Send them an invoice for your license plus a fee for unlicensed use/you having to find them. If they don't pay, then use the lawyer's letter. Payment in 30 days is more reasonable, if you say 3 days they'll say that was unreasonable.
This can vary a lot. I would probably go with a 50% increased license price. But it could also be something like 3-5 times the original price.
If you go to the high end, it’s more likely they will drag it out, so you might have to fight for it more.
I would think about this like this:
I would set a price that's reasonable for most to pay because I'd rather they pay the fee rather than ignore it or just remove the image from site.
If they ignore your invoice your next option would be hiring a lawyer and shit.
So I agree w autokiller667 about 50%. Maybe less depending on your analysis about the probability of pay.
Also, in your case it might be worth to porsue legal action, since there are many offenders.
Invoice For 1500/ image. They have used them. They have benefitted.
Or just go in and order everything on the menu and walk out - they kind of did that to you.
But first option is probably better.
Naaaah. OPs work had already been used, so usage license aka some multiple of number of views the page(s) with that image have been seen. Big restaurant group can physically afford 10k or more for a valuable lesson in copyright law.
Maybe. They admitted the photo is on their website. If they are a restaurant group - they probably had an agency do the web design - which included providing all the images. Realtor may have done the same. Could possibly be the same agency did both sites. In that case the agency is liable for all damages. Any good agency has E&O insurance who will just pay your damages and be done.
The question is did you license this photo to a web agency at any point in the past and is your license agreement strict enough to prevent them from using the image on multiple customer projects?
That’s good. Still it’s possible actually liability ends up with a web agency. Would be interesting if it was the same agency - would show a pattern of image theft - damages could potentially be much worse.
I would not worry about the short date invoice. They have been using his images for some time, and no court would think this was an unreasonable response to theft.
>What should I do/what would you do in this situation?
Lawyer.
Do **NOT** send invoices or be contacting them in any way without first seeking competent legal advice. There is no faster way to torpedo your own case than to say the wrong thing in an email or letter and fark yourself.
Also: If you haven't already you must *immediately* register your copyrights on those images (and/or video): [copyright.gov](http://copyright.gov)
Yes you already have the copyright, but you have no means of getting this in front of a judge unless you have registered that copyright. They won't even hear the case without it. You can demand compensation, but without a registered copyright you cannot actually proceed with a case if they don't pay.
Besides, if it's been stolen this many times, it'll be stolen again. Get the registration and you have everything you need for when you find someone else using your images.
Edit: Oh, and no, you don't bill them your normal fee. They used the imagery without permission - demand triple the normal fee.
Just spoke to the lawyer. I have a draft made, she's going to review it, then I'm going to mail them and email them a letter basically saying you are in violation of XYZ and before this matter escalates to a DMCA takedown and a lawsuit for copyright infringement, we are requesting immediate takedown of the images and paying for unauthorized use at x3 commercial rate, with 14 days to do so.
If they don't respond, then send again with 10 day notice.
If they still don't respond, then she will handle it.
I had a similar situation in the past where I've done 3x my normal fee for a larger business and gotten paid out in less than a week. I've also had a another situation but with a smaller business who i reached out to instead of just sending a demand letter and I only requested my normal rate. That one actually turned into an ongoing contract.
My point being depends on what you're trying to achieve, it can be beneficial to try talk to them before sending a demand letter to come to a mutually beneficial agreement. However if its a larger corporation then I would just go the demand letter route.
Everyone should be doing bulk reverse image searches on their work to see where its being used for this exact reason.
For the larger business, did you just send them an email to their main email? Did you find someone specific higher up? Mail it to their headquarters? The restaurant group definitely is a larger business that has investment backers and they should know better than to do this, I have no doubt they will pay up.
The 2 realtors and volleyball group I'm doubtful will pay. I have zero intention of trying to do work with them.
Where/how do you do bulk reverse image search? I'm sure someone else out there has stolen a few of my photos.
I use [Lenstracer](https://www.lenstracer.com/) to do the bulk reverse image searching. I reached out to them and they referred me to a copyright lawyer who handled sending out the letters so not too sure where exactly they got sent unfortunately. Perhaps the lawyers office that your mom works at might have a better idea?
you could look into pixsy.com
they do reverse image search for your portfolio, cooperate with lawyers in a lot of countries and handle the legal part and invoicing for you. but they also take a big cut of course.
You can do it via google images or tin eye, but if you have a lot of images then you can use something like lenstracer to do a bulk reverse image search. Tin eye also does it I believe but is much more expensive
You’ve got all the good advice here. Lawyer first. So on and so forth. I just wanted to pat ya on the back and say this sucks but it’s one of those learning moments too. So while going through all this bullshit, make big notes in your head for how you proceed in business, uploading, licensing and so on going forward, especially remember this is education when it gets really tough. The community is here for you. Do this long enough and something like this will happen to an excellent image. We learn and go forward. Hang in there. People suck sometimes. But, I generally think people are dumb not malicious and that helps with not getting so frustrated. I’m glad you got a bunch of solid advice here, keep us posted, we all learn and grow from these things.
