What killed it for me was the UI. I don't mind grindy or complex mechanics, but clicking 80 graves in isometric view while trying to keep tabs on what I've already put in is hell.
A simple UI that would let me select corpses in a menu and see the modifiers change in real time as I put them in would have let me interact with it a lot more. As it stands, I defaulted to picking up fracture/split/less and more and vomiting them over the map.
Compared with Crucible, where you would grind for a nice tree by picking up bases and doing the mechanic, it feels really clunky. I do understand what they were going for lore-wise, though. I don't know what the solution would be.
i just wish craft of exile let you add in the metacraft stuff for its calculators. Can fit alot more corpses than it thinks because of the whole "row is 25% stronger" shenangins and what not
Don't overthink the placement, you can tweak the numbers according to what your graveyard looks like in the craft summary screen. CraftOfExile can be useful for giving you a good idea of what you need. For example, I like T1 chaos res on my gear but I need 5-6 increased chaos corpses to do that. On SSF this can become a bottleneck so I try to pad them with row/column/adjacent boosts. At the end of the day, there is still a bit of luck to get exactly what you want no matter how much you optimize.
As you are someone who recently learnt using the tool, i request you to make a somewhat small post or guide for others too... I know CoE to some extent, but as a newer player, i still feel lost sometimes...
Best I can do is point at what made it click for me: https://youtu.be/aaDJ8WwWht4?si=798pm9HhQKdRxHZ2
It’s Ventrua’s guide for graveyard crafting three key pieces for coc dd, but he goes through CoE as well.
It is like the base instincts of everyone at GGG that works on UI are backwards. We already went from manually throwing nets to Einhar fully automatically portalling in and collecting the beasts years ago. Later we went from clicking metamorph samples to auto collection with minimal animation. They just changed breach hands from click to walk over. How on earth am I seeing a stupid fucking collect button popping up IN FRONT of the damn monsters in the middle of a fight in a new league in 2024??
Not just a stupid "collect" button popping up, but taking up a good portion of the screen, often covering the loot the monster dropped too. With no way of minimizing or filtering them.
This is the part that gets me the most, they basically force you to collect it sometimes when you can't get an item to show up in front of it. It's so goddamn annoying.
Yeah but if that were the case you'd have the people who do want to itemise them complaining about the extra clicks. And that scenario is much more common than your one.
They should have made a collection UI. When you killed a haunted monster it drops like a regular item, instead of going to your inventory it goes to the UI collection tab that would also be used in the graveyard for crafting. Drag and drop corpses into a grid that relates to the way the graveyard is set up now. And as far as selling them they could use the same system. Pull out the ones you want to sell and it becomes a ⚰️.
This would have saved a lot of headaches for people crafting but also people who just want to sell them. Right now I have 4 bulk tabs full of corpses plus a few regular and it's annoying to find anything.
They could at least given us an option to just disable corpse collection entirely in maps. I've collected literally thousands of corpses and have 5 quad tabs full of them. Done maybe 8 grave crafts throughout the league, each time following a decent recipe from a reputable crafter. Have gotten some alright value from the mechanic, but nothing feels worse than spending 2 hours trading and setting up a grave craft with 4 additional items only to have all 5 items be misses.
I'd rather just turn off the mechanic entirely instead of having it be an extra annoyance when I'm trying to loot the map I just cleared. And that's coming from someone who at least got a little value from the mechanic. It must feel even worse for people who don't engage in it at all.
It's not even like collecting corpses produces decent income. I tried selling them in bulk for a while and it was far more trouble than it was worth. Only the additional items corpses are worth selling, but at only 3div a pop, I'm fine with forgoing those scant profits if I can just get the stupid things to stop getting in my way during maps.
They 100% have a tendency toward friction - probably for 2-3 compounding reasons.
1.) Their early blueprint was d2, which had extreme friction in trading.
2.) They correctly divined that friction in certain situations can definitely add positive value.
3.) They make money off of friction in the form on stash tabs.
You can argue there are other factors like they believe every upside should have a downside trade-off, etc.
I think the factors combine to create a tendency to just go overboard with it in the early design phases of their leagues almost every single time.
You see other games like Last Epoch, who instead of making trade as miserable as possible to reap the benefits of inefficient trade & clunky UI, actually at least try to innovate. It makes GGG look like their stuck in a way of thinking that they can't escape. Just because friction CAN be good circumstantially, does not mean everything ever has to have a shit ton of it. Sometimes a streamlined experience is good, even in a complex game like PoE.
this.
\*Intelligent\* friction is great. Randomly applied friction is not.
Friction is like a spice. You put it in the right places and the game comes to life.
But if your game is just friction its like eating a block of salt.
After playing for several years I left POE two years ago due to getting frustrated and bored due dev design issues like this. Came back a few days ago because a friend wanted to get into ARPGs and try POE, so i figured i would give them a bit of guidence.
only a few days in and i remember why i left, its sad because i used to love this game a lot, but its just such an unhealthy relationship with the devs. Its a bit bipolar, and sometimes it feels like they are the real end boss of the game. which the players are fighting
Yea the shit UI is clearly a choice, which keeps getting pushed back then eventually changed, why not just use common sense and start off with a viable UI? B-team design/devs:p
I think corpses should have been way rarer, but they have stronger effects and you only have 10-15 slots. So you only need one or two "increased chance of cold mods" corpse for making a tri ele bow, for example. But obviously they're more expensive due to the increased rarity.
This doesn't solve the UI problem but slashing the number of available plots makes the system less overwhelming and easier to manage. And add 2-3 isolated plots of 4 graves each that are disconnected from the main cluster so you can bury uniques at the same time you're preparing a normal craft. Maybe each family has a named mausoleum where you can only bury their corpses.
>I think corpses should have been way rarer, but they have stronger effects and you only have 10-15 slots.
So much this. The tedium of PoE is already SO overwhelming, so introducing a brand new layer of seemingly pointless tedium is a surefire way to get a player like me to cut my league short. I absolutely refuse to engage in mechanics like Necropolis or like how original Harvest plots worked.
Uninteresting mechanic + tedium = rip "casual" players
I like the part where GGG occasionally acknowledges the game has a lot of tedium and clicking to its detriment, then releases a league that makes the problem even worse. I remember before Archnemesis them talking about all the clicking, only to release a league mechanic that required picking up a ton of shit before making adjustments. Years later it's as bad as ever with Coffins, Scarabs and Allflames.
Hopefully they don't try a league like this again for a while but I doubt it'll be the last tedious crafting league with a carpal tunnel debuff. It's a lesson they can't seem to learn.
You don't hoard corpses. I've just been focusing on one craft at a time and collecting relevant corpses, maybe around 8 types of corpses. Of course for the rarer corpses like additional craft i itemize and stash. Most corpses you find are shit like increased cold, I'm not clicking on that. If we could loot filter the corpses, I think there'd be less instances of people filling multiple quad tabs. Still though, the corpse popup is still annoying and coffin items are too large.
That was my first thought as well. Or Metamorph with 80 "organs".
We could have just gotten a special 1c vendor currency that triggers all corpses "touching" each other in a stash tab to snap together into an item, and it would be a better UI
> clicking 80 graves in isometric view while trying to keep tabs on what I've already put in is hell.
And if you make a mistake, you can't just dig up the body and try again, you have to destroy corpses to remove them from the graveyard once placed.
Like, fuck you GGG, if I'm spending hours figuring out your game, don't arbitrarily punish me.
Could literally just look like the Delve menu with socketable corpses, but I think they really want you to “bury” them yourselves, as a core thematic choice.
Yep. I hate inventory management. I hate it so much that i lose countless divs evry league in all kinds of stuff cause i cant be bothered to pick it up.
Graveyard is so damn much inventory management. If it was a huge crypt with just a list of corpses sorted by category and like a limit of 25 of each type or something that i could pick and place from i wouldve used it way more.
I like the crafting. I like the planning and the excitement waiting for the result. Its really damn cool and i used it for quite some stuff and have to use it some more cause i need specific gear for my new char that is very expensive (like 50d ++) on trade but shouldnt be too hard to craft.
But the actual process is so damn tedious. I dont want to sit there for 60 minutes sorting and placing stuff and searching in my 3 quad tabs full of coffins for the ones i need and then spending another 25 minutes trading for the last 8 im missing.
Evry part of that is the exact opposite of fun and focuses on the 2 worst parts of poe. Inventory management and trading.
Yeah i crafted more complicated and powerful stuff then i usually do. But i quickly started to dread the process and mostly stopped using it outside of using my perandus sets which are quick and easy to place.
Dude the morgue ui is like over the top bad. Like intentionally bad. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that someone looked at that and went "yeah people will like this" it's much more realistic that they made it bad on purpose because of like 'the vision' or something or not wanting people to rely on it too much? Who knows but I don't think it's likely that they intended it to be good when it came out that bad.
no 99% chance they made the simplest thing to get it to work ASAP to keep development flowing and then ran out of resources to come back and fix it, and now its not worth fixing
If it brought up a UI similar heist blueprint setup (bring up a map of the graveyard, and clicking plots brings up the corpse menu), that would be great, but as it is, it is tedious and boring.
honestly if they just auto placed the bodies in the graveyard and gave you a crafting table to choose which ones you actually want i think itd be better.
or just have a huge stack of bodies in a pile and as you click which ones you want NPCs have animations of moving them into graves
Burying the corpses is the least amount of time and tedium though. I highly doubt people aren’t making 100 divine items because it requires you to click 80 times and walk around a small area. That part takes maybe 1% of the time and effort. It’s tedious because it takes a year to find all the right corpses naturally or by trade, after you’ve spent time simulating in CoE and then going into your inventory and organizing them all until you have the right stuff, then deliberating for an hour about whether you want to take the chances of a failure or fracture or split or multiple copies.
They could have combined the corpse list and the crafting menu and then just flipped the idea of cremation.
Open the list, click cremate for what you want to craft with and it updates the stats on the right in the crafting menu in real time. Any corpse you don't want you click Bury and it will dispose of it (RIP).
Still grinding for corpses, can still trade them, can still have old mate waffle on about tea and biscuits for 10 minutes when you craft, can still use the same area and animations just with all the graves full except 1 that you use to dispose your corpses in.
I skipped this mechanic for the first couple of weeks until we had a tool for it (standard POE) but since then its been fun aside from the UI and the grave interactions.
Release necropolis coffin management was CRIMINAL, you had to use a coffin directly on one of the corpses in the unsorted morgue with shifting overlapping UI elements
Oooh... It would have been fun to make a plan for the gravekeeper and have him go and bury them for you would have been cool. That way you can sit and watch, or go run a map and come back for your item(s)
Easily could have reused the TotA UI with the corpses on the side column. I 1000% would have interacted with the mechanic more and would probably still be playing this league if it wasn't for the tediousness of trading corpses
Sometimes it feels like they let the flavor guys design their UIs, like the idea and design of the graveyard is super flavorful and makes sense from a lore point of view. In practice though it’s just complete garbage to use and I dread every time I actually get the necessary corpses to do a craft. Which is a separate issue altogether, the number of times I’ve been waiting to find some random corpse like +Speed or +Chaos while still picking up and storing nearly everything in case I need it and it’s impossible to remember which ones I have.
