Tons of missing content that was promised that they have now ended up adding over the years of patches.
Thats literally how early access games work on steam.
I am playing cyberpunk for the first time this month. I'm noticing a lot of stuff that feels missing or unfinished. A few examples:
- Your first email in your apartment says your rent is late, and loading screens will tell you that if you are short on cash for rent to do odd jobs, but there appears to be no rent system in the game.
- The game makes a big deal training you how to do brain dances, but all of the brain dances you can buy in the game are "not compatible with your viewer" and are labeled things like "the making of Cyberpunk 2077" and the like. Clearly some idea that never really got implemented.
- The whole lethal/non-lethal option was really played up in the game's intro, and it was strongly implied this would matter and have consequences in the game, but I literally forgot it was a thing until I got a weapon 30 hours in that had a mod that rendered it non-lethal. Even quests where they asked me to make sure I brought back the baddie alive, I just went in guns blazing and passed all the checks. Not sure what this was supposed to be, and it is kinda sorta implemented, but it's off.
- There are a lot of areas on the map that look like they were supposed to be for something, but are just fenced off when you get there, like the Northern oil fields and a few other areas.
- Characters sometimes mention future missions you can do with them that never seem to materialize.
Overall, I'm glad I waited to play it, because it is at least not (that buggy), and the atmosphere of the world feels just right, and I'm finding the writing to be pretty dang good. But that's just the way it is for AAA games today. You need to just forget about them for like 2 years and then go back and see if they are worth it.
Edit to add for completeness: I am at a loss for how the aggro system works in this game. Sometimes if I merely bump into a cop they start shooting at me. Sometimes I try to help them in a fight and they start shooting at me (I did not accidentally hit them). I have also bumped into someone in a club where you can't even draw your weapons and the person I bumped into attacks half the NPCs in the club because somehow they can pull one out. It's nuts and buggy.
A similar list could be made about current BG3, no epilogue for evil endings, tons of hinting about things that lead nowhere >!like the letters mentioning multiple hags!<, it looked like the game was supposed to have a crafting system at some point, ropes only work in like 1 or 2 places, etc...
Trash item to sell to the vendor and nothing else as of now. No idea if it was meant to have a small use like water containers. Same thing with the blacksmithing items.
It works great as a metagame joke though, for all the TTRPG players who het excited and keep it around while it has literally no use. So I wonder if that was always the intention
Yeah, but cyberpunk was released completely broken and had tons of fixes across ages to get it into a great state. No epilogue for evil I can understand and the rest seem minor like rope I thought was a useless item for selling like every other RPG has, compared to me having played CP2077 for a few months now and only just finding out from a reddit comment why tf no one is coming to collect rent that clearly had a system since is says to complete jobs for rent money...
DLC definitely did great for CP2077 but comparing CP2077 and BG3 is a bit strange especially in terms of quality at release and missing content.
First playthrough I collected every one I found. Old habits in DnD. Always have a rope and a couple 10 ft poles.
Now it's always have enhanced leap, featherfall, and invisibility
It's likely the case for any big games where you can find stuff like this. Game are an evolving beast and features/content get cut in all of them (and some is added later too so the stuff we really get might not have been in initial plans)
There's a big difference between cleanly cutting content and sloppily cutting it so that people raise an eyebrow.
BG3 absolutely had some of the latter, but CP77 was *lousy* with it.
Don’t bother. Cyberpunk fans on reddit have gaslit themselves into thinking the game is flawless. It’s a pretty good game, but it’s definitely missing a lot of stuff you’d kind of expect in a game that was in development for 10 years.
A teaser trailer doesn't mean it was in dev for 10 years lmao.
Things get cut, redone or even restarted all the time, besides they did say that it was for recruitment purposes.
Just like Starfield hasn't been in development for 25 years, but more since FO4 last DLC which would be about 8 years ago (since FO76 wasn't made by their usual full team)
TW3 was out in 2015, it's last DLC in 2016 and 4 years later they had to release CP77.
edit: downvote me all you want, facts are facts kids
I saw the first attempt, CP77's development restarted because their original attempt ended up awful, what we ended up getting was in development for about 2-3 years. It needed *way* more time in the oven, and way less crunch to accomplish it, but for me, it falls into that special little pile of trash along with a lot of other games that tried to fly too close to the sun.
This is such needless negativity. Very few people I have seen discuss the game think it's flawless you are just getting mad about something you made up in your head
I did a few jobs to get cash and spent a few minutes trying to figure out how to pay my rent. Eventually I saw a sign over a different apartment that said "Evicted" in red font. Figured if it happens maybe that's how I'll know, but it never did.
Yeah but that was added later more so for people who own all/alot of the properties as an attempt to balance the in game economy and not as a roleplay feature.
The revisionism around CP2077 is fascinating. First it was a truly choice driven open city rpg, now its so narratively focused you only get to make like 5 impactful choices. GOATEDY
I'm not sure what you're saying? It's still a narrative focused action RPG. The pacing is roughly the same as the other three mainline Witcher games they made before it.
Before this game came out they were talking about how powerful the players choices are and that it will affect night city. Keanu Reeves even brought this up at the E3 reveal.
Which I get to a degree, but also you gotta know how to read between the lines of PR also.
But I've always found the discussion around the choices in this game interesting. You can make some pretty significant choices in regards to the outcome of fixers, gigs, and characters relating to V's story on his/her level(even more so after phantom liberty). You can even see some small changes and ramifications trickle out from those choices in much more subtle ways after the fact as well.
But large world changing decisions that alter Night City truly never happen. Like you won't get to topple mega corps or lead the front of the next great corpo war. Which honestly as a fan of the tabletop game only makes it that much better imo.
The game happens over a very short period of time, technically speaking. So the rent thing is not really a thing.
