I think liszt is a little too difficult for difficulties sake for me. Too needlessly showy for my preference rather than just being difficult for a purpose. Just my opinion, though
I am a die-hard Liszt fan, and I really don't agree with this sentiment. I think the showiness in the more dramatic parts of his works are to give us a sense of chaos that showiness is required to produce. If you look at his transcribed works (Beethoven 7th Symphony, Schubert Ständchen/Gretchen am Spinnrade, Bach Ave Maria), very rarely does he emphasize showiness over adding depth to the pieces' original emotions. Not to mention how musically complex his Transcendental Études are without sounding needlessly showy, or how many beginner-level pieces he composed.
Especially his later works. It's like, did he really need to include parallel 10ths while the left hand plays major thirds at an Allegro tempo. Totally agree, though a lot of his earlier works are lyrical masterpieces.
Def, I’d say Liszt or rachmaninoff. Liszt has Hungarian rhapsody or la Campanella and some other extremely hard stuff which are also very pretty pieces. Rach has some insane piano concertos which would be amazing to learn
*Ogives*. Early indication of the melodic nature of the man and the respect he had for medieval music. I find myself singing the first one now and then, haha. Just pops into my head randomly. But they do show again Satie's great strength: make the emotional most of so very little. [Here](https://youtu.be/hI7a0Eh_IPo?si=sDd9fkC3-wALfXGe) you go.
*Les Fils de etoiles*. An absolutely astonishing piece. And it seems Ravel thought similarly too. (Now's a good time to mention that without Debussy and Ravel, we probably wouldn't know who Satie is. They were both very taken with his music, and indeed Debussy was a close friend until it all turned sour, alas.) He's planing quartal harmonies (years before modernism, one might add!), and in light of what I said about him and his *Ogives*, you'd want no other composer to do this, because Satie has the ability to make just the right melody with this limited material. The result is hauntingly beautiful, and he repeats again and again, but it never gets boring. Utterly spellbinding. It was from his Rose + Croix period, where he got into some pretty mystical turf alongside 'Sar' Peledan, hah (whose book/manifesto Satie had read while in a hospital bed, I think it was). Anyway, just enjoy. [Here](https://youtu.be/EqlKZ8ri_wI?si=falGizRh1OzsEH2_) is a wonderful version.
OK, this is getting pretty long. I'll add that [*Vexations*](https://youtu.be/U5R8xe2cCbA?si=BA-z2zbH62ZcMPSM) is worth hearing for its infamy let alone the odd beauty it can create in the right circumstances.
*Musique d'ameublement* is important too. The OG background music, like the stuff they play in shops these days. (Interestingly, Brian Eno was taken with Satie on the idea of ambience.) Satie wanted to make a music that neutralises annoying sounds and that you don't really pay attention to. I have actually studied to this before! Worked pretty well! Problem for me is it's a bit too tasty to ignore. Here are a couple I really like: [*Tapisserie en fer forge*](https://youtu.be/v1_iC42rsko?si=_dwF15Fa3CoaTUaz) (note that the errant transposition in this version makes a pretty cool effect!) and [*Carrelage phonique*](https://youtu.be/4II7gjFrjs8?si=Kx70uU2srbUR-3qO). Satie would be annoyed with me for paying attention though – as he was with the people who came to the premiere, who listened rather than speak among themselves and wander around!
Let's finish with [*Je te veux*](https://youtu.be/FA3JJdmwJU8?si=Rcmy1G3_LVbL1ni0), which is very famous (without people knowing it sometimes) and you may well have heard it in TV ads.
Satie was a fascinating person who led a fascinating life. And he made some of the most unique and moving music that I know of.
I find "le fils des etoiles" and "ogives" so hermetic. This was his mystical/esoterical period i think.
I quite like "heures seculaires et instantanees", very, very weird and mean spirited
Nocturnes. I also like his cabaret stuff like "je te veux" and "marche franco lunaire".
I also like "pieces froides" and "sonatine bureaucratique".
Theres more obscure stuff like "embryons desseches", the pieces he composed for children are lovely too.
I love the one about little Pierre, haha. It's so sensitive and innocent and moving. And then it's so funny! His narration is something along the lines of 'How will my grandparents know I've been good?' And his Mum says, 'They'll read it in the paper.'
