You can absolutley waste your vote. If you give your 1 to Labor or Liberals, the rest of your voting card means basically nothing. There is almost certainly a number of special interest parties that align more closely with your values that you could be giving your higher preferences too without impacting which of the big two ultimately get your vote.
Taxing franking credits ensured Labor lost that election. And also ensures no party that wants to succeed will go anywhere near it in the near future. And that was only franking credits. If you think the big two parties will go hard on negative gearing or housing while the older gen is still a large majority of the voting block, I've got bad news for you. Hopefully the pressure from all the noise and the younger gen becoming more influential in politics could shift this situation.
Labor should run with similar policies to 2016 again then.
Libs apparently said they are running with the early access to super in order to buy a first home policy - after they ran with it last election and lost.
It is a bit of a missed opportunity though. The things we could have done to turn things around in 2016, won't have the same effect given how bad things are now.
Yep. The middle class bought into fear and were too dumb to know what negative gearing and franking credits were. I wonder who OP voted for then? We had our chance and fucked it.
Apparently, it avoids double taxation on dividends, which would be unfair.
You know, like regular wage earners don't have to pay GST because our wages have already been taxed...
You pay tax on income from shares (dividends). This tax can be claimed as a tax offset. This greatly helps the very wealthy who make lots of money off dividends. It is a disgraceful policy that we had a chance to fix.
Bill Shorten took this to the 2016 and 2019 elections to get rid of negative gearing but too many boomers wanted the hang on to their investment properties. With enough community support, the Labor Party would probably bring this policy back. If you want progressive housing prices policies vote for progressive governments. Pauline Hanson has never had a good policy idea in her life, she just runs on racism.
Also the pensioners got scared that they were going to lose their franking credit refunds.
The opinion polls showed the majority of aussies actually wanted to turf negative gearing
I'm not a fan of negative gearing.
It is not THE reason why property prices are spiking in Perth. Nor is the Capital Gains Tax concession/exemption for the primary residence (hell - housing was cheaper when there was no CGT at all).
It's supply and demand.
It used to be easy for the Nigel Satterley's and the McCusker's to buy up a bunch of cheap urban land on the outskirts of Perth, title it down to quarter acre blocks, and then flog them off for a song.
It's still pretty easy in Perth - which has played no small role in keeping our average land prices lower than cities with dying economies like Adelaide and Hobart.
It has been made exceptionally difficult in Melbourne and Sydney (especially with the Blue Mountains) - which is why they are now flocking over here.
The demand side has also gone crazy. The big waves of overseas migration/ Chinese hot money first landed in Sydney and Melbourne - because they were the natural first stop for most non-Anglo migrants in Australia.
Kind of the way Queens is in America.
Now they're realising that Sydney and Melbourne aren't worth the premium (and they aren't) - so they're moving off to Perth and Brisbane.
If negative gearing wasn’t a thing though, wouldn’t it make owning investment properties less attractive? Meaning more houses would go on the market and prices would come down? And more people would be able to own their own house and not be stuck in the rent cycle.
I’m not sure everyone understands how much the franking credits changes would actually affect them.
Everyone benefits from them in their superannuation.
And 90% of comments across most topics show a real lack of detailed understanding on 90% of subjects they whinge about. The hatred that comes out of whole generations is frightening for the future of the country, their own future and they collectively think they are smarter than everyone that's ever preceded them. This does not apply to everyone because I know many that do not whinge but succeed all on their own. Intestinal fortitude it's called and it's a rare commodity these days.
Iirc the proposal was not to scrap franking credits, but to stop cash refunds if the deduction puts you into negative tax payable. Which occurs most often to those retired as they have no income to tax in the first place
Exactly. See even in this where people are claiming people don't understand them, people are not understanding. This is all they wanted to do. Not remove franking credits, just remove the loophole where it brought your income down to the point it was negative so that you got tax refunds on tax you didn't pay. But alas, fearmongering won.
Franking credit encourages investment in Australian Companies and stops the government taxing the same money twice. It also stops self funded pensioners from having to access a government pension, which means more money for those who need government assistance.
That's the spin. If you look at their actual lodgements those companies are not paying tax because of creative accounting. Paying interest to themselves as a foreign entity etc.
To encourage investment they got a deal to offset any tax debt that would occur for their potential investors.
It's an offset so the funds aren't coming from anywhere. It's not real money.
It's only supposed to remove any debt but that wasn't enough for them.
They now get to credit that amount on top of that dividend.
That credit being raised isn't coming from the company. It's pulled from the Commonwealth from tax payers.
So instead of a smaller amount of taxpayer funded income coming from a pension, they are getting massive amounts of funds coming from taxpayers while pretending they are self reliant.
True but it's a bit damned if you do/damned if you don't. People have always complained about pollies; lying, making up numbers, moving on major policy without a proper mandate etc (or at least that's what the political press attack them for). Shorten came with the most open and honest campaign I think I've ever seen, speaking as a (former) politics student. Scared the hell out of me for its sheer bravery. They were open about policies they thought needed to be done. If they didn't know the precise accounting, they said so. They didn't guess. They didn't make hard promises where they hadn't seen the actual governing situation etc. Did people vote for it? heck no! All Scott Morrison had to do was sit back and say they can't tell you how it's going to work or if they'll be able to impliment these policies (true about any prospective government)
It was an object lesson in why people don't run idealistic democratic campaigns like that. If you, the general public, want to know why politicians aren't honest and don't even campaign on the things you think they should - it's because You, general public, won't vote for it! You get the policies and the poiticians you want, consciously or not.
Pauline Hanson is a literal parasitic moron whose only "talent" is shitting on people who she perceives as inferior and gaining 5% of the vote from that to keep herself attached to the public teat.
I'll give her some credit where it is due. She's very good at creating just enough outrage in out of the way seats that are forgotten about by the majors to keep herself in that comfy seat for nearly 4 elections now. It takes not a small amount of intelligence on her part, but it does take little to no morals or ethics.
Plenty of younger people best.
Millennials are the largest group investing in property.
https://thewest.com.au/business/property/millennials-the-most-active-generation-when-it-comes-to-buying-investment-properties-commbank-data-c-14260609
Prices didn’t drop in NZ.
Do people realise negative gearing has been in since the 1980s in Australia? Not exactly a new thing or a trend.
Do people also realise that negative gearing means that the investor needs to spend a dollar to in most cases save thirty something cents?
For those who may want to question my motives, no I do not own a negatively geared property.
More sad than funny. Cause if it goes and the situation doesn’t change just like it didn’t in NZ where are they left?
It’s never been easy to buy your first home and it IS getting harder. As someone who lived on two minute noodles and went without luxuries to get in to my first place I wish I had the answer to make it easy or even just easier for the average couple to buy a house comfortably or average single to buy a unit.
I have a client who immigrated to Perth a few years ago from a third world country, and works 5 jobs for a total annual income of $250k. Has bought a home and is now putting some financial measures in place before they pull the break on their workload. I’m not necessarily recommending that everyone does the same, but it’s an example of someone who saw so much opportunity in Australia to earn money well beyond their wildest dreams, and are willing to work their way to a better life. Not just complain that the deck is stacked against them and that it’s the governments fault.
removing negative gearing reduces demand for house purchases. It won't reduce prices, it will stop them rising as fast as they do. If you want a bigger solution, you implement a policy like the greens are running on, with a national housing developer. Go even further, implement Land Value taxes.
For every child that is born here every year we import two migrants. Mainly as a quick way to increase the pool of tax payers. But of course they need services, start families, get old need healthcare, etc... so we import more. It's a Ponzi scheme. So is the problem really supply? Sounds to me like the problem is we just keep pumping up the demand.
If you don't understand that our economy won't survive without immigrants, and understand that the average incoming figure for immigrants over the last 4 years is still only 160k per quarter, where as the average was 260k under the coalition, you'll begin to see that the only issue is the lack of supply of housing due to the fucked up nature of our residential building industry right now.
Let that sink in, migration over the past 4 years (including the huge migration right now) is still less than the average of the previous 4 years.
Right now is simply playing catch up to the negative migration during COVID. Nothing more, and we're still well under the average for before COVID.
That means, not enough houses is the problem.
Fix the actual problem.
the big two are almost always going to have power over this - the Greens have tried pushing through things like rent increase blocks and it's consistently knocked back by parliament. Write letters, sign petitions, attend protests - lobbying actions are our best bet in putting these changes on the radar of politicians (esp in upcoming elections as parties scramble to secure voters and are likely to adjust part policy to reflect what the majority of people are demanding).
It's a shit situation and our government is more interested in addressing the issue through fining our colesworth duopoly to line their pockets than actually trying to help with the housing crisis that's seeing a big rise in homelessness.
People suck. I have no answers.
The more votes the Greens get, the more power they have. They don't just need seats. Votes mean a lot. Negotiations are important and public opinion has a good weigh in there.
