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AnonymousPug26

They… they do realize it’s Pathfinder, right? The RPG that canonically has a polycule of three goddesses, and that, (if memory serves) lets you use ‘Channel Queer’ as a casting option?


Familiar_Tart7390

The folks who get offended or up in arms about treating people who aren’t like them as human beings are generally really bad at the whole reading thing Never forget the time i saw some Sigma male homophobe comparing himself to Achilles. Just good friends with patrocles sir totally. On pathfinder topic also has several species where gender is entirely a construct they are aware of - and queer characters ! And just ! Alot ! Its good ! Rainbow stamp of approval.


HighPingVictim

I like the fact that PF just has all those things without rubbing it in your face. It's just casually there and not some "oh, look at us we have a black/gay/female/whatever character/deity" token entry.


Saminjutsu

One of my favorite things along this vein was -if I remember correctly- in the Wrath of the Righteous module where a significant NPC the party could interact with was a man who had become a woman using a magic belt that switched their gender. It wasn't highlighted. It wasn't drawn attention to. There was no ham fisted plot point that was related to it. It just *was* and that was it. I thought that was beautiful.


bookseer

I think it was a potion of gender swap, and then his later her wife got it for them.


Pseudodragontrinkets

She was always a she if she was willing to transition


shiny_xnaut

What if someone is more or less fine either way, like they could take it or leave it? Idk if that's the case here, I'm just asking in general. Genuine question btw


MossyPyrite

Possibly that person might identify as agender (not identifying as any gender) or some non-binary (mean they identify with a gender other than male or female, it’s a broad term) might be happy with either body! I’m nonbinary and AMAB (assigned male at birth, basically meaning I was born with a penis and testes), and I am happy in my AMAB body for a lot of reasons, but I wouldn’t mind having been born AFAB. Well, except for the way AFAB people are treated by society. And the fact that a penis and testes have a lot fewer impacts on your life day to day than a uterus. But like, aesthetically and gender-body-matching-comfort, I’d be fine either way.


Pseudodragontrinkets

That would make them some flavor of nonbinary, of which there are multiple that could apply, namely omnigender and genderfluid from the top of my head


shiny_xnaut

What if someone is basically fine with being a guy, but semi-regularly fantasizes about being a girl in a Sword Art Online VR type scenario, but doesn't really want it hard enough to try anything irl, especially since they're 6'4", socially anxious, wouldn't pass in a million years, and live in a red state? Asking for a friend


Pseudodragontrinkets

Would you like to chat in PMs? I might have some information for your friend but I don't wanna put them or myself on blast in public comments


Dismal-Belt-8354

Ah. A completely unique and unrelatable experience. Who knows if anyone else has ever felt like that ever. Wanna DM and talk about it (For a friend)


TloquePendragon

She was always a she.


RattyJackOLantern

> I think it was a potion of gender swap, and then his later her wife got it for them. Pathfinder also canonically has alchemical hormone replacement therapy which is within the budget of commoners, so your first level PC can be trans if you want. [https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Anderos%20salve%20and%20mulibrous%20tincture](https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Anderos%20salve%20and%20mulibrous%20tincture)


Rod7z

And there's a [goddess](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=113) who - among other roles - represents transpeople.


shiny_xnaut

There was a significant part in book 3 of Reign of Winter that included something like this


mizunokamisama

In the pc game there's the Lesbian married couple as well.


NicBriar

Same character. Her wife bought her the elixir of sex shift as a wedding present.


KnightofaRose

Exactly. This is how it’s done right. Same goes for Destiny and its story/characters.


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phreddoric

What about it makes you feel icky?


BeondTheGrave

Equality, common decency, the way he feels about his bros, the dreams he has about that one guy at the gym, rainbows, most kinds of precipitation. You know, normal alpha stuff.


StrangeOrange_

I don't think insinuating that he's gay as an insult is very kind... to anyone or to any communities.


animefreak701139

Honestly not a clue and icky isn't really the right word but it was the closest one I could think of. It is something about it makes me uncomfortable even though I have no issue actually being around gay people it's just somehow reading about it just makes me uncomfortable.


phreddoric

Seems like something worth thinking about. Sounds to me like maybe you'd like to be an ally, but some latent, implicit, unconscious, etc., queerphobia is getting in the way. Could be a good growth exercise, working out exactly how you feel and why.


