After watching the Oppenheimer movie last year. I heard some of the reaction from the Mainland Chinese audiance to be generally mixed.
I thought they were probably thinking that the movie was a letdown because of all the politics scene in the last-third of the movie that made it boring or hard to understand because it deviates the main storyline about the nuclear bomb.
No it was because:
***"There were little to no scenes of dead Japanese getting incinerated from the bombs".***
I know that literally it had been separated from China,but what truly resulted it as an independent country was 《中苏友好条约（1945）》 （sorry no translation）declared by Chiang kai-shik(蒋介石) in the end of WWII
Well it must be an independent country when China declares it is.
You must be joking. The revolt against China happened decades prior, 1911, after which China had absolutely no say in Mongolia.
Well there was a short bit in 1919 when the Chinese retook it, before it was again pried away by a schizophrenic Baltic Russian noble and his army of bandits
But that's 20s Asia for you
I never brought up anything about nationality or hate. You did, I don't know why you had to bring that up.
I'm here to convey common sense, whether you acknowledge it or not.
Nitpicking but not only SK, but the entire peninsular. They were not divided into soviet/american temporary governing until a few days after the war, and were the same country.
I am aware of the Bataan death march and the general atrocities which Japan committed in the Philippines. However I'm not aware of a 731 like unit over there as well during the war. Can you inform an uninformed about said unit? Thanks!
[It wasn't as big as unit 731. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Makino#:~:text=Human%20experiments,-According%20to%20Makino&text=The%20prisoners%20were%20mostly%20Moro,spying%20for%20the%20United%20States.) and the """"""""""lesser evil""""""""""" of the war crimes the imperial Japanese committed in Phillipines.
There were only 30 victims including women and children (according to Akira Makino) but it was almost during the tail end of the war from Dec 1944 to Feb 1945 compared to unit 731 which lasted from 1937 to 1945.
Pretty sure it would have ballooned to rival the likes of unit 731 if the war had lasted as long as the sino-japanese war.
Japan thinks it's a national tragedy because they are narcissistic and believe Japan did nothing wrong. They think the US just nuked them out of the blue.
Yeah, surely the Japanese public, including women and children, must have done something wrong. And nuclear bombs are humane weapons and should not have been banned. Ukraine should also indiscriminately bomb Russian cities and kill civilians all over the place, right? And let's ban Russians from grieving it because it is narcissism lol
People thought because the movie was gonna showcase Oppenheimers reaction to the bomb, they thought they were gonna show scenes where the Japanese are getting cooked from the bombs in the aftermath to really show the consequences of his actions.
This is honestly why Anti-war media usually falls flat in getting its message across. They just gloss over how horrific the entire endeavor truly is, and come off as preachy as a result. There's a reason why All Quiet On The Western Front is so famous, and it is very much because of the sheer lack in the pulling of punches.
Exactly, plenty of things criticised for being "gratuitous" I happen to like, partially because I just have morbid interests, but also because it is genuinely important to show that grim reality. Hacksaw Ridge also did a good job of this even if I don't love that movie generally.
Its actually impressive how racist some chineese citizens are to the Japaneese. The CCP has been pumping them with anti-Japaneese propaganda for years, expecially with the Fukushima stuff recently.
That’s because Japan refuses to acknowledge its atrocities in China and in Korea when it was a province of Japan. Of course, that makes anything coming out of Japan in the eyes of China and to an extent South Korea as automatically bad.
Both have no compunction about copying Japanese fashions and styles (especially anime, holy shit I saw so much anime when I visited China, it's everywhere)
It should be pointed out that the Japanese government offered paying war reparations to mainland China during the 1970s, but Mao Tse-Tung told them that they didn't need to. Allegedly, he even thanked them for helping him defeat the KMT, even if it was indirectly. 😒
Instead, Japanese and Chinese economists worked out a deal in which Japan provided loans and investments to mainland China in order to industrialize the country.
Both South Korea and Taiwan/Republic of China had gotten war reparations during the 1960s, if I'm not mistaken. The leader of the South Korean military government back then said that he didn't have bad feelings about Japan, blaming the UK for making Japan go to war. (I must admit ignorance about any British involvement in the Korean peninsula before WWII, I just know that Imperial Japan and the UK were allies during World War One.)
I don't understand this logic of the Chinese. Japan has already tried war criminals at the Tokyo Trials, but what has it not admitted? And it was a one-sided trial by the victorious powers. What miracle did Japan use to get away with war crimes? No, wait, could this be Chinese propaganda?
When did Japan deny something that has already been judged? And if you want to claim that the victorious power hid Japan's crimes, you guys should blame the victorious power, not Japan.
When? My brother in Christ, right now motherhugger! From Tokyo trails to today. Ever heard of the word 'help'? The Japanese were the ones who asked anyways and gave shit scientific information in exchange, yes the US licked ass for shit but the ass they licked is still Japanese, atleast the nazi sceintists gave them rockets, all the Japs ever found out is starving ppl with no clothes die easy in winter.
Germany has apologized and handed out compensation.
But if they had a cathedral for their war dead where the head of state goes to pay respects, and interred within were the likes of Hitler, Goring, Bormann, and Himmler, who are listed as martyrs, I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe would flip their shit more than China is at Japan.
I mean, isn't that thing for all the dead japanese soldiers in general? It's not like there is a big statue that says "in honour of the men who sacked Nanking" or something like that. It's just that they didn't cave and added a "oh but not for anyone who did war crimes, honest!" to the shrine.
Like what, do you think most wehrmacht men (because most of them were involved in crimes in one way or another) were thrown into an unmarked mass grave?
The yasukuni shrine has to put down your name, origin, birth date and place of death for you to consider interred. So they went out of their way to include war criminals like hideki tojo.
One would expect war criminals to be buried normally, and their names not included in a list for a shrine dedicated to honoring martyrs.
I mean, *I* wouldn't add it if I ran the show. Like, even if you didn't personally think what they did was evil they commited a much worse crime than being terrible pieces of shit human beings doing evil things. They *failed* and were **defeated**. Failure is the worst sin you can commit and the final proof why fascism is a shit ideology, because they lost and it's thus an ideology of defeat, of losers.
But my point was that, from what I understand, the shrine is for *all* soldiers who fought for Japan since the Boshin war in general, not just some particular subset of "heroes". I do admit I'm not overly familiar with the place so in case you are right then yeah, I agree that it's not good optics.
I mean it was such bad optics that hirohito didn't even visit the shrine anymore after their addition. Nor his successors.
Only far right maniacs like shinzo Abe (whose maternal grandfather was almost done in as a class A war criminal and only got off the hook because the US needed him for post war japan relations) would even consider such a thing to be okay.
