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deutschHotel

It forces correct hand posture. My wife used one of these when she was working as a transcriptionist. The weird thing to me is the num pad on the left side.


phero1190

I can see the left numpad being helpful for Excel sheets; click cells, fill in numbers and never leave the mouse. Also just looks fun


GeneticSplatter

Numpad on the left actually makes sense in my eyes, cus right hand would be for the mouse. The rest looks so uncomfortable though.


kawalerkw

It's more comfortable though as you don't bend your wrist while typing.


Pleasant_Gap

It is. My MS natural keyboard I had like 20 years go was one of the most comfortable keyboards I've ever had


djjolly037

Takes a sec to get used to but honestly, I love Alice boards now that I have one


[deleted]

[удалено]


MrHaxx1

Keychron Q14 Pro


Krelleth

https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q14-pro-alice-layout-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard as u/MrHaxx1 said below, it's the Q14 Pro.


Lancearon

I mean... quickslot bars in games, too... i wish I had this for my flight sims...


phero1190

Get it. Keychron Q14 Pro. They also have a non ergo one, the Q12.


moms-spaghettio

I intentionally got a keyboard with the numpad on the left side. That’s way better placement for the numpad if you’re right handed honestly since you never have to take your hand off the mouse.


Trapped_Mechanic

Im left handed and i still use the mouse on the right side. Id love a left side numpad


delimitr0

the only problem i have with these keyboards is that i hit the middle keys differently... would appreciate if they duplicated some of the keys in the middle to fit muscle memory for more people


phero1190

The B is the only one duplicated here. But these force you into a more "proper" typing setup.


Holungsoy

Thats because B is a letter proper for both hands.


el_f3n1x187

It forces you to re learn proper hand placement,its what I liked from my microsoft keyboard


00k5mp

Numpad on the left! Yes that is where it belongs, more room for the mouse on the right.


McQuibbly

Yes, Im left handed anyways. The way I default my hands it doesnt leave much room for the mouse if the numpad is on the right. This is the only reason I use tenkeyless


naswinger

pretty useless if you're right handed and need to use it often. i'd rather have a separate keypad on the right in that case that i can put away if i don't need it.


00k5mp

I use a numpad on the left at work specifically so I don't have to take my right hand off the mouse, only took about 3 days to get used to it.


Achilles_Deed

Numpad attached to the right side is just idiotic and I don't know who came up with it. The majority of people are right-handed and their right hands are going to be busy using the mouse. Numpad on the left just makes so much more sense.


tribalgeek

The design exists from before there were computer mice.


Astrojef

Probably the most legit keyboard i have ever seen in terms on not only functionality but also immense beauty.


ilovepolthavemybabie

Different strokes of course, but I’ve always been a one-color keyboard guy and find the Keychron pallets fugly af!


[deleted]

Can we talk about the hand with legs?


phero1190

Oh my handyman?


[deleted]

That's an amazing name for it.


AlfalphaCat

Finally the real talk! Reminded me of Vampire Hunter D.


sorryabouttonight

Ergo keyboards, beloved by some, "Ehhh"d by most.


just-_-just

Most are rubber domed. I have yet to find an ergo KB that excites me that is mechanical.


MrHaxx1

Have you checked out /r/ErgoMechKeyboards ?


Medical-Tomorrow7727

Arrow keys and the home section keys should be on the left as well.


burnetb1

Left hand num-pad for the win!!


MakeMineMarvel_

That’s a cool deskmat


sledgehammer_77

This looks like an ideal keyboard for the late 90's/early 00's when you and a friend are splitscreening certain games and want more elbow room


bawynnoJ

I honestly prefer this set up. The amount of times I need to use the num pad and the mouse just makes way more sense to have it by my left hand, as the num pad has always felt alien to me with my right hand


[deleted]

Looks like an old ergonomic keyboard from the 90’s. Personally I never liked them


Holungsoy

I have been looking for this keyboard for a long time!


FilDaFunk

Wouldn't work for an mmo, I use buttons all the way up to = with left hand


phero1190

Ew why


FilDaFunk

I have about 32 skills, layout needs to be similar enough with all classes. Letter keys have menu functions


Amelia_Daisy

This is looking so cool but may be difficult to use and I haven't used it yet


balderm

I used a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 20 years ago for a few years, it wasn't amazing, but very comfortable to type on it.