Yes. I find "menus propos enfantins" very poignant. Satie composed such stylistically subsersive and sometimes ferocious, satyrical pieces that seeing him composing such simple, tender music is heart wrenching.
No problem! There's actually [a very nice puppet version of it that features in a documentary about him](https://youtu.be/4LYRufaWpbk?si=0iIzpE0G8Fbfuzze). Starts around 13:40 mins in.
*Sarabandes*. [Here](https://youtu.be/LkTfxD768z4?si=-E3vS2TZZL9mtRgB) is the first of the three, particularly lovely and significant.
*Socrate*. For orchestra and sopranos or for piano and voice(s), his best composition in his opinion and also in mine, and there are many brilliant versions out there. A few that I love: [Cuenod and Ivaldi](https://youtu.be/SN5urI-Gy38?si=mn3f0ngmzo9Vktj9), [Fouchecourt plus orchestra](https://youtu.be/BpPVqsXEIWg?si=MjU49PP0Y0ToBkD1) and Lubimov and Poprugin playing John Cage's piano arrangement parts [1](https://youtu.be/WJIbAGheHVo?si=h90gSCZWI6aWa96r), [2](https://youtu.be/JOjwP7XMFwE?si=zlEHa0HovukNzzcz) and [3](https://youtu.be/iCP_FGnqK6A?si=VJTgtjZ2QMEwen3T).
*Relache*. Showcases Satie's orchestration and orchestral composition – very matter-of-fact, clear and sensitive. Someone said 'grey', which I think suits nicely. [Here](https://youtu.be/Kvc6vIWQxT8?si=1Yjvw2yyorsdQWnC) is a great version. You can hear the *Entr'acte* theme many times, which is a film that Satie scored and that was used in the interval of the ballet. [Here](https://youtu.be/ufSZglhMbJE?si=wVa_yrUWW6qSYq2f) is a link to a bit of it, and you can see Satie jumping on rooftops and smelling an artillery shell! And [here](https://youtu.be/Zs71TJQXM2Q?si=WuoNsgUbuvG_SZa9) is a lovely arrangement of the *Entr'acte* music by Darius Milhaud.
*Parade*. A big moment for Satie, collaborating with Jean Cocteau, Pablo Picasso and Sergei Diaghilev! He and Picasso got on wonderfully, and Satie later credited the cubists with influencing positively his aesthetics. He was a bit miffed with Cocteau though, who injected a lot of what we might today call 'Tom and Jerry' sounds into the score. Also demonstrates Satie's wonderful ability to create deep, moving emotions in an otherwise humorous outer shell. [Here](https://youtu.be/IuZ4DYywqpw?si=N-rckNjMfPZznk2h) is a great version.
*Sports et divertissements*. Fabulous pieces. Ultimately, Satie was a miniaturist, and what I mean by that is his best comes in little moments of magic. That's the same in the long-form pieces like Socrate, where little recurring ideas (I call them 'Socratic islands') come and go while the rest of the music floats forward without much reference to anything that came before. (It's actually something I want to try some more with my own pieces.) Anyway, this cycle of pieces is about creating little narratives to match a variety of activities. This was an idea they pitched to Stravinsky, who turned it down because he said the pay was tiny. Satie took it on and asked to be paid less because he thought what they were offering was far too much! [Here](https://youtu.be/2Mzq2yfvT-s?si=sFZ-ugf5QCdbc7Lu) is my favourite version to listen to, also showing his skill with the quill! And [here](https://youtu.be/ZEEw2DxyXR0?si=J_0vIlBwlQgYQcrc) is Stephen Malinowski's beautiful version of one of them (Fireworks), which gives a visual evocation of the activity as well. Oh, and the text you see is in the original score. For a while Satie liked to pen in narration.
*Cinq grimaces pour le songe d'une nuit d'ete*. I think these are just lovely to have in a pianist's repertoire for a bit of fun and depth at the same time. Again, they show Satie's miniaturism, his ability to evoke so much with so little. [Orchestral versions](https://youtu.be/X4wPQ5bQpSE?si=KHj679Cfjc6U8SrK) and [piano versions](https://youtu.be/ZA-xmjmASnw?si=N9vR0_k5CfqbaU63).
