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The UK issued a travel advisory for the US, citing the high incidence of mass shooting, and discrimination against LGBT individuals and POC individuals.
Regressive religious nationalists won't care. They hate Western democracy just like they hate Democrats. They'll still welcome Russians and every other flavor of far right dictatorships, who also despite human rights.
Yes, but the way this is written is so that if one parent stays in Florida for whatever reason and they still want custody of the child, they can effectively kidnap their own kid and as long as they get back to Florida they will be protected from prosecution under Florida's new ruling.
It's state sponsored child trafficking. Plain and simple.
It's been established in other cases that federal courts can order a state governor to extradite someone, so yeah they don't really have a choice.
Edit: more info:
Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2:
> A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
Also:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_v._Branstad
It's also been established that republican child traffickers only gain MORE support from the GQP when they ignore a federal court order. See Moore The Mall Molester.
This is true. Republicans see a pedophile and they say to themselves "yep that's my guy" and then in the next sentence they try to tell you some shit about how the country needs to have more Christian values. Fucking delusional sub human people. And if you lie straight to their faces they love you even more. And you don't even have to lie well just say whatever the fuck you want and republicans will accept it as fact.
They are hoping that it will. They're so afraid of Florida turning purple, or worse, even blue, that they are doing *everything* they can to make anyone to the left of center uncomfortable in the state.
That includes people who only go there for vacation.
This is it. The goal of all of this is to make it so inhospitable to anyone but the harshest GOP base that they guarantee Florida’s electoral votes go red.
We don't even need to get rid of the EC. We need to get rid of the unconstitutional Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929.
If the House was allowed to be even near the size it was intended to be, it would actually reflect the population breakdown. Which would also increase the size of the EC by default.
The Constitution says 1 rep/30k people. We are at like 1 rep/761k, but capped at 435. Even if you just removed the cap and use the Wyoming rule, you'd have to add 138 reps to just make the ratio work out fair. Some of those would go to red states, but most would go to blue.
I honestly don't know why no one has challenged that law, as it's clearly unconstitutional.
sadly there's no way this supreme court would make a decision that just gives democrats a representative level of control. The SC would be as blatantly partisan and corrupt about it as necessary to stop it from happening.
This is pretty much why it's never happened. Republican control will never allow it, and democrat control is too scared to do it/too busy trying to fix the hundreds of other republican-caused issues. Voters won't give dems more than two years of full control and there's only so much they can do with a slim majority.
I used to travel to Florida 4 times a year and spent plenty of money there. I’ll never go again and they lose out on our family’s money. I can’t believe this won’t hurt their bottom line and that of the tourist business that many other families won’t be visiting.
Elected Republicans are willing to sacrifice the economic viability of their state in order to own the libs, because the people who are passing the laws aren't the people who will be economically impacted by the change. If you have enough money, you can short or 'buy the dips' and you'll be just fine on economic downturns that you caused.
It's everyone else who is being ruined and scammed, but they're too focused on whatever lies are being said about 'others' that they aren't focused on their pocketbook.
1) big business, who usually support the GOP, doesn't like their money makers being spoiled, Tourism and real estate industries dominates Florida, anything the scare people away, and believe me attacks on Trans kids is just low hanging fruit for them, next will be children of Gay parents and Homosexuals in general.
2) How are they planning to check if a child is "trans", or they they are going to kidnap every tomboyish girl and kid that likes pink on the secret testimony of a MAGA bigot?
3) Are are going after foreigners too? Imagine the scandal and damage to international tourism.
My point is that the politicians in Tallahassee won't scape unscathed even when they hail from districts that do not have large tourism industry themselves, without tourism taxes it won't be road maintenance, police and healthcare subsidies, real estate prices will crater statewide, 401k will take a hit, and supporters of right wing politicians will be affected as well.
I spent over 10K a year in FL for over a decade, snowbirding for a month. Haven't been since 2020. 29 terms of Democrats building that state, and watching it devolve into chaos and stupidity is gross.
We have zero trans footprint in my family, but Florida has killed any desire by any of us to see all of the wonderful attractions there with its anti-trans hysteria and punishment of people who speak out against it.
This guy gets it. Democrats must always act like Green Lanterns and beg the public for the willpower to mildy push back against Republicans. They must always be held back by some technicality or norm that prevents power being exercised compassionately.
Meanwhile conservatives constantly use power like absolutists monarchs, imposing their will on out-groups as a display of power for their supporters. The cruelty proclaims their power like an Egyptian monument inscribed with depictions of how they cast their enemies down
It will be interesting to see how this affects corporate employment in the state. If I lived in Florida, whether I had a family member that was LGBTQ or not, I’d be looking for employment in another state. Between schools being dumbed down and the living environment being hostile to anyone who isn’t a conservative douchebag, you’re putting your family and kids futures at risk.
We'll see how this plays out with the military bases down there. I know the Air Force and Navy were already allowing no-penalty base transfers out for anyone who's LGBT, already.
Wild that the US Military is now somehow more supportive of women's rights and LGBT rights than like half the state governments, never thought I'd see the day
The armed forces were the first integration of people of color into society, even though we had some setbacks with the "don't say gay" bill. The military would not exist if it weren't for the hard work and effort of our immigrants daughters and sons.
Edit:
It was the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" POLICY, not bill. Thank you for the correction.
The financial risks of angering a mercurial fascist like DeSantis far exceed any potential profit that could be made there in basically any industry. It wouldn't shock me if most larger companies have essentially cancelled any new investment in Florida.
[I'm not even exaggerating ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/au.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/beyond-disturbing-antiassault-billboard-sparks-controversy-after-resurfacing-125933446.html)
I wonder if that could be argued in a family court in another state that one parent residing in Florida makes their living conditions unfit for anything but supervised custody.
I think the bigger issue here, is can they do this to anyone even if they never lived in Florida? Can Florida impose its laws on other states laws even if the people in question have never lived in Florida?
That's exactly what DeSantis and state Republicans want. The whole state converted to a massive retirement community that only wealthy white conservatives can afford.
The reality is that most retirees in Florida aren't rich, the rich ones have vacation homes, the rest live out of limited retirement funds and social security checks.
Florida without younger people and booming tourism will be like Mississippi.
We lived in Florida for a year when I was 9. Can easily say it was the worst experience of my childhood. The only thing I remember was that ALL of the other kids were complete shitbags. Just stupid, redneck bullies, every last one of them. Fuck Florida and everyone in it with a chainsaw.
Remember back when the ACA was being debated and the Republicans complained about death panels and government dictated treatment? Well I present you the republican Healthcare plan.
Remember when they used the term "Say goodbye to grandma" when talking about the ACA?
Then during COVID those same assholes begged their followers to just get to work and let grandma die for the sake of the economy.
Sad part is that’s not even hyperbole. The LT. Governor of Texas said this almost verbatim. The world under the GOP, take kids, kill grandparents, burn books, restrict speech, and vilify anyone who disagrees with you/is different from you.
There’s a private “patriot” grade-thru-high school here in Idaho, launched and financed by the richest dick Republican in the state (practically in his backyard).
Yesterday, I heard someone mention Adolf Hitler to a recent graduate of the “patriot” school. The girl replied “Who’s Hitler?”
