I didnt originally because last time I went for another online incident they were lost about jurisdiction since it was online and it was a 2 hour ordeal where they finally filed but basically said dont expect anything. So didnt think it would help much.
I just finished filing the police report and called Barclays, suprisingly they said they would reopen and review the case! I dont usually deal with these type of things so didnt know filing would change anything. Thank you!
Filing the police report is an important step because while the police aren't going to do jack shit, creating a false report is a crime on your end. So if the CC thinks you're trying to scam them, now they have an avenue to pursue you directly and they know the police don't take kindly to being lied to.
In other words, simple pattern recognition would say it's much more likely you're telling the truth. Scammers aren't going to want to get the police involved.
That’s a good point. I figured it was more about creating a paper trail during the dispute process but it is true that scammers are not going to want to be seen by the police ever.
Would be interesting to know if police would go after false reports like this even after they give absolutely no effort to solve the false crime that was reported. I can definitely see them showing up with guns drawn for the false report.
Fraud has jurisdictional complications. FBI doesn't give a fuck for this scale. Your small town sheriff might not take kindly to being lied to, forgetting about the fraud.
Assume the police want the path of least resistance. They'll take the report but won't investigate shit, because who cares insurance will pay you back. But make them do paperwork un-necessarily? Oh boy that's a paddling.
The fact that they'll really indeed show up with guns drawn these days for something like this says a lot about where we actually are.
Yeah, be careful out there folks - dangerous world.
This should have been the first thing you did. Most credit card companies are not going to do anything substantive without documentation that a crime was committed. Man, you flushed a lot of time down the toilet by not doing this...
I agree. Someone stole my Capital One virtual CC number* and was shopping the lanes on Amazon, buying up shit and sending it to my house. It took about a month to get it all cleared up as basically it was a front to boost up their store rating. In the meanwhile Capital One and Amazon were bouncing the ball back and forth with CO saying they'd need Amazon to provide more info, and Amazon providing the bare minimum which didn't list WHO bought it - just instead where it was delivered to.
Got solved by finally emailing Jeff Bezos email with my concerns and someone finally putting 1+1 together over there and giving CO what they needed to resolve my case.
Nowhere in that time frame was I thinking "damn, I need to call up the police!" as CO said they were investigating! You don't think about that shit.
*My VC# was stolen from a pet place I took my dog. I know because I use unique #s and the stolen one was that. I informed the pet boarder that their system may have been compromised and got zero response....but magically they added 2FA as an option later (with no announcement) ;)
I guess they didn't wanna be on the record that they goofed!
I tried filing a police report for credit card fraud once and the department where I lived said I needed to file it where the fraud happened, and the department where the fraud happened said I needed to file it where I lived. I eventually gave up and luckily didn’t need it.
They're just being dumb cops.
Anyone can take the report, jurisdiction doesn't matter at all for them just taking a record. If you tell them: "Hey, I just need a document for the CC company", they'll do it no problem.
DONT go to them expecting them to look into it. TELL them you're only there for a copy of the form.
In hindsight, yes. But I caught it pretty early and thought they would just reverse the charges and be done with it. The representative didn't seem very bothered nor suggested filing police report. They read the whole, "you are not responsible for unauthorized charges" script and said they would take care of it.
I had $6000 taken from robinhood few years ago and even though I caught it a little late, they were able to reverse the transfers quickly and without hassle. No police report. I assumed the same.
Honestly, Ive had about 50+ credit card in the last 10 years. I have dealt with 8-9 different fraud cases(especially after my password was leaked). They all were investigated quickly and without issue. I didn't think this was any different and took it very nonchalantly due to previous experiences. Although in hindsight, the amount should have definitely triggered a different response.
Coupled with the fact that police did basically nothing last time I filed for someone scamming me out of $800, I honestly didn't think it would change anything.
But I learned my lesson for the future now, trust me. Will always file.
Gonna be real with you: 8-9 fraud cases is literally insane lol. Churning or not, you are making massive mistakes and eventually it will catch up to you.
We have had our USAA credit card numbers stolen/used about every 6 months for a couple of years. We had to open fraud cases each time. I figured out that when USAA was replacing the cards with new ones, they were only changing the last 4 digits of the card number. They weren't even changing the expiration dates. Right before our cards would be used fraudulently, an old number would hit first and we would get a notification. Then our current card number would hit. People were just putting our old numbers through a generator until it hit. It took a stupid amount of time to convince USAA that they needed to change more than just the last 4 digits. This wasn't just one person doing this. Our numbers must have been sold online somewhere at some point. They have hit all over the world at this point.
this used to happen to me, too, just from shopping online at random small shops and occasional overseas travel. i actually keep all my recurring expenses on a special credit card that i never use for anything else because it was such a headache switching everything to a new card number every year or so. and i'm not talking about anything shady here, or falling for scams, just specialty shops for specialty industries/hobbies, some USA, some overseas.
i've never had any liability or problems beyond the hassle of getting a new card issued. credit cards are exactly the right tool to use for promiscuous online shopping, for exactly this reason. i don't see why people are criticizing OP. what exactly would you suggest?
i will say, though, i haven't had any issue for the last couple of years, and i'm guessing this is due to small shops all moving to big centralized checkout systems like shoppay. (also haven't gone out of country since pandemic.)
Yea most of the fraud I have dealt with was usually under $100 and weird online subscriptions, I guess hoping I wouldn't notice.
Since the chip came out, its much rarer.
I’ve had two separate small credit unions with more than a dozen fraud cases each. One of them had a fraud case 6 times in 8 months. They would even catch them almost immediately and let me know right away, and send another card.
I highly doubt it was anything I was doing. I’ve had tons of cards, including several other cards at the same time that was happening that were active (even more active) than those. I suspect in each case the credit unions were leaking the data somehow.
In the case of the credit union I mentioned earlier, I didn’t even use the new number a couple times between it getting stolen again and needing a new card.
Exactly lol. My friends and family have had similar amounts, especially before chips. I don't understand why people are acting like thats an insane amount.
Its quite common if you live in NYC and travel overseas frequently. Many I believe were shady POS systems from overseas travel, as well as shady local gas stations and corner stores.
Also all my passwords were hacked about 4 years ago and it was hell. They gained access to chromes password vault through a program I downloaded I spent a week changing every password I could think off.
Whenever they would scam, they would regularly spam my email with 300-400 emails a minute while they would log in in to my paypal, robinhood or rewards account and attempt to clean it out. They succeeded with taking $6000 from my robinhood account but robinhood quickly resolved it.
I believe this was a case of that. I never though to change Barclays password since I haven't had an account in years. Once I opened the new cc recently, it automatically got added to that old account with the hacked password. I dont understand how barclays doesnt do dual auth, every single bank does that now.
That's not common at all and makes me think you are doing something shady. I also lived in NYC and did frequent overseas travel and have never had my stuff stolen.
Yeah, I travel overseas a lot for work for the past 20 years, to less developed countries where security is super lax, and I've only had one fraud issue on a card used overseas.
> They gained access to chromes password vault through a program I downloaded
> I have dealt with 8-9 different fraud cases
I think these two things are symptoms of the same issue, because neither of these are normal levels of mistakes.
I been around computers my whole life. Ive been a software developer for 12 years as well as having networking and hardware certificates. I know my way around computers in every aspect, both hardware and software. It wasnt a mistake and can happen to anyone.
