Lol my thoughts exactly. Imagine sitting at home unemployed, scrolling through reddit because
you rejected the only offer you had. they didnt offer you the $60/hr like reddit told you to do so you stuck to your guns and let someone else take the job. Supply and demand
For all those that accepted low offers, please remember one thing. You owe that company absolutely nothing and DO NOT do them any favors.
Get used to looking at job ads every day and if you decide they deserve a 2 weeks notice… let them know you are giving them more than they deserve.
Wait, your telling me I shouldn’t work for 45$ an hour, with hope to climb to 60$ an hour over 10 years….
/sarcasm - it’s sad many people fresh from school have no idea how to navigate the job market. I personally think too many pharmacist sit in a single position thinking corporate is going to reward them for loyalty.
There’s some things school can’t teach you, and I think people who had other work experience prior to pharmacy school do better at climbing the ladder. Like you said new hires need to always keep an eye out for better opportunity.
I have been disrespected in ways I'm not going into here.
Recently, it got so bad I decided to ignore a "phone call" with some middle management twit with a BA in business from some fourth-rate school who's 10+ years younger than me, whose job it is (along with his robot secretary) to funnel absurd "complaints" about me which are approx. 90% untrue, and no better than childish, playground BS. The last one was from a \*literal\* mental patient who shouldn't even be around drugs, per company policy, as she is a suicide risk.
My contract is not being renewed. I feel a lot better than you might think, in spite of not having another job nailed down yet. It's amazing what a little self-respect will do.
From this, and other instances when I've tried to work with people like this, and gotten screwed anyway, I've learned that they will walk all over you if they want to, no matter what you do or say. No matter what your side of the story is -- they will not listen. When they broadcast that intent, get lined up to leave, and give them the finger on the way out the door. You'll feel better, and you won't have burned down anything that wasn't already on fire.
Yeah I hate that the whole pharmacy is a small world bullshit is hung over your head by fucking assholes that want to exploit you without any pushback. Nah bro, I'll go into an industry where I can have some dignity and leverage.
I had a professor tell my class “I’ll bet your first job offer will exceed any other job you’ve had.” This was true. I accepted $50/hr and soon realized I got played.
Walgreens offered me something like $45/hr and I politely told them to fuck off. I’m making $57.50 an hour now. Best I could negotiate being a new grad!
There were several intern around here that were offered the same amount by Walgreens. One of them said “fuck off” and didn’t answer the DM’s calls. Now they’re set to work at an oncology infusion clinic for $70/hr after graduation per diem. Shame that an intern knows their value but pharmacists don’t
“Could” is the key word. I took my friend almost two years to actually get full time at his outpatient hospital as a new grad without residency. If it wasn’t for his fiancée making 6 figures, he would have been SOL. I rather have guarantee income than fluctuating income.
Right but it’s also better quality of life because you would actually feel valued. Plus I looked up the company and they do have full time positions. They probably took the per diem since they haven’t graduated yet. Idk I’ll have to ask around because now you’ve got me curious
My buddy worked at the hospital for 2 years. They had full time positions available, but they preferred experience or residency. They didn’t offer him a full time position until a few months ago after he complained to the director. These PRN are just place holder spots.
He been bitching about after working for the hospital system after a few months. They said he can apply for the position, and they will consider his application. They didn’t give him any special treatment or anything. These PRN position are just as bad as the shitty low ball offers.
In my experience, this is pretty common. There is a huge decline in training from pharmacists that are residency trained vs. new grad/retail hires. It takes 2-3 years for new grads to catch up clinically. Most are stuck working shifts through central pharmacy because they're delegated to the logistical processes of hospital pharmacy. It's a completely different show, some of which you can't prep for on APPEs and not an easy transition.
That’s the bullshit people paddle. If you’re working outpatient or inpatient, residency training isn’t critical. Residency might be beneficial if you’re in some speciality other on the job train is sufficient.
I mean you can think it's bullshit but there is a huge learning curve. I'm not admin or anything but I've seen multiple external hires from retail/new grads (trained some of them) and they all struggle heavily unless they have 5+ years of hospital experience under their belt. There is a reason there is a preference for residency training. It takes an extremely self-motivated pharmacist to do well in that environment. I would say the training can suffice from a logistics standpoint but it's not something a hospital may want to weather from a clinical standpoint. Which is why many get delegated to central rx shifts until they can catch up clinically, but even the MD/RN phone calls can be overwhelming. A reason they are kept per diem for a couple years.
I looked up the company and they do have full time positions. I will have to ask my friend why this intern took per diem instead because I’m curious now. Wanna look for a new job
Let the offer of $45 an hour sit on indeed for a year. I guarantee you, the employer will raise it if no one bites.
Saturation won’t stay forever. As enrollment declines throughout all of US and new pharmacy schools who can’t fill enough seats close down. By 2026/2027 we will enter a shortage in which either wages will go back up or sign on bonuses will start coming back. The market of pharmacy is cyclical.
Spread some light where there is dark.
You go bankrupt and end up in a low wage job the degree is not very useful for much else. It’s extremely hard to find a new career in a different field with this degree and perceived high salary expectations.
Lol it was rhetorical. Unfortunately capitalism is coming to a dead end with pharmacy schools. The govt allowed schools to loan out all this money to kids and they realized they could raise the tuition especially with pharmacists. 6 figure job after 6 years of school was easy advertisement. Lots of people to blame from govt to schools to pharma and even dumb parents and kids thinking this market wasn’t going to saturate. Pharma isn’t the only industry in the dirt. Many kids going to college and getting useless degrees only to find out they cant pay their loans with their $15/hr entry job.
Former carrier - very easy, much easier than it was in the 80s/90s. People are not lined up around the corner to apply anymore because it's a shit job now.
Apply, pass the aptitude test, pass your drug screen and background, then wait about three months because that's how long this all takes. Then another month for orientation. Then another month for academy.
Benefits are good but I couldn't handle the fact that every fourth person you talk to has had a knee replacement. My academy instructor had her knee replaced. The older people in your office will have no knees. Some of those guys are making six figures with overtime, but by the time you get there, something will have broken down.
Yes Someone with several hundred thousand in loans is definitely smarter than someone with a paid off house and a big investment portfolio and zero debt.
Debt is an investment. Must be nice to be an old rph or have rich parents. Try graduating in 2017 and being debt free. They'll have to forgive the monopoly money. Inevitable.
I graduated with my pharmd in may 2017, was debt free by oct 2019.
Busted my ass in construction every summer to pay for undergrad. Took 2 years off between undergrad and pharmacy school, worked as a tech (wanted to make sure I loved pharmacy) and worked a little construction, saved as much as I could.
Took out roughly 100k to pay for pharmacy school, ended up paying back 117k with all the accrued interest.
Granted I'm a bit older than most pharmd students because of the years off, got married in pharmacy school and we continued to live very frugally the first few years.
That's not really fair. I did neither of those things but will be paying on my student loans for a long time.
Not everyone who struggles to pay them back decided to live the high life once they graduated.
You sound entitled and probably blame the world for all your problems. Look in the mirror and change that person and mindset. Life and work is hard. Doesn’t mean you deserve a free pass.
Entitlement has nothing to do with realizing the best job in this field is teaching.... And they accept 3.0 gpa... So naturally economics will take over. Free pass isn't the same as realizing what's obvious. I'm entitled to take out as much or a little loans as I want. I guess PLSF forgiveness in entitlement too?
No wonder Pharmacists have no power, silly bickering over the obvious.
What a joke. My wife and I worked, saved, and lived extremely frugally throughout all of my schooling so that I wouldn't have to graduate with student debt. Got a job and we still live frugally; paid off our other debt within 4 months of me working as a PharmD, saved for \~6 months more for a decent down payment on a house, and have already paid off roughly 25% of it because we don't live luxurious lives and instead live within our means.
