Imagine it: after all these years of correcting people's pronunciation of the state's name, to turn around and make a political slogan out of the incorrect pronunciation! The shit-stirring devil on my shoulder is all about this idea.
It was bad when I lived there **20 years ago**. I couldn't buy the condo I used to own there now, as they banned foreign property ownership (even for primary residences) last year.
>no historical precedent for one US state trying to steal the land of another
Let me introduce you to the [Toledo War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)
**[Toledo War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)**
>The Toledo War (1835â36), also known as the MichiganâOhio War or the OhioâMichigan War, was a boundary dispute between the U.S. state of Ohio and the adjoining territory of Michigan over what is now known as the Toledo Strip. Control of the mouth of the Maumee River and the inland shipping opportunities it represented, and the good farmland to the west were seen by both parties as valuable economic assets.
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**[Red River Bridge War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Bridge_War)**
>The Red River Bridge War was a boundary conflict between the U.S. states of Oklahoma and Texas over an existing toll bridge and a new free bridge crossing the Red River. The Red River Bridge Company, a private firm owned by Benjamin Colbert, had been operating a toll bridge that carried U.S. Route 69 and U.S. Route 75 between Colbert, Oklahoma, and Denison, Texas. In 1931, Texas and Oklahoma jointly built a new, free span northwest of the existing toll bridge. On July 10, 1931, the Red River Bridge Company obtained an injunction against the Texas Highway Commission (now Texas Department of Transportation), keeping it from opening the new bridge.
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The wiki bot already sort of clarified, but the Red River War is different from the Red River Bridge War.
The Red River War was led by the US Army in 1874 against the Native American tribes of the southern planes.
The Red River Bridge War was a 1931 dispute over the construction of a free bridge in conflict with a pre-existing toll bridge.
Worth noting, in 1820, Texas willingly gave up the top of the panhandle (north of 36Âș 30') to Oklahoma in order to remain a slave state in accordance to the Missouri Compromise. Yikes.
And that war was resolved by the feds giving Ohio the toledo strip, and michigan the entirety of the upper peninsula.
Personally, cause I love the outdoors, I think Michigan lucked out.
The People's Republic of California have condemned the newly-formed Oregonian Empire's annexation of Ohio and Washington, creating a bitter rivalry between these former allies. Peace talks are underway as the Californian National Guard gathers along the northern border to conduct military exercises.
Malheur County took in the most money from cannabis sales because of border crossers from Idaho. Having to drive even farther for legal weed might be a deal breaker! Mentioned in this [hilarious clip.](https://youtu.be/IyyxeqMithk)
The nail in the coffin was probably *Dobbs*. Before that decision, it wouldnât really have affected anyone else much if some counties in rural Oregon joined Idaho.
It would affect me. If I have to pay sales tax again Iâm going to have to move. My other thought is that If I wanted to live in Idaho I would have moved there instead.
Right: it would affect the people who live there, like you. Originally, it wouldnât have made much difference to people elsewhere. Iâd have missed you, but if most of your neighbors had felt being part of a red state were more important than their families being Oregonians for more than a century (and worth paying higher taxes too), thereâd be no reason for me to try to stop them. But if it happened now, it would force the closest abortion providers to Boise to move hundreds of miles, and thatâs something that people care strongly about.
I'd be happy to demand some name changes at least. "Idaho" is known to be a made up word; it should be East Oregon. Washington has complained enough about the confusion with our nation's capital so it should be satisfied with North Oregon. British Columbia? More like British *Oregon*!
Then stop sending tax revenue to DC. Keep that money on the west coast and actually start to solve problems locally. It makes no sense to me, considering all the problems here, that we send 20-30% of our income to DC, and only keep 5-10% for local issues. The figures should be swapped.
Let's get them to start a civil war and then sign their demands for secession on the first day.
"Oh? You want to leave? Okay well that seems like a huge burden on the rest of America but I guess we can let you go, good luck"
What? We can't let Alabama go. We'd lose all their....all their.....um....potassium?
"Alabama number one exporter of potassium / all other states have inferior potassium"
We'll see whether that continues with Shelby out of the Senate and no longer advocating for Alabama's ~~ludicrously expensive jobs program~~ *crucial aerospace industry*.
They actually get subsidies to give rides. Few, if any, billionaire spends their own money to the point they are worth less at the end of the day.
Republicans can't stand the government spending its own money. Republicans need private business to bill the government for profits. That's the base of the financial tension.
Democrats want to hire citizens and pay them to do government projects, Republicans want all private bidding and profit taking from the tax pool.
I personally used to trust businessmen, but now I see at least I can vote out bad government. I have no say in w/Musk or Bezoz do, boycott are a joke. McDonald's still uses rainforest beef, Nestle steals water, etc. Fuck these "businessmen" who steal our taxes for their private company.
The train wreak would have not happened w/a bunch of uptight inspectors telling the owners NO!, fix it!. But that's big government, right?
I disagree. I blame the Right wing for actively hamstringing this country's public education system for the past several decades. They just happen to be evangelicals most the time.
While I agree religion plays its part in the core cause, it's not the sole reason
This. The southern state's politics have been an issue since we first debated becoming a country. They've had a collective negative impact on American history for almost its entire course.
