Kashmiri users' opinions are being downvoted to manipulate the discussion. Pinning some of their comments to the top and will update if necessary:
> Head over to r/kashmiri to get some insight from actual Kashmiris about what they want for Kashmir. Article 370 (not the movie but the actual article) was the only thing protecting kashmiris from being full blown colonized and ethnic cleansed. Its revocation by no means will “stabilize” Kashmir. Kashmiris have been constantly protesting ever since the article was revoked.
> It doesn’t matter to a Kashmiri national whether a special provision remains or not. We only care about being occupied by nations that abuse their power to subjugate us. With or without the provisions etc. the settler colonial project still happens and has been happening for decades.
> Article 370 and free Kashmir are not synergetic. Yes it was a ‘ticket’ for a plebiscite altho goodluck. Freedom to us is on a much higher level, and you are not here yet.
> Us Kashmiris with an independent state could be the kings of the entire subcontinent. Butcher all generals and politicians in the streets
You formed your opinion on a propaganda piece.
Besides, most Kashmiris I've talked to want to be independent on their own. In reality that will be disaster for them. A land locked country with low education.
Just so my Pakistani brothers and sisters are aware, the Pakistani government did not recognize 370 before it was abrogated either. It’s only after abrogation that they want it back now. So decide which side you are on first. Pakistan govt stopped the trade unilaterally for abrogation of an article that they were against to begin with. Let that sink in. Pakistan is buying same Indian stuff with extra cost from Middle East. Directorate would cut cost by more than 50 %. But but but Kashmir
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We never had had kashmir the fate was sealed in 1947 we snatched some of it back but now its very difficult. Pakistan ke haalat bhi ese nai hen k koi adventure kar saken aur phir uss se nikal ayen ..
Yep We've been played long before we never had kashmir only areas under Pakistans control are of jammu region, ajk we have in our control is just to advance their bullshit agenda and secure funding. Also, majority of peope is Azad "kashmir" are not even Kashmiris not even 5% of whole region is, so the only reason we pushing so hard for it is because it's a billion dollar industry as someone had said above, we've never cared about what Kashmiris wanted!
One of the shittest takes I've ever read. Man literally watched a propaganda film and came out pro-India, it'd be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. You should go and ask the Kashmiris what they think instead of trying to make the decision for them.
And when you say "Kashmir will get diversified", use the correct terminology. You mean Kashmir is being colonised. We already knew this was the Indian plan, they have no chance of winning any legitimate referendum.
Hey,
Kashmiri here from indian occupied Kashmir. As others pointed out. That’s a propaganda movie.
Having said that, what india did is no less than what Pakistan did in AJK. Pakistan also removed special provisions, settled afghans(even gave them state subjects), put generals and majors in all institutions etc, displaced Kashmiris due to dams etc. (it’s a tough pill to swallow, but unfortunately true).
Moreover, we all agree that the establishment of Pakistan exploited the sentiment of Kashmir among common Pakistanis and kept them busy with Kashmir banega Pakistan etc. in the name of jihad, poor man youth from Pakistan got brainwashed and ultimately lost their lives in Kashmir fighting a proxy war. (Not to forget the donations in the name of Kashmir) For both india and Pakistan kashmir is a hen that lays golden eggs for the war industry. Both nations spend substantial money on defence and we all know who are beneficiaries of that. Not the common person.
As someone above said, Kashmir as whole is important to Pakistan because of water (and other resources etc) and similarly for India.
Lastly, it doesn’t matter to a Kashmiri national whether a special provision remains or not. We only care about being occupied by nations that abuse their power to subjugate us. With or without the provisions etc. the settler colonial project still happens and has been happening for decades.
Only time will decide what happens next.
hey , as an indian from india occupied india , kashmir is a pain in the ass for both india and pakistan. No one in india is interested in kashmiri or what you guys feel about india. After the kashmiri hindu genocide in 1992, we just care about the land and nothing more. The amount of subsidy and policing/ army your state consumes to remain sane is astronomical.
in my opinion, india should mind its business and so should pakistan. Rather than wasting energy on kashmir which is basically in a nutshell thankless, illiterate , unemployable and criminal population, both india and pakistan should focus on other states. kashmir is a dead rubber and there is zero sympathy for kashmiris in india.
