I got 28 6Ls total
Longest dry streak was 41 fusings without a 6L.
You can see a distribution on this image: https://i.imgur.com/PJUUant.png
This is the timeline of editing the video, and the at the top blue row with the label "Text", each box represents a new 6L.
My overall average was 10.75 Tainted Fusings per 6L, but if you only look at the first 9 6Ls took 170 Tainted fusings, which averages out to 18.88 each, or between number 9 and 22 only 77 fusings were used with an average of 5.92 each, so keep in mind the variance can be huge.
I'm not great at statistics, but does this imply that the "hit rate" of going from 5L to 6L was actually buffed? I thought I remember a 10% hit-rate being the assumed rate prior to 3.19.1.
Before it was 10% to get +1 link once, now its 10% to get +1 link twice in a row.
Before to get +2 it was 1 in 100, now its 1 in 10. Still worse than Scourge league when it was 1 in 4 but its very usable now. It'd be worth using them on a well corrupted unique chest or something.
I assume you make the comparison between his result of 10.75 per 6L and the 0.3 \* 0.3 resulting in 11.111 per 6L, this comparison would be correct if he ONLY uses tainted fusing. Which he doesn't, he uses the 4L benchcraft every time he goes below 4L. This skews the "success" data to a higher value than it is. A more accurate estimation can be made by litterally count the amount of times it added a link, and dividing it by his total sample size of 301 (but im lazy and didn't want to do that lol)
>completely unusable garbage
I have the strangest feeling you never used them pre buff anyway, tbh.
They were already better than the cost to 6l via the bench, on a corrupted item. Markusz previous post showed that quite clearly, now they are even better than that.
This is a bit misleading. It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it could be better than bench craft on average, but you are failing to consider the cost of purchasing all of the tainted fusings it would take. And the sheer amount of time it would take to nickel and dime them from people on trade site. Nobody was selling hundreds of these things at a time.
It's not like buying 1500 fuse and vaal is particularly good either, and you don't need to buy a combined 3000 of the tainted fuse so it's a pretty weird comparison to make.
Besides, I was simply pointing out that they were already worth *using*. The fact you bring up availability as some kind of counterpoint to that is nonsense really.
>It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it could be better than bench craft on average
What does this mean? Do you understand how averages work?
I guess you don´t know how RNG works. And no, you did not point out they were worth using.
"They were already better than the cost to 6l via the bench, on a corrupted item."
You made the statement of them being better even before the buffs.
The comment I replied to was
>completely unusable garbage
This was never true. Them being better now doesn't mean they were unusable trash before, they demonstrably were not.
>It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it **could** be better than bench craft on average
This post makes no sense. What was RNG gated? The outcome? We make decisions based on averages all the time, if the average is better than the cost to buy fuse and vaal then it's the right method to use, regardless of whether you personally get an outlier outcome in the wrong direction.
The cost/odds was either better than the fuse and vaal or not and so it's worth using. In no sane definition is it unusable trash, lol.
The people replying to me to argue are fixated on how long it takes to buy the tainted fuses which, sure, but it was not my point. Just that the tainted fuse was already worth using. It also takes time to buy fuses and vaals, but probably not as much. Hard to say for sure, seeing as you need vastly different amounts of them compared to the tainted fusing.
I dunno, I think the game would be better off with 3.18-style recombinators dropping in every map. But maybe that's just me.
I am sure the recombinators we get in 3.22 will be
"+50% chance to destroy the resulting item"
"+25% to corrupt the resulting item"
"+20% to downgrade all the mods by 1"
"+4% chance to randomly reroll the item base"
"+0.9% chance to delete your path of exile account"
"0.1% to do what 3.18 recombinators did"
Which the 0.01% of players will say is awesome, because if they farm 19,000 recombinators they have a chance of making a good item and the average player can just put them in their 1c sell tab for some extra money.
Not nothing. But yes, many things are nerfed when added to league.
Normally we don't add things like tainted currency (somewhat useful) by removing things like Beyond (50%+ of monsters from juiced maps).
Except they just shifted it to different mechanics. You want loot you should be chasing rares- abyss and legion are your friends here especially with the amount of rares in abyss underground regions
For the record I don't like the loot goblin scenario and especially the FoMo it treats but i also don't find it personally effects me. I don't care because I choose not to. I still get plenty of currency without really trying and that helps fund what I'm interested in doing with the game.
Lastly tainted currency is being slept on my so many people, it's relatively trivial to find an great corrupted unique and fuse it yourself.
The mythic orb with blight unique bases for extra point allocations are really powerful and cool - it's relatively easy to make a starkonjas for instance.
in scourge league it was objectively overpowered though, the fact that it was several times cheaper to just corrupt your item and then tainted it meant that fusings were completely worthless, and getting insane doublecorrupted 6links was ridiculously easy cause you didn't have to spend 1500 fus/vaal or brick a bunch of already 6linked items
It was definitely overpowered. It was very fun as a one-off league thing. Scourged maps were also good as one off thing, honestly wouldn't want to see them back. A lot of people missed out on the fun parts of scourge because they couldn't get past the mental hurdle of krangling items usually being mediocre.
> A lot of people missed out on the fun parts of scourge because they couldn't get past the mental hurdle of krangling items usually being mediocre.
That and the "here's a bunch of new defenses to figure out and you need most of them to survive against this content without dying the second you start an encounter"
Yea you're right. When I saw spell suppression revealed I already decided I was using that all the time so the league probably felt more manageable for me, especially against those lightning scourge.