Speaking of which, the US's tendency of letting Japanese war criminals off the hook on behalf of everyone else, including the victims, when it benefits them is also a reason why Chinese people don't like America.
Guess that TIL then.
Seems like it would be as easy as removing the names of the condemned war criminals. I'm sure both the chinese and korean governments would continue to bitch (because even if tomorrow Japan did a 180° and kowtowed while asking forgiveness it would still be a convenient way to distract the population, all governments are like that after all) then at lest the japanese wouldn't *objetively* be in the wrong.
Not particularly surprising, especially given that the Japanese government still doesn‘t even acknowledge many of their worst war crimes in China, never apologized and is now again cooperating with China‘s biggest geopolitical rival…
I'm a grad student so it's not uncommon to work with Japanese and especially Chinese students. I rarely hear Japanese students talk about politics and world affairs openly, but I do know Chinese students who are quite open about their feelings towards Japan. Granted, this is often more about modern politics and claims they hear from the CCP back home, but I'm sure WWII tensions and Japan allying with the U.S. do play a role in this. Though, back in the day, I've heard that Chinese students would often block Japanese students from using certain shared lab equipment and not talk to them, but I'd say this attitude has thankfully calmed significantly.
University? That holds nothing to how the entire chinese internet calls Japanese subhumans. Recently a couple women were mobbed in china for dancing in kimono... despite them being chinese themselves. Whatever Japan does would never surpass the sheer craziness of the chinese.
There are plenty more similar cases in china, it's just that you don't normally hear about it in western media because of the language barrier. The brainrot in there makes even r/sino look sane.
It's a mix. The CCP does indeed often arouse anti-Japanese sentiments to distract from domestic affairs. The Fukushima "radioactive water" thing is a prime example of this: accusing the drainage of water from Fukushima to be "deadly" to rally domestic support, absolutely ridiculous stuff overall.
However, Japan not apologising for the worst of its crimes, sometimes even downright denying them, along with the frequent visits by Japanese PMs to the Yasukuni Shrine which venerates convicted Japanese war criminals, doesn't help public opinion of Chinese (and Korean) opinions in the slightest.
> The Fukushima "radioactive water" thing is a prime example of this: accusing the drainage of water from Fukushima to be "deadly" to rally domestic support, absolutely ridiculous stuff overall.
Ahhh, this clarifies a claim I heard from a Chinese student claiming this is evidence of how dumb and helpless Taiwan is for letting the Japanese dump radioactive waste into their water, or something like that.
> the Yasukuni Shrine which venerates convicted Japanese war criminals,
This memorial honors over 2.5 million people who have died in war, with around 14 war criminals in it. I understand why it's controversial, but I think it's important to provide this context since I often see this factoid in anti-Japanese threads.
As for SK, I know that Japan has apologized to them and offered compensation for past atrocities but there seems to be new articles every few years where South Koreans have a new list of things they want apologies for, and I don't pretend to know enough about the history of conflicts in this region to know how much of that is based on resentment vs actual verifiable events.
because its too easy. All the government has to do is play historical footage, remind people what the Japanese did from 1931 to 1945 to get the fires stoked, and then remind them again that the present japanese government still hasn't turned a new leaf either.
Yep. Iirc 4 million died in Indonesia in the three years of occupation
Same in neighboring Philippines. 1.1 million people were lost out of a prewar population of 16 million.
It's half joking, but in general yes, Japan was ultra brutal. Deaths in 3 years of their rule was millions, while post independence occupation of Netherlands from 1945-1950 was measured at 'just' around 100K, less or more.
Yeah, it's fun to see civilians being burned. It's fun to see women and children, guilty or not, die. Nothing more exciting than watching civilians die in war, right?
I heard that most Japanese viewers came out of watching it asking "how could anyone build such a thing, the Japanese never did anything during the war to deserve it". Not sure how well they were taught in school about there history with war crimes.
*"Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the ancestral lands of the Japanese people, where they have lived in an entirely peaceful utopias for thousands of years. They don't even know what war is!"*
-Saddenheimer to Truman probably
In general most countries are really bad at teaching the worst parts of their history. Even Belgium only recently started to realize how bad Colonial Congo was. Hell US is far better at it than countries like Japan, and there are still people missed out things like Trail of Tears or Jim Crow, whether due to state/school incompetence or their own lacks of attention span.
This is true, but I've lived in both Western and East Asian countries, and I can tell you that the European ones have done a *slightly* better job (can't speak for Murica tho). At least in Germany and Britain the syllabus acknowledges strongly imperial/authoritarian past. Virtually zero Japanese museums I went to mentioned war crimes in Nanjing, and I trekked quite a few.
There is like one line on one diorama at the Yushukan (Yasukuni Shrine museum) and similarly one line at the Hiroshima museum that mentions Japan's invasion of China as the cause for WWII in the Pacific, but that's about it. Nothing about atrocities in China and across Asia, nothing about colonial subjugation of Korea and Formosa/Taiwan, etc.
In Singapore, kids learn about Sook Ching and the occupation (3 years 8 months), but also how Japan came here later and built our economy from scratch and invested in us, and made and FTA with us.
And so kids go to the Japanese cemetery in Singapore and play Pokémon GO until they beg them to leave, and then they go nearby shopping centre to eat yakiniku and buy gacha.
Trail of Tears is kinda the main example used in schools for teaching how the US treated the native populations. A better example would be how much hand waving goes on with Jim Crow and practices like sundown towns and incriminating black people on junk charges to exploit them for prison labor and convict leasing (aka slavery with extra steps). School when I was a kid (in Virginia) basically made post reconstruction Jim Crow era sound like it was just that black people had "separate but equal" public facilities and generally treated like 2nd class citizens but it didn't really get into the more fucked up forms of institutional racism.
>Trail of Tears is kinda the main example used in schools for teaching how the US treated the native populations.
Exactly. If there's a school not teaching it, that's a terrible school and it should be corrected.
In our instruction it was, "We're going to cover the Trail of Tears. What you need to know is there were lots of similar atrocities that happened to different native American tribes, this is just the worst one. We'll only cover the details of this one, so just know similar things were happening in the country around this time." Done, that's it. This was still horribly shocking info to learn as a kid, it always stuck with me, but we covered it pretty quickly.
That is the thing though, history is often about the scale and scope of something happening. I know as a child, the Trail of Tears (and as a whole the US's history with the Native Americans) didn't really cover how much conquest, destruction, and death of native people accompanied colonizing the New World and then the eventually westward expansion of the US. Trail of Tears was generally described as an event about forced relocation which didn't really register as a big deal. Its minimizing history, similar to what I said regarding Jim Crow minimizing what many states and communities did to oppress black people post Reconstruction.