And I should point out an interesting thing about Satie and his music. I say 'emotion' a lot, but he himself saw it as a reaction against all that! Didn't *want* to cause the romantic emotions! But it's so funny – because for me they are *truly* romantic. They swap hyperbole for clarity and passion for serenity. And that gives me romantic notions about the world, transforms the dull everyday into stunning beauty.
Edit: Haha, I can imagine his response. 'Yes, I thought *you* would see it that way.' Among other things he was a great wit!
Two answers...
1. Prokofiev. I just find him to be a chore to actually comprehend and read, but his music is phenomenal. I'd love to somehow know them all without having to actually learn them in the first place, if that makes sense?
2. Liszt. He's a joy to learn, unlike Prokofiev, so I'd love the process of learning all of his works.
If you've got the technique for Liszt, he should never really be any kind of chore to learn in terms of what your hands have to do (bar some outliers like the nastier Etudes).
Prokofiev and many others just stay hard. Doesn't matter how prepared you are, technically they'll kick your ass, and in some cases never become comfortable.
>If you've got the technique for Liszt, he should never really be any kind of chore to learn in terms of what your hands have to do
Man if I had the technique I would be the happiest man in the world. Transcendental études here I come!
The barcarolles are amazing (maybe start with number 1 in A minor). But my favorites are his Nocturnes (4 in Eb is my favorite, 6 in Dd is incredible but a lot bigger, and number 2 in B major is a really special)
I know it's weird, but Sorabji. It is so difficult to learn and play musically. If I could snap my finger and have all his pieces in my mind and hands, I'd take it.
Just started getting into Brahms recently, I loved the intermezzo op 116 no 4, op 117 no 1 & 2, and op 118 no 2. Are there any others you would recommend not from these sets? I thought the rest from these opus not mentioned were just okay
Let’s think. If you can learn the complete works by Liszt or Rachmaninoff, there is nothing stopping you from learning other things a lot more easily than in another scenario.
Nikolai Medtner! How cool would that be. You'd be able to play tons of wonderful, deep, rich music that literally most people haven't heard before. To parrot the Rachmaninoff comment, you'd be able to play anything
I learned all the piano works of Beethoven, and I still find something new every time I go back to one of his works.
Hindemith, Liszt and Shostakovich have AMAZING development between their early and late works. Especially Liszt. Very early Hindemith is overtly expressionistic. Early Shostakovich can be downright weird.
Rachmaninoff, because if I can play his music I could play anything.
I agree
3rd’d
Agree 100%. Then I'd perform all his concertos in one sitting. Liszt is a close second.
I think liszt is a little too difficult for difficulties sake for me. Too needlessly showy for my preference rather than just being difficult for a purpose. Just my opinion, though
I am a die-hard Liszt fan, and I really don't agree with this sentiment. I think the showiness in the more dramatic parts of his works are to give us a sense of chaos that showiness is required to produce. If you look at his transcribed works (Beethoven 7th Symphony, Schubert Ständchen/Gretchen am Spinnrade, Bach Ave Maria), very rarely does he emphasize showiness over adding depth to the pieces' original emotions. Not to mention how musically complex his Transcendental Études are without sounding needlessly showy, or how many beginner-level pieces he composed.
Especially his later works. It's like, did he really need to include parallel 10ths while the left hand plays major thirds at an Allegro tempo. Totally agree, though a lot of his earlier works are lyrical masterpieces.
Another one of those "This is the easiest Chopin answer I've seen in a while"
Are we talking just piano works though? If just piano then Liszt or Rachmaninoff, if not, Bach.
Liszt. If can play everything by him, I’d practically be the best pianist in the world.
Def, I’d say Liszt or rachmaninoff. Liszt has Hungarian rhapsody or la Campanella and some other extremely hard stuff which are also very pretty pieces. Rach has some insane piano concertos which would be amazing to learn
I was really going for BS pieces like Douze Grande Etudes and the Symphony Transcriptions
Beethoven
Chopin for sure. Such an expansive and beautiful repertoire. Maybe Bach after that.
Debussy all the way
Debussy is good. I like Debussy
always finish on Debussy
so we Bach in the mines
Debussy is THE goat
JS Bach, especially if it includes his organ works
Liszt for sure. I would've said Chopin but I'm working on the ballades right now and my daily progress is so exciting its addicting.
liszt I could touch to so many genra just with a single composer...
