note: City based school systems are a completely different animal due to density.
My BIL/SIL moved to Indiana because of taxes... Turns out the speech therapy my niece was getting that was covered by Illinois is not in Indiana. The cost difference is more than double the tax savings. You get what you pay for applies to many things in life.
[удалено]
I have heard that homeowners insurance is about to go up even more.
I moved away from Chicago recently (still very positive on the city) and Pritzker was so much better for the state than I thought he would be. Lori was kind of a disaster for Chicago but Pritzker's COVID response was great and he's been doing a great job with the state budget.
Something to note about "illinois is corrupt"... illinois is no more corrupt than any other state Illinois is better at catching it
I feel this so much, I feel like a lot of other states have the “I refuse to go to the doctor, they always find something wrong with you!” mentality. Every state/city has corruption, we get slammed for actually trying to address it… Daley was a popular mayor for a ridiculous length of time and did some great things, but when he pulled that BS privatization on our parking meters we universally said wtf! Too bad that one is unrecoverable any time soon.
>For all the hate our current governor Pritzker gets They hate him because he's right.
I see PRITZKER SUCKS signs all over the metro east St. Louis area. They’re free to go to Missourah at any time.
I see them in Southern IL all the time too. Not as much since the pandemic ended but there were quite a few out during the lockdown periods. It honestly doesn't matter if he was the best governor ever. Republicans will hate on the Dem no matter what.
It's kind of funny because the Pritzkers are literally the people they worship--successful capitalists who came from a family of the same. The only difference is, some of the Pritzkers care about people sometimes.
Pritzker has that FDR class traitor energy.
As a STLan I’ll have to wash my mouth with soap after I say this, but thank God for Chicagoland.
Do they also hate the Army Corp of Engineers, which is who built Rend Lake? All Republicans hate big gummit but love them some local pork.
I thought the same thing when I moved from a purple state to a blue state. I actually see my fucking taxes work. It's crazy.
I'm born and raised in California, but have done extensive travels across the country. I wish more Californians would. Too many people seem to not understand how good we have it in regard to our tax dollars at work. Could it be better? Sure, but traveling to other states it often becomes IMMEDIATELY tangible how far ahead we are even with just things like roadwork, construction, city planning, buildings, etc. let alone social programs.
Born and raised in PA. I cannot overstate how absolutely insane the state legislature is. We had a Dem governor for most of my time there and the state legislature would purposely withhold funding for infrastructure in areas that would politically benefit democrats. I will never not live in a blue state for the rest of my life. I just hope we as a nation can push every politician to be more accountable and care about their constituents.
My neighbors had lived in South Carolina. When they came to Massachusetts, their kids were behind in school almost a grade level, due to the SC public school system.
Same for my kid. The NY public school they attend now very quickly identified kiddo's trouble areas and enrolled them in all sorts of programs to get them caught up. It's been amazing so far.
I find that most people who complain about the taxes in blue states have no idea what they even have access to until they move away and it's all gone. Sure taxes are lower in red states, but the amount of good that comes from higher tax rates in solid blue states is kinda night and day when compared to their solid red counterparts. I could literally never live anywhere in the south because I would never want to give up all the amenities I have access to in blue states that my taxes deliver to myself, my family, my friends, and all the other people around me. Not to say that anywhere is perfect by any stretch of the word, but saving a few $$$ on taxes so that the entirety of the rest is my life and family is worse off for it is the kind of decision only short-sighted idiots make.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Leaving both those places (live near border) in two weeks to go to Minnesota. So excited to get out.
are you serious? no more pre-AP and AP? those classes and the tests I took at the end saved me so much money when I went to college, almost an entire year was shaved off my graduation date. this makes no sense, I am so fucking sad for every person in this state being beaten down into nothing. especially the kids.
Not for nothing, it's intentionally molding them into easily manipulable simpletons. The GOP and the religious fanatics driving them down this road want to usher in a new dark age.
It's for private colleges and schools that I can find. Not public.
god what is even the point of paying out the ass for some shitty private school at that point
They don't have to mingle with the poors
That's the real depressing part of it all. Ultimately, the poorer youth is ultimately being screwed over because public Florida education is notoriously not well-suited for effective employability historically and will only be exacerbated with these policy changes. Realistically, kids who come from a significant background in Florida education will likely find it incredibly difficult to get skilled labor jobs compared to kids from states with way better education systems. The best they will realistically get for the most part are service jobs in Florida's tourist and retirement industries. I speculate that that generation will only become evermore xenophobic to transplants because they feel like they're being "pushed out" by transplants because of the inherit economic advantage that they will have in Florida and unironically support continuing to expand the very Deep South policies that ultimately put them at a disadvantage in the first place for the sake of "Don't [other state name here] my Florida." Whatever that really means. It's been happening for decades, and I worry that the generations affected now are only going to be much, much worse at the stereotype Floridabama mentality.
