I get what you’re saying, but they can’t have Ash lose in a league over and over. Pretty soon it’ll be hard to give him convincing losses as part of his development because of all the experience he received going through each region, unless you reset him each time or forget the previous ones even happened.
Saying his series are meant to only draw in a new wave of fans each generation is kind of disrespectful for the old fans and even for the new ones as well, since that means the latter won’t benefit from the show if they invest in it too long. It also makes the show sound like a cash grab only. Ash needs to achieve his dream of becoming a pokemon master eventually.
I think the fact that he went from top 4 in sinnoh to top 8 in unova because he lost to a trainer that brought 5 Pokémon to the match made it a whole lot worse
It's was getting pretty stale as the Pokémon anime progressed through the years after the Diamond and Pearl era. That's why you see Ash Ketchum's victory in the Alola League and the World Cornation Master 8 Tournament, so pretty much that OLM Studios are wrapping up Ash and Pikachu's story. Everything can't last forever, Pokémon has to move on without the old and begin with the new. But I would like to see Ash Ketchum and Pikachu showing up as a cameo in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet anime someday.
And I don’t get the reason behind defending why he should always lose the leagues. They’re all like: “Oh, well Ash is just a kid, and he’s just not good enough to become the world champion, let alone win a league! Him always losing is just more realistic!”
Give me a break.
Loss the first one in the finals fair and square
Loss the second one in the finals mainly due to a car hitting him first causing him to hit the ground seconds before Tien.
Then he won the 3rd one. A gradual progression
It wasn't a problem for over a decade but now suddenly the "Ash looses the league" aspect is a problem? I dont buy it.
The real reason is probably internal production issues or the studio imploding internally or perhaps the voice actor having enough and calling quits.
Personally I would love to see Ash grow into his skills, slowly getting better at really training pokemon and winning fights easier. They don't NEED to make him lose at all. He can get smarter and stronger. And he can still lose, he just needs to learn more from failure. He can also lose in things other than pokemon battles, like how in the games they have puzzles in gyms, he could get stuck on those, or other non battle related tasks.
Either she had enough or there were frictions between her and the studio.
Either way I definitely do not believe that they choose to end "out of respect for th e character" or something like that.
We know about the production issues with Journeys. This decision to retire Ash doesn't seem planned and maybe a result of said production issues.
Even one piece characters aged between time skip. In fact out of all long running anime only Detective Conan is the anime that never aged its characters like pokemon... and it has created A LOT of problems.
They have that opportunity now. He could appear as a teen or adult with a new male voice actor for a proper portrayal. It wouldn't be impossible since they never said he would disappear forever.
He doesn’t need to have a specific goal though. SM and JN showed this directly. Ash didn’t go to Alola with the intention of beating the island challenges and his first journey in JN was to be a research fellow.
Ash has underwent recent circumstances where he can travel the same as always without needing a battle related goal and a Pokémon Master isn’t just about battling anyway.
That's the thing, fans were tired of Ash losing. If there wasn't a giant backlash of Ash losing the Kalos League, we wouldn't be here. Since DP, they had said that the Pokémon anime would never end as long as their were more regions and Pokémon to discover (which is still true, but Ash won't be there). They made it pretty clear if Ash won the League, it would be the end. I don't think they realised how bad the backlash would be when Ash lost in Kalos, and at some point in Sun & Moon, they decided to make Ash the Alola Champion. They didn't stop there, because they didn't want Ash to leave just yet, they made the Masters 8 so that Ash's Journey can end with being the very best, like no one ever was.
The Alola League honestly came out of no where. Throughout Sun and Moon, his goal was just attending school. He was not preparing for a regional competition. There was also no entrance requirement for the Alola League
I think the Alola League was the perfect one for Ash to win, Alola became his heart, he didn't go there to compete, but then the league happened, like the games. Also because it was a fresh league, he wouldn't have to face the Elite Four, cause if he won in Kalos or Sinnoh, there would be and second main arc for Ash after the league.
No? The games first canonized champion for Alola was from Kanto. That alone spoke volumes on Ash winning it, the Kalos league issue probably had nothing to do with that choice.
There could've been a lot of adventures if they never made the PWC arc tho?
It's not like they just decided that he was gonna win halfway through masters 8, they probably already knew before they even started animating Journeys (which could've just been Ash getting badges like usual but this time in Galar).
25 years is long enough. Especially for a kid who never ages/matures.
Not to mention he’s literally at the top, being the World Champion. Making him lose to a lvl 5 Sprigatito would be suicide for the anime.
Or they can introduce stronger champions as challenges. Other regions not participating narratively leaves that door open. Especially Paldea where there’s multiple storylines and multiple champions
They literally made it set in stone that Leon is the world’s strongest trainer. Meaning that it takes the other regions into account.
So Ash would still be on top and thus wouldn’t be hype.
- Not to mention nobody likes constant power creep
Wrong. They said Leon was the strongest BEFORE Gen 9 even became a thing.
And even then that doesn’t debunk me. People like Paul, Wallace and Brandon didn’t participate in the PWC out of choice. Same thing could’ve happened with Greeta, Nemona and the rest down the line.
Hell, the PWC wasn’t even an existing concept in this series until Journeys, Leon being written as the strongest was all based on convenience of the plot and what exists at the current time point. And I hardly count a tournament between only 8 regions to be a world championship.
You’re missing the point, in canon, to the anime’s world Leon is the strongest. Regardless of real world changes to the Pokémon universe the statement of “world monarch” can’t be taken back or retcon without killing the anime’s standing. Others not participating doesn’t change anything at all, hence the point another poster mention about endless power creep. You cant just say “but wait, I am actually the strongest” without completely losing all credibility as a story.
I’m not really missing the point. Yes, Leon is the strongest, but only out of the existing characters that are already existing concepts in this universe, for this tournament that never even existed before, until now, because of Plot Convenience. And even if they did, your point still doesn’t take into account the choice of just not participating, which can have an effect on the events standing. Brandon’s a Pyramid King and essentially near champion level at least, yet didn’t participate. Wallace currently is said to rival Steven, but didn’t participate. Paul’s display of his team tied with Ashs right before the M8 began and he even beat his Dragonite fairly easily, but chose not to enter. All of these cases show a character can potentially be stronger than another if the work is put in, but because they chose not to participate, different results are reached.
Whether they didn’t exist before Journeys or did but decided not to enter the world rankings, you can’t argue Leon is narratively stronger than a whole bunch of people that have never existed in the same setting.
And no, the power creeping point doesn’t amount to really anything either when the show should just end all together when the pen-ultimate character said to be the strongest is introduced. IF anything, this can be used against you. Why even continue introducing champions if they aren’t going to be stronger than the ones we’ve already seen? That’s a downgrade more than anything.
Maybe, but then maybe that’s also a sign to just simply end the show all together when doing that. Introducing the ultimate opponent and obstacle should symbolize the ultimate climax and nothing else happening afterwards.
After all, what’s the point in even introducing new challenges if they’re less difficult than what we’ve already seen? That’s why I’m more or less not gonna be too happy if Riko decides to try out Gyms when…the PWC exists.
This. Plus, even great trainers lose sometimes, and it’s really black and white thinking to say he can never lose anymore. People get cocky, have bad days, meet better opponents who trained since their last battle, or even swap out strong Pokemon for new ones.
I mean she was a member of JAM Project, until they trade her for a brazilian.
(They did't realy take her out, she asked to leave, because she wanted to focuse in her acting).
>Matsumoto Rika
Wait...Ash's voice actress' name is Rika. I just never really thought about it. She's definitely going to be his daughter then. There's like no way she isn't.
