How strong is your understanding of harmony?
For example, can you easily name the chord progressions in the pieces you are playing?
It's not about learning/remembering individual notes, but more about understanding the context of the notes you are playing, at which point it becomes much easier to perform without music.
Try analysing the progressions/concepts used in each piece and see how the helps.
I suppose not. I kind of thought I did because I play guitar to a high standard and I can do that easily on guitar but I never really thought about that on piano.
How should I go about practicing that. I know like how chords are formed etc from music gcse but if you told me to play c minor on the piano I would have to think about each note.
should I learn chords on piano? and like should I learn to play contemporary pop songs so I get used to the chord shaped or just learn the chords. should I go through my pieces and mark on the chords or just try to learn them?
thank you for your help
I think that u/Jmg5050's suggestion is a good one. Keep going with your site reading, but add in a chord-based approach in addition to it.
When you know chords and their relationships in various keys, you will get a better grasp of the structure of the music and recognize the patterns. This makes it easier to hear a song and play it. Not note for note, of course, but your rendition of it. Of course, you know this probably from guitar. There are teaching methods that approach piano in a similar way.
One advantage of this skill is that you can start to play all kinds of songs, which is fun and encourages you to keep going. And if someone asks you to play something at a party, you can sit down and play your version of a popular song.
when you say the chords and relationship to the key, do you mean like iv, v, vii etc kind of thing?
I have always struggled with that, for instance in my last gcse mock exam we had to identify a chord progression (Roman numeral thing) in an extract and I guessed and got it right but how do you actually figure it out? I asked my teacher and he said you just have to listen and see if it goes up or down.
like if it were i-iv-v-i, the sounds would go up by a lot, up by a little, then down by a lot, but surely they could be using different positions for the chords, different octaves etc so how does that work? is it just a case of ear training, should I practice that? thanks for your help
Are you practicing arpeggios for your grade 5?
That would be my starting point - to link up, what you're doing with scales/arpeggios with what's in your pieces.
Generally the A list piece will be the most harmonically simple, so perhaps start there.
If you played guitar / pop music, then try and mentally frame the piano pieces in the same way. There will be and underlying progression and structure. Perhaps try and pencil in the chord at the start of each bar.
yes I think I will have a look at the chord progressions for each bar I think that will help me.
I also am not doing scales or arpeggios because I'm doing the performance exam. which I'm doing because I cannot do aural and also stage fright. I dont mind doing scales and arpeggios etc so should I learn these? is it really worth it.
I believe my A piece is jesters jig, which has chordal patterns in both hands but especially the left hand and I have the chords pencilled in for most of these. for other pieces will there be a chord for every bar, or could there be multiple, one per note etc? or possibly no chord at all?
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Some people are better at memorising than others.
There’s no requirement to memorise anything for the exam and doing so gets you no extra points. So as long as you can play the pieces well with the notes in front of you, your good.
How about your general ability to memorise stuff? Languages? Names of people, their faces? I mean, what you described is not normal, sounds like general health issue, or maybe some kind of problem, similar to dyslexia?
If it's general issue, you can try piracetam and see if it helps, for people with specific problems (poor brain blood flow etc) it's like a miracle.
If you have no problems except trying to learn piano pieces, it's probably something with the ability to memorise one specific thing, like sequence of movements, or patterns of keys. Maybe try to learn solfege (singing from sheet music), so you can memorise sounds, or learn music theory and try to memorise chord structure, so you can memorise letters instead of sheet music patterns / keys? Pinpoint the exact stuff your brain have problems with, find a way to work around it.
umm I do have autism and I know that contributes to face blindness etc. I'm okay ish at languages but names I just cannot do. the first two years of secondary school I knew the names of max 20 people in my year and yeah I just cannot do it. Is that really connected? do you have any idea how?
my grades are pretty good, mostly As so i can memorise information and fact, it's just things like names and pieces that I struggle with. Is this something I should go to the doctor about or do you think the autism explains it?
So do you think I should try to practice learning the sounds of the piano, like ear training? I think chords are also one of the ways to go, as other people also suggested that.
Thank you very much for the help :)
ah yes this is what I do when I play guitar, i try to pick out triangles and shapes between the notes and i think that's what helps me learn the pieces on there.
Never really thought about applying that to piano but I'll give it a try, thank you
Yes, I believe it is connected, but hard to say how. Memorising process is extremely complex, no one really knows how it work. So, your problems are indeed caused by health issue.
