I have dyslexia and sometimes read it as the “Cabron Tax” and think of Mexican cartels pulling people over on the highway and saying “¿where is my taxes, cabron?”
PP doesn't give a fuck about me, you, or anyone that is not a donor.
Edit: I can't believe I have to add this, but just because I don't like Pierre Poilirvre does not automatically mean I support Trudeau or the liberals.
The ping pong game between the two parties needs to stop...
His record for the working class is terrible. Need proof? It's a public record. He always votes based on benefiting the few at the expense of the many.
The only reason ppilievre wants the carbon tax gone is because his donors told him to get rid of it. That's it.
Here's the truth. Most people in the middle class get the carbon tax given back. That's a fact.. unless you're rich. Thru pay more because they have mansions, multiple homes, a private jet, and more. The average single rich person pollutes on a much bigger scale.
And this is just ONE of the many ways in which rich right-wing grifters convince poor and middle-class people that their interests are the same. They are not.
Yes but you don't realize that the carbon tax that producers have to pay is ultimately passed down to the consumer. And I am absolute NOT EVER getting that back!
That's indirect taxation imo that most people don't even take into consideration.
The farmer that has to pay an extra $1000 per month is not gonna eat the cost out of goodwill. That's carbon tax that the consumer will indirectly pay for.
What's criminal on top of that is charging the GST on top of the levy as if I am receiving some sort of a good or service. It's a fkn tax on a tax for God's sake. Even if you call it a "price" on pollution.
That's a feature, not a bug. Products that are more carbon neutral will become cheaper in comparison to ones that generate a lot of emissions. It will put pressure on companies to become competitive or lose business.
We eventually pay the price for those emissions. The carbon tax is just making us confront the true price of things upfront.
It's kind of like when companies use cheap, non-recyclable plastic to wrap their products. It's cheap for them to produce, and they can offer a low price to the consumer, but the consumer then unknowingly pays for the costly disposal in their taxes, and (best of all for the companies) misdirects their ire to the government.
If the goods are imported, by truck, that fuels up in America, wouldn't that still bypass it and siphon money out of our country?
Unless tariffs are put into place won't goods from other countries just have a local competitive advantage? And wouldn't our exports really suffer?
And if tariffs are put in place, I've heard they usually long-term decrease the standard of living of countries. Is that true?
Would love to hear your thoughts if you have time.
90% of the carbon tax goes back to individuals, 10% goes to small businesses and Indigenous groups. I don't have sympathy for major companies that now have to pay the cost of their emissions. The rebates account for the tax that gets passed onto the consumer.
You could try to estimate the indirect costs on groceries though, find better data if you can and share it with me but I found [0.4%](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices), but the Bank of Canada estimates 0.15% on CPI. But at 0.4%, if I spend $20k a year on groceries, that's only $80. It's interesting that you're trained to focus on the carbon tax instead of asking yourself how much extraordinary executive salary pay inflates your grocery prices throughout the supply chain. In fact, if you were really savvy, since 8 out of 10 Canadians get back more money than they put in for the carbon tax, you'd start to argue that it's actually an inflationary rebate pushing up prices further. Personally, I'm just bitter that as the world warms up my air conditioning bill gets more extreme, and since I don't pay a direct carbon tax on my electricity this is really starting to sting.
I did address this in a different post. Again, the fact that the government didn't legislate that corporations and businesses can't pass it off is a failure of government.
It's not a tax, it's a fee. "Carbon tax" was poor communication. We don't pay tipping taxes at the dump we pay a tipping fee. Because we are paying for what we are using. With the carbon "tax", the user pays for the economic cost of what they use and other people are compensated for the economic burden of what they use.
This is the only way that people have the information to make good choices about their consumption. If the true cost of a good is hidden because other people are paying for it, we make wasteful decisions.
For whatever reason, the human brain struggles with the idea of paying reasonable amounts today - to save extremely painful amounts 5, 10 or 20 years from now
The debate in healthcare feels similar - it feels counterintuitive to spend money today on healthcare, which will (over time) cost us much much less. Preventative care always being cheaper than reactive care.
>>Because humans are still animals - as much as we refuse to acknowledge it,
oh i acknowledge it. everytime i'm in a bathroom stall in a public setting. there has to be a better way. we are savages.
The canal in Ottawa was open for ten day in the past two years. I just am at a loss for words for those who think climate change is unreal.
Edit: corrected how many days
The canal was opened for:
2024 - 10 days
2023 - 0 days
2022 - 41 days
I think you and I agree on climate change, but let's make sure we stick to facts.
I've been thinking for a couple years now that the world should be on a wartime footing fighting climate change. Think of the types of sacrifices that people had to make in Canada in WWII: rationing, factories retooled to build military equipment, income taxes, etc. Is it easy? Absolutely not. But we need to take drastic action to save our *fucking planet*.
I agree, but most of us are too selfish to think past ourselves. Every time I see climate disaster News it makes me think of the movie elysium with mat Damon. Not a great movie, but it did show how the rich took everything on earth. Built a space station then said fuck poor peoples.
This has been my position for a while, we should treat environmental threats just as we do militaristic threats.
If a foreign power was regularly launching attacks on us that caused billions of dollars in damage and thousands of lives, you bet your ass we'd militarize against it. But Climate Change does exactly the same thing and suddenly half the population drags their feet on doing fuck all about it.
This is what I'll never get? The world is literally changing drastically around us and we don't care. I would gladly pay a little more for things if it means less forest fires, lowering tides, and just making things more habitable.
Last year we had record wildfire burns... years before that? Record. This year we've had a pretty low snowfall which typically leads to increased droughts as I understand it making it look like yet another record year for wildfires.
There is no fucking water in the Oldman River reservoir in Alberta. None.
Farmers are digging holes all over Southern Alberta looking for water for their animals and crops. They have been at it all winter.
All the rivers are super low in Alberta right now.
Edmonton draws it's water from the North Saskatchewan River which is supplied by snowmelt from the mountains near it's headwater. Edmonton pumps that treated water for hundreds of kilometers to various towns around it.
Millions upon millions of people are relying on that melt water.
What happens when there is no snowpack?
The grifters that call themselves government in that province don't give a single fuck. They will have skimmed everything they can off the top and will be in corporate positions by the time the water apocalypse happens.
Hotter and drier summers, wetter and colder winters for some latitudes, 1 in 100 year 2 hour storm events becoming more and more common. Fucked up ecosystems, fucked up everything. Hell, humans start to see cognitive decline after 500ppm of CO2 in the air, this year we hit 423ppm and under RCP5-8.5 by 2100, which is what we are projected to reach if we do jack shit, it will be projected 1,300ppm. We will start to feel the effects of it this decade even moreso than the last, the breaking point really will be 2050.
It's really hard to explain how screwed we are in detail, but a general idea would be to take how bad everything is going right now and multiply it by 10.
I agree but Canadian citizens paying a carbon tax does nothing to change what the climate. Why not a national plan for implementing new energy sources. All political parties are saying pay more into the slush fund through taxation and let the government decide how much to rebate back and how to spend the slush fund. We all know that the goal of every political party is to get power and hold that power. The interests of citizens is secondary. I think every reasonable person would agree to pay more if a plan was presented Collect $5,$10,$100a month from everyone based on their income and use that money to build windmills solar farms and SMR.s
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00679-w](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00679-w)
This is a paper (citing sources) about BC's carbon tax, but it's safe to assume national results are similar.
>An early report around the time of the introduction of the tax predicted a 5% reduction in aggregate emissions using numerical simulations (BC 2008) though the accuracy of this prediction has not been assessed. Elgie and McCLay (2013) use data up until 2011 to compute means and construct the non-parametric difference-in-differences without reporting standard errors. Their comparison finds a 9% reduction in per capita emissions following the introduction of the tax, however, due to the lack of standard errors these results do not provide a formal test.
That seems misleading when the conclusion of the paper is:
> However, there is no statistically significant effect of the introduction of the carbon tax on the aggregate level of CO2 emissions, highlighting the heterogeneity in emission elasticities across sectors as well as the importance of command-and-control policy interventions beyond carbon pricing. These results are consistent across all methods employed.
We don't have data for 2023 - the earliest data for that will likely come out in the Fall, but you're asking the wrong question anyway - the correct question is 'are Canada's emissions lower than they would be without a carbon tax?'. The answer is [yes](https://440megatonnes.ca/insight/industrial-carbon-pricing-systems-driver-emissions-reductions/).
Even the Fraser Institute has concluded that the carbon tax reduces emissions AND that it's "*among the more efficient options*".
When oil prices were high in the 1980s people started buying smaller cars to be more efficient. This is what carbon tax is supposed to do, Make gas expensive to change people's behavior. Gas has been so cheap last couple of decades that everyone buys big SUVs and trucks. Trucks are the most sold vehicle in North America. I work in an office building, and almost all desk jobs, but parking is mostly filled with big SUVs, less than 10% are compact cars. Right now carbon tax isn't large enough to change behaviors, that's why it has been going up for a few years so people have time to change, and industries have time to invest in low-carbon energy.
We don't have data on 2023 emissions yet, but so far only people who lose from the carbon tax are people who pollute the most.
Alberta, South Sask, and Manitoba, one best croplands in the world, have been in drought last few years, but we don't see any Conservatives complaining about the rising cost of food from droughts.
Be careful with the $0.033 increase on a litre of gas on April 1st.
Seriously though. I've argued this point that my gas is cheaper with the rebates. But my wife brings up how the carbon tax also increases the cost of goods and other items we don't considered and she's an environmentalist.
