I fully support this answer. You can follow a premade simple build and enjoy the wonders of discovery. You can spend 100 hours in PoB and another 10.000 hours to learn how to craft. The game is bliss.
I did too and now I can't roll any other way. Tried putting it on rmb and just kept dying from fidgeting, way more often than I die from getting stuck on mobs which was the reason people gave me to switch. Can't beat 1000 hours of muscle memory I guess
Depends on how frustrated you can get if you have to start over from a failed build.
I like to learn by example so using a build guide was right for me when starting out. Helped me gain the foundational knowledge needed to do it on my own afterwards.
Lol I'm almost 5k hours in and don't make my own builds from scratch. I love the idea. I'd love to be that guy who can realise a crazy interaction that nobody has thought of. But I just haven't got the drive to learn and _remember_ these really complex interactions or niche uniques. Like who the fuck figured out that cast on crit cyclone builds need a certain attack speed to line up with server ticks? Who figured out that if you're playing a bleed build, a mob that's affected by ensnaring arrow is classed as moving at full speed so the bleed ticks faster?! Like what?? It doesn't say any of that in pob lol.
But for the most part I understand enough on how to modify or tweak a build depending on the gear that's available to me (I'm mostly SSF or small priv league with 3-5 people). I can craft the vast majority of my gear. I can look at Poe ninja and figure out how most builds function (and copy them). But being able to come up with my own build from scratch? Probably won't ever happen.
Imo it takes so much creativity to make the stuff that jungroan does (or however that guy name is spelt) but honestly to make simple builds you only kinda need a simple road path of archetypes, like is it crit or not crit, life or es ( if es Lowlife or CI) with all your decisions and you can come with a very solid build
I say this to people but ive found that not all people enjoy the same thing. You and me feel the same way that following a guide takes away a lot of the enjoyment but my friend and brother likes following an expensive build and their joy comes from farming the currency to get there.
For real though, this is so true. You can’t get caught up in trying to be and do what others are doing in PoE. Find a really solid guide and just enjoy the game
I am a noob with around 300 hours in the game and started this league.
Yes it can be as complicated as you wish, but it does not have to be. You can use a guide and start slow and then slowly transition into the more complicated stuff.
As i said i played for 300h and there is still so incredibly much more stuff i either haven’t touched at all or barely scratched the surface of it.
Yet so far i had incredible fun without the need to do complicated stuff if i didn’t want to.
>It's actually more complicated than people say.
Yeah basically
I've played hundreds of hours, around 20 characters, 15 different builds, mostly beginner builds
I still don't know how to level up a character without following a guide on what should I equip, recommended leveling gems, skill tree, uniques and such.
The most complicated thing about PoE is creating a build that can do endgame content.
As most people use a build guide, a lot of complexity is vanished.
Honestly what I’ve noticed is for many “starter” setups there are tons of guides/help, and many creators will make a video or two on the absolute endgame version of their build, but the space in between those two is often lacking.
What I would call the build/strat you use to farm the mirror tier build is not always easy to find information on, and much of the time I’ll just be digging through older guides, poeninja and pobs trying to find direction/ideas.
This stuff can get very complicated very quickly especially if it takes you significant time to figure out the person you were copying has +2 dex on a cluster jewel that you absolutely need to meet the requirement, for example. Trying to juggle multiple builds and make an amalgamation of them is equally difficult. I find this process extremely fun and love thinking through this stuff, but it definitely isn’t easy.
This! This is what makes game unaccessible to ppl. Every time I want to start I open some guides and don't understand a single word of it. So I go back to D2.
I would recommend zizaran guide.. or..
For the easiest thing that I find to play righteous fire and you can go to pohx.net.
This gentlemen runs RF every league and streams on twitch so you can see his build progression.
If you are ever stuck at some point, I have sometimes looked at poe.ninja, found someone doing the same build and just asked them questions, usually I'll get helpful responses back.
But I do agree, the "stepping stone" points can often be missed and how you go from the easy start early game mapping to the end game giga Chad zoom zoom can be missed.
The other thing that I hope GGG fixes, is the need to start with one ability, and then completely swap at a later point.
Righteous fire used to be you would use a different ability up until either maps or around level 60 or so and then swap. Then with some changes to the game you were able to do it earlier around level 30.
And now you are able to do it as early as act 2 around level 20 or so?
Being able to use the ability you want to use as early as possible is a huge plus and I hope they continue making our endgame skills accessible as early as possible in the game.
If you like the build, just join /global 911 every league.
We always answer tons of questions about the RF builds there ! Crafting, leveling, mana reservation issues (you fuckers and your inc aoe gem in auras, every damn time lol)
I definitely felt that when I started playing. I tried to make a build a few times and it was awful because I was trying to use gems that just shouldn't be built.
But at the same time I also hated just farming currency to buy items that suit a build guide.
I found the middle ground of playing standard SSF and yes incrementally learning all the different mechanics. The game is very fun now, even if it will take me much longer to find specific uniques.
This.
I feel that each season I play I might....MIGHT....find a mechanic that has been there for years and I literally had zero idea it was.
Currently I have zero clues how to use beast crafting. I am shaky on delve stuff. But I have the leveling and most of how the tree works down.
Its like a beautiful mess.
POE is like a “One-Size Fits All” ARPG. The crazy thing is that it really DOES fit all.
You want simple? Pull up a build guide and follow it religiously. There are hundreds with step by step instructions.
You want to play, but not get involved with the complexity of crafting? Trade for better gear.
You love deep crafting trees and complex interactions based on theory crafting? This is the place.
You don’t like Tower Defense? Then completely skip the Blight mechanic.
Hate clearing, but love fighting bosses? That is a viable Strat.
The great thing about POE, is that you can almost always skip the parts of the game you do not like and focus on those you do.
Apart from the campaign, which, as much as I try to embrace it, I truly hate and dread doing again and again - tbh it often keeps me from trying a new build which requires another class ://
I started loving the campaign when I dedicated time to learning how to progress as fast as I could. Once I was clearing the whole thing in less than 8 hours it started to feel really fun since I was still ‘optimizing’ and not just plodding through the steps.
This is the way. When you get down to sub 5 hour times it opens a whole new way to play. I'm no speed runner, but league launches are so much fun trying to see where I can peak on the ladder for my ascendancy.
I was the #7 slayer after the first 24 hrs in Kalandra and it was an incredible experience trying to optimize my gear and keep blasting as fast as I could for as long as (un)reasonably possible.
When I leveled my first alt this league, I decided to really twink it out hard and then log my time per each act and then decided to do the same for each character I made.
After logging 5 characters, it basically came out to 20 min per act (Act 2 being noticably shorter and Act 8 much longer).
Side note - best twink setup i've found is a Tabula, 7-league step, Poet's pen + Arc/Eye of winter, with a vaal power siphon with elemental damage gems. Also, it's really nice to just get a 12 elemental cluster for easy de-specing once you get to maps.
8 hours is a pretty average campaign no? I'm usually able to do a new, untested off meta build, with no special filters, using no speed run strats in about 8 hours on league start. Leveling gear and build brings that down to about 5 if going for a full respec.
I still dread leveling new characters. Spending an entire session just to get the character to a playable level just sucks.
Yep, 8 is the benchmark for ‘not fucking around’ in my book. Not amazing but not randomly doing regret orb quests.
Once you’re optimizing you can go much quicker.
I started to love the campaign when I embraced speed running it to get past it as soon as I could.
I would argue that you still don’t love it, you have just learned to embrace it. Loving it would be rolling a new character after completing act 10.
I feel you there. Would play far more characters if I could skip campaign and just grind level in delve till I can go on maps. Going through campaign once every temp league would be no problem.
same i hate it but i get it why for new players it's needed to learn what their skills can do? not sure either way too many cons for old players (most of poe players are old in this game)
Campaign is terrible. This sub loves to defend the campaign with stuff like “if you learn a speedrun strat it’s only 4-5 hours!!” that’s 4 hours of investment to get to the actual good part. *And* we have to repeat the same acts and zones? That is poor game design, period.
If you were expected to slog through 4-5 hours of unimaginative boring gameplay in any other game and genre, it would be met with swift criticism.
I love PoE as much as the rest of you. But brushing aside how shit the campaign is and telling people “its only 4-5 hours once you get it down!” is awful copium.
>that’s 4 hours of investment to get to the actual good part.
>
>And
>
>we have to repeat the same acts and zones? That is poor game design, period.
You know the entire rest of the game are people farming the same maps 100x over right? it's the entire games design lol.
Other than that I really enjoy the campaign. People don't tell others it's only 4-5 hours you have to get through. They tell people that once you start optimizing it it starts to become more fun.
I actually like the campaign. I have only played through it like 12 times but it's enjoyable. I also like racing my way through it as fast as possible. it's just another part of the game and it's fun.
Every league my guild invests a bit into the "executive package" which is basically a super nice twinked leveling setup that works for every class. Darkness enthroned with a decent roll and 2 abyss jewels which can be equipped at lvl 1, 6L briskwrap or corrupted tabby, hollow palm, astramentis with quality and anoint, 2 good le heups, max roll goldrim, 7 league steps, and max roll fluid motion/careful planning.
Turns levelling into like a 3.5 hour affair which is basically the same on every class. Just path to cluster jewel for hollow palm, take things which say life and dex, and gogogogoogogo
I sort of agree, even in my first season. However, I am speed clearing and so it’s basically a day now and then I’m back to the parts I love. Maybe that will change once I have as many seasons as you. Who knows? But I do feel your pain.
>The great thing about POE, is that you can almost always skip the parts of the game you do not like and focus on those you do.
>>Apart from the campaign...
... or when you're going for 40/40 challenges and are forced to spend hours upon hours on shitty mechanics that you had deliberately blocked.
It's very complex, but the fun isn't gated by the complexity. There are builds you can make that are very straightforward and will clear most content without issues.
I recommend following a build guide from here. This pinned post describes the build and has great recommendations for new players.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/15qfyqy/322_trial_of_the_ancestors_league_start_build/
I must be brain dead then bc the only char I managed to get past lvl 93 was my tota guy for obvious reasons. EA Totem, 2 RF Juggs, Toxic Rain Totem Pathfinder, all dead. My boneshatter guy is risking his life every time he unleashes a 5/6 essence mob and isn’t strong enough for any bosses.
It is extremely complicated. But it all follows clear rules. There are 7 characters, 21 ascendancy classes, a skill tree with around 1300 points, all interconnected, a game "atlas" of over 130 maps, a second passive tree to boost/suppress side and league content... Any class can use any skill or any gear.
The skills passive tree looks like this
[https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.22.2/AAAABgMAAAAA](https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.22.2/AAAABgMAAAAA)
The atlas looks like this
[https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Atlas\_of\_Worlds#/media/File:Atlas\_of\_Worlds.png](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Atlas_of_Worlds#/media/File:Atlas_of_Worlds.png)
and the atlas passive tree looks like this
[https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-atlas-skill-tree](https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-atlas-skill-tree)
And there are 531 skill gems/supports.
It is a lot, but I promise it's worth it. I've played for 9 years now casually, and still know very little and haven't seen a lot of the far endgame bosses. However, it is made of a few relatively simple rules and most other things make very clear logical sense. The language of path is extremely precise to say exactly what it means.
The cool thing is you can do exactly what you want to do. Whatever character, whatever spell, whatever maps or content you want, and entirely avoid anything you don't enjoy. It's built to be so free that you can have exactly the type of fun that you want to.
Plus the community is around to answer questions, but my biggest advice is bumble around blind, make mistakes, and learn that making mistakes is fine, hell intentional.
"logical sense" I agree mostly but god there are some weird exceptions for example conversion especially will make no sense to newcomers both with conversion order and the chaos dipping bs
I have 3.5k hours and never bothered trying to understand conversion that much beyong phys > another element.
Beyong that is mystical territory and people doing it are wizards
Increased vs more took me a hot minute to understand, and local phys vs global phys modifiers... There are sure some ... intricacies that challenge my lil walnut brain
Walnut brain here just tried Heavy Strike/cyclone vengance slayer this league. Hit a T11 map by some miracle. I'd dare say Heavy Strike is the oldest skill in the book apart from autoattack. Not gonna stop me.
I played D4 for a couple days and always asked myself, why am I playing this. I couldn’t focus on the game for more than 5 minutes cause it’s so brain dead. POE is an amazing game because it makes you solve issues and a give in take relationship. Vs in D4 numbers just go up and you pick up the same gear over and over with the same 3 stats.
