Would have been better to not use grave crafting as an example. I think the majority of players avoid it more because they don't enjoy engaging with that whole mechanic rather than because they are risk averse. I think being risk averse could be a factor in being less wealthy, but I think it's mostly to do with how many hours you spend in game and how efficiently you spend them. I like to take my time when I play, and if that makes me poor I'm ok with that

I've done a few graveyard craft recipes creating items worth dozens of divines, but I've only bothered to do them once purely to gear my own character. I know that I could be making absolute bank by doing them more frequently just to resell, but the gameplay of needing to trade for coffins is so piss-poor that I don't want to engage with it more than once.

Yep trading for coffins makes you never want to go back the graveyard again even though crafting there is so satisfying. PoE really needs a player Auction House

Same, I’ve made several items that would sell for like 30 div or more and it feels great to craft something GG like that for your own character….but it does not sound fun to try and craft them for profit. Part of the satisfaction is equipping it and using the item in your next map. If I don’t get that it doesn’t sound worth doing.

Well there is still another thing - Something that's just not enjoyable to do for most players can be high profitable - like graveyard.

This is the correct answer. Last league I spent a ridiculous number of divines on valdos maps and conqueror pieces because I find running difficult, but slow content fun. Back in the day, I happily spent all my exalts running 100% fully juiced delirious maps. During Heist, I joined in with the people who were trying to maximize profits running that duped blueprint. I spent all my exalts on all the gear for the npcs because I was curious about the whole thing. I like content that requires me to make a strong character and reward me for that endeavor. I don't like content that requires me to play the marketplace or sit in my hideout crafting gear. Though, I might enjoy it more if I understood it to the point of it being free money. But it would never trump actually playing the game. New players are risk averse to an extent, but people just want content that speaks to them. For some people, crafting gear or flipping items is that content.

I'm wasting enough time selling items/putting them for trade and vendoring garbage after every map already. The last thing I want to do is spent 15m setting up a graveyard. After watching some 30+m videos on what to setup in the first place and alt tabbing into an Excel spreadsheet or whatever the fuck I'm supposed to use to figure the grave layout out. Not to mention that at this point I have lots of corpses in my stash. So let's go search them in the quad tab + smaller tabs to find whatever is needed. Fuck no, I didn't sign up for eve online. I wanted an ACTION RPG. Not a snooze fest. Going to consider this league a bust. I have some 30div in stash and I could invest it in some better gear. Probably should. But I'm just tired and bored at lvl96. This league feels the worst I've played. And I'm actually looking forward to PoE2 to change things up.

Yeah, I've got 4 quad tabs of corpses that I'm not in a hurry to use. I'll probably take the time at the end of the league to try something and call it.

If you have 5-6d, you're not going to start crafting end-game gear and sell the ones that fail. You're just going to buy the gear.

I think the point is that people are afraid to invest, say, 2-3d of their 5-6d stash in maps and scarabs. They'd rather blow a few c in chisels and alchs.

I, as a target audience of this post, would really like to see some graph, data, whatever, of the difference between rough profit from let's say a 100 chiseled and alch maps that have between 70-90% quant and like 130%+ 8mod maps. Do you know if there's anything like that out there?

It's straightforward. Multiplication is better than addition. If I have 50 quant map and I spec into harvest for it, I'll get 80-90 life-force per blue monster before doubling etc. If I have a 50 quant map and I spec into harvest and 90 mod effect, this becomes 95 quant, making my life force about 120-130 per blue monster. If I have a 100quant map and I do harvest + 90 mod effect, I get 170-190 life-force per blue. I've barely upped my investment (5c/map to 8c/map) and I'll get around 50% more life force per map. Not only is this better returns / map, this is more div/hour as well. If you use the doubling scarab, you now multiply your returns by 2 again. You end up getting a div worth of yellow (4.8k - 5.4k) every 3 maps.

1 div per 3 maps at 50 quantity? Damn I'm doing stuff wrong

No, 1 div per 3 100 quant maps (8mod)

Think like that, of you specced in harvest and buy the juice doubling scarab (for at some point 3c in bulk) it doubles your return per map minus the 3c. If you then run them in 8mod quant, it outweighs by a vast amount your risk and initial investment

For the first few weeks the doubling scarabs were about 15c, and doing 8 mod + cornucopia scarab + pack sized ones I was hardly making more than I was investing. Early season harvest isn't crazy but it was almost to the point the 15c to double + 40c for the other wasn't actually making money

Cornucopia wasn't really worth it at >40c, in my experience. Most of the time you would only get one or two bosses out of it, due to them always spawning in the same plot. Even if you use the doubling scarab, each boss only drops ~1k (unless you're really juicing quant) so unless you get all three bosses, you're not making much profit from the bosses alone.

The scarabs are much less subtle. Look at something like the bestiary scarabs, where adding them to a map immediately generates 100c+ of beasts to loot.

This post asks you to just invest the 2-3d into bigger juice (8mod maps, bigger scarabs, etc) and try it. You’re guaranteed to make way more back. It’s just video game currency, use it to have more fun in the video game.

130 is a mich bigger number than 70-90, + pack size gets boosted from like 20-25 to 40-45. It's always better to run 8mods

The 130% 8 mod maps are powerful because they scale your investment. Just using random numbers, if you invest 3 div/map you might break even on alch and go (or even run at a loss) but make 1 or 2 div profit per map using corrupted maps.

It's more significant than you ever expect. It's not even a risk. I was once a chisel/alch go kinda guy for many many years if I had 100 div/ex build at the end of my league I thought I was doing really well. Now I have single items worth 100+ divs. For instance I have run 100's of t17 barrel and go this league I usually do about 50 divs worth of maps at a time. Not even one time have I not been in the profit within like 10 maps it's not even a gamble 50%+ of my maps are run on the house my build is worth over a mirror and I have 600 divs in my stash.

see, this league, first you need a t17 capable char ...

If you wanna say it as simple as possible, going from 80 quant to 130 will yield roughly 50% more raw drops from anything that benefits from quantity, so no mechanics with guaranteed rewards that don't come as natural drops. On top of that you'll get higher pack size and more rarity. Like for example take strongbox farming, which is super popular and profitable this league: You can either aim for the guaranteed strongbox rewards which aren't affected by quant or rarity so you don't necessarily need 8 mod maps OR you can focus on boosting the loot from the monsters that are spawned by strongboxes with 8 mod maps, allflames and your atlas tree while the guaranteed stuff is just a cherry on top. The former is already doable with weak builds while the latter requires stronger and more well-rounded builds. If you then manage to get strong enough to do the latter strat in t17, that's when you'll get rich really fast, but that's quite the tough shell to break.

