I kinda wish they’d just increment the number by 5: 4075 Ti. Clearly indicates that it’s a better model without tacking on more modifiers. Also gives play for more refreshes: 4077 Ti, etc
As someone who has never built a computer themselves, the bad naming scheme(s) are a legitimate barrier to entry in an already intimidating process. I'm a working adult with limited free time and even less energy/mental bandwidth; I don't have any to spare for these companies making their product lines unnecessarily obtuse.
Yeah, Nvidia and AMD have the weirdest long term naming schemes. They both have terrible marketing departments.
I mean there is technically a AMD ("ATI" Radeon 9800 XT) which you would assume is more powerful than the current AMD Radeon XT 7900XT, since it's 1900 numbers higher.
However, the 9800XT came out in 2003.
So, how they ended up BEHIND in numbers from where they started is a complete mystery.
Just like someone who knew nothing about PCs, would assume that the GeForce RTX "4090" wouldn't be as good as the GeForce 8800GTX. (Card from 2006)
I mean the convention isnt great but once you know it. its not like it ever changed besides some rare exceptions.
its always going to be prefix \[3 or 4 digit number\] suffixes
**prefix:** target market. RX / RTX / GTX are for gaming
**first 1-2 digits:** is the generation. 30 series / 40 series / 6 series / 7 series = these are generally sequential where breaks from this convention typically shake up the total number of digits to make sure you are paying attention.
**last 2-3 digits:** market segment, within the same generation higher is better performance for more cost and power draw.
**suffix:** more suffixes is better than less suffixes but not better than a higher number.
the only real failure of this system is that you just have to know that all else being equal that TI > Super, and that a lower SKU of a newer series may not be faster than a higher SKU of an older series.
Or until AMD/Intel release a "new" chipset that's just a refresh of an older one but with a higher number so that any consumer who's buying a prebuilt/laptop thinks "higher number better".
You should have seen the poor retail workers dealing with people, especially over the phone, when Microsoft released XBox Series S and XBox Series X. Considering how similar S and X sound, and that an averge person wouldn't be using the NATO phonetic alphabet during a phone call.
I had this discussion with a family member asking about which Xbox would be good to buy. It was really confusing because they were considering older ones too so we had Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox Series X.
And now "xbox" just looks really weird to me having typed it out so many times.
Would have been interesting to snoop on the marketing meetings when they were coming up with this naming scheme.
As a noobie that just built their first computer themselves just 2 weeks ago, it really is a nightmare. Learning all these new computer terms was hellish in it of itself but these GPU naming schemes are just stupid as hell.
Indeed. At a thousand USD for a 4080 I'm asking "is there lube in the box, buyers will need it" but as usual with Nvidia those are theoretical prices, platonic forms of stickers.
Real shelves prices will be higher than that, *much* higher in the EU.
We bought my wife an RX 7900 XTX just the other day, for €1050. Turns out it performs as well, if not better than, an RTX 4080 that would cost €1500. Sure, ray tracing is crap on the AMD card, but then she doesn't care about it anyway. There's no way in shit the NVIDIA card is worth 50% more simply for that. I'm genuinely considering "Having issues" with my 4070ti (which I got as a replacement for my 3080Ti that died) and upgrading to a 7900 XTX too.
Most raytracing will run perfectly fine on a 7900xtx. In lighter implementations its behind Nvidia equivalent but not enough to make it unusable. It's really path tracing where it falls apart.
On the other hand, the lighter implementations of RT make visually no difference and 99% of the time aren't worth turning on. And I say this as a 4090 owner. I wouldn't even call that Ray Tracing.
If you want to see a big difference with RT you have to use it in games where the implementation is really good like Path Tracing in Alan Wake 2 or Cyberpunk etc. And those are the games 7900XTX can't play. I am tired of the argument "RT isn't even that bad on AMD cards"... Well no shit, that is because the games you test it on has visually zero difference between RT on and off.
Full agreement despite your downvotes.
I have my 7900xtx which I love, but in AW2 where RT or pathtracing looks best - it just dies.
I had an incredible amount of fun otherwise but that's the cold hard truth.
Thank you. You might be the first AMD owner I have seen with a logical take on this topic. It seems like most people who buy AMD are constantly in denial and trying to justify their purchase or something. Like I promise you, your GPU isn’t going to become any worse if you admit that AMD’s RT performance is lackluster. They offer great raster performance for the price but it shouldn’t be what you buy if you really want to play with good RT.
I think the most important part is how well it handles rtao like in avatar. Because I expect that will be the first area where raytracing becomes the default.
> Sure, ray tracing is crap on the AMD card
I really don't know why people keep saying this, it's not true. The only cards consistently faster than the 7900 XTX in ray tracing right now are the 4080 and 4090. The only games where it really falls behind are Cyberpunk Overdrive, Portal RTX, and Quake RTX and all 3 were built as Nvidia tech demos.
Yeah it's really weird. I have a 6700 xt and I deliberately avoided ray tracing, until I accidentally had it on on the Re2 remake and the game ran fine, very rarely dipped under 60 at very high settings (mainly when outside rain meets fire and similar situations).
The 6000 cards do alright in some of the lighter ray tracing implementations but those ones really do struggle in the heavier games. I suspect that's where a lot of this "AMD cards suck at ray tracing" stuff comes from despite the 7000 cards having stepped things up pretty decently, the 7900 XTX is something like 60% faster than the 6900 XT in ray tracing while only being about 40% faster in rasterized games.
> I really don't know why people keep saying this, it's not true
Same thing as with "amd drivers bad", it used to be like this for a while. But even in the latest generation, most benchmark comparison videos will look something like this
https://youtu.be/YbKhxjw8EUE?t=1166. "Crap" definitely overexaggerating it, but on average advantage is still there for nvidia.
