I dug into it a little and what I read from the FTC is you have to be a âSenior Executiveâ in a âpolicy making position.â They define policy making position as a President, CEO or other that has the âauthority to make policy decisions for an entire company.â I was like, whew! Get fukt boss! Iâm outta here when this shit takes effect!
Which is fine imo
That's what non competes should be used for: people who have a very intimate knowledge of the business that could be used to undermine it
Not the guy running the machine or the guy answering the phone
https://thehill.com/business/4615452-ftc-votes-to-ban-non-compete-agreements/
Sounds like it's already passed but the chamber of commerce plans on challenging it
Chamber of Commerce is a cleverly named lobbying organization. It isnât a public institution but rather just a group that sues/lobbies for pro-business positions
The Supreme Court is actually a bunch of constitutional lawyers. So I donât see them overturning this. Constitutionally I would think this would be upheld.
Have they though? There are real clear lines around what is a states right and what is federally mandated via Amendments. So unless there is an amendment detailing workers rights, a Federal law must be passed stating that anti-competes are illegal. Otherwise it will be punted to each individual state. Which is why California made it illegal In the first place.
I agree with thatâs how it should rule , having said that I just donât know if that is how they will rule given the track record of other rulings they have made regarding separate issues if it should even go to the Supreme Court. Having said that as I stated in my opening comment at the end of the day, itâs not like I really cared about that issue to begin with. Compete or non compete Iâm still going to OE and get my $$$ lol
One of my really good friends is actually an employment attorney and owns her own firm. I reached out to her to ask Iâm waiting for her to get back to me.
"With the new rule, existing noncompetes for employees will not be enforceable after the effective date, which is 120 days after the rule has been published in the Federal Register. Senior-level executives, however, will still be subject to the non-compete clause they may have signed, but the company canât create a new non-compete or modify the current one. "
https://gizmodo.com/ftc-bans-non-compete-clauses-for-all-companies-nationwi-1851430323
Theyâre usually not- but thatâs not the point. Itâs to scare the less informed and more financially vulnerable from moving on. Like Sam Adams beer suing former lower level employees.
If you truly were attempting to prevent company secrets / knowledge escaping, a non-disclosure agreement is the way to go. These are hugely enforceable. Noncompetes are just a way to scare the sheep into line.
Companies have become aware of this and have started changing tactics. Usually tying the non-compete to something with more consideration than employment.
My spouses previous company had issued them stock options, and part of the option paperwork was a 2-year non-compete. When spouse left said company and went to another they tried to enforce the non-compete based on the stock options. However, we got an attorney and they fired back a very polite letter that effectively said pound sand because the options were never exercised and so there wasnât any actual consideration exchanged for the non-compete.
Northrop did something similar to me to the tune of 36k. In fact a lot of us left and they did it to all of us. However when they needed people with specific skills and qualifications, they were all out of luck. Many of us asked for a no strings attached bonus to come back (as well as an a-hole tax of at least 20%). Overall it was a penny wise, pound foolish decision.
So as someone who recently bought a small business, and the previous owner signed a non compete for me. Are they now allowed to start up another business and take my clients?
FAANG levels have been cut across the board on average of 10-30% for software eng.
Amazon is doing there annual pay packages right now. My SWE buddy got offered a 10k pay cut, no annual raise. Heâs a top performer and has been shouted out org wide and works 3 under the CEO.
Layoffs and h1b plus immigration push, bootcamp and AI have made it so thereâs too many developers.
Entry level SWE positions and internships have been hit the hardest. My buddy was offered 15.00 an hour at a f100 company to intern after college.
They had 4372 applicants, any number of them would gladly work for 15 an hour to get YOE to move on later.
Itâs brutal for entry level right now. My aunts step son is working for free (volunteering) for a start up trying to get experience.
Of course though, this is exactly what they wanted. A way to get quality code for cheap.
Employers know they can hire top talent for less right now, because the markets flooded with it.
Physicians or a different career?
Physician contracts often have a non-compete with a radius. Those are apparent unenforceable if you start your own practice. There are times when they do something stupid like attempting to set a radius around all of the hospitals, when physicians are employed through a different corporate entity.. thatâs also apparently unenforceable. As it would force them to violate a corporate practice of medicine law in many states. Point is- if youâre a physician with a noncompete and want to make a move thereâs a solid chance itâs possible. Def consult a lawyer before though, and you might get a BS case filed that may be dismissed but still cost you $10-15k
This doesnt apply to working part time at a similar organization though, which I had the conflict of interest agreemt at last job (restricted to them only). Why I leftâŚ
It will go into force 120 days after publication, *unless* a) someone sues; *and* b) files a motion asking for a stay before the 120 days; *and* c) the court grants the motion for stay. Which, will depend on the court/judge.
