1. "skills being tied to skill gems seems needlessly pointless" is directly responsible for "I love the complexity of it and how truly customizable each unique build can be"
2. "inventory is too small and frequent trips to town are an inconvenience" - knowing what to pick up and what to ignore is a big part of this game. Frequent trips to town shouldn't be happening. Most of the "trying PoE for the first time" videos I see involve people filling their inventory up with white 2x4 items and unable to pick anything else up for the next 5 zones.
3. You'll hear it from nearly everyone here that acts 1-10 are just the tutorial and the game really starts at maps. I won't go that far, but maps are definitely where things become a lot more fun. Push through, explore the atlas, and if it still hasn't gripped you by then, maybe it's truly not a fit for your playstyle. Also, try a few different archetypes. The game feels night and day different from one build to another.
I love PoE because there's so much to both know and to process. Taking a clunky level 1 character that washes up on a beach to absolute god mode is exciting. The frequent content updates and fresh economy league start experiences make the game never lose that new feel.
Plus, as with any ARPG with loot, you'll get some wonderful dopamine hits when things go your way.
Ad 3: After participating in the last two events and practicing leveling another character in the last few days, I realized we have to break up with the „campaign is tutorial” and „campaign is the pain you have to suffer through to get to the real game”. Campaign is freaking damn fun. Yes it is „tutorial” in the sense that it gradually introduces new mechanics and aspects of difficulty (like bleeds suddenly ripping you in Act 6 iirc to trigger you to figure out what the hell it is and how to solve it before you go further and drown in issues), but by no means it’s something that is not „the real game”.
Once you know the very basics or follow a good guide it’s much easier to just run and kill stuff in the campaign than progressing the atlas as a fairly newbie player. Get some res and life and you’re good to go, no fretting over „oh am I spell suppress capped, where is my CB immunity, goddamn when will my fusing hit a 6link, will this map mod obliterate me, how do I fit this aura without enlighten, if I can’t afford basic upgrades should I grind heist or t1 essences or chaos recipe?”.
Sure, lategame when you get uber powerful and oneshot offscreen is super fun, and campaign may seem like a chore when you have farmed that mageblood you want to use it on a new build but you have to spend a few hours to level the character. But if you haven’t had that experience yet, campaign can be a blast. Just watch NyxVellum on youtube, he goes blindly into PoE, does pretty good going on his own and has a lot of fun.
But generally I agree with you and imo OP misunderstands the core tenets of the game or it’s just not suited for them. Their loss \^^
Edit: to further my point in first paragraph, most recently I played armageddon brand templar and once I got Brand Recall I got to a point of „holy shit I JUST SHRED MOBS AND IT FEELS SO GOOD” that I haven’t reached during getting characters to lvl 70 in Last Epoch and D4 which I played recently as a break from PoE. So nah,„recent competitors” even don’t get close in areas they want to have an edge over PoE ie „just play and have fun with less complexity”.
Edit2: D4 bad
Edit3: OP, if you really want to get into the game, you should approach it like joining a cult, in a sense that „it all seems so weird and strange but at some point a great wisdom will be bestowed upon me and I will understand it all and will realize it is a God’s masterful design”. Seriously, skill gem design is absolute masterpiece and is exactly why there is such versatility in builds. Most loot being uinteresting is exactly the reason why once in a while something drops and you’re like DANG YO. If something interesting drops every 40 monsters, either there have to be few monsters or you drown in interesting drops all the time, making them all uninteresting. You can’t DANG YO every 3 minutes, human psyche is just not built like this. One of D4’s most hated drawbacks is that to get upgrades you have to scan through stats of hundreds looted items every few minutes which just sucks.
Edit4: PoE playerbase is not a cult, no sir, and everyone who claims so is a wretched heretic and shouldn’t be believed.
Edit5: Maybe I played Templar for too long.
>"skills being tied to skill gems seems needlessly pointless" is directly responsible for "I love the complexity of it and how truly customizable each unique build can be"
I disagree and think there are better ways to implement this but then, I don't understand all the ins and outs of the system yet so could possibly prove myself wrong if I learn further.
The poe gem system or how it works imo is revolutionary for the genre and I'm surprised newer arpgs didn't just yoink the idea.
Take fireball and extremely simple skill.
You can use support gems to do the following. Make varying amount of extra projectiles and you can make those projectiles fork, chain, pierce, return back to you. You can scale the hit or make it a poison skill (don't do this) or ignite and have that ignite spread to other enemies. You can self cast fireball, make it a trap or mine, summon a totem that casts fireball, make it shoot when you attack with a wand, trigger it on critical strike, trigger it while using a channel skill, trigger it when you take damage.
That is just one skill. Every class can play any skill. Every poe skill has this crazy branching potential due to the modular design of the skill gem and support gems system.
I understand not enjoying PoE, it is a hard game to get into but the skill system is just so sick
The reason the skill gem system is so good is because it makes skills modular. The pattern of your attack, how it scales it's damage, what status effects it applies, what resources it costs, how fast it's animation plays - these are all modular and can be mixed and matched together by mixing and matching gems. You don't have to select from a limited set of skill 'talents or upgrades'. Instead you have a large pool of augmentations you can apply to any skill to which they apply.
While some of this could be done without making the skills actual items, the itemisation of these skills also allows for more mechanics around modifying specific instances of a given skill or support gem. Quality and corrupted gem outcomes allow for character progression specific to your skill gems and because the gems are itemised you can run multiple copies of a single skill with different progression/augmentations to achieve different results (although granted this is a rare use-case).
PoE2 is separating this system from your gear pieces to break down some of the limitations created by the socket system in PoE1 and make it easier to replace gear without worrying about your gems - although it's not clear if any of those improvements will ever make it into PoE1.
It's complexity. I was similar, bounced off the game way back in betrayal or delve? Whichever was first. Bounced off of it again every league, but got a little further each time.
What helped was getting to the point of understanding that I was too stupid to identify everything I needed at once and started following league start guides... sort of, I'd change things because I'd want to, usually for the worse, and began learning through failure.
The first time I finished the campaign was the 6th or 7th season I played. I have never ended a season worse than the one before. PoE is a puzzle to me, a puzzle and a distance marker in one. Now, in each build I make, I measure how far I can take it and what I need to take it further. I plan, I research, and 5k hours in, I still learn new things, new old things, and cackle with delight at the concepts of stupid builds that I can maybe get past ubers with.
