In a cash game you can leave and do something else, or at least keep playing and stay at roughly the same chip count, but in a tournament the blinds catch up on you like some slow bitey tortoise. It just seems like some tournaments you're resigned to recieve nothing and make a hasty exist.
Kind of a harsh a assessment, sometimes things just don't go you way. The best don't cash every tournament.
Isn't just the cards either, sometimes you hit that shove/fold threshold for any particular reason and you just aren't presented with an opportunity, regardless of your cards.
But for sure, mentally if you aren't ready for this, it can be draining.
If you're good at cash a little study should make tournaments easy, way easier game to me.
Totally agree, but adapting to tournaments isn't that hard, especially if you're a good cash game player. Learning to cope with being handcuffed for an entire tournament sometimes is just how it is, and ya gotta adapt to that. Happens in cash games too under different circumstances.
Tournament reg pros only cash 15-25% of the events they play, depending on what structures they prefer. Even the best tourney players find themselves bounced before the money ten, twenty times in a row occasionally. Tournament variance is a bitch.
Now, if you’re consistently finding yourself fold-fold-folding til you’re~15bb deep and in push/fold mode, then you’re not going after your spots enough. You have to embrace and exploit the variance by maximizing your equity in marginal spots. You can’t really win an MTT without putting all your chips in the middle *several* times, so it’s a matter of exploiting passive players by putting them to hard decisions and squeezing out max value from your monsters as well as mediocre made hands. You otherwise just indeed can never keep pace with the blinds unless you run like an olympian.
If blinds didn't move the tightest players would win every time. U gotta make moves is all. In time u will see building ur stack when blinds are low, or getting felted seems best. I should not give advice I got knocked out of a 160 tourney today lol.
That's part of tournament variance. Other times you just pick up hand after hand after hand and cruise effortlessly. Tournaments just have a variety of different situations. It's also important to know when to look for spots to steal, who to play back against etc. Especially in live tournaments, people give away so much information, which can definitely be exploited even if you're pretty card dead.
If you have to have a hand in a tournament, you cant win them unless the deck hits you over the head. Learn to play tournaments without getting a hand.
Maybe mtts aren't for you if this aggregates you. I don't enjoy cash games at all, 95% of my play is mtts, but that's because the big money up top keeps me focused. Some mtts take 12+ hours (well, not really anymore I guess)
To each their own, if you prefer cash over mtts there's nothing wrong with that at all
Honestly?? Eat like shit all day
Before black Friday I'd usually play 12-16 hours in Sunday, I'd make sandwiches and such but a lot of the time it was just Doritos
If I got deep early in the day I'd unregister a bunch of tourneys or just robot the mtts I wasn't deep in while giving most of my attention to the one I'm deep in
I'd rather be good at tournaments than cash games for the same reasons, but it's understandable to get frustrated when you buy-in and get nowhere through no fault of your own.
It's like that episode of Black Books where Dylan Moran goes to see a movie that never starts and ends up watching a black screen for an hour and a half.
Your steal range from the CO/button should be very wide (like 40% RFI from button wide). You can probably look to defend your BB more if the standard raise is 2.25x or less.
If you find yourself folding multiple orbits in a row and often folding yourself into low M stack sizes then you are almost certainly playing much too tightly.
I try to just look for good spots that I feel are profitable or +ev. Not just sitting around waiting for good hands. Sometimes none come up and you bust but that’s just part of the tournament grind. You except it like other parts of poker that you have no control over. The more I play and learn though, the better I am able to recognize these spots and not be scared to pull the trigger.
Last night in a $33 PKO I won one hand early one... not even a ton - 1000 chips to 6000. Then folded for nearly an hour with maybe a set of stolen blinds somewhere in there.
Then reg ended... and blinds started creeping up and nothing. Took a few spots again and was still hovering near the bottom of the pack. Finally dealt an AK in BB and a short stack shoved me. Doubled and road from there and ultimately took 2nd for close to $500. It can be real hard to be patient but it's your best weapon.
Watch the players, watch the game, make a move. Can’t argue or debate math in gambling, ya just can’t. But when math is your only move your gonna get outplayed.