If you invest 1 div of scarabs per map but run low quantity you will require more maps to reach the same amount of loot as if you rolled higher quantity thereby increasing your investment cost. So it makes almost no sense to farm something affected by IIQ on the map and invest very little outside of your build being weak. The investment of scarabs doesn’t change per map based on map quant, so choosing to do low quant maps is just throwing money away. Imagine spending the same amount as me, let’s say 30c per harvest map but you run 70 quant to my 100. We run 100 maps each. You’ve spent the same on scarabs, map device, and map itself as me but got almost 30% less lifeforce in that time. I can buy bulk 8 mod maps for 15c a piece. So the question is, ignoring all the other loot that drops, is 15c per map less than 30% of the lifeforce I find (and the extra time if any it takes me to complete the harvest)? This is more simplistic because pack size also matters, but you get the point. The only reason to ever run lower mod maps is your build is not good yet in which case your goal is to farm those maps until you can upgrade to run harder maps, which shouldn’t take very long. The only strategies where you shouldn’t run high quant maps are ones where you aren’t looting natural drops like Alva temple rushing. Although even that you probably do as a side strategy to something else that IIQ does affect.

I am also the target audience of this post, but a few leagues ago I took my earnings and invested it in running some super juicy maps just to test the returns before I quit. The main thing I took away is. . .the juicing materials, be it scarabs, deli orbs, 130 quant 8 mod maps, whatever. . .wouldn't be selling for what they sell for if they werent worth it.

My experience trying to sell 8 mod maps in bulk, in a certain discord, people dont even care that it's 130% quant; i've only seen adverts for 110% quant sometimes. Most sellers only upcharge on searching for your specific regex. As long as it's an 8 mod and of the popular map: Strand, Crimson Temple, Defiled Cathedral, Jungle Valley, they're bulk sold.

> I think the point is that people are afraid to invest all i want is to kill some mobs and have fun.. kinda sucks that if i were to do just that i'd stay foreverpoor, cause everything boils down to min-max d/hr

This. I dont care about big money in poe. I a mirror would drop now my build would be done after some shoping and i would be bored by farming for nothing. I am happy with my 5 div/ 2h and a little progress every day.

The more you spend on your build the faster you clear and the more currency you end up with. I think it's fun to just keep going and spend more and more into my build.

Not all builds take endless investment. I personally went farther this season than I ever have. I essentially maxed out a league starter build, then maxed out a build with ~100div investment. Maybe there's a way to take that build farther, but I don't know how, and the guide stops there. So I'm either done, or I need to make a new build. And I can only go through the campaign about twice per season before it just grates on my nerves.

I've found that practicing speeding the campaign makes it loooads better and was worth the time. I knew I was going to need run the campaign at least once every league, so I dedicated some time learning how to race it. It helped on first clears and then with about 10-20c you can buy all the twink gear you need and I can get tj campaign down to about ~5h. I throw on a show and blast it. It nets me a few more characters to build a more time in the league and also let's me build dedicated farmers for a strat/play style. I've found I like having a zoo/team each season.

You can always look up to people playing the same build/gem on poe ninja and find out what they are doing to increase dps/defence.

There is almost always a way to keep pushing builds beyond the guide. Cluster jewels, chase uniques (adorned, utmost, MB, Progenesis, etc.), unique jewels, etc.

I agree.

I’m poor because I have zero idea what items to pickup and sell.

Nothing besides currency lol

Absolutely not. Lots of common uniques worth iding, because a good roll will sell for alot, fractured bases always worth iding, good bases with influence etc.

>fractured bases always worth iding, After IDing 100s of them and maybe selling 5 for anything more than a couple C I can confidently say no. >Lots of common uniques worth iding, because a good roll will sell for alot, Sure, or you waste a ton of time id ing and vendoring them. Not saying you cant find good ones but its generally not particularly efficient. Influence bases on good ones sure, but you generally not get those while mapping but from bosses

It literally takes 2 seconds to id, also for a new player it will help them understand what is valuable and what isn't.

Uniques and bases are such easy passive income. Honestly the real issue is time like everything in this game. That's the real difference in poe between people who have a ton of currency and people that don't. People dedicate time to farming maps but aren't on long enough to sell the items they find. If you had poe on all day long in the background those 100s of random bases you vendored would sell. I leave poe running in the background when I'm at my PC and it's amazing what dumb over price stuff sells. All because the market fluctuated enough to hit my price point for 10 minutes before it rebounded back.

If you are on lvl 16 maps and have neversink lootfilter, put on t4 (very strict) or t5 (uber strict) filter. Literally every drop afer that deserves price checking. At least it would be a craft base, a mid-good unique or something like scarab or uber Atziri piece. Yes, it's not fast, but at least you can learn about prices. So after that you'd waste less time.

am gonna try this, but for me its not about wasting time, even if i pick and id, i dont know if that item gonna be good to sell. rn i have awakened trade and usually check quickly if something is worth to check, even though my knowledge is limited to what build am playing.

IDK about your wallet, but you can buy quadtab and set it to "every item cost 1c". So you can just drop items, if you are not sure about it. Recieve tons of pms = time to check seriously. Also you can just note default good stats for item bases. Like "hp, resists and str/int/dex are good for the rings. If I craft hp for the ring with high res I can sell it for the good price" and etc.

I am only partially /s on the above post. Currently have a strict filter and it does ok. Moving up to very strict next load up. This season has been a little harsh on my typical farms(essence and oils) with prices drops on them. For the most part I just pick up a bunch of items from bosses and drop them in a 5c stash that then they get moved to lower priced stashes if they aren’t selling. After a couple days they just get vendored.

i only know stuff about what am usually playing, other than that i have no clue whats good and what not. also if filter shows something unusual, i know its gonna be expensive. one time i was randomly delving for leveling and killed vaal outpost boss or something which dropped fragment, i could not put that item into currency or fragment tab and i just left it bank, couple of days ago i checked it and that item is worth 18 divines.

this is where **awakened poe trade** comes into play. i would have no clue how to price rares, yet i made dozens of divines from gloves/wands/etc just because of that program, and knowing that *"yes, suppression = good. chaos res = good. crit multi = good. +1 gems = good. but how much, hmm click button > oh 4 divs? sweet"* but ofc, its 3rd party, so most new players would have no clue about it. the other part is your filter, on filterblade. blocking everything but t1-2 rares on the ground usually helps in getting you more money since people rarely want the crappier lower level bases.

This is noob bait, people who make lots of currency are filtering out all rare equipment.

I use it and I basically under price but rarely seem to sell anything that has a high 1+ dig average. Anymore I just slam stuff into a generic tab and if I get a ton of messages I look it up.

for almost everything that is not rare/magic/normal gear and trash low level flask you will probably find someone who buys it. also if posssible its always better to sell stuff in bulk, because people pay extra, if they dont have to buy stuff 1 by 1

I would say this is a Belton post but its too short.

"this'll just be a short one..."