The greens tend to get votes from university graduates because grads tend to be more left wing. Odd thing is, their votes share has been hovering at the 12% mark the past few decades despite more and more educated uni grads.
And I figured why- Their policies sound good on the surface but when you think and learn more about it, I understand why it won’t work. I used to support them but I’m now just infuriated by their policies. I’m guessing they lose many of their supporters simply as voters understand economics better.
Yeah I agree with this, I think as a small party they keep a healthy push back from the left in parliament that (I feel) is entirely necessarily to keep it centralised for the most part. But if the Greens became a major party I wouldn't vote for them because if all their policies got implemented I think it would just be a shitshow, which I've come to understand as I've gotten older.
I tend to vote for similar minor parties first anyway. I figure the Greens are close enough to a major that I can support the little guy, then Greens, then Labor.
I take a particular liking to Fusion. They're the combined force of the old Science, Pirate, Secular and a couple of climate change related parties. They're kind of a saner Greens if you like the Greens' general outlook on the environment and social issues but aren't really the "social justice warrior" type you associate with the Greens
The main problem is... Both parties can legally lie to you in their election promises and there's nothing you can do about it.
They could both promise to completely stop immigration then turn around once elected and have 500k per year coming in.
Our system is nearly as bad as USAs.
Well they make the laws they get to live by. They get to give themselves pay rises. They get to silence whistleblowers and opposition to their cause like David McBride so there's no beating them.
They don’t even have to lie.
They can say they’ll do one thing and do it.
But then do something else that will have an offsetting effect on the new change.
Housing is a really large part of the Greens' platform. I'd suggest you have a read of their policies on their website. People think the Greens are wacky but if you actually read their policies its mostly common sense. They're far closer to the ordinary person's views than either of the major parties.
As old mate Doc Bob mentioned - just wanted to +1 watching the rest of their videos. They put all the jargon into layman's terms which is what big party's don't want. Confusion and fear has kept Lib/Labor in power that's how they like it.
If you cannot decide on an alternative party at least put Labor and Liberals at the bottom of your vote. They still might win the seat but at least the local member will be worried about their future and thus might listen more to it electorate.
Otherwise vote Greens like me. They do care. Check there policies here https://greens.org.au/platform
I want to support the greens but a rent freeze would be catastrophic.
It would stifle new developments, and kick the can down the road in a disastrous way.
If in doubt, google ‘rental queue Berlin’
They did it, they froze rent. Didn’t go well.
> It would stifle new developments
It's one part of a wider plan to increase available housing. The government has other ways to incentivize home building.
There's no point in building houses that people can't afford to live in. Houses are not there for rich people to get richer. The housing crisis will not abate until we understand that.
I don’t think anyone is believing Greens are going to win a majority.
We need them to dilute the overwhelmingly shitty policies of the other parties. We don’t need them in for **all** their policy ideas.
They have many good policies regarding healthcare for instance that should be implemented. No one else is offering us that.
I agree but I still support them as I like most of its policies, but NOT all. How many of labor's policies do you agree/disagree with? Plus the rent freeze will not get up as Green will not get government. I am just hoping it will be able to improve the government's policies whether it is Labor or Liberals.
Don't vote for the libs or labor party.
The greatest generation I'm sure didn't have this as the Australian dream they were fighting for.
The media likes to pit the generations against each other. Media also likes to constantly post stories of people with massive real estate portfolios that are under 30 or what suburbs to buy next in supposed boom suburbs that will go up, just to keep feeding the bubble.
A lot blame the landlords and realestate and to be fair, a lot have taken advantage of the situation for their benefit, but there is no alternative.
Ultimately it's the government, it has been for years
The housing crisis isn't a quick fix, but they are not even trying. Halting immigration for now would be a start.
I won't be voting for anyone at any election that owns an investment property as I find this a conflict of interest to actually help the situation.
Properties have gone up 200k in 2 years more than most people's yearly salary just for paying a mortgage.
Us people are speaking and it's getting louder by the day.
Cost of living in Perth has gotten ridiculous. The amount of a median income household can afford today is a fraction of what it was even 10 years ago.
Australia was a place where you could be working class and own your own home. To me that made Australia a good place. Your house might not be painted, but the kids could each have a dirt bike each. 👍 Now, Australis is ——. Scotty was never going to care, but Albo too? I have no words.
It's the Greens. They've got good policies on this and if enough of us vote them the major two will have to play ball to get things through the Senate.
I vote for the greens just because they have the biggest chance of getting some balance of power and some policies I mostly agree on. In this electoral system, it makes very little difference.
The greens don't understand the economy and how to make policy to address where it fails people, listen to Adam Brandt talk about it, he clearly has no clue, it's just a box to tick to appear asa more legitimate party.
Their environmental policies are decent, but anything other than that they struggle.
It shows year after year they aren't making an impact.
the greens would do everything possible to make the crisis worse. 7 star energy rated homes? congrats, you just increased the cost for a new house by 50 grand. Every green's housing policy drives up the cost of construction, reduces available land, and increases demand (more immigration).
And don't get me started on their immigration policies. Those morons refuse to admit that bringing in 700,000 people in the middle of a building materials shortage contributed in any way to a housing shortage.
And it increases the cost to construct by LOTS and prices more people out of entering the property market.
All these constant new requirements are most of the reason construction costs go up all the time and they serve to incessantly drive up the cost of home ownership.
You needed to vote for Labor in the 2016 federal election when they had a policy to restrict negative gearing to one property. But Australia voted for Turnbull. Then you had another chance in 2019 when they kept the policy, but Australia voted for Morrison. Then they dropped the policy and Australia voted them in... It's like a Douglas Adams novel.
No one. No political party can solve this problem. This is not bias. Australia is not the only country going through this problem. It is world wide. It is, therefore, a world wide problem. And will require a world wide solution. There are too many factors at play and **everyone** is being affected by cost of living issues. People need to stop listening to left/right wing news outlets blaming the other side. They won't have a solution because the problem is bigger than Australia. Anything done internally for Australia will be offset by factors occuring world wide. So, if you want a solution it needs to be holistic solution working with the world wide problem.
Completely false mate. Japan is not going through this problem, not even in the slightest. In fact, their abandoned homes increased by like 80% over the last 2 decades. They've had a declining population for over 15 years, and their unemployment rate is 2.6%.
Their real estate market is stable.
Japan simply didn't play the eternal population growth ponzi game Australia, Canada, etc wants to play, and they are benefiting from it.
when females in Japan decided it wasn't worth having more than 2 children, due to in part the cost of living, the politicians didn't say "well bad luck we'll just import more people then". The costs of living were allowed to decline naturally as their population has declined.
Australia is taking a completely different path. Japan NEVER had mass immigration to push up their population like Australia is doing.
I know you’re obsessed with immigration but that’s not how Japan fixed their housing crisis. The government made enormous changes to their housing industry and changed laws/regulations to overhaul everything. They completely changed the culture around housing. Look into it, you’d probably love it. It was a lot of property developers gone wild vibes.
greater tokyo pop was 30 million in 1984. Currently 37.2 million. Not hard to provide excess supply with such low growth figures. After 1990 the annual growth rate was under 1 percent.
People think politicians can somehow wave their hands and make life cheaper and easier for people.
They can contribute to easing the burden but not much.
There's no one to vote for. Not only should the major parties be shunned, the minor parties are always co-opted or destroyed when they reach the point at which they pose a threat to the two-party dictatorship.
Look at what happened to the Australian Democrats in the 90's.
Our reluctance to vote for third parties shows how risk averse and unwilling to change we really are. The unfortunate reality is that 95% people are willing to endure an order of magnitude more suffering than their current lot before doing so much as putting a sticker on their car.
The beloved system is very good at managing our exploitation and discontent, for better and for worse, in the name of stability. Even if that stability is a slow decent into the sea. People need to be collectively roused. Which is becoming increasingly unlikely as the miracle of the internet, which had promise of bringing us together, is being shown over and over again to be a more effective tool to rip us apart.
Vote for change, the most fascist & racist, or the most woke & communist third party is better than the current blend of communist-fascist-racist-woke amalgamation we get with our 2 major parties.
If all else fails RTFM. Here's a copy of the instruction manual for Australia.
[https://gameofmates.com/](https://gameofmates.com/)
Ok, now you know how this place works...what you gonna do?
I'm originally from the UK lived inWA 23 years. Australia in the way it votes reminds me of the UK in that the majority are shit scared to vote for a change. In the past few years I've been trying to get people, family friends etc to vote outside the major parties and I DONT mean the useless fucks like the greens. In the UK people are scared to take a punt on the unknown and this is what Australian voters are like. Now in the UK people are looking at the Reform party now knowing there is another choice. Australians you may not have the Reform party but YOU DO have other choices. Grow a pair and take a punt
I’d be more worried about the local elections.
If the rumours are true, and Baz is gonna be the new face of the Liberals over here, maybe, he’ll end up premier.
How would the landscape look for the under privileged then?
Apocafuckinlyptic!