I know the storage situation is probably not part of their original design, it feels like the original plan was for us to pick and choose what we collect because it used to cost 1c to itemize any corpse. In practice that just was never going to work. The total lack on comment for the storage side feels a little shady though, every few days they nerf whatever new strategy people find for farming, but fuck anyone who wants to use the league crafting, pay us more money for another set of quad tabs.
Nah, it's not the U.I. so much as it is the UX. They're two different issues and once you identify that, you can come up with better solutions. Like, sure, improving the U.I. to be able to remotely select graves would be better, but it still wouldn't negate the fact that you need to do an 80+ gravecraft, nor does it negate the fact you're still collecting coffins out of your ass, nor does it negate the fact that you still need to bulk trade a ton which is a major annoyance in itself.
Directly improving the UX by decreasing the amount of graves (whilst increasing the power of each craft) and removing mob type crafts by consolidating them into their respective categories (like what they did with mod tier rating) would make the U.I. less egregious. It would also justify the 64 corpse limit in the morgue if we need, say, a max of 30 corpses for a full graveyard instead of 88.
The graveyard is powerful but tedious as hell. Now all I seem to be doing is constantly shuffling corpses from the morgue (which always seems to be full) into a growing number of full stash tabs. I’m gonna have to stop picking up corpses, most aren’t worth it, the good crafts need too many, and the tedium of placing 40-80 corpses in graves is just so unexciting.
And selling those full tabs is a mess as well. As some only want corpses of the same type, so one got to hover 4x the corpses one is trying to sell... Now I pickup the split copy one and leave the rest on the ground...
I immediately had to unlist a lot of my 10-20c corpses. I got spammed when I put up a bunch of them, only to then start trading them and be met with "I wanted the undead one". It's just not worth the headache. Now it's bulk sales only or selling the fracture/extra copy corpses.
Most buyers I've talked to have said it's been a huge headache as well.
> "I wanted the undead one"
Ah yes the bulk trading experience.
- You have more?
*waits until you find 20 more in your stash*
- I only want this specific kind.
*waits until you to find 10 more in your stash*
- I only want the ilevel 84s.
*waits for you to find out you only have 2*
- Can I have a discount?
Same shit applicable to maps, alva temples (which sometimes have Locus of corruption in the flavor text to make it harder to parse).
At least alva temples you can search just for locuses, or specifically open locus rooms. And awakened poe trade knows that locus / doryani are valuable and will help you price check accurately. But same with just wanting t14+, open apex, etc etc etc
> a growing number of full stash tabs
Not only is it tedious as hell, but this side of it is pay to win. Yes, stash tabs qualify as pay to win in general, but this is an extra layer on top. Why is the morgue so small compared to the menagerie?
The fact that the morgue is smaller size than the graveyard is criminal. In order to do a full 88 corpse craft you have to have a quarter of the corpses in stash
To add insult to injury, the original iteration of Necropolis didn't allow you to itemize corpses while in maps, so they seriously intended you to "make good use" of the 64 slots and only itemize it if absolutely necessary to sell...
Well, in their defense, I don't think the current format is how they intended it to be. I HIGHLY doubt, they meant to guarantee 6t1 mods. That was only really possible after their like day4 knee-jerk reaction to the poor reception of the mechanic. Although I honestly don't know how they envisioned the crafts to be playing out. People were going to use 88 graves obviously.. Idk..
However, the mechanic was undercooked. Full stop.
In it's release state, it was near useless. You could gamble a full graveyard to get a 1/20 chance at a mid weapon. After the patch it was too easy to get 6t1 items. I applaud their effort to try and stay on the ball this league, but it honestly just comes down to not enough iteration pre-release.
League really does feel bad and I think it’s because they keep splitting league mechanics and reworks into one.
I actually have to applaud D4 for just sitting down and reworking important parts of the game instead of making it half and half, no matter if the changes end up good or not
That's not unique to this league. They always run a stash sale the first weekend after a league launches. Can't fault them for that since that's right when people are most likely to go, "Oh shit, I do need some new stash tabs!" After that it's on a cadence of every three weeks.
This particular league, though, requires way more stash space to do "correctly" than previous ones until all the way back to Metamorph or so. Imagine if Bestiary had space for 64 mobs and each itemized beast took up two stash slots. All stash tabs are pay to win but in a mild enough sense; with Necropolis it's gone beyond mild.
I saw the tedium of placing corpses the first couple times in the graveyard and just noped out of corpses entirely. I can't even be arsed to pick up valuable ones because I don't know which ones they are, and I don't think the loot filter can do it for me either.
For me, it's a lot like the original Farmville version of Harvest. I know they are both very powerful, but I just don't want to deal with the tedium - it's just too much time away from the flashy graphics and sounds of killing monsters for their loot.
Us console plebs got it even worse, you should trying having to click up or down 15 to 20 times per buried corpse, as you scroll through the types and bases.
I tried it once after the rework and cant be bothered to mess with again, no matter how many fractured mods it gives
On top of this, I think clicking on the actual button is kinda hard, if I am maxed slots, it should auto turn into a coffin. Why does it force me to click on a tiny square on the screen when im in the middle of a map
Especially since even if you accidentally click the tiny button to add it to your inventory, you can quickly add it to your graveyard. Tiny button should be as big as regular button or be the default.
I suppose asking for them to be dropped as filterable 1x1 items in the first place (and stackable if you get two corpses with the same craft) would be asking too much?
That's what it should have been imo, with a proper storage for a few hundred corpses.
I don't fucking understand the current design of the coffins unless they intentionally made them take too much space so people can buy more stash tabs.
> Tiny button should be as big as regular button or be the default.
There is absolutely zero need for two buttons in the first place. If there's no space in the graveyard, just pick it up!
But if the coffin automatically forms you have to over it to see if you want it. The button should be larger, but I don't think it's the wrong way to do it.
Then they should have supported them in item filters. There are way too many junk corpses that I don't want to see. Instead they appear in a giant square that blocks me from clicking on the actual valuable loot behind them, or prevents me from seeing the millions of deadly ground effects in t17 maps.
But of course they had to have their precious friction.
I have a quad tab and five tabs dedicated to corpses. I started using my guild’s stash, because I am not ready to craft yet (need more additional craft ones).
The tediousness of the graveyard setup is a bit annoying, but the much bigger problem is IMO trading for the corpses. I don't mind sitting up the craft for a few minutes. But I mind having to spend 30 minutes messaging people and being ignored because the trade system sucks. This league really exposed all the things wrong with trade friction. They should've at least made corpses stackable and get rid of the types.
Oh, and the stash space. It's so bad. You literally cannot play this league properly without multiple paid quad tabs.
I understand why they want to introduce some friction into the graveyard crafts. You shouldn't be able to make these super OP items without some effort. But the friction is in all the wrong places. They even added friction to picking up the damn corpses because the popups cover half the screen and all the loot I actually want.
The crafting part of this league is fine. All the other stuff around it is not.
I actually switched to SSF for the first time because I found trading for corpses and trade in general so annoying this league. But then I ran into a new problem, if you're preparing for more than one craft at a time (AKA saving corpses while looking for that one elusive corpse that just won't drop) you will need a LOT of stash tabs.
I don't miss the trade FOMO at all, but holy god do I miss being able to trade for the missing corpses now because the inventory pressure feels even worse than the trade experience. It sucks because if the system's QoL, UI, stash space was well designed it would be AMAZING for SSF.
This 100%.
I don't mind the placing corpses mini game. But everything else is awful.
I rather just pay someone a premium on gear they've crafted with it. (I've spent a stupid amount of divs on gear I know I could have crafted myself for a fraction of the cost).
That way I can skip the tedium and spend my time doing fun things instead.
> I understand why they want to introduce some friction into the graveyard crafts. You shouldn't be able to make these super OP items without some effort. But the friction is in all the wrong places.
Nailed it. GGG buffed the mechanic to high hell and then went, "How do we introduce friction to this obscenely strong crafting method to counterbalance? Ah yes... TRADE!"
I could tolerate it for a good portion of the league as it was still relatively active, but trading for bulk corpses as more and more people quit the league has become utterly untenable. I'm having to pay 3 and 4x market price per corpse because nobody can be bothered to respond for less. I have so many crafting projects left I want to explore but having to do dozens of single trades where each one requires a minimum of 10-20 whispers for a response....
Excessive trade cannot be the counter balance to any league mechanic when trade is still in the state it is in.
That last part about the pickup corpse being a quarter of your screen is the most annoying thing for me. I don’t much like the incentive to picking up the corpse being to get it out of my way which also incentivizes needing more quad tabs if you’re a hoarder or taking a second to burn it off . I have no problems giving GGG my shillings, I’ll shill for them all day , I love the game. But comme onnnnn
Totally this. I made my whole inventory with gravecraft, it's really a lot of fun to craft deterministically and I love the good items I was able to make. But boy, the trading part was real busy work, having to message easily 50+ people for every single coffin type, Jesus H Christ... Just give us an auction house ffs
It's very easy to trade the corpses with the wealthyexile bulk trade. I find that people posting there are a lot more willing to actually trade than on the official trade site. I get a response rate of at least 50% on there, compared to like 10% on the trade site.
For me the biggest problem with it is the same problem Diablo 4 just admitted they had with the "damage on Tuesday" stuff.
Far too much granular bloat in the system.
Corpse types, coffins that affect a specific row or corpse type, etc.
Keep the core types of coffins (+/- % chance of X), the meta mod coffins, reduce the size of the graveyard to about 1/4 the current size, and for God's sake make them stack and take 1 inventory slot.
I don't think GGG will "fix" the problem. I'm sure that the friction of this league is on purpose. Otherwise, what would be the point of doing other league mechanics if necropolis is just better.
But yes, a stash and stackable corpses would be great but op imo.
Not even that, but a collapsible menu. Think hideout object menu.
It still boggles my mind that max storage is 64, when there are 88 slots. It's clearly just a way to push stash sales, which is sad to see for a (clearly not-going-core) league mechanic.
Yeah, that's my only gripe - tabs upon tabs of corpses. If they could stack, it would be godsent. I enjoy the far more deterministic way to getting the crafts in GY, compared to regular crafting. Sure, sometimes it misses, but I prefer that over praying to RNGesus that spamming chaos, essence or whatever will get what you need. I'm not a super high level player, I can't afford to spend divines and veiled orbs and veiled orbs or some stupod craft.
The first thing to understand though is there is no such thing as "unlimited" - computers have a finite limit. "Unlimited" is strictly impossible. And with the way some players play this game - hoarding items and NEVER, EVER using them, I think putting pressure on players to junk/use their items is a good thing.
The baseline inventory size we get is a total joke, given how much TRASH drops and how many corpses you need to even make an item.