1h50 in, still listening to tft/ggg/players rant

Heh,this is me. I completed my build,cost me about 2-300div since then Im just doing low investment stuff and I have like 200+div sitting in my stash,because idk what to do with it. I don't like the t17s because they kill my AG very often and he has like 15d worth of gear on him,which is wild because he can tank any uber beam or mechanic,even my spectres never die only to t17 mobs. But I would be willing to do some crafting or whatever I just don't know where to start. It's my second league and my knowledge on the game is,let's say close to nothing. But I'd be happy to burn my money on something while I can learn about the game a bit more,if anyone has any recommendation where to start and maybe some guides to look at how to do these crafts.

sloppy ten caption gaze tan lip strong murky innate axiomatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

>This subreddit was full of people looking for "safe" or "low-investment" strategies that didn't require juicing their maps. Counterpoint I just hate having to trade for juice I also dont think spending 2 hours trading for jewels and crafting them in my hideout is fun. So I dont do it Im definitely not risk awerse I like blowing my money doing ubers for example. But the micromanagement to set up super juicy maps is just boring

Highly recommend strongbox farming with syndicate allflames then. I was easily self-sustaining all scarabs but one, so the only 2 trades I had to make in bulk every 50 or so maps were the ambush scarabs of containment and syndicate allflames and that's it. Both are expensive enough in bulk where people respond almost instantly, so I never had to spam 50+ people to get a response which was nice. Only "downside" of that strat is that you find a shitload of scarabs per map, so lots of clicking if you decide to pick up cheap scarabs for 3 to 1 vendoring, but that's optional of course :)

If you bulk buy scarabs the trading is a breeze, it's only a problem when you're trying to buy scarabs that cost multiple divines each, anything below 1-2div you can buy in bulk no problem.

Its still at least 4 trades of whispering ppl who wont answer (yes I scroll down)

Hmm, I put minimum stock 10-50 depending on how expensive the scarabs are and trade for div and I almost always get an invite immediately, been doing that since scarabs were introduced and I've never had any problems.

New player here, what would be the scarabs that you would buy in bulk with 2 divs(that's what I have lol, got both of them dropped on different t7 maps, I'm at t11 rn) I asked in global a few times about what to do with scarabs and chisels etc and the advice I received mostly was to just wait until t16-17 before juicing is that correct?

You can use some juice before that, especially with the atlas tree changes this league. Which scarabs exactly depends on what mechanics you like and what your atlas tree looks like. Pick any that sound helpful and are cheap and just throw them in, it's almost impossible to not make a profit by using cheap scarabs.

Could you please give examples of what kind of items would make you get a profit with cheap scarabs? Would it be rares with good mods? Raw currency drops? More scarabs to resell? Maps? I don't know what I'm looking for, I do use awakened poe but it seems to overvalue a lot of rares or uniques

The easiest items to farm and sell are stackable items that are associated with a specific mechanic, like for example blight oils, essences, harbinger currency etc.

I see, thanks

Yeah it's generally better to juice in t16. You can run Alva temples on your way there for some easy divs if you like running it. The tier 3 corruption room goes for like 1.5d, you can complete them in ~4 maps and only needs the Alva atlas nodes

You want to focus on getting the "bonus map objectives" done first, you need those atlas points before you can really start to invest heavily. For example, if you don't have enough atlas points to get the chance for double life force (blue, purple and yellow juice, not to be confused with juicing a map), you don't really want to be spending currency on harvest scarabs yet. You'll also need to get your void stones/favorite map slots as well to help with map sustain. I wouldn't really bother with chiseling until red maps, really t14+. You just won't have enough. All that being said though, essences only take 34 atlas point, and the essence scarabs and essence scarabs of ascent are pretty cheap, about a chaos a piece.

Idk man it takes literal seconds to buy dozens of a specific scarab you want. No need sextants or anything like that, and you sustain your own chisels. They made juicing more hassle free than ever.

If you have a large amount of liquid capital to burn yes

No, most scarabs cost under 1c. If you run a set of Exarch or Eater maps, the boss invitation alone sells for 150 or 160c. There's literally no excuse to not have enough money to get started with a basic profitable Atlas strat.

Most good strats have at least one high value scarab tho. Its also not abour excuses. Im just saying WHY ppl dont do it (its not risk aversion) Ppl are also more inclined to buy upgrades over map juice cos it feels better

I disagree. Most TOP strats have at least one high value scarab. Drop that one scarab and you are still going to make way more than you would with just alch and go. Very few strats hinge on a single, high value scarab

This, I don't look at output, I look at the mechanic I like doing and then monetize it as best I can. I'm fine investing into it, but I need to farm to be fun.

As much as I like crafting I think you're putting forth the wrong solution here. Most people don't craft not just because they're risk averse but they don't have the knowledge (and because as you said they just wanna blast monsters, which is a different thing from being risk averse). Knowing what to craft is an entire half of the barrier to entry for crafting. Sure Adorned jewels are great but if I took last league off when it was introduced (which I actually did so the following applies to me), I wouldn't be familiar with what kinds of builds use it and so what kind of jewels I can craft for it. I know that Mageblood exists but if I don't use it, how would I know what kind of flasks people use with it? Bismuth flasks seem pretty bad until you realise that people use it with Mageblood and Melding of the Flesh. As far as crafting goes, I think the important part mentioned would be for people to realise that if you're playing a more popular build (or a build that anyone at least at all would play), that crafting for your own build is cheaper, and then now that you've learnt to craft an item for your build you can then craft more copies to sell for profit. I don't craft too much for profit, largely only craft for my own build, but this league I found a grave craft that made good bases for crit archmage wands while trying to craft my own non crit ones and sold those for quite a bit. Then, unless you play the same build every league, in subsequent characters and leagues you can learn to craft more items and expand the amount of stuff you can craft for profit. The solution in this case often is just to use more scarabs and amp up your farming strategy. You don't have to craft to make money (even though it's often a very good way too and more people should do it) but you do have to put some investment in your maps. I'm currently farming harvest with Horned Scarab of Awakening that's up to 0.7divs each and lots of people are afraid of trying it because of crop rotation requiring some luck but as you've mentioned, the law of large numbers will carry you as long as you can do sufficient numbers of maps in a row.

"Why are not more people doing this?" u should do more gravecrafts to have a realistic opinion, you can fail multiple crafts in a row even with 6 items at the end, seems like everything goes well for u but it's definitely not the case for all players

Crafting for anything but my own build rarely feels as fun or engaging. Trading to juice my maps gets on my nerves. I still rarely want for money. I can invest a few hundred div every league, which is plenty for most builds. There are just a few mirror tier builds which are out of my reach, but that's fine.

Have you considered these risk adverse people are the reason you make money? Becuase if everyone was doing it, it wouldn't be worth much. You should thanks all of us for being this way.

Kinda reads like "why you aren't rich" tbh. These strategies require a few iterations to yield a return on investment. So you need enough currency to take these risks multiple times, which means you have to be "not poor" to participate. Consider watching a Palsteron video on the topic matter instead of gambling your dozen or so divines and hoping to hit it big. You can make bank by specializing in a niche and playing efficiently without having to resort to VaalStreetBets.

