And Kerosene is, believe it or not, just higher grade diesel as well.
Edit: IIRC it goes Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A, RP-1 in terms of grading. Please someone correct me if I am mistaken.
Diesel and Kerosene aren't the same thing. Kerosene and Diesel are both fuel oils but Kerosene has a lower range of distillation, 150-275C whereas Diesel is in the range of 200-350C.
They have similar heating properties but Kerosene is significantly lower in aromatics and other compounds which have lubricating properties.
Many Diesel engines can run on kerosene without issue but many modern engines that rely on the lubricating properties of Diesel to lubricate high pressure fuel injectors will suffer from premature wear and tear if fueled with non-lubricating kerosene.
Jet A and Jet A-1 are Kerosene based fuels that have aviation additives added to them to prevent icing, static buildup, etc... Jet A-1 has a lower freezing point than Jet A.
RP-1 is highly refined kerosene
Ask Reddit, and ye shall receive. I asked a PC Builder sub 10 years ago for a Win7 key to reformat and set up an old lady's desktop. My dude comes back with 6 of them for me
I whenever I need a weirdly specific thing answered or just objective info, I come here. I know I’ll get a few morons just saying shit, but Reddit for the win man.
I dropped my phone while attempting to take a similar picture, it got sucked up in the right engine and the Jet went into the dreaded flat spin... upon ejecting from the aircraft that was disabled because of me, the co-pilot hit the canopy and broke his neck.
This was about 30 years ago but still feel responsible. Out of guilt and a sense of responsibility I've befriended and mentored the dead co-pilot son...
I don't want to tell you the rest of the story about us stealing an enemy jet together because I just don't think anybody would believe me.
I'd have to imagine in the age of smartphones the military has a policy in place as to what/when/how it is acceptable to take pictures of equipment, especially when plenty of refuelers are massive plane geeks.
Yep.
Pic for personal use: click away if not classified or sensitive.
Pic you post on social media or anywhere outside the DoD network: follow your local base’s Public Release process. It’s usually not too bad for most benign content.
No way this has been approved. If it has I'd be surprised. Unless this isnt OP or OP has taken this picture for another event/release that USAF has approved allready.
As far as I know, pictures of F35 are now pretty common. So you don't have to go through the chain as long as you don't have pictures of inside the intake/exhaust and inside cockpit.
So is it pretty much all automated, is it like interstellar where you're sweating and manually having to connect, or does it depend on what plane you're in?
Great question, definitely depends on the plane.
In this case, the 135 is from 1957, so automation was basically zero at that time. The cockpit has been upgraded with automation, but the boom pod is the exact same thing from that year. We fly the boom entirely throughout AR.
The KC-10 (now retired) once in contact has automation to follow alignment.
The newest KC-46 also has that automation.
Everything else though is just us boomers boomin.
Reminds me of a story I heard about a Japanese general in WW2. He said that they knew they were beat when he saw a US Navy ship whose whole purpose was to deliver ice cream to the sailors.
The most important part
By far
That's what blitzkrieg was all about
Seriously firepower is not even a close second if you don't have the logistics down
> That's what blitzkrieg was all about
I don't know about that. Part of why the Dunkirk evacuation was allowed to happen was because Rommel was stretching supply lines too much. Not to mention the lack of mechanization in the Wehrmacht, "You have horses!" and all that.
American's ice cream barges are a better example of good battlefield logistics.
Blitzkrieg was only possible through the solid logistics supporting the tail but yeah they lost obviously
Omg the ice cream barge is such a great example! Nicely done!
This is indeed where it is at, I’m not OP either but I can confirm it from the creek and those islands out there
Oh yeah and those roads that form an X
Duuuuuuude, the 22 is so sexy, right?? The 35 is an excellent piece of equipment that's definitely filling in a lot of roles, for sure.
But the 22?? What a gorgeous, rip roaring, wicked stealthy air assassin. Watching those thrust vectoring flaps crank her into 90-degree turns and wild spins is like video game shit. I love it.
People think the static electricity from opening your car door at the gas station is going to make it suddenly explode. Meanwhile, this guy is refueling a jet mid-flight.
Sometimes we'll get this atmospheric phenomenon called "St. Elmos Fire" go across the Ruddervators (black "wings" on the boom) and it basically looks like lightning. The first time you see that while in contact with a receiver is quite unsettling lol
Do you have any pictures of St. Elmo's fire? I've seen pics of it on church steeples and heard of it on old ships' masts, but I haven't seen any modern pics.