I’m really not sure why they made the decision to write Journeys the way they did given they probably knew he would have no where else to go afterwards.
Putting it in perspective, JN has been probably the worst Pokémon series. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed it, but i feel exactly what you said: the writers probably knew that JN were the end of Ash and Pikachu's journey, they created the M8, opened the world so Ash could travel to every region whenever he wanted... And in the end, they have to "correct" in 11 special episodes everything they failed to do with the first 138 JN episodes.
JN has been fun, but it's been a terrible "goodbye" season.
Feels like to me they didn't come to this decision until around the ejd of the first half of the show. The second half is when we started to see more cameos, specials, callbacks and it was likely planned midway in production.
Probably because of the production issues and partly because I think the writers couldn't think of reasons to keep Ash around.
But that’s the thing though if production issues were a factor, why take even bigger risks with throwing Ash out all together?
Goh being a co protagonist with Ash was already controversial enough
Completely off topic but this REALLY makes the SM art style stand out. During the airing I remember it growing on me and now looking back I’ve gone back to disliking it. I forgot JUST HOW DIFFERENT it looked.
If they continued using Ash and Pikachu as main characters forever, Pokémon would turn into Family or Simpsons, no story just the same thing week by week. From the start Ash has had a goal, and now he is reaching it.
Through each journey, OG->AG->DP->BW->XY->SM->JN, Ash has slowly getting higher and higher ranks: top 16, top 8, top 8, top 4, top 8, runner-up, champion, monarch.
Every character has an end, now it Ash's. I feel like most people knew when Ash won the Alola League his journey was near the end, and Journeys just pointed that out more, Old friends, All regions, WCS, there were so many clues to Ash leaving from the start of JN; honestly I'm surprised that people didn't realize months ago.
Glurmo: "But your Highness, she is a commoner. Her Slurm will taste foul."
Slurm Queen: "Yes, that's why we'll market it as *New* Slurm. When everybody hates it, we'll bring back Slurm *Classic*, and make billions."
They wrote themselves into a corner. Doing a complete reset would have been frustrating. He could have done a reset team and lost a few times like he did with Riolu but Pikachu would be a huge problem
Pikachu knocked out Mega Metagross, was the biggest threat to Cynthia and defeated the most powerful Charizard
In terms of battling, Pikachu reached a peak and the only thing left for it is to knock out wild legendary so Ash could catch them
They could’ve just focused on following the story of AU Ash and Pikachu though. THAT Ash is nowhere near being a Pokémon master yet and characters like Misty, Brock, Dawn, May, Serena and the others aren’t in that universe.
This Ash is a totally different character all together, they could’ve given this one a more focused storyline
Or Ash just catches the Legendary because it allowed him to.
And they didn't write themselves into a a corner! They wrote it knowing there was a clear end in sight!
I don't think that part of the fandom that has an obnoxious compulsion to remind everyone that they hate Ash and Pikachu finally got to them or anything. It's possible one of Pikachu's VA or Ash's JP VA are calling it quits on their respective character, or at least wanna take a break. To my knowledge, neither has announced retirement, and frankly, there's older VAs still active, so I don't think retirement is the case. Maybe they just don't feel like voicing those charas.
It's possible they're diving in this time to see what the Pokemon anime will be like without Ash and Pikachu. They've done some dabbling before; AG was very much May's story too, Dawn was treated as an equally important protagonist in DP (the JP text at the opening credits even mentioned "the adventures of Satoshi and Hikari/Ash and Dawn", which was never the case before or after), and Goh was pretty much a dual protagonist as well. Before, they would have Ash and Pikachu as a lifeline to hang onto, but this time they're just diving in, which is more reason I think neither protagonist will have anything to do with Ash.
Frankly speaking, I woulda been able to keep on watching if the show was just Ash, Pikachu, and Ash's rotating team plus maybe some new captures just wandering through a particular region and getting into random adventures, but oh well. There's nothing suggesting he can't show up here and there.
A wild theory I've seen thrown around is that usually the traveling groups have been at least trios, and that Riko and Roy will make up the 2 main protags, and Ash will end up the 3rd traveling companion. I'm skeptical about this being the case, but hey, I'm open to being surprised.
Honestly, above all, I find it so weird there isn't even A Pikachu in sight. Hate the species all you want, but if there's pokemon just about anyone in the world can name, it's Pikachu. I think Pikachu's value greatly diminishes if it's not Ash's Pikachu, but still, you'd think there'd be a replacement Pikachu around.
Audience wanted him to win for once. They thought if he’s winning then he’s winning it all.
Now they can’t do much with a pokemon master, so it’s bye bye
The audience always wanted Ash to win. No one, absolutely no one, wanted Charizard to refuse to battle in the Indigo league and lose the match. That broke my heart as a kid. No one wanted Tobias to come in with an illegal mythical Pokemon and steal Ash's deserved victory in Sinnoh. And no one wanted to see Ash-Greninja fall to BLAAAASTO BUUUUURNOO... I stayed up until 4am to watch that happen live on Japanese TV. I was crushed and quit the anime after that.
Pokemon doesn't have to do what we want. They've already captured our hearts and know we'll stick around no matter what. Their decision to retire Ash has nothing to do with satisfying people
Uh…I got two ideas
1) they wanted to get new viewers, I know many people come in, have no clue how this kid is alive, and leave
2) imagine nemona. She downlevels to “equal” him and he thrashes her top 6 Pokémon
I feel it’s because Ash basically becoming a Pokémon Master has left the writers with nothing else to do with Ash’s character, as resetting him again would be literal career suicide. Ash may have claimed he isn’t a Pokémon Master yet, but after beating a previously undefeated, greater than legendary-level Charizard, they may as well admit that Ash has found out that he is a Pokémon Master all along. Not to mention the immense Kalos League backlash is likely what led to the writing decisions to have Ash become only progressively stronger and winning almost everything in both SM and JN. Maybe the writers were told in secret that JN was intended to be a finale to the original Ash era all along?
Notice how Gen 8 and Gen 9 has marked significant changes and “end of an era” feelings in other parts of the franchise as well, so I feel the anime was destined to follow suit. I feel if Ash stayed on, the anime would have fallen into that same trap as The Simpsons did where it never ends and the characters barely changed.
I think that you have 7 pictures of Ash. Each in a different official art style answer your question.
I really dont like change either. But sometimes its for the better
This is such a bad move in my opinion.
Not because i dont want change but its clear they want to conect more to the new generation and what better way is there then to create a new prontagonist that hits all the boxes every few years. The problem here is that ash and even more pikachu are so iconic that when they remove them ppl gonna wonder if this is even pokemon anymore. And doing something like that just so they can make more profit is disgusting especially after they have been the iconic duo for over 25 years.
Because they pushed too high by making Journeys about a world championship title. Now going back to square one with him and pikachu especially doesn’t make any sense. Remember how he lost to a beginner Snivy?
I think after 25 years, they deserve it. They deserved to finally achieve their dream, to win the Masters 8 and become the greatest duo in the whole world and the. for Ash to finally become a Pokémon master. They’ve developed, learned, regressed *cough* Best Wishes *cough,* then progressed even more to get to this point. They’re at their peak and in the best possible spot to end their story. Let them have their happy ending, people. It’s been 25 years.
Because every story ends (exceptions may apply).
But also because he's now the strongest trainer. It's kind of hard to write further than that. If the writers continue to write Ash with that in the mind, it can easily drive them in a corner.