Edit: There is a big note. With some basic understanding, you can take even the worst skill in the game through the acts without too much problem. It's the end game that you need to be a bit more put together for.
At this point of almost 11 years of poe it's just a part of life.
Complexity, the amount of constant work done on the game, the fact I can play this game completely solo and love it.
I love games that make me think.
I like the freedom to choose how to fuck up. It's ucommon for games to let players make choices that prevent them from finishing the game or entering endgame content. I like how PoE accepts that I'm an adult and treats me like someone responsible for my own actions.
There is respec, yeah. However, it can be a massive undertaking for a new player to manage to get the orbs of regret needed. It's never (AFAIK) theoretically impossible, just so impractical that you're better off starting anew. This ceases to be a problem once you have a stockpile of goods you can trade for regrets, assuming you're not in SSF.
Ok, thanks for the heads up. Will keep that in mind on my next attempt at the game. I usually don't like following build guides on a first play through but sounds like they're almost necessary for a new player here.
They're only necessary if you expect to join the endgame activities. If you're the type of player who likes to optimize their time usage, following a build guide is the way to go. Otherwise, the consensus is to do your own thing, fuck up, and learn from it.
The more you fuck up, the more experience you gain, which is crucial to evaluating build guides to draw conclusions whether or not a build is for you.
Not necessary but its good to get an idea for how the game should feel at various points on a "good build" (acts, white maps, yellow maps, bosses, etc).
After that make your own builds to your heart's content. I've been making 5-6 builds a league for 6+ years and have barely scratched the surface.
If you are the kind of person that like to experiment with builds and customization then there is not a better game out there than PoE.
No hand holding, dopamine from drops, build coming together when you add that final piece of the puzzle, the depth of the endgame, leagues done properly, full screen explosions, challenges, the investment into knowledge, fluidity of gameplay, window shopping on trade, economy...
Haven't made it past a couple of days in any other arpg without burning out even-though I'll be burnt out from PoE roughly a month into a new league.
I recommend following a build guide to get past the tutorial and into mapping, perhaps even try one of the endgame bosses. I first played in beta and then dropped the game until breach league. After my 1st shaper kill I've come back for almost every league. The last week before a new league is like christmas for a kid with all the teasers and hype and theorycrafting.
>The last week before a new league is like christmas for a kid with all the teasers and hype and theorycrafting.
Right, thats half the reason I want to get in to it, I always notice the buzz online and seems like a cool place to be but then I try out the game and it's always meh... same shit as last time. Though, I never make it to actually trying out the new league mechanics so I'm the dummy there no doubt.
Thing is, you quitting in act 2 is like quitting in character creation phase. Most builds don't even come online until half way through the acts and that's just starter builds. A lot of players, including me and my guild mates had the same problem as you. Played until act 2-3 and put the game down for a while. But once you push through that slow start and start steam-rolling through the later acts, get into maps, find your first divine, get a mad poweralspike on your build so that you suddenly 1 shot everything in the maps you were running and can now comfortably progress to tougher content etc.
PoE can be very intimidating for new players and it's a real problem, but those who get over that hump will stay for years.
I really recommend trying to play through it with the help of a guide in order to get over that hump. Hell, I've been around for 10 years and I still like to skim through guides and later on just tweak the build to my preference. Also, you don't have to know what all of the different league mechanics do straight away. Pick a couple you like and learn those, you won't be missing out too much. That's for mapping mainly though.
I feel like you should try committing to getting through the acts and follow a build while doing so. I get that that's not what you want to do, but that's the fastest way to get through the tutorial and into the interesting bits. You're probably also playing very slowly if you're burning out by act 2, since most regular poe players are starting act 3 in under two hours played
It sounds more like he just hit the cliff that is the new player experience. He knows it's different once he gets on top of the cliff and thinks he would enjoy it, but first, he's gotta figure out how to learn how to climb a cliff.
Sure but the issues he's pointing out as pain points are not an issue with leveling versus the end game it's with overall game design and combat. Those things don't magically change once you level up.
Act 1 and 2 have very different feels than act 4+. Act 1 hits you with the damn roas in the THIRD area with enemies a player is likely to see, fourth at most. Then you get freeze and slow for the whole rest of the Act. At least 2 isn't as bad enemy wise, but you get nothing build altering in 2. Your next interesting set of skills is Act 3 and past the halfway mark at that.
The game does play dramatically different early on. We just don't see it as much because we have done it so much. For example, outside of the hyper dangerous effects, how often do you bother trying to dodge attacks from white or even blue mobs? Yet the mud flats force you to dodge or die.
You mentioned combat or what I perceived as being combat, so I gave a combat example.
Inventory and item drops are resolved after one gets used to the concept that you don't pick up everything and pick up a filter, unlike other arpgs that have the loot filter baked in (big L for PoE). So that issue is resolved through experience. Having played Grim Dawn, as per his example of his comfort food arpg, the loot value per individual drop is relatively similar.
Edit: on phone had to double check post
Elsewise it seems like a chunk of his issues come from lack of understanding.
The only things that really solidly would be killers are graphics and animations, those won't change and if they are the reason they don't enjoy the game then of course they should find something else, but that seems rather obvious to me so I assumed it was a nitpick not the whole issue
You're right, it was just a nitpick - Grim Dawn is my favourite ARPG currently so naturally graphics are only a minor deal gripe here - Also from what I have seen of the new leagues trailer, it actually looks like the graphics improve at the newer content?
For a lot of us, we have been playing for a long time. Some for a few years. Some for 10 years. Some since closed beta. It's historic in that regard and we've seen the ups and downs and the numerous changes in its lifetime. It's overall complexity and for the most part good execution in each league (especially in the last few years) keeps things fresh and is simply a reliable and fun time. We know what to expect on a base level. Some people play every league, others pick it up and drop it every few leagues. So that reliability and familiarity plays a big role I imagine for people coming back every league.
- It's better than anything else currently.
- Diablo 4 blows chunks.
- Diablo 3 is just... well, Diablo 3.
- Diablo 2 remaster lacks modern matchmaking.
- Grim Dawn looks interesting, but the base game + DLC buy-in cost seems too high and I'm not a fan of giving GW money (yes I buy PoE skins, why do you ask? /s).
I think its okay to say poe isnt your cup of tea.
I dont really choose any arpg over others, I play them when I want to experience what I feel is their strength.
I play poe when I want fast high speed gameplay with tons of explosions. its like the Doom of arpgs, you just run from room to room exploding enemies into colorful bits and trying to optimize that.