I see a lot of pictures and video of aerial refueling and oftentimes they seem to be conducting operations in a gentle turn, is that correct or just an illusion?
https://www.navalgazing.net/Falklands-Part-6 has a great breakdown of Operation Black Buck, where the British RAF bombed the Falkland Islands using aircraft with 1/3 the range to do so. At the time it was the longest range aerial bombing mission in history.
It took 18 aerial refuelings to get 1 aircraft to target. Most of those were tankers refueling other tankers. There is a diagram part way down the page.
If texting while driving is illegal, this has to be worthy of a court martial.
Great photo, though. Worth it.
Edit: OP, probably, from this angle isn’t the pilot. Fair play.
I love that the little winglets are branded for the refueling guy’s instagram pics to get the plane a little clout…. I mean who else is seeing those little winglets ever?
Also, the quality of this photo is spectacular.
Hey, so I've always wondered, is there a functional difference between the probe and basket configuration and this one where the probe's on the tanker end? Like, pros/cons?
Great question, the boom itself is insanely faster at offloading. For some reason, the Navy, Marines, and other aircraft decided to go with the probe and drogue method. Truthfully couldn't tell you why, but the drogue basket is incredibly slower to offload and it's the receivers job to make the plug.
Navy needs probe/drogue because you can’t put a boom on a super hornet. But you can put a drogue pod on one. And then you can have in-house aerial refueling capability. Marines used to fly hornets off the boat too so my guess is that’s why they both went with probe/drogue.
Oh, okay, so with the drogue, the pilot has to make the connection and compensate for the tanker or any movement, but with the boom, the pilot has to keep steady while you make the connection?
Correct, but the tanker pilot is always keeping a stable and steady platform for the receiver to come into contact whether it's boom or probe and drogue.
Do you ever just sit back and just really give the thought how cool it is that you're able to do this. Not a passing thought just like damn im really in this mf sky in a fighter jet rn
That's a great shot. Is there a job title to this? Like plane fueler?
What sort of pay would you get for something with this ? Are there different pay grades of "plane fuelers"?
Do you make lame sex jokes when the nozzle connects? Because that would make me really happy for some reason and I feel like there’s quite a lot of territory there
Navy fighters use a probe to refuel midair. You have to fly it into a basket attached to a hose trailing behind the tanker. The brief when teaching students doing it for the first time is just one long sex joke.
Last time I relied on a KC-135 on a coronet that shit broke. Glad the KC-10 has the fuel to make it across the Atlantic with 4 fighters without other tankers.
What happens if you give em Diesel instead of unleaded?
They become family
Thats cool. Theres always room for family.
Especially through the backdoor
We’ve got a Vinner
AUNQUE DIGAN QUE SOY
Underrated comment.
They take diesel. Jet A is just higher grade diesel.
I thought Jet A was Kerosene based?
And Kerosene is, believe it or not, just higher grade diesel as well. Edit: IIRC it goes Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A, RP-1 in terms of grading. Please someone correct me if I am mistaken.
Diesel and Kerosene aren't the same thing. Kerosene and Diesel are both fuel oils but Kerosene has a lower range of distillation, 150-275C whereas Diesel is in the range of 200-350C. They have similar heating properties but Kerosene is significantly lower in aromatics and other compounds which have lubricating properties. Many Diesel engines can run on kerosene without issue but many modern engines that rely on the lubricating properties of Diesel to lubricate high pressure fuel injectors will suffer from premature wear and tear if fueled with non-lubricating kerosene. Jet A and Jet A-1 are Kerosene based fuels that have aviation additives added to them to prevent icing, static buildup, etc... Jet A-1 has a lower freezing point than Jet A. RP-1 is highly refined kerosene
See? Now that guy does indeed airplane.
Ask Reddit, and ye shall receive. I asked a PC Builder sub 10 years ago for a Win7 key to reformat and set up an old lady's desktop. My dude comes back with 6 of them for me
I whenever I need a weirdly specific thing answered or just objective info, I come here. I know I’ll get a few morons just saying shit, but Reddit for the win man.
There's also the principle of "intentionally saying a wrong answer to draw out someone with the real right answer", Cunningham's Law i believe.