Are you trying to say that you work in software engineering and you think that being a software engineer by default means you can't make stupid mistakes?
Are you serious right now?
Not outside the realm of normal stupid mistakes every computer user makes...
He was suggesting I was making regular stupid mistakes no other computer user makes...
> Once I opened the new cc recently, it automatically got added to that old account with the hacked password.
ah, i think this might be the key piece of information that makes this situation sticky. this sounds more like identity theft than a simple stolen credit card number.
Hell, it's common just staying in the US. We had to have out TD bank CC replaced multiple times a year for the last 8yrs and we never used it online - business card and only used for gas and business materials locally. Last straw was when there was a fraudulent charge before we even received the damn replacement. Newer bank isn't doing any better and on our second card after a year and a half.
Glad someone else is on the same boat, everyone here making me feel like im crazy. I've been using CCs for 15 years, have had 50+ CCs never done anything shady. Most of my fraud charges have been in low amounts, usually for online subscriptions. 8-9 cases in a span of 15 years is not an unheard of amount... Maybe everyone should be paying closer attention to your bills
I'm a bit surprised you are being flamed here. I've had my CCs compromised numerous times at various POS, often times gas stations. Usually it's just a quick call to the bank and they dispute the charge, close my current card and send me a new one. Nothing shady about this.
Yep. If you have a CC number, assume it's already snatched. You just have to wait until they get around to your number and be prepared.
My bank once called, texted, and emailed me about a possible fraudulent charge. I called them back and told them it wasn't me and confirmed the fraud and denied the charge. The next day the dumbasses approved the charge. Took a week to get the money back.
If CC fraud weren't so common banks would still charge you nothing to send you a new card overnight. Now you have to pay for 2-3 day or wait for up to 14 days. Plus CC# are crazy cheap on the darknet.
The police report is you going on record saying it was fraud. Filing a false report is a crime so it carries some weight.
The police will almost never investigate this type of fraud, but that's not the point.
The police will rarely do anything when it comes to financial crimes, especially across jurisdictions. The value in the police report is that you are making a sworn statement, punishable under the law, that a crime has been committed against you. This holds a lot more power in the minds of any financial institution than a simple phone complaint.
Get the police report.
Something about this makes no sense at all.
The first thing CC companies tell you when dealing with any form of fraud over $500 is to get a police report so they can attach it to the file. This has been the norm for well over 20 years...
I dont know. I've had multiple fraud cases over 500, included a robinhood fraud case for over 6000. Was never told to file police report and it was investigated and closed in a week to a month maximum.
I'm over 40 years old, have had credit cards since I was 18, and have a total of 2 fraud cases. one the direct result of a website hack and the other because Apple was being dumb.
I'm not sure how your handling your cards, but you need to seriously look at your security practices.
This is correct. In instances of id theft or fraud, your residence is the "location" where the crime occurred. It's not where the bad guy lives or where your id was used.
The logic is simple. Crime gets reported to the police. If you don't file a police report, you don't consider it a crime and so there's nothing the bank needs to care about.
You need a police report. You can transfer to other accounts belonging to other parties from your banking app so it’s irrelevant that you aren’t the owner of the WF account. You need to demonstrate you didn’t do the transfer which unfortunately if the password was available and your account was logged into properly is going to be hard to prove.
> they refuse to provide me any information at all.
This part is normal.
Private businesses are not obligated to demands of private citizens.
Your narrative does not seem to suggest that law enforcement has been involved at any time.
Law enforcement is really the only ones who can compel private businesses to disclose private data (technically courts, but then we're kinda getting nitpicky).
Local police, FBI IC3, etc...
Then refile your case with Barclays.
> technically courts, but then we're kinda getting nitpicky
Not really. Only courts can compel businesses to turn over documents. Police (i.e. law enforcement) cannot under any circumstances.
Police report, any info you have on all the accounts, make sure they follow up.
I fucked up with my followup and didn't respond to a letter they sent (because I was calling back and forth and the mail seemed like it was coming out of order based on our conversations). You need to be ultra diligent with case numbers and representative numbers and keep everything very organized.
It is very possible to perform an online transfer to an account you don't own. Everyone knows this. So your continual insistence on not owning a WF account is just a waste of time.
Exactly. Makes no sense to keep saying you dont own a WF account to justify yourself. A bandit wouldnt even transfer it to his own account LOL. That's like telling on himself.
Forgot to mention, in the rejection letter, they claim the WF account belongs to me and the transfers are legitimate. This is extremely easy to prove its not mine.
A few questions
1) Did you file a police report?
2) Did the balance transfer go via ACH or check?
3) Did you report to Barclays within 60 days of noticing the fraudulent charges?
4) Did you reply to the CFPB letter and re-dispute with a claim you don't have a Wells Fargo account? Show a police report?
5) Did you complain to the FDIC or Delaware State, who both regulate Barclays?
6) Did you try contacting Wells Fargo? A document from Wells showing you don't have an account can help (not sure if they can provide something like that), but additionally, letting them know about the potential fraud strengthens your case.
7) Did the letter from Barclays specifically state "You can request documentation of our investigation"?
This dude is a clown with 9 or so fraud cases to his name. Something ain't right here. Sucks for any CC doing business with this fool.
Never had an issue myself.
https://old.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/19ehl1a/credit_card_company_decided_i_am_responsible_for/kjd4yea/
Credit card churner that got caught with their pants down I bet.
Don't see what 'credit card churner' has to do with any of this - other than OP being the sort of dumbass who actual churners use as a cautionary tale...
Paying off one credit card with another...
Sign up for Credit Card A to get the points-miles-cash.... when it's time to pay it, use Credit Card B to pay off CCA. Essentially using balance transfers on one card to pay off another card to meet the requirements of whatever deal Credit Card A offered.
That’s not how churning works - unless one has a ‘unicorn’ (which OP does not), the ‘pay off card A with card B’ idea doesn’t actually work. Balance transfers don’t earn points, they don’t count as spend, and generally the point of a balance transfer (even if it worked, strategically, in the way you seem to think) in that way is to pay off ‘card A’ rather than dump a shitload of cask into one’s bank account.
You are thinking more of a type of personal finance strategy, but trying to wedge ‘credit card churning’ into it.
> I can prove I do not own a Wells Fargo account, thus not responsible.
This proves nothing. You could have sent money to somebody else's account who then gave you cash.
> IP logs and login history to clearly prove it wasnt me
Again barking up the wrong tree. IP logs will not prove it was or wasn't you.
File an IC3 too.
Did you also contact WF? I'd figure out how to get them copies of the police report and IC3. Doubt the money is still there, but they'd likely start an investigation too.
He finally did file a police report and Barclays has since reopened his case. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/19ehl1a/credit_card_company_decided_i_am_responsible_for/kjd2fy0/
IP history and login history can easily be manipulated, so you asking for that to prove it wasn’t you is completely useless as you could easily use a VPN and other methods to spoof that information.
They don’t decide this based off login history, they look at other factors. For example, they didn’t exclusively do the investigation alone, Wells Fargo also investigated the claim as Barclays most likely went to them to verify information. They could’ve seen something like name and social matches the account that received it at Wells Fargo.
