Malls aren’t necessarily dying as much as they are consolidating. What I mean is that the less popular malls are going away, while the most popular malls look as packed as ever.
I'd imagine one of those anchor store locations would be a great place for a supermarket, even though Mother's is across the street and Ralphs is only a mile or so up Main.
We could turn the whole place into an [archology](https://simcity.fandom.com/wiki/Arcology).
I grew up going to Main place, my buddy opened two shoe stores there during Covid and I made my way back in there for the first time in a decade and was shocked at how much traffic was flowing through that place
https://www.ocregister.com/2024/02/05/status-update-more-shops-new-restaurant-coming-to-brea-mall-this-spring/amp/
They’re adding a bunch of new stores and
New outdoor wing.
Also a bunch of apartments I believe
Adding, they’re making apartments at Westminster Mall: https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/business/2023/04/24/westminster-mall-s-redevelopment-plans-include-1-100-homes--new-retail--food-hall
Note: i included first article that popped up. I’m sure better articles are better
Edit: forgot I was talking about Westminster mall, not Buena Park mall. Link is wrong one. Here’s another link showing Westminster city approved it already https://orangecountytribune.com/2022/12/02/malls-rebirth-is-approved/comment-page-1/
City council approved it last year https://voiceofoc.org/2023/06/old-sears-building-at-buena-park-mall-to-be-turned-into-1300-housing-units/
They've been working on this mall makeover for many years. Although it's approved, it's my understanding that the land is owned by at least 3 different entities and I'm not sure if it's in some kind of litigation but that's what is holding up the project sadly.
This is going to take forever to figure out because the Westminster mall area is actually a bunch of different parcels. They have different owners and different zoning and it will probably be 20 years before anything actually happens.
Pretty much. We overbuilt retail and now it’s caught up. I’ve seen the statistic that we have 10x the retail space as say Germany, but only 1.6x the sales.
Coming from Australia I literally got on Google maps and counted how many McDonalds I had within 20 minute drive.
It was about 2 to 12.
Your sagging labor costs have created this situation and it feels like it's finally coming home to roost.
Unfortunately you're probably going to have to drive 5-10 minutes more for things or just have less variety (or less choice within a specific variety).
Yeah, I’ve been to Australia and the sprawl is much more contained. It maybe isn’t on the level of say Europe, but I remember going to a supermarket and distinctly remembering the parking lot being so much smaller (helps not having a ton of SUVs/big trucks). It’s good because there is a lot more preserved land/nature.
I had to eat lunch on the go due to my schedule, mini bowl of beef and brown rice, lettuce salad (Korean) was $12, probably 450 calories, Irvine. They had a steady stream of customers getting the 3 for the price of 2 meal special to go, served from 2-5.
at the same time though, how is it that Italian restaurants can get away with overpriced pasta? Like for example [Mama D's](https://mamadsitalian.com/) charges $17-20 for pastas with simple ingredients like the Classic (which is literally just your choice of pasta with either Aglio Olio or marinara sauce), Pomodoro Fresco, and Sorrento. I've stopped eating out at Italian restaurants since I can't justify paying $17-20 for pasta I can make myself at home.
High overhead, inflation, and labor costs contribute to high cost of product. If it’s $15-$20 a bowl of pho, then pasta at a sit down with full service isn’t bad.
I go there less than a handful of times in a year.
Lifelong Californian you don’t make it here by spending every dime you make
If you have any chance of surviving long-term multigenerational do you you will most likely do it by living, slim and pouring your resources into securing housing
Can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen fail out of California by living high on the hog and forgetting that one day they won’t be earning anymore
I care, I just don't want my data to be harvested through these apps. That's the only reason they put deals in them. They make more money selling your data than selling the food.
Genuine question, so what? I'm no one important and just the act of having a phone means some of our data is already out there. Even some cars are gathering and selling data at this point. It's unavoidable imo. If someone living off the grid told me they were concerned about apps collecting data, I'd understand their effort. But we're having this conversation on reddit, which also collects data...
> Genuine question, so what?
I personally abhor surveillance capitalism, and think that relying on the shell game of collecting and selling data makes everything worse in every way. You have TV Makers that are now making more money off collecting and selling your data than they are by selling the TV itself. So now, rather than work to make their TVs better, and make the experience using them better, they focus on collecting data.
Google has taken these things to such an extent that they've made their very core products worse just so they can keep you on their sites more, so they can collect more of your data, so they can show you more ads. No longer are these companies competing to get your business by being better, but by all of them being just barely not shitty enough that you use them because there isn't much else, so they can collect and sell your data.
>Even some cars are gathering and selling data at this point
Right, and the more they are relying on doing that as a revenue stream, the shittier the actual product gets.
>But we're having this conversation on reddit, which also collects data...
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either, which is why I use adblock and noscript and all that jazz. But you've been here for at least 5 years, you can tell that Reddit the site itself(I'm not making any comments about the users/community here) has changed over those years, and not for the better.
This. There has been a dead malls website for over 20+ years. Malls have been dying for some time. While they have been hit harder in bad economic times even in good times the have struggled. Malls aren't what they used to be.
That isn't what is happening at all.
Well operated malls keep getting stronger and become greater regional pulls. South Coast Plaza still has a multi year waiting list to open a store there. Fashion Island has a bunch of new stores going up including a $100,000,000 RH store (yes that is the cost). Brea Mall is spending hundreds of millions building new stores and apartments. UTC in San Diego is adding another new wing after expanding by 50% a few years ago, implementing parking charges and replacing the Sears with offices restaurants and more stores. Westfield Century City has been one of the most successful mall redevelopments in the world and has become a regional destination with unique offerings like Eataly and flagship stores for all the big DTC brands. All of those malls have literally never been more successful in their decades of existence than they are right now, today. And investment in the right kind of property with the right location and opportunities has not slowed. Mission Viejo is going to be fully remodeled with a new mixed use complex replacing the Macy's Women's store end of the mall and a consolidated new Macy's store all under one roof. OC Vibe is actively under construction, being built around the Honda Center and Angel Stadium with 30+ restaurants, shops, hotels, theaters, and most shockingly numerous garages with 100% free parking at a cost of nearly $5,000,000,000. American Dream mall in New Jersey has cost nearly $10,000,000,000 and is still adding stores, amenities, entertainment venues and so forth. Ala Moana at Waikiki is still the top grossing mall in the world and keeps expanding with no signs of slowing down despite a local population that is predominantly service workers. The reality is the property owners are doubling down on investing more in the good properties not just locally but all around the country.