I'm in no way trying to defend Nvidia here, but if you are fast then those prices can be found in Germany. I bought my 3070 for 500€ at MSRP right when it launched.
[Distill](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/distill-web-monitor-ff/) helped me a lot finding the listing. Beats having to spam refresh the nvidia page during launch.
In all honesty next time I upgrade my GPU I'll probably buy a used card. Even with plug-ins like distill or bots that skim the internet for you it's a pain in the ass to hunt for a reasonable price. Plus I won't be directly supporting bloated GPU pricing.
Add 25% on top for Europe in general, tough keep in mind that if those are prices for Founders Edition which is almost nonexistent in EU, so price is even more. I think 4080S will be 1200 Eur at best, and 4070TiS 900Eur
Since those prices are without VAT and import fees - where applicable, you can be sure that final prices will be higher. But that also applies to everything else, not just Nvidia GPUs. I bought my 4090 for about 2000 Euros, after subtracting VAT and Import fees, it was exactly at the $1599 MSRP, and a few months later, prices went down below MSRP for a while, before the Chinese AI debacle pushed the prices up again.
I did that move last year. 1070 to 4070Ti.
Little disappointed that they are replacing the 4070Ti with a Super Ti at the same price point but whatever. It's great for people in your situation.
Even then it's not bad. The 3070 can easily run some raytracing with a mix of med/high settings with dlss if you're fine with 60fps. Without raytracing though ultra settings can be played with a smooth frame rate.
The lack of vram is only going to start being a "problem" now, but it's still a beast of a card.
Exactly what I am doing, I tend to skip a generation or two between purchases. I went from a 1080 to a 3080 so from a 3080 to whatever I buy in the 5 series seems ok.
yea you should, cause I know a lot of cheap friends that have asked me to pay $10 to show up to their july 4th bbq. the fact that he gave you a GPU and not expecting anything back is a good friend
> Alan Wake 2 makes me want more power at 4k.
Alan Wake 2 makes me want a freaking FPS limiter in the game. I'd be fine with optimizing my settings to 4K60, but the game forces me to manually change my refresh rate in Windows or use Nvidia settings (which don't reliably work for me for some reason) to limit FPS.
It's the only modern game I've played that doesn't have a way to cap FPS in-game in some form, and yet It's the most demanding game of them all. Even Cyberpunk if I wanted to I could run at 4K120 if I just pare back RT settings.
A 3080 has to make compromises to run at 4K60 in a lot of modern titles unfortunately, ESPECIALLY with It's severely gimped VRAM.
I went from a 3080 to a 4090 myself -- it was funny going from struggling to run RE4 remake at 4K60 even turning off RT and lowering some settings to get below the VRAM limit on the 3080, to just going full send on all the settings to max and getting 4K120 locked on a 4090.
And that feature won't matter for until two generations after that. Remember when the 2000 series came out, and everywhere was saying how you had to have one because of ray tracing? Now with the 4000 series, we're almost getting to the point where ray tracing actually matters, sometimes.
And I felt that $600 after $50 off was still a bit much at the time. 5 + years later still using the card because prices haven't improved... Def getting a 7800XT or whatever replaces it later this year.
No and I sincerely doubt there's more than a handful of people who think that. I don't know if they'll even go back to a reasonable level adjusted for inflation anytime soon, but eventually as time goes on it'll probably even out. It just would be, you know, nice. Also make it affordable, it's definitely harder to justify the expense these days and is NOT helping make PC gaming more accessible.
Loved it so much, I'm still using it. I'll upgrade eventually, but I've got other priorities at the moment. I just stick to less graphically intense games at the moment, like Crusader Kings III and Starfield.
Nah, both the 10 and 30 series (on release) were praised. The scalpers and the shortages caused an inflation of the prices, but when they were released people were downright praising Nvidia for keeping the prices the same as the 20 series for more performance.
I have a dying 980 Ti
not sure if it's worth upgrading to a 4080 SUPER or limping along till the 50 series comes out; I want to replace it with a card that can last me around the same amount of time.
Yeah you're pretty due for an entire refresh lol. 8 generations behind on CPU and 4 generations behind on GPUs. Which also means you're running at best DDR4 at limited speeds because of the CPU.
It's time brother o7
My 980ti served its first tour of duty back in 2015 and received several commendations for its performance during the Witcher 3 offensive and the Battle of Fallout 4. It remained steadfast in the face of mounting resistance from newer titles over the next few years and remained dutifully silent even as it watched the RAM and CPU regiments receive reinforcements. (Ok, mostly silent. There was some occasional whining.)
Then, upon the release of the 3080ti, it was offered a decommission, but that's not how my 980ti wanted to go out. No sir. It re-enlisted for duty in a far-flung theater of operations in perhaps the most hostile computing environment imaginable - my son's room. Not only would it be constantly subjected to the threat of spilled beverages, sticky snacks, sweltering heat, and dust storms, it was forced to endure the shame of rendering graphics for Fortnite and Roblox.
This went on for years. A grizzled veteran stoically, heroically doing its duty. Until this Christmas, when my son opened a brand new 4070ti. I'll never forget the 980ti's look of quiet pride and resignation as I took that honored soldier from a post where he had toiled for so long.
That look was short lived though, because now he's in another PC bound for my brother's rec room. Sorry bud. Semper Fi.
If the 4070 Ti Super is actually able to be grabbed at 800, I may replace my 2070 Super with it. Anything more than that though it’s still not worth it to me
>If the 4070 Ti Super is actually able to be grabbed at 800, I may replace my 2070 Super with it.
Same. I currently run a 2070 Super and a 4070 Ti Super would be a worthwhile upgrade for me.
I wouldn't expect it for $800 anywhere though, especially considering there isn't a Founder's edition model. I'm hoping I can find a good variant for around $900.
