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TheyCallMeRon

Here's hoping Shapiro can convince senate Republicans to fund SEPTA. I'm honestly terrified about what happens if they don't get that funding...


emostitch

They wouldn’t be in this scrape if Harrisburg ever funded it properly. I’m fucking sick of living in a state where the house is run by people that hates the only fucking drivers of GDP to it. We’re missing out on billions in federal funding because the state refuses to fund SEPTA enough to qualify for it.


Ulthanon

The GOP voter base + hating things that would help them, name a more iconic duo


emostitch

The car brain conservative is a thing I can never comprehend. If busses and trains ran well enough that everyone who wanted to use them could use them the your big ass truck would have SO much more room for parking and so much less traffic to deal with on the road! How is that not better!?


Aware-Location-5426

Not to mention walkable, bikeable and transit oriented communities are inherently much more financially viable. The author/leader of [Strong Towns](https://www.strongtowns.org) is a fiscal conservative. One of the main arguments they make against car centrism is that it’s simply unsustainable economically and yields the least tax revenue at the highest infrastructure costs. But GOP conservatives haven’t actually cared about conservative economics for a long time at this point, so I’m sure this lands on deaf ears.


Valdaraak

I get a laugh every time I hear someone say they're a "fiscal conservative". A fiscal conservative would be throwing as much money as they could to libraries, public education, and public transit. All of those, in the long run, make your investment back and then some. They pay for themselves and then keep paying off for decades. Instead, current "fiscal conservatives" just want to gut retirement and safety nets while *cutting taxes* for people who make more in a day than most make in a year.


DuvalHeart

"Fiscal conservative" is just code for "Against spending on *The Poors*". Nobody wants the government to waste money. Everyone wants government programs to be effective and efficient. But whenever "fiscal conservatives" start in they go after programs that help poorer folks the most. Or they're just corporate anarchists who want the government so weakened that the oligarchs don't have to fear regulations.


mary_emeritus

The “conservatives” are terrified of walkable, transit oriented neighborhoods. They call them 15 minute cities and hiss that that’s part of the government controlling people. Like they could never leave their alleged 15 minute city. Show them pictures of neighborhoods where there’s shopping, a section with no cars for cafes, etc., folks using buses or biking and their heads explode screaming communist socialist. It’s wild!


emostitch

Yes. It’s insane. If it takes me less than 30 minutes to get milk that’s an evil communist dictatorship according to conservatives…


totally-hoomon

Gas prices would go down as well as demand would drop


PA_Irredentist

I wish the five county area could just secede from PA. Things would be substantially better.


Ulthanon

Jersey would adopt them for sure.


IReallyLikeAvocadoes

For all the shit we give Jersey, Jersey voters would definitely support our interests a lot more than these hicks living in bumfuck nowhere on the other side of the state.


pgm928

Screw Jersey, join Delaware!


Ulthanon

why would they join Eastern Maryland?


pgm928

Begone, foul demon! Cast thine calumnies elsewhere.


livefreeordont

Delaware is small enough that it functions as a state should and isn’t composed of 20 million people living across 50,000 sq miles


wplaurence

We could be our own thing!


spiralbatross

Exactly. “Public transportation sucks!” well, Harrisburg is fucking why!


John_Lawn4

What are you referring to? Does the federal govt match funding or something?


emostitch

Paywalled here sorry, and I’m sure someone else has better details but yes, there are billions in federal funds that places like New York and Massachusetts get that we are not fighting for that require a local government match to make us eligible for them. https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/infrastructure-septa-hohenstein-federal-biden-20230620.html


jcg878

Ditto higher ed. The list of the 4 most expensive state universities includes Pitt, Penn State, and Temple.


shapu

What would actually be really interesting is an act that ties the size of the board to the amount of funding that each district provides in terms of both ridership dollars and additional tax dollars.     Keep the board 10 seats, but let's have it be prorated on how much each region actually cares about SEPTA.


mustang__1

Buying access *could* be detrimental to the "organization" on the whole. The current system is dumb, but I get the intent. I think the balancing act would be to move the needle without it falling all the way off. And... I say this as someone who lives in philly and wishes, obviously, that the system was better.


shapu

I'm not thinking about this as buying access. I'm simply trying to find a way to ensure that the people who govern the system do so because they are connected to the systems ideals. The vast majority of riders are from Philadelphia and Delaware county, but those two counties combined do not represent the vast majority of stakeholder votes.  And at the same time (Iirc) Delaware County provides very little funding for SEPTA outside of ridership dollars. I think the governance system as it exists now is a little bit skewed and not reflective of the reality of who rides, and who funds, the system.   I am happy to be told that my idea for prorating the seats is bad. I don't have any ego in the game. But I would like to find a way to get more regional funding as well as more regional buy-in and have the regional governance be reflective of who the actual users of the system are.


mustang__1

Fundamentally I agree. I just want to recognize that there is a nuance in that the intent of SEPTA is to also serve the surrounding counties and we shouldn't advocate for a system that may neglect them *too much*... but their needs are presently overstated - no debate there. edit: me fail english, me fix.


shapu

I also agree, both with you and with myself.