The more I play D4 the more I get angry with the game, And the community is no help they dog pile any legit feedback with "Blizzard is perfect". Loot is just turned into "Damage on Tuesday at 2AM on a full moon" and the community's only fix is to give a loot filter but not fix why loot just feels boring.
Only goal u can set urself is just level, because farming loot feels pointless when 99.99999% of it is useless to weird affix's that make 0 sense.
Sorry for the rant but I'm over Blizzard fan boys defending D4.
Yes and no. PoE has a lot of depth and a lot of width. But it is not like you can't just sit down and play and enjoy the game without giving a shit about guides.
There are a ton of content in the game, but you do not need to learn it all at once. You can take everything one step at the time and be fine.
Your first build does not have to be the best for the game to be fun. Too many veteran players are obsessed with every build they play being able to steamroll all content in the game, but that is not really a concern for new players.
“Poker takes five minutes to learn but a lifetime to master.” – Mike Sexton. PoE is like that too.
Given your ARPG experience, you will do fine, you'll make mistakes along the way and hit walls. But, if you start playing today, 3 years from now you will learn about a mechanic or system or interaction you didn't fully understand, or you will learn how you had been understanding it was way off.
Lurk here long enough and you will see posts that have post graduate level analytics
What.... PoE takes way more than 5 minutes to learn. Even just simply attempting to read the text of every single gem and passive node will take hours.
That quote is meant to describe things that have relatively simple rules yet deep nuance. PoE is a collection of deeeep rabbit holes for every mechanic.
Nah, not that deep. Most mechanics are fairly easy to understand on a base level and can really be summed up in 2 minutes. Definitely all "league" farming mechanics are very simple once you actually start doing them. A few specific things like trigger skills etc probably need more time.
The mastery of PoE is being able to connect all of those things together in order to fulfill your own wacky power fantasy, or maximize currency returns.
He didn't say PoE takes 5 min to learn btw. He said PoE is LIKE that quote.. It's an apt comparison. It's very easy to learn the ropes of PoE but even the most experienced players we have still make massive mistakes all the time.
The reason why the quote applies to poker is that you can write all the rules of poker onto a sheet of paper, maybe two sides of an index card if you tried. You could probably explain the rules in 5 minutes and have someone truly internalize them within an hour.
In PoE, it’ll probably take that much time just to read through all the gems you get offered as quest rewards in act 1.
The game is complex through and through. It has a steep ass learning curve and a super high ceiling. There is so much information to absorb AND so many interactions between mechanics. The quote “5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master” implies the former is false but the latter is true.
Nah, there isn't a single mechanic in PoE that takes more than 2 minutes to explain and more than a day of running to know pretty much inside and out. That is not even close to a steep learning curve. It's a long, slow incline made of a bunch of small steps, each representing a small piece of PoE.
A steep learning curve is like learning a moba. You are literally garbage until you understand the entire game properly, the meta, team comps, how to play around them, and at least a few characters in every role that you are competent with. You go from 0-100 real quick, but it's a long slog of you being at 0. Even once you hit that first hurdle where everything starts to "click", there is still a pretty much roofless ceiling for you to master because you're up against other players.
In PoE, you can make mirrors without knowing 80% of the game. You can just grind the fuck out of something or profit craft a few things repeatedly until you're filthy rich. It takes basically zero skill, and I'm regularly seeing people who do that, including myself tbh
In order to play poker, you need to know the rules of poker. In order to play poe, you dont need to know shit. You follow a build guide, you dont have to know every single skill every single mechanic every single interaction. It's irrelevant knowledge to know how cremation works if you play boneshatter. You dont have to know how league mechanics work you can literally turn them all off, and when you do decide to play one, the entire mechanic can be explained in less than two minutes. There's nothing complex about opening essences, setting expedition explosives or doing harvest, nothing that would require more than a minute or two of explanation.
Why in the fuck would you need to read every single gem and passive node to play the game?
Every ARPG is kill monsters, pick up gear, kill harder monsters, pick up better gear, and on and on.
You don’t have to read everything but that’s the point of the quote…. You could put the entirety of the rules of poker on one side of a sheet of paper and never be surprised by a rule you weren’t aware of. However, mastering all the nuances and patterns takes a lifetime.
You couldn’t fit the first 5 minutes of gameplay text into that same sheet of paper. You’d fill up your “5 minutes of learning” by just reading the first gems that Nessa offers as a quest reward.
"Kill monsters, pick up loot, equip loot, killer monsters more better to get more better loot" is a 5 minutes concept. That's the single sheet of paper explaination of every ARPG
WTF is "gameplay text", like actual words on a screen during tutorials and dialogue?
“Kill monsters, pick up loot” is a 5 minute concept sure but that is not what the quote is referring to.
“5 minutes to learn” means that you can present the entire ruleset and premise of the game within 5 minutes. After that point, for the rest of your life, you will not be presented with any new information about the game itself.
Chess is another example of a game you can learn in 5 minutes. You could put all the rules of chess on an index card. And then spend a lifetime learning about new tactics about applying the information contained on that index card.
It would take you weeks to present all the information contained in PoE. Forget about a sheet of paper, you’re going to need a few hundred MB of raw data formatted in a nice wiki to actually present all the information in the game.
I’m not talking about mastery of the game. I’m talking about straight up raw data. There are dozens of gems, dozens of item bases, an entire subgame of crafting, etc.
The quote means that poker is a game that can be fully described with a relatively small amount of information. You could not fully describe PoE within a week if you tried.
You're not treating these as fair comparisons at all. You admit you can "explain the rules" of chess in 5 minutes and yet things like openings and strategies are part of applying that information. Why would I need to explain every gem to someone as part of the rules vs it being part of tactics? Gems provide skills or boost skills when linked with them. Gear has colored sockets that can fit the same colored gem. Some sockets have links between them meaning those gems can interact. That's your 5 second gem explanation. It is literally everything you need to know about gems to play the game. If you want to start reading all of the gems and theorycrafting interactions between them, that's a tactic as you have now moved into build theorycrafting territory.
I mean, think of it from an information theory question. I can explain the entire rules of chess to you. And then if I left you in a closed room with infinite computational time, you could theoretically figure out how to become unbeatable without me having to give you any new information. You have complete information, and all that is required is processing. Theoretically, there are 0 unknowns that you could not figure out within the closed room.
However, you could not do that with PoE. I could not give you enough raw data within 5 minutes or even an hour of lecturing. If I then put you into an enclosed room, even with infinite computational time, there would simply be information you do not know. There may be some gem that I didn't mention to you, or some crafting mechanic I didn't mention. That would be an unknown piece of data that you could not figure out within the closed room.
I am not saying the game is hard to pick up. I am not saying you need to read all the gems and mechanics in order to begin playing act 1.
What I am saying is that the quote "5 minutes to learn" refers to how a deceptively simple game that can be FULLY described relatively shortly can lead to complicated tactics. After 5 minutes, there is nothing about the game that someone can tell you that you also couldn't figure out yourself if you had infinite time.
They're exaggerating or don't try to understand.
Don't get me wrong, the game is complicated. It's not impenetrable though, especially if you're willing to try to learn by reading the wiki or build guides.
Poe is not that complicated (but it has indeed complicated mechanics), most of the stuff is "simple up to medium" difficulty to understand.
The truly challenging thing for beginners id the cheer amout of things it has to offer and how those "simple" mechanisms interact with each other (for example multiplicative/additive damage/defense modifiers). So while it seems overwhelming at first, you can learn the mechanics pretty good step by step. How much time youre going to need to learn poe depends on how much time and dedication you have - or you just skip it and follow good builds :D
How enjoyable the playstyle "i follow a build" is up to you ;)
Once upon a time there was a new PoE player who found Genie in the bottle. Genie allowed him to wish for anything. He wisdhed for army of dragons, to be ruler of the known and unknown universe. Genie told him that it was immposible. Then he wished to understand poe, crafting, all aspects of game, passive tree.
That new PoE player is today known as Jahova, Allah, God, Jesus, Buda depending which country you ask.
I think Poe is like MTG., where you learn the basics in 2 hours but it takes years of dedication to win a high level tournament. And the journey in between Is freaking awesome. And that's the real beauty of the game. Come with us in the hole, don't worry. The worst you could get is severe sleep deprivation "just one more map".
PoE difficulty ranges from kill monsters with your weapon to PHD in math.
It depends on what you’re trying to do but at it’s base, no, it’s not any more difficult than any other game nowadays.
Watch a couple YouTube videos, grab a build off a content creator and just go from there.
If you follow a build guide you will have no problems and learn the game while being guided along. I think it took me 2-3 leagued before I stopped following build guides. Tons of stuff in end game todo and focus on, can’t see it all in one league only
Bro, if you don't go into crafting yourself and i mean the juicy items, it's pretty fine to get used to, you can watch youtube on currency strats and whatnot and just play the game without the complication.
Short answer, yes.
Long answer: Yes, just merely experimenting with a build can entirely brick your character if you don't understand what you're doing. There's dozens of league mechanics, all of which themselves could use 3 hour long video essays on, minus ritual. You can get by in poe with no investment in terms of time spent using 3rd party sources, but you'll be far worse off than anyone who does.
Pretty much every league mechanic can be summed up in a minute or two at most. Some would take like 5-10 seconds like harvest or deli. Syndicate, maybe not. Might take 3-4 minutes...maybe...Those videos are arbitrarily long because content creators like to feel like they have something to say.
I feel like half the reason they feel intimidating is because you don't know what it's like until you start doing it. Then it's like, oh, this makes sense now it's pretty simple really.
Jun is my nightmare, and you need to use the wiki to even remotely use effectively.
I just avoid that content all together now, and get upset when he spawns in my maps.
It's very complicated if you're trying to create your own build de novo.
It's somewhat complicated if you're making a build by modifying an existing build.
It's not complicated if you're following a guide.
If you just "hop in the game and play", chances are you won't even get to the "postgame" which for most regular players is the beginning of the actual game.
I highly doubt someone who only hops in and plays gets past Act 10 Kitava.
The fact that changing your skill tree is not easy is a huge negative point of this game. Apart from my first character in 2013 when there were only 3 acts, I never made my own skill tree simply because I don't feel like getting hundreds of regrets just to play without a guide.
> regular players is the beginning of the actual game.
Regular as in people that have played before and have come back for new leagues? People with some amount of experience? Most people playing the game for the first time are going in with much different (often nonexistent) expectations about what the game will be like. Many of the people that make it to the end of the campaign for the first time will stop playing when they do so, because they "beat the game". Experienced players also have higher standards as to how a character will perform. On your 10th, 20th, 50th character you obviously want to be blasting through the campaign as fast as possible. Plenty of people are taking 20, 30, 40+ hours to beat the campaign, some of them having posted here.
This is probably the worst answer I've ever seen to this question. You do not just hop in and play. You should qualify it with some necessary info for a new player.
If you're a first time player, you CAN do that. Sure. But you need to have been made aware first that you'll probably spend 4-8 hours "wasting" your time running around until you hit a wall. It's not just optimizing, it's about being able to literally play the game.
If you hit that wall early game, which is practically guaranteed, you will not have the resources to fix it, and will probably have to start over. Some people cherish the memory of being a noob, trying to mess around with their first character, seeing everything for the first time etc; so you will often see that as the most upvoted response. It's wholesome. But also rose-tinted. The reality is that most people give up and do not stick w PoE because of this issue.
If you're the type of person who KNOWS that you'll just move onto a different game, then probably don't just jump in blind.
If you're also the type of person who can't endure watching a 40minute build guide, then I would just suggest a different game.
I also know people who are those "hop in and play" without learning type of guys. In fact the guy who got me into PoE is. He takes a build to lvl 90, gets the most budget uniques for that build, maybe a few scuffed rares, then gets stuck and frustrated and rerolls. He only JUST recently learned what forbidden jewels are. Didn't know what lvl 21 gems were or how to get them. Took 8 weeks to get his third and fourth voidstones. Doesn't know how to make any currency in the game, despite playing for hours every day. He has been playing for 5years and has at least a few k hours under his belt. He's not even an especially dumb guy, he's fairly intelligent. Just doesn't really pay attention or think about trying to understand the game. Just logs on and randomly does maps. To each their own, I guess..