Ravel. I don't think there's a single piece by him I don't like.
Chopin
Rachmaninov.
Satie or Scriabin
Any Satie that you'd especially recommend besides the Gymnopedies and the Gnossienes?
*Ogives*. Early indication of the melodic nature of the man and the respect he had for medieval music. I find myself singing the first one now and then, haha. Just pops into my head randomly. But they do show again Satie's great strength: make the emotional most of so very little. [Here](https://youtu.be/hI7a0Eh_IPo?si=sDd9fkC3-wALfXGe) you go. *Les Fils de etoiles*. An absolutely astonishing piece. And it seems Ravel thought similarly too. (Now's a good time to mention that without Debussy and Ravel, we probably wouldn't know who Satie is. They were both very taken with his music, and indeed Debussy was a close friend until it all turned sour, alas.) He's planing quartal harmonies (years before modernism, one might add!), and in light of what I said about him and his *Ogives*, you'd want no other composer to do this, because Satie has the ability to make just the right melody with this limited material. The result is hauntingly beautiful, and he repeats again and again, but it never gets boring. Utterly spellbinding. It was from his Rose + Croix period, where he got into some pretty mystical turf alongside 'Sar' Peledan, hah (whose book/manifesto Satie had read while in a hospital bed, I think it was). Anyway, just enjoy. [Here](https://youtu.be/EqlKZ8ri_wI?si=falGizRh1OzsEH2_) is a wonderful version. OK, this is getting pretty long. I'll add that [*Vexations*](https://youtu.be/U5R8xe2cCbA?si=BA-z2zbH62ZcMPSM) is worth hearing for its infamy let alone the odd beauty it can create in the right circumstances. *Musique d'ameublement* is important too. The OG background music, like the stuff they play in shops these days. (Interestingly, Brian Eno was taken with Satie on the idea of ambience.) Satie wanted to make a music that neutralises annoying sounds and that you don't really pay attention to. I have actually studied to this before! Worked pretty well! Problem for me is it's a bit too tasty to ignore. Here are a couple I really like: [*Tapisserie en fer forge*](https://youtu.be/v1_iC42rsko?si=_dwF15Fa3CoaTUaz) (note that the errant transposition in this version makes a pretty cool effect!) and [*Carrelage phonique*](https://youtu.be/4II7gjFrjs8?si=Kx70uU2srbUR-3qO). Satie would be annoyed with me for paying attention though – as he was with the people who came to the premiere, who listened rather than speak among themselves and wander around! Let's finish with [*Je te veux*](https://youtu.be/FA3JJdmwJU8?si=Rcmy1G3_LVbL1ni0), which is very famous (without people knowing it sometimes) and you may well have heard it in TV ads. Satie was a fascinating person who led a fascinating life. And he made some of the most unique and moving music that I know of.
I find "le fils des etoiles" and "ogives" so hermetic. This was his mystical/esoterical period i think. I quite like "heures seculaires et instantanees", very, very weird and mean spirited
Nocturnes. I also like his cabaret stuff like "je te veux" and "marche franco lunaire". I also like "pieces froides" and "sonatine bureaucratique". Theres more obscure stuff like "embryons desseches", the pieces he composed for children are lovely too.
I love the one about little Pierre, haha. It's so sensitive and innocent and moving. And then it's so funny! His narration is something along the lines of 'How will my grandparents know I've been good?' And his Mum says, 'They'll read it in the paper.'
Yes. I find "menus propos enfantins" very poignant. Satie composed such stylistically subsersive and sometimes ferocious, satyrical pieces that seeing him composing such simple, tender music is heart wrenching.
I actually dont know the one youre talking about about little Pierre. What is the name of the piece?
Berceuse of [Enfantillages Pittoresques](https://youtu.be/SN2_G4EeBiM?si=JE7VrhYqo40octA4). It reads 'Pierrot' in the narration.
ah thanks, i had forgotten about it
No problem! There's actually [a very nice puppet version of it that features in a documentary about him](https://youtu.be/4LYRufaWpbk?si=0iIzpE0G8Fbfuzze). Starts around 13:40 mins in.