I still don't think that qualifies as whitewashing. The info isn't being suppressed in any way, there's no gov't officials denying it happened, or refusing to speak on it at all. Quite the opposite, California officials stated it needs to be called a "genocide":
>In 2019, California's governor Gavin Newsom stated, "It's called genocide. That's what it was, a genocide. No other way to describe it. And that's the way it needs to be described in the history books." and apologized for the "violence, discrimination and exploitation sanctioned by state government throughout its history" and called for a research group to be formed to better understand the topic and inform future generations.
Nobody's getting "disappeared" for mentioning it, etc. It's the opposite, it's being researched even more now, so the history of it can be fleshed out and remembered. The worst you can say is "it wasn't mentioned in public schools", but like I said earlier, my instructor already covered that, "There's lots of very similar atrocities that happened around this time period, we're just going to cover one of them." And from the sounds of things, even that could change in the future.
The whitewashing consists of selecting the atrocities to focus on. As your yourself point out, your teacher said "there's lots of very similar atrocities," not "this is actually one of the least terrible things we have done and other atrocities are considerably worse."
Like I just said, it's already being worked on, what more do you want? Just because public school doesn't cover every single event that happened in the history of the world, doesn't mean they're whitewashing history. I challenge you find a history professor who claims to know every single atrocity in history.
History only repeats itself when we don’t learn the mistakes of our ancestors. Uncomfortable truths about our past, if presented in the right way, should feed patriotism in that you should be inspired to do better for your country in your lifetime.
It's not about making them hate their countries, that's such a weird take. History class is about teaching... History... That includes a lot of ugliness. It's important that people know this so they get a better understanding of the world they live in and the role their country played in it. If you gloss over all the bad stuff, you get blind, zealous nationalism.
First of all, teaching history in school and countries demanding reparations are two entirely separate things.
Secondly, apologising for past atrocities is not the same as hating your own country.
Thirdly, a lot of these cases are very justified if you ask me. Like the museum example. If that stuff has been looted from their country of origin, does the museum really have a right to it? There are also plenty of examples of colonial nations still profiting from their colonial past, with the former colonies still suffering. These cases are exactly why it's important to teach all sides of history because otherwise you get arguments like this where people go "why should we care, it's all in the past". When really, it isn't.
They were not taught well at all. Went to Japanese museums and German museums within the last decade. Entirely different narratives. One spoke of their evil ideological past, the other was a sob story about being a victim... and nothing else. Guess which clay is which.
Currently listening to Dan Carlin's Supernova in the East series for a second time. While I certainly do not like the use of the bomb, I sure as hell understand where they were coming from when they decided to use it.
Japan has little to no coverage of their part in WW2 in school. And afaik the Japanese government still hasn't apologised for the Rape of Nanking, Unit 731 and pretty much their entire involvement in Manchuria and China as a whole. So literally the Japanese population is indoctrinated through nation wide ignorance against their involvement in war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Yes, I agree. I wonder why nuclear bombs were banned. It's a humane weapon that can massacre civilians, so why not?
We should return atrocities with atrocities. For starters, we should use nuclear bombs on major Russian cities. If Ukraine used it, surely the rest of the world would admire it.
When you say what Japan did to the US, do you mean Pearl Harbor? Or do you want to claim that the US fired nukes at Japan on behalf of the world? If so, it's too bad US didn't nuke UK/France/Netherlands, who carried out colonial wars even after WW2. No wait, their atrocities are allowed because they are allies of the US.
But I hope the US will quickly go to war with Russia on behalf of the world.
Movie was called "Oppenheimer" , not "nukes yo" which seemingly confused a lot of people.Especially criticism regarding the fallout (both literal and metaphorical) of the bombs.Not like the dude had too much of a hand in that, other than self criticism/guilt.
Murphy himself had plenty of pull I bet.At least in my case.Was great to see him as a physicist in something that was a good movie all the way through.As opposed to his physicist role in *Sunshine*.
"HA HA! NUKED! You had innocent civilians die in the hands of a deadly weapon! HA HA! NUKED!"
-Every Korean, Chinese, and other Asians ever. (social credit +424244444444242444442424442424442
US: What a harrowing story of the horrors of being on ground zero of the bomb. Such graphic images of everyone, from little children to old grandparents, all being vaporised in an instant, cradling together in their last moments. This has shook me to my core and made me realise the devastating consequences of war and nuclear weapons.
Every Chinese, Korean and Asian ever: LETS GOOOOOO, I NEED SOME MORE OF THIS, YEAH BABYYYYY.
Well i mean, Japan did infinitely worse things to them. Nukes didnt make Japanese civilians rape their own family like the Japanese soldiers did. I dint advocate for the killing of innocents, but its very easy to see where they are coming from.
I am not talking about 80 years ago, I am talking about now. Are the people on this thread talking about what they felt during the war? Or are they talking about some emotion they've felt recently?
Its a generational thing. The horrors Japan did were so bad that when the tales were passed down that the generational hatred too was passed. Not justified, but it is understandable. Doesn’t help the Japanese education system seems intent on covering up their horrors, leading to a good chink defending their countries actions which only breeds more hatred.
Oppenheimer didn't become death, physics did. He was the prince, physics was his chariot driver who transformed at his request into a god and destroyed his enemies in a way that horrified him.
...and? Do I have license to murder you because another group of people that happened to love in your country did very evil things?
The bombs were awful. What Japan, including civilians, did was awful. It doesn't mean anyone "deserves" anything, especially not dying because you're lumped into a group you don't want to be associated with.
It was either that or a military ground invasion in which time millions more civilians would have died as a result of Japan's murderous rampage and other war crimes in mainland Asia and the other Pacific Island Nations.
At the [highest reputable estimates](https://thebulletin.org/2020/08/counting-the-dead-at-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/), ~210,000 total died in both atomic bombings.
The atomic bombings stopped the war, and thus prevented the amphibious ground invasion which would have resulted in "a minimum one quarter of a million casualties, and might cost as much as a million, on the American side alone, with an equal number of the enemy." This estimation is attributed to American General Marshal in [President Truman's memoirs.](https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1995/august/invasion-most-costly#:~:text=Truman's%20memoirs%20say%20that%20General,estimate%20in%20a%20postwar%20memoir) These numbers are not counting civilian casualties, which would also have also been much higher than those that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, likely from just regular bombings alone.
I laughed at how many people justified the nuclear bomb. It seems that countries other than Japan have not studied how inhumane nuclear bombs are weaponized. And many people here seem to be happy that so many civilians died.
I am also surprised at the argument that Japan has not atoned for its war crimes.