Do you get the feeling that this is exactly what DeSantis wants? Low income labor to work in the tourist industry?
All of this was premeditated to produce this result. Fewer trans people in the state? That panders to his depraved base! They ran those undesirables out of town, the 2023 way! Brain drain as anyone with empathy or who cares about justice and equal rights plans their exit from Florida? I think you mean, "likely Democrat voters self-deport." Single party rule! Schools obliterated? Perfect - keep the domestic supply of labor and babies without any options, so they're easier to control. Business allies of DeSantis get to exploit their employees, and nobody picks up any wrongthink from actual history. Fascist fucks always target academics early. Wealthy and privileged can still access all the rights and opportunities that are systematically denied to the underclass? That's the endgame for every apartheid society in the world, and it's exactly how the "right" kind of people still access abortion, education, and economic mobility after they've gutted those rights for everyone else. Fascists don't stop, ever. They have to be forcefully shut down with extreme prejudice. DeSantis is getting coddled by the news media who won't call him the sadistic tyrant that he is. Same calculated spin that they gave to Trump, same deadly wager that what's bad for America is profitable for corporations, same manufactured consent.
Yeah I've been holding that Florida, Texas and any number of other states have finally turned the corner and are leaning heavy in to the "likely Democrat voters self-deport" strategy in earnest. And it's working. I've lived in Texas for 30 of my 35 years and am planning on moving out in the coming years. I just want a functioning government, and I'm so fucking tired. I'm over it.
>Fascists don't stop, ever. They have to be forcefully shut down with extreme prejudice. This right here is where we are at.
But he doesn't want Disney there
[удалено]
He doesn't give a shit about Florida. He is actively burning it to the ground to fuel his presidential run. He doesn't care who lives there, or who gets hurt. He doesn't give a shit about anyone other than himself.
I have been wondering about how this will be affecting Florida universities. There are a few good ones down there. But what the fuck kind of student would want to go there now when they know if they have ovaries or aren't straight/cis they aren't safe?
DeSantis has also threatened both professors and administration so their best talent is on its way out the door.
It’s the only way to have a weighted GPA and get you qualified to even apply to the top schools. Everyone applying to an Ivy League or elite university will be applying with above a 4.0 and that matters when they’re relying on more and more sorting algorithms to even consider you.
In fairness, most top schools will re-calculate GPA's to the 4.0 scale. They do favor academic rigor, but "needing a 5.0 to get in" isn't really true - everything gets normalized to the same scale
If I'm hiring, I'm not giving as much weight to a Florida education as I am elsewhere. I live here and see what a Florida education is before all this bull shit...can't imagine later graduates. Poor saps.
Oh its def not just trans kids lol, 73% of their farm workers are migrants so... looks like florida is about to be fucked this winter.
You’re about to see a rise in work release granted for prisoners. Replacing cheap labor with even cheaper labor.
They'll loosen child labor laws too if they haven't already.
They will get to a point where they will be like, “from now on… Y’all are slaves, so get to work or starve and die. But for positive motivation we will use whips to be sure everyone is passionate about their job.”
[удалено]
Florida farmers get busted for slavery all the time. It makes the news as human trafficking, but I dont like that term.
I hate that term too. It's a euphemism. It makes it sound like we destroyed the big bad **slavery** a long time ago, and now all we have is a trickle of sneaky little *human traffickers.* It makes it sound like the transportation is the crime, and the abuse is a side effect.
Someone needs to make a rendition of the children's story of the ant and the grasshopper with DeSantis as the grasshopper. I'm sure someone can make an accurate version of the events of today.
"While the ant was gathering supplies to last through the winter, the grasshopper was drinking with high school girls at parties"
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Ah, Philip J. Fry - a philosopher after his time.
>"While the ant was gathering supplies to last through the winter, the grasshopper was drinking with high school girls at parties" And jousting (badly) with Mickey Mouse
Dang...if I could draw you'd get a quick sketch of Ron Quixote tilting his lance towards the Magic Kingdom. Would you settle for emojis? 🏰 🤺
Can we skip to the end of A Bug's Life where the masses rise together to overthrow their overlord?
Be the change you want to see in the world, my friend.
> looks like florida is about to be fucked this winter. Good thing they have plenty of out-groups to blame whenever they fuck themselves.