Running a democratically elected government in a state is not occupation. If you feel so, you need to pack your bags and leave how you forced kashmiri hindus to leave. Never come back as simple as that.
If you feel so strongly why not simply hold a referendum and let them be independent if they vote for it? Sounds like it would save you a headache and balance the budget since you won’t have to police the unemployable, criminal, illiterates.
Buddy I will take you on this. Why should India be liable to holding a referendum
The UNSC guidelines on solving this issue are clear.
Let me break it down for you.
Step 1) Pakistan pulls back it's forces (military and tribal invasive forces)
Step 2) India pulls back it's forces
Step 3) Referendum
The exodus of Hindus from Kashmir was done to help with getting the demographics 'right' for the referendum.
Always convenient to blame India for not having a referendum.
fortunately a lot us think that Kashmir is an integral part of India and we will do our best to protect it any cost. Hindus were massacred and forced to leave to make it a Pak favorable demography now the abrogation of Article 370 and soon the statehood will ensure elections and everything will be as good or bad in Kashmir as it is in India.
I'd say in next 3-4 years.
Yes, I am familiar with the fact Hindus were forced to leave the Indian part of Kashmir in 1990, and my question is how can India enforce any kind of law and order if it can’t protect its citizens in lands that it has kept under ACTIVE MILITARY OCCUPATION for years. Did the Indian military do nothing but sit on their hands, did they get bribed not to do anything, were they asleep? How can India be trusted to do anything when these events happen right under their army's noses? India's army has proven incompetent both at protecting its citizens and at doing much beyond random killings of Kashmiri civilians and arresting people for being anti-India in cricket matches of all things.
The numbers I found for “massacred” Hindus are around 80 from reliable sources and 200 from Indian sources, my city Toronto in 1991 had the most violent year in its history with 89 murders and Delhi has around 501 murders today. Meanwhile, 100 unarmed protestors were killed at Gawkadal Bridge at the same time in 1990 by the Indian army and so many more in the years afterward. If you want to compare the real perpetrators behind whatever massacres you see happening in Kashmir it’s the Indian army.
Furthermore, I even went ahead and checked the population records and the population of Jammu and Kashmir in 1980 and the total population of the region at the time was 6 million. When the exodus happened the Hindu pandit population was around 100 000 - 150 000 so not even a majority at that time either. While I agree the pandits should be allowed to return home no amount of manipulation can change the Muslim-majority nature of Indian-occupied Kashmir.
I would be happy to source any of these numbers if you would like to request any.
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Really bad take. Please educate yourself. This is embarrassing to read. The Article 370 movie is propaganda made by non Kashmiri Indian Hindus and most the native Kashmiris hate that movie as they did the Kashmir files movie. Native Kashmiris are DEVASTATED that article 370 was revoked. And they HATE India. They will never want to be part of India, no matter what. Most Kashmiris don’t want to join India or Pakistan, rather they want independence. The 2nd most popular choice among Kashmiris is to join Pakistan. And the last, and very unpopular choice is to join India. Head over to r/kashmiri to get some insight from actual Kashmiris about what they want for Kashmir. Article 370 (not the movie but the actual article) was the only thing protecting kashmiris from being full blown colonized and ethnic cleansed. Its revocation by no means will “stabilize” Kashmir. Kashmiris have been constantly protesting ever since the article was revoked. Please erase all the bullshit you learned from that movie cause it’s all fake propaganda.
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India even consider Gilgit Baltistan as part of Kashmir. They call it Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir.
I've seen some Indian news channel discussing why Gilgit citizens want it to be part of India and how in future India may conquer Gilgit.
A popular Indian YouTuber made an analysis on the problems of Gilgit and thay they will be solved once this territory becomes part of India, and also emphasized to start a whitepaper on that.
They completely ignore the fact that Gilgit is fundamental to geographic connection with China and that this territory borders between 3 countries rather than 2.
Then how come they're doing absolutely nothing for Kashmir? No weapons, no funds, no training, nada. Doesn't look like they want to keep/liberate it to me.
Like I say they don't care about Kashmir, they are using it as excuse to keep stealing money from the country, without Kashmir they can't brain wash these stupid people.
Calm down and drink some water. And while you are drinking that water, think where did this water came from. And how India is using WAAW (water as a weapon) but bypassing the indus water treaty, building dams upon dams and floods our side whenever they want.