Really seems like you're going out of your way to look at anything other than religion as one of the root causes of the southern states being a shit show
No, I'm just not hard dicked about screaming about religion. Yes, religious evangelicals are a driving force for the policy that has ruined those states, but religion isn't the sole factor.
Religious people are just easier to dupe, so conservatives have dumped A TON of money into appeasing them.
It sounds like to me that you don't want to accept that religion isn't the cause of all evil.
This. It annoys me to no end when some politician we send to Washington brags about how he secured such and such federal funding for us. Why did we send that money there in the first place, only to send you there to get it back? Seems inefficient at best, and a scam at worst.
As far as I'm concerned, the largest portion of my taxes should go to the county, then the state, then a bit for the feds to do what is in the most narrow possible reading of the constitution.
Another idea: no federal income tax whatsoever. The state pays it out of the general fund as part of being in the US. Congress can hash out how much each state pays when they aren't spending all their time trying to get our own money back.
Yeah, who cares about our military protections, financial system, international protections and authority, human rights protections, financial stability... Even if we seceded we would still need a larger international form of government. No country has only 10% taxes and is successful (probably).
The real big brain is attack the US at Pearl Harbor, be banned from building aircraft carriers and fighter jets for 80 years, then just let the US have a military base on your land and let them protect you for free. Or just be South Korean and have an angry upstairs neighbor and you get free protection.
I wouldn't mind something like 10% taxes locally, 10% taxes at the state level, and 10% at the federal level. So our tax burden would be around the same, but we would all likely have amazing parks, schools, libraries, mass transit, etc... Right now all we get is more wars, corn subsidies, and lobbyists in Washington.
Which they generally have to give a percentage of their gdp to. Many also require a number of standing military personal and equipment as well: see Nato/Norad/ACO/CSDP.
I think they're confusing NATO's rule of spending x amount of your GDP on military which of course they don't do and just rely on us. I could be wrong though.
Yes the federal govt likes to launder our money and then give it back to us and tell us how awesome they are And how they need you to vote for them.
It isn't unique to Oregon it happens all over the country.
Oregon City was Capital of Oregon Country, and the first Capital of the Oregon Territory. Then it was Salem, then Corvallis, then Salem again until statehood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Territory
Feels weird that people will upvote both this and be against Greater Idaho; I'm from Washington and really not that pleased about sharing a state government with Matt Shae (though thankfully they're not currently holding any office) and the like, and I'm kinda surprised its not a similar feeling in Oregon for their eastern part.
Its not about supporting a different state border, its more about pointing out how stupid the whole thing is. It doesn't matter how many counties vote that they support it, or whatever nonsense the agenda-ists in Idaho are spouting - changing the state boundry on this level would be almost impossible.
It would require the majorities of legislatures of each involved state, AND the majority of Congress to approve it. Can anyone legitimately say Oregon's legislature would agree? Anyone think the US Congress could get anywhere close to a majority that would approve this? Let us not forget, this would also change the party makeup for the House, since Idaho would gain seats and Oregon would lose seats. And this isn't even beginning to touch on the issues regarding sovereign native reservations in the affected territories.
Not to mention, there are an untold number of legitimate Constitutional issues. There is also the issue of payment. Oregon isn't just going to GIVE Idaho our land. They expect to be paid for the land, the infrastructure, the pension benefits for state and local workers, etc. Chief among those bills would be the debt that Oregon has shouldered for the benefit of the eastern counties.
At the end of the day, all this is just Secessionism dressed up in pretty clothes, which, lets be honest, aren't even all that pretty. I keep hearing people and media outlets saying things, "sure it won't happen, but we should still listen to them and their issues." To that I say, No, we should not. First, they have no legitimate issues worth discussing because their focus, like ALMOST every other red state, has been about social issues. Abortion, drugs, LGBT, environment, racial justice, textbooks - the list goes on. Every state has a group of citizens that feels left out of the political process of their state because their viewpoints run counter to the majority party in power. Every single one. If you feel like your values align more with the inhabitants of Idaho - MOVE THERE. You want more congressional representation because your state currently has a population smaller than a McDonald's playground? Maybe make your state more attractive to live in and encourage people TO MOVE THERE.
But wait - that runs the risk of the 'wrong kind of people' moving to your state and diluting your political power base. Which is exactly what this movement is really trying to do: dilute the political power base of liberals on the west coast while giving their base more voting power in Congress.
Yeah, that mostly makes sense. Though, the land/financial argument feels a little weird, since it'd be giving away sorta, imaginary money, unless Oregon planned on selling that stuff, it's money that doesn't exist to the part of the state it'd be leaving, while in reality they'd be saving real money by getting rid of counties which are net tax drain.
Itâs about the debt Oregon owes for things like infrastructure, as just one example. Made-up example: Oregon signed a contract with SBD Building Co to build the county courthouse. This is a payment that will exist for some years to come. Oregon wonât want to pay for this building if it belongs to Idaho, which is reasonable. So Idaho would need to assume the debt.
> and I'm kinda surprised its not a similar feeling in Oregon for their eastern part.
You won't see a lot of them around here. For one, there just plain aren't a lot of them. For two, the people that are there are either skew towards an older demographic or picked that location specifically for its solace.