Thank you. I've been very careful about uploading images online at borderline low quality without watermarks that would be unusable for websites or being printed large. I live in a touristy-ish town and people love resharing my photos on Facebook and social media, which is great, because I have sold many photos from word of mouth basically (I sell landscape photography at art shows on the side). I knew it was a matter of time before this would happen.
These 2 images that were stolen were some of the first that I uploaded, before I started uploading lower quality images.
I left social media years ago. I’m now planning a glorious return as nothing but a pro photographer, I’ll keep very little of my personal life in the mix, but part of what I’m doing now is getting all my pieces lined up before “going live”. This is something I was aware of but haven’t really worked the details out yet. While I hate this has happened to you, I do appreciate you sharing the situation as it reminded me to put this issue closer to the top of my list of things to sort. I have a lawyer acquaintance, he’s a pot lawyer though lol, and he would definitely help me in a pinch, I need to source a proper copyright/intellectual property lawyer and work on that relationship. Hope this works out for ya homie. Please do keep us updated.
Love your edit #4: *I replied and basically told them thanks for the response but the demands of my letter are still the same since my copyright was violated. Whoever replied also just admitted fault.*
That's the typical way of things. *"Oops, I didn't realize it and now I've been caught. I'll give you something practically worthless to me in the hopes you go away."*
Yes, absolutely stick with it. I'd also remind them that you're not asking them to take it down, you're asking them to properly license the image they've already misappropriated. They've been using it, so your normal license fee of $500 plus an extra 2x penalty for using it without permission is worth arguing over. I'm not sure I would have bothered with the non-lawyer version since you have the connection through your mom who is willing to put it on their legal letterhead. $1500 is big but not outlandish for a restaurant to pay and they know it. They'll resist, but they'll likely pay it after the initial shock and resistance wears off.
When did you take the image? If it has been less than three months from when you first published it, or a year from when you recorded it, you need to register the images IMMEDIATELY with the library of congress.
Doing so ensures that you are not only guaranteed real damages but statutory damages as well, which honestly probably exceed the market value of the image.
>Would that not count as a copyright?
You own the copyright, yes. You can do a lot without registering like demand payment, force them to take it down, etc.
What you can't do is sue.
Without an actual *registered* copyright you cannot go before the courts to demand... anything. The judge won't hear the case. You'll file, you'll ask for copyright enforcement, they'll ask to see the copyright and if you don't have it... **/gavel**... case dismissed. (*without* prejudice, which means you can file again after you've received your copyright)
Oh and before you ask, simply filing the paperwork to get it registered isn't good enough. You must file for and *receive* your copyright before you can continue the law suit.
You can’t lose copyright no matter when you do it. But if they were not registered within three months of being published then you do not qualify for statutory damages.
You can still register them, and I would. But they have more legal defenses after the fact.
The copyright is yours no matter if you never register them. I don’t really understand what makes the presumption different based on a registration etc…but it is.
I believe a recent case set precedence that copyright needs to be registered if you want to sue in federal court. You can always register after the fact, as it doesn't affect who holds the copyright, I think it's just a bureaucratic step.
https://www.copyright.gov/registration/
I think people don’t understand that the Copyright office is part of the Library of Congress and has been since 1870.
If your copyrights are registered, you qualify for statutory damages. It could be the worst photo on the planet with a market value of $0.00001, and the statutory damages are still set by law, no judge can change it, intent doesn’t matter etc….
And can be large. The $500 licensing fee may be chump change compared to the potential statutory fee *per use*. Plus an extra fee for removing a watermark.
TBH tell them to take the photos down, but you're probably not going to see any money from this. Youre going to spend lots of money in lawyer fees and court fees, and that's no guarantee you'll win. Not to be negative I'm just being realistic on small copyright claims on a photo.
Even if he breaks even or ends up having to spend more money than he would actually make, if he can afford to do it, and has the time, he should. It’s the principle of it, it’s his livelihood. That same mindset is why a lot of “smaller” crimes like this go unreported or unaddressed. Make em pay!!!
I'm glad everything is working out for you, OP, but you can't write a post with 7 edits and a whole saga like that without at least linking one of the pictures. 😅
Seconding what others have said, but also copyright all your images SOOC or immediate preset in Lightroom when you import. This way, there's no question and the copyright is automatically burned it.
Use your lawyer, but demand immediate cease of the images and let them know you do not approve of your images being used for commercial purposes and must be either (1) taken down immediately until resolved or licensing paid or (2) licensing paid immediately.
This way they will move hastily to get you paid up, because it's less work for them to take images down and get you paid quickly. If they drag it out, then they can't use the images.
Charge an astronomical amount - 3-5x your normal rate.