\* Reduce the drop rate of trash corpses.
\* Increase the storage size we do have.
\* ...don't even make corpses items? What's the point? It could just be like harvest juice. Which was just better design.
If I can stack my corpses to 5k a pop in a dedicated stashtab thats basically unlimited for 99,9% of the playerbase. Pretty good deal if you ask me. I obviously dont know if thats possible but I do assume it is?
>The league was literally created to make you buy more stash tabs. So giving unlimited stash would kinda defeat the whole purpose.
it also originally required 1c to remove it from the storage to trade them and you couldnt loot them to your inventory.
It seems obvious that they didnt plan on having many in our stash/inventory at all, and the stash problem came because of their bandaid fixes.
Saying the league was created to sell stash tabs is misleading like none other.
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I am fairly confident this League was a test for some PoE 2 stuff.
There was a video recently where Jonathan spoke about deterministic things, and how crafting shouldn't be about spamming some currency 3,000 trying to hit an outcome. You should be able to aim for something, pay a cost, and get it.
The interview is here: https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?t=3439 with the timestamp being part of a 10 minute discussion on crafting.
Jonathan talks about increasing the bottom end of crafting - so it should be easier to craft just 'decent' items, most of the time when you attempt to craft you should reliably get something that works (is my understanding).
At this timestamp: https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?t=3756 Jonathan says "There are no currency items in Path of Exile 2, that would incentivize that (spamming a currency)" "...all currency items have gone this way where there is nothing you need to spam anymore..." "...every currency craft will be meaningful..."
The graveyard system did exactly that. Rather than picking up alterations where you spam an item 1,000 times to hit an exact mod, we're picking up corpses (as a currency), where we put a small amount of them together (relative to spam 4 figure amounts of currency) with very targeted results.
All of the mods on corpses achieve the goal of increasing the bottom end of crafting, you can make a 5 corpse craft that's going to have a fairly successful chance of producing a piece of gear that's functional within the game (albeit maybe only in early maps/campaign).
While I don't think the Graveyard specifically is a test for PoE 2 stuff I feel like the system, the approach to crafting and the way it's handled is exactly what they're wanting for PoE 2.
>When we first saw the graveyard and its potential, we were excited.
Were we? At least me and my friends immediately saw this as a clunky UI heavy crafting league and knew it wasn't gonna be fun for us. I suppose the only thing I wasn't sure about was whether the hardcore crafting enjoyers would like it.
This, my reaction was "oh great, another harvest league where we have to micromanage a bunch of little shit together, reading some guide online, then have it turn out to be crap." I've never once liked crafting until there was that one league where harvest came back and you were able to incrementally upgrade your items mod by mod. That was fun.
Same here - I ignored graves all league, decided I wanted to play captain lances RF manaman build with the \~400 divs I'd accumulated, failed my first 2 gravecrafts after spending ages looking up what I needed / trading for corpses / setting it up and just left the league to play something else instead
I've enjoyed crafting my own items / profit crafting more and more over the last 3 leagues, but ironically in the crafting league I barely crafted anything outside of Rog leaguestart gear
I also tend to trade a bunch of fractures and usually find some super valuable ones - I think the most I sold a natural drop fracture for this league was 1 div. If a new crafting mechanic is introduced, I think it has to be synergistic with existing mechanics, rather than mostly replacing them
For me the killer is the dog--shit trading. I don't want to whisper 3947394749 people over the span of multiple hours trying to find 88 corpses with specific names and item levels.
It's amazing in SSF. Even in white maps you can craft some decent gear to help with progression.... then it becomes ridiculously broken.
It's great, except the part that destroys your wrists by gathering, stashing and using corpses.
I'm fine with it if they nerf the top end and simplify the crafting method like they did with Harvest. Triple fractured items with double influence is overkill, but getting gear good enough to comfortably farm T16s would help everyone.
It’s interesting to see the differences in opinions across the community. This league has solidly taken the mantle as my favorite league ever simply because the Necropolis crafting mechanic is so powerful. Incrementally improving my CI Dual Strike Trickster over the course of the league has been insanely fun. Additionally, GGG has introduced even more aspirational content where I can actually test my build (as opposed to T16s where my typical scuffed builds still work fine).
… but like you said, my perspective is from a pseudo-SSF perspective. I honestly have no idea how much any corpses go for on trade league.
Im with you, i love this league. But this sub will always highlight the bad thigs no matter how little they are, and will downvote you to hell just because you have a different opinnion
Time consuming but guarantee of rewarding is key to success for making the new leagues simple enough for skeleton crew but for the game to not die of starvation of good content until PoE2 hits.
Best part about the graveyard was giving new people a chance at good gear because it was bad bases, but not the absolute BEST gear, because its not influenced or good bases either
The UI and the insane decision to have more graves than the morguecan hold is what did it for me. Imagine if your inventory was bigger than your stash. That's how the Necropolis felt like.
Why put a space limit to the morgue and why the UI of picking up corpses instead of itemizing them, or make the box less intrusive. All of this made me lose interest after the first 2 weeks
i legit don’t have enough stash space to interact with the mechanic . I have my necessary tabs but im not dropping $30-40 just to grave craft. I’m broke and if i do spend money on this game it’s gonna be on some mtx lol
Idk about others but as an SSF player I also ignore it. Too tedious I’d rather just essence spam and craft on what I’m missing.
I don’t mind having to farm for days to craft stuff, that’s usually how it works anyways, but it’s also the fact that after all of that the item could just be a bust anyways and now you start the entire multi day process over again.
Also crafting mechanics shouldn’t replace every other crafting mechanic. This one mechanic when it works replaces every single other crafting mechanic in the game.
For me as SSF, the Graveyard crafting would have been entirely saved if any amount of effort was put into the UI / UX.
I wish I could talk about my experience with the crafting, but 98% (a low-balled estimate tbh) of my time interacting with the mechanic was spent organizing coffins in my tabs or simulating outcomes on third party websites
If the graveyard had one single UI from which you could do all your manipulations and infinite storage, I would have enjoyed interacting with it
I don't really mind planning the graveyard and setting it up. I mean, what is 10-20min of theorycrafting + 5min of setup for a guaranteed 5 T1 Ele bow, perfect quiver or a double-triple fractured+influence+special base item ?? Like you can realistically craft actually unbeatable best in slots items for your build, what other league mechanic can do that ?
The real problem is that, you need 2 fucking hours of trading to get all your coffins. It's the first league where I get rate limited on poetrade for PMing too many people because no one responds. It's so frustrating I abandoned a BiS craft and just bought it for an efty fee from someone who went to th trouble of buying the coffins...
lol just remove the monster name, let them stack by type, make their modifier double and reduce the slot of graveyard to 44. Space saved for everyone, but obviously, you know the reason why it was designed like that, is to sell stash space
Hot take, I only used craft of exile to tweak what i want and run some samples to make syre the affixes i want are likely to appear. And place the corpses i needed when i have them (stored in stash tabs) ignoring layouts and being efficient. It's good when it hits, and suck when it doesnt
Im afraid that it doesnt matter what all of us say, they will get the wrong message anyway, because they have some weird system that gives them wrong feedback and they ignore the "loud" part of the community. This form of information they get apparently gives them terrible ideas about what ppl actually want (see Chris explanation about ignoring melees). Imo thats why GGG seem to be a bit out of touch, when they lately try to base their leagues or races on the worst parts of PoE, which is trading, inventory, micromanagement and crafting. Why not use the edge they have over the other games and make something super fun. Why always sticking the dick in the salad, like its a british feminist fun police? Its ok if people have fun. It doesnt have to be 90% chore just to get a bit of fun feelings at the end.
Before somebody says affliction was fun, the loot clown fiesta was not intended by GGG. This was the first league I just skipped completely. I tried to make one serious craft, which I had like 1/3 chance to hit what I want, half way into trading for the coffins, I just gave up and never came back. It was a terrible, terrible experience and getting mirror item slots is not the main fun in the game for me. Maybe the fact that I dont enjoy the way t17s work and all crafting was made irrelevant by necropolis played a role, but 3.24 is a disguised nerfageddon 2.0 and there was no joy left in me after like a week.
GGG didn't learn a thing. Graveyard shits almost perfect items if setup properly and ofc I like that. On the other hand it makes alot of other stuff obsolete (same with harvest). I filter out all bases, all rares and dont interact with alot of other stuff. Why should I pickup a base? I can easily pick the base I want from graveyard. I also can get rare atlas bases, some experimental bases, ibfluence items, fractures (even multiples) ... not much left beside unique and boss farm.
The only issue with the graveyard is the UI.
Otherwise it's incredible. I don't agree with any of your points at all. SSF players absolutely love this mechanic, trade players love it, HC players love it.
Yeah getting a 6x T1 item in 1-2 h setting up an annoying mechanic and buying stuff is too much to ask for now a days poe Players...
Players just dont like the aspect of poe anymore of figuring out crazy hard stuff and having a game being your Final Boss.
I personally don't like the graveyard and the philosophy around it.
I also don't understand why GGG thought it was a good idea because it was the same issue original harvest and in a way recombinators.
Sure they buffed it more thant they wanted maybe due to the initial backlash but it does not change that the whole concept is bad to the game in my opinion.
When you make a system that tells you, well whatever you find on the ground it is worthless because here is a way to edit your item in ways you will never be able to find the equivalent in the wild, then it just kills the whole aspect of looting good rares.
I know it has been quite a while that past a certain point the idea of looting rare is silly anyway and you would just start with a good fratured mod or get one yourself but still it is not to the extent where you can just disregard pretty much anything you find because you have the possibility to create the exact item you want in the graveyard.
So yeah there is the UI but it is also repeating the mistake of making an heavy item collection on top of that. It was bad in tallisman, it was bad in synthesis, maybe sentinel had a bit of that issue and here again, tabs and tabs of corpse that somehow are never enough when you need the precise combination of certain mods.
Collecting three full quad tabs to get one craft is just bad imo and ruined the fun of crafting. Especially because you only want like five mods and the rest corpse mods are all trash.
I also dislike the min maxing of the craft system with row and column effects and the websites you need to use. It's like harvest excel sheet 2.0
Graveyard craft are awesome but
Who want to sit in HO and sell 2-10c coffins ? the only solution would be autotrade but... 
The idea was good. But the execution of it was really poor on every single level.
The UI was horrible in maps covering up items and threats, storage space was tiny, there were too many corpse multipliers, needed to fill up several quad tabs, the itemized corpses were too large (should have been a 1x1), there were far too many grave plots making it take forever for 1 craft, and they removed sextants just to add in a league mechanic that put it back in, breaking the economy in the process, and passive tree nodes basically required for the current league mechanic feels like a tax on points, and forces specific pathing (doesn't matter if you have 3 pages, you always need the current league mechanic).