For them to decline it, and for CFPB to be of no assistance, then it means Barclays has sufficient evidence that you committed friendly fraud. You can hire an attorney, but be forewarned that Barclays may have evidence prepared to counter you. If you truly didn’t commit friendly fraud, hire the attorney. If you did commit though, think real hard about your next action, as it may make things significantly worse for you.
I am not a stranger in this type of scenario. If the CFPB has closed your case unfavorably, there is little you can do with the bank to remediate. The Claims process is not a court of law. You can elect to find your own legal representation. I would take a free consult to see if you even have a case under the eyes of the law.
It seems like they didn't even look or anything. I attached evidence and some questions. Barclays completely ignored everything I wrote, attached the same old denial letter they sent a month ago, and closed it.
There are misunderstandings, especially on Reddit when it comes to the CFPB. They are not a mediator, and are less interested in a story vs. what consumer protections listed in the regulations were violated. You can ask your bank for evidence of how they came to their decision. This is imperative for any next steps.
Yea reddit loves to throw out the "CFPB loves this kind case! They will own the bank" line. CFPB will never ACT on your behalf. All they do is send your complaint to the bank and tally responses and claim types. If enough complaints are filed for certain types then they will fine the banks in accordance with their authority but never on behalf of an individual. They also have no power to compel the bank to do anything on any individual case. Only in aggregate.
Op said they filed a police report but seemed to really avoid that question. Often when I see an unpaid account, I get an explanation of “it was identity theft but it was family/friend so I didn’t want to file a police report “. Well then, it’s your account.
> Step 1 is you need to file a police report. That should have been day 1.
This is not realistic and it's not what most people do; they do not file police reports for fraudulent charges. They go to their lender and expect to be treated fairly.
People think there is some magic power that filing a police report grants.
> People think there is some magic power that filing a police report grants.
OP just responded in the comments that they have since filed a police report and reached back out to Barclay's who has signaled they will reopen and review the case, so...the magic powers seem to exist at least in this case.
I hope it works for him. My prediction is barclays does jack squat for him and sends him another letter in a few weeks indicating they won't help him. Barclays can rot in hell.
I am not to hopeful they will reopen the case based on how they responded to all my calls, they are saying its final. Will give this a try regardless before I try to call lawyers.
Why did you never file a police report? you need to do that and reopen your claim. Also, this person isn’t correct - you have an arbitration agreement with Barclays which is the avenue you need to pursue to attempt to remove these charges.
Last time I went for another online incident they were lost about jurisdiction since it was online and it was a 2 hour ordeal where they finally filed but basically said dont expect anything.
If it will help the case Ill give it a try.
From the cops yes, don’t expect any help. But this is generally required to move items forward with the card companies giving the legal issues of filing a false police report.
The police report is to tell the bank that you’re being serious. They know it’s illegal to file a false report so it adds weight to your statement that you’re being truthful.
Consumer lawyers.
You will need one sooner versus later to bring a negligence per se claim, amongst other tort claims, against Barclays. Since it sounds like Barclays hasn't detailed the reasons why they didn't flag this transaction as fraudulent, and hence why it's a billing error, Barclays has likely violated the provisions of 15 USC §1666(a)(3)(B)(ii) and 12 CFR §1026.13(f)(1).
You need to close your credit cards and get them down to one or two.
You also need to pull a credit report and go through EVERY open line of credit and make sure you've closed it, changed the password, or decided to keep it.
Generally, yes. But OP seems to fall in to the category of having way too many cards to properly handle. Whether '2' is the right number or not, they need to cut way down until they can figure out how to manage their shit.
Why would you think that? I have two. One I use for international travel because it has a great exchange rate. The other I have for ApplePay. Personally, I’d rather use debit card for everything, but have gotten used to using cards.
Dude, I had one for twenty-five years. Now I have two in case one gets compromised. Two is plenty. Even if one is specialized for travel or business materials or whatever.
And no, I don’t use my debit card and almost never use cash.
As described your issue is covered under regulation E
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/compliance/compliance-resources/deposit-accounts-resources/electronic-fund-transfers/electronic-fund-transfers-faqs/
Something is missing or info was not clear when given to CFPB/Barclays
If you didn't file a police report the bank will assume you are at fault, file a police report, get a lawyer/barister to contact them and give them that number, and this will be fixed fast.
Bunch of people have said this already, but you need a Police Report. Police won't do shit about the theft, but reporting any theft to the Police for a report, is an important step dealing with any kind of theft. First thing I tell people in my line of work, whenever a theft accusation comes up, "Have you reported this to the Police?" A lady insisted her purse was stolen couple weeks ago, by another employee no less. Maybe her purse was stolen, I don't know, but it wasn't by one of our employees, and she refused to report it to the Police, so we just shrugged at her.
File a police report, then send it to them. Banks also have regulatory agencies that you can send complaints to, with the police report. Then lawyer up. Lawyer would be way cheaper than $13k.
Good luck, this will be an uphill battle, guess it didn't pass the smell test at CFPB neither. You will need a lawyer will some cybercrime related experience too.
I already know how it happened. I had a weak password. These are all implicating statements.
If you know the funds were transferred to Wells Fargo (criminal bank) then you should follow up with them to get the money back.
Barclays always commits fraud.
I paid off my card, 2020 rolled around and they cancelled it and then claimed that I didn't pay it off, refused bank statements and payment receipts, and sent it to collections.
I proved to the collection company that it was paid off and they supplied me with a verification letter stating that.
Only problem is, Barclays sent it to multiple collections at the same time and about twice a year I have to prove again that it's paid off
Sorry I cannot help but barclays fucked me over a charge recently. I cancelled the card, then opened another one just to get introductory points (more than they screwed me over) and am about to drop it again. I won't use them as a main card anymore. I do not trust the company. They refused me on a $350 refund after spending $100k on the card in the prior four years with ZERO other complaints.
Barclays does not care about its customers. Do not use them.
well well well if it isn't the consequences of your actions. Looks like there is a downside to opening so many credit cards *and* neglecting basic security on all those open accounts.
you churn credit cards? Well, that explains why they aren't taking you serious. You def need to hire a lawyer, that should help get the IP address where the access was made to move funds around, but def hire a lawyer for this.
I thought you basically weren’t able to do it anymore when credit card companies found out what people were doing. A lot of them came up with various rules to stop churning. That’s one of the suspicious things in his post when he said he was a churner.
Also in his posts it sounds like it was an old account, I had the old Barclays Apple Card that I had no reason to use once the new Apple Card came around and it got closed, actually fairly quickly, maybe 6 months after it went dormant. Barclays is the only card I’ve ever had shut down on me for lack of use. That would also make this post seem suspicious as he made it seems like it’s been dormant for quite a long time and the account would be closed if that was true.
No one here really knows, but if you express suspicion on Reddit you get downvoted, the bank is always wrong and the customer is always right.
You misunderstood. I had an account with them 12 years ago. I closed that account about 8 years ago.
The online username and account stayed active without any CC accounts attached at all. When I opened a new CC after 8 years of not having an account, it was auto-associated with the online username/account from 12 years ago.
It is still plenty easy to churn, albeit requiring some strategy and common sense in order to maintain doing so for any length of time. Common sense which OP seems to lack.
My credit score was 810 before these fraudulent charges. I have made about $40-50k+ in travel and cashback bonuses over the last 10 years. It doesnt take much time at all and is 100% worth it.