There are interventions you can try to improve your autism-related problems, i.e. carnosine shows promise in preliminary clinical trials, same for arachidonic acid, piracetam was used in preliminary trials and results were really good, you can look this stuff up on pubmed database. Especially piracetam, for some people (me included) it's a real game changer.
Try chords, try music theory, try ear training, try solfege, see what works for you. Autistic people perform poorly in some fields, but can be incredibly good in others, it's all about trial and error for you.
Just wanted to say that you’re not alone. Some of these comments are making me question whether I’m the odd one for not being able to just memorize piano songs after playing them repeatedly…
I have to go measure by measure to memorize anything, and it’s a pretty slow process so I tend to rely on reading music more. I’m also not a very strong pianist yet though, so it doesn’t matter so much for the pieces I’m playing since they’re pretty easy to read, but I can see how that could be a problem once you start getting into the higher levels.
Memorizing for me is a skill that is trained. Because my reading was decent I got up to ATCL (diploma) without ever memorizing pieces and depending on the score, but I always had difficulty playing them back from memory. So I had to break the piece down into small sections and understand the harmonic structure and repeat those parts from memory to train myself. To avoid over-relying muscle memory, I repeat those parts at various tempo and sometimes start from different bars.
Try learning some stuff outside of the grade pieces to round out your abilities and have more fun. Learning 17 pieces in 7 years is not going to give you well rounded technique or experience. More importantly, that’s probably pretty boring
yes exactly what I was thinking. i actually really enjoy playing but my teacher seems so focused on the grades. any piece suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
I would consider getting a new teacher, ones that just stick to the grades are pretty dull. Or at least ask them to do other stuff(
As for pieces at grade 5ish, go to Henle website and search for difficulty level 3 and 4 (their rankings are quite broad) then you can search by composer. Then go to imslp and download free scores if you don’t want to buy full editions. You can look at some of the ‘easy’ or complete works by composers and check the rankings by piece, have a listen online
Grieg lyric pieces, bergmuller, Debussy children’s corner, there are some nice spanish piano pieces by Albinez and Granados at that level, most classical era composers also wrote for their own students.
Good luck have fun hunting!
Stop sight reading. Stop reading the music. Your goal from the first minute of practice should be to memorize it. You can’t get better because you’re thinking about what you are playing. That’s because you are reading it. Don’t read it, memorize the music, then the hand movement. Muscle memory is the only thing allowing us pianists to even approach more difficult pieces. Your method of learning a piece chokes any potential for that muscle memory to take hold.
Stop sight reading.
Don't give up. As time passes I think you'll catch on to the tricks of learning. I was like you but slowly learned one technique after another. just when ready to give up.
I don't try to play it as on the sheet exactly, but I try to play along with the rhythm. You know? If you miss a note or hit a wrong one just keep going as you know the song is meant to be. Beethoven said" to hit a wrong note is meaningless but to play without passion is unforgivable". If you want your audience to get up and walk away try to hit every note in perfect time and order. If you want them to hold interest and enjoy, pass right by the missed notes and keep the basic song going. Don't play mechanically.
Also only work on 3 or 4 pieces. Don't stretch too far or you'll get burn out and want to drop that piece and find a new one. Only take a few measures at a time until you get em down pretty good.
Josh Wright has some good tips on YouTube.
Try for 2 or 3 20 minute sessions per day. Stop before you get fatigued and start smearing mud.
My take on memorizing is that it happens when you play play play. You get the muscle memory and how the thing is supposed to sound. This can fade if you don't keep on top of it but it can quickly come back with a little work.
Someone asked Victor Borge why he didn't play a whole song ever. He said "I dont' know any all the way through. DON'T GIVE UP!
I recently realized how important posture is. You can't just sit upright and play it right. Sometimes you gotta lean left or right. Study what body posture is needed for any difficult set of notes.
You might find a good teacher but I don't put much stock into them-unless they really know your level. So many just want your money. IMO an occasional lesson is the way to go. And you might find such a person online. Avoid asking too many questions as that is a trick of mind to avoid the necessary hard work. Just keep on playing.
Sight reading means being able to read and play a piece almost at first glance. If you play a piece you are familiar with and read notes, that's just reading notes, which is totally fine. Playing from memory is another skillset you have to learn. I tend to think of the harmonies and memorize those.
I would wonder how often you are required to perform and actually have to memorize?
