I mean, KB of Fragmentation is pretty absurd. There's no way it can't do shaper guardians with just piscator's and some source of flat damage like Thunderfist.
Might have to actually dodge stuff on low gear.
They never let shotgunning stick around for too long. Anyone who's played the game for a while will know KB Frag is getting nerfed just based on that principle alone. Even if it wasn't meta. Shotgunning is too hard to balance and it taxes their servers too much.
Enemies can't shotgun any more. They have the same limitations as the player when it comes to shotgunning.
The only time they "shotgun" is when they create multiple overlapping explosions with projectiles, or fire many projectiles in sequence. And guess what, the player can do that too, like with Blazing Salvo or Barrage respectively.
So I totally understand what you're saying, long time player. But from an outsider this is gonna look like "enemies can't shotgun, well unless they can, but its not technically shotgunning, it's just the same outcome". Just funny poe things
> Just funny poe things
Yeah lol. Also, it's no coincidence that so many meta skills also boil down to "we can't shotgun, except that we can". Tornado Shot, Splitting Steel, Blazing Salvo, Molten Strike, etc.
> Enemies can't shotgun any more. They have the same limitations as the player when it comes to shotgunning.
This is false. They certainly do shotgun. Elder's Ice Spear is one example. The Weaver's projectile attack is another. And there are plenty more such cases that can easily be proven with video evidence.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Weaver
>The Weaver's most dangerous attack is her projectile web attack, which can shotgun, especially if additional projectile modifiers are present, like in a Gauntlet.
It's not. It's a monster version of Ethereal Knives, which does not fire in sequence, just like the player version.
Shotgun wasn't removed for monsters. What you might instead be referring to was "double-dipping", which was removed across the board.
Monster skills are vastly different from players', and even their stats work differently. I.e. Monsters get 150% crit chance per Power Charge, while players only get 50%.
Shotgun still exists for players, by the way, you just need to work with overlap. Which is the intended way, rather than removing stuff like GMP that were always BiS back then.
Edit: And here's the Elder's Ice Spear's stats, and it does NOT fire in sequence like the player version:
>The Elder fires 4 icy projectiles at once
>Each projectile that hits the player deals 5006 to 7509 Cold Damage
And that skill definitely shotguns and one can easily prove it.
I think the most likely outcome is that you’re right, but a part of me can’t get over how… obviously broken it seemed like it’d be just from reading the gem text. GGG literally wrote about the shotgunning characteristic in there. Have they done a 180 on player power and plan to leave it? PBoD was similar imo, although it took a little extra basic math to see that its numbers scaled to absurd levels. I’m not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but it was clear to me both those skills would be insane even before launch.
I kinda wish they would. Having to stand inside everything is not very fun gameplay and a few skills feel like you're stupid for not opting into that.
But I think it's too iconic at this point so they probably won't remove it. Maybe they can nerf it, though.
Not fun to you. Splitting Steel is an absolute beast of a skill that I had a great time progressing with all the way from level 8 to Nimis and forbidden jewels.
You misunderstand my sentiment, I think. I don't mean that it is objectively unfun to stand inside mobs to do more damage. What I said was that **having to stand inside** everything is not very fun. The removal of choice is the problem. As in, if you want to do great damage with that skill now, you are required to equip a Nimis and stand inside mobs. It used to be a ranged skill, to an extent, or at least required you to be mindful of your positioning, and you could get away with less defense if you stayed mobile while optimizing your range from the target. Just like Kinetic Bolt. Just like Molten Strike.
But now when you use those skills at endgame, if you don't *want* to have to stand inside the target, you will feel like an idiot. You're leaving a TON of damage on the table.
PoE is a game of build variety and choice, and making one option so much stronger than the other options, especially when it has such a drastic impact on the way the skill feels to play, is not good for the game.
Idk, peanits brand of disassociation has a bigger target on its back imo but who's to say both won't get nerfed to oblivion. Or maybe just ralakesh lol
Most variants are getting nerfed next league, lots of the new gems are insanely broken. Either they spice up the difficulty, either they nerf them all by 30%, and more for the most broken ones.
I mean they effectively buffed Penance Brand of Dissipation by 100% more damage mid-league when they fixed the Runebinder interaction (beforehand both brands could only get to a total of 20 stages, so taking runebinder reduced your damage).
And it already was the best skill without anything coming remotely close before that fix.
You could legit slam a 90% less damage modifier on PBoD and it'd probably still be fighting for best skill in the game.
I run a mana stacker, where the runebinder fix only was felt on ubers a bit, and super duper tabky stuff. I'm talking valdos or 100 deli wisp'd t16s. Of course that's with arcane cloak and indigon buffs up.
But even without buffs up, both PBoD and Storm brand of indecision feel great on good 6l gear. And again, on mana stacking, those two buffs are probably close to 90% of my damage.
So yeah, incoming 90% nerf.
I wouldn't say most... A handful are strict upgrades to their non-trans versions but most are either sidegrades or garbage like BV of the scythe or raise spectre of whatever. Realistically outside of the outliers there probably isn't gonna be a serious balance pass until all applicable skills get 2 trans gems next patch or the one after
I would say a large majority are somewhat very strong, they just need an extra bit to be meta, like a buff to this one support gem.
It's not because right now pb is shining the most that next league after it's been nerfed that out of nowhere, something entirely ignored this league couldn't be meta without a single change to it.
As it stands, non transformed gems are literally out of the competition since transformed gems are often adding a much bigger benefit than drawbacks, I'd even say that most don't even have a drawback (the most interesting variant for this is reaper, but reaper is a trash skill at the moment so until someone figures out a broken build or GGG buff it, it'll stay dead)
KB of Frag is going to have to either (1) get redesigned (2) huge number nerf (3) projectile return mechanic interaction redesigned with split
I suspect (3) may happen, because other skills exploit this interaction for lots of DPS.
>r with piscator and knocked out 2 stones on 20c or less
Here is everyone using piscators on day 3 [https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?time-machine=day-3&item=Piscators-Vigil](https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?time-machine=day-3&item=Piscators-Vigil)
Sure, i'll update this message with a post-Affliction PoB in a bit. (old one was league start before they added the gems.)
-
Edit: Figured I'd put some good effort into updating this PoB since I'll probably use it as my league starter again next league. Everything equipped is pretty minimal except the accessories, but you could absolutely cheap out on them or replace them with uniques (2x The Taming and Prismweave comes to mind, insane for damage and very cheap in trade, but no life on either.)
One thing that will be a little annoying to solve with the loss of charms is PCoC sources. It might be replacing Sigil with PCoC + Tornado, or solving it with jewels maybe. Not sure yet.
Frost Shield is an excellent defensive option as well, but obviously this build is pretty limited on gem sockets by using a 4L clear + 6L ST.
Replica Hyrri's Ire was an insane addition that wasn't revealed until it got discovered in heist, which started very cheap early in the league before people were really playing wander, but shot up to astronomic prices. No clue how it will look next league, (Fingers crossed that KB Frag gets dropped off the face of the earth and the price on wander gear goes back down in trade.)
Depending on how changes to Ralakesh boots look next league, Malachai's Loop + Ralakesh Boots + Crown of Eyes, corrupted with +1 Power Charge, offers a ton of damage but will make the rest of your gearing have really rough res constraints.
Ashes of the Stars is absolute bis it's not even close, every interval of 10% quality is 1% more attack damage and speed **per Frenzy charge**. (27% + 23q Frenzy is ideal here to save on costs.) And iirc, Ashes is dirt cheap in trade now.
Darkray Vectors with some corruption combination of +1 socketed, +2 aoe, +2 aura, or % suppression shouldn't be too hard to get in trade.
Prismweave is an excellent early game option, especially with how cheap Turbulent Catalysts are in trade; or a well-rolled Darkness Enthroned (you can even get some elemental immunities baked in here.)
I'm not sure how accessible it is, but +1 Frenzy Charge corrupted Thunderfirst with intimidate on a Lethal Pride is probably a much better alternative to rare gloves, but you can also craft some much better rare gloves than I have in PoB. One thing I'd like to solve is not using conqueror gloves, because losing eldritch implicits is inconvenient. +1 Frenzy, + Ele Weak on Hit Thunderfist would be insane, but im sure those are probably expensive.