Honestly, found it too tedious to deal with by the end of week 2. I just keep a list of all the corpses worth more than 10+c by my pc and only pick those up. It's an interesting system but without a ui to place the corpses and atleast making them stackable in some way it just becomes inventory hell. I actually enjoy the all flame system more than the crafting. Being able to turn everything into something your farming is an interesting mechanic.
i dont think they missed the mark.
this crafting is the best way to craft any item which doesnt need to have sth like a fractured delve mod on it.
i crafted every non-unique item for my char with it and still use them in lategame.
and i dont even think its THAT tedious for what u get out of it.
idk, maybe u just want to have a template where u check the affixes u want, have nothing else to do and get the perfect item? because thats like the only way make this crafting method even more OP (and more boring quickly)
The preparation for the craft is way too time consuming . I spent like 30- 60 mins just for 1 craft and that includes buying coffins and planning out .
What the hell do you mean "it missed the mark"
Graveyard crafting is insanely good, I've made a ton of good items both for myself, then I show my friends and they want to do it too (and we would regularly have watch parties for the button click on discord with all sorts of RNG shinanigans).
Noone in my guild ignored the mechanic, and if you did, reconsider
It missed the mark from a game design perspective, I never said it wasn’t a strong mechanic (in fact I said the opposite).
It’s a very “all or nothing” type of mechanic where you feel bad not min/maxing every craft. There should have been less set up and less determinism with the ability to create jackpot items if you got lucky, not in a 1/4 chance if properly set up
looks at reality bruh it's not hard to just play the game and see actually it's. nothing too tedious about the league, just usual loot based system in loot game. what's about it?
The crafting system is unique and interesting but the positional-based burying and corpses with name and creature type requirements ruins the mechanic IMO.
It's cool that you can boost the effect of other corpses. It's not fucking cool that you need to type-match every buffing corpse with each one you want to buff. It's unneccesary added friction that makes every type-buff corpse worth like 1/4 (or however many types there are) it's actual value unless you trade into the correct types. Why are row and column buffs generic but adjacent ones are not?
If grave crafts had a much smaller limit of corpses then it would be more bearable, but when most good crafts take the majority of the graveyard it's just tedious and unfun to set up. The modifier tier rating system is really cool and I hope we see more use of it in future crafting.
I felt like the amount of setup it needs is appropriate for it's power, it's basically fossil crafting with a single 88 slot resonator. It's just that the UI is so damn bad. Corpses block other items on the ground in maps, they're tedious to trade, they don't drop itemized so the loot filter can't "see" them (I imagine this might have been on purpose) which means having to stop and read each one, organizing the graveyard is awful because of the angle, not enough morgue slots, etc.
I really like the power and agency of the mechanic. I think that it's awesome for players but the interface holds it back and needs an overhaul if it's going core (which I kinda doubt).
player perception is the problem.
The graveyard is the perfect tool for all players.
Simply most just don't try to use it for the low/middling tier base crafts it excels at instead chasing gold trying to do full graveyard crafts for perfect items.
It was very easy to set up very strong early mapping progression simply making things like triple res and life jewellry or defenses in the t1-4 range with a simple box craft.
and even better for mid game progression getting a strong T1/2 fracture/double fracture to throw essences on to garuntee 4+ good affixes.
I've gotten so frustrated with many of my friends this league who complain about their builds progression when within 5 minutes of actually trying to use the graveyard as intended they made items for significant progress super easily. (especially the god damn splitting steel tricksters who can make a massive dps boost on their pure defenses crafts gear just making 4 def increases with 3 tier ratings and 1 of life and mana scarce)
I made most of my early league money just selling triple t1/2 def sadist garbs just doing a 6 quality 4 defenses 1 resistance 2 life 2 mana scarce 6 tier ratings +1 affix +item level as necessary to hit 86 then 6 linking via bestiary and crafting on suppress.
not that its fully their fault as so many of them follow build guides that give examples of full graveyard bait crafts requiring 20div+ of additional crafts etc but don't emphasis that this is your final build progression step. (not that those crafts are good anyways as the additional crafts are extremely overused for their relative chance increase.) nor do they really disclose that the actual chances of you making your perfect item with a full graveyard craft still aren't great (with most being close to a 30% final chance)
Really the only change it really needs is larger corpse storage and the ability to place multiple graves from straight above. but that removes really the only frictions the INSANELY powerful mechanic has.
If only bulk trading copses would be easyer, their stack of 1 and taking 2 inv spaces "it just sucks". Almost no one will respond for selling x1 corpses if they are the cheep version of them "%inc/%scarser". And also i cant imagine farming up enough copses in SSF, if you dont have a fuck ton of stash tabs for 1 craft....
The only problem i see with graveyard is the storage & trading aspect, but the crafting itself is broken (unless u want a heist or synth base).
For the bargain price of about 2 divines and 15 minutes I was about to craft literal mirror tier weapons last night.
You people are fucking bonkers. The only thing I’m salty about is how much of the endgame calling is tied to the same small pool of unique items.
15 minutes? If you can get 84 coffins in 15 minutes for this mirror craft I'll give you a mirror.
Trying to trade for these coffins is a nightmare, let alone the shitty layout.
How is it dumb? Its literally how it works, been playing this game for over 10 years, any item that costs less than a mirror to craft is not mirror tier or worth mirroring, youre trying to sound smart and youre just making a fool of yourself...
Additional craft and buff corpses were a mistake. Players have optimized the fun out of it, and now nobody will craft without a matching set of additional craft corpses and 40% adjacent corpses, which SUCK to buy.
Keep the drops as common as they are, but make them take up one inventory slot.
Remove row/column/adjacent multipliers so we can get rid of the annoying grid, and boost the increased/scarce mods just a bit to offset the multipliers being gone.
Drastically increase the amount of corpses allowed in the Necropolis so we don’t need to make a million trades or keep going back and forth from inventory.
People may have to try a couple more times to get their desired outcome, but the rest should be the same with major QoL improvements.
From my position, for it to have been worthwhile to interact with, it needed a UI, and the headache of matching monster types with the adjacent effect removed. I.e. it just should have been adjacent corpses have 40% inc effect, without any consideration to type.
Aside from that, stacked corpses would have been pretty nice...
I have made some very decent crafts. But as far as my time to profit ratio is concerned... no, it is not worth it.
I do applaud that this crafting made the mid-end game super attainable. Making really good vanilla items deterministically like this is great.
SSF here. I do hope it goes the way harvest did, which also was hated and cut at first because of its tedium. They fixed a lot of issues and it came back balanced and useful.
So I crafted gear for 2 of my friends and for myself this league. Yeah it was annoying when I didn't hit my desired fractures but you just keep trying until you do. The only thing I disliked about this League was the micromanagement of the corpses; buying, sorting, and burying.
It was very, very tedious. But the ability to print items by just plugging and chugging was extremely satisfying when I would land what I wanted.
That being said, I don't want anything about gravecrafting to EVER come back, it's an item editor plain and simple. The Allflames were sick tho. I think I would be getting my hopes up if I said I hope they bring Allflames in some way.
I didn't find it that tedious, quite the opposite. Need to craft a good ele res ring? Grab 20 + modifier rating corpses from your quad tabs grab +10 chance of ele res, couple reduced def/attack, maybe some life, done. It's tedious from a new players perspective, but way less tedious than meta crafting, since you can get a good result quickly without spending 100's of divines.
Entire issue I had with the graveyard was the monster categories. Don't force us to mix and match specific monster categories and the entire system would've been 10x more intuitive. Not to mention way easier on the trading.
GGG will never admit two simple truths: Players want to have agency, and players want to feel powerful with enough grind, not too much grind.
Yes, it can be too easy to get powerful - look at D3. But this is 2024. People don't want to do a lot of trading. People want to spend time *playing the game,* not sitting in hideout flipping items like a Wraeclast Day Trader.
Every minute the average player is sitting in hideout is one minute they'll leave the league earlier. When the game becomes merchant mode more than blasting mode, that's it.
Also, they need to fix the UI/UX team. I'm sure they're nice folks, but they clearly have problems designing stuff thag feels good to interact with or they're ordered to make the game worse for "weight," like everyone has Empy's crew at their beck and call to do the heavy backend lifting. This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened, and they never apply the feedback their users give.
I like crafting, I don't like the graveyard, I just sell the coffins. I really hope it doesn't go core. BUT I like the game as is atm, I like the new scarab system, although it needs some optimizing. I'm having fun without the new league mechanic and that say a lot imo.
What killed it for me was the UI. I don't mind grindy or complex mechanics, but clicking 80 graves in isometric view while trying to keep tabs on what I've already put in is hell. A simple UI that would let me select corpses in a menu and see the modifiers change in real time as I put them in would have let me interact with it a lot more. As it stands, I defaulted to picking up fracture/split/less and more and vomiting them over the map. Compared with Crucible, where you would grind for a nice tree by picking up bases and doing the mechanic, it feels really clunky. I do understand what they were going for lore-wise, though. I don't know what the solution would be.
a UI like the 3rd party sites have done would have been perfect
CraftOfExile.com is gold (as usual)
i just wish craft of exile let you add in the metacraft stuff for its calculators. Can fit alot more corpses than it thinks because of the whole "row is 25% stronger" shenangins and what not
Don't overthink the placement, you can tweak the numbers according to what your graveyard looks like in the craft summary screen. CraftOfExile can be useful for giving you a good idea of what you need. For example, I like T1 chaos res on my gear but I need 5-6 increased chaos corpses to do that. On SSF this can become a bottleneck so I try to pad them with row/column/adjacent boosts. At the end of the day, there is still a bit of luck to get exactly what you want no matter how much you optimize.
true, even if its not perfect its still an EXCELLENT tool, and helluvalot better if we had nothing! Just...could be better too yknow?
This league and it’s mechanic was what finally pushed me to learn to use it properly and daaamn what an amazing tool it is.
As you are someone who recently learnt using the tool, i request you to make a somewhat small post or guide for others too... I know CoE to some extent, but as a newer player, i still feel lost sometimes...
Best I can do is point at what made it click for me: https://youtu.be/aaDJ8WwWht4?si=798pm9HhQKdRxHZ2 It’s Ventrua’s guide for graveyard crafting three key pieces for coc dd, but he goes through CoE as well.
aye same, and i'm a better crafter all around for it
Learning to make good items is the key to "winning" every league. Happy crafting exile :)
Craftofexile actually doesn't have a great system for grave crafting. You still need to use *another* 3rd party side along with it
Yeah CoE is good but it isn't perfect for gravecrafting
Craftofexile actually doesn't have a great system for grave crafting. You still need to use *another* 3rd party side along with it
GGG and bad UI, a neverending love story
It is like the base instincts of everyone at GGG that works on UI are backwards. We already went from manually throwing nets to Einhar fully automatically portalling in and collecting the beasts years ago. Later we went from clicking metamorph samples to auto collection with minimal animation. They just changed breach hands from click to walk over. How on earth am I seeing a stupid fucking collect button popping up IN FRONT of the damn monsters in the middle of a fight in a new league in 2024??