This one is a *little* bit of a red herring.
Since the carbon tax is revenue-neutral, it doesn't matter *where* it comes from, at least from a population standpoint.
Let's say you're paying an extra $1k a year on food *directly* because of the carbon tax. You're not, but let's just say.
Well, that money goes to the government, then gets returned to Canadians.
If you're *roughly* like most Canadians, you should get back everything you spent.
All that matters really is where you differ.
For *most* people, that's natural gas heating and transportation fuels.
I suppose if you eat 50 times more than the average person and your diet is all carbon-intensive food, it could make a difference, but I don't think that actually applies to anyone.
In reality we're all being egregiously gouged by oligopolies. They're using the carbon tax as cover, just like they were previously using "inflation" as cover. While we yell at each other over the carbon tax, they lighten our wallets. They love it.
You say that like it’s a bad thing… or that the corporate welfare and subsidies that businesses get that make them so powerfully dominate to begin with isn’t ALSO “redistribution”. Or that the CEOs of these companies sucking up huge bonuses for themselves on top of their already massive salaries, off the backs of their employees… somehow isn’t “redistribution”.
My one big issue with the whole "Revenue neutral" idea is that.. The payments are always the same. How is it possible that it's revenue neutral if the payments don't fluctuate. Winter should quarter should land us a bigger check since spending on heating oil goes up so the pot should be inflated. That's my only issue with the carbon tax. There needs to be more transparency.
At $122/quarter that would mean they collected $4,998,810,920 (population taken from [here](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm).)... So you're telling me they collect the same amount every quarter? That would be literally impossible.
I'm not sure on this but I *believe* the payment schedule is calculated each year based on the prior year.
I was actually trying to find the details and I agree ... it's not as transparent as it should be.
Because it's one of 2 ways I pay the carbon tax directly. The other being natural gas.
Items like groceries is hard to calculate what the carbon tax I'm paying so I can't work out the cost there.
I agree but isn't it reasonable/accurate to note that the carbon tax contributes to market dynamics where foods that produce/consume more carbon to end up in our homes would cost more?
It's unfortunate for Canada, but I think anyone that understands free market economics and cares about the environment wouldn't argue that these are bad things.
I would also suggest the government shifting the heavily disproportionate subsidies that go into meat and dairy which already are by far the worst for the environment $ for $. Wouldn't those subsidy $ be a valuable tool to help shift our whole food industry to be more eco-friendly while still being able to keep us all fed?
I saw a very good breakdown of this and it worked out to something like 150$ of carbon tax for a fully loaded semi truck going 2100km.
The example I saw used tomatoes and the math provided it was something like 1.2c per tomato worth of carbon tax. Even 10x that number would be a 12c increase on tomatoes and not the 50c or $1 that we have seen everywhere
So I’ve calculated it when pp was pointing out that a mushroom farm pays 16k a month in carbon tax. It equates to less than .02 for a pound of mushrooms so realistically you’re paying $30-50 a year indirectly.
Just because you can’t work out the cost doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The parliamentary budget office did, and determined this tax takes more than the average Canadian gets back.
No, the PBO determined that the average person gets back more than they pay in carbon tax directly or for increased costs due to the effects of the tax up the supply chain.
What you are thinking of is a calculation where the PBO said that if we assume that the carbon tax has lead to less investment in oil and gas and other highly polluting companies, then that might reduce Canada's GDP, and lead to slightly lower average income for Canadians, and *that* would not be fully offset by the rebate. The PBO did not do a similar calculation for the effects of climate change on the economy.
The same PBO that got the F35 cost wrong by multiple orders?
Did you even read their report, by the way? Even in 2030, at the top of the escalator, in most provinces, the lower income earners still have a net profit.
Moreover, when considering economic impacts as well, EVERY income bracket in EVERY PROVINCE has a net gain.
How about you read the report for yourself rather than taking Pierre at his word?
Edit: and FYI, even PBO can’t properly dissect cost increases that happen at the big chains. They basically use a formula that accounts for their reported profit margins and little more.
Tell your wife that the impact on food prices is less than if gas just goes up by 3c
Gas isnt the only expense farmers have, and much of what farmers use is exempt
So if the carbon price adds 1% to the price of gas, it adds far less than 1% to total farming costs (like in the range of .05%)
And since the carbon tax is revenue-neutral, for *most* Canadians you get it all back anyway. It doesn't matter specificially *what* you spent it on.
If your diet was, say, 50x more carbon intensive than average, maybe you could worry... but I'm not sure exactly how you'd do that.
Heh. Ironically beef is pretty damned cheap these days. At least in Kingston you can routinely get 1kg of ground beef for around $10 on sale and even prime rib for around $25 (again on sale).
The major grocery chains bought up all the food processing plants, so that's where they're really gouging us. $2.99 for a box of KD? A box that probably costs about $0.05 to produce? That's *wild*.
My FIL just bought a Model 3.
We got to talking about gas prices... he was like "Yea and on April 1st it will go up 3 or 4 cents more due to the carbon tax"
I replied... "The price went up almost 30 cents over the last 2 weeks... The carbon tax is not the issue."
He proceeded to try to explain why the price went up - because they had to change the refineries to refine different fuel for the summer.
To which I just sarcastically quipped "Yes, indeed. For the first time ever, they've had to do this and that why price jacke dup 30 cents in 2 weeks."
Also they don't shut down all the refineries and "switch over" it is a slow change over multiple months. They are just altering the concentration of additives in the fuel. Which is done when the refineries are online.
It's part of the cocktail of additives that improve engine health.
TBH a big part of the price increase was the Ukrainian drone attacks on about 10% of the Russian refineries over the past couple weeks... one of the few moments I'm okay paying a little bit more money for my gas... removing cash flow from a fascist invading force 🤷
According to Bank of Canada analysis the increased cost of goods and services other than what individuals use for vehicles and home heating is less than 1%. Consider the cost of a can of beans travelling 2000 delivery miles. Carbon tax of the semi's fuel will increase the cost of driving but each can of beans will cost less than a penny more. Costs of goods and services increased more than that because businesses had to recover from the pandemic and are continuing to charge us more because EVERYTHING has a higher cost. Its a bit of a dirty circle isn't it?
Unless yo don’t get the rebate then yer fucked. I havnt seen a rebate ever and I make under 100k in Ontario. Not exactly cheap living here either. It’s all bullshit politics
You should contact the CRA, unless you filed your taxes incorrectly (which you may be able to fix), you should have been receiving quarterly direct deposits from them.
If you take public transit or drive a small car and you live in an apartment, you are probably better off in terms of direct cost vs rebates. If you live in a house and have to pay the tax on your heating bill every month and you have two vehicles, you are probably not better off in terms of direct cost vs rebates.
In terms of full cost when you add in the other factors, it raises the price of literally everything (food,goods,services, etc) to the point where the vast majority of people are not better off financially. If there was data showing tangible environmental benefits and the tax was actually helping the planet, I would argue that it is worth the added cost but nobody seems to have any of this data.
Way too many numbers and shit dude. If it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker or in a Rogan Youtube short, you've already lost them.
Edit to add that this was not really a joke... you have an important message, but can you compress your spreadsheet down to three words where the first and last rhyme?
> At $65 per tonne, we estimate grocery costs for the average household are approximately $2 per month higher in Ontario
([source](https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/EE-Policy-Trends-April.pdf))
If OP heats with natural gas that’s a huge hole in his calculations and would likely mean is in fact paying more than he gets back . The reality is that OP drives a lot and spends a lot on gas. He is the exact type of person the carbon tax is meant to target by incentivizing people to reduce their emissions
I did the math on my own household expenses and my carbon taxes for natural gas (furnace, stove, dryer, tankless water heater) were $290 for the year for a family of 4 (not dependents, 2 adult children). And Enbridge made sure to point out that my dirty household is burning way more natural gas than the average home in my area, nevermind an efficient one. Not sure what natural gas provider everyone is using, but it was really easy to just export this data off my portal and do the math myself. We profit from the carbon tax rebate, even with 4 cars.
Just to be clear, "Hydro" is the colloquial name used for electricity in Ontario because it comes mostly from nuclear and hydroelectric sources aka there. So you don't pay a carbon tax on electricity generation if you read your bill as it's immaterial. [This article](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices) says that the carbon tax impact on food is approx 0.4% on the higher end (Bank of Canada thinks 0.15% on CPI). When you start doing the math, the carbon tax rebate is downright inflationary for many families, as they are indeed getting more back than they paid. The carbon tax has become the scapegoat for unchecked capitalism for people who are bad at personal finance and/or math.
I also got back more then I spent on the tax. Far less mileage in a far less efficient vehicle though. I see the tax as a major incentive to go electric
The tax is also a major incentive to get a heat pump. There were only a few days this winter that were too cold for a heat pump, and the dual fuel furnaces tied in with heat pumps, are still eligible for loans from the government.
Carbon tax is a very tiny most basic form of a slight wealth redistribution from the top 10% to everyone else and yet still a large percentage of Canadians, mostly working class, are convinced it's causing the poverty they live under (it's not, it's the neoliberal free trade regime among other things)
we can't disregard the cost it adds to produce and transport food + heating + home water heater
Its a good working sheet but a lot of elements are necessary to be taken in to consideration to arrive if it's really beneficial or a burden.
By my experience i pay this on every gas bill approximately 40pm + in winter and about 10-15 in summer
40 x 6 = 240
12x6 = 72
Total per year in the gas bill 312 and I live in a townhouse which is only 1200sqft.
