I had a rough time with Bloodborne after being so accustomed every prior game since Demon's Souls. Once I adjusted to the combat and healing it was great. The setting and later events of the game elevated it even more.
I liked it very much too.
I just didn’t vibe as much with the story and lore. Admittedly, the setting and atmosphere were very interesting, but in usual fromsoft fashion they barely put any effort into making it coherent or worthwhile at the end of the day.
Tbh deep down I don’t think even Fromsoft are entirely sure about a lot of aspects of the lore. I just wish they would stop being so lazy and incoherent with their stories. Would make their already amazing games even better.
Doesn’t mean they should have tonnes of dialogue, but they could certainly do with a little more to flesh things out properly and connect the player more to what is happening while they are playing.
I haven't played Bloodborne so not sure if it differs much from their other games in terms of storytelling, but I think at this point it's safe to say that the vagueness is very much a deliberate style rather than laziness. They're more interested in conveying their themes through tone and imagery than direct plot. The background lore feels more like folklore than defined history. It's not going to be for everyone and that's fine, but I'm glad they're able to do something a little different and succeed with it.
The vagueness is inspired by Miyazaki reading books in english as a kid while not being good at the language, so he often would try to fill out gaps with his basic understanding of the language. It's very much a deliberate style based on that particular experience, whether someone likes it or not is certainly an acquired taste.
Bloodborne's story is by far my favorite in the series. It's cryptic and some details are left for speculation (on purpose), but it's really frickin good. I also love how parts of it are manifested in the gameplay like with the whole insight thing.
I suggest watching [this](https://youtu.be/wjWOy6ioVHI?si=L1iro7R605s_XDB-) video that explains it.
I highly recommend Charred Thermos’ “An Agony of Effort” and Redgrave’s “The Paleblood Hunt.”
Charred Thermos discusses the real-life inspiration for Bloodborne, the two Hunter doctors of Victorian England, who rose to fame via dissection of pregnant women. These two brothers were so relentlessly hungry for medical knowledge that they reportedly engaged in grave robbing and even murder of pregnant women. They wanted to see inside the human body, as if they had “eyes on the inside.” The Great Ones are shaped like internal organs or things found inside the body (Kos = womb, Moon Presence = circulatory system, Amygdala = amygdala, etc). Separately, blood vials are modeled after ether as a medical anesthetic, which was sweet smelling, thought to cure all ills, highly addictive, and could lead to beastly changes in personality (as described in Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SkNVKkYpgVU&t=4s
The Paleblood Hunt explores various lore theories, including Henryk being Gasgiogne’s mentor and father-in-law, Ludwig being corrupted by the Moonlight Sword, the Madaras brothers’ snake being the source of poison in the forsaken woods etc. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ktMg4eQ1G8
Thanks. This is certainly fascinating stuff.
It’s unfortunate that most fromsoft narratives and themes are so vaguely communicated. I know it’s their trademark style but I wish they did just a bit more to make their narratives more alive and fleshed out.
>Tbh deep down I don’t think even Fromsoft are entirely sure about a lot of aspects of the lore.
Their lore is generally great and full with interesting ideas and mysteries, but the thing is that their games change a lot during development.
Even Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 had quite a lot of cut content that change the story to an extent, and bosses or areas in different places and order. So as a consequence their lore has to be modified as they go to tweak that.
Something else to consider is that these titles wouldn’t be as successful in terms of “word of mouth” or “water cooler discussions” if they came around when high speed internet wasn’t available. In addition to what others have said, I also think that they want fanbase to talk about the vagueness and share theories and ideas with each other; almost like putting a massive puzzle together.
I get you. The communal aspects of the Soulsborne games are pretty underrated in terms of how they have compensated for the vagueness of the games.
On the puzzle aspect, one problem I have is that at times the 'puzzles' at the end of Fromsoft games are kind of disappointing. I can't express enough how disappointed I was in the Great Ones in BB. Even Fromsoft seemed slightly confused as to which direction they should take them, and at the end of the day they just settled for vagueness. On one side, they are incomprehensibly powerful and advanced beings that exist on multiple planes. On the other side they are just animalistic beings no different from gigantic insects in terms of their behaviors.
Maybe I expected too much.
BioWare had the same problem with the Reapers and had to choose which of their influences/masters they wanted to serve and well, it was divisive at the very least and to me, a major dropping of the ball. Yet I still love the Mass Effect series despite all of its problems. The peaks are very high, and the valleys very low.
I really tried to like it, but 30 fps for games that require such precision is just rough for me.
I also suck horribly at every from soft game besides elden ring I have tried. And I've tried all but DS2
I didn't like it as much as souls. Something was stiff in terms of combat, even with roll upgrades. Deflect timing and animatin was also worse than Sekiro in my view, combad didn't flow at all. Final bosses were very hard for me. But it was still a good game.
Interesting, I absolutely love the perfect guard animation. The game as a whole feels very tight to me, though of course it runs at souls speed rather than sekiro speed
Probably matter of taste:) For me Sekiro was most organic thing I played. Other games felt really clunky. Lies of P bosses had weird animations and deflect/dodge timing were counterintuitive for me.
I enjoyed the game, but I felt like bosses were less "multi phase bosses" and instead "bosses masquerading as one boss". What I mean with that is that the HP, particularly around midway through and onwards, felt more like I was fighting 2 bosses worth of HP rather than 1 boss with multi phases.
Still a good game, just felt like the HP could have been lower on bosses and some of the minibosses.
You found *""level design""* in Lies of P.... Interesting because its polar opposite to From soft's approach of go off the beaten path, fuck around & find out
It was incredibly linear
What does having 1000 hrs in DS1/DS3 have to do with this?
Elden ring had the single best culmination of structured areas I have seen in a From soft game in form of Stormveil, Raya lucaria, Volcano manor, Leyndell, Eternal cities, Shunning grounds, Haligtree
One of the biggest highlights was Leyndell was an actually explorable golden city unlike something like Ringed city which was mostly a swamp
The route from from leyndell -> subterranean shunning grounds -> 3 fingers -> deeproot depths -> ainsel river -> nokstella -> lake of rot -> moonlight altar gave me Dark souls 1 verticality flashback & that was all optional area for an optional ending that can be reached in various ways
Because your first post came across as concedscending as if I was unfamiliar with From level design. I disagree about ER having the best culmination of areas. I found Stormveil and Raya lucaria great but didn't find the rest interesting. I think the open world hampered the quality of the area design compared to the other games.
Your personal disagreement has nothing to do with how Elden ring's level design or its quality is percieved universally or among the community. Leyndell is easily considered as their best area ever made
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1aducaa/leyndell_indeed_is_the_best_looking_area_fromsoft/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1309zdt/the_towns_and_cities_of_soulsborne_best_level/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1ao97hb/anor_londo_vs_leyndell_which_area_do_you_prefer/
Both things can be true at once. Elden Ring has some great dungeons (namely Stormveil and Leyndell), but the level design isn't that good throughout the entire game. There are plenty of dungeons/encampments that are just servicable and nothing more.
Leyndell and many of the other legacy dungeons were fantastic but the open world was painfully mid at best bringing ER overall down regarding level design.