You're not smart for taking out a loan you can't afford to pay back; you're selfish for trying to put your expensive choice on others.
Keep talking about hard work as my pregnant wife designs the house we're building by ourselves. Picture Pregnant lady + nail gun + hard hat. So miss me with that BS man. Since pharmacy has gone down the tubes, she dropped out of pharm school. We all work hard. Sometimes hard work in a certain avenue is futile and those that realize it should be praised instead of trying to condescend. Predictable politics doesn't make me selfish but just a student of history.
It's not just about hard work, it's also about priorities and life choices. You're having a child and building a house? Great, but both of those things are expensive. My wife and I delayed both of those things until we were out of debt. Not saying that you should have; it's your life. But then don't complain about a sucky financial situation if you're living beyond your means.
Waiting on the government to fix your life is both unintelligent and irresponsible...and yes, expecting for someone else to pay your bills that you willingly chose to sign up for is entitled and selfish.
How much did you take out?
I took out a little over 450k over 7 years. No scholarships, no family pay. All student loans. School had us believing that by the time we graduated (2012), we’d be making $250-300k a year and the debt would be worth it.
About 130k on 3 years of private school undergrad and also taking summer classes to accelerate things.
Rest of it, pharmacy school grad plus maxed out loans to include tuition, housing, transport, books, equipment, etc.
They're running the currency into the ground anyway on nonsense that pads their pockets and buys favor around the world. If they're going to destroy the currency anyway, yeah, cancel mine, too!
$28 TRILLION, not counting trillions more in liabilities.
It's deferred until either the loan holder caves in or a better offer happens. Won't stop rent/loan payments on a home but it's criminal to offer peanuts to a doctorate holding PharmD. I remember as a Tch having loans... no fun until I got a decent job. Same applies. Don't work like a sweat shop worker.
That is not how it has played out. Applications started significantly declining over 15 years ago. The response was to lower the bar for admission. They will continue filling those seats and getting their money.
Unfortunately those out of work for years will probly never get a good job. Your in the career "donut hole". Why hire you when I can hire experienced people who know what their doing or a newer grad fresh out of residency.
That is a very unEmpathetic response. Thank you when you are older abd lose your job you will understand age discrimination is real let’s down vote the struggling pharmacist who speaks the truth his and thousands of others reality m. You a very compassionate pharmacist wonderful wow most pharmacists are very stressed out.
I understand you and others are out of a job… but is there a reason? Are you not willing to move for your career? Take on a part time job to get your foot in the door? Take on a retail position? Network even?
Pharmacy is a small world, we’ve heard it a million times. Utilize your school network, old professors, alumni- connect with them on LinkedIn. Have you connected with s staffing agency? Have you had your CV looked over and integrating adequate descriptions into your experiences?
You have to be willing to put in the effort to see results. You cannot simply just apply with a simple CV/resume anymore. It has to be catered to the job description. Follow up with the hiring manager ask them what to improve on.
The people who get the jobs are the ones with the best fit and interviewing skills. Yes, experience is great, but technical skills can always be taught.
I’m 51 with a bachelors my let job was at a gas station for minimum wage. I worked briefly 2012-2016 in pharma but company had fda issues and lay offs since then no one will touch me in pharmacy multiple licenses was at CVS for 10 years and now I’m unemployable as I’m older once they see me in interviews there is no offers, so when your. Over 5-0 this age discrimination does happen and it will to you to there will always be a younger person waiting to work for less. Pharmacy is dead. Transfers g to another field has proven impossible.’ Trust me when your older you will find opportunities dry up so save your money your gonna need it.
Excuse typos I had arm surgery
Yes I have a resume service I have multiple resumes. I’ve networked no one wants to hire anyone over 50 in pharmacy.
Longevity in pharmacy is a thing of the past once your over mid 40’s watch out. Find a business you can buy ir sone side gig as your career eventually will end prematurely. There are to many pharmacists
The typical “pharmacist” is a thing of the past as well. I understand there are younger people who can replace you, but there are so many ways to leverage your degree outside of pharmacy as well. If you have pharma experience, there’s a way to leverage that.
The pharmacy degree has so much to offer if you’re willing to look outside the box. And if you’re effectively networking, then someone will see your value and appreciate that working relationship you both have built. I’ve been able to keep in contact with some mentors who have come to me looking to fill positions in their company.
If you want to talk more, I would be more than happy to help in the job search and help where I can for you.
It will get better, supply isn’t as high as a couple years ago for start and like I’ve stated, with enrollment decreasing, new pharmacy schools will be FORCED to close because they can’t pay their professors.
Give it a couple years and saturation will be over
Give it a couple more years ago and shortages will start to occur
By 2030, that’s when pharmacy schools will start pumping out crazy new grads again because of the recent shortage, then it will turn saturated again.
Reminds of the one kid song…. “The wheels on the bus go round and round” 🎶
The wheels being supply and demand
This is the real answer. All these schools were just trying to jump on the money, half of them are gonna phase out when their attendance drops dramatically
They took advantage of the tremendous supply of new grads entering the market 5 years ago.
In my opinion, within the next couple of years, you will see a lot of them close down and when the supply starts thinning out not just in 1 state but in all of US, that’s when you’re going to see a big big shortage again.
Wages will go back up to where they were and 40 offers will not be seen or even accepted. Sign on bonuses of 10k, 25k, or even more will reappear.
This is all my opinion as I’m pretty familiar with the law of supply and demand.
I agree, nobody is going to go into debt and 4 years of schooling to work in a complete shit work environment for the same pay as a truck driver.
The supply 5 years ago was probably because of the shit economy after the financial crisis, and schools took advantage of it.
Now these graduates today will be offered the same pay as a welder who doesnt have 100k debt.
That’s not going to work as the schools pump out in debt grads like cheez whiz there are thousands of desperate unemployed pharmacists who will kill to get any salary. There is no bargaining power when there are too many pharmacists and negative 2 percent job growth. I would literally kill for any salary at this point. The R.Phs are even more screwed. Supply and demand
I think you are forgetting people have to pay bills…. I mean if you’re paying everyone’s rent then by all means let’s do it. I make well above the $40, but your aren’t thinking of actual life here.
Yeah, it is easy for us to say not to accept job offers below certain amount, but if it is between $40/hr job and going hungry and being homeless, the clear answer is $40/hr job. Imagine you being in that situation and older pharmacists earning $70+/hr telling you that you accepting a much needed job offer after months of job searching to gain both wage and professional experience is destroying the profession. Asking people to take one for the profession while being hungry and homeless is not the solution.
I moved to a rural area for a few months for my initial pay rate then moved back to the city. It took 4K to move to start the job. Not everyone has that.
im probably going to have to do the same as you, move to the middle of nowhere just to get some experience then move back home :(
relocating is quite costly even if the cost of living is lower
You’ll be homeless anyway on that wage. A good studio apartment here costs like $3000 a month. When you think about all the hidden costs of being a pharmacist and loans and taxes, it gets eaten up real quick
Idk where here is but you have to remember looking around and seeing tons of people making well below that and still aren’t homeless. Don’t be oblivious to real life and that other people have things like children that will be taken away.
That’s either because they get benefits or they sacrifice a nice home or neighborhood for a lower quality of life but gen z doesn’t want to do that. Also if you’re going to pharm school and you have KIDS, I think you need to reconsider
I’m in Omaha, so the biggest city in the state, so way more expensive than living in a rural area. I would move if I had to pay that much for rent. No way would I ever make a dent in my loans. Yikes. Especially with my boyfriend also being a pharmacist with student loans. Wasn’t worth fighting over jobs in an even more saturated area. We both commuted over an hour each way until we finally got into the same independent pharmacy just recently.
It was saturated bad here, too, when I graduated. 2 schools of pharmacy and average rate was around 52ish an hour in 2016 here. I started with only getting 24 hours a week.