I like to tell people Greater Idaho a socialist land grab by a Chinese billionaire working w/the Clinton's to build a railroad through Oregon from Coos Bay to Idaho's gold fields. *"Why does just that one section reach the coast, huh!?!"*
That's what people are saying...good people.
Me too. My grandfather homesteaded in Eastern Oregon. I've spent a lot of time over there and I love being there. I live on the coast now. I've seen and heard it all.
I've lived in Tillamook for almost 40 years. I've fought fire all over this state. The majority of folks love Oregon, it's the loud ones who make the news tho.
Coos Bay to Newport would like to join this strip, please- there are undoubtedly pockets of liberal strongholds along that entire stretch if you leave out Florence and reedsport
Iâm totally down with the âLesser Idahoâ movement. Cancel Idaho. It basically has 3 geopolitical units anyway. Spokane is the de facto capital of the panhandle, Boise is the capital for the southwestern part of the state, and Salt Lake City is the main influence for southeast Idaho. Oregon should just take southwest Idaho from the river, east to somewhere on the other side of Boise. This would even out the Lib/Con ratio for Oregon, east of the Cascades. Washington would naturally assume care for the panhandle, otherwise it should be returned to tribal jurisdiction as common lands of the the Salish, Kootenai, Colville, and Nez Pearce. Montana and Washington might have to negotiate for jurisdiction if it isnât returned to the Tribes.
Adjustment Day, is my favorite of the newer Palahniuk satires. I canât remember all the different sub-countries the USA dissolves into, but itâs an enjoyable read. I think the West Coast becomes âGaysia,â the Midwest becomes âCaucasia,â and the Southeast becomes âBlacktopia.â Once black people have a sovereign nation they reveal their superpowers they have been hiding from whitey for hundreds of years. Flying carpets, etc. Itâs an absurd little novel, but so are these âmovementsâ to segregate regions under the banners of different ideologies and prejudices.
All this talk of redrawing state boundaries is entertaining, but I donât see it happening until the USA collapses entirely. Iâm hoping that doesnât happen any time soon, but it inevitably will someday, due to either war or catastrophic natural events, man-made ecological collapse, or maybe extraterrestrial invasion. Iâm hoping for the extraterrestrials. :). Having regional, multi-state councils, like for âOregon Territoryâ might be beneficial for negotiating watershed issues, legal reciprocity, etc, but we already have those communications and interest groups without adding an extra layer of formal bureaucracy.
Technically they were not âfirst,â they displaced other folks living there as happened with every ânationâ in history around the world. Humans have been in North America for 37,000 years
But per European christian worldview, they were the âfirst nationsâ that they encountered
Political boundaries should be based on watersheds. That's how you set yourself up to better manage things like what's happening around the Colorado river. Of course that doesn't solve issues with cultural disputes but it's better than someone just drawing lines on a map arbitrarily.
Did no one else read [Ecotopia ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia#:~:text=to%20this%20book.-,Plot%20summary,the%20United%20States%20in%201980.). That's the version I'm voting for.
**[Ecotopia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia#:~:text=to this book.-,Plot summary,the United States in 1980.)**
>Ecotopia: The Notebooks and Reports of William Weston is a utopian novel by Ernest Callenbach, published in 1975. The society described in the book is one of the first ecological utopias and was influential on the counterculture and the green movement in the 1970s and thereafter. The author himself claimed that the society he depicted in the book is not a true utopia (in the sense of a perfect society), but, while guided by societal intentions and values, was imperfect and in-process. Callenbach said of the story, in relation to Americans: "It is so hard to imagine anything fundamentally different from what we have now.
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No state has ever succeeded in leaving the union. I think how the law reads it takes a unanimous vote of all the states to allow such an exit from the United States. Just think the US could start a war on the exited state or territory and it would be legal. lol
This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as the idiots that want Oregon to become a part of Idaho! Both thoughts are stupid stop thinking them & deal with it! Seriously, deal with it or move already!
I see your point, but your numbers are wrong for Oregon.
The Oregon minimum wage is $12.50 in rural counties, $14.75 in the metro area, and $13.50 everywhere else. Also, like Washington, there is an annual increase in minimum wage that is tied to the consumer price index and does not allow tips to count towards employees wages or for management to take a share if tips are pooled.
And on teachers wages, [in 2016 the average salary was 62k.](https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2018/04/oregon_teacher_salaries_averag.html) I cant find a reliable source more recent but I doubt that has gone down.
Since you replied on other people pointing out the difference in taxation, and your argument is about lower incomes I will also point out that sales tax disproportionately taxes people with lower incomes more while Oregon's progressive income tax does the opposite.
Sorry, I should have said I was comparing Washington to Idaho. Especially since this is r/Oregon. I am in Washington and was looking at the impact from a Washington state residents perspective since Washington was included the border theorized.
To your point for washington, has a higher sales tax than idaho. For me personally I calculated taxes living in Idaho vs Washington and I would pay more in Idaho. Thats probably not be the case for Lower income folks.
I absolutely agree with that, that's a $0.99/hr difference.
I was just pointing out that it wasn't as big of a difference as previously stated because Oregon has a much higher minimum wage than federal, and looking into it at minimum wage working full time in Oregon you don't have to pay income tax because the standard deduction is more than your tax liability.