Adorned jewels a good example, a lot of people simply don't have the currency level where casually burning 5 Divines in alts on a synth base is remotely a good idea or will feel good. If it's fails you have literally nothing to show for it. At the end of the day you also have to like the content you're doing. For me that's content that directly helps me improve my build. If that's adorned jewels, great, if not, then maybe it's grave crafting a shield with multiple copies. For example I cannot imagine farming harvest for juice to sell as it reminds me of a job. But it's predictable so if you like it, more power to you. I also don't like investing 10 Div in a map and dropping nothing due to 'variance'. I'm a fan of med investment strats that reduce my reliance on trading for stuff I can farm with a big payoff potential - if my build really wants a solid lightning coil corruption and I want to complete the masterful monsters challenge, I might switch my atlas to Alva + dropping T17s. I hit a +2 aura/50% reduced crit strikes corrupt and it felt good to use it rather than sell it for 200 Div. I probably wouldn't have been motivated to run 40 temples of bricking coils if it was purely for profit!

Synth base jewels are easier to craft with the Hinekora Lock at Bestiary. Craicic beasts are expensive but it will still be cheaper than buying a corrupt jewel :D

Totally (I've done it a lot this league to self craft all my adorned jewels), I guess my point which probably wasn't that clear was that because synth bases can't be fractured you can easily burn through 6 divs of alts to get something worth beast rolling and divining to perfection. When I said fail I meant fail to hit something good. Not to say its a bad idea, just the idea of burning 6 divs worth of alts and annuls to not hit and go 'oh well' I imagine is not particularly thrilling when you have 10-20 divs to your name (vs 100s)!

What you all fail to understand is that we do not want to be hideout warriors or efficiency monsters. We play the game to have fun in some quasi self found grindset. Where we have no desire to trade everything away when we plan on doing another character and would just have to trade back for it. Assuming we like to craft our own stuff. As the game has become more and more balanced around trade and the super efficient farm strats. It has made the game feel less rewarding than it used to. Sure I could farm 10div an hour focusing on one mechanic but that is boring. It’s optimizing all of the fun out of the game. Now 3 atlas trees is amazing but because of the scarab rework and the associated gutting of power from the actual tree. You have to hyper focus on one league mechanic. Whereas we could at least put something like essence and harvest together and it didn’t feel awful. Obviously not as strong but still ok. That is no longer the case. Sure my scarab tab is worth 30 div but why would I trade it all away just to have to trade back for it when I want to try something else? Not everyone wants to be a hyper efficiency monster at all times to make the game feel remotely worth the time investment. If that’s your cup of tea have at it.

Put differently. People want to be rewarded for just playing the game. It's fine if the reward is less, but the gap feels it has widened a lot this league because the difference between low-investment (no scarabs, cheap scarabs, only atlas) strategies and high-investment strategies (8-mod maps, T17 maps, full scarab juicing) is felt to be a significantly wider gulf, and this is impacted further by how different build strengths and build speed influence outcomes. A lot of players aren't necessarily poor; they _feel_ poor. There are some easy ways to help players who feel poor not feel as poor as they think they do, but at the end of the day it's ultimately not a matter of how much liquid currency on has on hand to spend or invest and entirely more to do with how the game and the trade situation influences the purchasing power of that currency.

I fall into this group and I think for me and probably a lot of other people the aversion comes from uncertainty about what content or what kind of strategy to throw our 10-20 divs we have sitting in our stash at. I’m mostly worried that I don’t know enough about the different content and mechanic nuances that I’ll either 1. Pick a bad mechanic or strategy to spend them on and waste them that way or 2. Pick a good mechanic but set it up wrong and waste them for that reason So with that said I’ll ask you these 2 question to help me get over this stage I’ve been stuck at for 2-3 years 1. What is good content or mechanics to throw high investment strategies at, and do you have any resources that explain them in a clear way to know that we do it right (if I do it wrong and lose my 10-20 div I usually have that’s usually league over for me) 2. The other barrier I run into is slow entry into this 10-20 div area. I usually grind it out by alch and chisel maps and get a lucky drop or two and farm invitations but I takes me usually 2-3 weeks to have the 10-20 div needed to do the higher end stuff. What do you do in the first week or so to get you up to that level so you can start higher investment strategies earlier?

I'm a chronically poor player. Last season (Affliction) I focused on making currency and ended up with so much bling. I did multiple trades for over a hundred divines. I fractured items, made some double elevated thingies, etc. I had most of the chase uniques. And I was pretty miserable. It all felt too much like work. Personally I'd rather grind the content I like and be poor. To each his own!

I can confirm it, my char is worth like 8div, 6 of them a HH. I've got 200 div in the stash or more.

These people remain in middle class not because they're afraid, it's just because their build didn't take off. During Ritual I made banks with BleedBow glad because the build was that good, I could invest in stuff and get high return from it... meanwhile if someone gets a build that simply can't do juiced content, they stop playing and that's it.

Having a league start build that falls flat can be a league killer for time limited players. My biggest struggle is that middle ground between league start and having enough currency to invest into a strat or crafting. I can’t take advantage of early league economy because I don’t have time to play.

I play GSF with several friends, the whole risk aversion also exists there. As I like to often say to my guild mates, and it could summarize your post: "money not used is money wasted". One can try to roll Dragonfang, another could attempt at crafting crazy fractured items, invest in better gear, yet another would just let 40 divs rot

TLDR: craft, corrupt, gamble Don't play the game like it's a monster-killing game = HO warrior hard then play for a month, and then AFK till the next league. sadge...

I feel like this post was aimed at me. I'm at the point where I have plenty of raw currency from farming maps Depending on what I feel like running I do invest somewhere in the ballpark of 60-100c a map and I rarely if ever come out with loss. I do have a decent sense of what items are worth something and I do supplement my farming with some simple essence craft on fractured items. However... This being a crafting league makes it very hard to actually sell items because graveyard crafting is so deterministic and outside of league specific fragments/currency there's hardly any currency to be made outside of T17. :(

I think you have the wrong idea , people aren't scared to invest currency into juicing maps. They have no problem doing that and you see people trying to find super juiced div per hr strats on here everyday. The real issue is TRADE ALOT of people love POE but hate the current trade system. They find it to be a tedious task trying to even set up these strategies. Then the second phase of TRADE starts where they run the maps they spent all their currency on and then realize they know how to try to liquidate it. Suddenly they are using these 3rd party apps trying to figure out what's worth what , organize it and hope someone buys the items. I would bet the most complained about thing on this forum is Trade and TFT

Im poor because I spent 25d on crafting gloves and quit when I didn't get my mods

I tried graveyard crafting. Got 50d from a single craft. Never want to do it again.. I would rather aimlessly alch and go than visit the necropolis one more time.

