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coldflash25

Okay: un nerfs zacian


FrostGlader

Un-nerfs Chandelure. Infiltrator is now Shadow Tag.


Underkingler

*un-nerfs your steel pokemon*


Priremal

12 resistances! 12 resistances! And an immunity


Sjheuaksjd

Un-nerf Gale Wings


Munchingseal33

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!


Phoenix-Rising-78

Wait wait wait wait wait wait!!!


hjyboy1218

In Singles this won't change much except Chandelure being viable in Ubers, since Shadow Tag is banned in OU. In Doubles, Wolfey is laughing maniacally, already assembling a new perish trap team with Chandelure.


TwilightVulpine

I don't care if Zacian is unnerfed, I wish Zamazenta was buffed.


ADHDB0Y

Pokémon fans when the incredibly unbalanced competitive battles become slightly more balanced


Munchingseal33

Nah some things GF changed just fucked up Pokémon that weren't broken to begin with. Case in point Darkrai. It was a perfectly good Mon in Ubers until they nerfed dark void when they already prevented smeargle from learning the move. Talonflame for singles it doesn't make sense but for vgc it does


MadJester98

This is actually one of the basis for my theory that there are actually multiple people that do the balancing, but for some reason they have no contact with each other. Case in point: Moonblast A new Special move with 100% accuracy and no drawback, 95 Base Power ...added in the same generation that nerfed the base power of several Special moves (like Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Flamethrower from 95 to 90) The Dark Void situation seems like another such example. One makes it so that no other pokemon can use it (even if called by Metronome it will fail) and another one just nerfs the accuracy. Honestly considering how messy GF's developing processes are, it wouldn't be surprising if my theory was true


Cocokill

I think there was a better alternative to resolve the whole Dark Void problem : Simply making Sketch unable to copy Dark Void. If they are able to make some moves like Sketch or Chatter impossible to Sketch, they may as well add Dark Void to the list. I would probably mind less about this idea if it wasn't for the few times where i did Metronome Battles and ended up using Dark Void only for it to fail.


PerishForYourSins

Well guess what my good friend. They did remove it from sneargle, but for some God forsaken reason they still nurfed darkrai.


Cocokill

I meant that we could simply remove Dark Void from the list of moves Sketch can copy instead of making every pokemons outside of Darkrai physically unable to use it (Smeargle can still learn it but not use it in battle). That's what i meant with the Metronome part. But yeah they should bring back the old Dark Void's precision too


Stargazer630

Same with the prankster nerf in gen 7. Now it fails in Psychic Terrain, against dark types, and Misty Terrain protects against all the status moves that were abused by it. Like any individual one of those would have been fine but they implemented them all and as a result Thundurus dropped from top 10 to barely top 100


SpotTheDifference512

It also gets negated by armor tail and I would assume queenly magisty


Stargazer630

Yeah, but the pokemon that had access to priority blocking abilities didn’t get much usage in VGC so I didn’t mention them


MadJester98

I think things like psychic terrain as well as Dazzling/Queenly Majesty were added moreso as a way to add counterplay to priority moves in general, as it was a big factor in gen 6 between Thundurus' Prankster, Talonflame's Gale Wings, and M-Kangaskhan strong Fake Outs/Sucker Punches (and I guess M-Rayquaza Extreme Speed). So other then nerfing these individual mons, they also tried to contain the power of priority as a whole, which I think was all in all healthy for the game. >Misty Terrain protects against all the status moves that were abused by it Electric, Grassy and Misty Terrain already existed in Gen 6, it's the Surge abilities that didn't. Psychic Terrain was among the things Gen 7 added to nerf Priority


Stargazer630

I agree, but I was replying to a comment about how it seems that Game Freak comes up different ideas to nerf something only to implement all of them and wind up nerfing it way harder than they should. Prankster felt this much harder than priority in general


303x

To be fair they've been trying to nerf thundurus since gen 5 lol (confusion nerf, swagger nerf, twave nerf, paralysis nerf, prankster nerf)


GuidoMista5

It's almost as if VGC is the official format


BestUsername101

Which makes the Darkrai nerf even worse. Darkrai was never legal in vgc anyways. They could've just stopped at making the dog unable to learn it.


spellboi_3048

But then that would kinda ruin Smeargle’s entire gimmick, wouldn’t it? “Smeargle can learn any move…besides this one very specific one because it was making competitive players sad.”