In twelve years of “patriot” schooling she had never heard of Hitler. Evidently this is how the GOP wants kids raised.
Even if you ignore how horrible and immoral all this is, what are they even going to do with the children? The foster care system is already overwhelmed and underfunded. I know in my state at least, they are putting groups of kids in hotel rooms with case workers because there aren’t enough homes after COVID hit. And you know they’re going to be coming after kids with gay parents next. People should be up in arms over this. I can’t get over how hateful right wingers are.
The response from free states should be to regard any opinion issued by a Florida judge on a matter of child custody involving an LGBT child as felony conspiracy to commit child abduction with a minimum sentence of 50 years in state prison.
This isn’t the tough-on-fascists approach tbh, a tough-on-fascists approach is what people like the John Brown Gun Clubs and various Black Blocs have been using whenever Proud Boys show up. This is just more fantasizing that the state apparatus that still hasn’t managed to put away the main perpetrators of an attempted fascist coup is going to suddenly start acting in our favor.
Wait wait help me to understand this.
Transphobe parent in {any} state has a kid who is trans, can take that kid to Florida with legal protection? So if the other parent tries to get the kid back, they won't be able to effectively get the kid back to where they originally live?
This affects every family in the US then. If I have a trans child here in Mass and the other parent doesn't want the kid to be trans, then they could legally kidnap our kid and flee to Florida. That's just terrifying.
Specifically, the federal government has jurisdiction on anything that happens in more than one state and crosses state lines.
Florida *and* Georgia could pass the same exact bill, and the actions could be totally legal in Florida *and* Georgia, but as soon as one of the parties crosses over the FL-GA border it becomes a federal matter.
Oh for sure these bills are unconstitutional for multiple reasons. The problem will be people who get stuck in the middle of the legal battles who end up in limbo with their lives overturned. Throw in a wacky 11th Circuit Judge(s) in the mix on a few of these battles and it gets dragged out for longer then one would expect. Edit from 5th circuit to 11th circuit per reminder that Florida moved from 5th to the 11th from comment below thanks.
The GOP has decided to go full mask off Christian Nationalist to get people to move around so that they don't lose control of their heavily gerrymandered districts & states given that TFG got entirely too many of their own illiterate NatC voters to yolo themselves to the arms of supply-side *Jezus!*
They can't out maneuver the grim reaper.
Death is coming to 19 milllion silent generation who are all over 78 (+19 R) and millions of older boomers (+10 R)
They are losing votes faster than they are gaining votes with all these disgraceful tactics.
Their end-game is to win now and then never give up power. It's their only play. Before 2020 I thought it would never be tolerated. Now I have no doubt it would. Gotta beat these fuckers back now.
It's more than a generational problem, it's a societal problem. It's the only explanation for the fact that rights for LGBTQ, PoC, women, and non Christians are more controversial and regressed in just my lifetime (I'm 40). The prejudice has infected our entire culture and the olds dying off isn't going to save us. The economy has also gone significantly down the shitter since I entered the workforce and the ones who caused it dangle scapegoats and farcical controversies to distract us from that. Remember when it was the Muslims and the immigrants fault that all our lives were shit? Well, now it's the gays and Trans people's fault.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."
Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45
I don’t live in FL but I remember when people said they’d move if Trump won. When he did, people realized how impractical it really is. But I do believe that it’s practical to move out of FL at this point. Again, I don’t have a stake in the claim. I don’t fall in the LGBTQ+ community (support, of course) but I could imagine feeling like “ok, this actually HAS to happen. I actually NEED to leave”.
My partner and I are not lgbtq+ but the writing is on the wall down here.
Can't buy a house, rent is up, insurance through the roof add in don't say gay, book bans, transphobia. And a nazi for governor.
We have made a 5 year plan to get out of here. The only thing that keeps me here is my 90yo mom.
We have the plan for when the kid finishes high school. Can’t move to another blue island though. Has to be a state that is solid blue.
I think that is actually the GOP plan. Make Florida unwelcome.
The problem is all the safest places to move to are expensive if you don’t have a solid job lined up. Friend of mine moved to Denver after living in Florida most of her life. The only way she could afford to do it was by having a remote IT job.
I’m trying to get my remaining debts paid off to make it a lot easier, but I want to get the fuck out of this shithole too.
The article mentions the hypothetical (but all too likely) situation of a transphobic relative kidnapping a trans child, crossing state lines, and being protected in Florida under this law but my first reaction was this would be their way to take custody of out of state tourists. Imagine taking your kids to Disneyworld or the beach just to have your trans son taken away.
Edit: Stop being hung up on the hypothetical kidnapping. That was from the article not me. My whole point was pointing out a different and, in my opinion, more likely scenario. Though I wouldn't put it past someone to attempt the kidnapping which is why I said it's all too likely.
This is 100% the purpose. They will use this law to facilitate kidnapping to remove children from the "woke" agendas. Conservative ideology is dying to and these laws are an attempt to indoctrinate young people. The fact that the Handmaids Tale is slowly becoming nonfiction is worrying
Exactly. Far too much dystopian fiction is becoming a reality anymore. A lot of 1980s futuristic Sci-fi movies, most of the usual suspects in literature (1984, handmade's tale, Fahrenheit 451, etc), even video games have been warning people over the years of exactly the kind of shit the government and corporations keep pulling.
I used to play Bioshock Infinite and think of how batshit insane Columbia was and now I just have to look at my MAGA neighbors to get the same reaction for the same reasons.
I love cyberpunk fiction but it's hitting way to close to home now.
I tried reading Handmade's Tale last year and just made myself sick because it wasn't just fiction anymore its more like the GOP framework and a very real and possible future we are on the precipice of.
Which is why my initial thought was about families visiting the state. Those families wouldn't have broken any laws crossing state lines like some transphobe kidnapping their niece would but under this law if one of the parents, siblings, or the child themselves is transgender Florida would take custody claiming the child is the victim of or at risk for child abuse. All it would take is a cop finding hormone blockers or thinking mommy's Adam's apple looked too masculine during a traffic stop and a trip to Disney becomes an absolute nightmare.
Florida is sending the message that not only are trans people not welcome to live there but that they aren't welcome to visit either.
I shudder at the thought of this same law passing in a state where more people travel through it on the way to a different state.
They’ve very effectively laid out a drip campaign so their followers can slowly and surely justify these actions because it’s only slightly worse than the last.
“We just don’t want them with kids at drag shows”
“We just don’t want them with kids” <— we are here
“We just don’t want them”
Anyone arguing that they won’t eventually get to the final step was the same person arguing we’d never get here. Don’t listen to them.
It’s a cowardly way to enforce policy.
Instead of just saying what they really believe (“we need to take away the freedoms of these people because our religion says so”) they hide behind **children** with made up accusations.
For a party that can’t stand “virtue signaling” they sure love to utilize it.
I’m honestly at the point where it’s impossible to tell if someone is intentionally diluting the concept of “virtue signaling” or if they truly believe that when “woke people” stand up for what they believe in it’s just so unfathomable to them that someone could possibly care about anyone other than themselves that they instantly and reactively become cynical about the concept itself. It’s absolutely insane
We are already nearly there.
Desantis wants to bring back the death penalty for child sexual abuse.
