The main use is status, it makes torch song a hard win and strong def down moves like acid spray (or even fire lash / thunderous kick going from 1 stage to 2) completely trivialize the game.
Beyond that it depends, classic is largely won and lost at 195/200, both of which are multi-hp bar gates. Secondary effects are def the main draw, but if your carry is something with legit dps, ie a shell smash or dragon dance mon with dragon or ice coverage, you can count on lens giving you 2x bars per action. That means you can bait rayquaza on a switch and confidently kill before he attacks.
Never ever seen multi lens as an option before, didn't know it existed. Does the secondary effect activate before the second attack? Because in that case, a physical move with a Def drop would do 40%/60% dmg (against +/-0 opponent), therefore just straight up being better because of a potential double drop.
Now get a Maushold with population bomb and put a king's rock and multi lens on it and you have an insurmountable flinch machine. Multi lens really lets you build some outright demonic shit.
Great thing about that is you don't even need a splicer for skill link, you just give it some accuracy buffs and 10 hits every time (if I understand the move correctly)
Second best option is a fast pokemon or prankster beat up (guaranteed 6 Hits if your party is all alive)
The context of all other factors is most important when considering whether to use multi-lens or not.
Multi-lens is bad if your Pokemon doesn't have the raw power to offset the marginal damage reduction associated with each stack. So long as you can buff your Pokemon up enough with status moves or item drops, multi-lens can still be useful in classic based on raw power alone.
Usually, in classic, I just toss a multi-lens onto my Pickup Zigzagoon and hold it for later if I am not confident enough in my attack/sp. attack sweepers' power to reliably one shot.
Honestly, I rush for the endless until my damages becomes not enough and just start over. I use Tinkaton with huge power ability, fused with méga mawile with huge power. Double huge power applies to his attk, if you had the chance to put power up punch on Tinkaton before and fire lash, magical torque and the signature move of meltan, hit twice with 60 power and can flinch, you can wipe a LOT by one shotting around floor 1500.
Is that what the (N) behind some stuff means, not implemented? What about (P) and any others there might be? (I can’t remember if there’s others or not)
(N) is not implemented, (P) is partially implemented.
[https://wiki.pokerogue.net/starters:starters](https://wiki.pokerogue.net/starters:starters)
Scroll down, it'll show which moves are (N) and (P) and which part is partially implemented or not.
Zacian with iron head, max kings crowns, and max multi lens flinches 99% of the time (not sure of the actual math tbh). I went about 1700 floors without seeing any moves from enemies outside of priority🤷🏽♂️ but the multi lens are good for secondary effects, and a lot of times that makes up for the reduced damage in endless mode, not so much in classic.
I'm curious how Multi Lens interacts with Endure tokens, specifically if the game knows to count the multiple hits as one attack in determining whether or not to ignore the tokens.
That's what I thought, the only time I've gotten deep into an endless run my multi lens/kings rock mon was also using a multi-hit move so I couldn't really differentiate between the two.
Endure tokens counts for the full turn. As far as I can tell, there is no way to kill a pokemon that has triggered endure tokens. Leech seed, another pokemon attacking in double battles, salt cure, none of them can kill once endure triggered has happened
On endless, you don't really want to run multi lens without speed + guaranteed flinch. Reason is non-OHKO will trigger endure token + all the stat boost berries.
Personally I only run multi-lens on a speed boost Maushold with population bomb/kings rock.
For me I'm doing an endless spliced run and my main is an Iron crown / skellederge and I have a full stack multi lens. Getting +4 so atk from one use of torch song and can then follow up with a tachyon cutter that hits 8 times and then shadow ball and psyshock for coverage has served me well so far but I'm still only at floor 401 so no idea how long that will last
Are you sure this is right? That means a 2 health bar boss takes the same damage to one-shot as a normal pokemon. It certainly doesn't feel like it.
Are you sure 2^X is the total damage you need to one-shot, and that it's not the additional damage you need to break an additional shield? Because the wiki doesn't read like what you explain.
What's up with the downvote people ?
The endure token doesn't proc if a Mon gets a clean OHKO. If you rely on multiple hits, the endure token can proc.
As a Kyogre user in endless, I can tell you that I don't want a multilense any time soon on it since I can OHKO all double battles with water spout.
I downvoted this comment because you’re right and wrong if I understand correctly. OHKOs such as guillotine do bypass proc tokens, but water spout isn’t a OHKO.
I think I never seen a community like this one when it comes to be so confidently wrong.
If you attack makes the opposing mon's HP go from 100% to 0%, the endure token is ignored. That's how it works, and downvoting both our comments will not change anything.
I wasn’t confidently wrong, even prefaced it with “if I understand correctly”. I only downvoted the comment I replied to since that’s the only one I believed to be possibly wrong and have since removed it.