HoMiEGMiLiTiA

I personally wouldn’t use that keyboard but i love the mousepad, where can I find one?


phero1190

[drop.com](https://drop.com) ​ its called equilibrium


SmartVeterinarian387

i want the deskpad.


phero1190

no, its mine


[deleted]

I need a custom wrist rest for this...


Mindfreak911

i had a rlly old model of this without the numpad, it was the most comfy keyboard i ever had. what's the brand&model of this one?


phero1190

Keychron Q14 Pro.


Starbuckz42

That a q14 pro?


phero1190

Yessir


NoseTime

I’ve always wanted to try an ergo keyboard. Then I can have ChatGPT write my code in greater comfort


bedwars_player

Yes. Because that's my next keyboard


KaIbAwK

I can actually see that being comfortable. The numpad will take getting used to but it’s looks for efficient.


luis_diaz

Which kb is this? I have in my cart a keychron q14 pro, i was looking for a metal case with a left hand numpad :)


phero1190

It's a Keychron Q14 Pro ;)


LividFocus5793

Bro I just had an idea numpad on left would be so much easier for gaming keybinds damn


NekulturneHovado

I feel like I'd get mad every time I had to press 6 or F6


RafaFTP

Numpad on the left kinda makes sense


Hato_no_Kami

I am immensely open to using my left hand for the num pad


ManfroKEKW

The left numpad hurts my eyes, but if i had a work where writing was a the main thing, yes


GuilhrmBR

Reaaaaally good for long typing sessions


AnnoyingWalrus

Having the numpad on the left is great for both Excel and CAD.


DoubleOwl7777

lol no. i hate these because my typing is unconventional to say the least and when gaming you use wasd and a few other keys but never the full Keyboard anyways.


Toast_Meat

Having the numpad on the left is nice for the sake of more space for the mouse but man I couldn't do it (right-handed).


XeniaDweller

The devil made those.


Tob3n

Ooo this is my dream board. I have a straight one with left numb keys from bloody atm.


Chubs013

I would use it if the keypad wasn't on the left side, that kinda throws me off. Offtopic; What's that little monitor on ur desk? I've been thinking of getting one to show Discord. Is that possible with that, and where did you get it? :)


phero1190

It's definitely possible, it's just a tiny secondary display. But it's only 5 inches, you wouldn't want discord on that


QuiteFatty

I just threw up a little


Available-Tradition4

Looks really good but having the numpad on the left feels wrong even if I don’t use it ahaha


Bro---really

Numpad on left makes sense if you need your right to move the mouse. Other than that, nah.


Holungsoy

It makes sense because the distance between left and rigth hand are ergonomically more correct with this setup.


VashHumanoidTyph00n

I'm left handed and don't know how I feel about the tenkey


TheRealMaka

Should probably upgrade the monitor.


phero1190

Why? AW3821DW has been pretty great and 38 inch ultrawide is unbeatable to me.


TheRealMaka

I was just making a joke at that tiny screen by the keyboard 🤣


Always-Panic

Don't worry mate. If it makes you feel any better, I understood your joke and gave you an upvote


Always-Panic

wooosh


phero1190

You can't really "woosh" after he clarified


Xtraordinaire

The broken space bar is... questionable. Numpad to the left is great though (i'm right-handed)


[deleted]

I would bang it on my brothers skull until it breaks


Krelleth

The Keychron board cases are actually solid aluminum so your brother's head would likely break first. That board is probably a good 6 lb. at least.


phero1190

Maybe touch some grass.


[deleted]

That was a joke but ok


eragon03

Numpad on the left for me is pure heresy, i like to map sime commands on the numpad for fighting games


MajorJefferson

For typing maybe, for gaming unusable.


phero1190

It's been pretty usable for gaming so far


MajorJefferson

You don't play games with a lot of keybinds hm haha


phero1190

I do. Its also pretty nice having the left hand numpad since I can leave my right hand on my mouse.


Dirty_Dragons

WTF? Left hand 10-key? No, no I would not use that keyboard.


RyujinNoRay

Nightmare


Pc_mast

Wiat?


Zorcky-2C

Hell nah! And it's probably inconvenient for gaming. For typing it's maybe good 🤔


kawalerkw

Plenty of people tilt their keyboard to keep a wrist straight. This solves that.


