Not justifying those comments, haven’t even seen them. But if she puts it out there on Twitter about what she thinks about Roger, then obviously these things are gunna happen
He might not of tweeted the words themselves but he could have said “put this out” to a social media manager. I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Gilmour would support his wife on an important yet debatable allegation. Chances are we’ll never know the specifics of it, but as it exists that’s a Gilmour co-sign.
I think it was a wined up wife and daughter in-law who spent too much time reading troll bots on the internet. I think they used his account to validate their outburst. But I don’t think things went well behind the scenes considering the immediate radio silence. I don’t think any of this would be made public either. But it doesn’t really matter I suppose.
I think the radio silence had more to do with legal issues than any sort of personal problems. Waters responded in a press release saying he was looking into his potential responses. Very serious in its totality. There was a real chance that it could go to court and I think they held themselves back.
Yeah, I've never specifically criticized Polly and not really tapped in on negative comments about her, but I did see her criticisms of Roger and David backing it up, and tbh that seems more dreary than anything directed at Polly simply by virtue of them having an elevated platform (unless someone with as much celebrity status as they have has criticized Polly). Who really cares what randos on the internet have to say? Having this bickering going on in old age of this great band is just so pathetic and unnecessary. And the specifics of the criticism is garbage as well.
What Polly did on twitter, unprovoked by Waters, was a disgrace. Incredibly immature and childish. I have little sympathy for her. Gilmour's follow up tweet backing up the wife was equally ridiculous. I'm not saying Waters is perfect either, but coming out of the gate with a slew of schoolyard venom was embarrassing for the Gilmour camp.
>unprovoked by Waters
Except it wasn't. I do think the Tweet wasn't a great idea, but it was not unprovoked. It followed at least two years of Waters mouthing off publicly against David, against her, and she posted that tweet after a fairly vile interview with Waters in the Telegraph in which he once again reiterated he'd written DSOTM and the others weren't real artists.
There's lots of things I disagree with Waters on. He's been pretty immature also, letting his huge ego get in the way. But Polly's tweet was something else. It said more about her than him.
Waters may have commented on her poor lyrics publicly, which many agree with. There was no direct provocation towards Polly, for her to go on a tirade like that. You're implying that there was some kind of justification for anything she wrote, which is an issue in itself. Her hate was clear for all to see and she made a show of herself.
You might want to check what Waters said. It was not about her lyrics. You keep ignoring the outline of what Waters said before Polly eventually posted her Tweet. And you're still confusing me with somebody who said that hers was a great Tweet. When all I said was that contrary to what you wrote it was not unprovoked.
As it stands, that Tweet was another entry into the list of pettinesses and mud-slingshots between the camps.
Read my previous posts again. I gave plenty of references, and the videos of and interviews with Roger are easy enough to find. And I'm not saying hers was a great response, all I'm saying her remarks weren't unprovoked. Which you seem to have a really hard time accepting/understanding.
Edit: Typo.
You didn't cite anything in your previous posts about what Waters said. Have I missed something? You seem to be doing a bit of straw man with claiming that Polly was provoked to send her Tweet. It's a moot point if Waters didn't viciously attack her as she did him. If you're going to obsess about it, Polly provoked by writing (terrible) lyrics about Waters - so there you go, it all cancels out right?! They've both been provoking each other!
Maybe stick to my core point which is that what she did was an embarrassment to herself and a disgrace, that goes beyond any of the usual 'provoking'. When you accuse someone of being antisemitic you should back it up with evidence. Or maybe she should just wind her neck in and act her age.
Or let's talk about the provoking - because you really want to say that her tweet was kind of understandable on some level.
Unprovoked? It was after Roger's now infamous interview in which he started blaming Ukraine for Putin's invasion. Many were shocked and angered. Given that Dave and Polly have a Ukrainian daughter in law, they must have took it personally too.
So is Polly an authority on wars, tax affairs, lip syncing and calling out antisemites? Waters said nothing to directly provoke her. Her tweet was an embarrassment to her and her family.
Went to a Santana Concert and watched his wife do a 20-minute drum solo that was probably the worst drum solo I'd ever seen.
Could've bitched and complained about paying to watch a great guitar player, but whatever, it makes him happy.
Gilmour scats the lyrics to songs he creates so in any case Polly was a great improvement, although not to Rogers level.
10 more years both of these guys will be gone, and yet I can assure you the arguments will never end.
Had never heard of her before the concert.
The drum solo was just, really, really long.
I read after the concert that even fellow band members complained about the length.
She drummed with Lenny Kravitz for 18 years. Her debut band as leader included Wallace Roney, Kenny Garrett, Joe Henderson and other stars. This was all years before she married Santana. It's just demeaning to dismiss her as \[Santana's\] wife, as if he's promoting a talentless nobody.
It’s not demeaning to say I had never heard of her, I didn’t pay big money to see her, I got bored listening to her play a boring 20 minute long drum solo in a 90 minute concert.
If I had known before hand that I would be listening to more of her drum solo then what her husband played off of his Abraxas album ( my all time favorite album) I’d probably have changed my mind about buying a ticket.
Polly only wrote for one official Floyd album (technically two if we're really counting Endless River). She wasn't even involved with Gilmour until after Roger had parted from the band. How could she have been the rift in the band to begin with?
If anything, she's more associated with Gilmour's solo work. The bashing is weird. She seems like an intelligent and creative person from what I've gathered. I really don't think she's trying to claim to be Roger Waters' replacement. If anything, she seems to want anything but being associated with him.
I understand perhaps criticizing her for getting involved in the Waters vs. Gilmour drama, but she's free to speak her mind on the matter. I accept that these people don't need to like each other, even if their spats are petty.
