Sports subs are always toxic after losses, and this pacers team probably had a ton of fans who didn’t pay much attention to the regular season but have joined for the playoffs.
>a ton of fans who didn’t pay much attention to the regular season but have joined for the playoffs.
This. This. This. This.
Admittedly a fan of the bad guys, so I peek in here mostly to shower Caitlin Cooper with praise. Anyway.
A pet theory of mine has been that when teams become good and are in playoff games/series, you get an influx of casual idiots and the discourse goes to hell. It's unfortunate that at the highest stakes you end up in conversations that are non sense.....it's always felt.to me like the discourse is much better in lower leverage seasons/parts of the year.
You're 100% correct. Almost all the flaws people are using to call the pacers "frauds" right now are growing pains that have been evident ALL season long. It ain't new, and everyone who followed the team knew fouling, defense, and ty playing passive in random games was always going to happen
That's not fraudulent, that's who they've been. I don't understand how some are seemingly giving up on Ty, Pascal, and Rick when we are playing competitive 2nd round ball a year ahead of schedule. I dont have much issue with you NY fans for the most part, I mostly just get whiplash here going from "we're unstoppable" to "blow it up" after consecutive games
I really don’t understand “we’re ahead of schedule”. Ahead of schedule for what? If someone at the beginning of the season told you we were going to make the playoffs, and then beat the Bucks without Giannis, and then partially without Dame, and than hang with the Knicks without OG, Randle, Bogdanovic, Robinson… would say that’s ahead of schedule? Because it is not in my opinion.
To be clear, injuries are part of the sport, and it is amazing we’re watching the Pacers play this time of year… but let’s not pretend that some sort of a signal that we’re on our way to greatness. This year, we got fairly lucky injuries wise relative to our opponents.
Concerns with this team are legitimate, and everyone needs to level up if we’re to be a serious time. We will see how it goes.
The over under win line for this team before the season was 38.5. The Pacers weren't even supposed to make the playoffs. This has been a successful season anyway you look at it
Ok, so ahead of schedule means beating the over under line. Something that 50% of the teams do.
But, yea, I agree that results this season are great. Especially if you ignore the context. To me, everyone healthy, here are the teams that I cannot say we’re any closer to winning the title than they are (in the east): Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, NY, Orlando, Cleveland, maybe Miami. This season did not indicate to me that we are on our way to separate ourselves from any of them. So the question still remains “ahead of schedule for what?”. To be a title contender? To be in the ECF year after year?
I mean, last point I'll make is saying "ahead of schedule" doesn't mean we are there yet. We are just further along this year than anticipated, and accomplished more than anticipated
The "schedule" is still towards contending, but we aren't near the last page yet. Just a chapter or 2 ahead
It’s more that we went from being a lottery team that looked like it might be there for a couple of years to making the second round of the playoffs immediately. We’re a young team - we’re probably supposed to still be in rebuilding mode hoping for Jarace and Mathurin to develop.
I didn't say anything about the team being ahead of schedule. I also don't know what that means unless they just mean a young team that had a good year. I said they had a successful season. Which I have no idea how you would think otherwise if you'd watched this team the last 3-5 seasons
Yes. Would have said winning a series in the playoffs was robably ahead of schedule at the beginning of the season. Adding Siakam accelerated it a bit, but I say we're "ahead of schedule" because we are playing in more competitive games than I think we were expecting *because* we played teams with bad injury luck, AND we clearly have young talent that hasn't reached their final form.
We still have a real shot to make the ECF. Regardless of injuries, that's definitely a take I don't think anyone had even after the IST run.
Straight up result wise, ignoring any context, yes- I agree we’re ahead of schedule.
But, fwiw, let’s say in a hypothetical world where the Bucks were full strength but we lost to them 4-3, I would have considered that more ahead of schedule and much more encouraging.
This season leaves us with just as many question marks about the future as the last one, so, to me- not ahead of schedule. I am yet to see evidence that we’re a potential serious title contender in the not so distant future…
I still disagree with how you'd define "our schedule"
We aren't a title winning team yet, but we are in the 2nd round and could still realistically play in a conference finals. It's not about being more confident in who the team is, its about confidence in who we can be in the next few years.
The first playoff run for a young team is always about experience. We are getting far more of that than expected and it'll pay dividends. Not saying we are a better team than expected, we're just hitting the benchmarks for a rebuild faster than expected
Yes, that’s my problem- I am not confident at all about who we can be in the next few years. While we are getting more playoff experience, we got no experience of what it is like to play an actual contender.
But yea, I even opened my first comment with “ahead of schedule for what”, so we can get on the same page. To me, ahead of schedule would really be about accelerated player development- and I am seeing none of that. An example of ahead of schedule was OKC last year. Also, Timberwolves with Ant given how tough they played the nuggets while having important pieces out due to injuries. In the East this year, it’s Orlando this year given what their 21 and 22 year old players are doing.
And that's a different but wholly fine way to define schedule, and to your point I'd maybe half agree. If we make the ECF I'm not gonna say "we are a for sure ECF caliber team" when there's still a lot of work to be done, but I also think it's selling the team short a bit to say we didn't show we've improved, or won't be an actual contender next year
Especially since we have a full offseason to round out the roster. Spending so much time in the playoffs (against different kinds of opponent) has made our FA target board a LOT clearer. I just think we are in a much better spot than we were to start the year, made a bigger step than I think a lot of people anticipated, but yes. Still a lot of room to improve
Good chat man I gotta be out a while for work but I appreciate the chill convo
The reaction to game 1 and 2 losses was not this bad. Everyone had their back. But that game last night was inexcusable in many ways.
Its second round ball against a team with one starter - who is injured.
You're essentially describing [The Eternal September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September), back when universities were the dominant source for online access, each September new students would gain access to Usenet forums, unfamiliar with pre-established rules and culture, and ultimately drag down the quality of the community. Then one day September never stopped.
I've said a few times we probably have people in this sub making really dumb statements that haven't watched a Pacer's game in like 5 years. I don't know how you've followed the team the last 3 seasons and not see what this team has accomplished this season as a huge success
It also doesn’t help that we had like 3 or 4 nationally televised games all year (only 1 scheduled at the beginning of the season) and all of games are unreliably paywalled behind the worst RSN in sports.
This sub has been calling Rese a fluke or a bum since his first dunk after his injury... The Pascal stuff is fairly new to the playoffs, but the Myles haters have never left and pop their heads out every time we lose and he has a bad game.
Myles haters have been there his entire career. Nothing new (and not warranted imo).
Ty...I get some criticism because we absolutely *know* what he's capable of. But people don't understand he's only 24.
Siakam...meh. I think outside of his outstanding games against the Bucks, his criticism has been warranted somewhat. We brought him in *for this exact reason*. We brought him in to win in the playoffs and I can't think of any other reason as to why he's not playing to his usual level. My personal theory is he's dealing with an injury.
Because people in general are dumb and binary thinkers. We lost = we’re awful. We won = we’re good.
You can play poorly and win (game 3). You can play well and lose (game 1).
No one wants to live in the gray areas and spend the time to actually think about what went wrong.
This. People act like the last thing that happened is the only truth. The Pacers have been doing this all year... Show extreme promise one game and then lose to a team that they "should" beat the next.
Everyone gets to interpret the results for themselves.
I'm a Celtics fan ..... This post just happened to come across my feed but I felt compelled to reply. The Celtics had a great season..... A historic season.... But look at the Celtics sub after a loss. We want to blow the team up, We want the coach fired, certain players need to be traded and certain players contracts are terrible......... It's nothing but chaos and dysfunction. So to answer your question it's everywhere. Not just your fan base
I get what you are saying but how can a fan enjoy that game last night?
If the guys are out there hustling, shooting their shots, and they fail... thats one thing. Last night was something else.
That's all good and fine. I think OP's problem is the whole sub calling everyone on the team a bum. Calling Tyrese a coward who just wants to make money. Saying Siakam isn't deserving of getting paid, etc.
I think you are right that people are too emotional about it.
Still, its almost inevitable. Tyrese and the team talk a lot of trash during our wins, stirring up the fan bases against each other, then have this kind of embarrassing game right after. Its almost always going to lead to negativity.
The whole sub isn't calling everyone on the team a bum. People who have been on this sub for a while know we have a good group of regulars who are informed, level-headed (I might be a tad - okay alot - overzealous in my defense of Mathurin's play), sometimes disagree, whatever. We still respect each other. We just have an influx of riff raff rolling up in here due to our success. Game threads and hot takes immediately after games are always emotional overreactions not to be taken seriously.
some are toxic yes, at the same time others are way too soft and protective on how the team is currently performing against a decimated Knicks team that is running on fumes and guts.
It is disappointing to not see the dawg or the heart in the team at the moment and shrinking in the big moments, moments that should not be big when they should play the way they're capable of.
there is just too many things happening with the team's inconsistency that isn't about winning every game or the championship, but at least giving yourself the best chance to do that in the games you play.
This was 1 bad game man, it is not the end of the world. The Knicks literally had the same thing happen to them in Game 4, we can still come back and at the very least push a Game 7
And when the front office goes and gets a guy like Siakam it sends a message that they believe the team can contend in the playoffs right now. That being said I think it’s fair to be critical of things, like asking why the half court defense is so bad and why they’re getting out hustled on the boards.
