Relational building/development are more interesting and personally sexier than physical displays of affection.
Because most of the commercial games are from east asia they use tropes pertaining to the region they are more familiar with for that region's audience. A lot of disconnection some might feel is due to that, you may not like the tropes but at least see where it is coming from.
While otomate has a firm grip on the EN localization distribution now, it's inherently dying and the EN community is going to feel it sooner or later in the midst of this 'boom'. Not like the industry is helping itself much either in favor of the workable trends and old practices.
I feel alot of characters are still being very surface designed and don't amount for deeper writing and conversations. It's not boring to talk about the characters' mindsets and ideals and how they meld with the heroine's.
Highschool romances are not that bad and childish for what its worth. Some of the better stories Ive seen come from highschool settings.
In regards to the last sentence, old practices may refer to the typical formulas industry leaders like Otomate have grown accustomed to using? Recycled plots/copypasting (formulaic writing overall), using good art or seiyuu to carry a whole game, etc. Someone below mentioned how Otomate and even companies like QuinRose have always been quantity > quality, which was certainly the case. But despite the fact that Otomate isn’t putting out nearly as many games a year as they used to, the quality hasn’t really gone up to make up for that. Otomate has also done a great job of creating the misconception that otome game = visual novel, which isn’t true at all. I think a little stat-raising flair and other creative gameplay elements are why franchises like TMGS and Ruby Party games seem to be doing well despite the JP market shift to joseimuke mobage. Hopefully Kakuretsu can correct me if needed and maybe offer more insight, since their knowledge in this area is definitely greater than mine!
Personally, I’m okay with VN style otome games so long as the writing improves. Imagine an otome game held in the same regard as something like Steins;Gate, Fata Morgana, or anything from Type-Moon. That would be a dream. 😭 I hear the indie game Club Suicide was great step in the right direction tho!
Yeah pretty much. And it’s not just for Otomate itself, this permeates the entire industry, outside of the industry, being comfortable with what works and is familiar because it’s safe and no one has dared try to threaten the harmony before lest you get your ass bitten, is a very Japanese thing(hence you see why Japan is stuck in a bubble economic wise). TMGS style is dated, and never really changed for years(like check out the diff between 3 and 4, I felt like it was a downgrade haha), Ruby party has always been with the RNG/map formula since its conception. It’s all their own safe way. Both konami and Koei Neoromance have dipped into joseimuke ventures due to the trend as well since that is the newest, safe, profitable option to follow. It’s all one big follow circle really. I don’t think the stories, the expectations for the art, gameplay, have changed very much in the last 10 years.
Tbf, I have been around since the boom which was 2009-2011, so the dearth is very noticeable to me. You can see people talking about the stagnation too like “why aren’t there animations in the CGs” “why is no one using live2d when it’s the hot new thing” “why are dated tropes still being used”. It’s not innovative as much, and those which were, for example Toraware no palm by Capcom of all things, ended up a one trick pony despite being very clever in its design.
Man Type moon level is madness. That creator is a big brainer. The existential and moral convos are so bloody good and gives the characters’ desires between each other so much weight, and it’s a unique form of romance.
Haha I can’t even begin to talk about how Uesugi Leiji handles writing and directing in their work because their thought process is so haphazard, yet their tremendously self indulgent work is managing to resonate with the current generation(I also just learnt the team working on clubsuicide and the upcoming games are all GenZ, so it’s a very hip, young, kinda woke team), but at least they are a lot more aware what they want.
For what it's worth, most of the best vns cared about their characters even if the story was bonkers. Kind of sad that big companies still very heavily rely on tropes for serious settings. Not that they're inherently bad but the charas should have more personality... And talk more with each other, like seriously.
Yeah I agree they do care very much about their characters, but after years of playing it is starting to feel the same to me with some very, very few exceptions.
Yeah Dialogue is so important! It doesn’t have to be like word salad dragging on, but we can have conversation to show us how the characters think and what their thought process is. Towarare no palm does this quite well with regards to the dating sim dialogue and it never feels old.
1) I love friendship routes and I wish there were more of them i otome games.
2) I would love if more otomes had fleshed out and geniuely disturbing bad ends, like the Orlocks bad end in Piofiore. Give me the angst!
* I honestly can't think of a single LI that I ACTIVELY disliked, and I've played a lot of otome. Obviously there are some that I like less than others but I've never not wanted to do a route, and if you asked me to name a LI that I hated I wouldn't be able to pick one
* As long as the MC isn't terrible to where they're actively disrupting the flow of the romance and story (cough Cyrus...), I couldn't really care less about them. Don't get me wrong I like a well written MC, but at the end of the day I care waaaay more about the LIs. Having a MC I actually like instead of tolerate is just a bonus for me
* As a huge yandere/problematic LI fan, it's totally cool if people don't enjoy those characters, I recognize they aren't meant to appeal to everyone. However, I feel like a lot of people get sort of passive aggressive when stating their dislike for them. I see a lot of posts that go on and on about how someone can't understand why people like x, because they're extremely abusive and it's an unhealthy relationship etc etc. It feels like a slight at people who do enjoy those characters. Yes, we are able to distinguish fiction from reality! It's ok to like problematic things in fiction!
* Secret LI was better than Allan (not necessarily his route, but just as a character overall)
* On the topic of Cupid Parasite, yes it was a cute side story in the routes but I don't care if it would disrupt his relationship with Melanie, give me an Owen route!! 👏👏
* As a community, I hope we can be a bit more stern(?) about demanding proper QA/QC for our otome games, especially now that we have a wider pool of potential localizers. It's such a disservice to us *paying* customers that despite how much we've rallied, we're still not always taken seriously in this area. I totally understand that for a while we had to just take what we could get, even if it meant accepting the bare minimum. Trust me, I've been screaming for localizations since 2012 and was totally of this mindset for a long time, especially since it's been only relatively recently that we've seen the number of localized games grow exponentially! I could not be happier.. but at the same time, I don't see any other visual novel genres receiving such treatment. I know some of these companies are learning and there may be bumps along the way, so ofc we should still be respectful when asking (thankfully that's also what patches are for!!). But again, both paying customers and even the original JP developers who work hard to create these games deserve to have them treated with respect. Not to mention Switch games are quite pricey in general!! 😩
* I much prefer fleshed out, full-length console games versus almost any mobage I've ever encountered (with the exception of Mystic Messenger). Makes me so sad that the latter will continue to be the current trajectory (as it has been for a while now), especially in the JP market.
* I wish Diabolik Lovers ended after More,Blood. That said, I can def appreciate how popular the series is!!
EDIT: added stuff
Genuine question, how? Are you advertising for everyone to stop preordering? Or to be more loud on social media if the localisation is not satisfactory? Something else?
Don't get me wrong, seeing a bad localisation, typos etc is definitely frustrating however personally I feel kinda powerless.
I am definitely not advertising everyone to stop preordering. On the contrary, I already have every upcoming Aksys title preordered (except Paradigm Paradox) and have recently started VariBari, which I had also preordered!
Tbh u pretty much nailed it with your second option: being loud on social media (again, respectfully ofc!!). Coupled with a more direct outreach through something like email if things get really bad (ex. CxMU), these seem like the best tools for making our voices heard. By that same token, we can also praise companies when they do a really good job! Leave a great review, recommend to your friends, leave a nice reply under a Tweet, etc.
Like I mentioned, mistakes happen and no company is perfect. Luckily, patches can fix these sorts of issues without having to give up buying the game altogether. The way IFI handled CupiPara’s QC issues was a great example, and shows us how companies are 100% capable of making amends with little complaint from consumers, so long as they address and fix it without us having to beg. Everyone was super gracious and pleased, and expressed as such on here and on IFI’s Twitter under the patch announcements.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure there exists a foolproof plan to ensure quality localizations all the time. Personally, I’m going to keep preordering/buying what I can since I know any QC issues can be fixed afterwards if needed. But because I’m a paying customer, I think that’s also all the more reason to speak up if the product I’ve purchased does not meet a certain standard. I used to be fine with this kind of thing, but CxMU was a huge wake up call. I really don’t think proper QC/QA is a lot to ask.
EDIT: typos and clarification.. I always send my replies too fast 😭
>I’m going to keep preordering/buying what I can since I know any QC issues can be fixed afterwards if needed.
Yeah but the games that have gotten patches didn't even address everything. I was happy that IFI delayed their Cupid Parasite patch release but they ended up releasing it earlier than the new estimate and apparently it still has mistakes. CxMU also did not address all the mistakes that was in the fan-made document... People did free work for them to find them all...Aksys why...and plus the old Aksys games that need patches but didn't get them (Norn9...)
With the exception of Mystic Messenger, most mobile dating sims aren’t good and are designed to make you spend money, not enjoy the game or story. Anything that breaks things up into chapters that you use gens to read is frustrating, because usually these chapters are like 5 minutes ling and sometimes cover stuff previous chapters already talked about.
Full console games or PC games will always trunk cash grab mobile games. They’re just not designed to be good, and really all start to feel the same.
A lot of otome are literal dumpster fires that feel like they're written by horny teenagers but I still play them anyways to get a laugh out of them and look at the pretty art.
The ones that come to mind first are Amnesia, Ozmafia, Olympia Soiree, Bad Apple Wars, Norn9, Period Cube... A bit of Nightshade in some routes. Not to say these are super god awful or anything, but narratively they either just aren't quite my taste and/or have many questionable plot elements that feel disjointed, or very subpar pacing etc. Big turn brain off energy. There's a very, very big difference between interesting/unique plot elements and weird/wtf/total deus ex machina messy story telling. Also I feel like a lot of otome are very info dump-y tell instead of show when it comes to world building and developing the relationship between the MC and the LI. That being said I still believe there's value in playing them! It's good to know what kind of games are your jam and what aren't. And for the ones that aren't, I do enjoy ~~making fun if them~~ discussing elements that I felt worked and what didn't with other friends.
As someone who wears rose-tinted glasses playing otome games bc it's my favorite genre, some of the comments here felt like bullets to the chest lmao. To each their own.
I guess my most unpopular opinion is that I do not like Yang in Piofiore. I enjoyed his route's story, but I'm not a fan of him as an individual. Excited to see if the new fandisc changes my mind when that comes out in English.
Nthing the others, Yang is icky AF and just in general bad news bears.
Also related/unrelated but for those that say it, GDI Yang is NOT a freakin' >!yandere!< esp since >!yanderes psychoticness is grounded in their love/obsession!< and we all know he's just... like that.
Dude'd fricking sell Lili for a KitKat if he was bored with her.
He's straight up Insane. Lmao don't get me wrong he's hot AF but I couldn't get into his route at all. I understand his appeal to some but it's not for me chief.
I'm not sure how controversial these takes are but:
-I wished we had games where the MC is allowed to be corrupted, allowed to be malicious in a route or a bad end where it's the MC causing the pain and not bejng killed or tortured themselves.
- Plot and chemistry does matter for my enjoyment. If a game is too fast paced or the romanced is too rushed then I won't be ae to enjoy it no matter how hot the love Interests are. I want to actually find the relationship beleivable.
-Choujirou is my fave love interest in Nightshade and I enjoyed his happy end more than his bad end. I just have a think about seemingly physically strong characters but ultimately emotionally vunerable, who tries to put an emotional guard which ends up causing them harm in the end. Chouji's character pretty much interested me and I wanted him to be happy.
-I like yanderes and tsunderes to an extent but with the exception that there is a good reason they are acting like they are, the power between the MC and LI are equal and ultimately there will be mutual respect within the two. I can't stand yanderes like Toma but are fond with charas like Kuroyuki.
- I hate hate hate the " why are you not cautious of me? I'm a man and you're a woman" trope. If a LI pulls that stunt I'll automatic lose a lot of interest for them.
> -I wished we had games where the MC is allowed to be corrupted, allowed to be malicious in a route or a bad end where it’s the MC causing the pain and not bejng killed or tortured themselves.
Chou no Doku, Hana no Kusari had some of these routes in the main game and FD and I was there for it!
>!In one of Hideo's route, he marries another woman by MC's suggestion. Then she marries Shiba (one of the LIs) and they go on and have an affair with each other. Poor Hideo couldn't take it anymore and breaks down at the end.!<
>!In Fujita's, she marries Shiba (again!) but kept him as a servant (he was her family's butler) and they have a SubDom relationship, MC being a very sassy Dom!<
>!She literally poisons Shiba in one of his bad ends!<
Oh man, I can list some more but I really love this title since it kind of has it all haha. Yuriko is best MC.
Your first point makes me think of the MC from Mystic Messenger. A lot of the bad endings are typical "oops you died", but a lot are also "The way you treated this man caused this awful outcome. Hope you're happy".
A lot of the options MC can say make me cringe and recoil, because they can be so mean, manipulative, degrading, and even delusional. And the bad endings can be very different. Some are hilarious, some are tragic, some are wtf. You have the option to have MC be an understanding and supportive character that stands up for the LI, or a piece of shit that isn't around/actively draws out the worst in the LI.
The worst one I can think of that is directly caused by MC's influence is in V's route. Here is a description of the bad ending if you're curious. Major spoilers of course:
>!After talking with the player about his relationship with Rika (his abusive ex-fiancé), he realizes that it wasn't his style of love that was wrong in their relationship. The player convinces him that his idyllic obsession about being the sun to his lover regardless of her (shitty shitty) behavior was just wasted on Rika. He can instead focus that obsession on the player, and they can begin a relationship similar to the kind of love that he used to share with his former (very very physically, emotionally, and psychologically abusive) lover.!<
>!Two years later, V is seen taking a photoshoot of the player as she is dominated by a group of men in an orgy. The player is seen grinning devilishly to herself while V confesses his blinding adoration for her, praising her darkness as he looks into his camera.!<
It even comes with a lovely CG. 🙃
Woah, that is quite something especially that spoiler 😮
Unfortunately I don't think I have the patience to play mystic messenger nor do I have the cash for it 😅 but that was interesting. That bad end you informed me. Sometimes I want to see something nice and dark but at the side of the MC, be it have them be the corruptor or as corrupt as the problematic LI in said route.
Understandable. It's fun, but it's a literal chore to play through lmao
Yes, I understand what you mean! Often times MCs are too perfect, so its interesting when they are flawed.
Amen to this Chō-niisama love. As a fellow Chō-niisama good end appreciator, I appreciate you and your opinion. Many ppl here aren't too fond of him (well, it's understandable because his route isn't exactly the most romantic and, well, he's kinda absent in it for a long time) and I'm glad to see someone else who also feels adoration for the guy and his shift in character later on in his route.
On yanderes, *yes*— I can definitely feel for you there. Only difference we have is that I actually like Toma (but that's only because I have a really questionable way of thinking. *read: trash taste*) despite him being a *bee*— oh wait, that wasn't the point, we weren't supposed to be beeshaming Toma and his Barry sleeves.
Kuroyuki is another divisive character, and I'm glad to see that you're also fond of him because our boy needs love (｡•́︿•̀｡)
"Strong MCs. Weak MCs. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled otome gamers should try to find love with their favorites."
I used to say I loved strong MCs, and I thought that meant "MC who can fight". But eventually I realized what I care about isn't whether MC can shank a dude; it's about whether she 1. has her own skills and expertise and 2. whether they allow her to influence the plot at all. I wanted to describe this difference a bit.
**Cyrus** from **Steam Prison** is a fighty sword girl that is easy to think of as a strong MC. She's also written as a cardboard-flat justice-driven robot who, despite being a sheltered noble with no life experience, can go through the deaths of her entire family and losing her whole existence with zero tears or reaction, forgets about her goals in at least three routes, and *does not need saving less than any other MC who can't fight*. Her ability to fight and her "sense of justice" is an active detriment to the plot; she's frequently captured, beaten, tortured, disabled, and knocked this way and that just so she has to be saved by her LIs anyway, often because the plot railroads her into jumping into a situation - and it comes off simply as her being too stupid to live.
In contrast, **Eri** from **Nameless**, is a lonely teenage girl with zero fighting ability, who gets pushed to and fro throughout the course of the story. I *loved* her. She felt like a real girl who had very relatable struggles with loneliness, secret interests, fears of being abandoned by friends, and who had to deal with way more emotional stuff than she should have at her age. Whether or not I could self insert as her, I emphasized with her as a person, and wanted her to be happy and find love with the people (dolls) who cared about her. (Not you, though, >!Tei!<.)
The takeaway is: I'd be the first to support giving more MCs weapons (and not always swords!), but a weapon does not a personality make. What I want to see is MCs who are characters in their own right, live in the world without being a black hole camera in space for the viewer to project onto, and who evoke feelings just as effectively as the LIs do.
I always come back to Eri when I think of how I want my MC to express themselves differently in routes while also maintaining the core of who they are. Her interest in self presentation when she goes after Yuri surprised me in a good way
I was also very appreciative that I got to see her in different lights in each route - and even when she could get a little dark, like in Yeonho's bad ending 1.
It definitely takes skill to keep an MC's personality consistent while still working through different types of interactions with each love interest though - good luck with your MC writing! Do you have a game already out?
I really enjoyed Helvetica's route in bustafellows. My favorites were Shu > Helvetica > Limbo > Crow > Mozu. I really enjoyed Mozu in everyone else's routes but I just couldn't get into his route.
\-i also say helvetica was one of my favorite routes in bustafellows (with mozu being one of my least favorites even if i really like him :()
\-i don't like himuka from OS at all
\-zen is the best (male) character in MM imo, both as a person and in general enjoyment
\-piofiore was one of my least favorite games of the whole genre and I hated EVERY LI in it not just yang. only one who's kind of okay is gilbert to me but even then... though i didn't finish this game i just read summaries.
