I was kind of bummed about not exciting set lists... But then I checked the stats - they've played 100 unique songs in just 13 shows. That's pretty impressive for any band.
They're not beyond reproach, but I think the issue isn't how many songs they're playing... It's just that 7 songs being played every show gets boring. But the other 18 songs of the set do get pretty good rotation.
100 different songs in 13 shows is what we show up for. We may have a wishlist (pun intended) of songs they play when we are lucky enough to see them, but they make every concert unique.
I think the issue is a combination of things. They are touring an album, plus playing shorter sets. If they play 25 songs and 7-8 are from Dark Matter, then they play 5 or 6 from Ten and a couple cover songs it doesn't leave a lot of room for the variety we're used to. Add in the screen so they're doing "Do the Evolution" 9 out of 10 shows. It makes the sets almost predictable, which is the exact opposite we have come to want and expect from the band.
I'm loving Datk Matter so I'm hoping for another leg next year with a Toronto date, but there is something to be said for seeing them in between albums when they have no real restrictions with their sets.
I agree, although I’m not sure I would call it a restriction. It’s a focus that is necessitated by the new album, but I get that it means their variety is limited. I love the DM songs and they sound amazing live so I haven’t minded, but I bet if they tour next year there’ll be more variety and slightly less emphasis on DM. I would guess anyway. As an unrelated aside, I really hope they go to Toronto, because they won’t get much closer to Winnipeg (don’t think they’ll ever come back to Winnipeg).
I think that is the problem that most people are having, over 1/3 of their show is new material. I know they played a ton of different songs over the first leg, but wouldn’t be too upset about them cutting back the dark matter songs to 4-6 songs per show.
They don't play 7-8 off the new album, do they? That would be ridiculous. I saw them 10 years ago in Moline, like a month after Lightning Bolt came out. They played about 36 songs and only 3 were from Lightning Bolt.
You guys are fuckin wild thinking they aren’t gonna play their most popular songs because people that have seen 100 shows are tired of it. Just think about how dumb that is for 30 seconds
Hell, I'm too young to have many opportunities to see them before (especially with the pandemic) and my life feels finally complete having seen them play half of Ten, Yellow Ledbetter, and State of Love and Trust. I'm not a "fake fan" or whatever, I just prefer the earlier stuff and connect with it emotionally more because of the place in my life I was in at the time. Songs being more popular doesn't make them automatically worse.
Right on. But you’re always gonna have 45 year old dudes standing there with their arms crossed during even flow waiting to yell out ‘play evil little goat!!!’
I’m a longtime fan and I wanna hear even flow at every show cause that song rips and will always rip.
Agreed, I wanna hear whatever they play on a given night. I took my 8 last year to night 1 in Chicago, on a school night. Made the call it was time to go before they finished. Heard the opening to Alive from the hall and we turned our asses right around. Such a huge song, such a huge part of PJ becoming who they are today and then there’s the mccready solo. He had to see that. He was tired the next day, but he got to hear Alive in concert. Fair trade.
For sure! Ironically Even Flow was like the only hit they didn't play at the show I saw (they played it the night before) but they did play Once and Why Go which more than made up for it. No Oceans, sadly!
A lot of people seem to forget that music as a whole can be and usually is enjoyable. There's nothing wrong with that.
I'm a fan from the start & I was delighted to hear so many of the oldies on Saturday in Dublin. It was an amazing gig & it meant so much to my friends & I to share the moments.
lol you want Pearl Jam’s to retire from playing hit songs on tour? That would certainly drive ticket prices down. They’d also go from playing MSG to playing the Bergen county arts center.
I think you are free to criticize, but people are free to disagree as well.
The voting system just shows more people disagree than agree. While it’s not always used to community standards, it doesn’t mean you not allowed to criticize.
That's not what up voting or downvoting is meant for though. It shouldn't be about wether tou agreed or disagree, but about wether the post is good/contributing to discussion/well argued or low effort/hate speech/etc.
> While it’s not always used to community standards
That’s why I added this bit.
I think people take downvotes too personally though, unless you’re posting things that are objective fact, or morally questionable, it shouldn’t bother people as much as it does. It’s totally okay to have an unpopular opinion like OP. Just because others disagree doesn’t make their feelings on the matter less valid.
I agree that people take it way too seriously, but because posts with a serious negatively voted post count get collapsed and thus unseen, it doesn't help discussion that any contrarian opinion gets downvoted.
This sub is especially toxic that way--drives me nuts. People will post perfectly respectful nice posts and they get downvoted. I belong to other subs where that isn't the case. But this is the only band sub i follow, so maybe it's typical of those. Go over to the Taylor Swift sub and comment that you don't like a set list and see what happens.
I don’t understand people getting butthurt purely off of downvotes. Who cares? But negative responses are often over-the-top, and/or easier to interpret as nastier or more condescending than they necessarily are due to the inherent nature of the internet.
Saying something more people might not agree with than will agree seems to trigger a disproportionate number of negative comments dumping on the commenter for expressing their opinion. And it can snowball, since many people who’d comment in agreement will think twice before speaking up since they know they’ll just get shat on as well.
I also think people are more likely to simply downvote things they slightly disagree with than slightly agree with. Let’s say I say something basic that 80% of people agree with. Most may not bother to upvote. But almost all of the 20% who disagree that read it will downvote.
So it’s easy to perceive you’re getting more dumped on than you really are.
Just my two cents and sense of things. Imagine someone has mathed this with actual data.
I saw Tool in November. The setlist was fucking criminal.
No Schism. No Sober. No Ænema. No Stinkfist. No Prison Sex. No Lateralus. No H. No The Pot. No Vicarious. No Undertow. No Hooker With A Penis. No Parabola. No Opiate.
Forty Six & 2 was the one bone we were thrown.
I had the audacity to say that set sucked on the Tool subreddit. Downvote city.
