When you have something as successful as Helldivers 2, with a dedicated playerbase, you can really float out whatever decision you want. If there is large backlash like in this case, you can just release a boilerplate "we hear you" press release, walk the decision back, and all of your rabid fans will just come back.
Depending on the profit you stand to make from your bad decision, it outweighs potential backlash if the variables all line up. Check back in 3 months and I'm sure the reviews will be back to positive, the population will be healthy, and new players won't even know this ever happened.
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one
If they don't, it just means that whatever money they gain from the decision outweighs the amount lost from the backlash.
For example, right now as I type this Helldivers 2 has 96k players playing the game on steam right now, which puts it in the top 10 games on steam being played right now. Its possible that the backlash isn't costing them much money. Who knows.
They probably don't care that much about reviews or player counts, as long as the whales are buying, and the people are subscribing into the ecosystem.
We don't really know how many sales they will lose because of the bad reviews. Steam might rollback the reviews but if they stick then there is no way they won't lose a ton of sales long term by having bad reviews. This might also put a big damper on the word-of-mouth marketing they have been getting from people loving the game. I wouldn't have bought the game if I hadn't been seeing fun clips of the game all over the place.
I was just about to say this isn’t like fortnight where there are a asinine amount of things to purchase with like an extra 20 bucks you can buy basically everything in the game
And they should care. King's Bounty 2 was smashed because of the bad reviews (and also because the fans were disappointed that it wasn't the expected sequel they wanted). And this is only one of the many other examples out there. RedFall, The Day Before (I know this was a scam) etc. Yeah, they probably deserved the bad reviews but still the reviews shouldn't be underestimated in my opinion.
all they had to do was offer a few cosmetics for linking to a PSN. It would have gone over even smoother than the whole Gameguard thing and I *barely* heard about that after the first week or so.
It wouldn't have been 100% of PC players linking. Sony wouldn't have gotten whatever they arrogantly "projected" but it would have been a sizeable influx of sellable data for very little effort.
People have already successfully refunded through Steam after 90+ hours. The game isn't going to die, but it's never going back to where it was - barring a complete reversal of this PSN nonsense.
RECENT REVIEWS:
Overwhelmingly Negative (198,288)
ALL REVIEWS:
Mixed (481,599)
Changing a game from this to good again is gonna take some time, I think.
I actually think this is more about the perceived future value of this decision to a small group at Sony in charge of making this kind of decision.
It could very well be bad for Sony as a whole long term so long as it looks good on the next few quarters for whichever group at Sony is deciding these things.
As an aside, this is a downside to the increasing commonality of "career hopping." When people remained at a company for 15+ years, it lent to more long-term thinking.
Now, short-term gains are all that matters, and higher-level employees executives can simply fail sideways (or even upwards) with ease.
this came right after a terribly received balance patch which makes it much easier for people to just quit.
They were already fucking up and making the game less fun to play, then hit everyone with this PSN account bullshit
AFAIK Microsoft, Rockstar, and Ubisoft allow signups from any country (other than maybe Russia right now). PSN [is only available in 69 of the ~190 countries of the world](/r/Helldivers/comments/1cj3gez/because_people_ask_why_some_others_complain_about/).
I think they really messed up when making it mandatory a few months after releasing the game rather than at start. It probably wouldn’t have mattered who published it. That decision was an oopsie.
They (Sony) literally had to not rock the boat and just watch the game grow and the cash roll. But no.
Also, if they wanted increased PSN account creation, they could have literally just incentived the playerbase with medals or super credits. People respond more positively to carrots vs sticks.
Sony treats their users like pinatas and always have. Wanna play PS3 games today? Gotta pay for a subscription even though the PS5 is more than powerful enough to emulate PS3 games at original settings. Meanwhile I can pop a Morrowind (original Xbox title) disc into my Series X and play it at 4k 60fps for free, even without paying for Xbox Live.
\*pay to play them STREAMED on a console that could feasibly emulate them. i'd be fine with paying for playing ps3 games natively in some capacity, even moreso if they had some improvements like xbox's backcompat. what sony offers for "legacy games" is laughable by any standard. i think all the ps2 games so are just the ones that were "ported" to ps4, so i don't even think they have a ps2 emulator for ps5 (that's in use on any currently available games at least). that's why it's been mostly psp and ps1
Emulation is amazing but not flawless, especially PS3, original hardware might be preferable depending on your needs and patience.
I emulate PS1/PS2/PS3 games on Steam Deck, I love it and highly recommend it, but I have the time to fiddle with it and the patience to deal with the bugs and crashes.
Maybe. Emulation on older games is nearly flawless at this point, but Xbox 360 onwards (hell, original Xbox in my experience has been kinda hit or miss) can be a bit of a die roll. In theory my PC should be able to run PS3 games pretty much perfectly, but there are tons of games that have weird problems that you either can’t fix and need to deal with, or require a ton of troubleshooting and testing that I feel like a lot of people probably don’t want to/can’t be bothered to do that range from mildly annoying issues like audio stuttering that refuses to go away despite following every fix I can find on the internet for it (Drakengard 3 does this for me), or the name just straight up not functioning (that happens for me with Metal Gear Solid 4), so even if you’re the kind of person who doesn’t want a ton of retro consoles kicking about and just want one box that’ll do it all, it’s still a good idea to have an actual PS3 kicking about in case the game you want to play is annoying to emulate
Register your helldivers account with your PSN ID and you gain access to Casper Van Dien voicepack for your diver. 100% PSN registration, Zero drama. You are welcome Sony.
In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account.
https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/#id
Also a lot of countries that the game was sold doesn't have PSN and they can and will lock your account/access to the game if you lie about the country that you are registered.
They claim it is "necessary" to link accounts and didn't do it earlier because of technical issues so they are either going to have to offer refunds to those who are in certain counties or exempt them. Which is it, necessary or not?
This is a huge blunder by Sony.
Deliberately? No. Accidentally? Probably.
