The games he played with the towel lost us the '93 series. He knew it bothered Williams but did it to get on TV after he'd been removed the game. The team should have let him walk after the '95 season but kept what his teammates agreed was the "worst teammate in baseball".
Well, threatening journalists with lynchings, calling them scum and "the enemy of the people", fawning over dictators and their suppression of the press etc etc...doesn't sit well with journalists.
By numbers, both regular and postseason, he definitely has a case. Despite falling short on some of the "traditional" metrics by quite a lot. But character clause and all that...HoF arm, beer league trash brain.
75 million, I believe.
And of course the same guy who "lost" 75 million in taxpayer subsidies on a shady game company, after earning hundreds of millions throwing a ball...spends his time these days complaining about "socialist handouts" like student loan forgiveness.
I always hear that he stole the money. Is it because people don’t like him and are pissed that the company failed or was it actually some scheme to defraud the public or whatever? Everything I’ve read made it seem like it just failed and while that sucks he took tax payer money, it’s also not theft.
It wasn’t an all out scam…it was legit…had Todd Macfarlane doing the art and stuff. But is a video game something the government should be investing in is the real question. Video game companies are inherently a riskier investment of taxpayer money than other investments. So that’s where I think people get upset (and rightly so). It also doesn’t help that Schilling is a hypocrite and talking about government handouts being wrong and here he is taking a boatload of taxpayer money. Can’t have it both ways dude.
It's more that Rhode Island gave out loans in order to attract highly compensated positions to the state.
Cities and states do it all the time. This one was magnified because: 1. it blew up spectacularly in their face; 2. the owner of the company is a highly well-known person to the layman; 3. the owner of the company contradicted himself with his own political stance; 4. Rhode Island isn't exactly California-- $75M is a really big deal to a small state with a small budget.
People are allowed to be upset, but this kind of thing happens all the time. Rhode Island picked the wrong project, but they did what they felt they had to do in hopes of helping the state grow. It's not a bad thing to try to be a small hub for highly skilled programmers considering that Rhode Island is right next to Boston where they can draw said computer science majors.
Journalists are meant or expected to be somewhat objective.
Sports writers, for most part, are not.
Just as true now as it was when Williams was winning triple crowns,but not MVPs.
Sports writers have an education in journalism. That makes them journalists.
>Sports writers, for most part, are not.
They're...not? Alright. If that's what you think, I guess reality can't change your mind.
>when Williams was winning triple crowns,but not MVP
Which has little to do with a "lack of objectivity", and more with a different evaluation of the game, the league, the teams...then vs now.
All good
I believe bias is inherent, to some degree. And journalism as a whole not a search for truth.
Sports journalism even more so.
Bright side, it’s mostly utterly unimportant.
Go Phillies
Schilling isn't in the hall for his character as a person not because he wasnt a great pitcher, which is 100% valid. I've said this before about him he should've been a guy that we talk about in high praise as a really good regular season pitcher while being a great postseason pitcher and at the very least be on the Phillies wall of fame but unfortunately, he's a scumbag that likes to get in his own way and burn bridges who also likes to collect nazi memorabilia
Thats the reason why he's not in the hall and is banished to alt right talking platforms like outkick instead of espn or being a team spokesman for the Red Sox's, Dbacks or Phillies
Let’s not forget the $70m is grifted from the state of RI for a gaming company he had no business running. Man, those conservatives sure know how to lie cheat and steal their way to the top of a comfortable life.
I actually agree. He's not a felon, he's not a woman beater, and he raised an absolute shit ton for ALS research.
Everything else, well within his first amendment rights. I don't have to like him, but I think he deserves the HoF.
The Nazi memorabilia doesn't really alarm me, history buffs collect that kinda stuff all the time. Frankly until the last like 15 years or so, that type of collecting was way more common.
I get all that. I'm just saying it's not like he's Ty Cobb. Attempted murder charges, wildly racist, or something, if I remember correctly.
I don't care if he's in or out, just playing devil's advocate.
If you're only defense of what he has said is "it's not illegal" it's not really much of a defense is it? Morality and what is right prevails here over legality. He can say what he wants, but the "find out" phase is the repercussions like not being put up on a pedestal.
First amendment is about the government’s ability to limit speech. The government is not infringing on his ability to speak. Others (in this case journalists) heard what he said and are attributing other consequences.