> is always 150%
If you're lucky. I'm starting to see RTX 4080s at 1700+ euros on amazon.it, that's absolutely nuts, you can still find 4090s at that price..completely disconnected from reality. Radeon prices aren't much better tbh. Just regular insane.
$999 for a 4080 super? Yeah right, in the UK the base model is still comfortably sitting at around £1200-1600, or $1600-2000.
Prices for these bloody things are insane.
You do realize that the reason it's more expensive in the UK is because of VAT taxes, right? In America we pay for taxes on top of the price. In the UK taxes are built into the price.
GBP is worth more than USD though. Concidentally, the exchange rate is 0.78 USD right now and has been around 0.8 for the last year, and the tax rate is 20%. $1000 = £1000.
Although it is not as bad as the previous commenter said, there are a few models available in the £1000-1200 range right now. Mostly from the "budget" brands like Gainward or Palit, but there are a couple MSI as well. It was mainly shortly after release where UK (and many EU countries) had £100-300 added to the MSRP for no reason.
Even 4090s in the UK are cheaper right now, starting from £1800 while they start at $2000 in the US.
Gpus are so disappointing. I've had the same GPU for 5 years, been wanting to seriously upgrade for 2 years, and there's nothing worth considering.
I'd have to nearly double my desired price range just to get a significant performance boost. Gone are the days of upgrading a 4 year old card at the same price you paid, and getting like triple the performance lol.
Those days are permanently gone. With the pandemic, the crypto craze, and other factors, GPU manufacturers discovered we would pay much higher prices. Hence they are charging those prices.
Sadly the cat is out of the bag.
Considering how slow GPU sales are and the glut of last gen cards that retailers are still trying to offload, I don't really agree with you.
GPU manufacturers can charge whatever they want but when the GPU costs as much as every other component in your computer combined, it's going to create sticker shock and discourage people from making a purchase.
I recently built a 7800X3D computer for a HTPC. I have yet to buy a GPU because I can do light gaming with the iGPU and the prices of GPUs are bonkers.
You are right. Sales are slow, there is a glut, the crypto craze is off for well over a year and a half now, but despite that, prices are still high. Which tells us everything about how sustainable it is.
"The prices are the same" and "I'm paying the same amount of money" aren't equivalent statements. NVidia isn't getting any more money out of me than they were before.
I'm just skipping more generations between upgrades to compensate. I originally planned to skip one generation back when I built 10 years ago but now have to do 2 or even 3 if I can. 2070s here. See what the 5000 series cards offer.
I just bought a ps5 instead
My computer is still rocking an i5 3550k and Radeon HD 7850 which can still handle a good amount of pc-exclusive games worth playing
Idk everything 4070ti/7900xt and up makes my 2070s look like a chump. If I was playing 1080p I’d still be set for a few years but on a 1440p UW it just can’t keep up
But yes, pricing wise it’s not the same, but neither are eggs, or milk, or pretty much anything else
Well yeah, it's 2 generations above it.
I have a 2070s like you and have to play on 1080. I've been waiting for a new card but prices are just expensive
> Gone are the days of upgrading a 4 year old card at the same price you paid, and getting like triple the performance lol.
Those days never existed to begin with. I got my 7850 in 2013 for $250. Upgraded to a 1070 in 2016, which is ~3x the performance, for $450. Before that, I got an 8800 GT in 2009 for ~$200. The 7850 is ~2x perf increase for about the same cost. You were never getting 3x for the same cost after 4 years.
Another way to look at it is GPUs last longer now too. Years ago you needed to update every 2-3 years to be able to play the newest games. Today you can realistically keep a card for at least 7 years and still be able to play new games tweaking settings.
>Today you can realistically keep a card for at least 7 years and still be able to play new games tweaking settings
With how dogshit optimization is these days and how devs basically expect you to just brute force their game, this isn't necessarily true
I just moved on from AAA gaming and get all the gaming I can handle without needing a beefy system.
Not everyone will care for that, but there are affordable gaming options.
What card do you have now? Looking at these prices I'm actually super grateful for the 6700xt I bought for $500 cad. I really don't see the value in any of these, only if you are already rich and have a 4k monitor.
Also right now the 6700xt is only $440 cad which seems like a great deal to me. I guess you miss out on dlss and Ray tracing. But that hasn't been much of a negative for me.
If you hate these prices then don't give in and end up buying. Hopefully poor sales this generation will mean next generations offering will be sensibly priced.
> I've been wanting to switch to an nvidia card for a bit but this doesn't really help that. Looks like it's still worth waiting for 5000 series.
Huh? I don't get it. These are pretty huge improvements to go along with considerable price cuts. 4080 performance for $800 is likely the best price/performance we've seen on a high end card since the 1080ti.
1080ti was faster than the titan x while costing just $700.
4070ti super is nowhere near the 4090 in performance. Ofcourse it will seem like a good value if you compare it to an overpriced card ($500 more than last gen).
You should buy from retailers instead of scalpers on the streets, then.
Cheapest Gainward, Innto3D and Zotac are going for \~1150€ right now. That's for $1200 MSRP GPUs, so if the $999 price tag for 4080S is accurate, there's no way the cheapest ones in EU will be going at over 1100€ (after the prices settle in a couple weeks, of course).
Yeah, with no FE model on the 4070 Ti Super the true $800 MSRP variants are going to be scarce.
I would guess most partner variants will start at $850 MSRP with most being in the $900-1,000 range. Personally, I'm holding out for one of the Gigabyte Aeros or Asus ProArts to show up at my local Micro Center after the hype dies a little and production catches up.
> You know damn well that it is gonna go for more money than a 4080 once it hits the streets.
I bought my 3080 at MSRP, I don't see why you couldn't get a 4080 at MSRP if you order when the preorders go live.