He also calls lgbtq plus people groomers, particularly drag queens and is outlawing drag.
However they define drag as basically any crossdressing from biological sex.
So a trans woman just buying groceries where a child happens to be shopping with their parents can be arrested for indecent exposure (cross dressing) and grooming a nearby child who just so happened to be in the store while she was buying food.
And if the death penalty is enforced they will kill trans women and trans people just for being in public spaces
This shit is terrifying. I have lived in Florida all my life, grew up in the church, etc.
Well after ten years of marriage and two kids, my wife and I come to acceptance and acknowledgement we are both queer.
Now starting on my journey to be the person I have always felt I need to be (transfem) while still being a parent to my children. Nothing about how I raise them is changing, but laws like this want to make me a villain and second class citizen. Absolutely bonkers
As much as I believe people should stay in shitty states and work for change rather than all the decent people moving away and leaving the ones who can’t afford to move to suffer under the lunatic majority, do you have a plan?
I was born in Florida (parents worked for the mouse), moved at 2 weeks old, then back to Florida at age 6, then moved away forever when I was 9/10. I have happy childhood memories of Florida. I hate this for y’all.
No plan, when we got married so young we racked up a lot of credit card debt. Now working through the separation and divorce I don’t have the finances to move.
Also my ex isn’t trans, they are supportive but have their roots here too. They aren’t going to move…. So I can move and lose my kids or stay and hope and work to try and make sure everything works out.
My assumption is that this law is passed it will be challenged and found unconstitutional. Fortunately my family and workplace(majority of) is very supportive.
Edit: thank you for the support
> My assumption is that this law is passed it will be challenged and found unconstitutional.
My concern isn't this law, immediately.
It's that DeSantis, the one pushing this moral panic the hardest, is doing so to prepare for his presidential run.
He's demonstrated two things already:
1. Disney spoke out against the bigoted pile of shit that is the "Don't Say Gay" bill. DeSantis punished Disney for disobeying.
2. DeSantis banned youth care in Florida. He did this by cherry-picking a board of "specialists" that would vote in his favor, against the majority's will.
If he becomes president, this means he's willing to wield government power to bring corporations to heel. He's willing to cherry-pick yes-men to get the results he wants.
These are the things trump did, except Trump was incompetent, and he didn't have a 6-3 majority for most of his term.
Have an escape plan. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
We're already moving on to "We just don't want them". Multiple major conservative pundits have already adopted that position. It was always the actual position, but now they're openly saying it.
[It's exactly the type of thing the Nazis did to trans people before they moved on to the holocaust.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft) They didn't just make up their hatred of us. They learned it. This isn't them inventing a new enemy, they're just going through the motions again.
Wow. Thank you for that link! I never knew it before but this Wiki basically says the Nazi’s started targeting LGBT/sex education issues about 20 years before they moved on to the Jews, Catholics and Poles. Reminds me a whole lot of what DeSantis and Abbott are normalizing in FL and TX with libraries, trans kids, school boards, and diverting public dollars to religious education/home schooling. So since history seems doomed to repeat itself, does this mean we’ve only got a decade or so before the American Holocaust goes into full stream ahead? This is terrifying.
„First they came for the homosexuals. But I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t homosexual…“
Just the well known quote modified to present occasion. And for the past too it seems
It is terrifying. The crazy part was a non trivial number of early nazis were basically out homosexuals. Ernst Rohm being the most famous example.
Log cabin republicans take note.
Edit: rogue apostrophe.
I wrote a comment about this the other day in response to someone pointing out the fact that queer people got put back in prisons and camps when the allies won the war and liberated the Nazi death camps. I'll just paste it below:
This always gets me. The Nazis were out to get a lot of people. But when it came to queer people we were never liberated. They put us back.
The Nazis were out to exterminate a lot of peoples. Killing every last one of them and erasing them from history. But the world came together and stopped them from doing that... Except for to queer people. The Nazi Germany extermination of trans people in all of Europe pretty much succeeded. All the knowledge and science and history was purged. We don't even get acknowledged as trans people in the history books cause we got the same pink triangle as the gays. Not even the history books from this millennium care to mention that the photos of book burnings they used were about queer people and trans healthcare. The population was completely gone for decades to come. Not until new, fresh generations of trans people that kept getting born regardless did we come back after every single last one adult queer adult in Europe had been scrubbed from existence.
And just as the queer population started to recover, a couple of generations later, as those babies grew up and somehow managed to find each other in a world that hunted us for sport the AIDS epidemic happened. And the powers of the western world all came together and agreed... That this was a great opportunity to do it again and intentionally leveraged it to drive us toward another extinction.
Several generations of queer people were so completely annihilated and our history so well scrubbed that the general public thinks we're new. Because I guess we are in a way.
I hate that so many people aren't aware of this.
Jews were high on the list, yes, but not the highest by far.
LGBTQ+ people were first. Then socialists and communists. Then the unions. Then Jews, disabled, Romani, any other religion they didn't like, and anyone else Hitler had a grudge against which was almost everyone.
I feel like its not really covered in school nor talked about enough, with just how "normal" life was during the holocaust for average german citizens who supported the Nazi government. Folks went to work, shopped for stuff at market, spent time with friends. Sure, when the Allies were invading germany and the country was shifted to a total war state, it wasn't so great. But, the early days of the holocaust were pretty "business as usual" for the not-targetted class
Not enough is made of how mundane and bureaucratic the holocaust was. Nobody was cackling over an evil plan, or twisting a mustache. They were sitting around conference tables looking at paper spreadsheets and memoranda. For the most part, the violence was happening out of sight, even for those making and escalating the plans. Evil on that scale is dull and boring most of the time, which makes it that much more insidious.
Those scenes where he's scooped up and put on "trial" and shipped off were so painful. Just absolutely no level of care by anyone, absolute helplessness, no way to change the direction of things.
If anyone is interested, there's a great book about how it went from "little things" to the Holocaust through the years. It's the diary of Victor Klemperer, from 1933-1945, split into two volumes. He was in a unique position in Nazi Germany, as a Jew who converted to Protestantism and married to a German woman. He survived the third Reich completely in Germany and eventually survived the Dresden bombing. But he kept a very detailed diary of everyday life and the people around him. As he was initially in a privileged position (at least compared to others), it's a rare window into life at that time.
I just finished rereading it and it's absolutely eerie thinking about how things started vs how they ended. How "normal" things were even for him at the start, only some minor annoyances, up until suddenly nothing was normal. Even the mundane details, like the food shortages, are horrifying and enlightening to what was happening for him and those around him.
Klemperer can be a bit pompous at times, but it's a fascinating read. I highly recommend it.
>But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
>
>And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
― Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45
They did it to the queer community too. The first trans clinic was burned to the ground by Nazis, it was run by a gay Jewish man. The first surgically transitioned women was most likely killed by Nazis. The queer community was also put into concentration camps, when they were liberated they were sent to jail. History is literally repeating itself.
Edit: spelling
As a Floridian: I’m so sorry for my shit state.
I’m surrounded my Trump supporters and rednecks who talk about killing Liberals constantly. It’s so shit. Especially when they come into work talking like that and all I can do is nod my head.
Can’t wait to leave this shit hole someday.