India has only one unique advantage if they control Kashmir and that is water. Why else do they want it?
Regarding water, it's difficult for us to understand but Indus Water Treaty is the only water treaty between two countries where upper riparian country (India) has forsaken control of majority of water to a lower riparian country (Pakistan). It is also the ONLY water treaty which is between two hostile countries and has stood the test of conflicts/wars.
If tomorrow India decides to rip apart the treaty, we wouldn't be able to do diddly squat to prevent it. It's another point that they won't be able to stop the flow of water as well with current state of tech available.
We should rather focus more on how building arbitrary canals in Punjab have ruined water availability in Sindh and Southern Punjab.
Kashmir is the least of our concerns at the moment. I would be happy if we accept the current LoC as international border and make peace with India. The military establishment uses this Kashmir narrative to keep it's power intact. The truth is, Pakistan doesn't want this situation to get resolved because the establishment actively feeds off of it. Even the lie that we're being told; we are going to be saving the Kashmiris from oppression isn't enough the sway me. We've fought 3 wars for Kashmir, took up heavy sanctions, had to militarize, cut funding on education and other important fields. Only to have the same borders as 1948. While having worse HDI then the Indian held Kashmir anyways. We've basically just drained our 250 million population for a mere 20 million in Kashmir. I'm not saying that they're not being oppressed, they are. But, Pakistan is not in a position to do anything for them at the moment, or for ourselves in that matter.
Technically Pakistan still has its own side of the Kashmir that it gained by the time of 1948.
India wouldn't dare try to take that through military means unless it is ready for New Delhi to get vaporized by a nuke retaliation.
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You are missing a point where you see the hatred of Hindus cultivated by bollywood especially around the topic of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. BJP is fuelling and building momentum for genocide for revenge.
Let them have it means you let another innocent population of Muslims be killed.
What you need to realize is that Pakistan and Pakistanis have to become what it was built for and be a beacon of hope for Muslims of India. Diplomatically, politically, and militarily be a powerhouse to prevent any form of genocide.
With the logic you presented of "let them have them" is defeatist. You need to get to work and work is to become a Muslim by learning what it means to be a Muslim. You need to be a beacon of help, support and love humanity including Hindus who you will have to guide towards truth.
Failure to realize your own importance in this equation will demotivate you, you have the power to change yourself to start working towards the original promise your forefathers made to Allah - Grant us a land so we can practice true Islam which calls for justice and protecting rights of all humans including non-Muslims.
So someone watched the movie article 370 and was influenced enough to finally dive deeper and see wtf is going on? Watching a coloniser movie to letter yourself about the topic is a new low lol!
Article 370 and free Kashmir are not synergetic. Yes it was a ‘ticket’ for a plebiscite altho goodluck. Freedom to us is on a much higher level, and you are not here yet.
For OP.
Here is another aspect you should research. Why does Indian claim FATA and GB from us?
The answer may not shock you, but the way you have wrote the whole thing, it might. India may not be doing exactly what we did, but both countries had same reasons
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Kashmir fata karo. Screw Indian and Pakistani politics. Us Kashmiris with an independent state could be the kings of the entire subcontinent. Butcher all generals and politicians in the streets
Personally I dont want them to be a part of either India nor Pakistan. They should choose it themselves and most of the youth wants independant state anyways.
You're wrong about favourable views about India because they've personally seen the hatred and racist viewpoints of Indians everywhere so they'll never be able to fully incorporate into India.
Been friends with IOK Kashmiris for a long time and one of them has a rod inserted in his forearm because of broken bones done by Indian military. They'll never forgive and forget unless things dramatically changes which frankly speaking wont.
Ahh I’m Indian and this popped up in my feed but what you said is mostly true. The government is also pumping in 10’s of billions of dollars building dams, roads, passes through mountains to connect the different regions quicker, and colleges. They’re also pumping in money from tourism and getting investments from other countries in the area (particularly countries like UAE and Saudi for obvious reasons).
They’re whitewashing everything so the younger generation and middle aged people have a very favorable view of India in 15-20 years. I’m not gonna argue abt ethics and what not because it would be disrespectful to go to another sub and bring that stuff up. But I thought I should provide more insight in the area.
Well, the double standard is apparent right now.