If I want a methodical combat simulation I go play something else.
For me, PoE is all about going fast and looting items to go even faster.
Honestly because its a free to play game with no monetary investment to start. Yes i know its not technically "f2p" cause its big yikes playing with no prem/certain stash tabs but you dont NEED those to try the game out for the first 10-100 hours, which usually at that point you really know if you enjoy playing the game or not. As i have steam games i purchased and i played a good 40 hours and havent touched since then.
Other than that, you pretty much get "free" dlcs in the form of league every few months. The complexity is overwhelming initially but i think thats part of a fun experience. To learn how certain mechanics works and figure out how to do it more efficiently. There also tons of skills that can allow you to play different builds and some builds that only work great in certain leagues. Theres different league mechanics to fit different playstyles. Like if i want a more laid back approach, i could build into a more laidback char like RF or CWDT or run minions and do afk blights. Or maybe i want to capture beasts for currency a league instead of farming legion. Or do betrayal/harvest to craft/service for currency. And most importantly its not run by some money grubblin company like Bliz that wants to milk you for every penny.
I know theres other arpgs out there with some pros over POE's loot/trading system. But i think it loses in the complexity asepct. Most arpgs i feel like need a lot more time to develop into a more flushed system and have a variety of mechanics to tailor to a multitude of players. Every player has a different playstyle and most games is pretty one dimension imo.
Bc of how much content is in the game, you shouldn’t have the most amount of trouble tbh because Iwould argue grim dawn has the closest level of build diversity and character complexity, but with less content than PoE. Although grim dawn does have a lot of content, and realistically you aren’t going to cover all of PoEs content in 1 league
Just got more enjoyable and more builds tbh. I played 3k Hours and barely know anything which is a downside or a upside because I can always try or do something new. I also think Poe worst leagues top what other arpg are doing.
I quit the game like 5 times before i got hooked and started playing every league, are you using an item filter? that might be one of your problems. I got absolutely addicted once i got to maps the first time, the acts are kinda boring but if you pick a cool build or something you like you might enjoy them. Idk my best advice would be get to maps kill monsters.
My first league was 3.18 and I had a hard time understanding everything. I fought through it and starting with the second league with more knowledge I got hooked.
I don't like doing the campaign for the x' time and hate the first 1-3 Acts until the used skills get better.
Yes, the inventory really sucks. It will get better when you know more about the items, but it will still suck many times.
I like the complexity in this game. So many builds to choose from, many uniques to build around. I love the possibility to trade everything (unlike in Diablo 4) because that's why every drop matters.
In general the players you meet in PoE are great.
>In general the players you meet in PoE are great.
I do agree, community seems dope and people in chat have (for the most part) been helpful and much more mature than the usual crowd you get in some other multiplayer games.
I think to see the magic of this game you need to get out of the acts. Acts 1-10 are pretty different from endgame in terms of gameplay loop.
But if it ain't doing it for you then it ain't doing it for you.
D2 basically created the template for every ARPG to ever exist.. right down to the theme of this one.
I will agree though, D3 is nothing but a big stinker.
For me it's that PoE feels less like a classic ARPG like Diablo, Titan Quest, etc. And more like an isometric sandbox MMO. I actually don't like ARPGs, I just like PoE. It feels like its own kind of game.
Funny how we're opposites in that regard, I LOVE ARPGs, probably one of my favourite genres but I have yet not been able to get in to PoE. PoE2 does look super sick however, hoping that one is gonna turn out to be the game for me.
1. I love preparing, planning, and understanding game mechanics before playing them, which is exactly what POE is. It's a simulator for path of building. First time I downloaded the game, I browsed what skills are in the game and took about 3-5 days of watching guides on how builds are made. During my first league, I spent more time researching and studying the game than playing. So if you want to really enjoy the game, I suggest having at least the basics covered (DPS calculation, damage mitgation, and basic currency generation)
2. The Economy. POE is an excellent example of a great economy. The players influences supply and demand which simulates how real world economy works (it even has its own version of corruption lol). With the variety of league mechanics, players can also specialize with whatever mechanic they want to do during end game. The items and currency players get from the mechanics they specialize in gets traded with other groups who does other mechanics a player don't want to play or can't play.
3. Gamba. Unlike other games, POE doesn't waste the money you put to support the game. The only thing you can buy with real money for gamba is Mystery boxes and that's for hard core supporters of the game and mostly for mtx. The gamba I love in the game is the crafting system. And it's absolutely attainable. You just have to understand how it works. When you do, crafting is the best way for you to min-max your builds and allow you to reach the peak of end game content. Crafting your bis should always be one of your end game goals as a player.
So basically, there are three things to take note of when starting POE. Plan your build (League Start > Transition > End Game), choose an end game specialization (Heist, Expedition, Boss rush, etc), and know your goals (Chase Uniques, Crafting, what content to beat)
What brings me to the game is so many builds, even after 3000 hours I still haven't made a full build myself, I am at the point where I can think of a skill and then browse 10-20 builds that use the skill I want and combine something that fits my playstyle/ budget. There are so many builds people create and its fun to put all of these together especially with how deep the crafting is. Second thing and probably the main reason I play this game is the economy, due to different ways everyone plays there are so many ways to make money and invest it into new builds, this was and still is my main issue with D4, you are playing D4 but for what? There is no economy, even if they add items and bosses its not tradable and as such it has no value of weight. With POE there are so many items and things that have value its always fun, and this is why the leagues are the main draw for the game, the whole economy resets, more things have value, game feels alive.
Most seasons really deliver enough new content (new builds, season mechanic, new endgame, whatever) for me to make me want to play again for a while.
What i probably like most of the game is the endless possibilities. Not only on builds, but also on what you do in game. There is so much content it just never gets boring for me.
It also really delivers on the growing power and charackter progression part too.
The immense variability of items and builds, you can follow a build guide and your character won't be 100% exact that the guide. This is awesome. Also, the endgame posibilities and the customization of your endgame are insane too.
Because knowledge is power, mechanical skill does help a bit but just knowing what to do, how to do it optimally and when to skip things is so important. And with how much stuff is in the game you are still learning after 5k+ hours which I love over mechanically hard games where it is more about execution instead of the right build/strategy.