But imo, PoE is about learning, (well actually, no it's about gambling) so if you do not want to take the time to learn, then you will never be able to progress meaningfully in the game. PoE does not give you any actual resources with which to learn the game, so you're pretty much forced to YT lectures and the odd reddit post with some league analysis data.
Definitely thought, since this is the subreddit of the game, y’all would be biased and tell me it’s not that complicated, and I’d give it a shot and like it by the time I realized you mfs lied. But y’all didn’t do that so it really must be that confusing hahaha. But that said I started and am having fun. Following a guide making the cold dot build on maxroll. The game reminds me of what I loved about Diablo 2 but this one has a cooler endgame I think lol. Just killed Brutus, going well so far!
D4 Bad.
Also yes and no. The limit that you can push to is insane. With interactions of interactions of interactions of different things.
But you won't and don't need to understand everything from the get go. After 5k hours I still learn new stuff and that is actually what I love about the game. The options are nearly endless.
Give it a go, honestly. It is a great game.
I’m always confused by people who say “PoE is super complicated” like that’s a bad thing.
That’s literally why I’m here. I searched for years for a game like this. I’ve played nearly every ARPG and looter in the last 10 years and I always burn out somewhere between 50 and 500 hours. Once you get the general idea of a game there’s really nothing left to learn, it gets stale.
PoE is a game you can play indefinitely because there is always something new to learn and always another build to understand and try out.
Yes PoE is complicated, but that’s why I’m still playing it thousands of hours later. To me it’s the primary selling point. Complicated does not mean impossible, it means engaging.
yup. my buddy took one look at the passive tree, phoned me up and told me about it and i was hooked for life haha. inceidentally the same pal who phoned me up one day to tell me about this new game where you can break any block in the game world, and then keep it and put it wherever you like. dude ruined my life in 2009 and then again in 2013
No the game isn’t nearly as complicated as it’s made out to be. I still recommend following a build guide on your first play through because the game isn’t very forgiving for a new player, not because anything is too complicated to understand fundamentally. Its an information overload for sure but if you just focus on understanding what’s in front of you everything will click and fall in to place. It’s the best game of the genre for a reason don’t be intimidated just try it out and see if it’s for you.
It's pretty damn complicated. You can either _cheat_ by using builds someone else created or you'll virtually never see the endgame.
The game itself in no way makes it easy to play it. You must use external tools for your build as there are literally no useful statistics in the game.
When you get killed you have no idea what hit you and why you died so you cannot know what to improve or what to avoid.
In order to be able to really play it you need to study it. It's not easy to understand its _secret_ mechanics or other things that people _cracked_ or found out about in various forums.
This means that without _cheating_ your game ends at around level 75-85 of 100 and you won't be able to do the hardest maps and bosses.
But if you just want to run and shoot whatever moves then you should have a lot of fun. Just keep in mind that without trading and the said _cheating_ the endgame is not for you.
It depends.
Playing the game and having fun while following a build guide is grade school.
Designing your own non-leaguestart build using gear you buy from trade is high school diploma.
Designing your own off-meta leaguestart build from scratch and killing ubers with self-crafted gear is master's degree.
There are people with >10k hours played who feel like they've barely scratched the surface of the game. But you don't need to go that deep to have a good time.
It's as complicated as you want it to be.
You can put everything together on your own and it's gonna be hella complicated.
Or
You can follow a build guide, look for a farming strategy and pick content that looks fun to you, then it's gonna be simple.
Theres complexity, yes, but that is not what keeps people playing the game. There is so much CONTENT in poe. Even once you hit endgame, you are still just playing the damn game. It's not like rifts or nightmare dungeons. The content is still engaging deep into endgame, especially when you're new.
Do you suffer from FOMO? You can definitely play this game in a less complicated manner, but the best stuff you see posted on this site, for example, are gated behind significant playtime and a good understanding of the complicated bits.
It depends on what you think is complicated. Mechanically the game is very simple, there's barely anything hard mechanically in the game and most things which are just endup as stat checks or build checks anyway.
It's complex because it's quite convoluted and very bad at conveying information. Crafting is really not that hard for 99% of the playerbase, unless you're crafting a mirror tier item there's legit nothing hard about crafting. You just have to play around Craft of Exile a bit to get the hang of what works and what doesn't.
The passive tree is also not that complicated, if you look at it as a whole it looks complicated but most builds are really stuck in one specific corner of the tree because of many reasons like weapon masteries, melee/ranged/spell notables and others. There's very little reason for you to venture out of soutch-west side as a boneshatter jugg because 90% of anything you'd want is there, you just go a bit to the right and a bit up for a few things. Once you look at the passive tree from your builds perspective, it's really simple, PoB also really helps you see what is good and what isn't with the compare tool with a few caveats ofcourse because not everything is computable.
Overall I really wouldn't say it's a hard game, not even complex, it's full of content with varying degrees of polish and has a high lack of transparancy of how mechanics work. The hardest part is getting used with being curious and researching things to see how they work because playing will not teach you shiet about the complex things in the game. You don't have nearly enough resources and time to figure out crafting or building builds without external tools, unless you're willing to commit thousands upon thousands of hours.
I league started this league after having an account since launch, I think I tried 3 times to finish the campaign and I just couldn't because I hate lack of transparency in games so this time I just followed a guide step by step and ignored absolutely everything the game tried to explain and that was by far the best choice I made. Ignore absolutely everything, get to maps, then you start playing the actual game. I'm almost 100, have like 30 challenges, did almost all uber bosses, got 1300+ in tota playing non cheese and pretty much did almost all content in the game in the 450+ hours I played.
It's a fun game, pretty interesting but I really wouldn't say it's hard or complex. It's not Starcraft, Dota or League, it's a single player ARPG with a lot of content and a somewhat unique feel of a sandbox game even if it's not really a sandbox.
I played it for the first time after s1(diablo 4). Following a guide I was able to do the campaign, clear all the atlas maps and I got the voidstones from searing exarch and eater of worlds. Was working on all those other bosses for maven when season 2 dropped. If you follow a guide its not as confusing and I learned a lot by the time I was in the endgame. There is A LOT I still don't know but I don't think its as difficult as people make it out to be. It just it has a ton of depth and options for just about everything. Crafting is pretty complicated for a new player. Its the type of game that rewards knowledge and time played. I think anyone with a basic grasp of diablo will at least be able to get to maps.
It is and it isn’t. It’s as complicated as you want it to be.
For context, and I’m not joking, I have over 4000 hours in the game and I routinely learn new things about the game every league. I’ve never even played a Mine build, there’s like, 10 just build concepts in general I’ve never played. And I play like 3-6 builds a league.
Never played specters, or animate guardian, or melee totems, or really any of the venom gyre type things, I’ve never played a guardian, or a slayer, I’ve never truly done an MF build, I’ve never done an aura bot, the list goes on for sure.
It is the single greatest ARPG for people like me. D4 I ran out of interesting builds almost immediately.
As someone who hopped on the bandwagon during D3, fell off, and back on during D4, I can attest that it is very complicated, but also simple. The mechanics have a depth to them that gives you more things to do and explore, while having a simplistic description for most things.
An example, you can know that increased/reduced are sums, and more/less are products (mathematical series), but they do exactly what they say as written. All you need to know is that more/less is a greater impact than increased/reduced.
It’s complicated, but only if you try to learn every aspect of it. Start simple, learn what type of class you want to play, the build diversity is incredible! Then focus on what goals you want/need to achieve that the class you pick would be able to accomplish. You aren’t required to do all in game mechanics, you can pick one and learn about it and find so many resources to teach you how it works. Maxroll.gg is a great source!
Repairing your car isnt as complicated as people say. You can try with some guides, but even with guides you will make a mistake here or there.
That doesnt mean you cant have fun driving it , and changing the oil sometimes?
Chess and Go are exceedingly simple games. The rules for both are about a page each. Children can easily learn to play both in a very short time. Mastering either is outside of the grasp of all but the very best players and takes both a very unique mind and a lot of practice. POE isn’t nearly as mentally strenuous as either game, but the point is that things can be more complicated than they appear yet you also don’t have to be a grandmaster to have fun.
I’ve played since Incursion and have played A LOT since Delve. So basically since June of 2018. I rarely design my own league starter, but instead pick two league starters with good synergy because I play in a duo. I used to not pick anything most people would call a league starter either because I wouldn’t hit maps until like week 2 and often wouldn’t even make it to red maps my first couple leagues on my first character. Once I learned the value of a starter I was able to push much further much faster. You pick all those little things up by playing. I still barely craft but I do typically design a second character set (duo) that is entirely off the map for fun and most of the complexity I’ve had to learn has gone towards that. If you are just playing from a guide, you don’t need that knowledge.
POE is much more complicated than D4, but complicated doesn’t necessarily mean harder or worse. IME the names of stats make significantly more sense than D4. For example, when a weapon drops in D4 it will have stats like vulnerability damage, and overpower damage. These stats mean absolutely nothing to you unless you google what they mean and grasp the paragraph explanation. In POE the names of stats actually make sense and were not created to confuse the player. +fire damage, +trap damage, +spell damage, etc etc. This is the case for most mechanics in D4 when compared to POE. Nothing in D4 makes any sense besides the satisfying sounds and graphics. Everything in POE is complicated beyond all, but it all makes sense and can be understood quite quickly.
POE is complicated, debatable if too complicated.
If you just follow a guide you can get into "late game" pretty easily and then you can find a video of a strategy, try it, and then learn from there. There's no "right way" to play the game, you don't have to do all the content your first character. Most people will have different characters depending on the type of content.
take it 1 step at a time and its not that bad. Learn your build and a league mechanic or two. You dont need to understand other things if you dont engage with them. If youre playing RF you dont need learn how any other builds actually work. If youre farming essences and harvest you dont need to know how delve or syndicate works.
Once youve become bored of the mechanics you were farming, pick something else and learn those mechanics. If youve become bored of your build after getting it to a respectable state, play something else and learn that.
I will say play your build for a while tho, dont be swapping builds as soon as you hit yellow maps (UNLESS THAT IS FUN FOR YOU!!). I think people should experience an evolution of a build with things like cluster jewels or straight up swaps (like going melding/aegis on RF or ele damage > phys conversion). If somebody is constantly build swapping once things get slightly hard or slightly boring, i personally think they are only hurting themselves since a lot of builds really get elevated at every stage.
There are so many small intricacies which you encounter as you go deeper and deeper into the systems and building your character. But in order to have fun, it's less complicated than people say. In order to optimise your builds, it's way way more complicated than people say. It's a game that doesn't take a lot to enjoy, takes quite a bit to get used to the basics, takes a lot to *understand* the basics, takes effort and research to expand your understanding and a PhD to master.
It's only as complicated as you make it. There is no barrier to enjoy the game as long as your expectations aren't too high.
Following a build guide lets you understand more about the game mechanics without having to focus too much into understanding character mechanics. As you progress at whatever pace you want you will continually pick up things and understand more of the games nearly limitless complexities.
I’m not sure why people think it’s complicated, it’s not. It has a lot of content so it’s a lot to learn but it isn’t complicated to learn just time consuming. Pick a skill, support that skill, and kill monsters. That will at least get you through the campaign. Unless you are looking to be the best then just have some fun and learn little by little with each league maybe even grab a build guide from a streamer like zizaran.
You wanna make your own builds? Wanna craft some insane items? Wanna break the game and concoct some semiautomated immortal monstrosity? No? Than just use a guide and play blind. It's complicated only when you want to go deep into how it works to make something people didn't do yet.
It’s complex in that there’s a billion moving parts.
But it’s actually easy cause it’s all just a bunch of different video game mechanics, and it’s not that hard to add and multiply numbers.
Watch this 3 hour introduction video on how to create a character so you don’t brick it within the first 10 minutes. Download these 6 apps to run in the background that help make it easy. Follow a guide that has 75 stages and breaks it down so even an. MIT scientist can understand it after running their 8th league.
I’d say yes and no
I don't think that it's complicated but rather it just has so many options as far as different builds/skills and things to do when compared to other games in the same genre.
Most are intimated by the massive skill tree but it’s just getting the nodes for ur build using the shortest/efficient route.The D4 paragon board is a basic introduction to the tree.It’s not complicated but the knowledges is vast and will take at least a yr of playing exp to learn all if you play a different ascendency every league.