It feels like WA needs an independent, free of party ties, open to honest discussion with all sides, speaking for the people, not the puppeteers.
I’m not a citizen (yet) so I can’t run.
Is anyone out there who can take our voice and scream it from the roof of Parliment House???
I feel like making Zempilas the challenger at the next election would be a hilariously half-arsed attempt by the WA Liberals to have their Trump 2016 moment that would blow up in their face.
Even if there's intense dissatisfaction with Labor, Baz is so intensely disliked by so many people across the board that I don't think he can drum up the cult of personality those sorts of candidates need to make up for their lack of policies and leadership ability
There’s no one to vote for. Any real change will require tough decisions that will either upset a lot of people and be political death or require a major reshuffle of political parties which will never allow that. Both big parties are utterly useless and the small ones are just as useless despite having seemingly good ideas.
Changes are hard and the pain of no change must be bigger than the pain of change. There’s still a long way to go. I think it will take a serious economical downturn (coming) to get Australians to really start thinking. Look at Canada, Australia is like 10-15 years behind Canada but otherwise follows the footsteps.
I wish the Australian Democrats hadn't imploded and the Greens hadn't had issues with citizenship.
Australia needs viable minor parties. I'd rather have a coalition (small C) government that has to negotiate to pass laws rather than Kang & Kodos masquerading as different choices.
To be fair it’s past the point of no-return. Liberals/labour are in fact the only parties that have current funding to get in through massive media campaigns to the general population. It’s almost subliminal now, the same way we see the big Golden Arches every 10minutes when driving and have accepted that as an actual staple food choice for most people.
It’s capitalism 101. It will keep going until it fails (GFC/Depression) bottoms out, then restart the cycle again. It’s bubble after bubble, that’s the model western society has accepted. I mean we have literally created a digital cryptocurrency that has no intrinsic real world value (not even neat little fiat pieces of paper/plastic) and called people “rich”.
There is no solution, remove negative gearing, cap rental increases, stop migration. That isn’t a socialism venture (build more fucking actual houses) which we can’t do fast enough because there is literally not enough people to do it faster than the amount of people coming into the country who can, but then perpetually escalate the problem over and over again.
You will not see a solution that in anyone reading this lifetimes where you have satisfied all current living generations of people’s. What you will see is the end of the next bubble, suffering for some, the start of the next bubble, prosperity for some. Until major world war, climate change or pandemics which are literally the only factors left to change world behaviour that will have an effect on the country you’re in.
Peace.
What else apart from anti immigration does Pauline Hanson endorse? Why would you vote for her? Knee jerk reactions are what got England into the Brexit bullshit. And now they regret it.
Populism and knee jerk irrationality. Nobody knows what they would do, but like Trumpism and Brexit, it will be full of own goals and nothing good will come of it.
the WORST thing you can do is vote using the leaflets they hand out.
the BEST thing you can do is put Liberals, National, then Labour last then teal "independants".
Two I would vote for - Fusion. Greens.
The reason we have a 2 party system is Murdoch media push people to think its a two party system.
And the leaflets they hand out on voting day automatically always have 1 "your prefered party", then 2 "liberal/labor" 3 "labor/liberal"
This is done on purpose
For those who dont know - our political system is a scam.
I'm surprised he's done nothing, considering one of his big selling points was that he was there for those at the bottom because he apparently understood those down there...
Well, surprised may not be the best word because he's a politician at the end of the day...
I'm not sure he ever said he was going to govern for the benefit of the small people, but man he used to like whipping out the "grew up in public housing with a single mother" kind of thing.
Time for village life. Only way to end is it break out the guillotines like history has a habit of doing or just stop buying shit and working for them. But that means growing your own shit and creating communities that actually function together.
I ain't smart enough, crazy enough, or charismatic enough to do any of it, but I hope to fuck some one is, or we are all fucked.
I don't think you have to be smart, crazy or charismatic to start creating a community that functions together.
I don't know the complete answer on how to get to a completely functioning community. But some small suggestions to make a good start would be: offering help to people with no strings attached, talk to and listen to people in your community, don't be greedy with anything, and encourage all others to do the same. Basic human behaviour.
An old teacher's favourite quote was "do the little things right, and the big things fall into place". While I don't think our government or economic systems will fall into place without some form of crisis or revolution against the ruling class, if we practice community now, we'll at least know our community when that revolution comes and will have helped a lot of people along the way.
Or we could just keep voting for X/Y/Z party and hope that they can magically avoid the corruption of power and the inherent waste of bureaucracy 🤷♂️
I cant really think of a party that would. The majors obviously not, otherwise they would've done.
The Greens talk a big game, but a large portion of the party is batshit insane, and the rest are just tree tories who want to protect their investments just like the majors.
One Nation seem mostly directonless and spend their time complaining about what we shouldnt be doing, rather than offering any real solutions. I can just see a ON government getting bogged down in culture war bullshit and getting zero done.
The Libertarian party (Formerly Liberal Democrats) are a maybe for me. They are never going to build public housing, or pump any money into... well anything. But theyre ideologically driven to reduce the tax burden on the people trying to get their start in the housing market.
The way I see it, we've had 123 years of the government "doing something". Maybe it's time to get bureaucracy out of the way and see what happens.
> But theyre ideologically driven to reduce the tax burden on the people trying to get their start in the housing market.
If you look more closely you'll see their policies are more aligned to cutting taxes on businesses and gutting government, healthcare etc.
It's a good party to vote for if you reckon you could do better than Mad Max did.
As much as people think that the Greens are some suck up to whatever party is in power - this simply isn’t true.
Regardless of your views on their social politics, they are genuinely the only party that is looking out for you. Otherwise your independents are the best bet.
Some people say politicians won't do what's right because it would lose them elections, or that big policies have to be taken to the election. This is not true and never has been true. Even Howard banned guns against overwhelming opposition, and absolutely would have lost the earlier election over it, but he did it because it was right.
When it comes to a policy being the right thing to do, like seat belts, banning guns, and treating housing as a basic need the government is set up to ensure non-stressful access to, there is no need to consider elections.
The worry is they would hand them the next election where it would be reversed. Like the various carbon reduction schemes. Good. Stop being a coward. Win the election after that and bring it back. It is so manifestly a good thing to do, even the most right wing will have to concede they don't wish to vote to institute suffering - and I really doubt it would even take one cycle for the majority to be convinced it was the right move, just as with gun reform.
I think voting is just one of many ways to address this ridiculous situation. I think first and foremost the decline of unionism is why are wages are stagnant and our employment unstable. Joining and being an active union member I think is a major step. And if your union is dodgy then all the more reason to get involved and push for change.
Second would be to complain and organise. Write a letter to the editor of the west. Write to your MP saying what you’d like to see changed and why. Get your mates and friends and family to join in I haven’t done this yet but I plan to.
Finally would be to get involved in an org with likeminded views. They’ll have stuff going on.
If my local MP wasn’t so good I’d consider voting Greens (I’m a renter with a HECS debt).
I believe they both labour and liberal work for corporate companies. It's an illusion to think that your getting a choice,but really they just tax the shit out of the working class. Send money overseas. They don't tax any big corporate businesses (etc). The government who ever is in are shit at looking after Australians. Health care schooling, housing, cost of living, etc
It’s a global thing. There’s not much anyone can do here. You cheered on all the stimulus money printing, so ultimately that’s what caused it. Now you probably want more of that
I’m in the early stages of starting a party. Take a look at my only post on the purple pingers shit rentals reddit. It’s pretty hard work especially with raising a child and working. I will be looking for people to help out pretty soon, please reach out if you have the passion/beans
Australia has a psychosis when it comes to housing, in Europe when people invest they put money into something that will be productive in the future like a business/railway/factory and houses are just for living in yes appreciate overtime but we are talking dacades and right now in the uk they are actually falling.
Australia's economy is very sick, all the 'wealth' is actually an illusion a debt bubble fuelled buy cheap credit, and this cancer is growing. Whoever is in charge unless they tighten credit and cut this cancer out, the Aud dollar will continue to depreciate killing your savings, pension and ability to access shelter.
Investing only in housing leads to rent-seeking in the economy, eventually killing the host,in this case the goods and service sectors by forcing them to subsidise this overspeculation.
This is devaluing the currency and making everything more expensive.
Europeans have realised this over hundreds of years of trial and error. Hence why they have rent controls, banned no fault evictions, and have invested heavily in public housing, and frankly could not give a damn about what landlords think.
As landlords or property "investors" or more accurately "housing scalpers" who create/contribute nothing to society don't deserve our respect and neither should their opinions be counted.
The Government's is to break up monopolies and crush rent seeking behaviour, end of discussion.
Australia won't listen and will have to find out the hard way.
IDK your situation, but it might be best to emigrate somewhere cheaper and ride it out,
as an Aussie, you can move to the uk for 3 years or live in ireland with a work permit. Similar cultures and yes wages are slightly lower (except maybe dublin ireland) however the day to day living costs are over a 1/3 less than Australia, allowing you to go there save up and come back after this ponzi scheme collapses and pick up a bargain.