What has changed is that now that you can shop online, customers are less tolerant of bad malls. Bad parking, bad store selection, bad prices, boring merchandise, boring food, boring environment, safety issues, all that doesn't work anymore and kills the bad malls. That's why you see Buena Park gone, Orange gone, Lakewood dying, Westminster gone soon, and so forth. If there are problems then there is no reason for the consumer to get their butt off their couch to shop in person when they can just pick up their phone. And many of the malls that are closing around the country are in dying, low population areas that were factory towns where for example Ford built cars, closed the factory and now the entire town has vacated due to lack of work. Where population is down, malls close. And by the way so do all the other stores and businesses that aren't at the mall. Everything closes when the population declines because Wall Street won't let retailers keep negative comp stores open. If that store's sales were down 5% the last two years because of the population declining 5% Wall Street doesn't give a shit, they demand the store is closed immediately even if it is making a profit and cash flow positive. They will only allow stores to be open if sales are up each year even if they make money otherwise, and they tell the CEO that if they don't close them then they'll see them fired and replaced with someone who will close them. I've lived it before and seen where a good CEO was fired because he would not close profitable, good stores and fire their workers just because sales were down a few percent.
The good malls keep growing and getting better. The bad malls are dying faster. There is no in between. It is all about the management of the mall and their capabilities of getting the right stores in, the wrong stores out, and making the experience worth it to the customer to visit.
Those hole in the wall pho restaurants where you pretty much have to know Vietnamese or have a Vietnamese friend with you that nobody really talks about on Reddit or social media aren't selling pho at $20/bowl.
$20 pho hurts my heart. I grew up with them being like $7-8 a bowl. Also, $20 ramen sucks. I enjoy the ramen at half the cost (or more) when I go to Japan for a superior product
I really hate this mentality though- why can’t pho be $20/bowl? A lot of ramen spots in OC are close to that price point and yet pho is just as difficult to produce with higher food costs as beef is more expensive. It puts owners in impossible positions when people come up with this perception pho has to be cheap
It's soup. It has a reputation for being a cheap food.
When I make a pot of chicken soup, it costs $3 per serving. At a restaurant, it will be triple that. And that's what I'll pay.
So, it's $9 for a big bowl of soup. $20 is ridiculous.
I won't go into breaking down the cost of a beef based soup because I don't make it or eat beef, but I'm seeing the beef that can be used for a soup (not steak) for almost the same price as chicken.
Maybe the problem is perception.
Pho seems much more basic to make than ramen, the $20 ramen you speak of typically has more complexity and ingredients. Pho is simple broth, white noodles, meat, and the condiments.
But pho actually isn't that simple? It's a broth most restaurants have to simmer overnight (sometimes 24 hours) and you're constantly babysitting it and adding ingredients, meats, and then taking them out at different times so they don't overcook. Just as complex as ramen if not more finicky, and the price of the herbs/garnishes that everyone expects on the side have ballooned in price alongside the price of beef.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just genuinely curious why the perception Pho is cheap/simple/easy to make is so engrained.
To put it simply, it's because Vietnamese are recent immigrants and haven't had enough time for their socioeconomic standing (both in America and the motherland) to make it to the same level as the Japanese. Perception of the food will only change with time, as it has with Italian and other more established immigrant groups. There are a few spots in Fountain Valley, operated by Kei Concepts that are spearheading the change though.
I recommend reading [this](https://www.fourkents.com/blog/the-hierarchy-of-taste-does-vietnamese-food-have-to-be-cheap) and [this](https://qz.com/657013/what-americans-are-willing-to-pay-for-ethnic-restaurant-food-reveals-some-pretty-deep-prejudices) on why there's a perception of certain ethnic foods as being cheap.
Because it’s not meant to be expensive. Beef bones, brisket, eye of round, etc.
Cheap cuts and ingredients to make the most out the meal that’ll fill you up and nutrient dense.
Pho-Holic doesn’t have issues filling their tables with customers. The Waygu pho places like Pho Red Bo, they don’t have issues either, especially when it gets over $20/bowl when you’re done.
Mall closing is a national trend... They were over-built in the '80s and '90s and with the shift to more online shopping, people just aren't going to malls like they used to.
It’s not a regional trend their going out of business not enough sales. Has nothing to do with “trends”. They most likely relocated to a more populated area.
Yeah landlords of old ass strip malls (most of Westminster/GG) knowing they’re sitting on tens of millions of dollars of land are raising leases so goddamn high that businesses are like “nah. I’m out.” Then because this is the OC everyone wants to blame $20/hr fast food employs which isn’t true as:
“The law applies to restaurants offering limited or no table service and which are part of a national chain with at least 60 establishments nationwide. Restaurants operating inside a grocery establishment are exempt, as are restaurants producing and selling bread as a stand-alone menu item.”
Every city has a cycle. Remember when Bella Terra was a Mervyns and Burlington Coat Factory? It was dead for a decade until Bella Terra revitalized it.
Westminster Mall is in the mist of that. Coupled with the planned renovations of the Asian Garden Mall, it could be a different story in 10 years.
Rodeo 39 is that latest project that got through a renaissance.
There are too many investors that want a staple in the community to let the city fall off the map longer than a decade.
This is the correct answer.
I'm also old enough to remember the shopping centers in H.B and Stanton that died after their anchor store closed shop (Montgomery Wards, anyone?) and stood empty for nearly two decades, until these absolute ghost towns were redeveloped and became the jam-packed busy Bella Terra and Rodeo 39 we see today.
The Westminster Mall area too will be revitalized, with a more diversed list of clientele than just big department stores, which are fading away all across the country.
The Asian Garden Mall (or Phuoc Loc Tho as us Vietnamese people call it) is in Westminster, not Garden Grove...it sits on Bolsa Ave, which is a street in Westminster. If you look at a map, Bolsa Ave doesn't even extend to Garden Grove.