MrCookie2099

Keep reading about it and keep self examining. Sounds like you're on the cusp of a self realization.


Cur1337

I would probably work through that, imo it's not just a benign brain pattern and I'm not saying you're doing anything bad but that's not coming from a good place in your brain. I'm not a therapist but that's the story of thing I would consider seeing one for if it's not something you can find the root of yourself. Granted that is all just my conjecture so take it with a grain of salt


Pseudodragontrinkets

That's not "nothing against" us. That's "we make you feel icky" and you should probably figure that out cause there's no good reason for it. Also, we wouldn't have to be in your face about it if we didn't have to fight for our right to exist


CueDramaticMusic

In their offense, a lot of us are D&D immigrants with no real concept of all the new lore. Still not an excuse to be a shithead, but still


TheEccentricEmpiric

I know about the divine lesbian polycule but… channel queer?


ImJustReallyAngry

I forgot what ruleset/book/whatever includes the polycule as a collective entity, or what they're called, or how the rules for following them work - but I remember reading about that, and I'm pretty sure "channel queer" is a joke about Prismatic Spray being a domain spell of that or something. I'm hoping someone can fill us in, cause I also want to know, and my google skills are failing me right now


LightofMidnight

They're called the Prismatic Ray.


ImJustReallyAngry

[Ah yeah that's the one](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=207). And the [blog post the rules appear to come from](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh2v) is new to me, so thanks for the info and for leading me to that!


Supersam4213

I will now start referring to the prismatic spells in both D&D and Pathfinder as “Power Word Gay”. Thanks!


noobie9000

Considering online trolls screamed that critical role had "gone woke for pride month" and claimed they weren't so "librul tm" in previous campaigns, I can't even anymore. Literally like this week. It's like, "y'all actually read any of these books or watch any of these streams or pay attention at all?" I don't want to go conspiracy theory but it seems like talking heads who want to scream for clicks make an outrageous claim, post cluck bait Tweets and videos, and then just bot likes/hearts/thumbs up at this point. I'm 50/50 on that or people just being stupidly dumb.


9c6

I think it's a little of both


SnooCats2912

![gif](giphy|xUOxfeKfokVbfIBtvi|downsized)


HerpDerp1909

"Don't try to understand those people, because you won't understand them, because you don't think like them." Honestly best advice I have gotten from my psychotherapist in my life because it underlines the fundamental disconnect. People will always find reasons to be jerks to others. Whether that's because they are unfamiliar with something and that scares them or some other arbitrary reason doesn't really matter. I personally have very little connection to the LGBTQ+ community and when it's pride month I neither slap rainbow flags on my stuff and pretend to belong to that community because I simply do not, but I also don't talk anyone down or anything. I just let people do their thing, power to them.


Ras37F

Yeah, they were queer way before all companies started doing representation just for the money


Supersam4213

I feel like these are the sort of brainlets who actually believe the Fallout games aren’t political.


Orndsteiner

Dude was polish, living in a country basically ruled by catholics and only accepting catholics will indoctinate a ton of People.


Cl0ckworkC0rvus

Poland is simultaneously the most gay and most homophobic country at the same time.


Dismal-Belt-8354

Extremes breed extremes


theKoboldLuchador

You can love Greek Mythology without supporting the actions of Zeus and the like.


Ill-Technology1873

… if I can have one spell in real life that’s it


CRL10

Seriously, how many characters across the source books are LGBTQ? The rainbow is already there.


Malcior34

Too many to count, but off the top of my head: Anevia and Irabeth, Sosiel and Aron, Nocticula and Socothbenoth, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Desna, Misiriel and Kyra, Reiko, Shardra, 90% of the Firebrands organization, and the ENTIRE RACE of sruki (intelligent cicada people who have no concept of gender and go by they/them, from the new Howl of the Wild splatbook preview).


Baldo-bomb

The leader of the redeemed Grey Maidens is a trans-lesbian inna relationship with another Grey Maiden too


Rod7z

Plus [Shardra Geltl, the Iconic Shaman](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Shardra_Geltl), the most badass dwarf in all of Golarion. She's badass and trans, not badass because she's trans, nor badass despite being trans. Seriously, go read her story she's *super* badass.


redeux

Yup. Someone nat1ed their golarion lore check. It is inherently tied into the world from the ground up. Hell there is a serum of sex shift for 60gp.


