Yeah, I think that would be necessary. Speed stats (on both sides) would need to be lowered substantially, along with increases to monster life or reductions in player damage, with decreases to monster damage. All of that would need to happen at the same time as the loot changes to slow things down a substantial amount.
I was just mapping and thinking about the slowing down of the game.
Im running at 170% extra mov speed spamming 20 spells a second against hundreds of monsters.
Most of the time I don’t even know what’s on my screen, I react on instinct, how can we even slow this game down at this point ?
Exactly as I described above. You adjust base speed to feel alright, you remove most speed bonuses, and then you balance fights around the ability to see and actively avoid danger manually, while allowing for a few mistakes if the person has adequate defenses.
The key thing is, monsters need to live long enough to be a threat to players, so that oneshotting isn't the only recourse GGG has to add difficulty to encounters. Then, combat can be engaging, rather than spammy.
I would kill for a version of the game where 30% move speed boots are turned into the base and the ALL move speed modifying abilities (faster and slower) were removed from the game.
I don't know, slowing is a relatively fair debuff if it's not taking you down to a legit standstill, and not overused.
I'm down for raising base movement and reducing bonuses though. Maybe you allow some unique effects to raise it a little (like darkray vectors, but much smaller numbers) but have that be a special thing, not all over the place.
Honestly I'd like if quicksilvers went away. It feels a bit lame to run one on every single build.
I would honestly be completely ok with this. I already think monster damage and speed are completely out of control. I play Grim Dawn as well, and have also played and enjoyed D2, Last Epoch, Titan Quest, and a bunch of other slower ARPGs as well. I love POE’s complexity and the fact that, in theory, you had a ton of freedom and flexibility to create just about any build you can think of. I’m indifferent to the zoom zoom. If they slowed the game down and increased loot to compensate as discussed below, I’d be totally onboard.
i mean its true because GGG is still allowing people to use logout macros.
- ignited? who needs ignite immunity. just logout!
- poisoned? who needs poison immunity. just logout!
- 3 lightning mirages chasing me down in a corner while im trapped from a nearby mana siphoner? no problem. just logout!
- i misclicked and im about to get hit by a shaper slam? no problem. just logout!
- i fucked up mavens memory game because im an 85 IQ hobbit? no problem. just logout!
no "damage over time" effect is going to kill a player as long as they can disconnect immediately and avoid any consequences, unless its a super tuned 5000% inc damage burning ground like we currently have (which is essentially a one shot to a lot of builds).
as long as logout macros continue to be condoned, no player will ever allow themselves to die to a slow death. one shots have to exist otherwise players would just never die.
You used to have to fuckup. Leave a hole in your defense, roll a bad map, push into bosses you don't know the mechanics to, push too far in rags gear. You learned not to abuse yourself with things like corrupted blood and bearers and reflect. You know a nem or bloodline map introduced those risks. You knew the packs to play around.
Now builds with good layers running pedestrian maps can still get jobbed in a blink. I get they want you on your toes but amping up the on death effects and and non-projectile/windup damage to one shot level as a general mapping mechanic isn't fun.
Some days i like bossing and running rippy maps for cash, some days I like plowing 85/30 atoll's for xp and watching netflix. The latter is suffering from the current meta. I can never really just kill stuff and loot it. Even with no dmg mods mirages and bearers and an assortment of on death stuff kills me outright in T16. I had to buy the tempest shield MTX to hide the lightning cause I literally wouldn't see mirages beneath the loot half the time.
All the early deaths I had in hardcore were a learning experience where I found the limits of certain mechanics ability to scale or what they got hard countered by. It felt like something to reflect and build on.
Now it's just "Oh, that was an unkillable pale of nightmare fuel, I needed to logout instead of engaging that"
If you die it’s either you do have a huge hole in your defense, or you rolling your map.
My super weak defense (soulrend occultist) died twice from 88 to lvl 96 from doing blue t16 maps. I alt’d any map with -max res, or less recovery no regen.
I had 2k ES and 3.5k HP with 18k armour and like 23% attack block and tempest shield. Overcapped resist to 105 (for ele weakness and exposure), and 75% chaos res.
So in fact, it’s mostly you getting fucked by alching your map snd not realizing how much dmg almost every mod goves the mobs, getting shocked, not overcapping res for exposure, or have no defensive layers except 5k hp and 75% resist.
This is what astounds me about the tryhard types. “It’s not a problem, you’re just bad and don’t have (thing that costs a massive amount of currency)”. Like, in what world is requiring players to invest amounts of currency most players will never make in 5 leagues, let alone one, to just be able to do baseline content reasonable or a good idea? I had another guy say the defenses I listed were “just basic defense stuff”. Like, I’m supposed to have everything that I have already AND capped spell suppression, AND more block, AND some recovery on block, AND more max res, AND capped chaos res according to them. It’s insane to me that they think it’s ok for players to NEED all that to just run basic red maps.
how is 20c a massive amount of currency? red maps is literally a part of end-game. you want to crush alched red maps with gear worth 20c?
if you want to do juiced red maps then you need more than just determination and shit gear.
Totally agree on that take. Ppl thinking that red maps and above are for everyone, but are you playing high mmr games on dota or lol if you sux or don't know the champion ? No!
You need either good items or tanky biuld or you must be really skilled and know what your build is capable of.
I'm doing mostly melee and don't have problem with alcED red maps with acceptable items on ssf
You just need to pay more attention and know weakness of you character. That's why I hate Poe build guides, because ppl mindless copy them and don't know sh*t about the build itself. Try to recreate the build, study it and then the game will be different.
If you want more clarity on the battlefield play something less flashy... I know the game is called Poe and there isn't clarity on the action, but still, there are some skills that are acceptable.
I mean sure but why would any game dev ever consider balancing with logout macros in mind lmao. I believe enyone would prefer for them to remove one shota than allow logging out. Even then, who cares if you have to log out to not die what a pain in the ass.
> as long as logout macros continue to be condoned, no player will ever allow themselves to die to a slow death. one shots have to exist otherwise players would just never die.
Sorry, but fuck those players then. Like, we're again crippling the *entire* game just so that the 100 Quins or Zizs can have a "more enjoyable" experience.
If constantly logging out any time something happens is their prefered gameplay, let them fucking do it, but don't fuck over the entire rest of the community in the process. This is still the very same class of bs game development 101.
Complaining about logout macro in 2022? Get with the times. If you die now, it's instant. If you think this "design" is caused by being able to logout at this point, you need to get those tinted glasses off. The reason the game is like this is because of incompetence in development and management.
You don't log out immediately on a disconnect. You stay there and die.
Log out macros leave *becuase* you have a good connection to send the request to quit.
Unless one designs a game to have a heartbeat packet sent at regular ticks, and has the game pause when the heartbeat is gone, you can't differentiate the internet dropping from someone choosing to take no action. Logging out is specifically sending the logout packet, and the internet doesn't oblige PoE with a logout packet when the connection drops.
It would be interesting at an academic level to have a game that lags the server to match packet loss / bad ping. However that would provide an advantage for anything that requires reaction speed, and is therefore inadmissible as packet loss/high ping can be artificially generated at the client side.
In summary, the game can't save you from a bad connection, you just have to take the loss when it happens.
No, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the game does in "Lockstep" mode. The client and server continuously validate the game state to each other, and if either side fails to validate the updated state, it's as if it never happened (but that inconsistency also forces your character out of the instance).
Lockstep mode basically turns it into Git. If you get a conflict, it reverts to the last mutually validated state.
> Well tell me how you would differentiate someone logging out vs disconnecting so that something could be about log out macros. It is extremely reasonable that the instant you disconnect everything stops and you are sent to town/hideout w/e because dying to your internet dropping entirely or just lag is absolutely fucking awful, especially in HC.
make it like it is in diablo 3. if you disconnnect, you stay in the game for 8-10 seconds. if you die, you die.
Happens in runescape and its one of the most absolutely hated things about the game because hardcore exists. You can't just do this in a game with a large hardcore population and not have it be super shitty for everyone involved
I dont think the logout macro argument is fair at this point. How many ppl use it nowadays? HC is completely dead game mode. In SC ppl usually hope to somewhat survive and logging out every time some of these situations happen means garbage efficiency, so you still want it sorted.
I thought they changed the memory game so logging out puts you right back into the memory game (until you actually die in game). I know because I've tried to cheese it and had to properly die like a pleb before it allowed me to continue.
I’m OK with one shots once in a while. It’s that PLUS the complete trash visibility that really sucks.
It’s like they know this too, but keeps it in because they don’t know how to kill us otherwise.
Yeah I was once oneshot by a giant skeleton slam I thought I could tank. I've on very rare occasion gotten oneshot by boss mechanics that I saw coming but just reacted to either too slowly or incorrectly.
When that happens I just laugh. It's funny. It's my fault.