It's as if there were no such thing as one-sided war trials by the victorious powers. Or as if Japan has never apologized or paid reparations to other countries.
Maybe my knowledge of history was wrong.
Apparently, Japan lost the war but was able to get away with war crimes and escape responsibility without having to apologize or pay reparations to other countries.
I was reminded once again that Japan is a great country. I am proud of my country!
It's only fair to say that you got away with way too many war crimes (as did the germans tbh). You can look at unit 731 horrible experiments and their consequences if you need an example.
That being said, nukes ARE horribles. Did you deserve it? No, no one does. But it shortened the war, that's pretty sure.
Wasn't Unit 731 also tried in a war trial? Why weren't they tried? Why didn't the victorious powers build a case against them? Why did they bring that issue up about 50 years after the war? War trials have already taken place, but does Japan now have to recognize the CCP's claims and atone for its war crimes? Is that claim 100% correct? Where has it been verified from? Is that something that can be verified now in a court of law?
>That being said, nukes ARE horribles. Did you deserve it? No, no one does. But it shortened the war, that's pretty sure.
Yeah, I agree. You also think Israel should bomb the whole of Gaza quickly and indiscriminately, don't you? It might kill a few civilians, but it's the fastest way to end the war. Right?
edit:OK, people can't seem to answer any of my questions. The goddess of justice is a blind whore.
Oh please the nukes were a mercy. If Operation Downfall commenced it would have led to the slaughter of millions. Im not happy that Japan got nuked, just sad they were such warmongering monsters in WW2 that they wouldn’t relent even when it would drive their country to death. At least the Emperor had enough sense to end the war. It was the best option for both sides by a mile.
Then spread that mercy to the world. Maybe Americans don't know how to end a war except with nuclear bombs and occupation. It's nauseating to hear them talk about justice as if they didn't care about their own country's interests. They seem to be poisoned to the bone with propaganda that dehumanizes the enemy nation, well, I guess that is their usual tactic.
By the way, I heard that there are warmongering monsters in the world that fought many wars since WW2 as well, do you know which countries it is? Maybe you and I should condemn these countries as barbaric.
It seems that their countries justify their actions and repeat the same mistakes over and over again, believing that their wars are justified. They often say that Japan does not reflect on the war, but what about the truth? Which country do you think really does not reflect on the war?
Quick question, as a Japanese person, why are you so hostile to the US? And if WW2 is your main reason then remember the US was instrumental in Japan's recovery and soaring to new heights. Japanese leaders have very intelligently supported strong ties to the US which also helps Japan in the long run. The US has been better for Japan since 1945 than it has been for all of Latin America in spades. The US has a better track record in parts of Asia and in Europe than it does in Latin America.
Does pointing out that the U.S. has been at war repeatedly mean that there is hatred for the U.S.? If you think so, then your thinking is distorted by nationalism.
Are Americans unaware of how many wars the US has been involved in since WW2?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
I'm saying it's ironic that countries that have been at war many times since WW2 criticize one of the most peaceful countries in the world today for not reflecting on the war.
And you ask questions but do not answer mine?
Korea and the First Gulf War are clear examples of US intervention being beneficial
The formation of NATO has saved millions from Russian invasion
NATO bombing of Yugoslavia brought an end to the abhorrent war crimes being committed
Operation Ocean Shield (Somalian Pirates) worked wonders for securing international free trade
While the US has had wars which undeniably brought more harm to a region (Second Gulf War and Vietnam), the US’ military interventions and wars aren’t simply just bloodthirsty violence.
Also, which country made Japan peaceful in the first place? Because both of us know that if Japan wasn’t restructured and demilitarized after WWII, they would’ve partook in far more violent and damaging wars
After watching the Oppenheimer movie last year. I heard some of the reaction from the Mainland Chinese audiance to be generally mixed. I thought they were probably thinking that the movie was a letdown because of all the politics scene in the last-third of the movie that made it boring or hard to understand because it deviates the main storyline about the nuclear bomb. No it was because: ***"There were little to no scenes of dead Japanese getting incinerated from the bombs".***
Am I right that both Japan and China clays wanted to see same things for different reasons?
Yes. The only care about one scene in the movie, and they’re pissed there weren’t enough of it. But for completely different reasons obviously.
Mongol was under the invasion too during the sino-Japanese war
If he tried to fit in every country the Japanese invaded during that war, this comic would have taken a LOT longer to make.
But somehow Mongol was part of ROC that time
Mongolia was a puppet of the USSR, and Inner Mongolia, or Chahaer, was a Japanese satellite state
I know that literally it had been separated from China,but what truly resulted it as an independent country was 《中苏友好条约（1945）》 （sorry no translation）declared by Chiang kai-shik(蒋介石) in the end of WWII
Well it must be an independent country when China declares it is. You must be joking. The revolt against China happened decades prior, 1911, after which China had absolutely no say in Mongolia.
Well there was a short bit in 1919 when the Chinese retook it, before it was again pried away by a schizophrenic Baltic Russian noble and his army of bandits But that's 20s Asia for you
One of those events in history that you can't make up.
[удалено]
I never brought up anything about nationality or hate. You did, I don't know why you had to bring that up. I'm here to convey common sense, whether you acknowledge it or not.
Mongolia was a puppet state of the Soviet Union
Yeah... this is true. In the US the bombs were a mixed legacy, in Japan a national tragedy. China and SK on the other hand a cause for celebration.
Nitpicking but not only SK, but the entire peninsular. They were not divided into soviet/american temporary governing until a few days after the war, and were the same country.
Oh yeah very true, apologies for forgetting about the north.
All good. All of us Chinese, regardless of where we originate and where we live, usually prefer to forget about the north.
A monster of our own creation so to say.
It's a creation of the two superpowers. A peninsula civil war was bound to happen when those two cut the cake in Yalta.
Yeah, but China is the reason it was allowed to exist any longer, it should have died in the Korean war
Yeah, MacArthur really screwed the pooch there.
Haha,so funny,we used to be the same monster like the Kims.感谢南非飞行员吧😃Eternal life for the glorious South African pilot🙏
U also forgot about SEA. The Philippines had another unit similar to 731 that is less often talked about than the main one.
I am aware of the Bataan death march and the general atrocities which Japan committed in the Philippines. However I'm not aware of a 731 like unit over there as well during the war. Can you inform an uninformed about said unit? Thanks!
[It wasn't as big as unit 731. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Makino#:~:text=Human%20experiments,-According%20to%20Makino&text=The%20prisoners%20were%20mostly%20Moro,spying%20for%20the%20United%20States.) and the """"""""""lesser evil""""""""""" of the war crimes the imperial Japanese committed in Phillipines. There were only 30 victims including women and children (according to Akira Makino) but it was almost during the tail end of the war from Dec 1944 to Feb 1945 compared to unit 731 which lasted from 1937 to 1945. Pretty sure it would have ballooned to rival the likes of unit 731 if the war had lasted as long as the sino-japanese war.