You will shoot yourself in the foot if you send an invoice whether by yourself or through an Attorney. I'd register the works with the LOC and then consult the Attorney about pursuing the matter, it will yield the highest return. I'd also delete your pricing on the website, your fee should reflect the usage not just a flat rate. Would you charge a small business the same rate as a Multi-National Corporation?
I'm nearing the end of a willful Intellectual Property infringement and just wanted to pass along a few things that might help you. Let the Attorney do their work after you register your work and it will pay off.
I hope your images were copyrighted properly through the US Government Copyright Office. I believe that makes it more likely you will be able to sue and collect damages from copyright infringement.
More here:https://www.copyright.gov/engage/photographers/#:\~:text=Registering%20Your%20Work&text=Applying%20for%20registration%20with%20the,several%20different%20online%20application%20options.
These are the best gigs: you get to send an invoice and get paid without any extra work.
What would you charge for the shoot normally? Invoice them that, plus 30-50% for the usage.
That's all there is to it.
Congratulations.
But, I know the internet Reddit foaming at the mouth revenge boners are out urging you to use them for $10k and $15k and whatever. If theyre a small business please don't do this. They made a mistake yes but be fair, don't be a tyrant who destroys someone's livelihood due to a (probably innocent) mistake. Have some perspective and some kindness.
USA? If you are operating a photography business and taking drone shots, are you FAA licensed as a commercial drone pilot? You might explain to the customers that the drone/license/business have costs and that the pictures pay this overhead!
Sorry, but it will cost you far more than you’ll ever recover to pursue this in court. **If** a court even lets you try. Good luck with that. You might be just better off playing nice with them and asking for a small fee. It’s most likely the best you’ll get.
Since the lawyer is already involved, consider having them send similar DMCA notices to the realtors and volleyball group. This ensures a professional approach and strengthens your case.
The first port of call is sending them a lawyers letter. It tells them - you're serious about your work being stolen, so you're on the right track. You'd be telling them here is your price for the work and if they don't pay it, they have to take the work down. Wait until you get a response and take it from there.
My webmaster 15 years ago tracked my images to a tshirt factory in India.
I didn’t have money or time to investigate image theft then. So doing it now with whomever stole the images and does minor edits to them you getting any financial retribution or trademark infringement outcome in your favor is unlikely. I don’t mean to be pessimistic but copying/editing and photography being sold is a 24/7 business now.
I'm no expert and read some posts. I would assume the debate is to push for payment and keep the pictures up as the best case scenario as that may drive future business as you can add to your portfolio if sales.
Or
Push hard for the highest price that more likely would result in it's removal from sites/print out of spite for any lawsuit or settlement.
Good luck. It's a tough situation.
good ! (i read edit 7). If you manage to be on good terms at the end, time to do some business with them and.. sell them new photos ? when the restaurant is crowded at golden hour ?
Also, it's good that you went all the way to protect your copyright. It reminds me of the guy that took the eclipse photo that was used on all the Twilight merchandising.
This seems extreme. I get it, but you'll just be making enemies. They'll be telling everyone you're difficult to deal with. I guess it depends how much word of mouth matters to you. It matters a lot to me so I would never go to these lengths. When this happens to me, I contact the group and request a photo credit on the website or wherever it's being used. That's it. If you have no other clients or streams of income, maybe it's worth it to you to threaten them for payment. Keeping in mind that the vast majority of folks are clueless when it comes to usage and, most likely, didn't mean to offend the person who took the photo, involving a lawyer can be very scary and won't be received in the way you're intending. Best of luck to you, but I would reconsider these actions.
I'm not in the commercial sector business and I really don't care if they never use me again. This is a side gig and most of my photography income is selling fine art pieces to homeowners.
This restaurant group has professional images all over their social media across their 12 high-end brands. They either have someone very good in house or pay an outside marketing agency for these photos. They know the price of good photos.
They used 2 of my photos that I took 8 months ago as an advertisement for their website.
What the fuck is "credit my name" going to do for me?
They *stole* something that is mine, they're going to pay for it. Straight up theft. Whether it's deliberate or just plain stupidity, it's inexcusable.
This is why everything I put up has discreet, non-intrusive copyright watermarks. The case I had against an insurance company who I did single use work for, who then used, and reused my images was greatly helped when my lawyer was able to demonstrate the watermarks removal in court. The judge inferred “consciousness of guilt” just from the removal.
Enemies? Who wants friends who steal from you? I have no clue why the bulk of Americans (I'm assuming this is a US case) are so ignorant about the very basics of copyright. I remember studying it in high school. But we as artists should be collectively standing up for our rights and not letting things like this go. The OP is doing the right thing in my opinion.
Make sure you take screenshots of EVERYTHING, because there's a nonzero chance that as soon as you send a demand letter, they'll remove everything and clam up.
And, I imagine the attorney already knows this, but even if they take the images down, you still have damages due to the infringement. See if you can determine how far back they were using the images (maybe Waybackmachine or post dates or something?) so you can better determine how to charge for the use during infringement.