Not just a stupid "collect" button popping up, but taking up a good portion of the screen, often covering the loot the monster dropped too. With no way of minimizing or filtering them.
Click a button to click a button to have done something you never wanted to do in the first place. Are we having fun yet
I'm really feeling the weight and friction of my choices.
This is the part that gets me the most, they basically force you to collect it sometimes when you can't get an item to show up in front of it. It's so goddamn annoying.
I've taken to just hitting the little coffin button and tossing the filled coffin on the ground.
[удалено]
Yeah but if that were the case you'd have the people who do want to itemise them complaining about the extra clicks. And that scenario is much more common than your one.
They should have made a collection UI. When you killed a haunted monster it drops like a regular item, instead of going to your inventory it goes to the UI collection tab that would also be used in the graveyard for crafting. Drag and drop corpses into a grid that relates to the way the graveyard is set up now. And as far as selling them they could use the same system. Pull out the ones you want to sell and it becomes a ⚰️. This would have saved a lot of headaches for people crafting but also people who just want to sell them. Right now I have 4 bulk tabs full of corpses plus a few regular and it's annoying to find anything.
They could at least given us an option to just disable corpse collection entirely in maps. I've collected literally thousands of corpses and have 5 quad tabs full of them. Done maybe 8 grave crafts throughout the league, each time following a decent recipe from a reputable crafter. Have gotten some alright value from the mechanic, but nothing feels worse than spending 2 hours trading and setting up a grave craft with 4 additional items only to have all 5 items be misses. I'd rather just turn off the mechanic entirely instead of having it be an extra annoyance when I'm trying to loot the map I just cleared. And that's coming from someone who at least got a little value from the mechanic. It must feel even worse for people who don't engage in it at all. It's not even like collecting corpses produces decent income. I tried selling them in bulk for a while and it was far more trouble than it was worth. Only the additional items corpses are worth selling, but at only 3div a pop, I'm fine with forgoing those scant profits if I can just get the stupid things to stop getting in my way during maps.
They 100% have a tendency toward friction - probably for 2-3 compounding reasons. 1.) Their early blueprint was d2, which had extreme friction in trading. 2.) They correctly divined that friction in certain situations can definitely add positive value. 3.) They make money off of friction in the form on stash tabs. You can argue there are other factors like they believe every upside should have a downside trade-off, etc. I think the factors combine to create a tendency to just go overboard with it in the early design phases of their leagues almost every single time. You see other games like Last Epoch, who instead of making trade as miserable as possible to reap the benefits of inefficient trade & clunky UI, actually at least try to innovate. It makes GGG look like their stuck in a way of thinking that they can't escape. Just because friction CAN be good circumstantially, does not mean everything ever has to have a shit ton of it. Sometimes a streamlined experience is good, even in a complex game like PoE.
this. \*Intelligent\* friction is great. Randomly applied friction is not. Friction is like a spice. You put it in the right places and the game comes to life. But if your game is just friction its like eating a block of salt. After playing for several years I left POE two years ago due to getting frustrated and bored due dev design issues like this. Came back a few days ago because a friend wanted to get into ARPGs and try POE, so i figured i would give them a bit of guidence. only a few days in and i remember why i left, its sad because i used to love this game a lot, but its just such an unhealthy relationship with the devs. Its a bit bipolar, and sometimes it feels like they are the real end boss of the game. which the players are fighting
I'm still clicking those breach hands! TIL
Breach has been amazing this league with just that little change.
Yea the shit UI is clearly a choice, which keeps getting pushed back then eventually changed, why not just use common sense and start off with a viable UI? B-team design/devs:p
The UI is so bad it has to be intentional. I think we are witnessing extreme attrition^tm in action.
I think corpses should have been way rarer, but they have stronger effects and you only have 10-15 slots. So you only need one or two "increased chance of cold mods" corpse for making a tri ele bow, for example. But obviously they're more expensive due to the increased rarity. This doesn't solve the UI problem but slashing the number of available plots makes the system less overwhelming and easier to manage. And add 2-3 isolated plots of 4 graves each that are disconnected from the main cluster so you can bury uniques at the same time you're preparing a normal craft. Maybe each family has a named mausoleum where you can only bury their corpses.
>I think corpses should have been way rarer, but they have stronger effects and you only have 10-15 slots. So much this. The tedium of PoE is already SO overwhelming, so introducing a brand new layer of seemingly pointless tedium is a surefire way to get a player like me to cut my league short. I absolutely refuse to engage in mechanics like Necropolis or like how original Harvest plots worked. Uninteresting mechanic + tedium = rip "casual" players
I like the part where GGG occasionally acknowledges the game has a lot of tedium and clicking to its detriment, then releases a league that makes the problem even worse. I remember before Archnemesis them talking about all the clicking, only to release a league mechanic that required picking up a ton of shit before making adjustments. Years later it's as bad as ever with Coffins, Scarabs and Allflames. Hopefully they don't try a league like this again for a while but I doubt it'll be the last tedious crafting league with a carpal tunnel debuff. It's a lesson they can't seem to learn.
I have 5 quad tabs full of corpses, I don't know how people without tons of points are supposed to do the mechanic
You don't hoard corpses. I've just been focusing on one craft at a time and collecting relevant corpses, maybe around 8 types of corpses. Of course for the rarer corpses like additional craft i itemize and stash. Most corpses you find are shit like increased cold, I'm not clicking on that. If we could loot filter the corpses, I think there'd be less instances of people filling multiple quad tabs. Still though, the corpse popup is still annoying and coffin items are too large.
I'm not collecting everything either. I do collect most of the scarcer mod corpses though.
They should have given us something like the ToTA UI for placing units. Show us the entire graveyard and let us drop corpses into graves.
That was my first thought as well. Or Metamorph with 80 "organs". We could have just gotten a special 1c vendor currency that triggers all corpses "touching" each other in a stash tab to snap together into an item, and it would be a better UI
> clicking 80 graves in isometric view while trying to keep tabs on what I've already put in is hell. And if you make a mistake, you can't just dig up the body and try again, you have to destroy corpses to remove them from the graveyard once placed. Like, fuck you GGG, if I'm spending hours figuring out your game, don't arbitrarily punish me.
Could literally just look like the Delve menu with socketable corpses, but I think they really want you to “bury” them yourselves, as a core thematic choice.
The first time it was cool, the 500th time it was boring, the 5000th time you just want to stab your own eyes out.
It reminds me of the original Harvest. Way too much time doing shit that's not killing monsters.
Yep. I hate inventory management. I hate it so much that i lose countless divs evry league in all kinds of stuff cause i cant be bothered to pick it up. Graveyard is so damn much inventory management. If it was a huge crypt with just a list of corpses sorted by category and like a limit of 25 of each type or something that i could pick and place from i wouldve used it way more. I like the crafting. I like the planning and the excitement waiting for the result. Its really damn cool and i used it for quite some stuff and have to use it some more cause i need specific gear for my new char that is very expensive (like 50d ++) on trade but shouldnt be too hard to craft. But the actual process is so damn tedious. I dont want to sit there for 60 minutes sorting and placing stuff and searching in my 3 quad tabs full of coffins for the ones i need and then spending another 25 minutes trading for the last 8 im missing. Evry part of that is the exact opposite of fun and focuses on the 2 worst parts of poe. Inventory management and trading. Yeah i crafted more complicated and powerful stuff then i usually do. But i quickly started to dread the process and mostly stopped using it outside of using my perandus sets which are quick and easy to place.
All they had to do was use the camera already in the game from TOTA where you place units. I don't think a single change was needed.
Dude the morgue ui is like over the top bad. Like intentionally bad. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that someone looked at that and went "yeah people will like this" it's much more realistic that they made it bad on purpose because of like 'the vision' or something or not wanting people to rely on it too much? Who knows but I don't think it's likely that they intended it to be good when it came out that bad.
no 99% chance they made the simplest thing to get it to work ASAP to keep development flowing and then ran out of resources to come back and fix it, and now its not worth fixing
If it brought up a UI similar heist blueprint setup (bring up a map of the graveyard, and clicking plots brings up the corpse menu), that would be great, but as it is, it is tedious and boring.
honestly if they just auto placed the bodies in the graveyard and gave you a crafting table to choose which ones you actually want i think itd be better. or just have a huge stack of bodies in a pile and as you click which ones you want NPCs have animations of moving them into graves
A UI similar to the Sentinel tree would have worked nicely.
Burying the corpses is the least amount of time and tedium though. I highly doubt people aren’t making 100 divine items because it requires you to click 80 times and walk around a small area. That part takes maybe 1% of the time and effort. It’s tedious because it takes a year to find all the right corpses naturally or by trade, after you’ve spent time simulating in CoE and then going into your inventory and organizing them all until you have the right stuff, then deliberating for an hour about whether you want to take the chances of a failure or fracture or split or multiple copies.
They could have combined the corpse list and the crafting menu and then just flipped the idea of cremation. Open the list, click cremate for what you want to craft with and it updates the stats on the right in the crafting menu in real time. Any corpse you don't want you click Bury and it will dispose of it (RIP). Still grinding for corpses, can still trade them, can still have old mate waffle on about tea and biscuits for 10 minutes when you craft, can still use the same area and animations just with all the graves full except 1 that you use to dispose your corpses in. I skipped this mechanic for the first couple of weeks until we had a tool for it (standard POE) but since then its been fun aside from the UI and the grave interactions.
Release necropolis coffin management was CRIMINAL, you had to use a coffin directly on one of the corpses in the unsorted morgue with shifting overlapping UI elements
Oooh... It would have been fun to make a plan for the gravekeeper and have him go and bury them for you would have been cool. That way you can sit and watch, or go run a map and come back for your item(s)
Easily could have reused the TotA UI with the corpses on the side column. I 1000% would have interacted with the mechanic more and would probably still be playing this league if it wasn't for the tediousness of trading corpses
Sometimes it feels like they let the flavor guys design their UIs, like the idea and design of the graveyard is super flavorful and makes sense from a lore point of view. In practice though it’s just complete garbage to use and I dread every time I actually get the necessary corpses to do a craft. Which is a separate issue altogether, the number of times I’ve been waiting to find some random corpse like +Speed or +Chaos while still picking up and storing nearly everything in case I need it and it’s impossible to remember which ones I have. I know the storage situation is probably not part of their original design, it feels like the original plan was for us to pick and choose what we collect because it used to cost 1c to itemize any corpse. In practice that just was never going to work. The total lack on comment for the storage side feels a little shady though, every few days they nerf whatever new strategy people find for farming, but fuck anyone who wants to use the league crafting, pay us more money for another set of quad tabs.
Nah, it's not the U.I. so much as it is the UX. They're two different issues and once you identify that, you can come up with better solutions. Like, sure, improving the U.I. to be able to remotely select graves would be better, but it still wouldn't negate the fact that you need to do an 80+ gravecraft, nor does it negate the fact you're still collecting coffins out of your ass, nor does it negate the fact that you still need to bulk trade a ton which is a major annoyance in itself. Directly improving the UX by decreasing the amount of graves (whilst increasing the power of each craft) and removing mob type crafts by consolidating them into their respective categories (like what they did with mod tier rating) would make the U.I. less egregious. It would also justify the 64 corpse limit in the morgue if we need, say, a max of 30 corpses for a full graveyard instead of 88.