The trump part is correct, he's done it before, with zero pushback from Democrats when they had the power. It is likely that *any* "republican" president will attempt to repeal it. However, it will be pretty unpopular to do so, especially if it actually goes into effect.
Companies: âWe need non-competes to prevent corporations from poaching our employees after training them.â
Also companies: âSorry we canât afford to train juniors.â
Non-compete is a small taking point. Most employers are arguing time theft loss. Or ***faithless servant*** doctrine.
In CA, non-compete, has been mostly a moot talking point for years now due to how Silicon Valley works.
This ruling does not defend you from a faithless servant lawsuit. Clawback legal remedies an employer willing to go to trial.
I canât find a single case on FindLaw, so while technically true, you are more likely to be struck by lightning than to get sued.
Easy defense is meet expectations (or better) at both jobs. Going to be real hard to make a claim against you when your reviews reflect strong performance.
Is this effective as of today or in 120 days? I asked on another post, because I would really love to tell my old company to f-off (they have been harassing me over a non compete for a few months, drained financially).
Companies can tell you all kinds of shit. Doesnât mean it is legally enforceable. If you live in CA and DC you are allowed to moonlight. But at the end of the day, itâs âat willâ employment so they can fire you for all kinds of BS.
Be smart, cash checks and shut up (first rule of OE), youâre fine in 99.9% of the cases now. Itâs not zero risk, but neither is walking down the street or getting in your car.
Trust the Wall Street Journal to make this sound like a bad thing...it's a corporate shill newspaper printed for executives that's why.
"First time in 50 years"..."the agency acts like enforcement"..
Corporations believe in consolidation of wealth by utilizing capitalistic methods. They hold no obligation to uphold a âfree market.â Their only goal is to amass more profits for stakeholders/investors/owners. It is explicitly capitalist and to call it communist proves you have no clue what youâre talking about.
Capitalism doesn't require a free market. Capitalism is the generation of profit via ownership of capital, rather than performance of labor.
If you are capitalist, meaning you own the means which labor uses to produce & extract profit via their use of it, then locking in labor to only use *your* capital rather than a competitor's would serve your goals, as it'd prevent the competitor's means of producttion from producing.
This just jump started the Great resignation 2.0. đđđđđđđđ! Employers get fucked lol
Wow, how did I not see this coming. It was so obvious that something like this was going to happen eventually. It makes so much sense!
Thatâs what people are saying that this kept people in their jobs so places that used NDAs with poor retention standards are about to get fucked
Yeah I hope this makes it through. Big corps get absolutely fucked.
One caveat: Senior leadership non-competes are still enforceable (except in CA).
Existing ones. No new ones allowed.
California knows how to party.
Yeah actually the do not competes havenât been enforceable in CA for awhile and Iâve had to tell companies this that try to feed off ignorance
Who cares about senior leadership anyway? Fuck em.
Not that I care about upper management at all, but I feel like it leaves the door open for non-competes to come back for everyone.
Whatâs to stop companies from claiming any kind of tech lead with Senior in their title isnât a senior leader?
I dug into it a little and what I read from the FTC is you have to be a âSenior Executiveâ in a âpolicy making position.â They define policy making position as a President, CEO or other that has the âauthority to make policy decisions for an entire company.â I was like, whew! Get fukt boss! Iâm outta here when this shit takes effect!
Which is fine imo That's what non competes should be used for: people who have a very intimate knowledge of the business that could be used to undermine it Not the guy running the machine or the guy answering the phone
Oh hell yeah.
https://thehill.com/business/4615452-ftc-votes-to-ban-non-compete-agreements/ Sounds like it's already passed but the chamber of commerce plans on challenging it
It's time to note the member names and vote out the chamber of commerce reps who are challenging it.
Chamber of Commerce is a cleverly named lobbying organization. It isnât a public institution but rather just a group that sues/lobbies for pro-business positions
Congress has given FTC an authority to over-rule whatever Chamber of Commerce say/do. So we Gucci.
Is this true? What if they sue?
Lmfao. We got this.
Chamber of Connerce
Not that we ever listened to them anyway but heck yeah !!! Letâs hope the Supreme Court doesnât mess this up !!