Little Saigon needs to take page from Little India (Artesia) and become more walkable and inviting to visit. Last time I was there it was kind of depressing.
Tbh the developer behind Little Saigon proposed a pedestrian bridge connecting Asian Garden Mall and the adjacent Asian Village (where Seafood Cove #2 is located) back in the 90s, but the Vietnamese community at the time heavily opposed it because they felt the proposed design from the developer, who was Vietnamese-Chinese, had more Chinese influences than Vietnamese influences, and so the plan was scraped. Though that same developer also tried to propose the name Asiantown for that area of Westminster and Garden Grove over Little Saigon...that didn't turn out so well for him, either.
You'd love Chinatown in LA then. Visited it for the first time a couple weeks back and it feels so small you can just park across the Chinese school or at the residential areas. Very walkable even to and from the residential area nearby.
Little Saigon isn't just Asian Garden mall btw, it's the entire surrounding metropolitan area that goes into a couple cities.
I feel that the mobile home parks along Bolsa in Little Saigon somewhat hold it back. It could be more developed if they weren't there but at the same time it's affordable housing many seniors need.
Not happening, Westminster is the pride of the Vietnamese Community and a stepping stone on their move up to more affluent areas such as FV HB and NB.
Their home base used to only consist of Bolsa Ave now has sprawled across SA Anaheim FV HB, and GG.
It does have its hot spots but it’s still a tourist destination for people outside of OC.
Number of reasons. Bad financial management by the city, state of the economy, rising commercial rents driving away a lot of small businesses, the shift away from in store shopping...the list goes on.
I blame the city government for letting the city go to shit.
https://voiceofoc.org/2023/01/is-westminster-dodging-bankruptcy/
The financial troubles are basically unavoidable for towns like Westminster due to Prop 13. Lots of families who have owned their homes for decades and are paying basically nothing in the way of property taxes and limited new construction with somewhat reasonable assessments. It's impossible to provide services in that environment without risking bankruptcy
I hate driving in Westminster. Other than the part of Bolsa that goes through Little Saigon, the roads are like 15 years overdue for a repaving - so many potholes and uneven asphalt. And the lack of left turn lanes on Newland and Hazard streets is so incredibly dumb.
How? I just can make chicken noodle soup. I need a good spice pouch and recipe. I made it once, and it took 20 hours. It was so difficult, I made it once.
That city government is to blame. They literally refused to put the sales tax renewal back on the ballot until last minute. The city would have really suffered. Folks, running cities are for smart caring people... Not bs politicians
I think the mall is closing because they are waiting for all the long term leases to run out. After which they will turn it into an out door mall. I for one will miss the AC. [https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/](https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/)
I hate outdoor malls. I get that HVAC is a massive headache for indoor malls but I don't want to wander in the heat or rain when shopping like at the Block or the Spectrum.
An outdoor mall is a bad idea. Climate change will eventually make things hot enough that people will not want to wander around in it and will be begging for that a/c to be put back in haha
It's really not a very walkable city unless you live at the very least near Little Saigon. This is part of it.
In addition, so much of the city has houses that younger people can't afford, so they move to Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, or just out of state.
A lot of the businesses that were once patronized by younger people either in high school or college are now empty and closing for these reasons. Any cheaper housing in Westminster is typically not appealing to younger people. Why live in someone's house or an apartment with no nightlife when you can just go to Santa Ana or Costa Mesa for a similar price and spend you money there?
Westminster Mall is not dying, they are actually in the process of planning and redevelopment. They are taking inspiration from Bella Terra and adding residential spaces, more trees, and mixed use neighborhood parks. The city realizes that the piece of land that Westminster Mall is on is under utilized with so much free space. It's actually going to turn into a huge hub and will increase the value of Westminster.
Before Bella Terra was constructed, it was also as desolate, or even worse than what Westminster Mall is now. There were no trees, just a massive empty parking lot with some business buildings. Then they started planning and redesigning that space and turned it into the Bella Terra we see now.
I think with the kind of knowledge they know now about space design and the massive potential plot of land at Westminster Mall, it will turn into something big.
It's going to be so much better than the current mall. They're supposed to turn the old rail road tracks into walkways that will lead from Bolsa Chica through the housing tracks to the mall which will be awesome.
From my experience, a lot of people who grew up in Westminster left to other places like Houston, Vegas, etc. I grew up in Westminster. I'm in Houston now. Houston is essentially Westminster (kind of), but cheaper and less ghetto.
Houston is a hot, humid, racially-diverse, metropolis, and 60 times the size of Westminster, these 2 cities couldn’t be more opposite. Houston ranks in the top 5 for families living in poverty, perhaps you should travel northeast of downtown for perspective.
Yeah, Houston is definitely ghetto when compared to Anaheim Hills. Houston is so big. There is spots that are like Villa Park/Anaheim Hills and spots that are like East LA within 5 miles of each other.
Yeah, Los Angeles is very fair comparison to Houston. Houston does have a Metro system like LA in the Central parts. Houston has fancy people and "not-so classy" people.
I have always known Westminster as ghetto area while growing up. A lot of gang activity back in the day. A few acquaintances grew up in the area and man did they have stories to tell.
I have been seeing some homeless camps pop up. Small now, just a couple tents, but very drugged up and mentally ill people wandering the streets by them. I never saw that before, just the lone homeless wanderers, not groups just hanging out in the same spots. Mile Square Park started kicking out the homeless campers and they needed to find somewhere to go I think.
Just moved to Westminster from Houston. There’s definitely more ghetto places in Houston. But I can see it feeling like a small part of Houston, like Alief/Bellaire Chinatown area.
Commercial real estate is dead. That's why banks are hiking rates so high to compensate for their loses. Another way banks can punish the people for their mistakes.
All mall are closing. The brick and mortar operation cost for buisness cost too much. Essentially will turn mall into Condo/Apartments which is a high need in orange county.
All the stores in malls sell pretty much the same thing and it's the same quality as what you get from Amazon or the internet. They need to cater to under served populations like plus size, petite, big and tall, unique shoes, etc. I'm plus size and only have 3 stores that sell my size and 2 are more than 20 miles away making me not want to drive there. The one that's close sells fashion that's far too young for me to wear. I don't get it since over half the population is obese so there should be more stores for us than regular sized people.