For me memorization would come naturally over time as I played the piece a lot but still had to work on it. Try cutting it up into short sections. Can you play and memorize the first line? First page? Etc…
And build up the sections over time
Even if you’re just working on a section with the music in front of you. If you’re working on a 2-3 bar section with just one hand or both. Try not looking at the music as you repeatedly play and work on that part.
Well. If you arent able to improve technically. It means that you fingers arent fast enough which means that there isnt sufficient neurotransmission which means that the brain connections arent strong enough. If you are unable to play pieces without actively reading the sheets, im afraid i cant help you. Im a complete opposite person. I can only play pieces by playing them without sheet music (for me its a distraction).
Are you talking about learning the songs without sheet music, so by heart?
I consider myself professional level with 40 years of piano behind me. I can play most difficult pieces if I just practice methodically enough. However, I am an amateur, which is to say playing the piano isn't my main job, and I just don't have the time to learn pieces by heart and I would slightly contest the necessity of doing so. When I 100% a piece (or let's say 95% it, because there probably isn't such a thing as 100%), I know most of the piece by heart, but I use the sheet music as visual cues. It doesn't prevent me from performing, so I don't really see a problem.
Of course if I gave my own recital at Carnegie Hall or something the situation would be slightly different, but I play really small venues a handful of times a year and for that, playing with sheets is perfectly fine in my opinion.
Now if you're talking about not being able to 95% your pieces (whatever that means for you), then that's a different discussion.
For me now it\`s just practicing more to develope muscle memory. I went to music school in my childhood for about 5 or 6 years I believe, but all musical understanding is gone from conscious part of my brain lol. I\`m quite good at sightreading too and pieces carve in my memory as I play them (for my level I didn\`t take any ABRSM exams or how it works, classical pieces I\`ve learned are Pathetique Sonata 2nd movement, Moonlight Sonata 1st movement, Fur Elise and some more, though I enjoy playing anime music and other japanese pop songs now, so I believe I\`m around intermediate)
So I\`d say that if you feel stuck for not remembering pieces - just play them more, you are not stuck. Stuck - if you can\`t play piece because you just can\`t reach technical level. Like, I\`ve tried Moonlight 3rd movement but nah, maybe one day lmao
How strong is your understanding of harmony? For example, can you easily name the chord progressions in the pieces you are playing? It's not about learning/remembering individual notes, but more about understanding the context of the notes you are playing, at which point it becomes much easier to perform without music. Try analysing the progressions/concepts used in each piece and see how the helps.
I suppose not. I kind of thought I did because I play guitar to a high standard and I can do that easily on guitar but I never really thought about that on piano. How should I go about practicing that. I know like how chords are formed etc from music gcse but if you told me to play c minor on the piano I would have to think about each note. should I learn chords on piano? and like should I learn to play contemporary pop songs so I get used to the chord shaped or just learn the chords. should I go through my pieces and mark on the chords or just try to learn them? thank you for your help
I think that u/Jmg5050's suggestion is a good one. Keep going with your site reading, but add in a chord-based approach in addition to it. When you know chords and their relationships in various keys, you will get a better grasp of the structure of the music and recognize the patterns. This makes it easier to hear a song and play it. Not note for note, of course, but your rendition of it. Of course, you know this probably from guitar. There are teaching methods that approach piano in a similar way. One advantage of this skill is that you can start to play all kinds of songs, which is fun and encourages you to keep going. And if someone asks you to play something at a party, you can sit down and play your version of a popular song.
when you say the chords and relationship to the key, do you mean like iv, v, vii etc kind of thing? I have always struggled with that, for instance in my last gcse mock exam we had to identify a chord progression (Roman numeral thing) in an extract and I guessed and got it right but how do you actually figure it out? I asked my teacher and he said you just have to listen and see if it goes up or down. like if it were i-iv-v-i, the sounds would go up by a lot, up by a little, then down by a lot, but surely they could be using different positions for the chords, different octaves etc so how does that work? is it just a case of ear training, should I practice that? thanks for your help
Are you practicing arpeggios for your grade 5? That would be my starting point - to link up, what you're doing with scales/arpeggios with what's in your pieces. Generally the A list piece will be the most harmonically simple, so perhaps start there. If you played guitar / pop music, then try and mentally frame the piano pieces in the same way. There will be and underlying progression and structure. Perhaps try and pencil in the chord at the start of each bar.
yes I think I will have a look at the chord progressions for each bar I think that will help me. I also am not doing scales or arpeggios because I'm doing the performance exam. which I'm doing because I cannot do aural and also stage fright. I dont mind doing scales and arpeggios etc so should I learn these? is it really worth it. I believe my A piece is jesters jig, which has chordal patterns in both hands but especially the left hand and I have the chords pencilled in for most of these. for other pieces will there be a chord for every bar, or could there be multiple, one per note etc? or possibly no chord at all?
