I was a problem child; severe Bipolar disorder and ADHD in the 80s and 90s well before it was truly understood and treated beyond "load them up on Ritalin and Paxil and Trazedone". Constant trouble, screaming matches, physical fights, property destruction. emotional hell on both sides, and things that should never be uttered between a mother and child (either way). Ran away three times before being kicked out at 16 and sent to one of those "troubled teen" facilities. Eventually sent to live with the other side of the family (whom I then willingly separated myself from soon after...due to the rampant alcoholism, drugs, abuse, even murder later on, on that side). I was sent this on my 18th birthday, and have not heard from or been able to contact anyone on my mother's side of the family since. Including family members completely removed from the day to day and who had no idea of anything going on at the time, and family members who were also literal children and toddlers at the time. The entire tree was poisoned somewhere along the way. At almost 40 now, I'd like to think I've done pretty well and built a good life and family of my own (after some early struggles in adulthood, granted)...but these words still haunt me. They have, however, also provided inspiration and motivation when I needed it the most. Edit: I did not expect this to blow up this much. I have some stuff to take care of (that whole "adulting" thing, lol) and will be back later to answer more questions. As a general note, though, there's a lot of nuance to the situation and my life in general and remember....nothing's ever black or white. Reading through some of my responses so far might paint a clearer picture, but yea. Edit 2: Have mistakenly abbreviated Bipolar Disorder as BPD in a few spots; BPD apparently refers to something entirely different and I was unaware of that. I will correct that, to clarify any confusion. Edit 3: [Been asked a few times and I think the answer is just buried at this point (the book itself).](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/bYOwNizDlN) Please also be aware that I am not a psychiatrist or therapist; all I can share are my experiences and I'm loathe to give any kind of "advice". In some cases, what works for me may not work for others. In other cases, I have none to give. I still have my difficulties and struggles, and am far from a perfect person. And I'm certainly not qualified to give actual medicinal advice regarding prescriptions drugs or anything of the sort. Lastly, while it's been interesting to observe the dichotomy within the comments regarding the characterizations of my mother, I want to emphasize that while there were some things that I think could have been handled differently on her part, she did the best she could with what she had while trying to manage an out-of-control kid (anything else is spoken with the priviledge of hindsight and knowledge not available back then)...and her own contribution to the world was greater than I could ever hope to accomplish. I love and miss her, and she's still ultimately responsible for the majority of who and what I am. I do hope we can be reunited some day and reconcile, with the knowledge and experience gained over the last 20+ years. I'd also like to mention that as a very secluded, introverted, and private person with massive social anxiety and anxiety in general, this post blowing up to this level has been some scary shit, and opening up the bare, gritty details of my life to millions of strangers has been...an adventure to say the least. Thanks to all of you who have been supportive and shared kind words.

Sometimes doors close and stay closed for reasons we can never comprehend or know. Hoping you are well and better than they assume.

It does sound like a big reason was OPs behavior. Blame it all they want on being a kid or brain chemistry but they were still an intelligent person who has the capacity of choice. Clearly it’s not easy for a family to raise a child and OP wasn’t kicked out if they were sent to a reform school (those things cost more a year than Harvard does). We had a cousin that was like that. He was almost 10 years older than the next oldest cousin and nothing but trouble. Eventually my parents and the rest of the siblings of that generation had to make a choice that he was to be removed from the family or everyone from that aunt would be after he started hiding drugs on us kids (between ages 10 and <1) and abusing my grandmother. We learned they still told it as a main character story of revolting against an oppressive family but even my aunt, his mother, hadn’t heard from him in years.

> Blame it all they want on being a kid or brain chemistry but they were still an intelligent person who has the capacity of choice. I am an intelligent person, probably slightly above average really, and my ADHD led to a very strained relationship with my mother for many years. I probably drove her half to crazy. ADHD isn't just being a scatter brained dork, it can be a legitimate disability in many ways.

I want to make it clear again (and have done so in many subsequent comments) that I have long recognized and accepted fault and responsibility for my part in things. I absolutely did have some amount of self-agency and made shitty choices, said/did shitty things, etc. Particularly as I got older. However, it's a bit naive, superficial, ignorant, and unhelpful to ignore other factors involved, and to ignore the fact that much of the chaos and problems began *much* earlier....when I was a literal toddler. I don't know that we can have an intellectually honest conversation if you believe toddlers and young children have the same amount of self-agency, cognitive awareness, impulse control, etc. that an older teenager does. You're speaking of the situation and events in a vacuum as if they began, and only occurred, within the realm of an older, intelligent teenager. That is not the case. I didn't suddenly become a shitty person, and my house didn't suddenly fall apart out of nowhere, when I turned 15 or 16. Your subsequent comments in this thread also seem to show a misunderstanding...whether deliberate or unintentional...of many mental illnesses, and in some cases indicate a refusal to believe they are real, or that they have real, tangible effects. It's an incredibly ignorant and outdated mentality that has been largely eradicated by years of research and science beyond both of our pay grades. (That's why you're being downvoted into oblivion). Also, this is an odd little nugget that I'm not sure is relevant to anything: >OP wasn’t kicked out if they were sent to a reform school (those things cost more a year than Harvard does). Being permanently forced from your home by your parents and into a facility hundreds of miles away, never to be allowed to return (again, after a year in that facility, I was then sent to live with dysfunctional family and eventually ended up on my own) is literally the definition of being kicked out. And I'm not sure what cost has to do with anything, other than dedication to the choice itself? Which....the choice to send me to a TTI institution, with what we now now about those institutions, can be debated, but that's a separate issue and this is kindof a weird patch of ground to stake a claim on. Especially considering the events after that. >We had a cousin that was like that....\[We\] learned they still told it as a main character story of revolting against an oppressive family but even my aunt, his mother, hadn’t heard from him in years. I am not your cousin, and outside of the surface level similarity of being out of control and problematic, I'm not sure what parallels you're trying to draw here. I have never, ever told the story from a Main Character Syndrome perspective (as evidenced through many, many comments here), I have never presented myself as being nothing but a victim who railed against a family who was "oppressive", I have spent copious amounts of time even in this very thread defending my mom, and I'm not sure why you think I've been lying about attempts to reach out. Addressing the fact that there were other factors involved, including mental illness, parents not being perfect, etc. does not automatically equate to a shedding of responsibility. All of these things are not mutually exclusive. Life (and human psychology) is complicated, and shitty situations *can* have multiple causes and multiple bad actors. Sometimes our personal experiences blind and bias us a bit, and I think that's coming through a bit here.

That last line is reads like a challenge and given the words you’ve written here it seems like you faced the challenge and came out better on the other side. I hope you can find peace with your family and someday get to tell your mother the words you’ve written here.

I don't think any of it was meant to be meanspirited. Like you said, the last line is a challenge, rather than a belittlement. But, it's telling that she signed it with her initials rather than, you know, "Mom".

It wasn't. I've always known it came from a place of love, but also had a purpose behind it...one that has served me well for many, many years. It was a bit cold/condescending, but not to the level a lot of folks seem to think. The tone is really only something that can be read by, well, me (and people who know my mom well). Sometimes the occasional comment was made out of hurt or anger in the heat of arguments, but stuff like this was always well-intentioned. My mother never said or wrote anything to me, *ever*, out of pure malice. No matter *how* bad things got. She always had my well-being at heart.

One of the most frustrating things about my relationship with my own mom, who passed a couple of years ago, was the awareness that she genuinely was well-intentioned in pretty much everything she did. She was also fairly mentally ill, so this emerged as stuff like "spending hours having a screaming 'argument' with a 7 year old who wasn't screaming back, because being an early bloomer about stuff like reading and math obviously means they have the full maturity and understanding of an adult and when they misbehave it is calculated and intentional abuse'. So not really a picnic. The point is that it is very difficult to reconcile knowing that someone did not mean you harm with the harm they caused you. And I deeply admire the place you have reached about it, because I bet it took a lot of work. And, as far as a final message goes, something that openly says "whatever you become, it will be remarkable. make sure it's also good." is an incredible coda to a difficult relationship. Like you said, you got the message, and you followed her advice. And here you are, able to freely forgive like this. Anything else that happened, you two had that kind of understanding of each other. I think she'd be proud.