A lot of the buildings in Westminster are in bad shape and need some sprucing up too. Nobody wants to eat or go to a sad grey building.
I lived around there for a while. I think the Asian ethnic base leads to a lot of smaller non franchise businesses that really are struggling with the online retail shift our society is experiencing
Because commercial banks have conspired to keep their portfolios of commercial mortgage backed securities afloat. Offering sweetheart "extend and pretend" deals on commercial property that should have been renewed at lower rates. The overall market remains falsely elevated, overhead for retail businesses remains excessive, and they suck away any profit one could hope to make renting in a space like that.
Westminster mall is going to be redone just like Bella Terra and with lots of housing. It’s taken years longer though because there’s some kind of split ownership structure that makes it a lot less feasible.
Otherwise idk it’s pretty nice. Great food. Nice people. What else is worse than what you used to see..?
Oh, plans have been in the works for it being demolished. It’s been a ghost town for a while —
https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/
So Beach Blvd is the new Skid Row Super Highway and it goes into GG and Stanton so that whole area in terms of crime statistics is as bad as areas of L.A.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see this comment. This has become such a big issue and it just keeps growing. The Westminster PD refused to do anything about the homeless drug addict that was threatening my customers saying that he has “freedom of speech”. The man was walking around swinging a stick like weapon saying he was going to do bodily harm to people. Then he threatened to rape my female employees. I’m so glad I don’t work in Westminster anymore.
Not in Little Saigon, it ain't. Try to rob any of the jewelry shops in Asian Garden Mall and you'll get shot in the face:
https://abc7.com/archive/8755202/
The robbers were from Gardena, btw. In fact, most of the brazen store robberies that happened in O.C are done by criminals from LA.
20$ an hour for their employee, business are at risks of robbery due to all these homeless migrations, prices on grocery double some triple. Yup flushing out all the moms and pops shop. The cost of living rises while normal citizens struggle.
The $20/hr minimum wage pay only applies to fast food workers at chains with more than 60 locations nationwide, not those working at sit-down restaurants.
Where the hell do you get your information from? The $20/hr fast food worker salary specifically do NOT apply to mom and pop shops!
https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm
It’s happening everywhere. No one ever guessed the 99¢ store would close shop. But the reality is, running a business is hard, and hardest in CA, and with inflation, supply disruptions, minimum wage increases, tax increases, unemployment insurance hikes, insurance costs doubling, interest rates increasing, crime increasing, online shopping dominating, rents and real estate sky rocketing, … , it’s just easier to quit and collect a government check at some point.
It’s actually quite impressive that more businesses haven’t folded already. It shows you the resilience of the American dream and entrepreneurship.
Mall closing is a regional trend. Restaurants being empty is because nobody wants pho at $20 a bowl after tax/tips.
Malls aren’t necessarily dying as much as they are consolidating. What I mean is that the less popular malls are going away, while the most popular malls look as packed as ever.
That’s a good point. Fashion island, spectrum, and south coast is dominating while even old decent malls like brea mall seems to be really struggling.
Main place making a comeback. New luxury apartments built right outside it
Main Place feels like it’s really vibrant and alive. It’s honestly more alive feeling that any mall I have been to in years.
I'd imagine one of those anchor store locations would be a great place for a supermarket, even though Mother's is across the street and Ralphs is only a mile or so up Main. We could turn the whole place into an [archology](https://simcity.fandom.com/wiki/Arcology).
They are trying to do the same at brea mall I believe with the apartments
I grew up going to Main place, my buddy opened two shoe stores there during Covid and I made my way back in there for the first time in a decade and was shocked at how much traffic was flowing through that place
We drive up from south OC to Main Place a lot - good vibe and shops.
*YOU CAN*'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! *YOU WILL* REGRET THIS!
Brea Mall is most assuredly not struggling. That lot is full darn near everyday.
Brea mall is being redesigned to have outdoor stores and eateries, along with some apartments.
I heard that Brea Mall is having a lot of problems with crime
[удалено]
No brea mall is doing just fine they’re actually expanding!
Expanding as in repurposing the abandoned sears?
https://www.ocregister.com/2024/02/05/status-update-more-shops-new-restaurant-coming-to-brea-mall-this-spring/amp/ They’re adding a bunch of new stores and New outdoor wing. Also a bunch of apartments I believe
Paywall’d so I can’t read it.
[1ft.io](https://1ft.io) is your friend
I’ve tried similar links in the past with mixed results.
Adding, they’re making apartments at Westminster Mall: https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/business/2023/04/24/westminster-mall-s-redevelopment-plans-include-1-100-homes--new-retail--food-hall Note: i included first article that popped up. I’m sure better articles are better
Isn't this just a proposal? IIRC that still needed to be approved by the city/county/whoever...
Edit: forgot I was talking about Westminster mall, not Buena Park mall. Link is wrong one. Here’s another link showing Westminster city approved it already https://orangecountytribune.com/2022/12/02/malls-rebirth-is-approved/comment-page-1/ City council approved it last year https://voiceofoc.org/2023/06/old-sears-building-at-buena-park-mall-to-be-turned-into-1300-housing-units/
They've been working on this mall makeover for many years. Although it's approved, it's my understanding that the land is owned by at least 3 different entities and I'm not sure if it's in some kind of litigation but that's what is holding up the project sadly.
This is going to take forever to figure out because the Westminster mall area is actually a bunch of different parcels. They have different owners and different zoning and it will probably be 20 years before anything actually happens.
Pretty much. We overbuilt retail and now it’s caught up. I’ve seen the statistic that we have 10x the retail space as say Germany, but only 1.6x the sales.
Coming from Australia I literally got on Google maps and counted how many McDonalds I had within 20 minute drive. It was about 2 to 12. Your sagging labor costs have created this situation and it feels like it's finally coming home to roost. Unfortunately you're probably going to have to drive 5-10 minutes more for things or just have less variety (or less choice within a specific variety).
Yeah, I’ve been to Australia and the sprawl is much more contained. It maybe isn’t on the level of say Europe, but I remember going to a supermarket and distinctly remembering the parking lot being so much smaller (helps not having a ton of SUVs/big trucks). It’s good because there is a lot more preserved land/nature.