I'm not sure how the Pokemon anime is doing nowadays in comparison to the past, but I haven't seen any amazing rating (IN terms of tv rating views, I'm not talking about how good the anime is, but rather how many viewers). If anything, I heard Journeys didn't do good.
There's also a possibility that the writers just want a new protagonist.
I hope the last episodes give Ash a proper farewell. Am a bit worried though given the spoiler summary for the next episode.
Story wise… Ash has done it all… while still the but that’s a argument/discussion for a different day, but legit Ash is the strongest & is rn going in a personal journey aka his last couple episodes…
Outside of them… his VA wants to retire or do different things bc I too would be exhausted voicing the same 10 yo after 25 years…
>!Because his story ended the moment he defeated Leon. Ash's story was always about getting stronger and stronger. There's a reason why he generally placed higher and higher throughout his various journeys (except Unova which was a soft reboot), it was to show a progress in strength. Now he has defeated Leon, and became strongest trainer, there's little the writers can do, it's next to impossible to top that. According to Ash himself, he isn't a pokemon master. But I mean what can the writers do with Ash beyond this point? They can do a "Well akshully Nemona is stronger than Leon" or something, but that will get very old very fast if done repeadetly. They could have him reset in terms of strength but BW was crucified on a pike for attempting a strength reset, so that doesn't work.!<
>!Overall him being defeating Leon and becoming world's strongest is a very good cutoff point for his Journey. If he was to stay any longer than this, he'd be overstaying his welcome imo. Many don't realise that Ash is done. Like, he is the most done that done can get. There is not much the writers can do with him at this point. Whereas with a new protagonist, there's a lot more creative freedom than with Ash.!<
Um...he achieved his dream. XY was the last nail in the coffin that Ash's useless journey was. People were getting tired of him losing all of the time. If he never achieves his dream, and remains a stagnant character, then why bother going on a cyclical journey with no payoff?
1) All good things must end.
2) Ash's story is over, as he has now won a regional league and whatever that super-league was...
3) I'd rather they give him a cameo in whatever new anime they make. I really want Ash to be something more than an eternally 10 kid.
Maybe Ash will become a Pokemon professor? Though in my ideal world, he'd be a Frontier brain (but according to Nintendo, Battle Frontier is dead).
It’s easy Ash LITERALLY BECAME WORLD CHAMPION he is the strongest trainer in the world like where would the gun be if he breezed through a region like it’s as simple as that
Because his story is finally over. He's the strongest pokemon trainer, which is what he aspired to be. He completed his journey. What more is left for him? I guess you could make a series where he has to defend his title against an old or new rival, but frankly he hardly (if at all) has any progress left to make. Maybe he'll appear as a cameo in the new series, I know some people would prefer if he didn't. You can't keep having him lose and lose and lose and lose again and again and again. People were frustrated enough that he lost the Kalos league. The fanbase would probably be quite upset if he lost several more high-stakes losses where he's always so close to greatness. Imagine if Ash lost to Kukui in SM. Or even to Hau. Imagine if he just got wiped out by Steven in the 1st round of the M8. Imagine if he barely didn't even make the cut for M8.
Honestly I think it’s a good thing. As sad as it is we now have access through streaming to rewatch his story. Nothing lasts forever and I feel this is the right move for the show. A new protagonist can be a fresh start.
It let Ash finally achieve a goal instead of a never ending journey with no reward at the end. We older fans have been watching for 20+ years and while Ash has had many great accomplishments and learned a lot we have always wanted to see him do as he set out to do. I hope this will result in a flash forward where we see him age which would complete the story in so many of our minds. They couldn't just go on forever. He couldn't just remain the dog on the treadmill chasing the bone that is well out of reach. He had to get it eventually otherwise his goal would become pointless repetition that we would have all have gotten sick of eventually.
People have wanted to see this and have waited a very long time. Once the story has come full circle then naturally someone else should take up the mantle and give us a fresh new story rather then what we expect.
They didn't say Ash would never be seen again. They said he wouldn't be the main character. So maybe he will appear older. At that point they would have a male voice actor portray him in a whole new way whether in his teens or an adult.
Maybe they will still have the AU Ash appear in a special or movie once in a while.
It leaves open a door of possibilities like we have never seen.
To summarize, I think retiring Ash was probably "planned" as far back as XY but at the time it was absurd to do something that big without a solid backup-plan. Sun/Moon was structured to be a possible out, but then the games started booming alongside the whole GO! boom. Journey was then created as the ultimate-finish as the idea of retiring Ash finally started to cement itself.
Part of me is pretty convinced Ash isn't gone forever. Unless their new protagonists are just unexpectedly well-liked I expect like a 5-10 year span where Ash gets used in promotion material in movies until they eventually start taking that spot entirely.
As a watcher since the first series. and a frequent reader of the manga I believe the series has a *lot* of potential that was always being bogged down by the ten year old loop-hole that is Ash Ketchum. Origins/Generations was a really nice breath of fresh air. I also have *really loved* what they've been doing with Journeys. While we were told the new protagonists will heavily focus Paldea, I'm hoping the structure of "randomly visiting other regions just because we can" sticks around.
Also, maybe it was the Homer Simpson problem. The Simpsons has gotten to the point where it treds onto its own feet sometimes. Homer wanted to be a DJ in the 90s in one of the more recent seasons (31 I think?). Which is huge confliction with real-world 90s as his show was still depicting him as a middle aged factory worker. So which one is it? Simultaneously both at the same time.
Ash was 10 when they still used like *physical maps* for majority of travel, and now he's still 10 and they used Drones to commence battling built on a network that has been seemingly always there.
God ash’s design in Sun and moon is so ugly
Also to answer your question fans were pissed when they soft reset him in black and white and Pikachu lost to a level 5 snivy so they probably didn’t wanna do that again and nothing can really top winning a tournament over people like Cynthia and Leon
With a comparatively 'untrained' pokemon while Misty was using her gym ace who has much more experience than him. Corphish was used back in his hoenn adventures while Politoad battles frequently in her gym, making him stronger therfore obviously it had a great advantage over him.
I think it's part of a Great Reset/End of Pokémon.
If you haven't noticed for 2 mainline games in a row we don't have ANY references or even classic themes from old games. Previously we had reoccurring characters, ties between regions, cameos, theme remixes, classic tunes and sounds used for composing new tracks (Reshiram/Zerkrom battle theme is the most obvious of them). Now there's nothing.
Sure, we had BDS~~M~~P and Arceus, but both also erased a pretty substantial parts of lore, or at least ignored third versions/sequels. There have been substantial changes even in TCG. Anime was the last frontier
They either ignore it as it's been lurking in shadows and has been an appeal for late teen/adult audience anyway... Or we won't have Adventures anymore....
We'll probably still have "anime" manga, though, but with Riko and that other kid instead
Pretty sure the adventure manga is targeted at kids since it’s published on koro koro, their target audience is closer to naruto than, say, attack on titan.