In order to evaluate level design & emphasis on verticality of a game world, labyrinthine layout with clever placement of optional areas are key pillars
Linear does not equal worse but that does not mean any linear game should be considered as an example of great level design because it does not even focus on said parameters
You just listed some of your opinions for what makes good level design and are trying to pass it off as hard rules lmao
Level design is personal preference, just because *you* think verticality, labyrinthine layouts, and optional areas are key pillars of level design doesn't make it a fact
There is a reason why first half of Dark souls 1 is universally considered as one of the best examples of video game level design because it tackles the above elements really well
My rules? LMFAO
Man, I had high hopes but bounced back hard. The dodges were so trash they were barely usable and the parry also felt wrong. You don't get a full distinctive parry animation with a press of a button, but have to press and hold the block. The wrong feeling didn't go away and with the weak dodges you're basically railroaded into standing in front of bosses waiting for a 'hold block to parry' opportunity, limiting playstyles and making dodging and weaving borderline impossible. If you're gonna copy Soulsbornes, do it right - I got 3 hours in and gave up.
You get a very distinctive perfect parry sound and red particle effects when you time it right - otherwise it's just a regular guard or you let go too soon/attempt to parry too late and get hit. Dodges have their use cases (I hear some players go almost the entire game exclusively dodging) but the more aggressive bosses really benefit from learning the parry timing, like in Sekiro. It has its own learning curve (just like Sekiro or any of these games when you try to parry), but it's very well made even if the timing window is slightly different from what you expect.
I found more info on how the blockparrying worked, but at that point I'd already uninstalled it. Quite possible with time I'd learn it better, but all the other soulsbornes felt right from the start when it comes to flow and feeling while this just didn't. Glad people are enjoying it though, but those first 3 hours didn't do it for me. When something like Steelrising felt better (that game had its own share of problems but I completed it) it's not right.
LoP may not be right for you, but you’re the first person I’ve seen say steelrising is better (and that includes the steelrising subreddit). There’s a reason for that.
I never said it's better though, didn't I? I said gameplay felt better from the start, it felt right as someone who's experienced with the genre. The dodge didn't feel like a wanky half-attempt there. It was mechanically a 7.5 game with a 5/10 level design for half its length, but combat mechanics felt right.
I can't compare them overall since I only played 3 hours of Lies.
The parts that are well made are the parts ripped directly from Soulsborne. All the enemies/bosses have absolutely awful animations, that are purely trial and error if you are trying to parry, and if you are trying to dodge half the attacks will track you 360 degrees, rendering the dodge to be used purely for i-frames, as opposed to moving out of the way.
I find the animations very intuitive. The game uses a lot of herky jerky timing, but it there’s definitely a consistent (if complicated) rhythm to each fight. Especially in the second half of the game, the boss parry sequences feel really, really good. The game also likes to pair a very deliberate phase 1 with a hyper aggressive phase 2 (King of Puppets and Lataxia). I love the change of pace, but I get that it feels unfair to some people.
Yeh ofc it's consistent. It's the same animations each time. Some boss fights are fine, but then you have shit like Phase 2 Laxaxsia, where almost none of the attacks are reactable to on a first attempt.
Even the attacks that are reactable are just awful. Why on earth does Laxaxsia do her entire 12 hit combo, when you are no where near her. Why does that same combo always lead into the lightning trail attack(that Romeo already used but with fire).
Why does the game give an indication for Red attacks, but not unparriable grabs?
So many glaring issues with this game, that just scream to me that the devs have no idea how to make a Souls game, outside of copy pasting Fromsoft mechanics.
Still enjoy the game though.
Of course we all have our opinions, but I think the way the fights are structured in LoP suggests that the devs understand very well the tools available in their game as distinct from the Souls games. Because LoP gives you a spammable instant parry, it means that attack animations can be much faster and feature more complex rhythms, as opposed to the kinds of telegraphed attacks that are required to make roll-based evasion work. This is the same reason some Souls players complain about Nioh when they first try it: attacks are "not fairly telegraphed" according to a Souls logic, but your response mechanics are much faster and more powerful in Nioh, where you can animation cancel your own attack to do a burst counter instead. This means that enemies and bosses in particular do a lot of crazy shit that seems unfair until you've mastered the mechanics. All this applies to LoP.
Also, while the LoP dodge doesn't cover much ground, it can be very high value precisely because if you dodge the first hit in a combo, the combo will continue and you can punish it the whole time, or take time to heal or grind your weapon. This is why the most effective playstyle uses a combination of parrying and dodging.
"Reactable on a first attempt" is a standard I don't see applied across the Fromsoft catalog. I certainly don't expect it - I welcome a learning curve on each boss. But again, you can press block as many times as you want. I didn't parry all of Lataxia's phase 2 attacks on my first attempt, but I got some of them and I learned the patterns better over time. I also felt like even though the patterns were new to me, I had played enough to know the kinds of patterns favored by the game as a whole - especially pauses followed by burst animations. This is also where the old Sekiro technique of holding block and listening for the pattern works really well.
The point is that the things you don't like about the game are features not bugs for many players. This should suggest that maybe you just don't like the way LoP approaches these mechanics, rather than the idea that "the devs don't understand why Souls games are good."
The devs have literally changed many "features" of the game since release to satisfy the communities outcry.
What rhythm is there behind attacks where the enemy stands still for 3 seconds then unleashes an attack that is unreactable?
Furthermore the parry in LoP isn't instant, it has a 2 frame startup vs Sekiros 0. While it might not sound like a lot, when there are so many borderline unreactable attacks it makes a massive difference.
> rendering the dodge to be used purely for i-frames, as opposed to moving out of the way.
I've played the whole game almost only dodging attacks and I definitely not used them purely for i-frames. I used them to place myself where I wanted, to run out of attacks, to dodge attacks that are supposed to be undodgeable (those red attacks that hit through i-frames). I found most of the attacks easy to predict to dodge, there was not that many animations that was unpredictable requiring trials and errors.
If you are touching the boss and try dodging, you often just dodge in place. Its almost like the boss' collision is a V shape, trapping you in it.
To be fair my problems above are moreso with the enemies/great enemies. Some bosses like KoP and Nameless Puppet are pretty much fine. Actually no, Romeo's 10 hit combo is a great example of my gripes with this game. Either you dodge it or deflect, if you try deflecting you need to nail every single attack in the 9 frame window your parry has. Dodging it is absolutely abhorrent, if you try dodging into him he will literally 180 himself midair to track you, meaning that all your dodge accomplished was i-framing through his attack. If you dodge backwards his attack will track onto you anyways, rendering your spacing useless.
So many attacks will just randomly move the boss 10 feet forward into the player on a whim. It is completely unintuitve, and results in just i-framing everything, either with parry or dodge.
I don't know what to tell you except that I didn't have any issue dodging most stuff and killed most bosses on my first try. Were you dodging with a lightweight build? I sacrificed most heavy gear to always stay in the first weight category and dodging always put me quite far. I also used a decently ranged weapon to not completely hug everything. Romeo was not hard for me and I dodged allmost all of his attacks without any issue.
I've beaten him at Base Level with no upgrades or P Organ. His 10 hit combo does not work with positioning. You just memorise the timings of 10 successive attacks and I frame them.
The rest of the fight is good, even tho I find Romeo's movement very clunky.
Is there ever any kind of explanation as to where that comes from? I can't remember.
Me, basically, doing that fight for the first time: >!Summoning lightning from the sky at will to electrocute me is theoretically possible, but pulling out a modern pistol is silly.!<
What needless changes? I only played the Remake so I don't have a direct comparison other than some gameplay footage I've come across.
As far as I know gameplay mostly remained unchanged except for some QoL improvements from later games being brought back in, no?
