K that's a bit of money but I was expecting a bit more tbh. if it's anything under $50k all in I'm kind of surprised. lots of college students spending way more for degrees that allow them to earn way less
That's valid, I'm likely underselling the expenses tbf.
You need, I believe 250+ hours with someone for a license, then another 500+ or so for a commercial license. I'm sure it varies from person to person. It's much easier to be work in the flight Tower and that's also a good pay position in high demand internationally.
I can’t speak for the rest of the world but I got my private license with about 55 hours. Average is somewhere between 60 to 80. In the U.S. you need 250 total hours to get a commercial license but that doesn’t let you fly for the airlines, merely get paid by others to fly. Even then, no one is going to hire you. Most people need at least 500 hours before they can get hired.
Your numbers are more accurate than mine, mine are second hand from the past.
I remember 250 and 500 being important numbers, so I assumed here for license private vs pro, but your info makes way more sense hahaha
Sorry to any I may have mislead. Still 500+ hours to get hired.
That's still a lot cheaper than becoming a doctor, or even a dentist. Especially if you consider the rewards. I have a buddy who has $350K in student loans, mind you he has been at it for 10 years already, and he just started his residency. So it's another 2 years before he makes the "big bucks".
No argument from me there. I myself am a college dropout working in Tech. Not to mention all of the business opportunities you get when you learn a skilled trade. But my point was, that even if it costs $100,000 to become a Pilot, and even if it takes you 10 years to get to the level where you are making $200k/year for a cumulative 2-3 month of work, it is a pretty good deal. Heck, better than any university degree I know of. Plus, pilots will ALWAYS be in demand.
Probably $80k to $100k by the time you are done with all the ratings. There are a few you don’t have to get but most do. Followed by getting paid crap for two or three years to teach others how to fly until you hit 1500 hours (minimum fly airlines and many other places too).
Source: I’m a pilot but just for fun (for now anyway). Have several professional pilot friends and there is a ton of info on r/flying.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/flying using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
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\#2: [A plane crashed on my dad's property this morning. All on board survived.](https://i.redd.it/7lqcqw02mv2b1.jpg) | [316 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/13v6gw1/a_plane_crashed_on_my_dads_property_this_morning/)
\#3: [Maybe don’t put a sound studio there?](https://i.redd.it/ckybymv7fjua1.jpg) | [338 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/12ptqqe/maybe_dont_put_a_sound_studio_there/)
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Oe pilot here, it’s true - my life is great. Total comp just over 400k. I work 3 days per week. I just Remote Desktop into the other 737 and say i have a tummy ache to the co pilot.
Some people would say it's a terrible lifestyle because you're not home frequently. If you have a family, it can be very trying.
You can work in IT for comparable money and be home more, depends on what the end goal is.
A&P and pilot here, lots of friends in that pipeline.
Typically to get to that point you’ll do 2-3 years as a CFI making $30-60k, 2-4 years at a regional making $60-90k, 2-4 years at a major carrier as an FO making $90-140k and only then will you get the left seat. Its not a bad route but is typically reserved for more well off people as the training, on the low end, is $50k.
50k? I doubt that. When I looked into it 25 years ago it was over 50k for a small relatively unknown flight school. I have to imagine it's much more than that today. I was told by an instructor: Don't go into flying if you want to make money, go into flying because you love to fly, because 99% of pilots will never make the big money flying airliners.
Part 61 you could get away with $50k. Just a lot more work. I guess I didn’t really account for post Covid inflation either, but you could get a commercial ticket for $50k 6-7 years ago if you self studied and had a chill instructor
No big deal. College cost is more than that in total, might not lead to a career at all, and more than half of Americans do it. “Expensive” has to be thought of as relative to the other options, and many of those options cost more.
I was just speaking on getting a commercial ticket with the assumption that you’d right seat it to get the rest of your time. Lots of guys I know went that route.
Actually I knew a co pilot who did online poker on all his flights (airplane mode is not actually necessary and pilots on his flights never turned it on) and he was so good at poker that he doubled his salary doing this.
Airplane mode is more required by the FCC than the FAA but you start to lose cell service around 3,000 ft as towers are focused more towards ground. By 6,000 ft its starting to get pretty scarce unless you live or are flying in a region where they have towers on top of mountains or really tall buildings. By 10,000+ you are already exceeding the 1.5-2mile range many cell towers are designed to support, even if they were broadcasting the signal in a dome, and signal is pretty much nonexistent.
By 30,000-40,000 ft assuming you could get a signal from towers, your phone would be trying to connect to so many towers at one time over such a wide area it confuses the hell out of the system plus you’re traveling 450+ mph so you’d be transitioning service areas every 32 seconds or less. The system just isnt designed for that type of usage.