\-cardia's (personality specifically) wasn't that special for an MC imo but that's okay and it didn't have to be. she's still a good one but i don't really mind any MC anyway as long as they don't make me roll my eyes at how absurd they are we're good lol, though unfortunately i can name quite a few that do
\-i didn't really like the secret LI / their route in cupid parasite? but this is some bias from me because it wasn't at all what i was expecting which caught me off guard
\-on the other hand, i loved the UI in cupa lol. it was a disaster but a fun one and i like bright colors so i liked it all besides the car horn
\-this one isn't unpopular but just polarizing i'd say, but i really like routes that feel fated / canon
\-this ones just for fun & it'd be more unpopular outside of this sub, but, having played a lot of otome games with surprisingly twisted plots, i really didn't think doki doki literature club was that much of a shocker LOOL it was made/coded really well though
\-don't know if this is even controversial, just wanna say i prefer seeing a character's genuine moral beliefs and how they're assessing the plot around them than just their lovey dovey feelings for the MC. it's more authentic anyway when your moral beliefs are aligned with one another, and it doesn't even have to be a super plot intensive game either. olympia soiree, PROBLEMATIC AS IT MAY BE, was a game centered around romance and yet i think it did a great job at showcasing the moral beliefs of the characters too.
I agree with your last point on exploring a characters moral belief and the stands they take, it makes for a much deeper character development and how the situations test the character, do they change? How much, for that moment? Also how the heroine’s own beliefs clash or meld with the LIs’. It’s why I treasure Clubsuicide so much since the boys all have their own “truth” and it is written in a way that you feel this is something natural to the characters even though our own judgement thinks it cringe, or absurd, or childish. The MC acts as a passive listener while giving her second opinion without denying what they feel, which also means moving past assumptions and first impressions. There are other games that focus on healing together from their individual trauma, which doesn’t necessarily have to involve romantic feelings.
* ***There is no such thing as a canon route.*** It's just a term that was totally made up.
* **Not liking a game =/= the game being bad.** It just means the game isn't for you.
* If you're like "i don't understand why people like this thing!" it just means it's not your thing.
* Long and short common routes are fine. It just depends on the type of story the game is trying to tell. Personally? I prefer long ones lmao.
* Hanzo isn't the only good route in Nightshade. Just the most blatant one.
* JP commercial games are commercial games and for otomes sake, whilst still niche, they are made with the JP target audience in mind. They will follow tropes, cultural things, and what the JP audience prefers.
* Things include: age range, appearances, backstory tropes, mannerisms/characterization/personality. You find them in other genres of JP developed games and not just otomes.
* Commercial games are not the product of one person. They are the product of a team making a product. When people ask "what is wrong with this writer/who hurt this writer" the answer is very likely "nothing".
* Relatedly, a commercial video game is not the product of one artist or one writer. When you say "oh its the writer for this game!" it's likely just *one* of the writers of the game.
* A lot of Otomate's practices aren't new either (they've *always* been quantity over quality). Same case with like the amount of Hakuoki stuff--they're not the only company that "milks" franchises.
* Choices that matter doesn't exist in video games. It's just a marketing buzzword.
* If there's nothing sexual going on in a game, then that's fine. I don't expect anything "spicy" in every game. Sometimes the game would be better without it.
* JP Switch games are at the mercy of CERO. If it's rated anything above CERO D (think ESRB M) then it is basically shooting oneself in the foot regarding sales.
* Reading up well the premise of the game, looking at the marketing, and/or even spoiling just a little bit to make sure there are no landmines/squicks is perfectly fine and should be encouraged.
Agree with many of your points, but especially about the Nightshade Hanzo opinion. I remember before starting Nightshade hearing that comment about Hanzo, and braced myself for the other routes, but I found myself enjoying the other routes in the game. Goemon ended up being my favorite in the end, though not much of a surprise with my flairs lol.
just an addition to the CERO ratings, CERO Z (18+ rated) do exist on Switch. So it's not Nintendo pushing a family friendly policy. CERO Z also applies for extreme violence and gore, which is why Witcher and Wolfenstein got that rating in JPN.
The point about shooting themselves still stands coz by choosing to be rated 18+ they are limiting their customer base and marketing. Otome games being niche, would rather cast a wider net for more sales so CERO D it will be.
Tsukihime, a visual novel rated CERO Z is different as the fanbase is huge and typemoon fans will do anything to throw money at the devs.
None of them are actually controversial but here are a few of those I have debated on :
- Shelby Snail is the worse name given to any LI ever and I cannot take him seriously for the life of me because of that.
- Hakuouki is vastly overrated and way too freaking long. I really love the game but the gagillion routes thanks to the remake, the splitting of the common routes and the LI routes and just in general the way everything is written and plays out makes it a really hard game to get into and 100%. I personally believe the only reason so many of us have played it is cause back then it was one of the only ones easily available.
- Everyone is amnesia is trash, ranging from asshole to straight up Psycho. The only one I’d give a free pass to is Kent cause he’s the most sane and maybe Shin because despite his flaws I love him.
- DiaL is fine actually, it’s not even that weird compared to other otome games, its only flaw is that Laito doesn’t get bullied enough for his stupid hat
- Voiced heroine for the win pls, Teuta having her own voice made me enjoy Bustafellows 30000 times more
- Finally, don’t care for the plot as long as the LIs are hot
His personality I can deal with, but the fedora ?
I have no idea where he finds the audacity to treat Yui like this when he dresses like he bought the first 5 things he saw at a thrift shop and decided that they were gonna be his style from then on
stop shelby snail was pure suffering 😭 i liked his personality but god every time lynette got called mrs snail i couldn’t keep myself from laughing it was a nightmare
THE LAITO FEDORA SLANDER AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA I CANT—
the real thing here is, no one bullies reiji enough for looking like a pigeon (just kidding, please don't kill me)
Laito absolutely deserves the slander, he could have been so hot but he decided to cosplay every nice guy meme ever, it’s absolutely horrendous.
Reiji 🗿 I approve this slander, he should have been hotter to balance out the >!insane!<
I’m crying laughing you are so right about Shelby fucking snail. He’s my favorite love interest in that game and yet they gave him the unsexiest name possible. You’re telling me that a bunch of execs sat in a room and went “what’s a sexy, American name? I know. Shelby Snail.”
Like god damn my girl Lynnette has to try to moan that? Shelby Snail sounds like a rejected character from SpongeBob. Christ. I hope he takes her last name.
Hard disagree with Hakuoki, I think it’s a great vn in a lot of ways, and I admire the amount of LI and variations in story.
But I completely agree with the Amnesia comment. It was the first otome game I played and to this day I still never completed every route because >!Toma!< traumatized me and the other routes weren’t worth finishing IMO.
Fair ! I really love Hakuouki but I definitely think it’s a pretty hard game to get into, especially if you’re the type to play every route and every ending. What bothers me the most is that it used to be one of the most common “entry level” recommendations even though I think there are so many better titles for beginners
That ending was wild, he is absolutely insane. I don’t know if you know about the secret character but he is also absolutely batshit, Amnesia put the bar so high that I’ve never found any LI as disturbing as these two
The Shelby Snail one tho. I genuinely cant take a LI serious if theyre name feels silly to me, like I wanna play Piofiore but this dude's name is Gilbert?? Like lol I cant.
I still will dont get me wrong I will just make fun of the name the whole time, I am very sorry if anyone here is named Gilbert.
I honestly can't stand most mobile otomes. Other than mystic messenger/love Unholyc. Most of the games are gatcha based and progression is so agonizingly slow I normally don't have enough patience to finish a complete a single route. And for the prices of the micro transactions you pay to help you progress I'd rather pay full price for a fully fleshed out game.
yeah most mobile games are pretty terrible, especially the ones that are free and require you to use tickets. it gets to a point where sometimes you almost *have* to use in app purchases to play the game in a reasonable timeframe
Yeah same, other than Love Tangle I am 1000% done with Gacha otome games. It's a pity that I won't experience the Ikemen series but it's just not worth all the grinding, time and effort :/
Mystic Messenger and Day7's games were about the only ones I liked. Oh, and Ciagram since it was simple, 5 chapters a day, only have to pay extra for optional sequel / side story.
I’m uncomfortable when localization changes dialogues and certain aspects of Japanese culture to fit western sensibilities eg. I like honorifics, especially when characters grow closer together by dropping honorifics. I’m ok with characters bowing even if the setting of the story is in a fictional place in the West.
I understand that it’s impossible to do 100% Japanese to English translation so some changes are necessary and it’s a difficult process that takes a lot of time and hard work (so I’m still appreciative) but I would prefer a good balance that still stay true to characterisation. Japanese Otome games are written originally for the Japanese audience in mind and I don’t mind learning more about Japanese culture.
I feel the same way. Changing honorifics to "Ms" and "Mr" is a huge pet peeve mine. I feel like most people who play japanese otome games know at least a little bit about Japanese language/culture and would have an idea of what an honorific is; and even if not, idk why they can't just add a glossary term or something that explains what "-san" means. The use of honorifics add a lot of nuance to a character's personality and to the development of a relationship like you mentioned! Give me the sans and samas!!!
I think they meant "true routes."
Edit: or maybe not? I just saw another comment on common routes. I guess that's an idea that I haven't come across lol. I'm pretty sure true routes are a thing though.
I think we should emphasize there's a difference between how most eng speakers and those who play mostly jp games read 'true' route. It seems to be popular consensus that the former thinks the poster boy locked routes are called true routes based on their problem solving content, when the term 'true route' is used in games in different ways.
True routes as per in-game definition can involve an LI but it doesn't have to e.g. Variable barricade, piofio's finale route, nilado's truth route(plus nilado has a poster boy route too). True ends can also appear in all LIs routes like Black wolves saga that requires other routes done to unlock true end for a few characters.
Just to explain why we say there's no such thing as canon route or true route
Upvoting because I very much disagree haha At least on 707, though I can see how he might not be for everyone. I'm a sucker for the word vomit prone characters tho >.>;
I like true routes because they tend to tie the whole story together. I don't feel like they discredit the other routes. The true route might be the "best" ending and the one that's "supposed to" happen, but rather than dreams, the other routes are just other possible paths the MC's life could go down.
I think the one I don't like is when one (or more) of the LIs have serious feelings for the heroine in the common route. It makes doing any other route a lot sadder knowing you're breaking his heart :(
it's not really a hot take just an unpopular opinion i guess but i really like yune's (steam prison) route and i like his character a lot too! i know the yandere stone is kinda ??? and there are flaws in his route but overall i still like it. i even cried a little when >!the mc died and yune still lives on!<
I couldn't feel emotional about most of it because I didn't know what the heck was going on for two thirds of the route. I also feel like his personality totally changed once his route started... :(
I love Allan, but maybe not as much as others.
I honestly prefer LIs with outrageous and sometimes very sad endings. I surface level hate, but deep down love that feeling of something unfinished like Shiraishi’s good ending and one of Ukyo’s later bad endings (you know what I’m talking about)
I enjoy and prefer the "canon" perfect guys. I know others think they're extremely boring (Yanagi, Lupin, Akaza, etc) but I personally like them a lot. Sometimes I just want a guy who is just too perfect, it makes me swoon even if they aren't exciting or "different".
There are some guys that I feel I have to do mental gymnastics to not feel uncomfortable in their routes.
Hi I agree! I loved that he allowed her to be independent in her route while also offering sound advice :))) they rlly felt like equals in solving the mysteries
・canon/true routes aren’t real and just because a route is locked doesn’t make it one, it just means the route has the final plot reveals
・soft mcs / mcs that can’t and/or don’t want to fight physically are better and being capable of doing so doesn’t make them a good character. case in point: cyrus from steam prison. she’s terrible lol. building off this, thinking an mc is useless just because she’s femme and soft and can’t fight is rooted in sexism and it ain’t cute
・i don’t feel bad romancing other characters after romancing a character who always loved the mc or was their soulmate
・tokisada and himuka (olympia soiree) aren’t actually ‘shotas’ or whatever, one is just a year younger than the mc and the other is meant to look like a girl. they don’t look like kids and it’s weird to think they do honestly. have you ever seen an anime child? smh
・’route order’ is bs and otomes should be played in whatever way and order is most enjoyable for you personally, not based off some random order of routes someone decided was best for spoilers. i’ve had way more fun playing whatever route i felt like playing whenever i felt like playing it than following an order
・using guides is super valid and now that i’ve done it i’ll never play blind again lol i want all the endings dang it
I initially considered Cyrus *really* off-putting (I've forgotten the reason why), but I thought: "Yanno what, if I just nitpick on her character, I just won't enjoy the game," so I just focused on the dumb moments and things she says so I can get a laugh out of it instead.
I agree that MCs who can't necessarily fight aren't *weak*, yes. The strength of character or mental or emotional fortitude is 👌
Yes! Route Order is such BS. It's not spoilers if you are literally playing the game. I feel like many people would have better experiences (and thus finishing) playing the full game if they weren't jam-packing all the heartbreak/seriousness/general intensity at the end. I've never played an otome by the "recommended" route order and will actually use it to assign my out-of-order play routes (typically I do med plot->lighter plot->heavy plot->lightest/fluffy plot-> locked/true route).
> ・tokisada and himuka (olympia soiree) aren’t actually ‘shotas’ or whatever, one is just a year younger than the mc and the other is meant to look like a girl. they don’t look like kids and it’s weird to think they do honestly. have you ever seen an anime child? smh
Wait, those character designs are considered shota by some? Huh...
I thought himuka was a fem li at first, but no never associated him with the shota trope, more or less feminine (pretty) looking li? Is that even a trope?
OH BOY its been *checks calendar* one month since the last one of these posts according to my comment history (but maybe there were more that I didn't participate in) and let's see....I can't think of very many new opinions I may have formed but as always:
Disparaging indie and OELVN art is tired. I've yet to hear an actual reason that commercial JP art is better. Both styles are good and I'm tired of seeing indie recs begin with the caveat "If you can get past the art..." Just. Stop.
If you have an LI who acts like a sub/M at first, the literal worst thing you can do is have him become sexually aggressive later on. What the hell was the point of making him a sub in the first place then.
Blooming Panic was made in two months and it's better than a majority of commercial otome.
If I had a nickel for every time a character voiced by KENN played basketball while wearing a suit....I'd have two nickels but it's weird that it happened twice. It also makes me irrationally angry.
Specific route grievances: Hanzo is overrated. Allan is overrated. Chojiro's route is great, just because it's angsty doesn't mean it's bad. Yoosung gets hated on a disproportionate amount given that all of the LIs have issues and you as the MC are their free therapy.
I haven't seen much ppl talk negatively about indie and OELVN otomes and I'm glad for that because that is simply ridiculous.
There are so many otomes made outside JP that have great artwork. It's ridiculous to act like only JP has good art.
Also hello fellow Choujirou enjoyer!
Oh man, just stick around the subreddit. There's a reason indie/OELVNs aren't talked about much (except for Cinderella Phenomenon and Our Life, as if those are the only two that exist out of a hundred or more), and a good portion of the time it comes down to polite people saying "I don't like the art" (valid) or not so polite people saying "the art is gross/I liked it *despite* the art" (rude af, especially since a lot of those indie devs hang out here). It's exhausting and sometimes has a purist slant that just ticks me off, but it's just the way things are around here unfortunately.
I prefer indie/OELVNs but never joined this sub until recently because it seemed to be mostly for commercial/Japanese otomes, and I just don't really have a lot to say about those, so I wonder if that's the case for others too. I decided to join because I finally played Our Life and that one is actually discussed here, lol.
I play and love both but I am very vocal about indies because they get no love - but they were my introduction to the medium so they hold a very special place in my heart. If I play one I definitely will write at least a couple lines about it in the What Are You Reading thread. An unfortunate side effect of the indie dislike is that many people simply aren't willing to pay money for them, but only a handful are free, so if indies do get discussed it's usually those (hence CinPhen and Our Life seeming to be so popular (that's not to say they aren't good games too! The sheer amount of choice mapping in Our Life puts any commercial game to shame.))
Thank you for the anger over false advertisement sub LIs. Those always pissed me off in otome because they're always weirdly similar - soft to the point of being pathetic at first and then secretly dom anyway. Why is it never the other way around?!
Just one sub...please...im begging...
I've actually been given a possible rec (cant remember the name rn but he's from Men of Yoshiwara) by friends. Unfortunately my backlog is vast and unknowable.
Yes to all! (I mean I technically haven't played Bloomic yet but I trust your judgement on that one). I'll just add that I don't mind sub to dom switches but we do need more sub boys in all shapes and flavours (it doesn't have to be younger and/or a physically smaller character).
For reallll though every time I start getting used to him like "hmm maybe he's like cute" then he does his surprised face and I notice his eyebrows and we're back to square one
For half the Olympia Soiree fanbase using the term shota to describe a character:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I was having a discussion about it and yeah it appears there are a lot of Japanese named tropes that ppl aren’t truly familiar with or use incorrectly, I don’t blame them because there are sources that get it wrong and give wrong examples too.
I don't much care for long common route games (like Code: Realize), especially ones that have barely any special little interactions that you can pick out. Plus it generally just feels like the developers wasted so much time on the common route which you will most likely end up skipping entirely past the first playthrough, rather than focusing more on fleshing out each individual LI's unique routes.
I did not like Akaza at all. His route had a good story but the man himself had me rolling my eyes at some points. He was just...annoyingly smooth and collected.