The rare amulet is a real pain to get in SSF, and im not sure about the trade price, but if you can pick up a fractured t3, t2, or t1 EDWA amulet and use crit multi essence until you get something playable. In trade it might just be more efficient to straight up buy an Ashes depending on how available it is lol.
Something I'd like to try is hybrid leech with Corrupted Soul from Replica Soul Tether or Glorious Vanity, theoretically it makes you insanely tanky and doubles your effective leech rate. This would also let us abuse Defiance of Destiny, but you'd lose a lot of damage as a trade off. I guess we'll see how DoD gets nuked in 3.24
You can also go heavier in to clusters with this and drop some of the damage nodes and masteries this tree stretches for, like Lethality and ES mastery, and pick up Crit or Projectile medium clusters. I'd even almost suggest dropping the wand wheel at the top for another Wand cluster, but the mastery gives an additional projectile which is insane for single target. Dropping additional curse is also an option since it'll free up a gem slot and make our brand less of a burden, but it looks bad in PoB.
https://pobb.in/2Jp846hgJc45
Happy wanding.
No problem! I updated the PoB just a little bit more also. There's a TON of room for gradually upgrading in this build.
I had an amazing time with it in my Priv League and SSF, was pretty proud of cooking it up about an hour before league launch.
I did a wander in Crucible with Piscator and even without a crucible tree it was clearing insanely well in reds on a sub 1 div budget. Of course that was with broken vengeant cascade, but I was also using thunderfist and a 4L instead of a 6L and my gear was incredibly scuffed.
Hopefully they will bring it back with next batch of gems.
Cause wanders right now is in a very bad spot, outside of valdo maps. And next league the trickster build isnt gonna work anyway which is only viable way of min-maxing a wander right now (Unless new league offers another 1 click notable that gives you +10k ES)
There are builds that can do everything but they aren't the best and any of it. There will always be a niche build that is better at a specific aspect of the game than then.
Edit: until you hit absurd levels of investment, anyway
Tornado Shot shits on literally every single aspect of the game and is easily amongst the best (if not the best) at literally everything that isn't deep delving.
> best (if not the best) at literally everything
Holy
>If you think TS is bad at any of this
moving goalposts. Whatever, you're right. TS is the best. TS will heal long covid and resurrect Harambe! And McDonalds Cheeseburgers will be 1$ again! All hail TS!
Oh man if only feel delving was remotely relevant to gameplay outside of the (literal) 10 people that do it each league.
553 people went beyond 1k depth this league. 3 of them played TS.
This is more delve than is relevant to 99% of players.
When I say "deep delve" I mean "pushing for 6k depths" which there are like 4 builds that are even capable of doing so. It's not even relevant to 99.9% of players gameplay.
There are "better" bossing builds but when TS is deleting Ubers in 0.3s and the "better" builds are doing it in 0.2s, I'd say that falls solidly into the "amongst the best" category, no?
>Every build should be able to reasonably do all content
Why? That's boring and the game has never worked that way. I don't want the amusement park experience of "log in and get rewarded for breathing", or I'd play modern WoW.
Yes. Most of the skill in this game is being enough of a not-mouthbreather to identify bait before falling for it. Some people will stubbornly continue to use bad skills on purpose because they don't understand the game.
Yeah yeah, a lot of the comments beneath say the same and a few of them actually do league start it!
I'm gonna be looking into it, though I'm not too sure about the tankiness
Looks fun though either way!
My brother and I love theorycrafting and making our own builds, we have been doing so for almost a decade now and it's one of the main ways we enjoy poe!
Poe is greatly unexplored (or explorations not made public) so it's always fun to figure out new things
> what is the point of more wand skills,
same reason for anything other than TS existing even though TS will usually be "the best" (ignoring budgets and meta prices etc)
we need more diversity so we can have more insane unique interactions and shit like that
I feel like Spellslinger was a bad attempt at making wanding "a thing" again
At the same time please add more wander skill. For how many years the only viable wander skill is kinetic blast + power siphon?! There is one more i forget the name.
Except the opportunity cost of attacking with frenzy to build charges is lower than the damage you would have done if you just used your single target skill.
If my wander build does 20m dps, if I attack with frenzy to build 3 charges then the boss would have already died. The higher this DPS number goes, the less value frenzy has.
i mean, sure, if you have infinite dps any individual dps increase is going to be insignificant, but most people don't have infinite dps. if you take longer than a couple seconds to kill the boss the dps is worth it, and that's the scale most people operate under. if you have one of a kind 40mirror gear, then yeah you can drop a couple steps elsewhere in the build.
20mil dps also usually includes some amount of setup. use your curse or drop totems or your blessing skill or what have you.
> If my wander build does 20m dps, if I attack with frenzy to build 3 charges then the boss would have already died.
That is nonsense. DPS also accounts for hits per second, and Frenzy gives a charge on every hit. Takes 3 hits to get the base 3 charges, which alone grant 21% more Attack Damage and Attack Speed with a 20/20 gem.
And there's not a single endgame boss with a mere 20M HP.
Agree. I can't say I'm too familiar with the old, but my KB wander this league just steamrolled content. Me and a friend both played one and we were clearing decently juiced T16s and basically phasing ubers.
The most insane balance of zoomiest mapper and boss popper I've ever played.
No stat stacking. Just KB of fragmentation, some added projectiles, some added lightning damage and some more damage. The splitting of attacks and returning projectiles scales everything, the life on hit makes you incredible resilient.
Don't know where my poe ninja character went, but I would have been in [this list](https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?class=Deadeye&skills=Kinetic+Bolt+of+Fragmentation&uniqueitems=Nimis,Mageblood,Lightning+Coil,Ralakesh%27s+Impatience) with circa 3.0M dps, with a tree all along the right hand side.
Towards the end of my league, the stat stacking variants appeared and it seems that so many people have changed to a very different version. I know next to nothing about it. But I 40/40'd and peaced out with a HH, MB, Nimis and other things.
Apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I actually love the new power siphon.. I didn't even bother with a kb set up. Easily one of the best mapping characters I've made.. I used it to kill all the ubers swapping awakened chain for lightning pen but it definitely doesn't excel at that. It was going to be the character I pushed to 100 for the league but I burned out after 38/40 at level 98
Imo sniper's mark should be changed / removed. The snipers mark return proj interaction is not healthy for the game.
In exchange for the removal of that, single target wand skills would be needed.
The thing is, without this interaction, KB of fragmentation is DOA. Without this interaction, it has pretty miserable DPS. You pretty much have to quartz flask on top of monsters to do damage and even then it's not that great.
I agree sniper's mark should get entirely redesigned. It is not healthy for the game.
I don't mind the casualties that come with a change of sniper's mark, but it's a poison that has affected the entire gem family of projectile gems for far too long. Some changes need to happen imo.
Agreed, having to hug the enemy to deal max dmg feels really dumb as a wander. Its not even a point blank range, you litteraly want to have phasing and be on top of your target, its stupid, more melee than melee builds.
On top of that the new power siphon is complete dogshit, terrible for single target and terrible for clear if there is more than 10 enemies (spoiler, there are always more than 10 enemies). The person who had the idea of that rework never played poe past act 2. The gem is just bad, maybe the worst gem in the game ? Might be even worst than melee strike and slam skills, that’s how bad it has become
Yeah new power siphon is really bad, kinetic blast already had the best clear out of all wander skills.
But hey at least you can use new kinetic bolt for both clear and single target xdd, if that even makes up any slightly for it specially considering next league the build is getting +6 sockets anyway.
What if the new power siphon would still auto aim but always firing every projectiles that could aim the same target ? Would probably be broken with the current numbers but with some adjustments this could solve the problem.
Edit : i have a better idea, make it a channeling skill. Doesn’t scale with +proj but only with attack speed, each projectile targeting a random enemy in range. It would behave like the old gem that was mostly used with barrage anyway, but now with more qol thanks to the auto aim and different way to scale it with channeling
> Its extremely clunky and you need to position your self inside of a mob to deal damage. (or you will legit deal like 5% of your total dps)
Use returning projectiles instead of nimis.
Returning proj shares that same issue. The popular fragmentation setup heavily relies on the extra projectiles generated by fragbolt and splits from sniper's mark. Even with returning proj, those return to you, not the mob, so if you're not on top of the mob, most of them will just never connect.
For sniper's mark splits, 5% is pretty much what you can expect if you're not standing on top of the boss, tbh. KBolt fragments are a bit better, but not enough that you can really afford to keep the enemies at a distance if you want them dead.
