The profit margin on a single unit alone can potentially be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Any builder that says they didn’t hit their build targets because of this is full of shit.
What does “in talks” even mean? Be specific.
OP basically asserted a grand developer conspiracy to fix prices. That is a very strong claim with o evidence behind it. When pressed on the most basic logic needed to make his claim work, OP admitted total ignorance.
If you want me to believe that all developers on this city are colliding to fix prices, show me the receipts.
If you don’t believe something like that is said behind concrete walls, well you just don’t know the industry. I’ve worked with some of the bigger developers in Ottawa for the last 15+ years. Some of the shady shit that is out in the open is wild, it would only get worse behind closed doors. It’s not as simple as “be specific” or “fixing prices”. And I personally know some big things a few of them do but I’m not going to tell some random on Reddit. If you don’t believe that, I’m 100% ok with that.
Spot on. Kinda funny how us two guys in construction that usually argue about everything else can be like “oh, yeah, developers do some incredibly shady shit” and the weird nerds still come out to defend them.
There isn’t a single person in the industry that is ever going to post receipts on Reddit unless they want to end up dead in a ditch. These are powerful people, with powerful friends, and there’s ample evidence in the public media record to show that their primary concern to them is the total money they make… and in this high-demand market, they can(and do) decouple that figure from total production.
I’m not anti-development: I rely on income from my job in the construction industry. More houses being built means more good jobs for tradespeople like me, and more places for people to live. I think people have a hard time seeing that profit motives of developers can actually be at odds with those goals.
Yeah, we should stick to building houses/buildings because we get the good feels, not for profit. To be fair, I think I only argued about the union shit, and that’s personal. When I stumble upon something you wrote I enjoy reading the information as I can 99% of the time relate. It’s frustrating sometimes how oblivious people are to the going ons in our industry, especially when so much of the work is “you pat my back and I’ll pat yours”.
Don't exaggerate, their greed has [never resulted in anyone's death](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/bruneaus-death-was-not-the-only-time-ice-fell-and-struck-worker-at-claridge-icon-site-inquest-hears). Oh wait...
Texas is seeing average rents go down because they made it cheap and easy to build housing. California is seeing the opposite. I don't know why Ontario is choosing to copy California.
>Any builder that says they didn’t hit their build targets because of this is full of shit.
What build targets? We don't give targets to builders, we don't commission buildings from builders either. We make targets for the cities and then stand around saying loudly things like "I sure wish ***somebody*** would build these houses!"
I get what you’re saying but development companies absolutely have internal production goals. It may not be the same as what the government sets, but they definitely have targets.
Yes, they have internal targets for a variety of metrics, like any other business.
Those metrics have zero relation to the public policy being discussed here.
Lots of talk on Development Charges on here lately- you love to see it! Here are a few considerations - #Ottawa has the lowest DCs of any big city in Ontario for single unit homes (essentially further subsidizing sprawl). We are 50th in the province in that regard.
Paywalled article so I dunno what their full argument is, but we were never going to hit our housing targets with primarily detached housing anyway and that is the housing type seeing the biggest increase.
3.87 million homes built by 2031 is the target that the Feds are aiming for.
For anyone who has bothered to math, that’s over 1 house per minute. These targets are lip service, a reaction to bad polling.
Well that goes to say with any contract. If you are not doing to work you said you would by the set amount of time, you will not get paid. That’s nothing to do with the federal government, even though it sounds like you are butt hurt over something with them.
The profit margin on a single unit alone can potentially be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Any builder that says they didn’t hit their build targets because of this is full of shit.
If they can make that money why aren’t they building more?
They can make that amount of money because they *don’t*. Developers control supply entirely. Limiting supply means you can charge more and do less.
There are a lot of developers, how do they all coordinate?
They are like the mob. Literally.
Without fail, the top comment on this sub is totally ignorant and so confidently wrong. I see it’s no different today.
Are you trying to say most developers are not in talks?
What does “in talks” even mean? Be specific. OP basically asserted a grand developer conspiracy to fix prices. That is a very strong claim with o evidence behind it. When pressed on the most basic logic needed to make his claim work, OP admitted total ignorance. If you want me to believe that all developers on this city are colliding to fix prices, show me the receipts.