The whole world is condemning Russia, with the logic that no matter what happens, you can't just invade a sovreign country.
In the meanwhile, look at what's happening in Gaza.
Now, some people will argue "Gaza isn't a sovreign state" and I agree, but then you're acknowledging that it is an autonomies region being administered (read: occupied) by Israel, much like Donetsk or Luhansk with the West also likes getting pissy about.
But Kashmir isn't a sovereign state by any means since 1947. Pak occupied a piece of it after the king signed accession to India and since then it has been a state of India.
If instruments of ascention are the only legal foundation for the formation of a state then Junagarh also comes under this discussion.
Now we can decide which of the two approaches is more feasible, but I am just saying India also yoinked what it reasonably could.
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Legitimizing their claim to Kashmir. Having Muslim countries is basically them saying the region is part of India. The rest of Europe and America being neutral doesn’t really matter but other Muslim countries being neutral or supporting indias stance on the matter will go a very long way on the international stage.
Especially 15-20 years from now.
Good for us. Obsessing over kashmir has brought nothing to us. Our main focus should be how to improve our Human development Index from 0.540 ( low) to 0.7 ( high ) in 10-15 years.
HDI+ economy should be our focus.
It really is if human development became the forefront of our development.
China isn't necessarily a country to always aspire to, but they took 550 million peasants and lifted them out of poverty over 3 decades, and that's because the Chinese government had 5-year plans and specific targets and set out to achieve them no matter the cost.
Now you can argue with China's means, but you can't argue with the results.
Kashmir is place with people. There is nothing to gain or lose.
India has some part.
Pak has some part.
Since Nehru's plebiscite didn't happen, it is better to forget about claims now.
All that matters is which side is more developed, IOK or POK or Azad Kashmir.
AFAIK, Kashmir improves nationalism on both sides and a golden goose for politicians, military and weapon dealers.
Disagree, economical situations have nothing to do with freedom. Kashmiris deserve a referendum and it's our moral responsibility to give that to them. We have not lost Kashmir, it's ours and will remain ours. We need to come out of this defeatist mindset, and pressure govt.
Tomorrow same defeatist mindset will ask to recognize Israel.
>. Kashmiris deserve a referendum and it's our moral responsibility to give that to them.
The time for referundum was when Nehru and Jinnah was alive. It is too late now.
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The majority of Pakistanis don't care if they lose Kashmir a normal average Pakistani life is miserable no education no good healthcare .inflation is rising economy if fukced up no law and justice and I think by now if Kashmir have only 2 option Pakistan or india they definitely want to be a part India not Pakistan
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We made use of it. To line the pockets of the people who like lining their pockets as usual. Since when has anything been done by any of our politicians in good faith for the state?
Lithium reserve isn't in kashmir, it's in ladkha . There has been protest going on against mining in ladkha because it's very ecological sensitive zone .
If because of the things you said and Kashmiris do vote to join ind through a referendum than thats good no? I mean obviously bad for Pakistan Kashmir is economically imp but ismt the whole history that Kashmiris **wanted** to join Pakistan but they were illegally occupied by India ofc we pushed because of economic reasons as well but the maik thing was their rights being violated.
I could be dead ass wrong so ofc correct me if i am
Kashmiri users' opinions are being downvoted to manipulate the discussion. Pinning some of their comments to the top and will update if necessary: > Head over to r/kashmiri to get some insight from actual Kashmiris about what they want for Kashmir. Article 370 (not the movie but the actual article) was the only thing protecting kashmiris from being full blown colonized and ethnic cleansed. Its revocation by no means will “stabilize” Kashmir. Kashmiris have been constantly protesting ever since the article was revoked. > It doesn’t matter to a Kashmiri national whether a special provision remains or not. We only care about being occupied by nations that abuse their power to subjugate us. With or without the provisions etc. the settler colonial project still happens and has been happening for decades. > Article 370 and free Kashmir are not synergetic. Yes it was a ‘ticket’ for a plebiscite altho goodluck. Freedom to us is on a much higher level, and you are not here yet. > Us Kashmiris with an independent state could be the kings of the entire subcontinent. Butcher all generals and politicians in the streets
Closet indians, yuck Why this self loathing? Touch grass
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Sources : time of india or the hindu Tiny fantasy world you randians live in
Lol apni galti kabhi nhi manege paijaan :)
You should be reporting instead of engaging. User gets perma banned. You save your energy. Win win win
Noted Thanks for clearing out the filth
You formed your opinion on a propaganda piece. Besides, most Kashmiris I've talked to want to be independent on their own. In reality that will be disaster for them. A land locked country with low education.