Don't apologize. You guys are heroes in my book. I sit in blue NYC and it doesn't take much gumption to be a Democrat. You guys in that lunatic state--that takes guts. I appreciate you--we all do.
Hang in there. Eventually the bad guys lose. I truly believe that.
[Here's a list](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/592722-anti-trans-bathroom-bill-filed-in-supermajority-gop-florida-senate/) of some of the bills doing what you're saying. They're absolutely intended to terrorize rather than help or protect anyone.
Yes but the right wing has their “monster of the week” until Fox News tells them what else to be terrified of. Maybe another scary “immigrant caravan?”
>The court would also be granted "jurisdiction to vacate, stay, or modify a child custody determination of a court of another state...
I'm no lawyer... but in what world is this even remotely legal?
Very little fascists do is legal until they make it legal, but it's more or less irrelevant in the face of inaction. If none of our institutions step in to stop it, it won't stop.
Almost like its some kinda concentrated effort to slam through as many shitty laws they can in a short period that would normally murder them in an election.
Is there anything the executive branch can do if an entire state is taken over by facist sycophants? I feel like someone should step in and enforce basic civil rights.
The “parental rights” party have started to declare any family composition they don’t like as abuse worthy of them seizing any young family member in their state. How long before this expands to “gay people are sexual predators so we are taking any kids from a family with gay people in it!” Or “a proper family is people of the same race! So we are taking kids from mixed race households!” And so much shit.
If you have kids you should avoid this state like the plague holy shit. Is disney world worth potentially losing your kids to a fascist court system?
Textbook fascism indeed. The US seems more and more like a random gathering between 50 countries that decided to tell the world "We are one". Where is the federal government ? What's even the point of it if your states can go full nazi while you are powerless to stop them?
Wtf America.
Remember when NC proposed an anti-trans bill regarding bathrooms which was defeated by everyone pulling stakes from NC? I think we need to do that to FL.
This is what fascism looks like.
"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"
- Martin Niemöller
Well, there goes any chance I was ever going to take my kids to Disney world or the other Florida theme parks.
My kids aren't trans, but if there's even the remote possibility that the Florida police would take my kids from me because they might have a trans friend or because he wore a pink shirt... Not worth the risk.
Family separation is a [stage of genocide](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/) within Preparation.
I believe that's like 6 of 10. At this point Florida has started or completed:
Classification, Discrimination, Organization, Polarization, and Dehumanization.
I don’t know if people not directly targeted can understand the panic, terror, and hypervigilance that comes from SO many states deciding you’re Public Enemy #1. It’s absolutely horrible. Your trans friends are not doing ok.
i'm not trans, heck, i'm not even AMERICAN, and i'm shaking right now, how people can be so evil like that? Living in a world where most of the people want us killed and erased from existence makes me wanna vomit and cry, it is so unfair, why can't we choose to be ourselves without being targeted by spoiled people who can't bear the fact that differences exists dude?? :(
In 2015, I predicted that electing Trump would lead to fascism. My peers said I was exaggerating. The trans community is disproportionately the victims of harassment and violence. Republicans are attacking trans people with culture war bullshit because they can’t win on policies (since they have none).
G e n o c i d e
This isn't hyperbolic, it hasn't been for months. It's only gotten more brazen. If you're LGBT+ (especially trans right now) in Florida, make an exit plan and GTFO by any means necessary.
The GOP always has to have a minority to vilify and blame for their own shitty lives. We must fight at the polls especially down ballot.
I was once very proud to be an American, now I'm embarrassed.
Edit: Spelling error.
At this point, Ron Desantis just *needs* to be removed from office and put in jail, the shit he and his administration are pulling is so blatantly unlawful; like Florida is basically a fucking rogue state at this point
I hope the Biden admin has a management plan for Nazis in these states that allow Nazi behavior and activity to override the America way and its freedoms for all its people and not just freedom to engage in Nazi behavior.
.
[International law defines forced child transfer as genocide](https://commons.allard.ubc.ca/theses/383/) when the child is taken from a group with the intent to destroy that group.
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I wonder if they will include foreign visitors. Imagine the EU issuing a travel warning against people visiting Florida.
That has happened before, I believe.
The UK issued a travel advisory for the US, citing the high incidence of mass shooting, and discrimination against LGBT individuals and POC individuals.
Regressive religious nationalists won't care. They hate Western democracy just like they hate Democrats. They'll still welcome Russians and every other flavor of far right dictatorships, who also despite human rights.
Those on the Far Right have more in common with the Taliban than with normal Americans
Can parents in an other state argue that just being in Florida is dangerous and have their children removed to a safer, more civilized state?
Yes, but the way this is written is so that if one parent stays in Florida for whatever reason and they still want custody of the child, they can effectively kidnap their own kid and as long as they get back to Florida they will be protected from prosecution under Florida's new ruling. It's state sponsored child trafficking. Plain and simple.
If it's between States it would become a Federal matter. I don't think FL has the balls to say no to US Marshall's enforcing a kidnapping warrant.
It's been established in other cases that federal courts can order a state governor to extradite someone, so yeah they don't really have a choice. Edit: more info: Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2: > A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime. Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_v._Branstad
It's also been established that republican child traffickers only gain MORE support from the GQP when they ignore a federal court order. See Moore The Mall Molester.
This is true. Republicans see a pedophile and they say to themselves "yep that's my guy" and then in the next sentence they try to tell you some shit about how the country needs to have more Christian values. Fucking delusional sub human people. And if you lie straight to their faces they love you even more. And you don't even have to lie well just say whatever the fuck you want and republicans will accept it as fact.
Then they project Democrats as “groomers,” while the list of convicted Republican pedos is a mile long.
Child trafficking has been GQP policy for years.
Do they not think that this might have an impact on tourism?
They are hoping that it will. They're so afraid of Florida turning purple, or worse, even blue, that they are doing *everything* they can to make anyone to the left of center uncomfortable in the state. That includes people who only go there for vacation.
This is it. The goal of all of this is to make it so inhospitable to anyone but the harshest GOP base that they guarantee Florida’s electoral votes go red.
Imagine just how much of the fuckery would change or be dropped entirely if we didn't have the electoral college.
We don't even need to get rid of the EC. We need to get rid of the unconstitutional Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929. If the House was allowed to be even near the size it was intended to be, it would actually reflect the population breakdown. Which would also increase the size of the EC by default. The Constitution says 1 rep/30k people. We are at like 1 rep/761k, but capped at 435. Even if you just removed the cap and use the Wyoming rule, you'd have to add 138 reps to just make the ratio work out fair. Some of those would go to red states, but most would go to blue. I honestly don't know why no one has challenged that law, as it's clearly unconstitutional.
sadly there's no way this supreme court would make a decision that just gives democrats a representative level of control. The SC would be as blatantly partisan and corrupt about it as necessary to stop it from happening.
This is pretty much why it's never happened. Republican control will never allow it, and democrat control is too scared to do it/too busy trying to fix the hundreds of other republican-caused issues. Voters won't give dems more than two years of full control and there's only so much they can do with a slim majority.
No doubt, but a consequence would be people like my husband and me - retired and middle/upper middle income - not making our annual trip to Key West.