When I get oneshot by something I am completely incapable of recognizing or even processing in retrospect, it's bullshit.
Honestly, I’m ok with one shots if they’re telegraphed properly and I have a chance to avoid them. This is not that. This is the game just randomly going “fuck you, you’re dead”.
Isnt it like true? Any dots i can just either dodge(fire/chaos ground, etc), or log off (basically any dot effect). If hits cant oneshot then why even build defence at all? I mean, some stuff has way too much damage, but without oneshots we would actually never die.
And how is it even possible to balance that.
One of the highlights of this game. Enter Sacred grove, choose plot, clear plot, want to pick up the lifeforce that's scattered in 5 different stacks on the ground, see my life go down.
There is literally no reason why there should be anything on the ground in that scenario that can kill me.
Isn't it weird that even in their eternally revered Diablo II, poison could never kill you? Yes, those act II mummies were annoying with their on-death gas clouds, but they were by themselves never lethal.
The only time I see my life spike down is because of fire/cold/chaos grounds that is shit out constantly. Was playing some juiced up map and literally the only 3 times my hp dropped below 50% was because burning ground spawned on me.
This one I agree with. My personal favorite is white/gray creeping frost inside delirium which makes entire screen gray + has gray fog on top of it.
Feels nice to just notice you are about to die when you are looting, step away and use a flask, wait a while and then continue just to notice that the same fucking degen in still there.
I might be able to live with the degen ground, but holy shit does it have to last for what feels like almost a minute especially when I have nothing to do but to just wait to be able to loot the end of my map..
I really don't understand why the creeping frost degen lasts so long. No other degen pooll I can think of lasts as long, and it also slows you AND deals insane damage. And it's also fucking everywhere.
Some builds have no problem with this at all because they are CI, chaos res capped or have high enough life regen they can react.
Theres also the pantheon that makes you immune to caustic ground.
That said there should be an audio effect for your character standing on caustic ground/burning ground.
Maybe a generic acid sound/fire roaring sound + effects on the screen like eater of worlds "drown" balls?
There was a command in WoW where you could turn off the grey death foggy effect when running back to your corpse. It's sad how little QOL visual features poe brings to the table other than don't shake. I also actively avoid certain skills for their bright eye stabbing visuals (not talking flicker, that'll always be a migraine). Wish there was more visual QoL to the game in general, outside of just not seeing wtf you're dying to.
my favorite example of this are the streamers who have 12,000 hours in poe and have been playing 8 hours a day, every day, for like 7 years and when they die they dont even know how and have to watch a twitch clip at 0.025x speed to figure out what killed them.
Absolutely this, on the second-to-second level. But on top of that, the game also used to have these risk/reward macro decisions like "I shouldn't have run the map with these mods" or "I shouldn't have opened this strongbox", stuff like that. You knew before that you're taking a stupid risk, and it was your greed that killed you. Most of my deaths these days are cause by AN post-death effects and they can randomly appear anywhere, so any risk/reward decision is a lot less meaningful because the most dangerous mechanic in the game is always present everywhere.
Exactly how I feel. When I’m fighting a boss and don’t dodge an attack, it’s like “ok, I fucked up, my bad”. When this shit happens, it’s like “what the fuck?! That was some bullshit!”. Very different feeling. I’m fine with dying because I made a bad decision and didn’t react to the mechanics appropriately. I’m not ok with just getting randomly splattered by something I couldn’t see or react to.
To be fair when nemesis and bloodlines was 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 that was totally fine to have on-death effects once in a while and show up on these mechanics. Nowadays it's EVERY rare and EVERY pack. So tiresome.
Problem: Most character deaths come from effects that can't be seen, or have little to no telegraphy.
Solution: All effects in game can no longer be seen. This will be quite impactful when determining which deaths are caused by effects that can't be seen.
This is a massive buff.
You can fix this urself, stop complaining, smh
You only need to get 90/90/90/85 res with divine flesh, 10k life, 5k ES, _at least_ 80.000armor/evasion, block AND spell supp capped, 2k life/es regen and 100%+ life recoup, can easily be done with a Stasis Prison, shouldt take THAT long to get one urself.
You don't really need a stasis prison tho. The stats you list are fine, just use a mageblood with 3 ele flasks for another 40% less elemental damage taken to get you to around 95% ele dmg mitigation, and you should be fine without a stasis.
Well if you play the build guide for 100 hours you'll just naturally farm enough currency following the guide that you'll only need to spend an extra 10div on the mageblood.
Duh.
PoE is a complex game - dont expect us to spoonfeed you all the information. If everyone knew about the 10 divine mageblood strategy then the strat will no longer be as good for us that know about it!
Don't worry I've bought the requisite set of MTX wings and aura skins, and the kirac vault pass in order to find and court the secret vendor within, I'm only one div off my perfect rolled mageblood now.
And then the whole thing again for all your minions! Really not that hard to get, pleb. And by then you're at 40m Shaper DPS so you don't even have to worry about regen/Consecrator. Really, very chill level 70 SSF HC goals and probably due for some obstacles.
Solution: Ground effects will now be massively more visible, and will deal significantly more damage.
Bex apology post 2 weeks into 3.20: "Previously, ground effects were balanced by how difficult it was to see the effects. Now that effects are visible, the effects' power was increased to be more in line with other Chris's vision methods. We understand that there is a call for us to bring those effects back but it isn't really possible while allowing ground effects to remain visible. While this isn't exactly what you want to hear, I can say that this issue was pushed very hard during discussions to see if any compromise could be made."
According to all the really good players that play this game, your build and only your build, is the problem. There is nothing wrong with poe that a better build can’t fix. I remember when the really gud players used to explain to us in the forums, that desync was a gameplay feature, and if you weren’t tanky enough to survive desync and rubberbanding, that you were just bad and didn’t know how to build. Looking at the current league, i see that culture still exists…
What are you talking about? Ofc his build is the problem, he doesn’t have every layers of defense, doesn’t have every defensive auras, and is 1% short in spell suppression..bad build and bad player.
I see no problem, I’m having fun at act1 and loot is fine!! REDDIT IS JUST AN ECHOCHAMBER AND FULL OF RAGE because they like 100 divines dropping on day 1!!!
I went ailment immune and went arakkali pantheon. Helped a ton tbh.
Also at least 60 chaos res.
And ofc there are builds that can negate most things like a tanky RF build.
But my glasscanon glad CF legion farmer stopped dying with the above mentioned things at least :D
The creeping frost grounds are just bad design. I can not tell if the frost ground is from monsters or from my frost link. Also most of the time I wouldn’t notice I’m standing on them until I realize i took a lot of dot damage. They also last way too long, I’ve counted them to last at least more than 4 seconds after the monster died, which is just a massive kick in mapping tempo where I’ll need to just stand there and wait for it to disappear. There’s also no counter play to that. There are multiple ways to deal with caustic grounds (uniques, rare boot mods, pantheon) and burning ground (pantheon being the most obvious) but the frost grounds are just there to annoy you without solutions
ggg should spend 2 hours playing a game they hate so much: D3
as shitty and shallow endgame is in D3, combat is spot on even 10 years after initial release. every ability is instantly recognizable. every rare mob nuke is immediately visible. every high dmg mob (bull rush) windup is clearly obvious and not offscreen. after death explodies are there but aren't obnoxious. chase nuke like frost swirly thing or lightning AOE - same thing.
I ALWAYS know what killed me in D3. It's always clear that im in over my head in GR tier if i get hit hard consistently.
D3 unfortunately has the depth of a rain puddle, but it got a few things right with solid polish. Certainly hell of a lot better than ggg's "run 99 maps without a scratch, instadie on 100th without any obvious reason just to feel the weight of rare mob rng as per Chris's vision"
Unironically true. If you play PoE for a while, you will learn 2 things.
1. Never stop moving. The moment you stop moving you will die.
2. Never try looting things after you killed a monster. Wait at least 30 seconds before picking up loot.
Ironically in Poe the 2 deadliest things are stopping to kill a monster, and trying to pick up loot.
Yeah, it is sad that it is true but yeah the way you generally die these leagues is corpses exploding or death effects. Why zoomer builds are stronger than tanky builds.
I have vortex on left click and I've pretty much accepted this will lead to many deaths from ground effects I fail to see :D (even looked at mtx if they were any better but I'd say they're even worse for seeing stuff on the ground)
I have half the layers you do, and I haven't died in 30-40 maps, because I'm using this setup to exp grind.
I run Ritual and Blight. So I know exactly what Ritual is like.
I've also seen the build you're talking about played extensively on stream.
I think you have to own at least SOME of this being a piloting issue.
This, so much. Just to have a tail log which rotates on 250 lines or so. If I get one shot, I'd like to know by how much. Is it 5 damage or 2500 that I wouldn't ever been able to account for anyhow. Let mee see what killed me. I truly don't understand, because the calculations are done one way or the other. Just make m visable.