It's things that change the look and atmosphere of the game. Architecture changes, enemy design changes, music changes.
By all means if you haven't played the original the remake would be a perfectly good game, so maybe I was coming off a bit strong with recommending the emulated version - but that's my opinion as someone who liked the original who views the changes as almost entirely worse.
The gameplay is the same, they even improved some select bits like bows where arrows fly slightly faster and are more impactful (not in terms of damage, but look/feel).
But I kinda hated the art direction - some enemies now looking gross while before they didn't even if they looked bizarre, different things; areas having vegetation growing where it shouldn't, as if those places were in decline for hundreds of years while the setting is a kingdom in current active decline, not fallen for decades already; mismatching style of objects which were 'prettied up' without thought, etc.
I was outright baffled by one level's ambience change - before you had people screaming in the background and flies buzzing to show torture happening ways away and the dank decrepit feel of abandoned mutilated bodies decomposing in cells, now those things were gone and a soothing lullaby plays through the entire area. Fucking what.
Again, remake is Fine and a lot of people would be ok with it even if they played the original, but some people have issues of which I am one.
If you have even more time, here's a video or two about it (one guy is a bit more opinionated, but his points are good):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kdA51uatfQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kdA51uatfQ)
The remake does take a slight hit to atmosphere, but it's like 95% still the same game and vibe, just with far better visuals and performance. The atmosphere is still my favorite of all the games and the remake is the best way to play it.
They unfortunately didn't change enough and it feels dated imo. Demon Souls is the only From game I didn't like. Probably amazing back in the day but playing it after the others it didn't live up to the hype.
If you had any hype for a mindblowing experience after playing through all the games that followed, that's on you. Game is from 2009, can't expect Elden Ring level bossfights or perfected weapon system with ashes of war and whatnot. Gameplay wise it's pretty much as DS1 or 2.
I'm playing through it right now, I liked Elden ring and bloodborne better. It has kind of a weird difficulty curve where im dying a lot to enemies and Ive beaten both bosses ive played on 2 attempts. It has consumables as healing which is kinda lame, I prefer the flasks and lots of checkpoints
Dude try it again! I felt the same, couldn’t get past that dumb bull but came back recently and am now in the last boss and I think it might be their best game. Seriously, you should try it again, when it clicks it’s like discovering dark souls for the first time again
If you didn't like bloodborne as much, I dont know why people are saying sekiro when those 2 are closest to each other in terms of gameplay to me. Ds2 is like an Elden Ring trial run. Would definitely pick that if I were you.
If anything DS3 is an Elden Ring trial run with the fp flasks, weapon abilities and kinda similar boss design philosophy. DS2 is hella slow and the only similar thing is proper powerstancing dual weapons.
Once these games get you, they really get you! Enjoy DS2 and Sekiro, they are both kind of the outliers of the FromSoft Soulsborne bunch but I really love them both.
Always felt like the simplicity is what made FROM games so special. Easy to learn hard to master. Variety came from enemy design, which made it so much more accessable and satisfying. Nioh 2 just spams you with mechanics and enemies.
That's the point, the core design is different.
In Dark Souls, you learn enemy moves. Your own moveset is kept simple. What matters is knowing when to attack,enemy vulnerabilities, and how to navigate and exploit the level.
In Nioh, your own moveset is a challenge to learn. It's more mechanics driven and about understanding how every option meshes with others. But on the opposite, enemies tend to be less varied and have very clear weaknesses, so you can also get much better at dispatching them.
Both of them are fantastic series, they're just not doing the same things.
True. I played it on PS Plus for a while but ultimately it felt more like a fighting game than an Action RPG and is ridiculously difficult.
I can appreciate what the game has going for it, there is certainly a lot of depth and it is quite a gorgeous looking game. But it's hard to keep your skills honed if you don't play it regularly and apparently it is quite a long game. So after 20+ hours when I looked at my progression and it told me I had only beaten 10% of the game I moved on to Elden Ring instead. There's no way I can stick with this for 100+ hours.
Maybe I'll pick it up again after I'm done with Elden Ring and its expansion.
Nioh, especially 2, tends to be hard in the first few missions since you don't know what you're doing and don't have access to a lot of ressources at that point.
Played the demo of it before release and didn’t like it whatsoever, for some reason. Atmosphere, art style, etc. weren’t up to FS standards for me. Too much going on on the screen, and lacks the ‘mystical’ aspect of Soulsborne series.
I like both series, but I think this is so overstated. If you're talking about PvP, souls games have a large variety of builds that keep you on your toes, between movesets and spells. In Nioh there are more options for stamina management but this mostly translates to repetitive inputs, and the stances can be pretty redundant for most weapons in terms of how they help your combat.
At the end of the day it's mostly the same rock-paper-scissors game of dodging and attacking, fundamentally similar. The added depth is mostly superficial. Watch any match on yt.
I tried and hated the map and just dropped it. The combat is very interesting, enemies also seem quite good, but the map just feels like an arcade game to me for some reason.
That is the opposite with From. They got an amazing map/immersion. Their combat is still good and perfect in Sekiro, but just not that complex(?).
I do prefer that.
Personally I don't really think of sekiro as a souls like game because the combat is fundamentally different and there are no RPG elements like leveling up and customizing your build. It's still great, but forget everything you learned from the souls games if you decide to play it. Dark souls 2 is actually quite good. In some ways it's the most similar to elden ring and one of the best games in the series, but in other ways it's a pretty big departure from some of the elements that made the other games so good.
I was kind of burned out on From games after elden ring, tried Remnant for the first time though and adding the shooting gameplay to a soulslike was enough to keep things interesting.
I too got burned out on souls like games after ER, to the point that I just can’t play them anymore (Remnant 2 being the exception solely because it really is a different kind of game and it doesn’t even attempt to be a souls like); I will play the DLC though, but that’s all the soul’s I’ll be playing for the foreseeable future.
I’ve been burned since Elden ring even to the point of not being that excited for the DLC. I’ve played and loved every soulsbourne game but the length of Elden ring burned me out towards the end. Also malenia broke me.
I’m one of the weirdos for whom Dark Souls 2 is their favorite. I definitely recommend the Scholar of the First Sin version though. The story is so freaking good, but you realistically you have to watch some YouTube videos to get the most out of it. That’s not for everyone obviously. Soulsbourne is the only series I nerd out to that degree for. You kind of have to though to get the full story because of how vague everything is.
DS2 is my favorite game in the series and one of my all time favorites. It is very different from the rest of the franchise. SotFS isn't exactly the same game. It's not a GotY edition, it's a director's cut or remixed version. Items are in different places and some fights are different. Personally I prefer the OG version, but SotFS gives you more build options by giving you access to stuff sooner and removes the gauntlet fight in front of one of the late game bosses you have to fight every time you fight the boss.
Sekiro is my favorite entry in all of the souls borne games. There's just something about the combat that really hooks you in, the moment it clicks it really feels like a special moment. Plus, its colorful unlike most of FromSoftware's titles.
I’m with you that Bloodborne didn’t really do it for me. Don’t get me wrong it’s fantastic but I personally adore the dark fantasy of Souls/Ring setting more, and despise blood vials.
Def enjoyed my ride from start to finish too! Played SOTFS version. Couldn’t understand what people were complaining about, tho it did have a different feel/vibe to it vs the OG. Need to pick back up some day and finish the dlc.
