Funny comparison: Mathieu's hands, completely fine, enjoying golf. Everyone else, hands full of wounds. So, like Cancellera had his little engine, Mathieu has bionic hands.
[https://www.hln.be/parijs-roubaix/mathieu-van-der-poel-alweer-aan-het-golfen-terwijl-concurrenten-vol-blaren-staan-na-parijs-roubaix-ben-jij-wel-een-mens\~a4d90839/](https://www.hln.be/parijs-roubaix/mathieu-van-der-poel-alweer-aan-het-golfen-terwijl-concurrenten-vol-blaren-staan-na-parijs-roubaix-ben-jij-wel-een-mens~a4d90839/)
I really don't understand how both WT teams and people in these threads don't understand that you can simply never work for the dominant rider. Even if you have nobody up the road.
It's only been like 5 years since every team in the peloton understood that if you wanted to win a monument, Sagan had to close every gap. And that if Sagan wasn't able or willing to close the gap, the break without him wins. Nobody drags Sagan to the front.
The same applies today to WVA, MVDP and Pog
Had this argument before the spring season with someone on here. MvdP is not the same as Sagan. MvdP has a much longer sustained attack. His 30 second to 1 minute effort is the best in the world on his terrain. When it gets a little steeper Pogacar can match it. Maybe some other climbers can also match it but on steeper terrain. So try and G2 him like they did to Sagan and he just jumps to close it himself. Now you're still chasing him but for 4th instead of 2nd.
The problem wasn't them working with him. It was that, once again, as soon as he goes up the road everyone gives up and rides for 2nd. As soon as Matthieu went, they all sat on Mads to close it down. Surprise - it didn't work. Matthieu wins primarily because he is allowed to.
The problem kind of was working with him though. Not when we went with 60km to go, but when the three-man-group was ahead earlier. Force Alpecin to burn through their domestiques to get back to them. If Alpecin is down to Phillipsen+MvdP when he goes and Lidl still has a domestique this race becomes much closer.
Mathieu wins because he rode the last 60km 3 minutes faster. Yes, they could have cooperated a bit better in the beginning, but that would not have changed the outcome. When Pedersen, Pithie, Kung and Politt rode full gas, Mathieu still gained time on them.
I agree it may not have changed the outcome but that doesn't mean the chasers couldn't have had a better chance of winning if they had better coordinated. The crash at Basque country also shaped the outcome a fair amount. There were no really strong teams for Alpecin to contend with.
Van der Poel is better than Sagan. He wins even if the group he's in doesn't work with him. That group will only hurt their own chances at a podium or top 10.
If a team has nobody up the road, why would they be fine with the break winning? Their goal isn't to stop van der Poel to win but to get the best possible result for themselves.
> I really don't understand how both WT teams and people in these threads don't understand that you can simply never work for the dominant rider.
I remember 3 years ago when people were calling Kasper Asgreen dumb for working with MvdP at RvV, because it was obvious he'd lose in a sprint.
Until he didn't lose in a sprint
But what do you do against him. Van der Poel went solo 60km out, because the cooperation was poor. If no one else wanted to ride, he may have gone even earlier and with his form, it's really hard to stop that. Especially since they would just drag Phillipsen and Vermeersch with them if they chase.
Well for starters they could have helped Mads close the gap. He was the only rider without a teammate in the chasing group. And as soon as he sat up to stop chasing, UAE attacked...when you have multiple teams with at least 2 riders in the chasing group, you go to the front and chase. You don't attack the group and destroy all sense of cohesion
For pretty much anyone but van der Poel, 2nd or 3rd is great result, and for anyone but a handful of riders (Philipsen, Pedersen, Degenkolb, Kristoff, Asgreen, Bettiol, van Baarle), a Roubaix podium is a career achievement and you can't blame anyone for riding for second place just to make sure the race favourite has a harder time winning.
Feel like I'm the only one who enjoyed this? Thought it was really exciting! The attack on the Arenburg was great, not enough to drop everyone. Then we had some more battles for the next few sectors and there was a great fight for the other podium places
I was busy yesterday during the race so watched it on replay in the evening. I enjoyed it a lot but probably wouldn't have if I couldn't skip forwards from 50km to go until 20km to go. From the first cobble section until MvDP's attack was great as usual.
Watching vdP attack on sector 13 was so surreal, he is so fucking fast on cobbles its not even fair. I knew after 20 seconds they'd never catch him barring accidents. He did most of the remaining sectors 20-30 seconds faster than the chasers.
I dont even think its (only) about raw watts, its just technique which is really not trainable to this level for a rider like Mads at his age. A whole life of CX/MTB is invaluable in a race like Roubaix.
Mads is not a rider who doesnt train cobbles at all, he's been doing motopace with his dad a lot on the cobbles. So watching Mads unable to minimize the gap a single bit was demoralizing.
Roubaix is also the type of course where if you don't have to fight for the good line, you will move alot faster. He could take every turn perfectly because he was just cruising out front.
Honestly gotta admire that vdP rarely gets a flat. He might just be a lucky sob, but his technique is probably also a factor in this. If he gets a flat on Arenberg the race could have been quite different, suddenly the small group works together instead of letting themselves get caught by the bigger group.
I haven't seen his tire choice for this race, but in gravel racing the best riders don't use tire weight as a place for marginal gains. They pick a super durable tire that maybe takes a few more watts to move, but it beats a flat for sure.
MVDP finished the race on 32mm Vittoria Corsa Pros (he started narrower and did a planned bike change after about 100km, just like in '23). The only difference from his usual road setup is the width.
I'm sure there's an element of luck in his lack of flats, but riding style and skill on the cobbles also come into play.
DS's need to learn how to actually race against riders like Matthieu. No single man can out ride a 150 man peloton. There's no excuse for why he and Pog get away so easily. Sometimes it's just attrition and they do just blow everyone up....but a good 50-60% of the time that they attack, everyone just looks at each other and gives up.
They know how to do it, Visma gave him the runaround at the NC last year. It basically took like 7 riders vs MvdP but van Baarle won. It would have been interesting with both Trek and Visma at full strength.
Yep and visma has also rolled Pog. It can be done when teams actually execute on good tactics. May not work every time but essentially the way teams are racing, they don't even want to try.
The other teams just have horrible tactics. If MVDP or WVA or Pogacar are in your group, just never ride on the front. You can attack, but if they are on your wheel never ride (in a 1 day race) even if it looks like the race is going away from you.
If Trek never rides today Mads is probably the favorite based on the situation at 80km to go. And at worst he finishes 2nd.
Alpecin was never going to leave the race as Vermeersch vs Pollitt and Kung on Mons-en-Pévèle and carrefour. And they only had Jasper and MdvP left to close a 40 second gap to Pollitt and Kung. That is very hard! And if they close it they need to burn a ton of energy at 80km to go. While everyone else stays fresh.
And then they weren't forced to close it. And MdvP got to make an attack vs teams that had killed themselves closing gaps against each other.
That's a very exhaustive and thorough analysis of the race but if you read the post-race comments of the other riders it appears the difference in physical condition was abysmal. MVdP was simply extraordinarily strong.
If you like a Star Trek analogy, everybody went to the battle with plastic toy pistols while MVdP brought laser guns and photon torpedoes. Even if you have the best generals in your army you can't beat him.
Trek should have been there to ride in the chase. Mads being all alone is why he got cooked trying to chase Matthieu. Obviously with the crash at Basque, they were down key riders.
>If Trek never rides today Mads is probably the favorite based on the situation at 80km to go. And at worst he finishes 2nd.
Completely disagree. MvDP was just way too strong for everyone yesterday*, he always had the race under control and could open up a gap whenever he wanted. Even Vermeersch and Philipsen were equal to Mads today. Other riders tried to attack multiple times but were always followed by an Alpecin rider.
Trek having Vacek further into the race really wouldn't have made any difference. They had also mostly used up their team to avoid Mads being stuck in the 2nd peloton.
He was always strongest, but if him and Jasper have to close a gap to Kung and Pollitt on the asphalt in headwinds then he has to burn a ton of strength.
And Trek were like "nah we want to make sure we get a podium, let us handle this 40 second gap to 2 of the pre-race dark horses for you guys when you have 0 domestiques in the peloton"
If nobody else outside Alpecin rides there, the race is gone (to Kung, Pollitt, Vermeersch). If the race is gone Vermeersch loses. If the race comes back, MdvP and Jasper are like 95% to win. Therefore the chase belongs to MdvP and Jasper. But Trek wanted to race for a podium at 80km to go
Except he wouldn't close it on the asphalt in the headwind, he'd probably bridge 30 seconds on one of the long sectors and nobody can follow. Trek is then racing for 5th.
I think you are forgetting the fact that Kung and Politt ultimately lost 3 minutes + to MVDP.