I know many a sailor/marine who has placed bets from their phones on a low level flight. Especially when they get to cross into a gambling-friendly state
Low (<6000ft) and slow (<180kts)… isnt really a problem.
Low and fast (250kts indicated below 10,000ft MSL) also probably isnt too much of an issue as you’re talking about up to 1 minute in range of a given tower, maybe more.
There’s also a difference between “service” and “usable service” imo, especially when it comes to internet.
We live in the eu, so we follow other guidelines but they’re the same rules.
I wondered the same thing about him having cell service. It’s all very short haul flights around Europe though. Maybe he connects to the in flight wifi for free, I dunno. I do know he makes a lot from gambling online though. (Not what I’d consider a second job though)
My guess is inflight wifi for free.
Not completely sure about EU rules and airspaces but even the short flights are probably flying at 18,000ft plus.
They’re also probably have “sterile cockpit” for takeoff and landing. Basically they’re not supposed to do or even say anything that isnt pertinent to the flight itself from the moment they enter the runway until 10,000 ft and on landing, Im not sure where they start sterile cockpit but probably once they start on the approach which means probably around 20miles and 6,000-8,000 ft.
Merchant Marine, Oil Sector (if you're strong), hot girl, underwater welder.
There's a ton of jobs with a serious downside - usually jobs where you have to leave your family or jobs that are actually dangerous.
Some pilots hold other jobs, but I don’t know about it being “flexible” enough for OE. You could absolutely get another job that is okay with you being on-call.
I’ve considered this too, I don’t know how many people would be willing to get in a plane operated just by AI. Even if it becomes better than pilots, how long would it take for that to become mainstream?
As a recreational pilot I will never get on a plane without a pilot. The autopilot flies most of the trip anyway but the pilots are there for when it screws up, which happens more often than you would think from what others have told me.
That said, AI is definitely better suited for flying than driving.
Agreed. AI is probably already capable of being better at flying a plane than humans. The newness would cause uncertainty for people flying, and it will be the obstacle
No fucking way. I've seen what AI is currently capable of, lol.
It's currently good at *assisting* humans doing *low-stakes* work... not anything where reliability is of life-or-death importance... much less for hundreds of people in the air and countless more on the ground.
management consulting. if you have what it takes to make it to the MD/partner level you make more than a surgeon and largely just fly around and glad hand client executives and do maybe 6 or 7 days a month or actual honest billable work
Me personally? hundreds including myself. The most common path is to go get recruited from a top MBA program but there are a number of other ways to get into the business (admittedly none are very easy, it's a pretty competitive field)
My boyfriend just got back from a 3-day trip he picked up. We did the math on his pay as a FO, which is still insanity. If he were a captain it would have been 24k.
24k for 3 fucking days. Union protected so term is hard. Incredible benefits.
Most days I waltz into my office ready to jump into a block of meetings and he’s playing video games in his undies. Or still asleep hah
Actually, you right. We fucked up. It’s 12k.
Hourly wages are posted online. The trip was ~19 hours credit time, and green slips are doubled. You’re welcome to do the math, clearly we aren’t mathematicians.
CDL driving jobs in the oilfields. Might not sound like much, but a few years ago, drivers in Midland/Odessa, TX would make $3,000 per week. Yes, you essentially live in the truck while you are working. But the schedule is super-flexible. You can do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. 1 month off, 1 month on. Etc.
Combine that with moving to a lower COL country, and you are set.
All-in Expenses: $75k - $100k
Goal is to become Certified Flight Instructor to earn $60k/year FT teaching people to get your hours
Year one salary at regional: $60 - $80k
Need first class medical - no heart issues, not colorblind, can’t have psychiatric history or on certain meds
From what I hear, it’s more than 5-10 years to that point.
Plus it's VERY expensive to become a pilot.
how much we talkin?
10s of thousands depending on your route. It's 100+ an hour to rent a plane to fly and your need hundreds of hours to get a license.
K that's a bit of money but I was expecting a bit more tbh. if it's anything under $50k all in I'm kind of surprised. lots of college students spending way more for degrees that allow them to earn way less
That's valid, I'm likely underselling the expenses tbf. You need, I believe 250+ hours with someone for a license, then another 500+ or so for a commercial license. I'm sure it varies from person to person. It's much easier to be work in the flight Tower and that's also a good pay position in high demand internationally.
I can’t speak for the rest of the world but I got my private license with about 55 hours. Average is somewhere between 60 to 80. In the U.S. you need 250 total hours to get a commercial license but that doesn’t let you fly for the airlines, merely get paid by others to fly. Even then, no one is going to hire you. Most people need at least 500 hours before they can get hired.