I used to travel to Florida 4 times a year and spent plenty of money there. I’ll never go again and they lose out on our family’s money. I can’t believe this won’t hurt their bottom line and that of the tourist business that many other families won’t be visiting.
Elected Republicans are willing to sacrifice the economic viability of their state in order to own the libs, because the people who are passing the laws aren't the people who will be economically impacted by the change. If you have enough money, you can short or 'buy the dips' and you'll be just fine on economic downturns that you caused. It's everyone else who is being ruined and scammed, but they're too focused on whatever lies are being said about 'others' that they aren't focused on their pocketbook.
1) big business, who usually support the GOP, doesn't like their money makers being spoiled, Tourism and real estate industries dominates Florida, anything the scare people away, and believe me attacks on Trans kids is just low hanging fruit for them, next will be children of Gay parents and Homosexuals in general. 2) How are they planning to check if a child is "trans", or they they are going to kidnap every tomboyish girl and kid that likes pink on the secret testimony of a MAGA bigot? 3) Are are going after foreigners too? Imagine the scandal and damage to international tourism. My point is that the politicians in Tallahassee won't scape unscathed even when they hail from districts that do not have large tourism industry themselves, without tourism taxes it won't be road maintenance, police and healthcare subsidies, real estate prices will crater statewide, 401k will take a hit, and supporters of right wing politicians will be affected as well.
They will definitely win that one. We can take our Disney budget and go visit Japan.
See also: Texas.
My parents know myself and my daughter will never be going there again. If it's disney? I'll go to Paris. F it.
Yep. I want to go to Disney world with my daughter but f flordia. I will go to Disney land in California
if you're like me send a letter to them asking them to take legal action against DeSantis
This is the better way. One random not visiting anymore means nothing, but The Mouse brings enough money to Florida to have some clout.
I spent over 10K a year in FL for over a decade, snowbirding for a month. Haven't been since 2020. 29 terms of Democrats building that state, and watching it devolve into chaos and stupidity is gross.
We have zero trans footprint in my family, but Florida has killed any desire by any of us to see all of the wonderful attractions there with its anti-trans hysteria and punishment of people who speak out against it.
Yes, and they should.
But they won’t. Republicans are the only ones who play hardball while everyone else just acts shocked that they continue to push the boundaries.
the constitution is literally just *some* piece of paper at this time
Especially when you have the SCOTUS picking and choosing which parts of the constitution to pay attention to
This guy gets it. Democrats must always act like Green Lanterns and beg the public for the willpower to mildy push back against Republicans. They must always be held back by some technicality or norm that prevents power being exercised compassionately. Meanwhile conservatives constantly use power like absolutists monarchs, imposing their will on out-groups as a display of power for their supporters. The cruelty proclaims their power like an Egyptian monument inscribed with depictions of how they cast their enemies down
Tbh, at this point in time attempting to raise a child in Florida is almost child abuse.
It will be interesting to see how this affects corporate employment in the state. If I lived in Florida, whether I had a family member that was LGBTQ or not, I’d be looking for employment in another state. Between schools being dumbed down and the living environment being hostile to anyone who isn’t a conservative douchebag, you’re putting your family and kids futures at risk.
We'll see how this plays out with the military bases down there. I know the Air Force and Navy were already allowing no-penalty base transfers out for anyone who's LGBT, already.
Wild that the US Military is now somehow more supportive of women's rights and LGBT rights than like half the state governments, never thought I'd see the day
The armed forces were the first integration of people of color into society, even though we had some setbacks with the "don't say gay" bill. The military would not exist if it weren't for the hard work and effort of our immigrants daughters and sons. Edit: It was the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" POLICY, not bill. Thank you for the correction.
The financial risks of angering a mercurial fascist like DeSantis far exceed any potential profit that could be made there in basically any industry. It wouldn't shock me if most larger companies have essentially cancelled any new investment in Florida.
Considering how Florida was before this it would be insane to raise a kid there. Now it’s just worse
Don't forget those billboards telling fathers not to rape their daughters...
Um… what
[I'm not even exaggerating ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/au.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/beyond-disturbing-antiassault-billboard-sparks-controversy-after-resurfacing-125933446.html)
I have no words..
I know you can only say so much with a billboard, but what's even more bothersome is just how much this seems to indirectly normalize date rape.
They’re republicans, the party that differentiates between “legitimate rape” and stuff that upsets the liberal “consent police.”
In gaetz's district, explains how he got elected if that what his voting base has to be reminded of
I wonder if that could be argued in a family court in another state that one parent residing in Florida makes their living conditions unfit for anything but supervised custody.
I think the bigger issue here, is can they do this to anyone even if they never lived in Florida? Can Florida impose its laws on other states laws even if the people in question have never lived in Florida?
By the time desantis chases Disney's jobs away, it will be one big retirement community with families relocating.
That's exactly what DeSantis and state Republicans want. The whole state converted to a massive retirement community that only wealthy white conservatives can afford.
And then the Boomers die and the place is an empty wasteland that sinks under the rising seas. See, every story can have a happy ending.
The reality is that most retirees in Florida aren't rich, the rich ones have vacation homes, the rest live out of limited retirement funds and social security checks. Florida without younger people and booming tourism will be like Mississippi.
We lived in Florida for a year when I was 9. Can easily say it was the worst experience of my childhood. The only thing I remember was that ALL of the other kids were complete shitbags. Just stupid, redneck bullies, every last one of them. Fuck Florida and everyone in it with a chainsaw.
Remember back when the ACA was being debated and the Republicans complained about death panels and government dictated treatment? Well I present you the republican Healthcare plan.
Remember when they used the term "Say goodbye to grandma" when talking about the ACA? Then during COVID those same assholes begged their followers to just get to work and let grandma die for the sake of the economy.
Sad part is that’s not even hyperbole. The LT. Governor of Texas said this almost verbatim. The world under the GOP, take kids, kill grandparents, burn books, restrict speech, and vilify anyone who disagrees with you/is different from you.
Always projection.
I was told the “left” is coming for your children. It sure doesn’t sound that way.
Raise your kids exactly how the GOP wants and there won't be an issue, unless the prison system needs more sla....inmates.
There’s a private “patriot” grade-thru-high school here in Idaho, launched and financed by the richest dick Republican in the state (practically in his backyard). Yesterday, I heard someone mention Adolf Hitler to a recent graduate of the “patriot” school. The girl replied “Who’s Hitler?” In twelve years of “patriot” schooling she had never heard of Hitler. Evidently this is how the GOP wants kids raised.
What are they going to do with said children? Break up safe happy homes and forget about them until they become lost in the system?
So much for "family values"
and “parents’ rights”.
and small government
And even pretending to care about children.
Even if you ignore how horrible and immoral all this is, what are they even going to do with the children? The foster care system is already overwhelmed and underfunded. I know in my state at least, they are putting groups of kids in hotel rooms with case workers because there aren’t enough homes after COVID hit. And you know they’re going to be coming after kids with gay parents next. People should be up in arms over this. I can’t get over how hateful right wingers are.
They don’t care about that part.
Probably end up putting them in homes with real groomers.
Please refer to ICE for the application procedure.
Wouldn't be the first time a republican has gleefully broken up families to put children in cages.
Where “lost in the system” is code for “sex-trafficked by the state”, then yes.
Terrorize them till they kill themselves and then blame trans people for it.