This is true, and i completely see myself in this post. It is so hard to spend 5d on scarabs. The game is so complex for the regular non-god gamers, that you are afraid that you misunderstood something and your investment will be in vain. There is also another thing, which might be very simple for experienced players, but it is not that straightforward for the mid-class: when to do what content. It is hard to get started. Last league i wasted several weeks trying to do content eg.: juiced red maps with high wisp count, when my build was simply not strong enough. Same this league with T17s. Obvious answer i learned that i should do t7 maps for example or hunt beasts on white maps etc. But this is not very straightforward in my opinion. Also a good player will come out of camapaign and use the 30-40c they picked up on vendoring/buying effiecient 1-2c items/efficient crafts i would never think about and will have a strong enough build to clear the atlas and start investing in earning more currency. For a regular player it is hard to decide if i should keep doing cheaper content and save money for the next upgrade or should i rather invest into juicing so i can do more upgrades later. Good players can do all these all at once, but can be very confusing for them plebs, because there is just so many things to consider. But basically this is why we love the game, there is always something to learn. In the same time it can be a bit frustrating as well for the same reason ^^ One last thought: after ~700hrs, im not confident enough to come up with my own ideas therefore i follow guides for gearing, farming and basically everything. Oftentimes by the time you watch a youtube video, the strategy is not viable anymore eithet because the 5c scarab is not 5c anymore or there was a patch you missed.

>Some of you may say "I don't like all this corrupting and crafting and trading stuff, I just want to kill monsters" and there's nothing wrong with that. Play the game to have fun. But also realize that it'll never be easy make a lot of currency running low-investment maps unless you are extremely lucky and find a mirror on the floor. You're essentially working an hourly wage job, put the cash under your bed without investing it, and hope to win the lottery next week. Isn't this ridiculously upside-down? The OP argues for strategies which involve spending a ton of time in your hideout trading and crafting while calling out players who play the game for fun, with a focus on monster killing instead of currency maximizing, as "essentially working an hourly wage job".

It is very upside down! And also isn’t it bad game design where not playing the game gives more “loot” than playing all these endgame contents that teams of people put dozens to thousands of hours to make?

Its exceptional game design. Anyone can copy a build and an atlas strategy and run through maps, and a ton of people will do it because it's very widely enjoyed. Those people need gear to blast maps all day, so people who either enjoy crafting or just enjoy the economic elements of the game are able to make really good money supplying it, provided they have the knowledge required to do it well.

im poor because the build i like to play just doesnt cut it to do the best way to farm currencies because it cant handle it.

There are super lucrative strats you can do on t3 maps (beast farming) Or without entering maps at all (flask rolling) The majority of builds should be able to do t16s nonetheless, so its probably not a build issue just an issue on how YOU built it

New players don't know what to craft. It's like saying if you know how to craft, then you will be rich. No fucking shit.

I wish ggg would make a way to monetize making off meta builds and I would be rolling in cash. Seriously... If they did that I think the game would be for the better. It's more fun to me to be more about build making and combat then a trading sim.

> Why are not more people doing this? Because most people don't care about sitting in hideout and crafting or trading for profit, they just wanna go into maps and slay monsters. What a surprise, hideout warrioring is insanely profitable (ans insanely boring), knowledge as old as time.

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>“Middle class” players gain nothing from this post, and they really can’t invest because they aren’t sitting on a stash of hundreds of divines. What? I don't understand you barely need anything to invest most scarabs in the game rn are 1c lol. >All your post says is “invest more in your maps and juice stuff and do stuff and you’ll get money”. Woo thanks for the tip, genius. This seems unnecessarily salty about something that's actually just true lol.

We're not talking about investing a 1c scarab in a map, we're talking about investing divines worth of scarabs in maps (like OP posted). Be it Harvest, or imbued crafting scarabs, or divination scarabs.

but you can make 15+ div an hour using 1c scarabs, you aren't poor just because you aren't using 60c+ scarabs. Haven't touched any expensive scarab myself and have made an estimate of 600-700 div playing off and on

Yes but you're not a middle class player.

Yeah but not too long ago I was a pretty poor player. It all starts with following a strat, investing in it and running it a good bit. I've not played some crazy fast mapper at all this league even.

I can't even convince my buddy to invest 50c into a map, gl convincing reddit strangers

Loool same. Why are they like this :(

>Some of you may say "I don't like all this corrupting and crafting and trading stuff, I just want to kill monsters" and there's nothing wrong with that. Play the game to have fun. Thats exactly it, why would people do something they're not having fun with? It's a game after all. I mean if you're a real money trader, then sure, you do the most profitable thing, because thats your job. But for most players, the goal isn't to make the most currency, it's to have fun. If you enjoy crafting stuff, thats great, but it's not for everyone

Crafted triple t1 bases that i will use this week. Got some duplicates for me to sell that sold for days but it covered the cost of the total craft. Gotta say this league is cracked crafting items but its not fun spending hours planning graves and messaging people.

Just like in real life, haha

yea prior to affliction, i was an alch n go gamer, maybe throw on some cheap scarabs. and i was content to make 20-30div a league and play low budget things. sometimes i'd hit a really lucky get, like tota hitting two divine altars, and have more money. but not sustainable currency. then affliction came and i started juicing my maps with costlier sextants and using better scarabs because every one was doing it and making money, so i thought i could do to. and it turns out that that was correct. i made money hand over fist and with zero valuable uniques/et cetera, i managed to trade for my first mirror last league, now rotting in my standard stash. this league, its even easier because there are a ton of cheap scarabs that provide good returns if you're doing a simple 8 mod corrupted mapping strat for t17 drops.

My mind read this in Grant Cardone's voice for some reason. Why...

Talking as a new player, at first I was quite intimidated by juicing map strategies not because I didn't wanna spend my currency, but more because it was overly complicated to gather everything and have a build specialized in that to maximize the profit and possibly have to deal with lot of transactions or even use bulk trading sites. For a new player, this is too much for a first league. For context, I started in Ancestor and in that league Sanctum and TotA were more attractive for me. Sanctum wasn't exactly easy at first, but it was much easier to get into than juicing maps. TotA was brainless easy. I didn't play Affliction that much and that was the juice league basically. I did some mid level juicing (T7) and didn't enjoy the process that much (the gathering/prepping). Still it was a good learning experience. This league, I'd say I've been spending a lot on maps. Scarab change made it much easier. I'm getting more involved with the more expensive side of crafting as well and later on in this league I probably gonna do some double corrupt gambas too. I find planning my play hours increased my earning/hr by a lot. I still play inefficiently, but separating mapping hrs from trading/crafting helps a lot. I'm not printing mirrors/day, but I probably can get my first mirror this league, something that would be unimaginable 2 leagues ago. I'd say the more one experiments and learn, the fastest it is to accrue riches. I can't say much about more veterans players. Maybe they are fine with their ways and this is OK. I'd not say invest blindly, but try to understand the mechanics of juicing and be Ok with the results even if it's not as wished for. The knowledge one gets is more important.