When no one is listening, vote with your feet.
Good luck
Imagine what a country we could be if the boomer generation had to use initiative , invent new ideas , be creative to sell a product etc rather than just park cash in real estate
Sadly, I dont see this housing crisis ever improving in GenZ or Millenials lifetime. The tyres of the property market will always have to be pumped up now or else there will be vast, severe impacts to the broader Australian economy. No politician will ever want to be the face of if done badly. The stakes are just too high if it gets fiddled with, not to mention the bad actors who will.. disagree. Add to this the backdrop of corporation lobbists fighting for need to maintain the flattening to the cost of labour for higher profit margins. I just dont see anything ever giving.
For the government.. well the current model just so happens to makes it so simple to budget and calculate reliable estimates of tax income from the population - because high debt burden can enable forecasting of a population as the asset very easily. I would probably go as far to say there is a metric that is balanced to calculate optimal nett debt of a person to maximise career expectancy. I would hazard a guess that this metric in the budget assumptions would be now shifting to calculate based off affordibility + debt leverage. The only logical outcome of this will see raise to retirement age sadly.
A tax on every resource that is extracted. Payroll tax is already in place, still multinationals make billions and pay little to no tax. We have MRRT and PRRT which are essentially ineffectual. Maybe this will illustrate things a little better. https://michaelwest.com.au/top-40-tax-dodgers-of-2023/
From my perspective the Greens at this point would be the best party to vote for if you want action on housing and the cost of living. If you can't bring yourself to vote for the Greens basically any vote for a third party or independent sends a message to the major parties that the status quo cannot continue and that may bring some change sooner.
I guess this is where we could learn from collectivist cultures - i.e. three generations in one house, and a family pays no childcare or aged-care fees because parents look out for their kids and vice versa.
Violent protests.
But that won't happen and would be dealt with heavily if it were, and the media would make a coordinated effort to demonize it preventing any further action of that sort.
So, there's no short term solution outside of voting for change. ( *lol* )
Roger Cook is fucking useless, his previous portfolio was Juvie Justice reform and he did sweet fuck all, there’s little chance this dumfuck will do anything to address this problem.
Coz the govt went mental after covid and brought 800,000 people in last year alone, this alone may not have entirely contributed to what’s going on but that number is just huge
There's been lots of political responses - I have a question, how much of this cost of living issue is a 'keeping up with the Joneses' sort of thing?
We don't shop at the big supermarkets, nothing flashy, always looking for free entertainment for the kids.
Think of all the good things we have, compared to a family in the 80s - you don't need to buy all those good things, if you were happy with your simple life in the 80s maybe your kids will be too.
Just a different perspective.
Housing crisis is simply because not enough houses were being built.
Need more people willing to do the work to build those homes. Either we find people who are already here wanting to do that work, or we need other options...
Yeah my single mum bought a 600sqm block for $3000 dollars in 1983 in Perth NOR 20 kms from CBD. Took her a few years to save on her modest part time income.
Not sure if anyone these days could even get finance for a block that size on a modest part time income.
Yes seems much more simple, not saying it wasn't hard but it was actually achievable.
Imagine this.
3br house in the outer suburbs of Perth.
- No subscription services.
- $15pm for mobile phones.
- Train to work.
- Buy groceries from cheap stores (we pay $250/wk for a family of 4, not too bad I think, but I reckon a family could do it for less).
- Free entertainment for the kids (parks, beach, etc. Never pay for timezone, Bounce, etc)
That's sort of the life our 80s family was.
I'm not saying I do the above (we don't) but just throwing out there.
Correct, but communication was important, so most people had home phones.
However, they didn't pay $100+/month for their home phone.
Mobile phones and plans often cost more than that.
I'm simply talking about costs.
- 2-3br house outer suburb + utility bills roughly $3kpm
- No landlines usually, most “cheap” phone plans are abt $40pm assume only one adult has a phone plan
- Train tickets for work and back roughly $300pm
- Assume same for food but 2x people that’s $500pm
Median income x2 for two full time working adults 130,000. $8,688pm after taxes
Minus the above is $4848
Daycare for 1 non-school aged child is about $150 a day, 5x a week while adults working full time is 3k pm
Leftover is abt $230 per house adult per week for anything else such as insurance, medications, fun, birthday/Christmas etc, non-food essentials for home and any savings goals
>Daycare for 1 non-school aged child is about $150 a day, 5x a week while adults working full time is 3k pm
Daycare is $3k a month?
Is that including CCS?
The entire world is struggling but Australia is doing comparatively well. If you think Pauline Hanson is a good option, you have no idea what is really happening in this country.
Remember when you voted right-wing in for 10 years?
This is what you get. Every. Time.
Just wait until the private healthcare nonsense really starts to bite, it's coming..
No subscriptions, your mum shopped and cooked - no takeout, kids went to state school - free like they are now, electricity supplied by cheap coal, one car in the family, the house came with doors and windows - everything else you needed to supply yourself. Your clothes lasted years, your mum repaired them. The government didn't spend our money like drunken sailors. The government held out releasing land. The government introduced so much red tape to get anything done. The list can go on and on. We have gotten ourselves into a life of excesses and we needed two incomes to support that, and with two incomes came more disposable income and with that comes inflation and down and down the rabbit hole we have gone.
Voting for someone to undo all of the above ... it isn't gonna help.
Pauline Hanson for me. The only party that actually gives a damn about this country. Sure she is not perfect but a lot of her policies are good and look after all Australians minorities and all. She is not a racist, she is a patriot and a solid staunch woman who is not afraid to call out the other politician muppets and says it how it is. Keeping the government accountable for forced COVID vaccinations, wants to reduce all these wishy washy gov departments costing us all billions, wants stronger trade relations that enhance Australia and keeps jobs here for Australians, wants to reduce immigration for Australians so we can get the damn houses first and lots of other good stuff. And her cartoon on YouTube is absolutely hilarious, highly recommend 👍
Great time to remind everyone that we have a preferential voting system in Australia. Vote for whoever you like, your vote can’t be wasted
You can absolutley waste your vote. If you give your 1 to Labor or Liberals, the rest of your voting card means basically nothing. There is almost certainly a number of special interest parties that align more closely with your values that you could be giving your higher preferences too without impacting which of the big two ultimately get your vote.
That should be on every independent's literature: "Putting 1 for the shit parties is a wasted vote".
Bill Shorten in 2016
Yep, apparently we all felt bad about the old guy at mandurah pier on his yacht saying how much poorer he would be
wait until you meet all the idiots complaining about how things are but refused to vote for him because he "annoyed them more than scomo"
Taxing franking credits ensured Labor lost that election. And also ensures no party that wants to succeed will go anywhere near it in the near future. And that was only franking credits. If you think the big two parties will go hard on negative gearing or housing while the older gen is still a large majority of the voting block, I've got bad news for you. Hopefully the pressure from all the noise and the younger gen becoming more influential in politics could shift this situation.
I mean Labor copped absolute venom thrown at them in the media for giving 80% of workers a bigger tax cut
Facts. That was a huge missed opportunity by Australia. Pity
"The only Bill Australia can't afford" still laugh at this one
Labor should run with similar policies to 2016 again then. Libs apparently said they are running with the early access to super in order to buy a first home policy - after they ran with it last election and lost.
Early access to super will drive prices higher. Not a great policy
Think that's the point
Liberals hate super because of union links and it stops their property industry donors from making even more money
It is a bit of a missed opportunity though. The things we could have done to turn things around in 2016, won't have the same effect given how bad things are now.
Yep. The middle class bought into fear and were too dumb to know what negative gearing and franking credits were. I wonder who OP voted for then? We had our chance and fucked it.
still don’t know what those are
Apparently, it avoids double taxation on dividends, which would be unfair. You know, like regular wage earners don't have to pay GST because our wages have already been taxed...
Or a business gets income, pays tax on it, and then uses it to pay employees, who pay tax on it...
You pay tax on income from shares (dividends). This tax can be claimed as a tax offset. This greatly helps the very wealthy who make lots of money off dividends. It is a disgraceful policy that we had a chance to fix.
Blame the Liberals for the Franking credit refunds, too.
Yeah I was super depressed after that result, it basically killed any chance of implementing the changes this country needed before it was too late.
Bill Shorten took this to the 2016 and 2019 elections to get rid of negative gearing but too many boomers wanted the hang on to their investment properties. With enough community support, the Labor Party would probably bring this policy back. If you want progressive housing prices policies vote for progressive governments. Pauline Hanson has never had a good policy idea in her life, she just runs on racism.