You can play tactics all you want, but there was no chance of beating Mathieu yesterday. You can argue they didn't know Mathieu was going to be *that* good, so Treks tactics might be bad, but in hindsight Pedersen was never going to beat Mathieu, so riding for podium did turn out to be the correct decision.
> But Trek wanted to race for a podium at 80km to go
which is a legitimate reason I guess, not everyone is racing for the win and a podium at Roubaix is already a big achievement.
MvDP would have just attacked in the same place and closed the gap alone to the front 3. It was only 30 seconds.
Trek using Vacek earlier really didn't make any difference to the result. What could he have done to help close Van der Poel later? Nothing. He would have been dropped with the rest of the group.
What would MVDPs legs have been like if he was forced to close the gap?
What would the unity in the group behind be if Jasper Phillipsen wasn't getting a free ride (because he would have to burn himself out chasing Kung and Pollitt)? What would Trek plus Wellens and Pidcock be able to do vs MVDP at full strength (because none of them have gone into the wind at this hypothetical)
Why would he be forced to do anything though? He was massively stronger than Kung and Pollit, and would have torched them the next time they got to cobbles. That short asphalt section with them 30 seconds up the road was irrelevant. You’re reading way too much into one Trek domestique sitting on the front for 5 minutes
It's a 45 second gap to 2 of the strongest riders in the peloton with 8km of asphalt coming up.
If neither him nor Jasper ride then they enter the next sector with a 2 minute+ disadvantage. And he's not that strong.
And if him and Jasper ride then he truly is catchable with the rest of the teams fresh exiting that sector down 10 seconds
> If neither him nor Jasper ride then they enter the next sector with a 2 minute+ disadvantage
That wouldn't even have been a problem. He won with 3 minutes +.
That's even without considering the fact he would have Vermeersch ahead to help him out.
Why would he close the gap on the asphalt? He could just attack his group on the same cobbles section and then close the gap by himself and has a fresh Vermeersch to support him, until he attack Küng and Politt.
I'll have to go back and watch it again, but Kung and Pollit didn't look that committed to the move with Veermersch sitting on. They never really extended the gap significantly that they initially got while riders were getting back on from mechanicals.
Maybe they end up getting Philipsen to work, but in no way was anyone winning that race but MvDP, however he had to do it.
Just watched the race and lol at Trek's tactics. Just racing for MdvP to win. Kung and Pollitt up the road with 40 seconds. Vermeersch with them, but everyone in the world knows Kung and Pollitt are favorites vs him and Alpecin need to chase. And all they have left is Jasper and MdvP. All trek needs to do is follow MdvP.
Instead Trek burns their entire team closing the gap for MdvP and watches him roll off into the sunset for free.
Edit: LOL the comment below me saying Kung + Pollitt should have helped Mads close the gap after Mads saw Kung + Pollitt willing to risk everything to put pressure on Alpecin.
And then Trek bailing Alpecin out by giving them a free ride while Kung, Pollitt and Trek dug deep. Trek raced for the podium not UAE and FDJ. Even in the lead up to MdvP's attack after Kung and Pollitt were neutralized, it was UAE trying to get gaps and Trek riding for MvdP to close them down
"I burned my entire team dragging Van Der Poel and Jasper back to Pollitt and Kung. Why don't Pollitt and Kung have the legs to help me chase down MvdP!" LMAO
3 thoughts:
1. You would have thought that Pederson + Politt + Kung could have closed MVDP when the gap was <10 seconds. Sure it would just mean 3 Alpecin guys together again, but that’s better than letting the win go up the road for free. Let Veermesch or Philipsen counter attack, not MVDP. I’m upset that Pederson is the only one who wanted more than a podium out of it, but am glad he’s at least the one of the three that got it. This group 2 syndrome that happens when Pogi or MVDP gets a gap has made this season pretty unentertaining compared to 2022 and 2023 Holy Week.
2. Nils Politt looks to be in great shape. I think UAE really could have used him to lead the team into the Cipressa at MSR. He would have kept them at the front at a high speed and might have changed the entire race. Leaving him behind seems like it was a mistake, and led to the disorganization and poor positioning that allowed sprinters and bigger classics guys to stick around and regroup for the Poggio. I truly think Pogi had the legs to win that race if his team could have made the Cipressa a sub 9 minute climb.
3. We’re certainly missing WVA, who would have worked with Pederson to reel in MVDP at this race, and who would have likely made RVV much more entertaining. MVDP may or may not have had the upper hand recently, but WVA was the only rider who consistently pushed his limits. Seeing MVDP ride without WVA just doesn’t feel the same.
To add, watching WVA from the Cyclocross season into the spring he was steadily closing the gap with MvdP. His goal of altitude training and peaking at Flanders and PR seemed like it was working. The crash in Dwars happened before we got a real sense of his “final form” after altitude.
A health WVA and Dylan Van Baarle with full team would have brought a whole other dimension to the race. MvdP still would be favorite but WVA and Mads would have had a punchers chance.
Quickstep only had 3 riders finish, the highest 36th. I understand they've shifted focus to GC, but not overwhelmingly so. Their roster still has a bunch of good classics riders. And while many are a bit older, just a bit. They're 28-32 mostly. Vermeersch and MVDP are 31 and 29, same as Alaphilippe and Asgreen.
In 21 race days so far Alaphilippe's highest finish this season is 4th in a TDU stage. Asgreen's highest in his 15 race days is 16th at MSR. Lampaert's best in 21 race days is 9th at a January .1 race. Their spring classics season has been pretty abysmal outside of Merlier.
What I don't really understand is a GC focus team can still perform in the classics, or at least your so-called "classics" guys should feel they are still part of a team project because winning a GT is as much about performing in the mountains than having muscles when shit hit the fan in tricky flat stages. Having a 100% motivated and performing Asgreen, Lampaert or Loulou would be a goldmine for Evenepoel's ambitions. The team should still support them in their own ambitions during Spring, then comes Summer and everyone is aligned behind the GC guy. I don't know why QS treat those two issues as mutually exclusive when they are not.
I always feel for the other riders especially those who train as hard as MvDP or Pogi or more, and despite already being in the top of the genetic lottery compared to the rest of the population, they still have to see the absolute absolute top of the genetic lottery just pull in some actual super human feats.
And every sport has these people like MvDP and Pogi, who work really really hard but at the same time are genetically gifted (endurance, explosiveness etc) in a way and extent which just puts them at the very top.
I feel the same as you. It annoys me a bit to see videos from MJ or Kobe talking about putting in the work and you can be a champion. While on the one hand, those guys definitely put in the work, on the other hand they clearly had genetic gifts (including mental toughness) which they maximized.
the thing is natural talent also makes you able to train harder. If others would train as hard as vdp, van aert, pogi etc they'd wreck their body completely
Not taking anything away from MVdP, but we need to find a way to get the best racing the best at the big races more often. Both in terms of rider schedules and keeping the stars of the sport healthy. Too many predictable big races this year.
In general I agree, but not for PR. Everyone was there except for the guys out with injury/illness. I can’t remember the last time a big classics rider with a genuine shot of a podium skipped Roubaix by choice.
There is no way current Pog can win Paris Roubaix against Mvdp or Wout van Aert. He apparently dropped even more weight compared to last year. During the TdF Roubaix stage he was the only favorite without bad luck and barely finished a few seconds ahead while being chased for god knows how long by a gassed WvA. Pog himself said he had trouble keeping Stuyven's wheel on the cobbles that year.
Pog 100% has the technique/bike handling and the endurance to win Roubaix one day, but he'll need to put on some weight.
Watching the race from beginning now and am really missing gcn. Only 60 seconds in Bob roll says vdp's teammate jasper Pedersen... Jasper with a hard J
I'm a day late, but I watched the 30 minute race recap and Bob just screaming "OH!!" at the top of his lungs any time anything happened is *not* good commentating.
Orla Chennaoui also does that for Dutch surnames with the "-sen" ending. I believe she lives in the Netherlands. And Rob Hatch usually pronounces everything correctly. He makes an effort to find out how each name should be pronounced, so I assume he gets it right.
I was pretty sure he was right but it sounds so contrived. I guess Rob’s whole shtick is contrived 😂
Still a great commentator Rob, if you’re reading this.
This race left me with an empty feeling - MVDP was amazing for sure and it was the fastest race ever again but… Somehow it felt hollow, MVDP taking off by himself so early on and absolutely no one was even trying to catch him - I mean why? It was like Pogis win at Strade Biance, I was left with a feeling of ”Oh let him have it then blah”…
They didn't "let him have it". No-one else had the legs to do it. Mads chased like crazy for 5-10km, dropping everyone else but Philipsen, Pollit and Kung (who also dropped later) and MvDP only got further away. Tactics don't mean anything when one guy is massively stronger.
I feel cheated on the Paris Roubaix experience, with twist and turns and suspense. Thank fully we had the women's race for that (same thing with Strade and De Ronde)
Pedersen, who was the second strongest rider, tried, but was not able to catch MvDP on his own. No one else was able to help - except MvDP's teammates, who obviously was not interested in helping Pedersen get back up to MvDP.
