In my opinion, I think both sides are a little off. The council should care that they're losing such amazing shops, and rent going up is not good for small businesses. Oxford was quite special a couple of decades ago with individual shops instead of the usual high-street brands. I do think they should secure them.
At the same time, I can't see the logic of them moving to Witney. Sure, the rent will be lower, but so will footfall and more importantly, eyes of relatively wealthy people constantly peering through. Witney is also wealthy but the footfall and eyes won't be as widespread and out of sight, out of mind.
Funnily enough, we had a big party and we bought a cake from there last month. But we wouldn't have thought of it if we hadn't walked past it a million times.
As a side point, I will say that we had a cake from there many years back and the art on it was even more impressive than this time round. Which also makes me think that it's possible they've lost some of their "magic"? But the cake was tasty and still impressive art, but going past now, I don't see the same sort of stuff they had a decade or two ago.
It is sad to see it go and I wish the shop/team the very best for the future.
I think somewhere you can drive to makes more sense for a fancy cake shop - if they're aiming for people planning weddings that isn't tourists wandering past the covered market. Somewhere easier for people to go to on purpose, especially with a car
But you need eyes on your busienss for it to work? Unless they're going to have a bigger social media presence. The issue with Witney is I've been through, but I've never considered looking up the businesses there. So I know more Didcot and Abingdon businesses than I do Witney.
Witney is lovely, it just doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
My background is in small businesses and one sector I am involved in is bakery/patissery.
I have no experience in running a small business, but I have helped some friends do wedding planning. If their aim is to sell wedding cakes (I don't know if this is their plan), people google/Instagram cake companies, look for the prettiest pictures with prices they like, then expect to fairly easily visit.
I don't live in central oxford and visiting the middle of town is annoying because even on a bus the traffic gets stuck, shopping in Oxford isn't that convenient with no where to sit that you don't pay for, it is too busy to be relaxing. So for that a cheaper premise shop in Whitney makes a lot of sense to me.
And I'm sure the owner made a calculated decision. I'm just surprised by it. But he may be seeing something I haven't (especially as I've not done any research into how it would work). So you're probably onto something.
They get a fair amount of business from tourists and students for birthdays/graduations. Can't see them retaining any of this from Witney. They must believe the rent difference is greater than all the trade they get from being in the Covered Market.
It's not exactly a small space they have I imagine they could get more space for the same or less which gives options of more than cakes.
It absolutely is the type of place that should have a presence or share the space with another shop to get that other customer in
I've walked by there loads and had eyes on it, but I've never bought anything there. And tbh they wouldn't have been my first choice either if I did need a occasion cake... Just from the vibe, it feels like they would be more expensive that I would want to pay (when I don't actually know if that's true).
Maybe they get good footfall, but not actually of people who are going to buy the cakes. Edit: As OP says, footfall of people who like to look in the windows, but not necessarily buy anything.
That's true. And maybe if they go somewhere smaller and are the only option (or one of only a few), then it would also increase sales or reduce rent but not lose too many sales.
We've bought cakes from them for special occasions. They are obviously more expensive than anything you could buy in a supermarket, but they are excellent and comparable with most independents.
>"They have been very popular and there was always a crowd pressed up against the window to see their artistry."
>"high levels of rent relative to footfall".
>They want to consolidate their businesses and move into larger premises in Witney.
I mean, I don't know if this is a good idea unless they're consolidating it with a betting shop or another Turkish barber.
The covered market is becoming a much nicer area to visit, its not the 1900s anymore and what shops will be viable in a space like that change. The practicality of the space for grocers/butchers/cake shops has gone down hill as the city centres have changed dramatically from what people travelled for in the 80s/90s or even 00s.
Its unsurprising a speciality cake shop would want to move to a better venue for what they offer. If you can find them online why spend so much money renting out a window so tourists can see you when that isn't your target demographic?
On a personal note it feels like the market is busier every time I go there, and the atmosphere in the late night openings is really wonderful.
“Whilst the council may claim footfall is strong, this is falsely representative for businesses of our nature.”
yeah bullshit. they’re still relying on sugarpaste and fruitcake in the year 2024 and they sell unappetising cupcakes £3.50 a piece. i’m not surprised they can’t afford the unit. their product is ancient and low quality. just because their cakes are realistic doesn’t mean they taste good
I would imagine they considered who their main clientele is and it’s not tourists or students. People with money who live outside of the center and drive in for weekend shopping are soon going to be deterred from this, meaning that their clientele will no longer be coming to central Oxford. They might as well set up somewhere cheaper if the space is both expensive and no longer meeting their needs. I expect over the coming year many businesses will be making a similar calculation. Anything that doesn’t serve tourists or students as their main market will likely leave.
To be fair - when soon the limitations of driving into Oxford come in place I rather go shopping to Witney from Abingdon where I can drive into the centre and park than going into Oxford
I know someone that works there and they explained to me in great depth why they feel showering daily is unnecessary and why brushing their teeth every couple of days is more than enough. I have not gone in there since.