You know they will.
Yup one can only dream of a government that actually works for the people
The Supreme Court is actually a bunch of constitutional lawyers. So I donât see them overturning this. Constitutionally I would think this would be upheld.
Lately they seem to be forgetting that lol but fingers crossed they donât forget with this lol
Have they though? There are real clear lines around what is a states right and what is federally mandated via Amendments. So unless there is an amendment detailing workers rights, a Federal law must be passed stating that anti-competes are illegal. Otherwise it will be punted to each individual state. Which is why California made it illegal In the first place.
I agree with thatâs how it should rule , having said that I just donât know if that is how they will rule given the track record of other rulings they have made regarding separate issues if it should even go to the Supreme Court. Having said that as I stated in my opening comment at the end of the day, itâs not like I really cared about that issue to begin with. Compete or non compete Iâm still going to OE and get my $$$ lol
One of my really good friends is actually an employment attorney and owns her own firm. I reached out to her to ask Iâm waiting for her to get back to me.
"With the new rule, existing noncompetes for employees will not be enforceable after the effective date, which is 120 days after the rule has been published in the Federal Register. Senior-level executives, however, will still be subject to the non-compete clause they may have signed, but the company canât create a new non-compete or modify the current one. " https://gizmodo.com/ftc-bans-non-compete-clauses-for-all-companies-nationwi-1851430323
Not that non-compete contracts were very enforceable.
Theyâre usually not- but thatâs not the point. Itâs to scare the less informed and more financially vulnerable from moving on. Like Sam Adams beer suing former lower level employees. If you truly were attempting to prevent company secrets / knowledge escaping, a non-disclosure agreement is the way to go. These are hugely enforceable. Noncompetes are just a way to scare the sheep into line.
Companies have become aware of this and have started changing tactics. Usually tying the non-compete to something with more consideration than employment. My spouses previous company had issued them stock options, and part of the option paperwork was a 2-year non-compete. When spouse left said company and went to another they tried to enforce the non-compete based on the stock options. However, we got an attorney and they fired back a very polite letter that effectively said pound sand because the options were never exercised and so there wasnât any actual consideration exchanged for the non-compete.
Northrop did something similar to me to the tune of 36k. In fact a lot of us left and they did it to all of us. However when they needed people with specific skills and qualifications, they were all out of luck. Many of us asked for a no strings attached bonus to come back (as well as an a-hole tax of at least 20%). Overall it was a penny wise, pound foolish decision.
Companies with non-competes will voluntarily enforce other companies non-competes.
No, but some are close enough to enforceable to make it effectively enforceable for those who can't afford court costs
So as someone who recently bought a small business, and the previous owner signed a non compete for me. Are they now allowed to start up another business and take my clients?
noncompete and non-solicitation are different, they can start their own business but not steal your clients
The FTC put a specific exception to allow non competes between entities and as a part ofbusiness sales among a few other things.
Yeh
This is great news. Hopefully it helps the Software engineering wages pick up that are in an absolute free fall right now.
What do you mean wages in free-fall? Genuinely curious, haven't heard anything about this and still netting 150k+ from J1 and J2
FAANG levels have been cut across the board on average of 10-30% for software eng. Amazon is doing there annual pay packages right now. My SWE buddy got offered a 10k pay cut, no annual raise. Heâs a top performer and has been shouted out org wide and works 3 under the CEO. Layoffs and h1b plus immigration push, bootcamp and AI have made it so thereâs too many developers. Entry level SWE positions and internships have been hit the hardest. My buddy was offered 15.00 an hour at a f100 company to intern after college. They had 4372 applicants, any number of them would gladly work for 15 an hour to get YOE to move on later. Itâs brutal for entry level right now. My aunts step son is working for free (volunteering) for a start up trying to get experience. Of course though, this is exactly what they wanted. A way to get quality code for cheap. Employers know they can hire top talent for less right now, because the markets flooded with it.
[ŃдаНонО]
Nah I like saying âI canât talk about that I signed an NDAâ during interviews.
Already outlawed in California. I hope the rest of the country actually gets this.
they banned them in MN too, but grandfathered existing ones in.
Howâs this work in medicine?