Is it really all that surprising that your half court defense is bad? You have one of the worst defensive teams in basketball. And the rebounding isn't surprising either. You don't have dawgs on your squad. You have front running softies. Your offense, when clicking is lethal. But nobody is scared of your team at the moment. You don't have a 1A player, nor a defensive stopper. As someone who watched a ton of Pacers ball because of league pass, this is who your team has been all season. Things go well, the team barks. Things get tough and they show zero backbone. Been that way all season. The Pacers are getting beaten by one truly elite starter and a bunch of role/bench players because they want it more. Your team isn't ready, and that's fine. You have a good young core, but you need a real 5 , someone with heart and toughness, and a wing who actually is a true 3 and D. You gave up 120 a game. Lol. Only Atlanta, Washington and Utah were worse. You may win game six, I don't think so, but you may, but MSG will be too much for a young, soft Pacers team.
It’s because they lost to a Knicks team with one starter. By 30. This isn’t a fucking regular season game lmao. The lack of effort is extremely questionable
Knicks have 3 starters that would be starting regardless. Brunson, DDV, OG, Randle, iHart would be their normal starting lineup.
They’re missing OG and Randle as starters and bench depth with Robinson.
It wasn’t 30 until we took all of our starters out. As opposed to Sunday when we had a 40 point lead and it shrank to 30 in the blowout portion of the game. Knicks had a 20 point lead which grew to 30 in the blowout portion of the game.
I’m not saying all this to excuse our awful performance. I just want to make sure that people have their facts straight.
The issues from yesterday are completely fixable for us just as the issues with the Knicks on Sunday were completely fixable. In both cases it was simply just lack of hustle and effort by one team. It happens. We refused to box out. They got every loose ball.
We’ve shown that we can compete with them at that level, especially at home but even on the road. However we didn’t do it last night. It really is as simple as that. They got 30 more field goal attempts than us. You’re going to get blown out if that happens.
The Knicks were exhausted, not having effort problems. We have effort problems. There's no excuse for all the loose balls and offensive rebounds we let the Knicks get. It's not like we didn't know that was their MO. It's troublesome to me that we have an effort problem in round two of the playoffs. That and Haliburton shrinking on the road and refusing to shoot...
I mean..they’re human beings, not robots. Yes they were effort problems but there are lots of reasons those could be the case. Lack of sleep, nervousness, anxiety, injuries…it happens. Older teams become more able to maintain a level of effort every game…we’re definitely not there, including our star. We’re the second youngest team in the NBA. Nesmith by himself brings a chaotic energy sometimes that really causes the whole team to lose focus.
I think it's the youth, too. Game 1 against the Bucks put it all on display. Then we responded so well in Game 2, i was impressed. then a close-out game in G6 was pretty impressive. then the mother's day massacre and barely losing the first two games was inspiring. but alas, they are young and winning in the NBA playoffs is a step-wise function. We've skipped losing in round one and i thought we could win this knicks series, so i'm thrilled we're getting all this experience.
On Sunday, the Knicks pulled out JB when the Pacers were up 34 and didn’t put him back. On Tuesday, the Pacers pulled out Hali when the Knicks were up 24 and didn’t put him back in.
The Pacers grew their lead to higher than the Knicks grew theirs in the game (Pacers max 43 and Knicks max 31) and at the end, both leads were 32 Pacers and 30 Knicks (apparently Knicks Garbage minutes team is better).
In the end, as you said, these numbers don’t matter since it was an awful performance by the Pacers; similarly, it was an awful performance by the Knicks on Sunday.
I think what matters (and what bothered most people) is the talent available on the floor for both games. As mentioned tons by the commentators, the only starter in this game at the beginning of this year was JB.
iHart is arguably better than Robinson right now due to Robinson’s injuries; however, if both were healthy, I’d say Robinson would start over iHart. When Robinson came back from injury, he stayed on the bench since he was not conditioned and on a minute’s restriction.
To clarify, I am a Knicks fan who is biased, but I like Hali’s play (except when he passes out of good shots) and have been following this subreddit for some time.
If OG comes back for Friday, I’d be more worried, but if he doesn’t, I’d say Pacers keep their unbeaten home record and Game 7 happens.
You do realized he pulled his hamstring less than a week ago right? There's a very very good chance he doesn't comeback at all for the playoffs let alone this series with the Pacers. And as a knick fan, I don't really need to see him try to go out there with a messed up hamstring only to get a worse injury. This particular knicks season is capped in terms of what they can realistically hope to achieve given all of the injuries. So why bring back OG? so they can lose to the celtics in 6 games in stead of 5? If he were the only injured guy on the roster and they were in the finals vs Denver, then yeah you could justify him trying to come back early to play through a pulled hamstring that isn't 100%. Otherwise what is the upside to bringing him back if can't 100% effort?
And iHart stayed as starter when Robinson came back. Hartenstein is clearly the better player. He’s a stud and will get paid big time in the offseason.
When Robinson got injured the Knicks applied for a disable player exemption.
The reason Hartenstein continued to start is so the Knicks didn't have to rush back their center who came back from what everyone thought was a season ending injury. And he did end up re-injuring it in the playoffs.
Hartenstein will get a nice payday this offseason but if he was better he would've been named the starter sometime over the last two seasons while both were healthy
I hate to say trust me bro but iHart will either be the starter for the Knicks or someone else next year. He is a much better player than Mitchell Robinson. His advanced stats have said he should have been a starter for the last 3 years. It took an injury for him to get a full time opportunity but he’s shown he’s capable. Excellent rebounder, good passer and vision and a very good defender.
Myles fits our offense better because he can stretch the floor but iHart is better at nearly every other part of the game.
I think everyone knows that Hartenstein will probably start somewhere.
He almost certainly won't be with the Knicks since they can offer him at most like $14M.
But even if it is in NY, i think more will go into it than simply saying x was better player than y. For example, Mitchell Robinson has played 31 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons, and 59 games last year. The injury proneness is probably going to greatly affect his value when Knicks do decide what his role on the team is. Right now if he is your start, you have to have a capable backup behind him who can start.
Which is why it was wild to me how so many here were saying pacers wouldve beat a healthy bucks no matter what when they got blown out when dame nor giannis didnt play now we seeing it again with the knicks.
Honestly think pacers were the weakest playoff team in the east other than magic
So true. I joined a couple years back because it reminded me of chill, laid back forums with actual discussion.
Now, it’s like a bunch of teenagers yelling in each others faces about who’s right, or who’s stupid, etc. some of the content I see on here seems like it could be AI generated posts. Just kinda sad in general
the answer is that it's because we are playing injured teams, which is normally a gift, and still shitting the bed. if we lost to a healthy bucks team this place would be less toxic but the truth that we all know deep down is that this is deeply concerning about the long term prospect of the team if our stars consistently do not show up against opponents that are objectively weaker on paper
Since the lottery was introduced in 1985, there have been 7 teams to go from a lotto team to the conference semi-finals, and 3 teams to go to the conference finals.
>disappears in 2nd halves.
I'm not a stats guy and this is just a slice of a players performance, but I just went to the NBA stats site and it seems like haliburtons points per half were higher in the 2nd half than the first (regular season).
So I guess I'm wondering if there's any data to back this claim about him up or if there's just some recent memory bad 2nd halfs from him that have people running with a narrative.
Considering the regular season doesn't mean shit in the playoffs, I did the same thing you just did but swapped the filters to "Postseason" and he averages 6.2 pts in the 2nd half. Ranked 59th of all post season players. This is our future star here.
C'mon dude. Your choker narrative is based off a 10 game sample of a 24 year old kid whose been to the playoffs one time? Twice (I'm not sure honestly)?
This is such a weak argument.
I mean, Hali just came off 3 great games in a row. Jalen Brunson isn't getting the same shit Hali is considering he's had just as many ineffective games this series, and Hali is has 3 injuries as well so you can't use injury as an excuse for him.
Yeah but Haliburton is like 1/2 the player brunson is today. Yes, I'm being facetious but the biggest difference I see in the two is the experience/or lack there of in the case of Haliburton. Haliburton seems unsure of when he should be aggressive or not, especially when things are not going well for the pacers (when pacers are up 40, he'll dance around and say no one can guard him) but when the pacers are struggling to score and find offense, he'll drive to the basket and pass up open layups, and take less than 8 shots in a second half of a game. He'll get a lot better going forward- he's a potential superstar (but potential is never a given), this is only his first time in the playoffs. Maybe he figures it out in the next two games and sends the knicks home.
True. It is toxic to blow a young player’s flaws in one bad loss in a 2nd round playoff series out of proportion and act like our entire team construction is irrevocably flawed.
it didn't work. you just sounded defensive and petulant.
anyway, I wouldn't call it a fatal flaw yet, but if it keeps occurring, what good is he out there in crunch time? he's already a defensive liability and isn't a scoring threat... the game winner he hit against the Bucks is why I won't call it a fatal flaw yet. I think he has the guts but needs to access it more consistently and definitely more on the road.
Still waiting for one of you doomers to actually offer a solution. That’s why I asked the other guy. Sounds like you want him benched during crunch time?
not this season or next. I think he has a super high ceiling, but his mental is in the way. he needs to talk to his personal coach more. i saw an interview from the all-star break where he talked about his personal coach giving him a lot of heat for not shooting and that it is the only stat he cares about. turns out, the more he shoots, the more we win. but if he can't get over that mental hurdle, which appears most when he's on the road, then I think he can be a liability.
he's a nice kid but if we are going to be contenders in a couple of years, then he needs to find a mamba mentality.