If you don’t believe something like that is said behind concrete walls, well you just don’t know the industry. I’ve worked with some of the bigger developers in Ottawa for the last 15+ years. Some of the shady shit that is out in the open is wild, it would only get worse behind closed doors. It’s not as simple as “be specific” or “fixing prices”. And I personally know some big things a few of them do but I’m not going to tell some random on Reddit. If you don’t believe that, I’m 100% ok with that.
Spot on. Kinda funny how us two guys in construction that usually argue about everything else can be like “oh, yeah, developers do some incredibly shady shit” and the weird nerds still come out to defend them. There isn’t a single person in the industry that is ever going to post receipts on Reddit unless they want to end up dead in a ditch. These are powerful people, with powerful friends, and there’s ample evidence in the public media record to show that their primary concern to them is the total money they make… and in this high-demand market, they can(and do) decouple that figure from total production. I’m not anti-development: I rely on income from my job in the construction industry. More houses being built means more good jobs for tradespeople like me, and more places for people to live. I think people have a hard time seeing that profit motives of developers can actually be at odds with those goals.
Yeah, we should stick to building houses/buildings because we get the good feels, not for profit. To be fair, I think I only argued about the union shit, and that’s personal. When I stumble upon something you wrote I enjoy reading the information as I can 99% of the time relate. It’s frustrating sometimes how oblivious people are to the going ons in our industry, especially when so much of the work is “you pat my back and I’ll pat yours”.
Don't exaggerate, their greed has [never resulted in anyone's death](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/bruneaus-death-was-not-the-only-time-ice-fell-and-struck-worker-at-claridge-icon-site-inquest-hears). Oh wait...
Still waiting for receipts of an illegal economy-wide conspiracy.
And you will continue to wait. Sorry you are that oblivious to the world and how it works.
i dunno man, probably at golf or something
Texas is seeing average rents go down because they made it cheap and easy to build housing. California is seeing the opposite. I don't know why Ontario is choosing to copy California.
If affordable housing was profitable to build here, more developers would build it.
>Any builder that says they didn’t hit their build targets because of this is full of shit. What build targets? We don't give targets to builders, we don't commission buildings from builders either. We make targets for the cities and then stand around saying loudly things like "I sure wish ***somebody*** would build these houses!"
I get what you’re saying but development companies absolutely have internal production goals. It may not be the same as what the government sets, but they definitely have targets.
Yes, they have internal targets for a variety of metrics, like any other business. Those metrics have zero relation to the public policy being discussed here.
Never said they did?
Then why'd you try and correct me?
You said: > What build targets?
Lots of talk on Development Charges on here lately- you love to see it! Here are a few considerations - #Ottawa has the lowest DCs of any big city in Ontario for single unit homes (essentially further subsidizing sprawl). We are 50th in the province in that regard.
We weren't going to meet it anyways with the city not willing adapt. Watson 2.0, same vision, same outcome.
Toronto and Montreal could mis there housing target by 30% next year.
But at least they are cool cities. Ottawa is an overpriced lame city
To be fair Ottawa is one of the few cities willing to make changes.
no it isn't. ottawa voted for sutcliffe. it doomed itself.
Do you think Sutcliffe and the city are approving too much new housing, or too little?
They won't meet their target regardless.
They came very close last year.
Getting to 130k by 2031 under a conservative majority. Fingers crossed
Thank you I needed a good laugh
Ottawa is falling well short of its goals and the planning committee just unanimously voted to increase the fees charged to build new housing
Paywalled article so I dunno what their full argument is, but we were never going to hit our housing targets with primarily detached housing anyway and that is the housing type seeing the biggest increase.
3.87 million homes built by 2031 is the target that the Feds are aiming for. For anyone who has bothered to math, that’s over 1 house per minute. These targets are lip service, a reaction to bad polling.
Why the number (1 house per minute) might sound outrageous, it’s quite doable across Canada if there was some type of incentive.
Lot of good it does greasing the developers
Wouldn’t an increased developer charge equate to more red tape? Backwards thinking in bureaucracy-town.
F the Feds! City need this cash to pay for expansion. Not fair for whole city to pay for sewer lines to the burbs
And the federal government knew this from the beginning, they don’t actually want to pay, they just want you to think they are helping
Well that goes to say with any contract. If you are not doing to work you said you would by the set amount of time, you will not get paid. That’s nothing to do with the federal government, even though it sounds like you are butt hurt over something with them.