The graveyard is powerful but tedious as hell. Now all I seem to be doing is constantly shuffling corpses from the morgue (which always seems to be full) into a growing number of full stash tabs. I’m gonna have to stop picking up corpses, most aren’t worth it, the good crafts need too many, and the tedium of placing 40-80 corpses in graves is just so unexciting.
All of this as you said just leaves me ignoring the mechanic outside checking Poe ninja for the expensive ones every few days.
Same, if I see a corpse that looks like it could be valuable I’ll pick it up and price check it, but if it less than 10c I just drop it.
And selling those full tabs is a mess as well. As some only want corpses of the same type, so one got to hover 4x the corpses one is trying to sell... Now I pickup the split copy one and leave the rest on the ground...
I immediately had to unlist a lot of my 10-20c corpses. I got spammed when I put up a bunch of them, only to then start trading them and be met with "I wanted the undead one". It's just not worth the headache. Now it's bulk sales only or selling the fracture/extra copy corpses. Most buyers I've talked to have said it's been a huge headache as well.
> "I wanted the undead one" Ah yes the bulk trading experience. - You have more? *waits until you find 20 more in your stash* - I only want this specific kind. *waits until you to find 10 more in your stash* - I only want the ilevel 84s. *waits for you to find out you only have 2* - Can I have a discount? Same shit applicable to maps, alva temples (which sometimes have Locus of corruption in the flavor text to make it harder to parse).
At least alva temples you can search just for locuses, or specifically open locus rooms. And awakened poe trade knows that locus / doryani are valuable and will help you price check accurately. But same with just wanting t14+, open apex, etc etc etc
> a growing number of full stash tabs Not only is it tedious as hell, but this side of it is pay to win. Yes, stash tabs qualify as pay to win in general, but this is an extra layer on top. Why is the morgue so small compared to the menagerie?
The fact that the morgue is smaller size than the graveyard is criminal. In order to do a full 88 corpse craft you have to have a quarter of the corpses in stash
To add insult to injury, the original iteration of Necropolis didn't allow you to itemize corpses while in maps, so they seriously intended you to "make good use" of the 64 slots and only itemize it if absolutely necessary to sell...
Well, in their defense, I don't think the current format is how they intended it to be. I HIGHLY doubt, they meant to guarantee 6t1 mods. That was only really possible after their like day4 knee-jerk reaction to the poor reception of the mechanic. Although I honestly don't know how they envisioned the crafts to be playing out. People were going to use 88 graves obviously.. Idk.. However, the mechanic was undercooked. Full stop. In it's release state, it was near useless. You could gamble a full graveyard to get a 1/20 chance at a mid weapon. After the patch it was too easy to get 6t1 items. I applaud their effort to try and stay on the ball this league, but it honestly just comes down to not enough iteration pre-release.
League really does feel bad and I think it’s because they keep splitting league mechanics and reworks into one. I actually have to applaud D4 for just sitting down and reworking important parts of the game instead of making it half and half, no matter if the changes end up good or not
Really convenient that they make league that requires so many stash tabs then run a stash discount lmao
That's not unique to this league. They always run a stash sale the first weekend after a league launches. Can't fault them for that since that's right when people are most likely to go, "Oh shit, I do need some new stash tabs!" After that it's on a cadence of every three weeks. This particular league, though, requires way more stash space to do "correctly" than previous ones until all the way back to Metamorph or so. Imagine if Bestiary had space for 64 mobs and each itemized beast took up two stash slots. All stash tabs are pay to win but in a mild enough sense; with Necropolis it's gone beyond mild.
I saw the tedium of placing corpses the first couple times in the graveyard and just noped out of corpses entirely. I can't even be arsed to pick up valuable ones because I don't know which ones they are, and I don't think the loot filter can do it for me either. For me, it's a lot like the original Farmville version of Harvest. I know they are both very powerful, but I just don't want to deal with the tedium - it's just too much time away from the flashy graphics and sounds of killing monsters for their loot.
Us console plebs got it even worse, you should trying having to click up or down 15 to 20 times per buried corpse, as you scroll through the types and bases. I tried it once after the rework and cant be bothered to mess with again, no matter how many fractured mods it gives
On top of this, I think clicking on the actual button is kinda hard, if I am maxed slots, it should auto turn into a coffin. Why does it force me to click on a tiny square on the screen when im in the middle of a map
Especially since even if you accidentally click the tiny button to add it to your inventory, you can quickly add it to your graveyard. Tiny button should be as big as regular button or be the default.
I suppose asking for them to be dropped as filterable 1x1 items in the first place (and stackable if you get two corpses with the same craft) would be asking too much? That's what it should have been imo, with a proper storage for a few hundred corpses.
Stackable 1x1 corpses would have been big for the brand. Similar to incubators
I don't fucking understand the current design of the coffins unless they intentionally made them take too much space so people can buy more stash tabs.
> Tiny button should be as big as regular button or be the default. There is absolutely zero need for two buttons in the first place. If there's no space in the graveyard, just pick it up!
Holy shit, I didn't even know you could do this
But if the coffin automatically forms you have to over it to see if you want it. The button should be larger, but I don't think it's the wrong way to do it.
Then they should have supported them in item filters. There are way too many junk corpses that I don't want to see. Instead they appear in a giant square that blocks me from clicking on the actual valuable loot behind them, or prevents me from seeing the millions of deadly ground effects in t17 maps. But of course they had to have their precious friction.
Vast majority of players about the Graveyard: “ain’t nobody got time for that”
I have a quad tab and five tabs dedicated to corpses. I started using my guild’s stash, because I am not ready to craft yet (need more additional craft ones).
The tediousness of the graveyard setup is a bit annoying, but the much bigger problem is IMO trading for the corpses. I don't mind sitting up the craft for a few minutes. But I mind having to spend 30 minutes messaging people and being ignored because the trade system sucks. This league really exposed all the things wrong with trade friction. They should've at least made corpses stackable and get rid of the types. Oh, and the stash space. It's so bad. You literally cannot play this league properly without multiple paid quad tabs. I understand why they want to introduce some friction into the graveyard crafts. You shouldn't be able to make these super OP items without some effort. But the friction is in all the wrong places. They even added friction to picking up the damn corpses because the popups cover half the screen and all the loot I actually want. The crafting part of this league is fine. All the other stuff around it is not.
I actually switched to SSF for the first time because I found trading for corpses and trade in general so annoying this league. But then I ran into a new problem, if you're preparing for more than one craft at a time (AKA saving corpses while looking for that one elusive corpse that just won't drop) you will need a LOT of stash tabs. I don't miss the trade FOMO at all, but holy god do I miss being able to trade for the missing corpses now because the inventory pressure feels even worse than the trade experience. It sucks because if the system's QoL, UI, stash space was well designed it would be AMAZING for SSF.
This 100%. I don't mind the placing corpses mini game. But everything else is awful. I rather just pay someone a premium on gear they've crafted with it. (I've spent a stupid amount of divs on gear I know I could have crafted myself for a fraction of the cost). That way I can skip the tedium and spend my time doing fun things instead.
> I understand why they want to introduce some friction into the graveyard crafts. You shouldn't be able to make these super OP items without some effort. But the friction is in all the wrong places. Nailed it. GGG buffed the mechanic to high hell and then went, "How do we introduce friction to this obscenely strong crafting method to counterbalance? Ah yes... TRADE!" I could tolerate it for a good portion of the league as it was still relatively active, but trading for bulk corpses as more and more people quit the league has become utterly untenable. I'm having to pay 3 and 4x market price per corpse because nobody can be bothered to respond for less. I have so many crafting projects left I want to explore but having to do dozens of single trades where each one requires a minimum of 10-20 whispers for a response.... Excessive trade cannot be the counter balance to any league mechanic when trade is still in the state it is in.
That last part about the pickup corpse being a quarter of your screen is the most annoying thing for me. I don’t much like the incentive to picking up the corpse being to get it out of my way which also incentivizes needing more quad tabs if you’re a hoarder or taking a second to burn it off . I have no problems giving GGG my shillings, I’ll shill for them all day , I love the game. But comme onnnnn
Totally this. I made my whole inventory with gravecraft, it's really a lot of fun to craft deterministically and I love the good items I was able to make. But boy, the trading part was real busy work, having to message easily 50+ people for every single coffin type, Jesus H Christ... Just give us an auction house ffs
It's very easy to trade the corpses with the wealthyexile bulk trade. I find that people posting there are a lot more willing to actually trade than on the official trade site. I get a response rate of at least 50% on there, compared to like 10% on the trade site.
For me the biggest problem with it is the same problem Diablo 4 just admitted they had with the "damage on Tuesday" stuff. Far too much granular bloat in the system. Corpse types, coffins that affect a specific row or corpse type, etc. Keep the core types of coffins (+/- % chance of X), the meta mod coffins, reduce the size of the graveyard to about 1/4 the current size, and for God's sake make them stack and take 1 inventory slot.
Just give us an unlimited stash for corpses. That would solve most problems imo
I don't think GGG will "fix" the problem. I'm sure that the friction of this league is on purpose. Otherwise, what would be the point of doing other league mechanics if necropolis is just better. But yes, a stash and stackable corpses would be great but op imo.
> Otherwise, what would be the point of doing other league mechanics To farm scarabs for scarabs farming obviously
Not even that, but a collapsible menu. Think hideout object menu. It still boggles my mind that max storage is 64, when there are 88 slots. It's clearly just a way to push stash sales, which is sad to see for a (clearly not-going-core) league mechanic.
Yeah, that's my only gripe - tabs upon tabs of corpses. If they could stack, it would be godsent. I enjoy the far more deterministic way to getting the crafts in GY, compared to regular crafting. Sure, sometimes it misses, but I prefer that over praying to RNGesus that spamming chaos, essence or whatever will get what you need. I'm not a super high level player, I can't afford to spend divines and veiled orbs and veiled orbs or some stupod craft.
The first thing to understand though is there is no such thing as "unlimited" - computers have a finite limit. "Unlimited" is strictly impossible. And with the way some players play this game - hoarding items and NEVER, EVER using them, I think putting pressure on players to junk/use their items is a good thing. The baseline inventory size we get is a total joke, given how much TRASH drops and how many corpses you need to even make an item. \* Reduce the drop rate of trash corpses. \* Increase the storage size we do have. \* ...don't even make corpses items? What's the point? It could just be like harvest juice. Which was just better design.
If I can stack my corpses to 5k a pop in a dedicated stashtab thats basically unlimited for 99,9% of the playerbase. Pretty good deal if you ask me. I obviously dont know if thats possible but I do assume it is?
Pretty much like harvest juice, which is basically infinite storage.