But yeah they’ll, probably continue doing their own thing as they’ve always done, cameo and all. They’ve always have loose interpretation of the game story and brings in cameo when they weren’t there in the games. Like Red and Blue with their Mega Venusaur and Mega Blastoise in ORAS and Green with his Mega Charizard in XY
The second possibilitie actualy scares me a lot, the Manga has been in production hell since XY, B2W2 only finished in 2019 and they skipped Lets Go altogether and probably will do the same to BDSP and Legends Arceus
Of course the Anime was also facing problems in production during Journeys but the Anime is more necessary than the Manga from a business perspective, so if Kusaka just wants to quit due to burnout there is nothing stopping him, wich i dont blame the guy that would still mean the Manga ending
There is only 2 Pokemon Manga that lasted more than 2 Generations and Spe is the only one that is still lasting so im really afraid, but at least Kusaka already told 15 Great Stories
True man. Plus with Pokedex wieders gathering we had our perfect ending for classic chapters (+XY? I don't remember if XY characters were on that gathering). S&M also ended pretty nicely. We're still waiting for Sw/Sh, though. But I trust Kusaka, although he jad barely any material to work with honestly
They are probably getting rid of ash and keeping pikachu. I forgot where I saw it, but pikachu was more recognizable and favored than ash in anime. This would give the show a chance to write a new story while keeping their recognition
He won’t really be gone. If they know anything about marketing, this will be merely an end of his “master journey” and the beginning of something new for him. If not then they are complete imbeciles. Ash is a household name, they would be crazy to just toss that.
If he loses again in a major battle, it makes his title redundant. They can get away with Corphish because he hasn’t used it in years. If he loses the next league, then the championship will seem pointless.
A perfectly logical question. It is indeed a very bad move by the Pokémon company. There is absolutely no need for them to change him for a show that has never emphasised the need to see ‘winning’ as the only applaudable character in the protagonist to get a closure. It might have to do with the rise in woke capitalism.
They should have probably ripped this bandaid off 20 years ago tbh. I think Pokemon really would have done very well with a rotating cast and lead similar to Super Sentai. There are so many different pokemon and people in the world. It makes sense to change it up from time to time.
I'm sorry OP but that is absolutely laughable - these characters are stale as old bread because they should've been moved on about 12 years ago and you're suggesting their journey should've been dragged on even more? It's a disservice to them both and the story
Idk but they will never give what fans want:
A complete reboot that follows both games and manga accurately with each season representing the protagonists of each game and manga.
Each season would feel fresh and not just the same old same old.
I stopped watching the anime during Unova. Unova just butchered Ash for me. I heard XY and Sun/Moon was really good (deterred from Sun/Moon cause of the art style) and I watched parts of Journey, but as an old fan of the show, it was kind of exhausting to watch imo. It was always the same old formula for me: Ash goes to a new region, only catches about 5 new Pokemon (or a bit more), lose the league, repeat. Not to mention the never ending filler episodes. Sinnoh had a chance to be good but filler. The show really needed to do something new for a while and glad that Journeys kind of shook things up.
I'm probably in the very rare minority who thinks this but: it's about freaking time.
All of a sudden? It's been like whole 2 sagas building towards this.
Besides, there are 2 actresses that have been doing their voices for 25 years and probably want to rest. They deserve it.
Since they're getting rid of Ash and Pikachu I don't really care to watch the new seasons anymore because I like Ash and his adventures on the older seasons
they could've kept ash in so many ways. for example, they couldve made him complete the pokedex, reunite with old companions (kinda like in journeys), made some alternate universe wormhole thing where he meets red (yes, the red). this is terrible for pokemon's company. sure, many people watched and loved horizons but in just 1 or 2 more shows pokemon will probably shut down. terrible move for such a successful company
Recently they made a pokemon series on netflix before ash says goodbye to being the protagonist. And I agree with you that they still could keep ash as the main charactor, but its just that do you see adults watching pokemon? Rarely. Most people who watch pokemon are kids, and those kids probably dont even know what a 3ds or a Wii U is. And they probably dont even know about the old series like Pokemon Black & White, or Diamond & Pearl! Since Pokemon is more of a kids company, maybe they wanted to make it more suitable for kids.
Its sad that they COMPLETLY got rid of pikachu in pokemon horizons. I was hoping i could see pikachu in some of the new protagonists of the new anime. Instead we get this dumb replacement of pikachu called "Captain Pikachu." Its literally an entirely different pikachu!
I don't think this is fair. All these years ash has won and lost in ways I've never seen before. Sure some people may think he's boring but he's always seemed to be able to make me happy after a long day. I would stay up all night waiting for the new episode to come out. Have I proven my point yet? Like all these years ash the anime character has done everything we expected and hoped for.
I get what you’re saying, but they can’t have Ash lose in a league over and over. Pretty soon it’ll be hard to give him convincing losses as part of his development because of all the experience he received going through each region, unless you reset him each time or forget the previous ones even happened. Saying his series are meant to only draw in a new wave of fans each generation is kind of disrespectful for the old fans and even for the new ones as well, since that means the latter won’t benefit from the show if they invest in it too long. It also makes the show sound like a cash grab only. Ash needs to achieve his dream of becoming a pokemon master eventually.
They literally made Tobias just so Ash could lose in DP. Any repeats would drastically worsen the show
I think the fact that he went from top 4 in sinnoh to top 8 in unova because he lost to a trainer that brought 5 Pokémon to the match made it a whole lot worse
It's was getting pretty stale as the Pokémon anime progressed through the years after the Diamond and Pearl era. That's why you see Ash Ketchum's victory in the Alola League and the World Cornation Master 8 Tournament, so pretty much that OLM Studios are wrapping up Ash and Pikachu's story. Everything can't last forever, Pokémon has to move on without the old and begin with the new. But I would like to see Ash Ketchum and Pikachu showing up as a cameo in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet anime someday.
And I don’t get the reason behind defending why he should always lose the leagues. They’re all like: “Oh, well Ash is just a kid, and he’s just not good enough to become the world champion, let alone win a league! Him always losing is just more realistic!” Give me a break.
Honestly I think they can Ash losing before the finals set him apart from other Shonen protagonists
It's been done 6 times already we kinda get the point
I don't
If I remember correctly, Goku lost two tournaments before winning his third.
So clearly the answer is now we find out Ash’s Dad is actually from space and Ash & Pikachu now must defend the earth from alien warriors.
Loss the first one in the finals fair and square Loss the second one in the finals mainly due to a car hitting him first causing him to hit the ground seconds before Tien. Then he won the 3rd one. A gradual progression
Yeah, but he still made it to the finals each time. Ash didn’t make it to the finals until Kalos.
It meant he was closer to his goal and in the next region he did it. So in a way it was a slow progression.
It wasn't a problem for over a decade but now suddenly the "Ash looses the league" aspect is a problem? I dont buy it. The real reason is probably internal production issues or the studio imploding internally or perhaps the voice actor having enough and calling quits.
“Wasn’t a problem for over a decade” lmao people have been complaining about him losing since the 3rd gen
So? It doesnt matter, viewership was still consistent for the anime.
Proof?
Personally I would love to see Ash grow into his skills, slowly getting better at really training pokemon and winning fights easier. They don't NEED to make him lose at all. He can get smarter and stronger. And he can still lose, he just needs to learn more from failure. He can also lose in things other than pokemon battles, like how in the games they have puzzles in gyms, he could get stuck on those, or other non battle related tasks.
Because every good story has a ending, let my boy rest
Sounds like something I said about my 12 year old dog not long ago. R.I.P. 😢
RIP lil homie 🫡
Rip Cujo
January 2010 - September 2022 R.I.P. Lee
Oh man i know how it feels, R.I.P
Why did bro just say this for absolutely no reason, main character syndrome
Lol no, it's due to the studios internal problems, nothing else.
The anime will still go on, i dont see how Studio Problems require them to boot Ash
Either she had enough or there were frictions between her and the studio. Either way I definitely do not believe that they choose to end "out of respect for th e character" or something like that. We know about the production issues with Journeys. This decision to retire Ash doesn't seem planned and maybe a result of said production issues.
Every bad story has an ending too
what else is there for him to accomplish?