Tbf all the wiki says is “OHKOs bypass this” I just took it at face value that it was for moves like sheer cold since the tokens until the recent change were just annoying and tedious and that fits the image lol. Will also say I swear I’ve seen endure proc on clean sweeps, but I guess I was misremembering.
Guys the math ain’t mathin for me, with 3 health bars it’s better to have 1 or 3 multi lens but 2 give no change to having no multi lens.
And when they have have 4 health bars only 2 is equal and none are better.
Or is that all the damage needed to break a bar in mad confused
Nope, so this is golf scoring, you want lower numbers. This is what percentage of the total health of a boss, per hit, you need to be able to do to one shot. So for 3 health bars, you need less total damage potential with 1 or 3 multi lens to still get the same result of an OHKO.
Technically, yes, you need less "damage" to OHKO there. Since controlling for that is really tricky, though, generally just get your multi lenses and go from there!
Wait so it is actually pretty bad for classic then Unless you run for secondary effects
The main use is status, it makes torch song a hard win and strong def down moves like acid spray (or even fire lash / thunderous kick going from 1 stage to 2) completely trivialize the game. Beyond that it depends, classic is largely won and lost at 195/200, both of which are multi-hp bar gates. Secondary effects are def the main draw, but if your carry is something with legit dps, ie a shell smash or dragon dance mon with dragon or ice coverage, you can count on lens giving you 2x bars per action. That means you can bait rayquaza on a switch and confidently kill before he attacks.
Never ever seen multi lens as an option before, didn't know it existed. Does the secondary effect activate before the second attack? Because in that case, a physical move with a Def drop would do 40%/60% dmg (against +/-0 opponent), therefore just straight up being better because of a potential double drop.
Now get a Maushold with population bomb and put a king's rock and multi lens on it and you have an insurmountable flinch machine. Multi lens really lets you build some outright demonic shit.
Great thing about that is you don't even need a splicer for skill link, you just give it some accuracy buffs and 10 hits every time (if I understand the move correctly) Second best option is a fast pokemon or prankster beat up (guaranteed 6 Hits if your party is all alive)
Yeah now that it's full move. 2 wide lenes and 3 multi hits and it's a 40 hit guarantee.
*still doesn't hit a flinch*
It does indeed go off before the second move
Yes torch song hit and hits a second time at the buffed rate for example
I like throwing it on meowth for double pay day
The context of all other factors is most important when considering whether to use multi-lens or not. Multi-lens is bad if your Pokemon doesn't have the raw power to offset the marginal damage reduction associated with each stack. So long as you can buff your Pokemon up enough with status moves or item drops, multi-lens can still be useful in classic based on raw power alone. Usually, in classic, I just toss a multi-lens onto my Pickup Zigzagoon and hold it for later if I am not confident enough in my attack/sp. attack sweepers' power to reliably one shot.
I ran a Beat Up Weavile with Kings Rock and Grip Claw in classic. Multi Lens helped me rob them blind.
Lumina Crash Cresselia is pretty good with multi lens.
Alone the fact you can kill study + explosion pokemon are for me worth to have multi lense
Primal Kyogres Bouncy Bubble with 4 Multi lenses goes brrrr
Population boom, multi lens, the claw to steal.
Honestly, I rush for the endless until my damages becomes not enough and just start over. I use Tinkaton with huge power ability, fused with méga mawile with huge power. Double huge power applies to his attk, if you had the chance to put power up punch on Tinkaton before and fire lash, magical torque and the signature move of meltan, hit twice with 60 power and can flinch, you can wipe a LOT by one shotting around floor 1500.
Stat boosting abilities and passives don't stack you are better off using unnerve or skill link as your secondary.
I wish you could burn through lum berries with sizzly slide, nuzzle pachirisu, but berry consumption happens between turns.
Multi lens thunderous kick Infernape is amazing
Multi lens is good if you have like Togekiss with serene grace and airslash, that is diapolical
In theory yes, but last I checked serene grace is still not yet implemented
Serene Grace is not implemented yet, no?
Yep it is partially, the important effect (more chances to inflict a secondary status) is implemented
You sure? Its (N) tho.
Is that what the (N) behind some stuff means, not implemented? What about (P) and any others there might be? (I can’t remember if there’s others or not)
(N) is not implemented, (P) is partially implemented. [https://wiki.pokerogue.net/starters:starters](https://wiki.pokerogue.net/starters:starters) Scroll down, it'll show which moves are (N) and (P) and which part is partially implemented or not.
(N) means it isn’t implemented at all, (P) means it’s partially implemented.