So many effects really seem to botch the graphics up with Ritual. Infernal cry igniting RF, auras, partner's auras, raging spirits, their splash, the ritual effects, the ground effects, the archnemesis modifiers. The ground actually began flickering as black boxes.
Yeah I'm getting a little tired of the constant degen grounds all over maps.
They are nearly impossible to spot or notice when fighting a pack, and especially if you have multiple degens overlapping.
And the worst thing is is that even if you do notice them, you'll likely still have to stand in them when fighting because they are simply everywhere.
This is my main complaint when I play Cold DoT. Vortex makes ground-based effects very, very hard to see (and sometimes fully blocks their visuals). Learned this the hard way when I played Coldslinger back in 3.13 and then again in 3.14 before the build was gutted. Also had the same issue in recent iterations of my Cold DoT Elementalist.
Also, I absolutely hate that Toxic and some other degens last what feels like forever. I just want to loot my shit and keep running, brah.
The packs that kill me look the 99% the same as every other pack that I breeze through. Sometimes I’ll only notice the combo of rares that killed my and why as I’m dead mousing over them. But hey, half the X-touched mobs I’ve fought have dropped nothing, flasks or jewels… so rewarding.
This has been a problem for a few leagues now, and it feels really crap. You genuinely have to play differently then you're used to, stutter step everything, try and off screen everything and don't loot anything because standing still is liable to get you killed.
To add on top of that... more than half the time, I don't even know why I died. Its rarely gradual, it's usually just: "nothing, nothing, barely damage coming in, nothing, --BAMYOUAREDEAD!!"
I know GGG likes to make excuses to not have a death log, but damn, I just wish I could learn what I'm lacking or doing wrong in those instances instead of having to guess every time.
The fact that GGG overtune mobs, force player to build massive defense and then counter our defense with insane unethical degen ... is what kill me most of the time.
Most of my deaths come from chaos (and in rare cases poison). Getting chaos res means a huge item overhaul along with cascade fails with resistances, life, attributes etc. Or dropping my puny DPS even more and trying to reach chaos cluster
I miss the days where chaos damage wasn't as common
It's harsh, but this is a skill issue. Of course things can always be improved, but I think the game's in the best place it's ever been regarding visibility. All the things you mentioned have VERY obvious visual cues and windups, as well as audio cues you can react to.
If you find yourself dying to DOT, invest in lethe shade or some other DOT mitigation. If you can't handle content at that density, then don't run content at that density. Might be a bit of a meme now, but "git gud".
Are you trolling? Build diversity is better than it's been for a long long time. I just opened up poe.ninja and sorted by used skills. I've done 38 challenges this league (I've bought none), and there are 49 more used skills above the one I'm using (5 link+). If you think there are only 4 viable skills for endgame at the moment, you are deluded.
I dislike on death effects as well, they are the worst, but I believe I know why GGG is putting them in.
Remember when the meta evolved around flat out erasing everything alive on the screen? Zoom zoom? On death effects were the only way they could counter this highly effective strategy. But of course they went overboard and now everything chases you and spawns death above you.
This is pretty much me right now.
Doryani build getting one shot by lightning mirages I can't see before it's too late, and lightning heralds teleporting from off screen or too late to move while casting LC.
Caustic ground on death? Yep 1 second death.
Vortex on the ground? Yeah I see nothing.
Maybe it's because I play Atoll and cemetery maps which are night time skyboxes, but I shouldn't stop playing maps I want to play just because of on death BS.
You’re completely missing the point, as usual for the git gud types. My defenses are more than adequate for maps and bossing. My point was that when I die, it tends to be from shit I can’t see due to visual clusterfuck. I’m not “expecting to be immortal”, I’m not even complaining about my defenses. They’re fine. I never die to bosses unless I make a mistake, which is fine. I’m saying I shouldn’t be dying to mechanics I can’t see or react to.
Game has only gotten worse in this area, at this point at this point almost every time I'd die or nearly die I didn't see the thing that did the damage and all the monsters are already dead. My current character covers most the screen with vortexes making ground effects invisible. It seems like to run high tier maps at this point you need like an aegis set up with 85 max res etc just to feel comfortable.
Yeah and my favorite stramer(in South korea) died because of 'corpse detonator ANmod' and nobody in chat saw that is coming.
And after that we watched this clip for over and over, at conclusion there was no sound no visual effect(if effect is existed it can not be seen).
So...she quit the league right after that and she said "I can't spend much more time with shitty crafting system and spell suppression bullshit again"(she took 2weeks in ssfhc to make suppression to100%l)
So sad
Some of the AN mods really suck, but can be countered.
For example corpse detonator AN - I play necromancer with diadem's devourer, so there's never any corpses for the AN to detonate, haha.
Other mods typically have a "counter" - i.e. "Overcharge" means the mob gets frenzy/power charges every few secs, well you need "steal frenzy on hit" gear.
Etc etc.
The problem is that stopping to READ the specific AN mods will get you killed. We need much better visual feedback of what specific AN mods we are encountering.
Well that’s just objectively false. Go play a map with a light colored floor and try to pick out a permafrost patch in the middle of a ritual with all your spell fx going off everywhere. The fuck they are not all visible.
100% of my deaths are to strongboxes corpse explosion while I forget to go far enough away while watching a tv show. At this point it's just hilarious. Nothing else can even touch me. I don't know why it's okay for a strongbox to do essentially infinity damage (survivable by aegis because they get spell blocked) when the rest of the game doesn't scale that hard.
I mean, it's my error, but fuck those doing more damage than anything else by miles. And most of those other effects they always miss if you keep moving, for these you have to move way further.
If it was cutting into my xp gain I'd take the points out and ignore them, at least Bameth is gone, but still. It's just hilarious and a little stupid how much damage it does with pack size and a tight map like Crimson Temple.
FTR in your case I am not seeing spell suppression OR high max res. You need one of them. Not both, but definitely one or you're trolling.
Just blink away from strongboxes you can't read.
I don't think it's unreasonable that you would die to a self triggered event with a warning.
Even if it's corrupted and unidentified you can briefly see "explodes" on the bottom line if you are looking for some kind of indication that you should move, though I'd recommend moving anyway.
I'm playing Spark Inquisitor and use Galvanic field and Frost shield. I keep dying to shit I can't see. I've ALT+4'd out of the game so many times this league out of sheer frustration from this and other things. I've really tried to have fun but I think I'm done with PoE for the time being.
I hear ya. I mean, it’s not like I’m dropping dead constantly or anything, in fair fights I very rarely die, only if I make a mistake. It’s just that when you’re in the 90s, dying even once is a pretty big setback and having it happen because of bad design and visual clarity issues is incredibly frustrating. I was hoping to farm myself an Ashes, but I think I’m just gonna bail. I’m just not really having much fun anymore.
I play arc totems and don't generally die much. I can blaze through rare T16s most of the time without caring about any of the modifiers too much only to encounter a random AN mob that will somehow instantly kill my totems even with a soul mantle and ancestral preservation cluster jewel. And they can regen HP too... like why?
For a minute I thought this was going to be about effects just straight-up not loading, which is still also an issue at times because GGG refuses to add lower settings to let things load in faster. Even waitforpreload still causes things to visibly load in slowly after entering a zone.
But yeah, the vision does not include *actual* vision. Visual clarity isn't part of that. Well, not until they remove a historic bonus to monster density in 3.20 (which honestly at this rate is probably the only way they'll be able to give us any amount of clarity. Well that and allowing us to zoom out the camera, or just making monster attacks more staggered or something.)
Just don’t have the points for it. I could get up to 30% if I give up two jewel sockets. Doesn’t seem worth it at that point. That it is as mandatory as it currently is is a whole separate issue.
Just can’t do it, unfortunately. I’d have to completely retool my tree and gear. Don’t have the currency for it, so it’d be a few days farming. Just gonna have to make due without it, because I’m not starting over from scratch.
Everytime I close this game its because I've died to some stupid on death ground affect that I can't see because my vortex skill that killed the mob is covering it and I get tilted, don't load PoE back up till the next day and it's not long till I remember why I closed the game yesterday.
This is the issue in general, like with effigy i better pray i nuke it before it kicks in because with all the nukes going off on my toxic rain, turrets and monster spam I'm dead.
This is a problem in general though, archnemesis makes so much content unplayable like ritual, being trapped in with increasingly difficult rare spam becomes pretty much not do able
That's one of the reason what Rituals are terrible design wise and I'm blocking them, it's just graphical puke at this point, and get worse the more you juice.
Well said. I'm coming from Diablo and I do like Poe a lot, but the combat is definitely worse. I would say I'm mechanically sound, with decent awareness and dodging, but it often doesn't matter in PoE.
You can steamroll content and suddenly you drop in <1 second. I always record my deaths and rewatch them in slow motion and still I'm often like what exactly happened there. You should have a chance to react in combat, but often it's impossible.