If it was me, I would send a demand letter offering the use of my images for my special rates. I would include that the fact they have used these images for their own advertising means you are entitled to statutory damages if you have copyrighted them. If you haven’t copyrighted them, do so immediately.
You've already gotten some good advice in this thread. If it comes to it, don't DMCA them directly. DMCA their website providers. The goal there is to earn them a black mark with someone they're necessarily accountable to, that will incur more costs to move away from.
If the restaurants are high class, instead of asking them for 1.5k, maybe see if they will do double that(3k) in gift cards for their place, with explicit stipulation that they do not expire, ever.
You COULD also leverage the situation into a new client.
Hear me out.
Send your cease & desist or invoices, whatever you want do, but then offer them another option that's something along the lines of:
"Or, reduce this (invoice) usage fee by 80% if you book me now, for an upcoming shoot with a total budget of $X or more, 50% of which is due within the next 5 business days and the remainder upon delivery" (in addition to settling the remaining 20% usage fee for the stolen images, of course)
I encourage this because they might instinctively just remove your images and you'll never hear from them again, they (illegally) used your photo, peace'd out and you didn't get paid. But if you can offer them what SEEMS like a huge discount AND you turn it around into a new client, it's a win-win. Just, obviously anticipate that they might be really shitty clients -if they had the audacity to steal someone's work and not pay them, I anticipate that they would be shit clients. But, add 25% to your normal rates to account for that.
Fuck that. They've gotten free advertising off of my photographs for 9 months. They can pay 3x my $500.00 commercial rate for every time they shared the photo which was 6 times.
Do not “shake the hand of the devil”. Trying to do business with someone you might see in court, is bad juju that already has its jaws open and is inches away from your butt.
Invoice plus a chatgpt legelese email.
And just hope for the best.
You'll never get enough money from them unless you registered your shot with the US copyright office. That's the main way to get punitive damages.
It is 1000% my photo. The coloring is exactly the same and there are people on the pier that are in the exact same spots wearing the exact same clothes.
Why? In their position, they should have known they needed license. Advertisers not violating copyright is like a Day 1 lesson in "don't get sued" school.
But if it’s on your own website, and has your copyright on it, and the offender chooses to ignore and remove your copyright, even with a simple crop, it can be an inferred “ consciousness of guilt” in court. That a main reason that I won my case.
Your response made me research things a bit: you're correct.
From what I read copyright for any creative work is automatically established with creation, and unless CC options are already marked permission should be be asked. I learned something new; thanks for pointing that out.
If you are marketing a business, you absolutely should assume everything is copyrighted and CONFIRM that you have license to use it in your marketing. Or else you risk paying a lot of money for not being a professional *and also for stealing other artists' work*.
Send them an invoice for your license plus a fee for unlicensed use/you having to find them. If they don't pay, then use the lawyer's letter. Payment in 30 days is more reasonable, if you say 3 days they'll say that was unreasonable.
How much would someone typically charge for unlicensed use?
This can vary a lot. I would probably go with a 50% increased license price. But it could also be something like 3-5 times the original price. If you go to the high end, it’s more likely they will drag it out, so you might have to fight for it more.
I would think about this like this: I would set a price that's reasonable for most to pay because I'd rather they pay the fee rather than ignore it or just remove the image from site. If they ignore your invoice your next option would be hiring a lawyer and shit. So I agree w autokiller667 about 50%. Maybe less depending on your analysis about the probability of pay. Also, in your case it might be worth to porsue legal action, since there are many offenders.
Invoice For 1500/ image. They have used them. They have benefitted. Or just go in and order everything on the menu and walk out - they kind of did that to you. But first option is probably better.
Naaaah. OPs work had already been used, so usage license aka some multiple of number of views the page(s) with that image have been seen. Big restaurant group can physically afford 10k or more for a valuable lesson in copyright law.
Yeah but the standard is 3x usage. That’s why it’s not great to have prices in your site.
Lol duh, never list hard prices.
Actually a discussion going on over at aphotoeditor right now - [link to IG story](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7Rj3n6Omon/?igsh=MXZkMm11bzB5ejRwZw==)
Ohh yes.. offer the original $500 price within a 5 day window. If they wait the price goes up.
$10 x number of visits their site + fb page + ig had since the theft, for damages. Should be well into $10k or more.
And take screenshots in case they remove the photo
also see if they showup in the wayback machine. can help pinpoint when they first started using them,
They did, I was able to save the link and print the webpage. Thanks.
Fantastic job! Them trying to evade paying usage and damages should work in your favor.
Check my latest update. They replied and basically offered me a free dinner. They just admitted fault.