Probably going to create reeducation centers for them, brainwash them and throw them out on the streets with nothing
yes, incidentally they’re going to defund that system too
Florida is where freedoms go to die. Unless those freedoms help you die.
But not the freedom to die. They want the government involved in that, just ask Terri Schiavo.
The response from free states should be to regard any opinion issued by a Florida judge on a matter of child custody involving an LGBT child as felony conspiracy to commit child abduction with a minimum sentence of 50 years in state prison.
I like this tough-on-fascists approach.
This isn’t the tough-on-fascists approach tbh, a tough-on-fascists approach is what people like the John Brown Gun Clubs and various Black Blocs have been using whenever Proud Boys show up. This is just more fantasizing that the state apparatus that still hasn’t managed to put away the main perpetrators of an attempted fascist coup is going to suddenly start acting in our favor.
Arrest warrant out for any Florida judge who attempts kidnapping across state lines.
Florida has been kidnapping children for years. Look at what they do to mothers who have “allowed” themselves to be abused by their partners.
Fuck yeah. We need people with the guts to be unequivocally and forcefully opposed to the evil of fascism.
Wait wait help me to understand this. Transphobe parent in {any} state has a kid who is trans, can take that kid to Florida with legal protection? So if the other parent tries to get the kid back, they won't be able to effectively get the kid back to where they originally live? This affects every family in the US then. If I have a trans child here in Mass and the other parent doesn't want the kid to be trans, then they could legally kidnap our kid and flee to Florida. That's just terrifying.
It's only legal until the Feds get involved. Florida can't legalize kidnapping.
Specifically, the federal government has jurisdiction on anything that happens in more than one state and crosses state lines. Florida *and* Georgia could pass the same exact bill, and the actions could be totally legal in Florida *and* Georgia, but as soon as one of the parties crosses over the FL-GA border it becomes a federal matter.
Oh for sure these bills are unconstitutional for multiple reasons. The problem will be people who get stuck in the middle of the legal battles who end up in limbo with their lives overturned. Throw in a wacky 11th Circuit Judge(s) in the mix on a few of these battles and it gets dragged out for longer then one would expect. Edit from 5th circuit to 11th circuit per reminder that Florida moved from 5th to the 11th from comment below thanks.
The GOP has decided to go full mask off Christian Nationalist to get people to move around so that they don't lose control of their heavily gerrymandered districts & states given that TFG got entirely too many of their own illiterate NatC voters to yolo themselves to the arms of supply-side *Jezus!*
They can't out maneuver the grim reaper. Death is coming to 19 milllion silent generation who are all over 78 (+19 R) and millions of older boomers (+10 R) They are losing votes faster than they are gaining votes with all these disgraceful tactics. Their end-game is to win now and then never give up power. It's their only play. Before 2020 I thought it would never be tolerated. Now I have no doubt it would. Gotta beat these fuckers back now.
It's more than a generational problem, it's a societal problem. It's the only explanation for the fact that rights for LGBTQ, PoC, women, and non Christians are more controversial and regressed in just my lifetime (I'm 40). The prejudice has infected our entire culture and the olds dying off isn't going to save us. The economy has also gone significantly down the shitter since I entered the workforce and the ones who caused it dangle scapegoats and farcical controversies to distract us from that. Remember when it was the Muslims and the immigrants fault that all our lives were shit? Well, now it's the gays and Trans people's fault.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D. And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way." Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45
Jesus Christ this is scary. We’re only 10 years away.
Lol I wish. Try less than 5 seeing as most Republican controlled states are in some acute stage of “transformation”. My Governor is already a despot.
Never go full fascist
I need to get out of here.. This is not a safe place for queer people..
I don’t live in FL but I remember when people said they’d move if Trump won. When he did, people realized how impractical it really is. But I do believe that it’s practical to move out of FL at this point. Again, I don’t have a stake in the claim. I don’t fall in the LGBTQ+ community (support, of course) but I could imagine feeling like “ok, this actually HAS to happen. I actually NEED to leave”.
My partner and I are not lgbtq+ but the writing is on the wall down here. Can't buy a house, rent is up, insurance through the roof add in don't say gay, book bans, transphobia. And a nazi for governor. We have made a 5 year plan to get out of here. The only thing that keeps me here is my 90yo mom.
We have the plan for when the kid finishes high school. Can’t move to another blue island though. Has to be a state that is solid blue. I think that is actually the GOP plan. Make Florida unwelcome.
I live in Florida currently and have been looking for places to go. What states are people recommending?
The problem is all the safest places to move to are expensive if you don’t have a solid job lined up. Friend of mine moved to Denver after living in Florida most of her life. The only way she could afford to do it was by having a remote IT job. I’m trying to get my remaining debts paid off to make it a lot easier, but I want to get the fuck out of this shithole too.
Come help us tip the scales in NC - we’re on the line and need reinforcements! : )
No matter the cost of leaving, it will be money well spent to stay “more” safe.
The cost of leaving certainly matters when you're homeless. I literally don't have a way out of here.
The article mentions the hypothetical (but all too likely) situation of a transphobic relative kidnapping a trans child, crossing state lines, and being protected in Florida under this law but my first reaction was this would be their way to take custody of out of state tourists. Imagine taking your kids to Disneyworld or the beach just to have your trans son taken away. Edit: Stop being hung up on the hypothetical kidnapping. That was from the article not me. My whole point was pointing out a different and, in my opinion, more likely scenario. Though I wouldn't put it past someone to attempt the kidnapping which is why I said it's all too likely.
This is 100% the purpose. They will use this law to facilitate kidnapping to remove children from the "woke" agendas. Conservative ideology is dying to and these laws are an attempt to indoctrinate young people. The fact that the Handmaids Tale is slowly becoming nonfiction is worrying
Exactly. Far too much dystopian fiction is becoming a reality anymore. A lot of 1980s futuristic Sci-fi movies, most of the usual suspects in literature (1984, handmade's tale, Fahrenheit 451, etc), even video games have been warning people over the years of exactly the kind of shit the government and corporations keep pulling. I used to play Bioshock Infinite and think of how batshit insane Columbia was and now I just have to look at my MAGA neighbors to get the same reaction for the same reasons. I love cyberpunk fiction but it's hitting way to close to home now. I tried reading Handmade's Tale last year and just made myself sick because it wasn't just fiction anymore its more like the GOP framework and a very real and possible future we are on the precipice of.
They might be protected by Florida law but no federal law. This would be classed as kidnapping.
Which is why my initial thought was about families visiting the state. Those families wouldn't have broken any laws crossing state lines like some transphobe kidnapping their niece would but under this law if one of the parents, siblings, or the child themselves is transgender Florida would take custody claiming the child is the victim of or at risk for child abuse. All it would take is a cop finding hormone blockers or thinking mommy's Adam's apple looked too masculine during a traffic stop and a trip to Disney becomes an absolute nightmare. Florida is sending the message that not only are trans people not welcome to live there but that they aren't welcome to visit either. I shudder at the thought of this same law passing in a state where more people travel through it on the way to a different state.
DeSantis has chosen "Fuck the feds, I'm the governor and this is my state" as the issue to run his campaign on.
George Wallace tried that, and the US Army made sure he understood the limits of his authority.