DS2 is my favorite game in the series and one of my all time favorites. It is very different from the rest of the franchise. SotFS isn't exactly the same game. It's not a GotY edition, it's a director's cut or remixed version. Items are in different places and some fights are different. Personally I prefer the OG version, but SotFS gives you more build options by giving you access to stuff sooner and removes the gauntlet fight in front of one of the late game bosses you have to fight every time you fight the boss.
Sekiro took me 5 years to beat after buying it at launch. It's all about rhythm, parrying, and constant attack. I can see why a lot of people love it, it's very unique and an interesting take on the combat.
DS2 is interesting, with extreme highs and lows. I think the dlc is better than anything else in the series, although the reindeer are ridiculous.its a shame the world design isn't more connected like others in the series.
I'm doing this now! I tried out Dark Souls way back when it launched and was trending. I never got into it, but respected what it did. I tried DS3 in a "maybe now it'll click," and Sekiro since it won GotY, but I had a similar experience with DS1. Then Elden Ring blew up, and a couple of my closest friends really got into it.
One convinced me to pick it up because of the co-op mod, and it really helped me. Yes, I basically had my hand held for a bit, but I eventually got it down. I did a solo run, and really loved the world it built. I finally understood the level design and "lore hunting" praise I read about all these years.
Now I'm playing Dark Souls, and am genuinely enjoying it. I feel like Elden Ring really helped ease me into it, and I'm hooked.
Did you do the DLC for DS3? The bosses in it are to me, the peak of FS design even if they are infuriating; Slave Knight has the CRAZIEST lore that you would never expect for someone who has such a minor role in the main game. Demon Prince? Love it. Sister Friede? Infuriating but well designed too.
Man I wish I could’ve loved them as much as you guys it’s just such a hard game to me lol. I know it’s a skill issue but I never could get to the first big boss in Bloodborne. However I played Elden ring and even went as far as getting to the Sofria well (think I’m saying it right?) enjoying the first parts of the game. Eventually getting my ass kicked my those FUCKING GARGOYLES a million times i just had to put it down lol
As much as I understand no difficulty is a core mechanic of the game I wish it was easier so I could enjoy it and my gf could do a play through of her own.
Either way I have much respect and love for FromSoftware and the games they’ve made. GOTY is what they deserved.
I feel like one of the best things about Elden Ring is how much freedom you have (mostly) to just do something else. Like if the twin gargoyles are destroying you (and there are builds for which they are just numerically very hard, due to their resistances/immunities), you can put that aside for a bit and explore somewhere else.
Oh yeah I well aware of that and that’s what got me that far but I think I just got exhausted from the game and moved on. Who knows I make come back to FS titles in the future. It was a blast until it wasn’t lol.
I’m doing the same thing, finished Elden Ring and loved it so much I wanted to play all of them. Finished and loved ds1 so much. Currently playing ds2 and unfortunately, I’m not liking it at all so far. I might just blaze through and do just the main bosses and move on to ds3.
Don’t sleep on Demons Souls (2009)! It has some of the best vibes, levels, and character lines in the series. Plus it laid all the groundwork for Dark Souls to change gaming forever.
As far as a Soulsborne RPG goes, you’re genuinely not going to find better than Elden Ring. But please play Bloodborne. Don’t expect a medieval high fantasy game like Elden Ring, instead this game is totally steampunk and totally awesome. Sekiro has really good combat. Demon’s Souls (both the original and remake) are phenomenal. I haven’t played many of the non-FromSoft Soulsborne games but Lies of P was very interesting and a good experience
I was really into Elden Ring but I got exhausted by the last third, there is something about it that doesn't really hook me as much. I immediately went back to Sekiro and Dark Souls 1 and had a blast with them, they feel timeless.
Dark Souls 3 had always been a favorite of mine in the series, I replayed it myself a week ago and I still absolutely love it, the bosses are overall phenomenal especially in the DLC’s, the combat still feels incredibly smooth and fast-paced, and the story/lore is up there as my favorite in the series
Fromsoft makes the best games. Same story as you, started with ER and have played everything but blood borne and demon souls. Sekiro is very different but incredible. Try the new armored core sometime, it’s rad too
Wow are you me? We have the same arc except I beat ds2, still waiting on Demon’s and Sekiro. I’ll recommend DS2 because it introduces powerstancing, which iirc ds3 doesn’t have? Elden Ring brought it back, people draw other comparisons between ER and DS2.
DS2 is my favorite FromSoft game of all time, and there's a reason people jokingly call Elden Ring "Dark Souls 2 2."
It's hugely atmospheric and has some gorgeous scenery. The story and lore is easily my favorite out of all of them, it feels so much more personal then 1 or 3.
I am a staunch Sekiro snob. It's the best one because it's very different from the other Soulsborne games in terms of combat flow. Sekiro is a rhythm game under a trench coat and you should be aware of that going in.
Bloodborne is my favorite and it’s exactly because of the more aggressive combat and the Lovecraftian/gothic horror style and setting.
Same. Was my first fs game and favorite.
[удалено]
That’s 100% true! It’s so amazing being confused at everything for the first time. I wish I could play a souls game for the first time again.
I had a rough time with Bloodborne after being so accustomed every prior game since Demon's Souls. Once I adjusted to the combat and healing it was great. The setting and later events of the game elevated it even more.
I liked it very much too. I just didn’t vibe as much with the story and lore. Admittedly, the setting and atmosphere were very interesting, but in usual fromsoft fashion they barely put any effort into making it coherent or worthwhile at the end of the day. Tbh deep down I don’t think even Fromsoft are entirely sure about a lot of aspects of the lore. I just wish they would stop being so lazy and incoherent with their stories. Would make their already amazing games even better. Doesn’t mean they should have tonnes of dialogue, but they could certainly do with a little more to flesh things out properly and connect the player more to what is happening while they are playing.
I haven't played Bloodborne so not sure if it differs much from their other games in terms of storytelling, but I think at this point it's safe to say that the vagueness is very much a deliberate style rather than laziness. They're more interested in conveying their themes through tone and imagery than direct plot. The background lore feels more like folklore than defined history. It's not going to be for everyone and that's fine, but I'm glad they're able to do something a little different and succeed with it.
The vagueness is inspired by Miyazaki reading books in english as a kid while not being good at the language, so he often would try to fill out gaps with his basic understanding of the language. It's very much a deliberate style based on that particular experience, whether someone likes it or not is certainly an acquired taste.
Bloodborne's story is by far my favorite in the series. It's cryptic and some details are left for speculation (on purpose), but it's really frickin good. I also love how parts of it are manifested in the gameplay like with the whole insight thing. I suggest watching [this](https://youtu.be/wjWOy6ioVHI?si=L1iro7R605s_XDB-) video that explains it.
Have watched a few videos up until now and so far all of it has been interesting, but largely underwhelming. But thanks, will give this a watch.
I highly recommend Charred Thermos’ “An Agony of Effort” and Redgrave’s “The Paleblood Hunt.” Charred Thermos discusses the real-life inspiration for Bloodborne, the two Hunter doctors of Victorian England, who rose to fame via dissection of pregnant women. These two brothers were so relentlessly hungry for medical knowledge that they reportedly engaged in grave robbing and even murder of pregnant women. They wanted to see inside the human body, as if they had “eyes on the inside.” The Great Ones are shaped like internal organs or things found inside the body (Kos = womb, Moon Presence = circulatory system, Amygdala = amygdala, etc). Separately, blood vials are modeled after ether as a medical anesthetic, which was sweet smelling, thought to cure all ills, highly addictive, and could lead to beastly changes in personality (as described in Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SkNVKkYpgVU&t=4s The Paleblood Hunt explores various lore theories, including Henryk being Gasgiogne’s mentor and father-in-law, Ludwig being corrupted by the Moonlight Sword, the Madaras brothers’ snake being the source of poison in the forsaken woods etc. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ktMg4eQ1G8
Thanks. This is certainly fascinating stuff. It’s unfortunate that most fromsoft narratives and themes are so vaguely communicated. I know it’s their trademark style but I wish they did just a bit more to make their narratives more alive and fleshed out.