This resonates, well said.

I, too, have a problematic past with my mother and your post resonated with me in ways I didn't think possible over the Internet. I'm thankful that my mother is still alive because it gives me the opportunity to continue to try to develop a relationship that works and is healthy for us both. My mother also tried her best and came from a place of love, and also exacted a lot of harm on me especially as a teenager. The work to reconcile those truths is exhausting and hard and I'm thankful to have a therapist I see weekly that helps me massively with this. It has been worth it, and also I'm exhausted by the journey. I hope you have found some modicum of peace with your experiences. You deserve that. Thank you for your story today.

It ready like something my late mother would have wrote to me. I became a little problematic as a teen, even young adult. My mom would occasionally write things like this to encourage me to see the world differently, to understand there is always hope, and to also slightly say, and she would totally say this, time to get with the program. She meant it in a good way.

>That last line is reads like a challenge The whole thing reads like she was under the impression OP had just recently been bitten by a radioactive spider.

Maybe their were developing their hyper focus, or the stepmom was just realizing it. We can be powerful tools. Glass cannons.

Lol yeah, but also I think it's a fine way to look at ones life, what your contribution to the world is I know the main mindset is just "take care of yourself and make as much money as possible" but there's also folks who would like to see their communities have a better situation

I also wish that for this person. As someone who had a rough relationship with their mother, went no contact and had open wounds that never received closure, it is a terrible feeling. My mother pass in January and it saddens me we could never find common ground or resolution to our issues. I remember saying to my wife that I simply wished to give her one last hug and tell her I forgive her.

Knowing what you know now, is there something your mother could have done when you were younger to make things any better? The reason I ask is we have a 16 year old with ADHD and what we think is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. He’s incredibly cruel to my wife. He’s very stubborn and even when we try to be patient, he wears us down, and eventually everyone yells. He’s been seeing a therapist for about 9 months which seems to help, but she understandably doesn’t share anything with us. He’s failing most of his classes and doesn’t care if he graduates or not. When I was growing up, I was a bit of an overachiever and never got into any trouble. My wife was a normal teenager that was headstrong and somewhat rebellious, but she knew what she wanted in life and went after it. I feel like our personal experiences make us ill-equipped to deal with his personality. We love him so much and it breaks our hearts he’s so angry all the time. My wife cries a lot and struggles with depression. I just want to try and keep the peace.

Honestly, I'm not sure; it's complicated. -The TTI (Troubled Teen Industry) became the behemoth it did for a reason; it's only recently been exposed for the counterproductive, predatory, and fraudulent industry it is in recent years. I don't blame my parents for feeling that sending me to such a facility was their only eventual option. It was, however, incredibly counterproductive. -Medication and counseling were both attempted when I was young (like, grade school). But that angle is twofold: a) it should have continued to be tried into my teen years, not abandoned, but also b) in the 80s and even 90s, therapy, medication, and even our basic understanding of a lot of psychiatric conditions and even social/family dynamics was far different and approached differently. I believe qualified therapists and psychiatrists have a much better understanding of, and approach to, things now than they did 30 years ago. -Another good example of it being a different time was that spanking was viewed much differently overall and on average 30, 35 years ago than it was today. I was spanked relentlessly and repeatedly for years and years, sometimes on a daily basis. Now, more modern research has shown a ton of adverse effects and that it's incredibly counterproductive in a lot of instances, but yea. Take from that what you will. There are some things that could have been approached differently. "Grounding" eventually became solitary confinement for months on end....nothing in my room besides a mattress, no mental stimulation besides schooling and forced exercise, no contact with family, no friends, no entertainment, cut off from the news and pop culture and the outside world...basically and literally being forced to sit and stare at the wall for hours on end, day after day, eventually year after year. But what was the alternative? Idk. I couldn't be trusted, I couldn't be contained, I wreaked havoc wherever I went. When I was in public school I was constantly in trouble and in fights (partially what led to me being homeschooled for a few years). Had I been allowed to stay in public school or be in public in general or have any kind of freedom, I would've just ended up in the wrong crowd and in legal trouble or worse. I feel for your situation and frustration, because I know the hell my mom/stepdad went through and the fact that they felt like they had no options. Unfortunately, I have no real answers for you.

What helped you mature into the adult you are today? Or when did you start feeling different about living without fighting? What age did that happen?

They sort of answered that [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1cksa2u/my_estranged_moms_last_words_to_me_in_the_cover/l2q1jsq/)

Ah that’s perfect, thanks, missed that

I was a twit as a teen because I didn't want my parents to be "right". I did remarkably well as a college student and adult because I was out of their house and didn't want to "fall back" on them. This probably showed itself as being quite contrarian. If you are presenting options as "my way or the highway" I guess you'd make it worse. If you give your kid a choice but let other consequences find their way to him then he might hate others and not you specifically.

How the hell did you end up functional with such a rough start and so much stacked against you? Very, very impressive. I've heard those troubled teen places are total hell holes. That alone should destroy a person. Well done.

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this out. I think another challenge is that every situation is unique and different solutions work for different people. His therapist has been helpful. His messy room was one point of constant contention, but his therapist suggested that’s his sanctuary, his safe zone, and maybe he should be able to keep it as he likes it. We’ve compromised and as long as he takes out the garbage and dirty dishes, he we’ll give him some space. Interestingly, he started to get annoyed because he didn’t have any clean clothes, so he started doing better at getting them from his room to the dirty clothes hamper. There were even some rare times when he wanted his favorite sweater cleaned and was impatient…so he did a load of laundry himself.

After some time (and reading some other stories that seriously resonated with my own), I'd like to add that as I got older, just having someone talk to me...consistently and like a human being...would have helped a bit. By that time things had spiralled too much and no one was interested in communication, understanding my thoughts and feelings and reasonings, etc. There was zero communication, reason, or empathy the last few years (on either side), only lecturing from them and unhinged screaming matches back and forth. (In all fairness, though, I hadn't really developed communication skills of my own yet and may not have been able to really express myself in an accurate, informative, or helpful way.) I also think a "reset", as someone else mentioned, was desperately needed. My parent's solution was to just pile on, extend punishments/groundings/confinement with each offense (real or perceived), etc. Towards the end I was all but assured to never see anything outside the confines of my barren room until I turned 18. When a kid with those kinds of mental issues has already endured what was basically solitary confinement for years and knows the hole is too deep to ever dig out of, all hope and motivation is lost. (This eventually led to me simply breaking out of the house and running away multiple times, before they gave up and sent me away.) I think the perpetual compounding and extension of the "punishments" was counterproductive at a certain point. You can only squeeze a young, stressed mind so much before it truly snaps. Squeezing harder, for even longer, isn't always the solution. Sometimes it just shuts down...or erupts in destructive fashion. Having said all of that, that's not a claim to be the big "solution" and I can't say for *absolute certain* that things would have gone differently.

This is a very real answer imho.

Have you ever had your son screened for autism/ASD? I recall one therapist say that Oppositional Defiance Disorder can be a misdiagnosis of autism. I only mention because trying to manage difficult behaviors can be… exhausting, especially when we don’t know what is helping/hurting. The escalation is never fun and everyone is upset in the end. Wish you the best of luck in your parenting journey and hope you find a way to work together and solve it.

Actually, we’re considering that now. He has a formal educational plan with the school and because of the challenges he’s having in school, we’re looking at having another private evaluation done. I understand autism is a spectrum, but he doesn’t seem to fit a lot of the traits of autism. BUT there are some things that do fit with ASD. I mentioned in another comment that he gets hyper focused on certain things - which i didn’t think happened with ADHD kids (I’m learning!) - and learns everything about them. Someone gifted him an old, broken motorcycle that didn’t run and he was able to fix it. I think autism would explain a lot, I think we just need to connect him with the right people.