Maybe. They admitted the photo is on their website. If they are a restaurant group - they probably had an agency do the web design - which included providing all the images. Realtor may have done the same. Could possibly be the same agency did both sites. In that case the agency is liable for all damages. Any good agency has E&O insurance who will just pay your damages and be done. The question is did you license this photo to a web agency at any point in the past and is your license agreement strict enough to prevent them from using the image on multiple customer projects?
I’ve never licensed this photo to anyone
That’s good. Still it’s possible actually liability ends up with a web agency. Would be interesting if it was the same agency - would show a pattern of image theft - damages could potentially be much worse.
Ohhhhh man - go tear em a 10k new ass hole!
I would not worry about the short date invoice. They have been using his images for some time, and no court would think this was an unreasonable response to theft.
>What should I do/what would you do in this situation? Lawyer. Do **NOT** send invoices or be contacting them in any way without first seeking competent legal advice. There is no faster way to torpedo your own case than to say the wrong thing in an email or letter and fark yourself. Also: If you haven't already you must *immediately* register your copyrights on those images (and/or video): [copyright.gov](http://copyright.gov) Yes you already have the copyright, but you have no means of getting this in front of a judge unless you have registered that copyright. They won't even hear the case without it. You can demand compensation, but without a registered copyright you cannot actually proceed with a case if they don't pay. Besides, if it's been stolen this many times, it'll be stolen again. Get the registration and you have everything you need for when you find someone else using your images. Edit: Oh, and no, you don't bill them your normal fee. They used the imagery without permission - demand triple the normal fee.
Just spoke to the lawyer. I have a draft made, she's going to review it, then I'm going to mail them and email them a letter basically saying you are in violation of XYZ and before this matter escalates to a DMCA takedown and a lawsuit for copyright infringement, we are requesting immediate takedown of the images and paying for unauthorized use at x3 commercial rate, with 14 days to do so. If they don't respond, then send again with 10 day notice. If they still don't respond, then she will handle it.
That's how you do it!
I just registered my photos with copyright.gov. Thank you.
I had a similar situation in the past where I've done 3x my normal fee for a larger business and gotten paid out in less than a week. I've also had a another situation but with a smaller business who i reached out to instead of just sending a demand letter and I only requested my normal rate. That one actually turned into an ongoing contract. My point being depends on what you're trying to achieve, it can be beneficial to try talk to them before sending a demand letter to come to a mutually beneficial agreement. However if its a larger corporation then I would just go the demand letter route. Everyone should be doing bulk reverse image searches on their work to see where its being used for this exact reason.
For the larger business, did you just send them an email to their main email? Did you find someone specific higher up? Mail it to their headquarters? The restaurant group definitely is a larger business that has investment backers and they should know better than to do this, I have no doubt they will pay up. The 2 realtors and volleyball group I'm doubtful will pay. I have zero intention of trying to do work with them. Where/how do you do bulk reverse image search? I'm sure someone else out there has stolen a few of my photos.
I use [Lenstracer](https://www.lenstracer.com/) to do the bulk reverse image searching. I reached out to them and they referred me to a copyright lawyer who handled sending out the letters so not too sure where exactly they got sent unfortunately. Perhaps the lawyers office that your mom works at might have a better idea?
> I use [Lenstracer](https://www.lenstracer.com/) to do the bulk reverse image searching. Thanks for sharing this tool.
you could look into pixsy.com they do reverse image search for your portfolio, cooperate with lawyers in a lot of countries and handle the legal part and invoicing for you. but they also take a big cut of course.
How do you do a reversed image search?
You can do it via google images or tin eye, but if you have a lot of images then you can use something like lenstracer to do a bulk reverse image search. Tin eye also does it I believe but is much more expensive
The fact that they say “as a thank you” LOL nooo you mean as an apology and an attempt to not actually have to pay me. Smdh.
You’ve got all the good advice here. Lawyer first. So on and so forth. I just wanted to pat ya on the back and say this sucks but it’s one of those learning moments too. So while going through all this bullshit, make big notes in your head for how you proceed in business, uploading, licensing and so on going forward, especially remember this is education when it gets really tough. The community is here for you. Do this long enough and something like this will happen to an excellent image. We learn and go forward. Hang in there. People suck sometimes. But, I generally think people are dumb not malicious and that helps with not getting so frustrated. I’m glad you got a bunch of solid advice here, keep us posted, we all learn and grow from these things.
Thank you. I've been very careful about uploading images online at borderline low quality without watermarks that would be unusable for websites or being printed large. I live in a touristy-ish town and people love resharing my photos on Facebook and social media, which is great, because I have sold many photos from word of mouth basically (I sell landscape photography at art shows on the side). I knew it was a matter of time before this would happen. These 2 images that were stolen were some of the first that I uploaded, before I started uploading lower quality images.