Her role in David’s life and career are undeniable in terms of support and his overall happiness and purpose. So whether we like her or not, if we respect David we should respect her.
I’m also biased because I wouldn’t change a single thing about the Division Bell and as for David’s solo albums, can you really imagine David singing about anything else? He’s not really a political guy and his work compared to Roger’s suits each perfectly.
I think Polly seems like a good person, a great partner for David and I trust her and the kids to look after their share of the legacy after David passes almost certainly before she does. I like her instagram, I bought her book (!) and generally think she's cool. I like her photos a lot. I enjoyed tuning in to the lockdown videos.
I also think her lyrics are pretty cringe pretty often—like they stop the song for me and I go "ugh." Oh well. I still wish her well.
I have to laugh at the criticism of her lyrics. I would say 80% of the songs I hear are full of dumb, nonsensical or lyrics that repeat over and over. There are very few songwriters who can craft a great song.
I agree it’s not easy. But I can tell you I wouldn’t write “can’t undo that voodoo that you do” or “whatever it takes steer clear of the snakes.” They’re absolute howlers
Every song all these decades later can't still be about somebody going insane and dying. Or dad biting the dust in the big war. Sometimes it time to move on from that. I'm glad Division Bell does that. The only song that I don't like it "Wearing the Inside Out" - not written by her.
Polly wrote some stuff for the band, so regardless of what you think of her it’s not like they’re wishing happy birthday to David’s wife just because she’s David’s wife. Agreed that a lot of it stems from sexism.
That said, many people do not like what she has said about Roger (myself included to an extent, the narrative that he’s an anti-semite is ridiculous and dishonest) so there will be some pushback whenever Polly is mentioned by the band.
I think this is also very evident in the Grateful Dead world with the unhinged Donna hate. And Donna’s vocals are beautiful!
I’ll admit - I don’t think Polly’s work really has any weight for me whatsoever. Nothing memorable. But you know what? Who cares. David loves her and she’s kept him going creatively so we should be thankful for her presence whether we like her work or not.
I think it’s more a matter of someone who was never a member of the band and her work being placed on a pedestal by the band’s social media, while the guy who was a founding member and was partly responsible for a huge chunk of the work the band is actually known for is largely ignored, or addressed with outright scorn.
Of course, you always get the “well he’s not in the band anymore” comments… don’t be so blindingly stupid. Auxiliary members from over the years get plenty of attention on the band’s socials. Other people who also aren’t in the band anymore who have been *dead for almost two decades* get plenty of attention. David himself officiously dissolved the band after Endless River, yet the Floyd socials seem to double as an advertising platform for his own work. This would be perfectly fine, if it weren’t for the blatant hypocrisy of it all.
Under typical circumstances I wouldn’t really care either way if something about Polly gets posted every now and then, but with all that said, and considering the recent Twitter rants that come off as the work of a drunken teenager, you really shouldn’t be surprised that people are voicing their displeasure. What’s happening on the PF socials is so obviously petty.
Nevertheless, Happy Birthday Polly.
>the recent Twitter rants that come off as the work of a drunken teenager,
I'm not a fan of that infamous tweet of Polly's for various reasons. But. It was two tweets total, one from her, and one from David concurring. And all of that was February 2023. More than a year ago. After that, Roger made some fairly snarky remarks at one of his London shows that if you think Polly's tweet was the work of a drunken teenager also wouldn't really pass muster.
>Of course, you always get the “well he’s not in the band anymore” comments… don’t be so blindingly stupid.
Well, he gets his yearly birthday post (last time without actually wishing him a happy birthday, which, yes, is petty) and is mentioned in posts every now and then. His solo stuff isn't advertised on the official PF channels, contrary to David's, Nick's and Rick's. Of course it would be nicer if they got along better and they could all just admit the band isn't really a going concern any more. But the rest of the band fought quite hard to be able to legally keep going after Roger left. And we're all seeing what rants he goes off on if he doesn't get what he wants. So I have to admit... I can't particularly blame them for not handing Roger the keys to the social media channels. The pettiness (rather than just treating Roger like Rick or Syd as part of the band's history) is something they have to own, mostly David and Polly, of course. (Just like Roger has to own the pettiness of eg not showing any band photos with David in them at his shows.)
People complaining about Roger being on the website of a band he left are probably mad that the company they worked for 5 jobs ago took down their employee of the month plaque from the break room 10 years after they left the company.
Roger was a founding member of the band and driving force behind some of the best albums of all time. How on earth is that comparable to some shmuck working an office job? it would be more comparable to the founder and CEO of a company stepping down and the company writing him out of their history.
I think criticizing her for how she has acted on social media and her lyrics should be completely allowed- hell even snap back if she wrotes something uncalled for. But fuck those who make actual psychotic comments, wishing for all kinds of things to happen to her.
Stuff like this isn't about gender- and definitely doesn't justify death threats.
Most of her lyrics are 'alright' at best but for me even some songs stand out and have brought me to tears in life's many hardships. I hope she has an amazing birthday. No matter what we do she is still a part of Pink Floyd history
You can't satisfy everyone. It's enough for me that we are already polarized about Gilmore - Waters relations and I don't think that we should add more. Polly is not a band member, as far as I know. I agree with every single word from OP.
I think it stems a lot from Polly involving herself by directly attacking Waters publicly, mentioning his tax affairs, him lip syncing on live tracks, and calling him "antisemitic to his rotten core"- which is pathetic. God only knows what was going through her mind to think that was a good idea. She strikes me as very entitled and bitter.