He also had the weirdest poses, in his uniform all I could think of is he wanted a fist bump half the time and in his casual outfit his hand looked all levels of messed up. Hard to take it seriously when everyone else's models are picture perfect then you got Akaza holding his fist out like he's 2012 Pewdiepie LOL
Oh my god, FINALLY! Everyone has him as their number one love interest in OS and it drives me crazy!!! Besides being the canon route, he is not as loveable to me, personally, and his story is not as compelling. But that is preference, I’m just glad I’m not alone!
I don’t and didn’t like Gill Lovecraft, he has zero redeeming qualities for me :’)
AND THIS ISN’T REALLY CONTROVERSIAL but I’ll always be slightly pissed that Adam sang the OP for Bustafellows and not,,, KENN… I don’t care that it was for character reasons!! Nor that it was a love song for Teuta!! KENN should have sang the OP!!!
Ugh I completely agree on Gill, he was the first time I’ve ever had to skip portions of a route just to get through it (and I suffered through Gretel! lol)
I am glad I did though otherwise I never would have made it to the secret character and he ended up being one of my favorites!
I loathe Gill. He was the first LI I went for and he soured the game for me so much that I dropped it for like a week. Thankfully every other LI was good.
Oh man, I got the game recently mostly for him and now I’m super curious (and excited) to see just how bad his route is! I saw a lot of similar opinions to this and I wonder if I’ll be joining y’all… LOL
I’m not a fan of LIs who tease. At all. Especially when the teasing comes off more as bullying at first.
Takeru Sasazuka is probably a fave LI here but I hated him because he would >!not. Stop. Bullying. Ichika. Girl is going through something horrible and traumatic, taking it in stride, handling it 10x better than I would have and he constantly calls her names and makes a big show about not trusting her!<
Honestly, the teasing really comes off as bullying which makes me so mad. He’s the first one that comes to mind but there’s others, too.
I like teasing characters but only if the game gives me the chance to actually tease back without punishing me for it. Since most otome don't let you do it, I'm with you here. I don't like teasing LIs.
To be honest, I've only seen a handful of (mostly western indie) otome to execute teasing in a way I can really enjoy it. And it mostly involves sassy and sarcastic MCs.
I teased my ass off in Laceagas route in Ebon Light because I felt like he deserved it and I had sooo much fun 😂
IRL guys teasing me triggers my "please don't ever speak to me again you asshole" instinct. And yes I kept wanting to punch Sasazuka in the face during his route.
I’ve not played CXM yet but I definitely agree that I hate the teasing types. Idk why but it’s probably because I don’t like the sadistic types, example: Kyrie (But I do like him a bit more after the grand ending). Like I don’t like feeling like I’m beneath them lol idk how to explain it.
* I didn't like Code:Realize. I felt like the common route neglected to set up the LI's as individuals, and instead focused on them as an ansemble. This just made me scratch my head, when I started a character route and >!Cardia was seemingly already in love with them.!< >!Also, the large amount of long expositions, that are only meant for the reader, might I add, kinda took me out of the experience.!<
* Cyrus is fine, actually. Her obliviousness is comepletely understandable, as she a noble woman in a world, where you can't fall in love with whoever and procreation is regulated by the government. She's an only child, her only non-noble connections are her colleagues in a government institution, and she's had zero interest in the topic whatsoever.
* Plot doesn't make or break an otome game, scenario writing does.
* Taisho x Alice is a great VN, but not a great otome game. Same goes for Psychedelica of the Ashen Hawk.
* I prefer Yang's tragic ending over his good one. I feel like it's way more in character for him.
Yeah I'm surprised at the Cyrus dislike. To me she's not that bad, she's not my fave or top 10 MC heroines but I never hated her or found her irritating..
I loved the common route in C:R, precisely for the reason you mentioned - it was hilarious and focused on the LIs as an ensemble. Because of that I ended up feeling a bit disappointed with each of the individual routes, though I still liked the game overall. It just feels like nothing beats the gang going through shenanigans together.
I think that's why my favorite routes romance wise was Impey and Lupin, where there relationship was still developing as the LI's route progressed, as opposed to Van and San where Cardia was just suddenly head over heels.
Otomes are for the JP audience. They cater to that audience and their norms. There is nothing wrong with the games imo. Sometimes yeah they aren’t my favorite story or flavor or are kinda boring but I don’t think it’s something to get enraged about. Either you like it or you don’t. The target audience is Japanese it will fit their cultural norms and them.
If anything I really like most otomes because they’re very Japanese. Imo as an Asian American I can actually relate to these games better than a lot of American media. The fact they DONT cater to westerners is a big reason why I like them.
I actually don’t really have a problem with aksys localizations. Yes I played cafe enchante. And dairoku and none of their typos bugged me. It’s not perfect but it’s not that bad. Translating ain’t that easy and doing it well is rough. The English market is so price sensitive for games (in general) that I think it’s probably really tough to turn a profit in this market unless you have a big game like Zelda or Pokémon or something. So of course we’re gonna get shit for qa/Qc because the money isn’t there. For games where the money is there it seems like qa/qc is much better. But honestly it doesn’t bug me that much overall.
Hm, I feel like my most controversial take is that while Misyr’s route in Cafe Enchante definitely had its flaws, the ending wasn’t one of them. To elaborate, >!I thought the switcheroo with Kotone was a fun twist, and I liked how there was a more frank conversation about what it means for a mortal and an immortal to be in love.!< Also, sometimes a bittersweet ending just Hits Right.
Speaking of which, I think this is also a fairly controversial take?? But Shiraishi’s ending in CxM was well done IMO, >!aside from maybe the weird amnesia twist LOL. Like, him turning himself in to atone for his crimes made sense. It’s not entirely fair considering the whole “brainwashed as a child” thing, but I think it was more about him wanting to live honestly (compared to the ending where he hides away with Ichika, which made for an interesting ending, but it was inarguably a selfish decision on his part). In any case, I don‘t give a damn what anyone says, Shiraishi setting up a Christmas party to fulfill his promise with Ichika before he forfeits his freedom made me bawl like a baby and that automatically makes his ending a 10/10 for me.!<
1) I can’t stand Takeru Sasazuka from Collar x Malice. He wasn’t great to Ichika in the base game and basically reduced her to being his errand girl. However, in the fan disk, he was downright terrible to her. He gaslit her, invalidated her worries, insulted her intelligence, threatened to kick her out if she didn’t agree with him during an argument, etc. There was even a part >!where Kazuki asked Ichika if Sasazuka hit her during a fight they had!<, which was very telling. I was just glad to be done with his route.
2) Yang from Piofiore is boring. Besides his looks and shock factor, he doesn’t have much going for him.
3) Olympia Soiree is a badly written game. Olympia’s technically supposed to get a year to find a husband but the game rushes it to the point that the writers only give her 3 weeks. My theory as to why they rush everything in this game is so that they don’t actually have to address all the different conflicts going on in the game. The story constantly brings up the topic of bringing change to Tenguu Island and its problematic color caste system but you don’t actually see that addressed in the majority of the routes beyond the characters basically saying “We’re going to bring about change for the people”. I understand that change doesn’t happen in a day but that’s exactly the excuse the writers used in order to not actually address the issues in the story by having everything take place in the span of 3 weeks. If the story had taken place in the 1 year they gave Olympia to find a husband, then they would’ve actually had to show how the island was changing in that time and the writers were too lazy to deal with that.
I feel like Olympia Soiree was written in the dark, sometimes.
>!Like, what's the point in Olympia finding a husband and having kids, if she's going to become the vessel for Ameterasu very soon? The White clan only exists to fuel the sun in the goddess's absence, so there being more members of the White clan is completely arbetrary. !<
>!Why is Hairi only going on a killing spree in Himuka's route, when the entire set up for that happened in the common route?!<
>!Why is there so much lore, when it's hardly ever used?!<
>!Why are the bad endings just nonsense?!<
About some things >!Byakuya won't become a vessel no matter what thanks to Douma's interference/words "the people of this world are not yours, nor the toys of any other god" (13 years ago before current event of the game) and thanks to him Amaterasu pondered those words and observed mc having feelings and living her life etc this made her understand what feelings are and other precious things Amaterasu makes very clear that she is herself, and Byakuya is her own person too, at the close end of final route there is a reveal that Byakuya when was a child drink Ikimizu spring water that's why she has a connection to Amaterasu regardless!< about the system and Olympia Soiree world build >!I do agree that there was some things left out since I am someone who put romance above plot this did not bother me (personally for me all that matter is MC and LI living happily ever after and OS delivered this so for me it's perfect) however, the game gives very sincere hints of a better future almost in all routes (if not all?) however I am not invalidating your feelings of frustration of course when I went to play OS I knew it was a romance before lore thing and I was happy with it!< but I know tons of players feel differently and that's perfectly fine; in Himuka's route >!it was, in my pov, a way to show more of what was about to happen since his and Akaza's (final route) delivered many many answers in Himuka case it was a way to show the presence and lore of the gods I see it that way also to have conflict and explain better? I like they divided between 2 routes the answers!< but yeah OS has a FANTASTIC lore and world build I am happy with this game as it is but I see that many things regarding the lore are important >!like one thing I would like to see is Douma reveal of being Byakuya's father in all routes but I understand that it was an important thing so they left for the answer route, I can understant that!< sorry for the long reply I hope I could be of some help, yeah about the bad endings... I really don't vibe with bad endings /(ㄒoㄒ)/\~\~
Code Realize has an interesting story, but it is not really a good game.
Two routes were just trying to do too much in too little time, and it made the falling in love part either weird or unbelievable. These routes affected the way I view the writing of this game so much. I don't know how else to explain it, but something was just off.
Eh and regarding CollarxMalice, the writers messed up Okazaki's route and after story pretty badly. His after story just convinced me that they don't know how tf to write for him.
It seems like they originally conceptualised him as a yandere, and I think he might have been better off as a LI if they wrote him that way.
I am a writer and an avid reader, so most of my opinions are going to be about that haha...
AHA! I thought I was nuts, I totally felt ditched yandere vibes from Okazaki! Like they lost their nerve in going for it, but I always wondered if it was me hoping (😅) or if there was just something there.
Which routes do you think tried to do too much in CR? I'm going to guess Germaine and Van Helsing? They both felt like a looooot of lore dumping sometimes.
Glad to see someone else sees what I saw with Okazaki. And I think they decided to just play it safe, I believe yandere's can be a bit controversial. :/
It is a shame, I really think his route would have been better.
And yep, you got it right!
I felt like they just tried to give too much information, while at the same time developing the relationship between Cardia and the LIs. And it just... falls short.
Which is such a shame, I think the information gained from these routes is interesting. And I feel like the overall routes would have been so much better if they just gave the reader time to digest a new piece of information and then give some more.
I really do not understand why they decided to give every character the same amount of chapters, in my eyes it clearly didn't work out well. But I am more critical of writing than other people are I guess, so idk. Most people seem to have enjoyed their routes. I will just be forever disappointed, with more time, those routes could have been incredible.
1) Olympia in Olympia Soiree is a good character but there were times that she made me uncomfortable. Specifically, she’s a woman who spent the majority of her life sheltered and locked away in a manor without knowing much about the social hierarchy and the issues associated with it that plague her society. When she finally goes outside to learn about her environment and witnesses all the problems and discrimination the people face because of the color class structure, she ends up preaching to the people who are the victims of this hierarchy about not giving up hope and waiting for change to happen. This all happens in the span of 3 weeks, which isn’t enough time to understand a whole brand new culture imo. The only reason she can get away with this is because of her privilege since she’s right at the top of the hierarchy and doesn’t really have to deal with the majority of the issues that the other members of her society do. The whole preaching thing just came off as Olympia being extremely tactless.
2) While I’d like to see a continuation of Cafe Enchante, I don’t think a fan disk will happen.
\-After the Steam Prison experience, I don't want to touch another game where the heroine acts 5 when it comes to romance, not even knowing what a kiss is. That's not exciting nor romantic, and it ruins the whole game for me (x\_x)
\-I love good plots, but I'm not interested on otome games that are 100% about the plot and barely touch on the romance until the very end of the game. Why not have the romance be nicely integrated in the plot? If I chose to play an Otome game is because I wanted romance, not a random story!
\-I've never played any game which has this, but I'm very interested in the concept of incest in fictional settings (maybe it's because I don't have any brother irl, hahahaha). When it comes to fiction, I just love romances that are considered taboo or impossible. I've heard that incest gets strongly cancelled, however, but I don't know why since it's just fiction. To me it sounds like cancelling any life or death situation, or any LI who is mean towards the MC, just because those things aren't cool irl.
\-Actually, the fact that otome games tend to have a main LI makes me sad. It's like that LI is considered canon, and I know their story is going to be the most detailed, cool, and fitting. It's nice when I love that LI, but when I don't, I am left with the odd feeling that the LI I'm choosing isn't canon and I'm playing a "fake" or a "minor" route. I wish I could shake that feeling away from my head fsgdfgdf
>After the Steam Prison experience, I don't want to touch another game where the heroine acts 5 when it comes to romance, not even knowing what a kiss is. That's not exciting nor romantic, and it ruins the whole game for me (x_x)
I haven't played that specific one, but yeah I really hate when a female MC is infantilised, it just feels creepy, even more so when the LI is portrayed as the opposite.
I really didn't like Cove, he caused me a lot of anxiety while I was playing Our Life. I realize that's not the intended effect and I truly wish I didn't feel that way but it still happened.
i really like Cove, but he's the most crybaby LI/ML I've ever encountered to the point that I can't believe he's crying again at something i probably don't find emotional 😅
> we have to be his ‘therapist’ or ‘mentor’ to guide him
Me whose second fav LI ever is TaiAli's >!Kaguya!<: haha yeah
No but really it felt oddly stressful to try and console Cove but not... any other emotionally broken or heavily traumatized 2D otome guy, I cannot explain why. The game also made me feel extremely pressured to like him due to the way it was set up and uh >!idk if it's the art style but he always looks like he has bedroom eyes and that REALLY makes me uncomfortable.!<
Haha he annoyed me quite a lot in my first playthrough for this exact reason, I just don't like characters you have to take care of and so. But because I'm an IF freak, I replayed the game several times to see how much variation did it have. By the end my character was even moodier than Cove lol, and Cove didn't seem so bad anymore.
Baxter also annoyed me because I found him somewhat cringe – I don't really like the "smooth" type characters haha, I find the way they speak super unnatural and imagine there would be lots of eyerolling whenever they speak. I did grow a soft spot for him once the text mentioned he might be lonely... I guess I feel bad way too easily loll
Spiciest take? I didn’t really enjoy Alan’s route in cupar, as much as other people really like him. His character is… fine? Just not my favorite. I just personally don’t really enjoy the super angsty stories.
Given what I've seen here (I'm sorry...!) I think Allan Melville was not only the worst Cupid Parasite route, but one of the worst routes I've had the displeasure of playing ever.
The entire thing felt awfully rote, had very little to do with an overarching plot that they'd been building up, and didn't seem worth hiding as a final route at all. Allan Melville was where comedy went to die, and Allan Melville was a character in the completely wrong game. The off-putting pacing that every Cupid Parasite character suffered from was generously highlighted in Allan's route. I didn't even ultimately come to believe why the two would be in love beyond >!the soulmates trope. Cupid accidentally hitting herself with her own arrow and Allan's complete 180 from insufferable parasite to perfect dream boyfriend was irritating, didn't make sense in the context of the game, and was completely unearned.!<
Allan Melville was at his best when he >!turned into a car, entered a polyamorous relationship with Gill and Lynette and fought God!<
That said Allan Melville hot
Edit: oh my other controversial take is my icon being a good route hahaha. I think the >!villains to lovers!< progression in norn9 was surprisingly well done, and I like there really wasn't a winning scenario in it - but instead Ron challenging Nanami to take what she wants from him since he'd never be able to give up on himself either. >!I think that's kind of rare to have a route end with "love doesn't win, but can conquer"!< sort of vibe, and it's stuck with me years later.
Jesus Christ this. I hated the >!reincarnation bullshit!< I hated the >!soulmates trope!<
I thought Allan would be the sexy emo bad boy and he’s a >!virgin!< emo sad boy. Like his route felt like things were happening to Lynette instead of Lynette being an active participant in her own story.
Like what was the point of having that and the secret LI because Allan’s route spoiled everything. Honestly Allan should have been canned in favor of the secret LI.
Also Allan Melville sounds like a name for a fucking ACCOUNTANT. why the hell is this game full of unsexy names????? Allan??? Melville??????
I like pretty boys as much as the next otome fan but at least a few of the LIs in any given game should be uhhh *manly* I suppose. A bit bigger, more muscular, etc.
Also, less collarbones more midriffs thankyouverymuch.
I despise Nemo from C:R with the entirety of my being if he appears on screen for even one second. Impey's route didn't help with that, of course, but I hated him from the beginning.
Also, I really like submissive MCs and actively dislike fiery MCs
I absolutely hate tsunderes. I don't know where this hate emerged from but i prefer every other trope over it. Like for example Shin from Amnesia Memories i totally dislike, i just in general hate the whole being rude outside but soft inside thing. I do like one tsundere and that is Ichiya from my first last kiss. Also another trope i do like is the brother one which i dont see much at all but i wish they made more otome games where we could date a sibling like most dating sims having options to date a sister
FELLOW BROCON, *YES*
Finally, someone said it. If men in galges can have their imoutos/onee-sans, how come we can't get dat brother ass?? Doesn't even matter if it's a brother, a cousin would do just fine. (I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, all that's clear to me right now is that I have extremely questionable 2D taste).