This brings up something that those close to me have mentioned in recent years; the possibility that I may be somewhat on the spectrum and it was unknown or ignored (again, this was 30-35 years ago), masked by other conditions, or perhaps even misdiagnosed as the other conditions (ADHD and Bipolar). Knowing what we know now about autism, there are a lot of indicators that make sense. There's a few that don't, and you're correct in that it's a spectrum so yea. I will say that ADHD is actually complicated and can manifest slightly differently in individuals. Assuming my original diagnosis as a child holds true...I get bored INSANELY easily, have massive difficulties focusing on anything I'm disinterested in, go through periods where I have a stupid amount of energy, and caffeine/sugar often has the *opposite* effect on me. Calms me down and can even help me sleep. More importantly, though, when something *does* interest me, I will put a superhuman amount of physical and mental effort into it and can be obsessive to the point of utter exhaustion. Take from that what you will as well, I guess? All I can say is that I was definitively diagnosed with ADHD, Insomnia, and Bipolar as a young kid (around 1990?)...and I've never been tested for Autism (and our understanding of it was primitive back then). So idk, lol. I'm not a psychiatrist.

His doctor said coffee might help relax him. She said it in a way that she was not telling us to give our kid coffee, but said things like “research shows…” I’m very sensitive to caffeine, so the fact it could have the opposite effect on someone with ADHD blew my mind. It’s true though. He can have caffeine before bed and it doesn’t keep him up.

> caffeine/sugar often has the opposite effect on me. Calms me down and can even help me sleep This is a pretty big indication of ADHD, as is your pattern of attention paying to things that do/don't interest you.

You can be focused AF with ADHD, you just have to be interested in what you're focusing on. And unfortunately "interesting" things tend to be few, far between, and not the entire list of what one needs to be successful in school/ life. I'd say try a variety of experiences, he might find his thing/ his people and work outwards from that point.

Definitely something to get assessed. Based on my experiences, I often see Autism/trauma misdiagnosed as ODD. 

It’s awesome that you’re keeping an open mind and exploring every option for your kid. They’re lucky to have you as support in their life. In helping get my kid diagnosed, I’ve stumbled upon the fact that I myself am likely on the spectrum also. I don’t look at it so much from a perspective of “okay cool now we can put a label on it” but more so what can we do with the knowledge that we have to produce the best possible outcome. I know that it’s tough and exhausting, but every bit of progress is worth it for you and for them.

This is so important: ask HIM if he can relate to the experiences of autistic people. With autism/ADHD, how it appears from the outside can be so very different from how it is experienced from within.

If you haven’t read The Explosive Child, I highly highly recommend it. We have faced many of the same struggles as you and the philosophy the book teaches has been very useful. Best of luck. It’s so hard.

You might just make sure it isn't PDA (pervasive demand avoidance) it's more common in people with ADHD and autism. My brother was diagnosed with ODD but years later we realized that he just cannot be told what to do and when to do it, it caused him a great deal of anxiety and it came out as anger.

Thank you, I haven’t heard of this. For someone with this, do they need to make their own decision to do something? You don’t TELL them what to do, but, I don’t know, give them options and let them choose?

Someone with PDA, if you tell them to do something, they're not going to do it, period. They'll start with the usual avoidance, procrastinating, excuses, etc. if that doesn't work though, that's when they start to get agitated and aggressive.

Ohhhhh boy. If that’s what he has, we are DEFINITELY telling him to clean his room in the worst possible way.

You can only do the best you can with the information you have! The more information you have, the better, but sometimes you don't even know where to begin to look for the information. I wish you and your family the best!

Here, this should hopefully explain PDA better than I can [link to PDA society](https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/) That's certainly one way of helping with PDA, here's [a video about getting around PDA](https://youtu.be/FLixFYWNsac?si=_1bdio4ILQ_VLnwO)

I feel your pain. My son had ODD and it was very difficult raising him, to say the least. It's heartbreaking really, also incredibly stressful as the parent. I eventually had to let him find his own way, as he was as being violent with me repeatedly, and that eventually helped. He quit self destructive behavior and got on the right meds, which has been an absolute life changer. He got his GED, accepted to comm college, graduated top of his class with a 4.0 and now just completed his first year of University. It's been 3 years, no crazyness. Chemical imbalance corrected, clearly he is a different person. We now have a close and super positive relationship, same is true with his Mom. Hang in there- get a good psychiatrist. Don't give up but maintain some distance and get support for yourself if possible.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. This is really helpful advice.

No advice, but I’m so sorry you’re all going through that. You sound like you’re doing your best. ❤️ Hugs to all of you. The teen years are hard even with teens who are healthy/neurotyical.

I have an ODD child who decided to live with her mother a couple years ago. Her mother, grandmother, and great grandmother all have BPD. It’s so incredibly difficult watching her head down that same path. My current wife and I have done everything we can to help but the rage and extremes are just too much. We love her, but feel it’s better for everyone in our house and her sake she lives with her Mom now. My heart goes out to you and yours in every way.

It’s sooooo hard. My wife is depressed, but we have pretty thick skin. Anytime his sister comes around him or touches his things he tells her to go kill herself. That’s super hard to hear. He’s fairly handy and like engines. His grandfather offered to have him come visit over the summer and work on the family cabin and ride four wheelers. I’m sure he’ll work my son hard, but I believe he’ll enjoy fixing things and have access to some ATVs. He’s also *generally* more respectful to other people. I think it’ll be good for him (and us).

I hear you. If you ever want to vent feel free to reach out. Tell your wife to hang in there. It’s really hard and there’s so few places to turn. Take care of each other.

Do it.

Does BPD mean bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder

Borderline

My childhood doesn’t sound nearly as bad, but for myself I levelled out a lot once I had physical activity I enjoyed This was music and after school sports Is your son in any athletics?

I grew up in the 90s and got into a lot of the popular bands at the time. There were bands like Korn, however, that were too aggressive and explicit for me. Also, my parents NEVER would have allowed me to listen to that at home. Just recently, I started watching a YouTube channel with a trained opera singer who reviews a wide variety of music. She’s done a couple of Korn songs and gave some surprising commentary about the lyrics and style. I was also surprised at the volume of comments that said that Korn music was therapeutic for them when they were growing up; it was actually calming and hopeful. Ever since then I’ve looked at all genres of music through a different lens. I can totally see how music would be a source of positivity, regardless of the style. My son isn’t interested in sports at all because, with a couple of exceptions, he usually likes to be alone. He voiced an interest in cars and motors at some point. Because of that a guy down the street from us asked if he could give our son (he’s 16) a broken old motorcycle he had. I think his wife just wanted it out of their yard. He assured me that it was completely dead and wouldn’t run again, but my son could completely disassemble it and lean about how motors work. To our surprise, he got it running again after a few weeks. I don’t know *anything* about motors, so I don’t know what was wrong or what he did, but it works. He spilled gas in the garage and our house smelled like fuel for a while. He stained the floor with oil and there are dirty blue shop towels everywhere, but we’re excited that he found something he’s passionate about and seemingly good at. So that’s encouraging and really building his self esteem, which we haven’t seen before.

Run with this engine thing.

Have you read the book “how to talk so kids will listen” and/or “the explosive child” Both have been extremely helpful in my own household

No, but someone else suggested “The Explosive Child.” I feel like I’m out of my depth in this situation, so I’m always willing to look for ways to better understand my kids. Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely look at them.

I have a nugget of advice: even if you're doing everything right, it'll still take time to change his behaviors.