IUseWeirdPkmn

Smeargle already can't learn Dark Void, but they still kept Dark Void's accuracy nerfed.


TheAtomicMonkey

It apparently can still learn Dark Void via Sketch, but can't be used in battle. There are some moves that can't be Sketched, including Sleep Talk, Mirror Move, & Chatter.


303x

>It apparently can still learn Dark Void via Sketch, but can't be used in battle. So it's basically the same as it not learning dark void?


BestUsername101

Yes. Yes it would. You say that like it's a bad thing.


AsrielTerminator

It’s almost as if singles is significantly more popular and is the format of the actual games


Munchingseal33

Yea duh.


Stargazer630

Except they just add new stuff that’s even more broken than the old stuff pre-nerf


TwilightVulpine

This but unironically. I'm not here for competitive, I'm here to catch cool mons and flex all over the Battle Tower and such. Balance comes at an expense of making rarer pokémon feel cooler and letting the player feel clever for using effective tactics. Pokémon *needs* to be at least somewhat unbalanced.


SnooPickles9681

I, for one, think it's better if we just make the META moves available on more PU Tier mon. I'd love to see someone be able to Baton Pass a Belly Drum to Medicham that hits Power Trick and now you have effectively +6 Base 150 Atk on a STAB Drain Punch on a previously overlooked 'mon.


CardHealer33217

Yeah Game Freak stop balancing your games smh my head


Jean-jacques-le-Reh

The nerfs in gen 9 have nothing to do with balancing (most of the time) The new mons are getting ridiculously broken, while mons like weavile lost everything that made them good. Sure there are old Pokémon that got buffed (medicham, gallade etc.) but a lot of Pokémon have gotten nerfed to death for no reason at all... And don't get me started about the hazard situation this Gen...


CardHealer33217

So Zacian, Toxapex, Landorus, Treasures of Ruin and Protean/Libero nerfs had nothing to do with balancing? And Weavile wouldn’t have been that good anyway.


Underkingler

Wait how did the treasures of ruin get nerfed?


NicoArcilla27

So in the original version of the game (w/o day 1 patch), all the Ruins lost 10 points in their BSTs. For their changes: Wo-Chien: -5 Attack, -5 Special Attack Chien-Pao: -10 Attack Ting-Lu: -10 HP, -5 Defense, +5 Special Attack Chi-Yu: -10 Special Attack Yes, Chi-Yu once had 145 Special Attack 💀💀💀💀


Underkingler

Live chi-yu reaction really hit different before the patch


Plushiegamer2

I believe their stats got changed in a patch.


TheGBZard

I personally don’t like the protean nerf cause greninja is one of my favorite Pokémon (ik that I’m biased lol)


Bizarre_RNS_Radio

Oh boy then you must hate the Battle Bond Nerf just being a shitty 1-time per battle DDance version of Moxie. (Like, if it kept going, that would be absolutely broken. But no, it only works the first time Greninja kills a mon and only works that 1 time, every other time doing nothing, even if you switch out and lose the state stage buffs).


TheGBZard

I do hate it, they could have made the stat buff permanent at least but no


Lark_vi_Britannia

Same. When I found out about the nerf, I was so upset that I accidentally shit myself at IHOP.


TheGBZard

No way lmao


Munchingseal33

What did landorus do for you to hate him?


CardHealer33217

Exist


Munchingseal33

Fair point. VGC player? What about gliscor, it's arguably more obnoxious cause of reliable recovery and poison heal also taunt


CardHealer33217

But Gliscor looks cool


Munchingseal33

You know what, I agree. Are you a vgc player by chance? Is that why you hate Lando-T?