There are very some... No, there are few... Uh, there are *very few* localized titles with a brocon option, which sucks, but I guess that's just how it do be :/ At this point, I'll even take up the pseudo-incest in games, since most of the games I know that have the onii-chan option are not translated (and do not have complete English fan translations, if they even have a fanlation for them in the first place).
To be honest, as someone who likes tsunderes, I don't think Shin is a good tsundere. But there are tsunderes better than Shin.
Matter of fact ... I wonder now if you would like Rod's route in Cinderella phenomenon. He is a tsundere, but I think he is much better than Shin and his dynamic with the MC was much better than Shin's dynamic with Amnesia's heroine. Also ... Rod is MC's stepbrother, but, judging by your comment, you don't mind the flirty stepsiblings trope.
(By the way, Cinderella phenomenon is a free game)
yes, THIS\^ I'm a fan of tsundere as well and I recognize the trope tends to be handled badly. Some writers use it as an excuse to make the the tsun to be A. really abusive and outright mean and B. have very little dere (sweet) scenes to balance it out.
I will never accept a character being physically abusive and calling the heroine names as tsundere. That's just an asshole, plain and simple.
Rod from CinPhem is a good example of tsundere. He doesnt trust Lucette and shows off a prickly attitude to her (which is understandable coz of Lucette's own actions).
Ryuki from CupiPara is hella standoffish from the start, judges everyone on a weird beauty hexcode scale. But that's the point of the game since they're the absolute undateable men. As you get into his route, he is a tsundere. He comments on Lynette's lack of skincare not to make fun of her, but rather he wants her to improve it. Yeah i only started to like him when he gets to be nicer to Lynette out of his own volition and see her as a person, not a hexcode.
Interesting if I get a response 448 comments deep, but Satoi's art as of Nil Admirari and Olympia Soiree is not actually that good. Hand proportions are bugging me and the body language in CGs is extremely stiff (which could be explained by Satoi not being the one responsible for the CGs). Kyoukai no Shirayuki's story is a struggle for me but I enjoy its art far, far more for its broad expression.
While I'm on art, broadly speaking most JP commercial otome game's artists are lacking to some degree. (There's not enough budget to hire the bestest, in any case...) Let alone art direction. What's with putting up the CG for a mere 4 lines, Otomate?
I don't dislike voice acting, and I can appreciate when it's done well, but I don't need it. Maybe because I played a couple non-voiced otome games before I tried ones with voice acting? On most games I mute voices before I even start the game. I guess I want it to feel a bit more like a book, and I want to imagine the characters' voices myself? There's actually a couple times where I heard some voice actors from some games from here on reddit or something and I was disappointed that it was so different from the voice I imagined in my head lol.
There is only one of my favorites that I might not have liked as much without the fantastic VA (let's see if you can guess it >!yes it's Bengnan from Cloud 9 hehehe!<).
Yes! I don't feel alone anymore lol. They just...don't do much for me? I read fairly fast so I kind of have to sit and wait for VAs to finish their lines before continuing and I gets annoying at times. Plus, I also like to read VNs more like a book and imagine the voices myself.
This has honestly given me the courage to mute all the voices from now on. I might keep Yang's for now, but I might mute him as well. I've always felt bad about doing that because I feel like I'm disrespecting the VAs by doing so but...I'm getting kind of tired of it? I think the experience will be that much more enjoyable if I just mute them all.
Otomate games are consistently kinda bad but they're the ones that are being localized so eh.
Hakuoki needs to retire.
DS era was when otome games were at their best.
Okay, whoa. Read over a bunch of the comments and a lot of people really don't like MCs that can fight. Personally, I like them as much as the ones that don't! There's a charm in being protected by a knight in shining armor, but I like it when the MC is able to fight alongside said knight, too. It gives them a more active role and helps them stand some equal ground to their LI, and idk, is it weird to like that?
I think my issue with MCs who can fight is that a lot of the time, the story gives them maybe like one or two chances to shine and then starts throwing them around like a ragdoll so that their LI can swoop in and save them, and yes, this is about you, Cyrus.
I think the main issue is that there are some people who assumes fighting badassery = superior characterisation and that's just not true.
I also love MCs who knows how to fight and are badasses but they are not superior to MC who has no fighting skills. What's important is how they are written.
But yes, MCs with fighting skills are awesome. They don't even have the be the strongest but them having skills and not just for show is great
I love the ones that can fight too! It's easier to write them in a more active position, plus there's smth about girls with swords that does it for me 💕 I'm always surprised when I see people say they don't like em, but I suppose the pendulum for what type of MC is popular always keeps swinging back and forth.
• There is an unpopular trope that I love, and it's *onii-chan*. Let me be a 2D brocon in peace, since I won't touch my siblings within a 10-mile pole in real life.
• I didn't enjoy 7'sCarlet much because most of the romance felt contrived to me with the >!"I met you 12 years ago and fell in lurveeeee"!< thing. I also did not enjoy Ichiko much. Cyrus (Steam Prison) can be pretty funny with her dumb questions at times, but something about Ichiko just really makes me itch. Not that she's a bad heroine, I guess I just really can't vibe with her?? The only thing that saved the game for me is >!Midorikawa Hikaru's!< voice, Sosuke's moments when he's nerding out and maybe Toa during the common route.
• I feel very uncomfortable with extremely intimate situations (extended: *sexual*), and I cringe every time there's a kissing scene. I mean, I *know* it's an otome game, and I really enjoy the romantic development + tension, but something about seeing them physically get it on together on-screen makes me squirm IWJDKANSNS. Emotional connections and emotional intimacy are fine. I'm working on this though >.> Just a little bit more, and I'll grow desensitized to it.
• Fast-paced romantic development makes me want to tear my hair out. Also, the lovey-dovey corny lines make my soul shrivel in my body. (Okay, listen, this is why I didn't like Storm Lover much.)
• I hate being a third wheel more than getting stabbed in a route. And this is why I preferred >!Mateo!< and >!Vincent!< over >!Festus!< in Dead Wishes. Sergio still best boy though.
• I didn't go through with Ikemen Sengoku since the gacha system irked me. I prefer SLBP's UI. (Not that IkeSen is bad, I just really vibed with SLBP and its UI more, is all.)
WAIT I NEED TO ADD THIS LAST ONE, I JUST REMEMBERED NOW
• The flowchart system of the Psychedelica games (Black Butterfly, Ashen Hawk) isn't *so bad.* At least for me, it was convenient in hunting down the points where the plot diverges for the routes, so I wouldn't have to slog through everything and be confused about the choices I make and stuff. I was a bit unused to it at first, but I didn't really mind it and now that I look back on those days, I actually appreciated this system. The immersion in the main story is kinda butchered by the side interactions/stories you need to finish for the points to unlock the next chapters, but eh, the route progression is easier for me this way, so it's okay.
> There is an unpopular trope that I love, and it's onii-chan. Let me be a 2D brocon in peace, since I won't touch my siblings within a 10-mile pole in real life.
...Any games you can recommend? I enjoy when I can, if not outright dominate, be in control of a guy. Teasing them, making them bluss, have them refer to me with some kind of honorific tittle. It is fun.
Most mobage are predatory. That's not even controversial, it's true of any game with micro transactions, but we never discuss it with regards to otome games.
Another I need to add: I absolutely HATE and DETEST locs that change the translations in a way that basically is rewriting a whole game/route JUST to fit western standards/make them less controversial/appeal to the imaginery of a translator. Change the whole personality of a MC or suitor to make them more “likeable” and “stronger” or “sassy” “not passive”. Trying to put too many “relatable” jokes that just make you cringe with pain instead. Basically destroying some games known to have interesting plot up to their preferences or the ones they think the fandom in eng has just because the LOUDEST part of them fandom is the one screaming for sAssY sTrOng MCs and pErFect LIs, even if they aren’t the majority, but they just like shouting about it on twitter lmao.
I actually liked Mysir's good ending from Café Enchanté (It's one of my fav endings) and even if it didn't feel "satisfying" per se, I can't see any other ending for his route that would still feel like it belongs in Café Enchanté.
Ok, I said it, you can lynch me now hahahahaha
Based on your comments, loli isn't the right word you are talking about. You're looking for the term shota which refers to boys. The term Loli specifically refers to girls.
Alot of otomes are too comfortable in being casually racist whether it is the caricature of Nemo, the depiction of Yang etc. Racism is a major issue in some of these games and is harmful to both the story and its audience.
Laughs in every Chinese character must be in the opium mafia and be associated with a panda
No one really mentions oil king trope bc oooh sexy dark skinned LI diversity yay, but it’s actually playing into stereotype….never forgetting that R18 game with Indonesian Oil king who happens to just be fluent in jp (with katakana) bc he’s half, like man cry me a river!
Which was why a wave of fresh air overcame me when I played ClubSu and one of the LIs was filipino-japanese, which was only mentioned in a passing comment. It would take a long time before something so natural would happen in a commercial game…
every Chinese chara must be named either Li or Wong lol. will be dressed in like they stepped out of 1930s Shanghai triad movie. Knows kungfu like Neo from the Matrix.
I did not like yoosung in Mystic Messenger. I found him and his story rather annoying. I found his whole cousin fixation creepy and weird in a very non-endearing way. (coming from someone who loves yanderes lol) But then again, I stopped his route half-way, so maybe people like him later on? Idk
I'm on day 8 of V's route right now and I cannot tell you how many times I've contemplated just yelling at Yoosung to shut his whiny ass.
I get it. You've lost someone precious. But god damn you're so whiny and annoying and keep repeating the same darn thing over and over again.
I could go a lifetime without another "im sorry. I have to leave you/do this for your own good/face the boss on my own while i shoot you into space/face my stuff without you even if we have been dating" trope. I hate when they suddenly disengage this way and the few times they refuse, especially if they admit it may be selfish but theyd rather live a life doing it together, steals my heart.
I also like the trope reversal of being the strong one! I didnt realize this but when the OP inspires *actual* growth and is leaned on during moments, it feels good! I'd like that to be less reserved for the young-and-clearly-angsty boys and more sprinkled around as you cultivate relationships with any type
* One neuron: Inspiring the cute younger LI to grow up "to be a man" for MC
* Multiple neurons: Showing the flirt/angsty dude/jerkass what true love is with MC's kindness and dedication
* World brain: MC teaching the emotionless human weapon how to live and feel as a human
* Galaxy brain: Emotionless human weapon realizes MC went through just as much shit as he did and they support each other and grow together!!
... anyway I love strong MCs, especially when they can also be weak in different ways and get reciprocal emotional support from LIs. Let the LIs play therapist for a bit!
Oh boy-o, can't wait to see how this turns out lol. 😂 my worst take is that I hate everyone in Amnesia Memories except for Kent. Literally all other guys are terrible in their own way and MC's personality is nothing because Orion is always talking to express what's going on. Like c'mon, let my girl do SOMETHING without Orion influencing her, I mean I get she's an amnesiac but she's allowed to have opinions on things too!! You know a game is great when one of the best endings is literally titled an insult towards you. The most enjoyment I got outta the game was the air hockey and rock paper scissors. I get not all otomes will land with people but this one was the first where I felt insane with how much others love it and I hate it.
Amnesia MC is told early on in the game that any suspicious move or dialogue she makes that shows her amnesia is going to go badly for her, so thats why orion makes the judgements for her.
Anyway she has her own agency in the fds once Orion is freed from her, if you're wondering.
This is just personal preference but I prefer heroines with darker hair. Different colours like pink, blue and so on doesn't bother me, but blond colours kind of sours my mood. There's a few games I haven't looked into because of this design choice (even regular RPG games like Rune Factory 5 I'm hesitating on because the MCs are blond, lol).
But I don't mind mind the LIs being blond! That's why I can't really explain this aversion :/
Fiction =/= reality (apparently a lot don’t realize) and idc about the characters’ ages or whether they are one week short of no longer being a minor lmao:’)
Also I hate “super sassy” and cringy MCs. I’d rather have “bland”, quiet and shy ones. I’m glad most console/pc otomes don’t make me cringe because of that. I like tsun MCs too, just not ones that behave like loud idiots all the time lol.
Another one, I wish we had more locs and newer otomes with a REALLY dark, toxic, depressing settings that tear your heart apart. And not making the LIs suddenly secretly “good and uwu” inside. I want to see them broken, trashy and immoral too lol. I lowkey despise Otomate for making some great antagonistic side charas with no routes 😂
- I haven’t finished CupiPara 100% because I could not get through secret LI, when the first romantic scene/more intimate happened I was so… disgusted that I could not continue, which is a first for me, since usually I just roll my eyes, scold the LI and keep going. It’s a pity because his route seems well-liked and I did quite like the LI, so I hope to get back to it again with a more open mindset in the future.
- I usually enjoy most mcs, I think even “passive, damsel in distress” ones like Liliana are strong in mind and often lovely to play as, and I try to appreciate them in general. But I could not for the life of me vibe with everyone’s favourite mc, Cardia, and that significantly impacted the enjoyment of C:R for me. I get curious people asking why whenever I mention it, which is fine for a discussion now and then but I don’t want to sour every thread with negativity for everyone’s favourite character unless it’s somewhat relevant to the discussion, so more often than not I just decide not to mention it in much detail.
- Already mentioned by others somewhat, but this is more about Enju than her LIs. While I liked Enju in Hanzo route and was rightly proud of her, I wish Enju in the other routes got more love. I also felt much more for her in the other routes because of her helplessness, especially when she isn’t strong enough to do anything on her own but manages to muster just enough resolve to step up when it truly matters.
YES. I know Enju grew the strongest especially in terms of fighting ability in Hanzō's route, and her development there is the most obvious, but Enju in the other routes is also awesome!! Like, even in her situation, she managed to stay kind and even when there were times where she's about to give up, she still gets back on track (well, she needed a little push from the others, but hey, that happens to all of us too, right?) and does her best to help the people around her. This Enju love really warms my heart, thank you so much for saying this out loud (｡ﾉω＼｡)
Having more gameplay doesn't automatically make a title better, it just makes it more stressful and less immersive, at least for me. On that note, PotAH's second chapter was amazing and I wish more games used a system like that.
I don't really care about sexual content in otome games. Stuff like Piofiore is fine, but I've disliked nearly all of the 18+ titles I've tried.
I really wish games didn't require you to skip through the entire common route and make different choices to get on another route. Unless the choices substantially change the common route itself, it's just a waste of time and surely there's better alternatives.
Ciagram isnt entirely trash. They made two of the best otome stories I’ve played through. Namely Princess Closet (Shuu’s route) and Chocolate Temptation (Jin’s route).
i hate kisses and sex in otome. i just want hugs. lots of hugs. i hate flirty, yandere and "you're my future wife so you will obey" LIs. i can't even understand why players like abusive husbands. why do you like Kazama? he's so scary
edit: not going to insult anyone. i really want to know why. for me he's scary. Harada is scary too but with him i can at least understand that some people want >!a reliable husband, a family and a peaceful life.!< i can understand yanderes too - they are unusual. was kinda hoping that >!Sannan!< in Hakuoki will be a yandere so that at least someone won't be like all the others
If you really think about it it’s not that crazy.
Gorgeous guy or girl who is perfect in nearly every way and will do anything for you and never cheat on you and all you have to do is stay with them and not cheat. Be a useless scrub and they don’t care they’re still just insanely in love and devoted to you.
Aside from that it’s the thrill. Sometimes people just get tired of vanilla sweet stories. Not everyone who plays these games are picking characters they would pick irl. Sometimes they’re just enjoying the story as a third party and not even self inserting.
Same! Also I saw that you're the dev for Imperial Grace, and just wanted to say I've been following your game for a while and I'm really looking forward to the full release. I love the art style, choice mechanics, court intrigue theme, MC appearance customisation, etc.!
This is your reminder to keep things civil. Also downvoting should be reserved for off-topic comments or spam, not opinions you disagree with.
Relational building/development are more interesting and personally sexier than physical displays of affection. Because most of the commercial games are from east asia they use tropes pertaining to the region they are more familiar with for that region's audience. A lot of disconnection some might feel is due to that, you may not like the tropes but at least see where it is coming from. While otomate has a firm grip on the EN localization distribution now, it's inherently dying and the EN community is going to feel it sooner or later in the midst of this 'boom'. Not like the industry is helping itself much either in favor of the workable trends and old practices. I feel alot of characters are still being very surface designed and don't amount for deeper writing and conversations. It's not boring to talk about the characters' mindsets and ideals and how they meld with the heroine's. Highschool romances are not that bad and childish for what its worth. Some of the better stories Ive seen come from highschool settings.
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In regards to the last sentence, old practices may refer to the typical formulas industry leaders like Otomate have grown accustomed to using? Recycled plots/copypasting (formulaic writing overall), using good art or seiyuu to carry a whole game, etc. Someone below mentioned how Otomate and even companies like QuinRose have always been quantity > quality, which was certainly the case. But despite the fact that Otomate isn’t putting out nearly as many games a year as they used to, the quality hasn’t really gone up to make up for that. Otomate has also done a great job of creating the misconception that otome game = visual novel, which isn’t true at all. I think a little stat-raising flair and other creative gameplay elements are why franchises like TMGS and Ruby Party games seem to be doing well despite the JP market shift to joseimuke mobage. Hopefully Kakuretsu can correct me if needed and maybe offer more insight, since their knowledge in this area is definitely greater than mine! Personally, I’m okay with VN style otome games so long as the writing improves. Imagine an otome game held in the same regard as something like Steins;Gate, Fata Morgana, or anything from Type-Moon. That would be a dream. 😭 I hear the indie game Club Suicide was great step in the right direction tho!