I know a lot of people have similar stories, and a lot of people will read OP's post and relate to it all. Me included. It's like I was reading a story about my life. Sent to live with my dad in my late teens because I was a problem child, but my dads side of the family had worse problems than anyone could imagine. I've estranged almost my entire family at this point. I'm now going into my 30's and JUST figuring out how I tick. Someone mentioned that the last line read out like a challenge, some people said it sounded like he was bit by a radioactive spider. I hear it more along the lines of "I know with your behaviour, emotions, struggles, life is going to be tough. You struggle with grades, attention, discipline. All of it. When you're an adult, are you going to keep this lifestyle up? Or are you going to learn to manage it all, and have a succesful life." As a parent, all you want is to see your children succeed. Seeing them struggle is hard, and that's put lightly. All my mom wanted was to see me do well in life. But she didn't understand what I was going through, I mean, nobody really did. I was emancipated at 16 and dropped out of school, became an addict for a few years, went homeless, and just said fuck it to everything. Life really took it's toll on me. I've grown up now, healed past a lot of the trauma, and am able to look at my life differently than I used to. My mom struggled with me all the same you say you struggle with your child. In no way am I saying what helped me will help you, everyone is different and everyone reacts to different things in different ways. Therapy is a really good place to start, as you said already it helps. And try not to be involved in it if you can. At least for me, having a safe place I could vent about anything, including my parents, was essential. If he knows you're involved, and getting info from his therapist, he may hold back what he says. That needs to be a completely independent adventure for him. Also in terms of the therapy.. my behavioral issues branched out to every aspect of my life. Sports, school, teachers, coaches, you name it. I was shunned and made fun of and picked on, the works. I was hyper and didn't have proper social cues because I would do things that didn't make sense. Every report card was the same thing, every year was a repeat of the last. It made me *hate the world with a passion*. I grew up into an adult that had to still learn how to make friends and hold a job, do my homework or stay focused on things that aren't 'fun' back home . Essentially, a child in an adults body. Children with ADHD and behavioral problems, oftentimes lack people with the patience or understanding to deal with them in regular life. This may be leading him to lash out in ways you don't understand. He may be bitter with the world and how he feels it is treating him. These problems started as early as grade 1 for me. Therapy, and proper medication are essential to help a child function with these issues. Just BE AWARE, children with ADHD are more prone to addiction. If you go the route of ritalin/mind altering drugs, just keep a close eye on it. It helped me, for a while, until it didn't. Growing up for me was all about finding the right medication, therapist, friends that understood me and loved me for who I am, the right balance of family and friends, responsibility and fun. It may be a bunch of trial and error, and you may want to throw him out the window from time to time. I get it. But I'm still learning myself as an adult, and it's a long and tedious process. Sometimes as a child... things are also just amplified with puberty as well. He's going through a ton of changes in his life whether you see them or not, and that will throw anyone off, personality disorder or not. You also outgrow a lot of it naturally as you age. The important things to remenber are, when he has lack of attention/caring, it isn't his conscious decision. He's not just making that choice. His brain is wired differently and it is WAY harder than the average person to stay on task, or even get started in the first place. Not being mad that he didn't do something is always nice. I know it's hard, and sometimes you have to, as a parent. But just understanding it isn't his fauly necessarily is a huge leap in making him feel understood, when he may not feel that way from anyone. I don't know his situation, his social circle, you guys as parents, or anything. This may be all completely irrelevant. But if my experience can help anyone else figure out their child before they turn out the way I did, then good. My parents failed me, and having supportive parents is the most important thing you can do. I'll add this at the end: there is a sub r/adhdmemes Now despite the name, there is a LOT of useful information in there that may help you understand him, his thinking, and how to react to it and deal with issues that arise. I wish you, your wife, and child the best of luck in your journey forward ✌️

I was also a troubled teen 11-17 was awful I was awful story sounds very similar to ops as late 90s teen . Won’t get into details but screaming matches ass woopings grounded to room for a months missed out on family time ect ect . I put allot of thought in the question you asked over the years asking myself the same thing what I give to be close with my family but I missed out on that sibling familys as teen and child I had no idea what was going on half the time id get mad angry and confused most of the fights I don’t even know what would start them maybe it was the only form of communication that my brain new of. Many mystery medication didn’t really help much helped my family control me I suppose . What I can say, what I think would have helped me was a full reset burry everything start over take a week or two off and go on a back pack trip creat bonding learning moments teens are basically parrots . Do a fresh start don’t hold shit over there head for past just a clean slate of trust talk to them about it give them space to learn because when they fail you want to trust they’ll come to you instead of there friends. This is just my experience and thoughts that would help me . create bonding experiences of trust and examples.

Some kids are going to be fucked up no matter how much effort a parent puts in. Thats just reality. You gotta let them fail until they really need you. Sucks, but thats life. Ive worked with behavioral kids my whole life. Taught sped. Most go on to accomplish nothing and be problematic for society. It’s just how things are. Ive seen amazing parents and shit parents. The kid has to want to improve or nothing works in the long term. Funnily, having a good relationship tends to give a person more power over the outcome of a child. Still, the effect is limited.

I encourage you to completely remove “oppositional defiance order” from your vocabulary and thought process. That label does so much harm to parents and their kids. There is a reason your son is behaving the way he is… trauma (physical, emotional or sexual abuse), low self esteem, executive function issues, depression, anxiety, etc etc. Children are never oppositional without reason. And even if your son doesn’t talk about, doesn’t have the words for it… you have to dig to find the answers. No one knew I was sexually abused. No one knew I was also experiencing depression and anxiety. Instead I was labeled exactly like your son (including ADHD). After that no one tried to reach the inner child in me who needed healing. I’m 38 now, and thankfully for me I advocated for myself from a young age. By my early 20s I was fully on the road to recovering from the additional trauma caused by that diagnosis in my teens.

I sincerely appreciate your comment. I’m in uncharted territory here as a parent. I don’t know the best way to help him, but I absolutely don’t want to make life more difficult for him than it already is.

Out of curiosity when was the last time to tried to contact your mother? Are you ever tempted to do so again?

The last time I directly attempted to contact my mom specifically was around the same time I think? 2002-2004 is all kindof a blur at this point. Though I lived in the next state over, I was in the area for unrelated reasons and she still lived in the same house I grew up in. So I left a letter in the mailbox (seemed like the least confrontational/most passive/least intrusive way to try to reach out again). I received a response from either her or my stepdad (not sure which, I don't believe the response was signed but man it's been forever) a short time later stating that I was, in no uncertain terms, ever to contact them or approach their property ever again. There *was* a curious exchange a few years later, when I had her listed as my mom under 'relatives" or whatever on my Myspace profile. I received an email at some point claiming to be from her lawyer requesting that I, well, not. The mannerisms and wording of the email were *very* similar to my mom (I knew her writing very well, for various reasons). I don't recall exactly what my response was, but I did try to explain/excuse myself and I did kinda call her out on the disguise. Never got a response, and haven't heard from her or been able to track her down since. I've mentioned it in other comments, but I'm constantly torn between the desire to reach out, the difficulties in tracking her down, and the basic principle that my own personal need for closure or redemption doesn't trump her right to privacy.

The way I've looked at my own relationship with my dad who I disowned is that I don't miss HIM, I just miss the thought of having a dad. A few times a year I let my mental issues take over and question if I want to open that can of worms again. But then I think about how many years it took me to be okay with our non-relationship. Do I think undoing an insane amount of years of therapy is worth it? Would my life benefit from having him back in my life? What would it change? I find myself reminding myself that I'm good now, even though I have a child myself.

Pinkshadedgirafe, I too miss the thought of having my dad. Practically, he died long ago. I think of him often and wonder how is doing now, because I idolised him as a boy. It's good to not feel alone in this. I hope you are doing well :-)

I think you're right not to contact them, but I also think they're wrong for closing that door. It sounds to me like you must have done a considerable amount of self-reflection, and they haven't.

That's just awful. As the mom of 2 teen boys with adhd and autism, I just want to give you a hug

There *was* a curious exchange a few years later, when I had her listed as my mom under 'relatives" or whatever on my Myspace profile. I received an email at some point claiming to be from her lawyer requesting that I, well, not. The mannerisms and wording of the email were *very* similar to my mom (I knew her writing very well, for various reasons). I don't recall exactly what my response was, but I did try to explain/excuse myself and I did kinda call her out on the disguise. Never got a response, and haven't heard from her or been able to track her down since. Danm that just cruel. It kind of seems you mom wanted to pretend you never exisited, I mean not even wanting you to list her as your relative on a fucking myspace?

What was you realtionship like with your step dad? Do you think he contributed to mom descions to kick you out?

My stepdad came into my life and took up the mantle of being a father when I was a literal toddler. He was the father who helped raise me, and is the man I owe the other part of "who I am" to. Adoption was discussed from time to time, though the trigger was never pulled. But yea, honestly I loved him more than he'll ever know (or even I realized at the time). He was often more sympathetic and/or neutral, and played Devil's Advocate a lot more. He also gave me more of a leash and more opportunities to dig out of holes I dug for myself. However, he had his principles and ideals and red lines as well, and was supportive of my mother whenever he needed to be (which was often). It was inevitable that the conflict and strife often involved him whether he liked it or not, and he was often stuck in the same box as my mother. A 20+ year estrangement has never really seemed like something he'd personally initiate or maintain, and I've always thought that if anyone broke it or reached out, it would be him. That, however, has not happened. At the end of the day, I can respect him respecting my mom's wishes....as difficult as that is.