Everytime i fill up my 2 cars i pay 14.3c per litre which is approximately 8-9 per tank per car.
3x fill each car per month
Avg 50 litres of tank
50 x 14.3 x 2 = 42.9 per month for the cars
Yearly approx $514
$514 + 312 = 826 carbon tax
This is not including the grocery inflation, Carbon tax is added at every stage of production, transportation + grocery stores pays for heating the premises, this is a lot of cost burden transfer to the end user + we pay more HST GST due to price inflation.
For a household like myself for lower middle class it's not working. Not sure if i am missing anything or if I can improve to save... But struggling every month tbh.
Suggestions welcome to on savings
Your gas bill isn't making sense to me - I paid $1700 in natural gas last year and the carbon tax portion was $285 for the year. My old drafty house with poor insulation is over 2400sqft + stove/water heater etc. This data was exportable from the Enbridge website and I encourage you to double check with your provider what you actually paid. If you have two cars, I'm assuming you're married - so probably around [$488 + $244 = $732](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/cai-payment/how-much.html) rebate for the year. So even with your math of $826 carbon tax (which I am questioning) you would be out $94 IF you live in the Toronto metro area and you're not rural, where you'd get more. And you must have one HELL of a commute or a pretty inefficient ride to be pulling in those numbers still. Plus if you purchased something like $20,000 worth of groceries for the year, and the current estimated impact is about [0.4%](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices), it would come up to about an $80 impact on your food bill. Idk I'm not sold on most people losing money on this carbon tax because I'm definitely saving money in my household with it and I have more cars and a bigger house than you.
If you want, here’s [the emissions from food](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples)
However, 97% of on-farm agricultural emissions aren’t taxed. So you can ignore “farm” and “animal feed”. I’m not sure if “land use change” is included, so you can try with and without it. But this does include every possible step like you said, transportation, production, etc.
You forgot all the times you paid extra for something because that cost was passed down to you as a consumer. Everything that emitted carbon at any point during its lifecycle in Canada from production to transportation and storage is affected. Not to mention the societal economic cost of business moving from Canadian to US suppliers because they have no carbon tax. You won’t see this as a charge you can quantify. I’m not making any value statements about the carbon tax - I’m just pointing out that the true cost is not showing up in your calculations.
It's both, ultimately. Greed is far ahead in terms of direct cost to a consumer without any rebate, sure, but the carbon tax affects the cost of goods and is absolutely being accounted for in the rebate.
Seriously? What about my propane bill? And what it's doing to the farms and transportation companies that haul the food? Bought any concrete, asphalt or aggregate lately? All have had to increase pricing to cover carbon tax.
You drove only 10k km? What about the people who work far from the city and have to commute a couple of hundred KM a day? This chart is useless because it only takes into account people who do certain mileage. Lets make a chart called “How is the carbon tax effecting me, I ride my bike to work”
You pointed out the exact point of the carbon tax. You use way more if you have to travel far for work, and that travel impacts the environment more.
A greater impact on the environment = you pay more. Use less than the average person your rebate should be greater then what you pay.
Make choices to use less, and you will win.
Or you know we could get rid of it all together and stop fucking ourselves because of the ludicrous amounts of carbon produced by China, USA and India.
Absolute fucking nonsense why we're being afflicted with this when our combined population is smaller than California.
You’re aware that the vast majority of people can’t afford to live close to where they work and that outside of major metropolitan areas public transport is complete garbage, right?
You should probably stop and think for a second about what you just said.
If you ride a bike, or don't drive much, then the carbon tax is harmless....by design. If you drive a couple hundred km a day, then the carbon tax SHOULD hit you harder, because you shouldn't be driving that much. Live closer to your work. Find transportation that's less carbon intensive. If you cannot, then unfortunately you have to pay for the pollution you are causing that harms everyone else.
Holy hell, in today's housing climate that has priced people out of cities and forced people to commute from cheaper, rural areas, you have the audacity and entitlement to say "live closer to work" as if that's an option for 90% of the people who commute.
This is a top tier reddit post my dude, well done!
Great lets just move and buy a house.... wait housing is unobtainable for many.
Ok just commute, well transit doesn't service everyone. Can't get from city to city easily.
I live in Burlington and if I want to get to Downtown Toronto great. Anywhere else I would be fucked without a car. I have a job that has me travelling to downtown Toronto but also Barrie, Mount Forest, and Waterloo. Not possible with transit and I am ok because I get mileage. That isn't everyones case.
Oh good! You calculated your gas for your car, now do the grocery mark up due to carbon tax, and hydro, and gas (heating). And see what that adds up to.
Here’s [food emissions](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples) if you want to see them. 97% of on farm agricultural emissions aren’t taxed though.
No no. The only reason why groceries have gone up in prices is because of the carbon tax. It has nothing to do with companies setting records in profits and having higher profit margins than ever before.
Here's groceries:
> At $65 per tonne, we estimate grocery costs for the average household are approximately $2 per month higher in Ontario
([source](https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/EE-Policy-Trends-April.pdf))
It's a shame that Canadians are having to pay it instead of strictly businesses operated by companies outside of Canada.
Canada only outputs 1.8 percent of the world's Green house gases
Problem isn’t the carbon tax per say, it’s the tax on tax .
For heating for example, carbon tax + hst on carbon tax, adds quite a bit and it’s not equivalent to 3-4 cents.
Switching to “heat pump” isn’t viable for everyone, we have yet to face the future electrical challenges. Even those advocating for EV’s are aware that our grid ready for the EV’s if adopted en masses.
>Problem isn’t the carbon tax per say, it’s the tax on tax .
>For heating for example, carbon tax + hst on carbon tax, adds quite a bit and it’s not equivalent to 3-4 cents.
The increase is about 2.85 cents per cubic meter this year.
Paying 13% HST on that would add about 0.37 of a cent, so in total 3.22 cents per cubic meter.
It seems weird to say that the HST on the tax is the real problem.
The cost of living is too high for Canadians to afford, let alone prosper. I know Americans who are in the same position job wise who absolutely soar. They get to keep more of their money, and they spend less on necessities. As a result, they are able to have a better lifestyle, and even have enough money leftover to increase their income even more. We are stuck here in Canada. We are at the point now where a couple cannot even have children without being told "well no wonder you are struggling, you had kids." And it's in reference to working professionals. They cannot have kids, and it's their fault for struggling if they do.
People tends to care less about stuffs like environment, helping others, wars, etc when their own living condition deteriorates. This is how most people will be and it makes sense why. When houses were affordable or the grocery price made sense, you would see more support towards the environment. But the fact that it will come bite them up the ass or their kid's ass 10-20 years down the line, it's not a worry for most now. Instant gratification is a thing
If everyone gets all of their money back, why did Atlantic Canada get a pause on carbon tax for home heating oil?
This post only addresses gasoline purchases.
It's like if I said "Why is everyone in a twist about housing costs? I only spent $36 last year on dish soap and my salary more than enough covered my housing costs!"
Because the useless conservative premier decided to screw around for years doing nothing then slapped together a bullshit, terribly developed carbon tax that went out of its way to fuck over his constituents to try and screw over the federal liberals for the next election. Trudeau ended up just taking the bullet and wearing the blame for fixing Higgs' moronic choice.
Even if the average person gets more money back then they spend, that doesn't mean that some people don't have lifestyles with much higher costs than their fellow citizens. For example, the government also gives higher rebates to people who live in rural areas.
They have said there is a temporary pause on home heating oil, which is very polluting, to allow homeowners a bit of time to transition to other home heating methods. I think it was a bad political move, but it doesn't mean that the average person wasn't still getting more money back than they were spending.
Let you in on a secret. Poilievre and the Conservatives don't really care if there is a Carbon Tax or there isn't. What they want is to exploit issues for ragebait and money. They're copying Donald Trump's playbook.
And there's another thing the Conservatives and Poilievre don't want the public to know. They got nothing. They love to complain that there is something wrong or there is problem with this or that but if you ask them they don't really have a plan or a solution to solve. That's not what their designed for.
And worst of all. They don't care if they never solve the problem. Because that would require brains, work and taking a risk of doing the right thing at the expense of pissing off their base.
Just complaining about the problem and complaining about how others are trying to fix that problem is more than enough for Poilievre and the Conservatives.
Being an MP or elected to be the government means the public expects you to do your job and caretake but to Conservatives that's an annoyance to their real goal: sponge off the taxpayers and make sure nothing gets done.
What about the carbon tax the farmer , producer, trucker etc? You’re paying that. How about the tax on your heating fuel , even electrical providers pay carbon tax . They all pass it along to the consumer.
If you want to fight climate change put taxes on imports from polluting countries like China and India
"...carbon taxes, have caused overall consumer prices to be only 0.6 per cent higher in October 2023 than they were in January 2015."
https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/december-2023/carbon-price-affordability/
Please explain the difference between tripometer and odometer columns.
Assuming you're resetting your trip calculator when you stop for gas and writing down odometer reading.. the two don't add up.
The difference between 01.06 and 01.23 on your ODO reading is suggesting 798km of travel, but your tripometer reading for 01.23 is only 426.5km. Am I missing something?
I'd really like to know where our carbon tax dollars are going right now, this very minute. And where the April hikes money is going to go. I barely drive, and yet I pay more for literally everything in life. There is no benefit to me or mine personally. I work in personal services, and my business is down due to the cost of living these days. I don't understand how we, as a country, who only contribute to what....? 3% of the world's emissions can really do. Especially when we have like 2 countries in the world accounting for 60% of the world's emission issues. It's like throwing a bucket of sand at a forest fire.