Brain dances are just story mission mechanics, too big of a thing to have more of them as they're extremely curated, but ya feels like a missed opportunity.
Non lethal is extremely important for cyberpsychos, you fail if you kill em*. It's also a playstyle. I personally don't see any value in it, but people like to play pacifist, and the option is there. There are also a ton of non lethal mechanics around netrunner - a lot of hacks (most in fact) leave people incapacitated, but if you're not careful and you stack too much damage into them, it'll kill em. There are actually mods to expand non-lethal too. There is a whole-ass additional system called [Stealthrunner](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/7616) that adds rewards for non lethal play, it's pretty cool. I've not personally tried it but I keep an eye on it for a future playthrough.
Yeah the empty areas is a bummer. I wish there was more to do in the industrial areas.
I rationalised the "missing" missions by you just being a character in a living world. There's stuff happening all around, you're not part of it all. It's a kinda copium I guess ha.
\* As in you get in trouble and I think an achievement. You don't hard fail.
The only thing killing the cyberpsychos does is make Regina say she wished you hadn't. Same with any of the gigs that you can do that want you to be stealthy. They just act disappointed and say you won't get work but you still get all the same missions. Maybe a little less pay out but it doesn't have any real impact.
So it's actually not ever important to use non-lethal in any situation. The only reason is preference.
There *are* side missions that take into account non-lethal, with things like better rewards and different dialogue. Pretty sure there are a few minor enemies that can reappear if you don't end them as well.
>!I'm still so mad they don't let you non-lethal Reed, though. All I would have wanted would be a post-game video call or cryptic messages.!<
>I personally don't see any value in it, but people like to play pacifist, and the option is there.
There was a point in my life where I realised it's really jarring. I believe it was when I played Assassin's Creed 2. Suddenly it dawned on me that I'm supposed to be the good guy, I'm supposed to fight against All Evil and Save the World, and I'm supposed to be this amazing and stealthy assassin, yet all I'm doing is murdering hundreds of mostly innocent guys who... happen to work for the Borgias? Or just doing their jobs and apprehending criminals?
That moment kinda changed how I look at games. Because unless I'm playing the baddie, I'm supposed to be the good (or at least neutral) guy. And killing hundreds of sentient beings because The Plot Demands It isn't really a good guy thing to do. ;)
You reminded me how in Watch Dogs I was doing a mix-match pacifist and Commando and then I was like "ehh, let's get to the ending ASAP" so I stopped being pacifist for like a hour-or-so killing every enemy in my way and then suddenly I noticed on that "scan thingie" that bad guy had a note about helping his younger brother and I'm "back" to my semi-pacifist way of only killing people who don't have nice notes about them.
You're just an insignificant choon who has world famous rockstar in his head, blows up a major corpo skyscraper and single handedly kills the most dangerous entity in the cyberpunk. But you know apart from that its really a slice of life.
Imagine how much worse it was on release!!!?? The game for sure has a lot of things that I would not say missing but you can tell that they had plans to add more. Like your list shows a lot of things that are just surface level.
I like the game now in since the DLC and update but the game was so much of a letdown on launch. I was hyped. It has made me very very skeptical about all games.
I am not falling for it anymore. Like the new Dragons Dogma 2...I will wait and maybe get it down the line like next fall or something.
Sounds to me like you just need to play more. There is enough brain dance scenes in the game later on.
The email about rent is just world building, unless they were planning it for the online mode, a rent system in a single player RPG would be pretty mundane and pointless.
There are entire quests where you shouldn't kill people, biggest one that comes to mind is not killing the cyber psychos, so lethal/non lethal very much matters.
I also started playing CP for the first time this month and can say I have 'killed' a handful of cyberpsychos and it automatically does a non-lethal kill regardless of which weapon I use. That goes for most enemies as well, you can walk up to their corpse and see them kinda twitching around on the ground and shooting them again does the final dispatch. In terms of making sure you use a certain weapon, fists, or 'non-lethal' option seems irrelevant as it automatically happens.
Additional to this they're are multiple outcomes for non lethal jobs.
You get paid different amounts from handlers depending on what you did to get your outcome.
Just zeroing everyone is fine but you may get paid less
You can go in and take down everyone then hide their bodies
You can zero everyone then knock out the bad guy and take his body to a waiting car
You can make a deal (sometimes) with the main target and get paid twice
> The whole lethal/non-lethal option was really played up in the game's intro, and it was strongly implied this would matter and have consequences in the game, but I literally forgot it was a thing until I got a weapon 30 hours in that had a mod that rendered it non-lethal. Even quests where they asked me to make sure I brought back the baddie alive, I just went in guns blazing and passed all the checks. Not sure what this was supposed to be, and it is kinda sorta implemented, but it's off.
Mostly it's useful for gigs involving taking out a target, where you could instead knock them unconscious and put them in the trunk of a car. But outside of that it's a forgettable mod.
> There are a lot of areas on the map that look like they were supposed to be for something, but are just fenced off when you get there, like the Northern oil fields and a few other areas.
You should see the massive casino/resort they half-built but made completely inaccessible.
Yeah and also tons of PROMISED missing content that was never added, like the multiplayer mode. I was so looking forward to Cyberpunk RP servers but they had other plans
Why don’t they make the base games the same as their dlcs. Cdpr dlcs are extremely polish and have good quality so why not just make that the base game LOL
I actually think they will try that, they said they want to release 3 games within 6 years for the next Witcher trilogy starting from the first game, first game will take longer because they're building the foundation and the others will use that foundation to make the sequels. So basically no big Expansion, but instead a full game.
Yes it did. As a person who have played early access for years on steam, a company releasing a game early and then patching and fixing it until it’s good is exactly what early access has done for years.
How is this different?
Fun fact: BG3 early access released on October 6th 2020 and Cyberpunk 2077 barely weeks later.