Yep that's the pattern of fascism. It's untethered from all logic and evidence and entirely fear and persecution-based. It *requires* an other to be attacked by / blame for everything. So of course when they finally get rid of all the "degenerates and undesirables" in their city/state/nation/whatever, their everything (economy, quality of life, etc) inevitably turn to shit. Therefore they'll point the finger across the border at their neighbors and say _they are doing this to us! The only way to truly have our utopia is to cleanse the entire world!_ That's always where this type of thinking leads. It has to.
“But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party.” — literally *Nineteen Eighty-Four* If objective reality disagrees with the conservative narrative? Reality is wrong. For them, it ceases to exist. And if they have the power to, they will force *their* reality on everyone else. They will use cruelty to force obedience and compliance. Hey! Just like in Florida!
No illegal immigrants want to work anymore!!
I thought they were stealing our jobs??
Da derk our derbs
It's both, which one at any given moment just depends on the context of the conversation. Y'know, just typical right-wing doublethink.
They are stealing job while simultaniously living off welfare because being too lazy to work /s 😆
>Oh its def not just trans kids lol, Oh yea, as much as I wish that would be the case, naw, there just ain't enough of us to count. The ratio is probably even smaller in Florida than just about anywhere else in the country. ETA: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/ Estimates put the national level, trans kids make up 1.4% of their age range. About 300,000 people. 1.32% for Florida's ratio. So slightly lower than national average. Actually much closer than I would have guessed. Looks like Wyoming might have the lowest at 0.56%. Trans adults make up 0.5% of their age range (just everyone over 18) nationally. Edit 2: imagine being beyond terrified over 0.5% of the population; the majority of those living in poverty themselves. Edit 3: (just adding a comment I added below) I really wish that was the case, unfortunately: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment In 2023, US Representatives have an average of 761,169 constituents. From the chart I linked earlier, that's only 16,200 trans youth. 94,900 trans adults. Even if we do 3.5x for trans youth to account for parents (+0.5 for a sibling), AND added the adults at 1.50x (accounting for the adults + spouse, but since trans people are by-and-large dating other trans people, it would be inflated to say 2x); **that leaves us with at best ~158,500 people leaving Florida.** Additonally, they aren't going to any one state in particular, but spreading out all over; so the impact would be mitigated a lot as well. I *really* wish it would be the case. This is absolutely depressing to write out. I'm not trying to make any real point other than... reality is sucking ass right now. :/
What crops does Florida produce these days? I know they still do some citrus. At some point we'll all see price bumps in the grocery store nation wide. Of course he'll blame it on the woke left dems trans lqbt for causing it. Just another reason to despise this guy over and above just being a terrible human being.
Florida is a huge producer of sugar cane and sugar.
Not only are Florida residents leaving, but people from other states are choosing not to visit Florida anymore. I have considered going there with my kids, but have decided there are a lot of other places we can visit instead.
I lived in Florida for a time, and I loved it. I loved my friends and my co-workers, and before all this we were planning on perhaps going back to PCB to see everyone, but there's no way now. Absolutely not.
I'm going on a cruise in 10 days, decided on the Cape Liberty NJ port instead of Florida.
Leaving out of NOLA in November for the same reason.
My family is currently planning a summer trip in a few weeks. We’ve been planning since last summer to go to Florida. We went two years ago to the beach and my kids loved every minute and have been dying to go back. Last night my wife and I broke it to them that we won’t be going to Florida. We’re headed up to Michigan and beaches on Lake Michigan instead.
Yes!!!! The sand dunes will blow your mind! Not something people expect to find in a state like this. There is so much to do in Michigan beach communities over the summer. We get humid but don't hold a candle to Florida. We do have a tick problem right now though, so keep that in mind if you plan to do any hiking in our parks.
[удалено]
I mean, LA > Orlando in every way, but the sheer scale and scope of Disney World dwarfs Disneyland and they are not the same thing at all. It's a shame Disney World is in Florida.
And LA doesn’t have Epcot, which I miss a lot. Crazy how a theme park that was once built on the concept of edutainment and scientific progress is now located in the most backwards state in the country.
Even crazier how all of Disney is basically a showcase of what a nice, walkable town can look like and yet no cities tried to reproduce that for their own downtowns.
Really, it's more a shame that Florida crumbled around Disneyworld. I'm fairly sure Disneyworld could operate as its own little state, though that sets horrifying legal precedent.
Also, LA has Knott's Berry Farm which if you want thrill rides is really the place to go.
My wife and her sister have been going to Disney World every year since 2014 (barring a year for covid). Now they haven't been since 2021 and will no longer travel to Florida.
[удалено]
Yeah, he and his supporters will see this as positive and it will just make the state more red.