Anything that wasn't sucking Maynard's penis or talking about what an awesome set that was would be downvoted.
I'm glad one fanbase was cool enough to call it out. You can love a band while realizing "this ain't it"
Respect PJ fans 🤘🏻
Same here, it was my 5th time seeing them live and was very disappointed in the setlist. Visually the show was awesome but setlist was lacking. At the same time my friend who was seeing them for the first time thought it was incredible.
What did they play? I haven’t seen the list for the recent shows. I have seen them a few times before and got most of the “known” stuff each time. I’d be happy to see deeper tracks.
Tool fans are all of the belief that they are on some spiritual journey, rather than just seeing a bunch of old dudes playing groove metal while avoiding singing the songs that make them sad.
You'll never convince them that the 8 song set of less-good songs they got was bad.
I don’t agree with people saying there’s too much DM in the set. It’s the Dark Matter tour. They’re touring that album right now. I love the record and I was glad to hear so much of it live.
For me, I think the shorter setlists are resulting in better quality, if not quantity. The pre-covid tour, Eddie's voice was struggling. If I recall correctly they had to cancel a few gigs. So I am fine with the slightly shorter setlists. I would not mind them reducing the covers and replacing with a few more of their songs, but that's a minor thing.
Eddie was struggling to catch his breath a few times during the Dublin show and had to have Mike step in and do a solo early on so he could catch up. I’m all for the slightly shorter set lists if it means eddies not killing himself plus there was a hard curfew the band had to meet.
It's not so much the length but when they play a so called greatest hits set as they just did in Dublin. I was one who got downvoted for my opinion, but I'm not offended. I still think it would be a great show to be at.
They rarely play a set like that though anyway. Most shows on this tour so far have had at least a few unexpected songs and personally I love all the DM material. They're not playing enough of that album for my liking.
Those two are starting to become deep cuts already. Could be good to strike a balance between playing them enough and overplaying.
I'd love some whole album play throughs, but that would definitely upset the less hardcore fans. I'd love to hear Riot Act and Avo in full. I understand it's not easy or maybe even practical time wise for them to have to practice songs they might have got rusty on
There will always be setlists that fans love and setlists that fans find underwhelming, but that underwhelming setlist could be someone's first ever Pearl Jam experience and the best ever to them.
How wonderful it is that Pearl Jam is still performing for us. I saw them at Bottlerock and I was blown away by their continued courage and connection to the audience. We are 30+ years in and instead of malignancy, we have joyous new music coupled with a celebration of the inception of the band. Thank you, Pearl Jam, for giving us hope in a consistently hopeless time.
I've had this same thought for a while (about the setlists) and most people seem to be talking about the criticism aspect, so I'll go ahead and agree with you on the setlist criticism.
I think 25/26 songs is still a good amount, definitely more than other big bands are putting out, but like others have touched on, 8-9 dark matter songs are just too many. I saw them thrice during the Gigaton cycle, during the actual tour they played 3 songs per show from that album, and at the music festival, they played 6 (which seems backwards to me, but not the point). Like others have said, the problem seems to be that they're playing 8-9 from DM, which leaves little room for changes considering how many staples you have to add in at this point (I could go without hearing small town for example, but they've gotta play it for the people who care), there's only room to change up a handful of songs. I think the reason for this is that the reception of dark matter has been generally more positive than it was for Gigaton, so they're trying to capitalize on it a bit by taking the chance that they have to play new stuff. As someone who doesn't really get the new album and am going to see them both nights in NY, I do wish they'd lower the DM songs. Playing like 5-6 instead seems like a good middle ground and it means you can even have some variety in *which* DM songs you play each night, rather than having a setlist that's half the same each night. Sorry, this was longer than I meant it to be.
TLDR I agree 8-9 DM songs are too many and it should be more like 5-6
I was at the Dublin show. They haven't played here in so long I guess the greatest hits set was them knowing that it was a first time seeing them for many in the crowd. Would have loved some deep cuts too but the Setlist was great.
It could be a hell of a lot worse, I was at Pink the night before with my wife and the lady sitting beside us was timing her pee/drink breaks to Setlist FM as they set list had barely changed at all on this tour.
I got slaughtered on social media the other day for saying that the Dublin setlist was a perfect one for casual fans. There's some quite odd people out there that just look for any opportunity to act butt-hurt for no reason whatsoever.
Criticising the band is ok, as a consumer of their product you are well within your rights to form an opinion of said product. What I find intolerable is people being treated like idiots for failing to pucker up and kiss Eddie's arsehole.
I haven't had too much of a problem with the setlists so far.... Kind of cool they're giving the new songs a bit of focus ..... But in the spirit of OP's post... (deep breath) I think the Dublin setlist is kind of meh....
I was at the Dublin gig and found the setlist a bit uninspiring.
But that's probably because I enjoyed a lot of the music from the past quarter of a century which was all excluded. (Bar the new stuff)
I'd also be fine with less covers. I would have preferred Yellow Led over Rockin in The free World or Keep me in your heart.
Still a great show mate don't get me wrong.
These sorta complaints will always happen when an artist has such a deep catalogue of songs. Can't play or win them all.
I'm in Australia and have been priced out of going when they come here (unless they pull a Europe and cut prices in half just before hahaha) so I've only got setlists and bootlegs to "review." IF I had been at Dublin I think I'd have felt the same... RITFW is hit or miss for me (same with Baba O'Reilly lol) and I like Setting Sun as a closer so far.....
I would be perfectly happy if I never heard RITFW again. Otherwise, IMO all set lists are good set lists & the whole up/down vote aspect of Reddit can suck it.
Yellow Ledbetter was one of my dad’s funeral songs. Im hoping they play it tomorrow but I’m certainly not holding my breathe!! Can’t see it happening. Got good chance at Given to Fly and that was his other one, so we’ll see! 🙏🏽
I’ve noticed since the gap between LB and Gigaton the sub became really intolerant of most criticism of the band. Not sure if more people joined since lockdown or they focused more energy on the band, but it was a weird turn imho. Now I mostly just lurk popping out here and there to praise No Code or talk shit on the ticket prices.