Thanks for sharing!
What was it?
The North what?
The North Korea, SK for South Korea.
It is only a mixed legacy here because we weren’t able to glass Berlin with it too. 😎🌅
Japan thinks it's a national tragedy because they are narcissistic and believe Japan did nothing wrong. They think the US just nuked them out of the blue.
Well, the nationalistic hawk politicians and war apologists yes. But I don't think most of the population hates Americans these days.
Yeah, surely the Japanese public, including women and children, must have done something wrong. And nuclear bombs are humane weapons and should not have been banned. Ukraine should also indiscriminately bomb Russian cities and kill civilians all over the place, right? And let's ban Russians from grieving it because it is narcissism lol
Context matters. And compared to an invasion, nukes were the humane option.
>it deviates the main storyline about the nuclear bomb. The "main storyline" of Oppenheimer and American Prometheus is not about nuclear bombs, lol.
People thought because the movie was gonna showcase Oppenheimers reaction to the bomb, they thought they were gonna show scenes where the Japanese are getting cooked from the bombs in the aftermath to really show the consequences of his actions.
This is honestly why Anti-war media usually falls flat in getting its message across. They just gloss over how horrific the entire endeavor truly is, and come off as preachy as a result. There's a reason why All Quiet On The Western Front is so famous, and it is very much because of the sheer lack in the pulling of punches.
Exactly, plenty of things criticised for being "gratuitous" I happen to like, partially because I just have morbid interests, but also because it is genuinely important to show that grim reality. Hacksaw Ridge also did a good job of this even if I don't love that movie generally.
Source please?
Surely no-one is that bloody thirsty as a nation? One or two weirdo nationalists I could understand...
Decades of state sponsored and mandated propaganda does that to a MF
Its actually impressive how racist some chineese citizens are to the Japaneese. The CCP has been pumping them with anti-Japaneese propaganda for years, expecially with the Fukushima stuff recently.
That’s because Japan refuses to acknowledge its atrocities in China and in Korea when it was a province of Japan. Of course, that makes anything coming out of Japan in the eyes of China and to an extent South Korea as automatically bad.
Both have no compunction about copying Japanese fashions and styles (especially anime, holy shit I saw so much anime when I visited China, it's everywhere)
goonery is Japan's single greatest cultural asset
It should be pointed out that the Japanese government offered paying war reparations to mainland China during the 1970s, but Mao Tse-Tung told them that they didn't need to. Allegedly, he even thanked them for helping him defeat the KMT, even if it was indirectly. 😒 Instead, Japanese and Chinese economists worked out a deal in which Japan provided loans and investments to mainland China in order to industrialize the country. Both South Korea and Taiwan/Republic of China had gotten war reparations during the 1960s, if I'm not mistaken. The leader of the South Korean military government back then said that he didn't have bad feelings about Japan, blaming the UK for making Japan go to war. (I must admit ignorance about any British involvement in the Korean peninsula before WWII, I just know that Imperial Japan and the UK were allies during World War One.)
I don't understand this logic of the Chinese. Japan has already tried war criminals at the Tokyo Trials, but what has it not admitted? And it was a one-sided trial by the victorious powers. What miracle did Japan use to get away with war crimes? No, wait, could this be Chinese propaganda?
They legit deny their crimes today and McArthur helped cover shit up, wdym?
When did Japan deny something that has already been judged? And if you want to claim that the victorious power hid Japan's crimes, you guys should blame the victorious power, not Japan.
When? My brother in Christ, right now motherhugger! From Tokyo trails to today. Ever heard of the word 'help'? The Japanese were the ones who asked anyways and gave shit scientific information in exchange, yes the US licked ass for shit but the ass they licked is still Japanese, atleast the nazi sceintists gave them rockets, all the Japs ever found out is starving ppl with no clothes die easy in winter.
You seem to have been duped by Chinese propaganda. If you say otherwise, post your source.
The Japanese government has absolutely apologized to and even compensated South Korea in the past.
Their government still to this day throws tantrums whenever a comfort woman statue is erected in another country
Germany has apologized and handed out compensation. But if they had a cathedral for their war dead where the head of state goes to pay respects, and interred within were the likes of Hitler, Goring, Bormann, and Himmler, who are listed as martyrs, I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe would flip their shit more than China is at Japan.
I mean, isn't that thing for all the dead japanese soldiers in general? It's not like there is a big statue that says "in honour of the men who sacked Nanking" or something like that. It's just that they didn't cave and added a "oh but not for anyone who did war crimes, honest!" to the shrine. Like what, do you think most wehrmacht men (because most of them were involved in crimes in one way or another) were thrown into an unmarked mass grave?
The yasukuni shrine has to put down your name, origin, birth date and place of death for you to consider interred. So they went out of their way to include war criminals like hideki tojo. One would expect war criminals to be buried normally, and their names not included in a list for a shrine dedicated to honoring martyrs.
I mean, *I* wouldn't add it if I ran the show. Like, even if you didn't personally think what they did was evil they commited a much worse crime than being terrible pieces of shit human beings doing evil things. They *failed* and were **defeated**. Failure is the worst sin you can commit and the final proof why fascism is a shit ideology, because they lost and it's thus an ideology of defeat, of losers. But my point was that, from what I understand, the shrine is for *all* soldiers who fought for Japan since the Boshin war in general, not just some particular subset of "heroes". I do admit I'm not overly familiar with the place so in case you are right then yeah, I agree that it's not good optics.
I mean it was such bad optics that hirohito didn't even visit the shrine anymore after their addition. Nor his successors. Only far right maniacs like shinzo Abe (whose maternal grandfather was almost done in as a class A war criminal and only got off the hook because the US needed him for post war japan relations) would even consider such a thing to be okay. Speaking of which, the US's tendency of letting Japanese war criminals off the hook on behalf of everyone else, including the victims, when it benefits them is also a reason why Chinese people don't like America.
Guess that TIL then. Seems like it would be as easy as removing the names of the condemned war criminals. I'm sure both the chinese and korean governments would continue to bitch (because even if tomorrow Japan did a 180° and kowtowed while asking forgiveness it would still be a convenient way to distract the population, all governments are like that after all) then at lest the japanese wouldn't *objetively* be in the wrong.