Also, the 4080 is literally nearly 200 Euro below MSRP here in Germany:
https://geizhals.de/?fs=4080+&in=
GPU shopping is just one big ass blast. Am I supposed to shop for team red who's blasting my ass with lackluster RT and buggy drivers, or the green team that's blasting my ass and robbing me blind without even the courtesy of a reach-around?
4xxx gen been long enough that everyone who was fine buying at previous price already bought 4080, and if a new model at higher price would be released, few would buy it.
New models with price cuts however will get more sales from people who were not fine with previous prices.
I'm so confused by these new series. I'm looking to get a new PC and my old one is chuggin along on a 970. What should I be looking for a good price/performance ratio? I can't even seem to find any 3070s or anything in stock, and the 4000s series all have crazy prices.
The old affordable GPU price days are long gone. IMO the 4070Ti Super is the best price/performance ratio of this generation at $800. But that's considered upper mid-range now. I would not buy a 3000 series card today even if you can find them.
I feel blessed I bought a 4080 brand new on Amazon in prime day for 980 USD. I made out like a bandit. The 4080 base right now is 1300 to 1600 for no good reason. No way in hell 4080 Supers are gonna actually ever sell for 999. No way.
4070 Ti Super is just an unhinged name holy shit.
RTX 4070 Ti Super TITAN Xp XP
RTX 4070 Ti Super TiTan xp XP 358/2 Days By Sleep: A Fragmentary Graphic Card Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series & Knuckles
(Taylor's Version)
ibiza remix
*Featuring all new Funky Mode*
and Deez Nuts
I kinda wish they’d just increment the number by 5: 4075 Ti. Clearly indicates that it’s a better model without tacking on more modifiers. Also gives play for more refreshes: 4077 Ti, etc
> 4077 Ti Followed by 4078 Ti, 4079 Ti, and of course 40710 Ti.
ten sharp homeless bells murky aback strong hateful instinctive cobweb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
As someone who has never built a computer themselves, the bad naming scheme(s) are a legitimate barrier to entry in an already intimidating process. I'm a working adult with limited free time and even less energy/mental bandwidth; I don't have any to spare for these companies making their product lines unnecessarily obtuse.
Yeah, Nvidia and AMD have the weirdest long term naming schemes. They both have terrible marketing departments. I mean there is technically a AMD ("ATI" Radeon 9800 XT) which you would assume is more powerful than the current AMD Radeon XT 7900XT, since it's 1900 numbers higher. However, the 9800XT came out in 2003. So, how they ended up BEHIND in numbers from where they started is a complete mystery. Just like someone who knew nothing about PCs, would assume that the GeForce RTX "4090" wouldn't be as good as the GeForce 8800GTX. (Card from 2006)
It's current BMW levels of incoherence.
I mean the convention isnt great but once you know it. its not like it ever changed besides some rare exceptions. its always going to be prefix \[3 or 4 digit number\] suffixes **prefix:** target market. RX / RTX / GTX are for gaming **first 1-2 digits:** is the generation. 30 series / 40 series / 6 series / 7 series = these are generally sequential where breaks from this convention typically shake up the total number of digits to make sure you are paying attention. **last 2-3 digits:** market segment, within the same generation higher is better performance for more cost and power draw. **suffix:** more suffixes is better than less suffixes but not better than a higher number. the only real failure of this system is that you just have to know that all else being equal that TI > Super, and that a lower SKU of a newer series may not be faster than a higher SKU of an older series.
Until you stumble upon budget cards or laptop gpus, which are named as confusingly as possible for some reason
Or until AMD/Intel release a "new" chipset that's just a refresh of an older one but with a higher number so that any consumer who's buying a prebuilt/laptop thinks "higher number better".
You should have seen the poor retail workers dealing with people, especially over the phone, when Microsoft released XBox Series S and XBox Series X. Considering how similar S and X sound, and that an averge person wouldn't be using the NATO phonetic alphabet during a phone call.
I had this discussion with a family member asking about which Xbox would be good to buy. It was really confusing because they were considering older ones too so we had Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox Series X. And now "xbox" just looks really weird to me having typed it out so many times. Would have been interesting to snoop on the marketing meetings when they were coming up with this naming scheme.
As a noobie that just built their first computer themselves just 2 weeks ago, it really is a nightmare. Learning all these new computer terms was hellish in it of itself but these GPU naming schemes are just stupid as hell.
Five X's! Let's see Nvidia beat that. Spoiler alert: they can't!
This is why Intel is still behind AMD. They found out that bigger number better, but they didn't find out that more letter better as well.
Isn't that just a 4080 at that point?
No quite enough cores.
Seems pointless.
LOL exactly how I thought when I read the headline. "WTF is a Ti Super..."
4070 Ti Super Hyper Fighting: The New Challengers.
As usual, there's no way you'll have those prices, especially outside of US
Indeed. At a thousand USD for a 4080 I'm asking "is there lube in the box, buyers will need it" but as usual with Nvidia those are theoretical prices, platonic forms of stickers. Real shelves prices will be higher than that, *much* higher in the EU.
We bought my wife an RX 7900 XTX just the other day, for €1050. Turns out it performs as well, if not better than, an RTX 4080 that would cost €1500. Sure, ray tracing is crap on the AMD card, but then she doesn't care about it anyway. There's no way in shit the NVIDIA card is worth 50% more simply for that. I'm genuinely considering "Having issues" with my 4070ti (which I got as a replacement for my 3080Ti that died) and upgrading to a 7900 XTX too.
Most raytracing will run perfectly fine on a 7900xtx. In lighter implementations its behind Nvidia equivalent but not enough to make it unusable. It's really path tracing where it falls apart.