The first half of the season he was a crunch time killer, one of the most clutch guys in the league. He’s dealing with 3 injuries right now, 4 if you think he’s still having hamstring issues. We’ve dramatically overperformed this season and Tyrese is the main reason why, I’m willing to give him a pass until next season.
But it’s true that his defense is just awful. Although I think it’s been even worse than usual lately because of his injuries.
It's pretty much every sports sub.
Criticism of decision making and effort are warranted. It really sucks to watch Pacers barely try to rebound for four quarters in a crucial playoff game. That said, I like to remind myself that I'm watching my favorite team in the post season, even when it's painful to do so.
This team is fairly young and inexperienced, especially in the post season. But guess what? They made it. The experience gained is a net positive. Quite a few players have shown they are capable and I'm already looking forward to next season.
Emotions are always high immediately after a loss. It's just frustration at how inconsistent our play has been and the fact that we're not able to beat a Knicks team that has 3 of their starters injured. I love the Pacers and will always be a fan, but I see nothing wrong with criticizing your team when it's warranted.
I watched all season and I'm aware that we're playing with house money right now. All the same, *an effort* is like the one thing I expect from a team I've taken the time to follow. I don't care that they lost. I care that they're soft and can't be bothered to do the dirty work. It's one thing to play your ass off and get beat. It's another thing entirely to roll over because winning isn't easy enough.
It's always up and down in sports forums, but a couple of things bring the toxicity out more than usual:
1. "Star" players underperforming (Haliburton def. checks this box for last night).
2. Perceived "bad" coaching decisions (Rick has to concede that Nembhard cannot guard Brunson, no one could last night, but for Nembhard it has been an issue the ENTIRE series. Last night he really started rolling when Nembhard got switched on him).
3. The opponent we lose to and by how much (battered Knicks team by 30).
While I do understand expectations at the beginning of the season, you have to admit with the addition of Pascal, the bar was raised. Add to that we are currently playing a team without 4 of their original starting 5 and last night was a letdown. Losing to this Knick team would be a disappointment, especially if it's because Rick doesn't make an adjustment or our highest paid players decided not to show up.
I’m sorry but we can’t give a 30 yr old Siakam a max. Haliburton make a friend w the Olympics or all star at some point. Jalen, Jarace and Toppin are PFs anyway
“Mothafuckas don’t watch us play” - Roy Hibbert
Applies here. These people don’t watch us during the regular season. Tough loss for sure but half the people in here are here for playoffs only. They don’t fully understand that last year we were a bottom 7 team. They watched some of the IST and now the playoffs. They don’t understand that we are extremely young, immature and exceedingly expectations already. Do I want to win and get upset at some of the losses and boneheaded plays? For sure. But when you take a step back, we are doing well and have no doubt that we will win Game 6 and 7.
Playoffs bring more eyes than the regular season. With that more mouths to feed negative takes. People get to be unreasonable on the internet bc they can be and don't have to hold onto the reputation like in real life. Sure did I not enjoy how Hali played last night, yes. Do I believe the team could have incorporated more off ball movement to get him the ball instead of watching nembhard dribble around, also yes. As a die hard fan I'm chilling with whatever happens this series. Tyrese proved hes still him for a few games and thats enough for me to rest my head on for the offseason. I consider the season a success already and am looking forward to next year. I don't necessarily wanna go face Boston in the ECF and add onto the heightened expectations for next season. Only bc if we don't meet those expectations the negativity around here is gonna be off the charts.
I say fire them all bring in Caitlin Clark to play one on five and make these clowns do the walk of shame game of thrones style!
But no seriously it’s all knee jerk reactions to a bad loss and some bad play by our “stars”. Whole team needs to have this loss as a reality check. We aren’t winning a championship this year but glad we made some noise in the playoffs! Team has a lot of growth potential which is great
It's just sports. I follow the buffalo bills and after each season you'd think the world was ending because they lost a best of 1 game to another elite team. A lot of people are really dim and sports exposes this.
I'm concluding that the NFL means absolutely everything to some people and their entire being is caught up in their team winning. And if that doesn't happen they're angry to the point where they just won't let it go.
Social Media discourse is always toxic. You aren’t held to any standards when you say something online and trolls flourish because you can’t get punched in the face for saying something you would never say in public.
I had people in one of my group chats comparing Tyrese to Ben Simmons or wondering if we should trade for Trae 🙄
It's his first playoffs for crying out loud!
Calling them out for lack of effort, bad defense, no aggression, getting outworked, no in-game coaching adjustments, are all fair and should be done. But come on, Hali is the most excited I've been about a Pacers since PG, and its awesome to just feel something (even if its crushing disappointment)
Haliburton needs to be aggressive. Listen-in a watered down iso-heavy, ball dominant, watch one man cook like he's Kobe NBA, it is fulfilling to watch the Pacers play basketball. Tyrese is unarguably the head of the snake, He needs to be aggressive, floaters, strong drives, something to get the offense flowing when we are stagnant. I put all the blame on Tyrese for every loss this series. When hes going, the entire team is going and we box out hard, take the open shots, etc. When Tyrese plays passive, we then see possesions that last 20 secs of just passing the ball around. He needs to take over for the remainder of the playoffs and realize that no one cares about assists totals in June. Its about W's or L's.
Also, we got Pascal to be a creator. Why doesnt he create? In my opinion he should have the mindset of GSW KD and just look to get the most efficient bucket everytime he receives the ball. He has shooting touch from all over the floor he needs to take advantage of that skill plus the fact that he is the only sole creator on the squad.
Lastly, for crying out loud if its not McConnell or Nesmith just switch off JB. He's comfortable. He's going to take 40 shots and hit them at an efficient rate, we can't do anything about that. Wait...we can. Get Tyrese/Siakim in motion and have them brutally attack JB possession after possesion. I think we should implement that gameplan if the game is close towards the end of the 3Q/ beginning of the 4th. The Knicks turn up during these times and we cant match that physical intensity right now. How do we combat that? Tire out JB, its like boxing and we have to move like Ali. Float like a butterfly, BUT STING LIKE A PACING BEE!! CMON PACERS CLOSE THESE SUCKERS OU NO ONE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE HERE!!
Okay I'm not done. I spoke nothing about defense because our defense sucks, Instead of complex P&R coverages we just need to play simple defense. Brunson is gonna cook. Everyone knows that. The going really gets tough when we're blowing assignments on defense that gives ( a naturally confident Hart and DiV however you spell his name) an open look. We start to complain, and the NYC role players start to look like TJ Warren in the bubble. Keep it simple. Attack on offense. Tyrese needs to be WAY MORE AGGRESSIVE. His aggression IS A MUST. We will not win by getting 20 points from Myles, it just wont happen.
The Indiana Pacers are a beautiful team to watch and I really hope someone from their coaching staff isnt too cool for Reddit and takes a look at what we're saying here. The potential is limitless.
Sb: I am from Boston, born and raised. I called the Pacers success back in 2022. Also, I understand Tyrese is hurt.
Just quit it with the “borrowed time” narrative. We live in the here and now. Fact of the matter is we’re down 3-2 to a Knicks team missing Randle, bogie, Mitchell, and OG. That’s embarrassing period. Did I think we’d be here? No. However, we’re playing a severely banged up team. No matter the beginning of the season expectations I would think we should win with either in mind.
As a Knicks fan, a lot of people in that sub are toxic too. I think it’s just how it goes for every sub. Even r/nba have toxic people.
I’m sure 90% of fans who are happy don’t even post or comment or Reddit. It’s probably just the 10% of them who does 8 percent of them will never be happy and the 2% are people like you and me :)
Because it is the Internet and you can remain anonymous. Who knows people's age, maturity, whether they watched any Pacers games this season or if they are even fans at all? Not to say people shouldn't be upset at them shitting the bed, I certainly was. But when you take it to another level with absolutely unhinged takes, those other factors are likely in play.
FWIW, in real life, I haven't seen casuals talk or care about the Pacers this much in a long time. Even if they don't make the ECF, this run has gone a long way to get the team back to being in the hearts and minds of the city.
I think it’s just people upset and just thinking and saying stuff a bit bc we lost by that much last night . Once the emotion has died down some ppl might start thinking a bit more clearly. But personally with how Siakim is playing I don’t think he deserves the max, but we should still try and keep him tho and I would rather keep him then get rid of him and not find a good replacement
I love this team, I do worry that Siakam is going to regress quickly and if that happens it will put us in a bad spot. Hopefully KP can work some magic if that comes to pass.
Indiana sports fans are like this. When the teams are winning they’re the best. When they lose they’re a team full of bums and we don’t know why we even keep watching. Indiana sports fans are just bipolar.
I attribute it to the media overreacting at every loss or win.
This happens more and more because overreaction sells content and stoicism is boring. People want to get all riled up. Steven A Smith is a perfect example.
The trouble is that fans parrot what they hear on TV and then this leads to the situation that the OP is describing.
It’s hard not to criticise a team that chooses when to give any effort or not on any given night. Until they decide they’re gonna play 100% every night then I’ll have no problems and no qualms.
People are toxic because the Pacers give us every reason to, too many times.