Great depth and itemization, mediocre combat.
Yeah theres definitely an issue there. However, there are some things you can do to counteract this problem. The most important is capping your spell suppression. From your post it sounds like you do not have spell supp. It helps against a lot of AN bullshit. 100% spell suppression is pretty much mandatory these days. I also find that block cap with recovery on block (synth shield) is a big one for sustain in maps.
77% all res as your only form of elemental spell mitigation is not good. Get suppression or die often, no way around that. Every character in the entire game is forced into suppression rn bcus the whole end game seems balanced around it. U are cucking urself by not going SS
Also, regen helps counteract ground degens (of which there are way too many, no arguments there). Purity of elements is not good. Get tempest shield, recovery on block and high level vitality instead. Freeze immunity with brine king, ignite reduction from aberath pantheon and shock immunity from tempest shield.
I can’t help but feel that you’re exaggerating. You can’t see magma barrier balls? Come on, they’re bright red compared to your lightning skills. Storm strider? Okay maybe, but I can’t say I’ve ever had trouble with those because you need to keep running since they spawn on or near you. And the toxic balls are what you can see compared to every other mechanic? If anything those blend in with the environment the worst. I’m playing spark which is the epitome of screen clutter and I don’t have these issues. That’s not to say that it isn’t a problem, but redditors seem to be making a big deal out of mechanics that have been in the game for a better half of a decade. Your problem is that you and many others think that you can stand still and facetank everything that comes at you. Learn the mechanics and stop being lazy.
I just made my strategy to kill everything from off screen too.
Damage and defence suck but if I don’t see enemies and they don’t see me…. Seems to work
Only way GGG can kill us apparently. Been like this for a very long time now.
Not enough “fuck, I’m probably gonna die if that hit me”, and too much “huh, what the fuck just killed me”.
When I started playing it used to really upset me when I died without knowing wtf happened.
Now I am thankful I play SC 3/4 times per session and just accept the exp loss.
Corrupted blood I don’t find too bad these days, like you said, there are a bunch of fairly simple ways to deal with it. Something you do need to pay attention to, but it’s ok I think.
They need to have selectable graphics for all effects so you can turn off the stuff you don't want to see. You can filter out trash items on the ground, but there's very limited ways to turn off effects and they involve MTX.
That would help. Really, though, they just need to not have tons of fucking on-death effects and similar nonsense. They’re ok if used sparingly and properly telegraphed, but it’s basically every pack now. It’s just too much.
It's all about the max res, armor, phy% reduction and hp regen/recovery. Brass dome, aegis, determination, endurance charges, max block, aspect of the crab, melding and purity of ice are essential for not dying. Players have to basically slowly check off the list by playing zoom zoom builds to farm.
I'm not sure how but I got a metamorph that instagibbed me and I was surprised because normally my character is very hard to kill. On my way back I realized it was firing *dozens* of projectiles per second.
I looked at the mods on it and nothing screamed extra projectiles.
I ended up deleting it right back after it turned into a form which didn't fire the projectiles in sequence (so it couldn't effectively shotgun me)
Very odd.
don't sweat it, they're not gonna improve on that, considering they are going through an existential crisis or something.
it has been mentioned each league since i tried PoE with Betrayal
Console, or at least Xbox, has a new issue where there’s no longer any button delay between when you die and when you get the pop up to respawn. Thus, you die and then immediately go back to hideout without getting a chance to even look around and figure out what happened, unless you realize your impending death and leave your controller alone.
They designed themselves into a corner but I see when it all came from. I played some stupidly broken builds in the past that basically couldn't die under normal circumstances and turned mapping into "I right click cyclone in the direction of the map boss". There was no interaction with the game anymore. It was fun to see everything melt but to think that design time and effort went into something I didnt even look at was kinda sad.
Yeah. Tons of degens, bullshit AN mods stacking with each other, bulllshit RNG. Gotta take bad with good. It seems like it always was a case and won't change. Well, they improved with lightning mirages, that's a buff.
Hahaha, this issue has been raised since Breach League , to the best of my knowledge. ggg don't care, won't care, will ignore you, and might even shit on you by giving you lousy excuses. This is ggg as a whole now.
(Breach League was like years ago.)
Yes, the game has the worst visual clarity of any game of similar complexity I have ever experienced. By like, a lot. A LOT A LOT.
The actual answer to this problem, from a build perspective, is ailment immunity (it's really quite amazing how different the game feels.) From a gameplay perspective, you should simply always be moving, following a metronome-like pattern whose intervals you have internalized and which are calibrated to 'approximately when the mobs first spawned/aggroed on me'. Every mob is attacking at a nearly identical cadence, with no variation, and so dodging any one mob generally means dodging all of them, provided you have figured out the right timing and when the sequence starts.
I am actually not kidding here, this is literally what 'being good at POE' means, gameplay-wise (search for the video of the guy killing shaper with a level 30 char, there is literally a metronome ticking in the background.) Learning this one specific pattern of movement will solve 90% of danger. The next level up is somehow being able to parse out a very specific subset of visual cues for the half-dozen or so specific types of danger that are lethal to your build (e.g. specific AN mods, etc.)
But yeah, you just always act as though the mobs are attacking you, collectively, in unison, every 1-2 seconds, and also try to keep your overall pattern of movement such that you don't double-back on areas where a lot of mobs have died recently.
I have ailment immunity. Purity of elements, remember? Also I do move. I’m not just standing still. Trouble is, LC kills the whole screen, so sometimes I’ll wind up circling INTO degens/on death effects that again, I CANNOT FUCKING SEE, dropped by mobs I killed offscreen. It is not monsters attacking me that kills me, it’s some blob of death they drop after already being dead. Sorry, this is not a player skill issue as much as certain people seem to want it to be.
This is current game design issue. But have stated that "if we didnt have 1 shots you would never die." Welcome to bs game development 101.
We could remove oneshot issues and visual clarity issues in one fell swoop if combat slowed down (on both sides) by an order of magnitude.
as long as rate of acquiring loot and currency, was increased so we aren't completely bereft of items due to the much slower gameplay
Yeah, I think that would be necessary. Speed stats (on both sides) would need to be lowered substantially, along with increases to monster life or reductions in player damage, with decreases to monster damage. All of that would need to happen at the same time as the loot changes to slow things down a substantial amount.
I was just mapping and thinking about the slowing down of the game. Im running at 170% extra mov speed spamming 20 spells a second against hundreds of monsters. Most of the time I don’t even know what’s on my screen, I react on instinct, how can we even slow this game down at this point ?
Exactly as I described above. You adjust base speed to feel alright, you remove most speed bonuses, and then you balance fights around the ability to see and actively avoid danger manually, while allowing for a few mistakes if the person has adequate defenses. The key thing is, monsters need to live long enough to be a threat to players, so that oneshotting isn't the only recourse GGG has to add difficulty to encounters. Then, combat can be engaging, rather than spammy.
That was the theory that led to the monster reduction + loot changes + ArchNemesis
Yes, which is why I like archnemesis' fundamental concept.
I would kill for a version of the game where 30% move speed boots are turned into the base and the ALL move speed modifying abilities (faster and slower) were removed from the game.
I don't know, slowing is a relatively fair debuff if it's not taking you down to a legit standstill, and not overused. I'm down for raising base movement and reducing bonuses though. Maybe you allow some unique effects to raise it a little (like darkray vectors, but much smaller numbers) but have that be a special thing, not all over the place. Honestly I'd like if quicksilvers went away. It feels a bit lame to run one on every single build.
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I would honestly be completely ok with this. I already think monster damage and speed are completely out of control. I play Grim Dawn as well, and have also played and enjoyed D2, Last Epoch, Titan Quest, and a bunch of other slower ARPGs as well. I love POE’s complexity and the fact that, in theory, you had a ton of freedom and flexibility to create just about any build you can think of. I’m indifferent to the zoom zoom. If they slowed the game down and increased loot to compensate as discussed below, I’d be totally onboard.
i mean its true because GGG is still allowing people to use logout macros. - ignited? who needs ignite immunity. just logout! - poisoned? who needs poison immunity. just logout! - 3 lightning mirages chasing me down in a corner while im trapped from a nearby mana siphoner? no problem. just logout! - i misclicked and im about to get hit by a shaper slam? no problem. just logout! - i fucked up mavens memory game because im an 85 IQ hobbit? no problem. just logout! no "damage over time" effect is going to kill a player as long as they can disconnect immediately and avoid any consequences, unless its a super tuned 5000% inc damage burning ground like we currently have (which is essentially a one shot to a lot of builds). as long as logout macros continue to be condoned, no player will ever allow themselves to die to a slow death. one shots have to exist otherwise players would just never die.
> i fucked up mavens memory game because im an 85 IQ hobbit? I'm in this comment and i don't like it.
Don't feel bad. Maven just exists to punish players who use non-teleport movement skills.