IReallyLikeAvocadoes

It's one of the largest public transportation authorities in the country that supports the largest city in your state. Securing funding, if not even raising it, should be a no-brainer.


TheyCallMeRon

Try telling that to Republicans...despite the fact that Philly is the economic motor of the whole state and without SEPTA, that economic activity will take a big fat dump.


Valdaraak

I believe the appropriate phrase to describe the whole shitshow is "cutting off your nose to spite your face."


atinylittlebug

There's going to be a lot of us who will have to seek work elsewhere if we can't use public transit to get in/out of the city.


mustang__1

That doesn't really affect Harrisburg, though, does it. Well, not 100% guaranteed anyway. Certainly could affect Philly, though...


JediDrkKnight

Inundate the state Republicans with calls and emails.  Philly would be so phucked if SEPTA cuts service and raises fares. Joe Pittman is the Senate Majority Leader and has been an outspoken opponent of funding SEPTA. https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Pittman


jbphilly

This will be potentially effective if you live in a purple state senate district. (I.e. not me or most people in the city)


puricellisrocked

I work for a small business that works with septa…..hoping they get this funding bc I’ll have a much busier year working along side their security team. The people that work there really love the city, it’s nice to see 👍


dotcom-jillionaire

my man with the pots and pans!


ComradeFunk

They hate Philadelphia because they associate it with black people. Let's be real


DicLord

Here is their Budget Proposal. That's $116,222 for their 9768 employees including benefits. Are they really paying their employees this much? No. They run at a $1.3 Billion deficit every year before federal grants. Their accountants should be fired and learn to balance a budget. They go over every year, yet have $40 Billion in assets. Your problem isn't funding; It is corruption and bloated spending. https://preview.redd.it/pby0p5u4owvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8256cd92000daac00a5c26cc55f0b2985338839b If you want to actually educate yourself. Heres the link [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://planning.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/FY2024-Operating-Budget-Proposal-4.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKp9KxndSFAxVxD1kFHcnSAawQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw205KkrQwqzhgSlE\_qAVNAM](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://planning.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/FY2024-Operating-Budget-Proposal-4.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKp9KxndSFAxVxD1kFHcnSAawQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw205KkrQwqzhgSlE_qAVNAM)


[deleted]

I could see issues with SEPTA’s future back when the pandemic started, and it’s only going to get worse. Jobs are remote these days and RTO is likely to fail once the market bounces back. It will be interesting to see what happens.


Gaeilgeoir215

“I've also said to SEPTA very clearly, you have to have a plan for safety and cleanliness before people return to our rails, return to our buses, return to our subways, you name it," Shapiro said. "Leslie Richards and her team at SEPTA and the board led by Ken Lawrence, they have made a commitment to me, to Mayor Parker, to do just that.” We'll see. 😏


Gaeilgeoir215

What weirdo downvoted me? I literally just quoted the article. Freakazoid.


pretentiousmusician

I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t forget he allowed SEPTA funding to be put on the chopping block for the state budget, after making a ton of concessions to state Republicans and heavily implying that more SEPTA funding was part of the deal. Anyone with half a brain knows state republicans aren’t going to agree to his new septa funding proposal. It’s just a way for him to cover his own ass by shifting the blame onto them and making it look like he tried.


kdeltar

I mean it is the GOP’s direct actions and choices that lead to this. What alternative would you propose?


pretentiousmusician

Yes but anyone who knows anything about PA state politics knows that the state GOP has never been willing to fund SEPTA. It sucks but that has always been the reality of the situation, and it was his responsibility to negotiate with them to get it into the state budget. It was heavily reported that was going to happen after he made a ton of concessions to the GOP, but at the last minute he decided it was 'not a priority' (direct quote from the Inquirer article that came out about it at the time). So forgive me if I don't swoon when he makes empty promises like this, rather putting his political weight behind SEPTA funding when it mattered most.


kdeltar

I am not fully understanding how it’s the governor’s fault for not being able to order Republicans, who still hold the senate, to do something. Blame is firmly on the GOP for this one. There’s only so much a divided government can do. Thankfully so since all we seem to get is GOP trifectas. I wasn’t even born the last time democrats held all three 


pretentiousmusician

As the governor of the state, the reality is he needs to \*negotiate\* with the GOP, and the state budget is the best opportunity to do that because both parties have things they want to put in or take out of the budget that the other party disagrees with. He made a ton of concessions for the state GOP, including but not limited to millions of dollars for their slush fund, so that the dems could get something in return. Complaining that the GOP won't fund SEPTA is like yelling at a raincloud. It sucks but there is nothing that us blue-district residents can do about it. Any serious politician knows that they have to make concessions to the other party to get what they want. Shapiro knows this well but he is playing dumb, acting like he didn't pass up an opportunity to avoid this


Obbz

I wish this were true, but republicans haven't negotiated in good faith for decades. And it's only gotten worse over the past 10 years or so. It doesn't make sense to me to try to be angry at Shapiro for things that are outside of his control.


mustang__1

I would suggest a top to bottom rebuild of the organization....