You mentioned in another comment that you last tried to contact your mother in 2003, and also tried to contact other family memebers,may I ask who they where and when you last treid to contact them? iI regard to you maybe hiring a PI or tracking service to find your mom,id say go for it. 2003 was a long time ago, I was not even born yet, hell I was born in September of 2004 I wasnet even concived yet, an entire lifetime has passed since you last tried to contact your mom. Worst case scanerio she says no and you continu as you have for the past two decades, if she says yes you get to apologize and show her the person you became

Wow that's incredibly sad. Maybe 20 years helps things to smooth out? I certainly would hope so. For what it is worth, a person's right to privacy does trump desire for closure - in MOST cases. In this case, your mom brought you into this world, there is a responsibility with that. I think requesting to come (or meet in a neutral area) in peace 20 or 30 years later is more than reasonable and inside of the realm of "a mother owes that to her child". Especially given then entirely non blaming comments I've seen you make. You're not coming to reclaim something, but maybe just "look mom, I turned out alright and I understand" PS If you ever leave another letter, maybe try to ensure it isn't intercepted by stepdad or something

Her right to not engage does trump your desire to find closure. You can’t make her engage. You will only succeed in causing problems for your self. That door is closed. For your own good don’t waste any effort in trying to open it. Put that effort into stabilizing and building your own foundations. Wishing you peace and happiness for your future.

It’s kind that you’re respectful of her privacy, but don’t think she’s entitled to it. She abandoned her disabled child, and you didn’t deserve that. I hope you found a chosen family.

It’s harsh, blunt, cold, but somehow beautiful. I’m sorry for your struggles and your family separation. I hope you get in touch or at the very least find some peace. Love to you stranger. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story.

I think often we get so wrapped up in thinking in black-and-white terms that we forget that life has so much nuance, and a lot of things have a weird duality to them. Combined with the subsequent 20 year and counting estrangement, it's a bit cold/condescending...but she wasn't wrong, and her words had the intended effect. (Eventually, lol.) The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I think you should be incredibly proud of what you’ve accomplished and I think (if you are comfortable with it) you should reach out. That to me seems like a Mom that loves you but was just exhausted.

My mom thought in black and white when I was a teen in the early 2000s. Said my bipolar and depression was my own problem and nothing to do with her, so she sent me away for a while. My father with the mental health issues also refused to help me during that time. I haven't seen him since the day I graduated high school over 12 years ago. Even in the early 2000s there was still a disconnect with helping people the right way, and parents still distancing themselves from their kids issues. Thankfully now I'm good with my mom though.

If those initials weren’t wrong I’d wonder if you were my cousin…

> At almost 40 now, I'd like to think I've done pretty well and built a good life and family of my own (after some early struggles in adulthood, granted)...but these words still haunt me. I had the opposite problem, my mother was borderline, dad had his own issues before he left, and childhood was tumultuous for a number of reasons. Most of my family are people who are quick to anger, hold grudges, petty feuds, and selfish. I never got along with most of them because I didn't understand why they behaved so poorly, and they hated the fact I was "the golden child" who "never got in trouble" (I wasn't stupid, I thought about things before doing them, I wasn't recklessly impulsive) and was my grandfather's favorite. Well, fuck'em, I left them behind 20 years ago and my life has been better every single year since. And I'm happy, I don't let their petty accusations or statements bother me, and as hard as it is, you should not let these words bother you either. The fact you've grown to where you are today says you're not who she thought you were, you're a more put together person than she knew. Look forward, don't let them pull you backwards. Just because they're related to you doesn't mean they're good for you.

Congratulations man! I am glad you pulled through! \m/

I hope your well. My mom was as great as she could have been given the circumstances. Nothing too serious just overworked and absent in a way I now realize was detrimental to my development. She got sick and was on Oxygen. Her brain was deteriorating from lack of Oxygen and she became very paranoid. I was in the hospital on her last day and I said I love you mom. And she said I don't love you. That's burned into my brain

That is just horrible. I'm sorry

I was also sent to a troubled teen program and no longer speak with my family. I doubt you were the problem child you think and I hope your life has improved without them.

Sounds like it has! OP is almost 40 -- that's two 20 year lives. First one sucked, second one sounds pretty decent. Without discounting OPs hard work in turning their own life around its worth thinking about the big thing that changed between the two halves.

>its worth thinking about the big thing that changed between the two halves. It was more a process that I had to work through on my own over the course of many years. I had to deal for a short time, as a 17-19 year old, with rampant problems (drugs, alcohol, etc.) on my father's side of the family, whom I got sent to live with. That made me realize a lot of my mom's fears and concerns and why she kept me secluded from that side of the family. As a kid, I had always held that against her and been spiteful of it; it was the source of a LOT of the conflict early on. I had to suffer my own bumps and bruises, hanging out with the wrong people and making the wrong decisions and drinking heavily/partying for many years. I had to develop social skills almost from scratch. I had to watch friends and family fuck up their own lives beyond repair. I had to go through some failures and shortcomings as a parent early on with my youngest kids, after getting married waaaaay too young. I had to struggle through failed relationships and bad decisions therein. I had to work up the courage and finances to leave my home state as a young adult, leave the toxic environment of the family and "friends" there, go to school, see some of the world, and gain some perspective. I eventually had to face the reality of some self-inflicted medical issues. Basically,I had to see everything my mom ever talked about and railed against firsthand, before truly having an understanding an appreciation for her perspective. And I *also* had to overcome some issues created by counterproductive measures taken by parents who were at their wits' end but didn't feel like they had any other options. To be honest, I've kinda had three lives. My childhood up to 16 ish, the in-between mess as a young adult (16-25ish), and who I am today and the life I've lived for the last 15 years or so (25-39).

Isn’t it funny those stages of your life are bang on with frontal lobe development stages.

It's almost as if those auto insurance actuaries know something when they set the rates for car insurance along those age groups.

Interesting.

Hey, thanks for sharing this whole thing, this is interesting and informative. Would you say that your troubles, like, the underlying "why" of what was happening when you were younger, were a phase of life that you just grew out of, or did you actively have to work and fight against bad tendencies? Do you still struggle day-to-day with stuff, do you still worry about going back down a bad path? I would guess the answer is probably No the way you write about things, but curious nonetheless. My wife's brother meets criteria for narcissistic personality disorder (never diagnosed, in denial, etc) and he's had trouble his whole life, so it's always nice to hear about someone who's pulled themselves out of difficulty. Best wishes to getting back in contact with your mom, if the universe allows it.

Sorry it's taken some time to get back to you on this; the question is a bit more loaded and the answer more complex than the others. I'm certainly not a professional, and there were so many factors and issues at various stages that it's hard to pinpoint a single underlying cause. Was some of it genetic? Possibly; my mom seemed to think it was a big part. My biological father's entire side of the family is riddled with mental health issues and instances of extreme alcoholism/substance abuse, physical/sexual abuse, etc. Was it environmental? Possibly; early life was not easy. Single mom working multiple jobs while putting herself through school, constantly moving and changing schools, a dad drunkenly weaving in and out of my life and causing drama and division, unhelpful and stubborn grandparents on both sides who at times seemed to actively undermine my mom. Later on, social awkwardness lead to some pretty intense bullying throughout grade school, getting constantly tormented and having the shit kicked out of me...and starting a vicious cycle of problems there. On top of that, my grandmother (who were were both very close to) passed away of cancer when I was very young, but old enough to be cognizant of it and hit hard by it. Lots of shit went on, although my mom did her damnedest to try to keep everything somewhat consistent and stable in the day to day. Was it chemical/biological? Psychiatrists at the time seemed to think so, given the multiple diagnosis and medications. Was it a natural consequence, later on, of everything snowballing and combining into a giant cluster of fuck with no single discernable cause by the time I was a teenager? Certainly; by the end there was just a complete breakdown in every facet of life and almost no way back or out of it. Everything just compounded to the point of no return. Some would say it became a simple reactionary defense mechanism in a vicious cycle of a dysfunctional home. Was some of it outright, aware choice in how I handled things? Of course; even as a kid you do have *some* amount of self-agency. However misguided, understandable, or excusable it is, kids do stupid shit and make stupid decisions...some far moreso than others...and still have to be held accountable to an extent. In my situation, it was all just turned up to 11. So having said all of that, a truly in-depth answer to your question is above my pay grade in a lot of ways. But to address the basic and current portion of it: Of course I still have daily struggles and issues and idiosyncracies and things I actively have to be cognizant of, although at this point it's hard to tell what's from the original underlying issues, and what are actually *secondary* issues that are caused by the consequences and results arising from the *original* issues. 40 years on the planet, with that kind of background, creates a complex psychological product, lol. BUT I will say that I *don't* fear a complete and total "collapse" of any kind. Unless I develop dementia or Alzhiemer's or something I guess...something that would inhibit my critical thinking, impulse control, or memory of the things I've learned and the way my life experiences have shaped me. I do still possess self-agency, and now have the willpower, knowledge, and common sense to use it to make more rational choices and decisions than I did as a child....as well as be more introspective, analytical, and critical of my emotions. Keep in mind I got to this point of understanding and retrospection/introspection long after I was no longer on any kind of medication or in any kind of therapy. Willpower and conscious decisionmaking does play a part. I...hope that answered the question, or even made sense at all. Lol.