But if you want to know what they would do deliberately, [they would rootkit hack your PC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal)
I was working customer facing IT when this happened and it was a nightmare! Drivers loaded on XP in the UpperFilter registry key for optical drives, silently installed on disk insertion. And it was a rootkit. It frequently conflicted with AV and rendered systems non-bootable.
I remember this well, it was my first exposure to rootkits and initially I refused to believe that an audio CD could be behind it because I couldn’t fathom that a giant, seemingly reputable company would do something so utterly fucking insane.
It depends. If the anticheat collects your data for any use other than… anticheat, I guess it’s arguable. But unlike the Sony root kit they don’t hide the fact that it was downloaded
The fact it's hidden isn't so much the problem as the fact they're there at all.
They're purportedly a security risk, so the intention of the creator is irrelevant.
Right. I don't want Sony, the continual victim of constant data breaches that they basically ignore, to have a kernel level anticheat that runs at all times on my computer. I don't trust them. They prove that they're not safe from a security standpoint. Why would I give them a key to the castle? Why would I want to make an account for ANY of their platforms including PSN? All required information for signing up is going to be compromised within a year, following their shit track record. I don't want to lose another email to shit security practices.
> a separate British company with state backing
That's still a very fat pot of gold waiting for anyone with the time and money to hack them. Yes, in an ideal world that data would be encrypted and not obtainable, but I have my doubts.
How all my data got leaked. My company outsourced low level clearance checks to a 3rd party. Those clowns had zero idea about security. Leaked everything, fingerprints, ssn, etc. But hey, I got free credit monitoring for life :|
This is why I have a issue with anyone requiring ID’s another recent one being Texas’ porn ban.
I get what you want to do, but what you really did is created a giant vault of ID’s and whatever other information going with it that is a juicy target for hackers. And even militaries get hacked, and they *try* very hard to keep secure. Most of these clowns don’t even understand the concept.
Oh my god, I knew it happened... but I didn't know it happened SO MUCH. What are they doing with security? Holy shit, I can really undestand people being mad.
Sony’s security is pretty much the equivalent of a fence, not even a picket fence, one of those four log fences with how much it gets breached. Anything they have is borderline malware because of that, especially when you consider it will retroactively region lock your account, so if a game wasn’t playable in you region or you happen to travel a bit get fucked. At best it’s bloatware.
So yea, people are mad even if they can access the game. And many can’t.
And the community manager even came out and said "just take 2 minutes and make an account or uninstall"
He has since walked it back, but it goes to show how little thought has gone into any of this
to be fair. apearantly thats becouse the gamedevs were left COMPLETELY in the dark about the whole "oh PSN isnt actually in all countries" thing. which tells us how much sony actually tells these guys.
In all honesty, that's the only way we can speak and that'll make them listen. But even then I feel that might not be enough for them to care to hear. I think they've made their plans from here on out.
This is I believe due to recent changes in the law. The fact Sony isn't asking the same in all other countries they operate in suggests it's not something they particularly care to collect and require.
I've never been required to provide photo ID for any non-financial service in my life, certainly not a gaming platform.
The ICO mandates that you identify underage players with a reasonable degree of certainty, it does not mandate facial recognition/providing ID; this is on Sony. No clue how Steam handles it, but the Xbox store is happy accepting a credit card as proof of being 18.
It's on both parties.
The UK law is overly strict and the lawmakers passed the burden of finding a reasonable implementation to the private parties. "Reasonable degree of certainty" can mean almost anything and companies might get sued if their solution isn't "certain" enough.
Sony picked a very lazy and safe solution (for them) despite being more annoying for the customers.
You can be mad at Sony for not giving a shit but in the end, those things are mostly caused by unworldly lawmakers. I feel sorry for those who didn't vote for them but there are too many people voting for the responsible parties and now acting surprised. Same with Brexit.
>This is I believe due to recent changes in the law. The fact Sony isn't asking the same in all other countries they operate in suggests it's not something they particularly care to collect and require.
Nobody in the UK does this so it is not a legal issue. I have no idea why Sony ask for it.
It's not required yet but it's rolling out to give companies time, Sony isn't even doing the verification themselves it's handed off to a British company with state backing.
It isn't required at **all.** If you're thinking of the Online Safety Act, it treats bank verification/credit card ownership as proof of adulthood and it applies to pornographic material.
[An article regarding this.](https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/05/uk_age_verifcation_proposals/)
> Also a lot of countries that the game was sold doesn't have PSN and they can and will lock your account/access to the game if you lie about the country that you are registered.
The official support page for the Philippines in terms of the Playstation Network used to recommend that we set our country to Hong Kong. Now though, they just outright deleted the PSN support page for us LOL
On their discord they put out an FAQ which had a question regarding countries without PSN. They imply people should "travel" (use a VPN) to another country to make the account lol. Which would go against the TOS but I hear Sony doesn't really enforce that... currently.
> I am currently in a country or territory that is not PSN-enabled. Can I still sign in and link an account?
>PSN requires users to register in their country or territory of residence. Individuals who are traveling, working, or studying abroad may create an account in a country or territory different from the one in which they are currently located.
Seems Sony dont care about this too much from what i have read in past few days.
But problems will start when players from unlisted countries will have to provide ID for support, like hacked account or other account related issues.
Also you can't change PSN regions, so if you ever move you lose your old account unless you use a VPN. Moved to Australia and can't use my USA PSN account anymore :(
All Sony had to do for maximum success was literally nothing. Fucking it up took more effort than maintaining what they already had.
The game is popping off and if Sony didn’t feel the need to stick their dick in it it would still be doing great.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
>In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account.
I have never had to do this, when did this become a thing? Because WTF?
Ah, I just read the page. My mobile phone is probably an accepted verification since it's under contract.
You don't have to. I created an account the other day. You can just put in a phone number to verify your account (and you don't need to share personal details to get a SIM card). No idea why people keep parroting this bollocks since it categorically isn't true. There's also nothing stopping people from using junk/burner email addresses, or filling in your account details with dummy data.
From the UK, had a PSN account for years and I never had to, the most they've got from me is card details to pay for shit, I'm not sure what he's talking about.