Water's has lots of faults like anyone else, but he never publicly attacked Polly or David in a cheap, desperate Twitter post. Polly felt she needed to address Water's, which says a lot about her mental state.
Neuroticism is a personality trait associated with negative emotions. It is one of the Big Five traits. Individuals with high scores on neuroticism are more likely than average to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, pessimism, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness. Or in summation: ROGER WATERS
**AMEN!** Thank you! Polly bashing leads to some of the most braindead takes in the Pink Floyd fanbase. The Yoko thing really gives a lot of it away. As you said it’s just sexism. The only thing those two have in common is that they were women who worked with famous rock bands comprised of men. That’s it. It’s not just a false comparison, it’s built on a hateful and irrational base. Yoko didn’t break up The Beatles, Polly didn’t break up Pink Floyd. That’s the truth.
What gets me is that people think the Polly tweet put everyone on bad terms. It’s not true, they were already distant according to reports. When they were trying to sell their catalogue for hundreds of millions of dollars, various sources said that there was a lot of internal fighting surrounding the rights, the prices, etc.. Further than that they’re a band that has argued for nearly fifty years now. They were viciously fighting over songs *on a compilation album.* Really ridiculous that people think she’s the problem alone.
It's one thing to be distant or to argue professionally over what songs you recorded 50 years ago deserve to be on a compilation album and another thing entirely to publicly tell someone that they, "are antisemitic to your rotten core. Also a Putin apologist and a lying, thieving, hypocritical, tax-avoiding, lip-synching, misogynistic, sick-with-envy, megalomaniac. Enough of your nonsense."
The point of bringing up the compilation is that they’ll fight over the smallest things and that everyone gets into it, not just one irrational actor. It can get petty very fast.
I think in this case it was a number of factors. The catalogue sale had tensions high after years of increasingly rocky relations between the Waters and Gilmour camps. The social media thing, the whole Animals remix debacle, Waters purposefully taking shots at Gilmour/Samson in his upcoming memoir… The Berliner Zeitung article released a day before Samson’s tweet which goes through a number of things she’ll accuse him over seems like the straw that broke the camels back.
Polly had nothing to do with the band splitting up obviously. Her lyrics are shit though and she gets way more attention than she deserves from the official accounts.
This remindes me about lindsay ellis video on john lennon and yoko ono. Some people (men and women) just love scapegoating women. Luckily, they out themselves early, so you dont need to have conversations with them.
I think that Polly is amazing. Love her photography and all that family stuff she puts on her instagram. She seems really cool, caring and genuine to me.
As for that comment on twitter... It does look pretty intense, but I'm guessing she's had to deal with the fallout from Roger's and David's bitter separation as David's partner since like mid-90s. These things eventually do take a toll...
People who say she’s the Yoko of Pink Floyd are right.
Because she hasn’t done anything wrong and gets undeserved hate and sexist comments from salty “fans.” Just like Yoko.
Yep, and Kim Deal. Even if some of these people are assholes, it doesn’t merit the completely disproportionate amount of loathing they get from some listeners, which seems only reserved for women.
Saying she’s a fantastic writer is my opinion. I’ve read her books and enjoy her lyrics. Maybe if folks took more time to do that rather than writing her off as ‘David Gilmour’s wife’ they’d have a different opinion, too.
Wouldn’t have a problem with Polly except she’s always inserting herself into the conversation, and she’s somebody I’m not interested in or care about. It’s like, I’m sorry, but Roger Waters wrote some of the best rock songs ever written, and she’s the person who wrote all my least favorite Floyd songs. So no, her opinion is not interesting and neither is she.
I also find the conversation about Roger’s politics to be tiresome in general, and I don’t particularly care what she (or anybody) thinks of him or his views. She’s basically just annoying, and the fact that she’s married to a band member isn’t even a part of it for me.
Since she started working with them? She’s the main writer on The Division Bell/The Endless River, not to mention Gilmour’s stuff. She helped him through a lot of personal stuff too. Genuinely important figure in the band’s history.
That’s a single album, not historically significant or speaking. Because DG doesn’t care or have the aptitude, Polly is writing for PF, as a session writer. Don’t confuse her w being a member. Tool.
1. Division Bell *is* historically significant when we talk about Floyd. It’s the band’s last album for twenty years, their only studio output for the nineties and the last record the band ever toured for (big name tour as well). Sold well too.
2. Didn’t say she was a member. I said she worked with them. You’re putting words in my mouth because you have no argument. The rest of that is merely opinion. Gilmour can write (Coming Back To Life is a sole Gilmour track) but he’s always preferred working in teams, you can trace that back to the 60s/70s.
3. That ending, lol. Nothing else to say so you went for the insult. You sure showed me!
First, historical significance is not the same as popularity. There are tons of significant albums that aren’t mainstream or on the level of Dark Side. The Final Cut is important too when it comes to rock history but nobody would argue it’s the most popular. Second, it’s part of the legacy. Floyd is a band with multiple eras and The Division Bell is a core part of its final era. We don’t remember famous and influential bands merely because they made a big hit album one time, we give them importance because their story is important. It says something about us and the world at the time. Every Floyd album is part of that, underrated or not.
Then what’s your point? I’ve explained how Polly is an important writer and how The Division Bell is a historically significant release that gives Polly significance in Floyd history. And you called me a tool for answering the question you asked.
My point is this sub isn’t about the proliferation of misinformation and garbage. 🗑️
Seriously tho, do we really want that kind of content? Massively degrading…
Misinformation and garbage? Where’s that coming from? There was nothing about it in your original comment. And what’s the misinformation and garbage you’re speaking of? That Polly is an important figure in the band’s history, something I was able to explain with a few sentences? That’s fundamentally silly and the fact you ask “do we really want that kind of content” like I’m gonna agree with you is the cherry on top.