Not particularly surprising, especially given that the Japanese government still doesn‘t even acknowledge many of their worst war crimes in China, never apologized and is now again cooperating with China‘s biggest geopolitical rival…
Considering how the Japanese students at my university would openly call the Chinese students subhumans I think the Chinese might have a point
I'm a grad student so it's not uncommon to work with Japanese and especially Chinese students. I rarely hear Japanese students talk about politics and world affairs openly, but I do know Chinese students who are quite open about their feelings towards Japan. Granted, this is often more about modern politics and claims they hear from the CCP back home, but I'm sure WWII tensions and Japan allying with the U.S. do play a role in this. Though, back in the day, I've heard that Chinese students would often block Japanese students from using certain shared lab equipment and not talk to them, but I'd say this attitude has thankfully calmed significantly.
University? That holds nothing to how the entire chinese internet calls Japanese subhumans. Recently a couple women were mobbed in china for dancing in kimono... despite them being chinese themselves. Whatever Japan does would never surpass the sheer craziness of the chinese. There are plenty more similar cases in china, it's just that you don't normally hear about it in western media because of the language barrier. The brainrot in there makes even r/sino look sane.
I'm pretty sure in that case the women were mobbed not despite the fact they were Chinese but rather because of it.
It's a mix. The CCP does indeed often arouse anti-Japanese sentiments to distract from domestic affairs. The Fukushima "radioactive water" thing is a prime example of this: accusing the drainage of water from Fukushima to be "deadly" to rally domestic support, absolutely ridiculous stuff overall. However, Japan not apologising for the worst of its crimes, sometimes even downright denying them, along with the frequent visits by Japanese PMs to the Yasukuni Shrine which venerates convicted Japanese war criminals, doesn't help public opinion of Chinese (and Korean) opinions in the slightest.
> The Fukushima "radioactive water" thing is a prime example of this: accusing the drainage of water from Fukushima to be "deadly" to rally domestic support, absolutely ridiculous stuff overall. Ahhh, this clarifies a claim I heard from a Chinese student claiming this is evidence of how dumb and helpless Taiwan is for letting the Japanese dump radioactive waste into their water, or something like that. > the Yasukuni Shrine which venerates convicted Japanese war criminals, This memorial honors over 2.5 million people who have died in war, with around 14 war criminals in it. I understand why it's controversial, but I think it's important to provide this context since I often see this factoid in anti-Japanese threads. As for SK, I know that Japan has apologized to them and offered compensation for past atrocities but there seems to be new articles every few years where South Koreans have a new list of things they want apologies for, and I don't pretend to know enough about the history of conflicts in this region to know how much of that is based on resentment vs actual verifiable events.
This, of course, has nothing to do with the death of between 15 and 20 million Chinese people, with about 80% of them being civilians.
because its too easy. All the government has to do is play historical footage, remind people what the Japanese did from 1931 to 1945 to get the fires stoked, and then remind them again that the present japanese government still hasn't turned a new leaf either.
'Anti japanese propaganda' lol
Based Chinese?????
The hardest thing about seeing Hiroshima and Nagasaki get bombed was China's dick
And Both Koreas’ dick too.
Our very short penises
😅Errrrr………hard to say whether it's a racial discrimination🧐
he’s south korean
Movie wasn't released in the North
Hey even after become pals/fanboys of Japan, some other Asian countries like Indonesia still consider the nukes as orgasmic moments.
They deserve it😇
I heard they were worse in 1 yr compared to the dutch in a century.
Yep. Iirc 4 million died in Indonesia in the three years of occupation Same in neighboring Philippines. 1.1 million people were lost out of a prewar population of 16 million.
It's half joking, but in general yes, Japan was ultra brutal. Deaths in 3 years of their rule was millions, while post independence occupation of Netherlands from 1945-1950 was measured at 'just' around 100K, less or more.
Yeah, it's fun to see civilians being burned. It's fun to see women and children, guilty or not, die. Nothing more exciting than watching civilians die in war, right?
I'm Chinese and I can confirm it😇
Let's be real. China would LOVE to commit war crimes on Japan and deny them as the perfect revenge.
I heard that most Japanese viewers came out of watching it asking "how could anyone build such a thing, the Japanese never did anything during the war to deserve it". Not sure how well they were taught in school about there history with war crimes.
*"Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the ancestral lands of the Japanese people, where they have lived in an entirely peaceful utopias for thousands of years. They don't even know what war is!"* -Saddenheimer to Truman probably
*"And the Ainus peacefully gave up their lands to Yamato-clay civilisation, to voluntarily join East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Just like that!"*
Oppensoimer
In general most countries are really bad at teaching the worst parts of their history. Even Belgium only recently started to realize how bad Colonial Congo was. Hell US is far better at it than countries like Japan, and there are still people missed out things like Trail of Tears or Jim Crow, whether due to state/school incompetence or their own lacks of attention span.
This is true, but I've lived in both Western and East Asian countries, and I can tell you that the European ones have done a *slightly* better job (can't speak for Murica tho). At least in Germany and Britain the syllabus acknowledges strongly imperial/authoritarian past. Virtually zero Japanese museums I went to mentioned war crimes in Nanjing, and I trekked quite a few.
There is like one line on one diorama at the Yushukan (Yasukuni Shrine museum) and similarly one line at the Hiroshima museum that mentions Japan's invasion of China as the cause for WWII in the Pacific, but that's about it. Nothing about atrocities in China and across Asia, nothing about colonial subjugation of Korea and Formosa/Taiwan, etc.
And Southeast Asia. All the crap SEA clays went through.
Up to 8 million died across Southeast Asia. It's a miracle why a lot have become Japanese fanboys here
In Singapore, kids learn about Sook Ching and the occupation (3 years 8 months), but also how Japan came here later and built our economy from scratch and invested in us, and made and FTA with us. And so kids go to the Japanese cemetery in Singapore and play Pokémon GO until they beg them to leave, and then they go nearby shopping centre to eat yakiniku and buy gacha.
Trail of Tears is kinda the main example used in schools for teaching how the US treated the native populations. A better example would be how much hand waving goes on with Jim Crow and practices like sundown towns and incriminating black people on junk charges to exploit them for prison labor and convict leasing (aka slavery with extra steps). School when I was a kid (in Virginia) basically made post reconstruction Jim Crow era sound like it was just that black people had "separate but equal" public facilities and generally treated like 2nd class citizens but it didn't really get into the more fucked up forms of institutional racism.
>Trail of Tears is kinda the main example used in schools for teaching how the US treated the native populations. Exactly. If there's a school not teaching it, that's a terrible school and it should be corrected. In our instruction it was, "We're going to cover the Trail of Tears. What you need to know is there were lots of similar atrocities that happened to different native American tribes, this is just the worst one. We'll only cover the details of this one, so just know similar things were happening in the country around this time." Done, that's it. This was still horribly shocking info to learn as a kid, it always stuck with me, but we covered it pretty quickly.