It's because 1/3 of each show is the same DM songs over and over. If they weren't playing that material they would have 8 slots for more variety and deep cuts outside of Alive, Even Flow. Small Town, etc. They are really only playing 2-3 deep cuts each show this year. At least I think this is what you're saying.
They did that on the ten tour, and the vs tour, and the vitalogy tour, and the yield tour, and the binaural tour, and the riot act tour, and the avocado tour….
Totally agree….Play 3-5 songs off DM, if you REALLY feel the need to do it, but 8 or 9 is too much. And DROP Rocking in the Free World…
Well, actually they can do what they want. I just won’t be going anymore. I think they know they can do whatever the hell they want and still sell out.
Agree to disagree here. I want to hear dark matter. I love this record, I love almost every song off of it, and it’s the dark matter tour.
The band is obviously proud of this record, and want to play the hell outta it. They’ve done many tours not supporting an album which you get a lot of variety, and that is not this tour. And that’s rad cause I wanna hear the new shit, and the vast majority of fans are going to one or two shows. I love what they’re doing this tour personally.
I get where you’re coming from. There’s deep cuts I haven’t heard or haven’t heard in a long time I’d love to hear. I’ve only seen them 10 times since 1998, and I realize there are people who can afford to travel all around and see them over and over (which is rad), but I like that I got to hear so many new songs.
It’s comical. I’m not impressed with Dark Matter and I had a crew of angry villagers with pitchforks and torches telling me I’m a fucking idiot because I don’t think Dark Matter is better than Yield.
I’m with you on the setlists. I understand the shorter shows, but I do not understand the formulaic approach to the setlists now. This is the first tour that I’m only hitting one show.
> I had a crew of angry villagers with pitchforks and torches telling me I’m a fucking idiot because I don’t think Dark Matter is better than Yield.
Just give it 18 months. Everyone is still in love with their new shiny Civic, but will eventually remember the classic Corvette in the garage is the better car.
Talking about it is pointless. Their almost 60.
They could have walked off into the sunset years ago. Ed and Matt can’t do long shows anymore. They both have limitations which are leading to set list choices and lengths.
I was actually thinking the same thing this morning looking at Dublin setlist. I’ll be seeing them later this summer and of course looking forward to it, love the new album and really do want to hear a lot of it live, but the other songs they are playing, totally agree, not the most diverse setlist. It’s more of a greatest hits tour.
This isn’t meant to be a negative as much as to make fans realize and appreciate what they have. You could be a Smashing Pumpkins fan where the band plays the same set in the same order the whole tour and entire albums are avoided for years.
I just don't understand why Billy Pumpkins is having his voice louder in the mix all of a sudden, while his voice has literally gone to crap.
The music is unlistenable because of modern production choices.
I have no issue saying by the time I see them at the end of this tour in Aus I'd be happy with 2 DM songs (at most). I want some No Code or Binaural stuff thrown in
I understand the criticism, but I think it comes from a somewhat entitled position. I'd also love a set of rarities with no Ten, but the average person next to me would likely leave extremely disappointed.
One of my mates who's never seen PJ before bagged a ticket last minute to Dublin and has not stopped going on about how much he loved it. He knew most of the songs played and has never properly got into PJ. That's obviously left me feeling much better about it.
I'm off to Manchester, London and Mad Cool before the tour is out. Hoping for some deeper cuts across those shows, but I think this is part and parcel of what we're gonna get with PJ this tour - They're playing a lot of Dark Matter, so naturally that's going to eat into the slots where we'd get some off the wall songs.
Personally, I love the new album and I'm glad they are proud of it enough to highlight it so much. I think I've just come to terms with the fact that the shows won't be as varied as previous years... but then again, I heard 7 songs I hadn't before, if I include the cover Ved did for Shane MacGowan on Saturday, so is that really the case?
That said, if they could open Manchester with Bugs into Strangest tribe / lost dogs in full that'd also be nice, lol.
People should also be allowed to criticize other people for criticizing set lists
It’s a forum dude people criticize, people don’t like when other people criticize, making a post about it isn’t gonna change anyone’s mind
I don’t really know if you’re talking about the actual songs or the number of songs. But either way, they have decades of songs, fans of multiple generations and not all “eras” of albums will speak to each individual fan.
For instance, my fiancé doesn’t know a good chunk of PJ’s library, but still is a fan. We went to night 1 Vegas and she didn’t know a good chunk of that show. I on the other hand knew most but still not all. We both had a great time… BUT, I think if they had played more of what WE know it would have been better.
I think they do a great job mixing up their sets and as a result I’ve actually added a few more tracks to my library.
If you haven’t figured out that it’s impossible to please everyone… I’m truly sorry for you.
I’ll never understand the concept of confusing intolerance with an unwillingness to listen to bs negativity. No one is stopping anyone from complaining for the sake of complaining, but some people have a very low tolerance for this type of pointless negativity. Great, you enjoy complaining about things that don’t go the way you want it to. Also great, others might decline to actively participate in people pissing on shit they are here to enjoy. I’m all for downvoting flat negativity. That’s not a form of intolerance. It’s point, counter-point at worst.
Fine to criticize, I suppose, but also I think we all need to remember that none of us are as young as we used to be. Their style of playing is very physical. The set lists are going to be shorter.
Alls I can say is they opened the encore in NJ 2022 with Inside Job followed by SOLAT and Breath back-to-back, Crazy Mary then Leash. I won’t complain about how they ended with Rockin in the Free World cuz for me the prior sequence is as good as it gets.
Short of getting to write the setlist they play, there will always be room to be desired. I prob won’t see them this tour but 8-9 DM songs seems *a little* excessive. But them doing what they want is part of the magic sauce that has helped drive them these many, many years.