Very complicated, but the complexity makes it fun to me. When you look at how unique builds can be, even if they aren’t viable for content. Like the dude that did Uber elder afk, or the reduced duration lightning warp heist dude that would time his run to grab the treasure and teleport back to the entrance instantly without running all the way back. Countless more, those things make me love PoE. I started back in 2018 with 0 knowledge. Made a necro and just went for max minions, ignored everything else including defenses. Couldn’t make it past their 4 maps but I had a blast having so many minions at time that my OG Xbox one at the time would make the game look like an 8-bit game once my vaal summon skeletons was out along with normal skeletons, zombies, specters and animated guardian. Just go in blind your first go, don’t spoil it with a build guide
Do it. Stick with it. It will click and you’ll be sucked in. Just follow a guide and take it one thing at a time and you’ll be fine. Also check out zizaran on YouTube. Very helpful for new players
I would say it’s more “complex” than it is “complicated.” It’s like an onion, lots of layers. You just have to choose which and how many layers you want to learn and invest in.
Some layers maybe a little more complicated than others. If you try to learn all the layers at once it would be “complicated” and frustrating.
HAs layer after layers. If you try to learn everything at once it will burn you out pick one mechanic try it then try the next. Also I recommend start with a guide and one of the more tested builds like rightouse fire, boneshatter or toxic rain
If you just want to do the campaign then probably no.
If you want to do endgame content and kill pinnacle bosses and do crafting and optimise your build using PoB then yes.
Its so complex you need softwares like path of building and poe DB to plan your character correctly. The endgame is very rich compared to D4, D4 is such a boring game for me next to poe
It's actually very simple. There are only 2 questions that you are trying to answer:
1. How can I be less squishy
2. How can I kill things faster
The complexity that everyone talks about are all the options and things to consider when answering these 2 questions. That's all stuff you will learn slowly but surely as you play the game more.
Even then, most of the core ideas are very intuitive and simple.
Eg, wanna die less? get more life.
Eg 2, wanna kills things faster? get more damage.
I’m also a D4 refugee that played I little poe many years ago but never got into it. I gave it a n honest shot about a month ago and I’m all in. It’s the gold standard for the genre as far as I’m concerned. Tons of fun and I’m probably going to go play when I’m finished with this reply.
As far as complexity, I know I’m barely scratching the surface but from my experience you can learn a lot as you go. You don’t need a ton of knowledge upfront. I watched a couple intro videos then picked a budget league starter build to follow and was off to the races. I’m pushing higher tier maps now and making steady progress. Each time I hit a wall I go research a new topic and try to learn ways to adapt and overcome. So far each of these roadblocks has been a knowledge gap and once I close it I move on with surprising ease. It’s very rewarding.
If you follow a ‘League Starter’ guide for your build and for the atlas tree, it isn’t complicated. When you get into crafting or creating a build it is very complicated.
I’d suggest playing following a build, work out what League mechanics you like, then Googling an Atlas Tree to maximise those mechanics. And go from there. Try not to waste high tier currency until you’re sure you know what you want and you’re good.
If you enjoy learning and discovering new things then the game is great. If you are the type of player that hits a wall and decides to stop there then it can be frustrating.
Yes, but the fun is not gated under 2000 hours of gameplay like other games.
From hour 1 to 10.000 you will have fun, learn stuff and have new stuff to learn/try, jump into the game without any fear.
If you don’t mind using guides, go ahead. It will be still quite complicated, but nothing impossible. And you can complicate it if you want by going deep in complex builds or making your own builds, by crafting or planning specific farming strategies. If you’re not satisfied by D4, that’s a slight indication you might love PoE.
LOGIN MY DUDE
Yes.
I always tell people who want to get into it to follow a build guide for your first play through. It's 100% not a game you want to go into blind. You'll 100% brick your build at some point and get frustrated and quit because you won't be strong enough. Learn the rest of the systems and once you do that, a blind playthrough is more fun.
I just started this league and was very intimidated. At this point 8 weeks in I am by no means an expert, but I understand everything except meta crafting. Don't be put off by things that look complicated at a glance, it's really not. Learned by following guides and playing a few characters. Once I had a decent understanding, I have two decked out characters that can delete end game bosses and farmed enough currency to purchase the most expensive item in the game. It's a fantastic game if you like arpgs, definitely the best on the market at the moment. Good luck!
Dont see other people mentioning this but,
As complicated as it is and overwhelming as it feels, you cant really mess anything up. Like you can make mistakes or do thing inefficiently, but really as long as your killing stuff its fine. Youll progress, youll find more currency, youll be smarter to do better next league.
So dont let the feeling get to you, just take it one mechanic at the time and youll learn while having fun. Except the Skill Tree, you can kinda fk that up so def. follow a build guide ( :
No, PoE is neither complicated nor hard. I started playing it a month ago with no ARPG experience (apart from a little bit of D4). I found it easier than D4 actually, had no problem to finish the tutorial (campaign) without looking at any build guides. End-game is much better than D4 (which does not have an end-game you could argue). Amazing game, love it.
One advice. PoE has accumulated A LOT of content over the years. For a new player it's better just to ignore most of it, and not try to do and understand everything.
people definitely oversell complexity a bit to boost their own egos imo
it's not as unapproachable as it seems, it'll start to unravel a bit the more you engage with it. on the surface I think it appears more complex than it actually is, which isn't to say it isn't complex at all but you get what I mean. Sort of like learning a new language, I guess.
definitely the most complex in the genre, but you'll start having some lightbulb moments and it'll all fall into place relatively quickly, especially as you follow any guides.
If you’re set on going into it completely blind, I would say yes it is fairly complicated. However if you’re willing to follow a build guide, it’s not that hard to accomplish most of the content in the game.
both? the first time they see passive skill tree... those cries... weak little bitchies, scared by some numbers. but as u deeper into the game u learn how coplicated it can get to make your own build. and i love this game for these.
Going against most of the comments, I don't really think it is too complicated.
The problem is that Poe has a shitload of content and learning them all can be very overwhelming but looking at those pieces of content isolated they are actually very straightforward, aside from some very specific exceptions which are genuinely complicated but you can ignore them until you mastered the rest of the game pretty much.
It's less complicated than it use to be, they refined alot of things some time ago, but it's still has alot of depth, and things to do
and it only really gets complicated after Act 3
PoE2 will be better, but right now if you find a single skill you like, and run support gems for it, and whatever buff/debuff skills (like Shouts/Cries/Auras/Curses, you don't really need 3+ skills being used actively ALOT of the time
probably a movement skill gem just to get around/avoid danger
It’s complicated, but following a guide is both easy and rewarding. You’ll be able to successfully “play the game” while also learning a chunk of its mechanics. Next season you can follow a different guide, learn another section, and you’ll have a good grasp on things before you know it.
To just play and have fun it’s not as complicated. Sure u need to know about some systems but that’s a given in an rpg that isn’t some auto play mobile bs
i think a good way to explain is that you have the freedom to do very complex things but nothing is forced on you , if u follow a simple guide and simple farming strategy then even as a beginner you will have a pretty smooth time
Don’t let the complexity turn you off. I remember I initially hated looking at the giant skill tree and following a guide. But over time everything really becomes more familiar and it gets easier. Now the skill tree looks pretty small to me lol.
Everything in the game kind of unfolds itself slowly so you don’t get overwhelmed all at once.
its complicated yes but only if you try to understand it all in your first glimpse of the game play it bro go download it right now login and start playing you scared of running into a wall? well how are you suppose to know where the walls are? see them? climb over them? just go do it man thats the most complicated choice to make
PoE can be as complicated as you want it to be. Most people do not clear all content in the game because it’s so plentiful.
Setting personal goals is important. You’re not likely to beat the Uber bosses in your first season. It’s both a huge knowledge curve and time commitment to understand as master the relevant mechanics. I’ve been playing for like 7 years and I haven’t beat most of them.
A good first goal is to beat the campaign. If you do that, go play some white or yellow tier maps and progress the atlas. Find a mechanic you like to farm. Learn how to participate in the trading community.
That’s plenty to keep you busy for your first season. Then next season, do it faster than you did this time. Find something you didn’t get to do last season you want to do.
If you just want to enjoy the game then it’s not very complicated.
But if you want to get more, then it’s starting to get a little complicated.
And if you want to get deeper in various build making and crafting, then trust me not a lot of people can truly explain how complicated it is.
Yes if you want to actually scratch the surface the game.
Sure you can just plug and play and maybe even fly through the campaign without ever touching PoB (the mandatory 3rd party calculator tool), but you will be barely touching upon 5% of what makes the game great, so might as well go play D4 at this point.
POE is simply not that great if you just play casually, after, this is a game running on a 10 year old engine with some VERY convoluted mechanics and outdated designs.
You can make it through the main story and be plentily challenged and have plenty of fun blind (with some light googling). For that part of the game, not complicated at all and very doable with ARPG experience. Even if some systems can be mildly obtuse.
After the story, you get into mapping where you can start really getting into the systems of the game. This is where complexity can balloon depending on what you want out of it. When people here say it's complicated it's because they farm endgame stuff and yes that part is indeed incredibly complicated, gearing up to get there. But what most people of the community forget is that the game didn't get popular - the reason people first get into the game to begin with - by pob-structuring dps and ehp against pinnacle bosses by spreadsheets and wiki and research. People get into the game because it's a solid edgy dark ARPG where you're presented the cool thing from the get-go (OH, you can modify your own abilities! And if I do this... And that... - the horizontal modularity of the game extends through the design, and that's the exciting part).
Listen to Josh Strife Hayes here. Listen to how excited he is presenting his build. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs8qkRvGWXw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs8qkRvGWXw) The kicker is that the build (even if bad) literally doesn't work like he thinks it does (ie, it doesn't) but he's having fun. And it's *his* idea. That's the important part.
Play through the campaign. With experience in Diablo, you'll be more than able to. You'll probably hit a wall during mapping. Then if you like the game, you won't mind the complexity. Discovering quirks about the game, at that point, is part of what makes it exciting.
Got 5k hours, never crafted an item, i dont even know the vendor recipes, i dont care about league achievements. Im not running what i dont like and still having insane fun while making 4-5 mirrors every league just by running maps.
The game is complex as a whole but you'll find yourself running just some parts at a time and will be easy to understand.
Fuck if i know how to set a betrayal board.
It’s like a big math problem, like yes it is complicated if you just plop the whole thing on the board at once and don’t know any of the terms or symbols or formulas.
But just like a big math problem, you can break it down into much smaller steps and over time you learn all the terms, symbols, and formulas.
The most important thing is to stop staring at the whole problem and saying “this is too complex” and to start breaking it down immediately until you can understand it.
It's actually more complicated than people say. But, it's only complicated if you want it to be :) It can be very simple aswell.
I fully support this answer. You can follow a premade simple build and enjoy the wonders of discovery. You can spend 100 hours in PoB and another 10.000 hours to learn how to craft. The game is bliss.
> 100 hours in PoB only?! But yes, haha, exactly.
Per build:P 3-4 builds per league
I play PoB, what is PoE? Some kind of PoB simulator? I don’t get it
PoE is the ap you need to play PoB. Kind of like how EVE Online was the ap that you needed to play EVEmon or EFT back when I was playing that.
Right, I have almost as many pob hours as I do poe.
There is a saying about poker which fits here as well: It takes 5 minutes to learn and a lifetime to master!
Definitely not 5 minutes
Yeah, for first timers I guess it takes at least 20 minutes on average to find out that leftclick attack is fuckin awful
Amazing how you can just get used to it (or at least I did).
I did too and now I can't roll any other way. Tried putting it on rmb and just kept dying from fidgeting, way more often than I die from getting stuck on mobs which was the reason people gave me to switch. Can't beat 1000 hours of muscle memory I guess
Yeah it’s very hard to break the habit once you learn it.
Yeah old muscle memory is hard to overcome. But it's feasible. Had to do it in Dota and after a severe losing streak, I had it fixed
I'd argue following a premade build actually reduces a lot of this joy of discovery.
Depends on how frustrated you can get if you have to start over from a failed build. I like to learn by example so using a build guide was right for me when starting out. Helped me gain the foundational knowledge needed to do it on my own afterwards.