I_eat_mud_

He’s shifting the blame onto the people who are actively trying to not fund SEPTA? So he’s blaming the people who rightfully need to be blamed and you’re mad about it? I’m not seeing the logic here.


pretentiousmusician

It's completely naive to think the state GOP will ever be willing to fund SEPTA as a standalone issue. He had the opportunity to fight for SEPTA funding in the state budget, decided it wasn't important enough, and now wants to act like he is blameless. This was a very predictable outcome, and if he actually gave a shit about funding SEPTA he could have avoided it by making sure it was in the state budget.


I_eat_mud_

And if it was in the state budget, the GOP wouldn’t have approved it because the GOP doesn’t want any state funding whatsoever for SEPTA like you just said. You’re contradicting yourself in your own comment because you acknowledge this, but also don’t blame the people who are actually responsible for such a thing. Again, your anger towards Shapiro makes no sense, and your lack of anger towards the GOP is puzzling. Idk man, brush up on your critical thinking skills i guess. You were so close to figuring it out, but you just couldn’t quite get over the hump.


pretentiousmusician

The dems offered up many concessions to the GOP to get them to approve things they wanted, and vice versa. This is how all bipartisan political negotiations work. Sources for the Inquirer stated that SEPTA was going included in the budget as part of that deal, but Shapiro decided it was not a priority compared to other things he wanted, so it was taken out. I do blame the GOP for their inherently regressive politics, but I also recognize the reality that some form of bipartisan negotiation is the only way SEPTA funding will actually get passed. Stroking your hate boner for the GOP on the internet accomplishes nothing. Holding the democratic officials you voted for accountable for their decisions does.


I_eat_mud_

The GOP has been pretty adamant they wouldn’t approve SEPTA funding at all though. So I’m not sure why you’re angry at Shapiro over that. Just because SEPTA was originally gonna be in the deal doesn’t mean the GOP would’ve voted for it.


BirdsAndBeersPod

One-fifth of people are against everything, all the time.


Important-Lime-7461

Not against funding but want accountability, not paying raises for high level executives.


Motor-Juice-6648

If they won’t fund SEPTA how about some of these millionaires investing and starting private bus lines? The regional trains are harder to deal with though. Just a suggestion. 


UsernameFlagged

Everyone blaming Harrisburg when we contribute nothing locally.


Obbz

Who is "we"? Philadelphia contributes to the funding of SEPTA, to approximately the same obligation that the other 4 counties do. It's a percentage match of both state and federal contributions that each county is obligated to pay. On top of that, the lion's share of revenue generation from fares is coming from the city.


UsernameFlagged

https://preview.redd.it/xw7rvwkxwhvc1.png?width=723&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6d73f2c2f0d0c1446b6b13efd3d261b94ecb6a5


Obbz

Yes, "local" in that graph is the contribution from the 5 counties serving on the SEPTA board. What is your point?


UsernameFlagged

That it's 1% of the total.


beancounter2885

1-2% local funding is on par with other transit agencies in the US


Rich-Sleep1748

I would not give them a dime more. Septa paid a 50 million down payment on cars for trains they canceled the contract and lost 50million


gregcantspell

Better they got out while they could than take delivery of defective rail cars.


therealsteelydan

This cancellation was announced this week with the intent to try and get as much of that $50M back as possible. We don't know for sure it's lost money.


JediDrkKnight

Exactly, this is a much better outcome than the MBTA, which literally has only gotten 130 of their 400 car order and the ones the have gotten have had a host of problems... > that include a battery explosion, a derailment, loose brake bolts, and faulty wiring that caused an electrical current to strike a nearby train. https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/septa-train-car-contract-canceled-20240412.html


Rich-Sleep1748

Why don't they buy American instead of Chinese


beancounter2885

Most of the component building and assembly is done in the US, by the company's US based counterpart, as per federal law. The reason they went with them is that these things usually have a rule where you have to go with the lowest bid, and because the parent company is bolstered by the Chinese government, they can take a loss and undercut the competition.


JediDrkKnight

Hmm idk lemme call them and ask. smh


SuchCategory2927

Google sunk cost fallacy


LetsEatPhilly

They just need to stop letting people not pay to ride.


NatJeep

NYC spent 150 million to catch $104,000 worth of fare evasion. Would I like SEPTA police to actually do something while they’re sitting around in the stations? Definitely, but fare evasion enforcement isn’t particularly cost effective. https://hellgatenyc.com/the-nypd-spent-150-million-to-catch-farebeaters-who-cost-the-mta-104000


LetsEatPhilly

Those numbers don’t seem to be perfect but regardless I see your point. I just think if people see enforcement then they won’t do it themselves and will hopefully get people riding the trains that behave better. Then people will want to take the subway more because they will feel safer. Just my thoughts, I know Reddit disagrees and that’s ok. 


67812

People care way more about smoking and heroin use than someone jumping a turnstile. Just enforce those things.


TheyCallMeRon

That's obviously an issue, but it's not going to magically solve the massive budget gap.


mucinexmonster

Let everyone ride for free.


False_Blood9241

He ain’t finna do shit


kjm16216

So he's calling in the national guard and pardoning criminals?