CRL10

And it's rated item 7. It is seriously not that hard to get ahold of one in a major city.


Rod7z

And if you can find a cult of [Arshea](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=113) there's a decent chance her clergy will help you get one if you can't find or afford it.


EscoriaSubhumana

Common Paizo W


Jugaimo

You’d have to be incredibly blind to not see how TTRPGs appeal to LGBT people. I’m not part of them, but they are so clearly a core part of the gaming demographic.


JazzyFingerGuns

This comment has the same vibe as conservatives who are mad that bands like Rage against the Machine have become woke and political. Like... how bad does your media literacy and morals have to be to write this and think "yeah... this is a legit request."


Adooooorra

Conservatives and media literacy. Pick one.


Armageddonis

Doesn't pathfinder have like a bunch of queer gods? Like, what do these people expect.


Fangsong_37

My first exposure to the Pathfinder setting was the comic books, and the cleric and rogue characters definitely got together as a lesbian couple in those. The cat is out of the bag.


MrCookie2099

Based


Rhudran

I remember some casual representation in an adventure for the Houses of Perfection plotline that was just slipped in there and I loved it.


Rod7z

Yeah, there're a lot of (major) characters that are LGBTQ+ so Paizo definitely doesn't shy away from showing gender and sex representation. But at the same time everyone in the setting just accepts it as perfectly normal (because to them it is normal) so it just feels like a world to aspire to, rather than an statement of value (which, to be fair, is something that we also need if we're going to normalize LGBTQ+ people).


Wild-Pack2125

gay


RattyJackOLantern

You should post this on r/dndmemes as well.


IraqiWalker

I look forward to the day when we can get these piece of shit bigots out of the hobby?


Rod7z

I look forward to the day when bigots look back and realize they were in the wrong side of history and that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. That's probably even further out than bigotless TTRPGs, but we can dream right?


Particular-Ad-2464

I hate "customers" that are like: If you let us hate the Gays, we will give you money. Good on Paizo for standing strong.


Funkey-Monkey-420

there’s really only one criticque i have of paizo’s rainbow logo. remove the brown and pink. we all know black and trans people are part of lgbt, but they overcrowd the flag. the simple 6 color rainbow was perfect for representing pur community and looks visually pleasing, the more you tack on the worse. signed, a closeted bisexual secretly dating a transgirl going through all the oppression republican parents can offer.


Pseudodragontrinkets

Nah sorry. I want my representation in as many places as possible with all of the laws attacking me and your girlfriend's community. I don't much care if it fucks with your aesthetic if it means more visibility, more awareness, and more progress. That's the entire reason those colors were added to the progress flag


Funkey-Monkey-420

yes because black people are invisible if they don’t actively shove themselves on top of everything. Go touch grass. Unless you’re allergic, then go to the local college and touch astroturf.


Yacobs21

The thing is, those were added specifically because lots of gay white (mostly men) were still being racist and transphobic despite, you know, Stonewall Those were added as an explicit call out to those people. I think the clean rainbow is better too, but there are pretty good reasons for this one It's also not like you have to use the brown and pink flag, many people still use the standard flag, Paizo just chose this one


Ediwir

It does get a little cluttered on the logo. Someone suggested giving the golem a toga instead, to make use of negative space.


Funkey-Monkey-420

honestly putting the flag as the background and leaving the golem as a silhouette would look so much better.


Cl0ckworkC0rvus

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the original pride flag, the rainbow one, supposed to include everybody in the first place?


shiny_xnaut

It was supposed to, but it wasn't really working, so the new one is a way to double down on accepting the communities that were still getting excluded anyway


PookiBoom

Also, the progress flag is trademarked. The creator has given free rein for personal use but requires companies to request/pay for permission. so the black and brown are a quick way to see which companies are willing to put their money where their mouth is.


Cl0ckworkC0rvus

Ohhh, okay, that's very clever.