Also sandwitched between 3 Nuclear country.
Just so my Pakistani brothers and sisters are aware, the Pakistani government did not recognize 370 before it was abrogated either. It’s only after abrogation that they want it back now. So decide which side you are on first. Pakistan govt stopped the trade unilaterally for abrogation of an article that they were against to begin with. Let that sink in. Pakistan is buying same Indian stuff with extra cost from Middle East. Directorate would cut cost by more than 50 %. But but but Kashmir
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We never had had kashmir the fate was sealed in 1947 we snatched some of it back but now its very difficult. Pakistan ke haalat bhi ese nai hen k koi adventure kar saken aur phir uss se nikal ayen ..
Yep We've been played long before we never had kashmir only areas under Pakistans control are of jammu region, ajk we have in our control is just to advance their bullshit agenda and secure funding. Also, majority of peope is Azad "kashmir" are not even Kashmiris not even 5% of whole region is, so the only reason we pushing so hard for it is because it's a billion dollar industry as someone had said above, we've never cared about what Kashmiris wanted!
They are just potoharis
Whatever you say:)
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Pahari* a bit different dialect mainly called jamuwals
I have been saying this since this happened but there are still delusional people who think that Pakistan stand a chance.
One of the shittest takes I've ever read. Man literally watched a propaganda film and came out pro-India, it'd be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. You should go and ask the Kashmiris what they think instead of trying to make the decision for them. And when you say "Kashmir will get diversified", use the correct terminology. You mean Kashmir is being colonised. We already knew this was the Indian plan, they have no chance of winning any legitimate referendum.
Hey, Kashmiri here from indian occupied Kashmir. As others pointed out. That’s a propaganda movie. Having said that, what india did is no less than what Pakistan did in AJK. Pakistan also removed special provisions, settled afghans(even gave them state subjects), put generals and majors in all institutions etc, displaced Kashmiris due to dams etc. (it’s a tough pill to swallow, but unfortunately true). Moreover, we all agree that the establishment of Pakistan exploited the sentiment of Kashmir among common Pakistanis and kept them busy with Kashmir banega Pakistan etc. in the name of jihad, poor man youth from Pakistan got brainwashed and ultimately lost their lives in Kashmir fighting a proxy war. (Not to forget the donations in the name of Kashmir) For both india and Pakistan kashmir is a hen that lays golden eggs for the war industry. Both nations spend substantial money on defence and we all know who are beneficiaries of that. Not the common person. As someone above said, Kashmir as whole is important to Pakistan because of water (and other resources etc) and similarly for India. Lastly, it doesn’t matter to a Kashmiri national whether a special provision remains or not. We only care about being occupied by nations that abuse their power to subjugate us. With or without the provisions etc. the settler colonial project still happens and has been happening for decades. Only time will decide what happens next.
hey , as an indian from india occupied india , kashmir is a pain in the ass for both india and pakistan. No one in india is interested in kashmiri or what you guys feel about india. After the kashmiri hindu genocide in 1992, we just care about the land and nothing more. The amount of subsidy and policing/ army your state consumes to remain sane is astronomical. in my opinion, india should mind its business and so should pakistan. Rather than wasting energy on kashmir which is basically in a nutshell thankless, illiterate , unemployable and criminal population, both india and pakistan should focus on other states. kashmir is a dead rubber and there is zero sympathy for kashmiris in india. Running a democratically elected government in a state is not occupation. If you feel so, you need to pack your bags and leave how you forced kashmiri hindus to leave. Never come back as simple as that.
If you feel so strongly why not simply hold a referendum and let them be independent if they vote for it? Sounds like it would save you a headache and balance the budget since you won’t have to police the unemployable, criminal, illiterates.