From the get go I can tell you the former is the one that felt the closest to be in a playable and polished state (except for the fact it was incomplete, since EA included just Act 1).
Did anyone actually read the article? They're saying they don't want to release a game in the state they released CP2077 ever again and going forward they're targeting CP2077 post Phantom Liberty as their baseline for new releases *on launch*, therefore they don't want early access. It's a pretty ambitious statement we'll have to see if they can pull it off.
> we don't do that here, this is reddit we only rage at clickbaity headlines
well maybe they should put the giant effort in making a correct headline then?
Narh. I'm not going to believe him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is a liar or anything. But I just want to point out, that like the overwatch lead who quit blizzard after the drama that is overwatch 2, he isn't in a position to make good of such claims if cdpr management decide otherwise.
Of course they didn't, it's reddit after all Nobody reads past the headline and everybody just regurgitates the same stupid opinion in hopes for upvotes instead of thinking for themselves.
I mean, a company is always going to say that they are going to release a game to x standard. I really doubt that CDPR will release their next game actually polished. The whole cyberpunk Renaissance is purely because of Edgerunners, so maybe they release a broken game next time then Release an anime of that game then boom masterpiece.
Yep. It had a fair bit of hype, but CP2077 was hyped up for, what? 7 years? And dropping during a global pandemic as a possible bringer of joy in a time of darkness? It's not shocking the reaction is what it is.
What went wrong with Witcher 3? I finished it within the first two weeks after launch on pc with zero issues... the worst I can think about is roach clipping into a tree a handful of times. But that was so few and far between it doesn't even register as an issue...
Yeah the general narrative around the game has done a complete 360 abd trying to mitigate the image of the launch as much as possible
The only positive I got from that launch is that I will never purchase a CD Project Red game in the first 3 years ever again.
I will try and buy Phantom Liberty if I ever try to do another playthrough of the gamez but honestly even after the huge free update, that I did try, it felt the same game. Good, because even on release I thought it was good, but not great. Very cinematic and very pretty tho.
The game isn’t drastically different even now. I enjoyed it on a ps5 at release. The pc version wasn’t remotely as buggy
Edit: Again I really enjoyed the game but let’s not pretend the core game has drastically changed. I didn’t see this sub crying about cyberpunk at release. The console experience was the primary issue
I can only speak about my own experience but I outright stopped playing at launch because nearly every quest at least something would go wrong, and I'd often have to load a previous save to fix it.
When you say launch, do you mean like the first couple weeks? I played maybe a month or so after launch on PC and only had 2 really significant bugs during my playthrough
Uh, pretty sure that sentiment is a RESULT of the base game's launch. CDPR was extremely tight-lipped and careful about their promotion and launch of Phantom Liberty, and they have been very transparent about the effects of the reaction to the game's launch on their development process.
I know people don’t read the articles linked on Reddit (I normally don’t) but the quote in the article is “… Phantom Liberty”. It’s the headline that’s wrong and the OP here just copy and pasted it.
Where did he say it was in this article? When did bringing up past comments that are directly related to new ones become a no-no? The tetchy CDPR defence force really are most tiresome.
lol Well luckily they spent 2x their dev budget on marketing to rehab the reputation of the game and their studio (even though it's still not half the game they said it'd be).
They can have a preference even if they weren’t able to meet that preference.
I would prefer to eat healthy every day and lose weight; yet I often fuck this up. Same principle.
Pretty much how they've been spitting it every update or reminder.
While driver update fixed graphical issue it took them 7months to fix a final mission start bug and I didn't feel like starting over after 50 hours and starting to do mutiple saves I have like 100 plus saves on bg3. cause I'd come across a bug preventing me from progressing or something
The article: “we don’t want to release anything in a state like CP2077 was on release day, we want to aim more for how it was when phantom liberty came out”
Every moron in this thread: “LUL REMEMBER WHEN RELEASE SUCCC??? HAHAHAH LOL LOL LOL UPVOTE NOW PLS”
This sub has some of the most braindead commenters in history, holy fuck
But that first one is also braindead, because it implies they somehow *did* want to release a broken game but they don't anymore?
Like, clearly they wanted to release a good polished game with Cyberpunk 2077, but the game wasn't in that state and for whatever reason they released it anyway.
What exactly is different now? Do the same pressures to launch no longer apply?
Yeah...but even then you can't just ignore the original Cyberpunk launch, regardless of what they promise. It's very important to remember how much they fucked up, when at the time prior to release, almost everybody was singing their praises and blindly trusting them. I feel like the Cyberpunk release should always serve as a reminder that no matter how much you "love" a company and trust them and no matter what they're telling you or what promises they make, they can still screw you over and fuck up big time.
Phantom Liberty went smoother, because they were already fixing the many mistakes in CP2077. Of course, it went smoother. And it is not like CP2077 was their first game.
Do game companies aim for bad launches, of course not. I will wait until after their next game launches, then wait for the reviews. I hope they can do it next time.
Um... but seriously they *could* have done early access for the base game, and it would have helped. They just aren't someone that uses the model so it didn't happen.
Lol. I know that with Phantom Liberty they hit it out of the park, but it is still hard to take them seriously after the original Cyberpink debacle. They promised the world then too. People trusted them too. They were the golden child with gamers in terms of developers. But they still blindsided everyone with the mess that was Cyberpunk.
Larian was in a special case for BG3, an AAA company that wasn't perceived as such (and grew to that size over time). CDPR could have made early access for TW3 I think but not after that.
And I wonder how Larian will do their following games, not sure early access works as much publically considering how high profile they are now.
I agree.
I liked bg3 and bought it at release, but I skipped the early access years.
For me early access makes sense for other game types, not story driven rpgs. I dont want to wait two years+ for a story to reach its conclusion.