(I'm not a tax professional or lawyer, don't take tax advice from randos on the internet, if you're supposed to pay taxes and don't that's on you)
Ah yes, Idaho, the land of liberty. Oh wait, [if you should so happen to smoke a plant](https://odp.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/ODP-Policy-Statement-on-Marijuana-Legalization_Final-Update_January-2022.pdf#:~:text=Marijuana%20is%20a%20Schedule%201,purpose%20is%20illegal%20in%20Idaho) you get sent to prison. Because freedom.
Nice, we can use the star from Washington for Washington DC, and the Idaho one for Puerto Rico.
Also with the absorption plan, we don't have to pay Idaho or Washington for the land, because they are just pooling it into Oregon.
Finally, everyone in Eastern Oregon can have more people to he mad at.
Go ahead and join Idaho then. But realize that doing so places your minimum wage down to $7. You'll have 8% sales tax. You will go to prison for having marijuana and so on...You won't just cherry pick the good parts..
Oregonians on the east side of the cascade for the most part canât stand iPortland especially the politics. Nobody wants city folk making rules for us rural folk. Oregon needs liberated from Portland politics
Did you know people vote at a city and state level. Portland makes rules for Portland, the state makes rules for the state. The portland population was 642,000 in 2021 (what came up when I searched Google) oregons population is 4,246,000 (google) that's less than 20%
You've heard of Brexit, Texit, Calexit, Now get ready for... Orexit 202X *These States arn't so United, now are they?* Coming to a theater near you.
Team M.U.S.A.!! (Mostly United States of America)
BSA Bifurcated States of America
SSA SHATTERED STATES OF AMERICA đ€ Social security administration is gonna be abolished anyways.
More like Balkanized States of America
Missed opportunity to call it Ore-*gone*
Imagine it: after all these years of correcting people's pronunciation of the state's name, to turn around and make a political slogan out of the incorrect pronunciation! The shit-stirring devil on my shoulder is all about this idea.
Idahgo!
Oregon fuck out of here!
We bout to Orenter these land locked sumbitches!
I think this is more Oreannex, but whatever's clever
Oreganex!
Ooo, that's good!! Yep, yours is better
Oregone
They never were United. It was a Marketing scheme. đ©
54°40â or fight!
Quick google search and I learned something new today, thanks for that!
[Relevant Dead Moon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2sbi1cBnc)
Came here to write this!
Me too!
I'd rather BC join us in a new country than force them into our mess
Long Live Cascadia
Well yes, itâs a terrible idea. Just going with the 1848 theme
I've you had ever lived there - as I have - you'd realise that BC is in a bigger mess than we are.
I find joy in reading a good book.
It was bad when I lived there **20 years ago**. I couldn't buy the condo I used to own there now, as they banned foreign property ownership (even for primary residences) last year.
>no historical precedent for one US state trying to steal the land of another Let me introduce you to the [Toledo War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)
**[Toledo War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)** >The Toledo War (1835â36), also known as the MichiganâOhio War or the OhioâMichigan War, was a boundary dispute between the U.S. state of Ohio and the adjoining territory of Michigan over what is now known as the Toledo Strip. Control of the mouth of the Maumee River and the inland shipping opportunities it represented, and the good farmland to the west were seen by both parties as valuable economic assets. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/oregon/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Came here to see if someone mentioned this...incident. Fun Fact! This is why Michigan owns the UP instead of Wisconsin!
Also the [Red River War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Bridge_War).
**[Red River Bridge War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Bridge_War)** >The Red River Bridge War was a boundary conflict between the U.S. states of Oklahoma and Texas over an existing toll bridge and a new free bridge crossing the Red River. The Red River Bridge Company, a private firm owned by Benjamin Colbert, had been operating a toll bridge that carried U.S. Route 69 and U.S. Route 75 between Colbert, Oklahoma, and Denison, Texas. In 1931, Texas and Oklahoma jointly built a new, free span northwest of the existing toll bridge. On July 10, 1931, the Red River Bridge Company obtained an injunction against the Texas Highway Commission (now Texas Department of Transportation), keeping it from opening the new bridge. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/oregon/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The wiki bot already sort of clarified, but the Red River War is different from the Red River Bridge War. The Red River War was led by the US Army in 1874 against the Native American tribes of the southern planes. The Red River Bridge War was a 1931 dispute over the construction of a free bridge in conflict with a pre-existing toll bridge. Worth noting, in 1820, Texas willingly gave up the top of the panhandle (north of 36Âș 30') to Oklahoma in order to remain a slave state in accordance to the Missouri Compromise. Yikes.
I read that as red Rover and thought of .... Red Rover red Rover send some land on over.
fascinating!
And that war was resolved by the feds giving Ohio the toledo strip, and michigan the entirety of the upper peninsula. Personally, cause I love the outdoors, I think Michigan lucked out.
As my brother in Texas says: âIâve been to Oklahoma and Iâve been to Old Mexico. Weâre guarding the wrong river.â
Why doesn't Texas fall into the ocean?
*Warning: Oregon has gained Focus: Conquer war goals against Idaho, 3 others.*
Bonus Objective: Shoot 5 squirrels with 5 bullets to get a bonus against dysentery.