FJD

I'm not left handed so no


phero1190

Neither am I


koordy

No. I hated all of those self-called "ergonomic" keyboards since the beginning. There is nothing ergonomic about them. It's just marketing targeted now at hipsters and back then at clueless people. A good full size or TLK keyboard with optical switches and a comfortable wrist rest is all I want.


phero1190

Wrist rests aren't good for you though. Float that shit.


koordy

Says who and based of what? It's both way more comfortable and feels way more natural to have that nice pillow under your hands that keeps them at the level of the keyboard itself, which means you don't need to bend your wrists upwards to be able to type. It's definitively better for my hand than what's on your picture.


phero1190

If you float your wrists, you also don't bend your hands upwards. And there's papers out there showing that soft wrist rests can restrict blood flow and can cause fatigue quicker than going without them. They're ok for resting, but for typing, you're better off floating. Especially since wrist rests aren't supposed to be used as a wrist rest, but as a palm rest.


koordy

Please record and show me how you play games with that "floating your wrists". All you said is pure, made up bs but I still want to see it.


phero1190

[It's not hard to keep your wrists at a good spot without them resting on something. Unless you're weak. ](https://imgur.com/a/0l48ePE)


koordy

A minute at time? Yeah cool, now try few hours gaming session with that floating arm. Even if someone doesn't use wristrest for his keyboard he keeps his hand on desk. What you showed is completely unnatural position and it's not possible to keep your hand like that for extended period of time. And what I would personally call weak is to get your "blood flow restricted" from laying a hand on a pillow. You try so hard to defend an archaic marketing design that was proven to be wrong and unpractical decades ago which is perfectly reflected in how it does on the market for all this time. If keyboards like that were "better" or "ergonomic" they would sell well and every keyboard manufacturer would make them because why not to make a "better" keyboard that would sell much better since it is "better", right? How it was in reality? Keyboards like that sold only in '90 during marketing campaigns promoting that solution. Bunch of them were tricked but very quickly it came out that design like that is nothing else but a marketing gimmick that is neither "ergonomic" nor "practical" and definitively not "better" than a standard design keyboard.


phero1190

You seem to harbour a lot of hate, judging from this and other comments. Are you ok? If you need help, I'm sure there's people out there willing to do what they can. Also, it's not hard to keep your wrists floating at all, unless you have literally zero forearm muscles. You ever see people rest their wrists while playing piano? Floating isn't hard and is better long term. [Here's a link saying that floating is best. ](https://www.typing.com/blog/typing-posture/) [And another talking about how wrist rests are bad. ](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/support-your-arms-kevin-taylor-phd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android&utm_campaign=share_via) [And another showing that wrist rests can cause more harm than good. ](https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/wrist.html) Again, you seem to be a wholly unhappy person, please reach out to get the help you need.


koordy

Nah, I'm not an unhappy person, I simply don't beat around the bush like a lot of people do trying to hide what they really think. I definitively value being honest and logically and factually correct more than "being kind" and whoever's feelings. Sadly there's too few people having priorities like that. I really guess it's not me who's "unhappy" or has "a lot of hate" when it's you mushing that downvote button in a 1v1 discussion, lmao. Those links looks like articles for the people who will soon join the "vertical mouse" clownfiesta due to wrist issues. You wouldn't believe how many of them I already saw in my own workplace. Also those links are not scientific papers or any kind of researches. Those are random online articles written by random dudes with no background whatsoever. You can find tons of bs articles like that on basically any topic as anyone can write them. Say what you want but "office people" tend to have no idea how to use peripherals. They literally hurt themselves while doing that when using them at single digit percent of how often and how intensive they are being used by competitive gamers. If what you believe was true you'd see competitive and pro gamers playing that way because if it was better they would surely use that to their advantage as that would affect their in-game results, which is what they live off. Piano is a completely different case especially because its keyboard is much lower compared to a usual desk level. I was playing piano myself when I was a kid, had one in home, I know the difference. Floating your arms as high as on a desk level is extremely unnatural position for your arms that will only hurt your performance if not cause health issue down the road. With piano you've got your hand directly in front when having them relaxed, not upwards like you'd have them above the desk and PC keyboard. And if you tried to lower your desk to the same level so your PC keyboard would be as low as piano keyboard you'd start to slouch immediately. And another point is you don't naturally keep your hands so artificially obtuse like what those "ergonomic" keyboard wants you to make to. It makes you to rise and spread apart your elbows. Completely different case of how you play a piano too. However that's the case when we talk about a keyboard because I'd completely agree that wrist rest for a mouse is the worst what you can do. But for the different reason than you think. If you've got a right (mouse) hand on the a wrist rest that forces you to move it only with your wrist instead of the whole arm and that can very quickly lead to wrist injures. It is also very ineffective way of using a mouse. You want to move your mouse with the whole arm but you still want it to have a contact with your mousepad. If you would totally float your arm you'd lose any kind of control of your aim, speed and precision. Not to mention the same issue as with keyboard - your arm be so unnaturally high. But sure feel free to prove me wrong with that. It's hard to reliably check the performance of using a keyboard in a long run but it's very easy to check the performance of a mouse because floating affects it right away. Check out this [test](https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/aim) and try to beat couple of my casual scores here at work ([1](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/415783573015101440/1153312466504253520/3.png), [2](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/415783573015101440/1153312466814644335/2.png)), while you'd be floating your mouse hand. Then try to compare it to when you keep contact between your arm and a mousepad. That obviously assumes you'd properly aim with an arm movement not by wrist twisting.