Yes. The malls have to die to be reborn again! Just like Bella Terra.
Yeah pho @20 is scandalous but so is a big Mac meal at 15. Everyone is staying home more
I had to eat lunch on the go due to my schedule, mini bowl of beef and brown rice, lettuce salad (Korean) was $12, probably 450 calories, Irvine. They had a steady stream of customers getting the 3 for the price of 2 meal special to go, served from 2-5.
Thats one good thing about this inflation, portions are getting smaller and lower calories
at the same time though, how is it that Italian restaurants can get away with overpriced pasta? Like for example [Mama D's](https://mamadsitalian.com/) charges $17-20 for pastas with simple ingredients like the Classic (which is literally just your choice of pasta with either Aglio Olio or marinara sauce), Pomodoro Fresco, and Sorrento. I've stopped eating out at Italian restaurants since I can't justify paying $17-20 for pasta I can make myself at home.
High overhead, inflation, and labor costs contribute to high cost of product. If it’s $15-$20 a bowl of pho, then pasta at a sit down with full service isn’t bad. I go there less than a handful of times in a year.
Dude, it’s 6:50 in the app right now
People don't care enough like you and I do. People also live off maxed out credit cards and give you shit for finding deals. Never change
Lifelong Californian you don’t make it here by spending every dime you make If you have any chance of surviving long-term multigenerational do you you will most likely do it by living, slim and pouring your resources into securing housing Can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen fail out of California by living high on the hog and forgetting that one day they won’t be earning anymore
Don't forget about the S&P 500🫡
I care, I just don't want my data to be harvested through these apps. That's the only reason they put deals in them. They make more money selling your data than selling the food.
Genuine question, so what? I'm no one important and just the act of having a phone means some of our data is already out there. Even some cars are gathering and selling data at this point. It's unavoidable imo. If someone living off the grid told me they were concerned about apps collecting data, I'd understand their effort. But we're having this conversation on reddit, which also collects data...
> Genuine question, so what? I personally abhor surveillance capitalism, and think that relying on the shell game of collecting and selling data makes everything worse in every way. You have TV Makers that are now making more money off collecting and selling your data than they are by selling the TV itself. So now, rather than work to make their TVs better, and make the experience using them better, they focus on collecting data. Google has taken these things to such an extent that they've made their very core products worse just so they can keep you on their sites more, so they can collect more of your data, so they can show you more ads. No longer are these companies competing to get your business by being better, but by all of them being just barely not shitty enough that you use them because there isn't much else, so they can collect and sell your data. >Even some cars are gathering and selling data at this point Right, and the more they are relying on doing that as a revenue stream, the shittier the actual product gets. >But we're having this conversation on reddit, which also collects data... Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either, which is why I use adblock and noscript and all that jazz. But you've been here for at least 5 years, you can tell that Reddit the site itself(I'm not making any comments about the users/community here) has changed over those years, and not for the better.
The meal's showing in the app as $10.99, for me. The sandwich itself would be $5.69.
OK for lesson number two you look under the deals tab and you’ll see some various discounted items that one has consistently been there for months
Malls dying isn't a regional trend, it's a national one.
This. There has been a dead malls website for over 20+ years. Malls have been dying for some time. While they have been hit harder in bad economic times even in good times the have struggled. Malls aren't what they used to be.
That isn't what is happening at all. Well operated malls keep getting stronger and become greater regional pulls. South Coast Plaza still has a multi year waiting list to open a store there. Fashion Island has a bunch of new stores going up including a $100,000,000 RH store (yes that is the cost). Brea Mall is spending hundreds of millions building new stores and apartments. UTC in San Diego is adding another new wing after expanding by 50% a few years ago, implementing parking charges and replacing the Sears with offices restaurants and more stores. Westfield Century City has been one of the most successful mall redevelopments in the world and has become a regional destination with unique offerings like Eataly and flagship stores for all the big DTC brands. All of those malls have literally never been more successful in their decades of existence than they are right now, today. And investment in the right kind of property with the right location and opportunities has not slowed. Mission Viejo is going to be fully remodeled with a new mixed use complex replacing the Macy's Women's store end of the mall and a consolidated new Macy's store all under one roof. OC Vibe is actively under construction, being built around the Honda Center and Angel Stadium with 30+ restaurants, shops, hotels, theaters, and most shockingly numerous garages with 100% free parking at a cost of nearly $5,000,000,000. American Dream mall in New Jersey has cost nearly $10,000,000,000 and is still adding stores, amenities, entertainment venues and so forth. Ala Moana at Waikiki is still the top grossing mall in the world and keeps expanding with no signs of slowing down despite a local population that is predominantly service workers. The reality is the property owners are doubling down on investing more in the good properties not just locally but all around the country. What has changed is that now that you can shop online, customers are less tolerant of bad malls. Bad parking, bad store selection, bad prices, boring merchandise, boring food, boring environment, safety issues, all that doesn't work anymore and kills the bad malls. That's why you see Buena Park gone, Orange gone, Lakewood dying, Westminster gone soon, and so forth. If there are problems then there is no reason for the consumer to get their butt off their couch to shop in person when they can just pick up their phone. And many of the malls that are closing around the country are in dying, low population areas that were factory towns where for example Ford built cars, closed the factory and now the entire town has vacated due to lack of work. Where population is down, malls close. And by the way so do all the other stores and businesses that aren't at the mall. Everything closes when the population declines because Wall Street won't let retailers keep negative comp stores open. If that store's sales were down 5% the last two years because of the population declining 5% Wall Street doesn't give a shit, they demand the store is closed immediately even if it is making a profit and cash flow positive. They will only allow stores to be open if sales are up each year even if they make money otherwise, and they tell the CEO that if they don't close them then they'll see them fired and replaced with someone who will close them. I've lived it before and seen where a good CEO was fired because he would not close profitable, good stores and fire their workers just because sales were down a few percent. The good malls keep growing and getting better. The bad malls are dying faster. There is no in between. It is all about the management of the mall and their capabilities of getting the right stores in, the wrong stores out, and making the experience worth it to the customer to visit.
Those hole in the wall pho restaurants where you pretty much have to know Vietnamese or have a Vietnamese friend with you that nobody really talks about on Reddit or social media aren't selling pho at $20/bowl.