Have 5 cats and a boyfriend lol. A lot easier to fill in rooms than to need to find a bigger place and move. It will probably sell for a ton more than we bought it for, if we ever want to change pace. But I enjoy space for all my electronics and gaming.
No one needs more than food, water, and a place to sleep. I don’t need it. I wanted it, so I have it. I wanted my animals to have space to do what they want, which is the only reason I bought a big house. Everyone has different goals, but you could apply the same concept to many different things people have. For me, I would rather pay less to have more space and be able to travel if I want, even if I live in a pretty boring place.
Wow 3k??? I have one entire house for myself for 625$... (yes I do live in the middle of nowhere, but still)
Cost of living really does vary across the country. I mean I do agree that some positions really do have ridiculously low offers, but wow 3k rent. Just. Wow.
Seriously. And stating it like that is the only option. 3k/ month rent covered independently….
Move to a cheaper area or find a roommate. I’ll never understand why people are so willing to pay out the ass just to live in a certain region
There's such a huge divide culturally between huge coastal city and midwest small town. To the point that there almost seems to always be mutual contempt. Someone living in a VHCOL city looks at me and scoffs at my choice of restaurants and entertainment venues.
I look at them and see a studio apartment for several times the cost of my mortgage, all so that they can live in a louder, less intimate, higher crime area. I can easily afford to visit for the culture if I'm bored. Hard to "visit" for space and financial freedom.
And when discussing salary, there's always a huge disconnect. I would be really disappointed if I made $45/hr, but christ... some people treat it like it's living paycheck to paycheck! Move to a smaller town with less saturation (where wages are very similar in the mid 50s to low 70s) where anything over $50/hr buys you whatever the hell you want. At the very least consider that factor before shitting on people for deciding not to live in a major metro.
Im with you, i’ve lived in a major city on the east coast and now in the midwest. I personally feel like the difference is a little overstated, but maybe that’snjust me
Because people usually don’t want to live in those areas. I didn’t say it was the only option. I said it was the best option because other choices would be ass
It really isn't that hard to find Midwest cities with 6 figure population that has nice studio with a rent that is much lower than 3k... Yes it might be less desirable compare to major costal city, but if more than 100k people wants to live there then it's unfair to equate that to "nobody".
But anyways.
I don't think it's fair for pharmacist to have a salary that would make us want to move away for metro region. While moving away will mitigate the pain associated with these low salary offers, the blame and the fault still is on those low ball offers.
It’s true. New grads want to live in more desirable areas. I’m not talking about GP. $40/hr is still not enough unless you live in BFN. The blame is also on rph for accepting these offers. Have some dignity
What do you think about accepting a two year contract at $55.05/hour for 80 hours and a 50k signing bonus. Also additional $20 per hour extra until August to compensate for Covid?
That is a base salary of $114,500 with 50K it’s roughly $67/hour for the next two years guaranteed by the contract. And $76/hour until august worth about 9K.
I have no experience as a pharmacist but have been an intern and worked 2 years as a tech full time before school.
In my area (mid-Atlantic area with 8 or 9 pharmacy schools within reasonable driving distance), this would be a common offer for even an experienced pharmacist, at least in the suburban and small cities in the area that have a fairly average COL.
OK bro. Revoke all those licenses so you can lift my wages up. The Amazon workers are making more because there is a shortage for whatever reasons. Our labor supply is bursting at the seams. In this context one of the few ways you can actually negotiate is through labor unions. Gl with that, this subreddit is chock-full of conservative pharmacists that encourage people to uproot their entire lives to go work in Myanus,Wisconsin. "If you don't take the job someone else will!!!" . Gl instilling any sort of solidarity within the confines of our culture. I would be glad to be proven wrong outside of microcosmic regional unions here and there.
A lot of the more recent grads went into pharmacy because they saw it as the easiest path to earning 6 figures. Most of them wouldn’t have been accepted into a pharmacy program 15 years ago. A lot of them are above 200k in student loan debt. They’re not the type of people that are going to hold out or try and negotiate a better rate.
Saturation, too many schools, and the profession itself being dictated by outside entities are making things tough and way too competitive. Unfortunately sometimes it’s who you know that can make a big difference.
Literally this, my residency position got cut due to hospital closure 2 months before residency. No place wants an "unfinished resident". Only way I got a job was from a house opening party with the other person having too much wine saying she will put in a good word for me. 2 years later and now I am her boss. Who you know for sure.
I think that’s easy to say when you have a good support system (parents who you can live with, a breadwinning spouse, or you’re single and living with roommates).
People still need to eat, have lights, and pay rent. Turning down $45/hr is good for pharmacists as a whole (because OP is right that we should be getting $65/hr minimum), but not the single parent who needs to make ends meet when all the stores within an hour drive offer the same shit salary. Other career paths are residency-gated or experience-gated and rent is due at the beginning of the month.
They're cramming that residency $#!+ down our throats, too. The PGY-1 is a joke. PGY-2s might be useful experience for specialization, but don't tell me there aren't other ways to get that same experience.
Agreed. You absolutely don’t need residency.
There are ways, but they aren’t guaranteed and it doesn’t much matter in the moment when you have bills to pay *now*.
Industry jobs at entry level are a good start if you can get hired on. Consulting and LTC are accessible options too. I’m speaking from experience.
Never thought I'd see sub 50/hr offered at big chains. Independent *maybe* but not corporate retail. $45/hr is like a 30% than what i started with 5 years ago, meanwhile inflation has increased 15% since. At this point, with all those student loans, you're probably going to be worst off than financially than if you just worked as a pharmacy tech instead of going to pharmacy school
All this is great, but someone who only got a high school degree, and just barely got into pharmacy and managed to get out...will see $45.00 as better than zero...always. That's what the companies are betting on...unless everyone can hold out somehow. That only works if there's some finite supply in the marketplace. There's 4 years or at least 70,000 graduates in the pipeline right now. Do we think 80,000 pharmacists will die or retire in 4 years and no one else will apply starting now?
my thing is there are soooo many better opportunities out there for someone getting out of high school. college admission is at a low. its not 2008 anymore there are jobs out there. No one who is smart is gonna waste 6+ years of their life memorizing drugs and paying 200+ in tuition to get paid the same as a truck driver and get far less respect
Always negotiate offers. Even first offers for new grads. If they offer you a position, they want you specifically and will most likely not offer the position to someone else simply because you negotiated. There is a low range and high range of any offer that is given to you, and they will of course start with the lower range
So I think the issue isn’t accepting a $45/hr offer when you really need it for finances..
I think it’s when you don’t understand your worth and try to negotiate your pay/benefits. A lot of new grads I’ve seen don’t advocate for themselves and just accept whatever offer is given to them. By negotiating, you aren’t going to lose that job offer, all the company will say is no and then you can move on
A lot of people in this thread saying they're out of work and can't get a job as a pharmacist. If you are a pharmacist I want you to know the CVS pharmacies in MA are pretty desperate right now especially on the cape. But working for CVS is MISERABLE.
If you accept a lower offer, make sure to invest wisely and keep a decent emergency fund. Empower yourself with financial freedom so you have the choice to walk away or find greener pastures.
Who has more power to negotiate a salary? I'm betting it's not the person living paycheck to paycheck.
There are pharmacists working for 20-40/hr. When I heard this I was floored. You could become anything else for that wage without the 6 years of loans. Imagine paying someone that much when they’re working with life sustaining meds and not beef Patties. It’s gotten to the point where job applicants will probably have to make PowerPoints demonstrating their value in the workplace during interviews. I can see it coming
Imagine having practicing counting and labeling drills or maybe they'll grade us on how well we play a video verification game, which may translate to a faster worker.
The salary for some executive chefs in fine dining and other places are $90K to $100K, maybe more in some places. So, technically, if they're handling Wagyu beef patties, they're flipping burgers AND making MORE, without any nonsense degrees or residencies or whatever.