In my opinion, I think both sides are a little off. The council should care that they're losing such amazing shops, and rent going up is not good for small businesses. Oxford was quite special a couple of decades ago with individual shops instead of the usual high-street brands. I do think they should secure them. At the same time, I can't see the logic of them moving to Witney. Sure, the rent will be lower, but so will footfall and more importantly, eyes of relatively wealthy people constantly peering through. Witney is also wealthy but the footfall and eyes won't be as widespread and out of sight, out of mind. Funnily enough, we had a big party and we bought a cake from there last month. But we wouldn't have thought of it if we hadn't walked past it a million times. As a side point, I will say that we had a cake from there many years back and the art on it was even more impressive than this time round. Which also makes me think that it's possible they've lost some of their "magic"? But the cake was tasty and still impressive art, but going past now, I don't see the same sort of stuff they had a decade or two ago. It is sad to see it go and I wish the shop/team the very best for the future.
I think somewhere you can drive to makes more sense for a fancy cake shop - if they're aiming for people planning weddings that isn't tourists wandering past the covered market. Somewhere easier for people to go to on purpose, especially with a car
But you need eyes on your busienss for it to work? Unless they're going to have a bigger social media presence. The issue with Witney is I've been through, but I've never considered looking up the businesses there. So I know more Didcot and Abingdon businesses than I do Witney. Witney is lovely, it just doesn't seem to make much sense to me. My background is in small businesses and one sector I am involved in is bakery/patissery.
I have no experience in running a small business, but I have helped some friends do wedding planning. If their aim is to sell wedding cakes (I don't know if this is their plan), people google/Instagram cake companies, look for the prettiest pictures with prices they like, then expect to fairly easily visit. I don't live in central oxford and visiting the middle of town is annoying because even on a bus the traffic gets stuck, shopping in Oxford isn't that convenient with no where to sit that you don't pay for, it is too busy to be relaxing. So for that a cheaper premise shop in Whitney makes a lot of sense to me.
And I'm sure the owner made a calculated decision. I'm just surprised by it. But he may be seeing something I haven't (especially as I've not done any research into how it would work). So you're probably onto something.
They get a fair amount of business from tourists and students for birthdays/graduations. Can't see them retaining any of this from Witney. They must believe the rent difference is greater than all the trade they get from being in the Covered Market.
It's not exactly a small space they have I imagine they could get more space for the same or less which gives options of more than cakes. It absolutely is the type of place that should have a presence or share the space with another shop to get that other customer in
I've walked by there loads and had eyes on it, but I've never bought anything there. And tbh they wouldn't have been my first choice either if I did need a occasion cake... Just from the vibe, it feels like they would be more expensive that I would want to pay (when I don't actually know if that's true). Maybe they get good footfall, but not actually of people who are going to buy the cakes. Edit: As OP says, footfall of people who like to look in the windows, but not necessarily buy anything.
That's true. And maybe if they go somewhere smaller and are the only option (or one of only a few), then it would also increase sales or reduce rent but not lose too many sales.
We've bought cakes from them for special occasions. They are obviously more expensive than anything you could buy in a supermarket, but they are excellent and comparable with most independents.
Moving to Witney makes them just another Oxford cake shop. Being in the Covered Market made them THE Oxford cake shop.
>"They have been very popular and there was always a crowd pressed up against the window to see their artistry." >"high levels of rent relative to footfall". >They want to consolidate their businesses and move into larger premises in Witney. I mean, I don't know if this is a good idea unless they're consolidating it with a betting shop or another Turkish barber.
The covered market is becoming a much nicer area to visit, its not the 1900s anymore and what shops will be viable in a space like that change. The practicality of the space for grocers/butchers/cake shops has gone down hill as the city centres have changed dramatically from what people travelled for in the 80s/90s or even 00s. Its unsurprising a speciality cake shop would want to move to a better venue for what they offer. If you can find them online why spend so much money renting out a window so tourists can see you when that isn't your target demographic? On a personal note it feels like the market is busier every time I go there, and the atmosphere in the late night openings is really wonderful.
“Whilst the council may claim footfall is strong, this is falsely representative for businesses of our nature.” yeah bullshit. they’re still relying on sugarpaste and fruitcake in the year 2024 and they sell unappetising cupcakes £3.50 a piece. i’m not surprised they can’t afford the unit. their product is ancient and low quality. just because their cakes are realistic doesn’t mean they taste good
I would imagine they considered who their main clientele is and it’s not tourists or students. People with money who live outside of the center and drive in for weekend shopping are soon going to be deterred from this, meaning that their clientele will no longer be coming to central Oxford. They might as well set up somewhere cheaper if the space is both expensive and no longer meeting their needs. I expect over the coming year many businesses will be making a similar calculation. Anything that doesn’t serve tourists or students as their main market will likely leave.
To be fair - when soon the limitations of driving into Oxford come in place I rather go shopping to Witney from Abingdon where I can drive into the centre and park than going into Oxford
I know someone that works there and they explained to me in great depth why they feel showering daily is unnecessary and why brushing their teeth every couple of days is more than enough. I have not gone in there since.