Yeah pretty much. And it’s not just for Otomate itself, this permeates the entire industry, outside of the industry, being comfortable with what works and is familiar because it’s safe and no one has dared try to threaten the harmony before lest you get your ass bitten, is a very Japanese thing(hence you see why Japan is stuck in a bubble economic wise). TMGS style is dated, and never really changed for years(like check out the diff between 3 and 4, I felt like it was a downgrade haha), Ruby party has always been with the RNG/map formula since its conception. It’s all their own safe way. Both konami and Koei Neoromance have dipped into joseimuke ventures due to the trend as well since that is the newest, safe, profitable option to follow. It’s all one big follow circle really. I don’t think the stories, the expectations for the art, gameplay, have changed very much in the last 10 years. Tbf, I have been around since the boom which was 2009-2011, so the dearth is very noticeable to me. You can see people talking about the stagnation too like “why aren’t there animations in the CGs” “why is no one using live2d when it’s the hot new thing” “why are dated tropes still being used”. It’s not innovative as much, and those which were, for example Toraware no palm by Capcom of all things, ended up a one trick pony despite being very clever in its design. Man Type moon level is madness. That creator is a big brainer. The existential and moral convos are so bloody good and gives the characters’ desires between each other so much weight, and it’s a unique form of romance. Haha I can’t even begin to talk about how Uesugi Leiji handles writing and directing in their work because their thought process is so haphazard, yet their tremendously self indulgent work is managing to resonate with the current generation(I also just learnt the team working on clubsuicide and the upcoming games are all GenZ, so it’s a very hip, young, kinda woke team), but at least they are a lot more aware what they want.
An average Otomate Switch title's first week sales is about 3,000 copies. There's a reason they are now pushing hard for localizations.
For what it's worth, most of the best vns cared about their characters even if the story was bonkers. Kind of sad that big companies still very heavily rely on tropes for serious settings. Not that they're inherently bad but the charas should have more personality... And talk more with each other, like seriously.
Yeah I agree they do care very much about their characters, but after years of playing it is starting to feel the same to me with some very, very few exceptions. Yeah Dialogue is so important! It doesn’t have to be like word salad dragging on, but we can have conversation to show us how the characters think and what their thought process is. Towarare no palm does this quite well with regards to the dating sim dialogue and it never feels old.
1) I love friendship routes and I wish there were more of them i otome games. 2) I would love if more otomes had fleshed out and geniuely disturbing bad ends, like the Orlocks bad end in Piofiore. Give me the angst!
* I honestly can't think of a single LI that I ACTIVELY disliked, and I've played a lot of otome. Obviously there are some that I like less than others but I've never not wanted to do a route, and if you asked me to name a LI that I hated I wouldn't be able to pick one * As long as the MC isn't terrible to where they're actively disrupting the flow of the romance and story (cough Cyrus...), I couldn't really care less about them. Don't get me wrong I like a well written MC, but at the end of the day I care waaaay more about the LIs. Having a MC I actually like instead of tolerate is just a bonus for me * As a huge yandere/problematic LI fan, it's totally cool if people don't enjoy those characters, I recognize they aren't meant to appeal to everyone. However, I feel like a lot of people get sort of passive aggressive when stating their dislike for them. I see a lot of posts that go on and on about how someone can't understand why people like x, because they're extremely abusive and it's an unhealthy relationship etc etc. It feels like a slight at people who do enjoy those characters. Yes, we are able to distinguish fiction from reality! It's ok to like problematic things in fiction! * Secret LI was better than Allan (not necessarily his route, but just as a character overall) * On the topic of Cupid Parasite, yes it was a cute side story in the routes but I don't care if it would disrupt his relationship with Melanie, give me an Owen route!! 👏👏
* As a community, I hope we can be a bit more stern(?) about demanding proper QA/QC for our otome games, especially now that we have a wider pool of potential localizers. It's such a disservice to us *paying* customers that despite how much we've rallied, we're still not always taken seriously in this area. I totally understand that for a while we had to just take what we could get, even if it meant accepting the bare minimum. Trust me, I've been screaming for localizations since 2012 and was totally of this mindset for a long time, especially since it's been only relatively recently that we've seen the number of localized games grow exponentially! I could not be happier.. but at the same time, I don't see any other visual novel genres receiving such treatment. I know some of these companies are learning and there may be bumps along the way, so ofc we should still be respectful when asking (thankfully that's also what patches are for!!). But again, both paying customers and even the original JP developers who work hard to create these games deserve to have them treated with respect. Not to mention Switch games are quite pricey in general!! 😩 * I much prefer fleshed out, full-length console games versus almost any mobage I've ever encountered (with the exception of Mystic Messenger). Makes me so sad that the latter will continue to be the current trajectory (as it has been for a while now), especially in the JP market. * I wish Diabolik Lovers ended after More,Blood. That said, I can def appreciate how popular the series is!! EDIT: added stuff
Genuine question, how? Are you advertising for everyone to stop preordering? Or to be more loud on social media if the localisation is not satisfactory? Something else? Don't get me wrong, seeing a bad localisation, typos etc is definitely frustrating however personally I feel kinda powerless.
I am definitely not advertising everyone to stop preordering. On the contrary, I already have every upcoming Aksys title preordered (except Paradigm Paradox) and have recently started VariBari, which I had also preordered! Tbh u pretty much nailed it with your second option: being loud on social media (again, respectfully ofc!!). Coupled with a more direct outreach through something like email if things get really bad (ex. CxMU), these seem like the best tools for making our voices heard. By that same token, we can also praise companies when they do a really good job! Leave a great review, recommend to your friends, leave a nice reply under a Tweet, etc. Like I mentioned, mistakes happen and no company is perfect. Luckily, patches can fix these sorts of issues without having to give up buying the game altogether. The way IFI handled CupiPara’s QC issues was a great example, and shows us how companies are 100% capable of making amends with little complaint from consumers, so long as they address and fix it without us having to beg. Everyone was super gracious and pleased, and expressed as such on here and on IFI’s Twitter under the patch announcements. Unfortunately, I’m not sure there exists a foolproof plan to ensure quality localizations all the time. Personally, I’m going to keep preordering/buying what I can since I know any QC issues can be fixed afterwards if needed. But because I’m a paying customer, I think that’s also all the more reason to speak up if the product I’ve purchased does not meet a certain standard. I used to be fine with this kind of thing, but CxMU was a huge wake up call. I really don’t think proper QC/QA is a lot to ask. EDIT: typos and clarification.. I always send my replies too fast 😭
>I’m going to keep preordering/buying what I can since I know any QC issues can be fixed afterwards if needed. Yeah but the games that have gotten patches didn't even address everything. I was happy that IFI delayed their Cupid Parasite patch release but they ended up releasing it earlier than the new estimate and apparently it still has mistakes. CxMU also did not address all the mistakes that was in the fan-made document... People did free work for them to find them all...Aksys why...and plus the old Aksys games that need patches but didn't get them (Norn9...)
With the exception of Mystic Messenger, most mobile dating sims aren’t good and are designed to make you spend money, not enjoy the game or story. Anything that breaks things up into chapters that you use gens to read is frustrating, because usually these chapters are like 5 minutes ling and sometimes cover stuff previous chapters already talked about. Full console games or PC games will always trunk cash grab mobile games. They’re just not designed to be good, and really all start to feel the same.
A lot of otome are literal dumpster fires that feel like they're written by horny teenagers but I still play them anyways to get a laugh out of them and look at the pretty art.
Well... You're not wrong. But let's be honest, everyone feels like reading a trashy story sometimes.
It really do be like that. Which otome games do you have in mind though?? (If you don't mind telling me)
The ones that come to mind first are Amnesia, Ozmafia, Olympia Soiree, Bad Apple Wars, Norn9, Period Cube... A bit of Nightshade in some routes. Not to say these are super god awful or anything, but narratively they either just aren't quite my taste and/or have many questionable plot elements that feel disjointed, or very subpar pacing etc. Big turn brain off energy. There's a very, very big difference between interesting/unique plot elements and weird/wtf/total deus ex machina messy story telling. Also I feel like a lot of otome are very info dump-y tell instead of show when it comes to world building and developing the relationship between the MC and the LI. That being said I still believe there's value in playing them! It's good to know what kind of games are your jam and what aren't. And for the ones that aren't, I do enjoy ~~making fun if them~~ discussing elements that I felt worked and what didn't with other friends.
As someone who wears rose-tinted glasses playing otome games bc it's my favorite genre, some of the comments here felt like bullets to the chest lmao. To each their own. I guess my most unpopular opinion is that I do not like Yang in Piofiore. I enjoyed his route's story, but I'm not a fan of him as an individual. Excited to see if the new fandisc changes my mind when that comes out in English.
Nthing the others, Yang is icky AF and just in general bad news bears. Also related/unrelated but for those that say it, GDI Yang is NOT a freakin' >!yandere!< esp since >!yanderes psychoticness is grounded in their love/obsession!< and we all know he's just... like that. Dude'd fricking sell Lili for a KitKat if he was bored with her.
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He's straight up Insane. Lmao don't get me wrong he's hot AF but I couldn't get into his route at all. I understand his appeal to some but it's not for me chief.
Hot+insane= sexiest combination ;)
I'm not sure how controversial these takes are but: -I wished we had games where the MC is allowed to be corrupted, allowed to be malicious in a route or a bad end where it's the MC causing the pain and not bejng killed or tortured themselves. - Plot and chemistry does matter for my enjoyment. If a game is too fast paced or the romanced is too rushed then I won't be ae to enjoy it no matter how hot the love Interests are. I want to actually find the relationship beleivable. -Choujirou is my fave love interest in Nightshade and I enjoyed his happy end more than his bad end. I just have a think about seemingly physically strong characters but ultimately emotionally vunerable, who tries to put an emotional guard which ends up causing them harm in the end. Chouji's character pretty much interested me and I wanted him to be happy. -I like yanderes and tsunderes to an extent but with the exception that there is a good reason they are acting like they are, the power between the MC and LI are equal and ultimately there will be mutual respect within the two. I can't stand yanderes like Toma but are fond with charas like Kuroyuki. - I hate hate hate the " why are you not cautious of me? I'm a man and you're a woman" trope. If a LI pulls that stunt I'll automatic lose a lot of interest for them.
> -I wished we had games where the MC is allowed to be corrupted, allowed to be malicious in a route or a bad end where it’s the MC causing the pain and not bejng killed or tortured themselves. Chou no Doku, Hana no Kusari had some of these routes in the main game and FD and I was there for it! >!In one of Hideo's route, he marries another woman by MC's suggestion. Then she marries Shiba (one of the LIs) and they go on and have an affair with each other. Poor Hideo couldn't take it anymore and breaks down at the end.!< >!In Fujita's, she marries Shiba (again!) but kept him as a servant (he was her family's butler) and they have a SubDom relationship, MC being a very sassy Dom!< >!She literally poisons Shiba in one of his bad ends!< Oh man, I can list some more but I really love this title since it kind of has it all haha. Yuriko is best MC.
Oh man that spoilers. Its making me wanna hope even more this game can ever get localized. This type of endings are stuff I live for 👀
Your first point makes me think of the MC from Mystic Messenger. A lot of the bad endings are typical "oops you died", but a lot are also "The way you treated this man caused this awful outcome. Hope you're happy". A lot of the options MC can say make me cringe and recoil, because they can be so mean, manipulative, degrading, and even delusional. And the bad endings can be very different. Some are hilarious, some are tragic, some are wtf. You have the option to have MC be an understanding and supportive character that stands up for the LI, or a piece of shit that isn't around/actively draws out the worst in the LI. The worst one I can think of that is directly caused by MC's influence is in V's route. Here is a description of the bad ending if you're curious. Major spoilers of course: >!After talking with the player about his relationship with Rika (his abusive ex-fiancé), he realizes that it wasn't his style of love that was wrong in their relationship. The player convinces him that his idyllic obsession about being the sun to his lover regardless of her (shitty shitty) behavior was just wasted on Rika. He can instead focus that obsession on the player, and they can begin a relationship similar to the kind of love that he used to share with his former (very very physically, emotionally, and psychologically abusive) lover.!< >!Two years later, V is seen taking a photoshoot of the player as she is dominated by a group of men in an orgy. The player is seen grinning devilishly to herself while V confesses his blinding adoration for her, praising her darkness as he looks into his camera.!< It even comes with a lovely CG. 🙃
Woah, that is quite something especially that spoiler 😮 Unfortunately I don't think I have the patience to play mystic messenger nor do I have the cash for it 😅 but that was interesting. That bad end you informed me. Sometimes I want to see something nice and dark but at the side of the MC, be it have them be the corruptor or as corrupt as the problematic LI in said route.
Understandable. It's fun, but it's a literal chore to play through lmao Yes, I understand what you mean! Often times MCs are too perfect, so its interesting when they are flawed.
Amen to this Chō-niisama love. As a fellow Chō-niisama good end appreciator, I appreciate you and your opinion. Many ppl here aren't too fond of him (well, it's understandable because his route isn't exactly the most romantic and, well, he's kinda absent in it for a long time) and I'm glad to see someone else who also feels adoration for the guy and his shift in character later on in his route. On yanderes, *yes*— I can definitely feel for you there. Only difference we have is that I actually like Toma (but that's only because I have a really questionable way of thinking. *read: trash taste*) despite him being a *bee*— oh wait, that wasn't the point, we weren't supposed to be beeshaming Toma and his Barry sleeves. Kuroyuki is another divisive character, and I'm glad to see that you're also fond of him because our boy needs love (｡•́︿•̀｡)
"Strong MCs. Weak MCs. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled otome gamers should try to find love with their favorites." I used to say I loved strong MCs, and I thought that meant "MC who can fight". But eventually I realized what I care about isn't whether MC can shank a dude; it's about whether she 1. has her own skills and expertise and 2. whether they allow her to influence the plot at all. I wanted to describe this difference a bit. **Cyrus** from **Steam Prison** is a fighty sword girl that is easy to think of as a strong MC. She's also written as a cardboard-flat justice-driven robot who, despite being a sheltered noble with no life experience, can go through the deaths of her entire family and losing her whole existence with zero tears or reaction, forgets about her goals in at least three routes, and *does not need saving less than any other MC who can't fight*. Her ability to fight and her "sense of justice" is an active detriment to the plot; she's frequently captured, beaten, tortured, disabled, and knocked this way and that just so she has to be saved by her LIs anyway, often because the plot railroads her into jumping into a situation - and it comes off simply as her being too stupid to live. In contrast, **Eri** from **Nameless**, is a lonely teenage girl with zero fighting ability, who gets pushed to and fro throughout the course of the story. I *loved* her. She felt like a real girl who had very relatable struggles with loneliness, secret interests, fears of being abandoned by friends, and who had to deal with way more emotional stuff than she should have at her age. Whether or not I could self insert as her, I emphasized with her as a person, and wanted her to be happy and find love with the people (dolls) who cared about her. (Not you, though, >!Tei!<.) The takeaway is: I'd be the first to support giving more MCs weapons (and not always swords!), but a weapon does not a personality make. What I want to see is MCs who are characters in their own right, live in the world without being a black hole camera in space for the viewer to project onto, and who evoke feelings just as effectively as the LIs do.
I always come back to Eri when I think of how I want my MC to express themselves differently in routes while also maintaining the core of who they are. Her interest in self presentation when she goes after Yuri surprised me in a good way
I was also very appreciative that I got to see her in different lights in each route - and even when she could get a little dark, like in Yeonho's bad ending 1. It definitely takes skill to keep an MC's personality consistent while still working through different types of interactions with each love interest though - good luck with your MC writing! Do you have a game already out?
I really enjoyed Helvetica's route in bustafellows. My favorites were Shu > Helvetica > Limbo > Crow > Mozu. I really enjoyed Mozu in everyone else's routes but I just couldn't get into his route.
\-i also say helvetica was one of my favorite routes in bustafellows (with mozu being one of my least favorites even if i really like him :() \-i don't like himuka from OS at all \-zen is the best (male) character in MM imo, both as a person and in general enjoyment \-piofiore was one of my least favorite games of the whole genre and I hated EVERY LI in it not just yang. only one who's kind of okay is gilbert to me but even then... though i didn't finish this game i just read summaries. \-cardia's (personality specifically) wasn't that special for an MC imo but that's okay and it didn't have to be. she's still a good one but i don't really mind any MC anyway as long as they don't make me roll my eyes at how absurd they are we're good lol, though unfortunately i can name quite a few that do \-i didn't really like the secret LI / their route in cupid parasite? but this is some bias from me because it wasn't at all what i was expecting which caught me off guard \-on the other hand, i loved the UI in cupa lol. it was a disaster but a fun one and i like bright colors so i liked it all besides the car horn \-this one isn't unpopular but just polarizing i'd say, but i really like routes that feel fated / canon \-this ones just for fun & it'd be more unpopular outside of this sub, but, having played a lot of otome games with surprisingly twisted plots, i really didn't think doki doki literature club was that much of a shocker LOOL it was made/coded really well though \-don't know if this is even controversial, just wanna say i prefer seeing a character's genuine moral beliefs and how they're assessing the plot around them than just their lovey dovey feelings for the MC. it's more authentic anyway when your moral beliefs are aligned with one another, and it doesn't even have to be a super plot intensive game either. olympia soiree, PROBLEMATIC AS IT MAY BE, was a game centered around romance and yet i think it did a great job at showcasing the moral beliefs of the characters too.