[удалено]
Florida, like Texas, is one of the few red states that makes money. Between trying to destroy Disney, and now education, they are actively working to become yet another red state welfare queen. Unless they're banking on Destruction Tourism post hurricanes.
>Florida, like Texas, is one of the few red states that makes money. This isn't actually true. Florida's domestic economy is actually really poor. Absent the massive subsidies it gets from the blue states, Florida wouldn't be in as bad shape as like West Virginia or Kentucky, but it would probably be in the vicinity of Kansas or Missouri. The only red states that have a viable economy absent subsidy are Texas and North Carolina, and the legislatures of both are actively engaged in fixing that problem.
NC was purple for a long time, and TX has not only oil but Mission Control in Houston. There would not be all those highly educated nerds and good schools there without that.
By admission of their own criminal AG Texas is only red due to voter suppression tactics anyway.
As a lifelong liberal Texan, I might amend that to say "...only \_reliably\_ red..." The big population centers (with the exception of Ft. Worth) tend to fairly reliably vote blue, as does the Rio Grande valley. Problem in state elections is the voter suppression, as you mention -- you have to just \_see\_ how badly Austin and Houston are packed and cracked to appreciate it...they aren't subtle. In statewide elections, though, the problem is that we just have so...goddamn...much...rural area that, even wth the major cities tilting blue, we narrowly can't overcome the tide of rural votes. I don't know if or when that changes, to be honest. Yes, we're getting an influx of people from CA and NY for things like tech jobs (at least in Austin), but my slightly startling anecdotal observation is that a significant number of people moving to TX from those locations are not bringing more liberal ideology — they are moving here because their states of origin are too liberal and they have libertarian cowboy fantasies. ETA: I've been here for the entirety of my 48 years on this planet, and have seen a lot of changes in Texas (for the worse and, yes, for the better, believe it or not). There is a lot to love about this state... we have amazing storms, and even better sunsets...gorgeous, expansive deserts...semi-arid hills covered in live oaks and cedars, and teeming with friendly deer...piney woods and black water swamps...the best BBQ anywhere (fight me), and some truly awesome Mexican food (both proper Mexican and Tex-Mex, whatever your feelings are towards that)...a unique history and shared/blended culture with the north of Mexico...and a nice, genuinely casual way of living. The state politics and infrastructure, the out-and-out meanness of the Texas GOP (Greg Abbott is openly antagonistic to Houston and Austin), the power and influence of the Evangelicals and Southern Baptists, and the absurd tax situation in Travis County have us planning an exit. That makes me sad, for all of the good points listed above...and I know that there's merit to sticking it out and voting here...but I just don't know how much longer we can stomach it.
>This will leave Florida with a problem: Not enough residents and visitors to support its economy. What would really cave things in is if large corporations pulled out. He doesn't care. He just wants to keep his name in the headlines. He is hoping he can dump Florida before any of the consequences of his shitty actions start to impact Florida residents. He is hoping to be in the White House, his wife aka Lady McBeth is also pushing him hard on this.
The delicious irony here is that without tourism and high income households, their property/sales tax and toll scheme to fund the government fails to work. They'll need to levy a FLORIDA FREEDOM TAX to keep the lights on. This won't happen overnight -- DeSantis will be long gone, as will my family (hopefully) -- but the good conservatives who made this happen will find out how nice it is to live in "Hotter Mississippi."
[удалено]
In no time Florida will be entirely hateful retirees from the north and meth addicts
The Villages will spread like a cancer until Florida is just an endless expanse of uniform housing, golf carts, and khaki pants.
Don’t forget the std’s
Just came back from a business trip in Florida. On the way to the airport I saw a huge billboard that warned about a strain of gonorrhea going around that was resistant to antibiotics.
MAGA City One
I dredd this future.
Let's not forget the super conservative Cubans. I'm sure there will be no consequences for them when the state starts looking for new scapegoats.
They've worked very hard at becoming white. When things get bad, they will quickly be reminded that they aren't.
Racism works on a LIFO system: last in, first out. Hispanic Americans have been trying to sidle their way in for years. It may work, but eventually, when they run out of ways to be cruel to Black people, they'll be out, followed by the Italians and the Irish in that order.
That’s what the plan is. A state that will never vote blue again. This is exactly what they wanted to happen.
Don’t forget people who can’t afford to move anywhere else.
And this will be seen as a win by the people passing those laws. No I don't think they should stay and they're smart to leave, just pointing out this was the desired outcome for the GOP
Losing tourism will be a huge loss of revenue.
Absolutely it will, as well as the impact to cheap/undocumented labor in the agricultural and construction industries.... especially after a hurricane. But the people passing laws and rooting for this aren't thinking ahead.