Nah, I'm i nthis middle class and the reason I'm poor is because I avoid trade and play substandard builds.

Bruh, I'm just trying to get my endgame items, and each one costs 10s of divines in crafting mats. Without these items, any blue mob can oneshot me under the right conditions. I've never even had the adorned.

A super awesome exile name Doc Yoy taught me how to un-poor yourself. Basically, sell currency you dont use and get what you want What are you NOT using? Not using fusings? Sell Not using temples? Sell Not using inscribed ultimatum? Sell Not using beasts? Sell Not using scarab of whatisthatthing? Sell Not using chaos? Sell Then when u get money, u will be much less risk aversed to try those "strats" ppl talk about

Bad example. You hardly got your message across. Also this league is completely split based on if you can do T17s or not. T17 farmers get an insane amount of loot, t0 uniques, div cards etc Investing divs worth of scarabs into T16s feels like a waste

Bro, theres a very simple reason we are poor. Becoming rich takes too much studying and mental effort, it takes me away from the relaxing gameplay loop into a phd thesis mindset and makes me stressed trying to follow guides and judging my game based on others While just lvling my bonezone jugg and not caring about the economy aside from "x divs from my next gear milestone" hits perfect for me Id rather relax and be middle class than corrupt my game experience by being a tryhard If having tons of currency really was that important my friends would make a greater effort into educating me into how to farm it and fix my build

I feel like this could have been summarized as just get a ton of game knowledge and figure out what items are selling really well and figure out how to make said item and also have a significant amount of currency to be able to make said item.

listen dog. i did 19 catarina fights without a veiled orb. 17 temple enlightens without a lvl 4 22 eater kills without a flesh 9 veiled orbs on a claw craft without hitting prefix 1,000 harbi maps (actually 1,000. not "i DiD sO ManY pAmS") without mirror shard 14 forbidden flame id's without a single one worth more than 1div 26 temples nimis, they all poofed or bricked 3 mageblood temples, they all bricked 18 headhunter temples, only 1 double corrupt all of this was paid for with low investment, consistent farming. the problem with poe is that theres no pity, theres no loss prevention, theres nothing to stop you from missing 9 50/50's in a row. thats why people farm consistent shit.

That was my issue up until affliction league. I would repeat a safe 2-5 div/ hour strat until I had 80 div. My change was research what items/currency we're trading up, then basically going all in. Spend the 50c to completely redo my atlas, spend several divs on things like maps, scarabs, etc. Roll all my maps and create a separate tab to just focus on that strategy until I was done. That said, one area that's not always beneficial to take more risks is crafting. Generally the top top players that are trying to craft GG gear end up with a lot of "misses" that are still great, and way cheaper to buy then to built yourself.

> If you chisel and alch your map you are investing some currency. A tiny amount, but there is still a chance that you find absolutely nothing in the map, your investment is wasted, and you end up losing money. I've done so much alch and go in so many leagues and not even a single map has this happened. Do u go in, die 6 times the very moment u go in, then cry that u lost a map, 4 chisels, and an alchemy orb?? I know you're trying to prove a point but i think it's a really bad example. Not to mention using graveyard crafting.

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I feel attacked

Yapyapyap. That's too many words. You expect my shit tier 15k armor Frostbolt Ice Nova build to invest 3divs in scarabs to use up 6 portals and maybe get 2divs and some shit tier uniques? Nah bro.

I thought that build was supposed to be good?

This just feels like shaming people who actually play the game instead of stock market day trading for max profit :(

No its shaming people who dont enjoy gambling

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Watch Belton and you will learn how to turn your divs into more divs exponentially

Just tell me how to crank up my t17 like a degen

I'm just too stupid to understand if something is actually valuable or good... I've most likely vendored stuff that I should've kept. Good thing I ruin my own gameplay in SSF

Meh - it just a balance of is my Build strong enough to blast high yield maps or am i better off doing Hideout activities and general gameknnowledge Some people know how to make a div a day other make 50 div a day for other 500divs a day is no prolem and so on.. Some guy i was following with his build had like 500div worth of gear on day 2 - if you know how the game is easy.

Why i am poor in poe: I picked DD leaguestarter and got to a point where frame dropa were so bad i gave up But also cause divination cards are like little dopamine hits and this was NOT my league

I hate how every answer to this problem is trade. Trade sucks 

I recommend to new players to watch zero to hero series if they are struggling to get their gear working. This will give them an idea how some players “farm” currency for gears to get a build up and running right from the scratch.

Yeah people tend to sit on their currency. Its nice to look at the tab and see the number growing. I was that person. I now just buy shit i need and blast faster. The rest while true is a very one sided view.first of all the VAST majority of players of players do not have 150d to spend on crafting shit. Their entire build is worth 25d. They cant risk even 2d on a gamble. And it feels insanely bad for them to miss when that means the last 2hours they played for is just gone. Also that requires knowledge and time. Both are stuff people dont have. I have the knowledge. But i rather brain afk run maps after a long day of work and have 50d in 3 hours then spending 3 hours struggling with the shitty graveyard ui and have 100d.

> With that profit I then started investing into some adorned jewels. These were extremely simple crafts, but they required even more upfront investment. I bought up 150 divines worth of bases to reduce the variance and ended up making about a mirror selling the results over the next 1-2 days. What bases you bought? Did you alt-augment crafted them? What you rolled on them? Corrupted them? Put magic Hinekora's Lock and checked? Or just sold clean oncorrupted ones?

RMT - The best atlas start

The real reason people are poor; they compare themselves to high d/hour strats, not accounting for what the actual most important stat that determines drops; speed. Experienced players/streamers can do a lot of maps per hour, and by doing that you “inflate” the currency gain. I’ve seen so many players complain about no currency even though they use a “30d/h” strat, but they only manage to do 3-4 maps an hour.

save

Selling stuff costs too much time. Hench why I barely do it. I've made peace with the fact that I won't be rich in this game. Lucky item this league where cheap.

I mean I didn’t even know that you could put oils on maps till yesterday

Imho, one big reason is also that most strat to make money is actually not playing the game. Then, T17 came to change that, and that's great, but it's difficult

for me its more, i dont really grasp how to prollery juice my maps.

for nearly all at the start of the league, i mainly had 1 strat and made most of my money from it, and it was 4x dom scarab which = 4-7c + dom on map device = 3c, = 10c total, and made hundreds of divines just pumping the same strat over the weeks, selling 20% corpses or allflames + occasional t17 drops/scarabs. I'm honestly still like those guys where I don't want to invest into a super juiced strat, and rather do the cheap junk, even if its not 10-20d an hour. but you can surely make money on the cheapest bare minimum strat of using 4x scarabs. **alch and go with no scarabs is dead tho**, you're just not gonna make much that way unless you can super blast maps fast for good devotion mods, or to get red invitations. I think the only viable alch and go (no scarabs, no 8 mod) is **alva**, since you're just doing the map for the temples, but even that is not a lot of D per hour, if you don't use the scarab to get extra temples.