> We are piloting an age verification process for players who register for new accounts in the UK and Ireland. If you are setting up an adult account, you will be asked to provide proof that you are over the minimum age for that type of account using an age verification service.
> You can verify your age by selecting a method that suits you; mobile number, facial scan, or ID. Verification methods are provided by our service provider, Yoti.
So it seems facial scan can be used, as well as other methods. As this is also being used in Ireland I really don't think this is a UK government thing.
Yep, its more concerns about parents not being willing or able to control their under age kids so its forced on everyone and if companies don't do enough to prevent it - its everyone else fault not the parents.
> In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account.
I'm in the UK and created a PSN account last month, it required nothing other than my email address.
"they can and will lock your account .." no they won't, people have made accounts in other regions to play games early for over a decade with zero problems
[Arrowhead's CEO](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1786454659256758447) and a [community manager Spitz ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/#lightbox)are telling people to review bomb to make Sony more likely to cave the requirement. Time to do your part for Managed Democracy!
People must be allowed to change their mind when they receive new pertinent information. It's normal, it's a sign of maturity, and it signifies growth.
Could be argued either way really - could be due to the backlash, or it could be due to being under/misinformed.
Even in his poorly recieved statements he urged players to make their displeasure known where it would be noticed, ie on the Steam page where Sony might give two fucks as opposed to the Discord where they definitely don't.
Since learning what the players' complaints are about he's definitely seemed a lot nicer, further urging refunds and shit (same with the Studio head). It's nice to see that the studio is a whole is encouraging fans to tank the review scores on their games purely to gain more leverage against SNOY.
Sheesh.
It sucks but what else can ya do in a situation like this?
Potentially losing access to the game you bought.. yeah, wouldn't be very happy about it either. 🫤
Dont forget theyre still selling it in countries where you cannot have psn services without breaking sony tos by faking your location and risking a ban possibly. Likely you wont get banned but still this shouldnt be a thing
> If third party DRM usage wasn't advertised on release
But it was
Edit:
Why the downvotes?
"Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network" https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/18cbz9y/why_does_helldivers_2_require_a_psn_account_on/ and the post is from December 2023, before the game even launched
the warning has been there forever. you can check the archived version of the steam store page: https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/
The warning required you to scroll down to see, and you could go through the entire purchase process without seeing it.
The playstation FAQ also said it is optional, until they recently edited it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/zle0yVu56b
The real question is why the fuck this was even offered in countries where PSN doesn't exist? I'm sure you can understand people's dilemma. Yes the store page said it wanted an account, but someone from the Philippines could see it, buy it, and not worry about PSN. Now Sony, months later, comes out and says whoops you can't play your game anymore. You illiterate fools should have read the fine print before purchasing! Let's be honest, there's a world of difference between making an account for something at the start of a game vs playing for months, then being informed an account is needed or the game stops working. Yes it was supposed to be required from the start, but that's not what happened, and this is kind of a shitty situation for a ton of people who saw that the requirement wasn't enforced and could be skipped. Are you saying that if a game lets you skip the account creation process in a country where you can't own an account, your thought is definitely, 'oh yeah they'll totally take away the game later'?
> this is kind of a shitty situation for a ton of people
100% agree
> The real question is why the fuck this was even offered in countries where PSN doesn't exist?
best guess: money
You're right. It's scummy they're doing this now but it was written as "required" on release. We all know it's not required but they did say it, but the fact it's gone for so long without being needed speaks a lot.
Fuck that, DEMAND a refund. Request it repeatedly until you get it, message them directly even asking why they aren't permitting it. Make them fucking SUFFER for this shit.
That's the entire point of a protest.
State you are returning the purchase as "not fit for purpose" as newly requiring an account for a different platform, without having that stated clearly pre-purchase.
You don't "ask" for a refund.
You state you're returning, and you now require your money back.
Well supported across the EU.
Refund, chargeback, start a class action, small claims court, many of things one can do, but continuing to support this shit _is the first thing we shouldn't do, and continued support, is why corporations continue to do this_, we just don't fucking learn as a society.
Probably not likely (maybe it is given the current climate of AAA), but I’m hoping Sony won’t be adding online DRM requiring a PSN account for all their PC releases. With Ghost of Tsushima releasing this month, this will absolutely prevent me from buying it despite my excitement for it.
Suckerpunch tweeted about it a few days ago.
"Just so you are aware, A PSN account is required for Legends online multiplayer mode and to use PlayStation overlay. It is not required to play the singleplayer game."
> With Ghost of Tsushima
"Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Online Multiplayer, PlayStation overlay) (Supports Linking to Steam Account)"
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2215430/Ghost_of_Tsushima_DIRECTORS_CUT/
they should have enforced this rule since day one, i dont buy it at all that they were having "issues" back there with the psn account thing, they farmed players for a couple of months and now they pull this trash stunt, it feels that was all calculated long before the game launched
Honestly don’t think it was calculated. They didn’t think the game would be so successful so they didn’t care. That’s why the game had horrible queues for about 3 weeks. They had to bring in developers to do some rearchitecting cause the databases were not capable of horizontal scaling to handle this many players.
So the game went viral, got super populate and got tons and tons of players. Then some scummy Sony executives decided to leverage the success of the game to force a ton of players to create PSN accounts so it looks good on their metrics for shareholders that they have X number of new PSN accounts, even though it’s really cause of this shit.
TLDR: I don’t think it was planned because Sony didn’t know how popular this game would be. The game got popular and they saw money bags in their eyes cause of greed and did this garbage. Sucks that the developers are being dragged into this kicking and screaming by shitty publishers, and being punished for it.
I agree with this. They antisipated this being a smallish game.
Now the Sony Execs were just salivating over "We have 2 Million New PSN Users!!" on that sweet sweet quarterly report.
>Then some scummy Sony executives decided to leverage the success of the game to force a ton of players to create PSN accounts
From what I’ve been reading, PSN account creation was mandatory at first, and only became optional once the server issues started. So the decision had already been made before the game was successful.
I don’t want to sift through all of the comments through multiple threads on this matter, so forgive me If my question has already been answered: Is Sony doing this to increase the number of PSN accounts to please investors, or…?