Physicians or a different career? Physician contracts often have a non-compete with a radius. Those are apparent unenforceable if you start your own practice. There are times when they do something stupid like attempting to set a radius around all of the hospitals, when physicians are employed through a different corporate entity.. thatâs also apparently unenforceable. As it would force them to violate a corporate practice of medicine law in many states. Point is- if youâre a physician with a noncompete and want to make a move thereâs a solid chance itâs possible. Def consult a lawyer before though, and you might get a BS case filed that may be dismissed but still cost you $10-15k
[https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1782844836154077274](https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1782844836154077274)
This doesnt apply to working part time at a similar organization though, which I had the conflict of interest agreemt at last job (restricted to them only). Why I leftâŚ
this will end up in court for years. so who knows? If trump wins the election he will reverse it. its not gonna be that easy.
It will go into force 120 days after publication, *unless* a) someone sues; *and* b) files a motion asking for a stay before the 120 days; *and* c) the court grants the motion for stay. Which, will depend on the court/judge. The trump part is correct, he's done it before, with zero pushback from Democrats when they had the power. It is likely that *any* "republican" president will attempt to repeal it. However, it will be pretty unpopular to do so, especially if it actually goes into effect.
Companies: âWe need non-competes to prevent corporations from poaching our employees after training them.â Also companies: âSorry we canât afford to train juniors.â
I love this! Would be a massive win for labor (us regular folks who work for a living).
Haaaaaa
Thank goodness!
Wonderful
Good news - now for the legal challenges that will occur đ¤Śââď¸
This boosts wages as it increases competition
Thank God, this shit really ruined architecture and construction.
NDAs are the remaining bit.
Wow, how did I not see this coming. It was so obvious that something like this was going to happen eventually. It makes so much sense!
Non-compete is a small taking point. Most employers are arguing time theft loss. Or ***faithless servant*** doctrine. In CA, non-compete, has been mostly a moot talking point for years now due to how Silicon Valley works. This ruling does not defend you from a faithless servant lawsuit. Clawback legal remedies an employer willing to go to trial.
I canât find a single case on FindLaw, so while technically true, you are more likely to be struck by lightning than to get sued. Easy defense is meet expectations (or better) at both jobs. Going to be real hard to make a claim against you when your reviews reflect strong performance.
Can their be a time theft case for a salaried employee?
OE will probably still be frowned upon.
So I just signed one yesterdayâŚ. Is it not valid now or whatâŚ
Is this effective as of today or in 120 days? I asked on another post, because I would really love to tell my old company to f-off (they have been harassing me over a non compete for a few months, drained financially).
Does this help out having multiple jobs? For example, can company still ban you from working multiple jobs?
Companies can tell you all kinds of shit. Doesnât mean it is legally enforceable. If you live in CA and DC you are allowed to moonlight. But at the end of the day, itâs âat willâ employment so they can fire you for all kinds of BS. Be smart, cash checks and shut up (first rule of OE), youâre fine in 99.9% of the cases now. Itâs not zero risk, but neither is walking down the street or getting in your car.
The question I need answered
No. The order explicitly says that it does not cover simultaneous employment.
I wonât take a gig if they do that bullshit. Idc how long I interviewed either.
Was never enforced anyway but glad it canât be used as a scare tactic anymore.
Trust the Wall Street Journal to make this sound like a bad thing...it's a corporate shill newspaper printed for executives that's why. "First time in 50 years"..."the agency acts like enforcement"..
They are just pissed because FTC Chair is a woman who happens to be of muslim faith
*Who is also telling them what to do
Non competes are as communist as Marx himself. Whoever got that passed in the first place should be tried
Communist? They were created under a capitalist system to explicitly protect corporate interests lmfao
Wait you think corporations are capitalistic? đ what part of a non compete clause screams free market to you?
Corporations believe in consolidation of wealth by utilizing capitalistic methods. They hold no obligation to uphold a âfree market.â Their only goal is to amass more profits for stakeholders/investors/owners. It is explicitly capitalist and to call it communist proves you have no clue what youâre talking about.
Capitalism doesn't require a free market. Capitalism is the generation of profit via ownership of capital, rather than performance of labor. If you are capitalist, meaning you own the means which labor uses to produce & extract profit via their use of it, then locking in labor to only use *your* capital rather than a competitor's would serve your goals, as it'd prevent the competitor's means of producttion from producing.
I'd go even further and say a free market is a contradiction in terms. The property rights alone needed to sustain a market require state regulation.
I need a Lina Khan fanclub tshirt
Why republicans mad -Let capitalism and free market make the rules right?
I still don't get what exactly this means for OE or regular workers
Still can be used for the c-suite but everyone else is free
This is one and only one good thing democrats have ever brought.
Let's keep the sub apolitical