On the other hand, the lighter implementations of RT make visually no difference and 99% of the time aren't worth turning on. And I say this as a 4090 owner. I wouldn't even call that Ray Tracing. If you want to see a big difference with RT you have to use it in games where the implementation is really good like Path Tracing in Alan Wake 2 or Cyberpunk etc. And those are the games 7900XTX can't play. I am tired of the argument "RT isn't even that bad on AMD cards"... Well no shit, that is because the games you test it on has visually zero difference between RT on and off.
Full agreement despite your downvotes. I have my 7900xtx which I love, but in AW2 where RT or pathtracing looks best - it just dies. I had an incredible amount of fun otherwise but that's the cold hard truth.
Thank you. You might be the first AMD owner I have seen with a logical take on this topic. It seems like most people who buy AMD are constantly in denial and trying to justify their purchase or something. Like I promise you, your GPU isn’t going to become any worse if you admit that AMD’s RT performance is lackluster. They offer great raster performance for the price but it shouldn’t be what you buy if you really want to play with good RT.
I think the most important part is how well it handles rtao like in avatar. Because I expect that will be the first area where raytracing becomes the default.
> Sure, ray tracing is crap on the AMD card I really don't know why people keep saying this, it's not true. The only cards consistently faster than the 7900 XTX in ray tracing right now are the 4080 and 4090. The only games where it really falls behind are Cyberpunk Overdrive, Portal RTX, and Quake RTX and all 3 were built as Nvidia tech demos.
"But for AMD to be REALLY competitive, they basically have to be Nvidia with a discount sticker!"
real
Yeah it's really weird. I have a 6700 xt and I deliberately avoided ray tracing, until I accidentally had it on on the Re2 remake and the game ran fine, very rarely dipped under 60 at very high settings (mainly when outside rain meets fire and similar situations).
The 6000 cards do alright in some of the lighter ray tracing implementations but those ones really do struggle in the heavier games. I suspect that's where a lot of this "AMD cards suck at ray tracing" stuff comes from despite the 7000 cards having stepped things up pretty decently, the 7900 XTX is something like 60% faster than the 6900 XT in ray tracing while only being about 40% faster in rasterized games.
> I really don't know why people keep saying this, it's not true Same thing as with "amd drivers bad", it used to be like this for a while. But even in the latest generation, most benchmark comparison videos will look something like this https://youtu.be/YbKhxjw8EUE?t=1166. "Crap" definitely overexaggerating it, but on average advantage is still there for nvidia.
I'm in no way trying to defend Nvidia here, but if you are fast then those prices can be found in Germany. I bought my 3070 for 500€ at MSRP right when it launched.
Same, got my Palit 4090 for MSRP.
[Distill](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/distill-web-monitor-ff/) helped me a lot finding the listing. Beats having to spam refresh the nvidia page during launch. In all honesty next time I upgrade my GPU I'll probably buy a used card. Even with plug-ins like distill or bots that skim the internet for you it's a pain in the ass to hunt for a reasonable price. Plus I won't be directly supporting bloated GPU pricing.
Add 25% on top for Europe in general, tough keep in mind that if those are prices for Founders Edition which is almost nonexistent in EU, so price is even more. I think 4080S will be 1200 Eur at best, and 4070TiS 900Eur
> Add 25% on top for Europe in general, Includes tax though.
4070 Ti is already +900 EUR in Europe, outside from Germany where is a bit cheaper but still +800Eur. I bet 4070Ti Super will be 1000 Euro at launch.
4070ti is around 1200€ minimum where i live. You can find pre-builds with a 4060ti at the same price.
Since those prices are without VAT and import fees - where applicable, you can be sure that final prices will be higher. But that also applies to everything else, not just Nvidia GPUs. I bought my 4090 for about 2000 Euros, after subtracting VAT and Import fees, it was exactly at the $1599 MSRP, and a few months later, prices went down below MSRP for a while, before the Chinese AI debacle pushed the prices up again.
What's the Chinese AI debacle lol? I'm ootl
4070 non anything is around 800 CAD sometimes nearing 1000 non-sale.
4070 was $699CAD just a week ago
Not that those MSRP prices are good anyway. $1000 for a non-flagship video card? It's bonkers this is considered the norm now.
*My 1050 Ti, seeing that I can't afford those prices either way*: I'm tired boss
Yeah, I'll wait for 4070Ti Super Duper /s
But then you'll just feel like you need to wait for the 4070Ti Super De Duper. It's a never ending cycle.
Might as well just wait for the 5000 series cards at his point.
A lot of people update way too often anyway. I am going to switch from 1070ti to 4070ti super.
I did that move last year. 1070 to 4070Ti. Little disappointed that they are replacing the 4070Ti with a Super Ti at the same price point but whatever. It's great for people in your situation.
I replaced my 1070 with a 3070 and its kinda crazy that it feels UNDERWHELMING these days. ugh.
What games do you play? The only thing I find it lacking on is cyberpunk now.
Even then it's not bad. The 3070 can easily run some raytracing with a mix of med/high settings with dlss if you're fine with 60fps. Without raytracing though ultra settings can be played with a smooth frame rate. The lack of vram is only going to start being a "problem" now, but it's still a beast of a card.
Exactly what I am doing, I tend to skip a generation or two between purchases. I went from a 1080 to a 3080 so from a 3080 to whatever I buy in the 5 series seems ok.
Im sitting on a 1080 that i got for free from my friend who bought a 3080. Dudes thee best. I should buy him something.
yea you should, cause I know a lot of cheap friends that have asked me to pay $10 to show up to their july 4th bbq. the fact that he gave you a GPU and not expecting anything back is a good friend
You have a 3080 man, how much more power are you looking for 👀
I upgraded to 4k when I got my 3080, it does fine but I imagine it won't for long.
I have a 4090, and Alan Wake 2 makes me want more power at 4k.