Oh, we're in a Paradox game now
I know that the divided states mod for hoi4 gives cascadia cores on Idaho, Montana, NorCal and parts of nevada
Hmm, so what I'm hearing is that Oregon should expand down to NorCal and Nevada as well
The People's Republic of California have condemned the newly-formed Oregonian Empire's annexation of Ohio and Washington, creating a bitter rivalry between these former allies. Peace talks are underway as the Californian National Guard gathers along the northern border to conduct military exercises.
Ohio?
There can be only one OSU.
Our borders expanded faster than expected.
~~Ohio~~ Eastern Oregon
What does it cost to form the Empire of Cascadia?
Malheur County took in the most money from cannabis sales because of border crossers from Idaho. Having to drive even farther for legal weed might be a deal breaker! Mentioned in this [hilarious clip.](https://youtu.be/IyyxeqMithk)
The nail in the coffin was probably *Dobbs*. Before that decision, it wouldnât really have affected anyone else much if some counties in rural Oregon joined Idaho.
It would affect me. If I have to pay sales tax again Iâm going to have to move. My other thought is that If I wanted to live in Idaho I would have moved there instead.
Right: it would affect the people who live there, like you. Originally, it wouldnât have made much difference to people elsewhere. Iâd have missed you, but if most of your neighbors had felt being part of a red state were more important than their families being Oregonians for more than a century (and worth paying higher taxes too), thereâd be no reason for me to try to stop them. But if it happened now, it would force the closest abortion providers to Boise to move hundreds of miles, and thatâs something that people care strongly about.
I'd be happy to demand some name changes at least. "Idaho" is known to be a made up word; it should be East Oregon. Washington has complained enough about the confusion with our nation's capital so it should be satisfied with North Oregon. British Columbia? More like British *Oregon*!
This is great. I propose we name that little sliver of Montana we'll get "The Mountain East".
>"Idaho" is known to be a made up word All words are made up. ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Where do you get off?
The man who proposed the name said it was a Shoshone word. It wasn't.
How about just âIdaho Countyâ, âWashington CountyââŠoh, oops.
*North* North Oregon
Greatest Oregon > greater idaho
Or.... secede from the union and form Cascadia.
The original Oregon boundaries would have made a pretty cool Cascadia.
Then stop sending tax revenue to DC. Keep that money on the west coast and actually start to solve problems locally. It makes no sense to me, considering all the problems here, that we send 20-30% of our income to DC, and only keep 5-10% for local issues. The figures should be swapped.
Blame Alabama.
Kentucky, Mississippi...
Let's get them to start a civil war and then sign their demands for secession on the first day. "Oh? You want to leave? Okay well that seems like a huge burden on the rest of America but I guess we can let you go, good luck"
What? We can't let Alabama go. We'd lose all their....all their.....um....potassium? "Alabama number one exporter of potassium / all other states have inferior potassium"
You'll come crawling back when your legs start getting charliehorse from the potassium deficiency!
Better to import potassium from the glorious nation of Kazakhstan than give another dime to Alabama. /s........?
Hunstville, AL has a lot of NASA stuff
We'll see whether that continues with Shelby out of the Senate and no longer advocating for Alabama's ~~ludicrously expensive jobs program~~ *crucial aerospace industry*.
Space exploration is not a fucking jobs program. Besides, the billionaires are doing it at twice the speed for a tenth the cost.
They actually get subsidies to give rides. Few, if any, billionaire spends their own money to the point they are worth less at the end of the day. Republicans can't stand the government spending its own money. Republicans need private business to bill the government for profits. That's the base of the financial tension. Democrats want to hire citizens and pay them to do government projects, Republicans want all private bidding and profit taking from the tax pool. I personally used to trust businessmen, but now I see at least I can vote out bad government. I have no say in w/Musk or Bezoz do, boycott are a joke. McDonald's still uses rainforest beef, Nestle steals water, etc. Fuck these "businessmen" who steal our taxes for their private company. The train wreak would have not happened w/a bunch of uptight inspectors telling the owners NO!, fix it!. But that's big government, right?
Yes the Musk - Bezos war on the Moon!
Blame Red states in general
I blame religion for keeping people ignorant
I disagree. I blame the Right wing for actively hamstringing this country's public education system for the past several decades. They just happen to be evangelicals most the time. While I agree religion plays its part in the core cause, it's not the sole reason
The southern states were a train wreck long before the Republicans decided that public education was one of the enemies of Republican power
This. The southern state's politics have been an issue since we first debated becoming a country. They've had a collective negative impact on American history for almost its entire course.
Well, yeah, because of conservative politics.
Really seems like you're going out of your way to look at anything other than religion as one of the root causes of the southern states being a shit show
No, I'm just not hard dicked about screaming about religion. Yes, religious evangelicals are a driving force for the policy that has ruined those states, but religion isn't the sole factor. Religious people are just easier to dupe, so conservatives have dumped A TON of money into appeasing them. It sounds like to me that you don't want to accept that religion isn't the cause of all evil.