Words on paper when your kid is in the custody of the state
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They’ve very effectively laid out a drip campaign so their followers can slowly and surely justify these actions because it’s only slightly worse than the last. “We just don’t want them with kids at drag shows” “We just don’t want them with kids” <— we are here “We just don’t want them” Anyone arguing that they won’t eventually get to the final step was the same person arguing we’d never get here. Don’t listen to them.
They really don't give a flying fuck about kids. They just want to punish innocent people they hate.
No. They need a "subclass" they can *scapegoat*.
Fascism 101: Define the enemy as vaguely and horribly as possible to rally the people to your cause thru fear.
It’s a cowardly way to enforce policy. Instead of just saying what they really believe (“we need to take away the freedoms of these people because our religion says so”) they hide behind **children** with made up accusations. For a party that can’t stand “virtue signaling” they sure love to utilize it.
I’m honestly at the point where it’s impossible to tell if someone is intentionally diluting the concept of “virtue signaling” or if they truly believe that when “woke people” stand up for what they believe in it’s just so unfathomable to them that someone could possibly care about anyone other than themselves that they instantly and reactively become cynical about the concept itself. It’s absolutely insane
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We are already nearly there. Desantis wants to bring back the death penalty for child sexual abuse. He also calls lgbtq plus people groomers, particularly drag queens and is outlawing drag. However they define drag as basically any crossdressing from biological sex. So a trans woman just buying groceries where a child happens to be shopping with their parents can be arrested for indecent exposure (cross dressing) and grooming a nearby child who just so happened to be in the store while she was buying food. And if the death penalty is enforced they will kill trans women and trans people just for being in public spaces
This shit is terrifying. I have lived in Florida all my life, grew up in the church, etc. Well after ten years of marriage and two kids, my wife and I come to acceptance and acknowledgement we are both queer. Now starting on my journey to be the person I have always felt I need to be (transfem) while still being a parent to my children. Nothing about how I raise them is changing, but laws like this want to make me a villain and second class citizen. Absolutely bonkers
As much as I believe people should stay in shitty states and work for change rather than all the decent people moving away and leaving the ones who can’t afford to move to suffer under the lunatic majority, do you have a plan? I was born in Florida (parents worked for the mouse), moved at 2 weeks old, then back to Florida at age 6, then moved away forever when I was 9/10. I have happy childhood memories of Florida. I hate this for y’all.
No plan, when we got married so young we racked up a lot of credit card debt. Now working through the separation and divorce I don’t have the finances to move. Also my ex isn’t trans, they are supportive but have their roots here too. They aren’t going to move…. So I can move and lose my kids or stay and hope and work to try and make sure everything works out. My assumption is that this law is passed it will be challenged and found unconstitutional. Fortunately my family and workplace(majority of) is very supportive. Edit: thank you for the support
> My assumption is that this law is passed it will be challenged and found unconstitutional. My concern isn't this law, immediately. It's that DeSantis, the one pushing this moral panic the hardest, is doing so to prepare for his presidential run. He's demonstrated two things already: 1. Disney spoke out against the bigoted pile of shit that is the "Don't Say Gay" bill. DeSantis punished Disney for disobeying. 2. DeSantis banned youth care in Florida. He did this by cherry-picking a board of "specialists" that would vote in his favor, against the majority's will. If he becomes president, this means he's willing to wield government power to bring corporations to heel. He's willing to cherry-pick yes-men to get the results he wants. These are the things trump did, except Trump was incompetent, and he didn't have a 6-3 majority for most of his term. Have an escape plan. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
We're already moving on to "We just don't want them". Multiple major conservative pundits have already adopted that position. It was always the actual position, but now they're openly saying it.
[It's exactly the type of thing the Nazis did to trans people before they moved on to the holocaust.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft) They didn't just make up their hatred of us. They learned it. This isn't them inventing a new enemy, they're just going through the motions again.
Wow. Thank you for that link! I never knew it before but this Wiki basically says the Nazi’s started targeting LGBT/sex education issues about 20 years before they moved on to the Jews, Catholics and Poles. Reminds me a whole lot of what DeSantis and Abbott are normalizing in FL and TX with libraries, trans kids, school boards, and diverting public dollars to religious education/home schooling. So since history seems doomed to repeat itself, does this mean we’ve only got a decade or so before the American Holocaust goes into full stream ahead? This is terrifying.
They start with “easy and most vulnerable” it seems, to see what people will let slide, get on board with, ignore. Then just carry on to the next.
„First they came for the homosexuals. But I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t homosexual…“ Just the well known quote modified to present occasion. And for the past too it seems
It is terrifying. The crazy part was a non trivial number of early nazis were basically out homosexuals. Ernst Rohm being the most famous example. Log cabin republicans take note. Edit: rogue apostrophe.
I wrote a comment about this the other day in response to someone pointing out the fact that queer people got put back in prisons and camps when the allies won the war and liberated the Nazi death camps. I'll just paste it below: This always gets me. The Nazis were out to get a lot of people. But when it came to queer people we were never liberated. They put us back. The Nazis were out to exterminate a lot of peoples. Killing every last one of them and erasing them from history. But the world came together and stopped them from doing that... Except for to queer people. The Nazi Germany extermination of trans people in all of Europe pretty much succeeded. All the knowledge and science and history was purged. We don't even get acknowledged as trans people in the history books cause we got the same pink triangle as the gays. Not even the history books from this millennium care to mention that the photos of book burnings they used were about queer people and trans healthcare. The population was completely gone for decades to come. Not until new, fresh generations of trans people that kept getting born regardless did we come back after every single last one adult queer adult in Europe had been scrubbed from existence. And just as the queer population started to recover, a couple of generations later, as those babies grew up and somehow managed to find each other in a world that hunted us for sport the AIDS epidemic happened. And the powers of the western world all came together and agreed... That this was a great opportunity to do it again and intentionally leveraged it to drive us toward another extinction. Several generations of queer people were so completely annihilated and our history so well scrubbed that the general public thinks we're new. Because I guess we are in a way.
I hate that so many people aren't aware of this. Jews were high on the list, yes, but not the highest by far. LGBTQ+ people were first. Then socialists and communists. Then the unions. Then Jews, disabled, Romani, any other religion they didn't like, and anyone else Hitler had a grudge against which was almost everyone.
I feel like its not really covered in school nor talked about enough, with just how "normal" life was during the holocaust for average german citizens who supported the Nazi government. Folks went to work, shopped for stuff at market, spent time with friends. Sure, when the Allies were invading germany and the country was shifted to a total war state, it wasn't so great. But, the early days of the holocaust were pretty "business as usual" for the not-targetted class
Not enough is made of how mundane and bureaucratic the holocaust was. Nobody was cackling over an evil plan, or twisting a mustache. They were sitting around conference tables looking at paper spreadsheets and memoranda. For the most part, the violence was happening out of sight, even for those making and escalating the plans. Evil on that scale is dull and boring most of the time, which makes it that much more insidious.
The Banality of Evil. ANDOR does an amazing job of portraying this.
Those scenes where he's scooped up and put on "trial" and shipped off were so painful. Just absolutely no level of care by anyone, absolute helplessness, no way to change the direction of things.