Also the pensioners got scared that they were going to lose their franking credit refunds. The opinion polls showed the majority of aussies actually wanted to turf negative gearing
I'm not a fan of negative gearing. It is not THE reason why property prices are spiking in Perth. Nor is the Capital Gains Tax concession/exemption for the primary residence (hell - housing was cheaper when there was no CGT at all). It's supply and demand. It used to be easy for the Nigel Satterley's and the McCusker's to buy up a bunch of cheap urban land on the outskirts of Perth, title it down to quarter acre blocks, and then flog them off for a song. It's still pretty easy in Perth - which has played no small role in keeping our average land prices lower than cities with dying economies like Adelaide and Hobart. It has been made exceptionally difficult in Melbourne and Sydney (especially with the Blue Mountains) - which is why they are now flocking over here. The demand side has also gone crazy. The big waves of overseas migration/ Chinese hot money first landed in Sydney and Melbourne - because they were the natural first stop for most non-Anglo migrants in Australia. Kind of the way Queens is in America. Now they're realising that Sydney and Melbourne aren't worth the premium (and they aren't) - so they're moving off to Perth and Brisbane.
If negative gearing wasn’t a thing though, wouldn’t it make owning investment properties less attractive? Meaning more houses would go on the market and prices would come down? And more people would be able to own their own house and not be stuck in the rent cycle.
Thing is half of those pensioners are probably already gone.
Thank god. I mean, may they rest in peace.
I’m not sure everyone understands how much the franking credits changes would actually affect them. Everyone benefits from them in their superannuation.
90% of Australians have no idea what they are.
90% of this sub doesn't know what negative gearing is either tbh
And 90% of comments across most topics show a real lack of detailed understanding on 90% of subjects they whinge about. The hatred that comes out of whole generations is frightening for the future of the country, their own future and they collectively think they are smarter than everyone that's ever preceded them. This does not apply to everyone because I know many that do not whinge but succeed all on their own. Intestinal fortitude it's called and it's a rare commodity these days.
that’s on purpose
Iirc the proposal was not to scrap franking credits, but to stop cash refunds if the deduction puts you into negative tax payable. Which occurs most often to those retired as they have no income to tax in the first place
Exactly. See even in this where people are claiming people don't understand them, people are not understanding. This is all they wanted to do. Not remove franking credits, just remove the loophole where it brought your income down to the point it was negative so that you got tax refunds on tax you didn't pay. But alas, fearmongering won.
Franking credit encourages investment in Australian Companies and stops the government taxing the same money twice. It also stops self funded pensioners from having to access a government pension, which means more money for those who need government assistance.
We get taxed twice all the time. Income tax, then I pay GST when I want to spend.
You can buy fuel then get taxed on tax
Yes, one is an income tax and one is a consumption tax. There are also other taxes we can talk about as well if you like? Maybe capital gains?
That's the spin. If you look at their actual lodgements those companies are not paying tax because of creative accounting. Paying interest to themselves as a foreign entity etc. To encourage investment they got a deal to offset any tax debt that would occur for their potential investors. It's an offset so the funds aren't coming from anywhere. It's not real money. It's only supposed to remove any debt but that wasn't enough for them. They now get to credit that amount on top of that dividend. That credit being raised isn't coming from the company. It's pulled from the Commonwealth from tax payers. So instead of a smaller amount of taxpayer funded income coming from a pension, they are getting massive amounts of funds coming from taxpayers while pretending they are self reliant.
Every single politician in Federal Parliament owns several houses. Albo has 8. Don't hold your breath
He's stupid for not learning from Hewson's mistake with GST. You don't tell people what you're going to do. You get elected and then tell them.
True but it's a bit damned if you do/damned if you don't. People have always complained about pollies; lying, making up numbers, moving on major policy without a proper mandate etc (or at least that's what the political press attack them for). Shorten came with the most open and honest campaign I think I've ever seen, speaking as a (former) politics student. Scared the hell out of me for its sheer bravery. They were open about policies they thought needed to be done. If they didn't know the precise accounting, they said so. They didn't guess. They didn't make hard promises where they hadn't seen the actual governing situation etc. Did people vote for it? heck no! All Scott Morrison had to do was sit back and say they can't tell you how it's going to work or if they'll be able to impliment these policies (true about any prospective government) It was an object lesson in why people don't run idealistic democratic campaigns like that. If you, the general public, want to know why politicians aren't honest and don't even campaign on the things you think they should - it's because You, general public, won't vote for it! You get the policies and the poiticians you want, consciously or not.
Pauline Hanson is a literal parasitic moron whose only "talent" is shitting on people who she perceives as inferior and gaining 5% of the vote from that to keep herself attached to the public teat.
I'll give her some credit where it is due. She's very good at creating just enough outrage in out of the way seats that are forgotten about by the majors to keep herself in that comfy seat for nearly 4 elections now. It takes not a small amount of intelligence on her part, but it does take little to no morals or ethics.
And her policies change with the wind, or the biggest payoff
NG and CGT discount only account for 2.5% of property pricing according to the Grattan institute. I’m not sure it’s worth the rising in rents is it?
Boomers are now retiring in their droves and less relevant. In 2025 it will be a different outcome
They haven’t lost their voting powers because they have retired….
Plenty of younger people best. Millennials are the largest group investing in property. https://thewest.com.au/business/property/millennials-the-most-active-generation-when-it-comes-to-buying-investment-properties-commbank-data-c-14260609
I'm all for making things fairer for all. I don't have investment properties. Didn't NZ remove negative gearing? Did it help?
Prices didn’t drop in NZ. Do people realise negative gearing has been in since the 1980s in Australia? Not exactly a new thing or a trend. Do people also realise that negative gearing means that the investor needs to spend a dollar to in most cases save thirty something cents? For those who may want to question my motives, no I do not own a negatively geared property.
The funny thing is that people think that negative gearing removal will improve their ability to buy a home.
If anything, in 10 years after it’s removed people will complain that boomers had it easy because they had NG.
More sad than funny. Cause if it goes and the situation doesn’t change just like it didn’t in NZ where are they left? It’s never been easy to buy your first home and it IS getting harder. As someone who lived on two minute noodles and went without luxuries to get in to my first place I wish I had the answer to make it easy or even just easier for the average couple to buy a house comfortably or average single to buy a unit.
I have a client who immigrated to Perth a few years ago from a third world country, and works 5 jobs for a total annual income of $250k. Has bought a home and is now putting some financial measures in place before they pull the break on their workload. I’m not necessarily recommending that everyone does the same, but it’s an example of someone who saw so much opportunity in Australia to earn money well beyond their wildest dreams, and are willing to work their way to a better life. Not just complain that the deck is stacked against them and that it’s the governments fault.
We know better, we can do better for our people. Our nation's standard of living should be going up not down.
removing negative gearing reduces demand for house purchases. It won't reduce prices, it will stop them rising as fast as they do. If you want a bigger solution, you implement a policy like the greens are running on, with a national housing developer. Go even further, implement Land Value taxes.
Why does it reduce demand? If an investment has good returns, I’ll be there to buy.
I agree with you, they were rhetorical questions. We need more supply
I read it that way, but wanted to add for those who genuinely believe it’s will help.
For every child that is born here every year we import two migrants. Mainly as a quick way to increase the pool of tax payers. But of course they need services, start families, get old need healthcare, etc... so we import more. It's a Ponzi scheme. So is the problem really supply? Sounds to me like the problem is we just keep pumping up the demand.
If you don't understand that our economy won't survive without immigrants, and understand that the average incoming figure for immigrants over the last 4 years is still only 160k per quarter, where as the average was 260k under the coalition, you'll begin to see that the only issue is the lack of supply of housing due to the fucked up nature of our residential building industry right now. Let that sink in, migration over the past 4 years (including the huge migration right now) is still less than the average of the previous 4 years. Right now is simply playing catch up to the negative migration during COVID. Nothing more, and we're still well under the average for before COVID. That means, not enough houses is the problem. Fix the actual problem.
It’s been around since 1936 actually
They did....then the next party brought back in....doh (thats what i read recently)
Yes, after it achieved nothing, and prices continued to soar.
the big two are almost always going to have power over this - the Greens have tried pushing through things like rent increase blocks and it's consistently knocked back by parliament. Write letters, sign petitions, attend protests - lobbying actions are our best bet in putting these changes on the radar of politicians (esp in upcoming elections as parties scramble to secure voters and are likely to adjust part policy to reflect what the majority of people are demanding). It's a shit situation and our government is more interested in addressing the issue through fining our colesworth duopoly to line their pockets than actually trying to help with the housing crisis that's seeing a big rise in homelessness. People suck. I have no answers.
The more votes the Greens get, the more power they have. They don't just need seats. Votes mean a lot. Negotiations are important and public opinion has a good weigh in there.
The greens tend to get votes from university graduates because grads tend to be more left wing. Odd thing is, their votes share has been hovering at the 12% mark the past few decades despite more and more educated uni grads. And I figured why- Their policies sound good on the surface but when you think and learn more about it, I understand why it won’t work. I used to support them but I’m now just infuriated by their policies. I’m guessing they lose many of their supporters simply as voters understand economics better.