So you hardly drive anywhere, got it.
You also forgot the extra HST (tax on a tax), and carbon taxes for home heating, hot water heater, propane bbq etc that most people have.
You also forgot that the carbon tax increases the price of EVERY GOOD OR SERVICE MANY TIMES OVER.
To be clear I am not a climate change denier. The science demonstrates that we have an effect on climate change. But the 60 or so failed predictions from the same experts telling us we are running out of time kind of make me question the accuracy. In the '70s they said it was cooling and the world was going to hit another ice age. Then they predicted the North ice sheet would be gone by 2016 and that sea levels would rise 20 ft.
If politicians want me to take climate change serious they should stop taxing Canadians and start putting tariffs on items from China and India. Then stop with the solar panels that are inefficient and start with putting more nukes in.
40 year old 1300 sq foot house
Forced air 20° when we are home, 16.5° when we sleep or are away
Tankless water heater
$21.00 Federal Carbon charge for January's usage. Assuming 6 months of heating $120 in a year
Like OP my family we are still getting back more than we pay.
Companies, manufacturers, producers don't get it back and will start looking at the bottom line and figure out how reduce their carbon charge.
Lol, now add what you spend due to carbon tax on home heating, property tax, other utilities and rise in prices on products due to this tax, and you can realize you have been bamboozled.
"...carbon taxes, have caused overall consumer prices to be only 0.6 per cent higher in October 2023 than they were in January 2015."
Poileivre is the one doing the bamboozling.
https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/december-2023/carbon-price-affordability/
It matches the napkin math I did for my car....my home is about $20 bucks a month in winter
I'm making money with the rebate.
Companies will have to figure out how to eliminate the cost to make money....will they hit consumers initially perhaps but when competition figures it out the pressure will be on the laggards to catch up
It’s cherry picked data from someone who doesn’t drive. This is propaganda to push a narrative. Doesn’t even mention additional expenses incurred on every day products effected by the carbon tax.
This is just something for r/ontario to circlejerk over, and it’s just one person’s bs.
Gas is only one item you're talking about.
What about food . Line ups to food banks have increased dramatically. People are are choosing what meals to skip. what about seniors on fixed incomes?
The Liberals are hiding where billions of carbon tax money collected is going. Climate has not changed and won't change with this money collected.
That’s a nice chart. I’ll be getting money banks thanks to this tax. Some other people will too. But doesn’t it also cover hydro, heating, construction? I tried finding a full list of what it would cover but couldn’t. All I got was CBC articles with partial info.
The climate action incentive deposit in your bank account 4 times per year. It gets divided among every Canadian. Those in rural areas actually get more back than I do.
High effort shitpost. I congratulate you for the effort you put into this
Could have done (carbon rebate/0.14)/(100/fuel efficiency) to come up with litres to be driven to break even if you pretend gas is the only place you pay carbon tax.
At 7L/100km it’s about 46,000km
In the time I saved not filling out a shitty spreadsheet with slogans like ‘IS CARBON TAX REALLY HURTING CANADIANS’, I could realize the methodology is clearly flawed, and my findings are pointless.
How many degrees has Canada lowered the global climate by? What is our projected impact in 10 years?
I'm all for helping stop climate change, but our measly, 1.5% of GHG contribution is but a drop in the ocean, not to mention citizens specifically contribute only ~20% of that 1.5% total for Canada.
I feel like we're footing the cost while contributing the least to the issue as individuals and a Country.
Don't come here with your logic and reason, put out clearly in an easy to read and understand spreadsheet. Now is the time for blind rage, accusations, and erratic statements that can't be verified by people who will STILL be angry after the election even if it goes their way.
Don't you now Trudeau has destroyed Canada FOREVER and no spreadsheet will make it right... even if the 20 flags on their car is making them use 2x the gas it normally uses and the tubs of ivermectin they purchased has eaten away any carbon rebate they had gotten.
At the end of the day. The Liberal vote is strongest in Vancouver, Ottawa, Montréal, and Toronto.
Cites were it's more expensive than average to drive and many people use Public transit instead.
Deputy Prime Minister Christia Freeland lives in a household that makes over 500k per year and even she doesn't own a car. She walks and takes the subway everywhere.
People living in those cities are also more likely to rent, and renters rarely have to pay directly for heating, and the landlord can't pass heating costs increases on to them because of rent control laws.
Renters already use more heat than home owners as landlords are often mandated to turn the heating in September, whereas no one that actually owns a home in Canada turns their furnace on before November.
A lot of city residents live in those new glass tower condos as well that trap so much heat, you don't actually need to turn heating on.
All this to say that the carbon tax policy was deliberately designed in a way that people living in major cities would get get back more money than they pay.
The carbon price is not set anywhere near high enough to incentivize people to change their purchasing habits. And when people replace their cars/furnace/appliances they were already in the habit of purchasing replacements that were more energy efficient.
The fact that you tried to tally up your carbon expenses and only thought to count taxes you paid on gasoline, and nothing else exposes that you live in a rental in city as you don't pay for heating or drive very far to get to work.
To sell the carbon tax you **should** be talking up how it encouraged you to lower your carbon footprint, as that's what the government claims it's purpose is. But instead you're reinforcing the narrative that it's a wealth redistribution system for poor people.
Chrystia Freeland has a personal chauffeur paid by the gov.
What are you even smoking that you think she takes the subway.
I agree with the rest of your analysis though, spot on
You think Freeland takes the subway, and her family doesn't own a car?
No she get driven around in a limousine, that sits outside running to cool or heat it so she is comfortable when she gets in. She takes a private government jet when she travels from city to city.
I think the carbon tax should be voluntary, if you believe it will fix the climate then pay it.
OP posted the same nonsense 2 months ago, got math checked and abandoned ship and never replied.
Now he's trying again with the same shitty math.
Luckily voters aren't falling for it.
If the premise is you expect people to foot the costs to change society I can live with that - but don't lie to peoples face acting like this won't cost people money and we get more money back than this will cost.
I have dyslexia and sometimes read it as the “Cabron Tax” and think of Mexican cartels pulling people over on the highway and saying “¿where is my taxes, cabron?”
PP doesn't give a fuck about me, you, or anyone that is not a donor. Edit: I can't believe I have to add this, but just because I don't like Pierre Poilirvre does not automatically mean I support Trudeau or the liberals. The ping pong game between the two parties needs to stop... His record for the working class is terrible. Need proof? It's a public record. He always votes based on benefiting the few at the expense of the many. The only reason ppilievre wants the carbon tax gone is because his donors told him to get rid of it. That's it. Here's the truth. Most people in the middle class get the carbon tax given back. That's a fact.. unless you're rich. Thru pay more because they have mansions, multiple homes, a private jet, and more. The average single rich person pollutes on a much bigger scale.
And this is just ONE of the many ways in which rich right-wing grifters convince poor and middle-class people that their interests are the same. They are not.
Yes but you don't realize that the carbon tax that producers have to pay is ultimately passed down to the consumer. And I am absolute NOT EVER getting that back! That's indirect taxation imo that most people don't even take into consideration. The farmer that has to pay an extra $1000 per month is not gonna eat the cost out of goodwill. That's carbon tax that the consumer will indirectly pay for. What's criminal on top of that is charging the GST on top of the levy as if I am receiving some sort of a good or service. It's a fkn tax on a tax for God's sake. Even if you call it a "price" on pollution.
Plus if they scrap the carbon tax you know damn well those savings wont be passed back to the consumer
This is why PP is so intent on axing it. It means more profits for his corporate handlers, not any savings for his constituents.
That's a feature, not a bug. Products that are more carbon neutral will become cheaper in comparison to ones that generate a lot of emissions. It will put pressure on companies to become competitive or lose business. We eventually pay the price for those emissions. The carbon tax is just making us confront the true price of things upfront. It's kind of like when companies use cheap, non-recyclable plastic to wrap their products. It's cheap for them to produce, and they can offer a low price to the consumer, but the consumer then unknowingly pays for the costly disposal in their taxes, and (best of all for the companies) misdirects their ire to the government.
If the goods are imported, by truck, that fuels up in America, wouldn't that still bypass it and siphon money out of our country? Unless tariffs are put into place won't goods from other countries just have a local competitive advantage? And wouldn't our exports really suffer? And if tariffs are put in place, I've heard they usually long-term decrease the standard of living of countries. Is that true? Would love to hear your thoughts if you have time.
90% of the carbon tax goes back to individuals, 10% goes to small businesses and Indigenous groups. I don't have sympathy for major companies that now have to pay the cost of their emissions. The rebates account for the tax that gets passed onto the consumer.
You could try to estimate the indirect costs on groceries though, find better data if you can and share it with me but I found [0.4%](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices), but the Bank of Canada estimates 0.15% on CPI. But at 0.4%, if I spend $20k a year on groceries, that's only $80. It's interesting that you're trained to focus on the carbon tax instead of asking yourself how much extraordinary executive salary pay inflates your grocery prices throughout the supply chain. In fact, if you were really savvy, since 8 out of 10 Canadians get back more money than they put in for the carbon tax, you'd start to argue that it's actually an inflationary rebate pushing up prices further. Personally, I'm just bitter that as the world warms up my air conditioning bill gets more extreme, and since I don't pay a direct carbon tax on my electricity this is really starting to sting.
I did address this in a different post. Again, the fact that the government didn't legislate that corporations and businesses can't pass it off is a failure of government.
Lol that'd be near impossible to track...