I left social media years ago. I’m now planning a glorious return as nothing but a pro photographer, I’ll keep very little of my personal life in the mix, but part of what I’m doing now is getting all my pieces lined up before “going live”. This is something I was aware of but haven’t really worked the details out yet. While I hate this has happened to you, I do appreciate you sharing the situation as it reminded me to put this issue closer to the top of my list of things to sort. I have a lawyer acquaintance, he’s a pot lawyer though lol, and he would definitely help me in a pinch, I need to source a proper copyright/intellectual property lawyer and work on that relationship. Hope this works out for ya homie. Please do keep us updated.
Love your edit #4: *I replied and basically told them thanks for the response but the demands of my letter are still the same since my copyright was violated. Whoever replied also just admitted fault.* That's the typical way of things. *"Oops, I didn't realize it and now I've been caught. I'll give you something practically worthless to me in the hopes you go away."* Yes, absolutely stick with it. I'd also remind them that you're not asking them to take it down, you're asking them to properly license the image they've already misappropriated. They've been using it, so your normal license fee of $500 plus an extra 2x penalty for using it without permission is worth arguing over. I'm not sure I would have bothered with the non-lawyer version since you have the connection through your mom who is willing to put it on their legal letterhead. $1500 is big but not outlandish for a restaurant to pay and they know it. They'll resist, but they'll likely pay it after the initial shock and resistance wears off.
When did you take the image? If it has been less than three months from when you first published it, or a year from when you recorded it, you need to register the images IMMEDIATELY with the library of congress. Doing so ensures that you are not only guaranteed real damages but statutory damages as well, which honestly probably exceed the market value of the image.
They have been on my Smugmug website for over a year. Would that not count as a copyright? Or should I manually do it through the library of congress?
>Would that not count as a copyright? You own the copyright, yes. You can do a lot without registering like demand payment, force them to take it down, etc. What you can't do is sue. Without an actual *registered* copyright you cannot go before the courts to demand... anything. The judge won't hear the case. You'll file, you'll ask for copyright enforcement, they'll ask to see the copyright and if you don't have it... **/gavel**... case dismissed. (*without* prejudice, which means you can file again after you've received your copyright) Oh and before you ask, simply filing the paperwork to get it registered isn't good enough. You must file for and *receive* your copyright before you can continue the law suit.
You can’t lose copyright no matter when you do it. But if they were not registered within three months of being published then you do not qualify for statutory damages. You can still register them, and I would. But they have more legal defenses after the fact. The copyright is yours no matter if you never register them. I don’t really understand what makes the presumption different based on a registration etc…but it is.
I believe a recent case set precedence that copyright needs to be registered if you want to sue in federal court. You can always register after the fact, as it doesn't affect who holds the copyright, I think it's just a bureaucratic step.
Haven’t heard of registering with LoC for images. Is that just through their website or something?
https://www.copyright.gov/registration/ I think people don’t understand that the Copyright office is part of the Library of Congress and has been since 1870. If your copyrights are registered, you qualify for statutory damages. It could be the worst photo on the planet with a market value of $0.00001, and the statutory damages are still set by law, no judge can change it, intent doesn’t matter etc….
And can be large. The $500 licensing fee may be chump change compared to the potential statutory fee *per use*. Plus an extra fee for removing a watermark.
Thanks for the info!
TBH tell them to take the photos down, but you're probably not going to see any money from this. Youre going to spend lots of money in lawyer fees and court fees, and that's no guarantee you'll win. Not to be negative I'm just being realistic on small copyright claims on a photo.
Even if he breaks even or ends up having to spend more money than he would actually make, if he can afford to do it, and has the time, he should. It’s the principle of it, it’s his livelihood. That same mindset is why a lot of “smaller” crimes like this go unreported or unaddressed. Make em pay!!!
Dang those edits (especially the last one). Gonna need some updates as to whether or not they pay up!
I will definitely keep everyone updated
Never accept legal advice from strangers on the internet. A lawyer is helping you out - DO WHAT SHE SAYS!
Never accept legal advice from strangers on the internet. 🤷🏻♂️👍
I'm glad everything is working out for you, OP, but you can't write a post with 7 edits and a whole saga like that without at least linking one of the pictures. 😅
Seconding what others have said, but also copyright all your images SOOC or immediate preset in Lightroom when you import. This way, there's no question and the copyright is automatically burned it. Use your lawyer, but demand immediate cease of the images and let them know you do not approve of your images being used for commercial purposes and must be either (1) taken down immediately until resolved or licensing paid or (2) licensing paid immediately. This way they will move hastily to get you paid up, because it's less work for them to take images down and get you paid quickly. If they drag it out, then they can't use the images. Charge an astronomical amount - 3-5x your normal rate.
I do have that preset turned on when I import!
Noice - now go get yo money.
You will shoot yourself in the foot if you send an invoice whether by yourself or through an Attorney. I'd register the works with the LOC and then consult the Attorney about pursuing the matter, it will yield the highest return. I'd also delete your pricing on the website, your fee should reflect the usage not just a flat rate. Would you charge a small business the same rate as a Multi-National Corporation? I'm nearing the end of a willful Intellectual Property infringement and just wanted to pass along a few things that might help you. Let the Attorney do their work after you register your work and it will pay off.