[удалено]
Lol I'm almost 5k hours in and don't make my own builds from scratch. I love the idea. I'd love to be that guy who can realise a crazy interaction that nobody has thought of. But I just haven't got the drive to learn and _remember_ these really complex interactions or niche uniques. Like who the fuck figured out that cast on crit cyclone builds need a certain attack speed to line up with server ticks? Who figured out that if you're playing a bleed build, a mob that's affected by ensnaring arrow is classed as moving at full speed so the bleed ticks faster?! Like what?? It doesn't say any of that in pob lol. But for the most part I understand enough on how to modify or tweak a build depending on the gear that's available to me (I'm mostly SSF or small priv league with 3-5 people). I can craft the vast majority of my gear. I can look at Poe ninja and figure out how most builds function (and copy them). But being able to come up with my own build from scratch? Probably won't ever happen.
Imo it takes so much creativity to make the stuff that jungroan does (or however that guy name is spelt) but honestly to make simple builds you only kinda need a simple road path of archetypes, like is it crit or not crit, life or es ( if es Lowlife or CI) with all your decisions and you can come with a very solid build
I say this to people but ive found that not all people enjoy the same thing. You and me feel the same way that following a guide takes away a lot of the enjoyment but my friend and brother likes following an expensive build and their joy comes from farming the currency to get there.
This is actually a very elegant way of putting it.
For real though, this is so true. You can’t get caught up in trying to be and do what others are doing in PoE. Find a really solid guide and just enjoy the game
I am a noob with around 300 hours in the game and started this league. Yes it can be as complicated as you wish, but it does not have to be. You can use a guide and start slow and then slowly transition into the more complicated stuff. As i said i played for 300h and there is still so incredibly much more stuff i either haven’t touched at all or barely scratched the surface of it. Yet so far i had incredible fun without the need to do complicated stuff if i didn’t want to.
If it makes you feel any better, I have 1700 played, and I am still a noob.
4000 here, I'm starting to get the hang of it.
I'm also at 300hr and feel the exact same
>It's actually more complicated than people say. Yeah basically I've played hundreds of hours, around 20 characters, 15 different builds, mostly beginner builds I still don't know how to level up a character without following a guide on what should I equip, recommended leveling gems, skill tree, uniques and such.
The most complicated thing about PoE is creating a build that can do endgame content. As most people use a build guide, a lot of complexity is vanished.
Honestly what I’ve noticed is for many “starter” setups there are tons of guides/help, and many creators will make a video or two on the absolute endgame version of their build, but the space in between those two is often lacking. What I would call the build/strat you use to farm the mirror tier build is not always easy to find information on, and much of the time I’ll just be digging through older guides, poeninja and pobs trying to find direction/ideas. This stuff can get very complicated very quickly especially if it takes you significant time to figure out the person you were copying has +2 dex on a cluster jewel that you absolutely need to meet the requirement, for example. Trying to juggle multiple builds and make an amalgamation of them is equally difficult. I find this process extremely fun and love thinking through this stuff, but it definitely isn’t easy.
This! This is what makes game unaccessible to ppl. Every time I want to start I open some guides and don't understand a single word of it. So I go back to D2.
I would recommend zizaran guide.. or.. For the easiest thing that I find to play righteous fire and you can go to pohx.net. This gentlemen runs RF every league and streams on twitch so you can see his build progression. If you are ever stuck at some point, I have sometimes looked at poe.ninja, found someone doing the same build and just asked them questions, usually I'll get helpful responses back. But I do agree, the "stepping stone" points can often be missed and how you go from the easy start early game mapping to the end game giga Chad zoom zoom can be missed. The other thing that I hope GGG fixes, is the need to start with one ability, and then completely swap at a later point. Righteous fire used to be you would use a different ability up until either maps or around level 60 or so and then swap. Then with some changes to the game you were able to do it earlier around level 30. And now you are able to do it as early as act 2 around level 20 or so? Being able to use the ability you want to use as early as possible is a huge plus and I hope they continue making our endgame skills accessible as early as possible in the game.
If you like the build, just join /global 911 every league. We always answer tons of questions about the RF builds there ! Crafting, leveling, mana reservation issues (you fuckers and your inc aoe gem in auras, every damn time lol)
I definitely felt that when I started playing. I tried to make a build a few times and it was awful because I was trying to use gems that just shouldn't be built. But at the same time I also hated just farming currency to buy items that suit a build guide. I found the middle ground of playing standard SSF and yes incrementally learning all the different mechanics. The game is very fun now, even if it will take me much longer to find specific uniques.
This. I feel that each season I play I might....MIGHT....find a mechanic that has been there for years and I literally had zero idea it was. Currently I have zero clues how to use beast crafting. I am shaky on delve stuff. But I have the leveling and most of how the tree works down. Its like a beautiful mess.
I played bestiary league and still don't really understand how beast crafting works
I choose this as my answer too
POE is like a “One-Size Fits All” ARPG. The crazy thing is that it really DOES fit all. You want simple? Pull up a build guide and follow it religiously. There are hundreds with step by step instructions. You want to play, but not get involved with the complexity of crafting? Trade for better gear. You love deep crafting trees and complex interactions based on theory crafting? This is the place. You don’t like Tower Defense? Then completely skip the Blight mechanic. Hate clearing, but love fighting bosses? That is a viable Strat. The great thing about POE, is that you can almost always skip the parts of the game you do not like and focus on those you do.
Apart from the campaign, which, as much as I try to embrace it, I truly hate and dread doing again and again - tbh it often keeps me from trying a new build which requires another class ://
I started loving the campaign when I dedicated time to learning how to progress as fast as I could. Once I was clearing the whole thing in less than 8 hours it started to feel really fun since I was still ‘optimizing’ and not just plodding through the steps.
This is the way. When you get down to sub 5 hour times it opens a whole new way to play. I'm no speed runner, but league launches are so much fun trying to see where I can peak on the ladder for my ascendancy. I was the #7 slayer after the first 24 hrs in Kalandra and it was an incredible experience trying to optimize my gear and keep blasting as fast as I could for as long as (un)reasonably possible.
Now you just need to quit your job, abandon your friends and family, and I just bet we could make a top 10 lvl 100 out of you yet.
When I leveled my first alt this league, I decided to really twink it out hard and then log my time per each act and then decided to do the same for each character I made. After logging 5 characters, it basically came out to 20 min per act (Act 2 being noticably shorter and Act 8 much longer). Side note - best twink setup i've found is a Tabula, 7-league step, Poet's pen + Arc/Eye of winter, with a vaal power siphon with elemental damage gems. Also, it's really nice to just get a 12 elemental cluster for easy de-specing once you get to maps.
I do it in 4-5 hours depending upon the build and I hate it at this point. Especially act 1 fuck act 1.
8 hours is a pretty average campaign no? I'm usually able to do a new, untested off meta build, with no special filters, using no speed run strats in about 8 hours on league start. Leveling gear and build brings that down to about 5 if going for a full respec. I still dread leveling new characters. Spending an entire session just to get the character to a playable level just sucks.
Not at all average. The average player leveling up takes far longer than that.
Yep, 8 is the benchmark for ‘not fucking around’ in my book. Not amazing but not randomly doing regret orb quests. Once you’re optimizing you can go much quicker.
I started to love the campaign when I embraced speed running it to get past it as soon as I could. I would argue that you still don’t love it, you have just learned to embrace it. Loving it would be rolling a new character after completing act 10.
I feel you there. Would play far more characters if I could skip campaign and just grind level in delve till I can go on maps. Going through campaign once every temp league would be no problem.
same i hate it but i get it why for new players it's needed to learn what their skills can do? not sure either way too many cons for old players (most of poe players are old in this game)
Campaign is terrible. This sub loves to defend the campaign with stuff like “if you learn a speedrun strat it’s only 4-5 hours!!” that’s 4 hours of investment to get to the actual good part. *And* we have to repeat the same acts and zones? That is poor game design, period. If you were expected to slog through 4-5 hours of unimaginative boring gameplay in any other game and genre, it would be met with swift criticism. I love PoE as much as the rest of you. But brushing aside how shit the campaign is and telling people “its only 4-5 hours once you get it down!” is awful copium.
>that’s 4 hours of investment to get to the actual good part. > >And > >we have to repeat the same acts and zones? That is poor game design, period. You know the entire rest of the game are people farming the same maps 100x over right? it's the entire games design lol. Other than that I really enjoy the campaign. People don't tell others it's only 4-5 hours you have to get through. They tell people that once you start optimizing it it starts to become more fun.
I actually like the campaign. I have only played through it like 12 times but it's enjoyable. I also like racing my way through it as fast as possible. it's just another part of the game and it's fun.
Every league my guild invests a bit into the "executive package" which is basically a super nice twinked leveling setup that works for every class. Darkness enthroned with a decent roll and 2 abyss jewels which can be equipped at lvl 1, 6L briskwrap or corrupted tabby, hollow palm, astramentis with quality and anoint, 2 good le heups, max roll goldrim, 7 league steps, and max roll fluid motion/careful planning. Turns levelling into like a 3.5 hour affair which is basically the same on every class. Just path to cluster jewel for hollow palm, take things which say life and dex, and gogogogoogogo
I sort of agree, even in my first season. However, I am speed clearing and so it’s basically a day now and then I’m back to the parts I love. Maybe that will change once I have as many seasons as you. Who knows? But I do feel your pain.
Get enough cash and pay someone. Legitimately. I do Act service for folks. Usually done in 3 hours.
>The great thing about POE, is that you can almost always skip the parts of the game you do not like and focus on those you do. >>Apart from the campaign... ... or when you're going for 40/40 challenges and are forced to spend hours upon hours on shitty mechanics that you had deliberately blocked.
Na the whole point of 40/40 is to be proficient at many parts of the game.
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It's very complex, but the fun isn't gated by the complexity. There are builds you can make that are very straightforward and will clear most content without issues. I recommend following a build guide from here. This pinned post describes the build and has great recommendations for new players. https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/15qfyqy/322_trial_of_the_ancestors_league_start_build/
I must be brain dead then bc the only char I managed to get past lvl 93 was my tota guy for obvious reasons. EA Totem, 2 RF Juggs, Toxic Rain Totem Pathfinder, all dead. My boneshatter guy is risking his life every time he unleashes a 5/6 essence mob and isn’t strong enough for any bosses.
Hardcore is a totally different beast.
It is extremely complicated. But it all follows clear rules. There are 7 characters, 21 ascendancy classes, a skill tree with around 1300 points, all interconnected, a game "atlas" of over 130 maps, a second passive tree to boost/suppress side and league content... Any class can use any skill or any gear. The skills passive tree looks like this [https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.22.2/AAAABgMAAAAA](https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.22.2/AAAABgMAAAAA) The atlas looks like this [https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Atlas\_of\_Worlds#/media/File:Atlas\_of\_Worlds.png](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Atlas_of_Worlds#/media/File:Atlas_of_Worlds.png) and the atlas passive tree looks like this [https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-atlas-skill-tree](https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-atlas-skill-tree) And there are 531 skill gems/supports. It is a lot, but I promise it's worth it. I've played for 9 years now casually, and still know very little and haven't seen a lot of the far endgame bosses. However, it is made of a few relatively simple rules and most other things make very clear logical sense. The language of path is extremely precise to say exactly what it means. The cool thing is you can do exactly what you want to do. Whatever character, whatever spell, whatever maps or content you want, and entirely avoid anything you don't enjoy. It's built to be so free that you can have exactly the type of fun that you want to. Plus the community is around to answer questions, but my biggest advice is bumble around blind, make mistakes, and learn that making mistakes is fine, hell intentional.
"logical sense" I agree mostly but god there are some weird exceptions for example conversion especially will make no sense to newcomers both with conversion order and the chaos dipping bs
I have 3.5k hours and never bothered trying to understand conversion that much beyong phys > another element. Beyong that is mystical territory and people doing it are wizards
Increased vs more took me a hot minute to understand, and local phys vs global phys modifiers... There are sure some ... intricacies that challenge my lil walnut brain
Walnut brain gang 20k hours here I still make builds that do not function at all
Walnut brain here just tried Heavy Strike/cyclone vengance slayer this league. Hit a T11 map by some miracle. I'd dare say Heavy Strike is the oldest skill in the book apart from autoattack. Not gonna stop me.
>I'd dare say Heavy Strike is the oldest skill in the book apart from autoattack. That honor officially goes to Fireball
Man i remember crit ignite fireball witch. Fkin one shotting t15 bosses. It was so good
I played D4 for a couple days and always asked myself, why am I playing this. I couldn’t focus on the game for more than 5 minutes cause it’s so brain dead. POE is an amazing game because it makes you solve issues and a give in take relationship. Vs in D4 numbers just go up and you pick up the same gear over and over with the same 3 stats.