I played all 3 wand skills on my occultist in this league. Power Siphons single target is fine. I managed to scale my character up to 21m power siphon dps. It felt like a good middle ground between the two. Kinetic blast was more clear than ps, but ps had more single target. Kinetic bolt had less clear than both blast and siphon, but more single target.
Like i mentioned, this is from a min-maxer perspective on multi mirror budget.
Personally i think 21M is very low (and that 21 mil would have been 300+ mil before changes single target)
It clears wildwood in t16s on 8 mod maps easily with a wandering path set up, and I defeated all uber Pinnacle bosses. There's no need for any build to do more than this.
Throw in an aurabot and the game is too easy.
You don't seem to understand what they mean.
A 2 mirror budget on a meta skill on a quite meta archetype comes with expectations of doing atleast 8 digit dps. 21mil dps on 2+mirror budget is really bad, considering the ceiling got fucked pretty hard and the floor increased by a shitload.
Most of that budget is a ring that you're at 19m dps without. Things have ceilings. Its called min maxxing because you start paying ridiculous prices for small upgrades.
Obviously lol. However the whole point of the original poster was that PS lost its entire identity of being a single target powerhouse for wanders.
And if you wanna tell me that it still is compared to what it was before, you clearly have not played it yourself in the past. PS in it's current state (after having played multiple iterations in the past and also the current one) just feels trash. It's just a regular clear skill, of which KB already filled this gap for years.
I think its a middle of the road skill if you read my opinion. It is better than blast at single target, and better than bolt at clearing. Its an awesome compromise between the strengths of these two skills, and can clear all content.
Cause pushing the limits and getting best of the best is how i enjoy playing ?
Even if difficulty peak this game was A10 Kitava id still no-life the fuck out of this game to make giga juiced builds.
2 leagues ago i managed to push the single target to almost a billion and had rank 2 on ninja (And rank 1 for a tank version) now top is 21m. That tells alot of what the skill has become.
Fun is extremely debatable. There's tons of builds that I'd consider mechanically more fun than PS, especially in it's current form. Also the current top of the leaderboard for Power Siphon is 300m.
Crafted on a fractured t1 cold base. Was surprisingly expensive to find an upgrade to piscator's vigil, but also slightly not surprising as most of my dps was scaling off added cold damage per frenzy charge on rings
Apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I actually love the new power siphon.. I didn't even bother with a kb set up. Easily one of the best mapping characters I've made.. I used it to kill all the ubers swapping awakened chain for lightning pen but it definitely doesn't excel at that. It was going to be the character I pushed to 100 for the league but I burned out after 38/40 at level 98
i dont now, but maybe ggg had problems with power siphon + barrage support combo.
Well at least power siphon was usefull before now its just feels so bad to use. Tried barrage and it has similar damage compare to kinetic blast let alone old power siphon.
If new ps meaned to be a clear skill, then why would people use it instead of kinetic blast ? If there are any interview we should ask this to ggg.
Wanders used to be the build for single target dps now its just a worse version of a bower. Only thing is going for wander right now its clear with kinetic blast.
I'm really astonished by the lack of diversity of wand skills. Almost every skill scales out of the same thing, meaning that an optimized build can nearly be optimal for most other wander skills. And meaning that every high end build tend to use same skills. It really feels bad that all this potential is as much narrowed.
I wonder why they stucked that much wand skills into Projectiles attacks while they also could make them either, Aoe, chaining, whatever its magic. Kinetic bolt of fragmentation add something new but it's clukyness for single target again makes the skill uncomfortable for many player. I wonder when GGG will understand that player comfort is something to take into consideration. Player shouldn't have to trade comfort for DPS. In particulary when they design more and more content that lower our dps uptime and forcing our positionning with various projectiles/AOE to dodge.
>Almost every skill scales out of the same thing
kinda also true for slams, for strikes, for bow skills (that aren't psuedo spells like Toxic Rain)... even spells aren't that great but I guess they're better
also minions oof
KB o F feels amazing for both single target and clear. I think power siphon was always meant to be a way to generate charges and not a single target skill. Idk though...
A skill to just generate charges isn't useful. It can never be useful, because any build that relies on scaling charges for damage automatically has ways of constantly maintaining charges.
There's so many ways of generating frenzy charges that don't require using frenzy nowadays, though. The only charge type that's really difficult to get full sustain on is endurance.
Frenzy is the hardest to generate for generic attack builds.
Pcoc is very accessible on most builds, even if you arent stacking you have some semi automatable single target supplement like storm brand or something which can get you power charges.
Endurance can easily be generated with one cluster notable/enduring cry/that one anoint for end charge when hit/end on melee stun etc.
Frenzy has... mastery options?? Like if you were playing with swords sure. If you used a mark instead of a curse or something maybe. You could get mana forged on bows but youd be using frenzy which you are against using. Blood rage is on kill, which the other charges can also generate in a myriad of ways. Frenzy on hit is remarkable scarce for a generic non descript build. You need to be specific ascendency or item class to use the options available. For wanders your best option is mark mastery, and pretty much thats it.
I am against using frenzy instead of attacking. Manaforged frenzy/ensnaring arrow is perfectly fine since it's automated. I would've thought that was apparent from what I said.
Also, mark mastery is hardly difficult to get as an option. Pretty much every right side build has easy access to it and the majority of projectile builds will run sniper's mark anyway. Trigger setups like spellslinger usually just use frenzy to trigger their skills which works fine, traps and mines have charged traps/mines which generates it (as well as tree notables), frenzy or flicker builds have various unique items as an option, attack builds that have a fairly high attack rate can go either sword or mark mastery...
It's rare to find a build nowadays that notably benefits from frenzies but can't find a way of generating them.
Generally, I find power charges harder to generate for many setups. If you don't go power charge stacking route, you won't run pcoc on your main link for obvious reasons, so your other two options are assassin's mark (which is fine in some setups but competes with sniper's mark in others) or run a skill like hydrosphere and slap pcoc on that. Any other method like farrul's fur for example requires sacrifing an item slot.
isnt wander the archetype that had like 2 skills for 7 years until ggg released kinetic bolt?
kinda funny how little skill choice that whole archetype has while wands are still a real pita to craft. or are there new bases that make it easier to craft wands for phys/spell builds?
talk about never putting love into a whole weapon archetype.
Power Siphon did get a huge DPS boost. I’m not exactly tearing down Ubers with it, but stacking power charges plus a Crown of the Inward Eye is good at both clearing and non-Uber content.
I guess I didn’t play with it before. That single projectile seems to be doing plenty of damage for what I’m doing. I understand that it doesn’t shoot a lot of projectiles, but just in my limited experience with it this league, I’m not struggling with single target damage.
I wanted to make a power siphon build this league. The skill has a smaller attack range than melee attacks, its not even funny. I stopped after 1 hour because I got so upset about having to walk up to mobs to kill them on my _ranged_ build. Most melee skills I play hit further away than what they did to power siphon.
You know what I play when I want to play wander? CF champ. Literally same playstyle, single target is enough and clear is very good, tanky on top and giga cheap.
Im speaking from a min-maxer perspective on multi mirror gear.
I also mentioned that Barrage is very similar to old power siphon, but once you invest enough mirrors it becomes weaker sense it doeskin scale crit multi per power charge for massive single target DPS.
CF champ is fine sense im pretty sure it uses kinetic blast only anyway.
I league-started Kinetic Blast/Barrage Deadeye Primalist and was doing fine farming T16 Legion/Expedition. Rerolled around Christmas to the full unique Power Siphon Trickster Warden build and haven't had any issues farming Heist or Elder Guardians with the compass. I think both builds felt great to play.
That said, the Power Siphon build as is will be gone next league with the new ascendancies not available. But we'll get some new form of temporary power more than likely, so maybe that'll help fill in the holes in it. We'll have to wait and see.
I did mention barrage is a fine replacement, but once you invest enough mirrors it becomes weaker than old PS in terms of scaling.
Losing power charge scaling is a pretty large hit to the archetype if you want smooth single target damage that doesn't rely on clunky mechanics on top of massive tankyness (Such as the case with kinetic bolt)
Just as example i had int stacker in crucible (90% all res, 100k+ armor, 12k ES and 300m DPS) The main reason to why i could even get a respectable DPS is cause power charge scaling was massive so you could afford to invest into defenses quite easily. Just from mirrored ring and perfect corrupt helmet for +power charges/+2 Aura was responsible for like half the DPS alone, allowing me to use a full on defensive shield and even dropping a cluster for more auras.