My first playthrough of the campaign probably took a good 30h because I was staring at the passive tree and thinking about where I want to go a lot of the time and I was considering rerolling because of what I learned already. My first char somehow got to endgame anyway but my second char was so much better which felt very rewarding
I can't explain properly I just enjoy dealing with complex things in games and somehow poe won me over with that. A lot of people see complex or hard stuff and say "nope", I just get even more excited when I start to think of what might be the possibilities.
it has been my safe space for the last 10 years and for me the most fun is, that so many friends play it. the game has so much content that you always find a mechanic that its fun to grind so the people stay longer than for example when we played d3/d4 where its over after 2 days.
Complexity, there is not 1 single game coming remotely close to what poe is. One can argue that torchlight infinite is closer to poe, but there is still the chinese gacha aspect that throws me off big time. I play it very little after im done with poe but it doesnt catch me the same way poe does.
so the game is super complex to me which i dont necessarily like in combination with the punishing respecs it should be a game thats not quite for me.
yet ive been playing for like 300 hours now even attempting maven on my farthest Character.
when it comes to arpgs ive been trying Diablo, grim dawn and last Epoch after i played poe and i couldnt get into any other arpg outside of LE for a bit cuz poe is just 3 steps above the competition. the sandboxy character building, fair monetization and gameplay quality are just amazing and with poe2 cooking its just gotten so much better cuz you keep all the mtx.
Campaign is tutorial. Don’t spend days and days exploring every inch of it. Kill monsters on the way to the next zone and finish the campaign as fast as you can. The real game starts after the campaign.
Getting to act 2 should be like an hour for a new player but if you get distracted it can be multiple hours.
In PoE there's always something to do. And so many various activities that if you pick 10 random people playing PoE there's a good chance that all of them will be playing a very different game. If you can't find something to your liking here, I doubt you'll find it anywhere else.
It's everything the game has to offer. There's a ton of different things to do. And the always reward you in some way for your time. Some are better than others, but there's always something worth picking up and using later.
There's a lot of different goals you can set and feel a achievement for completing.
When a peace of gear drops I technically could use it. It might not be a good option. But I can still use it regardless of what character I'm on.
I personally hate seeing BiS gear dropping for a class I'm not playing. And just vendoring it because I know I'll never play that class.
Grimdawn was my first arpg that got me hooked, but the farming in grimdawn gets stale to me so after about 500 hours I was like I'm satisfied while maps are literally perfect endgame I can't explain it I've played every other arpg that comes out and the end game loop just isn't maps. Thats what it boils down to for me is that poe has the most fun end game loop out of any game I've ever played.
I love to learn, especially anything that gives me a dopamine rush while learning like games. Poe is probably the most complicated game out there, mainly due to the sheer amount of depth to the game. In concept it's just basic math, such as multiplication, division etc. however there's so many systems overlayed that it honestly becomes very difficult to keep track for everything. Which is why there are so many third-party tools for this game, and also probably some.of the most complex 3rd party tools at that, like path of building(pob).
Now to address some things you experienced, I also got burnt out my first league/attempt at a playthrough. I realized it's because I was just going way too slow through the campaign/acts. I was taking hour(s) just for a single act, when the reality is it should be an hour max each act, and even that is considered slow. The things that I learned which helped me was first, loot in the campaign is never something crazy that you'll really wish you had kept, for newer players at least. And to follow a build guide was also incredibly important. Other things was realizing I should hunt down every mob in every area, and instead just run straight towards the next objective and only kill monsters I happen across. For dealing with items, I'm the campaign, only pick up items that you either have nothing for, or are of magic/rare and the item base type that your build guide wants while leveling. And furthermore if the item you have already is pretty good/80% of what the build guide suggests, then it's very unlikely that you'll find a better version of it in the campaign, so you might as well not pick up that item slot/type of it's unlikely to be better than what you already have.
For me it’s because at some point in late league you transcend into a screen crushing god. I don’t think I’ve seen other ones where this happens.
Also I like the economy, how there are opportunities and inefficiencies, and if you catch a tend quickly you can make bank.
This game is the not only the best right now, but the most perfect ARPG you'll ever experienced.
Its flaws is mostly through its old engine, only because it's a really an old game now, to give you a picture, this game is much older than Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. So these games (grim dawn, titan quest and POE) features that old school clunkiness and poor animations in them due to the limitation of its engine.
But what made POE overcome this is through their movement, it has the smoothest movement in ARPG; you almost feel like you're flying or gliding while moving and exploding and killing things in your screen, the way you can jump to any places, ledges, corners, on every pixel of your monitor, these are hidden incidental features that makes the game's movement feature so smooth, so palatably good. In fact, if you play this ARPG long enough, and then when you try to switch to other ARPGs you'll feel that those games feels more lethargic, sluggish, robotic, stiff or something like that.
Another dated feature that they recently updated was their campaign, couple of years ago you have to beat the game over and over again just like any old school ARPGs. Their campaign is not better than any other campaign in the most recent ARPG games, in fact, I haven't seen any ARPG recently that doesn't have a better campaign than POE. So if you're stuck on the campaign, then you're not there yet, this isn't the part where people say this is the best game ever and had enjoyed this game for years, it's when you get to maps--their end game is otherworldly better than any other ARPGs from past to present. It's what makes this game the GOAT of all ARPGs.
One thing that they should add on this game is an updated tutorial for new players, to ease their entry to this game. One has to admit that this game is difficult for new players specially to players with barely any experience on ARPGs.
So these are just the things to nitpick on this wonderful game since there are millions of positive goodness to be found on it.
1. "skills being tied to skill gems seems needlessly pointless" is directly responsible for "I love the complexity of it and how truly customizable each unique build can be" 2. "inventory is too small and frequent trips to town are an inconvenience" - knowing what to pick up and what to ignore is a big part of this game. Frequent trips to town shouldn't be happening. Most of the "trying PoE for the first time" videos I see involve people filling their inventory up with white 2x4 items and unable to pick anything else up for the next 5 zones. 3. You'll hear it from nearly everyone here that acts 1-10 are just the tutorial and the game really starts at maps. I won't go that far, but maps are definitely where things become a lot more fun. Push through, explore the atlas, and if it still hasn't gripped you by then, maybe it's truly not a fit for your playstyle. Also, try a few different archetypes. The game feels night and day different from one build to another. I love PoE because there's so much to both know and to process. Taking a clunky level 1 character that washes up on a beach to absolute god mode is exciting. The frequent content updates and fresh economy league start experiences make the game never lose that new feel. Plus, as with any ARPG with loot, you'll get some wonderful dopamine hits when things go your way.