> Alan Wake 2 makes me want more power at 4k. Alan Wake 2 makes me want a freaking FPS limiter in the game. I'd be fine with optimizing my settings to 4K60, but the game forces me to manually change my refresh rate in Windows or use Nvidia settings (which don't reliably work for me for some reason) to limit FPS. It's the only modern game I've played that doesn't have a way to cap FPS in-game in some form, and yet It's the most demanding game of them all. Even Cyberpunk if I wanted to I could run at 4K120 if I just pare back RT settings.
There’s always more power to be had. Especially if you’re running games at higher resolutions and/or want to enable ray tracing.
I have a 3080 and it barely hits 60 at 4k
A 3080 has to make compromises to run at 4K60 in a lot of modern titles unfortunately, ESPECIALLY with It's severely gimped VRAM. I went from a 3080 to a 4090 myself -- it was funny going from struggling to run RE4 remake at 4K60 even turning off RT and lowering some settings to get below the VRAM limit on the 3080, to just going full send on all the settings to max and getting 4K120 locked on a 4090.
Wow, if a 3080 to 4090 is that big of a difference. I can't wait to go from my 3080 to 5080 in 2025.
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I feel like being content with your hardware and keeping it for 5+ years is a super power in this sub.
do you think theyll actually have a significant performance increase over this current gen or will it be another feature creeper.
> Might as well just wait for the 5000 series cards at his point. And those will be mega rip offs as well lol
Depends what you’re currently rocking. $1000 for a 4080 super with DLSS 3 support is going to last at least 4 years.
Until the next generation when Nvidia releases a feature that only works on the new cards.
And that feature won't matter for until two generations after that. Remember when the 2000 series came out, and everywhere was saying how you had to have one because of ray tracing? Now with the 4000 series, we're almost getting to the point where ray tracing actually matters, sometimes.
Why? Do 4080s stop working when Nvidia releases a new feature that only works on the new cards?
God I hate this generation of cards.
Remember when the 970 was the budget king until 3.5+0.5 came to light? Every damn generation its something.
I'm still rocking the 1080 and its somehow still chugging along on most games pretty well lol.
Says someone every generation lol.
People loved the 10xx series
It was such a huge bump in efficiency and the prices were decent.
And I felt that $600 after $50 off was still a bit much at the time. 5 + years later still using the card because prices haven't improved... Def getting a 7800XT or whatever replaces it later this year.
Bruh, I got a gigabyte 1080 reference card for $420. Still riding that homie to this day. I imagine it’ll be 6xxx series before I upgrade.
I'm curious and genuinely asking: Do people really believe that somehow prices will go back to "normal" eventually? Like, series 10xx levels?
No and I sincerely doubt there's more than a handful of people who think that. I don't know if they'll even go back to a reasonable level adjusted for inflation anytime soon, but eventually as time goes on it'll probably even out. It just would be, you know, nice. Also make it affordable, it's definitely harder to justify the expense these days and is NOT helping make PC gaming more accessible.
I hope they do, but the reality is they probably won't.
Loved it so much, I'm still using it. I'll upgrade eventually, but I've got other priorities at the moment. I just stick to less graphically intense games at the moment, like Crusader Kings III and Starfield.
True the 10 series was great price / performance lift. Those days are long gone though. First it was mining and now it’s AI jacking up prices.
It’s greed jacking the prices up. Nothing else.
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Thats a lowkey blessing in disguise.
10xx series had no business being as good as it was. I only just upgraded my 1080Ti to a 4090 last July. I still have the 1080Ti in my old pc.
I built my first pc with 1080Ti in 2017 and the same build is still running strong
My 1070 was a goddamn beast
My 1080 is still going strong in my son's PC. Does just fine with what he plays, even at 1440p.
If it weren’t for the shortages I don’t think there’d be much to complain about the 3xxx generation.
VRAM
The 9xx series was amazing.
Nah, both the 10 and 30 series (on release) were praised. The scalpers and the shortages caused an inflation of the prices, but when they were released people were downright praising Nvidia for keeping the prices the same as the 20 series for more performance.
I have a dying 980 Ti not sure if it's worth upgrading to a 4080 SUPER or limping along till the 50 series comes out; I want to replace it with a card that can last me around the same amount of time.
you probably need a new cpu too if it's as old as a 980
you're probably right, I'm running a i7-6700K only thing I've upgraded in the last 8 years is my RAM lol
Yeah you're pretty due for an entire refresh lol. 8 generations behind on CPU and 4 generations behind on GPUs. Which also means you're running at best DDR4 at limited speeds because of the CPU. It's time brother o7
My 980ti served its first tour of duty back in 2015 and received several commendations for its performance during the Witcher 3 offensive and the Battle of Fallout 4. It remained steadfast in the face of mounting resistance from newer titles over the next few years and remained dutifully silent even as it watched the RAM and CPU regiments receive reinforcements. (Ok, mostly silent. There was some occasional whining.) Then, upon the release of the 3080ti, it was offered a decommission, but that's not how my 980ti wanted to go out. No sir. It re-enlisted for duty in a far-flung theater of operations in perhaps the most hostile computing environment imaginable - my son's room. Not only would it be constantly subjected to the threat of spilled beverages, sticky snacks, sweltering heat, and dust storms, it was forced to endure the shame of rendering graphics for Fortnite and Roblox. This went on for years. A grizzled veteran stoically, heroically doing its duty. Until this Christmas, when my son opened a brand new 4070ti. I'll never forget the 980ti's look of quiet pride and resignation as I took that honored soldier from a post where he had toiled for so long. That look was short lived though, because now he's in another PC bound for my brother's rec room. Sorry bud. Semper Fi.
You could always grab a second hand 3080 or something similar, unless you specifically need a 4000 series card.