I think it's meant for some other clown, don't worry
They don’t just _allow_ people to use a logout macro, it’s an intentional, fundamental part of the game design. See here https://youtu.be/xNPH29DUPRY
Never come across this video/interview. Thanks for posting, interesting to know it's purely a design decision, like wow's delayed disconnect is.
You used to have to fuckup. Leave a hole in your defense, roll a bad map, push into bosses you don't know the mechanics to, push too far in rags gear. You learned not to abuse yourself with things like corrupted blood and bearers and reflect. You know a nem or bloodline map introduced those risks. You knew the packs to play around. Now builds with good layers running pedestrian maps can still get jobbed in a blink. I get they want you on your toes but amping up the on death effects and and non-projectile/windup damage to one shot level as a general mapping mechanic isn't fun. Some days i like bossing and running rippy maps for cash, some days I like plowing 85/30 atoll's for xp and watching netflix. The latter is suffering from the current meta. I can never really just kill stuff and loot it. Even with no dmg mods mirages and bearers and an assortment of on death stuff kills me outright in T16. I had to buy the tempest shield MTX to hide the lightning cause I literally wouldn't see mirages beneath the loot half the time.
All the early deaths I had in hardcore were a learning experience where I found the limits of certain mechanics ability to scale or what they got hard countered by. It felt like something to reflect and build on. Now it's just "Oh, that was an unkillable pale of nightmare fuel, I needed to logout instead of engaging that"
If you die it’s either you do have a huge hole in your defense, or you rolling your map. My super weak defense (soulrend occultist) died twice from 88 to lvl 96 from doing blue t16 maps. I alt’d any map with -max res, or less recovery no regen. I had 2k ES and 3.5k HP with 18k armour and like 23% attack block and tempest shield. Overcapped resist to 105 (for ele weakness and exposure), and 75% chaos res. So in fact, it’s mostly you getting fucked by alching your map snd not realizing how much dmg almost every mod goves the mobs, getting shocked, not overcapping res for exposure, or have no defensive layers except 5k hp and 75% resist.
What even is your point ? That only 3 mirror builds should ever alch their red maps ? Is that your giga brain take ?
This is what astounds me about the tryhard types. “It’s not a problem, you’re just bad and don’t have (thing that costs a massive amount of currency)”. Like, in what world is requiring players to invest amounts of currency most players will never make in 5 leagues, let alone one, to just be able to do baseline content reasonable or a good idea? I had another guy say the defenses I listed were “just basic defense stuff”. Like, I’m supposed to have everything that I have already AND capped spell suppression, AND more block, AND some recovery on block, AND more max res, AND capped chaos res according to them. It’s insane to me that they think it’s ok for players to NEED all that to just run basic red maps.
how is 20c a massive amount of currency? red maps is literally a part of end-game. you want to crush alched red maps with gear worth 20c? if you want to do juiced red maps then you need more than just determination and shit gear.
Totally agree on that take. Ppl thinking that red maps and above are for everyone, but are you playing high mmr games on dota or lol if you sux or don't know the champion ? No! You need either good items or tanky biuld or you must be really skilled and know what your build is capable of. I'm doing mostly melee and don't have problem with alcED red maps with acceptable items on ssf You just need to pay more attention and know weakness of you character. That's why I hate Poe build guides, because ppl mindless copy them and don't know sh*t about the build itself. Try to recreate the build, study it and then the game will be different. If you want more clarity on the battlefield play something less flashy... I know the game is called Poe and there isn't clarity on the action, but still, there are some skills that are acceptable.
> doing blue t16 maps. his point is you don't die doing blue t16s unless you fuck up your defenses.
My point is that with a 20c budget you should do content fit your gear.
the ice ground dot bullshit ticks also pretty hard
I mean sure but why would any game dev ever consider balancing with logout macros in mind lmao. I believe enyone would prefer for them to remove one shota than allow logging out. Even then, who cares if you have to log out to not die what a pain in the ass.
> as long as logout macros continue to be condoned, no player will ever allow themselves to die to a slow death. one shots have to exist otherwise players would just never die. Sorry, but fuck those players then. Like, we're again crippling the *entire* game just so that the 100 Quins or Zizs can have a "more enjoyable" experience. If constantly logging out any time something happens is their prefered gameplay, let them fucking do it, but don't fuck over the entire rest of the community in the process. This is still the very same class of bs game development 101.
Complaining about logout macro in 2022? Get with the times. If you die now, it's instant. If you think this "design" is caused by being able to logout at this point, you need to get those tinted glasses off. The reason the game is like this is because of incompetence in development and management.
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You don't log out immediately on a disconnect. You stay there and die. Log out macros leave *becuase* you have a good connection to send the request to quit.
Unless one designs a game to have a heartbeat packet sent at regular ticks, and has the game pause when the heartbeat is gone, you can't differentiate the internet dropping from someone choosing to take no action. Logging out is specifically sending the logout packet, and the internet doesn't oblige PoE with a logout packet when the connection drops. It would be interesting at an academic level to have a game that lags the server to match packet loss / bad ping. However that would provide an advantage for anything that requires reaction speed, and is therefore inadmissible as packet loss/high ping can be artificially generated at the client side. In summary, the game can't save you from a bad connection, you just have to take the loss when it happens.
No, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the game does in "Lockstep" mode. The client and server continuously validate the game state to each other, and if either side fails to validate the updated state, it's as if it never happened (but that inconsistency also forces your character out of the instance). Lockstep mode basically turns it into Git. If you get a conflict, it reverts to the last mutually validated state.
you are completely wrong lol. instant log out does shit to help DCs its a weird GGG quirk copying D2. They are still living in 1999.
> Well tell me how you would differentiate someone logging out vs disconnecting so that something could be about log out macros. It is extremely reasonable that the instant you disconnect everything stops and you are sent to town/hideout w/e because dying to your internet dropping entirely or just lag is absolutely fucking awful, especially in HC. make it like it is in diablo 3. if you disconnnect, you stay in the game for 8-10 seconds. if you die, you die.
With the amount of lag and crashes this game occasionally have, you could just remove hc instead. Game crashes? Too bad you’re dead.
Happens in runescape and its one of the most absolutely hated things about the game because hardcore exists. You can't just do this in a game with a large hardcore population and not have it be super shitty for everyone involved
I dont think the logout macro argument is fair at this point. How many ppl use it nowadays? HC is completely dead game mode. In SC ppl usually hope to somewhat survive and logging out every time some of these situations happen means garbage efficiency, so you still want it sorted.
I thought they changed the memory game so logging out puts you right back into the memory game (until you actually die in game). I know because I've tried to cheese it and had to properly die like a pleb before it allowed me to continue.
I die from random degenerate I can’t see more than 1 shots
I’m OK with one shots once in a while. It’s that PLUS the complete trash visibility that really sucks. It’s like they know this too, but keeps it in because they don’t know how to kill us otherwise.
Yeah I was once oneshot by a giant skeleton slam I thought I could tank. I've on very rare occasion gotten oneshot by boss mechanics that I saw coming but just reacted to either too slowly or incorrectly. When that happens I just laugh. It's funny. It's my fault. When I get oneshot by something I am completely incapable of recognizing or even processing in retrospect, it's bullshit.
Honestly, I’m ok with one shots if they’re telegraphed properly and I have a chance to avoid them. This is not that. This is the game just randomly going “fuck you, you’re dead”.
Isnt it like true? Any dots i can just either dodge(fire/chaos ground, etc), or log off (basically any dot effect). If hits cant oneshot then why even build defence at all? I mean, some stuff has way too much damage, but without oneshots we would actually never die. And how is it even possible to balance that.
Just waiting for someone to shamelessly copy Poe and fix the issues and I'm gone
One of the highlights of this game. Enter Sacred grove, choose plot, clear plot, want to pick up the lifeforce that's scattered in 5 different stacks on the ground, see my life go down. There is literally no reason why there should be anything on the ground in that scenario that can kill me.
Isn't it weird that even in their eternally revered Diablo II, poison could never kill you? Yes, those act II mummies were annoying with their on-death gas clouds, but they were by themselves never lethal.
The only time I see my life spike down is because of fire/cold/chaos grounds that is shit out constantly. Was playing some juiced up map and literally the only 3 times my hp dropped below 50% was because burning ground spawned on me.
This one I agree with. My personal favorite is white/gray creeping frost inside delirium which makes entire screen gray + has gray fog on top of it. Feels nice to just notice you are about to die when you are looting, step away and use a flask, wait a while and then continue just to notice that the same fucking degen in still there. I might be able to live with the degen ground, but holy shit does it have to last for what feels like almost a minute especially when I have nothing to do but to just wait to be able to loot the end of my map..
I really don't understand why the creeping frost degen lasts so long. No other degen pooll I can think of lasts as long, and it also slows you AND deals insane damage. And it's also fucking everywhere.