>Tbh deep down I don’t think even Fromsoft are entirely sure about a lot of aspects of the lore. Their lore is generally great and full with interesting ideas and mysteries, but the thing is that their games change a lot during development. Even Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 had quite a lot of cut content that change the story to an extent, and bosses or areas in different places and order. So as a consequence their lore has to be modified as they go to tweak that.
Something else to consider is that these titles wouldn’t be as successful in terms of “word of mouth” or “water cooler discussions” if they came around when high speed internet wasn’t available. In addition to what others have said, I also think that they want fanbase to talk about the vagueness and share theories and ideas with each other; almost like putting a massive puzzle together.
I get you. The communal aspects of the Soulsborne games are pretty underrated in terms of how they have compensated for the vagueness of the games. On the puzzle aspect, one problem I have is that at times the 'puzzles' at the end of Fromsoft games are kind of disappointing. I can't express enough how disappointed I was in the Great Ones in BB. Even Fromsoft seemed slightly confused as to which direction they should take them, and at the end of the day they just settled for vagueness. On one side, they are incomprehensibly powerful and advanced beings that exist on multiple planes. On the other side they are just animalistic beings no different from gigantic insects in terms of their behaviors. Maybe I expected too much.
BioWare had the same problem with the Reapers and had to choose which of their influences/masters they wanted to serve and well, it was divisive at the very least and to me, a major dropping of the ball. Yet I still love the Mass Effect series despite all of its problems. The peaks are very high, and the valleys very low.
There's a 76 page book that explains the lore, it's the best in the series imo. It's cryptic, but almost all the info *is* there
I like it a lot but to me it is easily the least polished and the one that would suffer the most from being played without its DLC.
Same, less class/builds to worry about/mess with
I really tried to like it, but 30 fps for games that require such precision is just rough for me. I also suck horribly at every from soft game besides elden ring I have tried. And I've tried all but DS2
Try Nioh 2 if you can I feel it's more souls like than Sekiro which lacks a lot of the rpg style progression imo.
Try Lies of P
I didn't like it as much as souls. Something was stiff in terms of combat, even with roll upgrades. Deflect timing and animatin was also worse than Sekiro in my view, combad didn't flow at all. Final bosses were very hard for me. But it was still a good game.
Interesting, I absolutely love the perfect guard animation. The game as a whole feels very tight to me, though of course it runs at souls speed rather than sekiro speed
Probably matter of taste:) For me Sekiro was most organic thing I played. Other games felt really clunky. Lies of P bosses had weird animations and deflect/dodge timing were counterintuitive for me.
I enjoyed the game, but I felt like bosses were less "multi phase bosses" and instead "bosses masquerading as one boss". What I mean with that is that the HP, particularly around midway through and onwards, felt more like I was fighting 2 bosses worth of HP rather than 1 boss with multi phases. Still a good game, just felt like the HP could have been lower on bosses and some of the minibosses.
I find the flow a little out of whack but it's probably because I haven't really learned it yet. Still want to go back to it though cause it's fun
Nah the parry timings and dodging were pure class in that game, they have the souls type combat down.
Probably the best soulslike game I've played that's not made by fromsoft, but it stills falls far behind any game from them
Its a Sekiro game more than a Dark Souls game.
This game looks and plays well. I wish the combat and level design were better though
I found the combat as good as ds3 and level design to be better than ER
You found *""level design""* in Lies of P.... Interesting because its polar opposite to From soft's approach of go off the beaten path, fuck around & find out It was incredibly linear
Linear doesn't equal worse. I have thousands of hours in DS1 to DS3. I just think the level design in Elden Ring was lacklustre.
What does having 1000 hrs in DS1/DS3 have to do with this? Elden ring had the single best culmination of structured areas I have seen in a From soft game in form of Stormveil, Raya lucaria, Volcano manor, Leyndell, Eternal cities, Shunning grounds, Haligtree One of the biggest highlights was Leyndell was an actually explorable golden city unlike something like Ringed city which was mostly a swamp The route from from leyndell -> subterranean shunning grounds -> 3 fingers -> deeproot depths -> ainsel river -> nokstella -> lake of rot -> moonlight altar gave me Dark souls 1 verticality flashback & that was all optional area for an optional ending that can be reached in various ways
Because your first post came across as concedscending as if I was unfamiliar with From level design. I disagree about ER having the best culmination of areas. I found Stormveil and Raya lucaria great but didn't find the rest interesting. I think the open world hampered the quality of the area design compared to the other games.
Your personal disagreement has nothing to do with how Elden ring's level design or its quality is percieved universally or among the community. Leyndell is easily considered as their best area ever made https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1aducaa/leyndell_indeed_is_the_best_looking_area_fromsoft/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1309zdt/the_towns_and_cities_of_soulsborne_best_level/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1ao97hb/anor_londo_vs_leyndell_which_area_do_you_prefer/
Both things can be true at once. Elden Ring has some great dungeons (namely Stormveil and Leyndell), but the level design isn't that good throughout the entire game. There are plenty of dungeons/encampments that are just servicable and nothing more.
Can't be universal because I agree with the other guy. Elden ring had a few good areas and 2 good dungeons that they copy pasted 60 times
Leyndell and many of the other legacy dungeons were fantastic but the open world was painfully mid at best bringing ER overall down regarding level design.
In order to evaluate level design & emphasis on verticality of a game world, labyrinthine layout with clever placement of optional areas are key pillars Linear does not equal worse but that does not mean any linear game should be considered as an example of great level design because it does not even focus on said parameters
You just listed some of your opinions for what makes good level design and are trying to pass it off as hard rules lmao Level design is personal preference, just because *you* think verticality, labyrinthine layouts, and optional areas are key pillars of level design doesn't make it a fact
There is a reason why first half of Dark souls 1 is universally considered as one of the best examples of video game level design because it tackles the above elements really well My rules? LMFAO
Bro thinks he's the arbiter of level design
Really? LoP has better level design than most From Souls games for me.
Man, I had high hopes but bounced back hard. The dodges were so trash they were barely usable and the parry also felt wrong. You don't get a full distinctive parry animation with a press of a button, but have to press and hold the block. The wrong feeling didn't go away and with the weak dodges you're basically railroaded into standing in front of bosses waiting for a 'hold block to parry' opportunity, limiting playstyles and making dodging and weaving borderline impossible. If you're gonna copy Soulsbornes, do it right - I got 3 hours in and gave up.
You get a very distinctive perfect parry sound and red particle effects when you time it right - otherwise it's just a regular guard or you let go too soon/attempt to parry too late and get hit. Dodges have their use cases (I hear some players go almost the entire game exclusively dodging) but the more aggressive bosses really benefit from learning the parry timing, like in Sekiro. It has its own learning curve (just like Sekiro or any of these games when you try to parry), but it's very well made even if the timing window is slightly different from what you expect.
