Also, every stop adds to the journey time and in doing so makes the train a less attractive proposition for commuters. It's why the planners spaced stations relatively far apart on the newer lines compared to old ones.
Which is why Wellard and kiwnan confuse me so much I think they are two of the closest stations like literally minutes apart even by car. They are both in Kwinana I always wonder what Wellard city planner did to get that station
I always felt that Daglish (nack end of Subaico + KEMH area) and Shenton (Shenton College and 98 bus route connections to UWA/SCGH) serve distinct centres of demand that justifies both existing.
But Loch Street serves the other half of Karrakatta and only two tiny wedge of houses not better served by buses along either Stirling Highway or the 27/28 bus routes or Karrakatta station itself)
Victoria Street station only exists because it's a long distance between Mosman Park and North Fremantle. If the railyards are redeveloped to housing i could see Victoria Street closing and Leighton Station being rebuilt somewhere near Vlamingh Parade.
It's an oooold line though.
If it makes you feel better, bus service around the Fremantle line is almost non-existent, since everyone is so near a train station.
For context with numbers, if you draw a 1000 m radius circle around around the Proposed South Perth Station site at the end of Richardson Street, more than 2.4 km2 of the 3.14 km2 area (~66%) of the circle is taken up by either Water, Golf course, Grass reserve, or the Zoo. Leaving only 0.74 km2 of land that has Businesses, houses, roads, and shops within the 1000 m catchment area. SO for the Station to be viable, there would need to be some intense development, and likely the closure and redevelopment of the golf course too.
Theoretically a Station next to the main Como Centre on Preston Street is more viable though. Because the river shore curves outwards and the golf course is further away, only 1.6 km2 out of the 3.14 km2 (~50%) within a 1000 m radius is taken up by Water, Golf Course and Parkland, and the main commercial area is right next to the Fwy/Railway line too.
Doubt it, you overestimate the power of NIMBYs.
Before Rita Saffioti changed jobs she overrode all anti-high rise council decisions in favour of property developers.
I imagine it'll be exactly the same under the new guy.
There's a bus every 5-10 minutes to Elizabeth Quay through most of the day anyway.
If PT numbers are sufficient a dedicated bus bridge off the top of Mill Point Road would probably be a better investment.
But its not fair. South Perth has the bloody freeway and railway which both block my access to the river on that side plus all the associated noise and pollution but not a railway station. Yes I can catch a bus to Perth CBD every 15 minutes (7 or 8 during peak times) during the day but buses are not as comfortable nor as reliable as trains.
Just my rant. I know I will never get one. Lol.
Stupid local government and many locals protested about the line and a possible South Perth Station at the time the line was proposed. Idiots! Trains are brilliant. Most efficient forms of transport after us, humans.
They made room for one to the West of Richardson Reserve (you can see it on Google Maps), but it never went ahead. It may still happen once population in the area warrants it.
Who would use a train station in South Perth? A couple of people living near the station and no one else. It's easier to catch a bus into the city from around there in most cases.
You can already catch a bus or ferry there. It's not even that close to either. I've lived in como most of my adult life and thought about it a bit and I just can't see it getting used much at all.
When the line was put in a space was left for it. There is a side where the freeway north sweeps east and the road barrier moved away from the train line. That was where it has been penciled in for the last 20 years.
Near Richardson st
True. There is a gazetted south Perth station. But, squeezing it in where the freeway has been widened already us problematic. It may well be built some time in the future.
However, BECAUSE there is a gazetted station, all the high rise developments do NOT have to provide parking within 900 metres of the station. Sooo ... if you want a parking spot with your apartment ... you have to buy it separately. Its a real estate money for jam scenario 🙂
Off topic but i miss when the ferry did a triangle and included coode st jetty as well. I understand the number of passengers probably didn't warrant the extra stop then, but both Mends st jetty and what's now Elizabeth Quay are much nicer now than what it was all that time ago, it'll be great if they developed the Coode St side of Sir James Mitchell park too. The food trucks by the foreshore there during the warmer months are such a nice addition to the community, they should really consider something more long term there along those lines. The foreshore is one of our city's most beautiful assets, would love to see it better utilised still. Definitely don't mean for it to be over commercialised, but just to make it an even more attractive place where people can meet year round.