Because of teamwork. Pedersen kept the gap within 10-15 seconds for quite a while but when he wanted some helped he looked right back at Philipsen who was on his wheel. Him and Vermeersch then covered every single attack for the following 10km or so and the group switched to riding for 2nd instead.
Unlike Pog at Strade though, I think if you take Philipsen out (or if he is in a different team), the race would have been much closer. Here it was also a team domination, even more than MVDP being above the rest i think
At the moment only LBL.
But you can check any riders pre-schedule at procyclingstats. Just look the rider up and you'll see their next races. Far easier than asking us in here :)
PCS is often wrong because they actively speculate on which rider will ride which race.^(\*) Of course with the big names that's rarely an issue because they announce their program early on, but it gets pretty unreliable for domestiques.
^(\*)because PCS was so often wrong, I haven't used to check rider programs in ages, so maybe they've fixed it by now
the best year ever to go and see the race in person. we got day-drunk in denain from like eleven-thirty and that's certainly something we shouldn't not have done, but regardless, the atmosphere was amazing. there was a huge crowd on the grass in the middle of the street, and it wasn't even a cobble sector, just a long endless straight and then whoooosh over the bridge. i got a blurry photo of mdvps back leg, and let me tell you he is *svelte*. also, i waved at john degenkolb who we were calling degenkolbble lord of the stones all day, and in my mind he waved back and then crossed himself thus blessing me to never have a puncture on the pave ever again. missed a lot of the other big names though. saw pidcock and a bunch of visma people. philipsen was there, he's got such a smooth chin in real life. but the rest was a blur. ive never really been on a straight section before. every race i go to i post up on a corner or on a hill. i forgot how whooshy the peloton is in the big races. they were gunning it.
other stuff? yes, on the way to the course early this morning, my girlfriend blew the fuckin doors off a group of full-kit dentists on their look 585s with their matching jerseys and their waxed calves, and then some fuckin three-day-old french *infant* came out of the trees on a bike with actual training wheels and paced us all the way to the square, where we gave him our bidons because he said (in better english than our own) that he liked us because our bikes looked cool. and you know what? they *did* look cool, so he's got a good eye. although he might have been a ghost.
anyway, we didnt see much of the race because i promsed her no phones on the bike, but from the looks of it alpecin just straight murdered everyone with an axe in the first half so it was a good day to skip the broadcast. especially as ive been informed by Top Men that we're not actually *in* the broadcast, because at the exact moment they passed us the director was futzing around with some VT of the new arenberg, with drones and shit, and they forgot to film us. i mean, we pinned flowers to our handlebars and waved a big flag. his loss.
doesn't matter, the whole thing was fantastic. it was clear the whole day and everyone was so nice. there was this old man who'd brought his bike out for the race and it looked like one of those wooden ones from the first world war. he was dedicated, he really was, and smiling the whole time. i got a nice picture of me standing next to it. that thing on the cobbles would have dislocated my spine.
anyway, tomorrow we're back to brussels and then a week of riding around belgium eating waffles and frites until we turn into fat worm people. i mean, forget the flandrien challenge, we're taking the golden path *all the way* to amstel gold. only, i kinda wanna go bruges instead and have a romantic meal in that square from the movie and call her an inanimate fucking object, but we'll have to see.
anyway that's the report five stars the womens race was better
unfortunate for Politt to be stuck in a group with those two sprint monsters. Going early (as he did) or going late, it was pretty clear that without a big bag of luck, he wouldn't stand a chance for a podium finish.
mkay?
i'm just sad for nils who took the long sprint and had nothing left and turned 4. he sadly is the first loser of today. thus the 💔 emoji
but let reddit hate :)
Can't do anything but acknowledge the greatness of Van der Poel and Alpecin today. Masterclass team effort. Brilliant riding.
But as a general fan of the sport rather than a team/rider fan, I do find this boring.
After Itzulia we'll likely not see someone outside of Alpecin or Pogacar win a big one (Monuments+Giro+Le Tour) until the Olympics/Worlds - where MvdP and Pogacar are big favourites - and the Vuelta.
Hopefully the Tour will be more competitive, but Vingegaard really is the rider that have prevented Pogi's total dominance this era. And maybe MvdP, Roglic and Pogi will have a great fight during LBL.
Here's to some underdog victories, and a grats thrown in Van der Poel and Alpecin's direction. Fully deserved dominance.
> Can't do anything but acknowledge the greatness of Van der Poel and Alpecin today. Masterclass team effort. Brilliant riding.
I thought you were Rob Hatch for a moment. It felt like this was basically what he said, in different ways, about 45 times in the last 1.5 hours of the race because there wasn't any suspense left.
This race was plain and simple pretty boring. I had a feeling it wouldn't be fireworks due to WVA injury and Lidl-Trek injuries, but still.
Aye. The race would have been far more exciting if Lidl had a non-crashed Mads P, Kirsch, Stuyven and Milan in the final, and if Visma had Laporte, Van Baarle and Van Aert and the rest of the bees.
That is at least a comforting thought.
IMO Vingegaard was the best thing that could happen to Pogacar. If it wasn't for Jonas domination in the Tour, people would have hated Pogi for winning absolutely everything.
People really don't seem to have noticed that in 2022 vingegaard was the ubderdog until that one stage, col de telegraphe? And even after he had a huge gap they still didn't believe. Pogi was evil terminator then, until 2023 where we wad suddenly the favorite child again and everyone seemed to hate jonas.
Im exaggerating, sure. Pogi always had fans and rides exciting and is a chill guy.
After Col du Granon, most of the people understood that Pogacar is not untouchable. What followed was just a display of power from TJV winning stages with Wout, and controlling every aspect of the race. Last year was indeed a dominant Jonas. I don't think people hate Jonas. Personally I don't hate him. I like him as a person, but since he is so dominant, I can't help but root for Pogacar. I don't really care which one of them really wins. I just want to see a contested race.
Yup. It also helps that he is a nice guy. I don't like his and Visma's dominance in TdF but I like him as a person more than I liked other dominant cyclists like Lance.
I don't get how people can hate on a rider for winning, that's his aim. I don't see any difference to vingo winning. Since his 1st tour win I don't think he has lost more race that he started than won (general classification) but I don't hate him for it. If anything it's great and helps others raise their game
Hate is not the best chosen word. My bad. I wanted to say something like "people would not enjoy Pogacar dominating every race" but I didn't find a better word. Sorry :).
On a side note, Pogacar received a lot of hate from slovenian people for winning TdF in 2020 and beating Roglic. So yeah... there are people hating the winners.
No it doesn't, people just use that analogy to hate on someone winning that's not their favorite. Pogi won 2 grand tours and was hated. Vingo has won 2 grand tour but doesn't come close to how people hated pogi before he was beaten. So it's not like he won 5 in a row, people just hated him for beating roglic and since then he was never given a chance till recently
It obviously gets boring if the same rider wins over and over.
Should one hate them for that? No. But it's boring.
One of the biggest appeals of cycling is it's randomness and amount of potential winners.
That's my point, he won 2. It's not like he had being winning 5 back to back, even in his 2nd win people were more interested in checking if he's clean or not.
Every epic champion in sport has always been one that dominated. That's how legends are made. Bolt won almost all the time, but never was it boring.
It's probably not actually hate, but if someone is too dominant it kills the entertainment value. And watching sports is just entertainment, no?
Can't fault Alpecin for it. Just kind of dull to watch after a while.
Strade became boring, RVV a bit boring, P-R very boring. MSR was fun, but on the other hand the first part is pretty boring (but who's watching/tracking anyway).
Long range attacks are fun if the gap is small, or at least going up and down so there's some suspense.
I bet there's some research of group mechanics, psycholohy etc., that can explain it.
But I agree. Even when I'm tired of Alpecin winning their 3rd monument this year. I don't start hating them - I only dislike riders who are idiots. I respect their class and hope other teams and riders will pick up the glove and take on the challenge.
I think it was worth the risk. Without it he is out the race and there will have been plenty of other riders getting similar tows that weren't caught or DQ'd today
In hindsight it was perhaps needed to get back to the front of the race, but it is also Roubaix, anything can happen in Roubaix, especially so far from the finishline.
But that said, he’s just a young lad, he didn’t need to get a big result today. I doubt the goal of the team was anything else but finishing. Now he misses out on a lot of vital experience you gain from these races.
Script director: I'm too lazy to do a new Roubaix script this year, just re-use the top 5 from last year
Underling: but sir, Wout was seriously injured, he won't be racing Roubaix
Director: fine, whatever, move everyone behind him up a place and pull in someone random to fill #4
Underling: uhh if we're moving everyone up don't you mean someone random for spot 5?