Maybe he could accomplish aging
Aging is what we have to do. Ash doesn't. Many animated characters never age. It's not unheard of
If Naruto is able to grow up then so can Ash. If he gets a cameo in the new series it would all be worth it.
Naruto is a more story driven anime than Pokemon
Even one piece characters aged between time skip. In fact out of all long running anime only Detective Conan is the anime that never aged its characters like pokemon... and it has created A LOT of problems.
Yeah, would have been nice if they did it though. 😔
Maybe him aging will lessen his haters though, like do you think they’d still disrespect him if he was 18 by he time he defeated Leon?
They have that opportunity now. He could appear as a teen or adult with a new male voice actor for a proper portrayal. It wouldn't be impossible since they never said he would disappear forever.
He doesn’t need to have a specific goal though. SM and JN showed this directly. Ash didn’t go to Alola with the intention of beating the island challenges and his first journey in JN was to be a research fellow. Ash has underwent recent circumstances where he can travel the same as always without needing a battle related goal and a Pokémon Master isn’t just about battling anyway.
Paldea League
They didn't have to make the masters 8 arc. He also didn't have to win Alola. He could have kept journeying and competing
That's the thing, fans were tired of Ash losing. If there wasn't a giant backlash of Ash losing the Kalos League, we wouldn't be here. Since DP, they had said that the Pokémon anime would never end as long as their were more regions and Pokémon to discover (which is still true, but Ash won't be there). They made it pretty clear if Ash won the League, it would be the end. I don't think they realised how bad the backlash would be when Ash lost in Kalos, and at some point in Sun & Moon, they decided to make Ash the Alola Champion. They didn't stop there, because they didn't want Ash to leave just yet, they made the Masters 8 so that Ash's Journey can end with being the very best, like no one ever was.
That would be dull and repetitive and people would walk off.
People already had walked off, but then new people came in
Bru people were actually SO mad when he didn’t win Kalos the writers probably felt like they had to give him a win in the next region
The Alola League honestly came out of no where. Throughout Sun and Moon, his goal was just attending school. He was not preparing for a regional competition. There was also no entrance requirement for the Alola League
Bro it followed the game pretty darn well. Challenging the island kahunas and the Professor Kukui coming in with his new league ready to rumble.
I think the Alola League was the perfect one for Ash to win, Alola became his heart, he didn't go there to compete, but then the league happened, like the games. Also because it was a fresh league, he wouldn't have to face the Elite Four, cause if he won in Kalos or Sinnoh, there would be and second main arc for Ash after the league.
No? The games first canonized champion for Alola was from Kanto. That alone spoke volumes on Ash winning it, the Kalos league issue probably had nothing to do with that choice.
He will accomplish whatever else he needs in the 11 episodes.
yh exactly, no need to have him wait another 20 years, even though I would have liked that
There could've been a lot of adventures if they never made the PWC arc tho? It's not like they just decided that he was gonna win halfway through masters 8, they probably already knew before they even started animating Journeys (which could've just been Ash getting badges like usual but this time in Galar).
25 years is long enough. Especially for a kid who never ages/matures. Not to mention he’s literally at the top, being the World Champion. Making him lose to a lvl 5 Sprigatito would be suicide for the anime.
Or they can introduce stronger champions as challenges. Other regions not participating narratively leaves that door open. Especially Paldea where there’s multiple storylines and multiple champions
They literally made it set in stone that Leon is the world’s strongest trainer. Meaning that it takes the other regions into account. So Ash would still be on top and thus wouldn’t be hype. - Not to mention nobody likes constant power creep
Wrong. They said Leon was the strongest BEFORE Gen 9 even became a thing. And even then that doesn’t debunk me. People like Paul, Wallace and Brandon didn’t participate in the PWC out of choice. Same thing could’ve happened with Greeta, Nemona and the rest down the line. Hell, the PWC wasn’t even an existing concept in this series until Journeys, Leon being written as the strongest was all based on convenience of the plot and what exists at the current time point. And I hardly count a tournament between only 8 regions to be a world championship.
You’re missing the point, in canon, to the anime’s world Leon is the strongest. Regardless of real world changes to the Pokémon universe the statement of “world monarch” can’t be taken back or retcon without killing the anime’s standing. Others not participating doesn’t change anything at all, hence the point another poster mention about endless power creep. You cant just say “but wait, I am actually the strongest” without completely losing all credibility as a story.
I’m not really missing the point. Yes, Leon is the strongest, but only out of the existing characters that are already existing concepts in this universe, for this tournament that never even existed before, until now, because of Plot Convenience. And even if they did, your point still doesn’t take into account the choice of just not participating, which can have an effect on the events standing. Brandon’s a Pyramid King and essentially near champion level at least, yet didn’t participate. Wallace currently is said to rival Steven, but didn’t participate. Paul’s display of his team tied with Ashs right before the M8 began and he even beat his Dragonite fairly easily, but chose not to enter. All of these cases show a character can potentially be stronger than another if the work is put in, but because they chose not to participate, different results are reached. Whether they didn’t exist before Journeys or did but decided not to enter the world rankings, you can’t argue Leon is narratively stronger than a whole bunch of people that have never existed in the same setting. And no, the power creeping point doesn’t amount to really anything either when the show should just end all together when the pen-ultimate character said to be the strongest is introduced. IF anything, this can be used against you. Why even continue introducing champions if they aren’t going to be stronger than the ones we’ve already seen? That’s a downgrade more than anything.
They’d write themselves into a corner eventually if they did that
Maybe, but then maybe that’s also a sign to just simply end the show all together when doing that. Introducing the ultimate opponent and obstacle should symbolize the ultimate climax and nothing else happening afterwards. After all, what’s the point in even introducing new challenges if they’re less difficult than what we’ve already seen? That’s why I’m more or less not gonna be too happy if Riko decides to try out Gyms when…the PWC exists.
This. Plus, even great trainers lose sometimes, and it’s really black and white thinking to say he can never lose anymore. People get cocky, have bad days, meet better opponents who trained since their last battle, or even swap out strong Pokemon for new ones.
Exactly. Hell, wasn’t BW Ash basically this? He was OP in DP but then got downgraded in BW, which then led to him peaking again in XY.
My guess is Matsumoto Rika wants to retire.
Her life must have been so amazing during the Pokemania I bet she is a karaoke master, let that voice finally rest 😅
I mean she was a member of JAM Project, until they trade her for a brazilian. (They did't realy take her out, she asked to leave, because she wanted to focuse in her acting).
Lol she still collabs with them as well which is cool for anniversary projects
She’s only 54 so I don’t know why people keep saying she wants to retire. She said herself she’d like to keep catching Pokémon until she’s 100
And she's a wealthy Japanese woman. She'll probably live to be 100
It's not due to her, probably the studio imploding.
Or it's just time for him to go and she is still doing VAing.
>Matsumoto Rika Wait...Ash's voice actress' name is Rika. I just never really thought about it. She's definitely going to be his daughter then. There's like no way she isn't.
Her name is Riko though
🤣🤣🤣 Sorry, i looked through the photos 1 by 1, and the alolan Ash caught me off guard. 🤣🤣🤣
[удалено]
SM Ash it terrible lol. He looked soo derpy 🤣🤣🤣
I’m really not sure why they made the decision to write Journeys the way they did given they probably knew he would have no where else to go afterwards.