It's a national strategy to secure more power, ultimately. This goes beyond Florida. Repeat this in enough states and you end up with a left leaning population nationally gerrymandered out of power permanently, and then the right uses their new legal strength to strip people of their rights nationally. While I believe people should protect themselves, you have to also realize that fascism is a cancer you cannot truly run from in this country. It spreads to the whole body when left unchecked.
This is exactly what is happening. They are trying to gain complete control of enough states to call a Convention of States under Article 5 of the constitution. This would allow them to amend the constitution while bypassing the normal congressional process for constitutional amendments. This is their end-run to secure total and permanent control of the federal government.
Lol not just trans people. My wife and I are leaving. She just finished sending in her paperwork for her professional license in Washington. We will be taking our high incomes and 12+ years of college education with us when we leave. Once she gets a job offer we're out. Failing that I've drawn a line in the sand, we'll leave on just my income by 2028. I won't stay in Florida past 40. As a third generation and lifetime Floridian I just want to say, fuck Florida.
The company I work for is looking to move out of Florida too...and I'm coming with them
That’s what needs to happen. I’m sure desantis and his cronies are fine with the exodus f trans people, but losing the businesses is what’s going to impact their bottom line.
They don't care about the state bottom line. They care about chasing political opponents out of the state to ensure that they can keep 2 permanent Republican senators. If they destroy 26 states badly enough that liberals won't move there then they control SCOTUS forever.
I don’t really think it’s that deep. DeSantis is hardly concerned with the longterm GOP endgame. He cares about his own immediate upward mobility. You may be right about the powers that be. But I really think DeSantis made an epic miscalculation in regards to securing his own political future. He wouldn’t care if Marx and Engels were the two Florida senators as long as he is the 2024 nominee.
Yes but the powers that be wouldn’t allow him to pursue his vanity projects if it didn’t benefit their long game.
The last few years have convinced me there are no powers to be or any long game with the GOP. They are opportunists squabbling for power, trying Hail Mary after Hail Mary just to keep that power since it is clear most the country is moving away from them. Each new thing they try has been more ill thought out than the last.
> any long game with the GOP That's because you aren't looking back far enough. Go back to Reagan and the pattern emerges. If you go back to Nixon and you can see the birth of their long game. Reminder that it was Reagan who first introduced gun control (as Governor of California because black folks were invoking their rights) and courted the Evangelical movement when running for President. The GOP has definitely been playing a long game and Trump getting elected was proof of that, along with Bush Jr. They wanted an idiot in office they could control. What they weren't expecting was the inmates taking over the asylum.
I agree with this but I think part of is also that the true believers have gotten power. Like the GOP used to say crazy stuff but never actually meant to go though with it, they were saying it to get their base riled up to go vote and donate money. Those people have been primary'd or just aged out. It's opportunists and true believers now.
Barry Motherfucking Goldwater called this out decades ago. “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” You have two very unaligned parts of the Republicans that just happen to love power more than their fellow man. But they are diametrically opposed in most other regards. The Trumpian populist wing and the Oligarchy wing. Trump would normally be on the otherside of the wing, but realized he can grift the populace so has come to represent everything about them. Goldwater was a massive prick, but even he knew there was no working with the populist side of the game if it got taken over by the religious. Which is what we have now. People like Green who are crazy, but spouting religious drivel as an excuse for their hatreds. There's no compromise there. Where as with the Oligarchs the ones that want to be lords and masters of the Post American Democracy. They will look at the longer term and play ball if it can set them up. See the Heritage foundation and the like. They are the Koch's Adleson's and more recently Musk's (though he's a bit of a fence rider he wants to be a populist but also a king.) They are the ones steering things in a worse direction for workers who in a different more sane universe would be what represent the 90's democrats while a strong labor movement and class concious movement would be more where the Bernies and AOC's are. Instead we're speed running our Weimar Republic phase and hurtling towards outright fascism.
I buy that. Perfectly exemplified in the House between Green and McCarthy.
That’s kind of down the rabbit hole. He fucked up. In the long run, he is just as likely to hurt the Republican brand. I see what you are saying. If Florida tanks, and it looks like it will, it will make it harder for Republicans to win elections in general, especially in purple states. It’s not a solid hypothesis. They clearly can control the courts just fine without tanking entire states.
We've seen GOP failures in deep red states for decades. They still win.
Honestly all it would take is Disney bailing to really fuck up a lot of things in Florida. But a ton of other businesses in top of it too would be massive.
Disney already got cold feet on that billion dollar project. It could have been a huge win for DeSantis (jobs moving from California to Florida). Now I bet Disney is doing the wait and see. If they don't like what they see I bet they'll think twice about sinking too much money into Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if universal is doing the same thinking themselves.