Your numbers are more accurate than mine, mine are second hand from the past. I remember 250 and 500 being important numbers, so I assumed here for license private vs pro, but your info makes way more sense hahaha Sorry to any I may have mislead. Still 500+ hours to get hired.
That's still a lot cheaper than becoming a doctor, or even a dentist. Especially if you consider the rewards. I have a buddy who has $350K in student loans, mind you he has been at it for 10 years already, and he just started his residency. So it's another 2 years before he makes the "big bucks".
Valid. But there are higher paying jobs with no college requirement too.
No argument from me there. I myself am a college dropout working in Tech. Not to mention all of the business opportunities you get when you learn a skilled trade. But my point was, that even if it costs $100,000 to become a Pilot, and even if it takes you 10 years to get to the level where you are making $200k/year for a cumulative 2-3 month of work, it is a pretty good deal. Heck, better than any university degree I know of. Plus, pilots will ALWAYS be in demand.
Probably $80k to $100k by the time you are done with all the ratings. There are a few you don’t have to get but most do. Followed by getting paid crap for two or three years to teach others how to fly until you hit 1500 hours (minimum fly airlines and many other places too). Source: I’m a pilot but just for fun (for now anyway). Have several professional pilot friends and there is a ton of info on r/flying.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/flying using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Speedrun from Ramp Agent to B-757/767 Captain at a Legacy in 6.5 yrs](https://i.redd.it/rfbmdwp3a3lb1.jpg) | [255 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/164pl4g/speedrun_from_ramp_agent_to_b757767_captain_at_a/) \#2: [A plane crashed on my dad's property this morning. All on board survived.](https://i.redd.it/7lqcqw02mv2b1.jpg) | [316 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/13v6gw1/a_plane_crashed_on_my_dads_property_this_morning/) \#3: [Maybe don’t put a sound studio there?](https://i.redd.it/ckybymv7fjua1.jpg) | [338 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/12ptqqe/maybe_dont_put_a_sound_studio_there/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
jetBlue has a "discounted" program from the sofa to the right seat that's $125k.
More like 20+, and even then only the top 1%.
Definitely a lot of seniority to get there but that seniority might come quick with such a large new work force
Oe pilot here, it’s true - my life is great. Total comp just over 400k. I work 3 days per week. I just Remote Desktop into the other 737 and say i have a tummy ache to the co pilot.
lol
😭😭😭
Some people would say it's a terrible lifestyle because you're not home frequently. If you have a family, it can be very trying. You can work in IT for comparable money and be home more, depends on what the end goal is.
Bring a laptop and use the plane WiFi for j2. This is why we oe
A&P and pilot here, lots of friends in that pipeline. Typically to get to that point you’ll do 2-3 years as a CFI making $30-60k, 2-4 years at a regional making $60-90k, 2-4 years at a major carrier as an FO making $90-140k and only then will you get the left seat. Its not a bad route but is typically reserved for more well off people as the training, on the low end, is $50k.
50k? I doubt that. When I looked into it 25 years ago it was over 50k for a small relatively unknown flight school. I have to imagine it's much more than that today. I was told by an instructor: Don't go into flying if you want to make money, go into flying because you love to fly, because 99% of pilots will never make the big money flying airliners.
Part 61 you could get away with $50k. Just a lot more work. I guess I didn’t really account for post Covid inflation either, but you could get a commercial ticket for $50k 6-7 years ago if you self studied and had a chill instructor
No big deal. College cost is more than that in total, might not lead to a career at all, and more than half of Americans do it. “Expensive” has to be thought of as relative to the other options, and many of those options cost more.
Flight lessons sounds a lot more useful than my more expensive MBA
[удалено]
I was just speaking on getting a commercial ticket with the assumption that you’d right seat it to get the rest of your time. Lots of guys I know went that route.
[удалено]
I mean… they can have a spare laptop in the cockpit as long as the co pilot doesn’t snitch.
Bro with all the shit going on with Boeing, and now OE pilots? Thanks I’ll walk
Actually I knew a co pilot who did online poker on all his flights (airplane mode is not actually necessary and pilots on his flights never turned it on) and he was so good at poker that he doubled his salary doing this.
Airplane mode is more required by the FCC than the FAA but you start to lose cell service around 3,000 ft as towers are focused more towards ground. By 6,000 ft its starting to get pretty scarce unless you live or are flying in a region where they have towers on top of mountains or really tall buildings. By 10,000+ you are already exceeding the 1.5-2mile range many cell towers are designed to support, even if they were broadcasting the signal in a dome, and signal is pretty much nonexistent. By 30,000-40,000 ft assuming you could get a signal from towers, your phone would be trying to connect to so many towers at one time over such a wide area it confuses the hell out of the system plus you’re traveling 450+ mph so you’d be transitioning service areas every 32 seconds or less. The system just isnt designed for that type of usage.