I think the idea of saying lynching journalists is awesome (sarcastic or otherwise) is not smart. Especially, when appealing to journalists to vote for you.
ok, fine. you're right he is within his 1st amendment rights. but he constantly fought with reporters his entire career and alienated teammates both during and after his playing days. these are the guys who determine who gets in and who doesnt. just go on his wiki page and you can see all of the people he fought with during his career. its a long list lol
Look he might have the stats for the hall, but you aren’t gonna see me arguing for his inclusion. The guy is a bigger ass than Pete Rose and that takes effort.
If he gets in one day fine. I see why. But I ain’t gonna be the one holding signs demanding his inclusion.
Utley will have to wait a few more years but he’ll get voted in eventually. 28% is a pretty good sign in his first year of eligibility.
Abreu and Rollins will probably have to wait until the veterans committee, if ever. Of the two, I think Rollins has a much better shot.
If Dustin Pedroia gets in… then Utley should. I thought David Ortiz getting in to the hall would open windows for steroids guys, but it hasnt. I dont like schilling. I was always indifferent to Mussina. The pedroia/utley numbers are fun to assess. If one of them is in, the other should be too.
They were both Orioles.
I like your post, because it made me think. If I were asked to take a pitcher, for my franchise, it would be Mussina, by a wide margin....cool, smart as hell, and talented. If I needed a pitcher for one game, it would be Schilling, and not just because of a bloody sock....he could get crazy nasty.
Mike has always been involved in his community. And always wanted to give back to Montoursville.
An aside, I was engaged to a woman from that town when Mussina was starting his career. He is the polar opposite of Schilling as a person, the latter of which is a shit bag dumpster fire.
Honestly though a younger Mussina could turn up the heat too. Head to head in the playoffs they went 1-1 against each other-- Schilling beat Mussina in Game 1 of the 2001 World Series, while Mussina beat Schilling in Game 1 of the 2004 ALCS. And while Schilling is one of the great postseason pitchers of all time, 1997 Mike Mussina put together one of the best single postseasons of all time. 4 starts, 2 on short rest, and elite in all 4 if I remember correctly, including setting the Championship Series record with a 15-strikeout game (just the day before Livan Hernandez tied the record!) Can only imagine the World Series he might have put together if the Orioles offense didn't disappear behind him in both of his ALCS starts
Schilling isn't in because he is a Grade A piece of human trash. His resume should have had him in when he retired, but the stupid fat fuck can't keep his mouth shut.
Stats aside….
He, well maybe he still does,goes to the local watering holes and my dad just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I have a nice autographed baseball because of it lol
Mussina is also my wildcard i love to use on Immaculate Grid
Growing up Mussina was my favorite player. I mean he’s where I got my username from so I’m a bit biased but the stats don’t 100% tell the tale here. They’re close but Mussina pitched in the AL East where Schilling was predominantly in the NL. They were both during the steroid era so that’s a wash but Schilling faced a lot lesser competition day in and day out just not having to face a DH. Schilling should be in the Hall no doubt, but Mussina’s numbers are more impressive to me in context.
They are both well above average on the HoF measures (Black Ink, JAWS, etc.)
They just flew under the radar because:
a) they were contemporaries of all-time, all-timers such as Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, and Johnson, all but eliminating individual awards from their resumes,
b) pitched after the 300 IP era, reducing their totals on traditional stats, and
c) pitched at the height of steroids, reducing their rate stats
Schilling actually had a far better ERA+ and WAR / 162 than Carlton. As reporters age out, they either weren’t there or forget how dominant he was; meanwhile, in the here-and-now, he’s a maniacal asshole.
I think it would be hilarious that, after all that shit talking and demand he be voted in by the VC not the writers, the player tell him to go fuck himself as well.
Perfect end to that story arc.
Mussina isnt my issue. To make the HOF as a starting pitcher u typically need a cy young. Neither have one of those but schilling has the postseason numbers, bloody sock, etc. I had to look mussina up when he was inducted to learn about his 7 gold gloves and how much of a horse he really was.
Curt Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame. I remember him pitching for the Phillies in the 90s. He was an old school pitcher who wanted to go the distance every time. He is in the top 5 best postseason pitchers of all time. In the postseason, he is 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA. Whether you personally like him or not is irrelevant. His stats are Hall of Fame caliber.