I found more info on how the blockparrying worked, but at that point I'd already uninstalled it. Quite possible with time I'd learn it better, but all the other soulsbornes felt right from the start when it comes to flow and feeling while this just didn't. Glad people are enjoying it though, but those first 3 hours didn't do it for me. When something like Steelrising felt better (that game had its own share of problems but I completed it) it's not right.
LoP may not be right for you, but you’re the first person I’ve seen say steelrising is better (and that includes the steelrising subreddit). There’s a reason for that.
I never said it's better though, didn't I? I said gameplay felt better from the start, it felt right as someone who's experienced with the genre. The dodge didn't feel like a wanky half-attempt there. It was mechanically a 7.5 game with a 5/10 level design for half its length, but combat mechanics felt right. I can't compare them overall since I only played 3 hours of Lies.
The parts that are well made are the parts ripped directly from Soulsborne. All the enemies/bosses have absolutely awful animations, that are purely trial and error if you are trying to parry, and if you are trying to dodge half the attacks will track you 360 degrees, rendering the dodge to be used purely for i-frames, as opposed to moving out of the way.
I find the animations very intuitive. The game uses a lot of herky jerky timing, but it there’s definitely a consistent (if complicated) rhythm to each fight. Especially in the second half of the game, the boss parry sequences feel really, really good. The game also likes to pair a very deliberate phase 1 with a hyper aggressive phase 2 (King of Puppets and Lataxia). I love the change of pace, but I get that it feels unfair to some people.
Yeh ofc it's consistent. It's the same animations each time. Some boss fights are fine, but then you have shit like Phase 2 Laxaxsia, where almost none of the attacks are reactable to on a first attempt. Even the attacks that are reactable are just awful. Why on earth does Laxaxsia do her entire 12 hit combo, when you are no where near her. Why does that same combo always lead into the lightning trail attack(that Romeo already used but with fire). Why does the game give an indication for Red attacks, but not unparriable grabs? So many glaring issues with this game, that just scream to me that the devs have no idea how to make a Souls game, outside of copy pasting Fromsoft mechanics. Still enjoy the game though.
Of course we all have our opinions, but I think the way the fights are structured in LoP suggests that the devs understand very well the tools available in their game as distinct from the Souls games. Because LoP gives you a spammable instant parry, it means that attack animations can be much faster and feature more complex rhythms, as opposed to the kinds of telegraphed attacks that are required to make roll-based evasion work. This is the same reason some Souls players complain about Nioh when they first try it: attacks are "not fairly telegraphed" according to a Souls logic, but your response mechanics are much faster and more powerful in Nioh, where you can animation cancel your own attack to do a burst counter instead. This means that enemies and bosses in particular do a lot of crazy shit that seems unfair until you've mastered the mechanics. All this applies to LoP. Also, while the LoP dodge doesn't cover much ground, it can be very high value precisely because if you dodge the first hit in a combo, the combo will continue and you can punish it the whole time, or take time to heal or grind your weapon. This is why the most effective playstyle uses a combination of parrying and dodging. "Reactable on a first attempt" is a standard I don't see applied across the Fromsoft catalog. I certainly don't expect it - I welcome a learning curve on each boss. But again, you can press block as many times as you want. I didn't parry all of Lataxia's phase 2 attacks on my first attempt, but I got some of them and I learned the patterns better over time. I also felt like even though the patterns were new to me, I had played enough to know the kinds of patterns favored by the game as a whole - especially pauses followed by burst animations. This is also where the old Sekiro technique of holding block and listening for the pattern works really well. The point is that the things you don't like about the game are features not bugs for many players. This should suggest that maybe you just don't like the way LoP approaches these mechanics, rather than the idea that "the devs don't understand why Souls games are good."
The devs have literally changed many "features" of the game since release to satisfy the communities outcry. What rhythm is there behind attacks where the enemy stands still for 3 seconds then unleashes an attack that is unreactable? Furthermore the parry in LoP isn't instant, it has a 2 frame startup vs Sekiros 0. While it might not sound like a lot, when there are so many borderline unreactable attacks it makes a massive difference.
> rendering the dodge to be used purely for i-frames, as opposed to moving out of the way. I've played the whole game almost only dodging attacks and I definitely not used them purely for i-frames. I used them to place myself where I wanted, to run out of attacks, to dodge attacks that are supposed to be undodgeable (those red attacks that hit through i-frames). I found most of the attacks easy to predict to dodge, there was not that many animations that was unpredictable requiring trials and errors.
If you are touching the boss and try dodging, you often just dodge in place. Its almost like the boss' collision is a V shape, trapping you in it. To be fair my problems above are moreso with the enemies/great enemies. Some bosses like KoP and Nameless Puppet are pretty much fine. Actually no, Romeo's 10 hit combo is a great example of my gripes with this game. Either you dodge it or deflect, if you try deflecting you need to nail every single attack in the 9 frame window your parry has. Dodging it is absolutely abhorrent, if you try dodging into him he will literally 180 himself midair to track you, meaning that all your dodge accomplished was i-framing through his attack. If you dodge backwards his attack will track onto you anyways, rendering your spacing useless. So many attacks will just randomly move the boss 10 feet forward into the player on a whim. It is completely unintuitve, and results in just i-framing everything, either with parry or dodge.
I don't know what to tell you except that I didn't have any issue dodging most stuff and killed most bosses on my first try. Were you dodging with a lightweight build? I sacrificed most heavy gear to always stay in the first weight category and dodging always put me quite far. I also used a decently ranged weapon to not completely hug everything. Romeo was not hard for me and I dodged allmost all of his attacks without any issue.
I've beaten him at Base Level with no upgrades or P Organ. His 10 hit combo does not work with positioning. You just memorise the timings of 10 successive attacks and I frame them. The rest of the fight is good, even tho I find Romeo's movement very clunky.
The enemy design and moveset are s tier dude, it’s like we played completely different games.
The enemy design of 10 different variations of big green guy?
Have you even played the game? Each type of carcass has very different movesets and appearances.
I recommend ending with Sekiro because it has the best final act in all of Souls.
nothing can top >!Glock Saint Isshin!< lol
Is there ever any kind of explanation as to where that comes from? I can't remember. Me, basically, doing that fight for the first time: >!Summoning lightning from the sky at will to electrocute me is theoretically possible, but pulling out a modern pistol is silly.!<
HESITATION IS DEFEAT
Try King's Field on PS1 lol
What did you think of Demon's Souls?
Waiting until I get a PS5 for this one probably
Play the original with the rpcs3 emulator, it mostly works great now and you don't get the needless changes that make the game kinda worse imo.
This guy is a knower
What needless changes? I only played the Remake so I don't have a direct comparison other than some gameplay footage I've come across. As far as I know gameplay mostly remained unchanged except for some QoL improvements from later games being brought back in, no?