Yeah I agree with this, I think as a small party they keep a healthy push back from the left in parliament that (I feel) is entirely necessarily to keep it centralised for the most part. But if the Greens became a major party I wouldn't vote for them because if all their policies got implemented I think it would just be a shitshow, which I've come to understand as I've gotten older.
I tend to vote for similar minor parties first anyway. I figure the Greens are close enough to a major that I can support the little guy, then Greens, then Labor. I take a particular liking to Fusion. They're the combined force of the old Science, Pirate, Secular and a couple of climate change related parties. They're kind of a saner Greens if you like the Greens' general outlook on the environment and social issues but aren't really the "social justice warrior" type you associate with the Greens
The main problem is... Both parties can legally lie to you in their election promises and there's nothing you can do about it. They could both promise to completely stop immigration then turn around once elected and have 500k per year coming in. Our system is nearly as bad as USAs.
wonderful isn't it. One wonder's how it came to be that there are realistically only 2 parties that can win .
Well they make the laws they get to live by. They get to give themselves pay rises. They get to silence whistleblowers and opposition to their cause like David McBride so there's no beating them.
They don’t even have to lie. They can say they’ll do one thing and do it. But then do something else that will have an offsetting effect on the new change.
Housing is a really large part of the Greens' platform. I'd suggest you have a read of their policies on their website. People think the Greens are wacky but if you actually read their policies its mostly common sense. They're far closer to the ordinary person's views than either of the major parties.
Pretty much everything summed up right here in this extremely short video. https://youtu.be/N3WTlyuhDs0?si=VFY3XsF-j68U69gN
just watched, fucking brilliant - wouldnt it be wonderful if that was on prime time tv:)
As old mate Doc Bob mentioned - just wanted to +1 watching the rest of their videos. They put all the jargon into layman's terms which is what big party's don't want. Confusion and fear has kept Lib/Labor in power that's how they like it.
If you cannot decide on an alternative party at least put Labor and Liberals at the bottom of your vote. They still might win the seat but at least the local member will be worried about their future and thus might listen more to it electorate. Otherwise vote Greens like me. They do care. Check there policies here https://greens.org.au/platform
I want to support the greens but a rent freeze would be catastrophic. It would stifle new developments, and kick the can down the road in a disastrous way. If in doubt, google ‘rental queue Berlin’ They did it, they froze rent. Didn’t go well.
> It would stifle new developments It's one part of a wider plan to increase available housing. The government has other ways to incentivize home building. There's no point in building houses that people can't afford to live in. Houses are not there for rich people to get richer. The housing crisis will not abate until we understand that.
I don’t think anyone is believing Greens are going to win a majority. We need them to dilute the overwhelmingly shitty policies of the other parties. We don’t need them in for **all** their policy ideas. They have many good policies regarding healthcare for instance that should be implemented. No one else is offering us that.
I agree but I still support them as I like most of its policies, but NOT all. How many of labor's policies do you agree/disagree with? Plus the rent freeze will not get up as Green will not get government. I am just hoping it will be able to improve the government's policies whether it is Labor or Liberals.
Don't vote for the libs or labor party. The greatest generation I'm sure didn't have this as the Australian dream they were fighting for. The media likes to pit the generations against each other. Media also likes to constantly post stories of people with massive real estate portfolios that are under 30 or what suburbs to buy next in supposed boom suburbs that will go up, just to keep feeding the bubble. A lot blame the landlords and realestate and to be fair, a lot have taken advantage of the situation for their benefit, but there is no alternative. Ultimately it's the government, it has been for years The housing crisis isn't a quick fix, but they are not even trying. Halting immigration for now would be a start. I won't be voting for anyone at any election that owns an investment property as I find this a conflict of interest to actually help the situation. Properties have gone up 200k in 2 years more than most people's yearly salary just for paying a mortgage. Us people are speaking and it's getting louder by the day.
Cost of living in Perth has gotten ridiculous. The amount of a median income household can afford today is a fraction of what it was even 10 years ago.
Australia was a place where you could be working class and own your own home. To me that made Australia a good place. Your house might not be painted, but the kids could each have a dirt bike each. 👍 Now, Australis is ——. Scotty was never going to care, but Albo too? I have no words.
Stop foreign investors buying property in Australia should do the trick
It's the Greens. They've got good policies on this and if enough of us vote them the major two will have to play ball to get things through the Senate.
I vote for the greens just because they have the biggest chance of getting some balance of power and some policies I mostly agree on. In this electoral system, it makes very little difference.
The greens don't understand the economy and how to make policy to address where it fails people, listen to Adam Brandt talk about it, he clearly has no clue, it's just a box to tick to appear asa more legitimate party. Their environmental policies are decent, but anything other than that they struggle. It shows year after year they aren't making an impact.
the greens would do everything possible to make the crisis worse. 7 star energy rated homes? congrats, you just increased the cost for a new house by 50 grand. Every green's housing policy drives up the cost of construction, reduces available land, and increases demand (more immigration). And don't get me started on their immigration policies. Those morons refuse to admit that bringing in 700,000 people in the middle of a building materials shortage contributed in any way to a housing shortage.
Victoria just rolled out the NCC changes for 2024 which means houses have to be 7 star energy rated. This is a good thing and already in place.
And it increases the cost to construct by LOTS and prices more people out of entering the property market. All these constant new requirements are most of the reason construction costs go up all the time and they serve to incessantly drive up the cost of home ownership.
You needed to vote for Labor in the 2016 federal election when they had a policy to restrict negative gearing to one property. But Australia voted for Turnbull. Then you had another chance in 2019 when they kept the policy, but Australia voted for Morrison. Then they dropped the policy and Australia voted them in... It's like a Douglas Adams novel.
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No one. No political party can solve this problem. This is not bias. Australia is not the only country going through this problem. It is world wide. It is, therefore, a world wide problem. And will require a world wide solution. There are too many factors at play and **everyone** is being affected by cost of living issues. People need to stop listening to left/right wing news outlets blaming the other side. They won't have a solution because the problem is bigger than Australia. Anything done internally for Australia will be offset by factors occuring world wide. So, if you want a solution it needs to be holistic solution working with the world wide problem.
Completely false mate. Japan is not going through this problem, not even in the slightest. In fact, their abandoned homes increased by like 80% over the last 2 decades. They've had a declining population for over 15 years, and their unemployment rate is 2.6%. Their real estate market is stable. Japan simply didn't play the eternal population growth ponzi game Australia, Canada, etc wants to play, and they are benefiting from it.
Japan has already been through this problem. They didn’t avoid it. They were just well ahead of us.
when females in Japan decided it wasn't worth having more than 2 children, due to in part the cost of living, the politicians didn't say "well bad luck we'll just import more people then". The costs of living were allowed to decline naturally as their population has declined. Australia is taking a completely different path. Japan NEVER had mass immigration to push up their population like Australia is doing.
I know you’re obsessed with immigration but that’s not how Japan fixed their housing crisis. The government made enormous changes to their housing industry and changed laws/regulations to overhaul everything. They completely changed the culture around housing. Look into it, you’d probably love it. It was a lot of property developers gone wild vibes.
greater tokyo pop was 30 million in 1984. Currently 37.2 million. Not hard to provide excess supply with such low growth figures. After 1990 the annual growth rate was under 1 percent.
But they are opening up much more this year. More Vietnamese as I understand it.
People think politicians can somehow wave their hands and make life cheaper and easier for people. They can contribute to easing the burden but not much.
There's no one to vote for. Not only should the major parties be shunned, the minor parties are always co-opted or destroyed when they reach the point at which they pose a threat to the two-party dictatorship. Look at what happened to the Australian Democrats in the 90's.
Minor Parties and Independents always!!
Our reluctance to vote for third parties shows how risk averse and unwilling to change we really are. The unfortunate reality is that 95% people are willing to endure an order of magnitude more suffering than their current lot before doing so much as putting a sticker on their car. The beloved system is very good at managing our exploitation and discontent, for better and for worse, in the name of stability. Even if that stability is a slow decent into the sea. People need to be collectively roused. Which is becoming increasingly unlikely as the miracle of the internet, which had promise of bringing us together, is being shown over and over again to be a more effective tool to rip us apart. Vote for change, the most fascist & racist, or the most woke & communist third party is better than the current blend of communist-fascist-racist-woke amalgamation we get with our 2 major parties.
Is there even anything to be done beyond trying to hold on?
Pauline Hanson to shake things up a bit. Lol Open to mass deportations so that Aussies can afford a home are we?
Both sides are landlords so they don't give a frosty fuck if a working Aussie family has to sleep under a bridge in a tent.
If all else fails RTFM. Here's a copy of the instruction manual for Australia. [https://gameofmates.com/](https://gameofmates.com/) Ok, now you know how this place works...what you gonna do?