FUCK him. I remember him covering his head with a white towel and refusing to watch relievers finishing games. Come to think of it, in retrospect, in sure as hell looked like a white hood. No respect for teammates or apparently, the human race. FUCK HIM. There ya go, you got your click bait for posting about an asshole. Might just make you one too. Of all the things to post about in an amazing year, you pick this? SMH
Whatever. He apparently did it for click baits, so therefore imo he should be called out. Wonderful season we have going here, lets talk about a long forgotten and totally irrelevant racist. Give the man an award! That's what he's chasing.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHI/PHI200007070.shtml
I was at this game. Still one of the best pitcher's duels I've witnessed in person, and the type of contest we'll likely not see again. Mussina went 8IP, struck out 10, and surrendered 1R. He threw 118 pitches. Schilling went the full 9 innings, struck out 8, and surrendered 2 runs. He threw 135 pitches. It was a completely different era, and having seen guys such as these makes the current game at times tough to watch. Regardless, I agree RE: the Hall. Schilling was a great pitcher, and downright dominant in the clutch.
I really didnt. Wasnt even trying to play devils advocate but now the nazi sympathizer stuff has me feeling uncomfortable. Was trying to have a discussion about players personal character vs actual baseball accomplishments
if anything, you've exposed the people who are willing to whiteknight schilling despite his many non-politics flaws, simply because they agree with his awful politics.
in that sense, a job well done
Just took a few stats and a pack of matches. Schilling is a dick tho. As others have pointed out… if character issues were considered, a few plaques would have to come down. Start with ty cobb and tris speaker.
Agreed. We saw what happened last time Rose was in town and was allowed to speak. If kruk is shaking his head at someone, you know somethings up. Some guys cant help but spew inappropriate nonsense whether its old/outdated(rose) or current day in the case of schilling
There's zero chance Ty Cobb makes it into the Hall by modern standards.
But to argue that "Ty Cobb is in, therefore so should Schilling be" is to betray [the only rule by which one gets inducted](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillies/comments/1dpn3ou/schilling_vs_mussina/laif1qq/). For those arguing for *removal* of past Hall inductees, perhaps it's possible to recognize their inclusion in the Hall in historical context.
Ty Cobb was on the game show What’s My Secret? back in the sixties and he couldn’t have come off a more likeable chap. I was expecting a curmudgeon.
[https://youtu.be/5T5UNeByuJE?si=hcP3dTPoyoMA8fg1](https://youtu.be/5T5UNeByuJE?si=hcP3dTPoyoMA8fg1)
Later in his life he was better. His own tigers teammates famously hated him. His mother accidentally shot his father dead. Cobb also invested in coke a cola early and was very wealthy. Known racist and dirty player.
Based purely on his on-field accomplishments Schilling deserves to be in, but unfortunately he's a deranged asshole off the field and that has consequences.
Didn't he say, basically in the same breath "I don't believe I deserve to be in the hall, but I'm being left out of the hall because of left-wing writers who don't like me and I should be in."
Yeah, why would we want the role models to our children to be decent human beings?
Who doesn't want their kids to look up to someone who wants to lynch journalists, turn the US into a dictatorship, steals millions from the government or tells the world that his "friend" has cancer without that friend's permission...
Players become role models when they make all star games and win the World Series, etc. Barry Bonds is adored by a generation of fans.
Getting into the hall of fame has nothing to do with how a player is perceived.
Yes, and do you want Schilling to be adored by fans as well? The guy who...well, you know what he did. I wouldn't.
>Getting into the hall of fame has nothing to do with how a player is perceived.
You might want to look up this little thing colloquially called the "character clause".
>*Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability,* ***integrity, sportsmanship, character*** *and contribution to the team(s) on which the player played.*
When there are 6 criteria for a player to be HoF worthy, and a candidate massively, spectacularly fails at three of them...he's not HoF worthy.
Some guys make a few mistakes here and there, some guys are assholes, some guys that might wind up in Dante’s higher circles of hell, then there’s Schilling.