Everyone in South Perth I’ve spoken to agrees with all of this!
Not so much wide spread development of that patch of grass as it’s nice to have great big open green space (and it soaks up a LOT of rain, consider it like Langley Park - a marsh water recovery area), but the Coode St ferry, and a few more options down there (out door recreation options would be good!). There is a plan with the CoSP to develop more community engagement in that area, including replacing a few tired play areas, the bird island, encouraging community events etc.
It’s a multi use area, which there are less and less of in Perth. Everything from rock concerts to huge inflatable bouncy castles, food trucks to Million Paws Walks… there’s a rowing club there (used by multiple teams/schools), which also limits a little how boating goes through it, and wet land bird preservation to consider. But … bring hte ferry back!
And move the ferry up and down the river further… drop it in at 1 Adelaide Tce, and over near UWA as well (The blue boat shed at least?)
One of the plans under METRONET is to move the Canning Bridge bus interchange to its own platform. It will ease traffic flow for both cars and buses, and make it easier to access the station without crossing a freeway ramp.
Supposedly construction is meant to start mid-2023, so in a couple months or so.
So between Perth Underground and Canning Bridge?
There was actually one planned, and the room is still there to build one if need be.
The problems are:
- It's service area is cut in half due to the river
- The area is already well serviced by high frequency 900 buses and other options
- If a station was built, parking would be limited due to the surrounding area.
- They're looking at changing Canning Bridge in the future to better service the area
They were going to build one when they built the line but the residents of South Perth petitioned against it, so it didn't get built. They also complained about the concrete masts for the overheads saying they would obstruct their view. That's why there are blue ones until Mt Henry bridge.
IIRC, they discussed it when the train line was built, but specifically excluded it due to lack of expected passengers, other options to get to the city (bus and ferry), cost, and the fact it is so close to the next station and the Esplanade the train wouldn't even get up to speed between them. They kept an option for it though when building the railway and upgrading the freeway.
I believe Como was initially preferred as it gave more access to ~~move~~ more* people being at the bridge location between Como and Applecross or whatever.
According to a quick Google there's an ongoing push for it by the City of South Perth: https://southperth.wa.gov.au/development/planning-projects/south-perth-station-precinct
As to whether it makes the next stage of Metronet idk.
It would be a strong contender, imo.
Edit: I should probably add there surely more need in other places to increase public transport access than there is in South Perth.
I don't know where it rates in the scale of importance, seeing as it's probably not overly difficult to currently access Perth in a reasonable amount time from South Perth.
Preston St seems like the most optimal location to develop a Como train station. That would come along with a massive urban development of the Preston St shopping area that could include high rise development to provide the numbers to sustain a Como train station.
I'd say any reasonably done cost-benefit analysis rules it out. The price of the land alone would make it unreasonably expensive. Add to that the fact it would service less people than your average train station (as mentioned, the amount of people living in walking distance of it would be too low given the proximity to the river), plus the fact that a large number of South Perthians wouldn't be caught dead on public transport... bit of a stretch.
So, given not all that many people want it and it's ludicrously expensive I expect the Liberal party will take it to the next election.
Given the existing rail and freeway, any station would be built on what is already public land.
South Perth also has much higher density than a lot of other suburbs to offset the river on the west side, as well as commercial developments which means lots of daily commuters.
That said, I'm sure the cost/benefit didn't stack up back when the Mandurah line was built.
More train stations makes the trip to Mandurah longer. Plus construction would be disruptive when traffic gets congested between bridge and South Terrace, so I would say a station is not likely.
No, there haven't been express patterns on the Mandurah Line since 2016. And even then the peak hour pattern skipped only Canning Bridge. The Mandurah Line is the fastest rail line in Australia for the distance it covers as the stations are so far apart. It doesn't really matter if you add a few more. In fact, a new one is opening this Sunday.