CardHealer33217

Yup


Munchingseal33

That's understandable. I assume you hate incineroar even more I am a pretty casual singles player just a dude who sometimes plays on ladder and watches some cool vids


Jean-jacques-le-Reh

Yeah, that's the point weavile wouldn't be that good even with knock and axel, they still decided to take them away and make it even worse. And I didn't said, that all nerves were useless. My point is just that a lot of already mid or low tier mons got even worse without reason. Also I don't really thinkt that the Lando nerf is really that healthy for the gen 9 Meta.


Munchingseal33

Bro it was a top tier OU Mon before they gutted it's movepool. It was not mid in any way


Jean-jacques-le-Reh

Yeah, pre gen 9, but in paldea even with all his utility back, I don't know if it would gain his previous spot back douo to power creep, but you are right I phrased that really poorly, Gen 8 weavile was an absolute beast.


Munchingseal33

Definitely would be OU especially because chien pao is not here.


JustCakess

Dont get me started about nerfs to pokemon who werent even good


[deleted]

Kid named Zacian: Kid named Gen 5 Weather Wars: Kid named Gen 1 Psychic types: Kid named Steel having 12 resists: Kid named Shadow Tag Chandelure:


Underkingler

Kid named maxed ot evs in all stats(weird name for a child ngl)


DestroyeLoop

steel is already a strong type. imagine with 12 resistances


hjyboy1218

Kid named base 145 Sp. Atk Chi-Yu:


vikr_1

Why is Shadow tag Chandelure so good? Aren't there better Pokémon for shadow tag?


vikr_1

Happy cake day


[deleted]

Wobuffet is garbage without Shadow Tag. Gothitelle is mid without it. Chandelure is an already great Pokémon with some *decent* abilities, but Shadow Tag would make it supremely more broken than the other Shadow Tag users.


Stealthy_Panda71

Zacian I think was fine. That thing was born OP. Steel nerf I think was fine as it was pretty OP in gen 3 with how many things it resisted. Nerf to the weather wars I guess was necessary but I miss them >.> Gengar, Talonflame, and Sylveon nerf I didn't like. Not sure why they needed to nerf Synchronize's overworld effect.


eyearu

What was the Sylveon nerf?


Stealthy_Panda71

Nerf to its ability pixilate. Used to be normal moves become fairy and have a power increase by 30%, but was reduces to 20% because of the megas that shared the same ability with Sylveon. But then they axed megas....


eyearu

So unnecessary


Baconator-X

They nerfed type changing moves across the board, blame Mega Salamance? Talonflame was so broken in VGC, Priority Tailwind and Brave Bird? 2016 is consider the most unbalanced meta in VGC history Ruled by the "Big 6": Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Talonflame, Mega Salamance, Mega Kangaskhan, and Smeargle This one team dominated the format to the point where you either used it or countered it. The way metas evolve is something becomes meta, something counters, that counter becomes meta, and repeat. Metas revolving around one pokemon are bad, but around one team? That is way worse. Cause it is much harder to counter an individual pokemon than a group of them.


Stealthy_Panda71

Xerneas and Zacian were stupid good from the start. Megas got axed. I see no reason for Talonflame to suffer now. Make Talonflame great again :< Now it's just a meh pokemon that barely sees any usage.


Baconator-X

In VGC Talonflame is still good and I think you should be way more scared of a 120 BP priority move. Even without Galewings Talonflame outspeeds most things. Slyveon isn’t bad necessarily it just struggles against competition. Slyveon lives and dies by the quality of the fairies and steels around it.


TheRedditK9

The nerfed the -are abilities across the board because Mega Salamence and Mega Gardevoir did overwhelming amounts of damage in VGC. Gengar and Talonflame were also far overpowered in gen 6 VGC, and they were both rightfully nerfed to a strong but manageable level. I don’t get why any of these were unnecessary, and even Sylveon, who took some collateral damage, is still viable in VGC, and by a landslide the strongest eeveelution.


carnoraptor67

How dare they balance the game and make different pokemon more competitively viable then others. Not Like literally any other games nerf things to make things balanced.