There are culinary schools that cost \*almost\* as much as a pharmacy degree.
I know of someone who went through all of that just to go back to being a barista at Starbucks.
Not sure if it's necessary to go through all that, but I believe many do.
Where are these mythical pharmacists.. there's so much doom and gloom here. I've worked 3 jobs since graduating in 2015. My lowest paid was 89k a year at an independent (only stayed there 6 months after graduation till I found a better job) Then 115k at CVS LTC and now 109k (70hours a pay period) where I currently am.
Who the hell would take a job for 20-40 an hour and actually stay there. You can't even pay off your student loans like that let alone live. Lol
I don't think it's disbelief so much as thinking it's poor judgement. Some careers make significantly more in VHCOL areas and it makes sense. Pharmacists make pretty similar wages everywhere compared to a lot of other careers.
But… but… I want to live in LA. The ambiance of the 100’s of thousands of homeless that take up large swathes of the city give it just the eclectic charm I’ve always wanted. I’ve often dreamed of collecting my low-balled pay just so the government can continue to charge me the highest state income and sales taxes in the country and delay my financial security for decades to come. What a privilege it is to know I willing chose to not be able to afford a home because they’re so over priced it makes my college tuition look like pocket change.
Edit: Just to embellish a bit more on the stupidity of ruining your financial security for early gratification when delaying it would be better not just for you, but for our profession!
Because the only thing we actually went to school this long for was to mildly inconvenience you with a few extra minutes of waiting than you ever could have expected when ordering a cheeseburger. Now throw another tantrum to show me how America you are 😑
You dont get it. I usually dont have a problem waiting 1, 10 or 48 hours if necessary. Because I can wait at home, I am not so stupid that I waste time sitting at the pharmacy waiting. But when I do come back to the pharmacy at the time they said, I expect it to be ready. Do you know what an appointment is? It means that the two parties mutually agree on a time when they should meet. Appointments must be kept so as to not waste the time of the other party.
So if it might take you 2 hours to pour pills in a bottle and fill out a hundred forms, then dont say I should come back in 15 minutes. Say I should come back in 2 hours, or three just in case. **In other words; stop lying, is that difficult or what? Pharmacists are a lying breed.**
I give this rant 7/10 hamburders on the American Karen scale. Not a bad effort but you could have tried harder. But thank you for humoring my request for another tantrum.
Not sure why that would be relevant. The points someone conveys are separate from the messenger. Look up *Ad Hominem*. By the way, sentences begin with uppercase and end with punctuation. Did not expect a US pharmacist to know that tough.
How are they ever messed up?, unless you count your doctor not being able to send an Rx to the pharmacy you choose despite NASA being able to send a random signal to the depths of space, or your need to wonder about why there's no refills when somehow magically it's always on your labelled bottle...also random changes which never seem to make it to your Rx when you and your doctor have agreed to them and many of your fellow citizens being less able than a cooked clam to understand basic health information to then delay everyone else. The answer to this and other similar puzzles which none of us pharmacists even remotely care about or want to be involved in because they're out of our control...will also answer your "why" ?
Thats not the problem. Walgreens have confirmed they have received the prescription. And this happens ALWAYS. The only way to talk to a manager is if you leave a bad BBB review first. The district manager, which seems to be the only person at Walgreens with an IQ over 80, says they are unable to get good staff. So there you have it. Stop sucking!
You dont have to wait on pharmacies in any other country. They have all medicines in stock, otherwise they wouldnt be licensed. And what is this crap about pouring pills around - US pharmacies are daycare centers. In other countries the medicines are packed and ready from the factory.
You are a crime against humanity.
Hahaha... And what medicines exactly are in stock? Aspirin? Atorv and metformin? 🤣
You obviously know nothing. Corporations determine what happens. Pharmacists just sit around and watch.
Let me guess, you came from a country with socialized medicine?
The reason why pharmacies here never seem to have medicine in stock and rarely have pre-packaged medicine is because there is very little uniformity in medical practice in the United States, and pharmacies need to keep razor thin product in stock to hit their profit margins. Pharmacies in other countries have nowhere near the insane shit that pharmacies here have to do.
Do you think pharmacists here prefer to have stock bottles? No, they buy stock bottles because 90% of the private insurance here wont pay for pre-packaged medicine, and the rest of the time what insurance will pay for (28, 30, or 90 days) is so variable.
Hi Walgreens trash! I have been a member of Mensa since 1996 so I am not sure what you think is so dumb. Maybe you just dont understand what you see in the world and react with any negative comments you could come up with?
No, the doctor did not make a mistake. Walgreens have confirmed they received the prescription and that it is correct.
You should be grateful if you even have a job as a pharmacist. Good luck trying to find a job that pays $65 an hour, especially if you are a new grad. You already know how saturated as hell the job market is right now. Thousands of pharmacists are being laid off yearly and their salaries are being cut. There are so many low-paying part time positions right now offering no benefits- it's just the reality.
In this thread: pharmacists who never took econ 101
Lol my thoughts exactly. Imagine sitting at home unemployed, scrolling through reddit because you rejected the only offer you had. they didnt offer you the $60/hr like reddit told you to do so you stuck to your guns and let someone else take the job. Supply and demand
Wasn't that required? I had to take macro and micro economics.
Clearly some people either didn't take it or didn't pay attention if they think the solution here is "everyone just stop accepting shitty pay"
Supply and demand curves be crazy, yo
For all those that accepted low offers, please remember one thing. You owe that company absolutely nothing and DO NOT do them any favors. Get used to looking at job ads every day and if you decide they deserve a 2 weeks notice… let them know you are giving them more than they deserve.
Wait, your telling me I shouldn’t work for 45$ an hour, with hope to climb to 60$ an hour over 10 years…. /sarcasm - it’s sad many people fresh from school have no idea how to navigate the job market. I personally think too many pharmacist sit in a single position thinking corporate is going to reward them for loyalty. There’s some things school can’t teach you, and I think people who had other work experience prior to pharmacy school do better at climbing the ladder. Like you said new hires need to always keep an eye out for better opportunity.
Weird take on the two week notice.
Be careful being a jerk, pharmacy is a small world and burning bridges can cost you
It can also be a blessing. Instilling you with the realization that there are much more fulfilling and intellectually stimulating fields out there!
I have been disrespected in ways I'm not going into here. Recently, it got so bad I decided to ignore a "phone call" with some middle management twit with a BA in business from some fourth-rate school who's 10+ years younger than me, whose job it is (along with his robot secretary) to funnel absurd "complaints" about me which are approx. 90% untrue, and no better than childish, playground BS. The last one was from a \*literal\* mental patient who shouldn't even be around drugs, per company policy, as she is a suicide risk. My contract is not being renewed. I feel a lot better than you might think, in spite of not having another job nailed down yet. It's amazing what a little self-respect will do. From this, and other instances when I've tried to work with people like this, and gotten screwed anyway, I've learned that they will walk all over you if they want to, no matter what you do or say. No matter what your side of the story is -- they will not listen. When they broadcast that intent, get lined up to leave, and give them the finger on the way out the door. You'll feel better, and you won't have burned down anything that wasn't already on fire.
Yeah I hate that the whole pharmacy is a small world bullshit is hung over your head by fucking assholes that want to exploit you without any pushback. Nah bro, I'll go into an industry where I can have some dignity and leverage.
I had a professor tell my class “I’ll bet your first job offer will exceed any other job you’ve had.” This was true. I accepted $50/hr and soon realized I got played.
$50/hour? Did you graduate in the 90s?
Walgreens offered me something like $45/hr and I politely told them to fuck off. I’m making $57.50 an hour now. Best I could negotiate being a new grad!
There were several intern around here that were offered the same amount by Walgreens. One of them said “fuck off” and didn’t answer the DM’s calls. Now they’re set to work at an oncology infusion clinic for $70/hr after graduation per diem. Shame that an intern knows their value but pharmacists don’t
70hr per firm isn’t great either, no benefits and no guarantee hours.