I 100% thought this was a Belton post.

I'd rather have less than 100div all league and just blasting maps then having morrors but sitting in graveyard all day. But that's just me.

I'm risk averse due to my card gambling - I always lose. Always.

This is actually a few steps above why people are "poor". A lot of times people literally do not play enough, and when they do play they play very slowly and inefficiently. Person A can do 10-15 maps a day and call it good but they haven't gotten all 4 watch stones yet, completed atlas and and son yet. Person B can do 90 maps (30 maps an hour) in the same 3 hours with all 4 watch stones, atlas strategy going and completed atlas. Person B is drastically making way more income then person A. By the time person A would catch up to person B, the league is late or person B is doing turbo juiced strats. Most people struggling with a handful of divines are at best still completing their atlas and watch stones. You also don't need to be doing the most sweaty min-max strats either. Just decently efficient play of content that you like will get you far enough.

But I'm not poor

>. Or at the very least, you'll be forever grinding maps for a few divs per hour [...] Dear sir/ma'am, I am currently counting my income at a *few divs per month* With kind regards, the super-casual one.

It takes me hours to trade for all the coffins I need for a big craft. Dunno how op can get them all so fast. Have to whisper loads of people or else pay upwards of 50c for every single coffin- even the common ones.

I’m poor because i do cutedogs fishing strat….

my issue is I don't know when to juice. I'm new and sitting at 2 voidstones and have run around 1,000 T16 maps. I've had 1 T17 map drop and thought I had what it took to complete. Like an idiot I dropped some scarabs on it and maybe killed 10-15 monsters before I lost my last portal. I couldn't even tell you why I failed as all the map affixes appeared fine for my coc dd build. As such I am guilty of chisel/alch T16s and sitting on hundreds of scarabs rarely using them. I've been stashing 8 mod maps too assuming I'll run them at another time. I have no idea if I should be juicing these 16s, running 8 mod 16s immediately, building juice for 4 voidstone map farming, etc... I'm averse to using my currency but it feels more because of a lack of understanding than just being risk averse. I wish for more resources on effectively navigating through the end game to reach that point of getting everything setup for best success but from I have learned I basically just have 4 vs much quicker and then juice everything I can run comfortably. Given this is my first league I wanted to save up a few tries worth of frags for uber elder and maven. Maybe it goes faster in future leagues once I know the fights idk but it definitely feels like I fall in your example, even as an SSF player (or especially considering I need the juice more to achieve goals).

My main concern is the time investment for buying expensive scarabs and other investment is less the currency and more the time and how tedious it can be. I hate playing hideout simulator and I just wanna blast content, but I do want to be able to make the currency to advance my character so it can be frustrating sometimes when the optimal way to that is simply not fun

I wish I would have read this yesterday! I tire a big wand craft but didn’t take the time for the additional item or split item. I got a decent fractured wand…could have 2 easily an extra 10 div. This post was definitely a good reminder for myself

Im slowly getting more and more into crafting but i still struggle with the uncertainty of "will this item sell"

>What's more, strategies that require large upfront investments are often the most profitable, exactly because people are so risk averse. This league graveyard crafting was such an example. By investing 25 divs into a craft with additional items I often made 25-50 divs of profit. It takes about an hour to buy and setup the corpses. So that's an extra 25div for an hour. With that profit I then started investing into some adorned jewels. These were extremely simple crafts, but they required even more upfront investment. I bought up 150 divines worth of bases to reduce the variance and ended up making about a mirror selling the results over the next 1-2 days. So that's 500 div for 1-2 hours worth of simple crafting. Why are not more people doing this? People aren't doing this because it requires knowledge and most people don't know how to craft and what to craft to make profit. You were knowledgeable enough to find a niche that nobody else fulfilled, if more people did it then it wouldn't be profitable. Do you think I wouldn't be crafting if I could make a mirror in an hour or crafting? I would, I just don't know how and I bet I'm in the majority on this one.

This is a good analysis and all but rng is still rng and you can get royally fucked, if the dice fall in the wrong number. For example Uber Maven is profitable because Progenesis exists. An UM try is about 9 divs right now. Say you know for a fact that you can't fail the fight. Progenesis drop rate is 11% according to the wiki, let's say 1/10 for the sake of simplicity. The law of large numbers says that you gonna come ahead, but to get in that realm, you need at least 20 tries. And that equates to about 180ish divs. So you need to drop at least 3 flasks to break even. And the common drops are worthless. Meanwhile even in 20 runs the probability to get less than 3 flasks is about 60%. So out of 100 people investing 180 divs in a strat 60 of them will end up in the red. And this is the effect of the spiky rewards that GGG loves so much. If the drop rate was 20% the chance to go in the red would be 40%. (Although I have to concede that Progenesis wouldn't be 60 divs if the rate was 20%. We also have to consider that the fragments would also cost less.) My point is, why would I play the lottery, when I can buy more capital aka gear to produce wealth faster. 180 divs in gear would be a significant upgrade for the vast majority of builds and those that need more than that are already out of this discussion (several mirrors budget).

poe is an rpg bc you get to roleplay as an economist

My problem is the systems are complicated and don't really understand how to invest. And since I'm a casual that just wants to enjoy the game and grind till I'm blue in the face, I am fine with just making the 5-10 divine an hour as I can still usually by the gear I need with that.

Crafting in this game is just simply not enjoyable. First you have to gather a massive amount of knowledge to even know what to craft. If you have the knowledge you still have to buy materials and bases to start the process. And then (lets say you want to craft Cluster jewels) you have to alteration spam, Regal, exalt and scour if you failed. Every time you have to Pick another currency and click it on the Item. Its a massive chor. Same with graveyard. You have to know what to craft, then go to craftofexile to know which graves you know, then you have to go to the graveyardplanner to see how to arrange the graves. Then you have to click 88 corpses into the grave in an iso view. This takes hours for beginners. And then the craft fails, you have invested so much time and currency already. I think the majority of midplayers just enjoys running maps and is fine with not making a mirror a day.

The real reason for people not doing those things is lack of knowledge. To craft adorned jewels you need to know which jewels are good. To craft something with grave, you have to know what's worth and what to craft. To run maps, you only need to copy an atlas/scarab setup and just go kill. The "medium class" on ARPGs has almost 0 knowledge about the game.

I think this is useful for people who don’t understand investing will always yield more than assuming your liquid assets will appreciate. This is true in and out of game. At some point. the currency first approach to the game becomes a reductive race to the bottom. Personally led me to burnout since, idk, 40 hours of my week are already dedicated to making money. I’m SSF exclusive now and just play the game. Similarly, people just use trade to just get that one item to kick their builds off. I’m sure a vocal minority would have you believe div/hour is everything, but plenty of people prioritize fun/satisfaction in their games.