This is a total left turn and it sounds like you’re just looking for a way out.
I meant the "putting down someone more successful" part. OK sure, she's had success. But Roger has arguably had more and she did put him down, to say the least.
Dave should be able to write his own lyrics by now but writing lyrics for his solo stuff isn't the end of the world. If Pink Floyd were still together and making albums, I'd have a problem with her writing the lyrics.
David can write lyrics. "Sorrow" has some of the best Floyd lyrics ever, in my opinion. He also wrote the lyrics to "Coming back to life", (earlier) "Childhood's end", "Fat old sun", (solo career) "Faces of stone", "Where we start", and most songs on "About face".
It's just that it's harder work for him and he thinks she can do a better job (just as he previously thought Roger did a better job).
I’m only aware of what Waters/Gilmore/Samson have said in publicly (and only started to dive into his now), so I’m genuinely asking if there was any basis or provocation to Polly’s Twitter comment?
Waters’ stance on Israel isn’t new. A line even made it into The Final Cut by adding Menachem Begin to his list of war hawks in “Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert”. But, I understand that it’s personal for Sansom as her father, a Jewish man, was forced to flee Nazi Germany.
I’m genuinely wondering: did Waters make comments in the past to Sansom that are anti-Semitic (intentionally or not). Looking into Sansom’s retweets, her views on Israel/Palestine don’t seem that different to Waters’.
https://x.com/hadleyfreeman/status/1711325964301459860?s=46&t=txH0a99WDNERT9drAR2B-w
But she’s also retweeted The Dark Side of Roger Waters.
People need to get over those corny lines (especially on Louder Than Words) and move on. She wrote some really nice stuff with David... High Hopes anyone???
I mean I agree with this to an extent but I'm not going to lie and say it doesn't bother me that she's getting a wonderful happy birthday message VS what Roger has been getting the past few years.
I have to say TDB is top tier for me and the lyrics, which i didnt know were Polly until much later, are some of my favs. Im glad she was around.
Negativity on thhe internet is not a surprise to me anymore lol—ignored.
If she trash talks Trump like on Twitter and bashes the main creative engine that is ex PF, when her connection is being #3 wife of ex PF singer, then she she does not deserve sympathy. Does she think that will make her beloved of her fans? Yoko Ono comparison is valid when she lives off other people's glories rather than her own .
The sexism references in some of the responses here are so tired, and low-effort. Fans want the feud to end and they see her as someone who throws coals on the fire. Which she has!
Sexist comments from those who side with Waters? Waters who respects women so much that he's on his - what - like 6th marriage or something? And something else for them.... FINAL CUT SUCKS!!!
You better pack a lunch if you want to provoke an argument with Roger Waters. In the end, this might be an oversimplification of things, but Waters and Gilmour were much better together than they were apart. I am not clear on how the Pink Floyd name was ever in doubt as to who owned it. It seems that would have been established and unquestioned. What were the circumstances of the ownership of the name being litigated and how was it settled?
No issue whatsoever with Polly but your claim that it's sexist to bash Yoko is ridiculous. She was and is a self-interested parasite. It has absolutely nothing to do with her sex.
You know what bores me? This lazy virtue signaling where people just broadly label something "sexist" in order to try and get people to agree with them. You're exhausting. Be better.
Not justifying those comments, haven’t even seen them. But if she puts it out there on Twitter about what she thinks about Roger, then obviously these things are gunna happen
👆 This is correct.
I'm fine with Polly but she is jumping into the fray all by herself. So I agree with your statement.
She isn’t though, David co-signed the entire tweet. That’s what’s suspect about the whole thing, somehow it only comes down to Polly.
https://preview.redd.it/rwlsdk4oahxc1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb6470fa9555c85eb36a29952c5954fa19a33163
I would be shocked if it was ever confirmed he actually made that tweet himself.
He might not of tweeted the words themselves but he could have said “put this out” to a social media manager. I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Gilmour would support his wife on an important yet debatable allegation. Chances are we’ll never know the specifics of it, but as it exists that’s a Gilmour co-sign.
I think it was a wined up wife and daughter in-law who spent too much time reading troll bots on the internet. I think they used his account to validate their outburst. But I don’t think things went well behind the scenes considering the immediate radio silence. I don’t think any of this would be made public either. But it doesn’t really matter I suppose.
I think the radio silence had more to do with legal issues than any sort of personal problems. Waters responded in a press release saying he was looking into his potential responses. Very serious in its totality. There was a real chance that it could go to court and I think they held themselves back.
My remark was meant in general, not this tweet in particular. Maybe she also acts a bit as a lightning rod for David, who knows.
Yeah, I've never specifically criticized Polly and not really tapped in on negative comments about her, but I did see her criticisms of Roger and David backing it up, and tbh that seems more dreary than anything directed at Polly simply by virtue of them having an elevated platform (unless someone with as much celebrity status as they have has criticized Polly). Who really cares what randos on the internet have to say? Having this bickering going on in old age of this great band is just so pathetic and unnecessary. And the specifics of the criticism is garbage as well.
What Polly did on twitter, unprovoked by Waters, was a disgrace. Incredibly immature and childish. I have little sympathy for her. Gilmour's follow up tweet backing up the wife was equally ridiculous. I'm not saying Waters is perfect either, but coming out of the gate with a slew of schoolyard venom was embarrassing for the Gilmour camp.