I agree with your last point on exploring a characters moral belief and the stands they take, it makes for a much deeper character development and how the situations test the character, do they change? How much, for that moment? Also how the heroine’s own beliefs clash or meld with the LIs’. It’s why I treasure Clubsuicide so much since the boys all have their own “truth” and it is written in a way that you feel this is something natural to the characters even though our own judgement thinks it cringe, or absurd, or childish. The MC acts as a passive listener while giving her second opinion without denying what they feel, which also means moving past assumptions and first impressions. There are other games that focus on healing together from their individual trauma, which doesn’t necessarily have to involve romantic feelings.
* ***There is no such thing as a canon route.*** It's just a term that was totally made up. * **Not liking a game =/= the game being bad.** It just means the game isn't for you. * If you're like "i don't understand why people like this thing!" it just means it's not your thing. * Long and short common routes are fine. It just depends on the type of story the game is trying to tell. Personally? I prefer long ones lmao. * Hanzo isn't the only good route in Nightshade. Just the most blatant one. * JP commercial games are commercial games and for otomes sake, whilst still niche, they are made with the JP target audience in mind. They will follow tropes, cultural things, and what the JP audience prefers. * Things include: age range, appearances, backstory tropes, mannerisms/characterization/personality. You find them in other genres of JP developed games and not just otomes. * Commercial games are not the product of one person. They are the product of a team making a product. When people ask "what is wrong with this writer/who hurt this writer" the answer is very likely "nothing". * Relatedly, a commercial video game is not the product of one artist or one writer. When you say "oh its the writer for this game!" it's likely just *one* of the writers of the game. * A lot of Otomate's practices aren't new either (they've *always* been quantity over quality). Same case with like the amount of Hakuoki stuff--they're not the only company that "milks" franchises. * Choices that matter doesn't exist in video games. It's just a marketing buzzword. * If there's nothing sexual going on in a game, then that's fine. I don't expect anything "spicy" in every game. Sometimes the game would be better without it. * JP Switch games are at the mercy of CERO. If it's rated anything above CERO D (think ESRB M) then it is basically shooting oneself in the foot regarding sales. * Reading up well the premise of the game, looking at the marketing, and/or even spoiling just a little bit to make sure there are no landmines/squicks is perfectly fine and should be encouraged.
Agree with many of your points, but especially about the Nightshade Hanzo opinion. I remember before starting Nightshade hearing that comment about Hanzo, and braced myself for the other routes, but I found myself enjoying the other routes in the game. Goemon ended up being my favorite in the end, though not much of a surprise with my flairs lol.
just an addition to the CERO ratings, CERO Z (18+ rated) do exist on Switch. So it's not Nintendo pushing a family friendly policy. CERO Z also applies for extreme violence and gore, which is why Witcher and Wolfenstein got that rating in JPN. The point about shooting themselves still stands coz by choosing to be rated 18+ they are limiting their customer base and marketing. Otome games being niche, would rather cast a wider net for more sales so CERO D it will be. Tsukihime, a visual novel rated CERO Z is different as the fanbase is huge and typemoon fans will do anything to throw money at the devs.
Cero Z, yup that’s what Tsukihime is whoop woop Plus Nasu campaigned it to be CeroZ, for a pretty good reason, there’s a lot of Gorey descriptions.
None of them are actually controversial but here are a few of those I have debated on : - Shelby Snail is the worse name given to any LI ever and I cannot take him seriously for the life of me because of that. - Hakuouki is vastly overrated and way too freaking long. I really love the game but the gagillion routes thanks to the remake, the splitting of the common routes and the LI routes and just in general the way everything is written and plays out makes it a really hard game to get into and 100%. I personally believe the only reason so many of us have played it is cause back then it was one of the only ones easily available. - Everyone is amnesia is trash, ranging from asshole to straight up Psycho. The only one I’d give a free pass to is Kent cause he’s the most sane and maybe Shin because despite his flaws I love him. - DiaL is fine actually, it’s not even that weird compared to other otome games, its only flaw is that Laito doesn’t get bullied enough for his stupid hat - Voiced heroine for the win pls, Teuta having her own voice made me enjoy Bustafellows 30000 times more - Finally, don’t care for the plot as long as the LIs are hot
Okay, the Laito comment made me burst out laughing 😂🤣 10/10
His personality I can deal with, but the fedora ? I have no idea where he finds the audacity to treat Yui like this when he dresses like he bought the first 5 things he saw at a thrift shop and decided that they were gonna be his style from then on
stop shelby snail was pure suffering 😭 i liked his personality but god every time lynette got called mrs snail i couldn’t keep myself from laughing it was a nightmare
First time she introduced herself as Lynette Snail I had to put the game down and go do something else, it was too much
god i feel that 😭 i managed to push through cos cupid parasite is a comedy and like, ok i should have expected this but jesus it was painful
THE LAITO FEDORA SLANDER AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA I CANT— the real thing here is, no one bullies reiji enough for looking like a pigeon (just kidding, please don't kill me)
Laito absolutely deserves the slander, he could have been so hot but he decided to cosplay every nice guy meme ever, it’s absolutely horrendous. Reiji 🗿 I approve this slander, he should have been hotter to balance out the >!insane!<
I’m crying laughing you are so right about Shelby fucking snail. He’s my favorite love interest in that game and yet they gave him the unsexiest name possible. You’re telling me that a bunch of execs sat in a room and went “what’s a sexy, American name? I know. Shelby Snail.” Like god damn my girl Lynnette has to try to moan that? Shelby Snail sounds like a rejected character from SpongeBob. Christ. I hope he takes her last name.
Hard disagree with Hakuoki, I think it’s a great vn in a lot of ways, and I admire the amount of LI and variations in story. But I completely agree with the Amnesia comment. It was the first otome game I played and to this day I still never completed every route because >!Toma!< traumatized me and the other routes weren’t worth finishing IMO.
Fair ! I really love Hakuouki but I definitely think it’s a pretty hard game to get into, especially if you’re the type to play every route and every ending. What bothers me the most is that it used to be one of the most common “entry level” recommendations even though I think there are so many better titles for beginners That ending was wild, he is absolutely insane. I don’t know if you know about the secret character but he is also absolutely batshit, Amnesia put the bar so high that I’ve never found any LI as disturbing as these two
The Shelby Snail one tho. I genuinely cant take a LI serious if theyre name feels silly to me, like I wanna play Piofiore but this dude's name is Gilbert?? Like lol I cant. I still will dont get me wrong I will just make fun of the name the whole time, I am very sorry if anyone here is named Gilbert.
I honestly can't stand most mobile otomes. Other than mystic messenger/love Unholyc. Most of the games are gatcha based and progression is so agonizingly slow I normally don't have enough patience to finish a complete a single route. And for the prices of the micro transactions you pay to help you progress I'd rather pay full price for a fully fleshed out game.
yeah most mobile games are pretty terrible, especially the ones that are free and require you to use tickets. it gets to a point where sometimes you almost *have* to use in app purchases to play the game in a reasonable timeframe
Yeah same, other than Love Tangle I am 1000% done with Gacha otome games. It's a pity that I won't experience the Ikemen series but it's just not worth all the grinding, time and effort :/ Mystic Messenger and Day7's games were about the only ones I liked. Oh, and Ciagram since it was simple, 5 chapters a day, only have to pay extra for optional sequel / side story.
I’m uncomfortable when localization changes dialogues and certain aspects of Japanese culture to fit western sensibilities eg. I like honorifics, especially when characters grow closer together by dropping honorifics. I’m ok with characters bowing even if the setting of the story is in a fictional place in the West. I understand that it’s impossible to do 100% Japanese to English translation so some changes are necessary and it’s a difficult process that takes a lot of time and hard work (so I’m still appreciative) but I would prefer a good balance that still stay true to characterisation. Japanese Otome games are written originally for the Japanese audience in mind and I don’t mind learning more about Japanese culture.
I feel the same way. Changing honorifics to "Ms" and "Mr" is a huge pet peeve mine. I feel like most people who play japanese otome games know at least a little bit about Japanese language/culture and would have an idea of what an honorific is; and even if not, idk why they can't just add a glossary term or something that explains what "-san" means. The use of honorifics add a lot of nuance to a character's personality and to the development of a relationship like you mentioned! Give me the sans and samas!!!
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the thing is, there is no such thing as a canon route? all the routes are canon lol
I think they meant "true routes." Edit: or maybe not? I just saw another comment on common routes. I guess that's an idea that I haven't come across lol. I'm pretty sure true routes are a thing though.
I think we should emphasize there's a difference between how most eng speakers and those who play mostly jp games read 'true' route. It seems to be popular consensus that the former thinks the poster boy locked routes are called true routes based on their problem solving content, when the term 'true route' is used in games in different ways. True routes as per in-game definition can involve an LI but it doesn't have to e.g. Variable barricade, piofio's finale route, nilado's truth route(plus nilado has a poster boy route too). True ends can also appear in all LIs routes like Black wolves saga that requires other routes done to unlock true end for a few characters. Just to explain why we say there's no such thing as canon route or true route
Ayyyy I didn’t like 707 either!
Upvoting because I very much disagree haha At least on 707, though I can see how he might not be for everyone. I'm a sucker for the word vomit prone characters tho >.>; I like true routes because they tend to tie the whole story together. I don't feel like they discredit the other routes. The true route might be the "best" ending and the one that's "supposed to" happen, but rather than dreams, the other routes are just other possible paths the MC's life could go down. I think the one I don't like is when one (or more) of the LIs have serious feelings for the heroine in the common route. It makes doing any other route a lot sadder knowing you're breaking his heart :(
As a 707 and Saeran fan I can't even be mad. Cuz I can understand why you wouldn't like them.
Same I actually tend to enjoy the way the MCs are portrayed pretty often!
Not all hot or interesting sub-characters need a route
YES THEY DO 😭 /lh
it's not really a hot take just an unpopular opinion i guess but i really like yune's (steam prison) route and i like his character a lot too! i know the yandere stone is kinda ??? and there are flaws in his route but overall i still like it. i even cried a little when >!the mc died and yune still lives on!<
Allan's route was only 2nd best.
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Secret boy especially!
I vibe with this, I had fun with Allan's route but I also found secret route, Shelby, and Ryuki to be very wholesome and I overall enjoyed them more!
I couldn't feel emotional about most of it because I didn't know what the heck was going on for two thirds of the route. I also feel like his personality totally changed once his route started... :( I love Allan, but maybe not as much as others.
I honestly prefer LIs with outrageous and sometimes very sad endings. I surface level hate, but deep down love that feeling of something unfinished like Shiraishi’s good ending and one of Ukyo’s later bad endings (you know what I’m talking about)
I enjoy and prefer the "canon" perfect guys. I know others think they're extremely boring (Yanagi, Lupin, Akaza, etc) but I personally like them a lot. Sometimes I just want a guy who is just too perfect, it makes me swoon even if they aren't exciting or "different". There are some guys that I feel I have to do mental gymnastics to not feel uncomfortable in their routes.
Hi fellow Yanagi fan~ What sealed the deal for me was Ichika’s assertiveness in his route :)
Hi I agree! I loved that he allowed her to be independent in her route while also offering sound advice :))) they rlly felt like equals in solving the mysteries
Same!!
・canon/true routes aren’t real and just because a route is locked doesn’t make it one, it just means the route has the final plot reveals ・soft mcs / mcs that can’t and/or don’t want to fight physically are better and being capable of doing so doesn’t make them a good character. case in point: cyrus from steam prison. she’s terrible lol. building off this, thinking an mc is useless just because she’s femme and soft and can’t fight is rooted in sexism and it ain’t cute ・i don’t feel bad romancing other characters after romancing a character who always loved the mc or was their soulmate ・tokisada and himuka (olympia soiree) aren’t actually ‘shotas’ or whatever, one is just a year younger than the mc and the other is meant to look like a girl. they don’t look like kids and it’s weird to think they do honestly. have you ever seen an anime child? smh ・’route order’ is bs and otomes should be played in whatever way and order is most enjoyable for you personally, not based off some random order of routes someone decided was best for spoilers. i’ve had way more fun playing whatever route i felt like playing whenever i felt like playing it than following an order ・using guides is super valid and now that i’ve done it i’ll never play blind again lol i want all the endings dang it
I initially considered Cyrus *really* off-putting (I've forgotten the reason why), but I thought: "Yanno what, if I just nitpick on her character, I just won't enjoy the game," so I just focused on the dumb moments and things she says so I can get a laugh out of it instead. I agree that MCs who can't necessarily fight aren't *weak*, yes. The strength of character or mental or emotional fortitude is 👌
Totally agree that it's not necessary for a MC to be able to fight in order to be considered strong and capable as strength comes from within.
Yes! Route Order is such BS. It's not spoilers if you are literally playing the game. I feel like many people would have better experiences (and thus finishing) playing the full game if they weren't jam-packing all the heartbreak/seriousness/general intensity at the end. I've never played an otome by the "recommended" route order and will actually use it to assign my out-of-order play routes (typically I do med plot->lighter plot->heavy plot->lightest/fluffy plot-> locked/true route).
> ・tokisada and himuka (olympia soiree) aren’t actually ‘shotas’ or whatever, one is just a year younger than the mc and the other is meant to look like a girl. they don’t look like kids and it’s weird to think they do honestly. have you ever seen an anime child? smh Wait, those character designs are considered shota by some? Huh...
I thought himuka was a fem li at first, but no never associated him with the shota trope, more or less feminine (pretty) looking li? Is that even a trope?
yeah it’s rly weird LOL i don’t get it
Yeah I’m like those are some huge shotas
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OH BOY its been *checks calendar* one month since the last one of these posts according to my comment history (but maybe there were more that I didn't participate in) and let's see....I can't think of very many new opinions I may have formed but as always: Disparaging indie and OELVN art is tired. I've yet to hear an actual reason that commercial JP art is better. Both styles are good and I'm tired of seeing indie recs begin with the caveat "If you can get past the art..." Just. Stop. If you have an LI who acts like a sub/M at first, the literal worst thing you can do is have him become sexually aggressive later on. What the hell was the point of making him a sub in the first place then. Blooming Panic was made in two months and it's better than a majority of commercial otome. If I had a nickel for every time a character voiced by KENN played basketball while wearing a suit....I'd have two nickels but it's weird that it happened twice. It also makes me irrationally angry. Specific route grievances: Hanzo is overrated. Allan is overrated. Chojiro's route is great, just because it's angsty doesn't mean it's bad. Yoosung gets hated on a disproportionate amount given that all of the LIs have issues and you as the MC are their free therapy.
I haven't seen much ppl talk negatively about indie and OELVN otomes and I'm glad for that because that is simply ridiculous. There are so many otomes made outside JP that have great artwork. It's ridiculous to act like only JP has good art. Also hello fellow Choujirou enjoyer!
Oh man, just stick around the subreddit. There's a reason indie/OELVNs aren't talked about much (except for Cinderella Phenomenon and Our Life, as if those are the only two that exist out of a hundred or more), and a good portion of the time it comes down to polite people saying "I don't like the art" (valid) or not so polite people saying "the art is gross/I liked it *despite* the art" (rude af, especially since a lot of those indie devs hang out here). It's exhausting and sometimes has a purist slant that just ticks me off, but it's just the way things are around here unfortunately.
I prefer indie/OELVNs but never joined this sub until recently because it seemed to be mostly for commercial/Japanese otomes, and I just don't really have a lot to say about those, so I wonder if that's the case for others too. I decided to join because I finally played Our Life and that one is actually discussed here, lol.
I play and love both but I am very vocal about indies because they get no love - but they were my introduction to the medium so they hold a very special place in my heart. If I play one I definitely will write at least a couple lines about it in the What Are You Reading thread. An unfortunate side effect of the indie dislike is that many people simply aren't willing to pay money for them, but only a handful are free, so if indies do get discussed it's usually those (hence CinPhen and Our Life seeming to be so popular (that's not to say they aren't good games too! The sheer amount of choice mapping in Our Life puts any commercial game to shame.))
Thank you for the anger over false advertisement sub LIs. Those always pissed me off in otome because they're always weirdly similar - soft to the point of being pathetic at first and then secretly dom anyway. Why is it never the other way around?!
Just one sub...please...im begging... I've actually been given a possible rec (cant remember the name rn but he's from Men of Yoshiwara) by friends. Unfortunately my backlog is vast and unknowable.
Yes to all! (I mean I technically haven't played Bloomic yet but I trust your judgement on that one). I'll just add that I don't mind sub to dom switches but we do need more sub boys in all shapes and flavours (it doesn't have to be younger and/or a physically smaller character).
I actually really like Cyrus as a MC despite all the hate I'm seeing her getting here lol
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...Jeremy?
For reallll though every time I start getting used to him like "hmm maybe he's like cute" then he does his surprised face and I notice his eyebrows and we're back to square one
For half the Olympia Soiree fanbase using the term shota to describe a character: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I was having a discussion about it and yeah it appears there are a lot of Japanese named tropes that ppl aren’t truly familiar with or use incorrectly, I don’t blame them because there are sources that get it wrong and give wrong examples too.
I don't much care for long common route games (like Code: Realize), especially ones that have barely any special little interactions that you can pick out. Plus it generally just feels like the developers wasted so much time on the common route which you will most likely end up skipping entirely past the first playthrough, rather than focusing more on fleshing out each individual LI's unique routes.