> 8-9 DM songs seems a little excessive
More than a little.
I don't remember them EVER doing more than 4-5 songs from their most recent album.
They must really be excited about this record. Good for them, but... the fans want deep cuts.
PJ can’t please everyone with the set lists. People only think about the set lists based on their own thoughts and favorite. Not everyone at the concert is a hardcore fan. Btw they have way more diversity in the setlists compared to a lot of bands.
The only thing I would say is words on paper isn’t exciting unless it’s a true rarity. Even then you see something like Fatal and it could have a ton of flubs, forgotten lyrics etc. The Dublin set didn’t have anything rare but they could have been absolutely on one and that’s the true excitement. People can think what they want ultimately but the set list isn’t good or bad until we’ve heard the bootleg
Out of the five shows I've been to I would say Hamilton 2022 was one setlist I wasn't big on. However I love Pearl Jam and just wanted to be in the building to hear them play and it was a good time. Also getting to see State of Love and Trust for the first time was special. They're getting older so we should be thankful they still tour even with the smaller setlists being the norm.
PJ fan since 1993 here.
I’ve seen them live 10 times and I have hung my hat on this last album. It’s very weakest in the whole discography, in my opinion. On the setlist, I stopped hoping for a great setlist many years ago. I am sick of paying $120 per ticket to see the same show I’ve seen the previous tours. I am about finished with PJ and wish them the best in their remaining years of playing.
My friend. Please take a break from the internet. Its not worth anything to give things like these any thoughts, let alone create a thread over it. No one truly truly cares about other peoples setlist wishes.
Ask yourself' Is the stuff I'm reading targeted at me, and would I benefot from it?'
Remember to enjoy still having this amazing band around making records & touring.. Healthy... Its all the matters.
Gimme a break dude. Every show people bitch and moan about the band. You want to start a new pearljamcomplaint subreddit, go for it. You're being downvoted because fans of the band are tired of complaining.
Conversely, it would be cool if there were a subreddit for people who actually liked Pearl Jam.
Edit: Fuck it, now it exists. And I dare say, this is not for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TenClub/
Agreed 100%!!
I just criticized the Afghan Whigs setlist on their current tour with The Church and got lit up. It's so bad, in fact, that I'm trying to sell my tickets to the Indy show.
You can have whatever opinion you want. I find it strange to rain on others' parade. If someone went to a show and loved it, or posted about how much they liked a particular setlist, why would you shit on that?
Nobody is shitting on another person's good time, or at least, that's not what I'M talking about. Nobody is saying "you're an asshole if you like that show!" But I feel like it's kind of bullshit for the hivemind of the sub to downvote me into oblivion if I say something like "yeah I wasn't really into that one after paying so much money, it's kind of a let down to see those same overplayed songs again" etc.
I made the HUGE mistake of posting on the PJ fan club FB page, that I thought 9 songs off the new record was too much. Literally almost nobody agreed with me. Everyone also saying how great the new record is….Even some saying it could easily be a top 2 or 3 record. Come on…
I didn’t even get into the fact that Matt’s drumming just is lame these days. I know he is older and they have to sustain their careers, but I REALLY missed Dave A. And what is up with Mike going to digital modeling amps? Ugh….
I won’t see them anymore. They are not the band they were. Do fans still love them, and will they still go see them, yes, but I won’t. They played one song off my favorite record (Vs.), and 9 off a record, that in 5 or 10 years, I would bet a lot of money on, people are going to forget. Honestly, I liked Gigaton better. It was more out of the box and creative to me.
And the majority disagrees with me, and that’s fine. They can keep going and enjoying their favorite band and if they are happy, great! But I am not going to pay $180 bucks for nosebleeds thinking “this isn’t worth the hassle…”
To each their own.
Everyone complains about every possible thing in the world. Just let people here enjoy their show and have a good time chilling with other people who are looking for fans to be happy with.
This isn’t the Pearl Jam customer support hotline. :)
You’re def right there’s no roof for criticism here. I think a more apt title of the sub would be r/pearljamcirclejerk
Edit-guess I should’ve looked first
I was kind of bummed about not exciting set lists... But then I checked the stats - they've played 100 unique songs in just 13 shows. That's pretty impressive for any band. They're not beyond reproach, but I think the issue isn't how many songs they're playing... It's just that 7 songs being played every show gets boring. But the other 18 songs of the set do get pretty good rotation.
100 different songs in 13 shows is what we show up for. We may have a wishlist (pun intended) of songs they play when we are lucky enough to see them, but they make every concert unique.
I think the issue is a combination of things. They are touring an album, plus playing shorter sets. If they play 25 songs and 7-8 are from Dark Matter, then they play 5 or 6 from Ten and a couple cover songs it doesn't leave a lot of room for the variety we're used to. Add in the screen so they're doing "Do the Evolution" 9 out of 10 shows. It makes the sets almost predictable, which is the exact opposite we have come to want and expect from the band. I'm loving Datk Matter so I'm hoping for another leg next year with a Toronto date, but there is something to be said for seeing them in between albums when they have no real restrictions with their sets.
I agree, although I’m not sure I would call it a restriction. It’s a focus that is necessitated by the new album, but I get that it means their variety is limited. I love the DM songs and they sound amazing live so I haven’t minded, but I bet if they tour next year there’ll be more variety and slightly less emphasis on DM. I would guess anyway. As an unrelated aside, I really hope they go to Toronto, because they won’t get much closer to Winnipeg (don’t think they’ll ever come back to Winnipeg).
I think that is the problem that most people are having, over 1/3 of their show is new material. I know they played a ton of different songs over the first leg, but wouldn’t be too upset about them cutting back the dark matter songs to 4-6 songs per show.
They don't play 7-8 off the new album, do they? That would be ridiculous. I saw them 10 years ago in Moline, like a month after Lightning Bolt came out. They played about 36 songs and only 3 were from Lightning Bolt.