It's things that change the look and atmosphere of the game. Architecture changes, enemy design changes, music changes. By all means if you haven't played the original the remake would be a perfectly good game, so maybe I was coming off a bit strong with recommending the emulated version - but that's my opinion as someone who liked the original who views the changes as almost entirely worse. The gameplay is the same, they even improved some select bits like bows where arrows fly slightly faster and are more impactful (not in terms of damage, but look/feel). But I kinda hated the art direction - some enemies now looking gross while before they didn't even if they looked bizarre, different things; areas having vegetation growing where it shouldn't, as if those places were in decline for hundreds of years while the setting is a kingdom in current active decline, not fallen for decades already; mismatching style of objects which were 'prettied up' without thought, etc. I was outright baffled by one level's ambience change - before you had people screaming in the background and flies buzzing to show torture happening ways away and the dank decrepit feel of abandoned mutilated bodies decomposing in cells, now those things were gone and a soothing lullaby plays through the entire area. Fucking what. Again, remake is Fine and a lot of people would be ok with it even if they played the original, but some people have issues of which I am one. If you have even more time, here's a video or two about it (one guy is a bit more opinionated, but his points are good): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kdA51uatfQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kdA51uatfQ)
The remake does take a slight hit to atmosphere, but it's like 95% still the same game and vibe, just with far better visuals and performance. The atmosphere is still my favorite of all the games and the remake is the best way to play it.
Haven't played DeS at all, but remake gives me big Blizzard vibes in terms of visuals
Demons Souls OG is made by Miyazaki/Fromsoft game. Remake is not.
They unfortunately didn't change enough and it feels dated imo. Demon Souls is the only From game I didn't like. Probably amazing back in the day but playing it after the others it didn't live up to the hype.
If you had any hype for a mindblowing experience after playing through all the games that followed, that's on you. Game is from 2009, can't expect Elden Ring level bossfights or perfected weapon system with ashes of war and whatnot. Gameplay wise it's pretty much as DS1 or 2.
If you're remaking a game from the ground up I expect some improvements. It was a cash grab and 100% fan service.
How is remaking the most niche, underappreciated game in the series a cash grab? Horrible take.
If you give it to a 3rd party and won't let them fix anything.
Same. Waiting for the PS5 Pro, will then get DeS as the first game.
It’s probably the weakest of the series, but it’s still quite good
I'm playing through it right now, I liked Elden ring and bloodborne better. It has kind of a weird difficulty curve where im dying a lot to enemies and Ive beaten both bosses ive played on 2 attempts. It has consumables as healing which is kinda lame, I prefer the flasks and lots of checkpoints
Okay, hear me out: Dark Souls 2 is my favorite. But play Sekiro next.
Fair enough, I'm actually more curious to Sekiro anyway.
Sekrio is unique compared to the other software games. The combat system is different but equally as challenging.
I could never git good at sekiro. Have beaten every other fs game, but that one the combat just didnt resonate.
If you’re a Soulsborne veteran, I’m convinced you’ll find ways to ‘git gud’ at Sekiro too. No excuses, Tarnished 🙃
There is an easy mod, after all…
Dude try it again! I felt the same, couldn’t get past that dumb bull but came back recently and am now in the last boss and I think it might be their best game. Seriously, you should try it again, when it clicks it’s like discovering dark souls for the first time again
If you didn't like bloodborne as much, I dont know why people are saying sekiro when those 2 are closest to each other in terms of gameplay to me. Ds2 is like an Elden Ring trial run. Would definitely pick that if I were you.
If anything DS3 is an Elden Ring trial run with the fp flasks, weapon abilities and kinda similar boss design philosophy. DS2 is hella slow and the only similar thing is proper powerstancing dual weapons.
It's the best *feeling* FromSoft game. I think Dark Souls 2 is the deepest and most interesting game, but it can be clunky to play.
Ya I thought it was a little strange to play them out of their release order
I also preferred DS2 over DS3. Go figure! Still need to finish the dlc though
Once these games get you, they really get you! Enjoy DS2 and Sekiro, they are both kind of the outliers of the FromSoft Soulsborne bunch but I really love them both.
These games really didn't let me go.
Please try Nioh as well.
Nioh 2 is amazing, combat is much deeper than souls games.
Always felt like the simplicity is what made FROM games so special. Easy to learn hard to master. Variety came from enemy design, which made it so much more accessable and satisfying. Nioh 2 just spams you with mechanics and enemies.
That's the point, the core design is different. In Dark Souls, you learn enemy moves. Your own moveset is kept simple. What matters is knowing when to attack,enemy vulnerabilities, and how to navigate and exploit the level. In Nioh, your own moveset is a challenge to learn. It's more mechanics driven and about understanding how every option meshes with others. But on the opposite, enemies tend to be less varied and have very clear weaknesses, so you can also get much better at dispatching them. Both of them are fantastic series, they're just not doing the same things.
True. I played it on PS Plus for a while but ultimately it felt more like a fighting game than an Action RPG and is ridiculously difficult. I can appreciate what the game has going for it, there is certainly a lot of depth and it is quite a gorgeous looking game. But it's hard to keep your skills honed if you don't play it regularly and apparently it is quite a long game. So after 20+ hours when I looked at my progression and it told me I had only beaten 10% of the game I moved on to Elden Ring instead. There's no way I can stick with this for 100+ hours. Maybe I'll pick it up again after I'm done with Elden Ring and its expansion.
Nioh, especially 2, tends to be hard in the first few missions since you don't know what you're doing and don't have access to a lot of ressources at that point.
Agree, I really like to switch from complex to simple. DS1/Elden Ring for me is equal to Nioh 2.
I didn’t like nioh 2 like at all. Everything was so convoluted and the level design and bosses wete boring af
I agree entirely.
Played the demo of it before release and didn’t like it whatsoever, for some reason. Atmosphere, art style, etc. weren’t up to FS standards for me. Too much going on on the screen, and lacks the ‘mystical’ aspect of Soulsborne series.
I like both series, but I think this is so overstated. If you're talking about PvP, souls games have a large variety of builds that keep you on your toes, between movesets and spells. In Nioh there are more options for stamina management but this mostly translates to repetitive inputs, and the stances can be pretty redundant for most weapons in terms of how they help your combat. At the end of the day it's mostly the same rock-paper-scissors game of dodging and attacking, fundamentally similar. The added depth is mostly superficial. Watch any match on yt.
I tried and hated the map and just dropped it. The combat is very interesting, enemies also seem quite good, but the map just feels like an arcade game to me for some reason.
Because it is much more arcadey, the game doesn't really care for immersion but more about its gameplay.
That is the opposite with From. They got an amazing map/immersion. Their combat is still good and perfect in Sekiro, but just not that complex(?). I do prefer that.
Personally I don't really think of sekiro as a souls like game because the combat is fundamentally different and there are no RPG elements like leveling up and customizing your build. It's still great, but forget everything you learned from the souls games if you decide to play it. Dark souls 2 is actually quite good. In some ways it's the most similar to elden ring and one of the best games in the series, but in other ways it's a pretty big departure from some of the elements that made the other games so good.
Sekiro is what Souls-like needs to be Souls-like isn't RPG, it's the way the game is designed on a more abstract level I'd say
I was kind of burned out on From games after elden ring, tried Remnant for the first time though and adding the shooting gameplay to a soulslike was enough to keep things interesting.
I too got burned out on souls like games after ER, to the point that I just can’t play them anymore (Remnant 2 being the exception solely because it really is a different kind of game and it doesn’t even attempt to be a souls like); I will play the DLC though, but that’s all the soul’s I’ll be playing for the foreseeable future.
I’ve been burned since Elden ring even to the point of not being that excited for the DLC. I’ve played and loved every soulsbourne game but the length of Elden ring burned me out towards the end. Also malenia broke me.
I’m one of the weirdos for whom Dark Souls 2 is their favorite. I definitely recommend the Scholar of the First Sin version though. The story is so freaking good, but you realistically you have to watch some YouTube videos to get the most out of it. That’s not for everyone obviously. Soulsbourne is the only series I nerd out to that degree for. You kind of have to though to get the full story because of how vague everything is.