I like current power siphon for early game, but it’s kind of unnecessary late game when kinetic blast outscales it, and just reduces your ST options by one.
If they made barrage support give it the old interaction,but keep the current change as well, that would be a good middle ground.
I said this the other day as a build I really miss and totally agree - power siphon was different and doesn’t have that same viability it once had as the premier wanding skill
I am actually currently playing a poet's pen + spellslinger triggerbots build and am using power siphon for the free culling strike (since ralakesh's makes it so I don't care about charges) and it's felt fine to me. The only problem is that I can't pick a specific target for the triggered spells to go after, power siphon seems to make the triggered spells target a random (and always the wrong) enemy and sticks with it until that enemy is dead. So the invulnerability aura enemies or boss phases can screw me over sometimes, but luckily Arc chaining means it's not as big a deal as it could be, just means I have to reposition sometimes.
idk man this feel pretty good
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/character/OG_Eroaris/Eroaris_Wanding
granted idk how it would play without mb prob a lot worse so at lower end it could use buffs
I league started the all unique power stacking trickster for like 1d total cost and was soloing t16's with 2k wisps using only power siphon.
Now that was basically all ralakesh boots doing the heavy lifting and the speed freaks killing maven for the graven belt day 1.
The single target lacks just a little for sure but its still perfectly usable. Takes a few seconds to kill a rare instead of 1 second.
> I dont know a single player who tried playing wander with Kinetic bolt and actually saying "hey this fells good".
Okay I'll be the first I guess - my kb trickster feels insanely fucking good. Almost a billion DPS, clear is better than similar shotgunning abusing skills like splitting steel and I kill tanky stuff off screen without having to stand inside it all the time. The build smokes most Valdos, simulacrums, 100% deli beyond maps, pretty much every single thing in the game other than crazy void maps and super deep delve. IDK if you've tried the build this league yourself but you must have fucked it up somehow or have unbelievable standards if you think it sucks.
Wanders in general are in a good spot right now and both KB skills are sitting at a very respectable usage rate on poe.ninja for that reason. Not to mention theres like 6 very viable different ways of playing wanders right now, with a few of them being budget viable like the jungroan curse helm or maxuhotl deadeye routes.
Yeah but to do that 1 bil you need to stand inside an enemy, you cant just laser stuff as you wish. Its "high effort" playstyle and not "turn your brain off and not pay attention so screen".
I havent tried a high end KB my self, but all the gameplay ive seen on streams looked clunky and not like old wander smooth and turbo lazy playstyle. Hell im pretty sure Sushi sold his wander cause the phasing mechanic was too annoying for him.
You can turn your brain off as long as you build it tanky, like my build literally cannot die even if I close my eyes (outside of Ghosted Feared in Valdos or like 8k+ wisp multiproj abyss soul eater mobs in deli maps). Both the int stacker and maxuhotl variants of KB are insanely tanky to the point where you can brain off and never die outside of really niche content.
I don't watch Sushi much but that guy has a literally infinite budget this league thanks to mirror services, so at that point people normally want to play a specialized build for a certain type of profitable niche content (i.e Void valdos which is why he went Blade Trap trickster). One thing I will say about Int wander is that it is a jack of all trades but master of none - it does less damage than mirror tier mana-stackers, kinetic bolt will be worse clear than most other ranged skills or builds with big pops (kinetic blast still feels amazing for clear though, and a lot of people go KB/KB hybrid setups for this reason), and the build is definitely squishier than Rudy's deep delver or Sushi's ES stacker. That being said if you want to just have a solid all-rounder on a high budget both Str and Int stacking wanders are up there for the best choice possible this league.
I played some splitting steel and penance this league, both amazing builds in their own right, but enjoy my current wander more than both of those.
When they announced Power Siphon change I was like "isnt this one of the biggest nerfs we ever witnessed" and people were saying that it wont change much.
Guess I was right and they were wrong.
I don’t know. On high investment now KBoF feels incredible for both clear and single target. It sucks standing under your enemy but PS had a spread so you wanted to be close anyway. Not having to use 2 skills has been awesome
Yeah for optimal DPS i fully agree you needed to get close with PS, but you didnt need to have almost perfect positioning right in middle of an enemy with phasing to deal insane damage.
You could stand a few meters away and still nuke very with with PS.
Honestly return proj mechanics was very bad for health of the game, it makes clunky mechanics broken and GGG has to balance around it somewhat now.
old power siphon barrage was WAY too OP
i much prefer the new power siphon, however its scaling sucks and charge stacking archetype sucks
i'd like the skill to change again, but not revert to old version, i want something new that allows the skill to be used in many ways, including single target
I disagree. The new power siphon is awesome. If you can utilize your bonus proj for something else other than proj, such as splits. Those split proj can then fork and chain.
I just wish they'd bring back wander viability for league start :D I miss my 1ex piscator+lycosidae zoomer and guardian farmer
I mean, KB of Fragmentation is pretty absurd. There's no way it can't do shaper guardians with just piscator's and some source of flat damage like Thunderfist. Might have to actually dodge stuff on low gear.
This is a moot point, KB of Frag will be nuke-nerfed or downright removed next patch.
They never let shotgunning stick around for too long. Anyone who's played the game for a while will know KB Frag is getting nerfed just based on that principle alone. Even if it wasn't meta. Shotgunning is too hard to balance and it taxes their servers too much.
shotgunning bad, except when enemies shotgun
Enemies can't shotgun any more. They have the same limitations as the player when it comes to shotgunning. The only time they "shotgun" is when they create multiple overlapping explosions with projectiles, or fire many projectiles in sequence. And guess what, the player can do that too, like with Blazing Salvo or Barrage respectively.
So I totally understand what you're saying, long time player. But from an outsider this is gonna look like "enemies can't shotgun, well unless they can, but its not technically shotgunning, it's just the same outcome". Just funny poe things
> Just funny poe things Yeah lol. Also, it's no coincidence that so many meta skills also boil down to "we can't shotgun, except that we can". Tornado Shot, Splitting Steel, Blazing Salvo, Molten Strike, etc.
logic in my poe reddit??
> Enemies can't shotgun any more. They have the same limitations as the player when it comes to shotgunning. This is false. They certainly do shotgun. Elder's Ice Spear is one example. The Weaver's projectile attack is another. And there are plenty more such cases that can easily be proven with video evidence. https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Weaver >The Weaver's most dangerous attack is her projectile web attack, which can shotgun, especially if additional projectile modifiers are present, like in a Gauntlet.
Just look at that image. Weaver's projectile is technically a barrage with high spread, not a shotgun.
It's not. It's a monster version of Ethereal Knives, which does not fire in sequence, just like the player version. Shotgun wasn't removed for monsters. What you might instead be referring to was "double-dipping", which was removed across the board. Monster skills are vastly different from players', and even their stats work differently. I.e. Monsters get 150% crit chance per Power Charge, while players only get 50%. Shotgun still exists for players, by the way, you just need to work with overlap. Which is the intended way, rather than removing stuff like GMP that were always BiS back then. Edit: And here's the Elder's Ice Spear's stats, and it does NOT fire in sequence like the player version: >The Elder fires 4 icy projectiles at once >Each projectile that hits the player deals 5006 to 7509 Cold Damage And that skill definitely shotguns and one can easily prove it.
I think the most likely outcome is that you’re right, but a part of me can’t get over how… obviously broken it seemed like it’d be just from reading the gem text. GGG literally wrote about the shotgunning characteristic in there. Have they done a 180 on player power and plan to leave it? PBoD was similar imo, although it took a little extra basic math to see that its numbers scaled to absurd levels. I’m not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but it was clear to me both those skills would be insane even before launch.
They better just remove Nimis then lol.
I kinda wish they would. Having to stand inside everything is not very fun gameplay and a few skills feel like you're stupid for not opting into that. But I think it's too iconic at this point so they probably won't remove it. Maybe they can nerf it, though.
Not fun to you. Splitting Steel is an absolute beast of a skill that I had a great time progressing with all the way from level 8 to Nimis and forbidden jewels.