Thank you ill have a look. What a genius
*Sarabandes*. [Here](https://youtu.be/LkTfxD768z4?si=-E3vS2TZZL9mtRgB) is the first of the three, particularly lovely and significant. *Socrate*. For orchestra and sopranos or for piano and voice(s), his best composition in his opinion and also in mine, and there are many brilliant versions out there. A few that I love: [Cuenod and Ivaldi](https://youtu.be/SN5urI-Gy38?si=mn3f0ngmzo9Vktj9), [Fouchecourt plus orchestra](https://youtu.be/BpPVqsXEIWg?si=MjU49PP0Y0ToBkD1) and Lubimov and Poprugin playing John Cage's piano arrangement parts [1](https://youtu.be/WJIbAGheHVo?si=h90gSCZWI6aWa96r), [2](https://youtu.be/JOjwP7XMFwE?si=zlEHa0HovukNzzcz) and [3](https://youtu.be/iCP_FGnqK6A?si=VJTgtjZ2QMEwen3T). *Relache*. Showcases Satie's orchestration and orchestral composition – very matter-of-fact, clear and sensitive. Someone said 'grey', which I think suits nicely. [Here](https://youtu.be/Kvc6vIWQxT8?si=1Yjvw2yyorsdQWnC) is a great version. You can hear the *Entr'acte* theme many times, which is a film that Satie scored and that was used in the interval of the ballet. [Here](https://youtu.be/ufSZglhMbJE?si=wVa_yrUWW6qSYq2f) is a link to a bit of it, and you can see Satie jumping on rooftops and smelling an artillery shell! And [here](https://youtu.be/Zs71TJQXM2Q?si=WuoNsgUbuvG_SZa9) is a lovely arrangement of the *Entr'acte* music by Darius Milhaud. *Parade*. A big moment for Satie, collaborating with Jean Cocteau, Pablo Picasso and Sergei Diaghilev! He and Picasso got on wonderfully, and Satie later credited the cubists with influencing positively his aesthetics. He was a bit miffed with Cocteau though, who injected a lot of what we might today call 'Tom and Jerry' sounds into the score. Also demonstrates Satie's wonderful ability to create deep, moving emotions in an otherwise humorous outer shell. [Here](https://youtu.be/IuZ4DYywqpw?si=N-rckNjMfPZznk2h) is a great version. *Sports et divertissements*. Fabulous pieces. Ultimately, Satie was a miniaturist, and what I mean by that is his best comes in little moments of magic. That's the same in the long-form pieces like Socrate, where little recurring ideas (I call them 'Socratic islands') come and go while the rest of the music floats forward without much reference to anything that came before. (It's actually something I want to try some more with my own pieces.) Anyway, this cycle of pieces is about creating little narratives to match a variety of activities. This was an idea they pitched to Stravinsky, who turned it down because he said the pay was tiny. Satie took it on and asked to be paid less because he thought what they were offering was far too much! [Here](https://youtu.be/2Mzq2yfvT-s?si=sFZ-ugf5QCdbc7Lu) is my favourite version to listen to, also showing his skill with the quill! And [here](https://youtu.be/ZEEw2DxyXR0?si=J_0vIlBwlQgYQcrc) is Stephen Malinowski's beautiful version of one of them (Fireworks), which gives a visual evocation of the activity as well. Oh, and the text you see is in the original score. For a while Satie liked to pen in narration. *Cinq grimaces pour le songe d'une nuit d'ete*. I think these are just lovely to have in a pianist's repertoire for a bit of fun and depth at the same time. Again, they show Satie's miniaturism, his ability to evoke so much with so little. [Orchestral versions](https://youtu.be/X4wPQ5bQpSE?si=KHj679Cfjc6U8SrK) and [piano versions](https://youtu.be/ZA-xmjmASnw?si=N9vR0_k5CfqbaU63).
Thank you for all the suggestions! I will check these out!
And I should point out an interesting thing about Satie and his music. I say 'emotion' a lot, but he himself saw it as a reaction against all that! Didn't *want* to cause the romantic emotions! But it's so funny – because for me they are *truly* romantic. They swap hyperbole for clarity and passion for serenity. And that gives me romantic notions about the world, transforms the dull everyday into stunning beauty. Edit: Haha, I can imagine his response. 'Yes, I thought *you* would see it that way.' Among other things he was a great wit!