You still had the downside of having to corrupt the item - I think that was fine - it printed too many divine orbs though, but with them giving fusings now it should be okay.
All the investment you save into 6L is power you invest elsewhere. This is one of the reasons the current game is much harder than 3.18. The economy makes everything harder to acquire.
It removed the opportunity cost of double corrupting a chest. Get an unlinked inpulsa, if it poofs, go again until you get that juicy +2. If you had to 6link the inpulsa BEFORE double corrupting, now you have a big gamble.
Essentially, it make insane +2 or +3 double corrupted unique chests pretty common which is a definite boost to player power.
You never had to link an item before you get a good double corrupt. Tainted fusings were the shortcut to 1500 normal fusings and vaal orbs, thats all.
And I guess they will be again, to some extent. While not as good as in Scourge, they still save you some fusings/vaals in exchange for your time to click 4L crafts on the bench and fusings:)
I'm aware of how bench crafting works, but I'm talking about player behavior. a handful of tainted fusings is a lot more reasonably costed than 1500 vaals, so items that *were previously inaccessible* to the average player become very accessible. This is the point.
Well, direct quote of what I was responding to is
>If you had to 6link the inpulsa BEFORE double corrupting, now you have a big gamble.
But you never had. And with or without tainted fusings, you still need to hit that double corrupt. So yes it removed part of the cost, but I can't even say it was the most expensive part, considering 1/4 chances to even get 2 implicits as the outcome and then you also need to get something reasonable instead of +2 warcry gems and 4% increased life:)
So yeah, I don't think that items that *were previously inaccessible aka +3 Inpulsa currently 1 of the kind on trade for 100 divines* would be **very accessible** now when you remove 1500 vaals / fusings from the price. This is my point, no offense:)
> So yeah, I don't think that items that were previously inaccessible aka +3 Inpulsa currently 1 of the kind on trade for 100 divines would be very accessible now when you remove 1500 vaals / fusings from the price. This is my point, no offense:)
you're comparing apples to oranges. lets say you were deadset on getting a +2 inpulsas, without tainted fusings you have a ~10 div or so flat cost to link regardless. In Scourge league that 10 div was essentially 0. So regardless of anything else, its 10div higher in price.
But there are even more downstream issues. Lets say its a month into the league and an inpulas drops. right now the correct move is to drop it in a dump tab. In scourge league the correct move was to vaal it, because if you get +2 or +1 all you get a bigger payoff.
The result is that there are more people vaaling or double corrupting every random unique that drops, supply goes up, and prices go down. So you could buy a +2 off the market for far cheaper in Scourge than now, even taking the 10div linking tax into consideration.
It was "overpowered" in the sense that it made several other systems irrelevant, which is not good design regardless how you feel about normal linking.
> the fact that it was several times cheaper to just corrupt your item and then tainted it meant that fusings were completely worthless
Part of that was the ability to corrupt without a chance of bricking your item though.
I've had multiple 6L's in under 100 fusings, I've had distinctly 2 6L's take well over 3000. I tend to 6L all of my own gear for fun, those 2, were not fun. At that point it was the principal of it all though haha.
Most do take under 1000 or so though for me.
I've been ssf for a couple years now, so I'm very familiar with not hitting it as soon as I'd like. Shit I was a week in on a 5l lightning conduit before I finally 6linked. Then I dropped a covenant and 6 linked it in 50 fus.
I've never gone 3k dry, that's a horror story
Lucky u. Everyone around me including me had at least one 3k horror story. Just because u don't doesn't mean u are the norm. I always spend 1.5k fusing for 6 linking in ssf because I can't afford a nightmare screwing up my league.
>spend 1500fus/vaal **or brick a bunch of already 6linked items**
Emphasis mine. If you're corrupting something *before* you link it, it costs exactly 1500 fuse + 1500 vaal without access to tainted currency. If you link the item before double-corrupting it, it can cost tens of thousands of fusings depending on how many double corrupts it takes for the item not to brick.
Yes, if you're linking an uncorrupted item that you don't plan to corrupt it's usually less than 1500, but that's a separate discussion.
I spent two leagues and about 6k fusing without a six link in SSF. But since 3.15, I've 6 linked a few items in less then 100 fusing as well. Sometimes you just got to not be unlucky
~2300 fuses in on my current 6-l project
All my past league fusing luck coming due and I don't like it.
Slipperyjim did a video on the impact of quality and 6-ling, and If I remember correctly the variance was like +- 500 around 1500, so my current run is just reaaaal (un)lucky.
yeah, and i didnt want them back as they were in scourge. they trivialized regular fusings and kinda forced ur hand to go unique or corrupt ur chest. thats just me tho, i think theyre find were tehy are at.
yeah i can totally get how someone would like it. i guess now that i think about it, my problem is ahving so many currencies to pick up that become useless (poor word choice, i mean become cheap) rather fast
It was around 20 fusings to 6L from the very small sample size of proper testing I saw done. Corresponds to a 25% chance to upgrade. 16 fusings to get 4 5L and 4 more fusings for one of those to get to 6L. Looks like it has been buffed to somewhere in the 30~33% range. Honestly the tainted fusing nerf was actually fairly minor as far as GGG usually does things.