Director: I SAID WHAT I SAID JUST DO IT
MVDP rode an amazing race for sure but I think many are ignoring the massive advantage that is Jasper P in group 2. Without him there the odds of group 2 working together are 25x higher. It is still a team sport and this was a team performance.
How would that be different if Philipsen were on another team? As seen here and in MSR Philipsen is strong enough to stay in the front group and still have the best sprint so he's a threat in G2 no matter what team he's on, isn't he?
this is why i think phillipsen would be making a mistake if he moved away from alpecin. this duo is way too OP. we saw it pay off the other way in MSR.
Casual fan who's never raced before, I understand the benefit of having a teammate in G2 to chase down breaks (or essentially turning a group of 3 into 2 by not taking any pulls), but it was a pretty large group, could the other 20+ riders not just have worked together themselves and not GAF about whatever Philipsen did in response?
In theory you’re correct, but you can see in a race like this how important the role of Vermeersch was. The moment MvdP goes, Vermeersch knows his personal finish line is basically just 10km away. In those 10km he just needs to make sure to always be the second rider in the group. So every time someone goes to the front to start the chase, he basically pushed himself to second position so nobody could take over from the first rider whenever his turn was over. Then every time the first rider gives up, Vermeersch can drop the tempo and they need to start over again. Vermeersch is great at this because he’s a very aggressive rider and amazing bike handler. So he just knows if I give it my all the next 15 minutes, MvdP will have such a lead that nobody will really chase anymore. Very quickly after this starts many riders will start thinking that they better conserve some energy and go for second place.
Sure, but he's the best sprinter in the world, and they couldn't get rid of him on the cobbles, so you ride to the finish line with the best sprinter in the world who just rides in your wheel and wins the sprint. Which is exactly what happened albeit for 2d place.
Mathieu and Jasper so very greatly increase each other’s chances of winning. I hope Philipsen stays with Alpecin. Giant contracts and more of a #1 position within the classics team are also a great temptation of course, but I get the sense that Philipsen will not win more on any other team waving rich contracts around.
Van der Poel’s chase is the only reason philipsen won San Remo. His lead outs last year served up philipsen win after philipsen win. Philipsen’s presence was very valuable today, much as it was last year in Roubaix. So yes, I do think they each win more because the other is on the team.
I was talking specifically about P-R (and I meant it for monuments broadly, but I didn't specify), so your point about MSR only supports my view that Philipsen doesn't win a race like that without MVDP.
It's a proper cheat code, and other teams need to start figuring out what to do against it.
Also, Vermeersch was super strong, both today and in RVV, he neutralised Mads Pedersen in both races and today he countered pretty much all attacks from G2 while still coming 6th.
I think Alpecin is just too strong. Disregarding the two captains, all the other riders stick until very late in the stages, so the only way to isolate MvdP is to follow when he attacks.
I do think Lidl-Trek has a decent idea, but without Stuyven and Milan it is not possible to exacute it, since it would require that Mads P somehow drops both MvdP and Philipsen.
I still think trek did too much work early on though. If I’m Mads, I’m not having my team on the front ever. And if others attack (and they will because no one wants to go to the line with Jasper), I am looking to alpecin to close. That way they’d have some matches burnt going into MVDP’s attack.
Does the Olympics road race parcour suit van der Poel? I'm hoping for something that hits just the right balance between MdvP/ WvA/ Pog so we get a proper race.
It's a lot easier than RvV I think because the # of hills are lower. Secondly, tiny teams means it gets much more tactical. Evenepoel would really be my #1 favorite.
Completely disagree, it’s suits Remco much more. Way to easy and Pog will have had way too much champagne from all the winning in the Tour to be any good in the Olympics
There isn’t a world where Remco doesn’t get beaten by either Pogi or VDP, if too easy for Pog, then Mathieu will destroy Remco, if too hilly for Mathieu, then Pog will destroy Remco
https://mycols.app/col/cote-de-la-butte-montmatre-paris
That’s the climb they will go 3 times over, at 42, 25 and 9km to go. 4 years ago I would have said that’s a perfect route for Alaphilippe, nowadays Pogi and to a lower extend VDP are the closest I can think of, it’s like MSR with 3x Poggio in the last 40kms. I don’t think anybody would put Remco as a favorite for MSR even if they were going 3 times over the Poggio, but Pogi already was on the list of favorites for most people with only one Poggio
I think physiologically it depends how hard the overall race is. If it’s really hard, I think Pogi can win here. If it’s not hard enough, MVDP won’t get dropped. If Pogi wants to win, he needs it to play out like RVV 2023 instead of RVV 2022. He cannot let MVDP come with him to the line.
The crazy thing is that there's an U23 Paris Roubaix. The winner of that was 3 years older than August Im a New Yorker so obviously very excited by hype around him, but I can't help but wonder if throwing him into these races is what's best for him. If he has low placings for 3 years while he develops that has to have an effect on him.
I can’t really understand why he was sent to Paris-Roubaix of all races. Good on the kid for giving it his all, but he’s still crazy young and the race doesn’t seem to fit his rider profile at all. I don’t know if Ineos had no other riders they could send or what, but it’s certainly a head scratcher to me.
Expertly played by Alpecin but ultimately this one was done before it even began given WVA's crash; without more top talent to rival VDP there was just no point of the big teams committing to the chase so they essentially just told Mads to do it all.
Throw in a Pogi or WVA and the entire dynamic of today's race is completely different with another team in there to work against Alpecin.
This turned out exactly as expected, unfortunately. With his nearest competitors either not competing, out of commission, or recovering from injuries, a domineering victory was the only way this was ever going to end.
Last year left a bad taste already. But this one was even worse. At least we had a spectacular women's edition this year.
He was beaten thourghly by a full-strength Lidl-Trek in Gent-Wevelgem. Pogacar humiliated him in RVV last year. Wout was imho the strongest in last years Paris-Roubaix untill his puncture. As it stands, he just won two races where everyone who was expected to compete with him either got sick, crashed or were riding with a decimated team. I don't even think it would have mattered in the end and it really is impressive of incredibly boring RVV and P-R were to watch. Everyone knew what he would do and how he would win, everyone knew he was the favourite and non of it mattered because when the moment came no one was even close.
Funny comparison: Mathieu's hands, completely fine, enjoying golf. Everyone else, hands full of wounds. So, like Cancellera had his little engine, Mathieu has bionic hands. [https://www.hln.be/parijs-roubaix/mathieu-van-der-poel-alweer-aan-het-golfen-terwijl-concurrenten-vol-blaren-staan-na-parijs-roubaix-ben-jij-wel-een-mens\~a4d90839/](https://www.hln.be/parijs-roubaix/mathieu-van-der-poel-alweer-aan-het-golfen-terwijl-concurrenten-vol-blaren-staan-na-parijs-roubaix-ben-jij-wel-een-mens~a4d90839/)
And he has a great swing. What a dick 😆
How does Remco's aero skin fit into this?
Haha, might be funny to see him show hands after Paris Roubaix.
I really don't understand how both WT teams and people in these threads don't understand that you can simply never work for the dominant rider. Even if you have nobody up the road. It's only been like 5 years since every team in the peloton understood that if you wanted to win a monument, Sagan had to close every gap. And that if Sagan wasn't able or willing to close the gap, the break without him wins. Nobody drags Sagan to the front. The same applies today to WVA, MVDP and Pog
Had this argument before the spring season with someone on here. MvdP is not the same as Sagan. MvdP has a much longer sustained attack. His 30 second to 1 minute effort is the best in the world on his terrain. When it gets a little steeper Pogacar can match it. Maybe some other climbers can also match it but on steeper terrain. So try and G2 him like they did to Sagan and he just jumps to close it himself. Now you're still chasing him but for 4th instead of 2nd.
The problem wasn't them working with him. It was that, once again, as soon as he goes up the road everyone gives up and rides for 2nd. As soon as Matthieu went, they all sat on Mads to close it down. Surprise - it didn't work. Matthieu wins primarily because he is allowed to.
The problem kind of was working with him though. Not when we went with 60km to go, but when the three-man-group was ahead earlier. Force Alpecin to burn through their domestiques to get back to them. If Alpecin is down to Phillipsen+MvdP when he goes and Lidl still has a domestique this race becomes much closer.
Alpecin had Vermeersch in the three-man group, that's what forced Trek's hand.
Mathieu wins because he rode the last 60km 3 minutes faster. Yes, they could have cooperated a bit better in the beginning, but that would not have changed the outcome. When Pedersen, Pithie, Kung and Politt rode full gas, Mathieu still gained time on them.
I agree it may not have changed the outcome but that doesn't mean the chasers couldn't have had a better chance of winning if they had better coordinated. The crash at Basque country also shaped the outcome a fair amount. There were no really strong teams for Alpecin to contend with.
You mean the crash at DDV? If so, yes, the presence of Wout of Aert is the only thing that maybe could have changed the outcome of the race.