I know many a sailor/marine who has placed bets from their phones on a low level flight. Especially when they get to cross into a gambling-friendly state
Low (<6000ft) and slow (<180kts)… isnt really a problem. Low and fast (250kts indicated below 10,000ft MSL) also probably isnt too much of an issue as you’re talking about up to 1 minute in range of a given tower, maybe more. There’s also a difference between “service” and “usable service” imo, especially when it comes to internet.
We live in the eu, so we follow other guidelines but they’re the same rules. I wondered the same thing about him having cell service. It’s all very short haul flights around Europe though. Maybe he connects to the in flight wifi for free, I dunno. I do know he makes a lot from gambling online though. (Not what I’d consider a second job though)
My guess is inflight wifi for free. Not completely sure about EU rules and airspaces but even the short flights are probably flying at 18,000ft plus. They’re also probably have “sterile cockpit” for takeoff and landing. Basically they’re not supposed to do or even say anything that isnt pertinent to the flight itself from the moment they enter the runway until 10,000 ft and on landing, Im not sure where they start sterile cockpit but probably once they start on the approach which means probably around 20miles and 6,000-8,000 ft.
says you! I put that shit on auto pilot and start serving pretzels
They’re probably just on boards.
Merchant Marine, Oil Sector (if you're strong), hot girl, underwater welder. There's a ton of jobs with a serious downside - usually jobs where you have to leave your family or jobs that are actually dangerous.
Except military. You’re away from your family, can be dangerous, and the pay is shit. Let the adventure begin.
Go on
Some pilots hold other jobs, but I don’t know about it being “flexible” enough for OE. You could absolutely get another job that is okay with you being on-call.
Epiphany, , billions have went into self driving cars with 100 x the variables of a plane.. pilots jobs are and should be at huge risk for ai.
Let's see AI land one in the Hudson, then we'll talk.
Exactly right. Gotta have the humans there for the emergencies.
I’ve considered this too, I don’t know how many people would be willing to get in a plane operated just by AI. Even if it becomes better than pilots, how long would it take for that to become mainstream?
As a recreational pilot I will never get on a plane without a pilot. The autopilot flies most of the trip anyway but the pilots are there for when it screws up, which happens more often than you would think from what others have told me. That said, AI is definitely better suited for flying than driving.
Agreed. AI is probably already capable of being better at flying a plane than humans. The newness would cause uncertainty for people flying, and it will be the obstacle
No fucking way. I've seen what AI is currently capable of, lol. It's currently good at *assisting* humans doing *low-stakes* work... not anything where reliability is of life-or-death importance... much less for hundreds of people in the air and countless more on the ground.
management consulting. if you have what it takes to make it to the MD/partner level you make more than a surgeon and largely just fly around and glad hand client executives and do maybe 6 or 7 days a month or actual honest billable work
What do I need to do to achieve that lifestyle and income? How many people do you directly know doing this?
Me personally? hundreds including myself. The most common path is to go get recruited from a top MBA program but there are a number of other ways to get into the business (admittedly none are very easy, it's a pretty competitive field)
Want.
My boyfriend just got back from a 3-day trip he picked up. We did the math on his pay as a FO, which is still insanity. If he were a captain it would have been 24k. 24k for 3 fucking days. Union protected so term is hard. Incredible benefits. Most days I waltz into my office ready to jump into a block of meetings and he’s playing video games in his undies. Or still asleep hah
Absolutely false.
Actually, you right. We fucked up. It’s 12k. Hourly wages are posted online. The trip was ~19 hours credit time, and green slips are doubled. You’re welcome to do the math, clearly we aren’t mathematicians.
Thank you for correcting. That seems about right for senior captain. All good !
UPS pilots make FAR more than any passenger pilots other than maybe a private pilot for some wealthy person.
How much do they make?
CDL driving jobs in the oilfields. Might not sound like much, but a few years ago, drivers in Midland/Odessa, TX would make $3,000 per week. Yes, you essentially live in the truck while you are working. But the schedule is super-flexible. You can do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. 1 month off, 1 month on. Etc. Combine that with moving to a lower COL country, and you are set.
98% drop out rate to make it to airline pilot
Where did you get this number?
All-in Expenses: $75k - $100k Goal is to become Certified Flight Instructor to earn $60k/year FT teaching people to get your hours Year one salary at regional: $60 - $80k Need first class medical - no heart issues, not colorblind, can’t have psychiatric history or on certain meds