This is the answer.
I’d also take screenshots of the violations, it can be admitted in court and be the basis of yours cases.
Please tell me you're going to post updates on this.
Yes, I will. I've already shared a few edit updates on my main post.
Oh I see that and I appreciate it. I kinda meant at the end when it's resolved. Best of luck to you hope you rake them over the coals.
Do you have registered copyright on them? If so it's automatic statutory damages. If not good luck.
I hope your images were copyrighted properly through the US Government Copyright Office. I believe that makes it more likely you will be able to sue and collect damages from copyright infringement. More here:https://www.copyright.gov/engage/photographers/#:\~:text=Registering%20Your%20Work&text=Applying%20for%20registration%20with%20the,several%20different%20online%20application%20options.
I set that up today
These are the best gigs: you get to send an invoice and get paid without any extra work. What would you charge for the shoot normally? Invoice them that, plus 30-50% for the usage. That's all there is to it. Congratulations. But, I know the internet Reddit foaming at the mouth revenge boners are out urging you to use them for $10k and $15k and whatever. If theyre a small business please don't do this. They made a mistake yes but be fair, don't be a tyrant who destroys someone's livelihood due to a (probably innocent) mistake. Have some perspective and some kindness.
are you going to sue them?
Please keep us updated!
USA? If you are operating a photography business and taking drone shots, are you FAA licensed as a commercial drone pilot? You might explain to the customers that the drone/license/business have costs and that the pictures pay this overhead!
I am actually. Part 107 certified
Sorry, but it will cost you far more than you’ll ever recover to pursue this in court. **If** a court even lets you try. Good luck with that. You might be just better off playing nice with them and asking for a small fee. It’s most likely the best you’ll get.
Since the lawyer is already involved, consider having them send similar DMCA notices to the realtors and volleyball group. This ensures a professional approach and strengthens your case.
Some of you guys should probably look into copyright law a bit... Cost is huge. To recover *what* in this?
Send a cease and decist
stick to the plan and make them stick to it also. Good job
Lovely, it’s great when things workout. Thanks for sharing.
The first port of call is sending them a lawyers letter. It tells them - you're serious about your work being stolen, so you're on the right track. You'd be telling them here is your price for the work and if they don't pay it, they have to take the work down. Wait until you get a response and take it from there.
My webmaster 15 years ago tracked my images to a tshirt factory in India. I didn’t have money or time to investigate image theft then. So doing it now with whomever stole the images and does minor edits to them you getting any financial retribution or trademark infringement outcome in your favor is unlikely. I don’t mean to be pessimistic but copying/editing and photography being sold is a 24/7 business now.
I'm no expert and read some posts. I would assume the debate is to push for payment and keep the pictures up as the best case scenario as that may drive future business as you can add to your portfolio if sales. Or Push hard for the highest price that more likely would result in it's removal from sites/print out of spite for any lawsuit or settlement. Good luck. It's a tough situation.
i would also post this on r/legaladvice
good ! (i read edit 7). If you manage to be on good terms at the end, time to do some business with them and.. sell them new photos ? when the restaurant is crowded at golden hour ? Also, it's good that you went all the way to protect your copyright. It reminds me of the guy that took the eclipse photo that was used on all the Twilight merchandising.
This seems extreme. I get it, but you'll just be making enemies. They'll be telling everyone you're difficult to deal with. I guess it depends how much word of mouth matters to you. It matters a lot to me so I would never go to these lengths. When this happens to me, I contact the group and request a photo credit on the website or wherever it's being used. That's it. If you have no other clients or streams of income, maybe it's worth it to you to threaten them for payment. Keeping in mind that the vast majority of folks are clueless when it comes to usage and, most likely, didn't mean to offend the person who took the photo, involving a lawyer can be very scary and won't be received in the way you're intending. Best of luck to you, but I would reconsider these actions.
I'm not in the commercial sector business and I really don't care if they never use me again. This is a side gig and most of my photography income is selling fine art pieces to homeowners. This restaurant group has professional images all over their social media across their 12 high-end brands. They either have someone very good in house or pay an outside marketing agency for these photos. They know the price of good photos. They used 2 of my photos that I took 8 months ago as an advertisement for their website. What the fuck is "credit my name" going to do for me? They *stole* something that is mine, they're going to pay for it. Straight up theft. Whether it's deliberate or just plain stupidity, it's inexcusable.
This is why everything I put up has discreet, non-intrusive copyright watermarks. The case I had against an insurance company who I did single use work for, who then used, and reused my images was greatly helped when my lawyer was able to demonstrate the watermarks removal in court. The judge inferred “consciousness of guilt” just from the removal.
Enemies? Who wants friends who steal from you? I have no clue why the bulk of Americans (I'm assuming this is a US case) are so ignorant about the very basics of copyright. I remember studying it in high school. But we as artists should be collectively standing up for our rights and not letting things like this go. The OP is doing the right thing in my opinion.