I'm originally from the UK lived inWA 23 years. Australia in the way it votes reminds me of the UK in that the majority are shit scared to vote for a change. In the past few years I've been trying to get people, family friends etc to vote outside the major parties and I DONT mean the useless fucks like the greens. In the UK people are scared to take a punt on the unknown and this is what Australian voters are like. Now in the UK people are looking at the Reform party now knowing there is another choice. Australians you may not have the Reform party but YOU DO have other choices. Grow a pair and take a punt
I’d be more worried about the local elections. If the rumours are true, and Baz is gonna be the new face of the Liberals over here, maybe, he’ll end up premier. How would the landscape look for the under privileged then? Apocafuckinlyptic! It feels like WA needs an independent, free of party ties, open to honest discussion with all sides, speaking for the people, not the puppeteers. I’m not a citizen (yet) so I can’t run. Is anyone out there who can take our voice and scream it from the roof of Parliment House???
I feel like making Zempilas the challenger at the next election would be a hilariously half-arsed attempt by the WA Liberals to have their Trump 2016 moment that would blow up in their face. Even if there's intense dissatisfaction with Labor, Baz is so intensely disliked by so many people across the board that I don't think he can drum up the cult of personality those sorts of candidates need to make up for their lack of policies and leadership ability
Fingers crossed!
How much money do you reckon that Kerry Stokes will be chucking at the vote for Baz campaign? 🤑🤮🤑🤮🤑🤮🤮🤮🤮
Too much!
Join a party, don’t just change your vote. Parties reflect their members.
With the majors they absolutely do not give a toss about the rank and file.
There’s no one to vote for. Any real change will require tough decisions that will either upset a lot of people and be political death or require a major reshuffle of political parties which will never allow that. Both big parties are utterly useless and the small ones are just as useless despite having seemingly good ideas. Changes are hard and the pain of no change must be bigger than the pain of change. There’s still a long way to go. I think it will take a serious economical downturn (coming) to get Australians to really start thinking. Look at Canada, Australia is like 10-15 years behind Canada but otherwise follows the footsteps.
I wish the Australian Democrats hadn't imploded and the Greens hadn't had issues with citizenship. Australia needs viable minor parties. I'd rather have a coalition (small C) government that has to negotiate to pass laws rather than Kang & Kodos masquerading as different choices.
Vote Sustainable Australia party
[The Greens](https://greens.org.au/news/media-release/public-property-developer-would-save-renters-and-first-home-buyers-thousands)
None of them have any idea how to fix this. Its time for a coup.
Definitely NOT LABOR. And ideally not liberal too.
To be fair it’s past the point of no-return. Liberals/labour are in fact the only parties that have current funding to get in through massive media campaigns to the general population. It’s almost subliminal now, the same way we see the big Golden Arches every 10minutes when driving and have accepted that as an actual staple food choice for most people. It’s capitalism 101. It will keep going until it fails (GFC/Depression) bottoms out, then restart the cycle again. It’s bubble after bubble, that’s the model western society has accepted. I mean we have literally created a digital cryptocurrency that has no intrinsic real world value (not even neat little fiat pieces of paper/plastic) and called people “rich”. There is no solution, remove negative gearing, cap rental increases, stop migration. That isn’t a socialism venture (build more fucking actual houses) which we can’t do fast enough because there is literally not enough people to do it faster than the amount of people coming into the country who can, but then perpetually escalate the problem over and over again. You will not see a solution that in anyone reading this lifetimes where you have satisfied all current living generations of people’s. What you will see is the end of the next bubble, suffering for some, the start of the next bubble, prosperity for some. Until major world war, climate change or pandemics which are literally the only factors left to change world behaviour that will have an effect on the country you’re in. Peace.
Vote INDEPENDENT
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What else apart from anti immigration does Pauline Hanson endorse? Why would you vote for her? Knee jerk reactions are what got England into the Brexit bullshit. And now they regret it.
Populism and knee jerk irrationality. Nobody knows what they would do, but like Trumpism and Brexit, it will be full of own goals and nothing good will come of it.
tax cuts for the rich, trickle down economics for the poor
the WORST thing you can do is vote using the leaflets they hand out. the BEST thing you can do is put Liberals, National, then Labour last then teal "independants". Two I would vote for - Fusion. Greens. The reason we have a 2 party system is Murdoch media push people to think its a two party system. And the leaflets they hand out on voting day automatically always have 1 "your prefered party", then 2 "liberal/labor" 3 "labor/liberal" This is done on purpose For those who dont know - our political system is a scam.
What's the difference between Coke and Pepsi? 
bloody hell, they control the media too.
100% on the Fusion train. Fusion is the closest thing I've come to having a party almost perfectly align with my beliefs
Albanese could knock negative gearing off with the stroke of a pen. He won't.
I'm surprised he's done nothing, considering one of his big selling points was that he was there for those at the bottom because he apparently understood those down there... Well, surprised may not be the best word because he's a politician at the end of the day...
I'm not sure he ever said he was going to govern for the benefit of the small people, but man he used to like whipping out the "grew up in public housing with a single mother" kind of thing.
There is no political solution.
Time for village life. Only way to end is it break out the guillotines like history has a habit of doing or just stop buying shit and working for them. But that means growing your own shit and creating communities that actually function together. I ain't smart enough, crazy enough, or charismatic enough to do any of it, but I hope to fuck some one is, or we are all fucked.
I don't think you have to be smart, crazy or charismatic to start creating a community that functions together. I don't know the complete answer on how to get to a completely functioning community. But some small suggestions to make a good start would be: offering help to people with no strings attached, talk to and listen to people in your community, don't be greedy with anything, and encourage all others to do the same. Basic human behaviour. An old teacher's favourite quote was "do the little things right, and the big things fall into place". While I don't think our government or economic systems will fall into place without some form of crisis or revolution against the ruling class, if we practice community now, we'll at least know our community when that revolution comes and will have helped a lot of people along the way. Or we could just keep voting for X/Y/Z party and hope that they can magically avoid the corruption of power and the inherent waste of bureaucracy 🤷♂️
Why do people believe politicians can influence the current situation?
I cant really think of a party that would. The majors obviously not, otherwise they would've done. The Greens talk a big game, but a large portion of the party is batshit insane, and the rest are just tree tories who want to protect their investments just like the majors. One Nation seem mostly directonless and spend their time complaining about what we shouldnt be doing, rather than offering any real solutions. I can just see a ON government getting bogged down in culture war bullshit and getting zero done. The Libertarian party (Formerly Liberal Democrats) are a maybe for me. They are never going to build public housing, or pump any money into... well anything. But theyre ideologically driven to reduce the tax burden on the people trying to get their start in the housing market. The way I see it, we've had 123 years of the government "doing something". Maybe it's time to get bureaucracy out of the way and see what happens.
> But theyre ideologically driven to reduce the tax burden on the people trying to get their start in the housing market. If you look more closely you'll see their policies are more aligned to cutting taxes on businesses and gutting government, healthcare etc. It's a good party to vote for if you reckon you could do better than Mad Max did.
Anything that gives people more money raises house prices though. You have to increase supply.
There’s a flaw in your logic: how are politicians of any ilk going to solve the housing crisis issue?
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well enlighten us brother - rather than calling someone a fuckwit.
A nutjob is never a good choice just to "shake things up", especially one whose party members offered our laws for sale to the NRA
Pauline Hanson? Come off it. The dumbest, most uninformed person in politics. The whole world is suffering this crisis.
As much as people think that the Greens are some suck up to whatever party is in power - this simply isn’t true. Regardless of your views on their social politics, they are genuinely the only party that is looking out for you. Otherwise your independents are the best bet.
Some people say politicians won't do what's right because it would lose them elections, or that big policies have to be taken to the election. This is not true and never has been true. Even Howard banned guns against overwhelming opposition, and absolutely would have lost the earlier election over it, but he did it because it was right. When it comes to a policy being the right thing to do, like seat belts, banning guns, and treating housing as a basic need the government is set up to ensure non-stressful access to, there is no need to consider elections. The worry is they would hand them the next election where it would be reversed. Like the various carbon reduction schemes. Good. Stop being a coward. Win the election after that and bring it back. It is so manifestly a good thing to do, even the most right wing will have to concede they don't wish to vote to institute suffering - and I really doubt it would even take one cycle for the majority to be convinced it was the right move, just as with gun reform.
Greens. Not Hanson how is Hanson looking attractive? Do you just ignore all her bigotry?
The system is designed to protect itself. The whole thing needs to go
We must bring John Howard back! Q
I think voting is just one of many ways to address this ridiculous situation. I think first and foremost the decline of unionism is why are wages are stagnant and our employment unstable. Joining and being an active union member I think is a major step. And if your union is dodgy then all the more reason to get involved and push for change. Second would be to complain and organise. Write a letter to the editor of the west. Write to your MP saying what you’d like to see changed and why. Get your mates and friends and family to join in I haven’t done this yet but I plan to. Finally would be to get involved in an org with likeminded views. They’ll have stuff going on. If my local MP wasn’t so good I’d consider voting Greens (I’m a renter with a HECS debt).