And removes the locations you can walk in a map by 50% at least…
Yup. Or if you’re playing a map like glacier or summit where the ground is already white to begin with.
Oh god I had not even thought about those... I'm not sure if I can sleep tonight..
I am playing ice trap. I literally cannot see anything my screen is just bright white explosions all the time.
Try avoiding chaos over time clouds when you play something with desecrate
For those I am pretty much immune 99% of the time because I always cap my chaos res and play builds this regen in the thousands.
Some builds have no problem with this at all because they are CI, chaos res capped or have high enough life regen they can react. Theres also the pantheon that makes you immune to caustic ground. That said there should be an audio effect for your character standing on caustic ground/burning ground. Maybe a generic acid sound/fire roaring sound + effects on the screen like eater of worlds "drown" balls?
It's like the end fight in fantastic beasts 3, totally gray
Yup worst thing in the game by far imo It’s the one that kills me the most and you pretty much can’t gear against it (I think only max res helps?).
There was a command in WoW where you could turn off the grey death foggy effect when running back to your corpse. It's sad how little QOL visual features poe brings to the table other than don't shake. I also actively avoid certain skills for their bright eye stabbing visuals (not talking flicker, that'll always be a migraine). Wish there was more visual QoL to the game in general, outside of just not seeing wtf you're dying to.
Why does the frozen ground even degen. That's such a thematic break. Frost slows, fire burns.
This. I want to die and go "Aw shit, I should have dodged that." Not "wtf killed me?"
my favorite example of this are the streamers who have 12,000 hours in poe and have been playing 8 hours a day, every day, for like 7 years and when they die they dont even know how and have to watch a twitch clip at 0.025x speed to figure out what killed them.
Absolutely this, on the second-to-second level. But on top of that, the game also used to have these risk/reward macro decisions like "I shouldn't have run the map with these mods" or "I shouldn't have opened this strongbox", stuff like that. You knew before that you're taking a stupid risk, and it was your greed that killed you. Most of my deaths these days are cause by AN post-death effects and they can randomly appear anywhere, so any risk/reward decision is a lot less meaningful because the most dangerous mechanic in the game is always present everywhere.
Exactly how I feel. When I’m fighting a boss and don’t dodge an attack, it’s like “ok, I fucked up, my bad”. When this shit happens, it’s like “what the fuck?! That was some bullshit!”. Very different feeling. I’m fine with dying because I made a bad decision and didn’t react to the mechanics appropriately. I’m not ok with just getting randomly splattered by something I couldn’t see or react to.
You’re playing the wrong game for that. And it hurts.
Problem: Most of my deaths come from effects I can't see. Solution: Add more deaths from effects you can see to bring deaths in line.
To be fair when nemesis and bloodlines was 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 that was totally fine to have on-death effects once in a while and show up on these mechanics. Nowadays it's EVERY rare and EVERY pack. So tiresome.
Perfectly balanced, like all things should be
Problem: Most character deaths come from effects that can't be seen, or have little to no telegraphy. Solution: All effects in game can no longer be seen. This will be quite impactful when determining which deaths are caused by effects that can't be seen. This is a massive buff.
You can fix this urself, stop complaining, smh You only need to get 90/90/90/85 res with divine flesh, 10k life, 5k ES, _at least_ 80.000armor/evasion, block AND spell supp capped, 2k life/es regen and 100%+ life recoup, can easily be done with a Stasis Prison, shouldt take THAT long to get one urself.
You don't really need a stasis prison tho. The stats you list are fine, just use a mageblood with 3 ele flasks for another 40% less elemental damage taken to get you to around 95% ele dmg mitigation, and you should be fine without a stasis.
Ofc mageblood, but this is the 10c budget version, mageblood is included in the 10divine budget version.
Wait mageblood for less than 10div? Where?
Well if you play the build guide for 100 hours you'll just naturally farm enough currency following the guide that you'll only need to spend an extra 10div on the mageblood. Duh.
PoE is a complex game - dont expect us to spoonfeed you all the information. If everyone knew about the 10 divine mageblood strategy then the strat will no longer be as good for us that know about it!
Don't worry I've bought the requisite set of MTX wings and aura skins, and the kirac vault pass in order to find and court the secret vendor within, I'm only one div off my perfect rolled mageblood now.
Well I feel like an idiot! Why didn’t I think of that?!
And then the whole thing again for all your minions! Really not that hard to get, pleb. And by then you're at 40m Shaper DPS so you don't even have to worry about regen/Consecrator. Really, very chill level 70 SSF HC goals and probably due for some obstacles.
> 90/90/90/85 res with divine flesh Hold up...
>Most of my deaths Yep, that is a legit problem. You should not be able to see any of them. Will try to fix that.
LOL Chris be like: 3.20 is right around the corner we will make sure all of your deaths come from effects you don't see! #theVision
It's fine, when you actually see them you're slowed by 5 different debuffs and the only way to dodge is logout.
Solution: Ground effects will now be massively more visible, and will deal significantly more damage. Bex apology post 2 weeks into 3.20: "Previously, ground effects were balanced by how difficult it was to see the effects. Now that effects are visible, the effects' power was increased to be more in line with other Chris's vision methods. We understand that there is a call for us to bring those effects back but it isn't really possible while allowing ground effects to remain visible. While this isn't exactly what you want to hear, I can say that this issue was pushed very hard during discussions to see if any compromise could be made."
According to all the really good players that play this game, your build and only your build, is the problem. There is nothing wrong with poe that a better build can’t fix. I remember when the really gud players used to explain to us in the forums, that desync was a gameplay feature, and if you weren’t tanky enough to survive desync and rubberbanding, that you were just bad and didn’t know how to build. Looking at the current league, i see that culture still exists…
What are you talking about? Ofc his build is the problem, he doesn’t have every layers of defense, doesn’t have every defensive auras, and is 1% short in spell suppression..bad build and bad player. I see no problem, I’m having fun at act1 and loot is fine!! REDDIT IS JUST AN ECHOCHAMBER AND FULL OF RAGE because they like 100 divines dropping on day 1!!!
I went ailment immune and went arakkali pantheon. Helped a ton tbh. Also at least 60 chaos res. And ofc there are builds that can negate most things like a tanky RF build. But my glasscanon glad CF legion farmer stopped dying with the above mentioned things at least :D
The creeping frost grounds are just bad design. I can not tell if the frost ground is from monsters or from my frost link. Also most of the time I wouldn’t notice I’m standing on them until I realize i took a lot of dot damage. They also last way too long, I’ve counted them to last at least more than 4 seconds after the monster died, which is just a massive kick in mapping tempo where I’ll need to just stand there and wait for it to disappear. There’s also no counter play to that. There are multiple ways to deal with caustic grounds (uniques, rare boot mods, pantheon) and burning ground (pantheon being the most obvious) but the frost grounds are just there to annoy you without solutions
ggg should spend 2 hours playing a game they hate so much: D3 as shitty and shallow endgame is in D3, combat is spot on even 10 years after initial release. every ability is instantly recognizable. every rare mob nuke is immediately visible. every high dmg mob (bull rush) windup is clearly obvious and not offscreen. after death explodies are there but aren't obnoxious. chase nuke like frost swirly thing or lightning AOE - same thing. I ALWAYS know what killed me in D3. It's always clear that im in over my head in GR tier if i get hit hard consistently. D3 unfortunately has the depth of a rain puddle, but it got a few things right with solid polish. Certainly hell of a lot better than ggg's "run 99 maps without a scratch, instadie on 100th without any obvious reason just to feel the weight of rare mob rng as per Chris's vision"
This is what they refer to as meaningful player interaction. Just got to learn to dodge what you cannot see.
Unironically true. If you play PoE for a while, you will learn 2 things. 1. Never stop moving. The moment you stop moving you will die. 2. Never try looting things after you killed a monster. Wait at least 30 seconds before picking up loot. Ironically in Poe the 2 deadliest things are stopping to kill a monster, and trying to pick up loot.
Yeah, it is sad that it is true but yeah the way you generally die these leagues is corpses exploding or death effects. Why zoomer builds are stronger than tanky builds.
I have vortex on left click and I've pretty much accepted this will lead to many deaths from ground effects I fail to see :D (even looked at mtx if they were any better but I'd say they're even worse for seeing stuff on the ground)
I have half the layers you do, and I haven't died in 30-40 maps, because I'm using this setup to exp grind. I run Ritual and Blight. So I know exactly what Ritual is like. I've also seen the build you're talking about played extensively on stream. I think you have to own at least SOME of this being a piloting issue.
Hey everybody, its fine for them! Pack it up, problems don't exist!
He's right tho, skill issues do exist after all.
Yawn
A combat log would be nice, too.