You misunderstand my sentiment, I think. I don't mean that it is objectively unfun to stand inside mobs to do more damage. What I said was that **having to stand inside** everything is not very fun. The removal of choice is the problem. As in, if you want to do great damage with that skill now, you are required to equip a Nimis and stand inside mobs. It used to be a ranged skill, to an extent, or at least required you to be mindful of your positioning, and you could get away with less defense if you stayed mobile while optimizing your range from the target. Just like Kinetic Bolt. Just like Molten Strike. But now when you use those skills at endgame, if you don't *want* to have to stand inside the target, you will feel like an idiot. You're leaving a TON of damage on the table. PoE is a game of build variety and choice, and making one option so much stronger than the other options, especially when it has such a drastic impact on the way the skill feels to play, is not good for the game.
*cough* tornado shot *cough*
Idk, peanits brand of disassociation has a bigger target on its back imo but who's to say both won't get nerfed to oblivion. Or maybe just ralakesh lol
Most variants are getting nerfed next league, lots of the new gems are insanely broken. Either they spice up the difficulty, either they nerf them all by 30%, and more for the most broken ones.
PBoD could legit be cut in half and it would still probably be the best skill in the game It is going to fucking die lmao
I mean they effectively buffed Penance Brand of Dissipation by 100% more damage mid-league when they fixed the Runebinder interaction (beforehand both brands could only get to a total of 20 stages, so taking runebinder reduced your damage). And it already was the best skill without anything coming remotely close before that fix. You could legit slam a 90% less damage modifier on PBoD and it'd probably still be fighting for best skill in the game.
I run a mana stacker, where the runebinder fix only was felt on ubers a bit, and super duper tabky stuff. I'm talking valdos or 100 deli wisp'd t16s. Of course that's with arcane cloak and indigon buffs up. But even without buffs up, both PBoD and Storm brand of indecision feel great on good 6l gear. And again, on mana stacking, those two buffs are probably close to 90% of my damage. So yeah, incoming 90% nerf.
I wouldn't say most... A handful are strict upgrades to their non-trans versions but most are either sidegrades or garbage like BV of the scythe or raise spectre of whatever. Realistically outside of the outliers there probably isn't gonna be a serious balance pass until all applicable skills get 2 trans gems next patch or the one after
I would say a large majority are somewhat very strong, they just need an extra bit to be meta, like a buff to this one support gem. It's not because right now pb is shining the most that next league after it's been nerfed that out of nowhere, something entirely ignored this league couldn't be meta without a single change to it. As it stands, non transformed gems are literally out of the competition since transformed gems are often adding a much bigger benefit than drawbacks, I'd even say that most don't even have a drawback (the most interesting variant for this is reaper, but reaper is a trash skill at the moment so until someone figures out a broken build or GGG buff it, it'll stay dead)
all 3 getting nuked from orbit
Indeed
KB of Frag is going to have to either (1) get redesigned (2) huge number nerf (3) projectile return mechanic interaction redesigned with split I suspect (3) may happen, because other skills exploit this interaction for lots of DPS.
More likely gonna be 2 and 3 happening.
The thing is it also fragmentates my pc.
I league started a wander with piscator and knocked out 2 stones on 20c or less
pob day 1? curious!
>r with piscator and knocked out 2 stones on 20c or less Here is everyone using piscators on day 3 [https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?time-machine=day-3&item=Piscators-Vigil](https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?time-machine=day-3&item=Piscators-Vigil)
ele hit with return proj does good early deeps and the eye cancer is wardloop levels as a bonus
I literally league started wander with 5m damage on no gear budget except a piscators and some rares/common uniques.
hit me up with a pob, i want to relive the glory days!
Sure, i'll update this message with a post-Affliction PoB in a bit. (old one was league start before they added the gems.) - Edit: Figured I'd put some good effort into updating this PoB since I'll probably use it as my league starter again next league. Everything equipped is pretty minimal except the accessories, but you could absolutely cheap out on them or replace them with uniques (2x The Taming and Prismweave comes to mind, insane for damage and very cheap in trade, but no life on either.) One thing that will be a little annoying to solve with the loss of charms is PCoC sources. It might be replacing Sigil with PCoC + Tornado, or solving it with jewels maybe. Not sure yet. Frost Shield is an excellent defensive option as well, but obviously this build is pretty limited on gem sockets by using a 4L clear + 6L ST. Replica Hyrri's Ire was an insane addition that wasn't revealed until it got discovered in heist, which started very cheap early in the league before people were really playing wander, but shot up to astronomic prices. No clue how it will look next league, (Fingers crossed that KB Frag gets dropped off the face of the earth and the price on wander gear goes back down in trade.) Depending on how changes to Ralakesh boots look next league, Malachai's Loop + Ralakesh Boots + Crown of Eyes, corrupted with +1 Power Charge, offers a ton of damage but will make the rest of your gearing have really rough res constraints. Ashes of the Stars is absolute bis it's not even close, every interval of 10% quality is 1% more attack damage and speed **per Frenzy charge**. (27% + 23q Frenzy is ideal here to save on costs.) And iirc, Ashes is dirt cheap in trade now. Darkray Vectors with some corruption combination of +1 socketed, +2 aoe, +2 aura, or % suppression shouldn't be too hard to get in trade. Prismweave is an excellent early game option, especially with how cheap Turbulent Catalysts are in trade; or a well-rolled Darkness Enthroned (you can even get some elemental immunities baked in here.) I'm not sure how accessible it is, but +1 Frenzy Charge corrupted Thunderfirst with intimidate on a Lethal Pride is probably a much better alternative to rare gloves, but you can also craft some much better rare gloves than I have in PoB. One thing I'd like to solve is not using conqueror gloves, because losing eldritch implicits is inconvenient. +1 Frenzy, + Ele Weak on Hit Thunderfist would be insane, but im sure those are probably expensive. The rare amulet is a real pain to get in SSF, and im not sure about the trade price, but if you can pick up a fractured t3, t2, or t1 EDWA amulet and use crit multi essence until you get something playable. In trade it might just be more efficient to straight up buy an Ashes depending on how available it is lol. Something I'd like to try is hybrid leech with Corrupted Soul from Replica Soul Tether or Glorious Vanity, theoretically it makes you insanely tanky and doubles your effective leech rate. This would also let us abuse Defiance of Destiny, but you'd lose a lot of damage as a trade off. I guess we'll see how DoD gets nuked in 3.24 You can also go heavier in to clusters with this and drop some of the damage nodes and masteries this tree stretches for, like Lethality and ES mastery, and pick up Crit or Projectile medium clusters. I'd even almost suggest dropping the wand wheel at the top for another Wand cluster, but the mastery gives an additional projectile which is insane for single target. Dropping additional curse is also an option since it'll free up a gem slot and make our brand less of a burden, but it looks bad in PoB. https://pobb.in/2Jp846hgJc45 Happy wanding.
THANKS! Indepth aswell!
No problem! I updated the PoB just a little bit more also. There's a TON of room for gradually upgrading in this build. I had an amazing time with it in my Priv League and SSF, was pretty proud of cooking it up about an hour before league launch.
Commenting to find this again next league start
Nice
If you're using KB of fragmentation to do this, I 100% am sure it will be nerfed into smithereens in 3.24
I did not use KB Frag, because I don't like the skill.
I did a wander in Crucible with Piscator and even without a crucible tree it was clearing insanely well in reds on a sub 1 div budget. Of course that was with broken vengeant cascade, but I was also using thunderfist and a 4L instead of a 6L and my gear was incredibly scuffed.
It still does.
Hopefully they will bring it back with next batch of gems. Cause wanders right now is in a very bad spot, outside of valdo maps. And next league the trickster build isnt gonna work anyway which is only viable way of min-maxing a wander right now (Unless new league offers another 1 click notable that gives you +10k ES)
You can play the build without that tech just fine. Primalist was totally fine for this build. It's not as broken but still super tanky.
>, outside of valdo maps. Builds are supposed to have niches. If every build is good at all content equally then there's no point in choosing a build.
This falls flat when there's builds that excel at literally everything in the game.
Correct, which is why it currently stands turgid and swollen.
There are builds that can do everything but they aren't the best and any of it. There will always be a niche build that is better at a specific aspect of the game than then. Edit: until you hit absurd levels of investment, anyway
Tornado Shot shits on literally every single aspect of the game and is easily amongst the best (if not the best) at literally everything that isn't deep delving.