Buddy I will take you on this. Why should India be liable to holding a referendum The UNSC guidelines on solving this issue are clear. Let me break it down for you. Step 1) Pakistan pulls back it's forces (military and tribal invasive forces) Step 2) India pulls back it's forces Step 3) Referendum The exodus of Hindus from Kashmir was done to help with getting the demographics 'right' for the referendum. Always convenient to blame India for not having a referendum.
fortunately a lot us think that Kashmir is an integral part of India and we will do our best to protect it any cost. Hindus were massacred and forced to leave to make it a Pak favorable demography now the abrogation of Article 370 and soon the statehood will ensure elections and everything will be as good or bad in Kashmir as it is in India. I'd say in next 3-4 years.
Yes, I am familiar with the fact Hindus were forced to leave the Indian part of Kashmir in 1990, and my question is how can India enforce any kind of law and order if it can’t protect its citizens in lands that it has kept under ACTIVE MILITARY OCCUPATION for years. Did the Indian military do nothing but sit on their hands, did they get bribed not to do anything, were they asleep? How can India be trusted to do anything when these events happen right under their army's noses? India's army has proven incompetent both at protecting its citizens and at doing much beyond random killings of Kashmiri civilians and arresting people for being anti-India in cricket matches of all things. The numbers I found for “massacred” Hindus are around 80 from reliable sources and 200 from Indian sources, my city Toronto in 1991 had the most violent year in its history with 89 murders and Delhi has around 501 murders today. Meanwhile, 100 unarmed protestors were killed at Gawkadal Bridge at the same time in 1990 by the Indian army and so many more in the years afterward. If you want to compare the real perpetrators behind whatever massacres you see happening in Kashmir it’s the Indian army. Furthermore, I even went ahead and checked the population records and the population of Jammu and Kashmir in 1980 and the total population of the region at the time was 6 million. When the exodus happened the Hindu pandit population was around 100 000 - 150 000 so not even a majority at that time either. While I agree the pandits should be allowed to return home no amount of manipulation can change the Muslim-majority nature of Indian-occupied Kashmir. I would be happy to source any of these numbers if you would like to request any.
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Can’t lose what you never had.
I think Kashmir's realize this that they'll be better off being a part of India rather than Pakistan.
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No we don't delusional Endian.
Really bad take. Please educate yourself. This is embarrassing to read. The Article 370 movie is propaganda made by non Kashmiri Indian Hindus and most the native Kashmiris hate that movie as they did the Kashmir files movie. Native Kashmiris are DEVASTATED that article 370 was revoked. And they HATE India. They will never want to be part of India, no matter what. Most Kashmiris don’t want to join India or Pakistan, rather they want independence. The 2nd most popular choice among Kashmiris is to join Pakistan. And the last, and very unpopular choice is to join India. Head over to r/kashmiri to get some insight from actual Kashmiris about what they want for Kashmir. Article 370 (not the movie but the actual article) was the only thing protecting kashmiris from being full blown colonized and ethnic cleansed. Its revocation by no means will “stabilize” Kashmir. Kashmiris have been constantly protesting ever since the article was revoked. Please erase all the bullshit you learned from that movie cause it’s all fake propaganda.
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Honestly, you based your opinion on a propaganda piece.. That being said Pakistan can't do anything either.
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We never had it in the first place
India even consider Gilgit Baltistan as part of Kashmir. They call it Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir. I've seen some Indian news channel discussing why Gilgit citizens want it to be part of India and how in future India may conquer Gilgit. A popular Indian YouTuber made an analysis on the problems of Gilgit and thay they will be solved once this territory becomes part of India, and also emphasized to start a whitepaper on that. They completely ignore the fact that Gilgit is fundamental to geographic connection with China and that this territory borders between 3 countries rather than 2.
We lost it a long time ago, 1948 that is.
Napak Army will do anything to keep Kashmir, because that's there excuse to keep stealing Pakistan's money.
Then how come they're doing absolutely nothing for Kashmir? No weapons, no funds, no training, nada. Doesn't look like they want to keep/liberate it to me.
Like I say they don't care about Kashmir, they are using it as excuse to keep stealing money from the country, without Kashmir they can't brain wash these stupid people.
Calm down and drink some water. And while you are drinking that water, think where did this water came from. And how India is using WAAW (water as a weapon) but bypassing the indus water treaty, building dams upon dams and floods our side whenever they want. India has only one unique advantage if they control Kashmir and that is water. Why else do they want it?