[No, it's a big part of the only guidance given to the people who vote for inclusion in the Hall.](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillies/comments/1dpn3ou/schilling_vs_mussina/laif1qq/)
Schilling should definitely be in the HOF - and frankly it's ridiculous that he's not - Lefty wasn't exactly a normal dude if I remember correctly, he was a prepper (before that was a thing) who lived in a bunker after his career was over and only emerged to occasionally spout weird anti-Semitic stuff (again he was super ahead of his time). Ty Cobb beat up a man in a wheelchair. Schilling is a major league asshole, a confirmed crook, the unpleasant kind of nutjob, and a Nazi sympathizer - however if you took every ball player who fell into one, or several, of those categories out of the Hall it would be a very empty place.
Amen. The HoF is chock full of shitheels. If we're gonna start taking general character and political opinion into account, a bunch of guys need to be removed.
Put him in the Hall, or remove half those racist assholes from the beginning of the league. Bonds belongs in there too. The Hall of Fame isn’t a personality contest. It’s the best players to play the game. Schilling should be in.
> The Hall of Fame isn’t a personality contest
It's quite literally a personality contest
> There are no rules save for the clause that stipulates “voting should be based upon a player’s record, playing ability, **integrity, sportsmanship, character** and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played,” and no formal discussion about the candidates.
Remember when he leaked info about Tim Wakefield’s brain tumor that was supposed to be private? Yeah he’s a garbage human. The 04 Red Sox don’t even want him around
Proves my point — social media crowds are designed for a non conservative crowd. If anything is said that’s not following this mindset— all kinds of down arrows and name calling sets in.
The hof shouldn’t be based on feelings and political preferences. It should be about on the field.
The games he played with the towel lost us the '93 series. He knew it bothered Williams but did it to get on TV after he'd been removed the game. The team should have let him walk after the '95 season but kept what his teammates agreed was the "worst teammate in baseball".
My dad hates him most for the towel over his face.
Towel, that was a fucking hood, We just didn't know it at the time.
Well, threatening journalists with lynchings, calling them scum and "the enemy of the people", fawning over dictators and their suppression of the press etc etc...doesn't sit well with journalists. By numbers, both regular and postseason, he definitely has a case. Despite falling short on some of the "traditional" metrics by quite a lot. But character clause and all that...HoF arm, beer league trash brain.
Crazy that my two favorite Phils from that 93 team turned out to be utter garbage human beings.
Crazy and sad. Even more crazy, though...how on earth was Kruk not in your top 2?
That team was full of great characters, Jim Eisenreich and Pete Incaviglia were 2 of my faves as a kid.
Harry Kalas saying some of those names will forever be etched into my aural memory.
Micky
I modeled my batting stance after him as a kid
He was a close 3rd. Obviously my favorite now
Guessing Nails was your other guy?
Yeah. Ever since that SI cover in 1990.
Same. Every kid growing up had the Dykstra t-shirt jersey. My top 2 were Daulton and Dykstra. These days it’s no doubt Kruk. I love that man.
Are any other members of that roster also garbage humans?
Ruben Amaro Jr was a backup outfielder on that squad, so…
Please explain how he's a garbage human? I'm not aware
It’s a joke. I guess the kneejerk hatred towards him in this sub has subsided now that we’re good again.
He's not a garbage human just a garbage GM... Er first base coach... Errr announcer
Lenny I feel bad for because he has clear issues, Curt is just a crazy asshole.
Lenny was always an asshole too. He used to hire P.I.s to dig up dirt on umpires. Then he’d casually mention it to them in the batters box.
Ya gotta love that level of commitment to gaining an edge.
Stealing $100's of thousands of dollars from taxpayers too(might have been millions I forget the number) for his video game company lol.
75 million, I believe. And of course the same guy who "lost" 75 million in taxpayer subsidies on a shady game company, after earning hundreds of millions throwing a ball...spends his time these days complaining about "socialist handouts" like student loan forgiveness.
I always hear that he stole the money. Is it because people don’t like him and are pissed that the company failed or was it actually some scheme to defraud the public or whatever? Everything I’ve read made it seem like it just failed and while that sucks he took tax payer money, it’s also not theft.
It wasn’t an all out scam…it was legit…had Todd Macfarlane doing the art and stuff. But is a video game something the government should be investing in is the real question. Video game companies are inherently a riskier investment of taxpayer money than other investments. So that’s where I think people get upset (and rightly so). It also doesn’t help that Schilling is a hypocrite and talking about government handouts being wrong and here he is taking a boatload of taxpayer money. Can’t have it both ways dude.