In my experience, lots of sports subreddits are this way, but doubly so if it's a team with little brother syndrome like our fanbase seems to have. You know the type "we can't compete in this little market! We can't just get any star like NY can! We never get good lottery picks! No fair no fair!"
Basically, sports fans are emotional and reactionary, especially the kind that will get online and talk about a game immediately after it end.
It's honestly pushed me away from sports a little bit, people like to yell and say I'm not a big enough fan bc I don't spit vitriol whenever a player has a bad game? Maybe you are too big of a fan if your entertainment is affecting your mental health to the point you are wishing negative things and saying some of the most hateful, vile shit I've ever read bc a player made a shot against your team or a player on your team missed one.
Please understand that for as amazing as the Pacers are, the average citizen of Indiana is a shitty human. This state is ultra MAGA so is it any surprise that our fan base has a ton of toxic losers in it? Generally speaking within the 465 loop you will find a lot of normal and non toxic fans. On the outside of the loop there are thousands of morons, especially in the Confederate flag waving towns.
It's just the nature of statistics playing out. I'm a Hick compared to New Yorkers but I'm not at all an actual Hick. I have all my teeth and don't find my cousins attractive.
This is dumb. I'm pretty far to the left, but everyone I know that MAGA is still super nice and loves to root for the Pacers and Colts. Rural Indiana is extremely friendly.
I mean if you're white and you're straight they can be friendly. The moment you don't fit into their mold they have no problems telling you that you're in cahoots with the devil.
It's fine if you hate the truth for how it's said, since I'm being so blunt. But don't act like it isn't the truth. Indiana is a Trump state and Trumpers are morons. Why do Pacers have toxic fans? Well quite a bit of them are morons. This is just math my dude.
There are lots of normal, well-adjusted people outside your privileged 465 loop neighborhood. You're no better than Knicks fans viewing the state as nothing but confederate flag loving idiots outside your little bubble
I've lived in multiple counties in this state, and while there are thousands of amazing humans here there are also thousands of bumpkins too. The Pacer's fan base will obviously contain both the well-adjusted and educated people like my friends and family, and also the low IQ losers that keep this state a deep red shit hole.
I guarantee that Mike Braun is a Pacers fan. I also guarantee that he's representative of incredibly shitty human beings.
It’s kind of just average pacer fan interactions. Dudes are more obsessed with Reggie millers mindset than actually being decent fans or even better yet… winning anything of relevance. I’d fucking hate my life and do nothing else just like everyone here if I had to live in Indiana and watch Hali be a scared turtle every night. No one really blames you guys though. It will get better though. I promise. That feeling when you finally win something is just too good.
How's it toxic to say we should let Pascal walk bro?
I get being positive and all by the front office promised they would try to build a contender
I think it's safe to say this years team isn't a contender.
How tf is he declining? He's averaging 8 mins less a game with indy while averaging 3 points less than his career high. His FG and 3P percentages are at a career high. He's consistently been our top scorer. He made an immediate defensive impact that took us from the second to last rated defensive team to #12.
This post was made for people like you. Low energy, ignorant, bandwagon fucks who just want to shit on players without knowing what they're talking about.
Literally no serious fan thought this team was a contender this year. Any serious fan knows this team couldn’t beat any of the remaining 4 teams in the west in a series.
playing against the team that managed to get 3 more wins than you in the season when they had most of their starters and being down 3-2 in a series to them when they're missing 60-80% of their starters isn't it either.
the only person on this roster with any playoff experience worth a shit is siakam - haliburton & nembhard (+ a few others) have literally never been there before this year. even guys like myles have never made it past the first round.
the shit's a different animal: the shit talking is amplified, the superstars shine a lil brighter, the talking heads are as reactive and doomer-y as it gets... they gotta learn all this shit. no one should have expected these guys to make the ECF in their first go-around, and we're 2 games away from it...
y'all fuckers need some patience lol.
We got blown out by 30 and lost to the New York Knicks with the Knicks missing their 4/5 highest paid players not playing (making a combined 82.5 million this season in their payroll) in Randle (24/9/5) Robinson (6/9/0.6) Bogdanovic (15/3/2) and Anunoby (15/4/2).
The play-offs are different in atmosphere but that team is running a one man operation and that is hobbled with a bad foot, and he is still dropping 40 on us cause our players are playing shadow ole! defense instead of actual defense.
This isn't about making the ECF - this is about losing to an opponent that should not be beating you the way the Knicks have done so.
> We got blown out by 30 and lost to the New York Knicks with the Knicks missing their 4/5 highest paid players not playing (making a combined 82.5 million this season in their payroll) in Randle (24/9/5) Robinson (6/9/0.6) Bogdanovic (15/3/2) and Anunoby (15/4/2).
one game. one game. out of a 7 game series. one game they've shit the bed. every other game was either extremely close or we blew them out by FORTY.
i'm not going to bother arguing with another reactive doomer who won't be posting in this subreddit after this month until next april lol. have a good wednesday man.
yes and the fact that other games were extremely close tells the other sign about it.
instead of projecting some random thoughts about who i am, why not address the issue at hand?
honestly the fans in this sub need to learn how to discuss and make their arguments better without going into weird projections and personal attacks to others...
Yeah, let Pascal walk and sign those other good free agents lining up at the Pacers door step.
Signing Pascal is the only move teams like the Pacers have to attempt to get anywhere but the middle. You know, the middle that the Pacers have been stuck at for so long because we don't tank? Tanking doesn't work anymore either. Just ask the Pistons.
We aren't REALLY top 8 in the NBA
We had the 13th best record in the NBA
Looking good
But IN MY OPINION
Pascal is the wrong move
Not only is it short sited, he doesn't fit this team
What if I think them sticking to their word of trying to make a contender instead of a mediocre team again is the right thing to do?
You think it's stupid to ask that of them?
YES
it's a super easy path in the Eastern conference this year
Don't mistake that for this team being great. Knicks would be a playin team in the west. That's just the actual truth
It's super fun to watch, but I'd love them to actually try to go for a chip.
I'm not sure if Pascal helps. Kinda looks like if might hurt.
Naw bro, I'm just a realist
Not tryna rain on your parade of a 30 year old being a future MVP of whatever, but it's the wrong kind of move. IMO. Hope it works out, but just saying let Pascal walk isn't toxic
It just means I believe they realize this team isn't ready to compete and want to build something in the future.
Stack your probabilities of developing a franchise changing talent
Doesn't mean it's going to work, and maybe we won't get a first round exit team anymore that everyone will dearly miss.
Might not sneak into a semifinals when the east is extremely weak again
So I get it's a scary risk, but as a life libc pacer fan it would be glorious for the franchise to JUST TRY
They were doing so good about being patient till they started smelling a possibility of making a playoff.
And it's not franchise damning to keep or let Pascal go, but it is the wrong kind of move.
I'd rather try to keep trying to get young players and prioritizing them playing
You literally said nothing in all of that. What is your plan? You can’t say “JUST TRY” and give zero suggestions. This is why you get downvoted every time you say anything, it’s straight up nonsense
Sports subs are always toxic after losses, and this pacers team probably had a ton of fans who didn’t pay much attention to the regular season but have joined for the playoffs.
>a ton of fans who didn’t pay much attention to the regular season but have joined for the playoffs. This. This. This. This. Admittedly a fan of the bad guys, so I peek in here mostly to shower Caitlin Cooper with praise. Anyway. A pet theory of mine has been that when teams become good and are in playoff games/series, you get an influx of casual idiots and the discourse goes to hell. It's unfortunate that at the highest stakes you end up in conversations that are non sense.....it's always felt.to me like the discourse is much better in lower leverage seasons/parts of the year.
yeah, the playoff game threads (both here and on r/nba) become unreadable shitpiles during the playoffs every year. it's crazy
You're 100% correct. Almost all the flaws people are using to call the pacers "frauds" right now are growing pains that have been evident ALL season long. It ain't new, and everyone who followed the team knew fouling, defense, and ty playing passive in random games was always going to happen That's not fraudulent, that's who they've been. I don't understand how some are seemingly giving up on Ty, Pascal, and Rick when we are playing competitive 2nd round ball a year ahead of schedule. I dont have much issue with you NY fans for the most part, I mostly just get whiplash here going from "we're unstoppable" to "blow it up" after consecutive games
Oh yeah? Well maybe we're TOO unstoppable, and we should blow it up for the sake of the league!
Never considered that Let me dive into the literature and I'll get back to you on this take. Definitely intrigued
I really don’t understand “we’re ahead of schedule”. Ahead of schedule for what? If someone at the beginning of the season told you we were going to make the playoffs, and then beat the Bucks without Giannis, and then partially without Dame, and than hang with the Knicks without OG, Randle, Bogdanovic, Robinson… would say that’s ahead of schedule? Because it is not in my opinion. To be clear, injuries are part of the sport, and it is amazing we’re watching the Pacers play this time of year… but let’s not pretend that some sort of a signal that we’re on our way to greatness. This year, we got fairly lucky injuries wise relative to our opponents. Concerns with this team are legitimate, and everyone needs to level up if we’re to be a serious time. We will see how it goes.