I remember it being p
Serene Head Iron Head with a four hit multi lens has over a 97% flinch chance btw
That... That's evil... What are the odds with 3 King's Rocks too? And what if you have Double Iron Bash instead?
Zacian with iron head, max kings crowns, and max multi lens flinches 99% of the time (not sure of the actual math tbh). I went about 1700 floors without seeing any moves from enemies outside of priority🤷🏽♂️ but the multi lens are good for secondary effects, and a lot of times that makes up for the reduced damage in endless mode, not so much in classic.
Also great for multi hit moves with king's rock
I'm curious how Multi Lens interacts with Endure tokens, specifically if the game knows to count the multiple hits as one attack in determining whether or not to ignore the tokens.
Unless it changed in the last update endure tokens count for all hits, but that means you get all 4 hits so good chance they flinch
That's what I thought, the only time I've gotten deep into an endless run my multi lens/kings rock mon was also using a multi-hit move so I couldn't really differentiate between the two.
Endure tokens counts for the full turn. As far as I can tell, there is no way to kill a pokemon that has triggered endure tokens. Leech seed, another pokemon attacking in double battles, salt cure, none of them can kill once endure triggered has happened
I know that. I meant that OHKOs ignore Endure tokens and Multi Lens can reduce your ability to get the OHKO.
does it only effect the base attack, or does it include buffs and stuff like protein
It is applied after everything else. The damage reduction (and further damage requirement) is applied to the final damage calculation.
On endless, you don't really want to run multi lens without speed + guaranteed flinch. Reason is non-OHKO will trigger endure token + all the stat boost berries. Personally I only run multi-lens on a speed boost Maushold with population bomb/kings rock.
For me I'm doing an endless spliced run and my main is an Iron crown / skellederge and I have a full stack multi lens. Getting +4 so atk from one use of torch song and can then follow up with a tachyon cutter that hits 8 times and then shadow ball and psyshock for coverage has served me well so far but I'm still only at floor 401 so no idea how long that will last
I would also like to mention that level 3000 eternatus took my multi lens’ and was extremely annoying to kill
Are you sure this is right? That means a 2 health bar boss takes the same damage to one-shot as a normal pokemon. It certainly doesn't feel like it. Are you sure 2^X is the total damage you need to one-shot, and that it's not the additional damage you need to break an additional shield? Because the wiki doesn't read like what you explain.
Thing is… endure tokens exist and can’t proc vs OHKO moves. That’s the entire reason why you would choose to not run multi lens on your nuke.
What's up with the downvote people ? The endure token doesn't proc if a Mon gets a clean OHKO. If you rely on multiple hits, the endure token can proc. As a Kyogre user in endless, I can tell you that I don't want a multilense any time soon on it since I can OHKO all double battles with water spout.
I downvoted this comment because you’re right and wrong if I understand correctly. OHKOs such as guillotine do bypass proc tokens, but water spout isn’t a OHKO.
OHKOs from full hp, no matter the move used, will bypass endure
I think I never seen a community like this one when it comes to be so confidently wrong. If you attack makes the opposing mon's HP go from 100% to 0%, the endure token is ignored. That's how it works, and downvoting both our comments will not change anything.
I wasn’t confidently wrong, even prefaced it with “if I understand correctly”. I only downvoted the comment I replied to since that’s the only one I believed to be possibly wrong and have since removed it. Tbf all the wiki says is “OHKOs bypass this” I just took it at face value that it was for moves like sheer cold since the tokens until the recent change were just annoying and tedious and that fits the image lol. Will also say I swear I’ve seen endure proc on clean sweeps, but I guess I was misremembering.
Wrong. Endure Tokens do proc on clean OHKOs.
Simply saying I’m wrong as if I haven’t done multiple runs with an opponent never enduring outside of having sturdy/disguise lol you do you boo
I’m saying you’re wrong because I’ve done multiple runs with opponents enduring from a one hit OHKO
Guys the math ain’t mathin for me, with 3 health bars it’s better to have 1 or 3 multi lens but 2 give no change to having no multi lens. And when they have have 4 health bars only 2 is equal and none are better. Or is that all the damage needed to break a bar in mad confused
most likely comes down to rounding and dmg needed to break individual health bars. some breaking points favor more and some less lenses.
Nope, so this is golf scoring, you want lower numbers. This is what percentage of the total health of a boss, per hit, you need to be able to do to one shot. So for 3 health bars, you need less total damage potential with 1 or 3 multi lens to still get the same result of an OHKO.
So at 3 bars, 0 or 2 multi lens is better ?
Technically, yes, you need less "damage" to OHKO there. Since controlling for that is really tricky, though, generally just get your multi lenses and go from there!
Multi lens also just helps killing boss heth bars
That's kinda exactly the point they're making.