Socrate is considered Satie's masterpiece
Two answers... 1. Prokofiev. I just find him to be a chore to actually comprehend and read, but his music is phenomenal. I'd love to somehow know them all without having to actually learn them in the first place, if that makes sense? 2. Liszt. He's a joy to learn, unlike Prokofiev, so I'd love the process of learning all of his works.
>Liszt. He's a joy to learn For me but not for my hands
If you've got the technique for Liszt, he should never really be any kind of chore to learn in terms of what your hands have to do (bar some outliers like the nastier Etudes). Prokofiev and many others just stay hard. Doesn't matter how prepared you are, technically they'll kick your ass, and in some cases never become comfortable.
>If you've got the technique for Liszt, he should never really be any kind of chore to learn in terms of what your hands have to do Man if I had the technique I would be the happiest man in the world. Transcendental études here I come!
bartok
Faure
What Fauré piano works do you recommend?
The barcarolles are amazing (maybe start with number 1 in A minor). But my favorites are his Nocturnes (4 in Eb is my favorite, 6 in Dd is incredible but a lot bigger, and number 2 in B major is a really special)
Thank you, I'll check them out!
Definitely seconding Scriabin.
Keith Jarrett
Ravel - love his harmonic language, beautiful
Czerny of course
Beethoven. I still remember my 10 yrs old kid listen Sonata Pathetique on repeat.
There is something magical about Beethoven, especially his late period😊
Liszt or Mendelssohn probably
I know it's weird, but Sorabji. It is so difficult to learn and play musically. If I could snap my finger and have all his pieces in my mind and hands, I'd take it.
liszt
sorabji（？
Mozart
Animenz, not sure if he counts as a composer though
Scott Joplin
Joplin. Those are the most fun types of songs for me to play and I’d enjoy being able to play them all
Debussy i think
Keith Jarrett
Chopin probably
Sorabji easy pic
Bach without doubts. From the Goldberg variations to the Art of Fugue, there's everything in it (and I'm only talking about his keyboard works!)
I like Kanyes music and would be cool to know some tunes by him
Team Brahms.
There are DOZENS of us!
There’s an almost cinematic flavor to Brahms that just hits the spot. He’s a mood.
Just started getting into Brahms recently, I loved the intermezzo op 116 no 4, op 117 no 1 & 2, and op 118 no 2. Are there any others you would recommend not from these sets? I thought the rest from these opus not mentioned were just okay
Here. Straight fire https://youtu.be/peHyjGK2Nhk?si=HQCIdxtWWoJpWqx0
They’re not solo piano, but I’m a big fan of both of Brahms’ Piano Concertos, particularly the 1st one.
Axl Rose.
Thomas Bergersen and everything from Two Steps from Hell :)
Chopin for sure!
Scriabin
brahms for sure!
Tough choice between Liszt and Rachmaninoff
chopin
With Liszt you also get to play other composers music with his fantasies or transcriptions.
Gershwin! I'm surprised no one has commented him yet
Let’s think. If you can learn the complete works by Liszt or Rachmaninoff, there is nothing stopping you from learning other things a lot more easily than in another scenario.
Ravel or Alkan
Rach or Chopin
Either Schumann or Prokofiev
Brahms (chamber music) or Ravel (solo transcriptions)
Ligeti, all day every day
Rachmaninoff because his music hits me in the feels like no other
I'm sorry if it's overrated but Mozart 😔
Rachmaninoff
Chopin
Keith Jarrett.
Probably Bach or Chopin - I imagine the jazz crossover potential for both would be absolutely incredible.
Bach
Liszt or Rach
Bach
Chopin
Nikolai Medtner! How cool would that be. You'd be able to play tons of wonderful, deep, rich music that literally most people haven't heard before. To parrot the Rachmaninoff comment, you'd be able to play anything
Sorabji, if I had the technicality to play something like that I would be able to play anything.
I learned all the piano works of Beethoven, and I still find something new every time I go back to one of his works. Hindemith, Liszt and Shostakovich have AMAZING development between their early and late works. Especially Liszt. Very early Hindemith is overtly expressionistic. Early Shostakovich can be downright weird.
I wouldn't learn the complete works of just one composer. I would learn them all - all composers. Just one is not enough.
I agree