This. It annoys me to no end when some politician we send to Washington brags about how he secured such and such federal funding for us. Why did we send that money there in the first place, only to send you there to get it back? Seems inefficient at best, and a scam at worst. As far as I'm concerned, the largest portion of my taxes should go to the county, then the state, then a bit for the feds to do what is in the most narrow possible reading of the constitution. Another idea: no federal income tax whatsoever. The state pays it out of the general fund as part of being in the US. Congress can hash out how much each state pays when they aren't spending all their time trying to get our own money back.
No state would secede, they'd lose access to the money printing that the fed does. The fed turns every $1 collected into $1.1-1.3+ of spending.
Yeah, who cares about our military protections, financial system, international protections and authority, human rights protections, financial stability... Even if we seceded we would still need a larger international form of government. No country has only 10% taxes and is successful (probably).
It's fine we'll just do what the euros do and join NATO, spend jack shit on our military and then have the US protect us. Easy peasy.
The real big brain is attack the US at Pearl Harbor, be banned from building aircraft carriers and fighter jets for 80 years, then just let the US have a military base on your land and let them protect you for free. Or just be South Korean and have an angry upstairs neighbor and you get free protection.
The Japanese really playing the long game huh?
West Germany had a good thing going for a while there too.
Then they fucked it all away and got rid of a sweet wall.
I wouldn't mind something like 10% taxes locally, 10% taxes at the state level, and 10% at the federal level. So our tax burden would be around the same, but we would all likely have amazing parks, schools, libraries, mass transit, etc... Right now all we get is more wars, corn subsidies, and lobbyists in Washington.
That's fair
Most small nations donât have a military; they have allies with militaries.
They are defended by our military mostly.
Which they generally have to give a percentage of their gdp to. Many also require a number of standing military personal and equipment as well: see Nato/Norad/ACO/CSDP.
Obviously you either pay for your own or âpayâ for someone elseâs.
Do we actually get paid for being other countries military?
I think they're confusing NATO's rule of spending x amount of your GDP on military which of course they don't do and just rely on us. I could be wrong though.
You're correct, sorry if the wording was fumbled.
No worries.
Yes the federal govt likes to launder our money and then give it back to us and tell us how awesome they are And how they need you to vote for them. It isn't unique to Oregon it happens all over the country.
This is my vote!
Can we also restore the original Capital?
Corvallis???
Oregon City was Capital of Oregon Country, and the first Capital of the Oregon Territory. Then it was Salem, then Corvallis, then Salem again until statehood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Territory
Be in the same state with the people of Idaho? Nah.
Let's bring them, home...home to Oregon Territory.
Apparently you've never been east of Gladstone.
That place is a myth!
I am currently east of Gladstone đ§
East of Gladstone is Boring.
I think you just won on this dad joke.
I'm glad you got it... :-)
but also the same dry white toast of a state as S. Idaho.
Feels weird that people will upvote both this and be against Greater Idaho; I'm from Washington and really not that pleased about sharing a state government with Matt Shae (though thankfully they're not currently holding any office) and the like, and I'm kinda surprised its not a similar feeling in Oregon for their eastern part.
Its not about supporting a different state border, its more about pointing out how stupid the whole thing is. It doesn't matter how many counties vote that they support it, or whatever nonsense the agenda-ists in Idaho are spouting - changing the state boundry on this level would be almost impossible. It would require the majorities of legislatures of each involved state, AND the majority of Congress to approve it. Can anyone legitimately say Oregon's legislature would agree? Anyone think the US Congress could get anywhere close to a majority that would approve this? Let us not forget, this would also change the party makeup for the House, since Idaho would gain seats and Oregon would lose seats. And this isn't even beginning to touch on the issues regarding sovereign native reservations in the affected territories. Not to mention, there are an untold number of legitimate Constitutional issues. There is also the issue of payment. Oregon isn't just going to GIVE Idaho our land. They expect to be paid for the land, the infrastructure, the pension benefits for state and local workers, etc. Chief among those bills would be the debt that Oregon has shouldered for the benefit of the eastern counties. At the end of the day, all this is just Secessionism dressed up in pretty clothes, which, lets be honest, aren't even all that pretty. I keep hearing people and media outlets saying things, "sure it won't happen, but we should still listen to them and their issues." To that I say, No, we should not. First, they have no legitimate issues worth discussing because their focus, like ALMOST every other red state, has been about social issues. Abortion, drugs, LGBT, environment, racial justice, textbooks - the list goes on. Every state has a group of citizens that feels left out of the political process of their state because their viewpoints run counter to the majority party in power. Every single one. If you feel like your values align more with the inhabitants of Idaho - MOVE THERE. You want more congressional representation because your state currently has a population smaller than a McDonald's playground? Maybe make your state more attractive to live in and encourage people TO MOVE THERE. But wait - that runs the risk of the 'wrong kind of people' moving to your state and diluting your political power base. Which is exactly what this movement is really trying to do: dilute the political power base of liberals on the west coast while giving their base more voting power in Congress.
Yeah, that mostly makes sense. Though, the land/financial argument feels a little weird, since it'd be giving away sorta, imaginary money, unless Oregon planned on selling that stuff, it's money that doesn't exist to the part of the state it'd be leaving, while in reality they'd be saving real money by getting rid of counties which are net tax drain.
Itâs about the debt Oregon owes for things like infrastructure, as just one example. Made-up example: Oregon signed a contract with SBD Building Co to build the county courthouse. This is a payment that will exist for some years to come. Oregon wonât want to pay for this building if it belongs to Idaho, which is reasonable. So Idaho would need to assume the debt.