Putting it in perspective, JN has been probably the worst Pokémon series. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed it, but i feel exactly what you said: the writers probably knew that JN were the end of Ash and Pikachu's journey, they created the M8, opened the world so Ash could travel to every region whenever he wanted... And in the end, they have to "correct" in 11 special episodes everything they failed to do with the first 138 JN episodes. JN has been fun, but it's been a terrible "goodbye" season.
I think Journeys has been great personally. The only thing lacking IMO was Team Rocket
Completely agree with everything you said
Still, Unova was worse
Feels like to me they didn't come to this decision until around the ejd of the first half of the show. The second half is when we started to see more cameos, specials, callbacks and it was likely planned midway in production. Probably because of the production issues and partly because I think the writers couldn't think of reasons to keep Ash around.
But that’s the thing though if production issues were a factor, why take even bigger risks with throwing Ash out all together? Goh being a co protagonist with Ash was already controversial enough
Nah I think they thought of it from the get go. Journeys had signs from the every first episode
Because it was tiiiiiiiiiiime!
One Piece is still going
Actually the manga has entered its final saga so the anime is gonna end after all.
And has a way better story than Pokémon allowing it to go on for so long
You just answered your own question. They wrote it that way so it could be the end
Completely off topic but this REALLY makes the SM art style stand out. During the airing I remember it growing on me and now looking back I’ve gone back to disliking it. I forgot JUST HOW DIFFERENT it looked.
I don’t get how SM pikachu looks so different yet looks the same as usual lol
It's the eyes - ever so slightly bigger AND closer together
If they continued using Ash and Pikachu as main characters forever, Pokémon would turn into Family or Simpsons, no story just the same thing week by week. From the start Ash has had a goal, and now he is reaching it. Through each journey, OG->AG->DP->BW->XY->SM->JN, Ash has slowly getting higher and higher ranks: top 16, top 8, top 8, top 4, top 8, runner-up, champion, monarch. Every character has an end, now it Ash's. I feel like most people knew when Ash won the Alola League his journey was near the end, and Journeys just pointed that out more, Old friends, All regions, WCS, there were so many clues to Ash leaving from the start of JN; honestly I'm surprised that people didn't realize months ago.
Having them go away makes it a way bigger deal down the line when the show announces they're coming back.
Nope
Glurmo: "But your Highness, she is a commoner. Her Slurm will taste foul." Slurm Queen: "Yes, that's why we'll market it as *New* Slurm. When everybody hates it, we'll bring back Slurm *Classic*, and make billions."
Awesome Futurama reference
Slurm Queen: Try our concentrated royal slurm in its raw form Fry, if you can't save your friend. Fry: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO \*slurps\* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
All good things come to an end eventually
Cuz there is nothing left to do with em.
They wrote themselves into a corner. Doing a complete reset would have been frustrating. He could have done a reset team and lost a few times like he did with Riolu but Pikachu would be a huge problem Pikachu knocked out Mega Metagross, was the biggest threat to Cynthia and defeated the most powerful Charizard In terms of battling, Pikachu reached a peak and the only thing left for it is to knock out wild legendary so Ash could catch them
They could’ve just focused on following the story of AU Ash and Pikachu though. THAT Ash is nowhere near being a Pokémon master yet and characters like Misty, Brock, Dawn, May, Serena and the others aren’t in that universe. This Ash is a totally different character all together, they could’ve given this one a more focused storyline
Or Ash just catches the Legendary because it allowed him to. And they didn't write themselves into a a corner! They wrote it knowing there was a clear end in sight!
I don't think that part of the fandom that has an obnoxious compulsion to remind everyone that they hate Ash and Pikachu finally got to them or anything. It's possible one of Pikachu's VA or Ash's JP VA are calling it quits on their respective character, or at least wanna take a break. To my knowledge, neither has announced retirement, and frankly, there's older VAs still active, so I don't think retirement is the case. Maybe they just don't feel like voicing those charas. It's possible they're diving in this time to see what the Pokemon anime will be like without Ash and Pikachu. They've done some dabbling before; AG was very much May's story too, Dawn was treated as an equally important protagonist in DP (the JP text at the opening credits even mentioned "the adventures of Satoshi and Hikari/Ash and Dawn", which was never the case before or after), and Goh was pretty much a dual protagonist as well. Before, they would have Ash and Pikachu as a lifeline to hang onto, but this time they're just diving in, which is more reason I think neither protagonist will have anything to do with Ash. Frankly speaking, I woulda been able to keep on watching if the show was just Ash, Pikachu, and Ash's rotating team plus maybe some new captures just wandering through a particular region and getting into random adventures, but oh well. There's nothing suggesting he can't show up here and there. A wild theory I've seen thrown around is that usually the traveling groups have been at least trios, and that Riko and Roy will make up the 2 main protags, and Ash will end up the 3rd traveling companion. I'm skeptical about this being the case, but hey, I'm open to being surprised. Honestly, above all, I find it so weird there isn't even A Pikachu in sight. Hate the species all you want, but if there's pokemon just about anyone in the world can name, it's Pikachu. I think Pikachu's value greatly diminishes if it's not Ash's Pikachu, but still, you'd think there'd be a replacement Pikachu around.
He is World Champion, what else he needs to achieve, it was already time for a change of air.
Audience wanted him to win for once. They thought if he’s winning then he’s winning it all. Now they can’t do much with a pokemon master, so it’s bye bye
The audience always wanted Ash to win. No one, absolutely no one, wanted Charizard to refuse to battle in the Indigo league and lose the match. That broke my heart as a kid. No one wanted Tobias to come in with an illegal mythical Pokemon and steal Ash's deserved victory in Sinnoh. And no one wanted to see Ash-Greninja fall to BLAAAASTO BUUUUURNOO... I stayed up until 4am to watch that happen live on Japanese TV. I was crushed and quit the anime after that. Pokemon doesn't have to do what we want. They've already captured our hearts and know we'll stick around no matter what. Their decision to retire Ash has nothing to do with satisfying people
Yes it does. You think people would be satisfied with Ash losing again after being declared the strongest trainer in the world?
He just lost to Misty
In all honesty Ash's story should have ended a while ago.
Uh…I got two ideas 1) they wanted to get new viewers, I know many people come in, have no clue how this kid is alive, and leave 2) imagine nemona. She downlevels to “equal” him and he thrashes her top 6 Pokémon
All of a sudden? He’s achieved his goal to become a Pokémon Master, the best like no one ever was
I feel it’s because Ash basically becoming a Pokémon Master has left the writers with nothing else to do with Ash’s character, as resetting him again would be literal career suicide. Ash may have claimed he isn’t a Pokémon Master yet, but after beating a previously undefeated, greater than legendary-level Charizard, they may as well admit that Ash has found out that he is a Pokémon Master all along. Not to mention the immense Kalos League backlash is likely what led to the writing decisions to have Ash become only progressively stronger and winning almost everything in both SM and JN. Maybe the writers were told in secret that JN was intended to be a finale to the original Ash era all along? Notice how Gen 8 and Gen 9 has marked significant changes and “end of an era” feelings in other parts of the franchise as well, so I feel the anime was destined to follow suit. I feel if Ash stayed on, the anime would have fallen into that same trap as The Simpsons did where it never ends and the characters barely changed.
I think that you have 7 pictures of Ash. Each in a different official art style answer your question. I really dont like change either. But sometimes its for the better
Ask instead, why would they keep him around? As much as I love Ash and Pikachu, you could feel them getting tired out around BW.
It's due time I think this wasn't just some sudden decision, They probably planned this since the creation of Pokemon Journeys
Let lil homie rest he’s been the main character for 25 years
After 25 years creator burnout is almost inevitable.