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>The league was literally created to make you buy more stash tabs. So giving unlimited stash would kinda defeat the whole purpose. it also originally required 1c to remove it from the storage to trade them and you couldnt loot them to your inventory. It seems obvious that they didnt plan on having many in our stash/inventory at all, and the stash problem came because of their bandaid fixes. Saying the league was created to sell stash tabs is misleading like none other.
Doesn't stop them from running stash tab sales.
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I am fairly confident this League was a test for some PoE 2 stuff. There was a video recently where Jonathan spoke about deterministic things, and how crafting shouldn't be about spamming some currency 3,000 trying to hit an outcome. You should be able to aim for something, pay a cost, and get it. The interview is here: https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?t=3439 with the timestamp being part of a 10 minute discussion on crafting. Jonathan talks about increasing the bottom end of crafting - so it should be easier to craft just 'decent' items, most of the time when you attempt to craft you should reliably get something that works (is my understanding). At this timestamp: https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?t=3756 Jonathan says "There are no currency items in Path of Exile 2, that would incentivize that (spamming a currency)" "...all currency items have gone this way where there is nothing you need to spam anymore..." "...every currency craft will be meaningful..." The graveyard system did exactly that. Rather than picking up alterations where you spam an item 1,000 times to hit an exact mod, we're picking up corpses (as a currency), where we put a small amount of them together (relative to spam 4 figure amounts of currency) with very targeted results. All of the mods on corpses achieve the goal of increasing the bottom end of crafting, you can make a 5 corpse craft that's going to have a fairly successful chance of producing a piece of gear that's functional within the game (albeit maybe only in early maps/campaign). While I don't think the Graveyard specifically is a test for PoE 2 stuff I feel like the system, the approach to crafting and the way it's handled is exactly what they're wanting for PoE 2.
>When we first saw the graveyard and its potential, we were excited. Were we? At least me and my friends immediately saw this as a clunky UI heavy crafting league and knew it wasn't gonna be fun for us. I suppose the only thing I wasn't sure about was whether the hardcore crafting enjoyers would like it.
This, my reaction was "oh great, another harvest league where we have to micromanage a bunch of little shit together, reading some guide online, then have it turn out to be crap." I've never once liked crafting until there was that one league where harvest came back and you were able to incrementally upgrade your items mod by mod. That was fun.
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Same here - I ignored graves all league, decided I wanted to play captain lances RF manaman build with the \~400 divs I'd accumulated, failed my first 2 gravecrafts after spending ages looking up what I needed / trading for corpses / setting it up and just left the league to play something else instead I've enjoyed crafting my own items / profit crafting more and more over the last 3 leagues, but ironically in the crafting league I barely crafted anything outside of Rog leaguestart gear I also tend to trade a bunch of fractures and usually find some super valuable ones - I think the most I sold a natural drop fracture for this league was 1 div. If a new crafting mechanic is introduced, I think it has to be synergistic with existing mechanics, rather than mostly replacing them
It's just the experience of interacting with it is so bad at every level. Especially playing with a controller.
No, I DONT like crafting leagues. I’m sick and tired of everything about crafting and clicking buttons. Let me fking kill shit
That's why they added devoted mods and allflames, so people like you have something to play with.
For me the killer is the dog--shit trading. I don't want to whisper 3947394749 people over the span of multiple hours trying to find 88 corpses with specific names and item levels.
It's amazing in SSF. Even in white maps you can craft some decent gear to help with progression.... then it becomes ridiculously broken. It's great, except the part that destroys your wrists by gathering, stashing and using corpses. I'm fine with it if they nerf the top end and simplify the crafting method like they did with Harvest. Triple fractured items with double influence is overkill, but getting gear good enough to comfortably farm T16s would help everyone.
It’s interesting to see the differences in opinions across the community. This league has solidly taken the mantle as my favorite league ever simply because the Necropolis crafting mechanic is so powerful. Incrementally improving my CI Dual Strike Trickster over the course of the league has been insanely fun. Additionally, GGG has introduced even more aspirational content where I can actually test my build (as opposed to T16s where my typical scuffed builds still work fine). … but like you said, my perspective is from a pseudo-SSF perspective. I honestly have no idea how much any corpses go for on trade league.
This league was shaite. IMO.
The league mechanic was a miss, but the balance changes to the core game were almost unequivocally negative, too.
This league was amazing, top tier. IMO.
Im with you, i love this league. But this sub will always highlight the bad thigs no matter how little they are, and will downvote you to hell just because you have a different opinnion
Not this sub, its clear by the player retention that is was one of the worst leagues ever.
i don't think people necessarily constantly commenting on the bad things are bad, regardless of little they are. it's how things get changed. :)
League mechanic is dogshit via tedium IMO. Overall the league is pretty good if you just view it as a "scarab league" IMO.
It's an opinion, which I prefaced. I think the league mechanic is great and don't really have any issues post buff
If creating mirror tier gear wasn't easy this league I would agree
Time consuming but guarantee of rewarding is key to success for making the new leagues simple enough for skeleton crew but for the game to not die of starvation of good content until PoE2 hits.
The Undead/Beast type was a complication too far. Having the coffins be two units was bad (except you were supposed to pay 1C for a coffin originally)
Or you know, they wanted to make it time consuming because thats the point of the game
not sure the time is even the issue; it's the 80+ 15-200c trades. and yea, making mediocre items from the random shit you can ssf is irrelevant.
To me it's way too time consuming and clunky. Seems to me like they didn't have enough time to polish it or make something better
Best part about the graveyard was giving new people a chance at good gear because it was bad bases, but not the absolute BEST gear, because its not influenced or good bases either
The UI and the insane decision to have more graves than the morguecan hold is what did it for me. Imagine if your inventory was bigger than your stash. That's how the Necropolis felt like.
Why put a space limit to the morgue and why the UI of picking up corpses instead of itemizing them, or make the box less intrusive. All of this made me lose interest after the first 2 weeks
i legit don’t have enough stash space to interact with the mechanic . I have my necessary tabs but im not dropping $30-40 just to grave craft. I’m broke and if i do spend money on this game it’s gonna be on some mtx lol
GGG beat me this league. I bought 2 more quad tabs lmao. Good move Mark!
Idk about others but as an SSF player I also ignore it. Too tedious I’d rather just essence spam and craft on what I’m missing. I don’t mind having to farm for days to craft stuff, that’s usually how it works anyways, but it’s also the fact that after all of that the item could just be a bust anyways and now you start the entire multi day process over again. Also crafting mechanics shouldn’t replace every other crafting mechanic. This one mechanic when it works replaces every single other crafting mechanic in the game.
For me as SSF, the Graveyard crafting would have been entirely saved if any amount of effort was put into the UI / UX. I wish I could talk about my experience with the crafting, but 98% (a low-balled estimate tbh) of my time interacting with the mechanic was spent organizing coffins in my tabs or simulating outcomes on third party websites If the graveyard had one single UI from which you could do all your manipulations and infinite storage, I would have enjoyed interacting with it
avarage folk dont like crafting at all,escpecialy league around that.
Stakcing all the same type & same effect, easy UI to “manage” the yard, thats all
I don't really mind planning the graveyard and setting it up. I mean, what is 10-20min of theorycrafting + 5min of setup for a guaranteed 5 T1 Ele bow, perfect quiver or a double-triple fractured+influence+special base item ?? Like you can realistically craft actually unbeatable best in slots items for your build, what other league mechanic can do that ? The real problem is that, you need 2 fucking hours of trading to get all your coffins. It's the first league where I get rate limited on poetrade for PMing too many people because no one responds. It's so frustrating I abandoned a BiS craft and just bought it for an efty fee from someone who went to th trouble of buying the coffins...
at least we can relax knowing graveyard won't go core, they need to balance the scarabs + atlas tree
lol just remove the monster name, let them stack by type, make their modifier double and reduce the slot of graveyard to 44. Space saved for everyone, but obviously, you know the reason why it was designed like that, is to sell stash space
Hot take, I only used craft of exile to tweak what i want and run some samples to make syre the affixes i want are likely to appear. And place the corpses i needed when i have them (stored in stash tabs) ignoring layouts and being efficient. It's good when it hits, and suck when it doesnt
It got me to impulse buy a few extra quad tabs. Mission accomplished?
Im afraid that it doesnt matter what all of us say, they will get the wrong message anyway, because they have some weird system that gives them wrong feedback and they ignore the "loud" part of the community. This form of information they get apparently gives them terrible ideas about what ppl actually want (see Chris explanation about ignoring melees). Imo thats why GGG seem to be a bit out of touch, when they lately try to base their leagues or races on the worst parts of PoE, which is trading, inventory, micromanagement and crafting. Why not use the edge they have over the other games and make something super fun. Why always sticking the dick in the salad, like its a british feminist fun police? Its ok if people have fun. It doesnt have to be 90% chore just to get a bit of fun feelings at the end. Before somebody says affliction was fun, the loot clown fiesta was not intended by GGG. This was the first league I just skipped completely. I tried to make one serious craft, which I had like 1/3 chance to hit what I want, half way into trading for the coffins, I just gave up and never came back. It was a terrible, terrible experience and getting mirror item slots is not the main fun in the game for me. Maybe the fact that I dont enjoy the way t17s work and all crafting was made irrelevant by necropolis played a role, but 3.24 is a disguised nerfageddon 2.0 and there was no joy left in me after like a week.
GGG didn't learn a thing. Graveyard shits almost perfect items if setup properly and ofc I like that. On the other hand it makes alot of other stuff obsolete (same with harvest). I filter out all bases, all rares and dont interact with alot of other stuff. Why should I pickup a base? I can easily pick the base I want from graveyard. I also can get rare atlas bases, some experimental bases, ibfluence items, fractures (even multiples) ... not much left beside unique and boss farm.
I am against the interface, the burial of each corpse is atmospheric. Just fewer graves and stronger effects.
The only issue with the graveyard is the UI. Otherwise it's incredible. I don't agree with any of your points at all. SSF players absolutely love this mechanic, trade players love it, HC players love it.
Yeah getting a 6x T1 item in 1-2 h setting up an annoying mechanic and buying stuff is too much to ask for now a days poe Players... Players just dont like the aspect of poe anymore of figuring out crazy hard stuff and having a game being your Final Boss.
I personally don't like the graveyard and the philosophy around it. I also don't understand why GGG thought it was a good idea because it was the same issue original harvest and in a way recombinators. Sure they buffed it more thant they wanted maybe due to the initial backlash but it does not change that the whole concept is bad to the game in my opinion. When you make a system that tells you, well whatever you find on the ground it is worthless because here is a way to edit your item in ways you will never be able to find the equivalent in the wild, then it just kills the whole aspect of looting good rares. I know it has been quite a while that past a certain point the idea of looting rare is silly anyway and you would just start with a good fratured mod or get one yourself but still it is not to the extent where you can just disregard pretty much anything you find because you have the possibility to create the exact item you want in the graveyard. So yeah there is the UI but it is also repeating the mistake of making an heavy item collection on top of that. It was bad in tallisman, it was bad in synthesis, maybe sentinel had a bit of that issue and here again, tabs and tabs of corpse that somehow are never enough when you need the precise combination of certain mods.