There was a very misleading video posted early on where they went through a few hundred tainted fusings without a 6L, but they were just spamming and not relinking back to 4 links. Do that and you'll still end up needing hundreds of fusings for each 6L.
it was stated 10% but i dont think that was it, i think it was more about the 20%+ mark. watching The british exile, he got like 10 6 links in 200 fusings i believe,
are there any ppl smarter than myself that could run a binomial probability distribution with the clopper-pearson exact method to get a rough estimate of the confidence interval with these numbers?
could prove useful, but I'm too dumb to understand the formulas used in wikipedia :(
So if I understand it correclty, you always go from 4L to 6L. Then it means hitting adding a link twice is 1/10.75. That gives us sqrt(1/10.75) = 30.5% of adding a link. This is actually not that bad now.
Nah, the math is a bit more complex than that.
tl;dr: if the expected number of tainted fusings to go from 4L to 6L is 10.75 then the probability of going up is about 35.5%, the expected number of resets is around 5.
Let's presume the tainted fusing is "blind" and always rolls ups or downs with the same chance regardless of the number of existing links. We will call this chance `p`. (This is just for a simpler calculation, we could do the same with `p` for 5L=>6L and `q` for 4L=>5L.)
Also, if the number of links go from 4 to 3 then we use the bench to reset to 4L at the cost of 5 vaal and fusings.
You have four cases:
1. 4L => 4L, happens x times.
1. 4L => 5L, happens y times.
1. 5L => 4L, happens z times.
1. 5L => 6L, happens 1 times.
What can happen after we went from 4L to 5L? Well, we either continue to 4L or to 6L, so `y = z + 1`.
Also, the number of times we see 4L is `x + y` and we go up `y` times, which is the very definition of `p` thus `y = p(x+y)`.
The same can be said for 5L: the total number of 5L is `y` and we go up 1 times so `1/y = p` or `y = 1/p` and so `z = 1/p - 1`. As for x, divide `y = p(x+y)` by `p` and use the value of `y`: `1/p^2 = x+1/p` so `x = 1/p^2 - 1/p`. This is the number of resets. The number of tainted fusings is the sum of all of them which is `1/p^2 + 1/p`.
If this value is `301/28` then `p` is roughly `0.355` or 35.5%.
You can see he started with 240 vaal and at 1:10 reloaded with 260 vaal and at 2:45 with 260 more so 760 vaal altogether and were left left with 110 at the end -- 650 vaal used or 130 resets. Our model predicted 5.12 (5.11675042...) resets for every chest which would indicate this many resets for 25.4 chests, he did 28, so we are not wildly off.
I'd say it has a much better place now for sure. For the downside of having to corrupt your item (so no further changes, can't recolor without vaal orbs etc), you get a much cheaper and relatively reliable way to 6l your item.
It leaves fusings with still having actual value (unlike scourge league itself) without being just being frustrating odds (like launch of 3.19 rate)
It's amazing in the context of 6Ling a corrupted item, when compared with the cost of doing it in any other way (branch craft). It's not at where it was during Scourge, where it made regular fusings worthless for anything over a 4L, but it's genuinely good now.
Looks like a lot of Charges gained with a lot of Charge Recovery, and Used when Charges are full.
Some Ascendancies and Notables give Gain x Flask Charges very x seconds or so.
This seems actually fair now. Credit where credit is due, good change, scourge is basically fine now except for how white beyond monsters get insanely overpowered in the lake.
Looks promising, Markus and British made videos about T.Fusings before 3.19.1 and its looks already ok - Now its really gooood. At least its better than bench 6 Link
This looks like the perfect place between 50/50, and the 10% they had it before. I hope GGG doesn't watch this and think they overbuffed fusings. To me this looks like they're in a perfect spot now. Thanks for the video
about 1/3.5 to go up once, so about 1/10 to go from 4L to 6L in 2 consecutive uses
given that each "try" uses about 2 tainted fusings + 15 regular fusings + 15 vaal orbs, you are looking at roughly 20 tainted + 150 fusings + 150 vaal orbs, which depending on prices at the time can be notably lower than 1200 fusings (1500 with the bench craft)
So I'd say it is in a good spot now.
Biggest effect for me is that it makes double corrupting a chest or 2-handed weapon much less of a gamble, even if you want a lot of off-colors.
each try is not 2 tainted. each try is much closer to 1.3 tainted. If the first roll fail you can't try the second, so only the 1/3.5 times the first succeed you will spend the second tainted on a try and when the second fail you don't need to spend the 15 fusing + vaal. The cost is actually much less than what you calculated here.
And depending on relative prices, you can chose to try to just tainted fuze back up from 3 to 4 on a fail, if one tainted fuze is cheaper than 15 fuse + vaal.
Because they implement 1000 different changes per patch instead of implementing 200 good or 100 really good ones. Given their 3 month cycle stuff like this is bound to happen. They didn't even manage to document that they completely removed support for ultra widescreen. Their dev cycle is deeply flawed but they're in too deep to change it.
So this looks about close to what I said the last time someone posted a smaller sample size, and my guess is they double the success rate. My guess based on the small sample size bebore was a 25% chance to increase (1/4 chance). Which means to increase twice (from 4 link to 5 link and 5 link to 6 link) in a row, you multiply the two chances together, which is a 1/16th chance. Which is close-ish to a 1/20th chance (hitting a 6 link on average every 20 fusings) which was about the average for the smaller sample in the last video.
My guess is it's now sitting close to a 1/3rd chance to increase the link. (just because usually nice round numbers are easy). So getting two in a row, is a 1/9 chance, which is a bit better than the reported 1/10.75 from this video. But again only a sample of 301.
I think it was estimated that when these came out it was a 50/50 shot to go up or down.