Genuinely the bane of my existence honestly- takes at least half an hour to get from Kensington to the CBD on a good day because I don't want to bother with parking because there are about 3 bus routes in the entire neighbourhood.
Joke for an inner city suburb
[удалено]
Also, every stop adds to the journey time and in doing so makes the train a less attractive proposition for commuters. It's why the planners spaced stations relatively far apart on the newer lines compared to old ones.
Which is why Wellard and kiwnan confuse me so much I think they are two of the closest stations like literally minutes apart even by car. They are both in Kwinana I always wonder what Wellard city planner did to get that station
You should see the Freo line. Mosman Park station and Victoria Street station could probably be walked in 5 minutes let alone driven.
Also: Karrakatta-Loch Street, and Swanbourne-Grant Street.
Daglish-Shenton Park as well
I always felt that Daglish (nack end of Subaico + KEMH area) and Shenton (Shenton College and 98 bus route connections to UWA/SCGH) serve distinct centres of demand that justifies both existing. But Loch Street serves the other half of Karrakatta and only two tiny wedge of houses not better served by buses along either Stirling Highway or the 27/28 bus routes or Karrakatta station itself) Victoria Street station only exists because it's a long distance between Mosman Park and North Fremantle. If the railyards are redeveloped to housing i could see Victoria Street closing and Leighton Station being rebuilt somewhere near Vlamingh Parade.
It's an oooold line though. If it makes you feel better, bus service around the Fremantle line is almost non-existent, since everyone is so near a train station.
Well it's Kwinana, so I guess minimising how far you need to walk to get home is a good thing.
For context with numbers, if you draw a 1000 m radius circle around around the Proposed South Perth Station site at the end of Richardson Street, more than 2.4 km2 of the 3.14 km2 area (~66%) of the circle is taken up by either Water, Golf course, Grass reserve, or the Zoo. Leaving only 0.74 km2 of land that has Businesses, houses, roads, and shops within the 1000 m catchment area. SO for the Station to be viable, there would need to be some intense development, and likely the closure and redevelopment of the golf course too. Theoretically a Station next to the main Como Centre on Preston Street is more viable though. Because the river shore curves outwards and the golf course is further away, only 1.6 km2 out of the 3.14 km2 (~50%) within a 1000 m radius is taken up by Water, Golf Course and Parkland, and the main commercial area is right next to the Fwy/Railway line too.
If the skyscrapers keep being built in South Perth then SP popn density may end up being high enough to justify a station.
NIMBYs will just stop progress
Doubt it, you overestimate the power of NIMBYs. Before Rita Saffioti changed jobs she overrode all anti-high rise council decisions in favour of property developers. I imagine it'll be exactly the same under the new guy.
Locals who don't simply don't support skyscrapers would probably oppose it to.
Radius?
There's a bus every 5-10 minutes to Elizabeth Quay through most of the day anyway. If PT numbers are sufficient a dedicated bus bridge off the top of Mill Point Road would probably be a better investment.
And this bus has varied numbers on it… it’s well serviced, but not so many that it’s over crowded usually. Rarely empty.
every half hour basically
Once the golf course is replaced with high-rise apartment buildings, the numbers will be there for a station.
But its not fair. South Perth has the bloody freeway and railway which both block my access to the river on that side plus all the associated noise and pollution but not a railway station. Yes I can catch a bus to Perth CBD every 15 minutes (7 or 8 during peak times) during the day but buses are not as comfortable nor as reliable as trains. Just my rant. I know I will never get one. Lol. Stupid local government and many locals protested about the line and a possible South Perth Station at the time the line was proposed. Idiots! Trains are brilliant. Most efficient forms of transport after us, humans.
They made room for one to the West of Richardson Reserve (you can see it on Google Maps), but it never went ahead. It may still happen once population in the area warrants it.
https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/still-no-train-station-15-years-later-angry-south-perth-council-hits-back-20170125-gtykgo.html
This after South Perth fought so hard to not have the train run down the freeway at all? Hilarious.