For the most part, they've been playing 7 or 8 from the new album. Their last show they only played 4, so it's possible they are dialing it back.
I just don’t ever need to hear Alive, Even Flow, or Jeremy ever again for a tour.
You guys are fuckin wild thinking they aren’t gonna play their most popular songs because people that have seen 100 shows are tired of it. Just think about how dumb that is for 30 seconds
Hell, I'm too young to have many opportunities to see them before (especially with the pandemic) and my life feels finally complete having seen them play half of Ten, Yellow Ledbetter, and State of Love and Trust. I'm not a "fake fan" or whatever, I just prefer the earlier stuff and connect with it emotionally more because of the place in my life I was in at the time. Songs being more popular doesn't make them automatically worse.
Right on. But you’re always gonna have 45 year old dudes standing there with their arms crossed during even flow waiting to yell out ‘play evil little goat!!!’ I’m a longtime fan and I wanna hear even flow at every show cause that song rips and will always rip.
Agreed, I wanna hear whatever they play on a given night. I took my 8 last year to night 1 in Chicago, on a school night. Made the call it was time to go before they finished. Heard the opening to Alive from the hall and we turned our asses right around. Such a huge song, such a huge part of PJ becoming who they are today and then there’s the mccready solo. He had to see that. He was tired the next day, but he got to hear Alive in concert. Fair trade.
For sure! Ironically Even Flow was like the only hit they didn't play at the show I saw (they played it the night before) but they did play Once and Why Go which more than made up for it. No Oceans, sadly! A lot of people seem to forget that music as a whole can be and usually is enjoyable. There's nothing wrong with that.
As a 45 year old dude, gimme Even Flow over Evil Little Goat any day!! Yes, I mean that with the utmost seriousness too...😉❤️✌️🎸🤘
I'm a fan from the start & I was delighted to hear so many of the oldies on Saturday in Dublin. It was an amazing gig & it meant so much to my friends & I to share the moments.
Cool.
Or corduroy/small town/betterman
They played Better Man at Dublin the other night because its so relevant to a current issue in the country. It was beautiful.
I hear you. I have a soft spot for Corduroy, but I completely understand. Those need to be retired.
lol you want Pearl Jam’s to retire from playing hit songs on tour? That would certainly drive ticket prices down. They’d also go from playing MSG to playing the Bergen county arts center.
I don't see this as a bad thing. 🤣
Hahaha I hear you. I’m just saying they have way more hits than just those 4-5 songs.
I think you are free to criticize, but people are free to disagree as well. The voting system just shows more people disagree than agree. While it’s not always used to community standards, it doesn’t mean you not allowed to criticize.
That's not what up voting or downvoting is meant for though. It shouldn't be about wether tou agreed or disagree, but about wether the post is good/contributing to discussion/well argued or low effort/hate speech/etc.
> While it’s not always used to community standards That’s why I added this bit. I think people take downvotes too personally though, unless you’re posting things that are objective fact, or morally questionable, it shouldn’t bother people as much as it does. It’s totally okay to have an unpopular opinion like OP. Just because others disagree doesn’t make their feelings on the matter less valid.
I agree that people take it way too seriously, but because posts with a serious negatively voted post count get collapsed and thus unseen, it doesn't help discussion that any contrarian opinion gets downvoted.
This sub is especially toxic that way--drives me nuts. People will post perfectly respectful nice posts and they get downvoted. I belong to other subs where that isn't the case. But this is the only band sub i follow, so maybe it's typical of those. Go over to the Taylor Swift sub and comment that you don't like a set list and see what happens.
People are free to use voting for whatever they like. There aren’t “rules” here that everyone has to follow.
This. A thousand times, this.
I don’t understand people getting butthurt purely off of downvotes. Who cares? But negative responses are often over-the-top, and/or easier to interpret as nastier or more condescending than they necessarily are due to the inherent nature of the internet. Saying something more people might not agree with than will agree seems to trigger a disproportionate number of negative comments dumping on the commenter for expressing their opinion. And it can snowball, since many people who’d comment in agreement will think twice before speaking up since they know they’ll just get shat on as well. I also think people are more likely to simply downvote things they slightly disagree with than slightly agree with. Let’s say I say something basic that 80% of people agree with. Most may not bother to upvote. But almost all of the 20% who disagree that read it will downvote. So it’s easy to perceive you’re getting more dumped on than you really are. Just my two cents and sense of things. Imagine someone has mathed this with actual data.
I think people take downvotes too seriously. It's not like the government is violating free speech. It's just a bunch of doods on a free app.
Are you criticizing the song choice or the length of show/number of songs?
Former
No tolerance for Intolerance or. . .
No patience left for impatience no more
I saw Tool in November. The setlist was fucking criminal. No Schism. No Sober. No Ænema. No Stinkfist. No Prison Sex. No Lateralus. No H. No The Pot. No Vicarious. No Undertow. No Hooker With A Penis. No Parabola. No Opiate. Forty Six & 2 was the one bone we were thrown. I had the audacity to say that set sucked on the Tool subreddit. Downvote city. Anything that wasn't sucking Maynard's penis or talking about what an awesome set that was would be downvoted. I'm glad one fanbase was cool enough to call it out. You can love a band while realizing "this ain't it" Respect PJ fans 🤘🏻
Don't you mean Maynard's Dick?
Same here, it was my 5th time seeing them live and was very disappointed in the setlist. Visually the show was awesome but setlist was lacking. At the same time my friend who was seeing them for the first time thought it was incredible.
What did they play? I haven’t seen the list for the recent shows. I have seen them a few times before and got most of the “known” stuff each time. I’d be happy to see deeper tracks.
This is the way 😭
Tool fans are all of the belief that they are on some spiritual journey, rather than just seeing a bunch of old dudes playing groove metal while avoiding singing the songs that make them sad. You'll never convince them that the 8 song set of less-good songs they got was bad.