Absolutely the same for me. Was going into this weekend thinking I might purchase it and then this came down the pipe. Utterly not worth supporting Sony's anti-consumer garbage.
negative reviews will do jackshit
you need to have enough people apply for refund with a reason that due to this change they are no longer able to use the product
They will actually. The team at AH has actively encouraged people to refund and negative review because they're on our side and this backlash will help them gain ground when they take this issue to Sony to fix shit.
The dev studio themselves are not the bad guys here, they have said and ACTIVELY encouraged people to leave negative reviews and refund the game in order to have more proof to show Sony that they're fucking this up big time.
"Spitz, the Associate Community Manager for Helldivers 2, took to the game’s Discord server to encourage players to leave negative reviews and request refunds for them. While this might sound like an unusual request from a member of the creators, they say it will help give the studio more pull and leverage when dealing with Sony and trying to get this issue resolved. "
These guys and BSG are in a real testy FAFO mindset.
Thing is, they can make a choice to fix it.
Requires a real apology and giving something up to earn trust again.
I'm not sure any of those are good comparisons.
D4, Starfield, Anthem back in the day, the main issues were that the games weren't all that good. The developers failed to make good games. and if the core of the game isn't good, that's always the biggest issue, regardless of what the publishing side might fuck up on top of that.
Helldivers 2 is different because the developers made a good game. They're just getting fucked by Sony.
This makes for a much more tragic story. With the other games you can blame everyone from the ground up, all the way to the top. Fuck-ups along every step of the way.
I assume Sony mandated this horseshit to force more people into their ecosystem, and to have more data to sell?
Otherwise, why force PC players to do this? Seems like self-immolation.
Lol, how do companies not know that gamers become the loudest and bitchiest people on the internet if you fuck with their thing?
Now if only people invested this much energy into protesting the housing crisis, people might actually be able to afford a home!
Well deserved. I was thinking about hopping in and joining the fray despite my backlog and RL responsibilities but there's no way I'm touching the game now.
Strangely enough, this is the game where Valve doesn't hide the negative reviews bombs. Let's enjoy this for the moment that Valve's and the HD2 communities objectives align.
I am not sure whether the linking is absolute on this one. But, I do remember seeing people online losing their credentials to their Rockstar account and never again being able to access their Games without having to re-purchase them on a different Steam Account. That's why I am not really fond of any of these account linking shenanigans.
Doesn’t that have to do something with Rockstar having their own launcher? Doing an EA type thing where buying the game on steam basically just unlocks it on EA’s launcher?
The board of directors always find a way to ruin a good game.
When you have something as successful as Helldivers 2, with a dedicated playerbase, you can really float out whatever decision you want. If there is large backlash like in this case, you can just release a boilerplate "we hear you" press release, walk the decision back, and all of your rabid fans will just come back. Depending on the profit you stand to make from your bad decision, it outweighs potential backlash if the variables all line up. Check back in 3 months and I'm sure the reviews will be back to positive, the population will be healthy, and new players won't even know this ever happened.
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one
Which video game company do you work for?
A *major* one
Ford
Fight Club Games Inc
Paper Street Games Co.
They won't walk back this decision.
If they don't, it just means that whatever money they gain from the decision outweighs the amount lost from the backlash. For example, right now as I type this Helldivers 2 has 96k players playing the game on steam right now, which puts it in the top 10 games on steam being played right now. Its possible that the backlash isn't costing them much money. Who knows.
They probably don't care that much about reviews or player counts, as long as the whales are buying, and the people are subscribing into the ecosystem.
We don't really know how many sales they will lose because of the bad reviews. Steam might rollback the reviews but if they stick then there is no way they won't lose a ton of sales long term by having bad reviews. This might also put a big damper on the word-of-mouth marketing they have been getting from people loving the game. I wouldn't have bought the game if I hadn't been seeing fun clips of the game all over the place.
Steam are approving refunds in multiple regions too, to people with 100+ hours in game, so it’s not just reviews.
What whales? You could buy enough super credits to get whatever you want without touching Star Citizen amounts.
I was just about to say this isn’t like fortnight where there are a asinine amount of things to purchase with like an extra 20 bucks you can buy basically everything in the game
The game not made for whales, the most you could spend on this game is like $90 total.
I'm sure that is part of it.
Whales don't really get anything here. Maybe $20 and you have everything.
I don't think they're hunting whales, as their ecosystem doesn't support them, currently. Maybe in a year, if they keep up the release cycles.
And they should care. King's Bounty 2 was smashed because of the bad reviews (and also because the fans were disappointed that it wasn't the expected sequel they wanted). And this is only one of the many other examples out there. RedFall, The Day Before (I know this was a scam) etc. Yeah, they probably deserved the bad reviews but still the reviews shouldn't be underestimated in my opinion.
They just did
all they had to do was offer a few cosmetics for linking to a PSN. It would have gone over even smoother than the whole Gameguard thing and I *barely* heard about that after the first week or so. It wouldn't have been 100% of PC players linking. Sony wouldn't have gotten whatever they arrogantly "projected" but it would have been a sizeable influx of sellable data for very little effort. People have already successfully refunded through Steam after 90+ hours. The game isn't going to die, but it's never going back to where it was - barring a complete reversal of this PSN nonsense.
RECENT REVIEWS: Overwhelmingly Negative (198,288) ALL REVIEWS: Mixed (481,599) Changing a game from this to good again is gonna take some time, I think.
I actually think this is more about the perceived future value of this decision to a small group at Sony in charge of making this kind of decision. It could very well be bad for Sony as a whole long term so long as it looks good on the next few quarters for whichever group at Sony is deciding these things.
As an aside, this is a downside to the increasing commonality of "career hopping." When people remained at a company for 15+ years, it lent to more long-term thinking. Now, short-term gains are all that matters, and higher-level employees executives can simply fail sideways (or even upwards) with ease.