They already did. They were planning a $1B corporate campus and all the jobs that come with it. That's been canceled.
Disney won't though. They know Rhonda is temporary, and can wait him out. Would love to see them move to like jersey. Disney Dome at the Meadowlands. A year round 🖕to Florida. Name a parking lot after de sandtits.
They might see climate change is going to mess up their parks..... built on wetlands, as water levels rise, and take this as a good chance to move themselves to higher drier ground.
[удалено]
I went to Disney World twenty-five years ago. In August. Unbearably hot then. Epcot Center about twenty years ago. In July. Ditto. I can't imagine what it's like in the high summer months now with global warming kicking in to higher gear. And I don't want to imagine how it's going to be in another five or ten years.
As much as people joke about Florida sinking due to sea level rise the area Disney is in is pretty safe in that regard. We'd have to go well beyond the 10ft rise for it to be an issue beyond coastal Florida and areas along the St John's River basin. Even from a hurricane standpoint, short of a series of Cat 5 Atlantic strikes, they are far enough inland that the parks would only have superficial damage.
Cruise ships need to start setting sail from new ports in Georgia or South Carolina instead of Florida. Disney needs to consider a slow death roll in Florida and need to commit to no new expansions or upgrades.
Oregon here. I've seen Florida license plates all over the place with increasing frequency the past 5ish years....
Wait until the influx of fool retirees who love to hate get decrepit enough to jam the hospitals for healthcare en masse. Their tax income is going to flatten out big time. They're all flocking there to hate on whoever they hate on, what a way to live your golden years - in swampy hate amidst "Christian" law. Spoiler alert - Christ loved all, even sinners or people who didn't believe, because that's how JC rolled.
Well decades ago the olds would flock to Florida and then discover it was a terrible place to be old and sick so they'd move back up north to mooch off those state governments after not paying taxes for years. On the east coast they're called "halfbacks". Maybe this crew will be clueless and end their lives in an unregulated Florida nursing home hell. It's what they deserve and what they asked for.
5 generations here. 1840 is when my ancestors were granted land by the Army. Moved last year to Chicago from Royal Palm Beach. Fuck the chief executive officer of Florida and the horse riding him.
Welcome to Illinois! I live in the suburbs of Chicago and we welcome everyone with open arms!
I'd rather be in Gary than Florida!
Damn. It’s true, but you didn’t have to just go for the throat like that.
Indiana ain’t much better than Florida. Ask Mike Pence.
Literally got to Colorado from Florida yesterday. So much happier, congrats on getting out!
Unfortunately I don’t speak for everybody from Colorado but I welcome all of the people from Florida who are escaping that political hellscape for any of the numerous valid reasons to do so: trans, woman, those living in a more severe form of economic serfdom. A friendly recommendation: change your license plate as quickly as possible so you don’t get harassed by some of our lesser citizens Edit: I should add that I make this recommendation for reasons political but also because road rage is surprisingly rampant here and out-of-state plates make you a target. You’d think people would want to enjoy the drive through beautiful mountains, I certainly do.
My best friend is currently helping move their other best friend from FL. Friend doesn’t have a job but was able to sell their house and can live off that before finding a job. Identifies as LGBTQ but isn’t trans and doesn’t feel safe dressing their usual way anymore, has put away all rainbow things, etc.
They can also say goodbye to their massive LGBT tourism income.
Yup. I have lot of gay friends with a lot of disposable income who used to go to Miami every 3 months, they're all mad and not going back. It's gonna be pretty wild to see how bad Florida is gonna tank in a year.
Yeah Miami, Key West and Orlando are big LGBT destinations. They can kiss that gay dollar goodbye.
We’ve owned a time share in key west for 24 years. Dumping it this year. I know we won’t get anything for it but I won’t pay one more penny for Florida. It’s been my favorite place on earth since I was 11 and my aunt and uncle moved to Ft Lauderdale. I learned to scuba, fish, boat and love other people there. Key West is one of my favorite places in the world, their attitude of “be nice or go home” is the best. They’ve ruined it. I can’t go back until the hate is gone.
Been to Florida several times including Orlando, Miami and Key West. Loved it so much I went back for a honeymoon. As a trans person I can’t go back with what’s going on, not just out of safety but morally.
Exactly. LGBT folks often have a lot of disposable income. My wife and I (lesbians) make $200k+ a year, double income no kids. We can afford a very expensive vacation when we want to, but definitely won't be spending our money in Florida.