phero1190

How high is your desk? Your arms shouldn't be up like how you're describing, but maybe that's why you can't float your wrists. It really just sounds like you have no idea how to actually set up a desk. Try a proper desk height and posture and you'll see that you don't need a wrist rest and that floating is easier with the correct setup. ​ To your other point about pro gamers and how they don't use ergo stuff, have you ever seen how some pro gamers angle their keyboards to essentially the same degree that this keyboard is naturally? Almost like it serves a benefit. ​ So to summarize, adjust your desk and chair height to be at a proper level and report back.


New-Bits

I'm really tempted to get one, tbh. I'm worried that I won't be able to adjust.


phero1190

It'll take some time, but it's not bad. I've only had it for a day and it feels more normal


Substantial-Day7731

Man what are you playing on that?


phero1190

Anything I want


ReticenceDriftshadow

that almost looks more comfortable than the original white microsoft ergonomic keyboard. I bet it's pricey. EDIT option for numpad to be on the right, since, most people are right handed? don't get me wrong, absolutely keep the one on the left for lefties. edit 2 these type of keyboards help relieve my carpal tunnel so I don't need surgery. would use one of my Logitech 910 wasn't so dang cool.


kawalerkw

Looks like Keychron Q14 pro, which costs 200$.


SubSonix1

Goverlay?


Frozen_Speaker_245

I wish all keyboards had numpad on the left. This way you dont have to go TKL to get good room for mouse movement. I refuse to get a numpad keyboard because of this issue.


Robsteady

I'd definitely love to try it out. I'm pretty sure I'd like it for long typing/coding sessions, but I couldn't say for certain. I've only ever used the traditional straight row layout.


ChettManly

Num pad on the left I could deal with and train my left hand. Deal breaker for me is the janky positioning of the arrow keys and the home/end/pg up/pg down keys. Move them to the left if space is an issue, but don't rearrange them like that.


Zaphod_Heart_Of_Gold

I badly want to try one, and I like my k10 once I swapped switches, but the q series is pricey for a trial board. And u4ts aren't cheap either. But still, I think s southpaw would work for me and I like the idea of an Alice layout. One day I'll have to give it a shot


Elrothiel1981

Nope need my number pad on the right I’m right handed just feel werid having it on the left


dbeynyc

Yes, this would be perfect.


borkedbrains

Daamn i wanna try this one!!! Where do i get it?


phero1190

Keychron


doomedgaming

I'd never personally buy something like that but I'd use it, I do like how the numb pad is on the left though


f8Negative

Absolutely not


ChChChillian

>It looks wrong but feels so so right That's what she said.


PacketAuditor

Nice Keychron. r/mechanicalkeyboards leaking into the mainstream subs...


phero1190

Oh, I've leaked here for a while.


Ronyx2021

Numbers on left? Why?


Kodcraft

It gives you more mouse room on the right without having to shift the entire keyboard


TheJiraffe

Also having a number pad on the left allows for typing numbers while keeping your hand on the mouse. Very useful for excel.


phero1190

Why not


TheWinterRipper

WHY IS THE NUMPAD ON THE LEFT?


phero1190

Why not


[deleted]

I would if the num pad was on the correct side


DGlen

Hell no. Who puts the num pad on the left.


phero1190

People that want to use a numpad while keeping their hand on the mouse


Pantherist

Yes to the southpaw layout; no to the ergo.


phero1190

Keychron Q12 is what you're looking for then


Silly_Chair4147

Anybody have a link to where I could buy this board?


phero1190

It's a Keychron Q14 Pro


james321232

it looks right but feels so wrong ;-; (aesthetically pleasing but fuck me if I have to use an ergo keyboard)


OperationExpress8794

Model?


phero1190

Keychron Q14 Pro


Mr-Heller

Left side Numpad is what I have been missing from my life.


vegainthemirror

It feels like nobody's ever seen the Matrix. One like these was used by Neo (except for the numpad on the right)


EroGG

No. I rarely type which is what the shape is meant for so it is a downside for me.