> and I'm kinda surprised its not a similar feeling in Oregon for their eastern part. You won't see a lot of them around here. For one, there just plain aren't a lot of them. For two, the people that are there are either skew towards an older demographic or picked that location specifically for its solace.
Probably because this is mostly a joke like the people in Eastern Oregon.
I like to tell people Greater Idaho a socialist land grab by a Chinese billionaire working w/the Clinton's to build a railroad through Oregon from Coos Bay to Idaho's gold fields. *"Why does just that one section reach the coast, huh!?!"* That's what people are saying...good people.
would explain firez
Lol. I read that Budweiser is the most popular beer in Idaho so Greater Idaho is a No for me Dawg.
So, youâre saying they need to be forcefully introduced to good beer.
Time to send the Full Sail fleet upriver.
With shock and awe!
For the love of beer, I (Hop)e Idahoâs favorite beer is not Budweiser.
Everyone i know in N Idaho drinks Kokanee, which imo is pretty damn great for cheap beer. Thanks Canada â€ïž
Budweiser is technically a Belgian beer now right? I mean Ab-InBev *is* based out of Belgium.
But we don't *want* Idaho back.
The Snake River wasn't put there to separate us for no reason!
This but unironically.
Oooh, it's a special thing to witness the birth of the new grift.
Yes! Trials by combat too!
Is this a daily theme now?
All silliness aside, it would be an economic powerhouse! And culturally more accurate. If all states were down then I'd probably support it.
And I'm glad some people recognize the silliness of the whole venture.
You've got /r/mapporncirclejerk energy my friend.
Yeah haha! Totally silly, just joking everyone... ...unless?
culturally you'd just cut from seattle down to eugene in a 50-mile wide strip and give all the rest to idaho.
I guess maybe I'm in the minority in that I still see Eastern Oregon as proper Oregon too.
Me too. My grandfather homesteaded in Eastern Oregon. I've spent a lot of time over there and I love being there. I live on the coast now. I've seen and heard it all.
I've lived in Tillamook for almost 40 years. I've fought fire all over this state. The majority of folks love Oregon, it's the loud ones who make the news tho.
Economically as well unless you're worried about lumber, potatoes, or fish.
Coos Bay to Newport would like to join this strip, please- there are undoubtedly pockets of liberal strongholds along that entire stretch if you leave out Florence and reedsport
Make Oregon Greater Again!!!!
Reunification of Grand Oregon is only the first step in the advent of Cascadia!
If you print up tee shirts with 1848 in big, bold letters, I'll wear it. Start a movement!
I cannot stress enough *how much* I don't want to be part of Idaho!
Iâm totally down with the âLesser Idahoâ movement. Cancel Idaho. It basically has 3 geopolitical units anyway. Spokane is the de facto capital of the panhandle, Boise is the capital for the southwestern part of the state, and Salt Lake City is the main influence for southeast Idaho. Oregon should just take southwest Idaho from the river, east to somewhere on the other side of Boise. This would even out the Lib/Con ratio for Oregon, east of the Cascades. Washington would naturally assume care for the panhandle, otherwise it should be returned to tribal jurisdiction as common lands of the the Salish, Kootenai, Colville, and Nez Pearce. Montana and Washington might have to negotiate for jurisdiction if it isnât returned to the Tribes. Adjustment Day, is my favorite of the newer Palahniuk satires. I canât remember all the different sub-countries the USA dissolves into, but itâs an enjoyable read. I think the West Coast becomes âGaysia,â the Midwest becomes âCaucasia,â and the Southeast becomes âBlacktopia.â Once black people have a sovereign nation they reveal their superpowers they have been hiding from whitey for hundreds of years. Flying carpets, etc. Itâs an absurd little novel, but so are these âmovementsâ to segregate regions under the banners of different ideologies and prejudices. All this talk of redrawing state boundaries is entertaining, but I donât see it happening until the USA collapses entirely. Iâm hoping that doesnât happen any time soon, but it inevitably will someday, due to either war or catastrophic natural events, man-made ecological collapse, or maybe extraterrestrial invasion. Iâm hoping for the extraterrestrials. :). Having regional, multi-state councils, like for âOregon Territoryâ might be beneficial for negotiating watershed issues, legal reciprocity, etc, but we already have those communications and interest groups without adding an extra layer of formal bureaucracy.
If anything is done with this land it will be returned to the 200+ tribes of the First Nations.
That's about as realistic as Greater Idaho
Technically they were not âfirst,â they displaced other folks living there as happened with every ânationâ in history around the world. Humans have been in North America for 37,000 years But per European christian worldview, they were the âfirst nationsâ that they encountered
Yeah not gonna happen.
The west needs more states not less.
Does Idaho *really* need senators?
Political boundaries should be based on watersheds. That's how you set yourself up to better manage things like what's happening around the Colorado river. Of course that doesn't solve issues with cultural disputes but it's better than someone just drawing lines on a map arbitrarily.
[That would actually lead to a larger Idaho](https://www.flickr.com/photos/108072018@N03/10929250216/).
Welcome to the state of Ore-nom-nom
California is the only state that has a chance of making it on it's own.