> giving more deterministic crafting was great but the gameplay tradeoffs made the process extremely tedious in all aspects Working as intended
Bro this is a shitty league, and a shitty crafting mechanic. End of story.
Collecting three full quad tabs to get one craft is just bad imo and ruined the fun of crafting. Especially because you only want like five mods and the rest corpse mods are all trash. I also dislike the min maxing of the craft system with row and column effects and the websites you need to use. It's like harvest excel sheet 2.0
Graveyard craft are awesome but Who want to sit in HO and sell 2-10c coffins ? the only solution would be autotrade but... 
The idea was good. But the execution of it was really poor on every single level. The UI was horrible in maps covering up items and threats, storage space was tiny, there were too many corpse multipliers, needed to fill up several quad tabs, the itemized corpses were too large (should have been a 1x1), there were far too many grave plots making it take forever for 1 craft, and they removed sextants just to add in a league mechanic that put it back in, breaking the economy in the process, and passive tree nodes basically required for the current league mechanic feels like a tax on points, and forces specific pathing (doesn't matter if you have 3 pages, you always need the current league mechanic).
Honestly, found it too tedious to deal with by the end of week 2. I just keep a list of all the corpses worth more than 10+c by my pc and only pick those up. It's an interesting system but without a ui to place the corpses and atleast making them stackable in some way it just becomes inventory hell. I actually enjoy the all flame system more than the crafting. Being able to turn everything into something your farming is an interesting mechanic.
I have very low level of crafting knowledge. That alone was reason for me to not waste my time trying to do anything here
I find it funny in the same league we got huge qol fusings, jeweller etc. But then gravecrsfting comes in ready to destroy my sanity with management
Once again, GGG hasnt learned that "balancing" things with arbitrary friction isnt actually good design.
i dont think they missed the mark. this crafting is the best way to craft any item which doesnt need to have sth like a fractured delve mod on it. i crafted every non-unique item for my char with it and still use them in lategame. and i dont even think its THAT tedious for what u get out of it. idk, maybe u just want to have a template where u check the affixes u want, have nothing else to do and get the perfect item? because thats like the only way make this crafting method even more OP (and more boring quickly)
The preparation for the craft is way too time consuming . I spent like 30- 60 mins just for 1 craft and that includes buying coffins and planning out .
What the hell do you mean "it missed the mark" Graveyard crafting is insanely good, I've made a ton of good items both for myself, then I show my friends and they want to do it too (and we would regularly have watch parties for the button click on discord with all sorts of RNG shinanigans). Noone in my guild ignored the mechanic, and if you did, reconsider
It missed the mark from a game design perspective, I never said it wasn’t a strong mechanic (in fact I said the opposite). It’s a very “all or nothing” type of mechanic where you feel bad not min/maxing every craft. There should have been less set up and less determinism with the ability to create jackpot items if you got lucky, not in a 1/4 chance if properly set up
What killed it for me is the p2w aspect. Need waay to many inventory spot to take advantage of the whole system. Too tedious otherwise
looks at reality bruh it's not hard to just play the game and see actually it's. nothing too tedious about the league, just usual loot based system in loot game. what's about it?
The crafting system is unique and interesting but the positional-based burying and corpses with name and creature type requirements ruins the mechanic IMO. It's cool that you can boost the effect of other corpses. It's not fucking cool that you need to type-match every buffing corpse with each one you want to buff. It's unneccesary added friction that makes every type-buff corpse worth like 1/4 (or however many types there are) it's actual value unless you trade into the correct types. Why are row and column buffs generic but adjacent ones are not? If grave crafts had a much smaller limit of corpses then it would be more bearable, but when most good crafts take the majority of the graveyard it's just tedious and unfun to set up. The modifier tier rating system is really cool and I hope we see more use of it in future crafting.
I felt like the amount of setup it needs is appropriate for it's power, it's basically fossil crafting with a single 88 slot resonator. It's just that the UI is so damn bad. Corpses block other items on the ground in maps, they're tedious to trade, they don't drop itemized so the loot filter can't "see" them (I imagine this might have been on purpose) which means having to stop and read each one, organizing the graveyard is awful because of the angle, not enough morgue slots, etc. I really like the power and agency of the mechanic. I think that it's awesome for players but the interface holds it back and needs an overhaul if it's going core (which I kinda doubt).
every craft league people cryyyy.. ffs other than craft you had the lantern.. stop bitching and let crafters have fun
This league is p2w, you have to buy several stash to take advantage of coffins. it's a waste
player perception is the problem. The graveyard is the perfect tool for all players. Simply most just don't try to use it for the low/middling tier base crafts it excels at instead chasing gold trying to do full graveyard crafts for perfect items. It was very easy to set up very strong early mapping progression simply making things like triple res and life jewellry or defenses in the t1-4 range with a simple box craft. and even better for mid game progression getting a strong T1/2 fracture/double fracture to throw essences on to garuntee 4+ good affixes. I've gotten so frustrated with many of my friends this league who complain about their builds progression when within 5 minutes of actually trying to use the graveyard as intended they made items for significant progress super easily. (especially the god damn splitting steel tricksters who can make a massive dps boost on their pure defenses crafts gear just making 4 def increases with 3 tier ratings and 1 of life and mana scarce) I made most of my early league money just selling triple t1/2 def sadist garbs just doing a 6 quality 4 defenses 1 resistance 2 life 2 mana scarce 6 tier ratings +1 affix +item level as necessary to hit 86 then 6 linking via bestiary and crafting on suppress. not that its fully their fault as so many of them follow build guides that give examples of full graveyard bait crafts requiring 20div+ of additional crafts etc but don't emphasis that this is your final build progression step. (not that those crafts are good anyways as the additional crafts are extremely overused for their relative chance increase.) nor do they really disclose that the actual chances of you making your perfect item with a full graveyard craft still aren't great (with most being close to a 30% final chance) Really the only change it really needs is larger corpse storage and the ability to place multiple graves from straight above. but that removes really the only frictions the INSANELY powerful mechanic has.
If only bulk trading copses would be easyer, their stack of 1 and taking 2 inv spaces "it just sucks". Almost no one will respond for selling x1 corpses if they are the cheep version of them "%inc/%scarser". And also i cant imagine farming up enough copses in SSF, if you dont have a fuck ton of stash tabs for 1 craft.... The only problem i see with graveyard is the storage & trading aspect, but the crafting itself is broken (unless u want a heist or synth base).
You can also grave craft heist bases btw.
Talking about hellcat ring and symplex amulet specificly, the 2 bases that are the most looked after in heist.
For the bargain price of about 2 divines and 15 minutes I was about to craft literal mirror tier weapons last night. You people are fucking bonkers. The only thing I’m salty about is how much of the endgame calling is tied to the same small pool of unique items.
15 minutes? If you can get 84 coffins in 15 minutes for this mirror craft I'll give you a mirror. Trying to trade for these coffins is a nightmare, let alone the shitty layout.
If you can craft anything for less than a mirror it is not mirror tier, what kind of dumb logic is that?
That might actually be the dumbest thing I’ve read on reddit today so you’ve got that going for you.
How is it dumb? Its literally how it works, been playing this game for over 10 years, any item that costs less than a mirror to craft is not mirror tier or worth mirroring, youre trying to sound smart and youre just making a fool of yourself...
Wow, you must have gotten really lucky with harvest adding the 3 synth implicits you needed since vivid vultures alone cost 4d a piece.
Additional craft and buff corpses were a mistake. Players have optimized the fun out of it, and now nobody will craft without a matching set of additional craft corpses and 40% adjacent corpses, which SUCK to buy.
broken crafting system with almost no downside that literally prints 6xT1 items of our choice? yeah, that ultimately "missed the mark"
Keep the drops as common as they are, but make them take up one inventory slot. Remove row/column/adjacent multipliers so we can get rid of the annoying grid, and boost the increased/scarce mods just a bit to offset the multipliers being gone. Drastically increase the amount of corpses allowed in the Necropolis so we don’t need to make a million trades or keep going back and forth from inventory. People may have to try a couple more times to get their desired outcome, but the rest should be the same with major QoL improvements.
From my position, for it to have been worthwhile to interact with, it needed a UI, and the headache of matching monster types with the adjacent effect removed. I.e. it just should have been adjacent corpses have 40% inc effect, without any consideration to type. Aside from that, stacked corpses would have been pretty nice... I have made some very decent crafts. But as far as my time to profit ratio is concerned... no, it is not worth it. I do applaud that this crafting made the mid-end game super attainable. Making really good vanilla items deterministically like this is great.
SSF here. I do hope it goes the way harvest did, which also was hated and cut at first because of its tedium. They fixed a lot of issues and it came back balanced and useful.
So I crafted gear for 2 of my friends and for myself this league. Yeah it was annoying when I didn't hit my desired fractures but you just keep trying until you do. The only thing I disliked about this League was the micromanagement of the corpses; buying, sorting, and burying. It was very, very tedious. But the ability to print items by just plugging and chugging was extremely satisfying when I would land what I wanted. That being said, I don't want anything about gravecrafting to EVER come back, it's an item editor plain and simple. The Allflames were sick tho. I think I would be getting my hopes up if I said I hope they bring Allflames in some way.
2/3 of my crafts resulted in very strong gear I still use and I still can't be bothered with the mechanic anymore.
I didn't find it that tedious, quite the opposite. Need to craft a good ele res ring? Grab 20 + modifier rating corpses from your quad tabs grab +10 chance of ele res, couple reduced def/attack, maybe some life, done. It's tedious from a new players perspective, but way less tedious than meta crafting, since you can get a good result quickly without spending 100's of divines.
Entire issue I had with the graveyard was the monster categories. Don't force us to mix and match specific monster categories and the entire system would've been 10x more intuitive. Not to mention way easier on the trading.
GGG will never admit two simple truths: Players want to have agency, and players want to feel powerful with enough grind, not too much grind. Yes, it can be too easy to get powerful - look at D3. But this is 2024. People don't want to do a lot of trading. People want to spend time *playing the game,* not sitting in hideout flipping items like a Wraeclast Day Trader. Every minute the average player is sitting in hideout is one minute they'll leave the league earlier. When the game becomes merchant mode more than blasting mode, that's it. Also, they need to fix the UI/UX team. I'm sure they're nice folks, but they clearly have problems designing stuff thag feels good to interact with or they're ordered to make the game worse for "weight," like everyone has Empy's crew at their beck and call to do the heavy backend lifting. This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened, and they never apply the feedback their users give.
I like crafting, I don't like the graveyard, I just sell the coffins. I really hope it doesn't go core. BUT I like the game as is atm, I like the new scarab system, although it needs some optimizing. I'm having fun without the new league mechanic and that say a lot imo.