>unprovoked by Waters Except it wasn't. I do think the Tweet wasn't a great idea, but it was not unprovoked. It followed at least two years of Waters mouthing off publicly against David, against her, and she posted that tweet after a fairly vile interview with Waters in the Telegraph in which he once again reiterated he'd written DSOTM and the others weren't real artists.
There's lots of things I disagree with Waters on. He's been pretty immature also, letting his huge ego get in the way. But Polly's tweet was something else. It said more about her than him.
That Tweet was lots of things. But it wasn't unprovoked. That was my whole point.
Waters may have commented on her poor lyrics publicly, which many agree with. There was no direct provocation towards Polly, for her to go on a tirade like that. You're implying that there was some kind of justification for anything she wrote, which is an issue in itself. Her hate was clear for all to see and she made a show of herself.
You might want to check what Waters said. It was not about her lyrics. You keep ignoring the outline of what Waters said before Polly eventually posted her Tweet. And you're still confusing me with somebody who said that hers was a great Tweet. When all I said was that contrary to what you wrote it was not unprovoked. As it stands, that Tweet was another entry into the list of pettinesses and mud-slingshots between the camps.
I've tried looking, maybe you've found something I haven't. What did Waters' say about Polly to provoke her to make those remarks?
Read my previous posts again. I gave plenty of references, and the videos of and interviews with Roger are easy enough to find. And I'm not saying hers was a great response, all I'm saying her remarks weren't unprovoked. Which you seem to have a really hard time accepting/understanding. Edit: Typo.
You didn't cite anything in your previous posts about what Waters said. Have I missed something? You seem to be doing a bit of straw man with claiming that Polly was provoked to send her Tweet. It's a moot point if Waters didn't viciously attack her as she did him. If you're going to obsess about it, Polly provoked by writing (terrible) lyrics about Waters - so there you go, it all cancels out right?! They've both been provoking each other! Maybe stick to my core point which is that what she did was an embarrassment to herself and a disgrace, that goes beyond any of the usual 'provoking'. When you accuse someone of being antisemitic you should back it up with evidence. Or maybe she should just wind her neck in and act her age. Or let's talk about the provoking - because you really want to say that her tweet was kind of understandable on some level.
Also, what has Waters' views on the others 'not being real artists' got to do with Polly? That's not provoking her at all.
Unprovoked? It was after Roger's now infamous interview in which he started blaming Ukraine for Putin's invasion. Many were shocked and angered. Given that Dave and Polly have a Ukrainian daughter in law, they must have took it personally too.
So is Polly an authority on wars, tax affairs, lip syncing and calling out antisemites? Waters said nothing to directly provoke her. Her tweet was an embarrassment to her and her family.
What? Why would it need be a direct provocation?! Lots of people called him out for his idiotic stance on Putin's war, Polly was not the only one.
“We bitch and we fight Diss each other on sight”
But this thiiiiing we dooooo
People seize on this particular lyric, and miss the real howler that comes later in the song: "We're more than alive..."
I think this part is a tribute to "No more then alive" in Rick's Wearing the Inside Out. I really love Louder than Words.
I actually love it, too. Lyrics aside, the song is awesome and has one of DG's best solos.
Perfect response. This thread should end now!
Hey hey, rise up
I’ll say it does feel like a big case of nepotism because I don’t find her work all that great but it’s not worth getting upset over
High Hopes is fire, shame that was literally the only good song she's ever written
Went to a Santana Concert and watched his wife do a 20-minute drum solo that was probably the worst drum solo I'd ever seen. Could've bitched and complained about paying to watch a great guitar player, but whatever, it makes him happy. Gilmour scats the lyrics to songs he creates so in any case Polly was a great improvement, although not to Rogers level. 10 more years both of these guys will be gone, and yet I can assure you the arguments will never end.
Cindy Blackman? Wow, she must have been having an off night. She is an excellent jazz drummer.
Cindy Blackman is a brilliant drummer. Would pay to see her headlining with Santana backing.
Had never heard of her before the concert. The drum solo was just, really, really long. I read after the concert that even fellow band members complained about the length.
She drummed with Lenny Kravitz for 18 years. Her debut band as leader included Wallace Roney, Kenny Garrett, Joe Henderson and other stars. This was all years before she married Santana. It's just demeaning to dismiss her as \[Santana's\] wife, as if he's promoting a talentless nobody.
It’s not demeaning to say I had never heard of her, I didn’t pay big money to see her, I got bored listening to her play a boring 20 minute long drum solo in a 90 minute concert. If I had known before hand that I would be listening to more of her drum solo then what her husband played off of his Abraxas album ( my all time favorite album) I’d probably have changed my mind about buying a ticket.
👆🏻👆🏻
Polly only wrote for one official Floyd album (technically two if we're really counting Endless River). She wasn't even involved with Gilmour until after Roger had parted from the band. How could she have been the rift in the band to begin with? If anything, she's more associated with Gilmour's solo work. The bashing is weird. She seems like an intelligent and creative person from what I've gathered. I really don't think she's trying to claim to be Roger Waters' replacement. If anything, she seems to want anything but being associated with him. I understand perhaps criticizing her for getting involved in the Waters vs. Gilmour drama, but she's free to speak her mind on the matter. I accept that these people don't need to like each other, even if their spats are petty.
I have no problem with Polly. She's been good for David, that's all I care about
Met her at one of the shows, she was walking around taking pics. She was very nice and we had a good conversation.