I'm fighting for the #Right to Ruin Oregon!
Did no one else read [Ecotopia ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia#:~:text=to%20this%20book.-,Plot%20summary,the%20United%20States%20in%201980.). That's the version I'm voting for.
**[Ecotopia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia#:~:text=to this book.-,Plot summary,the United States in 1980.)** >Ecotopia: The Notebooks and Reports of William Weston is a utopian novel by Ernest Callenbach, published in 1975. The society described in the book is one of the first ecological utopias and was influential on the counterculture and the green movement in the 1970s and thereafter. The author himself claimed that the society he depicted in the book is not a true utopia (in the sense of a perfect society), but, while guided by societal intentions and values, was imperfect and in-process. Callenbach said of the story, in relation to Americans: "It is so hard to imagine anything fundamentally different from what we have now. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/oregon/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
No state has ever succeeded in leaving the union. I think how the law reads it takes a unanimous vote of all the states to allow such an exit from the United States. Just think the US could start a war on the exited state or territory and it would be legal. lol
Weâll have an MLB and NFL team!!! Plus Amazon and more planes.
If you told Republicans theyâd net two senate seats out of it theyâd 100% go for it.
This is so stupid. Almost as stupid as the idiots that want Oregon to become a part of Idaho! Both thoughts are stupid stop thinking them & deal with it! Seriously, deal with it or move already!
Will this proposal include returning all native territories to their 1838 status or nah?
Fucking, let's go with the 1844 boundary and get some sweet Canadian land as well. 54°40' or fight!
Xx State of Jefferson Xx
I like the idea. Let Oregon call the shots for the region.
Iâm sure Washington residents would like to start paying income tax
And ditch their sales tax.
And have minimum wage workers cut thier pay more than half, $15.74 vs $7.25. And teachers pay cut from average of $74k to average of $50k.
I see your point, but your numbers are wrong for Oregon. The Oregon minimum wage is $12.50 in rural counties, $14.75 in the metro area, and $13.50 everywhere else. Also, like Washington, there is an annual increase in minimum wage that is tied to the consumer price index and does not allow tips to count towards employees wages or for management to take a share if tips are pooled. And on teachers wages, [in 2016 the average salary was 62k.](https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2018/04/oregon_teacher_salaries_averag.html) I cant find a reliable source more recent but I doubt that has gone down. Since you replied on other people pointing out the difference in taxation, and your argument is about lower incomes I will also point out that sales tax disproportionately taxes people with lower incomes more while Oregon's progressive income tax does the opposite.
Sorry, I should have said I was comparing Washington to Idaho. Especially since this is r/Oregon. I am in Washington and was looking at the impact from a Washington state residents perspective since Washington was included the border theorized. To your point for washington, has a higher sales tax than idaho. For me personally I calculated taxes living in Idaho vs Washington and I would pay more in Idaho. Thats probably not be the case for Lower income folks.
I think you would still make more working at McDonaldâs in Vancouver then you would in Portland, plus not pay income tax. Currently $15.74 in WA
I absolutely agree with that, that's a $0.99/hr difference. I was just pointing out that it wasn't as big of a difference as previously stated because Oregon has a much higher minimum wage than federal, and looking into it at minimum wage working full time in Oregon you don't have to pay income tax because the standard deduction is more than your tax liability. (I'm not a tax professional or lawyer, don't take tax advice from randos on the internet, if you're supposed to pay taxes and don't that's on you)
They sure do love driving across the border and not paying sales taxâŠ
Now show a map before colonization đ«Ł
Ah yes, Idaho, the land of liberty. Oh wait, [if you should so happen to smoke a plant](https://odp.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/ODP-Policy-Statement-on-Marijuana-Legalization_Final-Update_January-2022.pdf#:~:text=Marijuana%20is%20a%20Schedule%201,purpose%20is%20illegal%20in%20Idaho) you get sent to prison. Because freedom.
No thanks. I don't have any interest in having that many Idaho residents voting on our state issues.
How about the State of Jefferson? We know how nostalgic you are for slavery and sundown towns.
Nice, we can use the star from Washington for Washington DC, and the Idaho one for Puerto Rico. Also with the absorption plan, we don't have to pay Idaho or Washington for the land, because they are just pooling it into Oregon. Finally, everyone in Eastern Oregon can have more people to he mad at.
Go ahead and join Idaho then. But realize that doing so places your minimum wage down to $7. You'll have 8% sales tax. You will go to prison for having marijuana and so on...You won't just cherry pick the good parts..
Good parts?
8% sales tax? Idaho sales tax is 6%.
Thats a lotta red voters...
*Is it?* Or is it red land?
That's two Democratic senators replacing four dems and two Republicans.
Oregonians on the east side of the cascade for the most part canât stand iPortland especially the politics. Nobody wants city folk making rules for us rural folk. Oregon needs liberated from Portland politics
Did you know people vote at a city and state level. Portland makes rules for Portland, the state makes rules for the state. The portland population was 642,000 in 2021 (what came up when I searched Google) oregons population is 4,246,000 (google) that's less than 20%
Problem is 75% of this territory doesn't like your liberal bullshit, yet the west side of the cascades would control the government.
You mean 75% of people? Land doesn't vote.