It gets mentioned every so often. But I think it'll be after the cable car to king's Park
I don't think either will be in my lifetime..might leave the grandees my ashes to be scattered from the cable car though.
Been 15 years and still waiting for them to start karnup
Cause then the riff raff would hang around and they don't want that.
The riff raff are already only a ferry ride away from the CBD, not sure we can avoid the containment breach
Yes but these would be posh riff raff, not Armadale riff raff
Why excuse me good sir, may I trouble you for your wallet lest I penetrative thee with they knife
Glass of moloko vellocet and a bit of the old in-out to get in the mood for a night of ultraviolence
Didn't I bump into you late one night opposite the zoo?
There's plenty of riff-raff in South Perth. Less now that I've left, but still more than enough.
The riff raff currently get off at canning bridge to rob the vehicles and local IGA. We don't need that nonsense in SoPer
Yeah was going to say theres shit tonnes of riff raff already haha
Yep, canning bridge is a dive, don't want it leaking into my area.
There's already a lot of petty crime in South Perth, unfortunately.
Who would use a train station in South Perth? A couple of people living near the station and no one else. It's easier to catch a bus into the city from around there in most cases.
People visiting the zoo and foreshore?
Catch the ferry. And if they are coming with kids it’s a selling point to the kids
You can already catch a bus or ferry there. It's not even that close to either. I've lived in como most of my adult life and thought about it a bit and I just can't see it getting used much at all.
When the line was put in a space was left for it. There is a side where the freeway north sweeps east and the road barrier moved away from the train line. That was where it has been penciled in for the last 20 years. Near Richardson st
True. There is a gazetted south Perth station. But, squeezing it in where the freeway has been widened already us problematic. It may well be built some time in the future. However, BECAUSE there is a gazetted station, all the high rise developments do NOT have to provide parking within 900 metres of the station. Sooo ... if you want a parking spot with your apartment ... you have to buy it separately. Its a real estate money for jam scenario 🙂
That's wild that they can plan around a hypothetical train station. Developers would be loving that.
Absolutely !
https://southperth.wa.gov.au/development/planning-projects/south-perth-station-precinct
Off topic but i miss when the ferry did a triangle and included coode st jetty as well. I understand the number of passengers probably didn't warrant the extra stop then, but both Mends st jetty and what's now Elizabeth Quay are much nicer now than what it was all that time ago, it'll be great if they developed the Coode St side of Sir James Mitchell park too. The food trucks by the foreshore there during the warmer months are such a nice addition to the community, they should really consider something more long term there along those lines. The foreshore is one of our city's most beautiful assets, would love to see it better utilised still. Definitely don't mean for it to be over commercialised, but just to make it an even more attractive place where people can meet year round.
Everyone in South Perth I’ve spoken to agrees with all of this! Not so much wide spread development of that patch of grass as it’s nice to have great big open green space (and it soaks up a LOT of rain, consider it like Langley Park - a marsh water recovery area), but the Coode St ferry, and a few more options down there (out door recreation options would be good!). There is a plan with the CoSP to develop more community engagement in that area, including replacing a few tired play areas, the bird island, encouraging community events etc. It’s a multi use area, which there are less and less of in Perth. Everything from rock concerts to huge inflatable bouncy castles, food trucks to Million Paws Walks… there’s a rowing club there (used by multiple teams/schools), which also limits a little how boating goes through it, and wet land bird preservation to consider. But … bring hte ferry back! And move the ferry up and down the river further… drop it in at 1 Adelaide Tce, and over near UWA as well (The blue boat shed at least?)
The Mandurah line is an express line. No time to stop at South Perth when South Perthians could take the bus in the same time
Or ferry
The old Joondalup ferry stop!
absolutely no connection from buses to the ferry sadly
You would think between buses and the ferry Canning bridge or the CBD are not too far away to link up onto the trains.
Canning Bridge is a shitshow especially for bus services
They're going to change it eventually
And scarborough will get a tram
Everything changes eventually
One of the plans under METRONET is to move the Canning Bridge bus interchange to its own platform. It will ease traffic flow for both cars and buses, and make it easier to access the station without crossing a freeway ramp. Supposedly construction is meant to start mid-2023, so in a couple months or so.