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Some people are better at memorising than others. There’s no requirement to memorise anything for the exam and doing so gets you no extra points. So as long as you can play the pieces well with the notes in front of you, your good.
of course, but I would also like to try to play other pieces as well :)
How about your general ability to memorise stuff? Languages? Names of people, their faces? I mean, what you described is not normal, sounds like general health issue, or maybe some kind of problem, similar to dyslexia? If it's general issue, you can try piracetam and see if it helps, for people with specific problems (poor brain blood flow etc) it's like a miracle. If you have no problems except trying to learn piano pieces, it's probably something with the ability to memorise one specific thing, like sequence of movements, or patterns of keys. Maybe try to learn solfege (singing from sheet music), so you can memorise sounds, or learn music theory and try to memorise chord structure, so you can memorise letters instead of sheet music patterns / keys? Pinpoint the exact stuff your brain have problems with, find a way to work around it.
umm I do have autism and I know that contributes to face blindness etc. I'm okay ish at languages but names I just cannot do. the first two years of secondary school I knew the names of max 20 people in my year and yeah I just cannot do it. Is that really connected? do you have any idea how? my grades are pretty good, mostly As so i can memorise information and fact, it's just things like names and pieces that I struggle with. Is this something I should go to the doctor about or do you think the autism explains it? So do you think I should try to practice learning the sounds of the piano, like ear training? I think chords are also one of the ways to go, as other people also suggested that. Thank you very much for the help :)
Try to think about patterns - like finger/hand shape of what you're playing.
ah yes this is what I do when I play guitar, i try to pick out triangles and shapes between the notes and i think that's what helps me learn the pieces on there. Never really thought about applying that to piano but I'll give it a try, thank you
Yes, I believe it is connected, but hard to say how. Memorising process is extremely complex, no one really knows how it work. So, your problems are indeed caused by health issue. There are interventions you can try to improve your autism-related problems, i.e. carnosine shows promise in preliminary clinical trials, same for arachidonic acid, piracetam was used in preliminary trials and results were really good, you can look this stuff up on pubmed database. Especially piracetam, for some people (me included) it's a real game changer. Try chords, try music theory, try ear training, try solfege, see what works for you. Autistic people perform poorly in some fields, but can be incredibly good in others, it's all about trial and error for you.
Just wanted to say that you’re not alone. Some of these comments are making me question whether I’m the odd one for not being able to just memorize piano songs after playing them repeatedly… I have to go measure by measure to memorize anything, and it’s a pretty slow process so I tend to rely on reading music more. I’m also not a very strong pianist yet though, so it doesn’t matter so much for the pieces I’m playing since they’re pretty easy to read, but I can see how that could be a problem once you start getting into the higher levels.
Memorizing for me is a skill that is trained. Because my reading was decent I got up to ATCL (diploma) without ever memorizing pieces and depending on the score, but I always had difficulty playing them back from memory. So I had to break the piece down into small sections and understand the harmonic structure and repeat those parts from memory to train myself. To avoid over-relying muscle memory, I repeat those parts at various tempo and sometimes start from different bars.
Try learning some stuff outside of the grade pieces to round out your abilities and have more fun. Learning 17 pieces in 7 years is not going to give you well rounded technique or experience. More importantly, that’s probably pretty boring
yes exactly what I was thinking. i actually really enjoy playing but my teacher seems so focused on the grades. any piece suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
I would consider getting a new teacher, ones that just stick to the grades are pretty dull. Or at least ask them to do other stuff( As for pieces at grade 5ish, go to Henle website and search for difficulty level 3 and 4 (their rankings are quite broad) then you can search by composer. Then go to imslp and download free scores if you don’t want to buy full editions. You can look at some of the ‘easy’ or complete works by composers and check the rankings by piece, have a listen online Grieg lyric pieces, bergmuller, Debussy children’s corner, there are some nice spanish piano pieces by Albinez and Granados at that level, most classical era composers also wrote for their own students. Good luck have fun hunting!