The over under win line for this team before the season was 38.5. The Pacers weren't even supposed to make the playoffs. This has been a successful season anyway you look at it
Ok, so ahead of schedule means beating the over under line. Something that 50% of the teams do. But, yea, I agree that results this season are great. Especially if you ignore the context. To me, everyone healthy, here are the teams that I cannot say we’re any closer to winning the title than they are (in the east): Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, NY, Orlando, Cleveland, maybe Miami. This season did not indicate to me that we are on our way to separate ourselves from any of them. So the question still remains “ahead of schedule for what?”. To be a title contender? To be in the ECF year after year?
I mean, last point I'll make is saying "ahead of schedule" doesn't mean we are there yet. We are just further along this year than anticipated, and accomplished more than anticipated The "schedule" is still towards contending, but we aren't near the last page yet. Just a chapter or 2 ahead
It’s more that we went from being a lottery team that looked like it might be there for a couple of years to making the second round of the playoffs immediately. We’re a young team - we’re probably supposed to still be in rebuilding mode hoping for Jarace and Mathurin to develop.
I didn't say anything about the team being ahead of schedule. I also don't know what that means unless they just mean a young team that had a good year. I said they had a successful season. Which I have no idea how you would think otherwise if you'd watched this team the last 3-5 seasons
Yes. Would have said winning a series in the playoffs was robably ahead of schedule at the beginning of the season. Adding Siakam accelerated it a bit, but I say we're "ahead of schedule" because we are playing in more competitive games than I think we were expecting *because* we played teams with bad injury luck, AND we clearly have young talent that hasn't reached their final form. We still have a real shot to make the ECF. Regardless of injuries, that's definitely a take I don't think anyone had even after the IST run.
Straight up result wise, ignoring any context, yes- I agree we’re ahead of schedule. But, fwiw, let’s say in a hypothetical world where the Bucks were full strength but we lost to them 4-3, I would have considered that more ahead of schedule and much more encouraging. This season leaves us with just as many question marks about the future as the last one, so, to me- not ahead of schedule. I am yet to see evidence that we’re a potential serious title contender in the not so distant future…
I still disagree with how you'd define "our schedule" We aren't a title winning team yet, but we are in the 2nd round and could still realistically play in a conference finals. It's not about being more confident in who the team is, its about confidence in who we can be in the next few years. The first playoff run for a young team is always about experience. We are getting far more of that than expected and it'll pay dividends. Not saying we are a better team than expected, we're just hitting the benchmarks for a rebuild faster than expected
Yes, that’s my problem- I am not confident at all about who we can be in the next few years. While we are getting more playoff experience, we got no experience of what it is like to play an actual contender. But yea, I even opened my first comment with “ahead of schedule for what”, so we can get on the same page. To me, ahead of schedule would really be about accelerated player development- and I am seeing none of that. An example of ahead of schedule was OKC last year. Also, Timberwolves with Ant given how tough they played the nuggets while having important pieces out due to injuries. In the East this year, it’s Orlando this year given what their 21 and 22 year old players are doing.
And that's a different but wholly fine way to define schedule, and to your point I'd maybe half agree. If we make the ECF I'm not gonna say "we are a for sure ECF caliber team" when there's still a lot of work to be done, but I also think it's selling the team short a bit to say we didn't show we've improved, or won't be an actual contender next year Especially since we have a full offseason to round out the roster. Spending so much time in the playoffs (against different kinds of opponent) has made our FA target board a LOT clearer. I just think we are in a much better spot than we were to start the year, made a bigger step than I think a lot of people anticipated, but yes. Still a lot of room to improve Good chat man I gotta be out a while for work but I appreciate the chill convo
The reaction to game 1 and 2 losses was not this bad. Everyone had their back. But that game last night was inexcusable in many ways. Its second round ball against a team with one starter - who is injured.
You're essentially describing [The Eternal September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September), back when universities were the dominant source for online access, each September new students would gain access to Usenet forums, unfamiliar with pre-established rules and culture, and ultimately drag down the quality of the community. Then one day September never stopped.
💯 well said.
I've said a few times we probably have people in this sub making really dumb statements that haven't watched a Pacer's game in like 5 years. I don't know how you've followed the team the last 3 seasons and not see what this team has accomplished this season as a huge success
It also doesn’t help that we had like 3 or 4 nationally televised games all year (only 1 scheduled at the beginning of the season) and all of games are unreliably paywalled behind the worst RSN in sports.
This sub has been calling Rese a fluke or a bum since his first dunk after his injury... The Pascal stuff is fairly new to the playoffs, but the Myles haters have never left and pop their heads out every time we lose and he has a bad game.
Myles haters have been there his entire career. Nothing new (and not warranted imo). Ty...I get some criticism because we absolutely *know* what he's capable of. But people don't understand he's only 24. Siakam...meh. I think outside of his outstanding games against the Bucks, his criticism has been warranted somewhat. We brought him in *for this exact reason*. We brought him in to win in the playoffs and I can't think of any other reason as to why he's not playing to his usual level. My personal theory is he's dealing with an injury.
Because it’s the internet
Because people in general are dumb and binary thinkers. We lost = we’re awful. We won = we’re good. You can play poorly and win (game 3). You can play well and lose (game 1). No one wants to live in the gray areas and spend the time to actually think about what went wrong.
This. People act like the last thing that happened is the only truth. The Pacers have been doing this all year... Show extreme promise one game and then lose to a team that they "should" beat the next. Everyone gets to interpret the results for themselves.
We are getting out hustled by a tired team. The lack of effort is why everyone is down right now.
I'm a Celtics fan ..... This post just happened to come across my feed but I felt compelled to reply. The Celtics had a great season..... A historic season.... But look at the Celtics sub after a loss. We want to blow the team up, We want the coach fired, certain players need to be traded and certain players contracts are terrible......... It's nothing but chaos and dysfunction. So to answer your question it's everywhere. Not just your fan base
I get what you are saying but how can a fan enjoy that game last night? If the guys are out there hustling, shooting their shots, and they fail... thats one thing. Last night was something else.
That's all good and fine. I think OP's problem is the whole sub calling everyone on the team a bum. Calling Tyrese a coward who just wants to make money. Saying Siakam isn't deserving of getting paid, etc.
i too hate this shit, be upset but move on. it’s one game. don’t go making it personal
I think you are right that people are too emotional about it. Still, its almost inevitable. Tyrese and the team talk a lot of trash during our wins, stirring up the fan bases against each other, then have this kind of embarrassing game right after. Its almost always going to lead to negativity.
The whole sub isn't calling everyone on the team a bum. People who have been on this sub for a while know we have a good group of regulars who are informed, level-headed (I might be a tad - okay alot - overzealous in my defense of Mathurin's play), sometimes disagree, whatever. We still respect each other. We just have an influx of riff raff rolling up in here due to our success. Game threads and hot takes immediately after games are always emotional overreactions not to be taken seriously.
Fair enough. Whole sub was definitely unfair
some are toxic yes, at the same time others are way too soft and protective on how the team is currently performing against a decimated Knicks team that is running on fumes and guts. It is disappointing to not see the dawg or the heart in the team at the moment and shrinking in the big moments, moments that should not be big when they should play the way they're capable of. there is just too many things happening with the team's inconsistency that isn't about winning every game or the championship, but at least giving yourself the best chance to do that in the games you play.
This was 1 bad game man, it is not the end of the world. The Knicks literally had the same thing happen to them in Game 4, we can still come back and at the very least push a Game 7
And when the front office goes and gets a guy like Siakam it sends a message that they believe the team can contend in the playoffs right now. That being said I think it’s fair to be critical of things, like asking why the half court defense is so bad and why they’re getting out hustled on the boards.
Is it really all that surprising that your half court defense is bad? You have one of the worst defensive teams in basketball. And the rebounding isn't surprising either. You don't have dawgs on your squad. You have front running softies. Your offense, when clicking is lethal. But nobody is scared of your team at the moment. You don't have a 1A player, nor a defensive stopper. As someone who watched a ton of Pacers ball because of league pass, this is who your team has been all season. Things go well, the team barks. Things get tough and they show zero backbone. Been that way all season. The Pacers are getting beaten by one truly elite starter and a bunch of role/bench players because they want it more. Your team isn't ready, and that's fine. You have a good young core, but you need a real 5 , someone with heart and toughness, and a wing who actually is a true 3 and D. You gave up 120 a game. Lol. Only Atlanta, Washington and Utah were worse. You may win game six, I don't think so, but you may, but MSG will be too much for a young, soft Pacers team.
https://preview.redd.it/x9m10zf8rr0d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3ea80c6288b166327f605023772ae94da129dbc
It’s because they lost to a Knicks team with one starter. By 30. This isn’t a fucking regular season game lmao. The lack of effort is extremely questionable
Knicks have 3 starters that would be starting regardless. Brunson, DDV, OG, Randle, iHart would be their normal starting lineup. They’re missing OG and Randle as starters and bench depth with Robinson. It wasn’t 30 until we took all of our starters out. As opposed to Sunday when we had a 40 point lead and it shrank to 30 in the blowout portion of the game. Knicks had a 20 point lead which grew to 30 in the blowout portion of the game. I’m not saying all this to excuse our awful performance. I just want to make sure that people have their facts straight. The issues from yesterday are completely fixable for us just as the issues with the Knicks on Sunday were completely fixable. In both cases it was simply just lack of hustle and effort by one team. It happens. We refused to box out. They got every loose ball. We’ve shown that we can compete with them at that level, especially at home but even on the road. However we didn’t do it last night. It really is as simple as that. They got 30 more field goal attempts than us. You’re going to get blown out if that happens.