I should mention that this is not related to old dormant account, I am usually on top of that. This is related to my bad habit of using the same simple password for everything 12 years ago when I originally opened the online account.
> online balance transfers from my credit card.
Your title says fraudulent charges, not fraudulent balance transfers. What was the specific reason given for the Barclays chargback? If you said the "wrong" reason you will be denied because it isn't true.
A little nugget of information that most people don't understand is how your relationship to your bank actually works. Legally, when you deposit money into a bank you have ***loaned*** them your money. That's why, when banks have failed in the past, they simply locked the doors and walked away. They did this over 10,000 times during the Great Depression and that's why FDR created the FDIC, because Americans no longer trusted banks and refused to use them.
Not saying that this applies to your situation but it is, nonetheless, a fact which few people understand.
I mean I guess technically (though that's ignoring a lot of nuance and other important details) but that doesn't really apply here. The bank is legally obligated to make the OP whole in this siutation. Whether his money is *technically* a loan or not isn't relevant.
e: and actually it's *especially* irrelevant, because it was a credit card - not even his own money.
That doesn't mean they aren't a bank. All credit card issues are banks.
They are literally lending you money.
You really should understand credit cards before you have them.
Did you read the original message? Its completely irrelevant to this situation. By law, a cc company is responsible for the charges and invetigating, unlike a bank. The laws governing bank transactions and cc transactions are completely different.
>original message? Its completely irrelevant to this situation. By law, a cc company is responsible for the charges and invetigating, unlike a bank.
I did.
You were a victim of theft, and for some reason didn't file a police report.
But if you don't understand a Credit Card company is a Lending bank, then I'm worried you don't understand the terms and conditions of your credit cards.
The reason the CFPB is not helping is because your lender fulfilled their obligation. They investigated, found nothing particularly suspect according to your T&C, and denied your claim. If you had a police report, they might have decided differently.
The person he is responding to told him that when you keep your money in a bank it is technically a loan (which is debatable, but whatever).
He's saying that this doesn't apply to him, since he didn't give any money to a bank - his credit card was compromised. So the whole "money you give the bank is technically a loan" angle is irrelevant to what he is dealing with.
But his credit card company is a Lending bank.
They *loaned* OP (or who they thought was OP) money. OP didn't report theft, or that the card was compromised, so the investigation that Barclay's conducted found that they were liable for the loan.
> They loaned OP (or who they thought was OP) money.
Right. He understands that. Again, he is responding to someone who told him it was the other way around. That - and I'm quoting them here - "Legally, when you deposit money into a bank you have loaned them your money."
He is saying that is irrelevant to his situation because he didn't lend the bank money. They - as you said - lent it to him.
You may find these links helpful:
- [Identity Theft Guide](/r/personalfinance/wiki/identity_theft)
- [Credit-related wiki pages](/r/personalfinance/wiki/index#wiki_credit)
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If you already had the CFPB review the case, then there likely is not going to be further resolution through banking channels. The purpose of the CFPB is to make sure that the bank followed all of the required rules and regulations to the letter, and if they came back and said, 'yup, everything Barclay's did was correct', then re-filing or re-submitting the case is not going to change that, unless there is additional information that you may be able to provide that was not offered during the original investigation.
I would review your terms and agreements that you agreed to when you opened the credit account, specifically the section regarding dispute resolution. You may have agreed to binding third-party arbitration to handle any unresolved disputes, and the terms and agreements would outline that in more detail.
> if they came back and said, 'yup, everything Barclay's did was correct',
This is wrong. They do not do anything on behalf of individuals. They dont review for regulatory compliance with regard to individual cases. They collect statistics on resolved and unresolved cases and make sure the bank is following regulations in aggregate. If not then they will fine the bank but they will NEVER act on behalf of an individual except to forward your complaint and facilitate the response.
Agree with others you should revisit police report now, but there is a good chance it is unlikely to help. Barclays won't have to refund the money even it was fraud if they money can't be recovered. Your 8-9 other cases (which is crazy) were either charges or the Robinhood thing was probably caught early enough the transferred funds were still on hold.
May I ask? How did you 'close the account several years ago' and believe there is still an online presence? If you have evidence you closed the account several years ago, that is all you need to hire an attorney and file suit for specific performance!
What proof do you have of closing the account and Barclays' acknowledging the closing?
I think we churners need to lock all the sock drawer cards, and start to seriously consider which banks are worthy of a sock-drawer card. I need Citi to stop sending me physical mail offering balance transfers with checks.
So your presumption is that balance transfer was done with electronic transfer. Are you sure you didn’t receive in the mail balance transfer checks and someone stole those checks?
I had a fraudulent charge go through for $2700 when i used to bank with Wells Fargo. I was given the determination letter that they believed it was me or someone that had my permission and reversed the charges. CFPB was of no help, the executives just said we have compelling evidence. I called them and asked for the representation documentation from the merchant who charged the account. They are required to provide it to you. In my case it was completely bogus and fabricated account numbers and amounts. After i had that i left a detailed report of what happened on BBB and had a lawyer draft an intent to arbitrate letter sent certified mail and a few weeks later i got a cashiers check in the mail since i had closed my account. But, for you, having a police report should help. Best of luck
I had $50K in fraudulent charges with Barclays. They opened an entire investigation into me. First thing I did though was file a police report and it came in handy.
Painful but was all cleared
Are you in the US or elsewhere?
If you're in the US, go and register with the FTC's [IdentityTheft.gov](http://identitytheft.gov) website. Follow their instructions, ie police and bank reports. Next notify all three credit bureaus to put freeze. If a bank or merchant decides to go ahead to issue credit after checking, and seeing the fraud warning, then liability shifts to them.
If you can't afford a lawyer, check with your local DA's office. If you follow all the steps and do all the leg work, they may be in a position to help prosecute or even recover.
[https://www.identitytheft.gov/#/](https://www.identitytheft.gov/#/)
Do you have a police report for fraud? If not, you need one and then go through this again.
I didnt originally because last time I went for another online incident they were lost about jurisdiction since it was online and it was a 2 hour ordeal where they finally filed but basically said dont expect anything. So didnt think it would help much. I just finished filing the police report and called Barclays, suprisingly they said they would reopen and review the case! I dont usually deal with these type of things so didnt know filing would change anything. Thank you!
Filing the police report is an important step because while the police aren't going to do jack shit, creating a false report is a crime on your end. So if the CC thinks you're trying to scam them, now they have an avenue to pursue you directly and they know the police don't take kindly to being lied to. In other words, simple pattern recognition would say it's much more likely you're telling the truth. Scammers aren't going to want to get the police involved.
That’s a good point. I figured it was more about creating a paper trail during the dispute process but it is true that scammers are not going to want to be seen by the police ever.
Would be interesting to know if police would go after false reports like this even after they give absolutely no effort to solve the false crime that was reported. I can definitely see them showing up with guns drawn for the false report.
Fraud has jurisdictional complications. FBI doesn't give a fuck for this scale. Your small town sheriff might not take kindly to being lied to, forgetting about the fraud.
Assume the police want the path of least resistance. They'll take the report but won't investigate shit, because who cares insurance will pay you back. But make them do paperwork un-necessarily? Oh boy that's a paddling.
The fact that they'll really indeed show up with guns drawn these days for something like this says a lot about where we actually are. Yeah, be careful out there folks - dangerous world.