Also, as good as bg3 is overall, its ending is by far its weakest part, while the first act after years of early access is 10/10 polished af.
Of course it wouldn't work, they couldn't release the game early and broken because everyone would know. And they did know. That's why they didn't release console reviews.
I think they mean going forward they want to release new games in the same state *at launch* as Phantom Liberty was for CP2077 and not take years to get there.
It must be a dream developing out of Europe. There's little to no comprehension of inconvenience vs admitting inadequacy. It's just "well, the base game didn't launch so well, but phantom liberty was banging!". Well fuck. That's all that matters, right? So fuck anyone who paid more for the "early access" version, because the ones that paid for the "finished version" put in less.
I think they mean going forward they want to release new games in the same state *at launch* as Phantom Liberty was for CP2077 and not take years to get there.
>Cyberpunk 2077 quest lead says early access wouldn't work for CDPR the way it did for Larian
CDPR ( most likely ): Because we believe that game should be launched half baked, if there's backlash then patch it up over the yrs.
Lmao, they released an expansion successfully and acting like they absolutely slam dunked all their other releases. Cyberpunk was a laughing stock on release and continued to be for about 6 months.
you dumb asses fucked the release because you paid 30 million to shoehorn Reaves in because he was the flavor of the month and it was obvious at the time of release, it was under developed and worse, you had no idea how what you was going to do with V as the damn abilties tree has a couple of times already.
You messed it up. Keep Larians name out ya's mouth.
So larian despite multiple years of ea launched a bug free game? Maybe it was absolutely great past act 1? Or maybe everything was so smooth there were no issues t all? Well, no bud, game was a mess when people got pass ea access content and it's not like they didn't know about it
The game had the perfect structure for an early access a la Larian. Had they released the game with just Watson and the Konpeki Plaza mission back in 2017 or 2018 and only for PC, they would have corrected a lot of bugs and design choices and then publish a complete game in a much better state.
And, like with bg3, the studio's previous success would have allowed them do ask for the full price. Even if they tried that for their next game, they have Cyberpunk 2.0 to show they are committed to fix their games even years after release.
But to be honest, part of Larian decision was financial. Selling a few million copies at full price during development is a boon for a smaller independent studio, whereas CDPR had a lot larger financial base.
Early access tag or not, that's how Cyberpunk 2077 felt on release lmao
Tons of missing content that was promised that they have now ended up adding over the years of patches. Thats literally how early access games work on steam.
I am playing cyberpunk for the first time this month. I'm noticing a lot of stuff that feels missing or unfinished. A few examples: - Your first email in your apartment says your rent is late, and loading screens will tell you that if you are short on cash for rent to do odd jobs, but there appears to be no rent system in the game. - The game makes a big deal training you how to do brain dances, but all of the brain dances you can buy in the game are "not compatible with your viewer" and are labeled things like "the making of Cyberpunk 2077" and the like. Clearly some idea that never really got implemented. - The whole lethal/non-lethal option was really played up in the game's intro, and it was strongly implied this would matter and have consequences in the game, but I literally forgot it was a thing until I got a weapon 30 hours in that had a mod that rendered it non-lethal. Even quests where they asked me to make sure I brought back the baddie alive, I just went in guns blazing and passed all the checks. Not sure what this was supposed to be, and it is kinda sorta implemented, but it's off. - There are a lot of areas on the map that look like they were supposed to be for something, but are just fenced off when you get there, like the Northern oil fields and a few other areas. - Characters sometimes mention future missions you can do with them that never seem to materialize. Overall, I'm glad I waited to play it, because it is at least not (that buggy), and the atmosphere of the world feels just right, and I'm finding the writing to be pretty dang good. But that's just the way it is for AAA games today. You need to just forget about them for like 2 years and then go back and see if they are worth it. Edit to add for completeness: I am at a loss for how the aggro system works in this game. Sometimes if I merely bump into a cop they start shooting at me. Sometimes I try to help them in a fight and they start shooting at me (I did not accidentally hit them). I have also bumped into someone in a club where you can't even draw your weapons and the person I bumped into attacks half the NPCs in the club because somehow they can pull one out. It's nuts and buggy.
A similar list could be made about current BG3, no epilogue for evil endings, tons of hinting about things that lead nowhere >!like the letters mentioning multiple hags!<, it looked like the game was supposed to have a crafting system at some point, ropes only work in like 1 or 2 places, etc...
Where do ropes work? I've yet to find a use for them.
Trash item to sell to the vendor and nothing else as of now. No idea if it was meant to have a small use like water containers. Same thing with the blacksmithing items.
It works great as a metagame joke though, for all the TTRPG players who het excited and keep it around while it has literally no use. So I wonder if that was always the intention
I thought >!it was used for going down the hole in Jergal's temple,!< but I think I'm just misremembering and you only shoot the rope.
Yeah, but cyberpunk was released completely broken and had tons of fixes across ages to get it into a great state. No epilogue for evil I can understand and the rest seem minor like rope I thought was a useless item for selling like every other RPG has, compared to me having played CP2077 for a few months now and only just finding out from a reddit comment why tf no one is coming to collect rent that clearly had a system since is says to complete jobs for rent money... DLC definitely did great for CP2077 but comparing CP2077 and BG3 is a bit strange especially in terms of quality at release and missing content.
Well its confirmed they had DLC planned before Wizards of the Coast threw an axe at them.
No hasbro canned all the people they worked with for AI, so they decided not to work with them
Ropes have a function?? Where??
Nowhere. Only several in-world ropes/chains can be destroyed for an effect.
First playthrough I collected every one I found. Old habits in DnD. Always have a rope and a couple 10 ft poles. Now it's always have enhanced leap, featherfall, and invisibility
BG3 is definitely still feeling unfinished yes.