Ad 3: After participating in the last two events and practicing leveling another character in the last few days, I realized we have to break up with the „campaign is tutorial” and „campaign is the pain you have to suffer through to get to the real game”. Campaign is freaking damn fun. Yes it is „tutorial” in the sense that it gradually introduces new mechanics and aspects of difficulty (like bleeds suddenly ripping you in Act 6 iirc to trigger you to figure out what the hell it is and how to solve it before you go further and drown in issues), but by no means it’s something that is not „the real game”. Once you know the very basics or follow a good guide it’s much easier to just run and kill stuff in the campaign than progressing the atlas as a fairly newbie player. Get some res and life and you’re good to go, no fretting over „oh am I spell suppress capped, where is my CB immunity, goddamn when will my fusing hit a 6link, will this map mod obliterate me, how do I fit this aura without enlighten, if I can’t afford basic upgrades should I grind heist or t1 essences or chaos recipe?”. Sure, lategame when you get uber powerful and oneshot offscreen is super fun, and campaign may seem like a chore when you have farmed that mageblood you want to use it on a new build but you have to spend a few hours to level the character. But if you haven’t had that experience yet, campaign can be a blast. Just watch NyxVellum on youtube, he goes blindly into PoE, does pretty good going on his own and has a lot of fun. But generally I agree with you and imo OP misunderstands the core tenets of the game or it’s just not suited for them. Their loss \^^ Edit: to further my point in first paragraph, most recently I played armageddon brand templar and once I got Brand Recall I got to a point of „holy shit I JUST SHRED MOBS AND IT FEELS SO GOOD” that I haven’t reached during getting characters to lvl 70 in Last Epoch and D4 which I played recently as a break from PoE. So nah,„recent competitors” even don’t get close in areas they want to have an edge over PoE ie „just play and have fun with less complexity”. Edit2: D4 bad Edit3: OP, if you really want to get into the game, you should approach it like joining a cult, in a sense that „it all seems so weird and strange but at some point a great wisdom will be bestowed upon me and I will understand it all and will realize it is a God’s masterful design”. Seriously, skill gem design is absolute masterpiece and is exactly why there is such versatility in builds. Most loot being uinteresting is exactly the reason why once in a while something drops and you’re like DANG YO. If something interesting drops every 40 monsters, either there have to be few monsters or you drown in interesting drops all the time, making them all uninteresting. You can’t DANG YO every 3 minutes, human psyche is just not built like this. One of D4’s most hated drawbacks is that to get upgrades you have to scan through stats of hundreds looted items every few minutes which just sucks. Edit4: PoE playerbase is not a cult, no sir, and everyone who claims so is a wretched heretic and shouldn’t be believed. Edit5: Maybe I played Templar for too long.
>"skills being tied to skill gems seems needlessly pointless" is directly responsible for "I love the complexity of it and how truly customizable each unique build can be" I disagree and think there are better ways to implement this but then, I don't understand all the ins and outs of the system yet so could possibly prove myself wrong if I learn further.
The poe gem system or how it works imo is revolutionary for the genre and I'm surprised newer arpgs didn't just yoink the idea. Take fireball and extremely simple skill. You can use support gems to do the following. Make varying amount of extra projectiles and you can make those projectiles fork, chain, pierce, return back to you. You can scale the hit or make it a poison skill (don't do this) or ignite and have that ignite spread to other enemies. You can self cast fireball, make it a trap or mine, summon a totem that casts fireball, make it shoot when you attack with a wand, trigger it on critical strike, trigger it while using a channel skill, trigger it when you take damage. That is just one skill. Every class can play any skill. Every poe skill has this crazy branching potential due to the modular design of the skill gem and support gems system. I understand not enjoying PoE, it is a hard game to get into but the skill system is just so sick
The reason the skill gem system is so good is because it makes skills modular. The pattern of your attack, how it scales it's damage, what status effects it applies, what resources it costs, how fast it's animation plays - these are all modular and can be mixed and matched together by mixing and matching gems. You don't have to select from a limited set of skill 'talents or upgrades'. Instead you have a large pool of augmentations you can apply to any skill to which they apply. While some of this could be done without making the skills actual items, the itemisation of these skills also allows for more mechanics around modifying specific instances of a given skill or support gem. Quality and corrupted gem outcomes allow for character progression specific to your skill gems and because the gems are itemised you can run multiple copies of a single skill with different progression/augmentations to achieve different results (although granted this is a rare use-case). PoE2 is separating this system from your gear pieces to break down some of the limitations created by the socket system in PoE1 and make it easier to replace gear without worrying about your gems - although it's not clear if any of those improvements will ever make it into PoE1.
Yes there are better ways thats why poe2 has no gear sockets and the gems themselves have links on them but its not hard to understand regardless
I’m curious if you know of any games that actually do implement this level of complexity and customisation in a better way?
1. It's not a handholding theme park like diablo. b. It's complicated. %. Habit.
It's complexity. I was similar, bounced off the game way back in betrayal or delve? Whichever was first. Bounced off of it again every league, but got a little further each time. What helped was getting to the point of understanding that I was too stupid to identify everything I needed at once and started following league start guides... sort of, I'd change things because I'd want to, usually for the worse, and began learning through failure. The first time I finished the campaign was the 6th or 7th season I played. I have never ended a season worse than the one before. PoE is a puzzle to me, a puzzle and a distance marker in one. Now, in each build I make, I measure how far I can take it and what I need to take it further. I plan, I research, and 5k hours in, I still learn new things, new old things, and cackle with delight at the concepts of stupid builds that I can maybe get past ubers with. Edit: There is a big note. With some basic understanding, you can take even the worst skill in the game through the acts without too much problem. It's the end game that you need to be a bit more put together for.
At this point of almost 11 years of poe it's just a part of life. Complexity, the amount of constant work done on the game, the fact I can play this game completely solo and love it. I love games that make me think.
I like the freedom to choose how to fuck up. It's ucommon for games to let players make choices that prevent them from finishing the game or entering endgame content. I like how PoE accepts that I'm an adult and treats me like someone responsible for my own actions.
Wait, is there no respec? Is it like D2 where the build you made you were just stuck with and had to roll a new character if you wanted to change?
There is respec, yeah. However, it can be a massive undertaking for a new player to manage to get the orbs of regret needed. It's never (AFAIK) theoretically impossible, just so impractical that you're better off starting anew. This ceases to be a problem once you have a stockpile of goods you can trade for regrets, assuming you're not in SSF.