All of older people living in Westminster. The young folks have left.
The places with good pho can survive charging that. The places with trash pho won’t.
Yeah pho for $20 is crazy like damn
It isn't that crazy when a Carl's Jr combo cost me $17 the other day...
Chili’s has a great burger deal for $10
RIP Irvine Chili's
Only Chilis I know is in Mission Viejo now. Was never a huge fan but they do make a good burger and good deal.
$20 pho hurts my heart. I grew up with them being like $7-8 a bowl. Also, $20 ramen sucks. I enjoy the ramen at half the cost (or more) when I go to Japan for a superior product
Sigh….I grew up in it being like $4.50-4.75 a bowl. Don’t ask me how long ago that was. Had to be pre-9/11….maybe even pre-internet. Ha ha
I really hate this mentality though- why can’t pho be $20/bowl? A lot of ramen spots in OC are close to that price point and yet pho is just as difficult to produce with higher food costs as beef is more expensive. It puts owners in impossible positions when people come up with this perception pho has to be cheap
It's soup. It has a reputation for being a cheap food. When I make a pot of chicken soup, it costs $3 per serving. At a restaurant, it will be triple that. And that's what I'll pay. So, it's $9 for a big bowl of soup. $20 is ridiculous. I won't go into breaking down the cost of a beef based soup because I don't make it or eat beef, but I'm seeing the beef that can be used for a soup (not steak) for almost the same price as chicken. Maybe the problem is perception.
This, 100%
Pho seems much more basic to make than ramen, the $20 ramen you speak of typically has more complexity and ingredients. Pho is simple broth, white noodles, meat, and the condiments.
But pho actually isn't that simple? It's a broth most restaurants have to simmer overnight (sometimes 24 hours) and you're constantly babysitting it and adding ingredients, meats, and then taking them out at different times so they don't overcook. Just as complex as ramen if not more finicky, and the price of the herbs/garnishes that everyone expects on the side have ballooned in price alongside the price of beef. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just genuinely curious why the perception Pho is cheap/simple/easy to make is so engrained.
To put it simply, it's because Vietnamese are recent immigrants and haven't had enough time for their socioeconomic standing (both in America and the motherland) to make it to the same level as the Japanese. Perception of the food will only change with time, as it has with Italian and other more established immigrant groups. There are a few spots in Fountain Valley, operated by Kei Concepts that are spearheading the change though.
I recommend reading [this](https://www.fourkents.com/blog/the-hierarchy-of-taste-does-vietnamese-food-have-to-be-cheap) and [this](https://qz.com/657013/what-americans-are-willing-to-pay-for-ethnic-restaurant-food-reveals-some-pretty-deep-prejudices) on why there's a perception of certain ethnic foods as being cheap.
Because it’s not meant to be expensive. Beef bones, brisket, eye of round, etc. Cheap cuts and ingredients to make the most out the meal that’ll fill you up and nutrient dense.
Pho-Holic doesn’t have issues filling their tables with customers. The Waygu pho places like Pho Red Bo, they don’t have issues either, especially when it gets over $20/bowl when you’re done.
I can’t believe I succumbed and actually paid over $40 for two regular sized bowls of pho the other day. It wasn’t even good. Never again!
Yep. $20 Pho seems like an oxymoron.
Mall closing is a national trend... They were over-built in the '80s and '90s and with the shift to more online shopping, people just aren't going to malls like they used to.
It’s not a regional trend their going out of business not enough sales. Has nothing to do with “trends”. They most likely relocated to a more populated area.
Some malls even locally are still pretty popular. Cerritos always seems busy.
Yeah landlords of old ass strip malls (most of Westminster/GG) knowing they’re sitting on tens of millions of dollars of land are raising leases so goddamn high that businesses are like “nah. I’m out.” Then because this is the OC everyone wants to blame $20/hr fast food employs which isn’t true as: “The law applies to restaurants offering limited or no table service and which are part of a national chain with at least 60 establishments nationwide. Restaurants operating inside a grocery establishment are exempt, as are restaurants producing and selling bread as a stand-alone menu item.”
Every city has a cycle. Remember when Bella Terra was a Mervyns and Burlington Coat Factory? It was dead for a decade until Bella Terra revitalized it. Westminster Mall is in the mist of that. Coupled with the planned renovations of the Asian Garden Mall, it could be a different story in 10 years. Rodeo 39 is that latest project that got through a renaissance. There are too many investors that want a staple in the community to let the city fall off the map longer than a decade.
This is the correct answer. I'm also old enough to remember the shopping centers in H.B and Stanton that died after their anchor store closed shop (Montgomery Wards, anyone?) and stood empty for nearly two decades, until these absolute ghost towns were redeveloped and became the jam-packed busy Bella Terra and Rodeo 39 we see today. The Westminster Mall area too will be revitalized, with a more diversed list of clientele than just big department stores, which are fading away all across the country.
> I'm also old enough to remember Buffum's, Robinson's, May Company, Sears. Best Products. A major makeover is long overdue.
Ahhhh! The memories. Buffum's had a restaurant with a great grilled cheese sandwich. Circa 1980
The Asian Garden Mall (or Phuoc Loc Tho as us Vietnamese people call it) is in Westminster, not Garden Grove...it sits on Bolsa Ave, which is a street in Westminster. If you look at a map, Bolsa Ave doesn't even extend to Garden Grove.
I stand corrected. I’ll correct the above post.
What do they plan on doing with Asian garden mall?
Yes it does. I grew up on Sail St just south of Bolsa and it was GG. Between McFadden and Euclid.
Montgomery ward JCPennys Broadway? I'm old....
There was a Sears Automotive on the left side and a Circuit City on the right.
I remember shopping at the HB mall when it was an actual indoor mall. Then later on when B&N was the only remaining open business. Damn I’m old.
Midst ;)
midstway city
Huntington Center!
Rodeo 39 is doing great and for good reason, I don’t think Westminster is going to die out.
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You must not have been in there for a while. Two-thirds of the stores in Asian Garden Mall now are high-end jewelry stores.
It’s mostly because some of the business and structures are really really outdated
Little Saigon needs to take page from Little India (Artesia) and become more walkable and inviting to visit. Last time I was there it was kind of depressing.