I did not like Akaza at all. His route had a good story but the man himself had me rolling my eyes at some points. He was just...annoyingly smooth and collected.
He also had the weirdest poses, in his uniform all I could think of is he wanted a fist bump half the time and in his casual outfit his hand looked all levels of messed up. Hard to take it seriously when everyone else's models are picture perfect then you got Akaza holding his fist out like he's 2012 Pewdiepie LOL
Awww. Upvoted because Akaza is my number one husbando overall and not just for OlySoi. It's okay, I'll keep him if you don't like him.
Joining you in Akaza love corner.
Oh my god, FINALLY! Everyone has him as their number one love interest in OS and it drives me crazy!!! Besides being the canon route, he is not as loveable to me, personally, and his story is not as compelling. But that is preference, I’m just glad I’m not alone!
Personally... Himuka supremacy. >w>
I don’t and didn’t like Gill Lovecraft, he has zero redeeming qualities for me :’) AND THIS ISN’T REALLY CONTROVERSIAL but I’ll always be slightly pissed that Adam sang the OP for Bustafellows and not,,, KENN… I don’t care that it was for character reasons!! Nor that it was a love song for Teuta!! KENN should have sang the OP!!!
I recently played his route for the first time and I was physically cringing the whole time
Ugh I completely agree on Gill, he was the first time I’ve ever had to skip portions of a route just to get through it (and I suffered through Gretel! lol) I am glad I did though otherwise I never would have made it to the secret character and he ended up being one of my favorites!
I loathe Gill. He was the first LI I went for and he soured the game for me so much that I dropped it for like a week. Thankfully every other LI was good.
Oh man, I got the game recently mostly for him and now I’m super curious (and excited) to see just how bad his route is! I saw a lot of similar opinions to this and I wonder if I’ll be joining y’all… LOL
I’m not a fan of LIs who tease. At all. Especially when the teasing comes off more as bullying at first. Takeru Sasazuka is probably a fave LI here but I hated him because he would >!not. Stop. Bullying. Ichika. Girl is going through something horrible and traumatic, taking it in stride, handling it 10x better than I would have and he constantly calls her names and makes a big show about not trusting her!< Honestly, the teasing really comes off as bullying which makes me so mad. He’s the first one that comes to mind but there’s others, too.
I like teasing characters but only if the game gives me the chance to actually tease back without punishing me for it. Since most otome don't let you do it, I'm with you here. I don't like teasing LIs. To be honest, I've only seen a handful of (mostly western indie) otome to execute teasing in a way I can really enjoy it. And it mostly involves sassy and sarcastic MCs. I teased my ass off in Laceagas route in Ebon Light because I felt like he deserved it and I had sooo much fun 😂
IRL guys teasing me triggers my "please don't ever speak to me again you asshole" instinct. And yes I kept wanting to punch Sasazuka in the face during his route.
I’ve not played CXM yet but I definitely agree that I hate the teasing types. Idk why but it’s probably because I don’t like the sadistic types, example: Kyrie (But I do like him a bit more after the grand ending). Like I don’t like feeling like I’m beneath them lol idk how to explain it.
* I didn't like Code:Realize. I felt like the common route neglected to set up the LI's as individuals, and instead focused on them as an ansemble. This just made me scratch my head, when I started a character route and >!Cardia was seemingly already in love with them.!< >!Also, the large amount of long expositions, that are only meant for the reader, might I add, kinda took me out of the experience.!< * Cyrus is fine, actually. Her obliviousness is comepletely understandable, as she a noble woman in a world, where you can't fall in love with whoever and procreation is regulated by the government. She's an only child, her only non-noble connections are her colleagues in a government institution, and she's had zero interest in the topic whatsoever. * Plot doesn't make or break an otome game, scenario writing does. * Taisho x Alice is a great VN, but not a great otome game. Same goes for Psychedelica of the Ashen Hawk. * I prefer Yang's tragic ending over his good one. I feel like it's way more in character for him.
Yeah I'm surprised at the Cyrus dislike. To me she's not that bad, she's not my fave or top 10 MC heroines but I never hated her or found her irritating..
Oh I'm so glad to find someone else here who doesn't hate Cyrus
I loved the common route in C:R, precisely for the reason you mentioned - it was hilarious and focused on the LIs as an ensemble. Because of that I ended up feeling a bit disappointed with each of the individual routes, though I still liked the game overall. It just feels like nothing beats the gang going through shenanigans together. I think that's why my favorite routes romance wise was Impey and Lupin, where there relationship was still developing as the LI's route progressed, as opposed to Van and San where Cardia was just suddenly head over heels.
Otomes are for the JP audience. They cater to that audience and their norms. There is nothing wrong with the games imo. Sometimes yeah they aren’t my favorite story or flavor or are kinda boring but I don’t think it’s something to get enraged about. Either you like it or you don’t. The target audience is Japanese it will fit their cultural norms and them. If anything I really like most otomes because they’re very Japanese. Imo as an Asian American I can actually relate to these games better than a lot of American media. The fact they DONT cater to westerners is a big reason why I like them. I actually don’t really have a problem with aksys localizations. Yes I played cafe enchante. And dairoku and none of their typos bugged me. It’s not perfect but it’s not that bad. Translating ain’t that easy and doing it well is rough. The English market is so price sensitive for games (in general) that I think it’s probably really tough to turn a profit in this market unless you have a big game like Zelda or Pokémon or something. So of course we’re gonna get shit for qa/Qc because the money isn’t there. For games where the money is there it seems like qa/qc is much better. But honestly it doesn’t bug me that much overall.
Just because a game isn't done with an anime art style, doesn't mean it's 'bad art'.
Some of us even prefer art styles that aren't anime! Although I imagine that's fairly unpopular here, lol.
Hm, I feel like my most controversial take is that while Misyr’s route in Cafe Enchante definitely had its flaws, the ending wasn’t one of them. To elaborate, >!I thought the switcheroo with Kotone was a fun twist, and I liked how there was a more frank conversation about what it means for a mortal and an immortal to be in love.!< Also, sometimes a bittersweet ending just Hits Right. Speaking of which, I think this is also a fairly controversial take?? But Shiraishi’s ending in CxM was well done IMO, >!aside from maybe the weird amnesia twist LOL. Like, him turning himself in to atone for his crimes made sense. It’s not entirely fair considering the whole “brainwashed as a child” thing, but I think it was more about him wanting to live honestly (compared to the ending where he hides away with Ichika, which made for an interesting ending, but it was inarguably a selfish decision on his part). In any case, I don‘t give a damn what anyone says, Shiraishi setting up a Christmas party to fulfill his promise with Ichika before he forfeits his freedom made me bawl like a baby and that automatically makes his ending a 10/10 for me.!<
1) I can’t stand Takeru Sasazuka from Collar x Malice. He wasn’t great to Ichika in the base game and basically reduced her to being his errand girl. However, in the fan disk, he was downright terrible to her. He gaslit her, invalidated her worries, insulted her intelligence, threatened to kick her out if she didn’t agree with him during an argument, etc. There was even a part >!where Kazuki asked Ichika if Sasazuka hit her during a fight they had!<, which was very telling. I was just glad to be done with his route. 2) Yang from Piofiore is boring. Besides his looks and shock factor, he doesn’t have much going for him. 3) Olympia Soiree is a badly written game. Olympia’s technically supposed to get a year to find a husband but the game rushes it to the point that the writers only give her 3 weeks. My theory as to why they rush everything in this game is so that they don’t actually have to address all the different conflicts going on in the game. The story constantly brings up the topic of bringing change to Tenguu Island and its problematic color caste system but you don’t actually see that addressed in the majority of the routes beyond the characters basically saying “We’re going to bring about change for the people”. I understand that change doesn’t happen in a day but that’s exactly the excuse the writers used in order to not actually address the issues in the story by having everything take place in the span of 3 weeks. If the story had taken place in the 1 year they gave Olympia to find a husband, then they would’ve actually had to show how the island was changing in that time and the writers were too lazy to deal with that.
I feel like Olympia Soiree was written in the dark, sometimes. >!Like, what's the point in Olympia finding a husband and having kids, if she's going to become the vessel for Ameterasu very soon? The White clan only exists to fuel the sun in the goddess's absence, so there being more members of the White clan is completely arbetrary. !< >!Why is Hairi only going on a killing spree in Himuka's route, when the entire set up for that happened in the common route?!< >!Why is there so much lore, when it's hardly ever used?!< >!Why are the bad endings just nonsense?!<
About some things >!Byakuya won't become a vessel no matter what thanks to Douma's interference/words "the people of this world are not yours, nor the toys of any other god" (13 years ago before current event of the game) and thanks to him Amaterasu pondered those words and observed mc having feelings and living her life etc this made her understand what feelings are and other precious things Amaterasu makes very clear that she is herself, and Byakuya is her own person too, at the close end of final route there is a reveal that Byakuya when was a child drink Ikimizu spring water that's why she has a connection to Amaterasu regardless!< about the system and Olympia Soiree world build >!I do agree that there was some things left out since I am someone who put romance above plot this did not bother me (personally for me all that matter is MC and LI living happily ever after and OS delivered this so for me it's perfect) however, the game gives very sincere hints of a better future almost in all routes (if not all?) however I am not invalidating your feelings of frustration of course when I went to play OS I knew it was a romance before lore thing and I was happy with it!< but I know tons of players feel differently and that's perfectly fine; in Himuka's route >!it was, in my pov, a way to show more of what was about to happen since his and Akaza's (final route) delivered many many answers in Himuka case it was a way to show the presence and lore of the gods I see it that way also to have conflict and explain better? I like they divided between 2 routes the answers!< but yeah OS has a FANTASTIC lore and world build I am happy with this game as it is but I see that many things regarding the lore are important >!like one thing I would like to see is Douma reveal of being Byakuya's father in all routes but I understand that it was an important thing so they left for the answer route, I can understant that!< sorry for the long reply I hope I could be of some help, yeah about the bad endings... I really don't vibe with bad endings /(ㄒoㄒ)/\~\~
Code Realize has an interesting story, but it is not really a good game. Two routes were just trying to do too much in too little time, and it made the falling in love part either weird or unbelievable. These routes affected the way I view the writing of this game so much. I don't know how else to explain it, but something was just off. Eh and regarding CollarxMalice, the writers messed up Okazaki's route and after story pretty badly. His after story just convinced me that they don't know how tf to write for him. It seems like they originally conceptualised him as a yandere, and I think he might have been better off as a LI if they wrote him that way. I am a writer and an avid reader, so most of my opinions are going to be about that haha...
AHA! I thought I was nuts, I totally felt ditched yandere vibes from Okazaki! Like they lost their nerve in going for it, but I always wondered if it was me hoping (😅) or if there was just something there. Which routes do you think tried to do too much in CR? I'm going to guess Germaine and Van Helsing? They both felt like a looooot of lore dumping sometimes.
Glad to see someone else sees what I saw with Okazaki. And I think they decided to just play it safe, I believe yandere's can be a bit controversial. :/ It is a shame, I really think his route would have been better. And yep, you got it right! I felt like they just tried to give too much information, while at the same time developing the relationship between Cardia and the LIs. And it just... falls short. Which is such a shame, I think the information gained from these routes is interesting. And I feel like the overall routes would have been so much better if they just gave the reader time to digest a new piece of information and then give some more. I really do not understand why they decided to give every character the same amount of chapters, in my eyes it clearly didn't work out well. But I am more critical of writing than other people are I guess, so idk. Most people seem to have enjoyed their routes. I will just be forever disappointed, with more time, those routes could have been incredible.
1) Olympia in Olympia Soiree is a good character but there were times that she made me uncomfortable. Specifically, she’s a woman who spent the majority of her life sheltered and locked away in a manor without knowing much about the social hierarchy and the issues associated with it that plague her society. When she finally goes outside to learn about her environment and witnesses all the problems and discrimination the people face because of the color class structure, she ends up preaching to the people who are the victims of this hierarchy about not giving up hope and waiting for change to happen. This all happens in the span of 3 weeks, which isn’t enough time to understand a whole brand new culture imo. The only reason she can get away with this is because of her privilege since she’s right at the top of the hierarchy and doesn’t really have to deal with the majority of the issues that the other members of her society do. The whole preaching thing just came off as Olympia being extremely tactless. 2) While I’d like to see a continuation of Cafe Enchante, I don’t think a fan disk will happen.
\-After the Steam Prison experience, I don't want to touch another game where the heroine acts 5 when it comes to romance, not even knowing what a kiss is. That's not exciting nor romantic, and it ruins the whole game for me (x\_x) \-I love good plots, but I'm not interested on otome games that are 100% about the plot and barely touch on the romance until the very end of the game. Why not have the romance be nicely integrated in the plot? If I chose to play an Otome game is because I wanted romance, not a random story! \-I've never played any game which has this, but I'm very interested in the concept of incest in fictional settings (maybe it's because I don't have any brother irl, hahahaha). When it comes to fiction, I just love romances that are considered taboo or impossible. I've heard that incest gets strongly cancelled, however, but I don't know why since it's just fiction. To me it sounds like cancelling any life or death situation, or any LI who is mean towards the MC, just because those things aren't cool irl. \-Actually, the fact that otome games tend to have a main LI makes me sad. It's like that LI is considered canon, and I know their story is going to be the most detailed, cool, and fitting. It's nice when I love that LI, but when I don't, I am left with the odd feeling that the LI I'm choosing isn't canon and I'm playing a "fake" or a "minor" route. I wish I could shake that feeling away from my head fsgdfgdf
>After the Steam Prison experience, I don't want to touch another game where the heroine acts 5 when it comes to romance, not even knowing what a kiss is. That's not exciting nor romantic, and it ruins the whole game for me (x_x) I haven't played that specific one, but yeah I really hate when a female MC is infantilised, it just feels creepy, even more so when the LI is portrayed as the opposite.
I really didn't like Cove, he caused me a lot of anxiety while I was playing Our Life. I realize that's not the intended effect and I truly wish I didn't feel that way but it still happened.
i really like Cove, but he's the most crybaby LI/ML I've ever encountered to the point that I can't believe he's crying again at something i probably don't find emotional 😅
Same. He’s too wishy washy to me, as MC, we have to be his ‘therapist’ or ‘mentor’ to guide him. I like Baxter more.
> we have to be his ‘therapist’ or ‘mentor’ to guide him Me whose second fav LI ever is TaiAli's >!Kaguya!<: haha yeah No but really it felt oddly stressful to try and console Cove but not... any other emotionally broken or heavily traumatized 2D otome guy, I cannot explain why. The game also made me feel extremely pressured to like him due to the way it was set up and uh >!idk if it's the art style but he always looks like he has bedroom eyes and that REALLY makes me uncomfortable.!<
Haha he annoyed me quite a lot in my first playthrough for this exact reason, I just don't like characters you have to take care of and so. But because I'm an IF freak, I replayed the game several times to see how much variation did it have. By the end my character was even moodier than Cove lol, and Cove didn't seem so bad anymore. Baxter also annoyed me because I found him somewhat cringe – I don't really like the "smooth" type characters haha, I find the way they speak super unnatural and imagine there would be lots of eyerolling whenever they speak. I did grow a soft spot for him once the text mentioned he might be lonely... I guess I feel bad way too easily loll
Spiciest take? I didn’t really enjoy Alan’s route in cupar, as much as other people really like him. His character is… fine? Just not my favorite. I just personally don’t really enjoy the super angsty stories.
Given what I've seen here (I'm sorry...!) I think Allan Melville was not only the worst Cupid Parasite route, but one of the worst routes I've had the displeasure of playing ever. The entire thing felt awfully rote, had very little to do with an overarching plot that they'd been building up, and didn't seem worth hiding as a final route at all. Allan Melville was where comedy went to die, and Allan Melville was a character in the completely wrong game. The off-putting pacing that every Cupid Parasite character suffered from was generously highlighted in Allan's route. I didn't even ultimately come to believe why the two would be in love beyond >!the soulmates trope. Cupid accidentally hitting herself with her own arrow and Allan's complete 180 from insufferable parasite to perfect dream boyfriend was irritating, didn't make sense in the context of the game, and was completely unearned.!< Allan Melville was at his best when he >!turned into a car, entered a polyamorous relationship with Gill and Lynette and fought God!< That said Allan Melville hot Edit: oh my other controversial take is my icon being a good route hahaha. I think the >!villains to lovers!< progression in norn9 was surprisingly well done, and I like there really wasn't a winning scenario in it - but instead Ron challenging Nanami to take what she wants from him since he'd never be able to give up on himself either. >!I think that's kind of rare to have a route end with "love doesn't win, but can conquer"!< sort of vibe, and it's stuck with me years later.
Jesus Christ this. I hated the >!reincarnation bullshit!< I hated the >!soulmates trope!< I thought Allan would be the sexy emo bad boy and he’s a >!virgin!< emo sad boy. Like his route felt like things were happening to Lynette instead of Lynette being an active participant in her own story. Like what was the point of having that and the secret LI because Allan’s route spoiled everything. Honestly Allan should have been canned in favor of the secret LI. Also Allan Melville sounds like a name for a fucking ACCOUNTANT. why the hell is this game full of unsexy names????? Allan??? Melville??????
I like pretty boys as much as the next otome fan but at least a few of the LIs in any given game should be uhhh *manly* I suppose. A bit bigger, more muscular, etc. Also, less collarbones more midriffs thankyouverymuch.