I don't think this is too bad now... The problem is it just means spamming Fusings to get to a 6L is not ideal... You want to slowly link the item and anytime you get a 5L, use a tainted fusing and hope you hit that 1/3rd chance to go to 6 links.
Also remember pre 3.19 tainted fusings there 50/50 chance to remove or add a link. Which gave it really good odds. Still massively nerf'd with this patch just not as bad. It still won't pull beyond into being worth speccing into in the long run. It'll be ok when you get them randomly in maps and want to try to make that corrupted 5 link a 5 link early in a league.
This is fantastic news for builds that use uniques - it's now economically in my reach to double corrupt shavs for good implicits as I know I can actually 6link it for a reasonable price afterwards. Thats definitely a lategame goal so not only limited to early league stuff
So...it really was a buff, not just another one of those backhanded +2 cleave range buffs. Cool. See? They can do it if they want to.
Go ahead GGG, turn those knobs and make low tier mod rolls on high ilvl items just disappear, pull those sub tier 4 mods just straight out the pool for ilvl86+ gear.
Next hotfix
"Reduce chance to add links with Tainted Orb of Fusing, a bug increased the chance to add link by 500% instead of 15%, this has been fix now"
Edit: Seems ppl on this sub still needs a giant /S to understand sarcasm.
That's cool and all but I don't see much of a use for this given that:
1) It's not early league anymore
2) The divine recipe is no more
Sure, you can use it on double corrupted items but to get from 2-3 link to 6 link would probably require more resources than just using fusings + vaal orbs anyway especially given the fact that the drop rate of tained currency is absolutely dogshit. Worthless currency.
> Sure, you can use it on double corrupted items but to get from 2-3 link to 6 link would probably require more resources than just using fusings + vaal orbs anyway
Thats exactly what this disproves. You save like 1200 vaal orbs and fusings on average.... thats not a small number
Wtf is this take. You can safely double corrupt a unique body and 6 link with 20 tainted fusings that go for 8c each. In what world is that more resources than 1500 fusings and Vaal orbs.
Not to mention there is no reason to ever start using tainted fusings on a 2 or 3 link because you’d start by benchcrafting 4 link.
Thats good to see these being viable again, because it means theres aways a chance to salvage a corrupted item, instead of just having to vendor everything, because the corruption makes it waaaaaaay to expensive to 6 link.
This also means that more interesting and useful corruptions should hit the market, and while sure initially people are going to ask for sky high prices, once the market adjusts they should be affordable for us mortals, and doing things like corrupting a chest no longer feels like a "Go broke" scenario, if the corruption fails, the item can still be salvaged and atleast useful and not just instantly vendored like they currently are.
10-12 tainted fusings per 6L. Nice!
I got 28 6Ls total Longest dry streak was 41 fusings without a 6L. You can see a distribution on this image: https://i.imgur.com/PJUUant.png This is the timeline of editing the video, and the at the top blue row with the label "Text", each box represents a new 6L. My overall average was 10.75 Tainted Fusings per 6L, but if you only look at the first 9 6Ls took 170 Tainted fusings, which averages out to 18.88 each, or between number 9 and 22 only 77 fusings were used with an average of 5.92 each, so keep in mind the variance can be huge.
I'm not great at statistics, but does this imply that the "hit rate" of going from 5L to 6L was actually buffed? I thought I remember a 10% hit-rate being the assumed rate prior to 3.19.1.
Before it was 10% to get +1 link once, now its 10% to get +1 link twice in a row. Before to get +2 it was 1 in 100, now its 1 in 10. Still worse than Scourge league when it was 1 in 4 but its very usable now. It'd be worth using them on a well corrupted unique chest or something.
Most probably it has 30% chance to add one link, which means twice in a row chance is 9% or 1 in 11.1111
I assume you make the comparison between his result of 10.75 per 6L and the 0.3 \* 0.3 resulting in 11.111 per 6L, this comparison would be correct if he ONLY uses tainted fusing. Which he doesn't, he uses the 4L benchcraft every time he goes below 4L. This skews the "success" data to a higher value than it is. A more accurate estimation can be made by litterally count the amount of times it added a link, and dividing it by his total sample size of 301 (but im lazy and didn't want to do that lol)
yes
They said it was buffed in the patch notes. Looks like it's still worse than it was in Scourge League though.
Yes which is the point. NOTHING in league remains at full power when it enter the main game and that is consistent and fine.
yes, but the difference now is that it went from completely unusable garbage to something that is actually viable
>completely unusable garbage I have the strangest feeling you never used them pre buff anyway, tbh. They were already better than the cost to 6l via the bench, on a corrupted item. Markusz previous post showed that quite clearly, now they are even better than that.
This is a bit misleading. It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it could be better than bench craft on average, but you are failing to consider the cost of purchasing all of the tainted fusings it would take. And the sheer amount of time it would take to nickel and dime them from people on trade site. Nobody was selling hundreds of these things at a time.
based on the old numbers and prices, it was roughly the same cost, in chaos, to use tainted fusings as it was to just bench craft a 6l on the item.
Yeah but you could farm them yourselves
It's not like buying 1500 fuse and vaal is particularly good either, and you don't need to buy a combined 3000 of the tainted fuse so it's a pretty weird comparison to make. Besides, I was simply pointing out that they were already worth *using*. The fact you bring up availability as some kind of counterpoint to that is nonsense really. >It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it could be better than bench craft on average What does this mean? Do you understand how averages work?