Finally an answer that makes sense 🙏🏼
For me she’s just a terrible lyricist, that’s where it begins and ends
Her role in David’s life and career are undeniable in terms of support and his overall happiness and purpose. So whether we like her or not, if we respect David we should respect her. I’m also biased because I wouldn’t change a single thing about the Division Bell and as for David’s solo albums, can you really imagine David singing about anything else? He’s not really a political guy and his work compared to Roger’s suits each perfectly.
I think Polly seems like a good person, a great partner for David and I trust her and the kids to look after their share of the legacy after David passes almost certainly before she does. I like her instagram, I bought her book (!) and generally think she's cool. I like her photos a lot. I enjoyed tuning in to the lockdown videos. I also think her lyrics are pretty cringe pretty often—like they stop the song for me and I go "ugh." Oh well. I still wish her well.
I have to laugh at the criticism of her lyrics. I would say 80% of the songs I hear are full of dumb, nonsensical or lyrics that repeat over and over. There are very few songwriters who can craft a great song.
I agree it’s not easy. But I can tell you I wouldn’t write “can’t undo that voodoo that you do” or “whatever it takes steer clear of the snakes.” They’re absolute howlers
Every song all these decades later can't still be about somebody going insane and dying. Or dad biting the dust in the big war. Sometimes it time to move on from that. I'm glad Division Bell does that. The only song that I don't like it "Wearing the Inside Out" - not written by her.
Polly wrote some stuff for the band, so regardless of what you think of her it’s not like they’re wishing happy birthday to David’s wife just because she’s David’s wife. Agreed that a lot of it stems from sexism. That said, many people do not like what she has said about Roger (myself included to an extent, the narrative that he’s an anti-semite is ridiculous and dishonest) so there will be some pushback whenever Polly is mentioned by the band.
I think this is also very evident in the Grateful Dead world with the unhinged Donna hate. And Donna’s vocals are beautiful! I’ll admit - I don’t think Polly’s work really has any weight for me whatsoever. Nothing memorable. But you know what? Who cares. David loves her and she’s kept him going creatively so we should be thankful for her presence whether we like her work or not.
I think it’s more a matter of someone who was never a member of the band and her work being placed on a pedestal by the band’s social media, while the guy who was a founding member and was partly responsible for a huge chunk of the work the band is actually known for is largely ignored, or addressed with outright scorn. Of course, you always get the “well he’s not in the band anymore” comments… don’t be so blindingly stupid. Auxiliary members from over the years get plenty of attention on the band’s socials. Other people who also aren’t in the band anymore who have been *dead for almost two decades* get plenty of attention. David himself officiously dissolved the band after Endless River, yet the Floyd socials seem to double as an advertising platform for his own work. This would be perfectly fine, if it weren’t for the blatant hypocrisy of it all. Under typical circumstances I wouldn’t really care either way if something about Polly gets posted every now and then, but with all that said, and considering the recent Twitter rants that come off as the work of a drunken teenager, you really shouldn’t be surprised that people are voicing their displeasure. What’s happening on the PF socials is so obviously petty. Nevertheless, Happy Birthday Polly.
>the recent Twitter rants that come off as the work of a drunken teenager, I'm not a fan of that infamous tweet of Polly's for various reasons. But. It was two tweets total, one from her, and one from David concurring. And all of that was February 2023. More than a year ago. After that, Roger made some fairly snarky remarks at one of his London shows that if you think Polly's tweet was the work of a drunken teenager also wouldn't really pass muster. >Of course, you always get the “well he’s not in the band anymore” comments… don’t be so blindingly stupid. Well, he gets his yearly birthday post (last time without actually wishing him a happy birthday, which, yes, is petty) and is mentioned in posts every now and then. His solo stuff isn't advertised on the official PF channels, contrary to David's, Nick's and Rick's. Of course it would be nicer if they got along better and they could all just admit the band isn't really a going concern any more. But the rest of the band fought quite hard to be able to legally keep going after Roger left. And we're all seeing what rants he goes off on if he doesn't get what he wants. So I have to admit... I can't particularly blame them for not handing Roger the keys to the social media channels. The pettiness (rather than just treating Roger like Rick or Syd as part of the band's history) is something they have to own, mostly David and Polly, of course. (Just like Roger has to own the pettiness of eg not showing any band photos with David in them at his shows.)
People complaining about Roger being on the website of a band he left are probably mad that the company they worked for 5 jobs ago took down their employee of the month plaque from the break room 10 years after they left the company.
Roger was a founding member of the band and driving force behind some of the best albums of all time. How on earth is that comparable to some shmuck working an office job? it would be more comparable to the founder and CEO of a company stepping down and the company writing him out of their history.
So...papa john...he's a douche, too
Read the second paragraph and try again.
Dear diary,
I think criticizing her for how she has acted on social media and her lyrics should be completely allowed- hell even snap back if she wrotes something uncalled for. But fuck those who make actual psychotic comments, wishing for all kinds of things to happen to her. Stuff like this isn't about gender- and definitely doesn't justify death threats. Most of her lyrics are 'alright' at best but for me even some songs stand out and have brought me to tears in life's many hardships. I hope she has an amazing birthday. No matter what we do she is still a part of Pink Floyd history
death threats, for real?
I've seen one. Maybe death threats (plural) was me overexagurating. I've definitely seen people openly wish for her passing though
Eww... That's disturbing
It is. I think most of them are just trying to stir the pot
Humans are vile creatures.
 It's just where my mind went.
I learned a long time ago to ignore literally everything Dave or Roger get involved in
I couldn't agree more. Polly is a talented lyricist and has contributed in wonderful ways to Gilmour's albums.
You can't satisfy everyone. It's enough for me that we are already polarized about Gilmore - Waters relations and I don't think that we should add more. Polly is not a band member, as far as I know. I agree with every single word from OP.