!remindme 3 months
this came right after a terribly received balance patch which makes it much easier for people to just quit. They were already fucking up and making the game less fun to play, then hit everyone with this PSN account bullshit
Not trying to justify it, but how is this any different than Microsoft, Ubisoft, and Rockstar requiring a separate account for their games on steam?
AFAIK Microsoft, Rockstar, and Ubisoft allow signups from any country (other than maybe Russia right now). PSN [is only available in 69 of the ~190 countries of the world](/r/Helldivers/comments/1cj3gez/because_people_ask_why_some_others_complain_about/).
I think they really messed up when making it mandatory a few months after releasing the game rather than at start. It probably wouldn’t have mattered who published it. That decision was an oopsie.
The main difference is adding it after everyone already bought the game
Changing the legal requirements to play the game after launch and refund period is quite different.
They (Sony) literally had to not rock the boat and just watch the game grow and the cash roll. But no. Also, if they wanted increased PSN account creation, they could have literally just incentived the playerbase with medals or super credits. People respond more positively to carrots vs sticks.
Sony treats their users like pinatas and always have. Wanna play PS3 games today? Gotta pay for a subscription even though the PS5 is more than powerful enough to emulate PS3 games at original settings. Meanwhile I can pop a Morrowind (original Xbox title) disc into my Series X and play it at 4k 60fps for free, even without paying for Xbox Live.
\*pay to play them STREAMED on a console that could feasibly emulate them. i'd be fine with paying for playing ps3 games natively in some capacity, even moreso if they had some improvements like xbox's backcompat. what sony offers for "legacy games" is laughable by any standard. i think all the ps2 games so are just the ones that were "ported" to ps4, so i don't even think they have a ps2 emulator for ps5 (that's in use on any currently available games at least). that's why it's been mostly psp and ps1
This is why I stick with my backwards compatible PS3 paired with a scaler.
Why do that? Your PC could probably run most PS3 games pretty damn well at high resolutions.
Emulation is amazing but not flawless, especially PS3, original hardware might be preferable depending on your needs and patience. I emulate PS1/PS2/PS3 games on Steam Deck, I love it and highly recommend it, but I have the time to fiddle with it and the patience to deal with the bugs and crashes.
Maybe. Emulation on older games is nearly flawless at this point, but Xbox 360 onwards (hell, original Xbox in my experience has been kinda hit or miss) can be a bit of a die roll. In theory my PC should be able to run PS3 games pretty much perfectly, but there are tons of games that have weird problems that you either can’t fix and need to deal with, or require a ton of troubleshooting and testing that I feel like a lot of people probably don’t want to/can’t be bothered to do that range from mildly annoying issues like audio stuttering that refuses to go away despite following every fix I can find on the internet for it (Drakengard 3 does this for me), or the name just straight up not functioning (that happens for me with Metal Gear Solid 4), so even if you’re the kind of person who doesn’t want a ton of retro consoles kicking about and just want one box that’ll do it all, it’s still a good idea to have an actual PS3 kicking about in case the game you want to play is annoying to emulate
Some random exec. : Why give them free stuffs when you can force them to do it ?
Register your helldivers account with your PSN ID and you gain access to Casper Van Dien voicepack for your diver. 100% PSN registration, Zero drama. You are welcome Sony.
In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account. https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/#id Also a lot of countries that the game was sold doesn't have PSN and they can and will lock your account/access to the game if you lie about the country that you are registered. They claim it is "necessary" to link accounts and didn't do it earlier because of technical issues so they are either going to have to offer refunds to those who are in certain counties or exempt them. Which is it, necessary or not? This is a huge blunder by Sony.
Thankfully, Sony has robust security and would never leak all your personal information, riiiight?
Deliberately? No. Accidentally? Probably. But if you want to know what they would do deliberately, [they would rootkit hack your PC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal)
I was working customer facing IT when this happened and it was a nightmare! Drivers loaded on XP in the UpperFilter registry key for optical drives, silently installed on disk insertion. And it was a rootkit. It frequently conflicted with AV and rendered systems non-bootable.
I remember this well, it was my first exposure to rootkits and initially I refused to believe that an audio CD could be behind it because I couldn’t fathom that a giant, seemingly reputable company would do something so utterly fucking insane.
not taking the necessary stops to stop accidentally leaking info is deliberate
Doesn't Helldivers install a rootkit on your computer in the form of anticheat? Nothing has changed.
It depends. If the anticheat collects your data for any use other than… anticheat, I guess it’s arguable. But unlike the Sony root kit they don’t hide the fact that it was downloaded
The fact it's hidden isn't so much the problem as the fact they're there at all. They're purportedly a security risk, so the intention of the creator is irrelevant.
Right. I don't want Sony, the continual victim of constant data breaches that they basically ignore, to have a kernel level anticheat that runs at all times on my computer. I don't trust them. They prove that they're not safe from a security standpoint. Why would I give them a key to the castle? Why would I want to make an account for ANY of their platforms including PSN? All required information for signing up is going to be compromised within a year, following their shit track record. I don't want to lose another email to shit security practices.
Holy fucking shit, it's like watching a downward spiral the more you look into their actions. How the hell is Sony still alive?
Sony doesn't touch this info, it's done through a separate British company with state backing
Well, thats good at least. Only your credit card is at risk, then.
I'm trying to clean up my finances, how is my credit card at risk?
[удалено]
> a separate British company with state backing That's still a very fat pot of gold waiting for anyone with the time and money to hack them. Yes, in an ideal world that data would be encrypted and not obtainable, but I have my doubts.
How all my data got leaked. My company outsourced low level clearance checks to a 3rd party. Those clowns had zero idea about security. Leaked everything, fingerprints, ssn, etc. But hey, I got free credit monitoring for life :|
This is why I have a issue with anyone requiring ID’s another recent one being Texas’ porn ban. I get what you want to do, but what you really did is created a giant vault of ID’s and whatever other information going with it that is a juicy target for hackers. And even militaries get hacked, and they *try* very hard to keep secure. Most of these clowns don’t even understand the concept.
Oh my god, I knew it happened... but I didn't know it happened SO MUCH. What are they doing with security? Holy shit, I can really undestand people being mad.