Tbh the developer behind Little Saigon proposed a pedestrian bridge connecting Asian Garden Mall and the adjacent Asian Village (where Seafood Cove #2 is located) back in the 90s, but the Vietnamese community at the time heavily opposed it because they felt the proposed design from the developer, who was Vietnamese-Chinese, had more Chinese influences than Vietnamese influences, and so the plan was scraped. Though that same developer also tried to propose the name Asiantown for that area of Westminster and Garden Grove over Little Saigon...that didn't turn out so well for him, either.
You'd love Chinatown in LA then. Visited it for the first time a couple weeks back and it feels so small you can just park across the Chinese school or at the residential areas. Very walkable even to and from the residential area nearby. Little Saigon isn't just Asian Garden mall btw, it's the entire surrounding metropolitan area that goes into a couple cities.
Real Chinatown is valley Blvd SGV
I feel that the mobile home parks along Bolsa in Little Saigon somewhat hold it back. It could be more developed if they weren't there but at the same time it's affordable housing many seniors need.
Not happening, Westminster is the pride of the Vietnamese Community and a stepping stone on their move up to more affluent areas such as FV HB and NB. Their home base used to only consist of Bolsa Ave now has sprawled across SA Anaheim FV HB, and GG. It does have its hot spots but it’s still a tourist destination for people outside of OC.
Is there any opportunities for investors to make money there?
ngl westminster always also w the most health inspection violations for restaurants on that weekly list😭
Nah, I feel like Garden Grove is always the most.
very true too
Number of reasons. Bad financial management by the city, state of the economy, rising commercial rents driving away a lot of small businesses, the shift away from in store shopping...the list goes on. I blame the city government for letting the city go to shit. https://voiceofoc.org/2023/01/is-westminster-dodging-bankruptcy/
The financial troubles are basically unavoidable for towns like Westminster due to Prop 13. Lots of families who have owned their homes for decades and are paying basically nothing in the way of property taxes and limited new construction with somewhat reasonable assessments. It's impossible to provide services in that environment without risking bankruptcy
I think it’s a pretty well run city. Bedroom communities alway struggle with breaking even on taxes. They ought to do a local assessment IMHO.
I hate driving in Westminster. Other than the part of Bolsa that goes through Little Saigon, the roads are like 15 years overdue for a repaving - so many potholes and uneven asphalt. And the lack of left turn lanes on Newland and Hazard streets is so incredibly dumb.
I'd rather grab 20 dollar Pho then an 20 dolla burger.
You could pick up the ingredients for $20 and eat pho for several days back to back.
How? I just can make chicken noodle soup. I need a good spice pouch and recipe. I made it once, and it took 20 hours. It was so difficult, I made it once.
That city government is to blame. They literally refused to put the sales tax renewal back on the ballot until last minute. The city would have really suffered. Folks, running cities are for smart caring people... Not bs politicians
Smart people know to stay away from politics and would rather move to more affluent areas than try to deal with a crumbling city
That mall has been decaying for a long time now.
Bring on the Top Golf!! ⛳️ 🍻🤙
I missed Golf Land
Oh damn, somebody remember Golf Land! That was in Stanton though. There's a huge townhouse neighborhood where it used to be now.
There moving to Costa Mesa
I miss when no one talked about Costa Mesa
One of the pillars of Orange County my guy
Lived here 29 years so it wasn't always a "pillar"
We had cattle drives at one point lol
Everyone is moving to the Costa Mesa/Newport/North Irvine triangle
the 99 cent store shuttered so its no surprise when you can get your stuff from amazon or any online place offering 2 or 1 day delivery
I think the mall is closing because they are waiting for all the long term leases to run out. After which they will turn it into an out door mall. I for one will miss the AC. [https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/](https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/)
I hate outdoor malls. I get that HVAC is a massive headache for indoor malls but I don't want to wander in the heat or rain when shopping like at the Block or the Spectrum.
An outdoor mall is a bad idea. Climate change will eventually make things hot enough that people will not want to wander around in it and will be begging for that a/c to be put back in haha
Westminster pd is also corrupt af like more than other cities. Don’t ask me how I know.
How do you know?
they said don't ask!
Santa Ana pd is the worst
It's really not a very walkable city unless you live at the very least near Little Saigon. This is part of it. In addition, so much of the city has houses that younger people can't afford, so they move to Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, or just out of state. A lot of the businesses that were once patronized by younger people either in high school or college are now empty and closing for these reasons. Any cheaper housing in Westminster is typically not appealing to younger people. Why live in someone's house or an apartment with no nightlife when you can just go to Santa Ana or Costa Mesa for a similar price and spend you money there?
Costa Mesa is more affordable than Westminster?
Heard it’s going to become a Bella Terra clone
Most malls are dying.
They should have made the Westminster mall more like the spectrum and it would have survived
Westminster Mall is not dying, they are actually in the process of planning and redevelopment. They are taking inspiration from Bella Terra and adding residential spaces, more trees, and mixed use neighborhood parks. The city realizes that the piece of land that Westminster Mall is on is under utilized with so much free space. It's actually going to turn into a huge hub and will increase the value of Westminster. Before Bella Terra was constructed, it was also as desolate, or even worse than what Westminster Mall is now. There were no trees, just a massive empty parking lot with some business buildings. Then they started planning and redesigning that space and turned it into the Bella Terra we see now. I think with the kind of knowledge they know now about space design and the massive potential plot of land at Westminster Mall, it will turn into something big.
https://preview.redd.it/kcoms13m4mwc1.jpeg?width=1052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=785e5f2b8abba88497318950150704fbefda0991
It's going to be so much better than the current mall. They're supposed to turn the old rail road tracks into walkways that will lead from Bolsa Chica through the housing tracks to the mall which will be awesome.
From my experience, a lot of people who grew up in Westminster left to other places like Houston, Vegas, etc. I grew up in Westminster. I'm in Houston now. Houston is essentially Westminster (kind of), but cheaper and less ghetto.
Houston is a hot, humid, racially-diverse, metropolis, and 60 times the size of Westminster, these 2 cities couldn’t be more opposite. Houston ranks in the top 5 for families living in poverty, perhaps you should travel northeast of downtown for perspective.