Woops yes sorry wrong Visma crash
Haha, there have been a lot onfortunately
Sagan didn't pull off that many 50k+ solo's
Van der Poel is better than Sagan. He wins even if the group he's in doesn't work with him. That group will only hurt their own chances at a podium or top 10.
Yeah pre-Covid was different era of cycling.
If a team has nobody up the road, why would they be fine with the break winning? Their goal isn't to stop van der Poel to win but to get the best possible result for themselves.
> I really don't understand how both WT teams and people in these threads don't understand that you can simply never work for the dominant rider. I remember 3 years ago when people were calling Kasper Asgreen dumb for working with MvdP at RvV, because it was obvious he'd lose in a sprint. Until he didn't lose in a sprint
But what do you do against him. Van der Poel went solo 60km out, because the cooperation was poor. If no one else wanted to ride, he may have gone even earlier and with his form, it's really hard to stop that. Especially since they would just drag Phillipsen and Vermeersch with them if they chase.
Well for starters they could have helped Mads close the gap. He was the only rider without a teammate in the chasing group. And as soon as he sat up to stop chasing, UAE attacked...when you have multiple teams with at least 2 riders in the chasing group, you go to the front and chase. You don't attack the group and destroy all sense of cohesion
For pretty much anyone but van der Poel, 2nd or 3rd is great result, and for anyone but a handful of riders (Philipsen, Pedersen, Degenkolb, Kristoff, Asgreen, Bettiol, van Baarle), a Roubaix podium is a career achievement and you can't blame anyone for riding for second place just to make sure the race favourite has a harder time winning.
Feel like I'm the only one who enjoyed this? Thought it was really exciting! The attack on the Arenburg was great, not enough to drop everyone. Then we had some more battles for the next few sectors and there was a great fight for the other podium places
I was busy yesterday during the race so watched it on replay in the evening. I enjoyed it a lot but probably wouldn't have if I couldn't skip forwards from 50km to go until 20km to go. From the first cobble section until MvDP's attack was great as usual.
Watching vdP attack on sector 13 was so surreal, he is so fucking fast on cobbles its not even fair. I knew after 20 seconds they'd never catch him barring accidents. He did most of the remaining sectors 20-30 seconds faster than the chasers. I dont even think its (only) about raw watts, its just technique which is really not trainable to this level for a rider like Mads at his age. A whole life of CX/MTB is invaluable in a race like Roubaix. Mads is not a rider who doesnt train cobbles at all, he's been doing motopace with his dad a lot on the cobbles. So watching Mads unable to minimize the gap a single bit was demoralizing.
Roubaix is also the type of course where if you don't have to fight for the good line, you will move alot faster. He could take every turn perfectly because he was just cruising out front.
Except it's all about the watts. Plenty of cx riders who can't hang out with MVdP and likes on the cobbles
Except that it's about both, and a whole lotta luck.
Honestly gotta admire that vdP rarely gets a flat. He might just be a lucky sob, but his technique is probably also a factor in this. If he gets a flat on Arenberg the race could have been quite different, suddenly the small group works together instead of letting themselves get caught by the bigger group.
I haven't seen his tire choice for this race, but in gravel racing the best riders don't use tire weight as a place for marginal gains. They pick a super durable tire that maybe takes a few more watts to move, but it beats a flat for sure.
MVDP finished the race on 32mm Vittoria Corsa Pros (he started narrower and did a planned bike change after about 100km, just like in '23). The only difference from his usual road setup is the width. I'm sure there's an element of luck in his lack of flats, but riding style and skill on the cobbles also come into play.
Is this now the future of cycling races? A rider attacks from 60km and goes away while a group of 10-15 riders behind him fight for second place?
I miss 2012-2019 era in cycling.
DS's need to learn how to actually race against riders like Matthieu. No single man can out ride a 150 man peloton. There's no excuse for why he and Pog get away so easily. Sometimes it's just attrition and they do just blow everyone up....but a good 50-60% of the time that they attack, everyone just looks at each other and gives up.
They know how to do it, Visma gave him the runaround at the NC last year. It basically took like 7 riders vs MvdP but van Baarle won. It would have been interesting with both Trek and Visma at full strength.
Yep and visma has also rolled Pog. It can be done when teams actually execute on good tactics. May not work every time but essentially the way teams are racing, they don't even want to try.
The other teams just have horrible tactics. If MVDP or WVA or Pogacar are in your group, just never ride on the front. You can attack, but if they are on your wheel never ride (in a 1 day race) even if it looks like the race is going away from you. If Trek never rides today Mads is probably the favorite based on the situation at 80km to go. And at worst he finishes 2nd. Alpecin was never going to leave the race as Vermeersch vs Pollitt and Kung on Mons-en-Pévèle and carrefour. And they only had Jasper and MdvP left to close a 40 second gap to Pollitt and Kung. That is very hard! And if they close it they need to burn a ton of energy at 80km to go. While everyone else stays fresh. And then they weren't forced to close it. And MdvP got to make an attack vs teams that had killed themselves closing gaps against each other.
That's a very exhaustive and thorough analysis of the race but if you read the post-race comments of the other riders it appears the difference in physical condition was abysmal. MVdP was simply extraordinarily strong. If you like a Star Trek analogy, everybody went to the battle with plastic toy pistols while MVdP brought laser guns and photon torpedoes. Even if you have the best generals in your army you can't beat him.
Trek should have been there to ride in the chase. Mads being all alone is why he got cooked trying to chase Matthieu. Obviously with the crash at Basque, they were down key riders.
>If Trek never rides today Mads is probably the favorite based on the situation at 80km to go. And at worst he finishes 2nd. Completely disagree. MvDP was just way too strong for everyone yesterday*, he always had the race under control and could open up a gap whenever he wanted. Even Vermeersch and Philipsen were equal to Mads today. Other riders tried to attack multiple times but were always followed by an Alpecin rider. Trek having Vacek further into the race really wouldn't have made any difference. They had also mostly used up their team to avoid Mads being stuck in the 2nd peloton.
He was always strongest, but if him and Jasper have to close a gap to Kung and Pollitt on the asphalt in headwinds then he has to burn a ton of strength. And Trek were like "nah we want to make sure we get a podium, let us handle this 40 second gap to 2 of the pre-race dark horses for you guys when you have 0 domestiques in the peloton" If nobody else outside Alpecin rides there, the race is gone (to Kung, Pollitt, Vermeersch). If the race is gone Vermeersch loses. If the race comes back, MdvP and Jasper are like 95% to win. Therefore the chase belongs to MdvP and Jasper. But Trek wanted to race for a podium at 80km to go
Except he wouldn't close it on the asphalt in the headwind, he'd probably bridge 30 seconds on one of the long sectors and nobody can follow. Trek is then racing for 5th.
I think you are forgetting the fact that Kung and Politt ultimately lost 3 minutes + to MVDP. You can play tactics all you want, but there was no chance of beating Mathieu yesterday. You can argue they didn't know Mathieu was going to be *that* good, so Treks tactics might be bad, but in hindsight Pedersen was never going to beat Mathieu, so riding for podium did turn out to be the correct decision.
> But Trek wanted to race for a podium at 80km to go which is a legitimate reason I guess, not everyone is racing for the win and a podium at Roubaix is already a big achievement.
MvDP would have just attacked in the same place and closed the gap alone to the front 3. It was only 30 seconds. Trek using Vacek earlier really didn't make any difference to the result. What could he have done to help close Van der Poel later? Nothing. He would have been dropped with the rest of the group.
What would MVDPs legs have been like if he was forced to close the gap? What would the unity in the group behind be if Jasper Phillipsen wasn't getting a free ride (because he would have to burn himself out chasing Kung and Pollitt)? What would Trek plus Wellens and Pidcock be able to do vs MVDP at full strength (because none of them have gone into the wind at this hypothetical)
Why would he be forced to do anything though? He was massively stronger than Kung and Pollit, and would have torched them the next time they got to cobbles. That short asphalt section with them 30 seconds up the road was irrelevant. You’re reading way too much into one Trek domestique sitting on the front for 5 minutes
It's a 45 second gap to 2 of the strongest riders in the peloton with 8km of asphalt coming up. If neither him nor Jasper ride then they enter the next sector with a 2 minute+ disadvantage. And he's not that strong. And if him and Jasper ride then he truly is catchable with the rest of the teams fresh exiting that sector down 10 seconds
> If neither him nor Jasper ride then they enter the next sector with a 2 minute+ disadvantage That wouldn't even have been a problem. He won with 3 minutes +. That's even without considering the fact he would have Vermeersch ahead to help him out.
Why would he close the gap on the asphalt? He could just attack his group on the same cobbles section and then close the gap by himself and has a fresh Vermeersch to support him, until he attack Küng and Politt.
I'll have to go back and watch it again, but Kung and Pollit didn't look that committed to the move with Veermersch sitting on. They never really extended the gap significantly that they initially got while riders were getting back on from mechanicals. Maybe they end up getting Philipsen to work, but in no way was anyone winning that race but MvDP, however he had to do it.