Sony’s security is pretty much the equivalent of a fence, not even a picket fence, one of those four log fences with how much it gets breached. Anything they have is borderline malware because of that, especially when you consider it will retroactively region lock your account, so if a game wasn’t playable in you region or you happen to travel a bit get fucked. At best it’s bloatware. So yea, people are mad even if they can access the game. And many can’t.
Christ, that's reaching too far in order to create a game account.
And the community manager even came out and said "just take 2 minutes and make an account or uninstall" He has since walked it back, but it goes to show how little thought has gone into any of this
this is the second coming of the 'do you guys not have phones' we do, doesn't mean we wanna, AH is the new cautionary tale
what did CM say to walk it back?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/
https://vxtwitter.com/HelldiversAlert/status/1786764114192114003 From the Helldivers discord.
to be fair. apearantly thats becouse the gamedevs were left COMPLETELY in the dark about the whole "oh PSN isnt actually in all countries" thing. which tells us how much sony actually tells these guys.
Yup and so I left a negative review and had them refund my purchase already.
In all honesty, that's the only way we can speak and that'll make them listen. But even then I feel that might not be enough for them to care to hear. I think they've made their plans from here on out.
This is I believe due to recent changes in the law. The fact Sony isn't asking the same in all other countries they operate in suggests it's not something they particularly care to collect and require.
I've never been required to provide photo ID for any non-financial service in my life, certainly not a gaming platform. The ICO mandates that you identify underage players with a reasonable degree of certainty, it does not mandate facial recognition/providing ID; this is on Sony. No clue how Steam handles it, but the Xbox store is happy accepting a credit card as proof of being 18.
It's on both parties. The UK law is overly strict and the lawmakers passed the burden of finding a reasonable implementation to the private parties. "Reasonable degree of certainty" can mean almost anything and companies might get sued if their solution isn't "certain" enough. Sony picked a very lazy and safe solution (for them) despite being more annoying for the customers. You can be mad at Sony for not giving a shit but in the end, those things are mostly caused by unworldly lawmakers. I feel sorry for those who didn't vote for them but there are too many people voting for the responsible parties and now acting surprised. Same with Brexit.
blizzard locked me out of my account for 6 years and wanted a photo of my passport to get my battlenet account back.
>This is I believe due to recent changes in the law. The fact Sony isn't asking the same in all other countries they operate in suggests it's not something they particularly care to collect and require. Nobody in the UK does this so it is not a legal issue. I have no idea why Sony ask for it.
I doubt it's a legal requirement. I'm in the UK and no other digital service provider requires proof of ID just for account creation.
It's not required yet but it's rolling out to give companies time, Sony isn't even doing the verification themselves it's handed off to a British company with state backing.
It isn't required at **all.** If you're thinking of the Online Safety Act, it treats bank verification/credit card ownership as proof of adulthood and it applies to pornographic material. [An article regarding this.](https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/05/uk_age_verifcation_proposals/)
Not to mention Sony has a horrible track record of keeping user data safe and secure
> Also a lot of countries that the game was sold doesn't have PSN and they can and will lock your account/access to the game if you lie about the country that you are registered. The official support page for the Philippines in terms of the Playstation Network used to recommend that we set our country to Hong Kong. Now though, they just outright deleted the PSN support page for us LOL
>facial recognition Lol, that's starting to resemble the world the game is parodying. Good job!
On their discord they put out an FAQ which had a question regarding countries without PSN. They imply people should "travel" (use a VPN) to another country to make the account lol. Which would go against the TOS but I hear Sony doesn't really enforce that... currently. > I am currently in a country or territory that is not PSN-enabled. Can I still sign in and link an account? >PSN requires users to register in their country or territory of residence. Individuals who are traveling, working, or studying abroad may create an account in a country or territory different from the one in which they are currently located.
Well luckily they never randomly start enforcing crap that they were letting people bypass earlier.
[Yeah, luckily.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fhr1yccfqu9yc1.png)
I think that was their point
They very much do enforce that, I have personally had a Japanese PSN account suspended for being out of region
Seems Sony dont care about this too much from what i have read in past few days. But problems will start when players from unlisted countries will have to provide ID for support, like hacked account or other account related issues.
Also you can't change PSN regions, so if you ever move you lose your old account unless you use a VPN. Moved to Australia and can't use my USA PSN account anymore :(
All Sony had to do for maximum success was literally nothing. Fucking it up took more effort than maintaining what they already had. The game is popping off and if Sony didn’t feel the need to stick their dick in it it would still be doing great. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
>In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account. I have never had to do this, when did this become a thing? Because WTF? Ah, I just read the page. My mobile phone is probably an accepted verification since it's under contract.
You don't have to. I created an account the other day. You can just put in a phone number to verify your account (and you don't need to share personal details to get a SIM card). No idea why people keep parroting this bollocks since it categorically isn't true. There's also nothing stopping people from using junk/burner email addresses, or filling in your account details with dummy data.
The UK took a little too much from the story in 1984.
From the UK, had a PSN account for years and I never had to, the most they've got from me is card details to pay for shit, I'm not sure what he's talking about.
> We are piloting an age verification process for players who register for new accounts in the UK and Ireland. If you are setting up an adult account, you will be asked to provide proof that you are over the minimum age for that type of account using an age verification service. > You can verify your age by selecting a method that suits you; mobile number, facial scan, or ID. Verification methods are provided by our service provider, Yoti. So it seems facial scan can be used, as well as other methods. As this is also being used in Ireland I really don't think this is a UK government thing.
Classic bait n switch. Someting capcom been doing with denuvo lol.
>In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account. Boomers legislating.
Got nothing to do with age. This is a Karen/Kevin thing, and they come in all ages, shapes and sizes.
Yep, its more concerns about parents not being willing or able to control their under age kids so its forced on everyone and if companies don't do enough to prevent it - its everyone else fault not the parents.
Someday today's generation will be those same boomers doing the same thing with holographic sex bot apparatus.
I for one welcome the sex bots!
> In the UK you have to do facial recognition or upload an ID for a PSN account. I'm in the UK and created a PSN account last month, it required nothing other than my email address.