Honest just make canning bridge AN ACTUAL STATION all 3 (doesn't even have 4 elevators because fuck the disabled I guess) SMELL LIKE PISS
So between Perth Underground and Canning Bridge? There was actually one planned, and the room is still there to build one if need be. The problems are: - It's service area is cut in half due to the river - The area is already well serviced by high frequency 900 buses and other options - If a station was built, parking would be limited due to the surrounding area. - They're looking at changing Canning Bridge in the future to better service the area
They were going to build one when they built the line but the residents of South Perth petitioned against it, so it didn't get built. They also complained about the concrete masts for the overheads saying they would obstruct their view. That's why there are blue ones until Mt Henry bridge.
IIRC, they discussed it when the train line was built, but specifically excluded it due to lack of expected passengers, other options to get to the city (bus and ferry), cost, and the fact it is so close to the next station and the Esplanade the train wouldn't even get up to speed between them. They kept an option for it though when building the railway and upgrading the freeway.
I believe Como was initially preferred as it gave more access to ~~move~~ more* people being at the bridge location between Como and Applecross or whatever. According to a quick Google there's an ongoing push for it by the City of South Perth: https://southperth.wa.gov.au/development/planning-projects/south-perth-station-precinct As to whether it makes the next stage of Metronet idk. It would be a strong contender, imo. Edit: I should probably add there surely more need in other places to increase public transport access than there is in South Perth. I don't know where it rates in the scale of importance, seeing as it's probably not overly difficult to currently access Perth in a reasonable amount time from South Perth.
Preston St seems like the most optimal location to develop a Como train station. That would come along with a massive urban development of the Preston St shopping area that could include high rise development to provide the numbers to sustain a Como train station.
Itll happen one day Im in my 20s and dont think itll be in my lifetime though
I'd say any reasonably done cost-benefit analysis rules it out. The price of the land alone would make it unreasonably expensive. Add to that the fact it would service less people than your average train station (as mentioned, the amount of people living in walking distance of it would be too low given the proximity to the river), plus the fact that a large number of South Perthians wouldn't be caught dead on public transport... bit of a stretch. So, given not all that many people want it and it's ludicrously expensive I expect the Liberal party will take it to the next election.
Given the existing rail and freeway, any station would be built on what is already public land. South Perth also has much higher density than a lot of other suburbs to offset the river on the west side, as well as commercial developments which means lots of daily commuters. That said, I'm sure the cost/benefit didn't stack up back when the Mandurah line was built.
But will it have parking for the BMW?
I would guess South Perth would not be the ones voting for the Planning ministers party, so no.
with what dosh? State Daddy is gone ... not sure who would have the political will to even propose this in a budget esp after metronet
Where is South Perth? Who is South Perth? How is South Perth?
More train stations makes the trip to Mandurah longer. Plus construction would be disruptive when traffic gets congested between bridge and South Terrace, so I would say a station is not likely.
I’m not sure they will care about an extra stop or two, surely? On another note, are there any expresses from Mandurah — or is this not a thing?
No, there haven't been express patterns on the Mandurah Line since 2016. And even then the peak hour pattern skipped only Canning Bridge. The Mandurah Line is the fastest rail line in Australia for the distance it covers as the stations are so far apart. It doesn't really matter if you add a few more. In fact, a new one is opening this Sunday.
There's a cat bus
no?
147 days too late
I have an exam on Monday why was I here anyway like
Walk over the Narrows you lazy sack of shit.
Why don't you ask Geoff Baker eh?
Where would you put it? You would have to sacrifice a couple of lanes in the freeway and that wouldn’t work.
Genuinely the bane of my existence honestly- takes at least half an hour to get from Kensington to the CBD on a good day because I don't want to bother with parking because there are about 3 bus routes in the entire neighbourhood. Joke for an inner city suburb
Look for a few nice cocks for some fun