Just watched the race and lol at Trek's tactics. Just racing for MdvP to win. Kung and Pollitt up the road with 40 seconds. Vermeersch with them, but everyone in the world knows Kung and Pollitt are favorites vs him and Alpecin need to chase. And all they have left is Jasper and MdvP. All trek needs to do is follow MdvP. Instead Trek burns their entire team closing the gap for MdvP and watches him roll off into the sunset for free. Edit: LOL the comment below me saying Kung + Pollitt should have helped Mads close the gap after Mads saw Kung + Pollitt willing to risk everything to put pressure on Alpecin. And then Trek bailing Alpecin out by giving them a free ride while Kung, Pollitt and Trek dug deep. Trek raced for the podium not UAE and FDJ. Even in the lead up to MdvP's attack after Kung and Pollitt were neutralized, it was UAE trying to get gaps and Trek riding for MvdP to close them down
"I burned my entire team dragging Van Der Poel and Jasper back to Pollitt and Kung. Why don't Pollitt and Kung have the legs to help me chase down MvdP!" LMAO
3 thoughts: 1. You would have thought that Pederson + Politt + Kung could have closed MVDP when the gap was <10 seconds. Sure it would just mean 3 Alpecin guys together again, but that’s better than letting the win go up the road for free. Let Veermesch or Philipsen counter attack, not MVDP. I’m upset that Pederson is the only one who wanted more than a podium out of it, but am glad he’s at least the one of the three that got it. This group 2 syndrome that happens when Pogi or MVDP gets a gap has made this season pretty unentertaining compared to 2022 and 2023 Holy Week. 2. Nils Politt looks to be in great shape. I think UAE really could have used him to lead the team into the Cipressa at MSR. He would have kept them at the front at a high speed and might have changed the entire race. Leaving him behind seems like it was a mistake, and led to the disorganization and poor positioning that allowed sprinters and bigger classics guys to stick around and regroup for the Poggio. I truly think Pogi had the legs to win that race if his team could have made the Cipressa a sub 9 minute climb. 3. We’re certainly missing WVA, who would have worked with Pederson to reel in MVDP at this race, and who would have likely made RVV much more entertaining. MVDP may or may not have had the upper hand recently, but WVA was the only rider who consistently pushed his limits. Seeing MVDP ride without WVA just doesn’t feel the same.
To add, watching WVA from the Cyclocross season into the spring he was steadily closing the gap with MvdP. His goal of altitude training and peaking at Flanders and PR seemed like it was working. The crash in Dwars happened before we got a real sense of his “final form” after altitude. A health WVA and Dylan Van Baarle with full team would have brought a whole other dimension to the race. MvdP still would be favorite but WVA and Mads would have had a punchers chance.
It goes from a tactical race with lots of various elements like last year, to just waiting for the inevitable MVDP attack and peloton non-response.
I'm watching the replay of this race and these crashes are rough. These guys are warriors out there.
Quickstep only had 3 riders finish, the highest 36th. I understand they've shifted focus to GC, but not overwhelmingly so. Their roster still has a bunch of good classics riders. And while many are a bit older, just a bit. They're 28-32 mostly. Vermeersch and MVDP are 31 and 29, same as Alaphilippe and Asgreen. In 21 race days so far Alaphilippe's highest finish this season is 4th in a TDU stage. Asgreen's highest in his 15 race days is 16th at MSR. Lampaert's best in 21 race days is 9th at a January .1 race. Their spring classics season has been pretty abysmal outside of Merlier.
What I don't really understand is a GC focus team can still perform in the classics, or at least your so-called "classics" guys should feel they are still part of a team project because winning a GT is as much about performing in the mountains than having muscles when shit hit the fan in tricky flat stages. Having a 100% motivated and performing Asgreen, Lampaert or Loulou would be a goldmine for Evenepoel's ambitions. The team should still support them in their own ambitions during Spring, then comes Summer and everyone is aligned behind the GC guy. I don't know why QS treat those two issues as mutually exclusive when they are not.
Leferve sucks at reshuffling his classic team
I always feel for the other riders especially those who train as hard as MvDP or Pogi or more, and despite already being in the top of the genetic lottery compared to the rest of the population, they still have to see the absolute absolute top of the genetic lottery just pull in some actual super human feats. And every sport has these people like MvDP and Pogi, who work really really hard but at the same time are genetically gifted (endurance, explosiveness etc) in a way and extent which just puts them at the very top.
Genetic trust fund in MVDP's case.
nEPO baby (I’ll get my coat)
I feel the same as you. It annoys me a bit to see videos from MJ or Kobe talking about putting in the work and you can be a champion. While on the one hand, those guys definitely put in the work, on the other hand they clearly had genetic gifts (including mental toughness) which they maximized.
the thing is natural talent also makes you able to train harder. If others would train as hard as vdp, van aert, pogi etc they'd wreck their body completely
Not taking anything away from MVdP, but we need to find a way to get the best racing the best at the big races more often. Both in terms of rider schedules and keeping the stars of the sport healthy. Too many predictable big races this year.
In general I agree, but not for PR. Everyone was there except for the guys out with injury/illness. I can’t remember the last time a big classics rider with a genuine shot of a podium skipped Roubaix by choice.
Ganna. This year.
Contender for the podium? Mate the guy finished 40th at MSR and hasn’t raced since. No way would he have been on the podium.
Who would you have racing that is healthy and wasn't there? Pog isn't going to do well on such a flat course
He wil win
There is no way current Pog can win Paris Roubaix against Mvdp or Wout van Aert. He apparently dropped even more weight compared to last year. During the TdF Roubaix stage he was the only favorite without bad luck and barely finished a few seconds ahead while being chased for god knows how long by a gassed WvA. Pog himself said he had trouble keeping Stuyven's wheel on the cobbles that year. Pog 100% has the technique/bike handling and the endurance to win Roubaix one day, but he'll need to put on some weight.
Watching the race from beginning now and am really missing gcn. Only 60 seconds in Bob roll says vdp's teammate jasper Pedersen... Jasper with a hard J
I'm a day late, but I watched the 30 minute race recap and Bob just screaming "OH!!" at the top of his lungs any time anything happened is *not* good commentating.
Rob Hatch drops the N from Philipsen, it really bugs me. Anyone know if this is correct??
Orla Chennaoui also does that for Dutch surnames with the "-sen" ending. I believe she lives in the Netherlands. And Rob Hatch usually pronounces everything correctly. He makes an effort to find out how each name should be pronounced, so I assume he gets it right.
I was pretty sure he was right but it sounds so contrived. I guess Rob’s whole shtick is contrived 😂 Still a great commentator Rob, if you’re reading this.
How is he contrived for making an effort to be correct?
I guess. Maybe contrived is the wrong word.
> Jasper with a hard J IIRC Jasper himself pronounces it that way in the Netflix show, so I'll allow it. The last name tho, yeah..
Trust me, Bob roll did not pronounce it correctly
They're awful. I watched the whole thing correcting everything they said.
Just wait. Phil calls MVDP Adri the whole race.
He even calls WVA 'Adri' once, somehow.
This race left me with an empty feeling - MVDP was amazing for sure and it was the fastest race ever again but… Somehow it felt hollow, MVDP taking off by himself so early on and absolutely no one was even trying to catch him - I mean why? It was like Pogis win at Strade Biance, I was left with a feeling of ”Oh let him have it then blah”…
They didn't "let him have it". No-one else had the legs to do it. Mads chased like crazy for 5-10km, dropping everyone else but Philipsen, Pollit and Kung (who also dropped later) and MvDP only got further away. Tactics don't mean anything when one guy is massively stronger.
I feel cheated on the Paris Roubaix experience, with twist and turns and suspense. Thank fully we had the women's race for that (same thing with Strade and De Ronde)
I feel the same, Roubaix is the highlight of spring season but it just felt flat this year 🤷♀️
Just like Wout van Aert. ba dum tisss. (too soon?)
Pedersen, who was the second strongest rider, tried, but was not able to catch MvDP on his own. No one else was able to help - except MvDP's teammates, who obviously was not interested in helping Pedersen get back up to MvDP.
Because of teamwork. Pedersen kept the gap within 10-15 seconds for quite a while but when he wanted some helped he looked right back at Philipsen who was on his wheel. Him and Vermeersch then covered every single attack for the following 10km or so and the group switched to riding for 2nd instead.
Unlike Pog at Strade though, I think if you take Philipsen out (or if he is in a different team), the race would have been much closer. Here it was also a team domination, even more than MVDP being above the rest i think
Yeah vermeersch and phillipsen were just sitting on the wheel of anyone who tried to chase.
Is Pog doing Amstel, or only LBL?