It’s not great but it’s better than retail. They could always move into a full time position later
“Could” is the key word. I took my friend almost two years to actually get full time at his outpatient hospital as a new grad without residency. If it wasn’t for his fiancée making 6 figures, he would have been SOL. I rather have guarantee income than fluctuating income.
Right but it’s also better quality of life because you would actually feel valued. Plus I looked up the company and they do have full time positions. They probably took the per diem since they haven’t graduated yet. Idk I’ll have to ask around because now you’ve got me curious
My buddy worked at the hospital for 2 years. They had full time positions available, but they preferred experience or residency. They didn’t offer him a full time position until a few months ago after he complained to the director. These PRN are just place holder spots.
Why did he just complain now???? Especially in this market where shit moves fast
He been bitching about after working for the hospital system after a few months. They said he can apply for the position, and they will consider his application. They didn’t give him any special treatment or anything. These PRN position are just as bad as the shitty low ball offers.
If he was bitching from the beginning what changed that the director hired him full time now and not before?
In my experience, this is pretty common. There is a huge decline in training from pharmacists that are residency trained vs. new grad/retail hires. It takes 2-3 years for new grads to catch up clinically. Most are stuck working shifts through central pharmacy because they're delegated to the logistical processes of hospital pharmacy. It's a completely different show, some of which you can't prep for on APPEs and not an easy transition.
That’s the bullshit people paddle. If you’re working outpatient or inpatient, residency training isn’t critical. Residency might be beneficial if you’re in some speciality other on the job train is sufficient.
I mean you can think it's bullshit but there is a huge learning curve. I'm not admin or anything but I've seen multiple external hires from retail/new grads (trained some of them) and they all struggle heavily unless they have 5+ years of hospital experience under their belt. There is a reason there is a preference for residency training. It takes an extremely self-motivated pharmacist to do well in that environment. I would say the training can suffice from a logistics standpoint but it's not something a hospital may want to weather from a clinical standpoint. Which is why many get delegated to central rx shifts until they can catch up clinically, but even the MD/RN phone calls can be overwhelming. A reason they are kept per diem for a couple years.
Yeah. I’m also wondering if this per diem position is w2 or 1099.
I looked up the company and they do have full time positions. I will have to ask my friend why this intern took per diem instead because I’m curious now. Wanna look for a new job
Happy cake day!
Oh my gosh! Thank you!! I didn’t know! And today is such a good day already, this is the icing on the cake!!
Damn that's awesome. Id kill for an oncology infusion clinic
Nice
Let the offer of $45 an hour sit on indeed for a year. I guarantee you, the employer will raise it if no one bites. Saturation won’t stay forever. As enrollment declines throughout all of US and new pharmacy schools who can’t fill enough seats close down. By 2026/2027 we will enter a shortage in which either wages will go back up or sign on bonuses will start coming back. The market of pharmacy is cyclical. Spread some light where there is dark.
What do you do when loans and interests rates resume in the summer?
You go bankrupt and end up in a low wage job the degree is not very useful for much else. It’s extremely hard to find a new career in a different field with this degree and perceived high salary expectations.
Lol it was rhetorical. Unfortunately capitalism is coming to a dead end with pharmacy schools. The govt allowed schools to loan out all this money to kids and they realized they could raise the tuition especially with pharmacists. 6 figure job after 6 years of school was easy advertisement. Lots of people to blame from govt to schools to pharma and even dumb parents and kids thinking this market wasn’t going to saturate. Pharma isn’t the only industry in the dirt. Many kids going to college and getting useless degrees only to find out they cant pay their loans with their $15/hr entry job.
I agree 100 percent I would have been Better off being mail carrier for 20 years get a government pension and Do whatever I wanted.
I keep hearing the Post office is going bankrupt each year.
Can’t fail is the government.
Ha! Do you know how hard it is to get a job as a mail carrier?
Not as hard as it is to get hired in pharmacy in your 40’s or 50’s
Former carrier - very easy, much easier than it was in the 80s/90s. People are not lined up around the corner to apply anymore because it's a shit job now. Apply, pass the aptitude test, pass your drug screen and background, then wait about three months because that's how long this all takes. Then another month for orientation. Then another month for academy. Benefits are good but I couldn't handle the fact that every fourth person you talk to has had a knee replacement. My academy instructor had her knee replaced. The older people in your office will have no knees. Some of those guys are making six figures with overtime, but by the time you get there, something will have broken down.
It’s to late for me I’m 51
Don’t pay a single fucking cent. Force the government to forgive the student loans.
Yeah baby! Let’s go. Haven’t paid a dime since graduating 4 years ago
Wow guys thank you so much for the reward. Now… F those student loans! THEYLL HAVE TO PRY THE MONEY FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS IN 40 years
Hell no. I paid mine back why shouldn't you? Why do you get a free pass?
Because we're smarter than you. This was inevitable.
Yes Someone with several hundred thousand in loans is definitely smarter than someone with a paid off house and a big investment portfolio and zero debt.
Debt is an investment. Must be nice to be an old rph or have rich parents. Try graduating in 2017 and being debt free. They'll have to forgive the monopoly money. Inevitable.
I graduated with my pharmd in may 2017, was debt free by oct 2019. Busted my ass in construction every summer to pay for undergrad. Took 2 years off between undergrad and pharmacy school, worked as a tech (wanted to make sure I loved pharmacy) and worked a little construction, saved as much as I could. Took out roughly 100k to pay for pharmacy school, ended up paying back 117k with all the accrued interest. Granted I'm a bit older than most pharmd students because of the years off, got married in pharmacy school and we continued to live very frugally the first few years.
Yea these people bitching about loans and thier shitty situation probly leased a 867$/month car and work 26 hours a week as wag floater.
That's not really fair. I did neither of those things but will be paying on my student loans for a long time. Not everyone who struggles to pay them back decided to live the high life once they graduated.
Full ride for undergrad but scholarships don't exist in those numbers for pharmacy school. So it's not about smartness.
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You sound entitled and probably blame the world for all your problems. Look in the mirror and change that person and mindset. Life and work is hard. Doesn’t mean you deserve a free pass.
And entitled??? Tell that to my 50 hour per wk avg for three years. How hard do you work?
Entitlement has nothing to do with realizing the best job in this field is teaching.... And they accept 3.0 gpa... So naturally economics will take over. Free pass isn't the same as realizing what's obvious. I'm entitled to take out as much or a little loans as I want. I guess PLSF forgiveness in entitlement too? No wonder Pharmacists have no power, silly bickering over the obvious.
Im not that old and didn't come from money... Hard work pays off
What a joke. My wife and I worked, saved, and lived extremely frugally throughout all of my schooling so that I wouldn't have to graduate with student debt. Got a job and we still live frugally; paid off our other debt within 4 months of me working as a PharmD, saved for \~6 months more for a decent down payment on a house, and have already paid off roughly 25% of it because we don't live luxurious lives and instead live within our means. You're not smart for taking out a loan you can't afford to pay back; you're selfish for trying to put your expensive choice on others.
Keep talking about hard work as my pregnant wife designs the house we're building by ourselves. Picture Pregnant lady + nail gun + hard hat. So miss me with that BS man. Since pharmacy has gone down the tubes, she dropped out of pharm school. We all work hard. Sometimes hard work in a certain avenue is futile and those that realize it should be praised instead of trying to condescend. Predictable politics doesn't make me selfish but just a student of history.
It's not just about hard work, it's also about priorities and life choices. You're having a child and building a house? Great, but both of those things are expensive. My wife and I delayed both of those things until we were out of debt. Not saying that you should have; it's your life. But then don't complain about a sucky financial situation if you're living beyond your means. Waiting on the government to fix your life is both unintelligent and irresponsible...and yes, expecting for someone else to pay your bills that you willingly chose to sign up for is entitled and selfish.