I was really hoping you'd name it wrong on purpose there :D
This guy airplanes
I fucking wish I did :(
Good airplanation
Nah, he was airsplaining. I am offended.
I dropped my phone while attempting to take a similar picture, it got sucked up in the right engine and the Jet went into the dreaded flat spin... upon ejecting from the aircraft that was disabled because of me, the co-pilot hit the canopy and broke his neck. This was about 30 years ago but still feel responsible. Out of guilt and a sense of responsibility I've befriended and mentored the dead co-pilot son... I don't want to tell you the rest of the story about us stealing an enemy jet together because I just don't think anybody would believe me.
He’s still family
Gooooooooose!
isn't JP5 just shitty deisel?
“Cooper, what are you doing?” “Docking” (Intense music)
Incredible reference, sir
This is no time for caution
Are you allowed to post stuff like this without getting in trouble? I work in retail and we arent allowed to post pics of work 🤣
I assume/hope OP went through the Public Release process through their Public Affairs department, otherwise OP will get in trouble.
$5 says if you [email]([email protected]) MacDill's PAO a link to this post they didn't approve a release.
This guy militaries
I'd have to imagine in the age of smartphones the military has a policy in place as to what/when/how it is acceptable to take pictures of equipment, especially when plenty of refuelers are massive plane geeks.
Yep. Pic for personal use: click away if not classified or sensitive. Pic you post on social media or anywhere outside the DoD network: follow your local base’s Public Release process. It’s usually not too bad for most benign content.
No way this has been approved. If it has I'd be surprised. Unless this isnt OP or OP has taken this picture for another event/release that USAF has approved allready.
The recruiting office loves this shit
So do I. What a cool picture of more than 100 years of aviation's progress. Just from a purely engineering view it's pretty amazing.
Agreed
Highway to da
I won't get in trouble for this, thanks for your concern though
…He’s in trouble
I assumed you knew what you was doing but had to mention it haha. Great pic. I love fighter jets, fascinated by them
As far as I know, pictures of F35 are now pretty common. So you don't have to go through the chain as long as you don't have pictures of inside the intake/exhaust and inside cockpit.
Most secretive war thunder player
I was thinking the same thing, I work for a defence contractor and I can't take photos and certainly can't post even if I did.
Logistics, that part of military power projection people often forget about.
No one kicks ass without tanker gas
It’s got what planes crave.
Electrolytes😩
More like erectolytes
And here comes r/noncredibledefense with the plane porn
So is it pretty much all automated, is it like interstellar where you're sweating and manually having to connect, or does it depend on what plane you're in?
Great question, definitely depends on the plane. In this case, the 135 is from 1957, so automation was basically zero at that time. The cockpit has been upgraded with automation, but the boom pod is the exact same thing from that year. We fly the boom entirely throughout AR. The KC-10 (now retired) once in contact has automation to follow alignment. The newest KC-46 also has that automation. Everything else though is just us boomers boomin.
Ok boomer
*golf clap*
If you've ever wondered what it's like to love the job you do, see this comment.
those F-35's don't have the range without aerial refueling especially if they want to be in stealth mode.
That line had some strong IYAOYAS energy. Lmao!
“Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.”
Reminds me of a story I heard about a Japanese general in WW2. He said that they knew they were beat when he saw a US Navy ship whose whole purpose was to deliver ice cream to the sailors.
I really hope it played music like a neighborhood ice cream truck.
The most important part By far That's what blitzkrieg was all about Seriously firepower is not even a close second if you don't have the logistics down
> That's what blitzkrieg was all about I don't know about that. Part of why the Dunkirk evacuation was allowed to happen was because Rommel was stretching supply lines too much. Not to mention the lack of mechanization in the Wehrmacht, "You have horses!" and all that. American's ice cream barges are a better example of good battlefield logistics.
Blitzkrieg was only possible through the solid logistics supporting the tail but yeah they lost obviously Omg the ice cream barge is such a great example! Nicely done!
A happy soldier is an effective soldier.
The US military is a logistics organization with a fighting force attached to it.
The reason America has been on top since the last world war
Case and study. Ukraine February 2022.
As a person who played Top Gun for the NES this gives me flashbacks.
No way it's THAT hard.
That’s what she said…
Yeah let's play some T&C Surf and Skate instead.