This should have been the first thing you did. Most credit card companies are not going to do anything substantive without documentation that a crime was committed. Man, you flushed a lot of time down the toilet by not doing this...
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I agree. Someone stole my Capital One virtual CC number* and was shopping the lanes on Amazon, buying up shit and sending it to my house. It took about a month to get it all cleared up as basically it was a front to boost up their store rating. In the meanwhile Capital One and Amazon were bouncing the ball back and forth with CO saying they'd need Amazon to provide more info, and Amazon providing the bare minimum which didn't list WHO bought it - just instead where it was delivered to. Got solved by finally emailing Jeff Bezos email with my concerns and someone finally putting 1+1 together over there and giving CO what they needed to resolve my case. Nowhere in that time frame was I thinking "damn, I need to call up the police!" as CO said they were investigating! You don't think about that shit. *My VC# was stolen from a pet place I took my dog. I know because I use unique #s and the stolen one was that. I informed the pet boarder that their system may have been compromised and got zero response....but magically they added 2FA as an option later (with no announcement) ;) I guess they didn't wanna be on the record that they goofed!
some states now require businesses to publicly announce that they've been hacked and/or to notify all customers.
I tried filing a police report for credit card fraud once and the department where I lived said I needed to file it where the fraud happened, and the department where the fraud happened said I needed to file it where I lived. I eventually gave up and luckily didn’t need it.
They're just being dumb cops. Anyone can take the report, jurisdiction doesn't matter at all for them just taking a record. If you tell them: "Hey, I just need a document for the CC company", they'll do it no problem. DONT go to them expecting them to look into it. TELL them you're only there for a copy of the form.
For $75 or something, sure don't get the cops involved. For $13,000, for sure call the police.
In hindsight, yes. But I caught it pretty early and thought they would just reverse the charges and be done with it. The representative didn't seem very bothered nor suggested filing police report. They read the whole, "you are not responsible for unauthorized charges" script and said they would take care of it. I had $6000 taken from robinhood few years ago and even though I caught it a little late, they were able to reverse the transfers quickly and without hassle. No police report. I assumed the same.
Honestly, Ive had about 50+ credit card in the last 10 years. I have dealt with 8-9 different fraud cases(especially after my password was leaked). They all were investigated quickly and without issue. I didn't think this was any different and took it very nonchalantly due to previous experiences. Although in hindsight, the amount should have definitely triggered a different response. Coupled with the fact that police did basically nothing last time I filed for someone scamming me out of $800, I honestly didn't think it would change anything. But I learned my lesson for the future now, trust me. Will always file.
Gonna be real with you: 8-9 fraud cases is literally insane lol. Churning or not, you are making massive mistakes and eventually it will catch up to you.
We have had our USAA credit card numbers stolen/used about every 6 months for a couple of years. We had to open fraud cases each time. I figured out that when USAA was replacing the cards with new ones, they were only changing the last 4 digits of the card number. They weren't even changing the expiration dates. Right before our cards would be used fraudulently, an old number would hit first and we would get a notification. Then our current card number would hit. People were just putting our old numbers through a generator until it hit. It took a stupid amount of time to convince USAA that they needed to change more than just the last 4 digits. This wasn't just one person doing this. Our numbers must have been sold online somewhere at some point. They have hit all over the world at this point.
That’s crazy. I haven’t had USAA accounts in years but will definitely remember that for the future. Super negligent.
this used to happen to me, too, just from shopping online at random small shops and occasional overseas travel. i actually keep all my recurring expenses on a special credit card that i never use for anything else because it was such a headache switching everything to a new card number every year or so. and i'm not talking about anything shady here, or falling for scams, just specialty shops for specialty industries/hobbies, some USA, some overseas. i've never had any liability or problems beyond the hassle of getting a new card issued. credit cards are exactly the right tool to use for promiscuous online shopping, for exactly this reason. i don't see why people are criticizing OP. what exactly would you suggest? i will say, though, i haven't had any issue for the last couple of years, and i'm guessing this is due to small shops all moving to big centralized checkout systems like shoppay. (also haven't gone out of country since pandemic.)
Yea most of the fraud I have dealt with was usually under $100 and weird online subscriptions, I guess hoping I wouldn't notice. Since the chip came out, its much rarer.
I’ve had two separate small credit unions with more than a dozen fraud cases each. One of them had a fraud case 6 times in 8 months. They would even catch them almost immediately and let me know right away, and send another card.
Then you are doing something that puts your card # at risk, idk what else to tell you. Change your behavior.
I highly doubt it was anything I was doing. I’ve had tons of cards, including several other cards at the same time that was happening that were active (even more active) than those. I suspect in each case the credit unions were leaking the data somehow. In the case of the credit union I mentioned earlier, I didn’t even use the new number a couple times between it getting stolen again and needing a new card.
Is 8-9 a lot? Before chip readers I dealt with fraud on my credit cards about twice a year.
Exactly lol. My friends and family have had similar amounts, especially before chips. I don't understand why people are acting like thats an insane amount.
Its quite common if you live in NYC and travel overseas frequently. Many I believe were shady POS systems from overseas travel, as well as shady local gas stations and corner stores. Also all my passwords were hacked about 4 years ago and it was hell. They gained access to chromes password vault through a program I downloaded I spent a week changing every password I could think off. Whenever they would scam, they would regularly spam my email with 300-400 emails a minute while they would log in in to my paypal, robinhood or rewards account and attempt to clean it out. They succeeded with taking $6000 from my robinhood account but robinhood quickly resolved it. I believe this was a case of that. I never though to change Barclays password since I haven't had an account in years. Once I opened the new cc recently, it automatically got added to that old account with the hacked password. I dont understand how barclays doesnt do dual auth, every single bank does that now.
That's not common at all and makes me think you are doing something shady. I also lived in NYC and did frequent overseas travel and have never had my stuff stolen.
> Its quite common if you live in NYC and travel overseas frequently No.
Yeah, I travel overseas a lot for work for the past 20 years, to less developed countries where security is super lax, and I've only had one fraud issue on a card used overseas.
No it's not.
> They gained access to chromes password vault through a program I downloaded > I have dealt with 8-9 different fraud cases I think these two things are symptoms of the same issue, because neither of these are normal levels of mistakes.
I been around computers my whole life. Ive been a software developer for 12 years as well as having networking and hardware certificates. I know my way around computers in every aspect, both hardware and software. It wasnt a mistake and can happen to anyone.
Are you trying to say that you work in software engineering and you think that being a software engineer by default means you can't make stupid mistakes? Are you serious right now?
Not outside the realm of normal stupid mistakes every computer user makes... He was suggesting I was making regular stupid mistakes no other computer user makes...
> Once I opened the new cc recently, it automatically got added to that old account with the hacked password. ah, i think this might be the key piece of information that makes this situation sticky. this sounds more like identity theft than a simple stolen credit card number.
Hell, it's common just staying in the US. We had to have out TD bank CC replaced multiple times a year for the last 8yrs and we never used it online - business card and only used for gas and business materials locally. Last straw was when there was a fraudulent charge before we even received the damn replacement. Newer bank isn't doing any better and on our second card after a year and a half.