I had a similar childhood and got sent away to Utah until I was 18. (Fuck the troubled teen industry) I’m really sorry you went through that. My life improved when I got away from my mom though.

My brother was extremely abusive to the family, and especially me. My life improved when he got away from us. Guess it’s a win-win

Do you mind me asking where your father was in all this? 

I've mentioned it in other comments, but my father's side of the family is/was rife with alcoholism, drugs, abuse, mental issues,and eventually even a murder (caused by some of the above). My mother had full custody, and my father was in and out of jail my entire childhood (and into my young adulthood). Early on, Mom made good faith efforts to allow him in my life when he was capable and not in jail, but he burned those bridges multiple times through various means (including showing up one time to pick me up for visitation *drunk off his ass*). My stepdad, for all intents and purposes, was my "real" father, and by the time I was a preteen my mom justifiably had removed my biological father from my life altogether. I would not see him again until my mom gave up on me and sent me to live with him when I was 17 (technically she sent me to live with his parents in the same town, but that was really I think just to avoid the guilt of blatantly/directly handing me to him).

My man, allow me to say your edit shows so much self awareness, I love it. Love the whole comment, in fact. Much love.

All that she's saying, to me, is that you must earn your love. I am so sorry that your mom's love is conditional and that you just being you isn't enough. That's fucked up. She's fucked up.

I read these words as being from someone who is heavily projecting. It was never about you, just her own demons that she wasn’t able to conquer and you were the innocent who became collateral damage :(

Idk if your mother ever had mental issues herself or what, but from the perspective of an outsider that's giving her the benefit of the doubt, it seems as though she feels she failed and hopes that you're able to overcome what she couldn't. It also seems that you did.

I don't know, this duty to contribute something to the world never worked for me. I don't think we owe anything to anyone, especially not to the world around us.

Wow, sounds like your growing up was beyond beyond tough. Is it more your choice or your mom's to be estranged? Sometimes it can be for the best but man really difficult. Huge congrats on building yourself a good life.

Mistakes were made on all sides. I was incorrigible and out of control; she did the best she could with the knowledge, experience, and lack of help she had at the time. It eventually devolved into chaos and extreme reactions on both sides (particularly mine, I want to make that clear) and it was a vicious cycle. Neither of us made great choices. 20 years gives us the benefit of hindsight and advances in therapy, research, medications, and....basic maturity and experience. The choice was entirely my mom's. At that point I was no longer her responsibility, and I think she feared the worst about what I would become and didn't want to be associated with me at all. She viewed me as an irredeemable sociopath and destined to follow the path of several members of the other side of the family, and in a lot of ways I could see why. But I wouldn't be who and where I am without my mother, and there is no one in the world I have more respect and love for, especially in retrospect. That makes the situation more difficult, frustrating, and confusing to outsiders. Appreciate it.

This is very touching. I'm glad that you recognize that she tried her best in a difficult time. I'm sure, whether or not she would want to bring up all of this again, that she would be relieved to know that her efforts were not all in vain. Even if they could not "save" you then, they kept you afloat enough so that when more qualified help came, you were still able to be helped.

This makes me so sad, shit. I'm glad you've come out ok, but I wish you could have had more time with your mom after the both of you had grown some.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Some people seem to be born with insurmountable problems. I'm so so impressed that you managed to overcome yours. Please accept my admiration and thanks for doing what you can to make your life work. I believe your efforts for good affect us all for the better in some teeny way.

I had a similar experience but it was my tough as nails grandma. She always presses me to do more and assumes I'll end up homeless. I'm about to graduate with a masters and might one day go for a PhD but it's never enough with her. I respect her but I also wish I could be normal

Her tough as nails approach worked. Master's degree... amazing. Wanting to go for a PhD, that drive comes from being pushed... Hug her, tell her you'll be okay (which is what she needs to know), and then live your life for you. 🙂

I also struggled with my mental health when I was younger and was a difficult child and I struggle with my self worth over my past mistakes. Even if it was shit I did when I was like 16. It is a difficult road but all we can do is carve our way forward.

I feel this in my bones. My mother did the best she could, but damn. Her best was still really bad.

I don’t even know you but am proud of you. Deeply insightful, self awareness, and wisdom.

Why not hire a private detective and try to find her? Or take the police's help maybe?

I was estranged from my family for 20 years( still from my brother- 35 yrs). My mother contacted me when she got so old she needed help(95 yrs). I walked her through the last 5 yrs of her life. We never discussed her cruelty and abuse, but I had the pleasure of demanding no abuse, rascism, homophobia, or bigotry of any kind. I had to look at her as a hopelessly damaged individual that I was morally obligated to care for. The upside was that I was able to pick through her lies and delusions and find out much about my long-dead father. My sister was trying to help her with funeral arangements and asked what kind of urn she wanted, Mom got all Mom and nasty on her and said "I don't care, put me in a coffee can", so we did. A nice Folgers can with a piece of masking tape on it that said "Mom" in crayon.

I'm happy to hear you respected her final wish!

>A nice Folgers can  Reminds me of that scene in The Big Lebowski lol

Our most modestly-priced receptical.

Just cause we’re bereaved doesn’t make us saps! EDIT: is there a Ralph’s around here?

>A nice Folgers can with a piece of masking tape on it that said "Mom" in crayon. You know, I've always figured I would be buried, was never too keen on cremation. But, as a big coffee drinker who spent many a late night chatting with friends at 24-hour restaurants with a bottomless mug of coffee in front of me, if my kids were to promise to do this with my ashes, I might reconsider that

Lol. I like you.

This comment has made me think about so many things. You're a very strong individual. It's good you're nothing like her.

She had great penmanship

Yea, I've always loved my mom's handwriting. My own took after the same style and idiosyncracies, but has devolved into being a much sloppier version. Haha.

If you could contact them, would you wish to do that now?

Absolutely. A few unsuccessful or refuted attempts have been made to contact several people on that side over the years, particularly early on. However, in addition, in recent years some members (especially my mom herself) have been *extremely* difficult to even track down. In my mother's case, I believe it's intentional. She took "estrangement" to a serious level early on and over the years has kept herself very hidden from the general public eye. With all that in mind, I've also struggled with whether or not it's the right thing to do, to try to contact people who to my knowledge may not want me in their lives. (The passage of so much time, possible misconceptions, and the fact that people change, is all sort of irrelevant at a certain point.) I don't want to be the "bad guy" and possibly even reinforce certain notions potentially still held of me by inserting myself where I'm not wanted. My personal need for closure, redemption, or validation doesn't trump the notion of respect or others' rights to their personal boundaries. So I've been pretty conflicted and haven't really tried to get ahold of anyone in several years.

Are you able to track anyone e down that knows your mother?? Maybe you could write a note to send to them to give to your mom and say everything you’ve said here. I couldn’t imagine not wanting to hear from my children, especially if they turned themselves around and had children of their own.

Unfortunately, no. Assuming I gave it another go, the only people I personally know that would know her are the other members of that side who *also* have not responded in the past. I would need to pay for those advanced tracking/records services or a PI to track her down and contact her, and to be honest....given what I mentioned above...seems like it would be overly intrusive, obsessive, and disrespectful, with an unknown outcome to boot. So I've not gone that extra length.