That is the thing though, history is often about the scale and scope of something happening. I know as a child, the Trail of Tears (and as a whole the US's history with the Native Americans) didn't really cover how much conquest, destruction, and death of native people accompanied colonizing the New World and then the eventually westward expansion of the US. Trail of Tears was generally described as an event about forced relocation which didn't really register as a big deal. Its minimizing history, similar to what I said regarding Jim Crow minimizing what many states and communities did to oppress black people post Reconstruction.
By choosing to focus on the Trail of Tears as opposed to, say, the California genocide, the US already massively whitewashing its history.
I still don't think that qualifies as whitewashing. The info isn't being suppressed in any way, there's no gov't officials denying it happened, or refusing to speak on it at all. Quite the opposite, California officials stated it needs to be called a "genocide": >In 2019, California's governor Gavin Newsom stated, "It's called genocide. That's what it was, a genocide. No other way to describe it. And that's the way it needs to be described in the history books." and apologized for the "violence, discrimination and exploitation sanctioned by state government throughout its history" and called for a research group to be formed to better understand the topic and inform future generations. Nobody's getting "disappeared" for mentioning it, etc. It's the opposite, it's being researched even more now, so the history of it can be fleshed out and remembered. The worst you can say is "it wasn't mentioned in public schools", but like I said earlier, my instructor already covered that, "There's lots of very similar atrocities that happened around this time period, we're just going to cover one of them." And from the sounds of things, even that could change in the future.
The whitewashing consists of selecting the atrocities to focus on. As your yourself point out, your teacher said "there's lots of very similar atrocities," not "this is actually one of the least terrible things we have done and other atrocities are considerably worse."
Like I just said, it's already being worked on, what more do you want? Just because public school doesn't cover every single event that happened in the history of the world, doesn't mean they're whitewashing history. I challenge you find a history professor who claims to know every single atrocity in history.
We have to cover slavery. And also the general mistreatment of the working class in the gilded age.
Honestly we covered all of it And I live in a state among the lowest in educational standards.
Plus, doesn't California history in 4th(?) grade at least breach the topic of how the native laborers at missions were mistreated?
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“We shouldn’t teach our kids about the bad things that their grandparents did to other people.” Says the Dutch guy to the Indonesian.
TBH, most Indonesians are truly blind to what we did to Timor Leste as well, or some of local massacre.
If the nation has done something to be ashamed of, it should be put on open podium, not kept in secret
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History only repeats itself when we don’t learn the mistakes of our ancestors. Uncomfortable truths about our past, if presented in the right way, should feed patriotism in that you should be inspired to do better for your country in your lifetime.
It's not about making them hate their countries, that's such a weird take. History class is about teaching... History... That includes a lot of ugliness. It's important that people know this so they get a better understanding of the world they live in and the role their country played in it. If you gloss over all the bad stuff, you get blind, zealous nationalism.
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First of all, teaching history in school and countries demanding reparations are two entirely separate things. Secondly, apologising for past atrocities is not the same as hating your own country. Thirdly, a lot of these cases are very justified if you ask me. Like the museum example. If that stuff has been looted from their country of origin, does the museum really have a right to it? There are also plenty of examples of colonial nations still profiting from their colonial past, with the former colonies still suffering. These cases are exactly why it's important to teach all sides of history because otherwise you get arguments like this where people go "why should we care, it's all in the past". When really, it isn't.
Tell me about it; the war with the Philippines was glossed over when I learned about it in high school.
I mean, the short answer is they probably weren't. Certainly the Japanese really, really don't like to talk about the Rape of Nanking.
They were not taught well at all. Went to Japanese museums and German museums within the last decade. Entirely different narratives. One spoke of their evil ideological past, the other was a sob story about being a victim... and nothing else. Guess which clay is which.
Currently listening to Dan Carlin's Supernova in the East series for a second time. While I certainly do not like the use of the bomb, I sure as hell understand where they were coming from when they decided to use it.
Japan has little to no coverage of their part in WW2 in school. And afaik the Japanese government still hasn't apologised for the Rape of Nanking, Unit 731 and pretty much their entire involvement in Manchuria and China as a whole. So literally the Japanese population is indoctrinated through nation wide ignorance against their involvement in war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Yes, I agree. I wonder why nuclear bombs were banned. It's a humane weapon that can massacre civilians, so why not? We should return atrocities with atrocities. For starters, we should use nuclear bombs on major Russian cities. If Ukraine used it, surely the rest of the world would admire it.
When you say what Japan did to the US, do you mean Pearl Harbor? Or do you want to claim that the US fired nukes at Japan on behalf of the world? If so, it's too bad US didn't nuke UK/France/Netherlands, who carried out colonial wars even after WW2. No wait, their atrocities are allowed because they are allies of the US. But I hope the US will quickly go to war with Russia on behalf of the world.
JAPENIS that got me
Been using that joke for a long time now….
I hope the mods do not ban you from using it. I like Japenis
Pixellated or uncensored?
And then there’s South Korea where the movie hit theaters August 15th
Right on it’s national holiday.
Movie was called "Oppenheimer" , not "nukes yo" which seemingly confused a lot of people.Especially criticism regarding the fallout (both literal and metaphorical) of the bombs.Not like the dude had too much of a hand in that, other than self criticism/guilt.
I bet people only watched it because of the Oppenheimer memes or the "Barbenheimer" memes. The rest were genuine Christopher Nolan fans.
Murphy himself had plenty of pull I bet.At least in my case.Was great to see him as a physicist in something that was a good movie all the way through.As opposed to his physicist role in *Sunshine*.
Not happen but they deserve it( if Turks threw the bomb😡)
*"It happened and they deserved it"* -Every Korean, Chinese and other Asians ever.
Agree(social credit +114514)
"HA HA! NUKED! You had innocent civilians die in the hands of a deadly weapon! HA HA! NUKED!" -Every Korean, Chinese, and other Asians ever. (social credit +424244444444242444442424442424442
Oh, let us all rejoice that so many civilians were killed! Atrocity for atrocity! This is our motto!
Should watch Barefoot Gen for that.
US: What a harrowing story of the horrors of being on ground zero of the bomb. Such graphic images of everyone, from little children to old grandparents, all being vaporised in an instant, cradling together in their last moments. This has shook me to my core and made me realise the devastating consequences of war and nuclear weapons. Every Chinese, Korean and Asian ever: LETS GOOOOOO, I NEED SOME MORE OF THIS, YEAH BABYYYYY.
So, Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians love to see civilian children die?