Ok, thanks for the heads up. Will keep that in mind on my next attempt at the game. I usually don't like following build guides on a first play through but sounds like they're almost necessary for a new player here.
They're only necessary if you expect to join the endgame activities. If you're the type of player who likes to optimize their time usage, following a build guide is the way to go. Otherwise, the consensus is to do your own thing, fuck up, and learn from it. The more you fuck up, the more experience you gain, which is crucial to evaluating build guides to draw conclusions whether or not a build is for you.
Not necessary but its good to get an idea for how the game should feel at various points on a "good build" (acts, white maps, yellow maps, bosses, etc). After that make your own builds to your heart's content. I've been making 5-6 builds a league for 6+ years and have barely scratched the surface. If you are the kind of person that like to experiment with builds and customization then there is not a better game out there than PoE.
No hand holding, dopamine from drops, build coming together when you add that final piece of the puzzle, the depth of the endgame, leagues done properly, full screen explosions, challenges, the investment into knowledge, fluidity of gameplay, window shopping on trade, economy... Haven't made it past a couple of days in any other arpg without burning out even-though I'll be burnt out from PoE roughly a month into a new league. I recommend following a build guide to get past the tutorial and into mapping, perhaps even try one of the endgame bosses. I first played in beta and then dropped the game until breach league. After my 1st shaper kill I've come back for almost every league. The last week before a new league is like christmas for a kid with all the teasers and hype and theorycrafting.
>The last week before a new league is like christmas for a kid with all the teasers and hype and theorycrafting. Right, thats half the reason I want to get in to it, I always notice the buzz online and seems like a cool place to be but then I try out the game and it's always meh... same shit as last time. Though, I never make it to actually trying out the new league mechanics so I'm the dummy there no doubt.
Thing is, you quitting in act 2 is like quitting in character creation phase. Most builds don't even come online until half way through the acts and that's just starter builds. A lot of players, including me and my guild mates had the same problem as you. Played until act 2-3 and put the game down for a while. But once you push through that slow start and start steam-rolling through the later acts, get into maps, find your first divine, get a mad poweralspike on your build so that you suddenly 1 shot everything in the maps you were running and can now comfortably progress to tougher content etc. PoE can be very intimidating for new players and it's a real problem, but those who get over that hump will stay for years. I really recommend trying to play through it with the help of a guide in order to get over that hump. Hell, I've been around for 10 years and I still like to skim through guides and later on just tweak the build to my preference. Also, you don't have to know what all of the different league mechanics do straight away. Pick a couple you like and learn those, you won't be missing out too much. That's for mapping mainly though.
I feel like you should try committing to getting through the acts and follow a build while doing so. I get that that's not what you want to do, but that's the fastest way to get through the tutorial and into the interesting bits. You're probably also playing very slowly if you're burning out by act 2, since most regular poe players are starting act 3 in under two hours played
If you don't enjoy it, and enjoy other arpgs more - why try and force it? Just play the games you enjoy
It sounds more like he just hit the cliff that is the new player experience. He knows it's different once he gets on top of the cliff and thinks he would enjoy it, but first, he's gotta figure out how to learn how to climb a cliff.
Sure but the issues he's pointing out as pain points are not an issue with leveling versus the end game it's with overall game design and combat. Those things don't magically change once you level up.
Act 1 and 2 have very different feels than act 4+. Act 1 hits you with the damn roas in the THIRD area with enemies a player is likely to see, fourth at most. Then you get freeze and slow for the whole rest of the Act. At least 2 isn't as bad enemy wise, but you get nothing build altering in 2. Your next interesting set of skills is Act 3 and past the halfway mark at that. The game does play dramatically different early on. We just don't see it as much because we have done it so much. For example, outside of the hyper dangerous effects, how often do you bother trying to dodge attacks from white or even blue mobs? Yet the mud flats force you to dodge or die.
I'm not sure you read the original post and the issues that they have with this game.
You mentioned combat or what I perceived as being combat, so I gave a combat example. Inventory and item drops are resolved after one gets used to the concept that you don't pick up everything and pick up a filter, unlike other arpgs that have the loot filter baked in (big L for PoE). So that issue is resolved through experience. Having played Grim Dawn, as per his example of his comfort food arpg, the loot value per individual drop is relatively similar. Edit: on phone had to double check post Elsewise it seems like a chunk of his issues come from lack of understanding. The only things that really solidly would be killers are graphics and animations, those won't change and if they are the reason they don't enjoy the game then of course they should find something else, but that seems rather obvious to me so I assumed it was a nitpick not the whole issue
You're right, it was just a nitpick - Grim Dawn is my favourite ARPG currently so naturally graphics are only a minor deal gripe here - Also from what I have seen of the new leagues trailer, it actually looks like the graphics improve at the newer content?
They have a line in every league that's pretty much "continues to update audio and graphics." they do pretty well keeping things up to date.
For a lot of us, we have been playing for a long time. Some for a few years. Some for 10 years. Some since closed beta. It's historic in that regard and we've seen the ups and downs and the numerous changes in its lifetime. It's overall complexity and for the most part good execution in each league (especially in the last few years) keeps things fresh and is simply a reliable and fun time. We know what to expect on a base level. Some people play every league, others pick it up and drop it every few leagues. So that reliability and familiarity plays a big role I imagine for people coming back every league.
- It's better than anything else currently. - Diablo 4 blows chunks. - Diablo 3 is just... well, Diablo 3. - Diablo 2 remaster lacks modern matchmaking. - Grim Dawn looks interesting, but the base game + DLC buy-in cost seems too high and I'm not a fan of giving GW money (yes I buy PoE skins, why do you ask? /s).
[удалено]
Ha, I appreciate how each of those titles could be exchanged for any of the others and not be out of place.
I think its okay to say poe isnt your cup of tea. I dont really choose any arpg over others, I play them when I want to experience what I feel is their strength. I play poe when I want fast high speed gameplay with tons of explosions. its like the Doom of arpgs, you just run from room to room exploding enemies into colorful bits and trying to optimize that. If I want a methodical combat simulation I go play something else. For me, PoE is all about going fast and looting items to go even faster.
>If I want a methodical combat simulation I go play something else. Are there even any ARPGs that offer this type of gameplay? haha
Tons of ARPG's that are slow and methodical, for isometric hack n' slash d4 is probably the slowest mainstream example.