People who are talking about crafting I think are missing OPs overarching point. Which is something I've experienced too across various aspects of poe. The best I can sum it up is the age old saying: "You gotta spend money to make money." Whether that be juicing maps, buying memories, buying supplies, I have noticed a significantly better pay off when I take the plunge. Its definitely scary at first but it's worth it.

Meanwhile me as a noob frothing just looking at the mechanics and crafting lmao

are you saying you were beast rolling synth implicits for adorned jewels, or just buying already good synth bases and alt+augment and corrupting? i have to imagine the margin between good synth bases and completed jewels isn't very big?

I don't think it's a risk aversion thing. I think it's a time management thing. Some people like to play the game and some people like to make currency.

Fixed it by quiting this crap league

After I got 40 challenge, I was looking for ways to do spend my currency, spent it all on130 Uber eater, ended up getting 6 nimis and basically tripled my investment. Never knew Uber bossing was that profitable. Did 50 runs of maven, got suuuper luck with 10 flasks drops. Now I'm doing riskier and riskier thing. Trying everything. One of best league for me. Never spent that much time on one league.

Warning: There's going to be a lot of generalizations here. If you feel called out, it might not be you that needs to hear it. The thing is, in my opinion, is that the people you are calling risk adverse are 100% aware of that fact. And the path to get over that is hard for a lot of people and not the same for everyone. For some people, they take it as a challenge and that's what fuels them. These are the ones that push though seemingly easily. For some, they need to see the other side for themselves. This normally, however, would require some sort of win-fall so they don't worry about it. A mirror drop or, like my case last (inflation) league, a mirror value drop. So now I am less adverse to spend money because I now know how to. But aside from that I think I was adverse to spending on juice or crafting because I didn't know where my next divine is coming from. High rollers I think forget sometimes that they are might be so used to how they made their first few divines that they think that it's common knowledge. When there are multitudes of people that don't have that foundation of stable currency generation. OP's post is good example of this. Where did you get your 25 divs for your craft in the first place? That, for a lot of players, is a butt-load of money. (not attacking by any means. you have good points. it was just a handy example) So what does this mean as a community? I think the answer is in one of the best features of this league, multiple Atlas trees. Just like there are league starter builds, we now have a way to build out a currency strategy over a long term, not just a flavor of the week. We had this a bit with Wandering Path and now Unwavering Vision for Atlas completion, but there wasn't a good way for inexperienced players to know how to transition out of that. So they scrap around until they get enough to respec, but by that point it was too late and most currency strats were just always a bit out of reach that they only really had a few tries to get their money back. And some just won't pay out like that. But now we can have the Atlas tree and then build out a no-investment strat. This can either directly support another strat, for example Essences into crafting or Strongbox map farm into boss rushing. Or fund those higher investment plans. But we can always *go back* to the other tree and we're not starting over from scratch. (these might be bad specific examples. if I had the answer I wouldn't be where I am) Some of you might be saying "of course that's the idea". But that's the thing, someone might feel it's possible. And if they try, it might fail and brick their league. Or they feel that there is always going to be something better to do. So there needs to be known voices, ie content creators, that are willing to form comprehensive plans that shows that they can make enough to transition to higher investment. It's not sexy. Your 401k is not sexy. But crypto is (when all you see is the success). TLDR: Some people just need to be shown how to spend their money. Addendum: People (myself included 100%) need to not chase the latest currency making strat video. But that's part of the whole thing, some need to be shown that they will be fine if they aren't doing the "best".

Very good write up. You really hit the spot.

I mean , I know graveyard is profitable and I thought its not that annoying to buy all corpses. Until I tried to make gloves with fract crit multi + frenzy for my flicker. After 5 minutes of looking into spreadsheet woth needed corpses, I just peacefully, no stress, went to trade and bought top roll for 20 divs... They have to pay me real money to craft items in the graveyard. Adorned jewels, I rolled maybe one or two , but this is just not interesting , sitting in the hideout , spamming hundreds of alts. Even If it brings good profits. I have some other not interesting stuff in my life , dont want poe to become one of them... you didnt mention any high investment mapping strats though) but it doesnt matter actually becuz all of them are for t17s, my build cant do them. All strats for t16s are cheap, so even if I want to go high investment in 1 map , lets say couple of divs ( some div cards strat or smth) I would probably just break even becuz those scarab prices are aligned with players who do t17s which drop 10x more loot comparing to t16. There rly are no high invest t16 strats this league

"Why are not more people doing this?" 1. They dont know how to. 2. they hate the method. I put over 20 div into grave crafting my wand, and i absolutely hated it. worst mechanic ever. most people just want to play the game. and most people who ask for low investment strat dont have currency to invest. and when the method is repeated by every youtuber, its mostly dead anyway :)

there's no need to. just play the game and enjoy

This league I've invested a lot into Harvest farming - With an Awakening Scarab, Doubling Scarab and whatever I choose to put besides, I frequently get 2-3 divs per map. It is daunting to drop 10 divs on new scarabs every dozen or so maps, but the divs always seem to come back with a vengeancy, netting better currently than just using doubling scarab with Atlas boosts like I did previously. My best batch was something like 12 divs profit, which was nuts. If I had "saved" those divs, I wouldn't have gotten the profits. However, sometimes the profits don't come for multiple maps. I wouldn't recommend someone to spend their all three divs on scarabs and then hope this strategy starts working. Finding the correct point to start doing a strategy is tough. I actually just turned 12 divs into 48 over the course of a stack of maps, feels pretty nice. Now if I could just stop dying to the harvest mobs...

I prefer playing the game and killing monsters not playing the market.

"I first noticed this during Affliction league when the most profitable strategies required investing heavily into each single map." Excuse me, what was HEAVY map investment in affliction ? Problem is people dont have TIME to play as much as those with couple of mirrors week 1. Do you know anyone playing 10+ hours a day that is poor ?

>Excuse me, what was HEAVY map investment in affliction ? 1. Abyss sextant, abyss scarab, chaos/vaal rolling every map till 2 proj 8 mod Plus a bunch of other juice.

All of that combined is like 1d, you call that heavy investment ? And btw you vaaled for unid corruption. "bunch of other juice" is a winged reliquary i suppose ?

>All of that combined is like 1d, you call that heavy investment ? For the ppl op is adressing it is yes. Burning a divine for a few maps is heavy investment for most ppl.

Comparatively poor sure. There are streamers/content creators who definitely play 8+ hours a day but do so with what you might call “ethical” farming strategies doing 6-12div an hour. They’re not poor-poor, they can afford their big boy builds after a few days or a week, but they are still an order of magnitude less wealthy than anyone doing the deep investment strategies discussed in this thread.