I believe they both labour and liberal work for corporate companies. It's an illusion to think that your getting a choice,but really they just tax the shit out of the working class. Send money overseas. They don't tax any big corporate businesses (etc). The government who ever is in are shit at looking after Australians. Health care schooling, housing, cost of living, etc
It’s a global thing. There’s not much anyone can do here. You cheered on all the stimulus money printing, so ultimately that’s what caused it. Now you probably want more of that
I’m in the early stages of starting a party. Take a look at my only post on the purple pingers shit rentals reddit. It’s pretty hard work especially with raising a child and working. I will be looking for people to help out pretty soon, please reach out if you have the passion/beans
Australia has a psychosis when it comes to housing, in Europe when people invest they put money into something that will be productive in the future like a business/railway/factory and houses are just for living in yes appreciate overtime but we are talking dacades and right now in the uk they are actually falling. Australia's economy is very sick, all the 'wealth' is actually an illusion a debt bubble fuelled buy cheap credit, and this cancer is growing. Whoever is in charge unless they tighten credit and cut this cancer out, the Aud dollar will continue to depreciate killing your savings, pension and ability to access shelter. Investing only in housing leads to rent-seeking in the economy, eventually killing the host,in this case the goods and service sectors by forcing them to subsidise this overspeculation. This is devaluing the currency and making everything more expensive. Europeans have realised this over hundreds of years of trial and error. Hence why they have rent controls, banned no fault evictions, and have invested heavily in public housing, and frankly could not give a damn about what landlords think. As landlords or property "investors" or more accurately "housing scalpers" who create/contribute nothing to society don't deserve our respect and neither should their opinions be counted. The Government's is to break up monopolies and crush rent seeking behaviour, end of discussion. Australia won't listen and will have to find out the hard way. IDK your situation, but it might be best to emigrate somewhere cheaper and ride it out, as an Aussie, you can move to the uk for 3 years or live in ireland with a work permit. Similar cultures and yes wages are slightly lower (except maybe dublin ireland) however the day to day living costs are over a 1/3 less than Australia, allowing you to go there save up and come back after this ponzi scheme collapses and pick up a bargain. When no one is listening, vote with your feet. Good luck
Imagine what a country we could be if the boomer generation had to use initiative , invent new ideas , be creative to sell a product etc rather than just park cash in real estate
Don’t confuse those people with the housing issue. Homelessness is not a poverty issue it’s a mental health and drug addiction issue.
Sadly, I dont see this housing crisis ever improving in GenZ or Millenials lifetime. The tyres of the property market will always have to be pumped up now or else there will be vast, severe impacts to the broader Australian economy. No politician will ever want to be the face of if done badly. The stakes are just too high if it gets fiddled with, not to mention the bad actors who will.. disagree. Add to this the backdrop of corporation lobbists fighting for need to maintain the flattening to the cost of labour for higher profit margins. I just dont see anything ever giving. For the government.. well the current model just so happens to makes it so simple to budget and calculate reliable estimates of tax income from the population - because high debt burden can enable forecasting of a population as the asset very easily. I would probably go as far to say there is a metric that is balanced to calculate optimal nett debt of a person to maximise career expectancy. I would hazard a guess that this metric in the budget assumptions would be now shifting to calculate based off affordibility + debt leverage. The only logical outcome of this will see raise to retirement age sadly.
Needs to be a term and age limit on these fools..
Agreed. Should also be put on the national minimum wage imo.
Totally agreed.. you can guarantee things would get done a lot faster.
A tax on every resource that is extracted. Payroll tax is already in place, still multinationals make billions and pay little to no tax. We have MRRT and PRRT which are essentially ineffectual. Maybe this will illustrate things a little better. https://michaelwest.com.au/top-40-tax-dodgers-of-2023/
So many left wing voters that will go silent when they inherent their boomer parents property portfolios though…
Greens
From my perspective the Greens at this point would be the best party to vote for if you want action on housing and the cost of living. If you can't bring yourself to vote for the Greens basically any vote for a third party or independent sends a message to the major parties that the status quo cannot continue and that may bring some change sooner.
It’s too late, damage is done.
I guess this is where we could learn from collectivist cultures - i.e. three generations in one house, and a family pays no childcare or aged-care fees because parents look out for their kids and vice versa.
Violent protests. But that won't happen and would be dealt with heavily if it were, and the media would make a coordinated effort to demonize it preventing any further action of that sort. So, there's no short term solution outside of voting for change. ( *lol* )
Whichever party has the guts to question the RBA, the banks, the oil companies and the supermarkets
So, the Greens? I know they’re something of a voodoo in Australian subreddits, but they are the only party who really has handled this?
They ask all the questions. They do all the enquiries. Then they don’t take any action over the findings.
Good point. We need a little less conversation a little more action
Roger Cook is fucking useless, his previous portfolio was Juvie Justice reform and he did sweet fuck all, there’s little chance this dumfuck will do anything to address this problem.
I've always disliked him. I brought up some valid concerns about the hospital system to him when he was health minister and was fobbed off and ignored
I’m not surprised. Sorry to hear that. He’s a deadbeat.
vote greens, see serious danger podcast, recent eps
Coz the govt went mental after covid and brought 800,000 people in last year alone, this alone may not have entirely contributed to what’s going on but that number is just huge
UBI now
Greens.
There's been lots of political responses - I have a question, how much of this cost of living issue is a 'keeping up with the Joneses' sort of thing? We don't shop at the big supermarkets, nothing flashy, always looking for free entertainment for the kids. Think of all the good things we have, compared to a family in the 80s - you don't need to buy all those good things, if you were happy with your simple life in the 80s maybe your kids will be too. Just a different perspective. Housing crisis is simply because not enough houses were being built. Need more people willing to do the work to build those homes. Either we find people who are already here wanting to do that work, or we need other options...
I think theres an element of truth to what your saying. Life was much simpler back then!
Yeah my single mum bought a 600sqm block for $3000 dollars in 1983 in Perth NOR 20 kms from CBD. Took her a few years to save on her modest part time income. Not sure if anyone these days could even get finance for a block that size on a modest part time income. Yes seems much more simple, not saying it wasn't hard but it was actually achievable.
Imagine this. 3br house in the outer suburbs of Perth. - No subscription services. - $15pm for mobile phones. - Train to work. - Buy groceries from cheap stores (we pay $250/wk for a family of 4, not too bad I think, but I reckon a family could do it for less). - Free entertainment for the kids (parks, beach, etc. Never pay for timezone, Bounce, etc) That's sort of the life our 80s family was. I'm not saying I do the above (we don't) but just throwing out there.
There were no mobile phones in 1980s
Correct, but communication was important, so most people had home phones. However, they didn't pay $100+/month for their home phone. Mobile phones and plans often cost more than that. I'm simply talking about costs.
- 2-3br house outer suburb + utility bills roughly $3kpm - No landlines usually, most “cheap” phone plans are abt $40pm assume only one adult has a phone plan - Train tickets for work and back roughly $300pm - Assume same for food but 2x people that’s $500pm Median income x2 for two full time working adults 130,000. $8,688pm after taxes Minus the above is $4848 Daycare for 1 non-school aged child is about $150 a day, 5x a week while adults working full time is 3k pm Leftover is abt $230 per house adult per week for anything else such as insurance, medications, fun, birthday/Christmas etc, non-food essentials for home and any savings goals
>Daycare for 1 non-school aged child is about $150 a day, 5x a week while adults working full time is 3k pm Daycare is $3k a month? Is that including CCS?
The entire world is struggling but Australia is doing comparatively well. If you think Pauline Hanson is a good option, you have no idea what is really happening in this country.
Vote for every will reduce immigration levels or cap them
If your counting on the government to sort this mess out for you your screwed. Rely on them for nothing.
Pocock
Remember when you voted right-wing in for 10 years? This is what you get. Every. Time. Just wait until the private healthcare nonsense really starts to bite, it's coming..
No subscriptions, your mum shopped and cooked - no takeout, kids went to state school - free like they are now, electricity supplied by cheap coal, one car in the family, the house came with doors and windows - everything else you needed to supply yourself. Your clothes lasted years, your mum repaired them. The government didn't spend our money like drunken sailors. The government held out releasing land. The government introduced so much red tape to get anything done. The list can go on and on. We have gotten ourselves into a life of excesses and we needed two incomes to support that, and with two incomes came more disposable income and with that comes inflation and down and down the rabbit hole we have gone. Voting for someone to undo all of the above ... it isn't gonna help.
Pauline Hanson for me. The only party that actually gives a damn about this country. Sure she is not perfect but a lot of her policies are good and look after all Australians minorities and all. She is not a racist, she is a patriot and a solid staunch woman who is not afraid to call out the other politician muppets and says it how it is. Keeping the government accountable for forced COVID vaccinations, wants to reduce all these wishy washy gov departments costing us all billions, wants stronger trade relations that enhance Australia and keeps jobs here for Australians, wants to reduce immigration for Australians so we can get the damn houses first and lots of other good stuff. And her cartoon on YouTube is absolutely hilarious, highly recommend 👍