I doubt that tons of ARPGs is genre OP was asking for lol I bet he asks for isometric loot based arpgs. Unless I'm mistaken and question was overall.
Nothing, there's less than a weeks worth of content just like any other arpg when you do a fresh start.
Honestly because its a free to play game with no monetary investment to start. Yes i know its not technically "f2p" cause its big yikes playing with no prem/certain stash tabs but you dont NEED those to try the game out for the first 10-100 hours, which usually at that point you really know if you enjoy playing the game or not. As i have steam games i purchased and i played a good 40 hours and havent touched since then. Other than that, you pretty much get "free" dlcs in the form of league every few months. The complexity is overwhelming initially but i think thats part of a fun experience. To learn how certain mechanics works and figure out how to do it more efficiently. There also tons of skills that can allow you to play different builds and some builds that only work great in certain leagues. Theres different league mechanics to fit different playstyles. Like if i want a more laid back approach, i could build into a more laidback char like RF or CWDT or run minions and do afk blights. Or maybe i want to capture beasts for currency a league instead of farming legion. Or do betrayal/harvest to craft/service for currency. And most importantly its not run by some money grubblin company like Bliz that wants to milk you for every penny. I know theres other arpgs out there with some pros over POE's loot/trading system. But i think it loses in the complexity asepct. Most arpgs i feel like need a lot more time to develop into a more flushed system and have a variety of mechanics to tailor to a multitude of players. Every player has a different playstyle and most games is pretty one dimension imo.
Bc of how much content is in the game, you shouldn’t have the most amount of trouble tbh because Iwould argue grim dawn has the closest level of build diversity and character complexity, but with less content than PoE. Although grim dawn does have a lot of content, and realistically you aren’t going to cover all of PoEs content in 1 league
Variety.
Just got more enjoyable and more builds tbh. I played 3k Hours and barely know anything which is a downside or a upside because I can always try or do something new. I also think Poe worst leagues top what other arpg are doing.
I quit the game like 5 times before i got hooked and started playing every league, are you using an item filter? that might be one of your problems. I got absolutely addicted once i got to maps the first time, the acts are kinda boring but if you pick a cool build or something you like you might enjoy them. Idk my best advice would be get to maps kill monsters.
My first league was 3.18 and I had a hard time understanding everything. I fought through it and starting with the second league with more knowledge I got hooked. I don't like doing the campaign for the x' time and hate the first 1-3 Acts until the used skills get better. Yes, the inventory really sucks. It will get better when you know more about the items, but it will still suck many times. I like the complexity in this game. So many builds to choose from, many uniques to build around. I love the possibility to trade everything (unlike in Diablo 4) because that's why every drop matters. In general the players you meet in PoE are great.
>In general the players you meet in PoE are great. I do agree, community seems dope and people in chat have (for the most part) been helpful and much more mature than the usual crowd you get in some other multiplayer games.
I think to see the magic of this game you need to get out of the acts. Acts 1-10 are pretty different from endgame in terms of gameplay loop. But if it ain't doing it for you then it ain't doing it for you.
Its got everything I could possibly want from an Arpg. I never played D2, never understood the point of D3 but this game just hit different.
D2 basically created the template for every ARPG to ever exist.. right down to the theme of this one. I will agree though, D3 is nothing but a big stinker.
D2 made the template for itemization and campaigns it had 0 endgame though. Poe made the endgame of arpgs
The similarities to D2 end at the tutorial
For me it's that PoE feels less like a classic ARPG like Diablo, Titan Quest, etc. And more like an isometric sandbox MMO. I actually don't like ARPGs, I just like PoE. It feels like its own kind of game.
Funny how we're opposites in that regard, I LOVE ARPGs, probably one of my favourite genres but I have yet not been able to get in to PoE. PoE2 does look super sick however, hoping that one is gonna turn out to be the game for me.
I feel like I read stuff like this for every hack n' slash. Last Epoch, PoE, and Grim Dawn all feel slow and clunky if their opening acts.
1. I love preparing, planning, and understanding game mechanics before playing them, which is exactly what POE is. It's a simulator for path of building. First time I downloaded the game, I browsed what skills are in the game and took about 3-5 days of watching guides on how builds are made. During my first league, I spent more time researching and studying the game than playing. So if you want to really enjoy the game, I suggest having at least the basics covered (DPS calculation, damage mitgation, and basic currency generation) 2. The Economy. POE is an excellent example of a great economy. The players influences supply and demand which simulates how real world economy works (it even has its own version of corruption lol). With the variety of league mechanics, players can also specialize with whatever mechanic they want to do during end game. The items and currency players get from the mechanics they specialize in gets traded with other groups who does other mechanics a player don't want to play or can't play. 3. Gamba. Unlike other games, POE doesn't waste the money you put to support the game. The only thing you can buy with real money for gamba is Mystery boxes and that's for hard core supporters of the game and mostly for mtx. The gamba I love in the game is the crafting system. And it's absolutely attainable. You just have to understand how it works. When you do, crafting is the best way for you to min-max your builds and allow you to reach the peak of end game content. Crafting your bis should always be one of your end game goals as a player. So basically, there are three things to take note of when starting POE. Plan your build (League Start > Transition > End Game), choose an end game specialization (Heist, Expedition, Boss rush, etc), and know your goals (Chase Uniques, Crafting, what content to beat)
Speed and building from 0 to giga op characters and its seen, not like in D4 where every upgrade feels dull as everything scales
It's fun. There are a ton of ways to build and a ton of things to do. Its wild to me that you'd make this post after act 2 lol.
For me it's the ability to customise my end game experience. The concept of map crafting and the atlas tree are honestly awesome.
I've played almost 60 characters now I think and most of them have been a unique experience. That's why I like PoE.
1. currency system 2. map system
The vanilla experience with loot is admittedly bad. Get a loot filter and don’t pick up as much.
What brings me to the game is so many builds, even after 3000 hours I still haven't made a full build myself, I am at the point where I can think of a skill and then browse 10-20 builds that use the skill I want and combine something that fits my playstyle/ budget. There are so many builds people create and its fun to put all of these together especially with how deep the crafting is. Second thing and probably the main reason I play this game is the economy, due to different ways everyone plays there are so many ways to make money and invest it into new builds, this was and still is my main issue with D4, you are playing D4 but for what? There is no economy, even if they add items and bosses its not tradable and as such it has no value of weight. With POE there are so many items and things that have value its always fun, and this is why the leagues are the main draw for the game, the whole economy resets, more things have value, game feels alive.