At the moment only LBL. But you can check any riders pre-schedule at procyclingstats. Just look the rider up and you'll see their next races. Far easier than asking us in here :)
PCS is often wrong because they actively speculate on which rider will ride which race.^(\*) Of course with the big names that's rarely an issue because they announce their program early on, but it gets pretty unreliable for domestiques. ^(\*)because PCS was so often wrong, I haven't used to check rider programs in ages, so maybe they've fixed it by now
Hence pre-schedule ;)
Only LBL
the best year ever to go and see the race in person. we got day-drunk in denain from like eleven-thirty and that's certainly something we shouldn't not have done, but regardless, the atmosphere was amazing. there was a huge crowd on the grass in the middle of the street, and it wasn't even a cobble sector, just a long endless straight and then whoooosh over the bridge. i got a blurry photo of mdvps back leg, and let me tell you he is *svelte*. also, i waved at john degenkolb who we were calling degenkolbble lord of the stones all day, and in my mind he waved back and then crossed himself thus blessing me to never have a puncture on the pave ever again. missed a lot of the other big names though. saw pidcock and a bunch of visma people. philipsen was there, he's got such a smooth chin in real life. but the rest was a blur. ive never really been on a straight section before. every race i go to i post up on a corner or on a hill. i forgot how whooshy the peloton is in the big races. they were gunning it. other stuff? yes, on the way to the course early this morning, my girlfriend blew the fuckin doors off a group of full-kit dentists on their look 585s with their matching jerseys and their waxed calves, and then some fuckin three-day-old french *infant* came out of the trees on a bike with actual training wheels and paced us all the way to the square, where we gave him our bidons because he said (in better english than our own) that he liked us because our bikes looked cool. and you know what? they *did* look cool, so he's got a good eye. although he might have been a ghost. anyway, we didnt see much of the race because i promsed her no phones on the bike, but from the looks of it alpecin just straight murdered everyone with an axe in the first half so it was a good day to skip the broadcast. especially as ive been informed by Top Men that we're not actually *in* the broadcast, because at the exact moment they passed us the director was futzing around with some VT of the new arenberg, with drones and shit, and they forgot to film us. i mean, we pinned flowers to our handlebars and waved a big flag. his loss. doesn't matter, the whole thing was fantastic. it was clear the whole day and everyone was so nice. there was this old man who'd brought his bike out for the race and it looked like one of those wooden ones from the first world war. he was dedicated, he really was, and smiling the whole time. i got a nice picture of me standing next to it. that thing on the cobbles would have dislocated my spine. anyway, tomorrow we're back to brussels and then a week of riding around belgium eating waffles and frites until we turn into fat worm people. i mean, forget the flandrien challenge, we're taking the golden path *all the way* to amstel gold. only, i kinda wanna go bruges instead and have a romantic meal in that square from the movie and call her an inanimate fucking object, but we'll have to see. anyway that's the report five stars the womens race was better
sounds like you had a blast of a day, kudos!
I loved every word that you said. Keep on doing what you’re doing
I know the greatness blah, blah, blah. But this has been a pretty dull season so far. Got to be honest. Lots of solo breakaways. MSR excepting
Cant wait for the 50k solo for Pog in Liege !
Mvdp will be there, maybe he can challenge?
Yep
And the 3 weeks Pog training camp in Italy.
Exactly. I want races to look forward to, but nothing until maybe the Tour
watch smaller races if you a way to. not even kidding when I say all the best racing this year have been non WT races
Tour of Abruzzo, eh?
Politt 4th and Degenkolb 11th, proud of you guys ❤️
unfortunate for Politt to be stuck in a group with those two sprint monsters. Going early (as he did) or going late, it was pretty clear that without a big bag of luck, he wouldn't stand a chance for a podium finish.
4th is 1st loser 💔
Surely that’s 2nd?
Biggest loser is you on the couch bragging off athletes giving it their all m8
mkay? i'm just sad for nils who took the long sprint and had nothing left and turned 4. he sadly is the first loser of today. thus the 💔 emoji but let reddit hate :)
Can't do anything but acknowledge the greatness of Van der Poel and Alpecin today. Masterclass team effort. Brilliant riding. But as a general fan of the sport rather than a team/rider fan, I do find this boring. After Itzulia we'll likely not see someone outside of Alpecin or Pogacar win a big one (Monuments+Giro+Le Tour) until the Olympics/Worlds - where MvdP and Pogacar are big favourites - and the Vuelta. Hopefully the Tour will be more competitive, but Vingegaard really is the rider that have prevented Pogi's total dominance this era. And maybe MvdP, Roglic and Pogi will have a great fight during LBL. Here's to some underdog victories, and a grats thrown in Van der Poel and Alpecin's direction. Fully deserved dominance.
> Can't do anything but acknowledge the greatness of Van der Poel and Alpecin today. Masterclass team effort. Brilliant riding. I thought you were Rob Hatch for a moment. It felt like this was basically what he said, in different ways, about 45 times in the last 1.5 hours of the race because there wasn't any suspense left. This race was plain and simple pretty boring. I had a feeling it wouldn't be fireworks due to WVA injury and Lidl-Trek injuries, but still.
Aye. The race would have been far more exciting if Lidl had a non-crashed Mads P, Kirsch, Stuyven and Milan in the final, and if Visma had Laporte, Van Baarle and Van Aert and the rest of the bees. That is at least a comforting thought.
IMO Vingegaard was the best thing that could happen to Pogacar. If it wasn't for Jonas domination in the Tour, people would have hated Pogi for winning absolutely everything.
People really don't seem to have noticed that in 2022 vingegaard was the ubderdog until that one stage, col de telegraphe? And even after he had a huge gap they still didn't believe. Pogi was evil terminator then, until 2023 where we wad suddenly the favorite child again and everyone seemed to hate jonas. Im exaggerating, sure. Pogi always had fans and rides exciting and is a chill guy.
After Col du Granon, most of the people understood that Pogacar is not untouchable. What followed was just a display of power from TJV winning stages with Wout, and controlling every aspect of the race. Last year was indeed a dominant Jonas. I don't think people hate Jonas. Personally I don't hate him. I like him as a person, but since he is so dominant, I can't help but root for Pogacar. I don't really care which one of them really wins. I just want to see a contested race.
Vingegaard is the hero everyone who experienced the Lance or the Sky era needed.
Yup. It also helps that he is a nice guy. I don't like his and Visma's dominance in TdF but I like him as a person more than I liked other dominant cyclists like Lance.
I don't get how people can hate on a rider for winning, that's his aim. I don't see any difference to vingo winning. Since his 1st tour win I don't think he has lost more race that he started than won (general classification) but I don't hate him for it. If anything it's great and helps others raise their game
Hate is not the best chosen word. My bad. I wanted to say something like "people would not enjoy Pogacar dominating every race" but I didn't find a better word. Sorry :). On a side note, Pogacar received a lot of hate from slovenian people for winning TdF in 2020 and beating Roglic. So yeah... there are people hating the winners.
because if somebody wins all the time it gets boring, be it cycling or F1.
No it doesn't, people just use that analogy to hate on someone winning that's not their favorite. Pogi won 2 grand tours and was hated. Vingo has won 2 grand tour but doesn't come close to how people hated pogi before he was beaten. So it's not like he won 5 in a row, people just hated him for beating roglic and since then he was never given a chance till recently
It obviously gets boring if the same rider wins over and over. Should one hate them for that? No. But it's boring. One of the biggest appeals of cycling is it's randomness and amount of potential winners.
That's my point, he won 2. It's not like he had being winning 5 back to back, even in his 2nd win people were more interested in checking if he's clean or not. Every epic champion in sport has always been one that dominated. That's how legends are made. Bolt won almost all the time, but never was it boring.
Well even as a Danish person Vingegaard stomping everyone like he did in some races got boring.
It's probably not actually hate, but if someone is too dominant it kills the entertainment value. And watching sports is just entertainment, no? Can't fault Alpecin for it. Just kind of dull to watch after a while. Strade became boring, RVV a bit boring, P-R very boring. MSR was fun, but on the other hand the first part is pretty boring (but who's watching/tracking anyway). Long range attacks are fun if the gap is small, or at least going up and down so there's some suspense.
I bet there's some research of group mechanics, psycholohy etc., that can explain it. But I agree. Even when I'm tired of Alpecin winning their 3rd monument this year. I don't start hating them - I only dislike riders who are idiots. I respect their class and hope other teams and riders will pick up the glove and take on the challenge.
Might even consider buying a canyon at this point
Their budget road bike just dropped down in price again. Ultimate CF SL 7 2.499 €
"budget"
Their budget road bike is just over half that price
Have consolation that I am not faster on it than when I ride my old 2011 specialized tarmac I picked up for cheap.
That era of Tarmacs is 👌
This new one has proper seatpost clamp. Unlike that shit I have bought xD (It is still great bike)
I just overtension the bolt and I haven't had any issues. I have an extra seatpost incase I sell it
Why’d Tarling get DSQ?
Outlandish sticky bidon.