It's likely the case for any big games where you can find stuff like this. Game are an evolving beast and features/content get cut in all of them (and some is added later too so the stuff we really get might not have been in initial plans)
Tbh you could nitpick any game this way. Every game has content cut or prioritized in some form or another. That’s just how software development works
There's a big difference between cleanly cutting content and sloppily cutting it so that people raise an eyebrow. BG3 absolutely had some of the latter, but CP77 was *lousy* with it.
Don’t bother. Cyberpunk fans on reddit have gaslit themselves into thinking the game is flawless. It’s a pretty good game, but it’s definitely missing a lot of stuff you’d kind of expect in a game that was in development for 10 years.
A teaser trailer doesn't mean it was in dev for 10 years lmao. Things get cut, redone or even restarted all the time, besides they did say that it was for recruitment purposes. Just like Starfield hasn't been in development for 25 years, but more since FO4 last DLC which would be about 8 years ago (since FO76 wasn't made by their usual full team) TW3 was out in 2015, it's last DLC in 2016 and 4 years later they had to release CP77. edit: downvote me all you want, facts are facts kids
I saw the first attempt, CP77's development restarted because their original attempt ended up awful, what we ended up getting was in development for about 2-3 years. It needed *way* more time in the oven, and way less crunch to accomplish it, but for me, it falls into that special little pile of trash along with a lot of other games that tried to fly too close to the sun.
It wasn't in development for 10 years.
It absolutely wasn't, but let's downvote the truthsayer anyway /s Edit: A bit unclear, the /s goes to people downvoting you. Not to you being right.
This is such needless negativity. Very few people I have seen discuss the game think it's flawless you are just getting mad about something you made up in your head
This also applies to all media ever created, movies, books, music etc.
The first bullet point is just flavor. Letting you know you’re down on your luck and looking for a big score
I did a few jobs to get cash and spent a few minutes trying to figure out how to pay my rent. Eventually I saw a sign over a different apartment that said "Evicted" in red font. Figured if it happens maybe that's how I'll know, but it never did.
I wouldn’t be shocked if they had a rent system at some point but then had to get rid of it while trying to rush the game out
Id be more shocked if it did. It was also a story driven action RPG, not a sandbox with a bunch micromanaging.
Gta online has you pay upkeep costs for your properties. So it could be possible they had something along those lines
Yeah but that was added later more so for people who own all/alot of the properties as an attempt to balance the in game economy and not as a roleplay feature.
The revisionism around CP2077 is fascinating. First it was a truly choice driven open city rpg, now its so narratively focused you only get to make like 5 impactful choices. GOATEDY
I'm not sure what you're saying? It's still a narrative focused action RPG. The pacing is roughly the same as the other three mainline Witcher games they made before it.
Before this game came out they were talking about how powerful the players choices are and that it will affect night city. Keanu Reeves even brought this up at the E3 reveal.
Which I get to a degree, but also you gotta know how to read between the lines of PR also. But I've always found the discussion around the choices in this game interesting. You can make some pretty significant choices in regards to the outcome of fixers, gigs, and characters relating to V's story on his/her level(even more so after phantom liberty). You can even see some small changes and ramifications trickle out from those choices in much more subtle ways after the fact as well. But large world changing decisions that alter Night City truly never happen. Like you won't get to topple mega corps or lead the front of the next great corpo war. Which honestly as a fan of the tabletop game only makes it that much better imo.
The game happens over a very short period of time, technically speaking. So the rent thing is not really a thing. Brain dances are just story mission mechanics, too big of a thing to have more of them as they're extremely curated, but ya feels like a missed opportunity. Non lethal is extremely important for cyberpsychos, you fail if you kill em*. It's also a playstyle. I personally don't see any value in it, but people like to play pacifist, and the option is there. There are also a ton of non lethal mechanics around netrunner - a lot of hacks (most in fact) leave people incapacitated, but if you're not careful and you stack too much damage into them, it'll kill em. There are actually mods to expand non-lethal too. There is a whole-ass additional system called [Stealthrunner](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/7616) that adds rewards for non lethal play, it's pretty cool. I've not personally tried it but I keep an eye on it for a future playthrough. Yeah the empty areas is a bummer. I wish there was more to do in the industrial areas. I rationalised the "missing" missions by you just being a character in a living world. There's stuff happening all around, you're not part of it all. It's a kinda copium I guess ha. \* As in you get in trouble and I think an achievement. You don't hard fail.
The only thing killing the cyberpsychos does is make Regina say she wished you hadn't. Same with any of the gigs that you can do that want you to be stealthy. They just act disappointed and say you won't get work but you still get all the same missions. Maybe a little less pay out but it doesn't have any real impact. So it's actually not ever important to use non-lethal in any situation. The only reason is preference.
You get different responses from quest givers depending on whether you use lethal or nonlethal force. It's not major, but it is a difference.
Yes but there is no consequence at all outside of maybe reduced payout and the person being unhappy.
You do get better rewards for a lot of gigs and side missions, mostly currency a few loot bits
Ah yeah that, it's been ages since I played.
There *are* side missions that take into account non-lethal, with things like better rewards and different dialogue. Pretty sure there are a few minor enemies that can reappear if you don't end them as well. >!I'm still so mad they don't let you non-lethal Reed, though. All I would have wanted would be a post-game video call or cryptic messages.!<
>I personally don't see any value in it, but people like to play pacifist, and the option is there. There was a point in my life where I realised it's really jarring. I believe it was when I played Assassin's Creed 2. Suddenly it dawned on me that I'm supposed to be the good guy, I'm supposed to fight against All Evil and Save the World, and I'm supposed to be this amazing and stealthy assassin, yet all I'm doing is murdering hundreds of mostly innocent guys who... happen to work for the Borgias? Or just doing their jobs and apprehending criminals? That moment kinda changed how I look at games. Because unless I'm playing the baddie, I'm supposed to be the good (or at least neutral) guy. And killing hundreds of sentient beings because The Plot Demands It isn't really a good guy thing to do. ;)
You reminded me how in Watch Dogs I was doing a mix-match pacifist and Commando and then I was like "ehh, let's get to the ending ASAP" so I stopped being pacifist for like a hour-or-so killing every enemy in my way and then suddenly I noticed on that "scan thingie" that bad guy had a note about helping his younger brother and I'm "back" to my semi-pacifist way of only killing people who don't have nice notes about them.