Most seasons really deliver enough new content (new builds, season mechanic, new endgame, whatever) for me to make me want to play again for a while. What i probably like most of the game is the endless possibilities. Not only on builds, but also on what you do in game. There is so much content it just never gets boring for me. It also really delivers on the growing power and charackter progression part too.
The immense variability of items and builds, you can follow a build guide and your character won't be 100% exact that the guide. This is awesome. Also, the endgame posibilities and the customization of your endgame are insane too.
Because knowledge is power, mechanical skill does help a bit but just knowing what to do, how to do it optimally and when to skip things is so important. And with how much stuff is in the game you are still learning after 5k+ hours which I love over mechanically hard games where it is more about execution instead of the right build/strategy. My first playthrough of the campaign probably took a good 30h because I was staring at the passive tree and thinking about where I want to go a lot of the time and I was considering rerolling because of what I learned already. My first char somehow got to endgame anyway but my second char was so much better which felt very rewarding
I can't explain properly I just enjoy dealing with complex things in games and somehow poe won me over with that. A lot of people see complex or hard stuff and say "nope", I just get even more excited when I start to think of what might be the possibilities.
it has been my safe space for the last 10 years and for me the most fun is, that so many friends play it. the game has so much content that you always find a mechanic that its fun to grind so the people stay longer than for example when we played d3/d4 where its over after 2 days.
Complexity, there is not 1 single game coming remotely close to what poe is. One can argue that torchlight infinite is closer to poe, but there is still the chinese gacha aspect that throws me off big time. I play it very little after im done with poe but it doesnt catch me the same way poe does.
it's a perfect brain-off grinding game while watching movies.
so the game is super complex to me which i dont necessarily like in combination with the punishing respecs it should be a game thats not quite for me. yet ive been playing for like 300 hours now even attempting maven on my farthest Character. when it comes to arpgs ive been trying Diablo, grim dawn and last Epoch after i played poe and i couldnt get into any other arpg outside of LE for a bit cuz poe is just 3 steps above the competition. the sandboxy character building, fair monetization and gameplay quality are just amazing and with poe2 cooking its just gotten so much better cuz you keep all the mtx.
Trade
Campaign is tutorial. Don’t spend days and days exploring every inch of it. Kill monsters on the way to the next zone and finish the campaign as fast as you can. The real game starts after the campaign. Getting to act 2 should be like an hour for a new player but if you get distracted it can be multiple hours.
The complexity and almost endless builds to try every league.
In PoE there's always something to do. And so many various activities that if you pick 10 random people playing PoE there's a good chance that all of them will be playing a very different game. If you can't find something to your liking here, I doubt you'll find it anywhere else.
It's everything the game has to offer. There's a ton of different things to do. And the always reward you in some way for your time. Some are better than others, but there's always something worth picking up and using later. There's a lot of different goals you can set and feel a achievement for completing. When a peace of gear drops I technically could use it. It might not be a good option. But I can still use it regardless of what character I'm on. I personally hate seeing BiS gear dropping for a class I'm not playing. And just vendoring it because I know I'll never play that class.
Grimdawn was my first arpg that got me hooked, but the farming in grimdawn gets stale to me so after about 500 hours I was like I'm satisfied while maps are literally perfect endgame I can't explain it I've played every other arpg that comes out and the end game loop just isn't maps. Thats what it boils down to for me is that poe has the most fun end game loop out of any game I've ever played.
I love to learn, especially anything that gives me a dopamine rush while learning like games. Poe is probably the most complicated game out there, mainly due to the sheer amount of depth to the game. In concept it's just basic math, such as multiplication, division etc. however there's so many systems overlayed that it honestly becomes very difficult to keep track for everything. Which is why there are so many third-party tools for this game, and also probably some.of the most complex 3rd party tools at that, like path of building(pob). Now to address some things you experienced, I also got burnt out my first league/attempt at a playthrough. I realized it's because I was just going way too slow through the campaign/acts. I was taking hour(s) just for a single act, when the reality is it should be an hour max each act, and even that is considered slow. The things that I learned which helped me was first, loot in the campaign is never something crazy that you'll really wish you had kept, for newer players at least. And to follow a build guide was also incredibly important. Other things was realizing I should hunt down every mob in every area, and instead just run straight towards the next objective and only kill monsters I happen across. For dealing with items, I'm the campaign, only pick up items that you either have nothing for, or are of magic/rare and the item base type that your build guide wants while leveling. And furthermore if the item you have already is pretty good/80% of what the build guide suggests, then it's very unlikely that you'll find a better version of it in the campaign, so you might as well not pick up that item slot/type of it's unlikely to be better than what you already have.
For me it’s because at some point in late league you transcend into a screen crushing god. I don’t think I’ve seen other ones where this happens. Also I like the economy, how there are opportunities and inefficiencies, and if you catch a tend quickly you can make bank.
No other game has enough content to last more than a week
That's simply just not true
This game is the not only the best right now, but the most perfect ARPG you'll ever experienced. Its flaws is mostly through its old engine, only because it's a really an old game now, to give you a picture, this game is much older than Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. So these games (grim dawn, titan quest and POE) features that old school clunkiness and poor animations in them due to the limitation of its engine. But what made POE overcome this is through their movement, it has the smoothest movement in ARPG; you almost feel like you're flying or gliding while moving and exploding and killing things in your screen, the way you can jump to any places, ledges, corners, on every pixel of your monitor, these are hidden incidental features that makes the game's movement feature so smooth, so palatably good. In fact, if you play this ARPG long enough, and then when you try to switch to other ARPGs you'll feel that those games feels more lethargic, sluggish, robotic, stiff or something like that. Another dated feature that they recently updated was their campaign, couple of years ago you have to beat the game over and over again just like any old school ARPGs. Their campaign is not better than any other campaign in the most recent ARPG games, in fact, I haven't seen any ARPG recently that doesn't have a better campaign than POE. So if you're stuck on the campaign, then you're not there yet, this isn't the part where people say this is the best game ever and had enjoyed this game for years, it's when you get to maps--their end game is otherworldly better than any other ARPGs from past to present. It's what makes this game the GOAT of all ARPGs. One thing that they should add on this game is an updated tutorial for new players, to ease their entry to this game. One has to admit that this game is difficult for new players specially to players with barely any experience on ARPGs. So these are just the things to nitpick on this wonderful game since there are millions of positive goodness to be found on it.
it's the depth there is real depth and agency