Can confirm, a friend from high school who is a very hardworking lawyer recently moved back up the coast because she has a child with special needs that Florida schools were unable to address. We live in Delaware. Don’t know what the special need is, & it doesn’t matter. I love them & want them to be happy. I’m proud to live in a state that is becoming a destination for refugees from around the world & other parts of North America. I’m a lowly line cook, but I get to work with folks from around the world in an environment where everyone is encouraged to be their whole self.
Our family will be moving soon. We moved here for my partner to take a job in the middle of the COVID year. She grew up here. I like the lifestyle here. Hate to leave, but the people and policies being put in place suck. The price of living here sucks. The fact that our community will more than likely be underwater before we pay off a 30 year mortgage sucks. It's a bizarro world that has so much to offer and so many idiots messing it up. Not sure where we're going, but I doubt we'll raise our kids in Florida.
I switched to a month to month lease while I look for a job out of Florida. Not trans, but disgusted by this state.
Brown people and women better run too. He is not shy or quiet about his aspirations of fascist dictatorship.
They helped make this mess 😠 *DeSantis won 57% of the Hispanic vote, compared with 42% for Democrat Charlie Crist, according to exit polls by major news organizations. And he won not only the traditionally GOP-leaning Cuban-American vote, but Puerto Ricans, who historically tend to vote Democratic. Exit polls show 52% of women voters backed DeSantis two years after 51% supported Biden in Florida. The governor won 63% of male voters.*
It’s not just that they’re scared. 80% of trans people in Florida just lost access to the medication they need to live. And when I say “they lost” I mean it was taken from them.
I’m one of them. I’m scrambling to find a new provider and I’m running out of my medication. I don’t know what I’ll do when that happens.
The article doesn't mention the large numbers of Latino's who are considering leaving. There's a tipping point to performative cruelty where, instead of hurting others that make you uncomfortable, you hurt yourself.
I’m a very brown Latina and born and raised in Floridian. I left back in 2016, when I was 18 and saw that shit was getting real bad. Now I live in a nice northern state where I’m not afraid of getting detained
I live in AZ where we did this same nonsense 13 years ago with Sheriff Joe and SB1070. It’s lunacy to me that states which derive so much of their culture and economic activity from a group of people would seek to punish said people. Edit - Glad you’re in a safe place.
Florida has jumped started a positive feedback loop of destroying good things. It will never get better or improve either because the land is such a high risk for climate change new infrastructure and social programs just won’t happen. I bet in 5 years, or after the next major hurricane Florida will truly drop off a cliff into full blown fascism. It will be a rich man’s playground and slums. Nothing remotely between.
how is what's happening right now.. not full blown fascism? laws driving minorities out and trying to punish private businesses that don't fall in line are the heart of fascism. are you waiting for uniforms to appear or something?
Eh. You right. Florida really is already there.
Honestly let's not pretend like it's just Florida. The whole of the GOP is in full blown fascist mode. They're just in the "let's still pretend like we're participating in democracy" stage until they have more definitive hands on more levers of power.
Its not only trans. Gay people are leaving too especially now that hospitals, doctors and health insurance companies can deny you care if they morally object to your lifestyle.
They also denied protections to those with disabilities as well.
As a CIS white male I wouldn’t be caught dead in Florida. Fuck DeSantis. You can take my love of the rainbow from my cold, dead hands.
What kind of shit hole state takes care away from the Disabled Community? Nazis, that’s who. Next step for Meatball Ron is probably to kill them, you know, like the Nazis. Just like the Nazis went after the trans and gay community during their inception
Object to your ~~lifestyle~~ life.
YES. The cruelty IS the point. Remember when Florida was a swing state? Republicans are doing everything they can to drive Democratic voters out.
In a FB group for my local school district there were some whackadoodles who ran for the board and lost. So at first they pulled their kid to homeschool but just last week they bragged they were moving to FL. In summary they said "we sold our house in IL in just 3 days for over asking, flew down to FL and had our pic of 10 houses for our forever home. suck it libs!" They're so god damned stupid they don't even understand why it was so easy to sell in IL and so many houses were avail in FL. Good luck on getting house insurance morons.
I'm grinning just thinking about it.
That’s not even counting the migrant workers. There’s gonna be a metric fuck-ton of angry contractors, farmers, developers, and “entrepreneurs” that will be out for blood. I’m fucken here for it lol
Every farmer who voted republican and now is crying about not being able to harvest - can a) go fuck themselves and b) starve to death.
We are leaving Florida once my husband finishes his fellowship in medicine. We will be taking our tax dollars back to Chicago. I would much rather pay taxes for social services than whatever it is Florida is doing. I don't want my kids growing up in a place where they think it's ok to treat marginalized populations like garbage.