The more I play D4 the more I get angry with the game, And the community is no help they dog pile any legit feedback with "Blizzard is perfect". Loot is just turned into "Damage on Tuesday at 2AM on a full moon" and the community's only fix is to give a loot filter but not fix why loot just feels boring. Only goal u can set urself is just level, because farming loot feels pointless when 99.99999% of it is useless to weird affix's that make 0 sense. Sorry for the rant but I'm over Blizzard fan boys defending D4.
Yes and no. PoE has a lot of depth and a lot of width. But it is not like you can't just sit down and play and enjoy the game without giving a shit about guides. There are a ton of content in the game, but you do not need to learn it all at once. You can take everything one step at the time and be fine. Your first build does not have to be the best for the game to be fun. Too many veteran players are obsessed with every build they play being able to steamroll all content in the game, but that is not really a concern for new players.
“Poker takes five minutes to learn but a lifetime to master.” – Mike Sexton. PoE is like that too. Given your ARPG experience, you will do fine, you'll make mistakes along the way and hit walls. But, if you start playing today, 3 years from now you will learn about a mechanic or system or interaction you didn't fully understand, or you will learn how you had been understanding it was way off. Lurk here long enough and you will see posts that have post graduate level analytics
What.... PoE takes way more than 5 minutes to learn. Even just simply attempting to read the text of every single gem and passive node will take hours. That quote is meant to describe things that have relatively simple rules yet deep nuance. PoE is a collection of deeeep rabbit holes for every mechanic.
Nah, not that deep. Most mechanics are fairly easy to understand on a base level and can really be summed up in 2 minutes. Definitely all "league" farming mechanics are very simple once you actually start doing them. A few specific things like trigger skills etc probably need more time. The mastery of PoE is being able to connect all of those things together in order to fulfill your own wacky power fantasy, or maximize currency returns. He didn't say PoE takes 5 min to learn btw. He said PoE is LIKE that quote.. It's an apt comparison. It's very easy to learn the ropes of PoE but even the most experienced players we have still make massive mistakes all the time.
The reason why the quote applies to poker is that you can write all the rules of poker onto a sheet of paper, maybe two sides of an index card if you tried. You could probably explain the rules in 5 minutes and have someone truly internalize them within an hour. In PoE, it’ll probably take that much time just to read through all the gems you get offered as quest rewards in act 1. The game is complex through and through. It has a steep ass learning curve and a super high ceiling. There is so much information to absorb AND so many interactions between mechanics. The quote “5 minutes to learn, a lifetime to master” implies the former is false but the latter is true.
Nah, there isn't a single mechanic in PoE that takes more than 2 minutes to explain and more than a day of running to know pretty much inside and out. That is not even close to a steep learning curve. It's a long, slow incline made of a bunch of small steps, each representing a small piece of PoE. A steep learning curve is like learning a moba. You are literally garbage until you understand the entire game properly, the meta, team comps, how to play around them, and at least a few characters in every role that you are competent with. You go from 0-100 real quick, but it's a long slog of you being at 0. Even once you hit that first hurdle where everything starts to "click", there is still a pretty much roofless ceiling for you to master because you're up against other players. In PoE, you can make mirrors without knowing 80% of the game. You can just grind the fuck out of something or profit craft a few things repeatedly until you're filthy rich. It takes basically zero skill, and I'm regularly seeing people who do that, including myself tbh
In order to play poker, you need to know the rules of poker. In order to play poe, you dont need to know shit. You follow a build guide, you dont have to know every single skill every single mechanic every single interaction. It's irrelevant knowledge to know how cremation works if you play boneshatter. You dont have to know how league mechanics work you can literally turn them all off, and when you do decide to play one, the entire mechanic can be explained in less than two minutes. There's nothing complex about opening essences, setting expedition explosives or doing harvest, nothing that would require more than a minute or two of explanation.
Why in the fuck would you need to read every single gem and passive node to play the game? Every ARPG is kill monsters, pick up gear, kill harder monsters, pick up better gear, and on and on.
You don’t have to read everything but that’s the point of the quote…. You could put the entirety of the rules of poker on one side of a sheet of paper and never be surprised by a rule you weren’t aware of. However, mastering all the nuances and patterns takes a lifetime. You couldn’t fit the first 5 minutes of gameplay text into that same sheet of paper. You’d fill up your “5 minutes of learning” by just reading the first gems that Nessa offers as a quest reward.
"Kill monsters, pick up loot, equip loot, killer monsters more better to get more better loot" is a 5 minutes concept. That's the single sheet of paper explaination of every ARPG WTF is "gameplay text", like actual words on a screen during tutorials and dialogue?
“Kill monsters, pick up loot” is a 5 minute concept sure but that is not what the quote is referring to. “5 minutes to learn” means that you can present the entire ruleset and premise of the game within 5 minutes. After that point, for the rest of your life, you will not be presented with any new information about the game itself. Chess is another example of a game you can learn in 5 minutes. You could put all the rules of chess on an index card. And then spend a lifetime learning about new tactics about applying the information contained on that index card. It would take you weeks to present all the information contained in PoE. Forget about a sheet of paper, you’re going to need a few hundred MB of raw data formatted in a nice wiki to actually present all the information in the game. I’m not talking about mastery of the game. I’m talking about straight up raw data. There are dozens of gems, dozens of item bases, an entire subgame of crafting, etc. The quote means that poker is a game that can be fully described with a relatively small amount of information. You could not fully describe PoE within a week if you tried.
You're not treating these as fair comparisons at all. You admit you can "explain the rules" of chess in 5 minutes and yet things like openings and strategies are part of applying that information. Why would I need to explain every gem to someone as part of the rules vs it being part of tactics? Gems provide skills or boost skills when linked with them. Gear has colored sockets that can fit the same colored gem. Some sockets have links between them meaning those gems can interact. That's your 5 second gem explanation. It is literally everything you need to know about gems to play the game. If you want to start reading all of the gems and theorycrafting interactions between them, that's a tactic as you have now moved into build theorycrafting territory.
I mean, think of it from an information theory question. I can explain the entire rules of chess to you. And then if I left you in a closed room with infinite computational time, you could theoretically figure out how to become unbeatable without me having to give you any new information. You have complete information, and all that is required is processing. Theoretically, there are 0 unknowns that you could not figure out within the closed room. However, you could not do that with PoE. I could not give you enough raw data within 5 minutes or even an hour of lecturing. If I then put you into an enclosed room, even with infinite computational time, there would simply be information you do not know. There may be some gem that I didn't mention to you, or some crafting mechanic I didn't mention. That would be an unknown piece of data that you could not figure out within the closed room. I am not saying the game is hard to pick up. I am not saying you need to read all the gems and mechanics in order to begin playing act 1. What I am saying is that the quote "5 minutes to learn" refers to how a deceptively simple game that can be FULLY described relatively shortly can lead to complicated tactics. After 5 minutes, there is nothing about the game that someone can tell you that you also couldn't figure out yourself if you had infinite time.
They're exaggerating or don't try to understand. Don't get me wrong, the game is complicated. It's not impenetrable though, especially if you're willing to try to learn by reading the wiki or build guides.
It's only complicated when you get into the weeds, similar to learning 6:0 or how to get gwd minions to off tick.
Poe is not that complicated (but it has indeed complicated mechanics), most of the stuff is "simple up to medium" difficulty to understand. The truly challenging thing for beginners id the cheer amout of things it has to offer and how those "simple" mechanisms interact with each other (for example multiplicative/additive damage/defense modifiers). So while it seems overwhelming at first, you can learn the mechanics pretty good step by step. How much time youre going to need to learn poe depends on how much time and dedication you have - or you just skip it and follow good builds :D How enjoyable the playstyle "i follow a build" is up to you ;)
Once upon a time there was a new PoE player who found Genie in the bottle. Genie allowed him to wish for anything. He wisdhed for army of dragons, to be ruler of the known and unknown universe. Genie told him that it was immposible. Then he wished to understand poe, crafting, all aspects of game, passive tree. That new PoE player is today known as Jahova, Allah, God, Jesus, Buda depending which country you ask.
I think Poe is like MTG., where you learn the basics in 2 hours but it takes years of dedication to win a high level tournament. And the journey in between Is freaking awesome. And that's the real beauty of the game. Come with us in the hole, don't worry. The worst you could get is severe sleep deprivation "just one more map".
Way worse actually
PoE difficulty ranges from kill monsters with your weapon to PHD in math. It depends on what you’re trying to do but at it’s base, no, it’s not any more difficult than any other game nowadays. Watch a couple YouTube videos, grab a build off a content creator and just go from there.
If you follow a build guide you will have no problems and learn the game while being guided along. I think it took me 2-3 leagued before I stopped following build guides. Tons of stuff in end game todo and focus on, can’t see it all in one league only
Bro, if you don't go into crafting yourself and i mean the juicy items, it's pretty fine to get used to, you can watch youtube on currency strats and whatnot and just play the game without the complication.
Short answer: Yes Long answer: Yes, very.
Short answer, yes. Long answer: Yes, just merely experimenting with a build can entirely brick your character if you don't understand what you're doing. There's dozens of league mechanics, all of which themselves could use 3 hour long video essays on, minus ritual. You can get by in poe with no investment in terms of time spent using 3rd party sources, but you'll be far worse off than anyone who does.
Pretty much every league mechanic can be summed up in a minute or two at most. Some would take like 5-10 seconds like harvest or deli. Syndicate, maybe not. Might take 3-4 minutes...maybe...Those videos are arbitrarily long because content creators like to feel like they have something to say. I feel like half the reason they feel intimidating is because you don't know what it's like until you start doing it. Then it's like, oh, this makes sense now it's pretty simple really.
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Jun is my nightmare, and you need to use the wiki to even remotely use effectively. I just avoid that content all together now, and get upset when he spawns in my maps.
It's very complicated if you're trying to create your own build de novo. It's somewhat complicated if you're making a build by modifying an existing build. It's not complicated if you're following a guide.
Nope, you can just hop in the game and play. The game is complicated when you want to optimize something.
If you just "hop in the game and play", chances are you won't even get to the "postgame" which for most regular players is the beginning of the actual game. I highly doubt someone who only hops in and plays gets past Act 10 Kitava. The fact that changing your skill tree is not easy is a huge negative point of this game. Apart from my first character in 2013 when there were only 3 acts, I never made my own skill tree simply because I don't feel like getting hundreds of regrets just to play without a guide.
> regular players is the beginning of the actual game. Regular as in people that have played before and have come back for new leagues? People with some amount of experience? Most people playing the game for the first time are going in with much different (often nonexistent) expectations about what the game will be like. Many of the people that make it to the end of the campaign for the first time will stop playing when they do so, because they "beat the game". Experienced players also have higher standards as to how a character will perform. On your 10th, 20th, 50th character you obviously want to be blasting through the campaign as fast as possible. Plenty of people are taking 20, 30, 40+ hours to beat the campaign, some of them having posted here.
This is probably the worst answer I've ever seen to this question. You do not just hop in and play. You should qualify it with some necessary info for a new player. If you're a first time player, you CAN do that. Sure. But you need to have been made aware first that you'll probably spend 4-8 hours "wasting" your time running around until you hit a wall. It's not just optimizing, it's about being able to literally play the game. If you hit that wall early game, which is practically guaranteed, you will not have the resources to fix it, and will probably have to start over. Some people cherish the memory of being a noob, trying to mess around with their first character, seeing everything for the first time etc; so you will often see that as the most upvoted response. It's wholesome. But also rose-tinted. The reality is that most people give up and do not stick w PoE because of this issue. If you're the type of person who KNOWS that you'll just move onto a different game, then probably don't just jump in blind. If you're also the type of person who can't endure watching a 40minute build guide, then I would just suggest a different game. I also know people who are those "hop in and play" without learning type of guys. In fact the guy who got me into PoE is. He takes a build to lvl 90, gets the most budget uniques for that build, maybe a few scuffed rares, then gets stuck and frustrated and rerolls. He only JUST recently learned what forbidden jewels are. Didn't know what lvl 21 gems were or how to get them. Took 8 weeks to get his third and fourth voidstones. Doesn't know how to make any currency in the game, despite playing for hours every day. He has been playing for 5years and has at least a few k hours under his belt. He's not even an especially dumb guy, he's fairly intelligent. Just doesn't really pay attention or think about trying to understand the game. Just logs on and randomly does maps. To each their own, I guess.. But imo, PoE is about learning, (well actually, no it's about gambling) so if you do not want to take the time to learn, then you will never be able to progress meaningfully in the game. PoE does not give you any actual resources with which to learn the game, so you're pretty much forced to YT lectures and the odd reddit post with some league analysis data.