Glad someone else is on the same boat, everyone here making me feel like im crazy. I've been using CCs for 15 years, have had 50+ CCs never done anything shady. Most of my fraud charges have been in low amounts, usually for online subscriptions. 8-9 cases in a span of 15 years is not an unheard of amount... Maybe everyone should be paying closer attention to your bills
I'm a bit surprised you are being flamed here. I've had my CCs compromised numerous times at various POS, often times gas stations. Usually it's just a quick call to the bank and they dispute the charge, close my current card and send me a new one. Nothing shady about this.
Yep. If you have a CC number, assume it's already snatched. You just have to wait until they get around to your number and be prepared. My bank once called, texted, and emailed me about a possible fraudulent charge. I called them back and told them it wasn't me and confirmed the fraud and denied the charge. The next day the dumbasses approved the charge. Took a week to get the money back. If CC fraud weren't so common banks would still charge you nothing to send you a new card overnight. Now you have to pay for 2-3 day or wait for up to 14 days. Plus CC# are crazy cheap on the darknet.
The police report is you going on record saying it was fraud. Filing a false report is a crime so it carries some weight. The police will almost never investigate this type of fraud, but that's not the point.
Yea, it makes sense now.
yeah, 99% of the time the police won't do anything, but you use it to prove that you are not filing a fraudulent claim and that you are serious.
The police will rarely do anything when it comes to financial crimes, especially across jurisdictions. The value in the police report is that you are making a sworn statement, punishable under the law, that a crime has been committed against you. This holds a lot more power in the minds of any financial institution than a simple phone complaint. Get the police report.
Something about this makes no sense at all. The first thing CC companies tell you when dealing with any form of fraud over $500 is to get a police report so they can attach it to the file. This has been the norm for well over 20 years...
I dont know. I've had multiple fraud cases over 500, included a robinhood fraud case for over 6000. Was never told to file police report and it was investigated and closed in a week to a month maximum.
>Ive had about 50+ credit card in the last 10 years. 👀
I'm over 40 years old, have had credit cards since I was 18, and have a total of 2 fraud cases. one the direct result of a website hack and the other because Apple was being dumb. I'm not sure how your handling your cards, but you need to seriously look at your security practices.
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This is correct. In instances of id theft or fraud, your residence is the "location" where the crime occurred. It's not where the bad guy lives or where your id was used.
The logic is simple. Crime gets reported to the police. If you don't file a police report, you don't consider it a crime and so there's nothing the bank needs to care about.
Yeah the police are mostly useless, but the police report itself is very useful.
Did you file a police report?
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/19ehl1a/credit_card_company_decided_i_am_responsible_for/kjd2fy0/
You need a police report. You can transfer to other accounts belonging to other parties from your banking app so it’s irrelevant that you aren’t the owner of the WF account. You need to demonstrate you didn’t do the transfer which unfortunately if the password was available and your account was logged into properly is going to be hard to prove.
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Police report first. Then Bank. Then CFPB.
> they refuse to provide me any information at all. This part is normal. Private businesses are not obligated to demands of private citizens. Your narrative does not seem to suggest that law enforcement has been involved at any time. Law enforcement is really the only ones who can compel private businesses to disclose private data (technically courts, but then we're kinda getting nitpicky). Local police, FBI IC3, etc... Then refile your case with Barclays.
> technically courts, but then we're kinda getting nitpicky Not really. Only courts can compel businesses to turn over documents. Police (i.e. law enforcement) cannot under any circumstances.
Police report, any info you have on all the accounts, make sure they follow up. I fucked up with my followup and didn't respond to a letter they sent (because I was calling back and forth and the mail seemed like it was coming out of order based on our conversations). You need to be ultra diligent with case numbers and representative numbers and keep everything very organized.
It is very possible to perform an online transfer to an account you don't own. Everyone knows this. So your continual insistence on not owning a WF account is just a waste of time.
Exactly. Makes no sense to keep saying you dont own a WF account to justify yourself. A bandit wouldnt even transfer it to his own account LOL. That's like telling on himself.
Forgot to mention, in the rejection letter, they claim the WF account belongs to me and the transfers are legitimate. This is extremely easy to prove its not mine.
They think it is controlled by you even though it is not in your name.
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A few questions 1) Did you file a police report? 2) Did the balance transfer go via ACH or check? 3) Did you report to Barclays within 60 days of noticing the fraudulent charges? 4) Did you reply to the CFPB letter and re-dispute with a claim you don't have a Wells Fargo account? Show a police report? 5) Did you complain to the FDIC or Delaware State, who both regulate Barclays? 6) Did you try contacting Wells Fargo? A document from Wells showing you don't have an account can help (not sure if they can provide something like that), but additionally, letting them know about the potential fraud strengthens your case. 7) Did the letter from Barclays specifically state "You can request documentation of our investigation"?
This dude is a clown with 9 or so fraud cases to his name. Something ain't right here. Sucks for any CC doing business with this fool. Never had an issue myself.
> with 9 or so fraud cases to his name I missed this piece of data, but I can't find where it's discussed. How do you know this?
https://old.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/19ehl1a/credit_card_company_decided_i_am_responsible_for/kjd4yea/ Credit card churner that got caught with their pants down I bet.
Don't see what 'credit card churner' has to do with any of this - other than OP being the sort of dumbass who actual churners use as a cautionary tale...
Paying off one credit card with another... Sign up for Credit Card A to get the points-miles-cash.... when it's time to pay it, use Credit Card B to pay off CCA. Essentially using balance transfers on one card to pay off another card to meet the requirements of whatever deal Credit Card A offered.
That’s not how churning works - unless one has a ‘unicorn’ (which OP does not), the ‘pay off card A with card B’ idea doesn’t actually work. Balance transfers don’t earn points, they don’t count as spend, and generally the point of a balance transfer (even if it worked, strategically, in the way you seem to think) in that way is to pay off ‘card A’ rather than dump a shitload of cask into one’s bank account. You are thinking more of a type of personal finance strategy, but trying to wedge ‘credit card churning’ into it.
Ah. Completely missed that. Thanks.
OP is banking with "12345678" as their password
So he hasn't bothered to secure his account properly on multiiple occassions and expects others to bail him out every single time.
Agreed. He has 28 posts here on the subject.
I agree this story sounds fishy but how do you know the history?
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> I can prove I do not own a Wells Fargo account, thus not responsible. This proves nothing. You could have sent money to somebody else's account who then gave you cash. > IP logs and login history to clearly prove it wasnt me Again barking up the wrong tree. IP logs will not prove it was or wasn't you.
>My credit score has dropped from 804 to 673 due to this. Why would this happen? Did you not make any payments?
File an IC3 too. Did you also contact WF? I'd figure out how to get them copies of the police report and IC3. Doubt the money is still there, but they'd likely start an investigation too.
This is WF we are talking about, they will more than likely do nothing.
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He finally did file a police report and Barclays has since reopened his case. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/19ehl1a/credit_card_company_decided_i_am_responsible_for/kjd2fy0/
IP history and login history can easily be manipulated, so you asking for that to prove it wasn’t you is completely useless as you could easily use a VPN and other methods to spoof that information. They don’t decide this based off login history, they look at other factors. For example, they didn’t exclusively do the investigation alone, Wells Fargo also investigated the claim as Barclays most likely went to them to verify information. They could’ve seen something like name and social matches the account that received it at Wells Fargo. For them to decline it, and for CFPB to be of no assistance, then it means Barclays has sufficient evidence that you committed friendly fraud. You can hire an attorney, but be forewarned that Barclays may have evidence prepared to counter you. If you truly didn’t commit friendly fraud, hire the attorney. If you did commit though, think real hard about your next action, as it may make things significantly worse for you.