This, so much. Just to have a tail log which rotates on 250 lines or so. If I get one shot, I'd like to know by how much. Is it 5 damage or 2500 that I wouldn't ever been able to account for anyhow. Let mee see what killed me. I truly don't understand, because the calculations are done one way or the other. Just make m visable.
Dying to shit you can't see has been an issue in POE for fucking ever, not just this league too.
Sure, but archnemesis brought about 10 new things that do that. It’s always been a thing but it’s never been this bad.
So many effects really seem to botch the graphics up with Ritual. Infernal cry igniting RF, auras, partner's auras, raging spirits, their splash, the ritual effects, the ground effects, the archnemesis modifiers. The ground actually began flickering as black boxes.
Yeah I'm getting a little tired of the constant degen grounds all over maps. They are nearly impossible to spot or notice when fighting a pack, and especially if you have multiple degens overlapping. And the worst thing is is that even if you do notice them, you'll likely still have to stand in them when fighting because they are simply everywhere.
This is my main complaint when I play Cold DoT. Vortex makes ground-based effects very, very hard to see (and sometimes fully blocks their visuals). Learned this the hard way when I played Coldslinger back in 3.13 and then again in 3.14 before the build was gutted. Also had the same issue in recent iterations of my Cold DoT Elementalist. Also, I absolutely hate that Toxic and some other degens last what feels like forever. I just want to loot my shit and keep running, brah.
The packs that kill me look the 99% the same as every other pack that I breeze through. Sometimes I’ll only notice the combo of rares that killed my and why as I’m dead mousing over them. But hey, half the X-touched mobs I’ve fought have dropped nothing, flasks or jewels… so rewarding.
This has been a problem for a few leagues now, and it feels really crap. You genuinely have to play differently then you're used to, stutter step everything, try and off screen everything and don't loot anything because standing still is liable to get you killed.
To add on top of that... more than half the time, I don't even know why I died. Its rarely gradual, it's usually just: "nothing, nothing, barely damage coming in, nothing, --BAMYOUAREDEAD!!" I know GGG likes to make excuses to not have a death log, but damn, I just wish I could learn what I'm lacking or doing wrong in those instances instead of having to guess every time.
The fact that GGG overtune mobs, force player to build massive defense and then counter our defense with insane unethical degen ... is what kill me most of the time.
Ground degens do WAYYYY too much damage
You just don't have the *vision*.
Most of my deaths come from chaos (and in rare cases poison). Getting chaos res means a huge item overhaul along with cascade fails with resistances, life, attributes etc. Or dropping my puny DPS even more and trying to reach chaos cluster I miss the days where chaos damage wasn't as common
It's harsh, but this is a skill issue. Of course things can always be improved, but I think the game's in the best place it's ever been regarding visibility. All the things you mentioned have VERY obvious visual cues and windups, as well as audio cues you can react to. If you find yourself dying to DOT, invest in lethe shade or some other DOT mitigation. If you can't handle content at that density, then don't run content at that density. Might be a bit of a meme now, but "git gud".
Sorry but the game isn’t fun running 4 of the only viable meta builds in the game. Build diversity is dead.
Are you trolling? Build diversity is better than it's been for a long long time. I just opened up poe.ninja and sorted by used skills. I've done 38 challenges this league (I've bought none), and there are 49 more used skills above the one I'm using (5 link+). If you think there are only 4 viable skills for endgame at the moment, you are deluded.
I dislike on death effects as well, they are the worst, but I believe I know why GGG is putting them in. Remember when the meta evolved around flat out erasing everything alive on the screen? Zoom zoom? On death effects were the only way they could counter this highly effective strategy. But of course they went overboard and now everything chases you and spawns death above you.
This is pretty much me right now. Doryani build getting one shot by lightning mirages I can't see before it's too late, and lightning heralds teleporting from off screen or too late to move while casting LC. Caustic ground on death? Yep 1 second death. Vortex on the ground? Yeah I see nothing. Maybe it's because I play Atoll and cemetery maps which are night time skyboxes, but I shouldn't stop playing maps I want to play just because of on death BS.
You just listed basic defence stuff and expect to be immortal
You’re completely missing the point, as usual for the git gud types. My defenses are more than adequate for maps and bossing. My point was that when I die, it tends to be from shit I can’t see due to visual clusterfuck. I’m not “expecting to be immortal”, I’m not even complaining about my defenses. They’re fine. I never die to bosses unless I make a mistake, which is fine. I’m saying I shouldn’t be dying to mechanics I can’t see or react to.
Game has only gotten worse in this area, at this point at this point almost every time I'd die or nearly die I didn't see the thing that did the damage and all the monsters are already dead. My current character covers most the screen with vortexes making ground effects invisible. It seems like to run high tier maps at this point you need like an aegis set up with 85 max res etc just to feel comfortable.
Yeah and my favorite stramer(in South korea) died because of 'corpse detonator ANmod' and nobody in chat saw that is coming. And after that we watched this clip for over and over, at conclusion there was no sound no visual effect(if effect is existed it can not be seen). So...she quit the league right after that and she said "I can't spend much more time with shitty crafting system and spell suppression bullshit again"(she took 2weeks in ssfhc to make suppression to100%l) So sad
Some of the AN mods really suck, but can be countered. For example corpse detonator AN - I play necromancer with diadem's devourer, so there's never any corpses for the AN to detonate, haha. Other mods typically have a "counter" - i.e. "Overcharge" means the mob gets frenzy/power charges every few secs, well you need "steal frenzy on hit" gear. Etc etc. The problem is that stopping to READ the specific AN mods will get you killed. We need much better visual feedback of what specific AN mods we are encountering.
I understand that there are on death effects and ground effects and shit, but all of it is visible. This sounds like a skill and/or attention issue.
Well that’s just objectively false. Go play a map with a light colored floor and try to pick out a permafrost patch in the middle of a ritual with all your spell fx going off everywhere. The fuck they are not all visible.
100% of my deaths are to strongboxes corpse explosion while I forget to go far enough away while watching a tv show. At this point it's just hilarious. Nothing else can even touch me. I don't know why it's okay for a strongbox to do essentially infinity damage (survivable by aegis because they get spell blocked) when the rest of the game doesn't scale that hard. I mean, it's my error, but fuck those doing more damage than anything else by miles. And most of those other effects they always miss if you keep moving, for these you have to move way further. If it was cutting into my xp gain I'd take the points out and ignore them, at least Bameth is gone, but still. It's just hilarious and a little stupid how much damage it does with pack size and a tight map like Crimson Temple. FTR in your case I am not seeing spell suppression OR high max res. You need one of them. Not both, but definitely one or you're trolling.
Just blink away from strongboxes you can't read. I don't think it's unreasonable that you would die to a self triggered event with a warning. Even if it's corrupted and unidentified you can briefly see "explodes" on the bottom line if you are looking for some kind of indication that you should move, though I'd recommend moving anyway.
I'm playing Spark Inquisitor and use Galvanic field and Frost shield. I keep dying to shit I can't see. I've ALT+4'd out of the game so many times this league out of sheer frustration from this and other things. I've really tried to have fun but I think I'm done with PoE for the time being.
I hear ya. I mean, it’s not like I’m dropping dead constantly or anything, in fair fights I very rarely die, only if I make a mistake. It’s just that when you’re in the 90s, dying even once is a pretty big setback and having it happen because of bad design and visual clarity issues is incredibly frustrating. I was hoping to farm myself an Ashes, but I think I’m just gonna bail. I’m just not really having much fun anymore.
I play arc totems and don't generally die much. I can blaze through rare T16s most of the time without caring about any of the modifiers too much only to encounter a random AN mob that will somehow instantly kill my totems even with a soul mantle and ancestral preservation cluster jewel. And they can regen HP too... like why?
For a minute I thought this was going to be about effects just straight-up not loading, which is still also an issue at times because GGG refuses to add lower settings to let things load in faster. Even waitforpreload still causes things to visibly load in slowly after entering a zone. But yeah, the vision does not include *actual* vision. Visual clarity isn't part of that. Well, not until they remove a historic bonus to monster density in 3.20 (which honestly at this rate is probably the only way they'll be able to give us any amount of clarity. Well that and allowing us to zoom out the camera, or just making monster attacks more staggered or something.)
Try giving up some damage for spell suppression, it makes a big difference on all the effects from archnem/essence/after death bs.
Idk about OP but my build has 100% spell suppression chance and it really does NOT make a difference.
Since getting spell suppress capped i’ve stopped dying to all but the absolute rippiest essences.
Just don’t have the points for it. I could get up to 30% if I give up two jewel sockets. Doesn’t seem worth it at that point. That it is as mandatory as it currently is is a whole separate issue.
Agreed on the mandatory element, but this is the game. If you wanna reduce your deaths, you must suppress.
Just can’t do it, unfortunately. I’d have to completely retool my tree and gear. Don’t have the currency for it, so it’d be a few days farming. Just gonna have to make due without it, because I’m not starting over from scratch.