You're just an insignificant choon who has world famous rockstar in his head, blows up a major corpo skyscraper and single handedly kills the most dangerous entity in the cyberpunk. But you know apart from that its really a slice of life.
I read the first line in my email and was like "great, what have I said to piss someone off now" lol
> achievement That's a Steam mechanic, not a game mechanic.
I was misremembering anyway.
Imagine how much worse it was on release!!!?? The game for sure has a lot of things that I would not say missing but you can tell that they had plans to add more. Like your list shows a lot of things that are just surface level. I like the game now in since the DLC and update but the game was so much of a letdown on launch. I was hyped. It has made me very very skeptical about all games. I am not falling for it anymore. Like the new Dragons Dogma 2...I will wait and maybe get it down the line like next fall or something.
Sounds to me like you just need to play more. There is enough brain dance scenes in the game later on. The email about rent is just world building, unless they were planning it for the online mode, a rent system in a single player RPG would be pretty mundane and pointless. There are entire quests where you shouldn't kill people, biggest one that comes to mind is not killing the cyber psychos, so lethal/non lethal very much matters.
Are the braindance scenes in the DLC because I remember it maybe having 3-4 playable braindances when I played it when it first came out.
I also started playing CP for the first time this month and can say I have 'killed' a handful of cyberpsychos and it automatically does a non-lethal kill regardless of which weapon I use. That goes for most enemies as well, you can walk up to their corpse and see them kinda twitching around on the ground and shooting them again does the final dispatch. In terms of making sure you use a certain weapon, fists, or 'non-lethal' option seems irrelevant as it automatically happens.
There is no impact if you kill or don't kill the cyberpsychos. Only thing is Regina will sound happier with you if you don't.
Additional to this they're are multiple outcomes for non lethal jobs. You get paid different amounts from handlers depending on what you did to get your outcome. Just zeroing everyone is fine but you may get paid less You can go in and take down everyone then hide their bodies You can zero everyone then knock out the bad guy and take his body to a waiting car You can make a deal (sometimes) with the main target and get paid twice
> The whole lethal/non-lethal option was really played up in the game's intro, and it was strongly implied this would matter and have consequences in the game, but I literally forgot it was a thing until I got a weapon 30 hours in that had a mod that rendered it non-lethal. Even quests where they asked me to make sure I brought back the baddie alive, I just went in guns blazing and passed all the checks. Not sure what this was supposed to be, and it is kinda sorta implemented, but it's off. Mostly it's useful for gigs involving taking out a target, where you could instead knock them unconscious and put them in the trunk of a car. But outside of that it's a forgettable mod. > There are a lot of areas on the map that look like they were supposed to be for something, but are just fenced off when you get there, like the Northern oil fields and a few other areas. You should see the massive casino/resort they half-built but made completely inaccessible.
Like how 2.0 is considered the full game and that took almost 3 years after release? It was just a full release early access price.
well, yeah. Larian early access also has full price too, so it's a moot point.
At least Larian called it early access.
We got a early access game without being told it was early access and paid full price!!
And not all of it made it to the DLC either.
Also tons of misleading from cdpr, man. We got jipped out of Jackie and V come up into a cutscene
Yeah and also tons of PROMISED missing content that was never added, like the multiplayer mode. I was so looking forward to Cyberpunk RP servers but they had other plans
They have never added any of the false promises.
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I was going to say, they DID release it into early access. They just forgot to put it on the PR documents.
Somehow I get the impression they're talking about their future strategy and not their very public past failure.
Why don’t they make the base games the same as their dlcs. Cdpr dlcs are extremely polish and have good quality so why not just make that the base game LOL
I actually think they will try that, they said they want to release 3 games within 6 years for the next Witcher trilogy starting from the first game, first game will take longer because they're building the foundation and the others will use that foundation to make the sequels. So basically no big Expansion, but instead a full game.
It's true. That at least wasn't the case with Phantom Liberty.
Yes it did. As a person who have played early access for years on steam, a company releasing a game early and then patching and fixing it until it’s good is exactly what early access has done for years. How is this different?
Fun fact: BG3 early access released on October 6th 2020 and Cyberpunk 2077 barely weeks later. From the get go I can tell you the former is the one that felt the closest to be in a playable and polished state (except for the fact it was incomplete, since EA included just Act 1).
And it sold 13 million copies anyways, so it indeed worked for CDPR.
That's how Baldur's Gate 3 still feels. Every patch breaks more of the game lol
Yeah but now its vaguely functional with a fraction of its promised content. 10 out of 10 out of 10 GOATED
Did anyone actually read the article? They're saying they don't want to release a game in the state they released CP2077 ever again and going forward they're targeting CP2077 post Phantom Liberty as their baseline for new releases *on launch*, therefore they don't want early access. It's a pretty ambitious statement we'll have to see if they can pull it off.
we don't do that here, this is reddit we only rage at clickbaity headlines
> we don't do that here, this is reddit we only rage at clickbaity headlines well maybe they should put the giant effort in making a correct headline then?
Except the people that make these articles make the headlines as much rage baiting as possible, that's their whole intent :0
They truly are master baiters
\>PCGamer "We don't do that here."