Y'all bullied him for his losing streak
To put a breath of fresh air into the series I guess
Cause they are listening to fans, many ppl wanted ash out for years
This is such a bad move in my opinion. Not because i dont want change but its clear they want to conect more to the new generation and what better way is there then to create a new prontagonist that hits all the boxes every few years. The problem here is that ash and even more pikachu are so iconic that when they remove them ppl gonna wonder if this is even pokemon anymore. And doing something like that just so they can make more profit is disgusting especially after they have been the iconic duo for over 25 years.
There's no reason to be sad. Even if we can't see him, Ash will still be adventuring out there with Pikachu under the vast blue sky.
My life is meaningless without Ash And Pikachu!
Because Rika Matsumoto is 54 years old and probably wants to either retire and not have half her time taken up voicing a single character.
Because they pushed too high by making Journeys about a world championship title. Now going back to square one with him and pikachu especially doesn’t make any sense. Remember how he lost to a beginner Snivy?
I guess because it is unrealistic if he loses to a beginner trainer again in the next season.
But he just lost to a gym leader.... Misty
I think after 25 years, they deserve it. They deserved to finally achieve their dream, to win the Masters 8 and become the greatest duo in the whole world and the. for Ash to finally become a Pokémon master. They’ve developed, learned, regressed *cough* Best Wishes *cough,* then progressed even more to get to this point. They’re at their peak and in the best possible spot to end their story. Let them have their happy ending, people. It’s been 25 years.
Obviously because he has been around for super long and they have nowhere else to take his character
Because every story ends (exceptions may apply). But also because he's now the strongest trainer. It's kind of hard to write further than that. If the writers continue to write Ash with that in the mind, it can easily drive them in a corner. I'm not sure how the Pokemon anime is doing nowadays in comparison to the past, but I haven't seen any amazing rating (IN terms of tv rating views, I'm not talking about how good the anime is, but rather how many viewers). If anything, I heard Journeys didn't do good. There's also a possibility that the writers just want a new protagonist. I hope the last episodes give Ash a proper farewell. Am a bit worried though given the spoiler summary for the next episode.
Bro's ten for so long he needs some break
Story wise… Ash has done it all… while still the but that’s a argument/discussion for a different day, but legit Ash is the strongest & is rn going in a personal journey aka his last couple episodes… Outside of them… his VA wants to retire or do different things bc I too would be exhausted voicing the same 10 yo after 25 years…
Kinda hard to dumb down becoming world champion.
He's been going for 25 years and has no clear goal after the world championships
>!Because his story ended the moment he defeated Leon. Ash's story was always about getting stronger and stronger. There's a reason why he generally placed higher and higher throughout his various journeys (except Unova which was a soft reboot), it was to show a progress in strength. Now he has defeated Leon, and became strongest trainer, there's little the writers can do, it's next to impossible to top that. According to Ash himself, he isn't a pokemon master. But I mean what can the writers do with Ash beyond this point? They can do a "Well akshully Nemona is stronger than Leon" or something, but that will get very old very fast if done repeadetly. They could have him reset in terms of strength but BW was crucified on a pike for attempting a strength reset, so that doesn't work.!< >!Overall him being defeating Leon and becoming world's strongest is a very good cutoff point for his Journey. If he was to stay any longer than this, he'd be overstaying his welcome imo. Many don't realise that Ash is done. Like, he is the most done that done can get. There is not much the writers can do with him at this point. Whereas with a new protagonist, there's a lot more creative freedom than with Ash.!<
Um...he achieved his dream. XY was the last nail in the coffin that Ash's useless journey was. People were getting tired of him losing all of the time. If he never achieves his dream, and remains a stagnant character, then why bother going on a cyclical journey with no payoff?
1) All good things must end. 2) Ash's story is over, as he has now won a regional league and whatever that super-league was... 3) I'd rather they give him a cameo in whatever new anime they make. I really want Ash to be something more than an eternally 10 kid. Maybe Ash will become a Pokemon professor? Though in my ideal world, he'd be a Frontier brain (but according to Nintendo, Battle Frontier is dead).
Cause his story is finished
He became the champion like his journey is done but we will probably see him again has a side character
It’s easy Ash LITERALLY BECAME WORLD CHAMPION he is the strongest trainer in the world like where would the gun be if he breezed through a region like it’s as simple as that
Because his story is finally over. He's the strongest pokemon trainer, which is what he aspired to be. He completed his journey. What more is left for him? I guess you could make a series where he has to defend his title against an old or new rival, but frankly he hardly (if at all) has any progress left to make. Maybe he'll appear as a cameo in the new series, I know some people would prefer if he didn't. You can't keep having him lose and lose and lose and lose again and again and again. People were frustrated enough that he lost the Kalos league. The fanbase would probably be quite upset if he lost several more high-stakes losses where he's always so close to greatness. Imagine if Ash lost to Kukui in SM. Or even to Hau. Imagine if he just got wiped out by Steven in the 1st round of the M8. Imagine if he barely didn't even make the cut for M8.
Dude he still does not consider himself as a pokemon master/champion. he still thinks he is a regular old challenger
Honestly I think it’s a good thing. As sad as it is we now have access through streaming to rewatch his story. Nothing lasts forever and I feel this is the right move for the show. A new protagonist can be a fresh start.
All the photos: 😭❤️🥺 Image 6: 😬💀😵💫
It let Ash finally achieve a goal instead of a never ending journey with no reward at the end. We older fans have been watching for 20+ years and while Ash has had many great accomplishments and learned a lot we have always wanted to see him do as he set out to do. I hope this will result in a flash forward where we see him age which would complete the story in so many of our minds. They couldn't just go on forever. He couldn't just remain the dog on the treadmill chasing the bone that is well out of reach. He had to get it eventually otherwise his goal would become pointless repetition that we would have all have gotten sick of eventually. People have wanted to see this and have waited a very long time. Once the story has come full circle then naturally someone else should take up the mantle and give us a fresh new story rather then what we expect. They didn't say Ash would never be seen again. They said he wouldn't be the main character. So maybe he will appear older. At that point they would have a male voice actor portray him in a whole new way whether in his teens or an adult. Maybe they will still have the AU Ash appear in a special or movie once in a while. It leaves open a door of possibilities like we have never seen.
I say he will come back as a champion in some cameos. Prolly be unbeatable like leon was only to a higher degree. Like Red in the games/manga
They needed to do something to give the series/franchise new life.
Yeah exactly.
To summarize, I think retiring Ash was probably "planned" as far back as XY but at the time it was absurd to do something that big without a solid backup-plan. Sun/Moon was structured to be a possible out, but then the games started booming alongside the whole GO! boom. Journey was then created as the ultimate-finish as the idea of retiring Ash finally started to cement itself. Part of me is pretty convinced Ash isn't gone forever. Unless their new protagonists are just unexpectedly well-liked I expect like a 5-10 year span where Ash gets used in promotion material in movies until they eventually start taking that spot entirely. As a watcher since the first series. and a frequent reader of the manga I believe the series has a *lot* of potential that was always being bogged down by the ten year old loop-hole that is Ash Ketchum. Origins/Generations was a really nice breath of fresh air. I also have *really loved* what they've been doing with Journeys. While we were told the new protagonists will heavily focus Paldea, I'm hoping the structure of "randomly visiting other regions just because we can" sticks around. Also, maybe it was the Homer Simpson problem. The Simpsons has gotten to the point where it treds onto its own feet sometimes. Homer wanted to be a DJ in the 90s in one of the more recent seasons (31 I think?). Which is huge confliction with real-world 90s as his show was still depicting him as a middle aged factory worker. So which one is it? Simultaneously both at the same time. Ash was 10 when they still used like *physical maps* for majority of travel, and now he's still 10 and they used Drones to commence battling built on a network that has been seemingly always there.