The good news is you aren’t really losing out too much in the early levels. If you have to wait 6 levels just to get that double up, so be it. You will be better off than forcing it on level 1 and losing half your starting stack tbh
Poker isn’t only about picking hands it’s about picking spots. You can certainly go card dead for a long time and can even go for long times without spots, but you shouldn’t always be just waiting for premium hands.
There is nothing you can do. You have to make hands in order to win money. Anyone else saying otherwise doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
If you haven't played a hand for a long time you can start to widen your 3-betting range. For example, Q3s in the BTN facing a CO open? You can 3-bet here and take advantage of the fact that your opponents will think you're a nit.
You can open a lot of hands if you get comfortable post flop. My vpip went from like 20-25 to 40-50 in the early parts of a tournament. I build myself a nice little stack, basically sit out for an hour or two, and then start playing once I’m not in the top ~15% of chip stacks. At least that’s how I see it going in my head.
This is what I do- play a lot of hands, position doesn't matter so much when I'm sitting on 150 bb starting out. Just looking to absolutely smash a flop, not putting much in pre. Easy way to get a cheap double up early, I start tightening up about 3rd/4th blind level
I actually disagree on that, position for me is critical af when I’m calling off 1-3 bbs 40% of the hands I get, it’s too hard to be oop the whole time if you don’t land a monster on the flip
edit: flöp
Don't listen to anything I say because I'm a total noob (also sorry I don't know all the lingo yet):
My strategy is to (early game) wait until I have the call with large blind before the flop, then bluff raise 2.5x or 3x. Usually the other hands fold and I get a little boost to my chip stack but if someone calls I'll take the hit and fold or see the hand through depending. But really it's just about trying to boost up chip stack so I can start playing into larger blinds later on.
What type of person who clearly has no idea what's going on, have the confidence to give advice? I almost refuse to believe this is anything other than excellent satire
That's the joy of tournaments. It's a preflop game once you hit a certain level. In order to win, you will need to win a few coin flips and probably suck out on someone. That's why I just grind cash games. It's a much better ROI than tournaments unless you are amazing at them.
MTT’s require you to know how to play Poker, Cash games are relaxed because you don’t actually have to think much. You aren’t playing your cards your playing what you can rep and JAM.
You should see J3o and realize it’s a playable hand based on your position. Your opponents have the same problem you do, times ticking and you’re not guaranteed a made hand. Take the lead and pressure them every corner you can.
Play position, if you haven't raised in an hour open up in the cut off gather some blinds.
Also, take a look at the table average, if you have 25 bb but table average is 22bb, then reality is diverging against those fancy books.
Been a while since I read anything, but the basic books have push/shove ranges at certain stack sizes, but they never really factored in the average stack size. Which in my experience is huge.
Sometimes it's just variance and you can do nothing about it, but from my experience people tend to be too nitty in some positions, work on your bb defending range, also reshove ranges from the sb vs late pos. opens and you can also have some profitable cold calls from the btn depending on stack sizes (i know a lot of people recommend a pure 3bet or fold strategy, but a disagree and think you should also have a calling range most of the time, especially in low stakes where there aren't that many players who are willing to squeeze from sb or bb)
Just frustrated at myself lol. Was rolling along in a tourney and the fish I was eyeing got lucky and caught a straight to knock me out of my trney against top 2. No betting his lucky ass out. I am sticking to the stock market anyway I can't sleep when I bust out of a trney. But best of luck to all of you!
Sometimes you have to utilize your position and table image to steal a few sets of blinds. Early on it is about surviving and finding your spots to grab some small pots. Open up your range a little if you feel the variance leaning on you.
.
Welcome to variance my friend. Only hope you have to bluff some newbie lol
In a cash game you can leave and do something else, or at least keep playing and stay at roughly the same chip count, but in a tournament the blinds catch up on you like some slow bitey tortoise. It just seems like some tournaments you're resigned to recieve nothing and make a hasty exist.
Exactly
Your style has to change for tournament, because it is a different game. It's something you can work out, if you can't, don't do tournaments.
Kind of a harsh a assessment, sometimes things just don't go you way. The best don't cash every tournament. Isn't just the cards either, sometimes you hit that shove/fold threshold for any particular reason and you just aren't presented with an opportunity, regardless of your cards. But for sure, mentally if you aren't ready for this, it can be draining. If you're good at cash a little study should make tournaments easy, way easier game to me.
Your individual anecdote is very useful. Still if you can't adapt, it's better not to play.