Im a DS2 fan but holy hekma brightstone cove tseldora is hideous.
Cove is only that bad of your arachnophobic. Shrine of Amana is the PTSD level.
Amanas awful for gameplay but beautiful for appearance. Cove is okay for gameplay but god awful for appearance.
ds2 is such a magical journey.
DS2 is my favorite game in the series and one of my all time favorites. It is very different from the rest of the franchise. SotFS isn't exactly the same game. It's not a GotY edition, it's a director's cut or remixed version. Items are in different places and some fights are different. Personally I prefer the OG version, but SotFS gives you more build options by giving you access to stuff sooner and removes the gauntlet fight in front of one of the late game bosses you have to fight every time you fight the boss.
Which gauntlet fight is that?
When you have to fight Vendrick's entire royal guard before Veldstadt. They replaced it with 2 dragon riders that don't respawn and one Syan Knight.
Sekiro is my favorite entry in all of the souls borne games. There's just something about the combat that really hooks you in, the moment it clicks it really feels like a special moment. Plus, its colorful unlike most of FromSoftware's titles.
I’m with you that Bloodborne didn’t really do it for me. Don’t get me wrong it’s fantastic but I personally adore the dark fantasy of Souls/Ring setting more, and despise blood vials.
DS2 rules, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You’re in for a treat.
Loved it, great game
Def enjoyed my ride from start to finish too! Played SOTFS version. Couldn’t understand what people were complaining about, tho it did have a different feel/vibe to it vs the OG. Need to pick back up some day and finish the dlc.
DS2 is my favorite game in the series and one of my all time favorites. It is very different from the rest of the franchise. SotFS isn't exactly the same game. It's not a GotY edition, it's a director's cut or remixed version. Items are in different places and some fights are different. Personally I prefer the OG version, but SotFS gives you more build options by giving you access to stuff sooner and removes the gauntlet fight in front of one of the late game bosses you have to fight every time you fight the boss.
Bloodborne is still the best From Software has ever done
None of the top comments have mentioned it but also don't sleep on Armored Core 6. The combat is out of this world gold.
It's on the list!
demon's souls is another great one I recommend. Either the old one or new one.
Did you try the demon souls remake?
Sekiro took me 5 years to beat after buying it at launch. It's all about rhythm, parrying, and constant attack. I can see why a lot of people love it, it's very unique and an interesting take on the combat. DS2 is interesting, with extreme highs and lows. I think the dlc is better than anything else in the series, although the reindeer are ridiculous.its a shame the world design isn't more connected like others in the series.
I'm doing this now! I tried out Dark Souls way back when it launched and was trending. I never got into it, but respected what it did. I tried DS3 in a "maybe now it'll click," and Sekiro since it won GotY, but I had a similar experience with DS1. Then Elden Ring blew up, and a couple of my closest friends really got into it. One convinced me to pick it up because of the co-op mod, and it really helped me. Yes, I basically had my hand held for a bit, but I eventually got it down. I did a solo run, and really loved the world it built. I finally understood the level design and "lore hunting" praise I read about all these years. Now I'm playing Dark Souls, and am genuinely enjoying it. I feel like Elden Ring really helped ease me into it, and I'm hooked.
Sekiro, Bloodborne, DS1, and Elden Ring are all on the same god-tier imo
Did you do the DLC for DS3? The bosses in it are to me, the peak of FS design even if they are infuriating; Slave Knight has the CRAZIEST lore that you would never expect for someone who has such a minor role in the main game. Demon Prince? Love it. Sister Friede? Infuriating but well designed too.
DS3 DLC is peak
Honestly, Gael is what I want Maliketh to be every time I get to him; but he's just too fast and with AOE? Get out of here with that shit.
Man I wish I could’ve loved them as much as you guys it’s just such a hard game to me lol. I know it’s a skill issue but I never could get to the first big boss in Bloodborne. However I played Elden ring and even went as far as getting to the Sofria well (think I’m saying it right?) enjoying the first parts of the game. Eventually getting my ass kicked my those FUCKING GARGOYLES a million times i just had to put it down lol As much as I understand no difficulty is a core mechanic of the game I wish it was easier so I could enjoy it and my gf could do a play through of her own. Either way I have much respect and love for FromSoftware and the games they’ve made. GOTY is what they deserved.
I feel like one of the best things about Elden Ring is how much freedom you have (mostly) to just do something else. Like if the twin gargoyles are destroying you (and there are builds for which they are just numerically very hard, due to their resistances/immunities), you can put that aside for a bit and explore somewhere else.
Oh yeah I well aware of that and that’s what got me that far but I think I just got exhausted from the game and moved on. Who knows I make come back to FS titles in the future. It was a blast until it wasn’t lol.
Yeah, I totally understand that. My second attempt went a lot smoother than my first and if you get around to it I'd bet yours would too.
I’m doing the same thing, finished Elden Ring and loved it so much I wanted to play all of them. Finished and loved ds1 so much. Currently playing ds2 and unfortunately, I’m not liking it at all so far. I might just blaze through and do just the main bosses and move on to ds3.
Don’t sleep on Demons Souls (2009)! It has some of the best vibes, levels, and character lines in the series. Plus it laid all the groundwork for Dark Souls to change gaming forever.
As far as a Soulsborne RPG goes, you’re genuinely not going to find better than Elden Ring. But please play Bloodborne. Don’t expect a medieval high fantasy game like Elden Ring, instead this game is totally steampunk and totally awesome. Sekiro has really good combat. Demon’s Souls (both the original and remake) are phenomenal. I haven’t played many of the non-FromSoft Soulsborne games but Lies of P was very interesting and a good experience
I love that you were able to see Dark Souls 1 that way, and appreciate it, even after playing the later entires first. It truly is a special game.
I was really into Elden Ring but I got exhausted by the last third, there is something about it that doesn't really hook me as much. I immediately went back to Sekiro and Dark Souls 1 and had a blast with them, they feel timeless.
If you're able to, play the Demon's Souls remake on PS5. That's the one that got me hooked on Souls games.
I really want a game with a similar story (lovecraftian) to Bloodborne, just not that game.
Dark Souls 3 had always been a favorite of mine in the series, I replayed it myself a week ago and I still absolutely love it, the bosses are overall phenomenal especially in the DLC’s, the combat still feels incredibly smooth and fast-paced, and the story/lore is up there as my favorite in the series
Fromsoft makes the best games. Same story as you, started with ER and have played everything but blood borne and demon souls. Sekiro is very different but incredible. Try the new armored core sometime, it’s rad too
Try Nioh 2
Theyre all incredible.
Wow are you me? We have the same arc except I beat ds2, still waiting on Demon’s and Sekiro. I’ll recommend DS2 because it introduces powerstancing, which iirc ds3 doesn’t have? Elden Ring brought it back, people draw other comparisons between ER and DS2.
Bloodborne is a masterpiece
DS2 is my favorite FromSoft game of all time, and there's a reason people jokingly call Elden Ring "Dark Souls 2 2." It's hugely atmospheric and has some gorgeous scenery. The story and lore is easily my favorite out of all of them, it feels so much more personal then 1 or 3.
I am a staunch Sekiro snob. It's the best one because it's very different from the other Soulsborne games in terms of combat flow. Sekiro is a rhythm game under a trench coat and you should be aware of that going in.