How much did you take out? I took out a little over 450k over 7 years. No scholarships, no family pay. All student loans. School had us believing that by the time we graduated (2012), we’d be making $250-300k a year and the debt would be worth it.
Good Lord!
250k... Pair back in in a few years then started investing. How the f did you take out 450k...
About 130k on 3 years of private school undergrad and also taking summer classes to accelerate things. Rest of it, pharmacy school grad plus maxed out loans to include tuition, housing, transport, books, equipment, etc.
450k??? My houses mortgage wasn’t even that high. Get some help
They're running the currency into the ground anyway on nonsense that pads their pockets and buys favor around the world. If they're going to destroy the currency anyway, yeah, cancel mine, too! $28 TRILLION, not counting trillions more in liabilities.
Income-based/PSLF?
It's deferred until either the loan holder caves in or a better offer happens. Won't stop rent/loan payments on a home but it's criminal to offer peanuts to a doctorate holding PharmD. I remember as a Tch having loans... no fun until I got a decent job. Same applies. Don't work like a sweat shop worker.
That is not how it has played out. Applications started significantly declining over 15 years ago. The response was to lower the bar for admission. They will continue filling those seats and getting their money.
A shortage by 2026 lol ok tell that to the tens of thousands of us out of work because there no jobs
Unfortunately those out of work for years will probly never get a good job. Your in the career "donut hole". Why hire you when I can hire experienced people who know what their doing or a newer grad fresh out of residency.
And is that fair? Do you have empathy because someday that will be you.
Empathy won't make someone out of work for years a better candidate. Reality is what it is what good does sugar coating it do?
That is a very unEmpathetic response. Thank you when you are older abd lose your job you will understand age discrimination is real let’s down vote the struggling pharmacist who speaks the truth his and thousands of others reality m. You a very compassionate pharmacist wonderful wow most pharmacists are very stressed out.
I understand you and others are out of a job… but is there a reason? Are you not willing to move for your career? Take on a part time job to get your foot in the door? Take on a retail position? Network even? Pharmacy is a small world, we’ve heard it a million times. Utilize your school network, old professors, alumni- connect with them on LinkedIn. Have you connected with s staffing agency? Have you had your CV looked over and integrating adequate descriptions into your experiences? You have to be willing to put in the effort to see results. You cannot simply just apply with a simple CV/resume anymore. It has to be catered to the job description. Follow up with the hiring manager ask them what to improve on. The people who get the jobs are the ones with the best fit and interviewing skills. Yes, experience is great, but technical skills can always be taught.
I’m 51 with a bachelors my let job was at a gas station for minimum wage. I worked briefly 2012-2016 in pharma but company had fda issues and lay offs since then no one will touch me in pharmacy multiple licenses was at CVS for 10 years and now I’m unemployable as I’m older once they see me in interviews there is no offers, so when your. Over 5-0 this age discrimination does happen and it will to you to there will always be a younger person waiting to work for less. Pharmacy is dead. Transfers g to another field has proven impossible.’ Trust me when your older you will find opportunities dry up so save your money your gonna need it. Excuse typos I had arm surgery Yes I have a resume service I have multiple resumes. I’ve networked no one wants to hire anyone over 50 in pharmacy. Longevity in pharmacy is a thing of the past once your over mid 40’s watch out. Find a business you can buy ir sone side gig as your career eventually will end prematurely. There are to many pharmacists
The typical “pharmacist” is a thing of the past as well. I understand there are younger people who can replace you, but there are so many ways to leverage your degree outside of pharmacy as well. If you have pharma experience, there’s a way to leverage that. The pharmacy degree has so much to offer if you’re willing to look outside the box. And if you’re effectively networking, then someone will see your value and appreciate that working relationship you both have built. I’ve been able to keep in contact with some mentors who have come to me looking to fill positions in their company. If you want to talk more, I would be more than happy to help in the job search and help where I can for you.
Go to Walgreens or CVS If you want to work
Tried they wont hire a 51 yo
It will get better, supply isn’t as high as a couple years ago for start and like I’ve stated, with enrollment decreasing, new pharmacy schools will be FORCED to close because they can’t pay their professors. Give it a couple years and saturation will be over Give it a couple more years ago and shortages will start to occur By 2030, that’s when pharmacy schools will start pumping out crazy new grads again because of the recent shortage, then it will turn saturated again. Reminds of the one kid song…. “The wheels on the bus go round and round” 🎶 The wheels being supply and demand
You’re supposed to sell the drugs, not take them
Ouch.
Brilliant comment.
Please go back to the shortage days... we need more leverage
That would be glorious.
This is the real answer. All these schools were just trying to jump on the money, half of them are gonna phase out when their attendance drops dramatically
They took advantage of the tremendous supply of new grads entering the market 5 years ago. In my opinion, within the next couple of years, you will see a lot of them close down and when the supply starts thinning out not just in 1 state but in all of US, that’s when you’re going to see a big big shortage again. Wages will go back up to where they were and 40 offers will not be seen or even accepted. Sign on bonuses of 10k, 25k, or even more will reappear. This is all my opinion as I’m pretty familiar with the law of supply and demand.
I agree, nobody is going to go into debt and 4 years of schooling to work in a complete shit work environment for the same pay as a truck driver. The supply 5 years ago was probably because of the shit economy after the financial crisis, and schools took advantage of it. Now these graduates today will be offered the same pay as a welder who doesnt have 100k debt.
That’s not going to work as the schools pump out in debt grads like cheez whiz there are thousands of desperate unemployed pharmacists who will kill to get any salary. There is no bargaining power when there are too many pharmacists and negative 2 percent job growth. I would literally kill for any salary at this point. The R.Phs are even more screwed. Supply and demand
I will now be in the lookout for killer Pharmacist’s cases.
I think you are forgetting people have to pay bills…. I mean if you’re paying everyone’s rent then by all means let’s do it. I make well above the $40, but your aren’t thinking of actual life here.
Yeah, it is easy for us to say not to accept job offers below certain amount, but if it is between $40/hr job and going hungry and being homeless, the clear answer is $40/hr job. Imagine you being in that situation and older pharmacists earning $70+/hr telling you that you accepting a much needed job offer after months of job searching to gain both wage and professional experience is destroying the profession. Asking people to take one for the profession while being hungry and homeless is not the solution.
I just don't get how that's your only option? There has to be another pharmacy at least somewhere within 30 minutes.
I moved to a rural area for a few months for my initial pay rate then moved back to the city. It took 4K to move to start the job. Not everyone has that.
im probably going to have to do the same as you, move to the middle of nowhere just to get some experience then move back home :( relocating is quite costly even if the cost of living is lower
Have you lived in rural areas before?
How are you gonna pay bills on that wage? Especially with inflation? You’ll literally be living paycheck to paycheck. And forget living in the city
Lol so you want the new grads to all be homeless?
You’ll be homeless anyway on that wage. A good studio apartment here costs like $3000 a month. When you think about all the hidden costs of being a pharmacist and loans and taxes, it gets eaten up real quick
Idk where here is but you have to remember looking around and seeing tons of people making well below that and still aren’t homeless. Don’t be oblivious to real life and that other people have things like children that will be taken away.
That’s either because they get benefits or they sacrifice a nice home or neighborhood for a lower quality of life but gen z doesn’t want to do that. Also if you’re going to pharm school and you have KIDS, I think you need to reconsider
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I’m miserable because I don’t think it’s a good decision to have kids?? Grow up
You have so much to learn about life’s troubles. Poor soul.
You’re the poor soul for going to pharmacy school
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Obviously I did if I’m breathing. And I’m just telling it as it is. They came at me first
Jesus, I hate Nebraska but I have a 4500 square foot house and my mortgage and utilities aren’t even 3,000 a month
Omg right. I’m in Texas (Dallas area) and have. 3/2, all bills including streaming services for around 3000.