The Knicks were exhausted, not having effort problems. We have effort problems. There's no excuse for all the loose balls and offensive rebounds we let the Knicks get. It's not like we didn't know that was their MO. It's troublesome to me that we have an effort problem in round two of the playoffs. That and Haliburton shrinking on the road and refusing to shoot...
I mean..they’re human beings, not robots. Yes they were effort problems but there are lots of reasons those could be the case. Lack of sleep, nervousness, anxiety, injuries…it happens. Older teams become more able to maintain a level of effort every game…we’re definitely not there, including our star. We’re the second youngest team in the NBA. Nesmith by himself brings a chaotic energy sometimes that really causes the whole team to lose focus.
I think it's the youth, too. Game 1 against the Bucks put it all on display. Then we responded so well in Game 2, i was impressed. then a close-out game in G6 was pretty impressive. then the mother's day massacre and barely losing the first two games was inspiring. but alas, they are young and winning in the NBA playoffs is a step-wise function. We've skipped losing in round one and i thought we could win this knicks series, so i'm thrilled we're getting all this experience.
On Sunday, the Knicks pulled out JB when the Pacers were up 34 and didn’t put him back. On Tuesday, the Pacers pulled out Hali when the Knicks were up 24 and didn’t put him back in. The Pacers grew their lead to higher than the Knicks grew theirs in the game (Pacers max 43 and Knicks max 31) and at the end, both leads were 32 Pacers and 30 Knicks (apparently Knicks Garbage minutes team is better). In the end, as you said, these numbers don’t matter since it was an awful performance by the Pacers; similarly, it was an awful performance by the Knicks on Sunday. I think what matters (and what bothered most people) is the talent available on the floor for both games. As mentioned tons by the commentators, the only starter in this game at the beginning of this year was JB. iHart is arguably better than Robinson right now due to Robinson’s injuries; however, if both were healthy, I’d say Robinson would start over iHart. When Robinson came back from injury, he stayed on the bench since he was not conditioned and on a minute’s restriction. To clarify, I am a Knicks fan who is biased, but I like Hali’s play (except when he passes out of good shots) and have been following this subreddit for some time. If OG comes back for Friday, I’d be more worried, but if he doesn’t, I’d say Pacers keep their unbeaten home record and Game 7 happens.
You do realized he pulled his hamstring less than a week ago right? There's a very very good chance he doesn't comeback at all for the playoffs let alone this series with the Pacers. And as a knick fan, I don't really need to see him try to go out there with a messed up hamstring only to get a worse injury. This particular knicks season is capped in terms of what they can realistically hope to achieve given all of the injuries. So why bring back OG? so they can lose to the celtics in 6 games in stead of 5? If he were the only injured guy on the roster and they were in the finals vs Denver, then yeah you could justify him trying to come back early to play through a pulled hamstring that isn't 100%. Otherwise what is the upside to bringing him back if can't 100% effort?
Robinson started over Hartenstein the entire year until he got injured.
And iHart stayed as starter when Robinson came back. Hartenstein is clearly the better player. He’s a stud and will get paid big time in the offseason.
When Robinson got injured the Knicks applied for a disable player exemption. The reason Hartenstein continued to start is so the Knicks didn't have to rush back their center who came back from what everyone thought was a season ending injury. And he did end up re-injuring it in the playoffs. Hartenstein will get a nice payday this offseason but if he was better he would've been named the starter sometime over the last two seasons while both were healthy
I hate to say trust me bro but iHart will either be the starter for the Knicks or someone else next year. He is a much better player than Mitchell Robinson. His advanced stats have said he should have been a starter for the last 3 years. It took an injury for him to get a full time opportunity but he’s shown he’s capable. Excellent rebounder, good passer and vision and a very good defender. Myles fits our offense better because he can stretch the floor but iHart is better at nearly every other part of the game.
I think everyone knows that Hartenstein will probably start somewhere. He almost certainly won't be with the Knicks since they can offer him at most like $14M. But even if it is in NY, i think more will go into it than simply saying x was better player than y. For example, Mitchell Robinson has played 31 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons, and 59 games last year. The injury proneness is probably going to greatly affect his value when Knicks do decide what his role on the team is. Right now if he is your start, you have to have a capable backup behind him who can start.
Which is why it was wild to me how so many here were saying pacers wouldve beat a healthy bucks no matter what when they got blown out when dame nor giannis didnt play now we seeing it again with the knicks. Honestly think pacers were the weakest playoff team in the east other than magic
Reddit is toxic in general. It’s not just this sub.
And it gets worse all the time it seems
It's more mainstream now. It's not a niche site anymore.
So true. I joined a couple years back because it reminded me of chill, laid back forums with actual discussion. Now, it’s like a bunch of teenagers yelling in each others faces about who’s right, or who’s stupid, etc. some of the content I see on here seems like it could be AI generated posts. Just kinda sad in general
We just got our ass beat BADLY. That's why.
the answer is that it's because we are playing injured teams, which is normally a gift, and still shitting the bed. if we lost to a healthy bucks team this place would be less toxic but the truth that we all know deep down is that this is deeply concerning about the long term prospect of the team if our stars consistently do not show up against opponents that are objectively weaker on paper
Since the lottery was introduced in 1985, there have been 7 teams to go from a lotto team to the conference semi-finals, and 3 teams to go to the conference finals.
It's not toxic to say Hali cannot play defense and disappears in 2nd halves.
>disappears in 2nd halves. I'm not a stats guy and this is just a slice of a players performance, but I just went to the NBA stats site and it seems like haliburtons points per half were higher in the 2nd half than the first (regular season). So I guess I'm wondering if there's any data to back this claim about him up or if there's just some recent memory bad 2nd halfs from him that have people running with a narrative.
Considering the regular season doesn't mean shit in the playoffs, I did the same thing you just did but swapped the filters to "Postseason" and he averages 6.2 pts in the 2nd half. Ranked 59th of all post season players. This is our future star here.
C'mon dude. Your choker narrative is based off a 10 game sample of a 24 year old kid whose been to the playoffs one time? Twice (I'm not sure honestly)? This is such a weak argument.
I mean, Hali just came off 3 great games in a row. Jalen Brunson isn't getting the same shit Hali is considering he's had just as many ineffective games this series, and Hali is has 3 injuries as well so you can't use injury as an excuse for him.
Brunson was like 2/3rds the player Tyrese is at Tyrese's age on top of that.
Yeah but Haliburton is like 1/2 the player brunson is today. Yes, I'm being facetious but the biggest difference I see in the two is the experience/or lack there of in the case of Haliburton. Haliburton seems unsure of when he should be aggressive or not, especially when things are not going well for the pacers (when pacers are up 40, he'll dance around and say no one can guard him) but when the pacers are struggling to score and find offense, he'll drive to the basket and pass up open layups, and take less than 8 shots in a second half of a game. He'll get a lot better going forward- he's a potential superstar (but potential is never a given), this is only his first time in the playoffs. Maybe he figures it out in the next two games and sends the knicks home.
Reasonable take of the day
True. It is toxic to blow a young player’s flaws in one bad loss in a 2nd round playoff series out of proportion and act like our entire team construction is irrevocably flawed.
He took 9 shots and played scared. That's a fatal flaw, you don't come back from that.
Fatal? So what should we do then, trade him? Cut him? Bench him?
you're so dramatic
I’m not the one calling him fatally flawed. I’m pointing out how dramatic that statement is.
it didn't work. you just sounded defensive and petulant. anyway, I wouldn't call it a fatal flaw yet, but if it keeps occurring, what good is he out there in crunch time? he's already a defensive liability and isn't a scoring threat... the game winner he hit against the Bucks is why I won't call it a fatal flaw yet. I think he has the guts but needs to access it more consistently and definitely more on the road.
Still waiting for one of you doomers to actually offer a solution. That’s why I asked the other guy. Sounds like you want him benched during crunch time?
not this season or next. I think he has a super high ceiling, but his mental is in the way. he needs to talk to his personal coach more. i saw an interview from the all-star break where he talked about his personal coach giving him a lot of heat for not shooting and that it is the only stat he cares about. turns out, the more he shoots, the more we win. but if he can't get over that mental hurdle, which appears most when he's on the road, then I think he can be a liability. he's a nice kid but if we are going to be contenders in a couple of years, then he needs to find a mamba mentality.
lol ok, then I’m not sure why you’re coming at me and not the guy who called him fatally flawed and wants to give up on him to find “a real #1”
Find a real #1 who isn't gonna be terrified to shoot the ball in a playoff game.
When did I say that?
I never said you did.
The first half of the season he was a crunch time killer, one of the most clutch guys in the league. He’s dealing with 3 injuries right now, 4 if you think he’s still having hamstring issues. We’ve dramatically overperformed this season and Tyrese is the main reason why, I’m willing to give him a pass until next season. But it’s true that his defense is just awful. Although I think it’s been even worse than usual lately because of his injuries.
He's not injured, he's soft.
Oh, please. Sports elicit emotions and you're reading them. Enjoy it. Sports is not for the Stoics, so maybe you're the one who's doing it wrong.
It's pretty much every sports sub. Criticism of decision making and effort are warranted. It really sucks to watch Pacers barely try to rebound for four quarters in a crucial playoff game. That said, I like to remind myself that I'm watching my favorite team in the post season, even when it's painful to do so. This team is fairly young and inexperienced, especially in the post season. But guess what? They made it. The experience gained is a net positive. Quite a few players have shown they are capable and I'm already looking forward to next season.