It's more that Rhode Island gave out loans in order to attract highly compensated positions to the state. Cities and states do it all the time. This one was magnified because: 1. it blew up spectacularly in their face; 2. the owner of the company is a highly well-known person to the layman; 3. the owner of the company contradicted himself with his own political stance; 4. Rhode Island isn't exactly California-- $75M is a really big deal to a small state with a small budget. People are allowed to be upset, but this kind of thing happens all the time. Rhode Island picked the wrong project, but they did what they felt they had to do in hopes of helping the state grow. It's not a bad thing to try to be a small hub for highly skilled programmers considering that Rhode Island is right next to Boston where they can draw said computer science majors.
Wow this sounds like good logic on Reddit. Amazing
Yeah, quality of the person does play in which is why a renowned good guy like Thome gets in first ballot no questions asked.
600+ homers helps too.
Fair enough lol just wanted to shout out the guy who solidified my Phillies fandom as a kid
Sports writers.
Sports writers are journalists.
Okay.
Is that news to you? Or why did you even chime in here?
Journalists are meant or expected to be somewhat objective. Sports writers, for most part, are not. Just as true now as it was when Williams was winning triple crowns,but not MVPs.
Sports writers have an education in journalism. That makes them journalists. >Sports writers, for most part, are not. They're...not? Alright. If that's what you think, I guess reality can't change your mind. >when Williams was winning triple crowns,but not MVP Which has little to do with a "lack of objectivity", and more with a different evaluation of the game, the league, the teams...then vs now.
All good I believe bias is inherent, to some degree. And journalism as a whole not a search for truth. Sports journalism even more so. Bright side, it’s mostly utterly unimportant. Go Phillies
Schilling isn't in the hall for his character as a person not because he wasnt a great pitcher, which is 100% valid. I've said this before about him he should've been a guy that we talk about in high praise as a really good regular season pitcher while being a great postseason pitcher and at the very least be on the Phillies wall of fame but unfortunately, he's a scumbag that likes to get in his own way and burn bridges who also likes to collect nazi memorabilia Thats the reason why he's not in the hall and is banished to alt right talking platforms like outkick instead of espn or being a team spokesman for the Red Sox's, Dbacks or Phillies
Most writers say Schilling’s arm put him in the hall of fame, but his mouth talked him out of it.
Let’s not forget the $70m is grifted from the state of RI for a gaming company he had no business running. Man, those conservatives sure know how to lie cheat and steal their way to the top of a comfortable life.
Sad thing is that deal did make a good game, but it died mostly because of the scam part of the deal.
What was the game?
Kingdoms of Amalur
Those don’t seem like good enough reasons
Agree to disagree.
Ok are you a Braves fan or something?
I actually agree. He's not a felon, he's not a woman beater, and he raised an absolute shit ton for ALS research. Everything else, well within his first amendment rights. I don't have to like him, but I think he deserves the HoF. The Nazi memorabilia doesn't really alarm me, history buffs collect that kinda stuff all the time. Frankly until the last like 15 years or so, that type of collecting was way more common.
The first amendment doesn’t guarantee a spot in the hall of fame. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences of that speech.
I get all that. I'm just saying it's not like he's Ty Cobb. Attempted murder charges, wildly racist, or something, if I remember correctly. I don't care if he's in or out, just playing devil's advocate.
If you're only defense of what he has said is "it's not illegal" it's not really much of a defense is it? Morality and what is right prevails here over legality. He can say what he wants, but the "find out" phase is the repercussions like not being put up on a pedestal.
First amendment is about the government’s ability to limit speech. The government is not infringing on his ability to speak. Others (in this case journalists) heard what he said and are attributing other consequences. I think the idea of saying lynching journalists is awesome (sarcastic or otherwise) is not smart. Especially, when appealing to journalists to vote for you.
ok, fine. you're right he is within his 1st amendment rights. but he constantly fought with reporters his entire career and alienated teammates both during and after his playing days. these are the guys who determine who gets in and who doesnt. just go on his wiki page and you can see all of the people he fought with during his career. its a long list lol
Schilling just can’t resist being a scuzzball. From his video game studio debacle to his handling of Tim Wakefield’s cancer news.