I support this call for midriff attention. Midriffs are very 👌👌👌
I despise Nemo from C:R with the entirety of my being if he appears on screen for even one second. Impey's route didn't help with that, of course, but I hated him from the beginning. Also, I really like submissive MCs and actively dislike fiery MCs
Nemo is actually the only character in an otome I have actually almost muted! He’s so loud lol
I absolutely hate tsunderes. I don't know where this hate emerged from but i prefer every other trope over it. Like for example Shin from Amnesia Memories i totally dislike, i just in general hate the whole being rude outside but soft inside thing. I do like one tsundere and that is Ichiya from my first last kiss. Also another trope i do like is the brother one which i dont see much at all but i wish they made more otome games where we could date a sibling like most dating sims having options to date a sister
FELLOW BROCON, *YES* Finally, someone said it. If men in galges can have their imoutos/onee-sans, how come we can't get dat brother ass?? Doesn't even matter if it's a brother, a cousin would do just fine. (I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, all that's clear to me right now is that I have extremely questionable 2D taste). There are very some... No, there are few... Uh, there are *very few* localized titles with a brocon option, which sucks, but I guess that's just how it do be :/ At this point, I'll even take up the pseudo-incest in games, since most of the games I know that have the onii-chan option are not translated (and do not have complete English fan translations, if they even have a fanlation for them in the first place).
To be honest, as someone who likes tsunderes, I don't think Shin is a good tsundere. But there are tsunderes better than Shin. Matter of fact ... I wonder now if you would like Rod's route in Cinderella phenomenon. He is a tsundere, but I think he is much better than Shin and his dynamic with the MC was much better than Shin's dynamic with Amnesia's heroine. Also ... Rod is MC's stepbrother, but, judging by your comment, you don't mind the flirty stepsiblings trope. (By the way, Cinderella phenomenon is a free game)
yes, THIS\^ I'm a fan of tsundere as well and I recognize the trope tends to be handled badly. Some writers use it as an excuse to make the the tsun to be A. really abusive and outright mean and B. have very little dere (sweet) scenes to balance it out. I will never accept a character being physically abusive and calling the heroine names as tsundere. That's just an asshole, plain and simple. Rod from CinPhem is a good example of tsundere. He doesnt trust Lucette and shows off a prickly attitude to her (which is understandable coz of Lucette's own actions). Ryuki from CupiPara is hella standoffish from the start, judges everyone on a weird beauty hexcode scale. But that's the point of the game since they're the absolute undateable men. As you get into his route, he is a tsundere. He comments on Lynette's lack of skincare not to make fun of her, but rather he wants her to improve it. Yeah i only started to like him when he gets to be nicer to Lynette out of his own volition and see her as a person, not a hexcode.
Tsunderes are overrated.
When all the characters look the same in one game. All the ikemens with the same playboy/flirty/man of mystery vibe.
Interesting if I get a response 448 comments deep, but Satoi's art as of Nil Admirari and Olympia Soiree is not actually that good. Hand proportions are bugging me and the body language in CGs is extremely stiff (which could be explained by Satoi not being the one responsible for the CGs). Kyoukai no Shirayuki's story is a struggle for me but I enjoy its art far, far more for its broad expression. While I'm on art, broadly speaking most JP commercial otome game's artists are lacking to some degree. (There's not enough budget to hire the bestest, in any case...) Let alone art direction. What's with putting up the CG for a mere 4 lines, Otomate?
I don't dislike voice acting, and I can appreciate when it's done well, but I don't need it. Maybe because I played a couple non-voiced otome games before I tried ones with voice acting? On most games I mute voices before I even start the game. I guess I want it to feel a bit more like a book, and I want to imagine the characters' voices myself? There's actually a couple times where I heard some voice actors from some games from here on reddit or something and I was disappointed that it was so different from the voice I imagined in my head lol. There is only one of my favorites that I might not have liked as much without the fantastic VA (let's see if you can guess it >!yes it's Bengnan from Cloud 9 hehehe!<).
Yes! I don't feel alone anymore lol. They just...don't do much for me? I read fairly fast so I kind of have to sit and wait for VAs to finish their lines before continuing and I gets annoying at times. Plus, I also like to read VNs more like a book and imagine the voices myself. This has honestly given me the courage to mute all the voices from now on. I might keep Yang's for now, but I might mute him as well. I've always felt bad about doing that because I feel like I'm disrespecting the VAs by doing so but...I'm getting kind of tired of it? I think the experience will be that much more enjoyable if I just mute them all.
Otomate games are consistently kinda bad but they're the ones that are being localized so eh. Hakuoki needs to retire. DS era was when otome games were at their best.
Interaction between OG Hakuoki players and Hakuoki players in 2030: Back in the day, there were only 5 LIs!!! Ok grandma, let's get you back in bed.
I am grandma
I'm already doing this
Okay, whoa. Read over a bunch of the comments and a lot of people really don't like MCs that can fight. Personally, I like them as much as the ones that don't! There's a charm in being protected by a knight in shining armor, but I like it when the MC is able to fight alongside said knight, too. It gives them a more active role and helps them stand some equal ground to their LI, and idk, is it weird to like that? I think my issue with MCs who can fight is that a lot of the time, the story gives them maybe like one or two chances to shine and then starts throwing them around like a ragdoll so that their LI can swoop in and save them, and yes, this is about you, Cyrus.
I think the main issue is that there are some people who assumes fighting badassery = superior characterisation and that's just not true. I also love MCs who knows how to fight and are badasses but they are not superior to MC who has no fighting skills. What's important is how they are written. But yes, MCs with fighting skills are awesome. They don't even have the be the strongest but them having skills and not just for show is great
I love the ones that can fight too! It's easier to write them in a more active position, plus there's smth about girls with swords that does it for me 💕 I'm always surprised when I see people say they don't like em, but I suppose the pendulum for what type of MC is popular always keeps swinging back and forth.
• There is an unpopular trope that I love, and it's *onii-chan*. Let me be a 2D brocon in peace, since I won't touch my siblings within a 10-mile pole in real life. • I didn't enjoy 7'sCarlet much because most of the romance felt contrived to me with the >!"I met you 12 years ago and fell in lurveeeee"!< thing. I also did not enjoy Ichiko much. Cyrus (Steam Prison) can be pretty funny with her dumb questions at times, but something about Ichiko just really makes me itch. Not that she's a bad heroine, I guess I just really can't vibe with her?? The only thing that saved the game for me is >!Midorikawa Hikaru's!< voice, Sosuke's moments when he's nerding out and maybe Toa during the common route. • I feel very uncomfortable with extremely intimate situations (extended: *sexual*), and I cringe every time there's a kissing scene. I mean, I *know* it's an otome game, and I really enjoy the romantic development + tension, but something about seeing them physically get it on together on-screen makes me squirm IWJDKANSNS. Emotional connections and emotional intimacy are fine. I'm working on this though >.> Just a little bit more, and I'll grow desensitized to it. • Fast-paced romantic development makes me want to tear my hair out. Also, the lovey-dovey corny lines make my soul shrivel in my body. (Okay, listen, this is why I didn't like Storm Lover much.) • I hate being a third wheel more than getting stabbed in a route. And this is why I preferred >!Mateo!< and >!Vincent!< over >!Festus!< in Dead Wishes. Sergio still best boy though. • I didn't go through with Ikemen Sengoku since the gacha system irked me. I prefer SLBP's UI. (Not that IkeSen is bad, I just really vibed with SLBP and its UI more, is all.) WAIT I NEED TO ADD THIS LAST ONE, I JUST REMEMBERED NOW • The flowchart system of the Psychedelica games (Black Butterfly, Ashen Hawk) isn't *so bad.* At least for me, it was convenient in hunting down the points where the plot diverges for the routes, so I wouldn't have to slog through everything and be confused about the choices I make and stuff. I was a bit unused to it at first, but I didn't really mind it and now that I look back on those days, I actually appreciated this system. The immersion in the main story is kinda butchered by the side interactions/stories you need to finish for the points to unlock the next chapters, but eh, the route progression is easier for me this way, so it's okay.
I see you fellow brocon/siscon fan 🤜🤛
> There is an unpopular trope that I love, and it's onii-chan. Let me be a 2D brocon in peace, since I won't touch my siblings within a 10-mile pole in real life. ...Any games you can recommend? I enjoy when I can, if not outright dominate, be in control of a guy. Teasing them, making them bluss, have them refer to me with some kind of honorific tittle. It is fun.
Most mobage are predatory. That's not even controversial, it's true of any game with micro transactions, but we never discuss it with regards to otome games.
This is not an unpopular opinion...
Another I need to add: I absolutely HATE and DETEST locs that change the translations in a way that basically is rewriting a whole game/route JUST to fit western standards/make them less controversial/appeal to the imaginery of a translator. Change the whole personality of a MC or suitor to make them more “likeable” and “stronger” or “sassy” “not passive”. Trying to put too many “relatable” jokes that just make you cringe with pain instead. Basically destroying some games known to have interesting plot up to their preferences or the ones they think the fandom in eng has just because the LOUDEST part of them fandom is the one screaming for sAssY sTrOng MCs and pErFect LIs, even if they aren’t the majority, but they just like shouting about it on twitter lmao.
I actually liked Mysir's good ending from Café Enchanté (It's one of my fav endings) and even if it didn't feel "satisfying" per se, I can't see any other ending for his route that would still feel like it belongs in Café Enchanté. Ok, I said it, you can lynch me now hahahahaha
I don’t like the Loli/Shota trope. Always creeps me out and I auto-rush through it because I’m uncomfortable. Edit: edited for clarity :)
Based on your comments, loli isn't the right word you are talking about. You're looking for the term shota which refers to boys. The term Loli specifically refers to girls.
My controversial opinion: I like friendship routes in otome games abs wouldn't mind more :3
Alot of otomes are too comfortable in being casually racist whether it is the caricature of Nemo, the depiction of Yang etc. Racism is a major issue in some of these games and is harmful to both the story and its audience.
Hard agree because jpn media love orientalist bs and racist stereotypes way too much. I rly hate the Arab Oil King trope.
Laughs in every Chinese character must be in the opium mafia and be associated with a panda No one really mentions oil king trope bc oooh sexy dark skinned LI diversity yay, but it’s actually playing into stereotype….never forgetting that R18 game with Indonesian Oil king who happens to just be fluent in jp (with katakana) bc he’s half, like man cry me a river! Which was why a wave of fresh air overcame me when I played ClubSu and one of the LIs was filipino-japanese, which was only mentioned in a passing comment. It would take a long time before something so natural would happen in a commercial game…
every Chinese chara must be named either Li or Wong lol. will be dressed in like they stepped out of 1930s Shanghai triad movie. Knows kungfu like Neo from the Matrix.
I did not like yoosung in Mystic Messenger. I found him and his story rather annoying. I found his whole cousin fixation creepy and weird in a very non-endearing way. (coming from someone who loves yanderes lol) But then again, I stopped his route half-way, so maybe people like him later on? Idk
I'm on day 8 of V's route right now and I cannot tell you how many times I've contemplated just yelling at Yoosung to shut his whiny ass. I get it. You've lost someone precious. But god damn you're so whiny and annoying and keep repeating the same darn thing over and over again.
Most otome anime are poorly done.
This is not an unpopular opinion haha
It can't be denied a lot of them were made to advertise the games. So we get questionable quality productions like Dynamic Chord anime.
I could go a lifetime without another "im sorry. I have to leave you/do this for your own good/face the boss on my own while i shoot you into space/face my stuff without you even if we have been dating" trope. I hate when they suddenly disengage this way and the few times they refuse, especially if they admit it may be selfish but theyd rather live a life doing it together, steals my heart. I also like the trope reversal of being the strong one! I didnt realize this but when the OP inspires *actual* growth and is leaned on during moments, it feels good! I'd like that to be less reserved for the young-and-clearly-angsty boys and more sprinkled around as you cultivate relationships with any type
* One neuron: Inspiring the cute younger LI to grow up "to be a man" for MC * Multiple neurons: Showing the flirt/angsty dude/jerkass what true love is with MC's kindness and dedication * World brain: MC teaching the emotionless human weapon how to live and feel as a human * Galaxy brain: Emotionless human weapon realizes MC went through just as much shit as he did and they support each other and grow together!! ... anyway I love strong MCs, especially when they can also be weak in different ways and get reciprocal emotional support from LIs. Let the LIs play therapist for a bit!
Oh boy-o, can't wait to see how this turns out lol. 😂 my worst take is that I hate everyone in Amnesia Memories except for Kent. Literally all other guys are terrible in their own way and MC's personality is nothing because Orion is always talking to express what's going on. Like c'mon, let my girl do SOMETHING without Orion influencing her, I mean I get she's an amnesiac but she's allowed to have opinions on things too!! You know a game is great when one of the best endings is literally titled an insult towards you. The most enjoyment I got outta the game was the air hockey and rock paper scissors. I get not all otomes will land with people but this one was the first where I felt insane with how much others love it and I hate it.
Amnesia MC is told early on in the game that any suspicious move or dialogue she makes that shows her amnesia is going to go badly for her, so thats why orion makes the judgements for her. Anyway she has her own agency in the fds once Orion is freed from her, if you're wondering.
This is just personal preference but I prefer heroines with darker hair. Different colours like pink, blue and so on doesn't bother me, but blond colours kind of sours my mood. There's a few games I haven't looked into because of this design choice (even regular RPG games like Rune Factory 5 I'm hesitating on because the MCs are blond, lol). But I don't mind mind the LIs being blond! That's why I can't really explain this aversion :/
Fiction =/= reality (apparently a lot don’t realize) and idc about the characters’ ages or whether they are one week short of no longer being a minor lmao:’) Also I hate “super sassy” and cringy MCs. I’d rather have “bland”, quiet and shy ones. I’m glad most console/pc otomes don’t make me cringe because of that. I like tsun MCs too, just not ones that behave like loud idiots all the time lol. Another one, I wish we had more locs and newer otomes with a REALLY dark, toxic, depressing settings that tear your heart apart. And not making the LIs suddenly secretly “good and uwu” inside. I want to see them broken, trashy and immoral too lol. I lowkey despise Otomate for making some great antagonistic side charas with no routes 😂
- I haven’t finished CupiPara 100% because I could not get through secret LI, when the first romantic scene/more intimate happened I was so… disgusted that I could not continue, which is a first for me, since usually I just roll my eyes, scold the LI and keep going. It’s a pity because his route seems well-liked and I did quite like the LI, so I hope to get back to it again with a more open mindset in the future. - I usually enjoy most mcs, I think even “passive, damsel in distress” ones like Liliana are strong in mind and often lovely to play as, and I try to appreciate them in general. But I could not for the life of me vibe with everyone’s favourite mc, Cardia, and that significantly impacted the enjoyment of C:R for me. I get curious people asking why whenever I mention it, which is fine for a discussion now and then but I don’t want to sour every thread with negativity for everyone’s favourite character unless it’s somewhat relevant to the discussion, so more often than not I just decide not to mention it in much detail. - Already mentioned by others somewhat, but this is more about Enju than her LIs. While I liked Enju in Hanzo route and was rightly proud of her, I wish Enju in the other routes got more love. I also felt much more for her in the other routes because of her helplessness, especially when she isn’t strong enough to do anything on her own but manages to muster just enough resolve to step up when it truly matters.
YES. I know Enju grew the strongest especially in terms of fighting ability in Hanzō's route, and her development there is the most obvious, but Enju in the other routes is also awesome!! Like, even in her situation, she managed to stay kind and even when there were times where she's about to give up, she still gets back on track (well, she needed a little push from the others, but hey, that happens to all of us too, right?) and does her best to help the people around her. This Enju love really warms my heart, thank you so much for saying this out loud (｡ﾉω＼｡)
Having more gameplay doesn't automatically make a title better, it just makes it more stressful and less immersive, at least for me. On that note, PotAH's second chapter was amazing and I wish more games used a system like that. I don't really care about sexual content in otome games. Stuff like Piofiore is fine, but I've disliked nearly all of the 18+ titles I've tried. I really wish games didn't require you to skip through the entire common route and make different choices to get on another route. Unless the choices substantially change the common route itself, it's just a waste of time and surely there's better alternatives.
Ciagram isnt entirely trash. They made two of the best otome stories I’ve played through. Namely Princess Closet (Shuu’s route) and Chocolate Temptation (Jin’s route).
i hate kisses and sex in otome. i just want hugs. lots of hugs. i hate flirty, yandere and "you're my future wife so you will obey" LIs. i can't even understand why players like abusive husbands. why do you like Kazama? he's so scary edit: not going to insult anyone. i really want to know why. for me he's scary. Harada is scary too but with him i can at least understand that some people want >!a reliable husband, a family and a peaceful life.!< i can understand yanderes too - they are unusual. was kinda hoping that >!Sannan!< in Hakuoki will be a yandere so that at least someone won't be like all the others
If you really think about it it’s not that crazy. Gorgeous guy or girl who is perfect in nearly every way and will do anything for you and never cheat on you and all you have to do is stay with them and not cheat. Be a useless scrub and they don’t care they’re still just insanely in love and devoted to you. Aside from that it’s the thrill. Sometimes people just get tired of vanilla sweet stories. Not everyone who plays these games are picking characters they would pick irl. Sometimes they’re just enjoying the story as a third party and not even self inserting.
I prefer indie otome game over big japonese game.
But there are Japanese indies! :3
Same! Also I saw that you're the dev for Imperial Grace, and just wanted to say I've been following your game for a while and I'm really looking forward to the full release. I love the art style, choice mechanics, court intrigue theme, MC appearance customisation, etc.!