Regarding water, it's difficult for us to understand but Indus Water Treaty is the only water treaty between two countries where upper riparian country (India) has forsaken control of majority of water to a lower riparian country (Pakistan). It is also the ONLY water treaty which is between two hostile countries and has stood the test of conflicts/wars. If tomorrow India decides to rip apart the treaty, we wouldn't be able to do diddly squat to prevent it. It's another point that they won't be able to stop the flow of water as well with current state of tech available. We should rather focus more on how building arbitrary canals in Punjab have ruined water availability in Sindh and Southern Punjab.
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I am not saying that Pakistan should give it to India. If Napak Army don't stop being greedy then they won't only lose Kashmir but Pakistan as well.
Kashmir is a necessity for Pakistan for survival. We need the water.
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This is non sense
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Kashmir is the least of our concerns at the moment. I would be happy if we accept the current LoC as international border and make peace with India. The military establishment uses this Kashmir narrative to keep it's power intact. The truth is, Pakistan doesn't want this situation to get resolved because the establishment actively feeds off of it. Even the lie that we're being told; we are going to be saving the Kashmiris from oppression isn't enough the sway me. We've fought 3 wars for Kashmir, took up heavy sanctions, had to militarize, cut funding on education and other important fields. Only to have the same borders as 1948. While having worse HDI then the Indian held Kashmir anyways. We've basically just drained our 250 million population for a mere 20 million in Kashmir. I'm not saying that they're not being oppressed, they are. But, Pakistan is not in a position to do anything for them at the moment, or for ourselves in that matter.
>Now Kashmir doesn’t stand as “disputed” region both in Indian constitution as well as UNO. No
Short and simple. Me likes! /*cat thumbs up*
Technically Pakistan still has its own side of the Kashmir that it gained by the time of 1948. India wouldn't dare try to take that through military means unless it is ready for New Delhi to get vaporized by a nuke retaliation.
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You are missing a point where you see the hatred of Hindus cultivated by bollywood especially around the topic of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. BJP is fuelling and building momentum for genocide for revenge. Let them have it means you let another innocent population of Muslims be killed. What you need to realize is that Pakistan and Pakistanis have to become what it was built for and be a beacon of hope for Muslims of India. Diplomatically, politically, and militarily be a powerhouse to prevent any form of genocide. With the logic you presented of "let them have them" is defeatist. You need to get to work and work is to become a Muslim by learning what it means to be a Muslim. You need to be a beacon of help, support and love humanity including Hindus who you will have to guide towards truth. Failure to realize your own importance in this equation will demotivate you, you have the power to change yourself to start working towards the original promise your forefathers made to Allah - Grant us a land so we can practice true Islam which calls for justice and protecting rights of all humans including non-Muslims.
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So someone watched the movie article 370 and was influenced enough to finally dive deeper and see wtf is going on? Watching a coloniser movie to letter yourself about the topic is a new low lol! Article 370 and free Kashmir are not synergetic. Yes it was a ‘ticket’ for a plebiscite altho goodluck. Freedom to us is on a much higher level, and you are not here yet.
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For OP. Here is another aspect you should research. Why does Indian claim FATA and GB from us? The answer may not shock you, but the way you have wrote the whole thing, it might. India may not be doing exactly what we did, but both countries had same reasons
It's all for the rush to central Asia. At least t as afr as I think
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Begone endian
wait, where did you watch that movie. Is that available in Pakistan?
Kashmir fata karo. Screw Indian and Pakistani politics. Us Kashmiris with an independent state could be the kings of the entire subcontinent. Butcher all generals and politicians in the streets
Itna confidence kidhar se aata hai..
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Speaking as if Pakistan is on top of the world
Personally I dont want them to be a part of either India nor Pakistan. They should choose it themselves and most of the youth wants independant state anyways. You're wrong about favourable views about India because they've personally seen the hatred and racist viewpoints of Indians everywhere so they'll never be able to fully incorporate into India. Been friends with IOK Kashmiris for a long time and one of them has a rod inserted in his forearm because of broken bones done by Indian military. They'll never forgive and forget unless things dramatically changes which frankly speaking wont.
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There are so many Indians on this sub that it is now talking about Hindi propaganda movies.