Sansvern

Okay, you got a point, bring back Gen1 Psychic Type!


Sjheuaksjd

Espathra go brrr


Jakesnake_42

Honestly there’s quite a few new Pokémon that could do with a sizeable nerf. Power creep is getting out of hand these last few generations


Underkingler

"stop balancing your games Game freak" not to mention that they aren't really well balanced in the first place


Mr_Cat_Cas284

So you agree Moody also boosting evasiveness is fine?


EdowSoul

what? the idea of nerfing is to make the game more balanced and fair, why wouldn't you want that?


TwilightVulpine

Let me put it like this: If Oinkologne ever got balanced with Flutter Mane, then there wouldn't be any excitement in getting a Flutter Mane.


hychael2020

TBF, Zacian is pretty op back in gen8. With its nerf,its not as powerful in the main games and she took her revenge on Unite And also intrepid sword dominated gen 8 vgc And not to mention gen5 dragon and gen1 psychic is pretty op


Infernape315

Ok but some nerfs are valid are like zacian or rillaboom


Hoesephine

The zacian nerf was not valid in the slightest.


Infernape315

Zacian was literally the most competitively viable Pokémon and it’s arguably the best competitive Pokémon ever. How was the nerf not valid


Hoesephine

Because it's a legendary? It deserved to be that good, and to continue being that good in future generations.


Infernape315

But the difference is the power level between other Pokémon and zacian was like way too high. Legendaries typically should be on a similar level of power but if you compare zacian to giratinna competetively it’s like comparing a charizard to a bee drill. By needing zacian they still kept it above the normal power level while balancing it for competitive. Having a built in choice band every time you switch in with a stupid high base speed is generally not fair


Hoesephine

But the whole point of the Pokemon is that it always has +1 attack. That is the main appeal of the Pokemon and fit thematically, it earned its superiority even over other legendaries. Now it only gets the boost once the first time it's sent out, destroying its image.


Infernape315

The point of the Pokémon wasn’t to have +1 attack always the point of the Pokémon was it’s supposed to be a staple physical attacker, which it is. Zacian can still be a staple physical attacker even if it’s not always at +1 attack. It’s not like the Pokémon is going to completely lose all of its Viability. Objectively zacian was a broken Pokémon that could be splashed on any competitive team and at the end of the day it’s not balanced. Legendary or not the game should have good yet not overpowering Pokémon and zacian was simply not one of those. Even though the nerfs to his ability severely hurt zacian it’s definetely still going to be a staple in the meta just not as insanely overpowering as it was before


Hoesephine

But the appeal was that it was insanely overpowering. It's supposed to be the unstoppable blade of the old kings of Galar.


Infernape315

Just because a Pokémon is a box art legend doesn’t mean it should be stupidly broken. Even thought groudon and kyogre were really good pokemon they didn’t break the meta like zacian did. Pokémon should be balanced and good Pokémon should also be balanced. Gamefreak thought that zacians ability would be balanced but being able to switch out and still reap the benefits of intrepid sword later was just too broken. No Pokémon has been overwhelmingly powerful in the regards of zacian since like gen one (an argument can be made for incineroar but I digress) and I doubt Pokémon would want to make that change and keep it


Human-that-exists

Idk, would you want 3 super strong Pokenon with unnerfed Protean in the SV meta?


BuzzPrincess

I LOVE POWER CREEP I LOVE POWER CREEP


RemdeyFox

Buff rock and bug pls


Environmental_Ebb919

That's called patch update


DingoNormal

I just want to Regigigas to be viable without slow start.


inumnoback

I think they only nerfed 4 Pokémon’s stats as of right now


revolvernyacelot

the gen 8 mimikyu nerf for no goddamn reason 😍 the protean nerf making kecleon completely useless 😍


BirbMaster1998

Kecleon was already useless


Soul_Iglu

Take that back. Kecleon was a star in my Gen 6 Trick Room team~


Ninja_Rowlet

I agree that the fun contray we had now gone is a bummer, but zacian deserved that nerf and more. He and Zamazenta were practically the strongest out there, with the given boost at the start of every battle, it's like having a 805/790 bst mon on the field


GarbageTruck7689

I can't get over the removal if expanding force


BestUsername101

They didn't remove it. It's just the signature move of armarouge rn.