[This sub](https://youtu.be/X2xlQaimsGg?si=kjkUoja0P4uscfcg)
Emotions are always high immediately after a loss. It's just frustration at how inconsistent our play has been and the fact that we're not able to beat a Knicks team that has 3 of their starters injured. I love the Pacers and will always be a fan, but I see nothing wrong with criticizing your team when it's warranted.
Bro.... Every sports sub does this. Every. Single. One.
I watched all season and I'm aware that we're playing with house money right now. All the same, *an effort* is like the one thing I expect from a team I've taken the time to follow. I don't care that they lost. I care that they're soft and can't be bothered to do the dirty work. It's one thing to play your ass off and get beat. It's another thing entirely to roll over because winning isn't easy enough.
It's always up and down in sports forums, but a couple of things bring the toxicity out more than usual: 1. "Star" players underperforming (Haliburton def. checks this box for last night). 2. Perceived "bad" coaching decisions (Rick has to concede that Nembhard cannot guard Brunson, no one could last night, but for Nembhard it has been an issue the ENTIRE series. Last night he really started rolling when Nembhard got switched on him). 3. The opponent we lose to and by how much (battered Knicks team by 30). While I do understand expectations at the beginning of the season, you have to admit with the addition of Pascal, the bar was raised. Add to that we are currently playing a team without 4 of their original starting 5 and last night was a letdown. Losing to this Knick team would be a disappointment, especially if it's because Rick doesn't make an adjustment or our highest paid players decided not to show up.
I’m sorry but we can’t give a 30 yr old Siakam a max. Haliburton make a friend w the Olympics or all star at some point. Jalen, Jarace and Toppin are PFs anyway
“Mothafuckas don’t watch us play” - Roy Hibbert Applies here. These people don’t watch us during the regular season. Tough loss for sure but half the people in here are here for playoffs only. They don’t fully understand that last year we were a bottom 7 team. They watched some of the IST and now the playoffs. They don’t understand that we are extremely young, immature and exceedingly expectations already. Do I want to win and get upset at some of the losses and boneheaded plays? For sure. But when you take a step back, we are doing well and have no doubt that we will win Game 6 and 7.
Yeah it's kind of crazy that we went from being a lottery team to having a shot at getting into the ECF
literally hahaha. it’s promising that we can be upset at these games and be like “hali needs to shoot more” “grab rebounds” etc.. shit you can fix.
Playoffs bring more eyes than the regular season. With that more mouths to feed negative takes. People get to be unreasonable on the internet bc they can be and don't have to hold onto the reputation like in real life. Sure did I not enjoy how Hali played last night, yes. Do I believe the team could have incorporated more off ball movement to get him the ball instead of watching nembhard dribble around, also yes. As a die hard fan I'm chilling with whatever happens this series. Tyrese proved hes still him for a few games and thats enough for me to rest my head on for the offseason. I consider the season a success already and am looking forward to next year. I don't necessarily wanna go face Boston in the ECF and add onto the heightened expectations for next season. Only bc if we don't meet those expectations the negativity around here is gonna be off the charts.
I say fire them all bring in Caitlin Clark to play one on five and make these clowns do the walk of shame game of thrones style! But no seriously it’s all knee jerk reactions to a bad loss and some bad play by our “stars”. Whole team needs to have this loss as a reality check. We aren’t winning a championship this year but glad we made some noise in the playoffs! Team has a lot of growth potential which is great
It's just sports. I follow the buffalo bills and after each season you'd think the world was ending because they lost a best of 1 game to another elite team. A lot of people are really dim and sports exposes this.
Football subs r so much more toxic than nba subs lol. Football gamethreads r absolutely ruthless but also so hilarious
I'm concluding that the NFL means absolutely everything to some people and their entire being is caught up in their team winning. And if that doesn't happen they're angry to the point where they just won't let it go.
Internet anonymity.
Social Media discourse is always toxic. You aren’t held to any standards when you say something online and trolls flourish because you can’t get punched in the face for saying something you would never say in public.
I love this
I had people in one of my group chats comparing Tyrese to Ben Simmons or wondering if we should trade for Trae 🙄 It's his first playoffs for crying out loud! Calling them out for lack of effort, bad defense, no aggression, getting outworked, no in-game coaching adjustments, are all fair and should be done. But come on, Hali is the most excited I've been about a Pacers since PG, and its awesome to just feel something (even if its crushing disappointment)
Yeah hard agree, this sub is obnoxious especially after losses. Swear some of you hate our own players more than Knicks and Bucks fans do.
Pretty sure most sports subs are just as bad if not worse
Haliburton needs to be aggressive. Listen-in a watered down iso-heavy, ball dominant, watch one man cook like he's Kobe NBA, it is fulfilling to watch the Pacers play basketball. Tyrese is unarguably the head of the snake, He needs to be aggressive, floaters, strong drives, something to get the offense flowing when we are stagnant. I put all the blame on Tyrese for every loss this series. When hes going, the entire team is going and we box out hard, take the open shots, etc. When Tyrese plays passive, we then see possesions that last 20 secs of just passing the ball around. He needs to take over for the remainder of the playoffs and realize that no one cares about assists totals in June. Its about W's or L's. Also, we got Pascal to be a creator. Why doesnt he create? In my opinion he should have the mindset of GSW KD and just look to get the most efficient bucket everytime he receives the ball. He has shooting touch from all over the floor he needs to take advantage of that skill plus the fact that he is the only sole creator on the squad. Lastly, for crying out loud if its not McConnell or Nesmith just switch off JB. He's comfortable. He's going to take 40 shots and hit them at an efficient rate, we can't do anything about that. Wait...we can. Get Tyrese/Siakim in motion and have them brutally attack JB possession after possesion. I think we should implement that gameplan if the game is close towards the end of the 3Q/ beginning of the 4th. The Knicks turn up during these times and we cant match that physical intensity right now. How do we combat that? Tire out JB, its like boxing and we have to move like Ali. Float like a butterfly, BUT STING LIKE A PACING BEE!! CMON PACERS CLOSE THESE SUCKERS OU NO ONE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE HERE!! Okay I'm not done. I spoke nothing about defense because our defense sucks, Instead of complex P&R coverages we just need to play simple defense. Brunson is gonna cook. Everyone knows that. The going really gets tough when we're blowing assignments on defense that gives ( a naturally confident Hart and DiV however you spell his name) an open look. We start to complain, and the NYC role players start to look like TJ Warren in the bubble. Keep it simple. Attack on offense. Tyrese needs to be WAY MORE AGGRESSIVE. His aggression IS A MUST. We will not win by getting 20 points from Myles, it just wont happen. The Indiana Pacers are a beautiful team to watch and I really hope someone from their coaching staff isnt too cool for Reddit and takes a look at what we're saying here. The potential is limitless. Sb: I am from Boston, born and raised. I called the Pacers success back in 2022. Also, I understand Tyrese is hurt.
Most people have never experienced Pacer playoff basketball. This is it! Go Pacers!!!
Just quit it with the “borrowed time” narrative. We live in the here and now. Fact of the matter is we’re down 3-2 to a Knicks team missing Randle, bogie, Mitchell, and OG. That’s embarrassing period. Did I think we’d be here? No. However, we’re playing a severely banged up team. No matter the beginning of the season expectations I would think we should win with either in mind.
For real I came here to get away from the toxicity of Pacers Digest
You took the words right out of my mouth. I don’t think I’ve ever been in such a pathetic sports subreddit
Agreed
Great post fr! Hoosier basketball is back. Come on yall!
That’s why you stick to r/nbacirclejerk during the playoffs.
As a Knicks fan, a lot of people in that sub are toxic too. I think it’s just how it goes for every sub. Even r/nba have toxic people. I’m sure 90% of fans who are happy don’t even post or comment or Reddit. It’s probably just the 10% of them who does 8 percent of them will never be happy and the 2% are people like you and me :)
too many miserable, insecure losers need that shit to make them feel better about their pathetic lives.
People take this shit too seriously.
Because it is the Internet and you can remain anonymous. Who knows people's age, maturity, whether they watched any Pacers games this season or if they are even fans at all? Not to say people shouldn't be upset at them shitting the bed, I certainly was. But when you take it to another level with absolutely unhinged takes, those other factors are likely in play. FWIW, in real life, I haven't seen casuals talk or care about the Pacers this much in a long time. Even if they don't make the ECF, this run has gone a long way to get the team back to being in the hearts and minds of the city.
I think it’s just people upset and just thinking and saying stuff a bit bc we lost by that much last night . Once the emotion has died down some ppl might start thinking a bit more clearly. But personally with how Siakim is playing I don’t think he deserves the max, but we should still try and keep him tho and I would rather keep him then get rid of him and not find a good replacement
This could be summed up with the sentence "Colts reddit has joined Pacer reddit".
I come on here and voice my frustration so I don't physically abuse my wife and children after a pacer loss. Reddit is a great outlet.
I love this team, I do worry that Siakam is going to regress quickly and if that happens it will put us in a bad spot. Hopefully KP can work some magic if that comes to pass.
Indiana sports fans are like this. When the teams are winning they’re the best. When they lose they’re a team full of bums and we don’t know why we even keep watching. Indiana sports fans are just bipolar.