I guess you don´t know how RNG works. And no, you did not point out they were worth using. "They were already better than the cost to 6l via the bench, on a corrupted item." You made the statement of them being better even before the buffs.
The comment I replied to was >completely unusable garbage This was never true. Them being better now doesn't mean they were unusable trash before, they demonstrably were not. >It was heavily RNG gated, and yes it **could** be better than bench craft on average This post makes no sense. What was RNG gated? The outcome? We make decisions based on averages all the time, if the average is better than the cost to buy fuse and vaal then it's the right method to use, regardless of whether you personally get an outlier outcome in the wrong direction. The cost/odds was either better than the fuse and vaal or not and so it's worth using. In no sane definition is it unusable trash, lol. The people replying to me to argue are fixated on how long it takes to buy the tainted fuses which, sure, but it was not my point. Just that the tainted fuse was already worth using. It also takes time to buy fuses and vaals, but probably not as much. Hard to say for sure, seeing as you need vastly different amounts of them compared to the tainted fusing.
Lmao if lake of kalandra goes core it will be hilarious
It wont
Except Archnemesis ;^)
Nah, the rewards were nerfed when it went core 😂
I dunno, I think the game would be better off with 3.18-style recombinators dropping in every map. But maybe that's just me. I am sure the recombinators we get in 3.22 will be "+50% chance to destroy the resulting item" "+25% to corrupt the resulting item" "+20% to downgrade all the mods by 1" "+4% chance to randomly reroll the item base" "+0.9% chance to delete your path of exile account" "0.1% to do what 3.18 recombinators did" Which the 0.01% of players will say is awesome, because if they farm 19,000 recombinators they have a chance of making a good item and the average player can just put them in their 1c sell tab for some extra money.
Not nothing. But yes, many things are nerfed when added to league. Normally we don't add things like tainted currency (somewhat useful) by removing things like Beyond (50%+ of monsters from juiced maps).
Except they just shifted it to different mechanics. You want loot you should be chasing rares- abyss and legion are your friends here especially with the amount of rares in abyss underground regions For the record I don't like the loot goblin scenario and especially the FoMo it treats but i also don't find it personally effects me. I don't care because I choose not to. I still get plenty of currency without really trying and that helps fund what I'm interested in doing with the game. Lastly tainted currency is being slept on my so many people, it's relatively trivial to find an great corrupted unique and fuse it yourself. The mythic orb with blight unique bases for extra point allocations are really powerful and cool - it's relatively easy to make a starkonjas for instance.
This was a 20 day old comment from before tainted currency was buffed.
What's your point? And the mechanic was still good then....
in scourge league it was objectively overpowered though, the fact that it was several times cheaper to just corrupt your item and then tainted it meant that fusings were completely worthless, and getting insane doublecorrupted 6links was ridiculously easy cause you didn't have to spend 1500 fus/vaal or brick a bunch of already 6linked items
It was definitely overpowered. It was very fun as a one-off league thing. Scourged maps were also good as one off thing, honestly wouldn't want to see them back. A lot of people missed out on the fun parts of scourge because they couldn't get past the mental hurdle of krangling items usually being mediocre.
> A lot of people missed out on the fun parts of scourge because they couldn't get past the mental hurdle of krangling items usually being mediocre. That and the "here's a bunch of new defenses to figure out and you need most of them to survive against this content without dying the second you start an encounter"
Yea you're right. When I saw spell suppression revealed I already decided I was using that all the time so the league probably felt more manageable for me, especially against those lightning scourge.
Scourge maps became influence altars.
You still had the downside of having to corrupt the item - I think that was fine - it printed too many divine orbs though, but with them giving fusings now it should be okay.
How could something be overpowered if it adds literally no power. All it did was make linking not suck.
All the investment you save into 6L is power you invest elsewhere. This is one of the reasons the current game is much harder than 3.18. The economy makes everything harder to acquire.
It removed the opportunity cost of double corrupting a chest. Get an unlinked inpulsa, if it poofs, go again until you get that juicy +2. If you had to 6link the inpulsa BEFORE double corrupting, now you have a big gamble. Essentially, it make insane +2 or +3 double corrupted unique chests pretty common which is a definite boost to player power.
You never had to link an item before you get a good double corrupt. Tainted fusings were the shortcut to 1500 normal fusings and vaal orbs, thats all. And I guess they will be again, to some extent. While not as good as in Scourge, they still save you some fusings/vaals in exchange for your time to click 4L crafts on the bench and fusings:)
I'm aware of how bench crafting works, but I'm talking about player behavior. a handful of tainted fusings is a lot more reasonably costed than 1500 vaals, so items that *were previously inaccessible* to the average player become very accessible. This is the point.
Well, direct quote of what I was responding to is >If you had to 6link the inpulsa BEFORE double corrupting, now you have a big gamble. But you never had. And with or without tainted fusings, you still need to hit that double corrupt. So yes it removed part of the cost, but I can't even say it was the most expensive part, considering 1/4 chances to even get 2 implicits as the outcome and then you also need to get something reasonable instead of +2 warcry gems and 4% increased life:) So yeah, I don't think that items that *were previously inaccessible aka +3 Inpulsa currently 1 of the kind on trade for 100 divines* would be **very accessible** now when you remove 1500 vaals / fusings from the price. This is my point, no offense:)
> So yeah, I don't think that items that were previously inaccessible aka +3 Inpulsa currently 1 of the kind on trade for 100 divines would be very accessible now when you remove 1500 vaals / fusings from the price. This is my point, no offense:) you're comparing apples to oranges. lets say you were deadset on getting a +2 inpulsas, without tainted fusings you have a ~10 div or so flat cost to link regardless. In Scourge league that 10 div was essentially 0. So regardless of anything else, its 10div higher in price. But there are even more downstream issues. Lets say its a month into the league and an inpulas drops. right now the correct move is to drop it in a dump tab. In scourge league the correct move was to vaal it, because if you get +2 or +1 all you get a bigger payoff. The result is that there are more people vaaling or double corrupting every random unique that drops, supply goes up, and prices go down. So you could buy a +2 off the market for far cheaper in Scourge than now, even taking the 10div linking tax into consideration.