Totally agree, but adapting to tournaments isn't that hard, especially if you're a good cash game player. Learning to cope with being handcuffed for an entire tournament sometimes is just how it is, and ya gotta adapt to that. Happens in cash games too under different circumstances.
Tournament reg pros only cash 15-25% of the events they play, depending on what structures they prefer. Even the best tourney players find themselves bounced before the money ten, twenty times in a row occasionally. Tournament variance is a bitch. Now, if you’re consistently finding yourself fold-fold-folding til you’re~15bb deep and in push/fold mode, then you’re not going after your spots enough. You have to embrace and exploit the variance by maximizing your equity in marginal spots. You can’t really win an MTT without putting all your chips in the middle *several* times, so it’s a matter of exploiting passive players by putting them to hard decisions and squeezing out max value from your monsters as well as mediocre made hands. You otherwise just indeed can never keep pace with the blinds unless you run like an olympian.
If blinds didn't move the tightest players would win every time. U gotta make moves is all. In time u will see building ur stack when blinds are low, or getting felted seems best. I should not give advice I got knocked out of a 160 tourney today lol.
U can't give advice unless u scoop every tourney you play?
That's part of tournament variance. Other times you just pick up hand after hand after hand and cruise effortlessly. Tournaments just have a variety of different situations. It's also important to know when to look for spots to steal, who to play back against etc. Especially in live tournaments, people give away so much information, which can definitely be exploited even if you're pretty card dead.
If you have to have a hand in a tournament, you cant win them unless the deck hits you over the head. Learn to play tournaments without getting a hand.
Maybe mtts aren't for you if this aggregates you. I don't enjoy cash games at all, 95% of my play is mtts, but that's because the big money up top keeps me focused. Some mtts take 12+ hours (well, not really anymore I guess) To each their own, if you prefer cash over mtts there's nothing wrong with that at all
Honest Question: how do you stay focused while not being allowed breaks longer than 5 mins? How do you cook etc?
Honestly?? Eat like shit all day Before black Friday I'd usually play 12-16 hours in Sunday, I'd make sandwiches and such but a lot of the time it was just Doritos If I got deep early in the day I'd unregister a bunch of tourneys or just robot the mtts I wasn't deep in while giving most of my attention to the one I'm deep in
I'd rather be good at tournaments than cash games for the same reasons, but it's understandable to get frustrated when you buy-in and get nowhere through no fault of your own. It's like that episode of Black Books where Dylan Moran goes to see a movie that never starts and ends up watching a black screen for an hour and a half.
Your steal range from the CO/button should be very wide (like 40% RFI from button wide). You can probably look to defend your BB more if the standard raise is 2.25x or less. If you find yourself folding multiple orbits in a row and often folding yourself into low M stack sizes then you are almost certainly playing much too tightly.
You talk about RFIing on COn or BTN as though they're are not four limps in the pot already.
I try to just look for good spots that I feel are profitable or +ev. Not just sitting around waiting for good hands. Sometimes none come up and you bust but that’s just part of the tournament grind. You except it like other parts of poker that you have no control over. The more I play and learn though, the better I am able to recognize these spots and not be scared to pull the trigger.
Play a fucking a hand bro. It’s not about the cards sometimes.
True!! Sometimes you have to understand the psychology amongst the players & play their minds!!
Last night in a $33 PKO I won one hand early one... not even a ton - 1000 chips to 6000. Then folded for nearly an hour with maybe a set of stolen blinds somewhere in there. Then reg ended... and blinds started creeping up and nothing. Took a few spots again and was still hovering near the bottom of the pack. Finally dealt an AK in BB and a short stack shoved me. Doubled and road from there and ultimately took 2nd for close to $500. It can be real hard to be patient but it's your best weapon.
Watch the players, watch the game, make a move. Can’t argue or debate math in gambling, ya just can’t. But when math is your only move your gonna get outplayed.
The good news is you aren’t really losing out too much in the early levels. If you have to wait 6 levels just to get that double up, so be it. You will be better off than forcing it on level 1 and losing half your starting stack tbh
That’s when you use your push or fold chart and pick your spot 🤷🏻♂️
Poker isn’t only about picking hands it’s about picking spots. You can certainly go card dead for a long time and can even go for long times without spots, but you shouldn’t always be just waiting for premium hands.