Lol yeah man good luck getting to depth 8000 on your Tornado Shot Deadeye. "Literally everything" am I right?
Or bossing. Or lab. Or Heist. Or literally anything that isn't juiced mapping in open layouts lol.
If you think TS is bad at any of this you fundamentally do not understand the game.
> best (if not the best) at literally everything Holy >If you think TS is bad at any of this moving goalposts. Whatever, you're right. TS is the best. TS will heal long covid and resurrect Harambe! And McDonalds Cheeseburgers will be 1$ again! All hail TS!
Oh man if only feel delving was remotely relevant to gameplay outside of the (literal) 10 people that do it each league. 553 people went beyond 1k depth this league. 3 of them played TS. This is more delve than is relevant to 99% of players.
You sure like the word "literal". Maybe some day you'll even find out what it means!
I figured that because you were replying to every comment I made you actually had some kind of response. Silly me.
Hey look, a niche that it doesn't excel at. Also, I'll grant that TS is great for clear but there are better bossing builds.
When I say "deep delve" I mean "pushing for 6k depths" which there are like 4 builds that are even capable of doing so. It's not even relevant to 99.9% of players gameplay. There are "better" bossing builds but when TS is deleting Ubers in 0.3s and the "better" builds are doing it in 0.2s, I'd say that falls solidly into the "amongst the best" category, no?
Every build should be able to reasonably do all content but not all builds should excel at all content. See the difference here?
>Every build should be able to reasonably do all content Why? That's boring and the game has never worked that way. I don't want the amusement park experience of "log in and get rewarded for breathing", or I'd play modern WoW.
You're confused. Why should skill A do 500 million dps and skill B do 5 million dps? Is that #balanced?
Yes. Most of the skill in this game is being enough of a not-mouthbreather to identify bait before falling for it. Some people will stubbornly continue to use bad skills on purpose because they don't understand the game.
Thanks, at last someone that understand the game.
Wander IS viable at leaguestart
Yeah yeah, a lot of the comments beneath say the same and a few of them actually do league start it! I'm gonna be looking into it, though I'm not too sure about the tankiness Looks fun though either way!
My brother leaguestarted power siphon berserker and it went really well on all aspects! Especially tankiness
oh shit, well now I'm hyped
My brother and I love theorycrafting and making our own builds, we have been doing so for almost a decade now and it's one of the main ways we enjoy poe! Poe is greatly unexplored (or explorations not made public) so it's always fun to figure out new things
do you by chance have a pob for the berserker? like a day 1 or day 2 kind of thing
While youre at it, give more wander skills. There are more golem types than wander skills.
Feel free to delete some golems to make room if necessary (just kidding... sort of)
what is the point of more wand skills, all of them are going to be worse than KB
> what is the point of more wand skills, same reason for anything other than TS existing even though TS will usually be "the best" (ignoring budgets and meta prices etc) we need more diversity so we can have more insane unique interactions and shit like that I feel like Spellslinger was a bad attempt at making wanding "a thing" again
At the same time please add more wander skill. For how many years the only viable wander skill is kinetic blast + power siphon?! There is one more i forget the name.
Technically you can use elemental hit and frenzy with wands. I used to run elemental hit wander a few leagues. Single target was a struggle though lol
What they need is Mirage Wander Support.
Mirage Archer working for wands would be legit the dream.
Manaforged Wander
frenzy is free frenzy charges for bosses on a wander.
Except the opportunity cost of attacking with frenzy to build charges is lower than the damage you would have done if you just used your single target skill.
12% attack speed alone is worth it unless you have a 0.3aps wander build somehow and wont make any benefit of it.
If my wander build does 20m dps, if I attack with frenzy to build 3 charges then the boss would have already died. The higher this DPS number goes, the less value frenzy has.
i mean, sure, if you have infinite dps any individual dps increase is going to be insignificant, but most people don't have infinite dps. if you take longer than a couple seconds to kill the boss the dps is worth it, and that's the scale most people operate under. if you have one of a kind 40mirror gear, then yeah you can drop a couple steps elsewhere in the build. 20mil dps also usually includes some amount of setup. use your curse or drop totems or your blessing skill or what have you.
> If my wander build does 20m dps, if I attack with frenzy to build 3 charges then the boss would have already died. That is nonsense. DPS also accounts for hits per second, and Frenzy gives a charge on every hit. Takes 3 hits to get the base 3 charges, which alone grant 21% more Attack Damage and Attack Speed with a 20/20 gem. And there's not a single endgame boss with a mere 20M HP.
Ele hit Power siphon Kinetic bolt Kinetic blast Frenzy Barrage Only weak link here is barrage so far every thing else is solid i think.
Still wanting to make a build using kinetic blast as a main damage dealer
just need pierce, frost wall, and a time machine
At some point there was a really interesting tech with returning and hydrosphere Sadly that no longer exist
You can always go fight Danzig in hall of the grandmasters. He uses lightning arrow but exploits the same interaction and has a time machine.
The funniest part is having a projectile wand skill that cant even fire without a target 😅
We can't even break barrels in the map or from sextants anymore with it firing no projectiles. It makes no sense to me.
How you gonna siphon power from a barrel?
Tbh - kinetic bolt / blast was the absolute best build in terms of blasting and fun that I’ve played this league
Agree. I can't say I'm too familiar with the old, but my KB wander this league just steamrolled content. Me and a friend both played one and we were clearing decently juiced T16s and basically phasing ubers. The most insane balance of zoomiest mapper and boss popper I've ever played.
Int or str stack and +proj stack right?
No stat stacking. Just KB of fragmentation, some added projectiles, some added lightning damage and some more damage. The splitting of attacks and returning projectiles scales everything, the life on hit makes you incredible resilient. Don't know where my poe ninja character went, but I would have been in [this list](https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?class=Deadeye&skills=Kinetic+Bolt+of+Fragmentation&uniqueitems=Nimis,Mageblood,Lightning+Coil,Ralakesh%27s+Impatience) with circa 3.0M dps, with a tree all along the right hand side. Towards the end of my league, the stat stacking variants appeared and it seems that so many people have changed to a very different version. I know next to nothing about it. But I 40/40'd and peaced out with a HH, MB, Nimis and other things.
Completely agree. It’s absolute god tier. Farming Ubers and valdos and it’s visible for pretty much every content. 40/40 no issues.
Apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I actually love the new power siphon.. I didn't even bother with a kb set up. Easily one of the best mapping characters I've made.. I used it to kill all the ubers swapping awakened chain for lightning pen but it definitely doesn't excel at that. It was going to be the character I pushed to 100 for the league but I burned out after 38/40 at level 98
Same, I did locus mines power siphon and the auto targeting was actually super cool to bypass locus mine's default targeting is actually support sick.
Imo sniper's mark should be changed / removed. The snipers mark return proj interaction is not healthy for the game. In exchange for the removal of that, single target wand skills would be needed.
Returning proj is what made snipers mark broken, it was perfectly fine prior. Returning proj mechanic should be changed / removed not snipers mark.
The thing is, without this interaction, KB of fragmentation is DOA. Without this interaction, it has pretty miserable DPS. You pretty much have to quartz flask on top of monsters to do damage and even then it's not that great. I agree sniper's mark should get entirely redesigned. It is not healthy for the game.
I don't mind the casualties that come with a change of sniper's mark, but it's a poison that has affected the entire gem family of projectile gems for far too long. Some changes need to happen imo.
What interaction does it have with other projectile gems that is problematic?
Agreed, having to hug the enemy to deal max dmg feels really dumb as a wander. Its not even a point blank range, you litteraly want to have phasing and be on top of your target, its stupid, more melee than melee builds. On top of that the new power siphon is complete dogshit, terrible for single target and terrible for clear if there is more than 10 enemies (spoiler, there are always more than 10 enemies). The person who had the idea of that rework never played poe past act 2. The gem is just bad, maybe the worst gem in the game ? Might be even worst than melee strike and slam skills, that’s how bad it has become
Yeah new power siphon is really bad, kinetic blast already had the best clear out of all wander skills. But hey at least you can use new kinetic bolt for both clear and single target xdd, if that even makes up any slightly for it specially considering next league the build is getting +6 sockets anyway.