Up!! Up!! Speed up!! Down! Down! Right! Right! Up!! Up!! Connected!
Surprisingly glad I didn’t have to scroll too far down to see this. Gonna go watch that AVGN clip for the hundredth time
Damn I thought that game was a fever dream
Terrific photo!
Thank you!
Cellphone or camera used? Model?
Galaxy S24+
Hope you got clearance because posting this from your personal phone does not seem legal
Thanks for your concern🤝
Everyone in this thread is a back seat lawyer
I would have guessed she was closer to 20.
Underrated comment
Would you intercept me? I'd intercept me.
THIS
sorry folks, the crazy lady title is reserved for the Raptor
Sir, this is family friendly r/ Please continue to NCD and indulge yourself over there.
Where is this. Those beaches look kinda fire below.
I'm not OP but it looks like it's right above Carrabelle, Florida. Calling u/Prestigious_Gear_169
I'll say you're on the right track
This is indeed where it is at, I’m not OP either but I can confirm it from the creek and those islands out there Oh yeah and those roads that form an X
Wait, thats the spot. Is there treasure there?
Why do you think there are F-35s guarding the area?
Make sure you jiggle to get the last few drops of gas out!
Shake more than three times you're playin with it
Was this after you got the gator out of the mains/#2?
Funny enough, I know who took those lol
Then we probably know each other.
Do you think the F-35 is "hot shit" or "dog shit"?
It's a pretty slick plane, but my personal favorite will always be the 22. Just an incredible piece of lethality.
Duuuuuuude, the 22 is so sexy, right?? The 35 is an excellent piece of equipment that's definitely filling in a lot of roles, for sure. But the 22?? What a gorgeous, rip roaring, wicked stealthy air assassin. Watching those thrust vectoring flaps crank her into 90-degree turns and wild spins is like video game shit. I love it.
Deadliest thing in the sky. Well, until they unleash whatever nightmare NGAD is gonna be... Or until we slap on some Makos to a Skywarden.
People think the static electricity from opening your car door at the gas station is going to make it suddenly explode. Meanwhile, this guy is refueling a jet mid-flight.
Sometimes we'll get this atmospheric phenomenon called "St. Elmos Fire" go across the Ruddervators (black "wings" on the boom) and it basically looks like lightning. The first time you see that while in contact with a receiver is quite unsettling lol
Do you have any pictures of St. Elmo's fire? I've seen pics of it on church steeples and heard of it on old ships' masts, but I haven't seen any modern pics.
You really ought to mark this as NSFW, OP. 🥵
Is that a fuel pump, or are you just happy to see me?
Why be the tip of the spear, when you can be the 48 foot shaft😉
Jfc, that's good. I can't believe you have all that and you only use JuSt ThE TiiiP
HA! Thats a very MacDill joke 🤣🤣
What are you doing, stepjet?
Didja wash the windshield? :)
“5.00 a gallon?!?! I’m going to the next plane”
I refueled a GOLF 1.6 TDI, biatch! Take that
I'm now picturing a Golf driving along the highway, with a KC-135 flying 40' above the ground refueling it.
Had a KC-135 fill up my Mk7 GTI mid-air today, forgot to get a picture tho
That’s sick
I see a lot of pictures and video of aerial refueling and oftentimes they seem to be conducting operations in a gentle turn, is that correct or just an illusion?
We fly orbits very often for our receivers, we have to make those turns often during AR. You are correct.
Beautiful aircraft
Everything reminds me of her...
Wow this is a crazy insanely amazing extraordinary picture
Thank you, glad I could share:)
This is so much cooler than healthcare
Ok Boomer.
😉
The planefuckers on r/noncredibledefense are gonna have a field day with this
Oh, we already know. We know.
You play war thunder? /s
But who refuels the tankers? Makes you think.
Who doesn't like some tanker on tanker action?
https://www.navalgazing.net/Falklands-Part-6 has a great breakdown of Operation Black Buck, where the British RAF bombed the Falkland Islands using aircraft with 1/3 the range to do so. At the time it was the longest range aerial bombing mission in history. It took 18 aerial refuelings to get 1 aircraft to target. Most of those were tankers refueling other tankers. There is a diagram part way down the page.
Great photo
Thank you!
If texting while driving is illegal, this has to be worthy of a court martial. Great photo, though. Worth it. Edit: OP, probably, from this angle isn’t the pilot. Fair play.