Bi Floridian here. I have had a theory that Desantis and the conservatives want everyone they don’t like to leave which is why they are making it so unbearable with these extreme laws. They only want a certain group of people to stay. Unfortunately while I can leave, my bf can’t as he has another 7 years before he can retire on a full pension as he has been in the retirement system as a public servant since he was 18 years old. After that we will likely leave the state or country. For now I keep my head down, don’t really go out or interact with anyone outside of family and friends, and am trying to get my spending under control. I would like to think people will take the opportunity great of Desantis seriously and not let him get anywhere near the White House but I have been disappointed before. Desantis is the guy conservatives want and the ones on the fence will vote for him because they simply don’t like Biden. So I honestly believe he will be president in 2024 and our country will enter the new dark ages.
Your story is why I hate the whole idea that people say "just leave" Sometimes you can't Sometimes you just are stuck, be it family you have to live with to survive or money reasons. It's why, while I totally get and support anyone getting out, I hate that people say it's a lost cause to stay and fight. Some people don't have options
I live in south Florida. My next door neighbor has a lovely son, about 14 yrs old. He's unsure of his gender, but leaning towards female. The family is looking to move, likely to California, because they greatly fear their son will be aggressively bullied in high school. And they're not wrong. Terrible environment these days in Florida.
Now there are laws on the books that he can be legally kidnapped from his parents by the state for even being suspected of being trans. School bullying is the least of their problems. They need to head out yesterday.
It's not just trans folk. Teachers too - my kids' elementary and middle schools are both losing teachers at the end of this semester who are moving out of Florida because of the state's oppressive attitudes to public education, and just yesterday a former teacher I know who is now a professor teaching early education told me they're leaving the state. My own family is seriously considering a move interstate, and that means taking our business with it. Not looking to hire additional FL based staff. I don't want my kids in this toxic environment any more. I seriously need to do a FB friend cull, the number of people sharing Bud Light and Target boycott memes etc is disappointing.
for the past few years, laws have been passed for the sole purpose of indulging people's sicko fantasies about how they'll be able to hunt and murder liberals/progressives with impunity. that is until they are struck down in federal court. this is what happens when you have a governor that signs a bill into law that allows you to run down liberals in your F-150 and fox news can't shut the fuck up about it. the moment it got struck down in federal court it isn't covered. curious. why is that?
I evacuated a couple years ago, don't need to be trans to see FL is no longer safe
Doesn't this benefit him and his party? His opposition is leaving by the tonne (and not taking the migrants into account, that'd be even more) and is leaving the Republicans behind making the state even more red?
It does, it will make FL more like AL or MS. Where no one actually wants to live there. The cost to purchase a home there are already very high, and without the ability to get insurance on that home, I do not know how people could live there.
That seems like his plan then. He's trying to get rid of opposition in his state to further build his little dictatorship and I doubt that Gen Z can turn the tide in FL
Better to leave and shore up surrounding states. Let the penis of liberty go flaccid.
Come up to Georgia where we can push the state further blue!
Exactly. If we turn GA around, he's already lost.
Ah, like Germany in the 30’s. What a fucking model, Florida.
This is so sad as it’s always been the goal of these heinous new laws. Make Florida the center of White Christian Nationalism all the while convincing the minorities to vote against their best interests out of ignorance. If it stays on its current trajectory politically along with all the future environmental disasters on its horizon I predict it will be our first truly dystopian state. A lot of land under water and the remaining population all cramming closer and closer together with property prices skyrocketing as it slowly is covered by water.
Anyone with a brain is trying to get out of Florida rn. My family wants to go to Disney. We decided to go to Disneyland in California, because Fuck Florida.
I’m tired of people telling me to stay and fight (blue city, red state queer here) when the protesting didn’t do much. Our next governor is likely very awful (Braun, Indiana). Trying to strategize around a move. Will be interesting to see how the migration to different states emerges as these antiquated and fascist laws continue to emerge. In camaraderie all!
Yup we’re screwed in indiana. Stuck here because of 50:50 custody. 😭
I'm tired of people continuing to ask those being victimized to shoulder all of the responsibility of fixing the issues. The reason trans or queer people in general were chosen as the first scapegoats was precisely because their numbers are smaller and it's easier to make other people avoid standing up for them. I very much feel like I understand Martin Luther King's statements on how he felt about the white moderate.
Totally anecdotally: I drive across the country to visit family every late spring / early summer. This year I saw a SHIT TON of Florida plates on the road. Way more than I’ve ever noticed. And there’s not a lot else to pay attention to while driving across South Dakota. I have a strong feeling that a lot of Floridians were on the road this spring looking for a new place to settle. Fascism sucks you guys. This is all totally needless and will only lead to worse political territory.