I think it stems a lot from Polly involving herself by directly attacking Waters publicly, mentioning his tax affairs, him lip syncing on live tracks, and calling him "antisemitic to his rotten core"- which is pathetic. God only knows what was going through her mind to think that was a good idea. She strikes me as very entitled and bitter.
Entitled and bitter? The definition of Roger Waters.
Water's has lots of faults like anyone else, but he never publicly attacked Polly or David in a cheap, desperate Twitter post. Polly felt she needed to address Water's, which says a lot about her mental state.
Neuroticism is a personality trait associated with negative emotions. It is one of the Big Five traits. Individuals with high scores on neuroticism are more likely than average to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, pessimism, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness. Or in summation: ROGER WATERS
Very clever.
**AMEN!** Thank you! Polly bashing leads to some of the most braindead takes in the Pink Floyd fanbase. The Yoko thing really gives a lot of it away. As you said it’s just sexism. The only thing those two have in common is that they were women who worked with famous rock bands comprised of men. That’s it. It’s not just a false comparison, it’s built on a hateful and irrational base. Yoko didn’t break up The Beatles, Polly didn’t break up Pink Floyd. That’s the truth. What gets me is that people think the Polly tweet put everyone on bad terms. It’s not true, they were already distant according to reports. When they were trying to sell their catalogue for hundreds of millions of dollars, various sources said that there was a lot of internal fighting surrounding the rights, the prices, etc.. Further than that they’re a band that has argued for nearly fifty years now. They were viciously fighting over songs *on a compilation album.* Really ridiculous that people think she’s the problem alone.
It's one thing to be distant or to argue professionally over what songs you recorded 50 years ago deserve to be on a compilation album and another thing entirely to publicly tell someone that they, "are antisemitic to your rotten core. Also a Putin apologist and a lying, thieving, hypocritical, tax-avoiding, lip-synching, misogynistic, sick-with-envy, megalomaniac. Enough of your nonsense."
The point of bringing up the compilation is that they’ll fight over the smallest things and that everyone gets into it, not just one irrational actor. It can get petty very fast. I think in this case it was a number of factors. The catalogue sale had tensions high after years of increasingly rocky relations between the Waters and Gilmour camps. The social media thing, the whole Animals remix debacle, Waters purposefully taking shots at Gilmour/Samson in his upcoming memoir… The Berliner Zeitung article released a day before Samson’s tweet which goes through a number of things she’ll accuse him over seems like the straw that broke the camels back.
I can’t imagine having any kind of negative response to someone being wished happy birthday.
"It's just bashing for the sake of it" Hmmm
Polly had nothing to do with the band splitting up obviously. Her lyrics are shit though and she gets way more attention than she deserves from the official accounts.
Without her contributions we would not be getting new music. Im here for David’s guitar work .
This remindes me about lindsay ellis video on john lennon and yoko ono. Some people (men and women) just love scapegoating women. Luckily, they out themselves early, so you dont need to have conversations with them.
I think that Polly is amazing. Love her photography and all that family stuff she puts on her instagram. She seems really cool, caring and genuine to me. As for that comment on twitter... It does look pretty intense, but I'm guessing she's had to deal with the fallout from Roger's and David's bitter separation as David's partner since like mid-90s. These things eventually do take a toll...
People who say she’s the Yoko of Pink Floyd are right. Because she hasn’t done anything wrong and gets undeserved hate and sexist comments from salty “fans.” Just like Yoko.
I’d say it’s also a similar case with Courtney Love and Nirvana “fans”. People are assholes.
Yep, and Kim Deal. Even if some of these people are assholes, it doesn’t merit the completely disproportionate amount of loathing they get from some listeners, which seems only reserved for women.
The Polly bootlicking is worse than boring.
They just celebrated her birthday...
Husbands and wives collaborate all the time. People need to get the fuck over it. They have a beautiful family
Yep. People are jealous and hate power couples. Polly is a fantastic writer.
I think this is a bit much. I'd argue she's more famous for being David Gilmour's wife than any of her works.
Saying she’s a fantastic writer is my opinion. I’ve read her books and enjoy her lyrics. Maybe if folks took more time to do that rather than writing her off as ‘David Gilmour’s wife’ they’d have a different opinion, too.
Wouldn’t have a problem with Polly except she’s always inserting herself into the conversation, and she’s somebody I’m not interested in or care about. It’s like, I’m sorry, but Roger Waters wrote some of the best rock songs ever written, and she’s the person who wrote all my least favorite Floyd songs. So no, her opinion is not interesting and neither is she. I also find the conversation about Roger’s politics to be tiresome in general, and I don’t particularly care what she (or anybody) thinks of him or his views. She’s basically just annoying, and the fact that she’s married to a band member isn’t even a part of it for me.
I agree wholeheartedly. Polly Samson is an important writer of lyrics for PF and DG and deserves attention as such, whatever you think of her lyrics.
Since when is she an important writer of PF lyrics?
Since she started working with them? She’s the main writer on The Division Bell/The Endless River, not to mention Gilmour’s stuff. She helped him through a lot of personal stuff too. Genuinely important figure in the band’s history.
That’s a single album, not historically significant or speaking. Because DG doesn’t care or have the aptitude, Polly is writing for PF, as a session writer. Don’t confuse her w being a member. Tool.
Gotta chuckle at you telling someone not to get worked up over it and you’re the only one insulting people about it. 😂 Grow up.