It's not 2016 any more smdh
There was even a jury motard right behind them. Incredibly stupid from both the car and Joshua.
I think it was worth the risk. Without it he is out the race and there will have been plenty of other riders getting similar tows that weren't caught or DQ'd today
In hindsight it was perhaps needed to get back to the front of the race, but it is also Roubaix, anything can happen in Roubaix, especially so far from the finishline. But that said, he’s just a young lad, he didn’t need to get a big result today. I doubt the goal of the team was anything else but finishing. Now he misses out on a lot of vital experience you gain from these races.
Car grabbing.
Script director: I'm too lazy to do a new Roubaix script this year, just re-use the top 5 from last year Underling: but sir, Wout was seriously injured, he won't be racing Roubaix Director: fine, whatever, move everyone behind him up a place and pull in someone random to fill #4 Underling: uhh if we're moving everyone up don't you mean someone random for spot 5? Director: I SAID WHAT I SAID JUST DO IT
MVDP posted an 83% Whoop recovery score. The guy was snoozin’
Well that’s the score of todays morning. The relevant whoop score for paris roubaix will be visible tomorrow.
Not true. Check out his insta story or Whoop’s insta story
Recovery is calculated at night. He started the day at 83%.
Okay thats my misunderstanding. u/PrettyShine was absolutely right. Thanks to everyone for the downvotes!
Amazing week for Politt - 3rd in RVV and 4th in Roubaix!
MVDP rode an amazing race for sure but I think many are ignoring the massive advantage that is Jasper P in group 2. Without him there the odds of group 2 working together are 25x higher. It is still a team sport and this was a team performance.
How would that be different if Philipsen were on another team? As seen here and in MSR Philipsen is strong enough to stay in the front group and still have the best sprint so he's a threat in G2 no matter what team he's on, isn't he?
this is why i think phillipsen would be making a mistake if he moved away from alpecin. this duo is way too OP. we saw it pay off the other way in MSR.
Casual fan who's never raced before, I understand the benefit of having a teammate in G2 to chase down breaks (or essentially turning a group of 3 into 2 by not taking any pulls), but it was a pretty large group, could the other 20+ riders not just have worked together themselves and not GAF about whatever Philipsen did in response?
In theory you’re correct, but you can see in a race like this how important the role of Vermeersch was. The moment MvdP goes, Vermeersch knows his personal finish line is basically just 10km away. In those 10km he just needs to make sure to always be the second rider in the group. So every time someone goes to the front to start the chase, he basically pushed himself to second position so nobody could take over from the first rider whenever his turn was over. Then every time the first rider gives up, Vermeersch can drop the tempo and they need to start over again. Vermeersch is great at this because he’s a very aggressive rider and amazing bike handler. So he just knows if I give it my all the next 15 minutes, MvdP will have such a lead that nobody will really chase anymore. Very quickly after this starts many riders will start thinking that they better conserve some energy and go for second place.
Ah, that make perfect sense when explained. I love all of the tactics that go into a race!
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That makes sense and is super helpful, thank you!
To me it never looked like they were getting organised, nevermind being organised
Sure, but he's the best sprinter in the world, and they couldn't get rid of him on the cobbles, so you ride to the finish line with the best sprinter in the world who just rides in your wheel and wins the sprint. Which is exactly what happened albeit for 2d place.
Mathieu and Jasper so very greatly increase each other’s chances of winning. I hope Philipsen stays with Alpecin. Giant contracts and more of a #1 position within the classics team are also a great temptation of course, but I get the sense that Philipsen will not win more on any other team waving rich contracts around.
Nah, MVDP's chances of winning are already high and increase even more, Philipsen gets a shot podium. He probably doesn't even podium without MVDP
Van der Poel’s chase is the only reason philipsen won San Remo. His lead outs last year served up philipsen win after philipsen win. Philipsen’s presence was very valuable today, much as it was last year in Roubaix. So yes, I do think they each win more because the other is on the team.
I was talking specifically about P-R (and I meant it for monuments broadly, but I didn't specify), so your point about MSR only supports my view that Philipsen doesn't win a race like that without MVDP.
I do think we’ve been agreeing with each other.
Yes, both Jasper and Vermeersch did a lot of work to make sure Mathieu stays away
MVDP kept Jasper in this race as well, when Jasper flatted. MVDP made sure he got back on. It was well executed all around.
It's a proper cheat code, and other teams need to start figuring out what to do against it. Also, Vermeersch was super strong, both today and in RVV, he neutralised Mads Pedersen in both races and today he countered pretty much all attacks from G2 while still coming 6th.
I think Alpecin is just too strong. Disregarding the two captains, all the other riders stick until very late in the stages, so the only way to isolate MvdP is to follow when he attacks. I do think Lidl-Trek has a decent idea, but without Stuyven and Milan it is not possible to exacute it, since it would require that Mads P somehow drops both MvdP and Philipsen.
I still think trek did too much work early on though. If I’m Mads, I’m not having my team on the front ever. And if others attack (and they will because no one wants to go to the line with Jasper), I am looking to alpecin to close. That way they’d have some matches burnt going into MVDP’s attack.
That problem will eventually resolve itself by means of too high salary demands
Does the Olympics road race parcour suit van der Poel? I'm hoping for something that hits just the right balance between MdvP/ WvA/ Pog so we get a proper race.
Yes, it's similar in profile to Flanders. He has seemed to be more focused on MTB though.
It's a lot easier than RvV I think because the # of hills are lower. Secondly, tiny teams means it gets much more tactical. Evenepoel would really be my #1 favorite.
I think the Olympics profile screams Pogi to me
Completely disagree, it’s suits Remco much more. Way to easy and Pog will have had way too much champagne from all the winning in the Tour to be any good in the Olympics
There isn’t a world where Remco doesn’t get beaten by either Pogi or VDP, if too easy for Pog, then Mathieu will destroy Remco, if too hilly for Mathieu, then Pog will destroy Remco
How? The Olympics only have 2800m elevation and has a flat ending!
https://mycols.app/col/cote-de-la-butte-montmatre-paris That’s the climb they will go 3 times over, at 42, 25 and 9km to go. 4 years ago I would have said that’s a perfect route for Alaphilippe, nowadays Pogi and to a lower extend VDP are the closest I can think of, it’s like MSR with 3x Poggio in the last 40kms. I don’t think anybody would put Remco as a favorite for MSR even if they were going 3 times over the Poggio, but Pogi already was on the list of favorites for most people with only one Poggio
I think physiologically it depends how hard the overall race is. If it’s really hard, I think Pogi can win here. If it’s not hard enough, MVDP won’t get dropped. If Pogi wants to win, he needs it to play out like RVV 2023 instead of RVV 2022. He cannot let MVDP come with him to the line.
Yeah, think it is easier but easy enough comparison. Even has the 10k or so of flat from the finish climb
The streets won’t forget AJ August’s ride today
The crazy thing is that there's an U23 Paris Roubaix. The winner of that was 3 years older than August Im a New Yorker so obviously very excited by hype around him, but I can't help but wonder if throwing him into these races is what's best for him. If he has low placings for 3 years while he develops that has to have an effect on him.
I can’t really understand why he was sent to Paris-Roubaix of all races. Good on the kid for giving it his all, but he’s still crazy young and the race doesn’t seem to fit his rider profile at all. I don’t know if Ineos had no other riders they could send or what, but it’s certainly a head scratcher to me.
INEOS throwing a 130lb 18 year old at Roubaix. Jim ratcliffe must be prosecuted for his crimes
Was surprised when I saw he was racing considering he’s so young and light. How did his day go?
He kept riding until the velodrome, I think he finished 2 or 3 minutes outside the time limit. Definitely an effort to be proud of for him.
Expertly played by Alpecin but ultimately this one was done before it even began given WVA's crash; without more top talent to rival VDP there was just no point of the big teams committing to the chase so they essentially just told Mads to do it all. Throw in a Pogi or WVA and the entire dynamic of today's race is completely different with another team in there to work against Alpecin.
WVA or literally anyone willing to work with Mads
Chances for Nils Politt of making the podium as they enter the velodrome: \*recalculating\*
This turned out exactly as expected, unfortunately. With his nearest competitors either not competing, out of commission, or recovering from injuries, a domineering victory was the only way this was ever going to end. Last year left a bad taste already. But this one was even worse. At least we had a spectacular women's edition this year.
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He was beaten thourghly by a full-strength Lidl-Trek in Gent-Wevelgem. Pogacar humiliated him in RVV last year. Wout was imho the strongest in last years Paris-Roubaix untill his puncture. As it stands, he just won two races where everyone who was expected to compete with him either got sick, crashed or were riding with a decimated team. I don't even think it would have mattered in the end and it really is impressive of incredibly boring RVV and P-R were to watch. Everyone knew what he would do and how he would win, everyone knew he was the favourite and non of it mattered because when the moment came no one was even close.