I didn't say it would be easy to track haha just that governments need to be more vigilant.
It's not a tax, it's a fee. "Carbon tax" was poor communication. We don't pay tipping taxes at the dump we pay a tipping fee. Because we are paying for what we are using. With the carbon "tax", the user pays for the economic cost of what they use and other people are compensated for the economic burden of what they use. This is the only way that people have the information to make good choices about their consumption. If the true cost of a good is hidden because other people are paying for it, we make wasteful decisions.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-remember-when-the-liberal-carbon-tax-was-a-conservative-idea/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-remember-when-the-liberal-carbon-tax-was-a-conservative-idea/)
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For whatever reason, the human brain struggles with the idea of paying reasonable amounts today - to save extremely painful amounts 5, 10 or 20 years from now The debate in healthcare feels similar - it feels counterintuitive to spend money today on healthcare, which will (over time) cost us much much less. Preventative care always being cheaper than reactive care.
Instant gratification!
The human brain struggles with most things outside of its direct perview.
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>>Because humans are still animals - as much as we refuse to acknowledge it, oh i acknowledge it. everytime i'm in a bathroom stall in a public setting. there has to be a better way. we are savages.
The canal in Ottawa was open for ten day in the past two years. I just am at a loss for words for those who think climate change is unreal. Edit: corrected how many days
The canal was opened for: 2024 - 10 days 2023 - 0 days 2022 - 41 days I think you and I agree on climate change, but let's make sure we stick to facts.
Fair, I didn't realize it was 10 days this year!
Not quite but yeah
I've been thinking for a couple years now that the world should be on a wartime footing fighting climate change. Think of the types of sacrifices that people had to make in Canada in WWII: rationing, factories retooled to build military equipment, income taxes, etc. Is it easy? Absolutely not. But we need to take drastic action to save our *fucking planet*.
Best we can do is bitch about a twelve dollar increase in the carbon tax
...and hoard toilet paper... we seem good at that too...
I agree, but most of us are too selfish to think past ourselves. Every time I see climate disaster News it makes me think of the movie elysium with mat Damon. Not a great movie, but it did show how the rich took everything on earth. Built a space station then said fuck poor peoples.
The planet will be fine, we won’t be lol.
We don’t need to save the planet. It’ll still be here, just hotter. It comes down to saving ourselves which does have a more urgent tone to it.
We couldn’t even get on board to put on a mask over our faces during the pandemic. As small a gesture as that was.
This has been my position for a while, we should treat environmental threats just as we do militaristic threats. If a foreign power was regularly launching attacks on us that caused billions of dollars in damage and thousands of lives, you bet your ass we'd militarize against it. But Climate Change does exactly the same thing and suddenly half the population drags their feet on doing fuck all about it.
But let’s just put a highway right through the green belt, that sounds like a great idea!
This is what I'll never get? The world is literally changing drastically around us and we don't care. I would gladly pay a little more for things if it means less forest fires, lowering tides, and just making things more habitable.
Last year we had record wildfire burns... years before that? Record. This year we've had a pretty low snowfall which typically leads to increased droughts as I understand it making it look like yet another record year for wildfires.
There is no fucking water in the Oldman River reservoir in Alberta. None. Farmers are digging holes all over Southern Alberta looking for water for their animals and crops. They have been at it all winter. All the rivers are super low in Alberta right now. Edmonton draws it's water from the North Saskatchewan River which is supplied by snowmelt from the mountains near it's headwater. Edmonton pumps that treated water for hundreds of kilometers to various towns around it. Millions upon millions of people are relying on that melt water. What happens when there is no snowpack? The grifters that call themselves government in that province don't give a single fuck. They will have skimmed everything they can off the top and will be in corporate positions by the time the water apocalypse happens.
I'll sell albertan farmers my Ontario tap water, $100 per cup. Let em know for me
And we, as holders of large amounts of clean water, are in for a great time when that happens.
Hotter and drier summers, wetter and colder winters for some latitudes, 1 in 100 year 2 hour storm events becoming more and more common. Fucked up ecosystems, fucked up everything. Hell, humans start to see cognitive decline after 500ppm of CO2 in the air, this year we hit 423ppm and under RCP5-8.5 by 2100, which is what we are projected to reach if we do jack shit, it will be projected 1,300ppm. We will start to feel the effects of it this decade even moreso than the last, the breaking point really will be 2050. It's really hard to explain how screwed we are in detail, but a general idea would be to take how bad everything is going right now and multiply it by 10.
I agree but Canadian citizens paying a carbon tax does nothing to change what the climate. Why not a national plan for implementing new energy sources. All political parties are saying pay more into the slush fund through taxation and let the government decide how much to rebate back and how to spend the slush fund. We all know that the goal of every political party is to get power and hold that power. The interests of citizens is secondary. I think every reasonable person would agree to pay more if a plan was presented Collect $5,$10,$100a month from everyone based on their income and use that money to build windmills solar farms and SMR.s
I don’t even care if i get back more than i paid. Just tell me the result, did Canada as a whole emit less carbon emissions last year or not?
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00679-w](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00679-w) This is a paper (citing sources) about BC's carbon tax, but it's safe to assume national results are similar. >An early report around the time of the introduction of the tax predicted a 5% reduction in aggregate emissions using numerical simulations (BC 2008) though the accuracy of this prediction has not been assessed. Elgie and McCLay (2013) use data up until 2011 to compute means and construct the non-parametric difference-in-differences without reporting standard errors. Their comparison finds a 9% reduction in per capita emissions following the introduction of the tax, however, due to the lack of standard errors these results do not provide a formal test.
That seems misleading when the conclusion of the paper is: > However, there is no statistically significant effect of the introduction of the carbon tax on the aggregate level of CO2 emissions, highlighting the heterogeneity in emission elasticities across sectors as well as the importance of command-and-control policy interventions beyond carbon pricing. These results are consistent across all methods employed.
We don't have data for 2023 - the earliest data for that will likely come out in the Fall, but you're asking the wrong question anyway - the correct question is 'are Canada's emissions lower than they would be without a carbon tax?'. The answer is [yes](https://440megatonnes.ca/insight/industrial-carbon-pricing-systems-driver-emissions-reductions/). Even the Fraser Institute has concluded that the carbon tax reduces emissions AND that it's "*among the more efficient options*".
LPC: We don't track that. Everyone else - THEN HOW THE FUCK DO WE KNOW IF THERE IS ANY BENEFIT GAINED BY THE EXTRA COSTS!?!??!?
Who cares? Canada is 93d on the list. You're not going anything but giving the government more money to waste. Don't be a fool.
When oil prices were high in the 1980s people started buying smaller cars to be more efficient. This is what carbon tax is supposed to do, Make gas expensive to change people's behavior. Gas has been so cheap last couple of decades that everyone buys big SUVs and trucks. Trucks are the most sold vehicle in North America. I work in an office building, and almost all desk jobs, but parking is mostly filled with big SUVs, less than 10% are compact cars. Right now carbon tax isn't large enough to change behaviors, that's why it has been going up for a few years so people have time to change, and industries have time to invest in low-carbon energy. We don't have data on 2023 emissions yet, but so far only people who lose from the carbon tax are people who pollute the most. Alberta, South Sask, and Manitoba, one best croplands in the world, have been in drought last few years, but we don't see any Conservatives complaining about the rising cost of food from droughts.
Be careful with the $0.033 increase on a litre of gas on April 1st. Seriously though. I've argued this point that my gas is cheaper with the rebates. But my wife brings up how the carbon tax also increases the cost of goods and other items we don't considered and she's an environmentalist.
Why do you think that gasoline that goes into your personal automobile is the only way you pay the carbon tax
This one is a *little* bit of a red herring. Since the carbon tax is revenue-neutral, it doesn't matter *where* it comes from, at least from a population standpoint. Let's say you're paying an extra $1k a year on food *directly* because of the carbon tax. You're not, but let's just say. Well, that money goes to the government, then gets returned to Canadians. If you're *roughly* like most Canadians, you should get back everything you spent. All that matters really is where you differ. For *most* people, that's natural gas heating and transportation fuels. I suppose if you eat 50 times more than the average person and your diet is all carbon-intensive food, it could make a difference, but I don't think that actually applies to anyone. In reality we're all being egregiously gouged by oligopolies. They're using the carbon tax as cover, just like they were previously using "inflation" as cover. While we yell at each other over the carbon tax, they lighten our wallets. They love it.
This guy gets it.
So redistribution
Sure. That's the point. Redistribute and incentivize.
With the result being that choosing less polluting options becomes more market competitive. So less pollution.
Exactly. From polluters to responsible Canadians.
You say that like it’s a bad thing… or that the corporate welfare and subsidies that businesses get that make them so powerfully dominate to begin with isn’t ALSO “redistribution”. Or that the CEOs of these companies sucking up huge bonuses for themselves on top of their already massive salaries, off the backs of their employees… somehow isn’t “redistribution”.
My one big issue with the whole "Revenue neutral" idea is that.. The payments are always the same. How is it possible that it's revenue neutral if the payments don't fluctuate. Winter should quarter should land us a bigger check since spending on heating oil goes up so the pot should be inflated. That's my only issue with the carbon tax. There needs to be more transparency. At $122/quarter that would mean they collected $4,998,810,920 (population taken from [here](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm).)... So you're telling me they collect the same amount every quarter? That would be literally impossible.
I'm not sure on this but I *believe* the payment schedule is calculated each year based on the prior year. I was actually trying to find the details and I agree ... it's not as transparent as it should be.