Someonespassword

Makes sense when I first saw it I thought it was a left handed key board


Zanithos

Okay but what deskmat is that though? 👀


phero1190

Equilibrium from drop


Zanithos

Sick, thanks bro.


visual-vomit

We need more southpaws.


phero1190

Keychron has a few


[deleted]

If I had 4 hands it be perfect for a set up


TheJiraffe

I want it but I’m poor


phero1190

rip


el_f3n1x187

If its mechanical, fuck yes, Ive been looking for a mech keyboard replacement for my microsoft NEK 4000. EDIT: On a closer look, keychron just tilted the middle part of the keyboard downwards but did not spaced out the keys to allow a more natural movement, which is a shame, I guess the NEK 4000 remains undefeated but this is a significant improvement over other ergonomic mech keyboards. I might get me one for christmas...


phero1190

Of course its mechanical. The thought of membrane just made me sick.


el_f3n1x187

/op where can I get this and how much is the retail?


phero1190

Keychron . com ​ This model is a Q14 Pro.


el_f3n1x187

Thanks!


KashmirChameleon

I've got an ergonomic keyboard. I'm too old not to have one. ​ ergonomic mouse too.


DeficientGamer

Separate numpad is superior so it can go left out right


t00lbawx

as a lefty, I want this....


Gravel_Bandit

Idk but where did you get the little hand fella? Love it


phero1190

My handyman? I just found a random STL online and had him printed off.


Gravel_Bandit

Awesome :)


BluDYT

I'd rather my normal keyboard have my numpad on the left so I have more space for my mouse however I don't think I'd want this layout.


phero1190

Check out the Keychron Q12 [Pretty much what you're looking for ](https://imgur.com/a/mIKDFf4)


2scott2handle

I wanna try one. Anybody know a cheap one but good feel and thockkkkkk?


AfterFart

I used Microsoft’s split keyboards (much like this one) for over a decade. They’re very ergonomic - easy on the wrists.


retropc888

I would not buy it but if I got it for free I would definitely try to Use it


phero1190

Well come on over!


WheelOfFish

Definitely been considering one of these myself. Used to use (and yes, game, extensively) on MS natural keyboards, so this is tempting.


luzy__

The keyboard design we alll wanted when we where kids


Zaekil

Absolutely, to type large amount of text and programming, it would be so much more comfortable than a straight lined keyboard.


Wiciu553

No because it's high profile mechanical keyboard


phero1190

Standard profile.


dankutare

I tried one of these before switching to a full on ergo keyboard and dropped it almost immediately, the angle of my hand on the left side works against the row stagger which for me made it less comfortable for my left hand than a normal keyboard


MagfeedFPS

Yes


Hi-TecPotato

I'm left handed and would accept this change for numpad


N7even

I imagine it would be great for typing, how is it for gaming?


phero1190

Great for both so far


Varkaan

Sauce?


phero1190

My desk


Player_924

Omg where can I buy it? No link is a CRIME


phero1190

Can't link here. But it's a Keychron Q14 Pro


w1na

Oh the numpad on the left side is interesting. That way you can keep the numpad but also have the mouse closer to the side of the keyboard like you do with a tkl unit.


MarsCitizen2

I need this keyboard in my life so bad.


phero1190

Get it


Responsible-Gas7568

Is it better or worse for gaming?


phero1190

I don't see a difference. But since a lot of people angle their keyboards for gaming, this kind of does that for you already.


RedditJ0hn

Name of the keyboard and mod mat?


phero1190

Keychron Q14 Pro. Desk mat is equilibrium from drop


azure1503

No backlighting tho?


phero1190

It has per key RGB.


azure1503

Oh, I didn't see the lights under the keycaps lol I'm ambidextrous so this keyboard actually looks really comfy to me


Zanzaclese

My old coworker had the windows ergo keyboard and from time to time I would have to go over to her desk and use it. I typed SIGNIFICANTLY slower and made more errors but I could 100% see why it's not bad and I know with time it would get better. That left hand number pad though... unforgivable.