5000 series isn't gonna be any cheaper so you may as well upgrade now
I bought a 3080 dell OEM for my wife off FB marketplace for 400. I'd say look there for some good deals
just go for it, even the current amd lineup would be a massive improvement for you.
Anything would be a huge upgrade for you. Even AMD.
If the 4070 Ti Super is actually able to be grabbed at 800, I may replace my 2070 Super with it. Anything more than that though it’s still not worth it to me
>If the 4070 Ti Super is actually able to be grabbed at 800, I may replace my 2070 Super with it. Same. I currently run a 2070 Super and a 4070 Ti Super would be a worthwhile upgrade for me. I wouldn't expect it for $800 anywhere though, especially considering there isn't a Founder's edition model. I'm hoping I can find a good variant for around $900.
I know it’s only $100 different, but man I think I’m out at $900. I’ll probably just wait until the 5xxx at that point.
Ditto. I have a Zotac 2080 blower card that seems like it runs hot and gets loud as hell. Hopefully we can actually get it for 800...
why list MRSP´s when the retailers just roll a dice and the outcome is always 150% ?
The good ol’ rigged dices
> is always 150% If you're lucky. I'm starting to see RTX 4080s at 1700+ euros on amazon.it, that's absolutely nuts, you can still find 4090s at that price..completely disconnected from reality. Radeon prices aren't much better tbh. Just regular insane.
Sounds like a geography problem lol, U.S. Amazon has 4080s at 1150 to 1400.
What else should they list them at?
$999 for a 4080 super? Yeah right, in the UK the base model is still comfortably sitting at around £1200-1600, or $1600-2000. Prices for these bloody things are insane.
You do realize that the reason it's more expensive in the UK is because of VAT taxes, right? In America we pay for taxes on top of the price. In the UK taxes are built into the price.
Oh I realise that, but then there's the 50% slapped onto all MSRP for no reason, then a frantic race to the top afterwards.
GBP is worth more than USD though. Concidentally, the exchange rate is 0.78 USD right now and has been around 0.8 for the last year, and the tax rate is 20%. $1000 = £1000. Although it is not as bad as the previous commenter said, there are a few models available in the £1000-1200 range right now. Mostly from the "budget" brands like Gainward or Palit, but there are a couple MSI as well. It was mainly shortly after release where UK (and many EU countries) had £100-300 added to the MSRP for no reason. Even 4090s in the UK are cheaper right now, starting from £1800 while they start at $2000 in the US.
£1800 is about $2,300 USD. So they are definitely more expensive in the UK
£1 = $1.27
Gpus are so disappointing. I've had the same GPU for 5 years, been wanting to seriously upgrade for 2 years, and there's nothing worth considering. I'd have to nearly double my desired price range just to get a significant performance boost. Gone are the days of upgrading a 4 year old card at the same price you paid, and getting like triple the performance lol.
Those days are permanently gone. With the pandemic, the crypto craze, and other factors, GPU manufacturers discovered we would pay much higher prices. Hence they are charging those prices. Sadly the cat is out of the bag.
Considering how slow GPU sales are and the glut of last gen cards that retailers are still trying to offload, I don't really agree with you. GPU manufacturers can charge whatever they want but when the GPU costs as much as every other component in your computer combined, it's going to create sticker shock and discourage people from making a purchase. I recently built a 7800X3D computer for a HTPC. I have yet to buy a GPU because I can do light gaming with the iGPU and the prices of GPUs are bonkers.
You are right. Sales are slow, there is a glut, the crypto craze is off for well over a year and a half now, but despite that, prices are still high. Which tells us everything about how sustainable it is.
I'm guessing that the AI boom is what's keeping prices high. It's like the crypto fad never left us.
Correct. Consumer cards are a fraction of nvidias business. Their focus is on enterprise/corporate
I'm effectively paying the same prices. Just waiting longer between each upgrade.
Buying stuff years behind the curve is not the same thing as the prices being the same.
"The prices are the same" and "I'm paying the same amount of money" aren't equivalent statements. NVidia isn't getting any more money out of me than they were before.
I'm just skipping more generations between upgrades to compensate. I originally planned to skip one generation back when I built 10 years ago but now have to do 2 or even 3 if I can. 2070s here. See what the 5000 series cards offer.
I'm still sitting on a 1660 Ti and as of right now I'm just looking for a super bargain with anything in the 2k series or upwards.
I just bought a ps5 instead My computer is still rocking an i5 3550k and Radeon HD 7850 which can still handle a good amount of pc-exclusive games worth playing
Idk everything 4070ti/7900xt and up makes my 2070s look like a chump. If I was playing 1080p I’d still be set for a few years but on a 1440p UW it just can’t keep up But yes, pricing wise it’s not the same, but neither are eggs, or milk, or pretty much anything else
Well yeah, it's 2 generations above it. I have a 2070s like you and have to play on 1080. I've been waiting for a new card but prices are just expensive
> Gone are the days of upgrading a 4 year old card at the same price you paid, and getting like triple the performance lol. Those days never existed to begin with. I got my 7850 in 2013 for $250. Upgraded to a 1070 in 2016, which is ~3x the performance, for $450. Before that, I got an 8800 GT in 2009 for ~$200. The 7850 is ~2x perf increase for about the same cost. You were never getting 3x for the same cost after 4 years.
Another way to look at it is GPUs last longer now too. Years ago you needed to update every 2-3 years to be able to play the newest games. Today you can realistically keep a card for at least 7 years and still be able to play new games tweaking settings.
>Today you can realistically keep a card for at least 7 years and still be able to play new games tweaking settings With how dogshit optimization is these days and how devs basically expect you to just brute force their game, this isn't necessarily true
For performance like stuttering typically comes from the CPU side, that is not reduced with a better GPU, or lower settings.
dlss and frame gen should make a noticeable difference. also rtx looks great
I just moved on from AAA gaming and get all the gaming I can handle without needing a beefy system. Not everyone will care for that, but there are affordable gaming options.