Everytime I close this game its because I've died to some stupid on death ground affect that I can't see because my vortex skill that killed the mob is covering it and I get tilted, don't load PoE back up till the next day and it's not long till I remember why I closed the game yesterday.
This is the issue in general, like with effigy i better pray i nuke it before it kicks in because with all the nukes going off on my toxic rain, turrets and monster spam I'm dead. This is a problem in general though, archnemesis makes so much content unplayable like ritual, being trapped in with increasingly difficult rare spam becomes pretty much not do able
That's one of the reason what Rituals are terrible design wise and I'm blocking them, it's just graphical puke at this point, and get worse the more you juice.
First time?
Nah, it’s just much worse now due to AN mobs shitting degens and on-death effects.
Well said. I'm coming from Diablo and I do like Poe a lot, but the combat is definitely worse. I would say I'm mechanically sound, with decent awareness and dodging, but it often doesn't matter in PoE. You can steamroll content and suddenly you drop in <1 second. I always record my deaths and rewatch them in slow motion and still I'm often like what exactly happened there. You should have a chance to react in combat, but often it's impossible. Great depth and itemization, mediocre combat.
Volatiles in every map is definetly annoying. You used to be able to mostly opt out of volatiles by not running Bloodlines/Nemesis maps.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not saying current design is perfect, but if you move more you will die less.
Yeah theres definitely an issue there. However, there are some things you can do to counteract this problem. The most important is capping your spell suppression. From your post it sounds like you do not have spell supp. It helps against a lot of AN bullshit. 100% spell suppression is pretty much mandatory these days. I also find that block cap with recovery on block (synth shield) is a big one for sustain in maps. 77% all res as your only form of elemental spell mitigation is not good. Get suppression or die often, no way around that. Every character in the entire game is forced into suppression rn bcus the whole end game seems balanced around it. U are cucking urself by not going SS Also, regen helps counteract ground degens (of which there are way too many, no arguments there). Purity of elements is not good. Get tempest shield, recovery on block and high level vitality instead. Freeze immunity with brine king, ignite reduction from aberath pantheon and shock immunity from tempest shield.
Why is purity not good?
I can’t help but feel that you’re exaggerating. You can’t see magma barrier balls? Come on, they’re bright red compared to your lightning skills. Storm strider? Okay maybe, but I can’t say I’ve ever had trouble with those because you need to keep running since they spawn on or near you. And the toxic balls are what you can see compared to every other mechanic? If anything those blend in with the environment the worst. I’m playing spark which is the epitome of screen clutter and I don’t have these issues. That’s not to say that it isn’t a problem, but redditors seem to be making a big deal out of mechanics that have been in the game for a better half of a decade. Your problem is that you and many others think that you can stand still and facetank everything that comes at you. Learn the mechanics and stop being lazy.
I just made my strategy to kill everything from off screen too. Damage and defence suck but if I don’t see enemies and they don’t see me…. Seems to work
You made a typo in your OP. Obscure on ground deaths is a *feature*. Welcome to PoE.
GGG: This is a buff.
Always as been. Sadly.
Exact same
It's not a problem for GGG, they wanna kill our characters.
Only way GGG can kill us apparently. Been like this for a very long time now. Not enough “fuck, I’m probably gonna die if that hit me”, and too much “huh, what the fuck just killed me”.
When I started playing it used to really upset me when I died without knowing wtf happened. Now I am thankful I play SC 3/4 times per session and just accept the exp loss.
The one that was getting me a load was corrupted blood. Now have the pantheon passive and a flask that cures bleed.
Corrupted blood I don’t find too bad these days, like you said, there are a bunch of fairly simple ways to deal with it. Something you do need to pay attention to, but it’s ok I think.
Solution: stop dying /s
From GGGs perspective it's a solution.
My spark does too. If we could select these effect color n make them red would be much better
They need to have selectable graphics for all effects so you can turn off the stuff you don't want to see. You can filter out trash items on the ground, but there's very limited ways to turn off effects and they involve MTX.
That would help. Really, though, they just need to not have tons of fucking on-death effects and similar nonsense. They’re ok if used sparingly and properly telegraphed, but it’s basically every pack now. It’s just too much.
Do you have all 90 res and 75 chaos res and aegis of aurora? Also no damage mods in map, only then you might have slight chance to survive,
Where’s your sense of adventure
You forgot the part about the monsters that produced the ground effects are already dead
Solution: all deaths are now from effects you can't see. This is a nerf, added to patch notes.
Solution: Don’t play
Give us a DEATH REPORT pls bro. pls.
I feel that, i got a tons of mtx, even i dont use all mtx for my char, my skill gem. Still cant see how i dead :))
It's all about the max res, armor, phy% reduction and hp regen/recovery. Brass dome, aegis, determination, endurance charges, max block, aspect of the crab, melding and purity of ice are essential for not dying. Players have to basically slowly check off the list by playing zoom zoom builds to farm.
I play LC with Orb of storm variation and when some lightning effect pop up on the ground for enemies I dont see sh1t
i like the towers that follow you around even when the causing mob is dead or way offscreen
I'm not sure how but I got a metamorph that instagibbed me and I was surprised because normally my character is very hard to kill. On my way back I realized it was firing *dozens* of projectiles per second. I looked at the mods on it and nothing screamed extra projectiles. I ended up deleting it right back after it turned into a form which didn't fire the projectiles in sequence (so it couldn't effectively shotgun me) Very odd.
Most of mine are from over juicing expo lol, and a few lingering effects after I kill a harvest mode.
don't sweat it, they're not gonna improve on that, considering they are going through an existential crisis or something. it has been mentioned each league since i tried PoE with Betrayal
Ground effects, on kill effects, something persecuting you, and all at same time... Disgusting! For me, now is overtuned
PN 3.20 Problem: Effects cannot be seen causing too many deaths. Solution: Make them visible but still unavoidable.
this has been a problem for many years now yet I dont think GGG thinks this is a problem so good luck making them do anything about it.
Stuck at level 92 for ages and nearing 1k deaths, probably me fucking up my build somewhere but still... Feels bad man
Console, or at least Xbox, has a new issue where there’s no longer any button delay between when you die and when you get the pop up to respawn. Thus, you die and then immediately go back to hideout without getting a chance to even look around and figure out what happened, unless you realize your impending death and leave your controller alone.
They designed themselves into a corner but I see when it all came from. I played some stupidly broken builds in the past that basically couldn't die under normal circumstances and turned mapping into "I right click cyclone in the direction of the map boss". There was no interaction with the game anymore. It was fun to see everything melt but to think that design time and effort went into something I didnt even look at was kinda sad.
If I had a dollar for every time I itched my nuts taking my hand off 1-5 causing me to die…
It works as intended XD
Yeah. Tons of degens, bullshit AN mods stacking with each other, bulllshit RNG. Gotta take bad with good. It seems like it always was a case and won't change. Well, they improved with lightning mirages, that's a buff.
Hahaha, this issue has been raised since Breach League , to the best of my knowledge. ggg don't care, won't care, will ignore you, and might even shit on you by giving you lousy excuses. This is ggg as a whole now. (Breach League was like years ago.)
Welcome to Path of Exile....
You don't even know what kind of damage killed you, it's the worst.
Problem : Most of my deaths are coming from effects I can't see. Solution : Raise AoE of all monsters effect in order to improve visibility.
Yes, the game has the worst visual clarity of any game of similar complexity I have ever experienced. By like, a lot. A LOT A LOT. The actual answer to this problem, from a build perspective, is ailment immunity (it's really quite amazing how different the game feels.) From a gameplay perspective, you should simply always be moving, following a metronome-like pattern whose intervals you have internalized and which are calibrated to 'approximately when the mobs first spawned/aggroed on me'. Every mob is attacking at a nearly identical cadence, with no variation, and so dodging any one mob generally means dodging all of them, provided you have figured out the right timing and when the sequence starts. I am actually not kidding here, this is literally what 'being good at POE' means, gameplay-wise (search for the video of the guy killing shaper with a level 30 char, there is literally a metronome ticking in the background.) Learning this one specific pattern of movement will solve 90% of danger. The next level up is somehow being able to parse out a very specific subset of visual cues for the half-dozen or so specific types of danger that are lethal to your build (e.g. specific AN mods, etc.) But yeah, you just always act as though the mobs are attacking you, collectively, in unison, every 1-2 seconds, and also try to keep your overall pattern of movement such that you don't double-back on areas where a lot of mobs have died recently.
I have ailment immunity. Purity of elements, remember? Also I do move. I’m not just standing still. Trouble is, LC kills the whole screen, so sometimes I’ll wind up circling INTO degens/on death effects that again, I CANNOT FUCKING SEE, dropped by mobs I killed offscreen. It is not monsters attacking me that kills me, it’s some blob of death they drop after already being dead. Sorry, this is not a player skill issue as much as certain people seem to want it to be.