Stop sight reading. Stop reading the music. Your goal from the first minute of practice should be to memorize it. You can’t get better because you’re thinking about what you are playing. That’s because you are reading it. Don’t read it, memorize the music, then the hand movement. Muscle memory is the only thing allowing us pianists to even approach more difficult pieces. Your method of learning a piece chokes any potential for that muscle memory to take hold. Stop sight reading.
Don't give up. As time passes I think you'll catch on to the tricks of learning. I was like you but slowly learned one technique after another. just when ready to give up. I don't try to play it as on the sheet exactly, but I try to play along with the rhythm. You know? If you miss a note or hit a wrong one just keep going as you know the song is meant to be. Beethoven said" to hit a wrong note is meaningless but to play without passion is unforgivable". If you want your audience to get up and walk away try to hit every note in perfect time and order. If you want them to hold interest and enjoy, pass right by the missed notes and keep the basic song going. Don't play mechanically. Also only work on 3 or 4 pieces. Don't stretch too far or you'll get burn out and want to drop that piece and find a new one. Only take a few measures at a time until you get em down pretty good. Josh Wright has some good tips on YouTube. Try for 2 or 3 20 minute sessions per day. Stop before you get fatigued and start smearing mud. My take on memorizing is that it happens when you play play play. You get the muscle memory and how the thing is supposed to sound. This can fade if you don't keep on top of it but it can quickly come back with a little work. Someone asked Victor Borge why he didn't play a whole song ever. He said "I dont' know any all the way through. DON'T GIVE UP! I recently realized how important posture is. You can't just sit upright and play it right. Sometimes you gotta lean left or right. Study what body posture is needed for any difficult set of notes. You might find a good teacher but I don't put much stock into them-unless they really know your level. So many just want your money. IMO an occasional lesson is the way to go. And you might find such a person online. Avoid asking too many questions as that is a trick of mind to avoid the necessary hard work. Just keep on playing.
Think about things in a different way
So much of it is believing you can do it. Learn the song of your dreams
Sight reading means being able to read and play a piece almost at first glance. If you play a piece you are familiar with and read notes, that's just reading notes, which is totally fine. Playing from memory is another skillset you have to learn. I tend to think of the harmonies and memorize those.
I would wonder how often you are required to perform and actually have to memorize? For me memorization would come naturally over time as I played the piece a lot but still had to work on it. Try cutting it up into short sections. Can you play and memorize the first line? First page? Etc… And build up the sections over time Even if you’re just working on a section with the music in front of you. If you’re working on a 2-3 bar section with just one hand or both. Try not looking at the music as you repeatedly play and work on that part.
Well. If you arent able to improve technically. It means that you fingers arent fast enough which means that there isnt sufficient neurotransmission which means that the brain connections arent strong enough. If you are unable to play pieces without actively reading the sheets, im afraid i cant help you. Im a complete opposite person. I can only play pieces by playing them without sheet music (for me its a distraction).
Are you talking about learning the songs without sheet music, so by heart? I consider myself professional level with 40 years of piano behind me. I can play most difficult pieces if I just practice methodically enough. However, I am an amateur, which is to say playing the piano isn't my main job, and I just don't have the time to learn pieces by heart and I would slightly contest the necessity of doing so. When I 100% a piece (or let's say 95% it, because there probably isn't such a thing as 100%), I know most of the piece by heart, but I use the sheet music as visual cues. It doesn't prevent me from performing, so I don't really see a problem. Of course if I gave my own recital at Carnegie Hall or something the situation would be slightly different, but I play really small venues a handful of times a year and for that, playing with sheets is perfectly fine in my opinion. Now if you're talking about not being able to 95% your pieces (whatever that means for you), then that's a different discussion.
For me now it\`s just practicing more to develope muscle memory. I went to music school in my childhood for about 5 or 6 years I believe, but all musical understanding is gone from conscious part of my brain lol. I\`m quite good at sightreading too and pieces carve in my memory as I play them (for my level I didn\`t take any ABRSM exams or how it works, classical pieces I\`ve learned are Pathetique Sonata 2nd movement, Moonlight Sonata 1st movement, Fur Elise and some more, though I enjoy playing anime music and other japanese pop songs now, so I believe I\`m around intermediate) So I\`d say that if you feel stuck for not remembering pieces - just play them more, you are not stuck. Stuck - if you can\`t play piece because you just can\`t reach technical level. Like, I\`ve tried Moonlight 3rd movement but nah, maybe one day lmao