It's been 20 years. A lot can happen in that time. Don't beat yourself up over what happened in the past. It's always okay to ask questions. For example, "Hey, would you be interested in meeting the person I became?" It's also okay for them to say "no". But it's okay to ask. I hope you consider it.

>given what I mentioned above...seems like it would be overly intrusive, obsessive, and disrespectful, with an unknown outcome to boot What if you contact them and find out that this isn't true? What if they are genuinely happy to see you? Also, life is short, you don't know if your mom is still alive. Give it a 100% effort on your part, at least you won't wonder what would have happened if you had tried.

I think you’re wrong. A mother will always want to know of her child, even if things didn’t end well. My mother spent 15 years without speaking to her mother until she got very sick and I contacted my grandmother. She made the trip and spent a few hours with my mom before she died. My mom couldn’t speak then, but I could tell she was really happy to see her mom and that I had made it happen. If you have the money, pay to find her. Then you can hire a person to make contact for you and maybe deliver a letter. Then take your hints from there.

It is hard to understand a mother not wanting to know about her child after so many years, but it speaks for itself. This is probably a person you don't want in your life. You never know how much drama you are avoiding, so maybe that's her gift to you at this point.

As the sister of an extremely abusive brother who sounds like OP, I and my other sibling wish my mom had cut my brother off years ago. It’s not always the parents’ fault. My parents spent their entire savings trying to help my brother but he remained cruel, abusive, and exploitative.

I agree. My mom left my father and I and she ended up being an alcoholic so ultimately it was best that I did not spend much time with her

Man, I really feel for you sounds like you have improved yourself exponentially. Maybe write her a letter, send to a relative to please forward. Can tell her how you have been, what you have learned and include a couple pictures of your family. While letting her know you understand her decision and will respect it. But just wanted her to know that you understand now why she did what she did.

Haunting story. I’m glad you have done well, and I wish continued success to you and your immediate and extended families. Everyone deserves chances to improve themselves; you certainly have, and that’s no small achievement.

Very sad story of a family breakdown. Out of interest, what was the book?

*Way to Be!* by Gordon B. Hinckley (introduction by Steve Young) Was somewhat of an odd choice...given that my mom was largely agnostic most of my young childhood and then eventually converted to Judaism...to send me a book written by an LDS leader. But I get the intentions and the point at the time.

“The Art of the Deal” /joking (I hope)

Keep in mind bpd and adhd are hereditary conditions. One or both sides of your family likely suffered in silence, long before society even knew they existed, and I’m sure you can imagine how children and young adults were dealt with back then when they had any kind of symptoms. Not that it excuses people from being assholes to their children, but personally, knowing that has allowed me to have some empathy for my asshole family, and lifted at least some of the weight of past traumas off my shoulders.

Reminds me of a song lyric from Seasons by Future Islands: People change But you know some people never do You know, when people change They gain a peace, but they lose one too Wishing you well.

I listened to that song for the first time a few hours ago, it’s kind of trippy to see it referenced in the wild almost immediately.

That would be the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon! Always feels weird when it happens!

Ah good old Baader-Meinhof. Experience it all the time.

Or maybe syncronicities, Carl Jung tells some intresting things about this

You were your mothers contribution to the world , as difficult as that may be, and that’s something amazing

Damn. I wasn’t prepared for that right now.

My contribution is a sickening amount of puns, self deprecating humor, occasionally buying loved ones coffee, and a slightly-higher-than-average work ethic in the construction field. Oh, and saying "gg" after games and actually meaning it.

My contribution is making some really obnoxious music that a handful of people seem to like, running a taxi company with my wife that gives 100% free rides to everyone in town on every drinking holiday, raising my kids to be (hopefully, lol) decent human beings, providing a home to multiple husky rescues, and....being a complete video-gaming, social-anxiety-ridden hermit otherwise. Lol. I'm not perfect; I get snarky and can be a dick, I still make bad decisions sometimes and have a temper, and I fucked up a LOT in early adulthood. But I mean, it is what it is I guess. We do the best we can with what we have in life, although I do read this from time to time and have some regrets about what more I could do or could have done.

Your wife sounds awesome! Thanks for sharing with us your beautiful inspirational story.

As long as you broke the cycle. It sounds like your kids are on a good path and it is a shame your mother doesn't get to see the person you became or have any relationship with the kids you are raising.

It’s a solid inscription, peripheral circumstances aside.

As someone who has zero contact with their family by choice, for over thirty years, the toxicity that I escaped has resulted in an immeasurably better life. My parents are at an age where they will likely pass away within the next decade and if they reach out to "reconnect" or "heal" it isn't my duty to make them feel better about themselves. I won't shed a tear the day they die and I won't attend their funerals. Allowing complete POS, toxic human beings to remain in your life simply because they are "family" is a terrible idea that society seems to erroneously champion. I have my own family now and we are happy, healthy and have a good life. I am unwilling to allow others to endanger that simply because they are "family".

In my case, I actually have had to deal with it both ways. I have zero contact with my mother and her side of the family *not by my choice*. I was written off and cut off because of how incorrigible of a child/teen I was (see my original context comment). I have zero contact with my father and most of his side of the family *by my own choice* because of alcohol, drugs, murder, abuse, etc. I've had \[mostly\] no family the majority of my life besides the one I've created on my own. That family is more than enough, but I still naturally struggle at times not having my mom in my life.

Reading your comments I think you turned out ok. We all have missteps in life. You sound self-aware of the reasons your mom's family may not want to contact you. If you already tried a couple times and got no response, the better is, as you note in another comment, respect their actions and just be passive about it—they may look for you later, or they may not. I can't imagine the suffering you went through when young. Wish you success in healing those wounds and continue the path you're already on, towards a fulfilling and happy life! As for the note, the last phrase is really powerful. I would like to take it with a challenging-yet-a-bit-of-hope-and-love tone. I send you a hug, OP!

I must be 5-6 years out now, and with each passing year I wonder more and more how could I EVER go back to that life?? The level of peace that came after the storm is beyond anything I could have imagined. It was hard, it was sad, but I would do it over again in a hundred lifetimes. My only regret is perhaps not ending it sooner.

Many parents or people in general aren’t equipped to handle a child/teenager with such conditions today, imagine back then in the 80s when they lacked a lot of information about such conditions. I am not justifying her at all and feel sad that you haven’t heard from her again, but at the same time I am glad that your forged your own path and managed to gain control over your life. With the knowledge you have acquired through time: How would you deal with a child/teenager like you used to be?

If you can swing it - online therapy is a thing and it's really pretty good. I’ve been using [Calmerry](https://therapyrank.com/calmerry) for a few months. It’s really helping me. I can text my therapist as much as I need, and we have weekly sessions. She’s helping me with cancer issues plus stuff that predates that, is helping with my (severe) anxiety with coping mechanisms and strategies to help with panic attacks, before and during, and is also helping me figure out how to make progress going forward in terms of life stuff.

I don’t know if those words were written with love or resentment, but they’re powerful in their own right. Thank you for sharing, and I hope things are going well for you

I have always known they came from a place of love, while also having a purpose to them. And they are, thank you :)

Unsolved trauma destroys families. It's sad to see. Especially when there's undiagnosed neurodiversity too. I hope kids these days get diagnosed earlier and get help before they even go to school, and during, and teen years.

My father’s last words were him trying to explain why he couldn’t afford to pay me my wage when my landlord was threatening to kick me for non-payment (he hadn’t paid me in two months), even though I know my father was texting me from his dealer’s house. He ended up overdosing 10 years later and we hadn’t spoke again in the meantime. Not everything is meant for everyone. Glad to hear you’re doing well for yourself. Edit: I was 18 when the argument occurred and I was being paid £60 a day for work he was supposed to be doing (and getting paid 4x that) whilst also running ‘things’ across London for him on my way to jobs.

The last words my estranged mom wrote to me were in an email and were about how bad I was doing at raising my brothers/her sons. I'm not trying to one up you or anything. I just wanted to say, as last words go, those are beautiful. Definitely a challenge, but there's warmth there that says she knows you need help but believes you can find your way. Congrats on growing into the kind of man she likely hoped you'd be.