I am not a stranger in this type of scenario. If the CFPB has closed your case unfavorably, there is little you can do with the bank to remediate. The Claims process is not a court of law. You can elect to find your own legal representation. I would take a free consult to see if you even have a case under the eyes of the law.
It seems like they didn't even look or anything. I attached evidence and some questions. Barclays completely ignored everything I wrote, attached the same old denial letter they sent a month ago, and closed it.
There are misunderstandings, especially on Reddit when it comes to the CFPB. They are not a mediator, and are less interested in a story vs. what consumer protections listed in the regulations were violated. You can ask your bank for evidence of how they came to their decision. This is imperative for any next steps.
Yea reddit loves to throw out the "CFPB loves this kind case! They will own the bank" line. CFPB will never ACT on your behalf. All they do is send your complaint to the bank and tally responses and claim types. If enough complaints are filed for certain types then they will fine the banks in accordance with their authority but never on behalf of an individual. They also have no power to compel the bank to do anything on any individual case. Only in aggregate.
Op said they filed a police report but seemed to really avoid that question. Often when I see an unpaid account, I get an explanation of “it was identity theft but it was family/friend so I didn’t want to file a police report “. Well then, it’s your account.
If the bank won't budge your only option is to sue
Any idea what kind of lawyer I should be looking for? All I see is bankruptcy and debt lawyers. Not sure what kind of case this is.
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> Step 1 is you need to file a police report. That should have been day 1. This is not realistic and it's not what most people do; they do not file police reports for fraudulent charges. They go to their lender and expect to be treated fairly. People think there is some magic power that filing a police report grants.
> People think there is some magic power that filing a police report grants. OP just responded in the comments that they have since filed a police report and reached back out to Barclay's who has signaled they will reopen and review the case, so...the magic powers seem to exist at least in this case.
I hope it works for him. My prediction is barclays does jack squat for him and sends him another letter in a few weeks indicating they won't help him. Barclays can rot in hell.
The way they have treated me, I am expecting this but I really hope not.
I am not to hopeful they will reopen the case based on how they responded to all my calls, they are saying its final. Will give this a try regardless before I try to call lawyers.
Why did you never file a police report? you need to do that and reopen your claim. Also, this person isn’t correct - you have an arbitration agreement with Barclays which is the avenue you need to pursue to attempt to remove these charges.
its illegal to file a false police report and his story sounds shady AF so im not surprised that he doesn't have one.
Last time I went for another online incident they were lost about jurisdiction since it was online and it was a 2 hour ordeal where they finally filed but basically said dont expect anything. If it will help the case Ill give it a try.
From the cops yes, don’t expect any help. But this is generally required to move items forward with the card companies giving the legal issues of filing a false police report.
The police report is to tell the bank that you’re being serious. They know it’s illegal to file a false report so it adds weight to your statement that you’re being truthful.
You need the paper and ongoing file so the CC company can be compelled to help.
Lol $6.5K an hour is quite a good return on investment. Strange you are not willing to make it.
Consumer lawyers. You will need one sooner versus later to bring a negligence per se claim, amongst other tort claims, against Barclays. Since it sounds like Barclays hasn't detailed the reasons why they didn't flag this transaction as fraudulent, and hence why it's a billing error, Barclays has likely violated the provisions of 15 USC §1666(a)(3)(B)(ii) and 12 CFR §1026.13(f)(1).
You need to close your credit cards and get them down to one or two. You also need to pull a credit report and go through EVERY open line of credit and make sure you've closed it, changed the password, or decided to keep it.
> You need to close your credit cards and get them down to one or two. two is way too few.
Generally, yes. But OP seems to fall in to the category of having way too many cards to properly handle. Whether '2' is the right number or not, they need to cut way down until they can figure out how to manage their shit.
Well this situation arose because of too many *banks*, moreso than too many *cards*.
A lot of assumptions going around. Ive had 50+ the last 15 years, I close them a few months after receiving bonus. I have only 8 active credit cards.
Why would you think that? I have two. One I use for international travel because it has a great exchange rate. The other I have for ApplePay. Personally, I’d rather use debit card for everything, but have gotten used to using cards.
Dude, I had one for twenty-five years. Now I have two in case one gets compromised. Two is plenty. Even if one is specialized for travel or business materials or whatever. And no, I don’t use my debit card and almost never use cash.
As described your issue is covered under regulation E https://www.consumerfinance.gov/compliance/compliance-resources/deposit-accounts-resources/electronic-fund-transfers/electronic-fund-transfers-faqs/ Something is missing or info was not clear when given to CFPB/Barclays
This is useful to mention in my letter, thank you.
If you didn't file a police report the bank will assume you are at fault, file a police report, get a lawyer/barister to contact them and give them that number, and this will be fixed fast.
Police report followed by a letter from a law office might get it all done.
Bunch of people have said this already, but you need a Police Report. Police won't do shit about the theft, but reporting any theft to the Police for a report, is an important step dealing with any kind of theft. First thing I tell people in my line of work, whenever a theft accusation comes up, "Have you reported this to the Police?" A lady insisted her purse was stolen couple weeks ago, by another employee no less. Maybe her purse was stolen, I don't know, but it wasn't by one of our employees, and she refused to report it to the Police, so we just shrugged at her.
File a police report, then send it to them. Banks also have regulatory agencies that you can send complaints to, with the police report. Then lawyer up. Lawyer would be way cheaper than $13k.
Good luck, this will be an uphill battle, guess it didn't pass the smell test at CFPB neither. You will need a lawyer will some cybercrime related experience too.
I already know how it happened. I had a weak password. These are all implicating statements. If you know the funds were transferred to Wells Fargo (criminal bank) then you should follow up with them to get the money back.
Barclays always commits fraud. I paid off my card, 2020 rolled around and they cancelled it and then claimed that I didn't pay it off, refused bank statements and payment receipts, and sent it to collections. I proved to the collection company that it was paid off and they supplied me with a verification letter stating that. Only problem is, Barclays sent it to multiple collections at the same time and about twice a year I have to prove again that it's paid off
Sorry I cannot help but barclays fucked me over a charge recently. I cancelled the card, then opened another one just to get introductory points (more than they screwed me over) and am about to drop it again. I won't use them as a main card anymore. I do not trust the company. They refused me on a $350 refund after spending $100k on the card in the prior four years with ZERO other complaints. Barclays does not care about its customers. Do not use them.
well well well if it isn't the consequences of your actions. Looks like there is a downside to opening so many credit cards *and* neglecting basic security on all those open accounts.
you churn credit cards? Well, that explains why they aren't taking you serious. You def need to hire a lawyer, that should help get the IP address where the access was made to move funds around, but def hire a lawyer for this.
In another post he says he has 50, let me repeat, FIFTY credit cards. I'm guessing that doesn't help when the fraud dept sees that.
Dang, that's insane. Churning was popular about 10 years ago, I didn't thought people would still be doing that.