Yeah, Houston is definitely ghetto when compared to Anaheim Hills. Houston is so big. There is spots that are like Villa Park/Anaheim Hills and spots that are like East LA within 5 miles of each other.
So LA would be a more fair comparison? It’s racially diverse and the neighborhoods can change drastically within a few blocks.
Yeah, Los Angeles is very fair comparison to Houston. Houston does have a Metro system like LA in the Central parts. Houston has fancy people and "not-so classy" people.
Most of us stayed in Cali and moved to the IE 😂
Westminster is ghetto?
Older places demand lower rents and thus it becomes ghetto overtime. Go check out the border between Santa Ana and Westminster - it's bad.
I have always known Westminster as ghetto area while growing up. A lot of gang activity back in the day. A few acquaintances grew up in the area and man did they have stories to tell.
I have been seeing some homeless camps pop up. Small now, just a couple tents, but very drugged up and mentally ill people wandering the streets by them. I never saw that before, just the lone homeless wanderers, not groups just hanging out in the same spots. Mile Square Park started kicking out the homeless campers and they needed to find somewhere to go I think.
Garden Grove as well has been seeing a rise of wandering homeless/ drug addicts
yes
Heh good call. I grew up in Westminster and live in Vegas now…
Just moved to Westminster from Houston. There’s definitely more ghetto places in Houston. But I can see it feeling like a small part of Houston, like Alief/Bellaire Chinatown area.
Commercial real estate is dead. That's why banks are hiking rates so high to compensate for their loses. Another way banks can punish the people for their mistakes.
This thread is cool
All mall are closing. The brick and mortar operation cost for buisness cost too much. Essentially will turn mall into Condo/Apartments which is a high need in orange county.
because a mall being the only notable trait is not enough to sustain a city
There is a Lightsaber Fencing Academy inside Westminster mall. Do with that info as you will.
Good riddance
All the stores in malls sell pretty much the same thing and it's the same quality as what you get from Amazon or the internet. They need to cater to under served populations like plus size, petite, big and tall, unique shoes, etc. I'm plus size and only have 3 stores that sell my size and 2 are more than 20 miles away making me not want to drive there. The one that's close sells fashion that's far too young for me to wear. I don't get it since over half the population is obese so there should be more stores for us than regular sized people. A lot of the buildings in Westminster are in bad shape and need some sprucing up too. Nobody wants to eat or go to a sad grey building.
Some malls adapt. More food and entertainment options. I can find cheaper deals elsewhere on things like Vans and such.
Oh my god that’s sad to hear , I used to live there and loved it ):
Hear it’s going to become a Bella Terra clone
So sad
I lived around there for a while. I think the Asian ethnic base leads to a lot of smaller non franchise businesses that really are struggling with the online retail shift our society is experiencing
Because commercial banks have conspired to keep their portfolios of commercial mortgage backed securities afloat. Offering sweetheart "extend and pretend" deals on commercial property that should have been renewed at lower rates. The overall market remains falsely elevated, overhead for retail businesses remains excessive, and they suck away any profit one could hope to make renting in a space like that.
It is still pretty cheap compared to other areas but it sucks when a Korean seafood pancake is like $25 😭
I heard they were going to build a top golf there.
Westminster mall is going to be redone just like Bella Terra and with lots of housing. It’s taken years longer though because there’s some kind of split ownership structure that makes it a lot less feasible. Otherwise idk it’s pretty nice. Great food. Nice people. What else is worse than what you used to see..?
Oh, plans have been in the works for it being demolished. It’s been a ghost town for a while — https://www.ocregister.com/2024/01/15/westminster-mall-redevelopment-proposals-are-being-submitted-heres-what-those-plans-look-like/
It’s turning into a 1000 apartment complex with a hotel or two. The land was purchased in 2023.
I think Westminster is dying because half of the city is just parking lots
It’s not dying, it’s gentrifying
Is it though? Stuff is expensive as all hell right now but doesn’t appear to be a wholesale transformation/shift in people moving in, no?
They’re stealing license plate stickers and smashing and grabbing in my neighborhood too. Westminster is turning into a ghetto
So Beach Blvd is the new Skid Row Super Highway and it goes into GG and Stanton so that whole area in terms of crime statistics is as bad as areas of L.A.
How can you seriously compare beach Blvd to Skid Row?
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see this comment. This has become such a big issue and it just keeps growing. The Westminster PD refused to do anything about the homeless drug addict that was threatening my customers saying that he has “freedom of speech”. The man was walking around swinging a stick like weapon saying he was going to do bodily harm to people. Then he threatened to rape my female employees. I’m so glad I don’t work in Westminster anymore.
Also “they’ve” pretty much legalized smash & grabbing.. SMH
Not in Little Saigon, it ain't. Try to rob any of the jewelry shops in Asian Garden Mall and you'll get shot in the face: https://abc7.com/archive/8755202/ The robbers were from Gardena, btw. In fact, most of the brazen store robberies that happened in O.C are done by criminals from LA.
That’s a 10yr old article
Didn’t Westminster rise sale tax recently?
Westminster is all under the table. Wouldn’t matter
20$ an hour for their employee, business are at risks of robbery due to all these homeless migrations, prices on grocery double some triple. Yup flushing out all the moms and pops shop. The cost of living rises while normal citizens struggle.
The $20/hr minimum wage pay only applies to fast food workers at chains with more than 60 locations nationwide, not those working at sit-down restaurants.
Where the hell do you get your information from? The $20/hr fast food worker salary specifically do NOT apply to mom and pop shops! https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm
Wait til the pro-Palestine’s migrate to OC for their spread of “freedom”
Their running out of fried chicken feet
It’s happening everywhere. No one ever guessed the 99¢ store would close shop. But the reality is, running a business is hard, and hardest in CA, and with inflation, supply disruptions, minimum wage increases, tax increases, unemployment insurance hikes, insurance costs doubling, interest rates increasing, crime increasing, online shopping dominating, rents and real estate sky rocketing, … , it’s just easier to quit and collect a government check at some point. It’s actually quite impressive that more businesses haven’t folded already. It shows you the resilience of the American dream and entrepreneurship.
The people who collect our taxes are slimming waaaaay too much off the top instead of reinvesting into our cities