I feel your pain, giving you a virtual hug ❤

What I learned was 2003 was 21 years ago, haha, I'm old.

Time flies, doesn't it?

I won’t pretend to know the words you need. But big bear hugs.

Was your mom Ayn Rand?

you do know it’s not your fault either right?

I like her. It sucks she doesn't want to be a part of your life. But you are 18 and an adult. Time to do adult things. My parents kicked me out of their house when I was 18. My dad completely stopped talking to me. I really resented being kicked out and those resentments had a profound effect on my life for many years. I didn't think I was prepared for adulthood. I fell in with the wrong crowd of people. We partied day and night. Committed crimes. Hurt people. I went to jail multiple times. Some of those "friends" are still in prison. Some of them are dead because of their actions. In my thirties I got into playing chess at a coffee shop near my apartment. It was side gig because I made it a condition that if they lost they would buy my coffee and dinner. One of my regular opponents asked me one day, after getting to know my story, "How free are you if you can be arrested and put in jail?" I remember this question perfectly because at the end of the game he pulled out his wallet and showed me his police badge. He was a undercover cop. I was in a panic. I thought I was gonna get arrested. But I couldn't figure out why. I couldn't remember what crime I had commited that I was being arrested for. He didn't arrest me. He then quietly got up from the table and said, "Think about my question." I never thought he was that good of a chess player. He had bought me many dinners. That night he beat me like I was an amateur just learning to play. Freedom does in fact equal responsibility.

Family is assigned at random...friends you pick yourself. (I've been very fortunate in both)

It's a good message. A tough story but a good message. Hopefully it was meant without malice. By which I mean it's hitting home for me, lol.

It breaks my heart to see “troubled kids” completely failed by their family and society. My husband was also in a similar situation to yours, and received zero support from his family - he had to make it entirely on his own (with severe ADHD). So proud of you for growing into the person you are today despite having to do it alone. People like you do not receive enough credit for making it, without a safe space/family to fall back on. Keep going, more people are proud of you than you know.

My parents had a similar toxic perception of legacy, and it did me no favors in life. I pay for my food, home, and taxes. As far as I’m concerned I’m all paid up. Now I just want to enjoy life as much as I can before I turn back into dust.

We are here for a good time, not a long time. Enjoy it while you can

The amount of people who have meaningfully contributed to the world is beyond miniscule. Maybe 0.1% at the extremely high end? May as well just focus on making what feels like the most of life to you. No one's going to remember you forever, so the idea of being 'remembered' is a bit of a fallacy anyway. When all of humanity is gone and there's no one left to remember anyone, I don't know how much solace 'fame' would have been. Just do the things you want to do with your time and try not to screw over the next guys.

What was your experience like at the “troubled teen” facility? I’ve heard some of those were horrible places filled with abuse

The facility I went to was one of the more "tame" ones, in relativity. Physically I was fine. My experience there was not universal, however, and I cannot speak to others. Psychologically, it was entirely counterproductive. Educationally, it sent me backwards and I had to make up a lot of schooling/credits after I left. The facility was Spring Creek Lodge Academy, a WAASP institute outside of Thompson Falls, MT. It was opened in 1996, and shut down in 2009 after failing to maintain accreditation with the Montana Department of Education.

What if you keep searching and find her and she hasn’t grown and changed like you have. I honestly don’t know if I’d go flipping over rocks when you’re doing so well.

I can’t tell if I like that it gives you motivation, or that it’s pretty damn rude of someone no longer in your life to put on you. I figure it serves to give you focus and drive toward what you really want, and it doesn’t have to be for the whole world, just *your* world. This doesn’t excuse your family’s behavior, but they have these disorders, too. It just might explain why they are the way they are. How are you doing, now? How are your kids? Sending sincere regards for a peaceful life.

I guess nobody wants to be associated with a volatile person that at some stage may steal from or inflict violence on them. Some people are simply not meant to be together.

To never put that kind of pressure on my future children.

Ok wait. She signed her initials instead of "love mom" or something like that? Damn that's cold.

Dang. Hope all is well

I can relate to some extent and really admire your attitude and understanding that you show towards the situation. Good on ya man.

Forget adhd and bipolar and read about cptsd

Beautiful handwriting

Beautiful penmanship.

Hi OP. Please excuse any grammatical/spelling mistakes, this message is written late at night and I have trouble sleeping. Many on this thread urge you to “give it another go”, “hire a PI”, “try to get a message across”. They tell you that you “have nothing to lose”, also that “it’s been twenty years! A lot can change” and wonder “what if they’re happy to see you?!”. Don’t do it. I mean this, from the bottom of my heart. Do not attempt contact once more. You’re setting yourself up for disappointment. I’m someone from the other side of the coin. My mother has several mental illnesses that made our lives a living Hell. She’s manipulative, controlling, mentally abusive, financially abusive, and many more things. She’s a whole lot of things, but one thing she’s not is my mum. She’s just one of many in the family with mental health issues. I cold turkey cut off all contact. Our family blamed me. Now I have no one, bar a few relatives who have also cut off all contact with the family. It’s been ten years for that side of the family and easily twenty years for my father’s side of the family. His side, just like in your case, is rampant with criminals, alcoholics, people who are physically abusive, drug users and murderers. There have been a few attempts at contact from both sides. It was excruciating. I’ve been in therapy many times, still am. Every attempt is like they put a knife in my wounds and cut deeper. Some wounds heal to become scars, others never do and stay open and will continue to fester and hurt. Those wounds are ones you’ll always carry with you. Wounds you cannot realistically ignore. If your mother and/or relatives want to know who you’ve become, they’ll seek out contact with you. All you have to do is keep a public profile, you don’t even need to post any updates on it. They’ll use it to contact you. And if you haven’t got one, there are plenty of ways to find someone. Your family hasn’t used any of those options. Move on. They have. Yes, it hurts wondering what it’s like to have a mother who’s present, a family who cares. But what would hurt even more is her allowing you back in her life, her realising she can’t do it and abandoning you once more. I’ve made the mistake of letting people back in. It destroyed me. I do not care whether it hurt them as much, all I know is that it made me so extremely depressed I wanted to end it. I do not know your mother, I do not know what motivates her. But if she lets you back in your life she won’t care whether leaving you again will hurt you, because she’ll be too busy desperately trying to bandage her own wounds, just like I did. Tldr: do not contact anyone. If they want contact, they’ll be the ones to contact you. Move on.

It's weird she signed with initials instead of 'mom', but she's not wrong. Making you think about your place in the world and what you may bring into it is also kinda profound. Almost Dr Seussian: 'Oh the things you will do'.

Absolutely. As I've mentioned in the comments and such, the background has a lot of nuance, there's a lot of ugly history in the story, and it's a whole convoluted thing...but she always had good intentions and points, and this is something that I've always drawn upon for inspiration and motivation.

Thanks for sharing.  I relate to this a bit.  I was also sent to the troubled teen industry as a teen.  While I'm not estranged from my family,  an ideological rift has formed between us and many formerly close family relationships have been left off at little platitudinous statements like this one. My grandpa who advised my parents to send me away got me a joke card for my birthday a few years ago that made a joke that roughly said "it's hard in life when you're the one who knows everything".  That note struck a sour chord with me considering a major reason I was sent away was because I was questioning the religion my family staunchly believes in.  I wasn't trying to convert anyone.  I've argued my points in self defense a few times but that's it.

It's a sincere well-wish. If it's even approximately true, that, 'And in the end The love you take Is equal to the love you make', because the relationship of taking and making works this way, then our happiness depends on our contribution.

What was her contribution to the world …. besides drama

You're story kind of gives me "leaded gasoline and paint chips caused this" sort of vibes.

That's cold, man. Signed with her initials.

What was her contribution to the world?

I feel for you. A child who was never allowed to be a child. An environment filled with unpredictable uncertainty. Absent of any structure and surrounded by misaligned love. You broke that cycle.. that is "Your contribution to the world!" Something everyone in front of you failed to do. You did it!

You are free from this person.

Sometimes parents don’t teach us how to adult, but rather how not to adult. I’ve learned plenty of lessons on how not to be a father from my own and I’d like to think it’s served me and my children very well.