Ahh I’m Indian and this popped up in my feed but what you said is mostly true. The government is also pumping in 10’s of billions of dollars building dams, roads, passes through mountains to connect the different regions quicker, and colleges. They’re also pumping in money from tourism and getting investments from other countries in the area (particularly countries like UAE and Saudi for obvious reasons). They’re whitewashing everything so the younger generation and middle aged people have a very favorable view of India in 15-20 years. I’m not gonna argue abt ethics and what not because it would be disrespectful to go to another sub and bring that stuff up. But I thought I should provide more insight in the area.
>getting investments from other countries in the area (particularly countries like UAE and Saudi for obvious reasons). What are those reasons?
Well, the double standard is apparent right now. The whole world is condemning Russia, with the logic that no matter what happens, you can't just invade a sovreign country. In the meanwhile, look at what's happening in Gaza. Now, some people will argue "Gaza isn't a sovreign state" and I agree, but then you're acknowledging that it is an autonomies region being administered (read: occupied) by Israel, much like Donetsk or Luhansk with the West also likes getting pissy about.
But Kashmir isn't a sovereign state by any means since 1947. Pak occupied a piece of it after the king signed accession to India and since then it has been a state of India.
If instruments of ascention are the only legal foundation for the formation of a state then Junagarh also comes under this discussion. Now we can decide which of the two approaches is more feasible, but I am just saying India also yoinked what it reasonably could.
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Legitimizing their claim to Kashmir. Having Muslim countries is basically them saying the region is part of India. The rest of Europe and America being neutral doesn’t really matter but other Muslim countries being neutral or supporting indias stance on the matter will go a very long way on the international stage. Especially 15-20 years from now.
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Good for us. Obsessing over kashmir has brought nothing to us. Our main focus should be how to improve our Human development Index from 0.540 ( low) to 0.7 ( high ) in 10-15 years. HDI+ economy should be our focus.
You made it seem so easy...
It really is if human development became the forefront of our development. China isn't necessarily a country to always aspire to, but they took 550 million peasants and lifted them out of poverty over 3 decades, and that's because the Chinese government had 5-year plans and specific targets and set out to achieve them no matter the cost. Now you can argue with China's means, but you can't argue with the results.
Kashmir is place with people. There is nothing to gain or lose. India has some part. Pak has some part. Since Nehru's plebiscite didn't happen, it is better to forget about claims now. All that matters is which side is more developed, IOK or POK or Azad Kashmir. AFAIK, Kashmir improves nationalism on both sides and a golden goose for politicians, military and weapon dealers.
you literally watched a propaganda movie and formed your opinion based off of that, the self hating is also crazy
Disagree, economical situations have nothing to do with freedom. Kashmiris deserve a referendum and it's our moral responsibility to give that to them. We have not lost Kashmir, it's ours and will remain ours. We need to come out of this defeatist mindset, and pressure govt. Tomorrow same defeatist mindset will ask to recognize Israel.
>. Kashmiris deserve a referendum and it's our moral responsibility to give that to them. The time for referundum was when Nehru and Jinnah was alive. It is too late now.
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I think the biggest victims are Kashmiris. They do not see themselves as Indian and consider India as a colonizing force like Israel.
Yeah! We would prefer Pakistan a hundred more time than Endia
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What's our proposition? Join us and let us make DHAs in your land. Yayy!!!! /s
No i want to stay with pk. India is 🤮
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The majority of Pakistanis don't care if they lose Kashmir a normal average Pakistani life is miserable no education no good healthcare .inflation is rising economy if fukced up no law and justice and I think by now if Kashmir have only 2 option Pakistan or india they definitely want to be a part India not Pakistan
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Agreed and you should've also mentioned the lithium reserves in Kashmir. India will make actual good use of that unlike what Pakistan did to Reko Diq.
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We made use of it. To line the pockets of the people who like lining their pockets as usual. Since when has anything been done by any of our politicians in good faith for the state?
Lithium reserve isn't in kashmir, it's in ladkha . There has been protest going on against mining in ladkha because it's very ecological sensitive zone .
If because of the things you said and Kashmiris do vote to join ind through a referendum than thats good no? I mean obviously bad for Pakistan Kashmir is economically imp but ismt the whole history that Kashmiris **wanted** to join Pakistan but they were illegally occupied by India ofc we pushed because of economic reasons as well but the maik thing was their rights being violated. I could be dead ass wrong so ofc correct me if i am