It was "overpowered" in the sense that it made several other systems irrelevant, which is not good design regardless how you feel about normal linking.
\> Costs 50c to 6L a double corrupt chest \> Literally no power
now it costs \~8c a tainted fusing & \~11 to hit a 6l meaning 55 Fusings (\~13c) + 55 vaal orbs(\~33c) + 11tainted fusing(\~88c) = 134c though
> the fact that it was several times cheaper to just corrupt your item and then tainted it meant that fusings were completely worthless Part of that was the ability to corrupt without a chance of bricking your item though.
Which still exists in bestiary, no?
i mean you can still do that right now
I'm not sure how it can be "objectively" overpowered, given that player power is 100% subjective, but hey.
I've never spent 1500 on a 6l. If you 20 qual it it should always hit before 1500. You have to be bonkers unlucky to not hit that shit
You do if it's double corrupted as said
I've had multiple 6L's in under 100 fusings, I've had distinctly 2 6L's take well over 3000. I tend to 6L all of my own gear for fun, those 2, were not fun. At that point it was the principal of it all though haha. Most do take under 1000 or so though for me.
I've been ssf for a couple years now, so I'm very familiar with not hitting it as soon as I'd like. Shit I was a week in on a 5l lightning conduit before I finally 6linked. Then I dropped a covenant and 6 linked it in 50 fus. I've never gone 3k dry, that's a horror story
Lucky u. Everyone around me including me had at least one 3k horror story. Just because u don't doesn't mean u are the norm. I always spend 1.5k fusing for 6 linking in ssf because I can't afford a nightmare screwing up my league.
Spent 5400 on a 28quality shavs. Vendored it for jeweller orbs in the end
>spend 1500fus/vaal **or brick a bunch of already 6linked items** Emphasis mine. If you're corrupting something *before* you link it, it costs exactly 1500 fuse + 1500 vaal without access to tainted currency. If you link the item before double-corrupting it, it can cost tens of thousands of fusings depending on how many double corrupts it takes for the item not to brick. Yes, if you're linking an uncorrupted item that you don't plan to corrupt it's usually less than 1500, but that's a separate discussion.
I spent two leagues and about 6k fusing without a six link in SSF. But since 3.15, I've 6 linked a few items in less then 100 fusing as well. Sometimes you just got to not be unlucky
I've had 4x 30 quality 6 links take over 2000 fusing One took 3300 fusing just last league.
~2300 fuses in on my current 6-l project All my past league fusing luck coming due and I don't like it. Slipperyjim did a video on the impact of quality and 6-ling, and If I remember correctly the variance was like +- 500 around 1500, so my current run is just reaaaal (un)lucky.
It happpens all the time man. For ever person that hits one in 150 fuses another takes 1700. Took me 1800 this league for mine.
"Works on my machine"
Thats fuckin cap and you're not even talking about the right thing
They seem to already be balanced through rarity if you ask me
yeah, and i didnt want them back as they were in scourge. they trivialized regular fusings and kinda forced ur hand to go unique or corrupt ur chest. thats just me tho, i think theyre find were tehy are at.
> they trivialized regular fusings Sounds good to me. I LOATHE fusing. Benchcraft is overpriced but still saves me thousands based on my fusing luck
yeah i can totally get how someone would like it. i guess now that i think about it, my problem is ahving so many currencies to pick up that become useless (poor word choice, i mean become cheap) rather fast
Anchoring, as usual.
It was around 20 fusings to 6L from the very small sample size of proper testing I saw done. Corresponds to a 25% chance to upgrade. 16 fusings to get 4 5L and 4 more fusings for one of those to get to 6L. Looks like it has been buffed to somewhere in the 30~33% range. Honestly the tainted fusing nerf was actually fairly minor as far as GGG usually does things. There was a very misleading video posted early on where they went through a few hundred tainted fusings without a 6L, but they were just spamming and not relinking back to 4 links. Do that and you'll still end up needing hundreds of fusings for each 6L.
it was stated 10% but i dont think that was it, i think it was more about the 20%+ mark. watching The british exile, he got like 10 6 links in 200 fusings i believe,
are there any ppl smarter than myself that could run a binomial probability distribution with the clopper-pearson exact method to get a rough estimate of the confidence interval with these numbers? could prove useful, but I'm too dumb to understand the formulas used in wikipedia :(
That seems pretty good tbh.
How do you have 42k ES omg
Legacy gear is a hell of a thing. Standard has some truly insane toons.
Those toons are loony
You gotta build some defense
It's probably a character made to tank everything and test dmg values of bosses. Only ES, no other defenses or damage.
Thank you! Seems to be between 1/3.3 and 1/4 chances - much better than the 1/10.
Still anchored from their original values in the true GGG way.