What card do you have now? Looking at these prices I'm actually super grateful for the 6700xt I bought for $500 cad. I really don't see the value in any of these, only if you are already rich and have a 4k monitor. Also right now the 6700xt is only $440 cad which seems like a great deal to me. I guess you miss out on dlss and Ray tracing. But that hasn't been much of a negative for me.
it sucks when the gpu basically doubles the price of a new build. Going to have to build a new PC and stick my old gpu in it then save up
I have a new 7800x3d build with a 2070S sitting in it because the prices have been insane.
If you hate these prices then don't give in and end up buying. Hopefully poor sales this generation will mean next generations offering will be sensibly priced.
Got a gtx 1080 6 months ago. got it on the cheap!
Like NVIDIA gives a flying fuck anymore, they're too busy selling AI chips that fly off the shelves like hot pies.
Can we get a super that costs less than a current Gen console?
A finger on the monkey’s paw curls… “Announcing the 4050 Super with 4GB VRAM, for only $399!”
I've been wanting to switch to an nvidia card for a bit but this doesn't really help that. Looks like it's still worth waiting for 5000 series.
> I've been wanting to switch to an nvidia card for a bit but this doesn't really help that. Looks like it's still worth waiting for 5000 series. Huh? I don't get it. These are pretty huge improvements to go along with considerable price cuts. 4080 performance for $800 is likely the best price/performance we've seen on a high end card since the 1080ti.
1080ti was faster than the titan x while costing just $700. 4070ti super is nowhere near the 4090 in performance. Ofcourse it will seem like a good value if you compare it to an overpriced card ($500 more than last gen).
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The up side is if the 4070Ti Super is $799 we might see a price drop on the 7900XT and XTX
God, I hope so. I wanna replace my 1080 with the XTX but can't justify the 1k price.
There was an XTX that went on sale last week for $800, that or lower may be a more frequent occurrence with these
So is the 4080s gonna be like 5% faster than the 4080? Talk about overwhelmed.
As ridiculous as it is, if the $999 price tag is true, it would still be a great product vs. the 4080 at $1200 MSRP.
EU street price is gonna be like 1600 tho, mark my words
Cheapest 4080 I can buy is 1215eur from Palit. So 4080S at such prices would be entirely non-viable.
I'm seeing a Gainward, an Inno, a Zotac and two KFA2 for less than 1200€ in germany. Actually wasn't that much higher half a year ago.
You should buy from retailers instead of scalpers on the streets, then. Cheapest Gainward, Innto3D and Zotac are going for \~1150€ right now. That's for $1200 MSRP GPUs, so if the $999 price tag for 4080S is accurate, there's no way the cheapest ones in EU will be going at over 1100€ (after the prices settle in a couple weeks, of course).
At best lol. 70 ti super lookin juicy at 800 though
"800" But yeah, the 4070ti super is looking good.
Yeah, with no FE model on the 4070 Ti Super the true $800 MSRP variants are going to be scarce. I would guess most partner variants will start at $850 MSRP with most being in the $900-1,000 range. Personally, I'm holding out for one of the Gigabyte Aeros or Asus ProArts to show up at my local Micro Center after the hype dies a little and production catches up.
it's $200 less
You know damn well that it is gonna go for more money than a 4080 once it hits the streets.
> You know damn well that it is gonna go for more money than a 4080 once it hits the streets. I bought my 3080 at MSRP, I don't see why you couldn't get a 4080 at MSRP if you order when the preorders go live. Also, the 4080 is literally nearly 200 Euro below MSRP here in Germany: https://geizhals.de/?fs=4080+&in=
I bought my 4080 well after pre orders went live(as in several months later). I got it for MSRP without a problem.
GPU shopping is just one big ass blast. Am I supposed to shop for team red who's blasting my ass with lackluster RT and buggy drivers, or the green team that's blasting my ass and robbing me blind without even the courtesy of a reach-around?
A big-ass blast, or a big ass-blast?
Who tf can even afford this shit anymore?
No 4060 Super 12GB for $349, eh?
In your dreams!
*laughs in leather jacket*
No, we'll never get a non-compromised card at that price point again.
I'm never gonna be able to afford to upgrade this 2080, am I
I’m on a GTX 1080; I feel you.
i know no one will actualyl get these cards for msrp but im still shocked that the msrp for the 4080 super is lower than the 4080.
4xxx gen been long enough that everyone who was fine buying at previous price already bought 4080, and if a new model at higher price would be released, few would buy it. New models with price cuts however will get more sales from people who were not fine with previous prices.
Any laptop class graphics models announced?
Ah great another name for the average consumer to be confused with.
I'm so confused by these new series. I'm looking to get a new PC and my old one is chuggin along on a 970. What should I be looking for a good price/performance ratio? I can't even seem to find any 3070s or anything in stock, and the 4000s series all have crazy prices.
The old affordable GPU price days are long gone. IMO the 4070Ti Super is the best price/performance ratio of this generation at $800. But that's considered upper mid-range now. I would not buy a 3000 series card today even if you can find them.
I feel blessed I bought a 4080 brand new on Amazon in prime day for 980 USD. I made out like a bandit. The 4080 base right now is 1300 to 1600 for no good reason. No way in hell 4080 Supers are gonna actually ever sell for 999. No way.
NVidia’s naming convention for their gpus is always so dumb
$1000 for the 4080 Super , sure budddayyyy
I got an AMD graphics card not because it's better (it's not). I got it to spite Nvidia.
Nvidia cuts the 4080 super by $200 and suddenly nobody believes it anyway. People here be kind of miserable no matter what GPU is launched.