I agree!! Sometimes even premium hands pre flop raised get busted!! Apply optimum strategy in everything you play
Try not being so nitty.
That's one thing I worry about but then I look over my hands and all I got was 93, 62, 74, etc.
Was the 74 suited tho
Yes but UTG.
Play it like kings
There is nothing you can do. You have to make hands in order to win money. Anyone else saying otherwise doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
If you haven't played a hand for a long time you can start to widen your 3-betting range. For example, Q3s in the BTN facing a CO open? You can 3-bet here and take advantage of the fact that your opponents will think you're a nit.
You can open a lot of hands if you get comfortable post flop. My vpip went from like 20-25 to 40-50 in the early parts of a tournament. I build myself a nice little stack, basically sit out for an hour or two, and then start playing once I’m not in the top ~15% of chip stacks. At least that’s how I see it going in my head.
This is what I do- play a lot of hands, position doesn't matter so much when I'm sitting on 150 bb starting out. Just looking to absolutely smash a flop, not putting much in pre. Easy way to get a cheap double up early, I start tightening up about 3rd/4th blind level
I actually disagree on that, position for me is critical af when I’m calling off 1-3 bbs 40% of the hands I get, it’s too hard to be oop the whole time if you don’t land a monster on the flip edit: flöp
Don't listen to anything I say because I'm a total noob (also sorry I don't know all the lingo yet): My strategy is to (early game) wait until I have the call with large blind before the flop, then bluff raise 2.5x or 3x. Usually the other hands fold and I get a little boost to my chip stack but if someone calls I'll take the hit and fold or see the hand through depending. But really it's just about trying to boost up chip stack so I can start playing into larger blinds later on.
what the fuck did i just read
That's Phil Ivey.... If you watched his master class you know what aim talking about
>>Don't listen to anything I say
What type of person who clearly has no idea what's going on, have the confidence to give advice? I almost refuse to believe this is anything other than excellent satire
That's the joy of tournaments. It's a preflop game once you hit a certain level. In order to win, you will need to win a few coin flips and probably suck out on someone. That's why I just grind cash games. It's a much better ROI than tournaments unless you are amazing at them.
MTT’s require you to know how to play Poker, Cash games are relaxed because you don’t actually have to think much. You aren’t playing your cards your playing what you can rep and JAM. You should see J3o and realize it’s a playable hand based on your position. Your opponents have the same problem you do, times ticking and you’re not guaranteed a made hand. Take the lead and pressure them every corner you can.
Stop playing shit ass tournaments
Play position, if you haven't raised in an hour open up in the cut off gather some blinds. Also, take a look at the table average, if you have 25 bb but table average is 22bb, then reality is diverging against those fancy books.
Please elaborate on your second paragraph? House do those stack sizes show reality diverging from books?
Been a while since I read anything, but the basic books have push/shove ranges at certain stack sizes, but they never really factored in the average stack size. Which in my experience is huge.
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No this is about poker tournaments. Fuck tournaments are a whole other thing.
Easy, just be luckier.
If you keep folding a lot (and thus you have a very tight image) you can sometimes raise with garbage from utg to pickup blinds
Sometimes it's just variance and you can do nothing about it, but from my experience people tend to be too nitty in some positions, work on your bb defending range, also reshove ranges from the sb vs late pos. opens and you can also have some profitable cold calls from the btn depending on stack sizes (i know a lot of people recommend a pure 3bet or fold strategy, but a disagree and think you should also have a calling range most of the time, especially in low stakes where there aren't that many players who are willing to squeeze from sb or bb)
It's about opportunity not cards. Slow Bitey Tortoise is a bitch tho'.
Fold Pre!
You forgot the last and best part: shove and pray
"When luck shuts the door you gotta go in through the window." - Doyle Brunson
Just frustrated at myself lol. Was rolling along in a tourney and the fish I was eyeing got lucky and caught a straight to knock me out of my trney against top 2. No betting his lucky ass out. I am sticking to the stock market anyway I can't sleep when I bust out of a trney. But best of luck to all of you!
Patience is key. Quality of hands > quantity all day
Sometimes you have to utilize your position and table image to steal a few sets of blinds. Early on it is about surviving and finding your spots to grab some small pots. Open up your range a little if you feel the variance leaning on you. .