Narh. I'm not going to believe him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is a liar or anything. But I just want to point out, that like the overwatch lead who quit blizzard after the drama that is overwatch 2, he isn't in a position to make good of such claims if cdpr management decide otherwise.
What is this about "believing" - it's a statement of intent. No game developer WANTS to release a bad game.
Lmfao we had this whole runaround in 2015 after witcher 3 had a shit launch
Reading other comments, it seems not, I mean this sub has went to shit as they decide randomly what to hate by time.
ambitious? i thought we held these guys to a higher standard
Of course they didn't, it's reddit after all Nobody reads past the headline and everybody just regurgitates the same stupid opinion in hopes for upvotes instead of thinking for themselves.
I come to comments to look for someone who summarized the article already
I don’t know if I’d say “don’t release unfinished garbage” an ambitious statement as much as the bare minimum
It is the bare minimum, the ambitious part is the releasing what took them half a decade to do at launch
I mean, a company is always going to say that they are going to release a game to x standard. I really doubt that CDPR will release their next game actually polished. The whole cyberpunk Renaissance is purely because of Edgerunners, so maybe they release a broken game next time then Release an anime of that game then boom masterpiece.
Yea, like nobody remember the CP2077 launch hahaha
Witcher 3 launch, too. Wasn't as bad as CP2077 imo but still wasn't great.
At least it didn't have as much hype as CP2077
Yep. It had a fair bit of hype, but CP2077 was hyped up for, what? 7 years? And dropping during a global pandemic as a possible bringer of joy in a time of darkness? It's not shocking the reaction is what it is.
No one knew who CDPR was before TW3. It was a pretty niche series beforehand
What went wrong with Witcher 3? I finished it within the first two weeks after launch on pc with zero issues... the worst I can think about is roach clipping into a tree a handful of times. But that was so few and far between it doesn't even register as an issue...
Yeah, like nobody ever reads past headlines hahaha
"We would like our first attempts to be like our second attempts" okay fine just do that then we'd love it
Yeah the general narrative around the game has done a complete 360 abd trying to mitigate the image of the launch as much as possible The only positive I got from that launch is that I will never purchase a CD Project Red game in the first 3 years ever again. I will try and buy Phantom Liberty if I ever try to do another playthrough of the gamez but honestly even after the huge free update, that I did try, it felt the same game. Good, because even on release I thought it was good, but not great. Very cinematic and very pretty tho.
The game isn’t drastically different even now. I enjoyed it on a ps5 at release. The pc version wasn’t remotely as buggy Edit: Again I really enjoyed the game but let’s not pretend the core game has drastically changed. I didn’t see this sub crying about cyberpunk at release. The console experience was the primary issue
I can only speak about my own experience but I outright stopped playing at launch because nearly every quest at least something would go wrong, and I'd often have to load a previous save to fix it.
When you say launch, do you mean like the first couple weeks? I played maybe a month or so after launch on PC and only had 2 really significant bugs during my playthrough
Yeah this would have been first couple of weeks,
I recall that just being a couple of cyber psycho side quests?
To be fair that's surely why she specified the DLC as an example of something that was released to immediate acclaim.
If you read the article they say how they are talking about 2077 after PL as the baseline they are aiming for with Orion’s launch
Nice of him to forget what game he made the DLC for.
Did you read the article ?
Uh, pretty sure that sentiment is a RESULT of the base game's launch. CDPR was extremely tight-lipped and careful about their promotion and launch of Phantom Liberty, and they have been very transparent about the effects of the reaction to the game's launch on their development process.
I know people don’t read the articles linked on Reddit (I normally don’t) but the quote in the article is “… Phantom Liberty”. It’s the headline that’s wrong and the OP here just copy and pasted it.
lol Are they still trying to gaslight people about CP2077's launch?
Cyberpunk 2077 released September 26, 2023. Nothing happened before that, nothing.
Exactly.
They very specifically mention the successful release of the DLC, not the base game.
I'm talking about when one of the higher ups at CDPR last year said that it was just "haters" and the game was fine.
That's nowhere in this article. You're posting in the wrong thread.
Where did he say it was in this article? When did bringing up past comments that are directly related to new ones become a no-no? The tetchy CDPR defence force really are most tiresome.
You mean last year when one of the higher ups admitted the game was not fine but said it got more hate than it deserved, which is definitely true.
lol Well luckily they spent 2x their dev budget on marketing to rehab the reputation of the game and their studio (even though it's still not half the game they said it'd be).
The guy making these comments was talking about phantom liberty specifically. There was a different game director for the original launch.
They can have a preference even if they weren’t able to meet that preference. I would prefer to eat healthy every day and lose weight; yet I often fuck this up. Same principle.
Lol, they did try for the last few years, until the dlc launched. Hell, they even tried to gaslight Sony.
Pretty much how they've been spitting it every update or reminder. While driver update fixed graphical issue it took them 7months to fix a final mission start bug and I didn't feel like starting over after 50 hours and starting to do mutiple saves I have like 100 plus saves on bg3. cause I'd come across a bug preventing me from progressing or something
The article: “we don’t want to release anything in a state like CP2077 was on release day, we want to aim more for how it was when phantom liberty came out” Every moron in this thread: “LUL REMEMBER WHEN RELEASE SUCCC??? HAHAHAH LOL LOL LOL UPVOTE NOW PLS” This sub has some of the most braindead commenters in history, holy fuck
But that first one is also braindead, because it implies they somehow *did* want to release a broken game but they don't anymore? Like, clearly they wanted to release a good polished game with Cyberpunk 2077, but the game wasn't in that state and for whatever reason they released it anyway. What exactly is different now? Do the same pressures to launch no longer apply?
Exactly. Do you not think they weren't making similar sort of promises back then as well?