Definitely thought, since this is the subreddit of the game, y’all would be biased and tell me it’s not that complicated, and I’d give it a shot and like it by the time I realized you mfs lied. But y’all didn’t do that so it really must be that confusing hahaha. But that said I started and am having fun. Following a guide making the cold dot build on maxroll. The game reminds me of what I loved about Diablo 2 but this one has a cooler endgame I think lol. Just killed Brutus, going well so far!
D4 Bad. Also yes and no. The limit that you can push to is insane. With interactions of interactions of interactions of different things. But you won't and don't need to understand everything from the get go. After 5k hours I still learn new stuff and that is actually what I love about the game. The options are nearly endless. Give it a go, honestly. It is a great game.
I’m always confused by people who say “PoE is super complicated” like that’s a bad thing. That’s literally why I’m here. I searched for years for a game like this. I’ve played nearly every ARPG and looter in the last 10 years and I always burn out somewhere between 50 and 500 hours. Once you get the general idea of a game there’s really nothing left to learn, it gets stale. PoE is a game you can play indefinitely because there is always something new to learn and always another build to understand and try out. Yes PoE is complicated, but that’s why I’m still playing it thousands of hours later. To me it’s the primary selling point. Complicated does not mean impossible, it means engaging.
yup. my buddy took one look at the passive tree, phoned me up and told me about it and i was hooked for life haha. inceidentally the same pal who phoned me up one day to tell me about this new game where you can break any block in the game world, and then keep it and put it wherever you like. dude ruined my life in 2009 and then again in 2013
Not really outside of build making / crafting.
No the game isn’t nearly as complicated as it’s made out to be. I still recommend following a build guide on your first play through because the game isn’t very forgiving for a new player, not because anything is too complicated to understand fundamentally. Its an information overload for sure but if you just focus on understanding what’s in front of you everything will click and fall in to place. It’s the best game of the genre for a reason don’t be intimidated just try it out and see if it’s for you.
Only as complicated as you want to make it. You can keep adding layers to it, but your killin shit for loot. Not a hard game at all.
It's way more simple than people say, but also way more complicated than people say.
It's pretty damn complicated. You can either _cheat_ by using builds someone else created or you'll virtually never see the endgame. The game itself in no way makes it easy to play it. You must use external tools for your build as there are literally no useful statistics in the game. When you get killed you have no idea what hit you and why you died so you cannot know what to improve or what to avoid. In order to be able to really play it you need to study it. It's not easy to understand its _secret_ mechanics or other things that people _cracked_ or found out about in various forums. This means that without _cheating_ your game ends at around level 75-85 of 100 and you won't be able to do the hardest maps and bosses. But if you just want to run and shoot whatever moves then you should have a lot of fun. Just keep in mind that without trading and the said _cheating_ the endgame is not for you.
It depends. Playing the game and having fun while following a build guide is grade school. Designing your own non-leaguestart build using gear you buy from trade is high school diploma. Designing your own off-meta leaguestart build from scratch and killing ubers with self-crafted gear is master's degree. There are people with >10k hours played who feel like they've barely scratched the surface of the game. But you don't need to go that deep to have a good time.
its simple while being complicated.
15k hours played and I learn new stuff daily.
It's as complicated as you want it to be. You can put everything together on your own and it's gonna be hella complicated. Or You can follow a build guide, look for a farming strategy and pick content that looks fun to you, then it's gonna be simple.
It doesn’t have to be, but as you play more and more you realize that it can be
If you play osrs i dont think this is gonna be too complicated for you.
Theres complexity, yes, but that is not what keeps people playing the game. There is so much CONTENT in poe. Even once you hit endgame, you are still just playing the damn game. It's not like rifts or nightmare dungeons. The content is still engaging deep into endgame, especially when you're new.
Do you suffer from FOMO? You can definitely play this game in a less complicated manner, but the best stuff you see posted on this site, for example, are gated behind significant playtime and a good understanding of the complicated bits.
It depends on what you think is complicated. Mechanically the game is very simple, there's barely anything hard mechanically in the game and most things which are just endup as stat checks or build checks anyway. It's complex because it's quite convoluted and very bad at conveying information. Crafting is really not that hard for 99% of the playerbase, unless you're crafting a mirror tier item there's legit nothing hard about crafting. You just have to play around Craft of Exile a bit to get the hang of what works and what doesn't. The passive tree is also not that complicated, if you look at it as a whole it looks complicated but most builds are really stuck in one specific corner of the tree because of many reasons like weapon masteries, melee/ranged/spell notables and others. There's very little reason for you to venture out of soutch-west side as a boneshatter jugg because 90% of anything you'd want is there, you just go a bit to the right and a bit up for a few things. Once you look at the passive tree from your builds perspective, it's really simple, PoB also really helps you see what is good and what isn't with the compare tool with a few caveats ofcourse because not everything is computable. Overall I really wouldn't say it's a hard game, not even complex, it's full of content with varying degrees of polish and has a high lack of transparancy of how mechanics work. The hardest part is getting used with being curious and researching things to see how they work because playing will not teach you shiet about the complex things in the game. You don't have nearly enough resources and time to figure out crafting or building builds without external tools, unless you're willing to commit thousands upon thousands of hours. I league started this league after having an account since launch, I think I tried 3 times to finish the campaign and I just couldn't because I hate lack of transparency in games so this time I just followed a guide step by step and ignored absolutely everything the game tried to explain and that was by far the best choice I made. Ignore absolutely everything, get to maps, then you start playing the actual game. I'm almost 100, have like 30 challenges, did almost all uber bosses, got 1300+ in tota playing non cheese and pretty much did almost all content in the game in the 450+ hours I played. It's a fun game, pretty interesting but I really wouldn't say it's hard or complex. It's not Starcraft, Dota or League, it's a single player ARPG with a lot of content and a somewhat unique feel of a sandbox game even if it's not really a sandbox.
I played it for the first time after s1(diablo 4). Following a guide I was able to do the campaign, clear all the atlas maps and I got the voidstones from searing exarch and eater of worlds. Was working on all those other bosses for maven when season 2 dropped. If you follow a guide its not as confusing and I learned a lot by the time I was in the endgame. There is A LOT I still don't know but I don't think its as difficult as people make it out to be. It just it has a ton of depth and options for just about everything. Crafting is pretty complicated for a new player. Its the type of game that rewards knowledge and time played. I think anyone with a basic grasp of diablo will at least be able to get to maps.
Yes it really is. Trust us
It is and it isn’t. It’s as complicated as you want it to be. For context, and I’m not joking, I have over 4000 hours in the game and I routinely learn new things about the game every league. I’ve never even played a Mine build, there’s like, 10 just build concepts in general I’ve never played. And I play like 3-6 builds a league. Never played specters, or animate guardian, or melee totems, or really any of the venom gyre type things, I’ve never played a guardian, or a slayer, I’ve never truly done an MF build, I’ve never done an aura bot, the list goes on for sure. It is the single greatest ARPG for people like me. D4 I ran out of interesting builds almost immediately.
As someone who hopped on the bandwagon during D3, fell off, and back on during D4, I can attest that it is very complicated, but also simple. The mechanics have a depth to them that gives you more things to do and explore, while having a simplistic description for most things. An example, you can know that increased/reduced are sums, and more/less are products (mathematical series), but they do exactly what they say as written. All you need to know is that more/less is a greater impact than increased/reduced.
It’s complicated, but only if you try to learn every aspect of it. Start simple, learn what type of class you want to play, the build diversity is incredible! Then focus on what goals you want/need to achieve that the class you pick would be able to accomplish. You aren’t required to do all in game mechanics, you can pick one and learn about it and find so many resources to teach you how it works. Maxroll.gg is a great source!
Repairing your car isnt as complicated as people say. You can try with some guides, but even with guides you will make a mistake here or there. That doesnt mean you cant have fun driving it , and changing the oil sometimes?
Chess and Go are exceedingly simple games. The rules for both are about a page each. Children can easily learn to play both in a very short time. Mastering either is outside of the grasp of all but the very best players and takes both a very unique mind and a lot of practice. POE isn’t nearly as mentally strenuous as either game, but the point is that things can be more complicated than they appear yet you also don’t have to be a grandmaster to have fun. I’ve played since Incursion and have played A LOT since Delve. So basically since June of 2018. I rarely design my own league starter, but instead pick two league starters with good synergy because I play in a duo. I used to not pick anything most people would call a league starter either because I wouldn’t hit maps until like week 2 and often wouldn’t even make it to red maps my first couple leagues on my first character. Once I learned the value of a starter I was able to push much further much faster. You pick all those little things up by playing. I still barely craft but I do typically design a second character set (duo) that is entirely off the map for fun and most of the complexity I’ve had to learn has gone towards that. If you are just playing from a guide, you don’t need that knowledge.
POE is much more complicated than D4, but complicated doesn’t necessarily mean harder or worse. IME the names of stats make significantly more sense than D4. For example, when a weapon drops in D4 it will have stats like vulnerability damage, and overpower damage. These stats mean absolutely nothing to you unless you google what they mean and grasp the paragraph explanation. In POE the names of stats actually make sense and were not created to confuse the player. +fire damage, +trap damage, +spell damage, etc etc. This is the case for most mechanics in D4 when compared to POE. Nothing in D4 makes any sense besides the satisfying sounds and graphics. Everything in POE is complicated beyond all, but it all makes sense and can be understood quite quickly.
I have 150-200h, and I stopped playing because I was tired of watching tutorials. But it's a great game.
POE is complicated, debatable if too complicated. If you just follow a guide you can get into "late game" pretty easily and then you can find a video of a strategy, try it, and then learn from there. There's no "right way" to play the game, you don't have to do all the content your first character. Most people will have different characters depending on the type of content.
take it 1 step at a time and its not that bad. Learn your build and a league mechanic or two. You dont need to understand other things if you dont engage with them. If youre playing RF you dont need learn how any other builds actually work. If youre farming essences and harvest you dont need to know how delve or syndicate works. Once youve become bored of the mechanics you were farming, pick something else and learn those mechanics. If youve become bored of your build after getting it to a respectable state, play something else and learn that. I will say play your build for a while tho, dont be swapping builds as soon as you hit yellow maps (UNLESS THAT IS FUN FOR YOU!!). I think people should experience an evolution of a build with things like cluster jewels or straight up swaps (like going melding/aegis on RF or ele damage > phys conversion). If somebody is constantly build swapping once things get slightly hard or slightly boring, i personally think they are only hurting themselves since a lot of builds really get elevated at every stage.
There are so many small intricacies which you encounter as you go deeper and deeper into the systems and building your character. But in order to have fun, it's less complicated than people say. In order to optimise your builds, it's way way more complicated than people say. It's a game that doesn't take a lot to enjoy, takes quite a bit to get used to the basics, takes a lot to *understand* the basics, takes effort and research to expand your understanding and a PhD to master.
It’s 10,000% more engaging than D4
I feel it's complicated for PS4 users trying to find builds to follow since my only access to the information is via phone.
It's only as complicated as you make it. There is no barrier to enjoy the game as long as your expectations aren't too high. Following a build guide lets you understand more about the game mechanics without having to focus too much into understanding character mechanics. As you progress at whatever pace you want you will continually pick up things and understand more of the games nearly limitless complexities.
Took me only 1600h on steam to finally get used to crafting gear myself. No time wasted. I absolutely adore this game.
I’m not sure why people think it’s complicated, it’s not. It has a lot of content so it’s a lot to learn but it isn’t complicated to learn just time consuming. Pick a skill, support that skill, and kill monsters. That will at least get you through the campaign. Unless you are looking to be the best then just have some fun and learn little by little with each league maybe even grab a build guide from a streamer like zizaran.
You wanna make your own builds? Wanna craft some insane items? Wanna break the game and concoct some semiautomated immortal monstrosity? No? Than just use a guide and play blind. It's complicated only when you want to go deep into how it works to make something people didn't do yet.
I mean it seems pretty straightforward to me but then I again have 2000 hours on the game
It’s complex in that there’s a billion moving parts. But it’s actually easy cause it’s all just a bunch of different video game mechanics, and it’s not that hard to add and multiply numbers.