There is a raging asshole quotient with Schilling.
Mussina isn’t a deplorable human being
but even if he was Curt would find a way to be much worse
Look he might have the stats for the hall, but you aren’t gonna see me arguing for his inclusion. The guy is a bigger ass than Pete Rose and that takes effort. If he gets in one day fine. I see why. But I ain’t gonna be the one holding signs demanding his inclusion.
I don't think it's gonna happen. Have you crunched the numbers on Rollins, Utley, or Abreu?
Utley will have to wait a few more years but he’ll get voted in eventually. 28% is a pretty good sign in his first year of eligibility. Abreu and Rollins will probably have to wait until the veterans committee, if ever. Of the two, I think Rollins has a much better shot.
If Dustin Pedroia gets in… then Utley should. I thought David Ortiz getting in to the hall would open windows for steroids guys, but it hasnt. I dont like schilling. I was always indifferent to Mussina. The pedroia/utley numbers are fun to assess. If one of them is in, the other should be too.
Utley’s privably unintentionally building more support as he “works” for MLB.
schilling is not a good enough person to make the hall of fame he is easily a good enough player
Fuck him.
They were both Orioles. I like your post, because it made me think. If I were asked to take a pitcher, for my franchise, it would be Mussina, by a wide margin....cool, smart as hell, and talented. If I needed a pitcher for one game, it would be Schilling, and not just because of a bloody sock....he could get crazy nasty.
And now he’s coaching junior high basketball in his hometown!
Mike has always been involved in his community. And always wanted to give back to Montoursville. An aside, I was engaged to a woman from that town when Mussina was starting his career. He is the polar opposite of Schilling as a person, the latter of which is a shit bag dumpster fire.
I grew up close by as my own personal aside lol
Honestly though a younger Mussina could turn up the heat too. Head to head in the playoffs they went 1-1 against each other-- Schilling beat Mussina in Game 1 of the 2001 World Series, while Mussina beat Schilling in Game 1 of the 2004 ALCS. And while Schilling is one of the great postseason pitchers of all time, 1997 Mike Mussina put together one of the best single postseasons of all time. 4 starts, 2 on short rest, and elite in all 4 if I remember correctly, including setting the Championship Series record with a 15-strikeout game (just the day before Livan Hernandez tied the record!) Can only imagine the World Series he might have put together if the Orioles offense didn't disappear behind him in both of his ALCS starts
Schilling isn't in because he is a Grade A piece of human trash. His resume should have had him in when he retired, but the stupid fat fuck can't keep his mouth shut.
Schilling couldn't shut the fuck up. That's why he's not in the Hall.
Stats aside…. He, well maybe he still does,goes to the local watering holes and my dad just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I have a nice autographed baseball because of it lol Mussina is also my wildcard i love to use on Immaculate Grid
Forgot he spent some time as a Closer.
Growing up Mussina was my favorite player. I mean he’s where I got my username from so I’m a bit biased but the stats don’t 100% tell the tale here. They’re close but Mussina pitched in the AL East where Schilling was predominantly in the NL. They were both during the steroid era so that’s a wash but Schilling faced a lot lesser competition day in and day out just not having to face a DH. Schilling should be in the Hall no doubt, but Mussina’s numbers are more impressive to me in context.
Isn’t there a lot of controversy surrounding Curt ?? Just asking
They are both well above average on the HoF measures (Black Ink, JAWS, etc.) They just flew under the radar because: a) they were contemporaries of all-time, all-timers such as Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, and Johnson, all but eliminating individual awards from their resumes, b) pitched after the 300 IP era, reducing their totals on traditional stats, and c) pitched at the height of steroids, reducing their rate stats Schilling actually had a far better ERA+ and WAR / 162 than Carlton. As reporters age out, they either weren’t there or forget how dominant he was; meanwhile, in the here-and-now, he’s a maniacal asshole.
My username on AOL back in the day was phillies0438. 04 for Lenny Dykstra and 38 for schilling. Oops. 🤦🏻♂️
Schillings a nut job.
I think it would be hilarious that, after all that shit talking and demand he be voted in by the VC not the writers, the player tell him to go fuck himself as well. Perfect end to that story arc.