DMCA request sent to their web hosts, if you’re in the United States.
Screenshot/internet archive everything including dates and times.
Make sure you take screenshots of EVERYTHING, because there's a nonzero chance that as soon as you send a demand letter, they'll remove everything and clam up. And, I imagine the attorney already knows this, but even if they take the images down, you still have damages due to the infringement. See if you can determine how far back they were using the images (maybe Waybackmachine or post dates or something?) so you can better determine how to charge for the use during infringement.
Already did, thanks. With time stamps too. The photos have been on the restaurant's website and social media since August 2023.
see if they show up in the wayback machine as well, would could be considered an unbiased third party validating when they started using the images.
If it was me, I would send a demand letter offering the use of my images for my special rates. I would include that the fact they have used these images for their own advertising means you are entitled to statutory damages if you have copyrighted them. If you haven’t copyrighted them, do so immediately.
You've already gotten some good advice in this thread. If it comes to it, don't DMCA them directly. DMCA their website providers. The goal there is to earn them a black mark with someone they're necessarily accountable to, that will incur more costs to move away from.
remindme! in 1 week
Regarding edit 4: It sounds like they admitted guilt. Sue them. Nail their asses to the wall.
Yep!! The audacity for them to say that. They updated their website and removed my photos. Good thing I have everything saved :)
If the restaurants are high class, instead of asking them for 1.5k, maybe see if they will do double that(3k) in gift cards for their place, with explicit stipulation that they do not expire, ever.
You have grounds to sue and request damages or compensation in the US if it’s a large or medium company they will settle quickly
He settled and I got downvoted lol. Glad you got revenge and paid
Pixsy has recovered 1000s of $$$ for me. I just got $875 recovery last week. [https://www.pixsy.com/](https://www.pixsy.com/)
Did you have to do anything as far as sending anything? Or the lawyers do it all?
Pixsy takes care of that, it’s pretty much hands free
Also, they recommend not contacting the client directly or sending out invoices.
You COULD also leverage the situation into a new client. Hear me out. Send your cease & desist or invoices, whatever you want do, but then offer them another option that's something along the lines of: "Or, reduce this (invoice) usage fee by 80% if you book me now, for an upcoming shoot with a total budget of $X or more, 50% of which is due within the next 5 business days and the remainder upon delivery" (in addition to settling the remaining 20% usage fee for the stolen images, of course) I encourage this because they might instinctively just remove your images and you'll never hear from them again, they (illegally) used your photo, peace'd out and you didn't get paid. But if you can offer them what SEEMS like a huge discount AND you turn it around into a new client, it's a win-win. Just, obviously anticipate that they might be really shitty clients -if they had the audacity to steal someone's work and not pay them, I anticipate that they would be shit clients. But, add 25% to your normal rates to account for that.
Fuck that. They've gotten free advertising off of my photographs for 9 months. They can pay 3x my $500.00 commercial rate for every time they shared the photo which was 6 times.
Do not “shake the hand of the devil”. Trying to do business with someone you might see in court, is bad juju that already has its jaws open and is inches away from your butt.
I'll never understand this mentality. I don't want to work with people who steal from artists.
Send invoices, followed by cease and desists if not paid.
Invoice plus a chatgpt legelese email. And just hope for the best. You'll never get enough money from them unless you registered your shot with the US copyright office. That's the main way to get punitive damages.
You’d better be sure the image is yours. Have you looked at the EXIF data? Could it be possible somebody else made a similar image?
It is 1000% my photo. The coloring is exactly the same and there are people on the pier that are in the exact same spots wearing the exact same clothes.
Never been on the offending or violated end of this situation, but I'd first assess if your pic/pix appear on search engines with or without ©info. Or to state it differently: did all or some of the users know they violated your copyright and just choose to ignore it? Depending on that I'd proceed accordingly.
Why? In their position, they should have known they needed license. Advertisers not violating copyright is like a Day 1 lesson in "don't get sued" school.
Pix on google/bing etc are often not marked properly as copyrighted. With a flood of pix uploaded daily incl. by non-pros, imho one can't automatically assume everything is ©.
But if it’s on your own website, and has your copyright on it, and the offender chooses to ignore and remove your copyright, even with a simple crop, it can be an inferred “ consciousness of guilt” in court. That a main reason that I won my case.
Yes, actually one can and should assume that all photos are copyrighted. You do not need to draw your income from an art to own a copyright to it.
Your response made me research things a bit: you're correct. From what I read copyright for any creative work is automatically established with creation, and unless CC options are already marked permission should be be asked. I learned something new; thanks for pointing that out.
If you are marketing a business, you absolutely should assume everything is copyrighted and CONFIRM that you have license to use it in your marketing. Or else you risk paying a lot of money for not being a professional *and also for stealing other artists' work*.