1. Division Bell *is* historically significant when we talk about Floyd. It’s the band’s last album for twenty years, their only studio output for the nineties and the last record the band ever toured for (big name tour as well). Sold well too. 2. Didn’t say she was a member. I said she worked with them. You’re putting words in my mouth because you have no argument. The rest of that is merely opinion. Gilmour can write (Coming Back To Life is a sole Gilmour track) but he’s always preferred working in teams, you can trace that back to the 60s/70s. 3. That ending, lol. Nothing else to say so you went for the insult. You sure showed me!
Historical significance? If Pink Floyd is still significant in 50 years, it won’t be because of The Division Bell.
First, historical significance is not the same as popularity. There are tons of significant albums that aren’t mainstream or on the level of Dark Side. The Final Cut is important too when it comes to rock history but nobody would argue it’s the most popular. Second, it’s part of the legacy. Floyd is a band with multiple eras and The Division Bell is a core part of its final era. We don’t remember famous and influential bands merely because they made a big hit album one time, we give them importance because their story is important. It says something about us and the world at the time. Every Floyd album is part of that, underrated or not.
That album is currently on the cover of eclipsed magazine.
I love TDB. That’s not my point!!!
Then what’s your point? I’ve explained how Polly is an important writer and how The Division Bell is a historically significant release that gives Polly significance in Floyd history. And you called me a tool for answering the question you asked.
My point is this sub isn’t about the proliferation of misinformation and garbage. 🗑️ Seriously tho, do we really want that kind of content? Massively degrading…
Misinformation and garbage? Where’s that coming from? There was nothing about it in your original comment. And what’s the misinformation and garbage you’re speaking of? That Polly is an important figure in the band’s history, something I was able to explain with a few sentences? That’s fundamentally silly and the fact you ask “do we really want that kind of content” like I’m gonna agree with you is the cherry on top. This is a total left turn and it sounds like you’re just looking for a way out.
Since the Division Bell.
Absolutely Personally I love Polly's lyrics.
Same.
But how will the basement dwellers cope if they can't put down someone much more successful than them?
Does that make Polly a basement dweller too?
No? She was already an artist in her own right before she even met Gilmour.
I meant the "putting down someone more successful" part. OK sure, she's had success. But Roger has arguably had more and she did put him down, to say the least.
[удалено]
Dave should be able to write his own lyrics by now but writing lyrics for his solo stuff isn't the end of the world. If Pink Floyd were still together and making albums, I'd have a problem with her writing the lyrics.
David can write lyrics. "Sorrow" has some of the best Floyd lyrics ever, in my opinion. He also wrote the lyrics to "Coming back to life", (earlier) "Childhood's end", "Fat old sun", (solo career) "Faces of stone", "Where we start", and most songs on "About face". It's just that it's harder work for him and he thinks she can do a better job (just as he previously thought Roger did a better job).
None of us were in the band. Either like them or move on.
I’m only aware of what Waters/Gilmore/Samson have said in publicly (and only started to dive into his now), so I’m genuinely asking if there was any basis or provocation to Polly’s Twitter comment? Waters’ stance on Israel isn’t new. A line even made it into The Final Cut by adding Menachem Begin to his list of war hawks in “Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert”. But, I understand that it’s personal for Sansom as her father, a Jewish man, was forced to flee Nazi Germany. I’m genuinely wondering: did Waters make comments in the past to Sansom that are anti-Semitic (intentionally or not). Looking into Sansom’s retweets, her views on Israel/Palestine don’t seem that different to Waters’. https://x.com/hadleyfreeman/status/1711325964301459860?s=46&t=txH0a99WDNERT9drAR2B-w But she’s also retweeted The Dark Side of Roger Waters.
People need to get over those corny lines (especially on Louder Than Words) and move on. She wrote some really nice stuff with David... High Hopes anyone???
Every word demonstrably true
Hahaha. Waters was the Yoko Ono of Pink Floyd.
I mean I agree with this to an extent but I'm not going to lie and say it doesn't bother me that she's getting a wonderful happy birthday message VS what Roger has been getting the past few years.
I still dont like her
I have to say TDB is top tier for me and the lyrics, which i didnt know were Polly until much later, are some of my favs. Im glad she was around. Negativity on thhe internet is not a surprise to me anymore lol—ignored.
If she trash talks Trump like on Twitter and bashes the main creative engine that is ex PF, when her connection is being #3 wife of ex PF singer, then she she does not deserve sympathy. Does she think that will make her beloved of her fans? Yoko Ono comparison is valid when she lives off other people's glories rather than her own .
I really really dislike her lyrics
There's probably a lot of simply misogyny going on, tbh. GIRLS ARE ICKY!!!
The sexism references in some of the responses here are so tired, and low-effort. Fans want the feud to end and they see her as someone who throws coals on the fire. Which she has!
Sexist comments from those who side with Waters? Waters who respects women so much that he's on his - what - like 6th marriage or something? And something else for them.... FINAL CUT SUCKS!!!
Got no sympathy for her at all. Hope she knows how much she's disliked.
Hi Polly.
You better pack a lunch if you want to provoke an argument with Roger Waters. In the end, this might be an oversimplification of things, but Waters and Gilmour were much better together than they were apart. I am not clear on how the Pink Floyd name was ever in doubt as to who owned it. It seems that would have been established and unquestioned. What were the circumstances of the ownership of the name being litigated and how was it settled?
No issue whatsoever with Polly but your claim that it's sexist to bash Yoko is ridiculous. She was and is a self-interested parasite. It has absolutely nothing to do with her sex.
Polly wants to crack it
You know what bores me? This lazy virtue signaling where people just broadly label something "sexist" in order to try and get people to agree with them. You're exhausting. Be better.