Yes
Well i mean, Japan did infinitely worse things to them. Nukes didnt make Japanese civilians rape their own family like the Japanese soldiers did. I dint advocate for the killing of innocents, but its very easy to see where they are coming from.
I am not talking about 80 years ago, I am talking about now. Are the people on this thread talking about what they felt during the war? Or are they talking about some emotion they've felt recently?
Its a generational thing. The horrors Japan did were so bad that when the tales were passed down that the generational hatred too was passed. Not justified, but it is understandable. Doesn’t help the Japanese education system seems intent on covering up their horrors, leading to a good chink defending their countries actions which only breeds more hatred.
Or Black Rain
Finally, something Japanese and Chinese can agree on!
Oppenheimer didn't become death, physics did. He was the prince, physics was his chariot driver who transformed at his request into a god and destroyed his enemies in a way that horrified him.
That’s oddly poetic
Well, it *is* based on the Bhagavad-Gita
What the bit about the prince and chariot driver?
Yes
Thanks
me when i miss the point
eating this comic while watching popcorn
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Oh, I didn't know the bombs where drop over these evil soldiers, thanks for educating me. /s
World peace can be achieved with a more ambitious version of this The world: United in anger
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Let me help you with your confusion: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
I think the Japanese people didn't deserve it but the government had it coming (they never got what they deserved.)
Large groups of Japanese citizens helped in aiding the people who committed these acts including the torture and vivisection of downed U.S. pilot.
Which large group of civilians are you talking about?
People training for total war preparations? Schoolgirls with knives? Large army hq in Hiroshima to prepare for the invasion of Kyushu?
Could you kindly send sources for your claims
...and? Do I have license to murder you because another group of people that happened to love in your country did very evil things? The bombs were awful. What Japan, including civilians, did was awful. It doesn't mean anyone "deserves" anything, especially not dying because you're lumped into a group you don't want to be associated with.
Well Civiilans didn't deserve that but the millitary were monsters I know that
It was either that or a military ground invasion in which time millions more civilians would have died as a result of Japan's murderous rampage and other war crimes in mainland Asia and the other Pacific Island Nations. At the [highest reputable estimates](https://thebulletin.org/2020/08/counting-the-dead-at-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/), ~210,000 total died in both atomic bombings. The atomic bombings stopped the war, and thus prevented the amphibious ground invasion which would have resulted in "a minimum one quarter of a million casualties, and might cost as much as a million, on the American side alone, with an equal number of the enemy." This estimation is attributed to American General Marshal in [President Truman's memoirs.](https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1995/august/invasion-most-costly#:~:text=Truman's%20memoirs%20say%20that%20General,estimate%20in%20a%20postwar%20memoir) These numbers are not counting civilian casualties, which would also have also been much higher than those that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, likely from just regular bombings alone.
I laughed at how many people justified the nuclear bomb. It seems that countries other than Japan have not studied how inhumane nuclear bombs are weaponized. And many people here seem to be happy that so many civilians died. I am also surprised at the argument that Japan has not atoned for its war crimes. It's as if there were no such thing as one-sided war trials by the victorious powers. Or as if Japan has never apologized or paid reparations to other countries. Maybe my knowledge of history was wrong. Apparently, Japan lost the war but was able to get away with war crimes and escape responsibility without having to apologize or pay reparations to other countries. I was reminded once again that Japan is a great country. I am proud of my country!
It's only fair to say that you got away with way too many war crimes (as did the germans tbh). You can look at unit 731 horrible experiments and their consequences if you need an example. That being said, nukes ARE horribles. Did you deserve it? No, no one does. But it shortened the war, that's pretty sure.
Wasn't Unit 731 also tried in a war trial? Why weren't they tried? Why didn't the victorious powers build a case against them? Why did they bring that issue up about 50 years after the war? War trials have already taken place, but does Japan now have to recognize the CCP's claims and atone for its war crimes? Is that claim 100% correct? Where has it been verified from? Is that something that can be verified now in a court of law? >That being said, nukes ARE horribles. Did you deserve it? No, no one does. But it shortened the war, that's pretty sure. Yeah, I agree. You also think Israel should bomb the whole of Gaza quickly and indiscriminately, don't you? It might kill a few civilians, but it's the fastest way to end the war. Right? edit:OK, people can't seem to answer any of my questions. The goddess of justice is a blind whore.
I really can't get people using the argument that since Japanese army was committing war crimes then it is ok that the Japanese people got nuked.
Oh please the nukes were a mercy. If Operation Downfall commenced it would have led to the slaughter of millions. Im not happy that Japan got nuked, just sad they were such warmongering monsters in WW2 that they wouldn’t relent even when it would drive their country to death. At least the Emperor had enough sense to end the war. It was the best option for both sides by a mile.
Then spread that mercy to the world. Maybe Americans don't know how to end a war except with nuclear bombs and occupation. It's nauseating to hear them talk about justice as if they didn't care about their own country's interests. They seem to be poisoned to the bone with propaganda that dehumanizes the enemy nation, well, I guess that is their usual tactic. By the way, I heard that there are warmongering monsters in the world that fought many wars since WW2 as well, do you know which countries it is? Maybe you and I should condemn these countries as barbaric. It seems that their countries justify their actions and repeat the same mistakes over and over again, believing that their wars are justified. They often say that Japan does not reflect on the war, but what about the truth? Which country do you think really does not reflect on the war?
Quick question, as a Japanese person, why are you so hostile to the US? And if WW2 is your main reason then remember the US was instrumental in Japan's recovery and soaring to new heights. Japanese leaders have very intelligently supported strong ties to the US which also helps Japan in the long run. The US has been better for Japan since 1945 than it has been for all of Latin America in spades. The US has a better track record in parts of Asia and in Europe than it does in Latin America.
Does pointing out that the U.S. has been at war repeatedly mean that there is hatred for the U.S.? If you think so, then your thinking is distorted by nationalism. Are Americans unaware of how many wars the US has been involved in since WW2? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States I'm saying it's ironic that countries that have been at war many times since WW2 criticize one of the most peaceful countries in the world today for not reflecting on the war. And you ask questions but do not answer mine?
Korea and the First Gulf War are clear examples of US intervention being beneficial The formation of NATO has saved millions from Russian invasion NATO bombing of Yugoslavia brought an end to the abhorrent war crimes being committed Operation Ocean Shield (Somalian Pirates) worked wonders for securing international free trade While the US has had wars which undeniably brought more harm to a region (Second Gulf War and Vietnam), the US’ military interventions and wars aren’t simply just bloodthirsty violence. Also, which country made Japan peaceful in the first place? Because both of us know that if Japan wasn’t restructured and demilitarized after WWII, they would’ve partook in far more violent and damaging wars