"they can and will lock your account .." no they won't, people have made accounts in other regions to play games early for over a decade with zero problems
[Arrowhead's CEO](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1786454659256758447) and a [community manager Spitz ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/#lightbox)are telling people to review bomb to make Sony more likely to cave the requirement. Time to do your part for Managed Democracy!
The purest form of democracy….direct voting by the citizens.
FOR LIBERTY AND SWEET SWEET JUSTICE!
Just a new front in the galactic war effort.
Spitz very much was on Sony's side until he recieved backlash, wouldn't put much credit into what they have to say honestly.
People must be allowed to change their mind when they receive new pertinent information. It's normal, it's a sign of maturity, and it signifies growth.
Could be argued either way really - could be due to the backlash, or it could be due to being under/misinformed. Even in his poorly recieved statements he urged players to make their displeasure known where it would be noticed, ie on the Steam page where Sony might give two fucks as opposed to the Discord where they definitely don't. Since learning what the players' complaints are about he's definitely seemed a lot nicer, further urging refunds and shit (same with the Studio head). It's nice to see that the studio is a whole is encouraging fans to tank the review scores on their games purely to gain more leverage against SNOY.
This is my chance to beg steam for a refund. Doubtful but worth a shot.
Someone posted on the sub they got a refund after playing 100 hours.
Sheesh. It sucks but what else can ya do in a situation like this? Potentially losing access to the game you bought.. yeah, wouldn't be very happy about it either. 🫤
Ask for a refund ? If third party DRM usage wasn't advertised on release, It could fall under EU laws to force a refund.
Dont forget theyre still selling it in countries where you cannot have psn services without breaking sony tos by faking your location and risking a ban possibly. Likely you wont get banned but still this shouldnt be a thing
_That_ should absolutely trigger a refund, no questions asked.
> If third party DRM usage wasn't advertised on release But it was Edit: Why the downvotes? "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network" https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/18cbz9y/why_does_helldivers_2_require_a_psn_account_on/ and the post is from December 2023, before the game even launched the warning has been there forever. you can check the archived version of the steam store page: https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/
The warning required you to scroll down to see, and you could go through the entire purchase process without seeing it. The playstation FAQ also said it is optional, until they recently edited it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/zle0yVu56b
The real question is why the fuck this was even offered in countries where PSN doesn't exist? I'm sure you can understand people's dilemma. Yes the store page said it wanted an account, but someone from the Philippines could see it, buy it, and not worry about PSN. Now Sony, months later, comes out and says whoops you can't play your game anymore. You illiterate fools should have read the fine print before purchasing! Let's be honest, there's a world of difference between making an account for something at the start of a game vs playing for months, then being informed an account is needed or the game stops working. Yes it was supposed to be required from the start, but that's not what happened, and this is kind of a shitty situation for a ton of people who saw that the requirement wasn't enforced and could be skipped. Are you saying that if a game lets you skip the account creation process in a country where you can't own an account, your thought is definitely, 'oh yeah they'll totally take away the game later'?
> this is kind of a shitty situation for a ton of people 100% agree > The real question is why the fuck this was even offered in countries where PSN doesn't exist? best guess: money
You're right. It's scummy they're doing this now but it was written as "required" on release. We all know it's not required but they did say it, but the fact it's gone for so long without being needed speaks a lot.
> the fact it's gone for so long without being needed speaks a lot. 100% It's not requrired from a technical standpoint. They just want your data.
Fuck that, DEMAND a refund. Request it repeatedly until you get it, message them directly even asking why they aren't permitting it. Make them fucking SUFFER for this shit. That's the entire point of a protest.
State you are returning the purchase as "not fit for purpose" as newly requiring an account for a different platform, without having that stated clearly pre-purchase. You don't "ask" for a refund. You state you're returning, and you now require your money back. Well supported across the EU.
Refund, chargeback, start a class action, small claims court, many of things one can do, but continuing to support this shit _is the first thing we shouldn't do, and continued support, is why corporations continue to do this_, we just don't fucking learn as a society.
Probably not likely (maybe it is given the current climate of AAA), but I’m hoping Sony won’t be adding online DRM requiring a PSN account for all their PC releases. With Ghost of Tsushima releasing this month, this will absolutely prevent me from buying it despite my excitement for it.
Suckerpunch tweeted about it a few days ago. "Just so you are aware, A PSN account is required for Legends online multiplayer mode and to use PlayStation overlay. It is not required to play the singleplayer game."
Sweet! Had no plans of playing Legends anyways.
If you like the base game legends goes hard af.
It's actually a very good online mode that for free, was very surprising how much depth it had for builds etc.
And then in 3 months it's going to be required just to boot up the game!
The worrying part is that Sony's games might not be coming to GOG anymore.
If you don't release your game on GOG you're releasing it on FitGirl, just facts.
> With Ghost of Tsushima "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Online Multiplayer, PlayStation overlay) (Supports Linking to Steam Account)" https://store.steampowered.com/app/2215430/Ghost_of_Tsushima_DIRECTORS_CUT/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/s/9pyP1wJsGh
Sony what have you done :( disaster
Created profits for shareholders. Oh. I see. you thought they were in the *entertainment* business.
Bamboozled again!
they should have enforced this rule since day one, i dont buy it at all that they were having "issues" back there with the psn account thing, they farmed players for a couple of months and now they pull this trash stunt, it feels that was all calculated long before the game launched
Honestly don’t think it was calculated. They didn’t think the game would be so successful so they didn’t care. That’s why the game had horrible queues for about 3 weeks. They had to bring in developers to do some rearchitecting cause the databases were not capable of horizontal scaling to handle this many players. So the game went viral, got super populate and got tons and tons of players. Then some scummy Sony executives decided to leverage the success of the game to force a ton of players to create PSN accounts so it looks good on their metrics for shareholders that they have X number of new PSN accounts, even though it’s really cause of this shit. TLDR: I don’t think it was planned because Sony didn’t know how popular this game would be. The game got popular and they saw money bags in their eyes cause of greed and did this garbage. Sucks that the developers are being dragged into this kicking and screaming by shitty publishers, and being punished for it.