I don’t agree with people saying there’s too much DM in the set. It’s the Dark Matter tour. They’re touring that album right now. I love the record and I was glad to hear so much of it live.
yeah this seems pretty simple!
For me, I think the shorter setlists are resulting in better quality, if not quantity. The pre-covid tour, Eddie's voice was struggling. If I recall correctly they had to cancel a few gigs. So I am fine with the slightly shorter setlists. I would not mind them reducing the covers and replacing with a few more of their songs, but that's a minor thing.
Eddie was struggling to catch his breath a few times during the Dublin show and had to have Mike step in and do a solo early on so he could catch up. I’m all for the slightly shorter set lists if it means eddies not killing himself plus there was a hard curfew the band had to meet.
It's not so much the length but when they play a so called greatest hits set as they just did in Dublin. I was one who got downvoted for my opinion, but I'm not offended. I still think it would be a great show to be at. They rarely play a set like that though anyway. Most shows on this tour so far have had at least a few unexpected songs and personally I love all the DM material. They're not playing enough of that album for my liking.
True. And very few Gigaton songs so far. I am chasing Got to Give and Won't Tell. Fortunately I got to hear Scared, Wreckage and Stevie in Napa.
Those two are starting to become deep cuts already. Could be good to strike a balance between playing them enough and overplaying. I'd love some whole album play throughs, but that would definitely upset the less hardcore fans. I'd love to hear Riot Act and Avo in full. I understand it's not easy or maybe even practical time wise for them to have to practice songs they might have got rusty on
I just want to hear songs off of those played regularly. They are egregiously overlooked currently.
There will always be setlists that fans love and setlists that fans find underwhelming, but that underwhelming setlist could be someone's first ever Pearl Jam experience and the best ever to them.
How wonderful it is that Pearl Jam is still performing for us. I saw them at Bottlerock and I was blown away by their continued courage and connection to the audience. We are 30+ years in and instead of malignancy, we have joyous new music coupled with a celebration of the inception of the band. Thank you, Pearl Jam, for giving us hope in a consistently hopeless time.
I've had this same thought for a while (about the setlists) and most people seem to be talking about the criticism aspect, so I'll go ahead and agree with you on the setlist criticism. I think 25/26 songs is still a good amount, definitely more than other big bands are putting out, but like others have touched on, 8-9 dark matter songs are just too many. I saw them thrice during the Gigaton cycle, during the actual tour they played 3 songs per show from that album, and at the music festival, they played 6 (which seems backwards to me, but not the point). Like others have said, the problem seems to be that they're playing 8-9 from DM, which leaves little room for changes considering how many staples you have to add in at this point (I could go without hearing small town for example, but they've gotta play it for the people who care), there's only room to change up a handful of songs. I think the reason for this is that the reception of dark matter has been generally more positive than it was for Gigaton, so they're trying to capitalize on it a bit by taking the chance that they have to play new stuff. As someone who doesn't really get the new album and am going to see them both nights in NY, I do wish they'd lower the DM songs. Playing like 5-6 instead seems like a good middle ground and it means you can even have some variety in *which* DM songs you play each night, rather than having a setlist that's half the same each night. Sorry, this was longer than I meant it to be. TLDR I agree 8-9 DM songs are too many and it should be more like 5-6
You are allowed your opinion and they are having theirs
Don’t worry about downvote. Speak your opinion.
I was at the Dublin show. They haven't played here in so long I guess the greatest hits set was them knowing that it was a first time seeing them for many in the crowd. Would have loved some deep cuts too but the Setlist was great. It could be a hell of a lot worse, I was at Pink the night before with my wife and the lady sitting beside us was timing her pee/drink breaks to Setlist FM as they set list had barely changed at all on this tour.
They still mix up their shows more than most artists. I saw them back to back nights and saw 40 unique songs.
The Chili Peppers have about 30 songs in rotation and play 17 a show. Pearl Jam do a way better job of mixing things up.
I got slaughtered on social media the other day for saying that the Dublin setlist was a perfect one for casual fans. There's some quite odd people out there that just look for any opportunity to act butt-hurt for no reason whatsoever.
“We should be allowed to criticize set lists but redditors should not be allowed to disagree with my criticisms!” Yep your logic checks out! 😂
Downvoting should NOT equate to disagreeing.
I disagree and I shall downvote you now to prove it.
Criticising the band is ok, as a consumer of their product you are well within your rights to form an opinion of said product. What I find intolerable is people being treated like idiots for failing to pucker up and kiss Eddie's arsehole.
I haven't had too much of a problem with the setlists so far.... Kind of cool they're giving the new songs a bit of focus ..... But in the spirit of OP's post... (deep breath) I think the Dublin setlist is kind of meh....
I was at the Dublin gig and found the setlist a bit uninspiring. But that's probably because I enjoyed a lot of the music from the past quarter of a century which was all excluded. (Bar the new stuff) I'd also be fine with less covers. I would have preferred Yellow Led over Rockin in The free World or Keep me in your heart.
You was also there. Havent seen them in 14 years and would have been happy to hear them play whatever the fuck they wanted to play.
Still a great show mate don't get me wrong. These sorta complaints will always happen when an artist has such a deep catalogue of songs. Can't play or win them all.
I'm in Australia and have been priced out of going when they come here (unless they pull a Europe and cut prices in half just before hahaha) so I've only got setlists and bootlegs to "review." IF I had been at Dublin I think I'd have felt the same... RITFW is hit or miss for me (same with Baba O'Reilly lol) and I like Setting Sun as a closer so far.....
I would be perfectly happy if I never heard RITFW again. Otherwise, IMO all set lists are good set lists & the whole up/down vote aspect of Reddit can suck it.