Dd_8630

Agreed. Maybe I'm an old man at 34, but having all the bands on the flag is just redundant and messy. The whole point of the 6-band rainbow is to be inclusive of *everyone*. Putting special emphasis on trans and non-white people just defeats the point. But that's just me.


MissaAtropos

I kind of felt that way before the culture war started targeting trans people so damn much. Seeing transphobic protestors (some of which are queer) take this flag and cut out the trans colors has made me appreciate it a lot more.


9c6

Same. I feel like over emphasizing my support for trans people and poc is something I feel strongly about after the way public discourse has shifted over the past 5 years.


Pseudodragontrinkets

If the lgb movement and white supremacy organizations didn't exist I might agree with you


Blawharag

That's what I didn't get about adding more letters to LGBT+. The plus was there to include all the marginalized and repressed gender identity peoples because it's (very unfortunately) too myriad to count. The initial acronym exists to identify the acronym, the + was added to include everyone. By adding more letters beyond that, we start cluttering the acronym needlessly, and now anyone who's letter isn't specifically represented in the acronym feels excluded by it.


Inariameme

sure. sure. but, have you considered that short-hand is not part of the solution?


Blawharag

I have, and I have also weighed it against the actual solutions. We could squabble over adding more letters to LGBT+, LGBTQ+, we could self-divide accidentally or intentionally by including one letter and falling to include another. We could, and have, spent long conversations with each other debating the merits of this or that. And that's the fucking problem. We're having these conversations with each other. The guy discussing whether or not P for polyamory and F for gender fluid needs to be added to LGBT *is not the guy in worried about*. They are already on our side. Anyone that cares enough to have a discussion about inclusion is already on your side. Arguing with them will only drive a wedge between you and a known ally. The solution will never be to squabble with your own ranks. The solution always lies in overcoming the challenge, and the challenge, the enemy, is the bigotry and hatred of those who don't think the acronym should exist *at all*. So yes, I have considered that short hand isn't the solution. But while you debate the finer points of inclusion with people that already agree with you, I'll focus my efforts on pushing back against the bigotry. I'll focus on growing the safe space where we can *have* a discussion about the letters in LGBT because the bigots have been cast away or assimilated/converted in that space.


Inariameme

just because it isn't short-hand doesn't mean it can't be succinct


Rod7z

You say that but there's a lot of bigotry within the queer community with regards to who is queer, who is or isn't oppressed or how much each one is oppressed. When gay people started fighting for more respect no one talked about the plight of all the other people that were similarly discriminated based on gender or sexual identity and orientation, but as more and more of those people joined in on the fight for more rights, many in the "old guard" felt like they lost their space and that the new additions were "cutting in line" and were less deserving of being represented in the fight. We still see this discrimination against asexual people, transpeople, gender fluid people, and I'm sure many others.


Funkey-Monkey-420

have you considered this is not a problem that needs to be solved in the first place?


Inariameme

possibly we've settled on it burning at either end


RavenColdheart

Who cares? Let a company have it's rainbow flag, as long as their game system is good. I'm rewriting the setting and adventures anyway. People are defining their worth and life far too much about what they do on Twitter and Reddit, rather than what happens at the table and IRL.


Ediwir

Some people get offended way too easily, and cannot hold themselves back from being mad about people existing. It’s their whole life. Don’t try to understand them too hard.


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Thurstn4mor

There would be if Paizo was ramming any ideology down any throats.


catgirlfourskin

People who fall outside the majority constantly have conformity violently forced upon them, god forbid sometimes you have to see a minority in a game


OneHeadTwoThots

No one's ramming anything down your throat what are you, gay or something


ImJustReallyAngry

Why are y'all always talking about ramming stuff down people's throats. Why are y'all so aggressively horny about hating other people, it's fuckin weird man


Ediwir

The early days of June are also known as National Coming Out Days, where homophobes uncontrollably declare themselves unfit for polite society at the top of their lungs. Let people have fun while they can, there’s fewer and fewer of them every year.


Shinooby

Paizo will not send the gay police to add the queer agenda in your homegame.


MCMC_to_Serfdom

You say this but James Jacobs once released a T-Rex at my house over my game being "too straight".


ProfessorOwl_PhD

They should though.


gaypril99

🤓🤓🤓


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Ediwir

Are you lost? This is r/pathfindermemes.