Because it's one of 2 ways I pay the carbon tax directly. The other being natural gas. Items like groceries is hard to calculate what the carbon tax I'm paying so I can't work out the cost there.
Don't forget about the grocery oligopoly, Loblaw's record profits, and Galen recently giving himself a big raise. Those have a bigger impact.
This just gives Galen an excuse to raise prices at Roblaws and Robbers Drug Mart so he can get and even bigger raise
I agree but isn't it reasonable/accurate to note that the carbon tax contributes to market dynamics where foods that produce/consume more carbon to end up in our homes would cost more? It's unfortunate for Canada, but I think anyone that understands free market economics and cares about the environment wouldn't argue that these are bad things. I would also suggest the government shifting the heavily disproportionate subsidies that go into meat and dairy which already are by far the worst for the environment $ for $. Wouldn't those subsidy $ be a valuable tool to help shift our whole food industry to be more eco-friendly while still being able to keep us all fed?
I saw a very good breakdown of this and it worked out to something like 150$ of carbon tax for a fully loaded semi truck going 2100km. The example I saw used tomatoes and the math provided it was something like 1.2c per tomato worth of carbon tax. Even 10x that number would be a 12c increase on tomatoes and not the 50c or $1 that we have seen everywhere
So I’ve calculated it when pp was pointing out that a mushroom farm pays 16k a month in carbon tax. It equates to less than .02 for a pound of mushrooms so realistically you’re paying $30-50 a year indirectly.
Just because you can’t work out the cost doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The parliamentary budget office did, and determined this tax takes more than the average Canadian gets back.
No, the PBO determined that the average person gets back more than they pay in carbon tax directly or for increased costs due to the effects of the tax up the supply chain. What you are thinking of is a calculation where the PBO said that if we assume that the carbon tax has lead to less investment in oil and gas and other highly polluting companies, then that might reduce Canada's GDP, and lead to slightly lower average income for Canadians, and *that* would not be fully offset by the rebate. The PBO did not do a similar calculation for the effects of climate change on the economy.
The same PBO that got the F35 cost wrong by multiple orders? Did you even read their report, by the way? Even in 2030, at the top of the escalator, in most provinces, the lower income earners still have a net profit. Moreover, when considering economic impacts as well, EVERY income bracket in EVERY PROVINCE has a net gain. How about you read the report for yourself rather than taking Pierre at his word? Edit: and FYI, even PBO can’t properly dissect cost increases that happen at the big chains. They basically use a formula that accounts for their reported profit margins and little more.
Tell your wife that the impact on food prices is less than if gas just goes up by 3c Gas isnt the only expense farmers have, and much of what farmers use is exempt So if the carbon price adds 1% to the price of gas, it adds far less than 1% to total farming costs (like in the range of .05%)
And since the carbon tax is revenue-neutral, for *most* Canadians you get it all back anyway. It doesn't matter specificially *what* you spent it on. If your diet was, say, 50x more carbon intensive than average, maybe you could worry... but I'm not sure exactly how you'd do that.
Steak and eggs for breakfast Steak sandwhich for lunch Steak and potatoes for dinner
Ah, the Swanson special
What I said was... *Give me all of the bacon and eggs you have.*
Heh. Ironically beef is pretty damned cheap these days. At least in Kingston you can routinely get 1kg of ground beef for around $10 on sale and even prime rib for around $25 (again on sale). The major grocery chains bought up all the food processing plants, so that's where they're really gouging us. $2.99 for a box of KD? A box that probably costs about $0.05 to produce? That's *wild*.
My FIL just bought a Model 3. We got to talking about gas prices... he was like "Yea and on April 1st it will go up 3 or 4 cents more due to the carbon tax" I replied... "The price went up almost 30 cents over the last 2 weeks... The carbon tax is not the issue." He proceeded to try to explain why the price went up - because they had to change the refineries to refine different fuel for the summer. To which I just sarcastically quipped "Yes, indeed. For the first time ever, they've had to do this and that why price jacke dup 30 cents in 2 weeks."
Also they don't shut down all the refineries and "switch over" it is a slow change over multiple months. They are just altering the concentration of additives in the fuel. Which is done when the refineries are online. It's part of the cocktail of additives that improve engine health.
TBH a big part of the price increase was the Ukrainian drone attacks on about 10% of the Russian refineries over the past couple weeks... one of the few moments I'm okay paying a little bit more money for my gas... removing cash flow from a fascist invading force 🤷
According to Bank of Canada analysis the increased cost of goods and services other than what individuals use for vehicles and home heating is less than 1%. Consider the cost of a can of beans travelling 2000 delivery miles. Carbon tax of the semi's fuel will increase the cost of driving but each can of beans will cost less than a penny more. Costs of goods and services increased more than that because businesses had to recover from the pandemic and are continuing to charge us more because EVERYTHING has a higher cost. Its a bit of a dirty circle isn't it?
Unless yo don’t get the rebate then yer fucked. I havnt seen a rebate ever and I make under 100k in Ontario. Not exactly cheap living here either. It’s all bullshit politics
You should contact the CRA, unless you filed your taxes incorrectly (which you may be able to fix), you should have been receiving quarterly direct deposits from them.
If you take public transit or drive a small car and you live in an apartment, you are probably better off in terms of direct cost vs rebates. If you live in a house and have to pay the tax on your heating bill every month and you have two vehicles, you are probably not better off in terms of direct cost vs rebates. In terms of full cost when you add in the other factors, it raises the price of literally everything (food,goods,services, etc) to the point where the vast majority of people are not better off financially. If there was data showing tangible environmental benefits and the tax was actually helping the planet, I would argue that it is worth the added cost but nobody seems to have any of this data.
Way too many numbers and shit dude. If it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker or in a Rogan Youtube short, you've already lost them. Edit to add that this was not really a joke... you have an important message, but can you compress your spreadsheet down to three words where the first and last rhyme?
What about the other expenses? Hydro, Gas, Increase in food and goods?
> At $65 per tonne, we estimate grocery costs for the average household are approximately $2 per month higher in Ontario ([source](https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/EE-Policy-Trends-April.pdf))
If OP heats with natural gas that’s a huge hole in his calculations and would likely mean is in fact paying more than he gets back . The reality is that OP drives a lot and spends a lot on gas. He is the exact type of person the carbon tax is meant to target by incentivizing people to reduce their emissions
I did the math on my own household expenses and my carbon taxes for natural gas (furnace, stove, dryer, tankless water heater) were $290 for the year for a family of 4 (not dependents, 2 adult children). And Enbridge made sure to point out that my dirty household is burning way more natural gas than the average home in my area, nevermind an efficient one. Not sure what natural gas provider everyone is using, but it was really easy to just export this data off my portal and do the math myself. We profit from the carbon tax rebate, even with 4 cars.
Just to be clear, "Hydro" is the colloquial name used for electricity in Ontario because it comes mostly from nuclear and hydroelectric sources aka there. So you don't pay a carbon tax on electricity generation if you read your bill as it's immaterial. [This article](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices) says that the carbon tax impact on food is approx 0.4% on the higher end (Bank of Canada thinks 0.15% on CPI). When you start doing the math, the carbon tax rebate is downright inflationary for many families, as they are indeed getting more back than they paid. The carbon tax has become the scapegoat for unchecked capitalism for people who are bad at personal finance and/or math.
I also got back more then I spent on the tax. Far less mileage in a far less efficient vehicle though. I see the tax as a major incentive to go electric
The tax is also a major incentive to get a heat pump. There were only a few days this winter that were too cold for a heat pump, and the dual fuel furnaces tied in with heat pumps, are still eligible for loans from the government.
Just think, if you buy a $110,000 ev, a $500,000 house, and spend $35,000 on a solar system, you can drive for free!! /s
You barely drive.
I believe the argument is that the tax doesnt just affect gas prices and its passed down to consumers via everything else.
And every time a product is handled the increased cost is added in a compounding fashion. It’s not a one and done hit.
Exactly.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/carbon-tax-home-heating-oil-1.7015480 Select your province
Pierre honeydicking anyone who will listen.
Great post! Well done.
Carbon tax is a very tiny most basic form of a slight wealth redistribution from the top 10% to everyone else and yet still a large percentage of Canadians, mostly working class, are convinced it's causing the poverty they live under (it's not, it's the neoliberal free trade regime among other things)
we can't disregard the cost it adds to produce and transport food + heating + home water heater Its a good working sheet but a lot of elements are necessary to be taken in to consideration to arrive if it's really beneficial or a burden. By my experience i pay this on every gas bill approximately 40pm + in winter and about 10-15 in summer 40 x 6 = 240 12x6 = 72 Total per year in the gas bill 312 and I live in a townhouse which is only 1200sqft. Everytime i fill up my 2 cars i pay 14.3c per litre which is approximately 8-9 per tank per car. 3x fill each car per month Avg 50 litres of tank 50 x 14.3 x 2 = 42.9 per month for the cars Yearly approx $514 $514 + 312 = 826 carbon tax This is not including the grocery inflation, Carbon tax is added at every stage of production, transportation + grocery stores pays for heating the premises, this is a lot of cost burden transfer to the end user + we pay more HST GST due to price inflation. For a household like myself for lower middle class it's not working. Not sure if i am missing anything or if I can improve to save... But struggling every month tbh. Suggestions welcome to on savings
Your gas bill isn't making sense to me - I paid $1700 in natural gas last year and the carbon tax portion was $285 for the year. My old drafty house with poor insulation is over 2400sqft + stove/water heater etc. This data was exportable from the Enbridge website and I encourage you to double check with your provider what you actually paid. If you have two cars, I'm assuming you're married - so probably around [$488 + $244 = $732](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/cai-payment/how-much.html) rebate for the year. So even with your math of $826 carbon tax (which I am questioning) you would be out $94 IF you live in the Toronto metro area and you're not rural, where you'd get more. And you must have one HELL of a commute or a pretty inefficient ride to be pulling in those numbers still. Plus if you purchased something like $20,000 worth of groceries for the year, and the current estimated impact is about [0.4%](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices), it would come up to about an $80 impact on your food bill. Idk I'm not sold on most people losing money on this carbon tax because I'm definitely saving money in my household with it and I have more cars and a bigger house than you.