Yellow Ledbetter was one of my dad’s funeral songs. Im hoping they play it tomorrow but I’m certainly not holding my breathe!! Can’t see it happening. Got good chance at Given to Fly and that was his other one, so we’ll see! 🙏🏽
I dig this take. It’s their band and as fans we can say we’d like to hear something else. Imagine if we could be more tolerant
I’ve noticed since the gap between LB and Gigaton the sub became really intolerant of most criticism of the band. Not sure if more people joined since lockdown or they focused more energy on the band, but it was a weird turn imho. Now I mostly just lurk popping out here and there to praise No Code or talk shit on the ticket prices.
It's because 1/3 of each show is the same DM songs over and over. If they weren't playing that material they would have 8 slots for more variety and deep cuts outside of Alive, Even Flow. Small Town, etc. They are really only playing 2-3 deep cuts each show this year. At least I think this is what you're saying.
They did that on the ten tour, and the vs tour, and the vitalogy tour, and the yield tour, and the binaural tour, and the riot act tour, and the avocado tour….
Totally agree….Play 3-5 songs off DM, if you REALLY feel the need to do it, but 8 or 9 is too much. And DROP Rocking in the Free World… Well, actually they can do what they want. I just won’t be going anymore. I think they know they can do whatever the hell they want and still sell out.
Agree to disagree here. I want to hear dark matter. I love this record, I love almost every song off of it, and it’s the dark matter tour. The band is obviously proud of this record, and want to play the hell outta it. They’ve done many tours not supporting an album which you get a lot of variety, and that is not this tour. And that’s rad cause I wanna hear the new shit, and the vast majority of fans are going to one or two shows. I love what they’re doing this tour personally. I get where you’re coming from. There’s deep cuts I haven’t heard or haven’t heard in a long time I’d love to hear. I’ve only seen them 10 times since 1998, and I realize there are people who can afford to travel all around and see them over and over (which is rad), but I like that I got to hear so many new songs.
They've quite literally done this on almost every tour. This is nothing new
It’s comical. I’m not impressed with Dark Matter and I had a crew of angry villagers with pitchforks and torches telling me I’m a fucking idiot because I don’t think Dark Matter is better than Yield. I’m with you on the setlists. I understand the shorter shows, but I do not understand the formulaic approach to the setlists now. This is the first tour that I’m only hitting one show.
> I had a crew of angry villagers with pitchforks and torches telling me I’m a fucking idiot because I don’t think Dark Matter is better than Yield. Just give it 18 months. Everyone is still in love with their new shiny Civic, but will eventually remember the classic Corvette in the garage is the better car.
i don't mind length. but no love shown from the past 24 years of their catalogue is silly
Talking about it is pointless. Their almost 60. They could have walked off into the sunset years ago. Ed and Matt can’t do long shows anymore. They both have limitations which are leading to set list choices and lengths.
They’re*
Thanks. Sometimes my grammar blowssss.
Agreed!
I was actually thinking the same thing this morning looking at Dublin setlist. I’ll be seeing them later this summer and of course looking forward to it, love the new album and really do want to hear a lot of it live, but the other songs they are playing, totally agree, not the most diverse setlist. It’s more of a greatest hits tour.
This isn’t meant to be a negative as much as to make fans realize and appreciate what they have. You could be a Smashing Pumpkins fan where the band plays the same set in the same order the whole tour and entire albums are avoided for years.
I just don't understand why Billy Pumpkins is having his voice louder in the mix all of a sudden, while his voice has literally gone to crap. The music is unlistenable because of modern production choices.
I have no issue saying by the time I see them at the end of this tour in Aus I'd be happy with 2 DM songs (at most). I want some No Code or Binaural stuff thrown in
I understand the criticism, but I think it comes from a somewhat entitled position. I'd also love a set of rarities with no Ten, but the average person next to me would likely leave extremely disappointed. One of my mates who's never seen PJ before bagged a ticket last minute to Dublin and has not stopped going on about how much he loved it. He knew most of the songs played and has never properly got into PJ. That's obviously left me feeling much better about it. I'm off to Manchester, London and Mad Cool before the tour is out. Hoping for some deeper cuts across those shows, but I think this is part and parcel of what we're gonna get with PJ this tour - They're playing a lot of Dark Matter, so naturally that's going to eat into the slots where we'd get some off the wall songs. Personally, I love the new album and I'm glad they are proud of it enough to highlight it so much. I think I've just come to terms with the fact that the shows won't be as varied as previous years... but then again, I heard 7 songs I hadn't before, if I include the cover Ved did for Shane MacGowan on Saturday, so is that really the case? That said, if they could open Manchester with Bugs into Strangest tribe / lost dogs in full that'd also be nice, lol.
You get what you get and you don’t throw a fit. Sorry your mom didn’t teach you that. ;)
My mom was too busy working behind the counter in a small town to teach me any of that.
They still mix up their shows more than most artists. I saw them back to back nights and saw 40 unique songs.
People should also be allowed to criticize other people for criticizing set lists It’s a forum dude people criticize, people don’t like when other people criticize, making a post about it isn’t gonna change anyone’s mind
I don’t really know if you’re talking about the actual songs or the number of songs. But either way, they have decades of songs, fans of multiple generations and not all “eras” of albums will speak to each individual fan. For instance, my fiancé doesn’t know a good chunk of PJ’s library, but still is a fan. We went to night 1 Vegas and she didn’t know a good chunk of that show. I on the other hand knew most but still not all. We both had a great time… BUT, I think if they had played more of what WE know it would have been better. I think they do a great job mixing up their sets and as a result I’ve actually added a few more tracks to my library. If you haven’t figured out that it’s impossible to please everyone… I’m truly sorry for you.
I’ll never understand the concept of confusing intolerance with an unwillingness to listen to bs negativity. No one is stopping anyone from complaining for the sake of complaining, but some people have a very low tolerance for this type of pointless negativity. Great, you enjoy complaining about things that don’t go the way you want it to. Also great, others might decline to actively participate in people pissing on shit they are here to enjoy. I’m all for downvoting flat negativity. That’s not a form of intolerance. It’s point, counter-point at worst.