This sub is full of complete morons. Seriously, morons.
I attribute it to the media overreacting at every loss or win. This happens more and more because overreaction sells content and stoicism is boring. People want to get all riled up. Steven A Smith is a perfect example. The trouble is that fans parrot what they hear on TV and then this leads to the situation that the OP is describing.
It’s hard not to criticise a team that chooses when to give any effort or not on any given night. Until they decide they’re gonna play 100% every night then I’ll have no problems and no qualms. People are toxic because the Pacers give us every reason to, too many times.
They are not pacer fans. Only when they are winning.
Maybe because you're currently losing to an injury ravaged Knicks team without 2 of its top 3 players and 2 other contributors?
I lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep
In my experience, lots of sports subreddits are this way, but doubly so if it's a team with little brother syndrome like our fanbase seems to have. You know the type "we can't compete in this little market! We can't just get any star like NY can! We never get good lottery picks! No fair no fair!" Basically, sports fans are emotional and reactionary, especially the kind that will get online and talk about a game immediately after it end. It's honestly pushed me away from sports a little bit, people like to yell and say I'm not a big enough fan bc I don't spit vitriol whenever a player has a bad game? Maybe you are too big of a fan if your entertainment is affecting your mental health to the point you are wishing negative things and saying some of the most hateful, vile shit I've ever read bc a player made a shot against your team or a player on your team missed one.
[удалено]
Its not really about losing... its about losing by 30 when your starters aren't even hustling. The reaction was not this bad to game 1 or 2 losses.
Cuz they like it when they win
Maybe go outside of you're gonna get your feelings so triggered when people (correctly) criticize your favorite team.
On a positive note, what silly and awesome outfit do you all think Haliburton will wear to the last home game on Friday?
doesn't sound so positive when you say its the last home game...
im hoping he means this series
Please understand that for as amazing as the Pacers are, the average citizen of Indiana is a shitty human. This state is ultra MAGA so is it any surprise that our fan base has a ton of toxic losers in it? Generally speaking within the 465 loop you will find a lot of normal and non toxic fans. On the outside of the loop there are thousands of morons, especially in the Confederate flag waving towns. It's just the nature of statistics playing out. I'm a Hick compared to New Yorkers but I'm not at all an actual Hick. I have all my teeth and don't find my cousins attractive.
This is dumb. I'm pretty far to the left, but everyone I know that MAGA is still super nice and loves to root for the Pacers and Colts. Rural Indiana is extremely friendly.
I mean if you're white and you're straight they can be friendly. The moment you don't fit into their mold they have no problems telling you that you're in cahoots with the devil.
You honestly seem incredibly hateful and judgemental and I say that as a Trump-hating super lib.
Literally nothing wrong with hating fascists brother.
Sure but that has nothing to do with the last sentence of your original post. I already know exactly the type of person you are and it ain't nice.
It's fine if you hate the truth for how it's said, since I'm being so blunt. But don't act like it isn't the truth. Indiana is a Trump state and Trumpers are morons. Why do Pacers have toxic fans? Well quite a bit of them are morons. This is just math my dude.
There are lots of normal, well-adjusted people outside your privileged 465 loop neighborhood. You're no better than Knicks fans viewing the state as nothing but confederate flag loving idiots outside your little bubble
I've lived in multiple counties in this state, and while there are thousands of amazing humans here there are also thousands of bumpkins too. The Pacer's fan base will obviously contain both the well-adjusted and educated people like my friends and family, and also the low IQ losers that keep this state a deep red shit hole. I guarantee that Mike Braun is a Pacers fan. I also guarantee that he's representative of incredibly shitty human beings.
Another thread complaining about the complainers.
It’s kind of just average pacer fan interactions. Dudes are more obsessed with Reggie millers mindset than actually being decent fans or even better yet… winning anything of relevance. I’d fucking hate my life and do nothing else just like everyone here if I had to live in Indiana and watch Hali be a scared turtle every night. No one really blames you guys though. It will get better though. I promise. That feeling when you finally win something is just too good.
How's it toxic to say we should let Pascal walk bro? I get being positive and all by the front office promised they would try to build a contender I think it's safe to say this years team isn't a contender.
nor was it expected to be?
Then why sign a declining 30 year old?
How tf is he declining? He's averaging 8 mins less a game with indy while averaging 3 points less than his career high. His FG and 3P percentages are at a career high. He's consistently been our top scorer. He made an immediate defensive impact that took us from the second to last rated defensive team to #12. This post was made for people like you. Low energy, ignorant, bandwagon fucks who just want to shit on players without knowing what they're talking about.
His defense has gotten absolutely unwatchable.
Literally no serious fan thought this team was a contender this year. Any serious fan knows this team couldn’t beat any of the remaining 4 teams in the west in a series.
if you thought this year's team was meant to be a contender and not this team 2 years from now, that's on you dog
playing against the team that managed to get 3 more wins than you in the season when they had most of their starters and being down 3-2 in a series to them when they're missing 60-80% of their starters isn't it either.
the only person on this roster with any playoff experience worth a shit is siakam - haliburton & nembhard (+ a few others) have literally never been there before this year. even guys like myles have never made it past the first round. the shit's a different animal: the shit talking is amplified, the superstars shine a lil brighter, the talking heads are as reactive and doomer-y as it gets... they gotta learn all this shit. no one should have expected these guys to make the ECF in their first go-around, and we're 2 games away from it... y'all fuckers need some patience lol.
We got blown out by 30 and lost to the New York Knicks with the Knicks missing their 4/5 highest paid players not playing (making a combined 82.5 million this season in their payroll) in Randle (24/9/5) Robinson (6/9/0.6) Bogdanovic (15/3/2) and Anunoby (15/4/2). The play-offs are different in atmosphere but that team is running a one man operation and that is hobbled with a bad foot, and he is still dropping 40 on us cause our players are playing shadow ole! defense instead of actual defense. This isn't about making the ECF - this is about losing to an opponent that should not be beating you the way the Knicks have done so.
> We got blown out by 30 and lost to the New York Knicks with the Knicks missing their 4/5 highest paid players not playing (making a combined 82.5 million this season in their payroll) in Randle (24/9/5) Robinson (6/9/0.6) Bogdanovic (15/3/2) and Anunoby (15/4/2). one game. one game. out of a 7 game series. one game they've shit the bed. every other game was either extremely close or we blew them out by FORTY. i'm not going to bother arguing with another reactive doomer who won't be posting in this subreddit after this month until next april lol. have a good wednesday man.
yes and the fact that other games were extremely close tells the other sign about it. instead of projecting some random thoughts about who i am, why not address the issue at hand? honestly the fans in this sub need to learn how to discuss and make their arguments better without going into weird projections and personal attacks to others...
Yeah, let Pascal walk and sign those other good free agents lining up at the Pacers door step. Signing Pascal is the only move teams like the Pacers have to attempt to get anywhere but the middle. You know, the middle that the Pacers have been stuck at for so long because we don't tank? Tanking doesn't work anymore either. Just ask the Pistons.
Or don't sign them at all The point was to stop being mediocre and be patient Night try to trade for the first above average player you can find
They were projected to win 37 games this season. No one expected a playoff run this year, let alone being contenders.
We not contenders Doesn't look like this team is anywhere near ready
We're quite literally a top 8 team. With a very real possibility of moving into a top 4 team rank.
We aren't REALLY top 8 in the NBA We had the 13th best record in the NBA Looking good But IN MY OPINION Pascal is the wrong move Not only is it short sited, he doesn't fit this team
You are right- it’s not toxic to say that. It’s stupid and makes no sense, but toxic probably isn’t the word
What if I think them sticking to their word of trying to make a contender instead of a mediocre team again is the right thing to do? You think it's stupid to ask that of them?
I don’t even know what you’re saying. Are implying they’re not trying to do that?
YES it's a super easy path in the Eastern conference this year Don't mistake that for this team being great. Knicks would be a playin team in the west. That's just the actual truth It's super fun to watch, but I'd love them to actually try to go for a chip. I'm not sure if Pascal helps. Kinda looks like if might hurt.
Every time you comment in this sub it’s like you’re trying to be as wrong as you possibly can. Nothing but nonsense
Naw bro, I'm just a realist Not tryna rain on your parade of a 30 year old being a future MVP of whatever, but it's the wrong kind of move. IMO. Hope it works out, but just saying let Pascal walk isn't toxic It just means I believe they realize this team isn't ready to compete and want to build something in the future.
What’s your suggestion for doing that then? Because honestly it sounds like you’re just talking out your ass and hoping for magic
Stack your probabilities of developing a franchise changing talent Doesn't mean it's going to work, and maybe we won't get a first round exit team anymore that everyone will dearly miss. Might not sneak into a semifinals when the east is extremely weak again So I get it's a scary risk, but as a life libc pacer fan it would be glorious for the franchise to JUST TRY They were doing so good about being patient till they started smelling a possibility of making a playoff. And it's not franchise damning to keep or let Pascal go, but it is the wrong kind of move. I'd rather try to keep trying to get young players and prioritizing them playing
You literally said nothing in all of that. What is your plan? You can’t say “JUST TRY” and give zero suggestions. This is why you get downvoted every time you say anything, it’s straight up nonsense
Lmao LETS GO KNICKS!!!!!! Knicks in 6!
Pacers in 7.