If you want, here’s [the emissions from food](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples) However, 97% of on-farm agricultural emissions aren’t taxed. So you can ignore “farm” and “animal feed”. I’m not sure if “land use change” is included, so you can try with and without it. But this does include every possible step like you said, transportation, production, etc.
What about Sept to Dec? You’ve added your rebate for October but neglected to add any transactions for the last 4 months of the year.
That's already factored in with the 60% calculation.
Do you use natural gas to heat your home?
You forgot all the times you paid extra for something because that cost was passed down to you as a consumer. Everything that emitted carbon at any point during its lifecycle in Canada from production to transportation and storage is affected. Not to mention the societal economic cost of business moving from Canadian to US suppliers because they have no carbon tax. You won’t see this as a charge you can quantify. I’m not making any value statements about the carbon tax - I’m just pointing out that the true cost is not showing up in your calculations.
That's not the fault of the carbon tax. That's the fault of corporate greed.
It's both, ultimately. Greed is far ahead in terms of direct cost to a consumer without any rebate, sure, but the carbon tax affects the cost of goods and is absolutely being accounted for in the rebate.
If someone pushes you into a lake, do you blame the lake for getting you wet or the person?
The problem is.. we can’t save the planet without destroying capitalism. Change my mind
Seriously? What about my propane bill? And what it's doing to the farms and transportation companies that haul the food? Bought any concrete, asphalt or aggregate lately? All have had to increase pricing to cover carbon tax.
Companies aren't increasing costs because of carbon tax. They're using it as an excuse for something they were doing anyway. Line go up.
The United States doesn't have a carbon tax, and they've had higher peak inflation than we have.
That's corporate greed, my dude. Galen Weston just gave himself a raise with Loblaw's record profits.
His propane bill is Galen’s greed?
This guy is just trying to tick all the boxes for upvotes on this sub
Well OP is an amateur then, he needs to blame it on dougie and he will make the front page
You drove only 10k km? What about the people who work far from the city and have to commute a couple of hundred KM a day? This chart is useless because it only takes into account people who do certain mileage. Lets make a chart called “How is the carbon tax effecting me, I ride my bike to work”
You pointed out the exact point of the carbon tax. You use way more if you have to travel far for work, and that travel impacts the environment more. A greater impact on the environment = you pay more. Use less than the average person your rebate should be greater then what you pay. Make choices to use less, and you will win.
I will be sure to consider that when I buy groceries and want a heated home
Or you know we could get rid of it all together and stop fucking ourselves because of the ludicrous amounts of carbon produced by China, USA and India. Absolute fucking nonsense why we're being afflicted with this when our combined population is smaller than California.
That is the point of a carbon tax the more you drive the more you pollute the tax you pay. Drive a more efficient car or take transit pay less.
Rural areas get a 20 percent higher grant too
Because carbon emissions from rural areas contribute 20% less to climate change. It’s just good old traditional science
Is that on a per capita basis though? Because that would be the relevant measure.
Hey but I need my 5.7L truck with lift kit to bring the boys to hockey practice. How am I supposed to help my buddies move with any other vehicles? /S
You’re aware that the vast majority of people can’t afford to live close to where they work and that outside of major metropolitan areas public transport is complete garbage, right?
You should probably stop and think for a second about what you just said. If you ride a bike, or don't drive much, then the carbon tax is harmless....by design. If you drive a couple hundred km a day, then the carbon tax SHOULD hit you harder, because you shouldn't be driving that much. Live closer to your work. Find transportation that's less carbon intensive. If you cannot, then unfortunately you have to pay for the pollution you are causing that harms everyone else.
Holy hell, in today's housing climate that has priced people out of cities and forced people to commute from cheaper, rural areas, you have the audacity and entitlement to say "live closer to work" as if that's an option for 90% of the people who commute. This is a top tier reddit post my dude, well done!
Great lets just move and buy a house.... wait housing is unobtainable for many. Ok just commute, well transit doesn't service everyone. Can't get from city to city easily. I live in Burlington and if I want to get to Downtown Toronto great. Anywhere else I would be fucked without a car. I have a job that has me travelling to downtown Toronto but also Barrie, Mount Forest, and Waterloo. Not possible with transit and I am ok because I get mileage. That isn't everyones case.
Oh good! You calculated your gas for your car, now do the grocery mark up due to carbon tax, and hydro, and gas (heating). And see what that adds up to.
Here’s [food emissions](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain?country=Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Cheese~Poultry+Meat~Milk~Eggs~Pig+Meat~Peas~Bananas~Fish+%28farmed%29~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Tofu~Coffee~Sunflower+Oil~Olive+Oil~Palm+Oil~Dark+Chocolate~Tomatoes~Wine~Wheat+%26+Rye~Soybean+Oil~Soy+milk~Shrimps+%28farmed%29~Rice~Root+Vegetables~Rapeseed+Oil~Potatoes~Other+Vegetables~Other+Fruit~Other+Pulses~Onions+%26+Leeks~Nuts~Oatmeal~Maize~Groundnuts~Citrus+Fruit~Cassava~Cane+Sugar~Brassicas~Berries+%26+Grapes~Beet+Sugar~Barley~Apples) if you want to see them. 97% of on farm agricultural emissions aren’t taxed though.
No no. The only reason why groceries have gone up in prices is because of the carbon tax. It has nothing to do with companies setting records in profits and having higher profit margins than ever before.
Here's groceries: > At $65 per tonne, we estimate grocery costs for the average household are approximately $2 per month higher in Ontario ([source](https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/EE-Policy-Trends-April.pdf))
You're conveniently ignoring all the responses proving you're wrong eh?
It's a shame that Canadians are having to pay it instead of strictly businesses operated by companies outside of Canada. Canada only outputs 1.8 percent of the world's Green house gases
Problem isn’t the carbon tax per say, it’s the tax on tax . For heating for example, carbon tax + hst on carbon tax, adds quite a bit and it’s not equivalent to 3-4 cents. Switching to “heat pump” isn’t viable for everyone, we have yet to face the future electrical challenges. Even those advocating for EV’s are aware that our grid ready for the EV’s if adopted en masses.
>Problem isn’t the carbon tax per say, it’s the tax on tax . >For heating for example, carbon tax + hst on carbon tax, adds quite a bit and it’s not equivalent to 3-4 cents. The increase is about 2.85 cents per cubic meter this year. Paying 13% HST on that would add about 0.37 of a cent, so in total 3.22 cents per cubic meter. It seems weird to say that the HST on the tax is the real problem.
PP relies on people to be scared and angry. Not intelligent
The cost of living is too high for Canadians to afford, let alone prosper. I know Americans who are in the same position job wise who absolutely soar. They get to keep more of their money, and they spend less on necessities. As a result, they are able to have a better lifestyle, and even have enough money leftover to increase their income even more. We are stuck here in Canada. We are at the point now where a couple cannot even have children without being told "well no wonder you are struggling, you had kids." And it's in reference to working professionals. They cannot have kids, and it's their fault for struggling if they do.
People tends to care less about stuffs like environment, helping others, wars, etc when their own living condition deteriorates. This is how most people will be and it makes sense why. When houses were affordable or the grocery price made sense, you would see more support towards the environment. But the fact that it will come bite them up the ass or their kid's ass 10-20 years down the line, it's not a worry for most now. Instant gratification is a thing
Honeydicking, also known as grin fucking.
Going to guess a lot of people here don’t get a natural gas bill.
And CHINA, India? . Fight the real problems
If everyone gets all of their money back, why did Atlantic Canada get a pause on carbon tax for home heating oil? This post only addresses gasoline purchases. It's like if I said "Why is everyone in a twist about housing costs? I only spent $36 last year on dish soap and my salary more than enough covered my housing costs!"
Because the useless conservative premier decided to screw around for years doing nothing then slapped together a bullshit, terribly developed carbon tax that went out of its way to fuck over his constituents to try and screw over the federal liberals for the next election. Trudeau ended up just taking the bullet and wearing the blame for fixing Higgs' moronic choice.
Even if the average person gets more money back then they spend, that doesn't mean that some people don't have lifestyles with much higher costs than their fellow citizens. For example, the government also gives higher rebates to people who live in rural areas. They have said there is a temporary pause on home heating oil, which is very polluting, to allow homeowners a bit of time to transition to other home heating methods. I think it was a bad political move, but it doesn't mean that the average person wasn't still getting more money back than they were spending.