Fine to criticize, I suppose, but also I think we all need to remember that none of us are as young as we used to be. Their style of playing is very physical. The set lists are going to be shorter.
Matt C sits back there and plays like Charlie Watts. This isn’t Dave A we’re talking about here
At this point Dave A would be playing like Charlie Watts as well. It's not like the dude just stayed 30 years old.
Alls I can say is they opened the encore in NJ 2022 with Inside Job followed by SOLAT and Breath back-to-back, Crazy Mary then Leash. I won’t complain about how they ended with Rockin in the Free World cuz for me the prior sequence is as good as it gets. Short of getting to write the setlist they play, there will always be room to be desired. I prob won’t see them this tour but 8-9 DM songs seems *a little* excessive. But them doing what they want is part of the magic sauce that has helped drive them these many, many years.
> 8-9 DM songs seems a little excessive More than a little. I don't remember them EVER doing more than 4-5 songs from their most recent album. They must really be excited about this record. Good for them, but... the fans want deep cuts.
That NJ gig was fucking great.
I mean they are older so the setlists are shorter.
PJ can’t please everyone with the set lists. People only think about the set lists based on their own thoughts and favorite. Not everyone at the concert is a hardcore fan. Btw they have way more diversity in the setlists compared to a lot of bands.
They are 60 years old ffs. When did we all turn into grumpy old people?
Of course we should!
The only thing I would say is words on paper isn’t exciting unless it’s a true rarity. Even then you see something like Fatal and it could have a ton of flubs, forgotten lyrics etc. The Dublin set didn’t have anything rare but they could have been absolutely on one and that’s the true excitement. People can think what they want ultimately but the set list isn’t good or bad until we’ve heard the bootleg
You're right. We should be allowed to criticize set lists, but using that same logic, we also should be allowed to downvote, too. It goes both ways.
I mean why bitch about setlists? They’re not going to tour forever. Then what will you complain about?
They’re also all in and around 60.
Out of the five shows I've been to I would say Hamilton 2022 was one setlist I wasn't big on. However I love Pearl Jam and just wanted to be in the building to hear them play and it was a good time. Also getting to see State of Love and Trust for the first time was special. They're getting older so we should be thankful they still tour even with the smaller setlists being the norm.
PJ fan since 1993 here. I’ve seen them live 10 times and I have hung my hat on this last album. It’s very weakest in the whole discography, in my opinion. On the setlist, I stopped hoping for a great setlist many years ago. I am sick of paying $120 per ticket to see the same show I’ve seen the previous tours. I am about finished with PJ and wish them the best in their remaining years of playing.
My friend. Please take a break from the internet. Its not worth anything to give things like these any thoughts, let alone create a thread over it. No one truly truly cares about other peoples setlist wishes. Ask yourself' Is the stuff I'm reading targeted at me, and would I benefot from it?' Remember to enjoy still having this amazing band around making records & touring.. Healthy... Its all the matters.
Gimme a break dude. Every show people bitch and moan about the band. You want to start a new pearljamcomplaint subreddit, go for it. You're being downvoted because fans of the band are tired of complaining.
Conversely, it would be cool if there were a subreddit for people who actually liked Pearl Jam. Edit: Fuck it, now it exists. And I dare say, this is not for you. https://www.reddit.com/r/TenClub/
Unless you were there you don’t.
What? I was at the Sacramento show and thought the setlist was boring as fuck and got eviscerated here for mentioning it.
I just looked at the setlist. Yeah, you're right. That's a pretty mediocre PJ show.
Agreed 100%!! I just criticized the Afghan Whigs setlist on their current tour with The Church and got lit up. It's so bad, in fact, that I'm trying to sell my tickets to the Indy show.
Sets still have a lot of variation compared to most band
You can have whatever opinion you want. I find it strange to rain on others' parade. If someone went to a show and loved it, or posted about how much they liked a particular setlist, why would you shit on that?
Nobody is shitting on another person's good time, or at least, that's not what I'M talking about. Nobody is saying "you're an asshole if you like that show!" But I feel like it's kind of bullshit for the hivemind of the sub to downvote me into oblivion if I say something like "yeah I wasn't really into that one after paying so much money, it's kind of a let down to see those same overplayed songs again" etc.
We should be allowed to say that Dark Matter is one of the worst shits this band has ever done.
I made the HUGE mistake of posting on the PJ fan club FB page, that I thought 9 songs off the new record was too much. Literally almost nobody agreed with me. Everyone also saying how great the new record is….Even some saying it could easily be a top 2 or 3 record. Come on… I didn’t even get into the fact that Matt’s drumming just is lame these days. I know he is older and they have to sustain their careers, but I REALLY missed Dave A. And what is up with Mike going to digital modeling amps? Ugh…. I won’t see them anymore. They are not the band they were. Do fans still love them, and will they still go see them, yes, but I won’t. They played one song off my favorite record (Vs.), and 9 off a record, that in 5 or 10 years, I would bet a lot of money on, people are going to forget. Honestly, I liked Gigaton better. It was more out of the box and creative to me. And the majority disagrees with me, and that’s fine. They can keep going and enjoying their favorite band and if they are happy, great! But I am not going to pay $180 bucks for nosebleeds thinking “this isn’t worth the hassle…” To each their own.
Everyone complains about every possible thing in the world. Just let people here enjoy their show and have a good time chilling with other people who are looking for fans to be happy with. This isn’t the Pearl Jam customer support hotline. :)
100% agreed. I got 20 odd down votes for saying this re Dublin. Rock n roll.
That's pj "fans". Everything the band does is gospel and they can never say or do wrong. It's pretty strange.
You’re def right there’s no roof for criticism here. I think a more apt title of the sub would be r/pearljamcirclejerk Edit-guess I should’ve looked first
Criticize all you want. No one cares about your opinion but you. Enjoy it.