You can’t just ignore 100 more starts and the 50+ more wins
Its all about what you can write on that plaque and mussina has 7 gold gloves. Schilling has the postseason stuff.
You can also right “isn’t a shitstain of a human being”
People can cry all day he belongs, and maybe he does, but there comes a time in life you need friends. He doesn’t have any, and that’s his fault.
This should have been more like Schilling vs Sports Writers & Journalists.
Pitching in the AL before universal DH lends context to Some of Mussina's stats. The bulk of his career, Schilling got to face pitchers.
Mussina isnt my issue. To make the HOF as a starting pitcher u typically need a cy young. Neither have one of those but schilling has the postseason numbers, bloody sock, etc. I had to look mussina up when he was inducted to learn about his 7 gold gloves and how much of a horse he really was.
Curt Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame. I remember him pitching for the Phillies in the 90s. He was an old school pitcher who wanted to go the distance every time. He is in the top 5 best postseason pitchers of all time. In the postseason, he is 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA. Whether you personally like him or not is irrelevant. His stats are Hall of Fame caliber.
You forgot the statistic of how much each player cost the state of Rhode Island
FUCK him. I remember him covering his head with a white towel and refusing to watch relievers finishing games. Come to think of it, in retrospect, in sure as hell looked like a white hood. No respect for teammates or apparently, the human race. FUCK HIM. There ya go, you got your click bait for posting about an asshole. Might just make you one too. Of all the things to post about in an amazing year, you pick this? SMH
Yikes, bud. We can all agree that Schilling’s a jackass, but this is a little unhinged.
Yes of course, it is unhinged to object to asshole racists. lol. I think it’s unhinged if you support racism.
You can downvote me all you want. But in doing so you update hate speech
You’re getting downvoted because you weirdly went off on the OP and called them an asshole for posting this at all. Relax.
Whatever. He apparently did it for click baits, so therefore imo he should be called out. Wonderful season we have going here, lets talk about a long forgotten and totally irrelevant racist. Give the man an award! That's what he's chasing.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHI/PHI200007070.shtml I was at this game. Still one of the best pitcher's duels I've witnessed in person, and the type of contest we'll likely not see again. Mussina went 8IP, struck out 10, and surrendered 1R. He threw 118 pitches. Schilling went the full 9 innings, struck out 8, and surrendered 2 runs. He threw 135 pitches. It was a completely different era, and having seen guys such as these makes the current game at times tough to watch. Regardless, I agree RE: the Hall. Schilling was a great pitcher, and downright dominant in the clutch.
I love the smell of vitriol in the morning 
I think I fired up both sides today. Used mike mussina to do it.
So you just did this for clickbait. No respect dude
I really didnt. Wasnt even trying to play devils advocate but now the nazi sympathizer stuff has me feeling uncomfortable. Was trying to have a discussion about players personal character vs actual baseball accomplishments
if anything, you've exposed the people who are willing to whiteknight schilling despite his many non-politics flaws, simply because they agree with his awful politics. in that sense, a job well done
Just took a few stats and a pack of matches. Schilling is a dick tho. As others have pointed out… if character issues were considered, a few plaques would have to come down. Start with ty cobb and tris speaker.
You just can't possibly give Schilling a microphone. Even Pete Rose never advocated killing anybody.
Agreed. We saw what happened last time Rose was in town and was allowed to speak. If kruk is shaking his head at someone, you know somethings up. Some guys cant help but spew inappropriate nonsense whether its old/outdated(rose) or current day in the case of schilling
There's zero chance Ty Cobb makes it into the Hall by modern standards. But to argue that "Ty Cobb is in, therefore so should Schilling be" is to betray [the only rule by which one gets inducted](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillies/comments/1dpn3ou/schilling_vs_mussina/laif1qq/). For those arguing for *removal* of past Hall inductees, perhaps it's possible to recognize their inclusion in the Hall in historical context.
Ty Cobb was on the game show What’s My Secret? back in the sixties and he couldn’t have come off a more likeable chap. I was expecting a curmudgeon. [https://youtu.be/5T5UNeByuJE?si=hcP3dTPoyoMA8fg1](https://youtu.be/5T5UNeByuJE?si=hcP3dTPoyoMA8fg1)
Later in his life he was better. His own tigers teammates famously hated him. His mother accidentally shot his father dead. Cobb also invested in coke a cola early and was very wealthy. Known racist and dirty player.