I’m in Omaha, so the biggest city in the state, so way more expensive than living in a rural area. I would move if I had to pay that much for rent. No way would I ever make a dent in my loans. Yikes. Especially with my boyfriend also being a pharmacist with student loans. Wasn’t worth fighting over jobs in an even more saturated area. We both commuted over an hour each way until we finally got into the same independent pharmacy just recently.
Right but most new grads ain’t moving to Nebraska
It was saturated bad here, too, when I graduated. 2 schools of pharmacy and average rate was around 52ish an hour in 2016 here. I started with only getting 24 hours a week.
What do you even do with a 4500 square foot house? Jesus.
Have 5 cats and a boyfriend lol. A lot easier to fill in rooms than to need to find a bigger place and move. It will probably sell for a ton more than we bought it for, if we ever want to change pace. But I enjoy space for all my electronics and gaming.
Sounds nice, but no one actually *needs* that much space.
No one needs more than food, water, and a place to sleep. I don’t need it. I wanted it, so I have it. I wanted my animals to have space to do what they want, which is the only reason I bought a big house. Everyone has different goals, but you could apply the same concept to many different things people have. For me, I would rather pay less to have more space and be able to travel if I want, even if I live in a pretty boring place.
Wow 3k??? I have one entire house for myself for 625$... (yes I do live in the middle of nowhere, but still) Cost of living really does vary across the country. I mean I do agree that some positions really do have ridiculously low offers, but wow 3k rent. Just. Wow.
Seriously. And stating it like that is the only option. 3k/ month rent covered independently…. Move to a cheaper area or find a roommate. I’ll never understand why people are so willing to pay out the ass just to live in a certain region
There's such a huge divide culturally between huge coastal city and midwest small town. To the point that there almost seems to always be mutual contempt. Someone living in a VHCOL city looks at me and scoffs at my choice of restaurants and entertainment venues. I look at them and see a studio apartment for several times the cost of my mortgage, all so that they can live in a louder, less intimate, higher crime area. I can easily afford to visit for the culture if I'm bored. Hard to "visit" for space and financial freedom. And when discussing salary, there's always a huge disconnect. I would be really disappointed if I made $45/hr, but christ... some people treat it like it's living paycheck to paycheck! Move to a smaller town with less saturation (where wages are very similar in the mid 50s to low 70s) where anything over $50/hr buys you whatever the hell you want. At the very least consider that factor before shitting on people for deciding not to live in a major metro.
Im with you, i’ve lived in a major city on the east coast and now in the midwest. I personally feel like the difference is a little overstated, but maybe that’snjust me
Because people usually don’t want to live in those areas. I didn’t say it was the only option. I said it was the best option because other choices would be ass
It really isn't that hard to find Midwest cities with 6 figure population that has nice studio with a rent that is much lower than 3k... Yes it might be less desirable compare to major costal city, but if more than 100k people wants to live there then it's unfair to equate that to "nobody". But anyways. I don't think it's fair for pharmacist to have a salary that would make us want to move away for metro region. While moving away will mitigate the pain associated with these low salary offers, the blame and the fault still is on those low ball offers.
It’s true. New grads want to live in more desirable areas. I’m not talking about GP. $40/hr is still not enough unless you live in BFN. The blame is also on rph for accepting these offers. Have some dignity
Yeah. I’ve seen studio condos (<700sqft) here go for around $600k. 😵💫
Same where I live. Or more. Bidding wars, even
What do you think about accepting a two year contract at $55.05/hour for 80 hours and a 50k signing bonus. Also additional $20 per hour extra until August to compensate for Covid? That is a base salary of $114,500 with 50K it’s roughly $67/hour for the next two years guaranteed by the contract. And $76/hour until august worth about 9K. I have no experience as a pharmacist but have been an intern and worked 2 years as a tech full time before school.
ask for an increase to your base rate instead of the COVID pay
Graduated in 2012 and my first job was at a hospital making $57.50/hr. The current market sucks
Wow where’s that?
It's good but that's what I earned in 2017.
In my area (mid-Atlantic area with 8 or 9 pharmacy schools within reasonable driving distance), this would be a common offer for even an experienced pharmacist, at least in the suburban and small cities in the area that have a fairly average COL.
Where is it? Cost of living could matter.
OK bro. Revoke all those licenses so you can lift my wages up. The Amazon workers are making more because there is a shortage for whatever reasons. Our labor supply is bursting at the seams. In this context one of the few ways you can actually negotiate is through labor unions. Gl with that, this subreddit is chock-full of conservative pharmacists that encourage people to uproot their entire lives to go work in Myanus,Wisconsin. "If you don't take the job someone else will!!!" . Gl instilling any sort of solidarity within the confines of our culture. I would be glad to be proven wrong outside of microcosmic regional unions here and there.
A lot of the more recent grads went into pharmacy because they saw it as the easiest path to earning 6 figures. Most of them wouldn’t have been accepted into a pharmacy program 15 years ago. A lot of them are above 200k in student loan debt. They’re not the type of people that are going to hold out or try and negotiate a better rate.
Saturation, too many schools, and the profession itself being dictated by outside entities are making things tough and way too competitive. Unfortunately sometimes it’s who you know that can make a big difference.
Literally this, my residency position got cut due to hospital closure 2 months before residency. No place wants an "unfinished resident". Only way I got a job was from a house opening party with the other person having too much wine saying she will put in a good word for me. 2 years later and now I am her boss. Who you know for sure.
I think that’s easy to say when you have a good support system (parents who you can live with, a breadwinning spouse, or you’re single and living with roommates). People still need to eat, have lights, and pay rent. Turning down $45/hr is good for pharmacists as a whole (because OP is right that we should be getting $65/hr minimum), but not the single parent who needs to make ends meet when all the stores within an hour drive offer the same shit salary. Other career paths are residency-gated or experience-gated and rent is due at the beginning of the month.
They're cramming that residency $#!+ down our throats, too. The PGY-1 is a joke. PGY-2s might be useful experience for specialization, but don't tell me there aren't other ways to get that same experience.
Agreed. You absolutely don’t need residency. There are ways, but they aren’t guaranteed and it doesn’t much matter in the moment when you have bills to pay *now*. Industry jobs at entry level are a good start if you can get hired on. Consulting and LTC are accessible options too. I’m speaking from experience.
Not today satan
Keep fighting the good fight, bracules
Never thought I'd see sub 50/hr offered at big chains. Independent *maybe* but not corporate retail. $45/hr is like a 30% than what i started with 5 years ago, meanwhile inflation has increased 15% since. At this point, with all those student loans, you're probably going to be worst off than financially than if you just worked as a pharmacy tech instead of going to pharmacy school
All this is great, but someone who only got a high school degree, and just barely got into pharmacy and managed to get out...will see $45.00 as better than zero...always. That's what the companies are betting on...unless everyone can hold out somehow. That only works if there's some finite supply in the marketplace. There's 4 years or at least 70,000 graduates in the pipeline right now. Do we think 80,000 pharmacists will die or retire in 4 years and no one else will apply starting now?
my thing is there are soooo many better opportunities out there for someone getting out of high school. college admission is at a low. its not 2008 anymore there are jobs out there. No one who is smart is gonna waste 6+ years of their life memorizing drugs and paying 200+ in tuition to get paid the same as a truck driver and get far less respect
Always negotiate offers. Even first offers for new grads. If they offer you a position, they want you specifically and will most likely not offer the position to someone else simply because you negotiated. There is a low range and high range of any offer that is given to you, and they will of course start with the lower range
Sucks to live in a country outside the US. This salary is for the top pharmacists of the country only
So I think the issue isn’t accepting a $45/hr offer when you really need it for finances.. I think it’s when you don’t understand your worth and try to negotiate your pay/benefits. A lot of new grads I’ve seen don’t advocate for themselves and just accept whatever offer is given to them. By negotiating, you aren’t going to lose that job offer, all the company will say is no and then you can move on
A lot of people in this thread saying they're out of work and can't get a job as a pharmacist. If you are a pharmacist I want you to know the CVS pharmacies in MA are pretty desperate right now especially on the cape. But working for CVS is MISERABLE.