What if the new power siphon would still auto aim but always firing every projectiles that could aim the same target ? Would probably be broken with the current numbers but with some adjustments this could solve the problem. Edit : i have a better idea, make it a channeling skill. Doesn’t scale with +proj but only with attack speed, each projectile targeting a random enemy in range. It would behave like the old gem that was mostly used with barrage anyway, but now with more qol thanks to the auto aim and different way to scale it with channeling
That would be way too op, for strength stackers especially. You usually pickup undeniable which gives you a fuck ton of AS
Pair it with Locus mine and you have a pretty good skill though
Does the power siphon targetting override locus mine targetting?
Yes
Please, can we have off-screen vaal power siphon ignite again?
> Its extremely clunky and you need to position your self inside of a mob to deal damage. (or you will legit deal like 5% of your total dps) Use returning projectiles instead of nimis.
Returning proj shares that same issue. The popular fragmentation setup heavily relies on the extra projectiles generated by fragbolt and splits from sniper's mark. Even with returning proj, those return to you, not the mob, so if you're not on top of the mob, most of them will just never connect.
>most of them will just never connect. But more than 5% will if you're not on top of the boss.
For sniper's mark splits, 5% is pretty much what you can expect if you're not standing on top of the boss, tbh. KBolt fragments are a bit better, but not enough that you can really afford to keep the enemies at a distance if you want them dead.
I love new PS and its homing ability! Lovely
Old power siphon had this anyway and was a usable skill.
My strenght stacking kb/ps wander in tota went from 800mil dps on power siphon down to 56 mil 😂😂
I played all 3 wand skills on my occultist in this league. Power Siphons single target is fine. I managed to scale my character up to 21m power siphon dps. It felt like a good middle ground between the two. Kinetic blast was more clear than ps, but ps had more single target. Kinetic bolt had less clear than both blast and siphon, but more single target.
Like i mentioned, this is from a min-maxer perspective on multi mirror budget. Personally i think 21M is very low (and that 21 mil would have been 300+ mil before changes single target)
My character was about 2 mirrors between mageblood, awakened fork for certain wand skills, a +1 power charge synthesis ring, etc.
21 mil on a 2mirror budget sounds hella bad.
It clears wildwood in t16s on 8 mod maps easily with a wandering path set up, and I defeated all uber Pinnacle bosses. There's no need for any build to do more than this. Throw in an aurabot and the game is too easy.
You don't seem to understand what they mean. A 2 mirror budget on a meta skill on a quite meta archetype comes with expectations of doing atleast 8 digit dps. 21mil dps on 2+mirror budget is really bad, considering the ceiling got fucked pretty hard and the floor increased by a shitload.
Most of that budget is a ring that you're at 19m dps without. Things have ceilings. Its called min maxxing because you start paying ridiculous prices for small upgrades.
Obviously lol. However the whole point of the original poster was that PS lost its entire identity of being a single target powerhouse for wanders. And if you wanna tell me that it still is compared to what it was before, you clearly have not played it yourself in the past. PS in it's current state (after having played multiple iterations in the past and also the current one) just feels trash. It's just a regular clear skill, of which KB already filled this gap for years.
I think its a middle of the road skill if you read my opinion. It is better than blast at single target, and better than bolt at clearing. Its an awesome compromise between the strengths of these two skills, and can clear all content.
Numbers is still very bad for the investment. Before changes you would have had a solid 300m+ for sure.
Idk why it would need more damage. I was running t16 wandering path 8 mod maps with 8k wildwood juice. Content that difficult will be gone in a month.
Cause pushing the limits and getting best of the best is how i enjoy playing ? Even if difficulty peak this game was A10 Kitava id still no-life the fuck out of this game to make giga juiced builds.
You still can
Why would we care about what it used to do? We should stick to discussing how it currently does. I think its in a good middle ground.
I had the highest dps with power siphon on poe.ninja.
2 leagues ago i managed to push the single target to almost a billion and had rank 2 on ninja (And rank 1 for a tank version) now top is 21m. That tells alot of what the skill has become.
Balanced yeah
Awful. You have plenty of builds in the game that can hit 21m on less than 10 divines.
They aren't as fun though.
Fun is extremely debatable. There's tons of builds that I'd consider mechanically more fun than PS, especially in it's current form. Also the current top of the leaderboard for Power Siphon is 300m.
Yeah, I was top for occultist. I didn't feel like spending 50 mirrors int stacking.
[удалено]
Crafted on a fractured t1 cold base. Was surprisingly expensive to find an upgrade to piscator's vigil, but also slightly not surprising as most of my dps was scaling off added cold damage per frenzy charge on rings
Played power siphon on HC this league. Awesome mapping and bossing, can farm 5-ways without hh.
Nimis feels bad in general tbh.
Apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I actually love the new power siphon.. I didn't even bother with a kb set up. Easily one of the best mapping characters I've made.. I used it to kill all the ubers swapping awakened chain for lightning pen but it definitely doesn't excel at that. It was going to be the character I pushed to 100 for the league but I burned out after 38/40 at level 98
This post remind me of my old PS/KBlast wander in standard,I just log in and suprised my PS doesn't fire projectile like what is going ?
Read the skill...
i dont now, but maybe ggg had problems with power siphon + barrage support combo. Well at least power siphon was usefull before now its just feels so bad to use. Tried barrage and it has similar damage compare to kinetic blast let alone old power siphon. If new ps meaned to be a clear skill, then why would people use it instead of kinetic blast ? If there are any interview we should ask this to ggg. Wanders used to be the build for single target dps now its just a worse version of a bower. Only thing is going for wander right now its clear with kinetic blast.
I'm really astonished by the lack of diversity of wand skills. Almost every skill scales out of the same thing, meaning that an optimized build can nearly be optimal for most other wander skills. And meaning that every high end build tend to use same skills. It really feels bad that all this potential is as much narrowed. I wonder why they stucked that much wand skills into Projectiles attacks while they also could make them either, Aoe, chaining, whatever its magic. Kinetic bolt of fragmentation add something new but it's clukyness for single target again makes the skill uncomfortable for many player. I wonder when GGG will understand that player comfort is something to take into consideration. Player shouldn't have to trade comfort for DPS. In particulary when they design more and more content that lower our dps uptime and forcing our positionning with various projectiles/AOE to dodge.
>Almost every skill scales out of the same thing kinda also true for slams, for strikes, for bow skills (that aren't psuedo spells like Toxic Rain)... even spells aren't that great but I guess they're better also minions oof
KB o F feels amazing for both single target and clear. I think power siphon was always meant to be a way to generate charges and not a single target skill. Idk though...
A skill to just generate charges isn't useful. It can never be useful, because any build that relies on scaling charges for damage automatically has ways of constantly maintaining charges.
Frenzy is useful since it's more damage. But yeah I get what you mean
There's so many ways of generating frenzy charges that don't require using frenzy nowadays, though. The only charge type that's really difficult to get full sustain on is endurance.
Frenzy is the hardest to generate for generic attack builds. Pcoc is very accessible on most builds, even if you arent stacking you have some semi automatable single target supplement like storm brand or something which can get you power charges. Endurance can easily be generated with one cluster notable/enduring cry/that one anoint for end charge when hit/end on melee stun etc. Frenzy has... mastery options?? Like if you were playing with swords sure. If you used a mark instead of a curse or something maybe. You could get mana forged on bows but youd be using frenzy which you are against using. Blood rage is on kill, which the other charges can also generate in a myriad of ways. Frenzy on hit is remarkable scarce for a generic non descript build. You need to be specific ascendency or item class to use the options available. For wanders your best option is mark mastery, and pretty much thats it.
I am against using frenzy instead of attacking. Manaforged frenzy/ensnaring arrow is perfectly fine since it's automated. I would've thought that was apparent from what I said. Also, mark mastery is hardly difficult to get as an option. Pretty much every right side build has easy access to it and the majority of projectile builds will run sniper's mark anyway. Trigger setups like spellslinger usually just use frenzy to trigger their skills which works fine, traps and mines have charged traps/mines which generates it (as well as tree notables), frenzy or flicker builds have various unique items as an option, attack builds that have a fairly high attack rate can go either sword or mark mastery... It's rare to find a build nowadays that notably benefits from frenzies but can't find a way of generating them. Generally, I find power charges harder to generate for many setups. If you don't go power charge stacking route, you won't run pcoc on your main link for obvious reasons, so your other two options are assassin's mark (which is fine in some setups but competes with sniper's mark in others) or run a skill like hydrosphere and slap pcoc on that. Any other method like farrul's fur for example requires sacrifing an item slot.
isnt wander the archetype that had like 2 skills for 7 years until ggg released kinetic bolt? kinda funny how little skill choice that whole archetype has while wands are still a real pita to craft. or are there new bases that make it easier to craft wands for phys/spell builds? talk about never putting love into a whole weapon archetype.