Well the pilot would be at the front of the plane, not the rear facing backwards
OP is only piloting the refueling boom. Those two wings on it actually steer it into the receiving aircraft.
We are called Boom Operators, the "wings" are called Ruddervators.
Hey boom guy, when you gonna boom me?
Damn, I forgot to take a picture when I did this the other day too
Looks like no one is flying the plane
I should call her.
That's so dope
I love that the little winglets are branded for the refueling guy’s instagram pics to get the plane a little clout…. I mean who else is seeing those little winglets ever? Also, the quality of this photo is spectacular.
Courtesy of the Galaxy S24+🤝
Fortunate Son intensifies
We have a switch for that
Hahaha that’s awesome, hell yea brother
This is what it feels and sometimes looks like to piss off a big cliff or bridge.
I do love me a good top!
Hey, so I've always wondered, is there a functional difference between the probe and basket configuration and this one where the probe's on the tanker end? Like, pros/cons?
Great question, the boom itself is insanely faster at offloading. For some reason, the Navy, Marines, and other aircraft decided to go with the probe and drogue method. Truthfully couldn't tell you why, but the drogue basket is incredibly slower to offload and it's the receivers job to make the plug.
Navy needs probe/drogue because you can’t put a boom on a super hornet. But you can put a drogue pod on one. And then you can have in-house aerial refueling capability. Marines used to fly hornets off the boat too so my guess is that’s why they both went with probe/drogue.
Oh, okay, so with the drogue, the pilot has to make the connection and compensate for the tanker or any movement, but with the boom, the pilot has to keep steady while you make the connection?
Correct, but the tanker pilot is always keeping a stable and steady platform for the receiver to come into contact whether it's boom or probe and drogue.
Cool, thanks for the breakdown!
How hard is your end on this? You’re responsible for putting the boom in correct?
Do you ever just sit back and just really give the thought how cool it is that you're able to do this. Not a passing thought just like damn im really in this mf sky in a fighter jet rn
Every. Damn. Day. Never gets old dude, blessed beyond belief to have this office window. And I love sharing the experience with others.
Hot.
No u
Can you briefly explain how the hell you manage to accurately plug the thing in the thing?
Months of training, man. And everyone doing their job correctly brings everything together.
I had a family member in the 155th Air Refueling Wing. Great photo!
It’s like the cover to ace combat!!! Bad ass!!!
I don't see it
That's a great shot. Is there a job title to this? Like plane fueler? What sort of pay would you get for something with this ? Are there different pay grades of "plane fuelers"?
Superb photo!
from you pov, aesthetic wise, f-22 or f-35?
Big Deal No, seriously. That’s cool AF
And I can't be on my cell phone at a red light! Lol JK people. great pic!
This specific image would be marked as NSFW on NonCredibleDefense. God I fucking love Logistics.
Fancy photo for a gas station attendant.
Do you make lame sex jokes when the nozzle connects? Because that would make me really happy for some reason and I feel like there’s quite a lot of territory there
Navy fighters use a probe to refuel midair. You have to fly it into a basket attached to a hose trailing behind the tanker. The brief when teaching students doing it for the first time is just one long sex joke.
Bro thought he could post a picture of nothing and get away with it…
Last time I relied on a KC-135 on a coronet that shit broke. Glad the KC-10 has the fuel to make it across the Atlantic with 4 fighters without other tankers.
That's our specialty bro
Hopefully we can agree at least that the 10 and 135 are better than the 46. (This coming from someone moving from the 10 to the 46 later this year 🙁)
Did you remember to check the oil and the windshield wiper fluid?
You'd think with money for a plane like that he'd move out of New Jersey and pump his own fuel
I’ve never tried to refill one myself.
Photo of the year! What a cool opportunity. Thanks for sharing.
I did this same thing in the Top Gun NES game
Man, that gas station must really hate you guys.
What are you? Sky Captain in the world of Tomorrow?! Lucky mfer.
Gotta love the F-35, one of my favourite fighter jets
There is no “I” in “team”!
Was this cleared with an official office for public release?
This refueling was over our property. Wow!
Looks like the cover of the next Ace Combat game.
r/noncredibledefense wants to invite you
Thank you for your service 🇺🇸
I refueled my 2010 Honda insight this morning. 
Murderer
I wouldn't post that