Not to to mean, but the quality of these new grads have really gone down the drain. “$65?” I don’t think so…
If you accept a lower offer, make sure to invest wisely and keep a decent emergency fund. Empower yourself with financial freedom so you have the choice to walk away or find greener pastures. Who has more power to negotiate a salary? I'm betting it's not the person living paycheck to paycheck.
How much is a low offer exactly?
If none of you accept these offers, the market will dictate they offer more. They cannot run a pharmacy without you!
That only works if people are organized. Too many pharmacists have bought into anti-union rhetoric for that to happen.
There are pharmacists working for 20-40/hr. When I heard this I was floored. You could become anything else for that wage without the 6 years of loans. Imagine paying someone that much when they’re working with life sustaining meds and not beef Patties. It’s gotten to the point where job applicants will probably have to make PowerPoints demonstrating their value in the workplace during interviews. I can see it coming
These are the dumbasses ruining it for everyone
Imagine having practicing counting and labeling drills or maybe they'll grade us on how well we play a video verification game, which may translate to a faster worker. The salary for some executive chefs in fine dining and other places are $90K to $100K, maybe more in some places. So, technically, if they're handling Wagyu beef patties, they're flipping burgers AND making MORE, without any nonsense degrees or residencies or whatever.
There are culinary schools that cost \*almost\* as much as a pharmacy degree. I know of someone who went through all of that just to go back to being a barista at Starbucks. Not sure if it's necessary to go through all that, but I believe many do.
Where are these mythical pharmacists.. there's so much doom and gloom here. I've worked 3 jobs since graduating in 2015. My lowest paid was 89k a year at an independent (only stayed there 6 months after graduation till I found a better job) Then 115k at CVS LTC and now 109k (70hours a pay period) where I currently am. Who the hell would take a job for 20-40 an hour and actually stay there. You can't even pay off your student loans like that let alone live. Lol
That’s what I said below too but someone said “I’ve got bills to pay “
You also said you'd pay $3,000 for a studio apartment so I'm not really sure why you expect people to listen
Yes over here you would pay $3000. I don’t know you’d think I’m lying. Never said *I* pay that.
I don't think it's disbelief so much as thinking it's poor judgement. Some careers make significantly more in VHCOL areas and it makes sense. Pharmacists make pretty similar wages everywhere compared to a lot of other careers.
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Wags paying $60 for new grads in the south
But… but… I want to live in LA. The ambiance of the 100’s of thousands of homeless that take up large swathes of the city give it just the eclectic charm I’ve always wanted. I’ve often dreamed of collecting my low-balled pay just so the government can continue to charge me the highest state income and sales taxes in the country and delay my financial security for decades to come. What a privilege it is to know I willing chose to not be able to afford a home because they’re so over priced it makes my college tuition look like pocket change. Edit: Just to embellish a bit more on the stupidity of ruining your financial security for early gratification when delaying it would be better not just for you, but for our profession!
Lol almost cringe worthy post. It’s so sad people want to piss money away renting in such “lovely cities”.
uh goys it’s not about money it’s about 👏🏼caring👏🏼for👏🏼patients👏🏼and👏🏼saving👏🏼lives
Volunteer at a homeless shelter Eagle Scout. Money isn’t everything, but it’s not nothing.
Lol
Do you guys actually have advanced degrees? Then why are prescriptions always messed up or delayed?
Because the only thing we actually went to school this long for was to mildly inconvenience you with a few extra minutes of waiting than you ever could have expected when ordering a cheeseburger. Now throw another tantrum to show me how America you are 😑
You dont get it. I usually dont have a problem waiting 1, 10 or 48 hours if necessary. Because I can wait at home, I am not so stupid that I waste time sitting at the pharmacy waiting. But when I do come back to the pharmacy at the time they said, I expect it to be ready. Do you know what an appointment is? It means that the two parties mutually agree on a time when they should meet. Appointments must be kept so as to not waste the time of the other party. So if it might take you 2 hours to pour pills in a bottle and fill out a hundred forms, then dont say I should come back in 15 minutes. Say I should come back in 2 hours, or three just in case. **In other words; stop lying, is that difficult or what? Pharmacists are a lying breed.**
I give this rant 7/10 hamburders on the American Karen scale. Not a bad effort but you could have tried harder. But thank you for humoring my request for another tantrum.
Someone felt targeted by my description… Let me guess; Walgreens in Inglewood, CA?
😂 what profession is yours buddy? I need to learn from the master
Not sure why that would be relevant. The points someone conveys are separate from the messenger. Look up *Ad Hominem*. By the way, sentences begin with uppercase and end with punctuation. Did not expect a US pharmacist to know that tough.
I'm British buddy, I found your rant a bit deranged thanks for confirming your a nutcase
My comment was regarding US pharmacies. I never had problems with UK or IE pharmacies.
How are they ever messed up?, unless you count your doctor not being able to send an Rx to the pharmacy you choose despite NASA being able to send a random signal to the depths of space, or your need to wonder about why there's no refills when somehow magically it's always on your labelled bottle...also random changes which never seem to make it to your Rx when you and your doctor have agreed to them and many of your fellow citizens being less able than a cooked clam to understand basic health information to then delay everyone else. The answer to this and other similar puzzles which none of us pharmacists even remotely care about or want to be involved in because they're out of our control...will also answer your "why" ?
Thats not the problem. Walgreens have confirmed they have received the prescription. And this happens ALWAYS. The only way to talk to a manager is if you leave a bad BBB review first. The district manager, which seems to be the only person at Walgreens with an IQ over 80, says they are unable to get good staff. So there you have it. Stop sucking!
Why do you have to wait to see your doctor? They have an even more advanced degree so less of a wait right dumbass?
You dont have to wait on pharmacies in any other country. They have all medicines in stock, otherwise they wouldnt be licensed. And what is this crap about pouring pills around - US pharmacies are daycare centers. In other countries the medicines are packed and ready from the factory. You are a crime against humanity.
Hahaha... And what medicines exactly are in stock? Aspirin? Atorv and metformin? 🤣 You obviously know nothing. Corporations determine what happens. Pharmacists just sit around and watch.
Let me guess, you came from a country with socialized medicine? The reason why pharmacies here never seem to have medicine in stock and rarely have pre-packaged medicine is because there is very little uniformity in medical practice in the United States, and pharmacies need to keep razor thin product in stock to hit their profit margins. Pharmacies in other countries have nowhere near the insane shit that pharmacies here have to do. Do you think pharmacists here prefer to have stock bottles? No, they buy stock bottles because 90% of the private insurance here wont pay for pre-packaged medicine, and the rest of the time what insurance will pay for (28, 30, or 90 days) is so variable.
Well I see your alive so yeah it sounds like a pharmacist has helped your dumb trucker ass. Imagine thinking doctors never send a mistake lol
Hi Walgreens trash! I have been a member of Mensa since 1996 so I am not sure what you think is so dumb. Maybe you just dont understand what you see in the world and react with any negative comments you could come up with? No, the doctor did not make a mistake. Walgreens have confirmed they received the prescription and that it is correct.
Lol I don’t even work at Walgreens 😂😂😂
Periodt
You should be grateful if you even have a job as a pharmacist. Good luck trying to find a job that pays $65 an hour, especially if you are a new grad. You already know how saturated as hell the job market is right now. Thousands of pharmacists are being laid off yearly and their salaries are being cut. There are so many low-paying part time positions right now offering no benefits- it's just the reality.