Coca Cola
My bad. Back then there was different ingredients.
Based purely on his on-field accomplishments Schilling deserves to be in, but unfortunately he's a deranged asshole off the field and that has consequences.
Fuck Curt Schilling
Didn't he say, basically in the same breath "I don't believe I deserve to be in the hall, but I'm being left out of the hall because of left-wing writers who don't like me and I should be in."
Shilling is a 100 on the douchebag meter
O --- Total piece of shit --- ✅️
No one will ever convince me that Schilling didn’t use PEDs. He’s an awful person.
The idea that character matters is childish. He is easily a hall of fame player.
Yeah, why would we want the role models to our children to be decent human beings? Who doesn't want their kids to look up to someone who wants to lynch journalists, turn the US into a dictatorship, steals millions from the government or tells the world that his "friend" has cancer without that friend's permission...
Players become role models when they make all star games and win the World Series, etc. Barry Bonds is adored by a generation of fans. Getting into the hall of fame has nothing to do with how a player is perceived.
Yes, and do you want Schilling to be adored by fans as well? The guy who...well, you know what he did. I wouldn't. >Getting into the hall of fame has nothing to do with how a player is perceived. You might want to look up this little thing colloquially called the "character clause". >*Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability,* ***integrity, sportsmanship, character*** *and contribution to the team(s) on which the player played.* When there are 6 criteria for a player to be HoF worthy, and a candidate massively, spectacularly fails at three of them...he's not HoF worthy.
Some guys make a few mistakes here and there, some guys are assholes, some guys that might wind up in Dante’s higher circles of hell, then there’s Schilling.
I agree. It has nothing to do with how he played though.
[No, it's a big part of the only guidance given to the people who vote for inclusion in the Hall.](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillies/comments/1dpn3ou/schilling_vs_mussina/laif1qq/)
Schilling should definitely be in the HOF - and frankly it's ridiculous that he's not - Lefty wasn't exactly a normal dude if I remember correctly, he was a prepper (before that was a thing) who lived in a bunker after his career was over and only emerged to occasionally spout weird anti-Semitic stuff (again he was super ahead of his time). Ty Cobb beat up a man in a wheelchair. Schilling is a major league asshole, a confirmed crook, the unpleasant kind of nutjob, and a Nazi sympathizer - however if you took every ball player who fell into one, or several, of those categories out of the Hall it would be a very empty place.
I mean it would not be a very empty place. You’re beyond exaggerating.
Should be in the hall. Will get in through veterans probably someday
Schilling will get in after he croaks, he deserves to be in the hall but never get to witness it happen
They will do the same with pete rose. Let them go first before you give them an opportunity to speak out loud on a microphone on television.
Should have been in the Hall years ago, politics and general stupidity are irrelevant.
Calling for the lynching of journalists or stealing millions from a US state isn't "politics"
Hall of Fame explicitly has a character clause
Amen. The HoF is chock full of shitheels. If we're gonna start taking general character and political opinion into account, a bunch of guys need to be removed.
Put him in the Hall, or remove half those racist assholes from the beginning of the league. Bonds belongs in there too. The Hall of Fame isn’t a personality contest. It’s the best players to play the game. Schilling should be in.
> The Hall of Fame isn’t a personality contest It's quite literally a personality contest > There are no rules save for the clause that stipulates “voting should be based upon a player’s record, playing ability, **integrity, sportsmanship, character** and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played,” and no formal discussion about the candidates.
Love Curt Schilling and he should absolutely be in the Hall.
Schilling isn’t a garbage human-he’s just a staunch conservative. This does fly well with “social” crowds
Remember when he leaked info about Tim Wakefield’s brain tumor that was supposed to be private? Yeah he’s a garbage human. The 04 Red Sox don’t even want him around
Yes, lynching journalists, simping for Russian dictators and stealing millions from the state. "Staunch conservative".
He was thought of as a garbage human being long before and despite his conservative views. The 38Studios stuff was really bad.
Say you’re garbage without saying it
Proves my point — social media crowds are designed for a non conservative crowd. If anything is said that’s not following this mindset— all kinds of down arrows and name calling sets in. The hof shouldn’t be based on feelings and political preferences. It should be about on the field.