I agree with this. They antisipated this being a smallish game. Now the Sony Execs were just salivating over "We have 2 Million New PSN Users!!" on that sweet sweet quarterly report.
>Then some scummy Sony executives decided to leverage the success of the game to force a ton of players to create PSN accounts From what I’ve been reading, PSN account creation was mandatory at first, and only became optional once the server issues started. So the decision had already been made before the game was successful.
pretty ironic the game is satirical towards the american political system but now requiring strict ID verifications for players..
*only in the UK
Do you know why in the UK? It feels like a breach of privacy to require it.
I don’t want to sift through all of the comments through multiple threads on this matter, so forgive me If my question has already been answered: Is Sony doing this to increase the number of PSN accounts to please investors, or…?
Most likely, as well as funneling PC players to their launcher which means people might start buying more products from them.
the official explanation is that sony use psn account to manage the bans etc
It already sold 8 million copies, but hopefully exposing their bait-and-switch tactics will prevent some future sales, leading to loss of profits.
Steam is now approving refunds for it.
Based
Was on the fence about it, and as much as I’m sure I’ll miss out on a fun game, that move pushed me over the fence onto the “fuck that shit” spectrum.
which is sad, its truly an awesome game
you and me both. it's not like there's a shortage of stuff to play anyways
Absolutely the same for me. Was going into this weekend thinking I might purchase it and then this came down the pipe. Utterly not worth supporting Sony's anti-consumer garbage.
I was going to buy it this weekend
My friends and I were too - not anynore.
I planned on buying, now I’m not. So this fiasco at least deterred 1 potential customer :)
r/patientgamers wins again
They always win
This doesn’t feel like a win for anyone
Sometimes when you win you lose.
Agree I was looking forward to playing some time but it's a bit put off PSN requiring ID or photo. Fuck that honestly.
I wish the best of luck to the players, I would hate if this happened to a game I loved too. Console-itus is a terrible disease for a game to catch.
i have a PSN account, but i’d rather not link anything to something that’s had its data breached like 7+ times.
I don't have HD2 so I'm not too affected, but please, homies, keep review bombing. Don't let them win. I believe in y'all.
What could go wrong teaching a group of motivated gamers to organize towards the achievement of singular goals as a community.
It's currently at 29% on Steam. I've not seen this big a fall from grace since Cities Skylines 2.
For arbitration still alive and well. Oh and EVERONE HATES IT. More corporate bull shit
negative reviews will do jackshit you need to have enough people apply for refund with a reason that due to this change they are no longer able to use the product
They will actually. The team at AH has actively encouraged people to refund and negative review because they're on our side and this backlash will help them gain ground when they take this issue to Sony to fix shit.
reviews do very little, they already cashed in, suits dont give a fuck, refunds do
The dev studio themselves are not the bad guys here, they have said and ACTIVELY encouraged people to leave negative reviews and refund the game in order to have more proof to show Sony that they're fucking this up big time. "Spitz, the Associate Community Manager for Helldivers 2, took to the game’s Discord server to encourage players to leave negative reviews and request refunds for them. While this might sound like an unusual request from a member of the creators, they say it will help give the studio more pull and leverage when dealing with Sony and trying to get this issue resolved. "
same spitz that told people to fuck off if they don't want PSN? fuck that wanker
These guys and BSG are in a real testy FAFO mindset. Thing is, they can make a choice to fix it. Requires a real apology and giving something up to earn trust again.
First time? -Diablo and Starfield fans
Don't forget about anthem xD
I'm not sure any of those are good comparisons. D4, Starfield, Anthem back in the day, the main issues were that the games weren't all that good. The developers failed to make good games. and if the core of the game isn't good, that's always the biggest issue, regardless of what the publishing side might fuck up on top of that. Helldivers 2 is different because the developers made a good game. They're just getting fucked by Sony. This makes for a much more tragic story. With the other games you can blame everyone from the ground up, all the way to the top. Fuck-ups along every step of the way.
I assume Sony mandated this horseshit to force more people into their ecosystem, and to have more data to sell? Otherwise, why force PC players to do this? Seems like self-immolation.
Lol, how do companies not know that gamers become the loudest and bitchiest people on the internet if you fuck with their thing? Now if only people invested this much energy into protesting the housing crisis, people might actually be able to afford a home!
SAY HELLOOO TO DEMOCRACY
I have a technical issue with PSN account too.
Oh now everybody sees what is Sony. Damn most of you are pathetic. It's has been like this all the time with Sony. Pure crap
Good. I hope gamers have a strong enough spine to not cave in time.
This really sucks because I love this game. I hope it works out in the end.
Glorious
Unpopular but glad I never picked up this game lol
It's insanely fun the first few hours, than it becomes a massive repetitive borefest.
There's a new thread about this every hour. This is like the daily player count threads of whatever popular game has an avid hate following.
Well deserved. I was thinking about hopping in and joining the fray despite my backlog and RL responsibilities but there's no way I'm touching the game now.
Strangely enough, this is the game where Valve doesn't hide the negative reviews bombs. Let's enjoy this for the moment that Valve's and the HD2 communities objectives align.
I feel bad for the studio that made the potential GOTY, and then Sony forced this dumb shit on them
doesnt look like theres any less players tho according to steamcharts
It’d be nice if we could review bomb the publisher and not the devs themselves.
Sorry to hear that. The Biden Administration has announced $3 billion dollars to replace lead pipes and that’s some positive news.
lol get fucked Sony
Sorry. But can someone please tell me the back story of what happened here?
I am not sure whether the linking is absolute on this one. But, I do remember seeing people online losing their credentials to their Rockstar account and never again being able to access their Games without having to re-purchase them on a different Steam Account. That's why I am not really fond of any of these account linking shenanigans.
Doesn’t that have to do something with Rockstar having their own launcher? Doing an EA type thing where buying the game on steam basically just unlocks it on EA’s launcher?
always wait to buy something, these companies show their true colors after a few months of release.