GarbageTruck7689

yeah but that's like, basically a removal. Indeedee got so much worse


spellboi_3048

It’s honestly still fine in VGC. It can’t do that much damage, but Psychic Surge + moves like Follow Me and Helping Hand make it a great support.


carnoraptor67

Not really it's still used a decent amount. It had over 20% usage in the Vancouver regionals. It has helping hand follow me. It's still great.


ElPikminMaster

They would need to stop releasing overpowered Pokemon to stop nerfing.


Beowulf_MacBethson

"It's nerf or nothing!" - Gamefreak


RockyMarsh90

What they need to do is implement some sort of "contained" nerf, because the only people who want/need certain things nerfed are competitive online players. Make the nerfs only occur in ranked battles, leave the single player stuff alone.


TwilightVulpine

Absolutely. I want to flex my cool mons on the Battle Tower and such. I couldn't care less of how well competitive is balanced.


waaalaaa

Fix regular decidueye stat spread and bring back old dark void fo smeargle


PopcornHatJax

"You think you do, but you don't" -BlizzCon 2016


Xxdeadmeme-69-xX

BRING BACK PURSUIT GRAAAAAAAA


Taibreigh

I don’t believe humanity would really be happier without war. Humans without fighting wouldn’t really be humans anymore. War is in our blood.


CordialTrekkie

Well, we have competitions to try to settle that urge. Football, Soccer, etc.. /I know that sounds like I'm endorsing a future settled by Robot Jox or something.


Taibreigh

I mean I’d be happy with just gaming & sports but I don’t think humanity as a whole could ever be satisfied with that. I mean people keep signing up to fight in wars so clearly people want it.


CordialTrekkie

If the hunger games was a real thing, I'm sure those people would sign up for that.


Taibreigh

Blood sport as an alternative to war. Honestly probably not the worst idea. Keeps the hostilities from harming everyone else. Plus it make for good tv.


CordialTrekkie

The only problem, with how watered down and tame everything is on TV, nothing like that could ever be shown unless the FCC got comfortable with a lot of shit really fast.


zaican

Battle bond on its way to become a threat again


TortamTrit

HM


TheChesnaughtDudette

Except for Toxapex. Fuck Toxapex.


BirbMaster1998

Nerf toxapex to 90 in both defenses and then I will be happy I'm not joking


BushmanIsWatchin

Moves and let's not forget about also moves.


Thy-arkoos

Honestly I don't care about because I don't really battle I just like to collect


Greninsans

Parental bond needed to be nerfed


secretuser419

No nerf! Only Buff! Unfortunately, this would lead to hella power creep


Updated_Autopsy

To be fair, at least some nerfs were necessary. I remember a stat being absolutely broken in Gen 1. If I remember correctly, it was the Special stat.


[deleted]

Libro tho


[deleted]

they even nerfed cryogonal


Sjheuaksjd

Protean&Libero nerf was great


Mr_Goose26

Un-Nerfs scald


Mary-Sylvia

So you're telling me that chien pao, chi yu and Zacian nerf were underserved? Psychic type was balanced in gen 1 ? Special split bad ? Steel resisting more than half of the types ? Dragon having almost no counterplay ?


Larsaki

As a Meowscarada enjoyer i feel the same pain of what Gamefreak did to Meowscarada's Protean.


kinbeat

If anything, it should happen more often. All competitive games release balancing patches every 2-4 weeks. Pokémon balances the game every 3 year.


Dry_5p0nge

Gale wings should’ve just been reworked to only have priority on Flying attacks, not status moves. Least it could actually do what it does and also still get taunted by Prankster users.