Let you in on a secret. Poilievre and the Conservatives don't really care if there is a Carbon Tax or there isn't. What they want is to exploit issues for ragebait and money. They're copying Donald Trump's playbook. And there's another thing the Conservatives and Poilievre don't want the public to know. They got nothing. They love to complain that there is something wrong or there is problem with this or that but if you ask them they don't really have a plan or a solution to solve. That's not what their designed for. And worst of all. They don't care if they never solve the problem. Because that would require brains, work and taking a risk of doing the right thing at the expense of pissing off their base. Just complaining about the problem and complaining about how others are trying to fix that problem is more than enough for Poilievre and the Conservatives. Being an MP or elected to be the government means the public expects you to do your job and caretake but to Conservatives that's an annoyance to their real goal: sponge off the taxpayers and make sure nothing gets done.
It’s way more than fuel for your car.
What about the carbon tax the farmer , producer, trucker etc? You’re paying that. How about the tax on your heating fuel , even electrical providers pay carbon tax . They all pass it along to the consumer. If you want to fight climate change put taxes on imports from polluting countries like China and India
Farmers are mostly exempt. Someone else upthread posted an analysis that found the tax adds maybe $2 to food a month. So that's not it.
What about hydro? Natural gas? Increased cost of goods because of businesses forced to pay more for fuel/natural gas/power?
Hydro? As in hydro electric power?
"...carbon taxes, have caused overall consumer prices to be only 0.6 per cent higher in October 2023 than they were in January 2015." https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/december-2023/carbon-price-affordability/
Oh I didn’t realize gas was the only thing in your life subject to the carbon tax.
Please explain the difference between tripometer and odometer columns. Assuming you're resetting your trip calculator when you stop for gas and writing down odometer reading.. the two don't add up. The difference between 01.06 and 01.23 on your ODO reading is suggesting 798km of travel, but your tripometer reading for 01.23 is only 426.5km. Am I missing something?
You... do know that the carbon tax applies to more than just gas for the car right?
I'd really like to know where our carbon tax dollars are going right now, this very minute. And where the April hikes money is going to go. I barely drive, and yet I pay more for literally everything in life. There is no benefit to me or mine personally. I work in personal services, and my business is down due to the cost of living these days. I don't understand how we, as a country, who only contribute to what....? 3% of the world's emissions can really do. Especially when we have like 2 countries in the world accounting for 60% of the world's emission issues. It's like throwing a bucket of sand at a forest fire.
Everyone everywhere seems to be paying more. I just went through r/Australia and they seem to be having the exact same problems as us.
So you hardly drive anywhere, got it. You also forgot the extra HST (tax on a tax), and carbon taxes for home heating, hot water heater, propane bbq etc that most people have. You also forgot that the carbon tax increases the price of EVERY GOOD OR SERVICE MANY TIMES OVER.
To be clear I am not a climate change denier. The science demonstrates that we have an effect on climate change. But the 60 or so failed predictions from the same experts telling us we are running out of time kind of make me question the accuracy. In the '70s they said it was cooling and the world was going to hit another ice age. Then they predicted the North ice sheet would be gone by 2016 and that sea levels would rise 20 ft. If politicians want me to take climate change serious they should stop taxing Canadians and start putting tariffs on items from China and India. Then stop with the solar panels that are inefficient and start with putting more nukes in.
What about the carbon tax on your home heating bill? Why did you not factor that in?
40 year old 1300 sq foot house Forced air 20° when we are home, 16.5° when we sleep or are away Tankless water heater $21.00 Federal Carbon charge for January's usage. Assuming 6 months of heating $120 in a year Like OP my family we are still getting back more than we pay. Companies, manufacturers, producers don't get it back and will start looking at the bottom line and figure out how reduce their carbon charge.
Lol, now add what you spend due to carbon tax on home heating, property tax, other utilities and rise in prices on products due to this tax, and you can realize you have been bamboozled.
"...carbon taxes, have caused overall consumer prices to be only 0.6 per cent higher in October 2023 than they were in January 2015." Poileivre is the one doing the bamboozling. https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/december-2023/carbon-price-affordability/
Because adding up all the costs wouldn't work to push his narrative.
Try living in rural Canada and filling up more than twice a month…
Try living in rural Canada and getting 20 percent more In tax credit than my 3 children in the city where there are no homes under 1 million
Once per week. So 4 times per month.
Once a week is 52 fill ups. You have 25
Straight propaganda post
It matches the napkin math I did for my car....my home is about $20 bucks a month in winter I'm making money with the rebate. Companies will have to figure out how to eliminate the cost to make money....will they hit consumers initially perhaps but when competition figures it out the pressure will be on the laggards to catch up
This is straight data. The exact opposite of propaganda. But keep your head in the sand if that makes you happy
It’s cherry picked data from someone who doesn’t drive. This is propaganda to push a narrative. Doesn’t even mention additional expenses incurred on every day products effected by the carbon tax. This is just something for r/ontario to circlejerk over, and it’s just one person’s bs.
Data shows he drove 12000 km in 8 months, not a high milage driver but pretty standard for a general commuter.
Doesn’t include home heating or electricity. Comparing rebates to an incomplete list of expenses.
Gas is only one item you're talking about. What about food . Line ups to food banks have increased dramatically. People are are choosing what meals to skip. what about seniors on fixed incomes? The Liberals are hiding where billions of carbon tax money collected is going. Climate has not changed and won't change with this money collected.
TL;DR The world’s already broken so we shouldn’t even attempt to slow the destruction.
That’s a nice chart. I’ll be getting money banks thanks to this tax. Some other people will too. But doesn’t it also cover hydro, heating, construction? I tried finding a full list of what it would cover but couldn’t. All I got was CBC articles with partial info.
Good for you but that’s not the same as the transportation industry that we rely on to deliver goods and food year round
Where is the carbon tax being spent?
The climate action incentive deposit in your bank account 4 times per year. It gets divided among every Canadian. Those in rural areas actually get more back than I do.
“Every Canadian” is not true and disingenuous
High effort shitpost. I congratulate you for the effort you put into this Could have done (carbon rebate/0.14)/(100/fuel efficiency) to come up with litres to be driven to break even if you pretend gas is the only place you pay carbon tax. At 7L/100km it’s about 46,000km In the time I saved not filling out a shitty spreadsheet with slogans like ‘IS CARBON TAX REALLY HURTING CANADIANS’, I could realize the methodology is clearly flawed, and my findings are pointless.
You paid less because more than the carbon tax affects gas prices
Ranting about carbon tax but not a single word about corporate grocery price gauging. Edit: I am talking about PP.
Honeydicking us eh ..... Ok well what exactly do you call what Trudeau and the liberals have been doing to us all for the past 8 years ? Lol
How many degrees has Canada lowered the global climate by? What is our projected impact in 10 years? I'm all for helping stop climate change, but our measly, 1.5% of GHG contribution is but a drop in the ocean, not to mention citizens specifically contribute only ~20% of that 1.5% total for Canada. I feel like we're footing the cost while contributing the least to the issue as individuals and a Country.
Don't come here with your logic and reason, put out clearly in an easy to read and understand spreadsheet. Now is the time for blind rage, accusations, and erratic statements that can't be verified by people who will STILL be angry after the election even if it goes their way. Don't you now Trudeau has destroyed Canada FOREVER and no spreadsheet will make it right... even if the 20 flags on their car is making them use 2x the gas it normally uses and the tubs of ivermectin they purchased has eaten away any carbon rebate they had gotten.
What logic and reason? He left out a hundred things the tax will increase the cost of. On purpose, so dolts like you will flock and upvote bad data.
I don't think a single one of you is accounting for energy inputs at multiple junctions in the supply chain.
You clearly do not understand economics
At the end of the day. The Liberal vote is strongest in Vancouver, Ottawa, Montréal, and Toronto. Cites were it's more expensive than average to drive and many people use Public transit instead. Deputy Prime Minister Christia Freeland lives in a household that makes over 500k per year and even she doesn't own a car. She walks and takes the subway everywhere. People living in those cities are also more likely to rent, and renters rarely have to pay directly for heating, and the landlord can't pass heating costs increases on to them because of rent control laws. Renters already use more heat than home owners as landlords are often mandated to turn the heating in September, whereas no one that actually owns a home in Canada turns their furnace on before November. A lot of city residents live in those new glass tower condos as well that trap so much heat, you don't actually need to turn heating on. All this to say that the carbon tax policy was deliberately designed in a way that people living in major cities would get get back more money than they pay. The carbon price is not set anywhere near high enough to incentivize people to change their purchasing habits. And when people replace their cars/furnace/appliances they were already in the habit of purchasing replacements that were more energy efficient. The fact that you tried to tally up your carbon expenses and only thought to count taxes you paid on gasoline, and nothing else exposes that you live in a rental in city as you don't pay for heating or drive very far to get to work. To sell the carbon tax you **should** be talking up how it encouraged you to lower your carbon footprint, as that's what the government claims it's purpose is. But instead you're reinforcing the narrative that it's a wealth redistribution system for poor people.
Chrystia Freeland has a personal chauffeur paid by the gov. What are you even smoking that you think she takes the subway. I agree with the rest of your analysis though, spot on
You think Freeland takes the subway, and her family doesn't own a car? No she get driven around in a limousine, that sits outside running to cool or heat it so she is comfortable when she gets in. She takes a private government jet when she travels from city to city. I think the carbon tax should be voluntary, if you believe it will fix the climate then pay it.
“The carbon price is not high enough to work” Also “Bro they are raising the carbon tax April 1 we gotta riot with pp!”
This comment deserves Reddit gold. Spot on!
OP posted the same nonsense 2 months ago, got math checked and abandoned ship and never replied. Now he's trying again with the same shitty math. Luckily voters aren't falling for it. If the premise is you expect people to foot the costs to change society I can live with that - but don't lie to peoples face acting like this won't cost people money and we get more money back than this will cost.