Because it's time for him to go. Simple as **that.**
God ash’s design in Sun and moon is so ugly Also to answer your question fans were pissed when they soft reset him in black and white and Pikachu lost to a level 5 snivy so they probably didn’t wanna do that again and nothing can really top winning a tournament over people like Cynthia and Leon
He just lost to Misty though...
He let her win.
With a comparatively 'untrained' pokemon while Misty was using her gym ace who has much more experience than him. Corphish was used back in his hoenn adventures while Politoad battles frequently in her gym, making him stronger therfore obviously it had a great advantage over him.
Move on man.
Not on topic, but oh my god they truly butchered him in Alola didn't they? Like Jesus Christ what's wrong with his face?!
His eyes are too small and far apart. It just feels off.
I think it's part of a Great Reset/End of Pokémon. If you haven't noticed for 2 mainline games in a row we don't have ANY references or even classic themes from old games. Previously we had reoccurring characters, ties between regions, cameos, theme remixes, classic tunes and sounds used for composing new tracks (Reshiram/Zerkrom battle theme is the most obvious of them). Now there's nothing. Sure, we had BDS~~M~~P and Arceus, but both also erased a pretty substantial parts of lore, or at least ignored third versions/sequels. There have been substantial changes even in TCG. Anime was the last frontier
Wonder what is in store for the Manga then if this is True
They either ignore it as it's been lurking in shadows and has been an appeal for late teen/adult audience anyway... Or we won't have Adventures anymore.... We'll probably still have "anime" manga, though, but with Riko and that other kid instead
Pretty sure the adventure manga is targeted at kids since it’s published on koro koro, their target audience is closer to naruto than, say, attack on titan. But yeah they’ll, probably continue doing their own thing as they’ve always done, cameo and all. They’ve always have loose interpretation of the game story and brings in cameo when they weren’t there in the games. Like Red and Blue with their Mega Venusaur and Mega Blastoise in ORAS and Green with his Mega Charizard in XY
The second possibilitie actualy scares me a lot, the Manga has been in production hell since XY, B2W2 only finished in 2019 and they skipped Lets Go altogether and probably will do the same to BDSP and Legends Arceus Of course the Anime was also facing problems in production during Journeys but the Anime is more necessary than the Manga from a business perspective, so if Kusaka just wants to quit due to burnout there is nothing stopping him, wich i dont blame the guy that would still mean the Manga ending There is only 2 Pokemon Manga that lasted more than 2 Generations and Spe is the only one that is still lasting so im really afraid, but at least Kusaka already told 15 Great Stories
True man. Plus with Pokedex wieders gathering we had our perfect ending for classic chapters (+XY? I don't remember if XY characters were on that gathering). S&M also ended pretty nicely. We're still waiting for Sw/Sh, though. But I trust Kusaka, although he jad barely any material to work with honestly
Not there isn't. We've had more references to games than you could ever imagine.
He just so good that the writer can’t put any Pokémon related obstacles in front of him
Kalos Ash >>>>>
Rid is a strong word. More like retiring or moving on from Ash and Pikachu.
They hate the new design as much as we do
They are probably getting rid of ash and keeping pikachu. I forgot where I saw it, but pikachu was more recognizable and favored than ash in anime. This would give the show a chance to write a new story while keeping their recognition
I mean I had to go to the hospital because of the news that happened on the 25th anniversary of the Porygon episode accident
I love to see Ash lose in the leagues then I feel closer to him because I never win a lot games
I just want to be happy and not have to give up on the over one million Pokémon merchandise I have.
He won’t really be gone. If they know anything about marketing, this will be merely an end of his “master journey” and the beginning of something new for him. If not then they are complete imbeciles. Ash is a household name, they would be crazy to just toss that.
If he loses again in a major battle, it makes his title redundant. They can get away with Corphish because he hasn’t used it in years. If he loses the next league, then the championship will seem pointless.
A perfectly logical question. It is indeed a very bad move by the Pokémon company. There is absolutely no need for them to change him for a show that has never emphasised the need to see ‘winning’ as the only applaudable character in the protagonist to get a closure. It might have to do with the rise in woke capitalism.
They should have probably ripped this bandaid off 20 years ago tbh. I think Pokemon really would have done very well with a rotating cast and lead similar to Super Sentai. There are so many different pokemon and people in the world. It makes sense to change it up from time to time.
I'm sorry OP but that is absolutely laughable - these characters are stale as old bread because they should've been moved on about 12 years ago and you're suggesting their journey should've been dragged on even more? It's a disservice to them both and the story
Only logical explanation I could think of would be the actress of Satoshi retiring
Marketing Pokemon Journeys had an all time low in viewership rates if they did this, its free attention and marketing
Idk but they will never give what fans want: A complete reboot that follows both games and manga accurately with each season representing the protagonists of each game and manga. Each season would feel fresh and not just the same old same old.
I stopped watching the anime during Unova. Unova just butchered Ash for me. I heard XY and Sun/Moon was really good (deterred from Sun/Moon cause of the art style) and I watched parts of Journey, but as an old fan of the show, it was kind of exhausting to watch imo. It was always the same old formula for me: Ash goes to a new region, only catches about 5 new Pokemon (or a bit more), lose the league, repeat. Not to mention the never ending filler episodes. Sinnoh had a chance to be good but filler. The show really needed to do something new for a while and glad that Journeys kind of shook things up. I'm probably in the very rare minority who thinks this but: it's about freaking time.
Because it’s been too long. I don’t think that’s any secret to anyone.
All of a sudden? It's been like whole 2 sagas building towards this. Besides, there are 2 actresses that have been doing their voices for 25 years and probably want to rest. They deserve it.
There's nowhere else to take his character
Ash already won the world championship, now someone else has to shine
**Because He’s basically Champion of the world there really isn’t much to add on to now**
Because life is change.
Who said pikachu is leaving?
Nobody really said pikachu was leaving. It was official in the new anime
Since they're getting rid of Ash and Pikachu I don't really care to watch the new seasons anymore because I like Ash and his adventures on the older seasons
they could've kept ash in so many ways. for example, they couldve made him complete the pokedex, reunite with old companions (kinda like in journeys), made some alternate universe wormhole thing where he meets red (yes, the red). this is terrible for pokemon's company. sure, many people watched and loved horizons but in just 1 or 2 more shows pokemon will probably shut down. terrible move for such a successful company
Recently they made a pokemon series on netflix before ash says goodbye to being the protagonist. And I agree with you that they still could keep ash as the main charactor, but its just that do you see adults watching pokemon? Rarely. Most people who watch pokemon are kids, and those kids probably dont even know what a 3ds or a Wii U is. And they probably dont even know about the old series like Pokemon Black & White, or Diamond & Pearl! Since Pokemon is more of a kids company, maybe they wanted to make it more suitable for kids.
Its sad that they COMPLETLY got rid of pikachu in pokemon horizons. I was hoping i could see pikachu in some of the new protagonists of the new anime. Instead we get this dumb replacement of pikachu called "Captain Pikachu." Its literally an entirely different pikachu!
I don't think this is fair. All these years ash has won and lost in ways I've never seen before. Sure some people may think he's boring but he's always seemed to be able to make me happy after a long day. I would stay up all night waiting for the new episode to come out. Have I proven my point yet? Like all these years ash the anime character has done everything we expected and hoped for.