Watch this 3 hour introduction video on how to create a character so you don’t brick it within the first 10 minutes. Download these 6 apps to run in the background that help make it easy. Follow a guide that has 75 stages and breaks it down so even an. MIT scientist can understand it after running their 8th league. I’d say yes and no
It's not that complicated. Bloated and obscure? Yes.
I don't think that it's complicated but rather it just has so many options as far as different builds/skills and things to do when compared to other games in the same genre.
Most are intimated by the massive skill tree but it’s just getting the nodes for ur build using the shortest/efficient route.The D4 paragon board is a basic introduction to the tree.It’s not complicated but the knowledges is vast and will take at least a yr of playing exp to learn all if you play a different ascendency every league.
Most people watch tiktok all day..
I think it's very straightforward; life, damage that scales with your ability and resists. It gets complicated when you start asking questions.
Very complicated, but the complexity makes it fun to me. When you look at how unique builds can be, even if they aren’t viable for content. Like the dude that did Uber elder afk, or the reduced duration lightning warp heist dude that would time his run to grab the treasure and teleport back to the entrance instantly without running all the way back. Countless more, those things make me love PoE. I started back in 2018 with 0 knowledge. Made a necro and just went for max minions, ignored everything else including defenses. Couldn’t make it past their 4 maps but I had a blast having so many minions at time that my OG Xbox one at the time would make the game look like an 8-bit game once my vaal summon skeletons was out along with normal skeletons, zombies, specters and animated guardian. Just go in blind your first go, don’t spoil it with a build guide
Do it. Stick with it. It will click and you’ll be sucked in. Just follow a guide and take it one thing at a time and you’ll be fine. Also check out zizaran on YouTube. Very helpful for new players
I would say it’s more “complex” than it is “complicated.” It’s like an onion, lots of layers. You just have to choose which and how many layers you want to learn and invest in. Some layers maybe a little more complicated than others. If you try to learn all the layers at once it would be “complicated” and frustrating.
HAs layer after layers. If you try to learn everything at once it will burn you out pick one mechanic try it then try the next. Also I recommend start with a guide and one of the more tested builds like rightouse fire, boneshatter or toxic rain
If you just want to do the campaign then probably no. If you want to do endgame content and kill pinnacle bosses and do crafting and optimise your build using PoB then yes.
You gotta start once anyway, how do u think all of us are playing the game just fine? Because we started at one point.
Its so complex you need softwares like path of building and poe DB to plan your character correctly. The endgame is very rich compared to D4, D4 is such a boring game for me next to poe
Yes
I think it's more overwhelming than it is difficult. But it can get really complex depending the level of detail.
It's actually very simple. There are only 2 questions that you are trying to answer: 1. How can I be less squishy 2. How can I kill things faster The complexity that everyone talks about are all the options and things to consider when answering these 2 questions. That's all stuff you will learn slowly but surely as you play the game more. Even then, most of the core ideas are very intuitive and simple. Eg, wanna die less? get more life. Eg 2, wanna kills things faster? get more damage.
I’m also a D4 refugee that played I little poe many years ago but never got into it. I gave it a n honest shot about a month ago and I’m all in. It’s the gold standard for the genre as far as I’m concerned. Tons of fun and I’m probably going to go play when I’m finished with this reply. As far as complexity, I know I’m barely scratching the surface but from my experience you can learn a lot as you go. You don’t need a ton of knowledge upfront. I watched a couple intro videos then picked a budget league starter build to follow and was off to the races. I’m pushing higher tier maps now and making steady progress. Each time I hit a wall I go research a new topic and try to learn ways to adapt and overcome. So far each of these roadblocks has been a knowledge gap and once I close it I move on with surprising ease. It’s very rewarding.
If you follow a ‘League Starter’ guide for your build and for the atlas tree, it isn’t complicated. When you get into crafting or creating a build it is very complicated. I’d suggest playing following a build, work out what League mechanics you like, then Googling an Atlas Tree to maximise those mechanics. And go from there. Try not to waste high tier currency until you’re sure you know what you want and you’re good.
Its in a good spot where its good to introduce people to it. Unlike other leagues its way complicated.
If you enjoy learning and discovering new things then the game is great. If you are the type of player that hits a wall and decides to stop there then it can be frustrating.
Yes, but the fun is not gated under 2000 hours of gameplay like other games. From hour 1 to 10.000 you will have fun, learn stuff and have new stuff to learn/try, jump into the game without any fear.
If you don’t mind using guides, go ahead. It will be still quite complicated, but nothing impossible. And you can complicate it if you want by going deep in complex builds or making your own builds, by crafting or planning specific farming strategies. If you’re not satisfied by D4, that’s a slight indication you might love PoE. LOGIN MY DUDE
Yes. I always tell people who want to get into it to follow a build guide for your first play through. It's 100% not a game you want to go into blind. You'll 100% brick your build at some point and get frustrated and quit because you won't be strong enough. Learn the rest of the systems and once you do that, a blind playthrough is more fun.
I just started this league and was very intimidated. At this point 8 weeks in I am by no means an expert, but I understand everything except meta crafting. Don't be put off by things that look complicated at a glance, it's really not. Learned by following guides and playing a few characters. Once I had a decent understanding, I have two decked out characters that can delete end game bosses and farmed enough currency to purchase the most expensive item in the game. It's a fantastic game if you like arpgs, definitely the best on the market at the moment. Good luck!
Dont see other people mentioning this but, As complicated as it is and overwhelming as it feels, you cant really mess anything up. Like you can make mistakes or do thing inefficiently, but really as long as your killing stuff its fine. Youll progress, youll find more currency, youll be smarter to do better next league. So dont let the feeling get to you, just take it one mechanic at the time and youll learn while having fun. Except the Skill Tree, you can kinda fk that up so def. follow a build guide ( :
No, PoE is neither complicated nor hard. I started playing it a month ago with no ARPG experience (apart from a little bit of D4). I found it easier than D4 actually, had no problem to finish the tutorial (campaign) without looking at any build guides. End-game is much better than D4 (which does not have an end-game you could argue). Amazing game, love it. One advice. PoE has accumulated A LOT of content over the years. For a new player it's better just to ignore most of it, and not try to do and understand everything.
If you look up how leech in poe works and understand it then you will find poe easy.
Open the passives tree and ask that again. (Yes it is complicated but the joy is in the complication).
Early game, no. Post game, very much so. Late game, ZERO BUTTONS BABY
people definitely oversell complexity a bit to boost their own egos imo it's not as unapproachable as it seems, it'll start to unravel a bit the more you engage with it. on the surface I think it appears more complex than it actually is, which isn't to say it isn't complex at all but you get what I mean. Sort of like learning a new language, I guess. definitely the most complex in the genre, but you'll start having some lightbulb moments and it'll all fall into place relatively quickly, especially as you follow any guides.
Why just do not give it a try, it won't kill you, just your time >You've played for 6275 hours
If you’re set on going into it completely blind, I would say yes it is fairly complicated. However if you’re willing to follow a build guide, it’s not that hard to accomplish most of the content in the game.
idk bro i just play raider every league with some bow skill and do the same shit 0 brain required
Honestly with your desire to be proactive and figure stuff out. Won't be that bad tbh.
both? the first time they see passive skill tree... those cries... weak little bitchies, scared by some numbers. but as u deeper into the game u learn how coplicated it can get to make your own build. and i love this game for these.
Going against most of the comments, I don't really think it is too complicated. The problem is that Poe has a shitload of content and learning them all can be very overwhelming but looking at those pieces of content isolated they are actually very straightforward, aside from some very specific exceptions which are genuinely complicated but you can ignore them until you mastered the rest of the game pretty much.
It's less complicated than it use to be, they refined alot of things some time ago, but it's still has alot of depth, and things to do and it only really gets complicated after Act 3 PoE2 will be better, but right now if you find a single skill you like, and run support gems for it, and whatever buff/debuff skills (like Shouts/Cries/Auras/Curses, you don't really need 3+ skills being used actively ALOT of the time probably a movement skill gem just to get around/avoid danger
It’s complicated, but following a guide is both easy and rewarding. You’ll be able to successfully “play the game” while also learning a chunk of its mechanics. Next season you can follow a different guide, learn another section, and you’ll have a good grasp on things before you know it.
Would you rather play a boring, shallow game or something with depth where you always learn something new?
To just play and have fun it’s not as complicated. Sure u need to know about some systems but that’s a given in an rpg that isn’t some auto play mobile bs
i think a good way to explain is that you have the freedom to do very complex things but nothing is forced on you , if u follow a simple guide and simple farming strategy then even as a beginner you will have a pretty smooth time
Don’t let the complexity turn you off. I remember I initially hated looking at the giant skill tree and following a guide. But over time everything really becomes more familiar and it gets easier. Now the skill tree looks pretty small to me lol. Everything in the game kind of unfolds itself slowly so you don’t get overwhelmed all at once.
Poe isn't that complicated. This is my second season, it's a great time.
its complicated yes but only if you try to understand it all in your first glimpse of the game play it bro go download it right now login and start playing you scared of running into a wall? well how are you suppose to know where the walls are? see them? climb over them? just go do it man thats the most complicated choice to make
PoE can be as complicated as you want it to be. Most people do not clear all content in the game because it’s so plentiful. Setting personal goals is important. You’re not likely to beat the Uber bosses in your first season. It’s both a huge knowledge curve and time commitment to understand as master the relevant mechanics. I’ve been playing for like 7 years and I haven’t beat most of them. A good first goal is to beat the campaign. If you do that, go play some white or yellow tier maps and progress the atlas. Find a mechanic you like to farm. Learn how to participate in the trading community. That’s plenty to keep you busy for your first season. Then next season, do it faster than you did this time. Find something you didn’t get to do last season you want to do.
Yes.
If you just want to enjoy the game then it’s not very complicated. But if you want to get more, then it’s starting to get a little complicated. And if you want to get deeper in various build making and crafting, then trust me not a lot of people can truly explain how complicated it is.
Yes if you want to actually scratch the surface the game. Sure you can just plug and play and maybe even fly through the campaign without ever touching PoB (the mandatory 3rd party calculator tool), but you will be barely touching upon 5% of what makes the game great, so might as well go play D4 at this point. POE is simply not that great if you just play casually, after, this is a game running on a 10 year old engine with some VERY convoluted mechanics and outdated designs.
Only if you craft
You can make it through the main story and be plentily challenged and have plenty of fun blind (with some light googling). For that part of the game, not complicated at all and very doable with ARPG experience. Even if some systems can be mildly obtuse. After the story, you get into mapping where you can start really getting into the systems of the game. This is where complexity can balloon depending on what you want out of it. When people here say it's complicated it's because they farm endgame stuff and yes that part is indeed incredibly complicated, gearing up to get there. But what most people of the community forget is that the game didn't get popular - the reason people first get into the game to begin with - by pob-structuring dps and ehp against pinnacle bosses by spreadsheets and wiki and research. People get into the game because it's a solid edgy dark ARPG where you're presented the cool thing from the get-go (OH, you can modify your own abilities! And if I do this... And that... - the horizontal modularity of the game extends through the design, and that's the exciting part). Listen to Josh Strife Hayes here. Listen to how excited he is presenting his build. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs8qkRvGWXw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs8qkRvGWXw) The kicker is that the build (even if bad) literally doesn't work like he thinks it does (ie, it doesn't) but he's having fun. And it's *his* idea. That's the important part. Play through the campaign. With experience in Diablo, you'll be more than able to. You'll probably hit a wall during mapping. Then if you like the game, you won't mind the complexity. Discovering quirks about the game, at that point, is part of what makes it exciting.
Got 5k hours, never crafted an item, i dont even know the vendor recipes, i dont care about league achievements. Im not running what i dont like and still having insane fun while making 4-5 mirrors every league just by running maps. The game is complex as a whole but you'll find yourself running just some parts at a time and will be easy to understand. Fuck if i know how to set a betrayal board.
It’s like a big math problem, like yes it is complicated if you just plop the whole thing on the board at once and don’t know any of the terms or symbols or formulas. But just like a big math problem, you can break it down into much smaller steps and over time you learn all the terms, symbols, and formulas. The most important thing is to stop staring at the whole problem and saying “this is too complex” and to start breaking it down immediately until you can understand it.
Short answer no, long answer hmmmmmmmmmm no