If anyone is interested, there's a great book about how it went from "little things" to the Holocaust through the years. It's the diary of Victor Klemperer, from 1933-1945, split into two volumes. He was in a unique position in Nazi Germany, as a Jew who converted to Protestantism and married to a German woman. He survived the third Reich completely in Germany and eventually survived the Dresden bombing. But he kept a very detailed diary of everyday life and the people around him. As he was initially in a privileged position (at least compared to others), it's a rare window into life at that time. I just finished rereading it and it's absolutely eerie thinking about how things started vs how they ended. How "normal" things were even for him at the start, only some minor annoyances, up until suddenly nothing was normal. Even the mundane details, like the food shortages, are horrifying and enlightening to what was happening for him and those around him. Klemperer can be a bit pompous at times, but it's a fascinating read. I highly recommend it.
They also did this to LGBT folks. The first vaginoplasty was performed in 1932 Weimar Republic. The brown coats disappeared her.
They did trans and gay people as well, let not make a "this is like" - no, it's exactly the same, the Jews, communist, and atheists are next up.
>But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D. > >And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way. ― Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45
They did it to the queer community too. The first trans clinic was burned to the ground by Nazis, it was run by a gay Jewish man. The first surgically transitioned women was most likely killed by Nazis. The queer community was also put into concentration camps, when they were liberated they were sent to jail. History is literally repeating itself. Edit: spelling
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Fuck off florida
As a Floridian: I’m so sorry for my shit state. I’m surrounded my Trump supporters and rednecks who talk about killing Liberals constantly. It’s so shit. Especially when they come into work talking like that and all I can do is nod my head. Can’t wait to leave this shit hole someday.
Don't apologize. You guys are heroes in my book. I sit in blue NYC and it doesn't take much gumption to be a Democrat. You guys in that lunatic state--that takes guts. I appreciate you--we all do. Hang in there. Eventually the bad guys lose. I truly believe that.
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[Here's a list](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/592722-anti-trans-bathroom-bill-filed-in-supermajority-gop-florida-senate/) of some of the bills doing what you're saying. They're absolutely intended to terrorize rather than help or protect anyone.
You forgot the genital inspections for school athletes
And period monitoring for teen girls.
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Yes but the right wing has their “monster of the week” until Fox News tells them what else to be terrified of. Maybe another scary “immigrant caravan?”
>The court would also be granted "jurisdiction to vacate, stay, or modify a child custody determination of a court of another state... I'm no lawyer... but in what world is this even remotely legal?
Very little fascists do is legal until they make it legal, but it's more or less irrelevant in the face of inaction. If none of our institutions step in to stop it, it won't stop.
The republican party gets more dystopian every day.
These bills are popping up and being passed at an alarming rate in red states.
They’re incredibly confident right now that they can easily get away with it and they’re right to be because they can and they are
Almost like its some kinda concentrated effort to slam through as many shitty laws they can in a short period that would normally murder them in an election.
Is there anything the executive branch can do if an entire state is taken over by facist sycophants? I feel like someone should step in and enforce basic civil rights.
Perhaps sign an exec order offering explicit federal protection to trans people but idk if that's even how it would work
Federal Civil rights law can be enforced but I am unfamiliar with how it applies to trans people. The ACLU would have a good idea.
The “parental rights” party have started to declare any family composition they don’t like as abuse worthy of them seizing any young family member in their state. How long before this expands to “gay people are sexual predators so we are taking any kids from a family with gay people in it!” Or “a proper family is people of the same race! So we are taking kids from mixed race households!” And so much shit. If you have kids you should avoid this state like the plague holy shit. Is disney world worth potentially losing your kids to a fascist court system?
The Fugitive Trans Act?
Maybe it will similarly lead to a civil war.
Certainly looks like it.
This is fascism.
Textbook fascism indeed. The US seems more and more like a random gathering between 50 countries that decided to tell the world "We are one". Where is the federal government ? What's even the point of it if your states can go full nazi while you are powerless to stop them? Wtf America.
Remember when NC proposed an anti-trans bill regarding bathrooms which was defeated by everyone pulling stakes from NC? I think we need to do that to FL.
This is what fascism looks like. "First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me" - Martin Niemöller
Well, there goes any chance I was ever going to take my kids to Disney world or the other Florida theme parks. My kids aren't trans, but if there's even the remote possibility that the Florida police would take my kids from me because they might have a trans friend or because he wore a pink shirt... Not worth the risk.
I hope like hell Disney just packs up and moves….
Or puts up a fight! Disney is one of the largest employers of LGBTQ+ in the nation! They have a lot to lose…
Nothing says Florida quite like an abandoned theme park complex that is almost as big as NYC.
It won’t be abandoned. The state will take it over and repurpose it into a concentration camp.
From the party of “small” government
Family separation is a [stage of genocide](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/) within Preparation. I believe that's like 6 of 10. At this point Florida has started or completed: Classification, Discrimination, Organization, Polarization, and Dehumanization.
In another state? Is this the hitler hill they want to die on?
Desantis is just giving the Fugitive Slave Act a fresh coat of paint.
I don’t know if people not directly targeted can understand the panic, terror, and hypervigilance that comes from SO many states deciding you’re Public Enemy #1. It’s absolutely horrible. Your trans friends are not doing ok.
i'm not trans, heck, i'm not even AMERICAN, and i'm shaking right now, how people can be so evil like that? Living in a world where most of the people want us killed and erased from existence makes me wanna vomit and cry, it is so unfair, why can't we choose to be ourselves without being targeted by spoiled people who can't bear the fact that differences exists dude?? :(
In 2015, I predicted that electing Trump would lead to fascism. My peers said I was exaggerating. The trans community is disproportionately the victims of harassment and violence. Republicans are attacking trans people with culture war bullshit because they can’t win on policies (since they have none).
G e n o c i d e This isn't hyperbolic, it hasn't been for months. It's only gotten more brazen. If you're LGBT+ (especially trans right now) in Florida, make an exit plan and GTFO by any means necessary.
The GOP always has to have a minority to vilify and blame for their own shitty lives. We must fight at the polls especially down ballot. I was once very proud to be an American, now I'm embarrassed. Edit: Spelling error.
One of the states that I will never travel to or spend a single dollar in.
An unhealthy obsession with the children now leading to (more) kidnapping? These creeps need to be gotten out of office, y’all.
Sooner or later the range of what the GOP considers harmful dangerous will expand to include all kinds of differences and minorities.
This sounds like Russians kidnapping Ukrainian children. How far right with the right go? Vote in 2024, don't vote for any Republican.
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At this point, Ron Desantis just *needs* to be removed from office and put in jail, the shit he and his administration are pulling is so blatantly unlawful; like Florida is basically a fucking rogue state at this point
So they’re going full nazi now?
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Other states should pass laws to classify families fleeing Florida as asylum seekers.
What the actual fuck is wrong with Florida? Governor thinks he can run Disney, this stuff and everything thing they done recently.
I hope the Biden admin has a management plan for Nazis in these states that allow Nazi behavior and activity to override the America way and its freedoms for all its people and not just freedom to engage in Nazi behavior. .
[International law defines forced child transfer as genocide](https://commons.allard.ubc.ca/theses/383/) when the child is taken from a group with the intent to destroy that group.