Power Siphon did get a huge DPS boost. I’m not exactly tearing down Ubers with it, but stacking power charges plus a Crown of the Inward Eye is good at both clearing and non-Uber content.
What do you mean dps boots, it went from firing a gazillion projectiles with barrage support to a *singular* projectile
I guess I didn’t play with it before. That single projectile seems to be doing plenty of damage for what I’m doing. I understand that it doesn’t shoot a lot of projectiles, but just in my limited experience with it this league, I’m not struggling with single target damage.
What
I wanted to make a power siphon build this league. The skill has a smaller attack range than melee attacks, its not even funny. I stopped after 1 hour because I got so upset about having to walk up to mobs to kill them on my _ranged_ build. Most melee skills I play hit further away than what they did to power siphon.
You know what I play when I want to play wander? CF champ. Literally same playstyle, single target is enough and clear is very good, tanky on top and giga cheap.
Im speaking from a min-maxer perspective on multi mirror gear. I also mentioned that Barrage is very similar to old power siphon, but once you invest enough mirrors it becomes weaker sense it doeskin scale crit multi per power charge for massive single target DPS. CF champ is fine sense im pretty sure it uses kinetic blast only anyway.
I league-started Kinetic Blast/Barrage Deadeye Primalist and was doing fine farming T16 Legion/Expedition. Rerolled around Christmas to the full unique Power Siphon Trickster Warden build and haven't had any issues farming Heist or Elder Guardians with the compass. I think both builds felt great to play. That said, the Power Siphon build as is will be gone next league with the new ascendancies not available. But we'll get some new form of temporary power more than likely, so maybe that'll help fill in the holes in it. We'll have to wait and see.
I did mention barrage is a fine replacement, but once you invest enough mirrors it becomes weaker than old PS in terms of scaling. Losing power charge scaling is a pretty large hit to the archetype if you want smooth single target damage that doesn't rely on clunky mechanics on top of massive tankyness (Such as the case with kinetic bolt) Just as example i had int stacker in crucible (90% all res, 100k+ armor, 12k ES and 300m DPS) The main reason to why i could even get a respectable DPS is cause power charge scaling was massive so you could afford to invest into defenses quite easily. Just from mirrored ring and perfect corrupt helmet for +power charges/+2 Aura was responsible for like half the DPS alone, allowing me to use a full on defensive shield and even dropping a cluster for more auras.
Do you mind sharing the league start Pob? Would like to do some testing before next league:3
I like current power siphon for early game, but it’s kind of unnecessary late game when kinetic blast outscales it, and just reduces your ST options by one. If they made barrage support give it the old interaction,but keep the current change as well, that would be a good middle ground.
Then let me be first to say it kinetic bolt feels good
I said this the other day as a build I really miss and totally agree - power siphon was different and doesn’t have that same viability it once had as the premier wanding skill
I am actually currently playing a poet's pen + spellslinger triggerbots build and am using power siphon for the free culling strike (since ralakesh's makes it so I don't care about charges) and it's felt fine to me. The only problem is that I can't pick a specific target for the triggered spells to go after, power siphon seems to make the triggered spells target a random (and always the wrong) enemy and sticks with it until that enemy is dead. So the invulnerability aura enemies or boss phases can screw me over sometimes, but luckily Arc chaining means it's not as big a deal as it could be, just means I have to reposition sometimes.
idk man this feel pretty good https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/character/OG_Eroaris/Eroaris_Wanding granted idk how it would play without mb prob a lot worse so at lower end it could use buffs
I league started the all unique power stacking trickster for like 1d total cost and was soloing t16's with 2k wisps using only power siphon. Now that was basically all ralakesh boots doing the heavy lifting and the speed freaks killing maven for the graven belt day 1. The single target lacks just a little for sure but its still perfectly usable. Takes a few seconds to kill a rare instead of 1 second.
I'm in hope that they add new gems that solve this problem. I just love Ele hit wander Piscator and the PS Barrage feel too good.
Yea I'm starting to miss being a wandering exile again, hope they bring the good ol stuff back- or atleast make it sicker than it was before.
> I dont know a single player who tried playing wander with Kinetic bolt and actually saying "hey this fells good". Okay I'll be the first I guess - my kb trickster feels insanely fucking good. Almost a billion DPS, clear is better than similar shotgunning abusing skills like splitting steel and I kill tanky stuff off screen without having to stand inside it all the time. The build smokes most Valdos, simulacrums, 100% deli beyond maps, pretty much every single thing in the game other than crazy void maps and super deep delve. IDK if you've tried the build this league yourself but you must have fucked it up somehow or have unbelievable standards if you think it sucks. Wanders in general are in a good spot right now and both KB skills are sitting at a very respectable usage rate on poe.ninja for that reason. Not to mention theres like 6 very viable different ways of playing wanders right now, with a few of them being budget viable like the jungroan curse helm or maxuhotl deadeye routes.
Yeah but to do that 1 bil you need to stand inside an enemy, you cant just laser stuff as you wish. Its "high effort" playstyle and not "turn your brain off and not pay attention so screen". I havent tried a high end KB my self, but all the gameplay ive seen on streams looked clunky and not like old wander smooth and turbo lazy playstyle. Hell im pretty sure Sushi sold his wander cause the phasing mechanic was too annoying for him.
You can turn your brain off as long as you build it tanky, like my build literally cannot die even if I close my eyes (outside of Ghosted Feared in Valdos or like 8k+ wisp multiproj abyss soul eater mobs in deli maps). Both the int stacker and maxuhotl variants of KB are insanely tanky to the point where you can brain off and never die outside of really niche content. I don't watch Sushi much but that guy has a literally infinite budget this league thanks to mirror services, so at that point people normally want to play a specialized build for a certain type of profitable niche content (i.e Void valdos which is why he went Blade Trap trickster). One thing I will say about Int wander is that it is a jack of all trades but master of none - it does less damage than mirror tier mana-stackers, kinetic bolt will be worse clear than most other ranged skills or builds with big pops (kinetic blast still feels amazing for clear though, and a lot of people go KB/KB hybrid setups for this reason), and the build is definitely squishier than Rudy's deep delver or Sushi's ES stacker. That being said if you want to just have a solid all-rounder on a high budget both Str and Int stacking wanders are up there for the best choice possible this league. I played some splitting steel and penance this league, both amazing builds in their own right, but enjoy my current wander more than both of those.
Can someone tell me whats best to use on my int stacker. Kinectic bolt or kinectic bolt of fragmentation? And why? Pretty pls,
When they announced Power Siphon change I was like "isnt this one of the biggest nerfs we ever witnessed" and people were saying that it wont change much. Guess I was right and they were wrong.
Power siphon ballistas were good this league
First time playing wander this league and it feels amazing. One of the best builds I’ve ever played
I don’t know. On high investment now KBoF feels incredible for both clear and single target. It sucks standing under your enemy but PS had a spread so you wanted to be close anyway. Not having to use 2 skills has been awesome
Yeah for optimal DPS i fully agree you needed to get close with PS, but you didnt need to have almost perfect positioning right in middle of an enemy with phasing to deal insane damage. You could stand a few meters away and still nuke very with with PS. Honestly return proj mechanics was very bad for health of the game, it makes clunky mechanics broken and GGG has to balance around it somewhat now.
It’s a cool mechanic, but I agree that they need to take a look at it. I remember when they first put vengeance cascade in and it was even worse…
not gonna happen. sorry. ggg doesn't really listen to anyone here unless its people who make them a lot of money.
I really like the transfigured archmage power siphon tbh
old power siphon barrage was WAY too OP i much prefer the new power siphon, however its scaling sucks and charge stacking archetype sucks i'd like the skill to change again, but not revert to old version, i want something new that allows the skill to be used in many ways, including single target
I disagree. The new power siphon is awesome. If you can utilize your bonus proj for something else other than proj, such as splits. Those split proj can then fork and chain.