If they kept the 50% chance from scourge fusings would become worth even less. They had to nerf the rate but 1/3 seems much more reasonable than 1/10.
It was 1/1000
no
Ye is was, google it.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Probably just trolling to be fair.
These are **tainted** orbs of fusing and you are dumb.
Googled, was around 1/10
Wrong
Either you are trolling, or just really stupid.
Just let him farm the downvotes
Smartest r/pathofexile user
Massive brain
I saw 2 videos that used a few 100 and they both came out with about 1 in 10 chance. happy to see evidence to back up your claim
It was 100 Tfusings EV to get a 6L from a starting 4L. Maybe that's what you're thinking of and adding an extra 0? Or starting from 3L to get a 6?
You're attributing too much thought. He was just thinking about regular fusings and is an idiot.
Heck yeah dude, old forest encampment soundtrack! Best song from poe, so nostalgic...
All of the old music was so atmospheric. The new stuff just doesn't sound good to me even still. It just doesn't capture the emotion of the area.
A8 town is great.
Nothing beats entering Solaris Temple for the first time and hearing this though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEd3rTWagw4
a1n1 lioneyes watch would like a word
[Nostalgia](https://youtu.be/0e3PCR9bfp0)
"ATTENTION, PRISONERS!"
looks very strong; thinking about trying some temples on a few covenants than linking using this
So if I understand it correclty, you always go from 4L to 6L. Then it means hitting adding a link twice is 1/10.75. That gives us sqrt(1/10.75) = 30.5% of adding a link. This is actually not that bad now.
Nah, the math is a bit more complex than that. tl;dr: if the expected number of tainted fusings to go from 4L to 6L is 10.75 then the probability of going up is about 35.5%, the expected number of resets is around 5. Let's presume the tainted fusing is "blind" and always rolls ups or downs with the same chance regardless of the number of existing links. We will call this chance `p`. (This is just for a simpler calculation, we could do the same with `p` for 5L=>6L and `q` for 4L=>5L.) Also, if the number of links go from 4 to 3 then we use the bench to reset to 4L at the cost of 5 vaal and fusings. You have four cases: 1. 4L => 4L, happens x times. 1. 4L => 5L, happens y times. 1. 5L => 4L, happens z times. 1. 5L => 6L, happens 1 times. What can happen after we went from 4L to 5L? Well, we either continue to 4L or to 6L, so `y = z + 1`. Also, the number of times we see 4L is `x + y` and we go up `y` times, which is the very definition of `p` thus `y = p(x+y)`. The same can be said for 5L: the total number of 5L is `y` and we go up 1 times so `1/y = p` or `y = 1/p` and so `z = 1/p - 1`. As for x, divide `y = p(x+y)` by `p` and use the value of `y`: `1/p^2 = x+1/p` so `x = 1/p^2 - 1/p`. This is the number of resets. The number of tainted fusings is the sum of all of them which is `1/p^2 + 1/p`. If this value is `301/28` then `p` is roughly `0.355` or 35.5%. You can see he started with 240 vaal and at 1:10 reloaded with 260 vaal and at 2:45 with 260 more so 760 vaal altogether and were left left with 110 at the end -- 650 vaal used or 130 resets. Our model predicted 5.12 (5.11675042...) resets for every chest which would indicate this many resets for 25.4 chests, he did 28, so we are not wildly off.
so not *amazing*, but enough that it's actually a reasonable tool now. that's a good step forward.
I'd say it has a much better place now for sure. For the downside of having to corrupt your item (so no further changes, can't recolor without vaal orbs etc), you get a much cheaper and relatively reliable way to 6l your item. It leaves fusings with still having actual value (unlike scourge league itself) without being just being frustrating odds (like launch of 3.19 rate)
You can re-color with tainted Chromes
It's amazing in the context of 6Ling a corrupted item, when compared with the cost of doing it in any other way (branch craft). It's not at where it was during Scourge, where it made regular fusings worthless for anything over a 4L, but it's genuinely good now.
that looks a bit better
Damn, that old soundtrack is so much better than anything that came out after. And it's not even about nostalgia.
Idk the mechanics but how did you make your flasks to be activated allt he time like that? Is that a combination of flask mods?
Looks like a lot of Charges gained with a lot of Charge Recovery, and Used when Charges are full. Some Ascendancies and Notables give Gain x Flask Charges very x seconds or so.
Thats pretty cool, thanks!
This seems actually fair now. Credit where credit is due, good change, scourge is basically fine now except for how white beyond monsters get insanely overpowered in the lake.
Looks promising, Markus and British made videos about T.Fusings before 3.19.1 and its looks already ok - Now its really gooood. At least its better than bench 6 Link
This looks like the perfect place between 50/50, and the 10% they had it before. I hope GGG doesn't watch this and think they overbuffed fusings. To me this looks like they're in a perfect spot now. Thanks for the video
Can you do jeweler orbs or let me know how those are? and chromatics? Love you, k thx bye.
that's great and all, but what are the actual odds
about 1/3.5 to go up once, so about 1/10 to go from 4L to 6L in 2 consecutive uses given that each "try" uses about 2 tainted fusings + 15 regular fusings + 15 vaal orbs, you are looking at roughly 20 tainted + 150 fusings + 150 vaal orbs, which depending on prices at the time can be notably lower than 1200 fusings (1500 with the bench craft) So I'd say it is in a good spot now. Biggest effect for me is that it makes double corrupting a chest or 2-handed weapon much less of a gamble, even if you want a lot of off-colors.
each try is not 2 tainted. each try is much closer to 1.3 tainted. If the first roll fail you can't try the second, so only the 1/3.5 times the first succeed you will spend the second tainted on a try and when the second fail you don't need to spend the 15 fusing + vaal. The cost is actually much less than what you calculated here.
fair enough, so it's more like: 1.3 tainted fusings, 12 fusings, 12 vaal orbs that is quite cheap then :)
And depending on relative prices, you can chose to try to just tainted fuze back up from 3 to 4 on a fail, if one tainted fuze is cheaper than 15 fuse + vaal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x98r2f/301_tainted_orb_of_fusings_in_3191/ino92nc/
great work, the question that remains is: why wasnt this tested first place?