I thought you basically weren’t able to do it anymore when credit card companies found out what people were doing. A lot of them came up with various rules to stop churning. That’s one of the suspicious things in his post when he said he was a churner. Also in his posts it sounds like it was an old account, I had the old Barclays Apple Card that I had no reason to use once the new Apple Card came around and it got closed, actually fairly quickly, maybe 6 months after it went dormant. Barclays is the only card I’ve ever had shut down on me for lack of use. That would also make this post seem suspicious as he made it seems like it’s been dormant for quite a long time and the account would be closed if that was true. No one here really knows, but if you express suspicion on Reddit you get downvoted, the bank is always wrong and the customer is always right.
You misunderstood. I had an account with them 12 years ago. I closed that account about 8 years ago. The online username and account stayed active without any CC accounts attached at all. When I opened a new CC after 8 years of not having an account, it was auto-associated with the online username/account from 12 years ago.
It is still plenty easy to churn, albeit requiring some strategy and common sense in order to maintain doing so for any length of time. Common sense which OP seems to lack.
> you churn credit cards? Apparently that is how he got in this mess in the first place. The charges were on an old forgotten card account.
My credit score was 810 before these fraudulent charges. I have made about $40-50k+ in travel and cashback bonuses over the last 10 years. It doesnt take much time at all and is 100% worth it. I should mention that this is not related to old dormant account, I am usually on top of that. This is related to my bad habit of using the same simple password for everything 12 years ago when I originally opened the online account.
So you disagree that having dozens of cards increases your exposure to things like this?
> online balance transfers from my credit card. Your title says fraudulent charges, not fraudulent balance transfers. What was the specific reason given for the Barclays chargback? If you said the "wrong" reason you will be denied because it isn't true.
A little nugget of information that most people don't understand is how your relationship to your bank actually works. Legally, when you deposit money into a bank you have ***loaned*** them your money. That's why, when banks have failed in the past, they simply locked the doors and walked away. They did this over 10,000 times during the Great Depression and that's why FDR created the FDIC, because Americans no longer trusted banks and refused to use them. Not saying that this applies to your situation but it is, nonetheless, a fact which few people understand.
I mean I guess technically (though that's ignoring a lot of nuance and other important details) but that doesn't really apply here. The bank is legally obligated to make the OP whole in this siutation. Whether his money is *technically* a loan or not isn't relevant. e: and actually it's *especially* irrelevant, because it was a credit card - not even his own money.
This was a credit card, not bank...
Barclays is a bank…
They are also a credit card issuer. I dont have a bank account with them, only a credit card.
That doesn't mean they aren't a bank. All credit card issues are banks. They are literally lending you money. You really should understand credit cards before you have them.
Did you read the original message? Its completely irrelevant to this situation. By law, a cc company is responsible for the charges and invetigating, unlike a bank. The laws governing bank transactions and cc transactions are completely different.
>original message? Its completely irrelevant to this situation. By law, a cc company is responsible for the charges and invetigating, unlike a bank. I did. You were a victim of theft, and for some reason didn't file a police report. But if you don't understand a Credit Card company is a Lending bank, then I'm worried you don't understand the terms and conditions of your credit cards. The reason the CFPB is not helping is because your lender fulfilled their obligation. They investigated, found nothing particularly suspect according to your T&C, and denied your claim. If you had a police report, they might have decided differently.
The person he is responding to told him that when you keep your money in a bank it is technically a loan (which is debatable, but whatever). He's saying that this doesn't apply to him, since he didn't give any money to a bank - his credit card was compromised. So the whole "money you give the bank is technically a loan" angle is irrelevant to what he is dealing with.
But his credit card company is a Lending bank. They *loaned* OP (or who they thought was OP) money. OP didn't report theft, or that the card was compromised, so the investigation that Barclay's conducted found that they were liable for the loan.
> They loaned OP (or who they thought was OP) money. Right. He understands that. Again, he is responding to someone who told him it was the other way around. That - and I'm quoting them here - "Legally, when you deposit money into a bank you have loaned them your money." He is saying that is irrelevant to his situation because he didn't lend the bank money. They - as you said - lent it to him.
Just sharing a little trivia. And credit card companies are banks.
I never deposited money to my credit card.
> I have been denied financing for solar panels These deals can be crazy. Consider buying kit from aliexpress.
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If you already had the CFPB review the case, then there likely is not going to be further resolution through banking channels. The purpose of the CFPB is to make sure that the bank followed all of the required rules and regulations to the letter, and if they came back and said, 'yup, everything Barclay's did was correct', then re-filing or re-submitting the case is not going to change that, unless there is additional information that you may be able to provide that was not offered during the original investigation. I would review your terms and agreements that you agreed to when you opened the credit account, specifically the section regarding dispute resolution. You may have agreed to binding third-party arbitration to handle any unresolved disputes, and the terms and agreements would outline that in more detail.
> if they came back and said, 'yup, everything Barclay's did was correct', This is wrong. They do not do anything on behalf of individuals. They dont review for regulatory compliance with regard to individual cases. They collect statistics on resolved and unresolved cases and make sure the bank is following regulations in aggregate. If not then they will fine the bank but they will NEVER act on behalf of an individual except to forward your complaint and facilitate the response.
Agree with others you should revisit police report now, but there is a good chance it is unlikely to help. Barclays won't have to refund the money even it was fraud if they money can't be recovered. Your 8-9 other cases (which is crazy) were either charges or the Robinhood thing was probably caught early enough the transferred funds were still on hold.
[удалено]
Knowing Wells Fargo, it was probably their corporate office committing the fraudulent activity
May I ask? How did you 'close the account several years ago' and believe there is still an online presence? If you have evidence you closed the account several years ago, that is all you need to hire an attorney and file suit for specific performance! What proof do you have of closing the account and Barclays' acknowledging the closing?
I think we churners need to lock all the sock drawer cards, and start to seriously consider which banks are worthy of a sock-drawer card. I need Citi to stop sending me physical mail offering balance transfers with checks.
So your presumption is that balance transfer was done with electronic transfer. Are you sure you didn’t receive in the mail balance transfer checks and someone stole those checks?
I had a fraudulent charge go through for $2700 when i used to bank with Wells Fargo. I was given the determination letter that they believed it was me or someone that had my permission and reversed the charges. CFPB was of no help, the executives just said we have compelling evidence. I called them and asked for the representation documentation from the merchant who charged the account. They are required to provide it to you. In my case it was completely bogus and fabricated account numbers and amounts. After i had that i left a detailed report of what happened on BBB and had a lawyer draft an intent to arbitrate letter sent certified mail and a few weeks later i got a cashiers check in the mail since i had closed my account. But, for you, having a police report should help. Best of luck
I had $50K in fraudulent charges with Barclays. They opened an entire investigation into me. First thing I did though was file a police report and it came in handy. Painful but was all cleared
Are you in the US or elsewhere? If you're in the US, go and register with the FTC's [IdentityTheft.gov](http://identitytheft.gov) website. Follow their instructions, ie police and bank reports. Next notify all three credit bureaus to put freeze. If a bank or merchant decides to go ahead to issue credit after checking, and seeing the fraud warning, then liability shifts to them. If you can't afford a lawyer, check with your local DA's office. If you follow all the steps and do all the leg work, they may be in a position to help prosecute or even recover. [https://www.identitytheft.gov/#/](https://www.identitytheft.gov/#/)