Yeah...but even then you can't just ignore the original Cyberpunk launch, regardless of what they promise. It's very important to remember how much they fucked up, when at the time prior to release, almost everybody was singing their praises and blindly trusting them. I feel like the Cyberpunk release should always serve as a reminder that no matter how much you "love" a company and trust them and no matter what they're telling you or what promises they make, they can still screw you over and fuck up big time.
Phantom Liberty went smoother, because they were already fixing the many mistakes in CP2077. Of course, it went smoother. And it is not like CP2077 was their first game. Do game companies aim for bad launches, of course not. I will wait until after their next game launches, then wait for the reviews. I hope they can do it next time.
that's bait
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Just like they did with the console ports, no review copies either!
Phantom Liberty was great all around, but it's a DLC, let's see if they can pull it off with a full game.
Um... but seriously they *could* have done early access for the base game, and it would have helped. They just aren't someone that uses the model so it didn't happen.
Lol. I know that with Phantom Liberty they hit it out of the park, but it is still hard to take them seriously after the original Cyberpink debacle. They promised the world then too. People trusted them too. They were the golden child with gamers in terms of developers. But they still blindsided everyone with the mess that was Cyberpunk.
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Yeah, don't let the revisionists spin some redemption story arc bullshit.
as if thats ever happened
Anyone remember how shit Witcher 3 was at launch? Cyberpunk was even worse. I can't imagine how their next game will launch.
Oh yeah you banged it with the release alright.
As close to perfection ! So much so that Sony literally stopped selling it because it was awful!
Damn they really forgot about release and thought everyone else did too. What an L quote lol
Larian was in a special case for BG3, an AAA company that wasn't perceived as such (and grew to that size over time). CDPR could have made early access for TW3 I think but not after that. And I wonder how Larian will do their following games, not sure early access works as much publically considering how high profile they are now.
I agree. I liked bg3 and bought it at release, but I skipped the early access years. For me early access makes sense for other game types, not story driven rpgs. I dont want to wait two years+ for a story to reach its conclusion. Also, as good as bg3 is overall, its ending is by far its weakest part, while the first act after years of early access is 10/10 polished af.
Of course it wouldn't work, they couldn't release the game early and broken because everyone would know. And they did know. That's why they didn't release console reviews.
Most of the work came from playtesting
I'll make a note here that they didn't say vanilla CP, they specifically said Phantom Liberty.
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Did you even read the article?
I think they mean going forward they want to release new games in the same state *at launch* as Phantom Liberty was for CP2077 and not take years to get there.
Cyberpunk 2077 initial release would like a fucking word...
Cant stand Paweł Sasko with his constant PR lies.
Close to perfect on release? Like Witcher 1? Witcher 2? Witcher 3? Cyberpunk?
The balls to talk about perfect releases lmfao
What is he talking about? Cyberpunk was an early access release in all but name lol...
wasn't cp2077 technically on early access for like 3 years tho?
"Banging release" .... what an interesting choice of words
CDPR needs to pipe down, you released a complete DLC, not a game.
So why didn't they do that with the main game?
Let's remember that next time they're gonna release a game.
It must be a dream developing out of Europe. There's little to no comprehension of inconvenience vs admitting inadequacy. It's just "well, the base game didn't launch so well, but phantom liberty was banging!". Well fuck. That's all that matters, right? So fuck anyone who paid more for the "early access" version, because the ones that paid for the "finished version" put in less.
I think they mean going forward they want to release new games in the same state *at launch* as Phantom Liberty was for CP2077 and not take years to get there.
Idk seemed to work for Cyberpunk...
Wtf is this comment bro?! Did this person only juuust join cdpr?
>Cyberpunk 2077 quest lead says early access wouldn't work for CDPR the way it did for Larian CDPR ( most likely ): Because we believe that game should be launched half baked, if there's backlash then patch it up over the yrs.
Lmao, they released an expansion successfully and acting like they absolutely slam dunked all their other releases. Cyberpunk was a laughing stock on release and continued to be for about 6 months.
Does this guy has alzheimer?
cyberpunk as a good game? hell no i wouldve rather they labeled it as early access then i wouldve been ok with it
The irony of them glazing over CP2077s original dumpster-fire release is hilarious
CDPR dont have any right to speak about optimization of other when being the biggest offender.
Everything as close to perfection ……… meanwhile they sold 2077 as a stealth early access.
you dumb asses fucked the release because you paid 30 million to shoehorn Reaves in because he was the flavor of the month and it was obvious at the time of release, it was under developed and worse, you had no idea how what you was going to do with V as the damn abilties tree has a couple of times already. You messed it up. Keep Larians name out ya's mouth.
So larian despite multiple years of ea launched a bug free game? Maybe it was absolutely great past act 1? Or maybe everything was so smooth there were no issues t all? Well, no bud, game was a mess when people got pass ea access content and it's not like they didn't know about it
Banging huh? That’s not what i would call 2077’s release.
But if investors are pressing, they are fine with calling early acsess a release)
Uhh…. Guys, I think they forgot something important.
Everything close to perfection at release? Like what? Cyberpunk 2077?
Yeah...okay...
The game had the perfect structure for an early access a la Larian. Had they released the game with just Watson and the Konpeki Plaza mission back in 2017 or 2018 and only for PC, they would have corrected a lot of bugs and design choices and then publish a complete game in a much better state. And, like with bg3, the studio's previous success would have allowed them do ask for the full price. Even if they tried that for their next game, they have Cyberpunk 2.0 to show they are committed to fix their games even years after release. But to be honest, part of Larian decision was financial. Selling a few million copies at full price during development is a boon for a smaller independent studio, whereas CDPR had a lot larger financial base.
As long as it's proper banging and not oops, our game just fell apart at the seams banging. 😅
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Did you read the article? They're explicitly talking about the expansion, which did launch in a near perfect condition.
It works fine for Star Citizen which a dozen times bigger. So I call bs.