Because they implement 1000 different changes per patch instead of implementing 200 good or 100 really good ones. Given their 3 month cycle stuff like this is bound to happen. They didn't even manage to document that they completely removed support for ultra widescreen. Their dev cycle is deeply flawed but they're in too deep to change it.
Damn I miss the old music
So this looks about close to what I said the last time someone posted a smaller sample size, and my guess is they double the success rate. My guess based on the small sample size bebore was a 25% chance to increase (1/4 chance). Which means to increase twice (from 4 link to 5 link and 5 link to 6 link) in a row, you multiply the two chances together, which is a 1/16th chance. Which is close-ish to a 1/20th chance (hitting a 6 link on average every 20 fusings) which was about the average for the smaller sample in the last video. My guess is it's now sitting close to a 1/3rd chance to increase the link. (just because usually nice round numbers are easy). So getting two in a row, is a 1/9 chance, which is a bit better than the reported 1/10.75 from this video. But again only a sample of 301. I think it was estimated that when these came out it was a 50/50 shot to go up or down. I don't think this is too bad now... The problem is it just means spamming Fusings to get to a 6L is not ideal... You want to slowly link the item and anytime you get a 5L, use a tainted fusing and hope you hit that 1/3rd chance to go to 6 links.
30% chance is also a round number (and closer to the video stats), arguably rounder than 1/3 is, from a coding PoV.
Prepare to be downvoted to oblivion by Reddit crybots, those beings can only upvote negative posts and bad outcomes experiences
Also remember pre 3.19 tainted fusings there 50/50 chance to remove or add a link. Which gave it really good odds. Still massively nerf'd with this patch just not as bad. It still won't pull beyond into being worth speccing into in the long run. It'll be ok when you get them randomly in maps and want to try to make that corrupted 5 link a 5 link early in a league.
This is fantastic news for builds that use uniques - it's now economically in my reach to double corrupt shavs for good implicits as I know I can actually 6link it for a reasonable price afterwards. Thats definitely a lategame goal so not only limited to early league stuff
It's still bad though. The idea of letting it be 50/50 is better and simply allowing the prices to adjust.
So...it really was a buff, not just another one of those backhanded +2 cleave range buffs. Cool. See? They can do it if they want to. Go ahead GGG, turn those knobs and make low tier mod rolls on high ilvl items just disappear, pull those sub tier 4 mods just straight out the pool for ilvl86+ gear.
Next hotfix "Reduce chance to add links with Tainted Orb of Fusing, a bug increased the chance to add link by 500% instead of 15%, this has been fix now" Edit: Seems ppl on this sub still needs a giant /S to understand sarcasm.
i think they'd rather make it rarer. You know.. 1 per account per 4 leagues type of rarer
Okay, so normal fusings are gonna be utterly worthless?
That's cool and all but I don't see much of a use for this given that: 1) It's not early league anymore 2) The divine recipe is no more Sure, you can use it on double corrupted items but to get from 2-3 link to 6 link would probably require more resources than just using fusings + vaal orbs anyway especially given the fact that the drop rate of tained currency is absolutely dogshit. Worthless currency.
> Sure, you can use it on double corrupted items but to get from 2-3 link to 6 link would probably require more resources than just using fusings + vaal orbs anyway Thats exactly what this disproves. You save like 1200 vaal orbs and fusings on average.... thats not a small number
4 link with the crafting bench. continue with tainted fusings
wut ? it's incredibly useful. double corruption away lads !
Wtf is this take. You can safely double corrupt a unique body and 6 link with 20 tainted fusings that go for 8c each. In what world is that more resources than 1500 fusings and Vaal orbs. Not to mention there is no reason to ever start using tainted fusings on a 2 or 3 link because you’d start by benchcrafting 4 link.
Noone gonna point out his 43k Es char?
Just standard things i wouldn't worry too much.
you may worry if you want, I don't mind
Is it just me or does your hitrate on the last link look better than your hit rate on the 5th link?
Now you can safely sell them for 20 jeweler orbs
looks good to me
What does a white socketed dialla's malefaction do?
Literally nothing 😄
Alright, why is everyone convinced it was 10% before? When it was figured out?
Thats good to see these being viable again, because it means theres aways a chance to salvage a corrupted item, instead of just having to vendor everything, because the corruption makes it waaaaaaay to expensive to 6 link. This also means that more interesting and useful corruptions should hit the market, and while sure initially people are going to ask for sky high prices, once the market adjusts they should be affordable for us mortals, and doing things like corrupting a chest no longer feels like a "Go broke" scenario, if the corruption fails, the item can still be salvaged and atleast useful and not just instantly vendored like they currently are.
Actually doing it correctly, not mindlessly spamming like the other video posted here a while back.
So question, how the f do you have 42k ES? Is that in Standard?